Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 2/12/24: Kennedy Voters Reveal Motivations, Maddow Excuses Biden's Age, Trump Attacks NATO, Tucker Interviews Putin, Israel Bombs Rafah

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

Krystal and Saagar reveal clips from our latest focus group with RFK Jr. voters, MSNBC copes over Special Counsel rulings on Biden's age, Hillary admits Biden's age an issue, Trump says Russia can do whatever it wants to NATO countries, Trump praises Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce at the Superbowl, Krystal and Saagar react to Tucker interviewing Putin, and Bibi bombs Rafah in Gaza as Egypt threatens war.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed, we do. Lots of interesting things that are happening for us to comment on this morning. I don't know if you guys caught this. RFK Jr. with a big Super Bowl ad last night, and it kind of worked out perfect for this. RFK Jr. with a big Super Bowl ad last night and it kind of worked out perfect for us. I certainly did. Because our focus group results

from our RFK Jr. focus group are also in. So we can tell you how voters are thinking about his candidacy. Super excited about that. Also, you probably saw Biden dealt a legal victory, but a massive political blow by that special counsel who had been appointed to investigate his handling of classified documents, mishandling of classified documents. A lot to say

about that. And interestingly, Hillary Rodham Clinton weighing in with a hot take on that one that you may not expect. So we will react to that as well. Trump also making some very noteworthy comments on NATO that have caught a lot of people's attention. We'll talk about that separately. Also making some very noteworthy comments about Taylor Swift. We, of course, have to comment on that as well. Tucker's big interview with Putin is out. It was a lot. It was very interesting. It was sort of revealing. We'll show you some of the highlights, some of the parts that caught our attention and give you our reaction to all of that. And at the same time, while we were all watching the Super Bowl, Israel began their offensive on Rafah over the very weak protestations

of our own president and over the stronger protestations of the Egyptians and the Saudis. So we will show you the very latest there. They are also saying that they were actually able to rescue two hostages in what they consider to be a very successful mission. So that is what we've got for you this morning. Before we get into any of that, though, thank you so much to all of the premium subscribers for making this RFK Junior focus group happen. Yes, I think you guys are really going to like it. As we said, you guys are going to get full access to it. We'll have clips here, but later on this week, we'll drop the full episode for you. It won't drop until many days later for the general public and the general audience. So if you want to first look at that,

if you want to see why people are supporting RFK Jr. in their own words with a major search term bump form that happened last night over the Super Bowl, breakingpoints.com, and you can support our work there. But with that, let's go to the RFK Jr. group. Yeah, indeed. So I don't know how many of you guys watched the Super Bowl last night. Probably a good number.

I watched it. It was a fantastic game. But, of course, we're very highly attuned to all of the political things because those are the kind of political nerds that we are. RFK Jr. with a big $7 million, actually, his super PAC, ad buy with a throwback Kennedy ad. Let's take a listen to that. Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. Do you want a man for president who's seasoned through and through?

A man who's old enough to know and young enough to do? Well, it's up to you. It's up to you. It's strictly up to you. American Value 2024 is responsible for the content of this advertisement. So I think that this was, even though $7 million is a lot of money, obviously, I think this is probably money well spent because, Sagar, there are a whole lot of people who are disgusted with Joe Biden or think that he's way too old. 86%, I think, of voters think

he's too old to be president again. People also disgusted with Donald Trump, who is very likely to be a convicted felon by the time the election comes around, looking for some alternative. And it's like, hey, there's a guy with the last name Kennedy, might have heard of before, and he is also running. He is a viable alternative. It was a genius ad for several reasons. Number one, didn't tell us anything about him. You're not supposed to know anything about him. You're just supposed to know that his last name is Kennedy and that there's a vote independent, which is another option, which is the major reason that many people are backing him and why they would be interested in his candidacy. Second, as a student of those ads, one of my favorite lines from that song actually is, quote, old enough to know, young enough to do. Now, look, he may be

70 years old, but he's a lot younger, unfortunately, than all of the other people who are in the race, the 78-year-old Donald Trump, if he were to be elected, the 82-year-old Joe Biden, if he were to be reelected. So he's got the age at the very least comparatively on his side. The Kennedy ad too, and people are going to see this in our focus group, the ability to evoke the inspiration of that era, especially amongst people who watch their parents really fall like prey to the Kennedy magic is just, it is, I cannot describe how powerful and emotive that is for the younger, for the older voter, the median voter in this country, 55 years old with no college degree who can think and talk to their parents about what that time was like and about

some of the feelings that they can connect to it. So the nostalgia, the being younger, the fact that, you know, these are the type of ads that we learn about in our social studies classes. And to be able to connect it back to something like this in a modern age gave people a choice. I thought it was very, very powerful. I mean, the thing that we've said from the beginning with him is that the more vague he keeps his messaging, the better it is. And because he has a lot of, you know, very divisive stances, some of which we talked to the focus group about. Obviously, it's really interesting to hear their reaction to that. But the more that he is just like, you know, associated with the Kennedy brand as sort of a generic alternative to these two dudes that a majority of the country hate and

are disgusted by the fact that they only have these two choices, the better for him. I think probably, you know, the bigger obstacle, maybe the largest obstacle for RFK Jr. at this point is just the ballot access because the way our system is so rigged, it makes it so incredibly difficult to be on the ballot as a viable alternative, but as a bit of political theater and as a way to get his name in front of the country and get people Googling, like, who is this dude? What is this all about? I thought it was a very, very intelligent move. So we've been really curious about who are the RFK Jr. supporters? What do they look like? What are the RFK Jr. supporters? What do they look like? What are the different archetypes? And we got a lot of really, really interesting

data and insights from the focus group that we were able to do with James Johnson of JL Partners, and he's going to join us in the studio now. Just give us a moment to set up, and we'll get right to that. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie.

In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. I know a lot of cops,

and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

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Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. All right, guys. So we are lucky to have James Johnson of JL Partners here in the studio to tell us what he found noteworthy about the RFK Jr. focus group. Great to see you, sir. Good to see you, man. So tell us a little bit about who this group was and your initial impressions.

Seven people who said that they are going to vote RFK Jr. in November from the suburbs of Detroit. So key swing state, obviously, in Michigan. And they are people who, at the moment at least, are saying they're going with, you know, for the first time for a third party candidate in RFK Jr. Interesting. We have an initial sort of intro piece of why they feel like RFK Jr. has won their vote over. Let's take a listen to what they had to say. You've all got one thing in common, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Now, one by one, I want you to tell me about your story of where you ended up there. His announcement was phenomenal. I thought it was one of the best speeches I've heard in a long time. And I thought it addressed something real. I'm hungry for a change and I want leadership. I also saw the pitch for his campaign

opening, but I was looking at it more toward legacy and the views that I grew up with. So it was a little bit deeper for me that the Kennedy family would throw a candidate in there that would fulfill what the past Kennedys have and work for all people. Legacy and the name and for change and for the people, because I do not like, you know, our other potential candidates. RFK, I smiled when I heard his name. I can just hear my mom talk about and smile every time JFK came up. So I just knew they were a good, supportive, rounded family. He seems very confident in what he talks about. And he's listening to views from other people. I'm not for Biden. I'm definitely not for Trump.

But I'm just for the people just like RFK is for. To me, he's a strong person. And he's going to be willing to take on the establishment, to take on the military establishment and some of the entrenched political organizations that you know are running our country. He's proved himself in his legal profession standing up to Big Pharma and doing you know work on pollution environmental issues. He's got his legacy of his family and some of its tragic. So good for him for standing up and making a go at it. I think I was on the internet on Facebook or something,

and they put up that he was running, and I was like, dang, that would probably be really cool, you know, to come back, like the Bushes, you know, now it's the Kennedys, I think it would be a good idea for him to run at this time when everything is going down. He will probably help the economy a little bit more as far as, because it's basically going down, even though they're saying everything is going up,

it's going down. And I just think overall, the person will be, he'll be a good fit. I didn't actually know about him until a random episode of Joe Rogan, he was on it. And I actually heard about him several times before, but he's mentioned as like a crackpot or whatever. It's really hard to like lie for three hours straight

about yourself to put on a facade. And I look at Trump, I don't really see integrity there. I see manipulation. I look at Biden, I don't even see substance there. I see a guy who is enough of a figurehead that a party can use. And in RFK Jr., it just looks like, for the most part, that's a lot of integrity. That choice that we face in November, looking almost certain now that it's going to be Trump versus Biden going by the primaries, how does that choice make you feel in one word? Makes me feel uncomfortable. Me too, uncomfortable.

