Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 2/24/25: German Far-Right Surge, Crowds Flock To Bernie, Warren Buffett Hoards Cash, Luigi Fans Sound Off Outside Courthouse

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Krystal and Saagar discuss German far right surges as centrists collapse, crowds flock to Bernie as Dem leaders flop, Warren Buffett hoards cash, we interview Luigi fans outside courthouse.   Spencer Snyder: https://www.youtube.com/c/spencersnyder   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. after police pinned him down, and he never woke up. But then I see, my son's not moving. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat coming June 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband.

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unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Let's get to Germany, shall we? Because there were some fascinating elections that happened over there. Shall we put this up there on the screen? The German election official,

okay, you wanna help me with the pronunciation? Is it Friedrich or Fry-drick? I'm gonna go with Friedrich.'m going to go with Friedrich. I'm going to go with Friedrich. All right, Friedrich Merz, the Germans are going to crucify me for this, is set to become Germany's next chancellor, according to the exit polls and now the federal election results that we have learned. So this is actually super interesting because there's a couple of narrative things that are happening. You'll recall that J.D.

Vance and Elon Musk had been supporters and or meeting with the AFD, the Alternative for Germany, the more right-wing party there that's very against immigration. This guy, Friedrich Merz, what I've read about him, he's kind of almost a Washington-type figure. He was in politics, and then he left to become a lobbyist. and then he came back after he became filthy rich Almost in a Trump way where he's like now I've made my money and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna save Germany from the AFD that was really his goal His goal was to transform the center-right party into a party that could subsume the concerns around Immigration and around Ukraine the economy economy, etc., into his party

and to keep the AFD out of power. And that's kind of what it seems the coalition government that he will form is trying to do. At the same time, before we even get to all of that, the results themselves are fascinating because it is a German, basically, affirmation of the same trend across the continent, and in my opinion, here in the United States too. Let's put this on the screen. Friend Ryan Groduski pointed out, if you look at this election in Germany, the CDU is the second worst showing in the party's history, right? That's what Merce's party is. Those are the ones that came in first, but performed poorly compared to their history. Exactly. SPD is the worst result for them since 1887.

The Greens just had their second best showing ever. The AFD, the right-wing party, just had their best showing ever. And then the FDP is the second worst showing ever. Now, in American speak, we can look at the Greens and the AFD and say, what? You've got the left and the right, which are either their best or their second best showing ever. Now, in American speak, we can look at the Greens and the AFD and say, what? You've got the left and the right, which are either their best or their second best showing ever. Now, that doesn't mean that they're going to be in power, because what's happened is that the CDU is going to form a coalition with an alternative party to make sure that the AFD doesn't have access to those

high government officials. But I still think that's pretty important in terms of looking at the explosion of support, both for the Greens and for the AFD. And in both, you actually see similar forces that are here in the United States and across the continent. So, for example, in France, where we saw the left-wing socialist party that did very well while the far-right National Front was doing very well. Macron is completely under siege right now.

We all know that whenever he leaves, whatever comes next, it will not look like Mr. Centrist that is over there. This guy, again, I don't want to claim that he's right wing or any. He's very pro-NATO. He's very pro-Ukraine. When he's conservative, he's conservative in the sense that our George W. Bush types are. He's like, we need to clean up the debt crisis over here. But he's very much more willing to talk about immigration and to change some of the immigration policy over here. But he's very much more willing to talk about immigration and to change some of the immigration policy in Germany. He's much more of like a stronger Germany

that will break away from the United States. But do you want to weigh in on that before I go anymore? Just because I think that the surge of AFD and the Greens is the most important story out of this election. The general orientation of the student's party is like immigration restrictionists, but pro-Ukraine. So that's kind of their thing. You know,

just put the previous element just back up on the screen. There was one other thing that I wanted to note, which will feed into the conversation about like the far right and the far left in terms of the German election context. BSW is interesting too. So this is this break off party started by this person who was previously part of the far left party and then positioned themselves as being left on most issues and less pro-Ukraine, but pro-immigration restriction. So you could kind of put them also in the bucket of these like far left and far right, you know, upstarts, et cetera. And then, you know, with the AFD,

we'll show the map in just a minute, but there's a huge geographic divide. I mean, you look at these maps and it's East and West Germany, just like to a T. So that's, you know, very interesting dynamic there as well. And they performed basically

where the polls had them performing. So it doesn't seem like Elon or J.D. Vance's insertion into this election really particularly made a difference in either direction. No, no, yeah. I mean, that would,

look, in general, if you're abroad and you're, you know, voting because of how J.D. Vance told you to, what are you doing? Like, you should be voting based on how you think for your own country. Yeah. And they've got plenty of issues. If anything,

it may have sparked a little bit of a backlash because they did not perform as high as they had at some point in some polls. So if anything, there was a little bit of a backlash. But I mean, I think the best you can say is it didn't seem to make that much of a difference either way. Nor should it. Why should it? You know, it's like you got people should vote on your own concerns. I'm not going to think what you care about our elections. If you look actually, though, in terms of the change since 2021, absolutely fascinating. So the AFD has experienced a 10.4 percent increase in its vote share since 2021. And the Greens actually lost a little bit, but still had their second best showing ever.

