Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 2/22/24: Pelosi New Trump Russia Conspiracy, Nvidia Surges Amid AI Boom, Kellogg CEO Tells Poor Eat Dinner Cereal, Google AI Shut Down, Dems Panic Over Michigan Israel Revolt, Republican Calls For Gaza Extermination, Gaza Food Trucks Ambushed, Assange Trial Wraps Up

Episode Date: February 22, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss Pelosi floating new Trump Russia conspiracy, Nvidia surges as AI expands, Kellogg CEO tells poor to eat cereal dinner, Google shuts down AI after bizarre release, Dems panic amid Michigan Israel revolt, Republican calls for Gaza extermination, starving Gazans ambush limited food trucks, and press freedom under assault at Assange trial.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chaston. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind Boy Sober, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, Boy Sober is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.

Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John,

who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the okay. Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune Well, Sam, luckily, it's You're Not the Father Week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. He's trying to give it to his irresponsible son, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up.

They could lose their family and millions of dollars? Yep. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, guys, Ready or Not 2024 is here, and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election. We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody. Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed, we do. Lots of interesting things happening in the world.

Russiagate is back. I guess it never really left us. And it is more deranged than ever. So we'll show you the very latest if you don't want to miss this. The Kellogg CEO is now pushing cereal for dinner as a cost-saving measure. Doesn't sound great. AI is really going through some things. Chat GPT went off the rails, and there's a lot going on. I don't even know what to say about the inability to accurately portray things, basic things like a European family. We'll get into all of that. Dems are freaking out about

voters voting uncommitted in the upcoming Michigan primary. Top Democrats are really sounding the alarms there over Biden's incredibly unpopular among the Democratic base policy of unconditional support for Israel. Speaking of that, it has been a big week for the U.S., running cover for Israeli atrocities, and a United States congressman saying to an activist that we should kill all the children in Gaza. I'm not even kidding you there. We also have a reporter who is on the ground in the U.K. for Julian Assange's appeal trying to block extradition to the United States. So he is going to give us an update. Looking forward to that. But before we get to any of

that, thank you to all of you who have supported us through a premium subscription. It has made all the difference in the world to us. And we have some exciting things coming up for you. That's right. So as we mentioned, we're going to have a State of the Union live stream on March 7th. And actually, just to tease this a little bit, we've decided to up the stakes even a little bit. If you are a premium subscriber, we will have a private live stream during that at one point, which will only be available to them. And we will be taking questions live from the audience. So if you want to be able to participate in that with an exclusive live stream, you can go ahead and sign up. BreakingPoints.com and support us.

But with that, let's get to Russiagate, as you said, which is somehow in the last week or so, the bat signal has gone out to really revive the what does Russia have on Trump. You may think I'm exaggerating. I truly am not. Here is Jen Psaki, the former White House press secretary now on MSNBC State TV, joined by Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker, being asked and floating genuine deranged conspiracy theories live on television. Here's what they had to say. What do you think? We're all wondering this question, Speaker Pelosi. What do you think Putin has on him? I mean, it sure seems like something, as you've said a few times, given that he refuses to criticize him, that he seems to be a fanboy of him. Had the honor of serving in the White House,

didn't consider it an honor, didn't consider his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. And on this week, speaking out the way he did about Navalny shows you that he is a person without values. He looks like he's going to be a person without dollars either, but the values are what concern us. Yes, the dollars. I don't know what he has on them, but I think it's probably financial. I think it's probably financial, either something financially has on or something on the come. What was that at the end there? But listen, something financial. It's like, Crystal, after all of the investigations, the Mueller, the Congress, the what was that

whole group of bank theory, Alpha Bank? Yes, right, the server ping. After all of these that we have been subjected to now over the years, seven and a half years or so into the Trump era, this is still alive and well on MSNBC being floated, as you said, probably something financial. I mean, then go ahead and reverse it. It's like it's just as deranged, you know, whenever people are like. I mean, then go ahead and reverse it. It's like, it's just as deranged, you know, whenever people are like, I think Biden is being personally paid by China. It's like, listen, you got to have evidence for stuff that you're going to say now

at this point. And frankly, there's probably a better case for that via Hunter than there is for any of this, just because this has been investigated ad nauseum. The world's journalists have all obviously been desperate for it. The world's, all of the intelligence services, the US intelligence service, if there was even a scrap there, we would know about it by now. I am so sick of this crap. I cannot even tell you. And it's worth remembering, this is also the woman, Nancy Pelosi, that floated that ceasefire protesters were potentially being paid by Russia or needed to go back to their handlers in China. I mean, she thinks nothing of floating the most insane and completely baseless conspiracy theories. But because she has so much power and access in Washington, when she says it,

a lot of gullible people think there must be some there that she must know something that we don't. No, she's just making crap up. Because if she wasn't, if she actually had some evidence of like some financial whatever that they quote unquote have on Trump, she would put it in front of the American people. So that's number one. Number two, we have now lived through a Trump administration and we know what his policy was vis-a-vis Russia and vis-a-vis Ukraine. And while yes, he would say some sort of weird, fawning things about Putin, as he still does, and yes, he was critical of NATO before he became

president, the reality is when he actually governed, he was very hawkish towards Russia, more so than Barack Obama had been. NATO expanded. The bulk of his critique about NATO still is pushing for Europeans to pay more, which means NATO would be actually better funded for the future. So the reality of what the policy was does not at all match up with these continued elaborate Russiagate conspiracies. And finally, the thing that really pisses me off about this too is that it distracts from actually the much more credible and much more real Trump corruption, like the connections with Saudi Arabia, the money he's taken from that makes it easier for Trump to dismiss all of their critiques as ridiculous, a witch hunt, a conspiracy, et cetera, et cetera. And this has screwed up our foreign policy. I mean, the level of Russia derangement that came out of the original Russiagate moment is something that we are still

living through and coping with and has confused the American people about what our foreign policy priorities and realities should actually be. Oh, absolutely right. There's no way that our policy in Ukraine would be as deranged as it is without Russia. I'm absolutely convinced of that. It probably instigated at least parts of the war itself in terms of forcing, not forcing Trump, he's a grown man, but at least for him trying to appear tough by shipping all these weapons to Ukraine and all of that in the first place, then adopted and pushed even further by the Biden administration. And just so you know, this is not just Nancy Pelosi. We have two other instances that we can show you. Here is Representative Dan Goldman, the Democrat heir to the Levi Strauss fortune, now making the same case, not even about Trump, but about the entire Republican caucus.

Here's what he has to say. Not only is there no evidence of any wrongdoing by President Biden, but it now appears as if the House Republican majority is being used by Russia to interfere in the 2024 election on behalf of Donald Trump. If they continue with this investigation, they are simply doing the work of Vladimir Putin to help Donald Trump win an election in November. That's where we are. What he's getting at there, Crystal, is I will get to this in a little bit about the indicted FBI informant. But, you know, you made a good point the last time we talked about this. You could make the exact same case about the Steele dossier and for all of the Russian connections that were included in that and Christopher Steele and all the other nonsense. Did you not then, you know, fall prey to a foreign intelligence? Basically, yes. And,

you know, gaslight the American people. That's why, you know, all of these accusations, dual loyalty, treason, et cetera, they need to be founded in like actual evidence, not just thrown about willy nilly. And, you know, I think a perfect point is, look, the American people have had their say on what they think about Donald Trump and the Republicans and what actually pisses them off about it. Number one, abortion. You guys led your show yesterday with that Alabama Supreme Court. That is 15,000 to 20,000 times more important for the election than any of this nonsense. But that's why it is a brain worm. This is a mental disease that these people suffer from. They would rather talk about that than, or about this, than they would about Alabama,

abortion, stop the steal, any of the things that most Americans are genuinely pissed off about with Trump. I think they actually believe it. I think they actually have like drank the Kool-Aid, like people, not Pelosi. Pelosi is just like a genuinely nefarious actor who will make up anything that she thinks serves her in the moment and for political ends, just see, you know, what she did to Dianne Feinstein there at the end, if you want to know anything about that woman and her moral character. But I think a lot of these people and a lot of the MSNBC hosts, I think they really

believe this stuff because they sort of had to have this commitment to it over so many years. And, you know, when you really need to believe something for your job, lo and behold, it becomes much easier to actually convince yourself of those things than to hold the space for just like I'm going to out and out lie to the American people. It's a more comfortable place for them to sit. So I think they've been convinced of the most insane and elaborate conspiracy theories. I don't think they really took in any of the evidence of the problems of the Steele dossier or, hey, by the way, what happened to the P-tape with Donald Trump that was supposedly out there? I mean, they just never really took in that so much of this, the most far-reaching conspiracies had been completely debunked. And I want to say, like, none of this is to cover for Putin, to cape for him, to say this

is a good guy or he's a good actor, we should trust him. I mean, this is a man who has, you know, Navalny's like death is on his hands. And, you know, whether you love Navalny or had issues with him or not, he's a political prisoner who is now dead. Like that is not a thing to accept or to cover for or to say is, you know, good in any way. Is Russia interested in like, quote unquote, meddling in our elections and screwing with us? Sure. So are a lot of countries. We do the same shit all around the world, by the way, and to probably successfully. Yeah. And more successfully and to probably a much greater

degree than Russia at this point could even dream of. So none of this is to say like Russia's great and everything they do is wonderful. No, I think that the invasion of Ukraine was illegal. I think it was horrendous. I think that they are responsible for starting this war. Now, we are responsible in a lot of ways for continuing that war, for creating the context that led to that war. All of those things do not absolve us either. adversaries without delving into elaborate conspiracies that do nothing but confuse and lead us away from pursuing what is in our interest in Ukraine is an interest in global interest. And speaking of realistic view, it might help to not confuse the current Russian regime with communists. Apparently, that's not something that MSNBC's Morning Joe is capable of.