Nervous. I see recklessness with the two of them. I'm concerned about a fair election. Continued divisiveness, that's two words, makes it all feel pointless. There are some suggestions that the Trump team might have reached out to RFK Jr. about him being his potential vice presidential running mate. How does that make you feel? That would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm not a fan of Trump. I mean, he's a loose cannon. He's done some horrible things. But if he asked RFK to be his vice president, I would feel like RFK's copping out like, oh, I guess if I want to get in the White House is what I'm going to have to do. I thought that was a really good political move if Trump was going to do that, frankly. So if he could get him on board, then, you know, he would get his voting base increased substantially. He would sway me more to accepting Trump because I believe in the integrity that he has. Put your hand up if you think, if it would make you feel better about Trump if he became Trump's vice presidential nominee. So many interesting things there. One thing that I note in terms of how they explain

their support for RFK, there's sort of a few themes. There were a couple who touched on some kind of specific political issues. You had the one gentleman talking about like taking on the entrenched political establishment. But a lot of it was either, I like the Kennedy name, it gives me the warm fuzzies, or I really hate my other two options. And this one seems genuine. That was the other thing you heard a lot is like, he seems like he's authentic. He seems like he has integrity. And I don't feel like either of these other two dudes do. I think that's right. We know from our other breaking points focus groups and wider polling that people are really dissatisfied about this choice of Biden and Trump. Yes. And it seems like, you know, sort of they are yearning for something else and the nostalgia of the Kennedy name,

plus things that they really like about Robert F. Kennedy. I think that is important. Yes, Kennedy is playing a role, but the Robert F. is too. They quite like him. Some also said that they like the fact that he was bucking the trend a little bit with his family name, not just embodying it. And so, you know, they understand that nuance that he's trying to carry. So yes, they like it. And they like that he seems like a breath of fresh air. Integrity was a word that came up a lot. Honesty was a word that came up a lot. Yeah. It also was clear to me on that answer with the Trump VP. Like, they don't like Trump. They don't like Biden either. There really was a real independent streak. We were talking a bit before the break. Could you just give us a breakdown of who these people were politically

on the spectrum? They're all over the map as we understand if you could break it down. Yeah. So they were basically split into thirds between people who voted for Biden in 2020, Trump in 2020, and the third party in 2020. So this is a really quite diverse group. They were quite a pragmatic group as well. They were quite a pragmatic group as well. They didn't feel like diehard Democrats or diehard Republicans. You know, they were quite transactional about their vote. And I think that speaks to the fact that RFK Jr. can pull these voters from across the political spectrum because they're so fed up with the status quo. Yeah, it was really interesting. Speaking of that, you know, one thing that

struck me, you asked them a good bit about his vaccine stance and what they think about the vaccines, what they thought about the handling of COVID. And obviously, that's a very divisive stance that RFK has. It's a very divisive issue and has been in America. I was sort of struck by that pragmatism that you had people who had different views there, but they weren't like at each other's throats over it. Let's take a listen to how that part of the conversation went. RFK Jr. said Anthony Fauci and Bill Gates may have tried to profit from the COVID-19 vaccine. RFK Jr. has also made links between the COVID-19 vaccine and 5G, including that Fauci and Gates suppressed information about other COVID-19 curesures so the vaccine was the only viable option.

I think that RFK did his homework. All they did was follow the money. They were way too involved in the lab in China, and there's nothing more to prove. I mean, it's just, it doesn't, nothing adds up about it. That's, to me, a speculation. Just like they speculated that, you know, it started in China at this wet market, and, oh, it was intentional. And I'm like, how do they know that?

What's your personal views of those vaccines? Were they a net benefit? Were they a net problem? I was against them. It was such a push on something that was not tested, and it put a lot of people in danger. I was really against vaccinations until my mother screamed at me that I could not even come to her home unless I was vaccinated because she's older. People with pre-existing conditions, I think it's important to have the vaccinations available. I think it's individual.

A big corporation can't say, you're the vaccinator, you don't work for us anymore. I think totally wrong, totally wrong. Well, I've had family members die from COVID. So in the early days, I was definitely pro-vaccination, but I also think it was a personal choice for people. As time has gone on, we're hearing about side effects, more research has been done. Now I feel more comfortable because I know we have treatments that can be used. So you don't just go to the hospital and get on a ventilator and don't come home anymore. I took one dose and I had a very, very strong negative reaction and didn't take the second one.

And then my wife was pregnant at the time. And I couldn't in good faith imagine her taking it at the same time. Like it was, it was rough. My father died in care after getting COVID. What they did is they induced coma, put him on a ventilator, gave him medications. He died of organ failure. Later that year, his sister, my tia Millie, exact same way. With Trump and with Biden, something like the treatment during that time period, all the protocols, they're both culpable for how all of that was handled. They would both rather it be dismissed and ignored.

And he's the guy who's not. That's a focus, is to address that stuff. Are politicians telling the truth about COVID? Well, I don't think Trump was informed. I don't think Biden's being honest. And I think Fauci misled everybody. Fauci is a politician. He's also has special interests, personal interests, and different things going on with the vaccine,

with the lab in China, supposedly. But I liked him. You know, initially, I thought, you know, he meant well until you start finding out more information about what's going on. You have gained notoriety for your skepticism about vaccines. And over the summer in an interview, you said, quote, there's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective. Do you still believe that? I never said that. So stop me. We have the clip. Please play the clip.

Play the whole clip. You've talked about that the media slanders you by calling you an anti-vaxxer. And you've said that you're not anti-vaccine. You're pro-safe vaccine. Difficult question. Can you name any vaccines that you think are good? I think some of the live virus vaccines are probably averting more problems than they're causing. There's no vaccine that is safe and effective. So you did say it. Do you still

believe it? Well, here's what I would say. First of all, I'm not anti-vaccine. How is that statement not anti-vaccine? Well, I can say right now there's no medicine for cancer that's safe and effective. It doesn't mean I'm out against all medicines. I've been fighting 40 years to get mercury out of fish. Nobody calls me anti-fish. What I want is vaccines that are proven safe. And what I meant, which was a bad use of words, and as none of the vaccines that are proven safety. And what I meant by that, which was a bad use of words, and as none of the vaccines that are currently on the mandated schedule for children, the 72 vaccines, have ever been tested

in a pre-licensing safety study. How do we feel he came across there? He was defending his position. What do we think? I think he should say what he really felt on that. Because I think all of us understand any medication. You just want it to be safe. You don't know how it's going to react with you as an individual, looking at the science of it.

But he did look a little nervous in trying to clean it up. He seemed a little uneasy. He didn't say that. He said, I might have used the wrong words. I'd rather his approach of over-caution than reckless abandon. If there was another global pandemic, you know, a real problematic new virus, same issues we talked about are on the table again, vaccines, lockdowns. Put your hand up if you think RFK's union would be the best person to lead the country in that situation.

Yeah, he's going to. OK. If there's a situation that, like previously, where they need to get the vaccine out there, I would hope that he wouldn't hold it up too much. He has to weigh that testing element and the safety element up, because if people are dying, it's a lot of pressure. I'm sure he'll weigh the pros and cons of You know how many people it would benefit and wouldn't actually hold up something that would benefit more people than it hurt But he would pay attention

I also think that he wouldn't have like put all these businesses make them close these mom-and-pops They could have stayed in business. They could have had safety measures in place Rather than just across the board Make them close. So much about that that's interesting. First of all, it seems for one, maybe two of them, this is a relatively motivating issue. For most of them, it didn't seem like. I'm curious about your thoughts on that. But for people who are just listening to this and weren't able to actually see the clip, when you're playing to them that CNN clip and the comments from RFK on the Lex Ruman podcast, the faces were very pained, very concerned. They were not enjoying that exchange. And so I found that interesting as well, especially since a lot of the focus group

participants seemed like it was less about his specific stances on the issues. They may not even be aware that he's been sort of like leading vanguard of the anti-vax movement for decades at this point. There was more of just like Kennedy nostalgia and I want something different that did raise the question in my mind that if more of this was played, if there was more sort of like oppositional ads against him, etc., that you may actually move some of these people off of him if they had more awareness of what his positions were. What do you think of that? Yeah, three things came across from that for me. The first is that I think certainly there is a bit of a, it's not their most important issue in terms of, you know, they're not necessarily going to turn away from RFK Jr. because of it. But I do think

we need to remember that these are people who RFK Jr. already has. These are sort of his 10% or so in the polls at the moment. If he wants to grow that base, then that could be a problem, even though these guys are pretty much okay with it. I think the second point is that the thing they didn't like about the clip was not so much the substance, but something we always see in these focus groups, which was this sense that he was being a bit of a classic politician. He was dodging the answer. Exactly. And that is exactly why they like RFK Jr. because they don't think he's like that. So if they see clips like that. So if I was, you know, the Biden or Trump campaign, I'd be compiling clips of him looking like a politician rather than, you know, the populist sort of, you know, sort of favourite that they currently see him as. The third thing, and I think this is important, I think this is what these focus groups let us see,

is that you hear a lot about how RFK Jr. supporters are, you know, they're crazy, they're cranky, they're conspiracy theorists. These people's views on the vaccine, people listening and viewing might not necessarily agree with them all, but they were reasoned from personal experience, positions to take. And I just think that is that reminder. They were talking about like Bill Gates and Michael Chips and stuff like that. They're saying, listen, I think everybody should have a choice. You know, people who say, look, net benefit, you know, I was very for it in the beginning, especially I lost loved ones because of COVID. That jumped down at me as well, because that was

one of my questions going into the focus group was how much are these like people who have a diehard commitment to this issue or another issue that RFK has championed and how much of are they just you know people who are looking for an alternative to two really shitty choices at this point and by and large I think it's the latter the latter jumped out at me too James give us a taste of some of the we're going to keep debuting clips and all these other things what were some other moments that really jumped out to you that were really noteworthy that our audience can look for and pick up on? I think the big one, and on that subject of what are the deal-breaker issues, is RFK Jr.'s position on Israel. And they broadly knew that he was very pro-Israel. And for a lot of them, that did not coincide with their views. They were more of the view that perhaps the Israeli response had been a

little bit too disproportionate, that they felt that America shouldn't be involved in funding Israel or indeed Ukraine. So that was an interesting example of where, you know, views rubbed up against there. The interesting thing there was, though, they would rather RFK Jr. just let his views be known and say, agree with me if you want to, disagree with me if you don't, because rather than, you know, him tryudge a position on on on his actual views so that's the lesson for rfk junior on this you are running as an insurgent you are running as the anti-politician make sure that you continue to continue to be that you saw him trying to get that across in that super bowl ad and i think if we'd have you know the people who went and focus group that so super bowl ad they could have done it from our focus group because the messages they were looking for were exactly the same. Leaning in on the brand and leaning in on independence. Someone new in the field rather than the old

politicians. Brand, nostalgia. It's not political. It's more of a rejection of the existing choice. Vote independent being very strong. My last question for you, James, which may be a difficult one to answer, but I'm just curious as a pollster what your thoughts on this are. There's a lot of debate about who RFK, quote unquote, takes more votes from, right? Some of his issues code more right wing on vaccines, on Ukraine, on quote unquote cancel culture. And early on, his favorability was higher with Republicans than it was with Democrats. I think that continues to be the case. However, he's a Kennedy. And when you actually look at the polling that comes out, it kind of seems like a wash which candidate he

helps or hurts the most. And it kind of varies poll to poll. So do you have a sense after talking to these individuals, whether Biden or Trump should be more concerned about an RFK Jr. candidacy? I think it's both of them. Our most recent national poll showed that it was exactly the same proportion coming from both Trump and Biden. And when you look at the voters he can grow into, it's also both. Who would I, you know, if you really had to push me,

who would I say would be most concerned? I would say Biden. And that's just because he's got slightly lower approval ratings than Donald Trump. And weaker supporters, like weaker support. Trump people freaking love the guy. Biden people are like, he's fine, I guess. I think that's it.