The BSW, the CDU and the left all experienced modest gains. But it's really the decline of the SPD, the centristW, the CDU, and the left all experienced modest grains, but it's really the decline of the SPD, the centrist party, the center-left liberal party that is the one that is most like the big headline out of this election. But what you're watching is the basically collapse of the center. And Europe is grappling. They're like, what are we doing here? And I think that's really interesting. So you pointed out that map. Why don't we put that up there on the screen? We'll go to the next part, please. This one, by the way, keep in mind, this was apparently from the European elections, European Parliament elections in 2024, not for the Bundestag, but it still shows exactly what you're talking about. The divide

between the two of East and West Germany. I am not a scholar or anything. I did read a book once, which talked about this, about how the, basically about how the reunification of Germany is one of the least discussed like major political elements of political understanding in the West. As in it really wasn't that long ago. It was only like 30-something years ago. stark economic differences between the two are really important because it gets to the heart of industrialization, being Western, how European you feel, how you feel about Russia and Ukraine, communism, and all of that. And I mean, you're talking about generations really of that were split apart. So it does make sense as to how that would be. Also economically, as I understand, it's very, very different in terms of how they fare even today, some 30-some years

later, which again, makes complete sense if you were to split a country up for decades and then just throw them back together under different economic models. But it is manifesting itself very importantly. Politically, that was actually a Merkel ideological project before the mass migration into Europe during the refugee crisis. And a lot of German center-right people blame her for kind of splitting apart and opening up this can of worms. But whatever it is, it's been a decade-long march, I think, to where we are right now. Oh, at least. Yeah. And I mean, the East-West Germany thing is really fascinating. I mean, Eastern Germany is more rural, less developed. Also, I mean, there was kind of a concerted effort from the Allies to destroy some of the industrial base in East Germany.

You know, the bombing of Dresden was devastating to the prospects, the economic prospects of East Germany, et cetera. And so, yeah, you can see the very long hangover both of World War II and obviously of the, you know, reunification and how recently that is in terms of history. So that certainly plays a huge role here. In terms of Germany, part of what makes this election so important and interesting is there are few countries that were impacted by the Ukraine war as Germany. You know, they really, their economy really was quite reliant on cheap gas from Russia. And so, you know, without that, energy prices have risen significantly, huge cost of living issues. So you've got that. You have these longer term structural issues with

the German economy where they really kind of placed some of the wrong bets. They did not get in on the technologies of the future, right? Germans are known for their industrial production and for their auto industry. And the auto industry really just stayed set on gas-powered cars, really kind of turned up their nose at EVs. And unlike here, in Germany, first of all, they were selling a lot of cars into the Chinese market. And China now has their own burgeoning, very successful auto industry, including the best EVs in the entire world. And so that's been a problem for Germany. They really had been reliant on that Chinese market. And so there were these longer-term structural inabilities to adapt to modern environment.

Then you have the high energy prices. So they're going through a deindustrialization that's kind of similar to what we went through post-NAFTA or post the permanent normal trading relations with China. And that's putting an economic squeeze on. And then you layer on top of that, I mean, truly very, very significant levels of migration, quite a lot larger per capita than even what we've experienced here, where their percent of the foreign-born population has gone up to 20%. So you can see how all of these things, to be honest with you, when you put all those

factors together, it's a wonder that AFD isn't actually outright leading. And if it wasn't the fact that they're out there like actively flirting with Nazi slogans and plotting some of them to overthrow the government and all of these sorts of things, they probably would be doing even better than they are right now. Yeah, I will say, I think they have some, I feel complicated, I guess, about AFD in that they're a little bit less like pro-innovation, I guess, if that you would, I would like for them to be, because it's like you just said, they're very much focused on migration. I think that's fine. I think immigration is probably the most important issue for them. But if you people want to be independent, you need to make some shit. You need to stop being

completely reliant on us. That's my biggest problem, is that they really don't have any real vision for their own economy or for basically how to reverse the managed decline of the last 40 years, which it turns out also, I just can't let this go, what you were talking about with the Russian gas. The German miracle was fake. It was entirely built on cheap gas from Russia. The moment that that got turned off, they went into a deep slide, and their economy continues to contract. So let's also put that with the problems that this new guy faces. Put this up there, please, on the screen. This is C5, the statement here from the next prime minister. He says, quote, I am communicating closely with a lot of prime ministers and heads of state.