Here's what he had to say. The message that she is getting right now from Mike, little Mike Johnson and Donald Trump. It's just devastating. And the message is this. Republicans, who for the past 50 years have been the main force to push back hard on communism, they've surrendered to the communists. They've surrendered. Mike Johnson surrendered to the communists, to the ex-communists, to the wannabe communists. Mike Johnson surrendered. Donald Trump surrendered a long time ago to Vladimir Putin.

Surrendered to Xi a long time ago. He has nothing but praise for Xi, for Kim Jong-un, these communist leaders, Mika. And that is a message that Xi is receiving loud and clear that it's not just Donald Trump now. It is the Republican Party. What's the bulwark against communist aggression? It is the Republican Party, Ronald Reagan's old party that is now collapsed. It's completely gone. And this is a terrifying inflection point.

It is. And for anybody who doesn't take it seriously or think the election doesn't matter or says, oh, he's not serious, you're out of your mind. You're out of your mind if you confuse communism with the Putin regime, who himself is probably one of the biggest critics of the Soviet Union. That's the great irony of the entire thing. It's just like, dude, what are we doing here? And also, you know, yeah, Reagan was anti-communist in the 80s. It's been a long time since that happened. This literally hasn't even occurred in my lifetime.

And yet it's still somehow, you know, on cable news here, and it just demonstrates to people the sheer anti-intellectualism that is all wrapped up in their prestige, which fundamentally just collapses. You articulate a very nuanced position about Russia. I basically agree with everything you said. It's like, yeah, Putin is a bad guy. Okay. There's a lot of bad people on Earth. That doesn't mean that you could sit there just because you don't want to kill them, take them, take them out of office and put regime change that you co-sign that behavior. That's right.

But we're incapable of nuance here, something that actually if you go back and you look at the Cold War, there were often many times where you had to make a decision between balancing risks of nuclear war and, quote, unquote, doing the moral thing, yet to deal with real world constraints, which these people are completely unable to do, which is really, frankly, just it's downstream of how much privilege that they really have and the US and how much little danger we've actually been in now for quite some time. Let's put the final thing up here on the screen just to give people a taste of where all of this is coming from. It says that the man accused last week, we did an entire segment about this in our earlier show, says he was delivering, quote, false allegations to federal investigators about Hunter Biden. He told officials about his arrest that individuals, quote, associated with Russian intelligence were tied to apparent efforts to peddle a story about the first son that federal

prosecutors revealed. So according to them, the guy who was caught lying to the FBI and to federal prosecutors about an alleged bribe, a $10 million bribe from the Ukrainian government to the Biden family was somehow connected to Russian intelligence. Number one, you know, we're taking the word here of a person who is admitting here to lying in terms of what he said. Second, okay, like you said, that's probably true. Maybe it's true, but it's one of those where, does that mean it's a direct Russian effort to influence the election, or are they just creating chaos to create it in the same way that they have done far before the Biden administration, Russiagate, and all of that. And I even think, yeah, it's bad. You know, you can be like, okay, this is very, very bad. Is this like some sort of grand big plan to try and shape and change the election? Nobody with a brain actually believes that unless, you know, you're one of these people. I mean, it goes back to 2016 and the fact that, yeah,

there was a Russian influence operation that was, you know, putting up these like cringe, weird Bernie Sanders memes, you know, like pushing these Donald pro Donald Trump Facebook groups with like terrible broken English. It's not that these things don't exist. But think about our presidential campaigns. Think about how much money, like billions of dollars that are going to be spent trying to manipulate and shape and convince the electorate. And even with that much money spent and so much overt propaganda, it is so difficult to shift what people's views are and move them in one direction or another. So we understand that when it comes to actual campaigns

that are being run. But somehow we think like a Russian Facebook group is suddenly going to flip a switch in the electorate and throw it to one side or to the other side. And it freaks people out in a way that we should be more realistic about. So do the Russians have some interest in who is the next president of the United States? Putin says he prefers Joe Biden, actually. Do I believe him? I don't know. But that's what he says. But, you know, do they have one preference or another? Yes. Do they, you know, have some sort of operation to try to influence that outcome as best they can? Yes. Should we be terrified by

that? Should we take this piece of information, which we don't even 100 percent know is true, and then concoct from that an elaborate conspiracy theory, Manchurian candidate, they must have something on Trump and they're just like, we're just, you know, puppets on a string dancing to Putin's tune. No, no, that's not reality. It's just as preposterous as imagining that some Facebook memes back in 2016 are the reason that Donald Trump got elected in the first place. So everybody relax. It's OK.

We're going to be fine in terms of, you know, the Russian influence operation and just take it for what it is. It's not that it's not concerning. It's not that it's something that we should just like ignore and push to the side. But is this 100 percent dictating our politics? And it's a red alarm alert and it proves the most deranged conspiracy theories. You know, they're going back to the Hunter laptop now and saying this is proof that the Hunter laptop was in fact a Russian influence operation and all those intel officials instead of bears the hallmarks of a Russian operation and then had to like apologize

for it, that actually they've been proven right. So just don't take it for more than what it is, is all I would say. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024.

VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship

that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father?

Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. Now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair. Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous. But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret,

even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret? Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Business

Week. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be covering on everybody's business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's move on to the next part here because this is equally part of the whole Russia op. Let's put this up there on the screen. This has become the latest cause. U.S. warns allies Russia could put a nuclear weapon into orbit this year. The American assessments are divided. President Vladimir Putin denied having such intention, saying that Russia was categorically against it. It would be against one of the treaties that we've all signed with respect to space, not necessarily meaning that they wouldn't do it. But the reason why I think that this is important is this is all traced back to the

congressman who ignited a domestic fervor when he said, Crystal, there is dangerous intelligence that needs to be declassified and made known to the American people at the exact same time that there was a huge push in the House of Representatives to reauthorize FISA and spying powers by the National Security Agency. And lo and behold, ever since that leak, now the space nuke has become like the latest reason why we all have to be terrified. We need to get into an arms race. And what nobody ever declines to tell you is this. Number one, even if the alleged device is real and if it is, you know, ever launched, it is not capable of like launching from space to the earth. It is specifically an anti-satellite weapon. Now, let me again clue

everybody into this. Everything in space is quote unquote dual use. If you have a satellite, for example, that you can course correct, let's say this way or that way, you also technically have a satellite which you could course correct into another satellite if you want to. It doesn't matter if it's a nuke or not. All of us, the Chinese, Russians, Americans, even the commercial space companies, we have the capability to screw each other's comms up if we want. In a lot of ways, it's mutually assured destruction because if we do it to them, then they might do it to us. This does not really change any strategic position in space at all. That's number one from an actual space point of view. Two, it is so obviously an effort in recent days to gin up even more like being terrified of Russia as some sort of military

power where, and this is where, again, I can't square it. On the one hand, we're supposed to support Ukraine, like this piddly army, which is literally incapable of producing its own bullets because the Russians are so weak and they're able, they're going to crush them and move them past their borders. And then on the other, it's the new Soviet Union. It's 1956 or whatever. Sputnik and we need all this on. It's, listen, you're being propagandized. Like nobody's being honest with you about what actual real threats or any of that look like. And yet, you know, here we are. And you've got the New York Times. That's the front page of the New York Times, just so everybody knows. And the national security people are freaking out about this. They're ginning up why we need more weapons, why somehow we can defeat the space nuke if we Ukraine funding, but also we need to reauthorize warrantless surveillance on Americans. That's the sort of use that this fear is intended to be put towards. So you are being manipulated. I mean, the psyops around Russia are so much more

powerful with the American public than the actual Russian influence operations are. And also to be clear about this potential capability, even American intel agencies that were talking in the New York Times were very split and divided on the reality of what is going on here. There's also a reality that if Russia was theoretically to use some space nuke, that they would likely be taking out their own satellites in addition to our satellites. So in any case, it sounds very, very scary. Like if you say Russian space nuke, that sounds terrifying. The reality is a lot, is not something to say like, okay, we can just hand wave away and it's no concern whatsoever. But it isn't categorically different than the current status quo reality. So again, take these things in context of what they actually

mean and also what they're being pushed to the public in order to try to compel you to accept. You know, anytime a politician is really pushing fear the way that these, you know, national security hawks on the Republican side in particular in Congress were pushing, you need to ask what their goal is and what they're trying to get you to swallow. Yeah. And that's the thing. Nobody's honest with you about space. Like I just said, we already have the capability to all destroy each other's satellites if we want to. America has a program called, which is actually pretty cool, called the X-37B, which is like a robotic spacecraft. It just flies around up there. It's been flying around for years. None of us have

any idea what it does. It drives the Chinese and the Russians nuts. So it's not like all of us aren't doing the exact same thing. And it fits also into a broader program where we're just supposed to accept, you know, the established policy response from Washington with no question. Put this up there, the latest one, President Biden, after he said that there would, quote, be devastating sanctions if Navalny died, is now saying that he will pit Russia, quote, with major sanctions in response to the death of Navalny. Now, here's the thing. It says the new sanctions are designed to hold Russia accountable for what happened to Mr. Navalny, as well as all of its actions over the course of this vicious and brutal war. Here's the issue. We've already sanctioned this economy to hell.