And he's the disenchantment candidate, RFK Jr. And therefore, the candidate who people are most disenchanted by has the most to lose. That's a really smart point. It's about negative polarization for a lot of Biden support. So that can be split very much with RFK. Anyway, James, you did a fantastic job, as always. We really appreciate you, JLP partners and all this for doing this with us. Yeah, absolutely. Disenchantment candidate. I think that's, I like that phrase. I'm going to steal that one. Great to see you, James. Thank you. Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids,

promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of

fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad.

Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast.

We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player,

Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote

drug ban is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Okay, so as you guys all saw, thanks to Crystal, she broke this all down for you. We had an

extraordinary report on Thursday afternoon when the special counsel, the Department of Justice, came out with a report that President Biden cannot face trial for his willful negligence on classified document storage because he is too old and infirm and no jury would convict a man who had forgotten when his own son had died. Well, President Biden, it appears, was very ticked off by that response. And he gave his first press conference in quite some time to try and allay concerns about his age. And it went well. It was interesting. Let's take a listen. Thank you. And I'll take some questions. President Biden, something the special counsel said in his report is that one of the reasons you were not charged is because in his description, you are a well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory. I'm well-meaning and I'm an elderly man and I know what the hell I'm doing. I've been president and I put this country back on its feet. I don't need his recommendation. How bad is your memory and can you continue as president?

My memory is so bad, I let you speak. Do you know your memory has gotten worse, Mr. President? My memory is fine. Take a look at what I've done since I've become president. None of you thought I could pass any of the things I got passed. How'd that happen? You know, I guess I just forgot what was going on. For months when you were asked about your age, you would respond with the words, watch me. Many American people have been watching,

and they have expressed concerns about your age. That is your judgment. That is your judgment. That is not the judgment of the press. Initially, the president of Mexico, Ossisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him. I convinced him to open the gate.

He convinced him to open the gate. And the person he's talking about there, Crystal, the president of Mexico, Sisi, he means the president of Egypt. So in a press conference to allay concerns about his age, he confused the president of Mexico and of Egypt, which, you know, maybe in a one-off situation, you can forgive it. But in a scenario like this, where he, the special counsel himself says he literally forgot when his own son died, that he was appeared to be confused, that he appeared not to have a well, big grasp of what was going on. That's simply extraordinary. And, you know, these are basic facts, like they're trying to go after, and we'll show people in a bit, attacks on the special counsel. He either

forgot or he didn't forget whenever his son died. Like it's a very basic thing. And look, I know this sounds awful and it's mean, but he's the one in trying to ask us to entrust him with four or five years more in office. I'm sorry. You know, these concerns just simply have to be voiced or we're all going to feel like we're taking crazy pills. ABC News Ipsos has a new poll out. Eighty six percent of Americans surveyed think President Joe Biden is too old to serve another term. Eighty six percent. Perhaps the problem isn't with the special counsel. Right. Perhaps 86 percent of Americans are not insane and delusional. They can see right what is right in front of their faces. And Sagar, you're exactly right.

Listen, we misspeak sometimes. It doesn't mean necessarily you have dementia. But when you look at the pattern, we're talking about just in the last couple of weeks, this man has cited two different foreign leaders that have been long dead in stories that supposedly just happened. Mitterrand, who died in the 90s, and Helmut Kohl, who died some six, seven years ago. OK, it wasn't just that he forgot, you know, within several years when his son passed. He also couldn't say when he was even vice president of the United States. There were some other details there that got a little bit less attention, which to me are just as significant, which is he couldn't remember which side of an issue a key ally was on. He couldn't explain the details of debates around Afghanistan, something that he, you know, was once incredibly well versed in. You know, I almost feel like I

don't even have to say these things because obviously 86 percent of American people already see it in front of their eyes. In terms of the political choice of this press conference, of course, it ends up in complete disaster because of the mix up of the Mexican and Egyptian president. He had, you know, incredibly pissed off, cranky old man energy energy I think it probably would have been wiser if he was up to actually sitting for the Super Bowl interview rather than in this reactionary way coming out and trying to give a press conference to prove you're not senile which is you know not a great position to take it you could see the press was really out for blood they were gunning for him they went all in if he was able to competently handle himself during the Super Bowl interview,

that would probably have been a better approach. But there's a reason why he and his team opted not to do that. Either he or his team or both have zero confidence that he would actually be able to handle that task. So you just look at this and you're like, what the hell are we doing here? It's complete insanity. And then I just want to say on the substance of the special counsel report, you know, I think it's entirely fair for Democrats to say Trump's mishandling of classified documents was more egregious. There was more clear, appears to be more clear, willful intent in terms of moving documents around and hiding them and all of all of that. And the level of classification may have been higher. I think all of that is incredibly fair. But I also think it is quite

apparent that the standard that Biden is being held to of, well, he's a senile old man. What are you going to do? Can't charge him. And the standard that anyone else in the government with this level of mishandling of classified documents would be held to are two totally different things. And so frankly, I think it's outrageous that these people in power get a pass for things that other ordinary workers within the government or ordinary service members would not be allowed to get away with. Look at the discord guy. The guy, yeah, he was an idiot. All right. He leaked stuff on discord.

He's gonna go to jail for the rest of his life. He's probably gonna die in prison. All right. And he didn't even, you know, think of literally any with anybody else. I mean, during the Hillary case, I covered a couple of guys. There was a guy with a nuclear submarine and he accidentally leaked a photo or whatever. Same thing. He was thrown up in jail.

This was the Trump campaign. He's talking about it all the time. If you read the report, as you said, Biden's main defense is, oh, it's my staff's fault. It's like it wasn't your staff's fault, man. The report lays out very, very clearly that you willfully told biographers, just as Trump did, quote, that's probably classified, but whatever. I mean, we don't have to get into it because the real main takeaway is not about the documents. It's that you are so old, you could not remember basic facts about your life, presented defense, and the Department of Justice has concluded that you are so old, you could not remember basic facts about your life, presented defense, and the Department of Justice has concluded that you cannot stand trial. And yet he wants to run

the country. And so MSNBC, what is their cope? What they could possibly come up with? Well, they've certainly come up with a new narrative. Let's take a listen. Now that we have this closed and final report, Herr looks like, the Trump holdover prosecutor here, looks like having gotten the thing that helps you get the most facts possible, a timely interview with a very busy and very legally protected figure, the president of the United States,

and having gotten the answers that helped him reach the conclusion that there was no crime, he then started to cherry pick the interview for his spin on basically what he perceives to be, Mr. Herr's opinion, derogatory information. I think Lawrence hit it on the head, and it bears repeating that it is standard ops to say I don't recall that the former president in other cases recently has said it. And many, if you want to get into the age thing, because this is, let's call it what

it is. This is ageism snuck into a report clearing the person of any wrongdoing. If you want to get into the ageism, young people are told all the time by their lawyers, hey, you're way better off leaning into I don't recall than possibly misstating something to a federal officer or under oath in this case. Is it the fact of his age is not something you can rebut? You can't be, you can't tack to,

if someone says you're too far left, you can tack to the center. There's no, the man is 80 years old. He rides a bike. He is the age he is. And so it's a very useful political attack for that reason. Let's bring it up. Along with the legal conclusion comes this flood of characterizations,

factual misstatements, pejorative comments about the president that are inconsistent with DOJ policy and norms. And that, as you see, over the last 48 hours have been widely criticized by legal experts. This is not what prosecutors do. It is shoddy work product. It's shoddy work product. I mean, did I not live through a whole work cycle of these people can do no wrong and they're heroes

and anyone who questions them was above the, no one is above the law. How many times do we have that drum to into us? Now they're heroes and anyone who questions them was above the, no one is above the law. How many times do we have that drum doing to us? Now they're attacking him. Oh, apparently because the man can ride a bike. Listen, I've seen a lot of 80 year olds on a bike. They're on freaking retirement, okay? They're not asking us to be run for reelection,

for access to the nuclear codes, whether they forget something or not does not have world altering consequences. Like you, I feel nuts having to even articulate this because the vast majority of people agree with me, but apparently I do. You know, we're living in an area where they call it ageism. That's not ageism. It is a basic acknowledgement of reality. You could, you know, sling insults and all that if you want. But, you know, the way the jujitsu these people are trying to use to make themselves okay with it,

it's just crazy. Just admit the truth. Well, just say you hate Trump. So you don't care anymore. Well, I mean, the layers of cope are just sort of entertaining to me. I was interested to see what would happen here. And I think they just realized, like, we got no choice but to circle the wagons at this point because it's too late to do anything else. So there was a moment right when the report dropped.

And then when Biden gave that presser where it was like, oh, are they going to actually they can actually try to do something here? Are they going to actually try to be honest about, you know, the state of the president and whether or not he has a chance at beating Donald Trump and whether this is actually the best candidate for the Democratic Party to put forward? But nope. And said they decided to go in the total opposite direction and completely circle the wagons. And the reason why the cope is so amusing to me is because on the one hand, it's ageism and how dare you question his age, blah, blah, blah. On the other hand, they're going to great lengths to find Trump misspeaking, which he's been doing a lot lately, too. I mean, it is true.