This is Merz said, heads of EU. And for me, it is an absolute priority to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that we achieve independence from the US step-by-step. I never thought I would need to say something like this on television, but after the latest statements made by Donald Trump last week, it is clear that the Americans at any case, these Americans, this administration, mostly don't care

about the future of Europe one way or the other. That's correct. And so we wish you the best, Mr. Merce. I wish you independence. I hope you guys do well. You can take over the rest of the continent. It's not like there's all that much for us. It seems to me to be the right, that he's thinking about things correctly. Yeah, I completely agree. I go, listen, you have your own shit to deal with in terms of your managed decline economy. You have mass migration problems. You are far, you are less important to the United States than you have ever been in Germany's entire history. Why should we care about you and continue to underwrite all of your security architecture and keep flying to the Munich security conference? Like you just said, the only reason we should have even cared about Germany previously was for cars. Well, guess what?

Now that China is a net exporter of cars, they're eating the Germans' lunch even in their own economy. Something like 10% of cars in Germany are sold are from China. It's unbelievable. So they have massive structural problems to think about. I think the only joke that's going on here is that they continue to try and rope us in because they know they can't do anything without the backstop, according to them, of Americans. This is where I wanted to get Ukraine in, C4 please, up on the screen. The European leaders are currently drafting a, quote, peacekeeping plan for Ukraine, but American forces have to serve as the backstop. Why? Because according to them, Russia would not, Russia both would not be afraid enough of French and of UK troops that are doing peacekeeping in Ukraine.

But more so, they literally don't have the resources to even sustain 30,000 troops in Ukraine without the intelligence and support of the United States. So their current plan, which I think is bullshit, is 30,000 European peacekeepers, no US soldiers directly on the ground. But instead, we basically pay for all of the support stuff in Poland and on the NATO borders that surround it. So this apparently is something that probably falls in line with this new German chancellor.

It's unclear just because the guy is very pro-Ukraine and apparently even wants to send them more missiles, but at the same time has not signed on necessarily to the Macron or the Keir Starmer proposal. So there's a lot still up in the air for whatever happens with the Ukraine peace. That is definitely the case. I guess what I will say is that, you know, for the Joe Bidens, the liberals of the world who really pushed to back Ukraine. OK, I'm actually OK with that. But then push them to continue fighting and wanted this war and actively thwarted the early stage peace negotiations that could have come to, you know, some sort of a resolution so everyone could have moved forward with, you know, and avoiding the mass death and destruction that

we've seen, you know, for these liberals, they really have helped to provide the impetus that has led to the rise of the AFD and other far right parties in Europe. I mean, the German example is, I think, really pretty clear cut because their energy prices and overall inflation were so impacted by Ukraine. I mean, yes, COVID was part of it, too. But Ukraine, I think, is a really undertold part of that story because I think it's uncomfortable for liberal media that was all in on this project as well. But, you know, the Ukraine war in terms of its impact on Europe was significantly inflationary, really contributed to the cost of living crisis and really did help to give fuel to parties like the AFD. The last thing and I'll note here in this, again, is some reporting from Dropsite is they also took advantage of Israel's genocide in Gaza. And the AFD is extremely pro-Israel. They have, you know, been pushing for, like, Germany is a censorious place. And the place that it has been most

censorious is on any sort of pro-Palestinian speech. Francesca Albanese was just there and, like, you know, they blocked her event and they're incredibly aggressive about effectively criminalizing any pro-Palestinian speech. And AFD has really seized on that and been a part of this movement. And that has also helped to bolster them. So all of these quote unquote, like liberal wars that Biden and other, Biden is really the primary actor here because everybody was following the U.S US's lead on this, have done nothing but to help to further break down the liberal order and bolster the far right throughout Europe. Yeah, it's completely their fault. I also tell you, I'm not going to let the Greens off the hook. The Greens, it's my secondary thing. How are the Greens not winning this election? That's the crazy thing. Because the only reason that they haven't