There's like not a living Russian who's even connected to the government that can set foot in the West now at this point, access a bank account. You know, you can't sell them weapons or anything. What else are we supposed to do, you know, in terms of our sanctions and how well have they worked? Russian war material is at an all time high. They're buying as many things as they want from the North Koreans. The Chinese and the Indians are floating their total economy. Clearly, sanctioning them has actually, frankly, just made them more self-sufficient away from the entire Western system. So it just belies the question of, do we just do these things to make us feel better? Because I'm pretty sure that's the answer. Yes, correct. I mean, what is this doing? That's like all of our foreign policy at

this point. Like, why are we hitting the Houthis? It's not like we think that it's going to change the status quo. We know that the problem is all because of Israel's assault on Gaza. But yeah, we do them to say that we did something, you know, I mean, we acknowledge there's no military solution to Hamas. What the hell are we doing then? What are we supporting? But it again, it's just like, you know, the sort of kayfabe. And it's the same thing here. Russia is already, you know, one of the most sanctioned countries in history. And they, not to say it hasn't had any impact, but they had the ability to plan to be sanctioned in the future because they'd been sanctioned in the past and prepare for it. And their economy is actually

doing much better at this point than Israel's economy, to use another example. So most likely these sanctions will probably, rather than targeting the, you know, oligarchic elites in Russia, they will very likely be because, you know, the oligarchic elites are already heavily sanctioned. These are probably going to be the sort of things that hurt ordinary Russians who, you know, have nothing to do with an autocratic leader and his prerogatives and priorities. And just, you know, the last thing that I have to point out about Navalny, because we're covering Julian Assange's, you know, continued extradition appeal going on in the UK. Julian Assange is in very poor health. He's been so weak that he was unable to participate in these hearings, even remotely, even by Zoom. So, you know, his family has been telling us for a long time now that his life is

truly in jeopardy and on the line directly because at this point of the Biden administration, started under the Trump administration, but now the continuation and commitment of the Biden administration to prosecute this man because he revealed the secrets of American elites and embarrassed them and was in many ways a dissenting and oppositional figure. It's not that different from the circumstances surrounding Navalny's death. So there is so much hypocrisy too with regard to the Biden administration and their purported commitment to freedom of the press and not jailing, you know, persecuting political opponents, et cetera. So I just wanted to make that note as well, while we're thinking about sanctions and Navalny here. You should. And unfortunately, it's something that Putin

throws in our face also every time. Absolutely. That it gets. OK, let's move on to the economy. There was some major news that happened just yesterday that I wanted to give some points to. Let's put this up there on the screen because it's absolutely fascinating. Nvidia has now reported fourth quarter results that have topped Wall Street expectations at the top and the bottom line. The chip giant has reported a stunning adjusted earning per share of $5.5 and 16 cents. But the more important thing is that their revenue was $22 billion this quarter compared to estimates of $20.4 billion. That is the data center revenue

specifically that has topped all of their expectations. Their CEO, Jensen Huang, says that accelerated computing and generative AI have hit the tipping point and demand is surging worldwide across companies, industries, and nations. The reason why all eyes were on the NVIDIA earning reports, Crystal, I was kind of telling you about this before they came out yesterday, is that NVIDIA at this point has become so dramatically valued in the S&P 500. But basically the hopes of the US tech sector, and it's not an exaggeration, a huge portion of index funds and thus all 401ks retirement accounts for the vast majority of people are riding in some ways on this one stock. And the stock itself, for the earnings of this company, we're talking about something that has seen like orders of magnitude exponential growth in just the last decade. And it is belied by the fact that they make the infrastructure, the chips, that are what many of these large AI companies are then using to power their data centers and others.

So their earnings and their ability to generate revenue and to continue that increase is kind of a bet on AI as a backdrop of the US economy and the changing nature of where a lot of capital and other things are flowing. So it is a bright spot if you are a stockholder, but it is also indicative of how much money continues to flow into AI and why, you know, as we cover all of the social changes that happen as a result, there's no stopping it. And I think the CEO is definitely correct. Like, it is a tipping point in that, you know, this is one of the most powerful valuable companies now on earth. I wouldn't say it was virtually unheard of 10 years ago, but it was not even close to the power of Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and all that that it is now. I mean, it's now valued up near like Exxon in terms of a company that almost,

frankly, almost came out of nowhere. And so it shows us like where the power in the U.S. economy is going. So according to CNN, NVIDIA makes up 70% of AI semiconductor sales to show you how dominant they are in the industry and how critical they are to it. And I guess, Sagar, my understanding was part of why people were watching closely to see this earnings report was basically to get a sense of whether the AI boom is real or if this is like a bubble that's sort of, you know, been overhyped and imminently about to bust. And also to see whether the Biden administration's restrictions on exports of chip sales to China, whether that had significantly curbed NVIDIA's growth. And I guess the answer is not so much. It did not. Yeah. I mean, everything that we're able to see here, I'll give everybody an example.

So in 2012, the annual revenue for NVIDIA was $3.9 billion. In 2024, it will be $60.9 billion. Last year, in 2023, they did $26 billion. And then, you know, just five, seven years ago in 2018, they did $9 billion. It's like one of the most insane rises in revenue for a U.S. company or for, yeah, for a U.S. company. I believe they're headquartered in Santa Clara ever. And it's one of those where it has come to now encompass so much of the S&P 500, of the tech sector. It's kind of an indicator of where all these things are going. And honestly, I find it kind of exciting to have a company like this just come out. We're so used to the Googles, the Facebooks, the Exxons, Microsoft, and all of

that, that all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you have this freaking insane company with all this productivity, this new CEO, the back, he's like holding the back of the US economy on top of him. But I also do want to caution everybody that the gains and the wealth that is all being generated here is pretty highly concentrated only in tech. And the better, honestly, the better that they do, the more we need to watch for the social implications of white collar work that gets cut off and, you know, whatever, in terms of lawyers and all the other industries of which this is set to disrupt. Like this is the backbone, the chips that are going to power much of the software revolution that will come on the back. I was just going to raise those concerns because you had an announcement two days ago that Google, in spite of earning record profits, is still laying off thousands of employees, thousands more employees

after already laying off 12,000. And so that shows you the way that this is further concentrating wealth in the hands of a very few people. So even the companies that are most directly participating and most directly benefiting from this AI boom. I mean, in some ways, they're also the ones that are first to shed employees because of the gains and the technological advances that are being made here with AI. So I am really concerned about that. I think you can already see those developments happening right now in real time. So it's great for people who have significant stockholdings So it's great for people who have significant stock holdings. It's great for people who are at the top of these companies who don't

feel like their jobs are at risk. But for a lot of white collar workers, I'm sure they should and probably are looking on at these developments with a lot of concern. And we're about to talk more about AI and what the hell's going on there. Stay tuned. Because there are a lot of other concerns, obviously, about the development of AI and whether we as a society and as humanity are ready for it and certainly whether our political system is ready for it, to which the answer is certainly no. We may have great chips, but if the programmers aren't good, as we'll show you with Google, there's not a lot you can do. Have you ever thought about going voiceover?

I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be Boy Sober, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.

It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it.

Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us.

Now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead. But I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair. Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous.

But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret, even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back, or does she keep the family's terrible secret? Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go to the next part here because this is like the perfect thing. As S&P 500 pops, as the tech sector continues to boom, NVIDIA earnings and all of that. There is a huge crisis for food affordability here in the United States, best exemplified by the CEO of Kellogg, who is now pushing cereal for dinner as a way for cash-strapped families to feed themselves as they struggle in paying for the grocery store. Here's what he had to say. The cereal category has always been quite

affordable, and it tends to be a great destination when consumers are under pressure. So some of the things that we're doing is first messaging. We got to reach the consumer where they are. So we're advertising about cereal for dinner. If you think about the cost of cereal for a family versus what they might otherwise do, that's going to be much more affordable. The other places that we like to go is we talk about making sure we have the right pack at the right price in the right place. So having a different size pack that will have a different price point, that will take some pressure off the consumer while they're shopping. So those are some of the things that we're doing. But in general, the cereal category is a place that a lot of folks might come to because the price of a bowl of cereal with milk and with

fruit is less than a dollar. So you can imagine why a consumer under pressure might find that to be a good place to go. Right. I'm all for innovation and marketing, but the idea of having cereal for dinner, is there the potential for that to land the wrong way? We don't think so. In fact, it's landing really well right now carl when we look at all of our data of course we would know that breakfast cereal is the number one choice for in-home consumption we understand that for breakfast it turns out that over 25 percent of our consumption is outside the breakfast occasion a lot of it's at dinner and that that occasion continues to grow as well as a snacking occasion but um cereal for dinner is something that is probably more on trend now,

and we would expect to continue as that consumer is under pressure. As that consumer is under pressure. Anyone else catch the palatial Florida arc? I could spot it from a mile away. You think Gary's giving his kids cereal for dinner? You see that palm tree? Don't think so. You see that palm tree in the background?

Yeah, that's what a man who, in the winter, is fleeing south and has the ability to have second homes and to have nice little travel of the rest of us. Yeah, I don't think Gary's eating Froot Loops for dinner personally. He's probably eating a fruit platter, you know, as dessert. Let's go and put this up there. We wonder why we have an obesity crisis and a diabetes crisis in this country. Just for everyone to know, you don't eat cereal for dinner. I don't even want my kids eating cereal for breakfast.

No, I agree. One of the most horrifying places in the entire grocery store is the cereal aisle. When you walk down the cereal aisle and you see like cookies in small form or like Sour Patch Kids cereal. I'm like, what did we do? Where did we go wrong as a country? It makes me absolutely hate capitalism and people like this. Let's put this up there on the screen just to kind of exemplify what he's talking about. Wall Street Journal has some great charts, the one that we have right there in front of you for

those who are watching, that shows you that the spending share of disposable income on food is now at a 30-year high. This is especially important because it encompasses not just groceries, but also dining out. As people can see, we've actually been on a decade-long increase in price of dining out. Some of that is derivative of higher cost options, but a lot of it also has to do with inputs. It plunged in 2020 as a result of the COVID pandemic, but quickly spiked to an all-time high there. Even in terms of for dining out, it's at a very, very high. For groceries, what you could see if you combine both all food and groceries, you could see that we're at the three-decade high, and it's taking up far more of a percentage of

Americans' income than in a very, very long time. As they say, too, quote, relief is not arriving soon. Restaurant and food company executives are still, quote, grappling with rising labor costs and some ingredients that are only getting more expensive, and consumers, they said, will find ways to cope. If you look historically after periods of inflation, there's really no period where you could point to where food prices go back down. They tend to be sticky, meaning this is here and it is very here to stay. I guess those ways to cope include food loops for dentists. Well, really what it is, and this is why it's sad, is if you look, it's the people who have disposable income, their consumption patterns have not changed. They're eating the exact same out at dining.