He is also an old man. But so it's like, OK, so are they both senile? Is it okay to criticize this one's age, but not that one's age? Is Joe Biden actually totally fine? Or is he, you know, is Trump having the same type of mental lapses? And so, you know, we're just supposed to say,

well, I guess we have no choice but to elect some senile president or another. It's pretty incredible what's going on right now. But I mean, we did see this before soccer with Dianne Feinstein. And yeah, I was much less important as one single senator in a state that is going to be Democratic, whether it was her or someone else. And the lengths that Pelosi in particular was willing to go to to cover up the extent of her decline for years and years and years, all the way up until the very end where this lady is casting votes just before, while she should be on her deathbed and literally dying,

what was it, that day or the next day. It was astonishing that they were willing to go to those lengths and deny reality that was right in front of the faces of the American people. So it shouldn't be a surprise that they would be willing to sink to those steps with this president as well. One of the reasons I went so hard on the paint on that and on McConnell as well is because I can tell there's a standard being set, right? They're all protecting each other. And it's like Feinstein at a certain point, she had that. One of the reasons to go as hard there is because she was genuinely on the verge of death. Like she came back at the risk of her own legacy. The people around her were all propping her up. McConnell is the same way. The man has frozen twice on camera and we're all just supposed to like move past that, right? Oh,

I guess it's cool. You know, he's the same age as the president, by the way. And same here with Biden. Just look at him. Literally look at him. I mean, did you see how long it takes for him to open a single page? Again, I'm sorry that this sounds mean. It's not personal. It's about the fact that he wants to run the country. He's the one who's confusing the president of Mexico with Egypt in the middle of a literal international crisis. And if people want to see the cope also that people are coming up with, let's put this up there. Just take a look at some of these. They say, just Joe Scarborough, MSNBC. He couldn't

indict Biden legally, so he tried to indict Biden politically. Oh, really? Because actually, the entire thing was about how he could have indicted him legally, but that no jury would convict him. Matt Iglesias, quote, this is fucking bullshit. You appoint a Republican special counsel to investigate. He investigates, and the investigation does not reveal a crime. So instead of saying, all good, he goes off and does partisan political hits. Another, oh, y'all are so funny dunking on an 81-year-old's poor memory like you don't use a password manager. Lose your phone anywhere from six to 30 times a day and dig the pizza box out of the garbage to check bake time. And then my personal favorite contrarian take, today's report

dramatically lowers expectations of Biden's abilities, lowering the bar for what he needs to do is succeed in coming appearances. All of these are completely crazy. I mean, how much lower can the bar even be? What are we talking about here? You know, in terms of the American- Love for our presidents to have a super low bar. 86% Inspiration. 86% say he's too old. 86%. Now, let me say this. That doesn't mean a lot of people aren't going to vote for him. A lot of people are probably still going to vote for him. A lot of people will say, I hate Trump enough that I'm willing to take the risk. I think that's nuts.

But hey, you do what you want. My point, though, is just that on the age question itself, think about the standard we are setting America from all the way at the top where Chuck Schumer, who is 76, is the spring chicken in Senate leadership. It's totally crazy. Even Nancy Pelosi, the shadow leader of the Democratic Party, 81. Mitch McConnell, freezing twice. Trump, Biden, everybody. I mean, all of these people are basically, I mean, in some cases, they're older than grandparents of people who can vote today. That's just something where we need to really internalize what that standard,

as you said, about the actual bearer for the president should be. And that's how you have institutional collapse, degradation. And things are going to happen if Biden gets reelected, which had not happened since Franklin Roosevelt was reelected for a fourth term, where he could basically not stop drooling out of the left side of his mouth. And they rolled him all the way up to the mic just to make sure they could go him over. And by the way, we've passed a new constitutional amendment to say that can never happen again in terms of just having a popular president just continue to get reelected over and over again. Well, the cope from Jonathan Shade and his has been next level is that, well,

Reagan was seen now, so it's fine. Reagan was senile in his second term. So if Biden's senile in his second term, eh, what are you going to do? Just have the aides take over because we're all voting for the presidential aides. No, we're voting for this individual person to be the leader of the country, supposedly the most powerful person on the planet, commander in chief. It's hard for me to wrap my head around how we got here. It really, truly is. There was another poll that I think is maybe the most devastating poll I have seen for Joe Biden yet. The 86% saying he's too old, that's really bad. But NBC News asked voters how the Biden and Trump administrations had matched up with their expectations. Only 14% said Biden was better than expected. 42%

said worse than expected. Trump, it's almost reversed. 40% actually said that he was better than expected. And 29% said worse than expected. And the numbers with independents are even more lopsided. So the reason this is devastating is because, you know, perhaps memories have faded of what the Trump era was like, et cetera, et cetera. You know, it used to really be an advantage to be the incumbent president, but right now it's actually better. I think memory fades of how terrible you were while you were in office. And so the fact that you have so many people saying, you know what, Trump actually wasn't so bad. It was not as bad as I expected. And Biden is way worse than I expect. I think that is incredibly devastating in terms of their political positioning heading into that next election. And, you know, in this way, Chris

Hayes and that little MSNBC clip that we played where Rachel Maddow is like, well, he's not too old because he can ride a bike. We're not electing him to ride a freaking bicycle. By the way, we watched him fall off of that bike before, too. But the thing that Chris Hayes said about like there's nothing you can do to rebut this is true. It's true. And not just because his age is what it is, but because his capabilities are what they are. He is not going to be able to sit for the interview and knock it out of the park, give the press conference and knock it out of the park. When he says, you know, are you too old?

Just watch me. Well, we are. They have seen you. And that's exactly the problem. And by the way, you're doing everything you can do. Hide yourself from the American people. And for good reason, we understand why your staff and why the people around you are trying to protect you from being exposed to any camera, because even though that is a bad option, it is the best move that they have on the table to try to hide the actual state of your condition here. So it really is an astonishing situation that we're facing at the moment. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I felt so reading that I was stunned. I thought maybe for once something will happen. Anybody, Gavin, you know, anyone that they can drag in there. They're trying to set up Kamala. But

at this point, it's clear they're like they're going to do the same thing that the Republicans did after the Mar-a-Lago raid. They're circling the wagons. This is it, guys. Like, don't delude yourself. Unless he's dead, they're not going to drag him out. It just is what it is. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family

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Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Ad free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-stud on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill.

NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Let's move on to Hillary. I was honestly kind of surprised by this, although I guess every once in a while, you know, broken clock is right twice a day and all of that.

Hillary Clinton weighing on and says, actually, Joe Biden's age, it is a legitimate issue. Here's what she had to say. Or should he embrace his, you know, eight decades on earth and the great wisdom he's gained through all of this? I mean, do you have- All of the above. All of the above. I mean, you know, I talk to people in the White House all the time and, you know, they know it's an issue. But as I like to say, look, it's a legitimate issue. It's a legitimate issue for Trump, who's only three years younger, right? So it's an issue. Once you say that, then

you have to also talk about what's at stake in the election. And I'm for Joe Biden for re-election on the merits. It's a legitimate issue on the merits. I'm for Joe Biden. Of course, she tries to deflect, you know, onto Trump. Like, what are we doing? She made, how many attacks did she make against Trump and how many implications, you know, the same thing she fell for all these like Trump health conspiracy theories. We have a glaring actual conspiracy theory here, like right and not even a conspiracy theory, a glaring fact like right in front of all of our faces. But I like I said before in our previous block, this is the strategy. They are going to circle the wagons. They are running this man until the end unless he literally dies.

And I don't, I honestly, I don't know how they can morally come to terms with that. I was talking previously, Crystal, about the FDR fourth term. The people around him knew he was going to die. They knew he was going to die. And in many ways, they actually were very similar in their arrogance with the way they handled Truman, where they selected Truman. Truman only got to meet FDR three times before he assumed office, 83 days into the presidency. They'd never told him about the Manhattan Project. We had an entire war in Europe going on, Hitler's suicide and all this other stuff. He was not prepared for it at all. The people around him, Harry Hopkins and other aides, they were running

the country. They literally were running the country. Nobody, maybe if you read the New York Times at that time, you might have known Harry Hopkins' name. You don't know, you know, the Secret Service agent who's running the guy around and the people who are really running the country. We basically had an actual like military coup for 83 days in this country and nobody knew about it. I mean, I think that's what we're signing up for, something like this. And no one is being honest to us about this. They're asking for four years. And then with Kamala too, we all better get real comfortable with the idea of Kamala as president. If you're going to pull that lever for Biden, you got to really think about that because people

didn't think about that at the time in 1944. Most of the people, many of the troops who were serving in World War II, they're like, who the hell is Harry Truman? FDR had been president for 12 years. They barely even remembered, you know, Hoover at at that time. That that's the level of insanity that we haven't lived, you know, through 76 years or something like that, that they're, they're trying to foist on us. You know, the thing with the Hillary comments, um, that's interesting to me is I believe that interview was recorded before the special counsel report came out because it appears to be part of that same interview that we covered last week where she made her comments about Tucker and the, you know, puppy dog or whatever the hell she said about that situation. And so I wonder if after the report with the circling of the wagons,

if she would have said the same thing, because I do think it's important because, you know, part of why those comments from Hillary got as much traction as they did is because there was a sense of like, oh, maybe the power brokers behind the scenes in the Democratic Party are trying to make a move to take out Biden, whatever, whatever. I mean, first of all, you need to know that the scenes that is really capable of just pushing him out and inserting in their favorite candidate, whether that's Kamala or Gavin or Pete or whoever that would would be. So I actually think before the report came out, it was probably more acceptable to just vaguely acknowledge like, yeah, he just legitimate issue. But you know, obviously on the merits, I'm for Joe Biden, et cetera, et cetera. Now there is a heightened sensitivity where I think it will be more radioactive within these

sort of like mainstream Democratic establishment and their media organs to suggest such a thing. That's kind of my read into that. But the other thing that I'll say about this is, I mean, Hillary is younger than Biden, but she's obviously older as well. She's old too. The thing that always blows my mind is Bill Clinton, who obviously is president in the 90s, is younger than Joe Biden, which blows my mind. But, you know, counter to the point of ageism, if you talk to older folks, like they're aware of their own aging. They're aware of their own limitations. They're aware of the fact that it would be, you know, incredibly onerous and difficult and, you know, potentially beyond their capability to be president at this later stage in their life.