They're eating the exact same things at the grocery store. It is Denny's, Wendy's, and all other restaurant change that are now telling their investors that their guest count has fallen precipitously throughout 2022 and 2023. Why? Because their customers are the ones who have lower incomes and or for whom would, you know, the occasional customer or somebody who's going to a lower cost option of these type of chain restaurants, their treat, quote unquote, is now gone. It's been cut out of the budget. So if you combine gas and cost of living and then grocery prices now replacing that, it's just taking a lot of enjoyment, whatever little enjoyment was there at the lower end of the cost spectrum is going away. And I think that's actually the tragic

situation. People in New York City are going out to eat. They're mostly fine. At the higher end of the spectrum, yes, their prices have increased by 25%. But if you compare their overall wages and the disposable income that they have, they're just eating the cost. It's the people who can't afford to eat the cost where their quality of life, that goes down significantly when your food price goes up by 25, 30%. Yeah, it's the people who are working in those restaurants who can no longer afford to, you know, to eat out even somewhere modest like a Wendy's or a Denny's at this point. And Jeff Stein actually had a good piece a while back. We talked to him a little bit, but it's just a reminder of why grocery prices continue to be so high. You can put this up on

the screen. He really dives in. You can put this up on the screen. He really dives in. Jeff does a great job with this stuff. His headline here is inflation has fallen. Why are groceries still so expensive? He's also been visiting food pantries who across the board are reporting that demand for food pantry and food aid is at record highs and continues to grow. So there's clearly a lot of struggle among the working poor, the working class, and the out and out poor that is reflected in those numbers. But he tracks, it's a lot of different factors. I think what you pointed to, Sagar, the fact that when food prices go up, what grocery store or what Kellogg's brand CEO is going to say, you know what, I can

afford to bring it back. They're not going to do that because they're greedy. They're just going to eat up the extra profit margin. And that is part of what is going on here. There's actually a White House Council of Economic Advisors report that found that grocery store profit margins are higher than their pre-pandemic levels. That means they're gouging you. That means prices could be lower, but instead of lowering prices for consumers, they're just going to keep them where they are because they can justify it because prices have been high, and they're going to suck up the extra profit. That's part of it. There have also been so many climate disasters that have upended a lot of food production. So that has factored in. You've continued to have some supply

chain disruptions, even post-pandemic. The fallout from that continues to reverberate. So that's part of it. So there's a lot that goes into it. But one of those pieces continues to be effectively greenflation. One other thing he points out is a group called the Groundwork Collaborative, which is a left-leaning think tank. They found that a lot of the rise in grocery prices, about 30%, is focused in five categories of food that are particularly vulnerable to supply chain shocks. That includes beef, chicken, fruits, vegetables, and snacks. So a lot of the sort of, you know, the core, like the things you actually want to feed your family, not Froot Loops, are some of the things that have been the most vulnerable to supply chain shocks and have contributed to continued high prices there. And people wonder

why people still don't feel great about the economy, why they're still struggling, why they're still giving Joe Biden a very low approval rating. I think part of it is just because they have no confidence in him. Even when things do get better, they have no confidence that he had anything to do with it or that he could continue the trend and trajectory given his, you know, his age and his limited capabilities. But in addition, you still have numbers like this that show people are really struggling even just to be able to feed themselves and feed their families, let alone provide any of those like little bonus luxuries that make life. And this is so obvious to me because they're like, Crystal, but didn't you know that inflation slowed from nine this is so obvious to me because they're like,

Crystal, but didn't you know that inflation slowed from nine to three this quarter? I'm like, guys, that's not how people experience inflation. Go to the grocery store. They're like, why is this 30 percent more expensive than five years ago? And then they're like, oh, guess we're not going to Denny's on Sunday like we usually used to, you know, if we meet up after whatever. I mean, and that's one of those where, you know, you pack lunch for your kids or you pack lunch for them as you're going on a road trip, even though in the past you might've been like, maybe we'll stop somewhere. And that's, it's not fun. It's not nice. You know, it removes a lot of the spontaneity in life. People at the higher income spectrum, they are totally capable of absorbing that cost. People who are not, when you really have to think, you know, that is what really inhibits a lot of the enjoyment for a lot of people. And I think that's, I think, you know,

really devastating for people. And it's why, you know, they're not just going to take these explanations about build back better or whatever. Seriously, I don't think they should. Let's put this finally up here, just show you about, again, how devastating some of these numbers can be. American credit card debt, this is just from a few days ago, has now hit a record $1.13 trillion. Credit card debt has increased actually by $50 billion just in the fourth quarter of 2023. A lot of that is holiday spending. And they show that it's actually a 5% increase just from the previous quarter in the number of debt that's been accumulated. The data currently shows that you've risen a total of $212 billion just in the fourth quarter of 2023. And if you look at the quarterly report on household debt

and credit, Americans are strapped more than frankly they ever really have been in the past. The other issue is that the delinquencies across all age groups, people who are unable to pay them or missing payments are actually high across all of them. Borrowers, it says, in particular between the ages of 30 and 39, are missing their payments at especially fast rates. That's also very devastating because those are the exact people who that's the age when you are supposed to be thinking about being able to buy a house, start a family, any of those. And if you are in a mountain of credit card debt, you may put off those decisions.

It's one of those where it's really sad, you know, just to give away some of my trashy television taste. I was watching one of these episodes of Love is Blind, latest season. I love the franchise. You and my daughter got me into that show. I have to say it is really great. Shout out to Nick Thompson from season two, who is a fan of this show, by the way. But there's a sad conversation that's happening between two, I'm not going to give away too much of it or who they are, where they're like, well, you know, he's like, I really want to retire. I really want to be frugal. You know, if we have a kid, you know, I'm not so sure that that's what he's like. He's like obsessed with the idea of not accidentally having a child in the next five years. And he's purely talking about it from money perspective because he's like, I grew up in a very poor household and I was not provided X, Y, and Z. He's like, I will not do that. You can see the emotion.

It's causing some relationship tension. And I was watching him like, this is terrible. This guy is like, frankly, torpedoing a relationship because he's so afraid of having a child accidentally and not being able to afford it because he did not have a good upbringing himself. I mean, look, you'd call it responsible or whatever. But for me, I'm like, that is just a perfect example of like how these macroeconomic conditions have huge impacts on people's lives that they may not even connect to something bigger. Yeah, no, it's so true. And that sense of precarity, that stress that comes from having to count every penny, you know, and really like live day to day and dollar to dollar, the way that weighs on your entire life is, you know, it's a very difficult

thing. And people are not wrong to feel like Joe Biden, I mean, he's not even promising anything in the next, what's his economic plan going forward? He doesn't have one. Hasn't announced anything, any goals, you know, for the next term. We're here to get reelected. So people aren't wrong and they're not crazy to feel like even though many of the economic numbers have improved, you know, unemployment is low. Wages are going up. Certainly the stock market is doing just fine as we were just discussing. But that isn't the totality of how people are experiencing the economy. And they're not crazy to look at their day-to-day reality and say, this is not

working for me. And I don't have hope that it's going to work for me or my kids for the future either. Absolutely right. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships.

I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it.

Listen to voiceover on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John, who's not the father.

Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the okay. Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. Now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair.

Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous. But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret, even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret? Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small

ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain.

I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's move on. We already teased this, AI. This is the funniest story that we've seen in so long. It electrified the internet yesterday. Google has had to pause AI-made images, quote, after race inaccuracies. Let's put this up there on the screen. Let's just say that the new Gemini AI system is lacking in historical accuracy if you ask it to create images of, frankly, mundane things. This was very quickly spotted by the internet after it was given basic

prompts. So guys, let's go ahead and give people a taste, if we can, and roll some of these next items. Some of my favorites here. Here's a portrait of a founding father of America. It shows a Native American, a black George Washington. Actually, I don't even think that's George Washington because that's actually a red coat. So that's a whole other conversation. A racially ambiguous founding father with a wig, and then a Chinese man also in a dress up from colonial times. Crystal, you remarked that this literally looks like Lee Manuel Miranda's Hamilton cast, and you could not be more correct. The other ones, which are incredible here, is create an image of a pope. It shows a Indian woman actually clad in popal regalia.

Then a black man who is similarly donning whatever that pope papal headdress is. That one's, I guess, more plausible. There are, you know, African cardinals. Here is an image of a Viking. It shows two Vikings who are black with dreadlocks so i'm pretty sure that one is not historically accurate let's go to the next one this is another uh personal favorite of mine it says depict a european family and it says well while i understand your desire to see representations of families i am unable to fulfill your request for depicting

a white family to create inclusive and respectful content. Generating images based on specific racial or ethnic characteristics can perpetuate harmful stereotypes and biases. Then you ask, depict a Chinese family. It says, sure, here's an image showing diverse depictions of a Chinese family. You know, I guess they're probably forgetting that China itself has a lot of racial and ethnic populations, but of course that's not nuanced enough for them. Let's go to the next one. And let's take a look. This one was actually created by our producer, Mac. And the prompt, I swear to God, that he gave was create a European family. And what it created here is a white woman who's in a wheelchair, a black man who is missing a leg, and then a dog who, if we are all paying attention here, the dog only has three legs.

Dog also missing a leg. All three of these European race-select family are also all disabled for some reason. And just to give everyone an idea of how much better some of the competitors are, let's go to the next one. This is from Midjourney, which is a software actually that we use sometimes for our thumbnails, which is just far more accurate. It just says, create a European family. Here, this is a period pieces showing Eiffel Tower or whatever traditional dress.

It looks more like 1940s or early 1900s type images. Because it's so much more visually interesting too. Exactly. Look how much more colorful, they don't even try and be like photorealistic per se. They look more like portraits. It's just more accurate. So this is just to demonstrate, like we've got a long way to go.

And this is Google. I mean, think about how much money Google has poured into their AI program. And it's hilarious because they had to apologize their lead developer for creating these, for, you know, having all of these images go completely viral. You don't really get to, you know, I mean, sure you will get a second chance, but this is, this is just bad. I think they panicked, Crystal, from the Sora AI release. And they're like, we've got to rush something out. And they had all of this stuff that had been, clearly they had some weird PC stuff programmed in, which has somehow generated

the stupidest results that are known. And now they're apologizing to everybody. And had to pull it. Yeah, they pulled it. They pulled the product. That's embarrassing. That is really embarrassing. I really want to know the backstory here. Yeah. Like, I want to know how this happened. And the thing with AI generation, though, is that in some ways you never will know because even the creators, you know, they're feeding in all of this information. So it makes the output very unpredictable. But I want to know what, like, you know, how they set the wokeness to 11 here.

You ask for a pope and you ask for the founding father. It's just it's hilariously absurd and certainly shows the way, as you said, Sagar, earlier that, you know, the technology is not independent of the ability of the creators and their particular views of the world. So here's some interesting takes I saw from people who actually work in tech. Yeah. Of how this happened. Of how something like this happened. Paul Graham is kind of like a, it's kind of difficult to describe. He's like a godfather of tech.

He was one of the people who founded YC, Y Combinator, invested in a lot of the early, you know, very successful companies. He says, quote, the ridiculous images that were generated by Gemini are not an anomaly. They are a self-portrait of Google's bureaucratic corporate culture.

And he points out that the bigger your cash cow, the worse your culture can get without driving you out of business. My other good friend- Maybe they shouldn't have laid off some of those thousands of people. Maybe they needed those folks. So my friend Sriram Krishnan, who works over at A16Z, he says this, on Google and Gemini, having been part of organizations where there was an implicit progressive political leaning, I can see why it would have been very hard for anyone to point out the obvious. No employee can easily file a bug as you would have to wade through layers of policy and unspoken but understood cultural rules. No one can be the kid from the emperor's new clothes as the kid

would probably have been instantly thrown into prison or in this case, dragged before HR or put into a penalty box. That actually does kind of make sense where somebody programmed this stuff in and didn't actually think about it at scale. And then the programmers were probably too afraid to be like, hey, just, you know, it's not really creating proper images of white people. And they're like, well, you know, we'd rather just ship it and let something like this happen. And then it becomes like a total controversy. I can see something like that. The more likely thing is it's a combination of all three, bad bureaucratic culture, not enough checks, and just being terrified at being beaten by open AI. I think the open AI piece is probably the biggest one.

Yeah, that they didn't. They're upset. They really didn't fully test it. Exactly. Before they very clearly, they did not fully test it. of thing makes some sense to me because if you're an individual employee of Google and you realize this is squirrely, this is not going the way it should, you do run a risk if you're the one who's like, we got to have some white people as founding fathers. Or just like, hey, it's not accurately representing founding fathers. Why is there a Cherokee guy who is included in this? But there's

no risk to you to staying silent if you weren't the one that created the problem. And all the blowback is going to fall on someone else. Then from a just bureaucratic safety standpoint, your path of least resistance is just to keep your mouth shut and be like, well, we'll see how this goes. Or maybe they really hated the guy who was going to, like, take the fall on this. They're like, they're like, wait and let's see if Johnny's still the golden boy at Google after this comes out. Well, one of the reasons why it's also really embarrassing for Google is Larry Page, you know, according to Elon Musk and others and most press reports, you know, the founder of Google, former CEO, he's been obsessed with AI for, like, decades. Like, he's, Google has poured untold billions and probably hundreds of billions of dollars into AI development. And something that's actually given me kind of hope is that if you look at Microsoft, Facebook, Google, the big tech company, Amazon and others,

none of them were the innovators in AI. It was open AI. It was a company formed in 2015 that came frankly out of nowhere and revolutionized the entire sector. Now, don't get me wrong. Microsoft has now bought a stake or whatever in OpenAI. So they've co-opted it. But the fact is that the real innovation, it didn't come out of the big tech houses. And so maybe it's because of culture, bureaucracy, and all of that, something like this. I would hope that that's more indicative of the future, that it will actually come from the startups. And that's kind of what's floating the NVIDIA boom and the idea,

kind of why Silicon Valley is having a resurgence right now in San Francisco, is they really believe like the next Google, Facebook and all of that really could come and instead not out of the big tech companies themselves. I don't know. I don't have that hope. I mean, like you said, it's already almost over. Like Microsoft already snatched up the open AI tech. You know, the big tech players are already so established that anything that has any promise at a startup level is just going to get bought up and sucked into one of the existing monopolies with, you know, these sorts of results. And I mean, these results are just hilarious and silly and of no real consequence, right? The terror is that

the other, if they are shipping a product that is this manifestly bad in obvious ways, you can be assured that they are not thinking through whatsoever the like long term societal implications that have potentially much more serious ramifications. Because, you know, their interest is just in how do I make a buck today? How do I stay in front of the competition? How do I spike the share price so that I get mine at the end of the day? And that's a terrifying set of incentives. If it can go this wrong on something that's so obvious right in front of your face, just imagine the other things of consequence that they probably already are screwing up. Yeah, you're absolutely right. All right, guys, very interesting moment over on CNN when Chris

Wallace reveals that a top Democrat told him they are freaking out about Biden's standing in the critical state of Michigan. Let's take a listen to that. I was talking to a top Michigan Democrat over the weekend who said, you know, it's not just Arab Americans. They're young people, they're people of color, blacks and Hispanics, who have a lot of doubts about Joe Biden. And, you know, where another candidate like Dean Phillips might not be able to put on much of a show against Biden. This Michigan Democratic official was saying, I'm worried about uncommitted. You know, it's really a vote of no confidence or lack of confidence in Biden. And this official was worried that it could do well enough in the primary a week from tomorrow to embarrass Joe Biden. So that primary, of course, is coming up

next week. And, Sagar, this is something we have covered before. There is now an organized effort backed by a number of Democratic officials, including Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, to instead of voting for Joe Biden in the primary, to vote uncommitted, specifically to voice dissent over his unconditional support for Israel. And the fear here isn't that, you know, uncommitted is going to beat Joe Biden in the state of Michigan in the primary. The fear is that the demonstration of this anti-Joe Biden commitment specifically over this policy could really carry over into the general election. And that in a lot of senses, it may be too late, even if they change policy now, to win a lot of these folks back. Now, the suspicion isn't that they're going to switch

over and vote, at least not in large numbers for Donald Trump, although some of them may do that as well, but that they'll either stay home or they'll notch another protest vote in the fall, either for, you know, another like right-hand candidate or one of the third party candidates that may be on the ballot. There's actually a big New York Times piece this morning as well, breaking down these concerns, which is like, you know, activists have been warning of this and people on the left have been warning of this from very, very early on. And the polls immediately reflected a devastating impact, especially among Arab Americans in the state of Michigan and elsewhere. This was completely ignored and hand waved away of basically like, ah, they'll get over it when they remember it's Donald Trump.

And now they're finally waking up to the reality that this could really be a problem for them. Yeah. There's been a lot of reporting behind the scenes that Representative Debbie Dingell from Michigan has been really pushing the White House to change course. The reason I would take her very seriously is she's the lady who told Hillary in 20, she was like, you're going to lose Michigan. She's like, you're getting creamed. And the Hillary campaign was like, you don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. She was the one who was saying, you're getting creamed. And the Hillary campaign was like, you don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, she was the one who was saying, you need to come here. Yeah, she's like, you need to get here now. She's like, I promise you that you have a big problem on the ground. And given her, I believe her husband served until he was

like 80 something years old. So anyway, they've got a lot of ties to the state, and I believe them whenever they say that there's a problem. Yeah. This isn't just some, this isn't like an activist necessarily with skin in the game. This is just a pure political operator who's pushing the White House. And they're like, you don't understand. You have a serious problem here on the ground. You need to address it. And for them, they haven't done anything about it. The mayor of Dearborn, who we interviewed on this show, also had a New York Times op-ed, which again, you know, this is the paper that people in Washington, D.C. are obsessed with. So the fact that they published this op-ed is really a big deal. We can put this up on the

screen. He is also making the case to vote uncommitted. He says Dearborn is not alone in calling for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza. A poll conducted last fall found that 66 percent of Americans and a whopping 80 percent of Democrats want a ceasefire. However, the president or elective representatives in Congress seem content to ignore the will of the American people. He also says, I, like many of my fellow Americans, cannot in good conscience support the continuation of a genocide. This has weighed heavy on my heart, particularly as the presidential primary election in Michigan

has drawn near. It is for that reason that I will be checking the box for uncommitted on my presidential primary ballot next Tuesday. In doing so, I am choosing hope, the hope that Mr. Biden will listen, the hope that he and those in Democratic leadership will choose the salvation of our democracy over aiding and abetting Mr. Netanyahu's war crimes, the hope that our families in Gaza will have food in their bellies, clean water to drink, access to health care and the internet, and above all else, a just state in which they have the right to determine their own future. Dearborn being a majority Arab American state. So the fact that their elected mayor, who is a Democrat, is also saying I'm voting uncommitted is a real