And you also look at it like you're why would you want to do that? You could be on a beach enjoying your family and living out your golden years and with, you know, some sort of a legacy that, you know, I personally wouldn't be proud of, but you probably would be proud of. Instead, you know, you're you're Dian of, but you probably would be proud of. Instead, you know, you're you're Dianne Feinstein. This is your life. This is it. You only have one of them. And then, you know, you couple that with the incredible damage. If you know, if you really believe, as I do, that Trump is an existential threat to the country and that I don't want to see him back in the White House and all of those things, think of the incredible risk that you're taking with the country, just the level of arrogance. And it is astonishing the level of risk they're willing to take with their party, the country, the world is truly something to behold. I can't run my head around it. Yeah. To bolster your point, I remember, I won't give away his

name, but a very, very famous, a world famous person. And I had dinner with him in like 2019. He's 78 years old. He was at the time, which is exactly how old Biden was whenever he took the oath of office. And he looked at me and he was like, look, I'm 78 years old. The idea that I could be president is bat shit crazy. And this man today is much more, much more put together than Joe Biden was. And he had the wherewithal to know that about himself. He's like, I've accomplished a lot. People know my name. You know, I've done a lot of good things. I'm just going to retire and I'm going to have, you know, I have good times, my golden years, my wife, my grandchildren. That's what most people in this position would do.

Biden, you know, in many respects, too, it's not like this is a call of service thing because it's about narcissists. He's been running for president since 1988. Like he's desperate to do this. He finally, the stars aligned for him to get in there. There's a huge portion of this too, where I don't know if you noticed whenever that reporter was said to him, uh, you know, it's the, the American people feel as if you're too old to be president. He was like, that is not, that is your judgment.

That is not the judgment of the press. I'm not sure what he meant exactly by that, but I think what he meant is that is not the judgment of the people, but that's not true. That is the overwhelming judgment of the people. But again, you see characteristics that are typical of the elderly, ornery, old, you know, agitated, not wanting to grapple with reality, very difficult, you know, egomaniac, very, what, sensitive about having authority challenge, feeling as if losing a grasp on things around you, not secure. And these were all characteristics that he already had before he was old. Everything just, you know, what is the whole thing about being old? It just exacerbates who you were. You become even more so what you already are. Nothing wrong with that. It probably happens to everybody, but we see it all

on display. You can see it. Yeah. I mean, your patience just runs thin. Right. Your ability to control or temper or whatever. This is, again, not a judgment. I mean, when I'm 80, I'm not going to have a use for these bullshits. I'm going to tell you what I think, too. But, you know, it shows. It really shows. Like, it really shows. Branko Marcetic pointed out, and I thought

this was a good point, that this really puts into context the David Ignatius column in particular, but there were a few others at that time, maybe about a year ago, that was sort of like gently encouraging Joe Biden to step aside. And one of the other layers of cope that we've seen is this like, well, if he was really that infirm and that addled, there are a million reporters in this town who would love to report it. And so we know all about it. And I think that that's really silly because look at how long they hid Dianne Feinstein's condition. The reporters in this town know that if they want any prayer of access to not just Biden, but anyone in this White House, anyone in this administration, they've got to toe the line. And that is one line that it would be very difficult for them to cross and maintain any

sort of access, et cetera. They know that. But also, it's not like there weren't some signs and inklings in the press like that David Ignatius column indicating that, you know, there's some issues here and preserve your legacy. Step aside that gentle suggestion. Obviously, it wasn't taken and we are where we are. And I agree with you, Sagar. Anyone who is deluding themselves to think there's some sort of backroom conspiracy going on to replace Joe Biden and push him out. And then they finally realize that this isn't going to go well for them. I would not get your hopes up because I think this is just, this is what it is. They've circled the wagons. They've decided this is their guy,

come what may. They don't really care about the consequences. And I guess we're the ones who all have to live with it. God help us. Okay. let's move on to Donald Trump also making some interesting eyebrow-raising comments, which have set off a firestorm here in Washington and on the newspaper columnists of America. Donald Trump weighing in on an alleged conversation, I'm going to say alleged, with a European leader of NATO asking to Trump, allegedly, whether Trump would defend him. And he said, no, I would not defend you if you don't pay your bills. In fact, I would tell Russia, do whatever the hell they want. Let's take a listen to what he said. The presidents of a big country stood up, said, well, sir, if we don't pay and we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us? I said, you didn't pay your delinquent. He said, yes, let's say that happened. No, I would not protect you.

In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay. Crystal, this has set off some of the most deranged discourse that I've personally seen since 2016, whenever he said something similar. At one point, the front page of the Financial Times, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, and there's one other, I think the Guardian, the Big Five, I guess, as you could say, all had the exact same headline, which was like Trump to abandon allies, encourage Russians to attack. Now, first of all, that's not what he said. He didn't say abandon allies. He said if you don't pay your bills the minimum 2% threshold, then I would encourage Russia to do whatever the hell they want. That's not the same thing as

saying that you're abandoning the NATO treaty. Second, and this is obviously something I feel very strongly about, about Europeans who are not pulling their weight, I have the official NATO numbers right here in front of me. The majority of the NATO alliance, even after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, including the great powers from Germany and France, including Germany and France and Italy, some of the biggest economies in the world do not spend the minimum 2% on the NATO guideline. Now they can do what they want, but remember that it's supposed to be a mutually beneficial pack that is happening here. So anyway, with all of that, I'm curious for what you think. Yeah. So I have a few things to say about this. I mean, first of all, first of all, as you said,

like the conversation probably didn't happen. Yeah. It's probably not real. It also obviously didn't happen. Okay. So that's number one. Number two, I mean, listen, it is a crazy thing to say, to be like, hey, Russia, go ahead and invade whoever the hell you want. Like, I don't support that. I think that's an outrageous thing to say. I think it's part of why, like, you know, having him as commander in chief is once again is a terrifying prospect as he is incredibly impulsive and all over the map. And he was not the peacenik that his supporters try to claim that he was. So there's like I don't think the comments were good. Now, I'm someone I'm not a big NATO person, you know, and I certainly don't support the expansion of NATO. So all the freak out about the NATO alliance and the sanctity of it. And oh, my God, he is going to go after NATO, et cetera, et cetera. I find that part a little bit silly,

not only because I'm not a NATO person, but because he also didn't really do that. Exactly. He was president. Yes. And this is one thing that, you know, I think you have to consider his words, but I think you also have to consider what his actual policy was as president. and his seeming, you know, often voiced sympathy and affection for Putin and did not consider the fact that his actions were actually in the totally opposite direction. He was very hawkish towards Russia, did not in fact give them what they want, did in fact like bolster Ukraine and ship weapons to them in ways that even Obama was not willing to do. So I just think that the dialogue becomes very unhinged when you only take those comments and project them into policy and don't also look at the actual policies

that he pursued. That's so obvious and true, right? To anybody who is a genuine observer of this. I honestly wish we'd seen more of that guy whenever he was president. Trump expanded NATO. Trump is the one who put freaking North Macedonia into the U.S. nuclear umbrella. Do people even know North Macedonia is a country? Did you know that you're signed up for nuclear war? That if they get attacked, anyone want to riddle me that about why exactly that makes sense or Montenegro? Again, people may know from a Bond movie that their most extent, they're going to know anything about freaking Montenegro.

Also, now we're all signed up to die for Finland and Sweden, which is great, obviously, countries that have previously been at war with Russia. Awesome. Now, let's think, too, about the actual substance where everyone's like, he's going to abandon NATO. Trump shipped weapons to Ukraine. Trump was one of the most incompetent commanders in chief of our lifetime in actually executing what he wanted. He wanted to withdraw from Syria. Who just died?

Crystal troops doing what exactly? Right. Oh, the ones who were in Syria. Trump said he was going to pull us out of Afghanistan. That didn't happen. Signed a peace deal. He tried to do it allegedly or whatever at the end. Never happened. Biden is the one who ended up actually pulling through with it. Trump was the one who told us that he was going to force NATO to pay their fair share. None of that happened. And in fact, most of their defense spending remained static until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And then even the measly Baltic countries are the only ones who are paying up and they barely mean anything in absolute terms of military power. It's like I can go on and on forever in terms of like what he actually did. And but that's part of why it is so infuriating because I'm like, I wish he would be more like this. If he were the president, if he did this, I would support him

even more. I'd be like, absolutely. Congratulations. Please make them actually pay their fair share. But that's not what happens. It's like NATO at this point is a religion. And then that's what I've really come to understand. Ukraine and NATO allegiance is a literal religion of the columnists and the foreign policy elite in this country. They think it's like 1976 or whatever, and the big bad Soviet Union is on the horizon and all this complete nonsense. I mean, even here in Ukraine, Ukraine is not in NATO. Ukraine borders NATO. That's different. It's not the same thing. They treat it as an attack on NATO. It's like, well, then what does that mean? Every country that borders NATO is now also in NATO. There's no limiting principle to any of this. So it's one of those where the freak out does not match the action. And then even then,

consider this, majority of people at this point are against more funding to Ukraine. How can you try and run this like NATO scam again, electorally after the majority of people see through your BS blob talking points? So that's it. Finally, then we have to get to Nikki Haley, who of course is seizing on this, you know, she's running on NATO, I guess. She's going after Trump for saying that he would quote unquote abandon NATO, even though that's not what he said. Here's what she had to say. NATO has been a success story for the last 75 years. But what bothers me about this is don't take the side of a thug who kills his opponents. Don't take the side of someone who has gone in and invaded a country and

half a million people have died or been wounded because of Putin. Don't take the side of someone who continues to lie. I dealt with Russia every day. The last thing we ever want to do is side with Russia. What we always need to remember is America needs to have friends. After September 10th, we needed a lot of friends. We can never get into the point where we don't need friends. So, you know, it's like, look at the way that she talks about it. It's like a religion.

It's like friendship. Friendship is supposed to be mutually beneficial. Not one person taking something out of your pocket for 75 years straight. I don't know. I just don't get it. Like the way that they talk, you know, freak or whatever about this. And I also just genuinely think this is a popular position amongst the American people. If you frame it the way I did around, you know, it's like, listen, if you don't pay, then what exactly? You're not fulfilling your

obligations that you all mutually agreed to over a decade ago. And then especially post-Ukraine, I don't know how they can think like being pro-NATO is a popular position outside of like the D.C. electorate. Yeah. I mean, again, listen, I don't want to say like I thought his comments were great because encouraging Russia to like invade wherever the hell they want is insane. Don't support it. That's just like imperialism. Also, with regard to NATO, you know, I don't think I do share that same position because if you're calling for Europeans to increase funding of NATO, what you're really looking at is pushing increasing even more funding to Ukraine. It's not really.

While we decrease our funding. Right, but it's not really calling for like, you know, cutting back NATO or, you know, curtailing it or even moving forward with the war in Ukraine. And that's the other thing is like, you know, he made some comments about the Ukraine war. He doesn't really talk about these things anymore. His position is very unclear.

And it was very all over the map from the beginning. You know, sometimes he'd be more hawkish in what he said than Joe Biden. Then when he realized there was a political lane for him to be, you know, calling for a negotiated solution, then he was, oh, well, make a deal on day one. Who the hell knows what this guy is going to do when he's actually in office? That's the real truth is the things that he says, the things that he does, the things that he wants to do versus the things he's actually capable of doing are two totally different things. But, you know, at this point to have a total panic freak out over some comments related to NATO when he wasn't able to deliver on any of that or push forward any of that agenda

last time around, I just think, you know, the freak out is not justified. Absolutely. I mean, actually, Michael Tracy went back and pulled all these predictions made by David Frum in July of 2016 of what would happen with NATO. Not a single one came true. He's like, NATO will be abandoned. Trump will pull us out of, not one, like expansion, increase of funding, more NATO friendly policy, consistently allowing the NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg to basically roll him.

And Stoltenberg would smile at Trump and be like, yeah, absolutely. Just keep giving us a little bit more money. And Trump would be like, OK, sure. You know, the NATO secretary general told me he was going to do it. He's like he was so easily to manipulate and to influence. And honestly, we don't talk enough about that. You know, and Trump supporters and them, too, they don't they don't really grapple with that,le with any of that. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets.

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I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st

and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this

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MMA fighter, Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter. And it brings a face to it. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Let's move on. We just had to throw this in for fun because of the Super Bowl. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. Trump, in the most Trumpian way possible, has now taken credit for Taylor Swift's more recent financial success. She says, I signed and was responsible for the Music Modernization Act for Taylor Swift and all other musical artists.

Joe Biden do and do anything for Taylor and never will. There's no way she could endorse crooked Joe Biden, the worst and most corrupt president in the history of our country, and be disloyal to the man who made her so much money. Besides that, I like her boyfriend, Travis, even though he may be a liberal, capital L, and probably can't stand. So, you know, one thing you can always say about Trump is that he is smarter than many of his online supporters. He's like, yeah, Taylor's super popular. I'm not going to attack her. I'm going to take credit for her success. And now if she does move against me, you know, I can roll my eyes or whatever.

But he understands the popularity of what he's dealing with, especially, you know, in the whole America's couple thing in light of what happened last night at the Super Bowl. So I actually thought it was smart. Yeah. I know people are waiting for him to weigh in with his own like Taylor Swift, deep state conspiracy, but I never thought that was going to come because he is intelligent enough to know that he loves, I mean, he loves celebrity. This is not a man who does not care for celebrity. This man freaking loves celebrity. And so it does not surprise me at all that he put out something that was just basically, like, supportive of both Taylor and Travis. And it also comes, Sagar, remember we covered last Taylor, NATO, Soros, Bud Light, Pfizer conspiracy theory. They're going to vote for him.

So he's got a much better grasp of like, you know, normie instinct of America. And so does this like really move the needle in either direction? No, not really. But I just think it once again just demonstrates that he has good political instincts and that's why he was president of the United States and may well be president of the United States again. Exactly right. You know, and of course, the amount of earned media that he's getting, you know, from this, people are like, people are posting it everywhere. Like, look, Trump is taking credit for Taylor and all of that. I just thought it was a smart play. Same thing with Travis Kelsey. I mean, look, I'm not a big Travis

Kelsey fan. And I'll tell you why. For one reason, I cannot stand the way that man dresses. I was all in for Brock. Brock wears a suit to the game. Travis wears some glittery streetwear monstrosity, which won't even be in fashion a year from now. But again, he's not dumb. He understands that the Kelsey brothers are like a national brand. They have one of the most popular podcasts. Why would you want to alienate? And they're like, you know, cast yourself on the side of one of the most popular football players. Not even a football player at this point.

I mean, he's in stratospheric celebrity level status. The two of them together, it's like one of the most powerful brands in America today, whether you like it or not. And so Trump is the same thing. He's like, I'm going to be on their side. I'm not going to be quote unquote antagonistic. I'm going to try and throw this thing out there

about the Music Modernization Act and maybe hope that she doesn't endorse Biden. Even though, look, she's probably going to endorse Biden. She endorsed him last time around. So that's why part of the reason why everyone's like, it's a psyop. I'm like, guys, she already did it, though. It would be a psyop if she never endorsed anybody. But she already endorsed him. It wouldn't be a psyop anyway.

Most of Hollywood is liberal. Or just liberal. Like she has some standard issue, normal- ass politics, and she barely talks about politics. So what did you see? I didn't really look online. Did you see much conservative commentary online or right wing commentary about the fact that the Chiefs won? Because I know the whole theory. The theory was the game's going to be rigged and the Chiefs are going to win. And then Travis is going to propose to Taylor and then Taylor is going to endorse Joe Biden. And I did see some. Yeah. Would you? And all of that. Well,

there weren't many like really super controversial calls. I look, our our our technical director, Colvin, was explaining it to me. So I am not a football expert. Basically, there's like a lot of upset about the overtime rules and it previously used to be sudden death and it's not sudden death and the Chiefs were able to win based on that. And so obviously,

Chiefs fans are happy about it. 49ers fans are. But that wasn't changed. Like, I agree with you. It wasn't changed like in the heat of the moment because like, oh, we need to give the Chiefs

an edge here. But I saw a couple 49ers guys be like, this is WWE now. It's not the NFL anymore. I don't know if you can watch it. I mean, look, again, I only watched the first half. I didn't watch the rest of it because I went to bed and I'm an old man. But I woke up and I looked at the highlights. It's not the NFL anymore. I don't know how many people watch it. I mean, look, again, I only watched the first half.

I didn't watch the rest of it because I went to bed and I'm an old man. But I woke up and I looked at the highlights. It was a great game. Yeah, it looked fun. It looked like, you know,

things were down to the wire up until the last minute. 49ers had a very, very real chance of winning the game. So no, I don't think it was rigged. Do I think that, you know, that Kelsey and Swift and all of them

are going to capitalize on this? Yeah, but like, not for political reasons. I think they just want to make money. Capitalism. That's the conspiracy. Capitalism. You think those dumbass, glitzy custom clothes pay for themselves? He needs to learn from Taylor. She's a classy

lady. She actually dresses well. There's a whole thing about Taylor dresses him. I wish that she dressed him. She has much better style sense than this walking teenager, but this is a whole other diatribe. Kyle was telling me that he had like a different style before she came on. I don't have him. I don't think so. That's what I was told is that he used to dress and like look like present himself differently. And then with Taylor, he's like adopted a

different, a different look. I don't think that's necessarily true. He's had like trashy style for quite a long time. I mean, let's be, look at the man's cars and the way that he behaves. Okay. Like he's not exactly the paragon of taste. So again, I wish he would learn from Taylor, uh, in terms of his taste, which is probably not a take that you'll hear from many conservatives. Well, I was cheering for the chiefs, um, both because of, uh, Travis and Cal and, uh, Taylor, Taylor, whatever the hell their names are, but mostly because of Colvin. Oh, yeah, right. Because he's so happy. Because Colvin is so happy.

And he cares so much. And I don't really care that much. So I was just cheering for him to get his win. Second time in a row. Apparently they're a dynasty now is what people are saying. I'm just sad for him. But I love that kid. You know, he's 24. I can't imagine.

24 years old. He's got a whole career ahead of him. Yeah, but to win it at 24 would have been. I mean, he was Mr. Irrelevant, last pick of the draft, first Mr. Irrelevant, I think, to ever, you know, be in the, to be in a Super Bowl. I mean, he's, you know, he's engaged. He's like, he's Mr. America. He's like Americana. That's what it is. So I'm sad that he lost. The thing that was entertaining to me was, I mean, if you just looked on its face, like Kansas City versus San Francisco, you would think the conservatives would all be cheering for Kansas City.

But the fact that Taylor Swift made them decide to get behind San Francisco, that in and of itself was an entertaining aspect of this for me. The team is not the town. The team is not the town. I guess that's what they say. Okay, I'm sure you guys have been wanting to hear Krystal and I's thoughts about the Tucker Putin interview. We're going to try something a little bit different here, just a little bit of an experiment.

The first eight minutes or so of this is going to be free in terms of our reaction. And if you want to become a premium subscriber, you can listen to our full analysis at breakingpoints.com. But let's go ahead and begin with the interview. Putin, you know, really just embracing the full caricature of himself. Tucker asked him a simple question. Why didn't you invade Ukraine? It took us 30 minutes to learn that answer. We went all the way him a simple question. Why didn't you invade Ukraine? It took us 30 minutes to learn that answer. We went all the way back a thousand years. We learned about the great Yaroslav the Wise and every accord written since the year 900. Here's what he had to say. February 22nd, 2022, you addressed your country in a nationwide address when the conflict in Ukraine started.