signal of trouble for them. But as Chris Wallace pointed out, this goes way beyond just Arab Americans in the state, which alone would be an issue in Michigan. But we're talking about a whole range of key Democratic constituencies, which are not just at odds with, but furious and disgusted by Joe Biden's stance here. So there's a new Michigan poll that just came out, just to give you a sense here, put this up on the screen. So 74% of Democratic voters say they support a ceasefire. Only 12% say that they support Israel's operations in Gaza. 12% of Democrats back the Joe Biden position with regard to Israel. I mean, that is astonishing. And then put this next one up on the screen that shows you the comparison here. Among 18 to 34-year-olds, Biden's favorability, 32%. Compare that to Michigan's Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer, just to show you they're not like just pissed off at everybody. Her favorability among the same group is almost reversed. It's 61%. So 32% favorability and 60%, close to 60%

unfavorability for Joe Biden among this group. And it's almost exactly reversed for Whitmer, who is 61% favorable, 33% unfavorable. I think that demonstrates that it is not just a limited, this one narrow demographic group of voters that they have a problem with. They have a big problem. And so I remember that Politico piece that said that they were looking for alternative pathways to victory in Michigan that basically didn't rely on the Arab American population. Well, what you're not going to rely on young people. You're not going to rely on anybody who's like, you know, even a little bit left of the center of the democratic party. Black voters are expressing this as a problem for them because they're looking at all this funding of overseas conflicts and

saying, what about my neighborhood? What about my job? What about my livelihood? I mean, that was what we heard from some of the RFP-focused group voters, and they are 100% correct about that. And that's a message that, you know, that extends beyond just the Democratic coalition into also how independents are viewing our unconditional support for these unending conflicts. Yeah. Look, I think it's very important for us to pay attention to this, too, just because, again, everybody thinks like, oh, well, they'll come in the end. They may just not vote. And I don't think people understand how important that is. So there was a decent analysis done back in

2016 where if just the same number of black voters a decent analysis done back in 2016, where if just the same number of black voters in Detroit had showed up in 2016, as opposed to 2012 or 2008, then Hillary would have easily won the state of Michigan. But they just didn't come out to vote. They didn't like Hillary. Well, the same scenario plays out here, except we're talking about possibly the same demographic, but as well as young voters and Arab Americans, where Trump only won by 10,000 votes. Joe Biden did not win by very many votes in the state of Michigan. If we're looking also across the industrial Midwest, this could have the same impact in the state of Pennsylvania or any other place where you're relying on very, very slim margins

to put you across the finish line, combined with the overall economic depression. So at a certain point, what does alternative path look like? Like Trump has rolled up these white collar or these, sorry, these white working class voters to a historic degree. I don't see them changing course at this point. They either may come out to vote for Trump enthusiastically, some may stay home, but to cross over and to vote Biden, you know, in the current economy, like I don't see it. I don't see how they could possibly do it. So let me give you another warning sign here that is, you know, not just about Israel, but is about a dissatisfaction across the board with Joe Biden, concerns about his age, disgust with the unconditional support for Israel, upset with the economy. You can put all of this into this basket. So in 2020, Biden won roughly 91% of black voters, 91%. A new Quinnipiac,

this is a national poll, has him at 56% among black voters. Trump expands his meager support somewhat to 15 percent. RFK Jr., 13 percent. Cornel West, 13 percent. Now, listen, do I think that's what it's going to look like at the end of the day? No, because as we've discussed before, oftentimes support for third party candidates falls off as you get closer to Election Day. And there's a realization of like, all right, really, it's coming down to one of these two dudes. So I got to pick between the choices that are most likely to actually win. And no guarantees also that RFK Jr. and Cornel West are actually on the ballot in a majority of states. So a lot of caveats there. But this is a flashing red light for Biden to go from 91% support to 56% support, barely winning a majority

of African-American voters across the country. I mean, he is in very, very bad shape. Yeah. And that just underscores that previous point that I made perfectly about how you only need it in a few areas and you can lose maybe 1%, 3%, 5%. If you're losing 40%. That's it. Game over. Game over. Republicans have always said that. They're like, you know, if we just won 85% of the black vote instead of like, or sorry, if Democrats just won 85% instead of 92%, we would win all 50 states in the entire country.

And I don't think people really understand like how crazy that margin actually does work, especially in the deep south. But that's a great example of how bad things can get. Yeah. No, I always have to put the other side out there just to cover our bases, which is that Republicans have their own problems. Donald Trump is also very much hated, has tremendously turned off suburban voters. We talked yesterday about this insane Alabama Supreme Court ruling that embryos are children. You know, this is probably a position that's held by like 3% of the American public that they would support. There's a push behind the scenes among sort of like the Trump administration in waiting

to use the Comstock Act to do this sort of like blanket national abortion ban. These things are wildly unpopular. Donald Trump is wildly unpopular. He's in all sorts of legal trouble. Like they have problems too. So at the end of the day, you know, I still think it's basically a jump ball. I would today say that Trump probably has the edge, but it's not written in stone. But the fact that Democrats have decided that they are just all in for this guy who is so much weaker than even just like pick your most

random standard off the shelf Democrat in the entire country would probably be 10 points superior to where Joe Biden is. And you just, I mean, it's insane. It is absolutely insane where the Democratic Party has put themselves at this point. And it is not the fault of these voters who are pissed off about your policies and disgusted with your policies. It is your fault for enacting those policies and for sticking with this dude that 86% of the country says is too old to be president another term. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver,

the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship

that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it.

Listen to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son,

even though it was promised to us. Now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair. Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous.

But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret, even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret?

Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey

Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of the policies that have been enacted here, it's been a big week for the U.S. running cover for Israeli atrocities, whether it was at the International Court of Justice, whether it was

at the U.N. And now you have a Republican congressman truly going fully genocidal and saying all that the kids in Gaza should be killed in response to an activist who is pressing him. Let's take a listen to that. I've seen the footage of children's bodies. That's my taxpayer dollars. I'm going to bomb those kids. So I think we should kill them all. If that makes you feel better. Everybody. So this is Congressman Andrew Ogles. The activist there says, So I think we should kill them all if that makes you feel better. Everybody, come on. So this is Congressman Andrew Ogles. The activist there says, so you're going to bomb these kids? And he says, I think we should kill them all if that makes you feel better.

Yeah, this is another good example of how some of the most insane rhetoric on Israel can often come from the evangelical community. If we'll remember, I was just looking it up in terms of Tennessee and in terms of where he's coming from and in terms of some of the background. It's not altogether surprising because they can often be the most psychotic in their support. And it's also just really crazy. And I don't really understand why a lot of Israelis put up with it. I'm like, you know that they support you and like to the hilt because they believe that what the apocalypse is coming and this is going to be like the ground of the second coming. Like if you really think about some of the reasons, super creepy and you're almost a weird pawn in their game. Fine. I'll put that to the side.

But Andy Ogles, Brian Mast, you know, this coalition, frankly, Mike Johnson. Oh, absolutely. You know, a lot of this is about religious belief. And, you know, whenever religion is concerned and you're singing with that instead of national interests and other things, that's how you get to a place. My other thing was I was like, I wonder if he was just saying it to troll. But I don't think so. I think like maybe he was trying to piss them off. It's disgusting to say it either way. I mean, and if your religious belief leads you to a place of saying,

murder all the children in a place, that isn't, you know, I'm not really Christian, but I was raised around a lot of Christians. And that is not my understanding of the teachings of Jesus Christ personally. But, you know, I could be wrong about this. You guys can check out the Bible and see whether that is consistent with the teachings that you may find there. The other piece of this is Rashida Tlaib was literally censored for echoing a rally chant calling for equal rights for Palestinians and Israelis from the river to the sea. That was a subject of mass media coverage. Every Democratic politician was forced to, you know, answer for her and condemn her. And many of her colleagues did so. This man outright calls for the massacre of all of the Palestinian children of the Gaza Strip. And I mean, basically crickets from the media and certainly from the

political class. So the blatant double standard here is really astonishing. But it is not only American congressmen who have been catching a lot of attention for their comments with regards to our great allies here, Israel. May Golan, who is the Israeli Minister of Social Equality and Women's Advancement, so she is in the Netanyahu cabinet, made some absolutely shocking remarks this week as well. Let's take a listen to what she has to say. I'll read the translation here.

She says, I'm personally proud of the ruins of Gaza and that every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did when their families were murdered. Personally proud of the ruins of Gaza, she says. Every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did. Now, keep in mind here that Israel is facing a deadline to respond to the ICJ injunctions against them that both include, you got to cut out the acts that led us to determine you were plausibly committing genocide. And you have to stop statements exactly like these that are incitement to genocide. And you have to punish and hold accountable people who continue to make these statements.

And here on the eve of that deadline is this cabinet minister saying that she is proud of the complete destruction of the Gaza Strip. Our own State Department was forced to respond to these insane and outrageous comments. Let's take a listen to how Matt Miller handled this particular moment of propaganda on trying to run cover for the Israeli government. This is not someone extreme. It's not smutrate. It's not bin Ghaffir. This is in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's party. MR PRICE, Said, I would encourage you to take a close look at the comments the Secretary made in Tel Aviv at a press conference two weeks ago where he talked specifically about the effects of dehumanizing language and why it's important that no one on either side of this conflict dehumanize anyone else, that will continue to be our position?

But if the government and Knesset and Israel don't want the establishment of a Palestinian state? MR PRICE So again, you have heard the Secretary speak to this, that what we will do is continue to lay out what we think the best choice for the Government of Israel to make and the best choice for the government of Israel to make and the best choice for the Israeli people to make. Ultimately, Israel will have to make its own decisions as every sovereign country does. Israel will have to make its own decisions. But Sagar, of course, we are so directly implicated in this since we are providing

so much aid every year and continue to expedite shipments of these weapons, continue to block UN Security Council resolutions, continue to argue at the ICJ on Israel's behalf when they weren't even willing to go and defend themselves. But don't worry, the United States of America is there to defend them from allegations of illegality and crimes at the ICJ. That's what really cuts it from them, is that at the same time, we're like, well, they can do whatever they want. But at the same time, our entire political system is revolving around their war and like what they're doing in terms of trying to ship them money. And we have this example here of the U.S. defense of

Israel at the ICJ, specifically, you know, using our clout and our sovereignty to try to protect them. Here's what they had to say. Any movement towards Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza requires consideration of Israel's very real security needs. We were all reminded of those security needs on October 7, and they persist. Regrettably, those needs have been ignored by many of the participants in asserting how the court should consider the questions. They have asked you to try to resolve the whole of the dispute between the parties through an advisory opinion addressed to questions focusing on the acts of only one party. The United States disagrees with

that, that this approach would be consistent with the court's role within the United Nations or the established UN framework for achieving peace through negotiations. So that's what you were just talking about, Crystal. That was a choice by the U.S. government to send somebody and to do that. We could have stayed out of it if we wanted to. But, you know, to specifically go and argue on another person's behalf, you're choosing a side. And it's like, when you choose a side, then you are going to become accountable. Absolutely. And here's the thing, too, that was particularly outrageous about this moment at the ICJ. I did a monologue about this earlier in the week to set the context for what these particular hearings were about. This is a separate matter from the South African

case against Israel alleging genocide. This was even predates October 7th. They're looking for a hearing and a ruling from the ICJ to determine that Israel's occupation is illegal in part because, you know, one of the laws around an occupation is it can't be permanent. And you have, you know, government after government expanding the illegal settlements. Every single government since the 70s has expanded the settlements, increased the number of illegal settlers. You have government backing for these violent settlers who are going in and pushing through violence Palestinians off of their land. Part of why the October 7th military response from the Israelis was so piss poor is because they had relocated IDF soldiers from the area around Gaza in order

to aid and abet these violent settlers pushing Palestinians off their land. This was already one of the most violent years prior to October 7th with regards to attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank in particular. So that's what this case was about. Now, previously, the U.S. position has been that the settlements are illegal. And so for us to then go and argue and dance around, I mean, there was all this dancing around to try to avoid calling the settlements illegal, to try to avoid calling the occupation illegal, really arguing these kind of legal technicalities of like, well, we just don't think this is the place to have these arguments. It really is disgraceful, and especially in the context of what is happening in the Gaza Strip right now. So the idea, oh, Israel can just do whatever they want. Well, we are so directly

implicated here because of all the actions we take on their behalf. And our little, well, we told them not to dehumanize Palestinians is so utterly pathetic when we are completely unwilling to do anything to back up our words with any kind of action. is directly at odds with a two-state solution, which is supposedly the policy position of the Biden administration, which is actually part of what Matt Mueller was responding to there. We also want to keep our eyes on a potentially devastating situation. Put this up on the screen. This was a good analysis written up in Haaretz. Apparently, U.S. officials are worried that Ramadan may hold the, quote, perfect storm, leading to a regional blow up. The subhead here, Netanyahu's capitulation to his far right coalition partners over Muslim access to the Temple Mount during the holy month is just one of many factors sparking concern that a major

escalation is imminent. So you have these hyper religious hyper flashpoints that always create provocations, especially coming directly from Ben-Gavir with regard to Ramadan. So you have that. You also have Netanyahu and co. setting a deadline for their invasion of Rafah, that border town, you know, with all this 1.3 million Palestinians pressed up against the border with Egypt right there They set a Ramadan deadline for that as well And it's hard to you know, you can't really wrap your head around how provocative this is in the broader region and what kind of explosion this could all lead to not to mention of course the Suffering that continues for the Palestinians and the way that they will be further impacted here. I'm very worried about the Ramadan thing. I mean, yeah, as you said, it's difficult to

contextualize for people who aren't really familiar with Islamic culture. But to just say it's the holy month is almost frankly an understatement in terms of how seriously it's taken. And if there is an idea, there's also a lot of ideas, you know, even within Islam about Ramadan and about like sacrifice and working on behalf of other Muslims, which takes on a lot more extra significance. So anyway, if there is like a mass slaughter that happens during Ramadan, A, it is one that is very impactful. That would be for a lot of the Palestinian population. But really B, what I'd be the most worried about is that it would ignite some sort of broader regional conflict because populations in many of these countries would not accept those type of images during the holy month. And it would

really instigate for a lot of these people, the Gulf monarchies and other places in particular, to try and push their governments either into the war, same with the Egyptians as well. So I would not underestimate that. I really wouldn't. Indeed. And you have, you know, psycho coalition partners like Ben-Gavir, who is just looking to for provocation, looking to provoke tension specifically with regard to the Temple Mount. He has apparently ascended the Temple Mount three different times since becoming a cabinet minister. Each visit earned the ire of the international community, endangered the highly fraught status quo at the Jerusalem holy site. So you couple that with an already, you know, tense doesn't begin to describe the situation and you are, as they put it, perhaps heading towards a perfect storm. And it's important to keep in mind too, just how horrific the conditions

already are on the ground. There are multiple reports now of social order basically collapsing at this point as the population faces starvation, which has become endemic, especially in northern Gaza. So even the aid that is coming in is oftentimes getting looted. The drivers of the aid convoys are being attacked. Let's take a look at a CNN report on what is happening there. Gaza's food problem writ large. Hunger trumping fear of Israeli bullets. News of a coming aid convoy carrying flour into the north of Gaza, converging crowds to plunder it. We came here and the Israelis started opening fire on us and we hid between the buildings, Hamza Nahr says. When the fire stops, we come out again and

wait for the flower. The IDF say they will look into this incident, but say they can't rule out Hamas shooting. Desperation leading to looting, a growing problem in northern Gaza. We're talking tens and tens of thousands for, you know, five, 10 trucks. It's the food that it is getting through is just a drop in the ocean. It's not nearly enough.

Theft so bad, the principal UN food supplier, the WFP, declaring Tuesday it will stop deliveries to the north, compounding the already dire conditions. 15% of children under two have malnutrition. It's now at an emergency level. According to international standards, once you're over 15% for acute malnutrition, that's a nutritional crisis and an emergency. Even before the World Food Programme cancelled food deliveries, children venting fear shared by adults, abandonment by the world. No food, no water, no medicine. Our message to the world, shame on you. How dare you put your children while we eat animal food? Are you waiting our death?

So a devastating report there. And I believe it was in this report as well, where they interviewed a doctor who said actually the number one condition that they are now treating at hospitals is malnutrition. That's where we are. CNN also caught Israel firing on an aid convoy. That's something that the New York Times has reported on as well. Let's put this up on the screen. They said in one case in early February, the UN accused the Israeli Navy of shelling an aid convoy heading up Gaza's coastal road toward Gaza City. The Israeli military said it was looking into the claim. The headline here, though, accused the Israeli Navy of shelling an aid convoy heading up Gaza's coastal road toward Gaza City. The Israeli military said it was looking into the claim. The headline here, though, is attackers hurling stones, a cement block, and an axe at the aid convoy trucks. Just absolute desperation taking hold here as Palestinians loot these aid convoys and social order breaks down.

Let me read you a little bit of what they said. They said such attacks have become common since Israel's invasion last year as desperate civilians faced starvation in pockets of the enclave. According to the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity in one recent attack, assailants threw an axe at a driver's cabin, attempting to break in. While another, the attackers hurled a cement block, according to an official. Israel blames much of the theft on Hamas, which it accuses of siphoning off supplies for its own forces. There is no evidence of that, however. But the Western officials said the attacks appear to be mostly organized by groups of Gazans who are unaffiliated with Hamas or were the spontaneous acts of desperate civilians. Hamas officials are barely present on the ground in any part of Gaza, the official said, and international aid organizations

are no longer coordinating their movements with that group until October controlled the entirety of the territory. And obviously, Sagar, the core problem here is lack of food, lack of water, lack of any sort of basic supplies, people absolutely desperate, and chaos ensuing. But a tenant to that problem as well is law enforcement. I mean, Hamas ran the Gaza Strip. And so law enforcement was definitionally affiliated with Hamas, as they always say, the health ministry run by Hamas, etc. Law enforcement was the same. unquote, Hamas by Israeli forces who already are being caught firing on these aid convoys. So that further leads to, you know, an escalation of chaos, chaos, looting and breakdown of social order. Yeah, it's really bad. I mean, it's one of those things that we saw a lot in Iraq. And

one of the reasons why you want to be very fearful of this is that it means that anybody can step into the vacuum. One of the ways actually that the Taliban rose to power in Afghanistan in the late 90s is that you take a very chaotic situation, you restore some semblance of order, people are willing to put up with it even if it means their kids can't go to school or their wives basically become imprisoned in their house. That's part of Hamas's rise too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, of course. But this point is just that we could see a lot worse than Hamas. We may actually see the, what if Palestinian Islamic Jihad or something even more radical comes in and they start shooting all the criminals?

That can actually, in a situation like this, that's very popular. And that's exactly how they can roll up defenses. And then especially with the way that the Israeli campaign, if you combine that with some counterinsurgency effort, you're looking at a years-long issue that there is right there. So the security vacuum is not just a, obviously it's a humanitarian disaster, but it's one of those where we saw it in Somalia, we saw it in Iraq, we saw it in Afghanistan. When you have a vacuum like that, it will lead to more military conflict in the future. That's why you don't want it to happen. You want to

prevent it. There are already estimates, I think, put together by Johns Hopkins group, I believe, that show that the deaths from starvation and disease could very rapidly outpace those from the bombing and the bullets. And when you look at the numbers in terms of in the percentages in terms of famine and starvation and children facing severe wasting and malnutrition, you know, we are really on the cusp of that. And the fact that, you know, the incursion, the imminent invasion of RAFA, remember RAFA is where the aid convoys are predominantly coming through. So when you already have a population that is literally starving to death, and then you're talking about further attacking the area where the aid is even coming in. I mean, it really is. I can't even say it's a disaster. It's already a disaster. And it's impossible to imagine just how much worse things could continue to get.