And you said that you were acting because you had come to the conclusion that the United States, through NATO, might initiate a, quote, surprise attack on our country. And to American ears, that sounds paranoid. Tell us why you believe the United States might strike Russia out of the blue. How did you conclude that? It's not that America, the United States, was going to launch a surprise strike on Russia. I didn't say that. Are we having a talk show or a serious conversation?

Here's the quote. Thank you. It's a formidable series. Because your basic education is in history, as far as I understand. Yes. So if you don't mind, I will take only 30 seconds or one minute to give you a short reference to history for giving you a little historical background. Let's look where our relationship with Ukraine started from. Where did Ukraine come from? The Russian state started gathering itself as a centralized statehood and it is considered to be the year of the establishment of the Russian state in 862, when the townspeople of Novgorod invited a Varangian prince, Rurik, from Scandinavia

to reign. Prince Yaroslav the Wise introduced the order of succession to a throne. But after he passed away, it became complicated for various reasons. The throne was passed not directly from father to eldest son, but from the prince, who had passed away to his brother, then to his sons in different lines. All this led to defragmentation and the end of Rus as a single state. I'll give you these documents. Well, it doesn't sound like you're inventing it, I'm not sure why it's relevant to what happened two years ago. But still, these are documents from the archives, copies. So that was his friend Vlad. He was like, Vlad, give us those documents.

For those who didn't watch the full thing, I'm not kidding. It was like that for 30 straight minutes. I listened to the full thing. I promise you, I internalized many of Putin's history lessons, but it was very clear here. And I thought what Tucker actually said the best in his follow upup was, okay, I don't see why this is relevant. And if it was, why didn't you invade Ukraine on the first day that you took into office? Yeah. If you think Ukraine is a totally illegitimate state, why did you wait more than a decade while being in office in order to invade? There were also, it was, this is the other thing. Look, again, as someone who believes that Russia has legitimate security concerns and the NATO expansion was a strategic disaster for the US, Putin also is not calibrated for the way that we argue here in the West,

because he didn't mention that once. It all went back to what? The history of Ukraine. Ukraine is an illegitimate state. And by the way, and this is what validates like the worst Russia hawks in this country. He kept saying how Poland, Lithuania, and all of them are illegitimate state. And by the way, and this is what validates like the worst Russia hawks in this country. He kept saying how Poland, Lithuania and all of them are illegitimate states too under the same definition of why he hates the Bolsheviks and the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. I mean, he did at least say, I have no interest in invading Poland. That would lead to a world war and that wouldn't be good. But it's like- And he did say that very unequivocally. Yeah, he did say it unequivocally. Can take his word for it or not. Yeah, whether he could take the word for it or not.

But my main takeaway is like, look, this man's brain is literally addled by imperialism. Like, and I put this out, this is my only real reaction, is everyone always talks about how Putin is KGB. No, he doesn't have a communist bone in his body. Putin is straight out of central casting of the dukes and the czars of the late 19th century. He is the same paranoid, obsessive, feeling inferior to the West.

They believe in Russian defense in depth in terms of imperial territory. Orban put it best, is that Russian security thinking has nothing to do with democracy. It has to do with democracy. It has to keeping with the whole together. And that the togetherness, the security in the whole of the country is considered genuinely existential if we analyze it through the lens of the tragedy of the First World War. And then according to Putin, the greatest tragedy in the history of Russia was the demise of the Soviet Union, not for communist reasons, but for imperial territorial reasons. And it is very clear to me that that is who he is. He is only solidified in age, and he has a almost autistic need to impress this upon the West and the American

people. And the problem for him is that is just counter to any modern understanding, not even just Western, modern understanding for the community of nations in the post World War Two era. Yeah, it just doesn't fly. I have many observations. Let me start with the most surface level. So it will not surprise you all to learn. I have very low expectations for how Tucker would conduct himself in this interview. He vastly surpassed my expectations.

I thought he did a good job in general. Good job. Especially like, if you think about it and you are a journalist in this country, you know, with an autocrat who controls the military, controls the police, whatever, like, you know, you're in a, you're in a tough position, right? You're in a jam. And it's not like you can just cut this man off when he wants to go on his really it was 50 minutes of a historical diatribe, but definitely 30 minutes of a historical diatribe. And I don't think it really behooves you to cut him off either, because he decided this is what he wants to put out to us and to the world. And whether it was Tucker Carlson or George Stephanopoulos or whoever it was going to be, it was very clear Vladimir Putin was going to say his piece about the thousand years of history that he feels justifies this moment. And so for Tucker to

just react by being like, I don't really see how this is relevant. That's really the best that you could do in that circumstance. And he went on, we'll show you some more pieces. He went on to ask some really important questions that I thought were, you know, were quite good, including pushing for the release of the Wall Street Journal reporter, which I was very gratified to see that he did. Okay, that's number one. Number two, in terms of Putin, there was clearly a lot of like alpha assertion of dominance. We'll show you a little bit of that, too, with him like throwing in Tucker's face like, oh, the CIA, you know, that organization that you wanted to work for previously. There was another moment where Tucker said something to the effect of like, you know, he's trying to get Putin back on track, trying to kind of cut off this historical diatribe. And Putin says to him,

oh, I'm sorry, I'm boring you. And Tucker said, well, you're not boring me. I'm just not sure how it's relevant. And he says, well, I'm glad you're, I'm gratified to hear that you're enjoying my historical lesson. And he continues. He just doesn't care. There's just a lot of like, apparently he made Tucker wait like two hours sitting there waiting for him. We just showed you the very opening moment where Putin immediately, and this is very intentional, you know, I mean, we've done enough interviews to see these sort of games being played by people, especially people in power, where he immediately jumps in and puts Tucker in his place of like, are we doing a talk show or are we doing a serious

conversation here? That sets the tone for the entire thing. So, okay. So those are sort of like the surface level theatrics. I reached out to our friend Yegor for his reaction. You know, Russian, what is he taking from this? How is he viewing this? And he had a few noteworthy comments that were things that I would not

have picked up on. So in that moment- And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints.com. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left.

In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. Listen to does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So guys, while we were watching the Super Bowl last night, Israel began bombing Rafah Crossing. That is the place where over a million Palestinians have been displaced to just right there at the bottom of the Gaza Strip. And you can see some of the aftermath of those strikes

as people were waking up in the morning. You can see the grief and the horror of those who have been struck, children who have been injured among those who were bombed. And this was something that people have been fearing for a while. Not that Rafah has been a safe place during this war whatsoever. But of course, I recall, you know, initially attacks were the heaviest in Gaza City. People left Gaza City. They moved to Khan Yunus. Khan Yunus came under incredible bombardment. People were pushed down to Rafah. And as I said, it is literally, you know, the border crossing there with Egypt. And there has been grave international concern about what this could mean for the

civilians who are sheltering there already under horrifying humanitarian conditions. We can put this up on the screen as part of this bombardment, Israel saying that they were able to rescue two hostages held by Hamas in Rafah. Let me read you a little bit of this report from the Wall Street Journal of the official record of what occurred here. They say Israel rescued two hostages held in Gaza in an overnight raid as the military prepares for a larger operation to enter what it says is the last bastion for Hamas, where more than one million Palestinians are sheltering. The Israeli military said Monday the rescue of Fernando Simon Marban and Luis Har was a complicated operation

performed under fire in the heart of Rafah, a city in southern Gaza near where Palestinians are seeking refuge from the conflict between Israel and Hamas. At roughly 2 a.m. local time, military forces and a police SWAT team broke into a house in Rafah, engaged in a gunfight with Hamas militants while shielding the hostages before evacuating them to a secure location. In addition, those airstrikes that we played you a little bit of the video of in Gaza killed 164 people overnight, including dozens in Rafah. That is according to health authorities on the ground. So a deadly night. And Sagar, obviously incredibly significant, the rescue of these two hostages. This is something that Israel has almost completely failed in accomplishing through military operations, believe they were previously able to rescue one hostage. That means they have now killed as many

hostages as they have been able to rescue of their own hostages in terms of, right. They killed three, they've rescued three now. Oh, that's right. So I guess it's even from that regard. There are also somewhere estimates around 50 hostages who've been killed during the Israeli bombardment of Gaza. So, you know, a rare success for them in terms of bringing hostages home, but obviously unacceptably high, horrific toll on the civilian population there in Raqqa. Yeah, it's very, I mean, that really, I think, is just a continued extension of the Biden policy. And I think that just shows you where Biden is schizophrenic. And at this point, I would just prefer it if he just said, I'm just signing up for everything Israel is doing.

Because what is the point of these constant leakings of things like, oh, I think it's over the top. I think you shouldn't do it. We have some of that that we can go ahead and play, where in his age press conference where he tried to clean everything up and where he confused the Egyptian leader with the president of Mexico, he also did make some news where he said that the Israeli response has been over the top. Let's take a listen to what he said. The conduct of the response in the Gaza Strip has been over the top. Initially, the president of Mexico, Osisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him. I convinced him to open the gate.

I talked to Bibi to open the gate on the Israeli side. I've been pushing really hard, really hard, to get humanitarian assistance into Gaza. There are a lot of innocent people who are starving, a lot of innocent people who are in trouble and dying, and it's got to stop. And I'm pushing very hard now to deal with this hostage ceasefire

Because as you know, I've been working tirelessly in this deal How can I say this without revealing? To lead to a sustained pause I have no proof what I'm about to say, but it's not a reasonable suspect that The Hamas understood what was about to take place and wanted to break it up before it happened. Okay. I mean, what are we supposed to take away from that? It's like, I think it's over the top. I think a hostage deal is going to happen. By the way, it's not even true. And then later on, as we learned, and you're about to break down, Crystal, they had a phone call where Biden was like, please don't do this.