Yeah, I think that's right. We're very fortunate today to have one of the few reporters who are on the ground covering the ins and outs of Assange's hearings in London. So let's go ahead and get to that. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need

to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room.

You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance.

Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son,

even though it was promised to us. Now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead. But I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair.

Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous. But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret, even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret?

Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters,

and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Excited to welcome our next guest. Chip Gibbons is policy director of defending rights and dissent. He has advised multiple congressional offices on reforming the Espionage Act. He's currently in London covering those Julian Assange extradition hearings as an accredited reporter for Jacobin. He is also working on a book on the history of the FBI for Verso that I think is going to be challenging given the FBI doesn't love to give up information he was just telling us. But we're looking forward to that one as well. Chip, great to have you. Welcome. Thank you for having me. And I've had to sue the FBI multiple times to get documents for the book. We could publish a coffee table book of all of my

legal correspondence. We could have a companion book about what it took to write the book. The editor made that joke. We could do a coffee table book, Chip Gibbons course with the office of information. Well, okay. I'll need the money after the litigation. Chip, let me start by setting the stage here for our viewers. Let's put this up on the screen. Some of the sights and sounds from the protest outside of the courtroom. These are supporters of Julian Assange, who believe, as I do, that he is being persecuted and that his prosecution here in the U.S. is a direct assault on freedom of the press. You can see the crowd there, which is quite numerous.

And we played earlier in the week some of the comments from his wife, Stella Assange, and also some of the comments of journalist Chris Hedges, who was there on the ground. Could you start by just setting up for people who may, like myself, find the UK legal system a little bit confusing and hard to discern how this all works out, what these hearings are all about, and if this is indeed the last chance that Julian Assange has to block extradition to the United States? Well, I think everyone finds the UK legal system rather perplexing. I'm not convinced the British don't system rather perplexing i'm not convinced the british don't find it perplexing but what happened was uh in 2019 the united states put forward a extradition request to the united kingdom in 2021 a district judge which they sometimes just refer to as a dj which is very confusing to me why this disc jockey is doing these things, but it's a district judge, not a DJ, like we think, denied extradition.

In denying extradition, she rejected all of the political speech and press freedom grounds the defense for Assange argued for, but she found because of his mental health and because of U.S. prison conditions that extraditing him here would be oppressive. We've then had years of hearings in which that part of the decision was appealed. The U.K. prosecutors appeal at the U.K. taxpayers expense on behalf of the U.S. government. I can't fathom that, but that's what's happening. And they got that part of the judge's decision thrown out.

So with the courts having overturned the blocking of the decision on mental health grounds, the defense was then able to go and appeal the part of the decision on press freedom and political speech crowns. What's happening in the UK is you have to have a hearing about whether or not you have a right to appeal or not. So the two-day hearing, where they took two days of extensive arguments from both sides, all-day hearings from 10.30 to 4.30, was in fact not really an appeal, but a hearing about whether or not to have an appeal. Now, if Julian Assange loses at this level, that is his last chance to block the extradition in the UK.

He could go to the European Court of Human Rights, or they could try to sneak him on a plane. You know, there was some concern, as remote as it was, that they could have ruled from the bench yesterday and put Julian Assange on a plane before the court in Strasbourg could ever intervene. His attorneys are, of course, prepared to go to the European Court of Human Rights if he loses. But there's a big standoff between the Tory government and that court in general in the UK right now. Got it. So, Chip, as I understand it, press freedom is not necessarily like a major goal of the UK government. This is a bipartisan thing, not necessarily, you know, one party. So how does that stand in terms of if this hearing, you know, the way that it goes for Julian's chances of even defeating extradition, period? If he loses this hearing, he is done in the UK courts.

If he wins this hearing, it goes to another UK court who will hear very technical legal arguments about the European covenant on human rights and whether or not the 2003 extradition law actually incorporates the language of the extradition treaty that bars extradition on a political offense. But I don't think we should get lost in the legal weeds. On the second day of these proceedings, the British lawyers started by saying flat out, Julian Assange is not a journalist. Chelsea Manning is not a whistleblower. So while there's all these technical arguments about what is Article 7 of the European Covenant and what is this part of UK domestic law mean for extradition, this is a hearing at its

core about press freedom and about whether or not the U.S. can extradite a journalist to stand trial for journalism. And I feel very patriotic about the First Amendment. I think it's one of the things we do best in America. If this case comes to the US, we will be shredding the First Amendment's guarantee of press freedom. But the reason why there's thousands of people from all over the world outside this court is not because they're all concerned with how we're doing in the US, but I'm sure they wish us well, but because this case has global implications for press freedom. Julian Assange is not an American citizen. WikiLeaks is not an American publication.

The U.S. is saying it can not only apply the Espionage Act to a journalist, which would be terrible if they did it to the New York Times or a left-wing U.S. publication or anything like that domestically. But they're saying they can apply to anyone anywhere in the world, seize that person, bring them to this country, and disappear them into a dungeon, right? That is what the U.S. is arguing. And that is a shocking argument. And you know, if the U.S. says it can do this, other countries are going to do it as well.

I mean, imagine you had someone who leaked information about the Iranian or Russian governments and Iran or Russia wanted to extradite the journalist who published the leaks. We would be we would be besides ourselves. And you would listen to these British prosecutors say, Julian Assange isn't a journalist. WikiLeaks solicits information they're not supposed to publish. It's secret information. And it's like, okay, that's what journalism is, though. And they would read out, Chelsea Manning's not a whistleblower. She gave away X number of U.S. military documents on the Iraq war.

And it's like, no, that is whistleblowing. And the highlight of the hearing for me really came when the defense was allowed, I guess their appellants now, not defense, were allowed to give their rebuttal. And they started by saying, in two and a half hours, my learned colleague, that's how they referred to my learned colleague. The judges are my lord and my lady. The other lawyers are my learned colleague. I'm learning a lot about British legal euphemisms. My learned colleague in two and a half, I have to write a book on that, on two and a half hours, in two and a half hours, never once mentioned these documents

were about state criminality or about war crimes. And when you punish someone, when you punish someone for publishing documents about state crimes, war crimes, the nexus between that and a political offense is completely clear. Because the UK judges kept saying, or not judges, UK lawyers kept saying, well, how can it be a political case? We've had two different presidential administrations. If you say it's a political case, you're besmirching the prosecutor. You're saying he's bringing in bad faith. We have, you know, such good relationships with the US. And the lawyers just, they make a number of brilliant technical legal arguments. But they just came back with when you have documents that expose state criminality and you put the person in jail.

Right. The political repression there is quite clear. You don't need to be a lawyer to know which way the wind blows. And in this case, to paraphrase Bob Dylan. It's always important to remember, too, that people actually committed those crimes that were revealed. They were never held accountable. It's also important to remember that the Obama administration agreed with your that they could not prosecute him and protect journalists at The New York Times, The Washington Post and elsewhere or publishers as well. You know, Chip, how did you feel like these hearings went? You know, is the deck just hopelessly stacked against Julian because the UK is just basically

going to do whatever the Biden administration wants them to do? Or do you think that he has a shot here at actually blocking this extradition? You know, I appreciate that I'm an American observing the UK system. So it's a little bit hard for me to tell. Sometimes I would feel very confident if this was a US hearing assessing it. During the first day, the judges asked a number of questions of the Assange lawyers about these claims about publishing unredacted human sources. And of course, WikiLeaks didn't do that. Somebody leaked the password and the documents ended up online, which the British prosecutors argued didn't matter. He was still responsible for it. And even if he wasn't, that was for a U.S. court, not a U.K. court to decide.

But the judges did have a number of questions for the prosecutors that did seem sort of critical, some of the claims they were making, especially around this claim that Gordon Cromberg made that as a foreign national, the U.S. might not consider Assange having any First Amendment rights or First Amendment defenses to the Espionage Act. So we're saying we can put a publisher in jail anywhere in the world under our Espionage Act, but he can't raise press freedom arguments because those are only for Americans, which is a fascinating double standard. And when I talked to some of the people who had on the legal team and his supporters, they felt like the judges were less hostile on their questions than past judges were.

So I think there's a cautious optimism, but this is the British legal system. And there is a political establishment here that hates Chilean as much as they do in the US. I really appreciate the fact that you were on as much as they do in the U.S. I really appreciate the fact that you were on the ground. Ryan Grimm recommended it. You were one of the only people in the United States who actually, you know, was like,

hey, maybe I'll just go actually check out this very important case for our own legal system and for the world. So, Chip, we really appreciate the work that you're doing. Where can people learn more about it and support you? Yeah, come to, you can learn more about defending rights and dissent at rightsanddissent.org. I'm also on Twitter, against my better judgment, at shitgiven89. I keep waiting for Elon Musk to finally break Twitter, and then I can finally get off of it. But they keep threatening us with a good time, and we never get it. I know, yeah, I feel very similarly, but then there are also days when Twitter really delivers, you know, the Taylor Swift discourse was fun. Google image situation was entertaining. So I can't quit it. I'm not going to pretend.

Right. Chip, thank you so much again. I'd like to. Exactly. Exactly. My friend. Chip, it's great to meet you. And thank you again for joining us and for helping our audience understand what's going on there. Thank you guys so much for watching. We really appreciate it. If there's anything breaking over the weekend, we will bring it to you. Otherwise, we will see you all next week. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up.

So now I only buy one. Small but important ways from tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

I'm also the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal

the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. He's trying to give it to his irresponsible son, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. They could lose their family and millions of dollars? Yep. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.