We're against the operation, or I guess we want you to be more concerned. And they were like, no, that's not going to happen. And they've rejected the ceasefire deal now at this point. It just seems clear that they're, look, it's been clear now for a while. They're going to do whatever they want to do. The administration is like constantly expressing concern, leaking phone calls. And, you know, they're going to get to a point where I think we're slow walking ourselves to a full break. And we're about to talk about this with Egypt. We are in genuinely unprecedented waters. What I have always thought was this, is that Biden and them will, you know, back Israel and all that to the point. But an actual expulsion of the mass millions of people from Gaza is a war triggering event of some kind. I'm not exactly

sure what. It could be Hamas, Iran. It could happen in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, et cetera. But it will be a break, you know, for foreign relations. We're getting to a point where that seems almost inevitable at this point, where we're going to have to make a choice when obviously it could have, this is the, this really was probably the last time. And we could probably look back, you know, on the beginning of this. And if there is no ceasefire deal or any of that, I don't see a separate way out of this, you know, in terms of what exactly is going to happen. Just because we've got a million five people who are all clustered in a single area and they can't go north. There's only one way to go. The Egyptians are threatening to terminate.

So now what? What are we going to do here? Up against the border. There is nowhere else for them to go. You all have seen the images of northern Gaza. There is nothing left for them to return to. And by the way, it's not safe for them. They have not been told by the Israeli military that they can go back without being presumed to be terrorists and murdered for the, you know, for existing in an

area that used to be their homes. It is, Bibi has ordered for the military to draw up plans to evacuate these civilians. And again, there is nowhere for them to go except out of the Gaza Strip entirely and complete the program of ethnic cleansing, which plenty of people in his government have made it really crystal clear, including drawing maps and having plans of who's going to take how many of these refugees, etc. That that is 100% their end goal. With regard to Biden and his comments that the Israeli response is over the top, okay? First of all, there was a whole, you know, news cycle of, oh my goodness, these this is the furthest Biden has gone. I mean, even this language is so weak and so sanitized, given what has been done to these people. I mean, they are all displaced for their homes.

The entire strip has been basically decimated at this point. 30 plus thousand killed, majority women and children, hospitals, schools, universities, you know, ambulances target. I'm going to do a monologue tomorrow about this little girl and her rescuers that were targeted and murdered by the IDF. And the best you can say is quote unquote over the top. And to Sagar's point, to make matters worse, like if it's over the top, or as he said before, the bombing is disproportionate, do something about it. But we know all they'll do, which we have another report in the press that I just saw this morning, another one of these like, oh, he's concerned and Bibi's hard to maneuver, but behind the scenes,

he's very, like, obviously none of this is having any kind of an impact, even if you are actually having these quote unquote tough conversations without throwing your weight around. So here we are. And what has been done already is completely unjustifiable to the point that the ICJ has said they're plausibly committing a genocide. And the most you can do is say it's quote unquote over the top. Let me put this up on the screen. This is also in that vein of like, oh, the deep concerns that we have, blah, blah, blah, which really is just disgusting and offensive to see these reports at this point. But this is the latest from Axios. Biden tells Bibi, no Rafah operation without plan to protect Palestinian civilians. Of course, as we already showed you, they already said, screw you, and have started bombing Rafah without any plan to protect Palestinian civilians over 164 people dead

in airstrikes overnight. The details here are he spoke to Bibi on Sunday. He cautioned him against the military operation. Why it matters. There's growing frustration. How many times have we heard that, Sagar? In the White House with Netanyahu and the Israeli government's rejection of several U.S. requests. Biden earlier this week called the Israeli military operation in Gaza over the top. Oh, wow. I'm sure that'll really make them listen. And here's the other thing is like, if you know anything about Netanyahu specifically, his government specifically, but also where Israeli society is, the prosecution of the war and the direction

that this was going to go in was 100% predictable and predicted, including by people like us who aren't experts at the time. From the beginning, we knew what this was going to look like. And all we have ever gotten are these pathetic and impotent leaks about how concerned they are. So the stakes here, not only first and foremost for Palestinian civilians, but not only for Palestinian civilians for the region and the broader world, could not possibly be higher. Egypt, let's put this out. They are furious about this potential operation, which already appears to have begun in Rafah.

They are threatening to suspend the Camp David Accords that were negotiated by freaking Jimmy Carter if Israel pushes in to Rafah and engages in an all-out assault there, Egypt is threatening to suspend that peace treaty if Israeli troops are sent into the densely populated Gaza border town of Rafah, says fighting there could force the closure of the territory's main aid supply route to Egyptian officials and a Western diplomat, said Sunday. The threat to suspend the Camp David Accords, a cornerstone of regional stability for nearly half a century, came after Bibi sent troops into

Rafah and said that it was necessary to win the four-month-old war against the Palestinian militant group Hamas. Egypt fears a mass influx of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees who may never be allowed to return. By the way, Netanyahu in an interview with ABC News said that civilians in Rafah could flee north, saying there are plenty of areas that have been cleared by the army, said Israel's developing a detailed plan to relocate them. A European Union foreign policy chief, Joseph Worrell, he said an Israeli offensive on Rafah would lead to an unspeakable humanitarian catastrophe and grave tensions with Egypt. Egypt, by the way, was also extremely pissed at Joe Biden's comments that we played earlier, accusing them of blocking aid from

coming in and also released a statement saying basically like, this is bullshit. We have been trying to help with aid the whole time. But I mean, this is a threat of war effectively, is what this looks like. Well, that's why I'm actually the most concerned as I am right now, because the Egyptians, the Camp David Peace Accords, I mean, we shouldn't forget Egypt and Israel fought a lot of wars prior to this. I believe the number is five in terms of the number of full-blown military conflicts. Don't forget this. Other than the Cuban Missile Crisis, the closest that the world has ever come to a nuclear exchange was the Yom Kippur War that we were very, very lucky to get out of. So there was a reason that those were signed by Jimmy Carter, and it was considered one of the most important things that he did while he was president.

And the building upon that peace framework from Oslo was such an important part of that. Now, the other problem that I see here is, again, is that the Arab states are genuinely being pushed into a corner. Let's put this up here on the screen. This is from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They say the KSA warns of, quote, very serious repercussions of storming and targeting of the city of Rafah in the Gaza Strip. We don't know what exactly that means, but we do know this, that the Saudis have a major military. They have capacity. Probably more important for Israel's

case, they got a lot of money, and they have a lot of money and ties to a lot of people who are very willing to blow themselves up inside of Israel and nearby, as you can ask anybody who fought in Iraq and in Syria or who's observed international terrorism. This is one of those where, I have to say it again, the Saudi royal family, they don't care about Palestine. They barely even care about the Arabs. But the Saudi population and those Saudi clerics, those people care a lot. And the KSA, they rely upon basically the acquiescence of their people and of the clerics to keep things going. They've had like a weird detente over the last 25 years. If things step up, if there is some sort of ethnic, they may not have a choice, you know, to do something militarily to support Egypt. Who knows? If we could find ourselves in a serious Yom Kippur-level diplomatic crisis. We've already had the Egyptian president,

not president, prime minister, I think, who has said that they, quote, will sacrifice millions to make sure that there is no mass expulsion of people onto their territory. That is a threat of war. So now it's the question, what is going to happen? Netanyahu, as you said, said they can flee north. They're not, obviously, because it's a critical zone. But the other thing is that, you know, how much confidence do you really have in Israeli targeting? Because if they blow up the wall or border area crossing, which this is the real Egyptian fear, then people will just run into the Sinai. And if that happens, you know, it's not like the Israelis are going to let them back in. That's what they want. That's literally their goal. So now we're in a genuine standoff in a crisis. And that's a war. And then we will find ourselves

involved in that because we supply both sides of it. That's exactly right. Because I mean, people have been forced into unimaginable circumstances. Their homes bombed, nothing to return to, living in tents amidst a million other people, starving to death, no sanitation, medical facilities bombed. And so the level of desperation absolutely means that if the border is bombed and the crossing is open, people will flee into Egypt. I would do it too. I don't blame them at all. Of course, they're fleeing for their lives. I would do the same thing. And that's to be clear. And that those conditions directly created by Israel. I mean, so the, you know, then this is another thing they came out and said at that like resettlement ethnic

cleansing conference that we covered here, as they said, you know, sometimes, uh, resettlement are conditions that you create until people leave. So basically, you just threaten to kill them and bomb their children or whatever until they have no choice but to flee for their lives. And that those are the conditions they have already created. The only thing standing between, you know, the complete goal of ethnic cleansing of the territory and not is the Rafa border border. So that that's where we are. That is the precipice that we're standing on. And I also want to say, you know, in terms of this leaked phone call of Biden to Bibi saying like, oh, you can't attack Rafa until there's some sort

of plan for civilians. Right another way, that's basically a green light. That's not saying, number one, it's certainly not saying I'm going to do anything about it. That's number one. Number two, it's not even saying don't do it. It's saying, oh, you have to float some kind of a plan for civilians in the area, which Bibi is claiming that he's doing, even though there is nowhere else for these people to go. They are already pressed up against the southern border and the rest of the Gaza Strip has already been destroyed and occupied. So I don't know. It's a horrifying and terrifying moment for these human beings. And it is a terrifying moment for us and the world as well. I genuinely think we

are on the precipice of absolute chaos. It very much could be. We'll continue to monitor the situation here. Thank you guys so much for watching. We really appreciate you. And hopefully you can help support our work here. Or if you want to hear our analysis on the Tucker Carlson interview, breakingpoints.com. We're going to be running some experiments and things like that here. So bear with us. But other than that, we're going to have a show for everybody on Tuesday. We're looking forward to it. We'll have more clips from the RFK Junior Focus Group for the rest of the week. And they go out full. The whole thing comes out early for our premium subs. Another reason that you should subscribe. But we'll see you then. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila.

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