exploded in popularity is that many Germans are still pissed at them for being anti-nuclear and for the denuclearization of the country, which led to this explosion in reliance on Russian gas. So Greens, if you're listening, if you had just reversed your policy on nuclear or if you at least apologized, come forward and had asked for that, you could easily, I think, have won that election. Because Germans are liberal. I mean, look at them. Their social attitudes, the way that they think about the continent, even, yes, on migration, but they're way more permissive than even we are. They're much more polite. They're very, very into what you were saying, the censorious, their post-World War II censor stuff on the books is nuts. That's another thing that annoys me about the AFD, the Israel stuff, is that the laws on the books in Germany today are basically meant to prevent, according to them, the rise of any new Nazi party. But they use it to basically ban anything that they deem socially unacceptable. Famously, they would ban Tom Cruise for Scientology,

stuff like that. The laws are just incredibly expansive, and you can use them against anything. So, for example, they've been used in the past against right-wing activists, and now they're using them against these Palestine folks. But, you know, to cheer on being censorious, it's just you're leading to your own destruction. That's what keeps the center alive in Germany, is a lot of the managing of media and of public opinion. It's part of the reason why our country's a lot more raucous, I of public opinion. It's part of the reason why our country is a lot more raucous, I think, is that, yes, even with all of our free speech problems and all of that, it's still a way more free place than most countries in Europe. We're

allowed to have much more raucous debates than anybody else. All right. Some of them are on the show even. Oh, yeah. That's nothing compared to what if we were German, we would be going at it. I can't imagine. I admire the Brits in that regard. You know, the Brits, they're still like That's nothing compared to what, if we were German, we would be going at him. I can't imagine. I admire the Brits in that regard. You know, the Brits. I love them too. They're still like, the way their interviewers are so aggressive. What's that guy, Andrew?

People don't get their feelings hurt in the same way. Really, I respect that, you know? Who's that guy from the BBC? Andrew something. I know who you're talking about. Man, he's good. Yeah, the guy with the glasses and all that. And he just gives it to you.

I love it. I mean, this is part of why Piers Morgan is so successful. Absolutely. Because he, yeah, he has these, like, they're all calling each other names and like, you're a scumbag, you're a piece of shit. And then there's just like, invites him right back on the show again. Let me just say that. As people know, I hate Europe. But let me tell you this.

The UK has the best electoral system, I think, around. Because what happens? When you lose an election, what happens? Fuck off! You know, all these people. David Cameron, yeah, you get the big comeback as your little, what did he, he was like the secretary, whatever the secretary of state equivalent is. But most of the time, Gordon Brown, fuck off. You know, all these other leaders, if you lose an election, you're done most of the time. They completely recycle. Liz Truss, she's here in

Washington begging for attention at CPAC. In London, she's a joke. It's a joke that we invite her here. Yeah, you're right. I love how when you lose there, they get rid of you most of the time. They bring in a new leader and they reinvent themselves as a party and it works. And you can have a vote of no confidence. The government can fall like this. They have elections all the time. I love the U.S. system. I prefer the parliamentary system. Oh, absolutely. I'm sure it has its drawbacks as well. But yeah, I think it's better than what we got. Speaking of electoral systems. That's right. Bernie Sanders, who is now 83 years old, has decided to do this series of town halls about oligarchy in swing districts across the country.

And in particular, Bernie, unlike apparently any other Democrat, has this idea that, hey, you know, they're about to vote on this budget that is supposed to massively cut Medicaid and give a giant tax cut to the rich. And there is a very narrow margin that Republicans have in the House. So if you can flip, if you can put pressure on just a couple of swing district Republicans, then you can block them

from being able to successfully make those cuts. So he has gone so far to Nebraska, where Don Bacon is the representative there in a relative swing district, and also did a town hall in Iowa City, Iowa as well. Turnout has been insane. Reception for him has been insane. And we're about to show you a little bit of this. But in Iowa City, they actually had—he had to give three different speeches because they had two separate overflow crowds that he had to go and speak to. So let's take a look at a little bit of Bernie Sanders.

Here you can see him walking in. This is Nebraska being escorted in by the Omaha police there. You can see the crowd, you know, huge room filled to the brim. There are pictures of people waiting there outside for them. I actually, back in 2018, went to some of these events that he did supporting various congressional candidates. This is now in Iowa City, Iowa. That was the original crowd in the auditorium. This is overflow crowd, I believe, number one, where he goes and speaks to them there as well, trying to motivate the crowd. And there was another overflow crowd as well that he had to go. So just a huge reception

here for Bernie, which I think speaks to the fact, I mean, first of all, he has, unlike most Democrats, he has an actual ideology. He has an actual vision. It's something that's consistent and coherent and makes sense. And he's got a strategy. And the liberal Democratic base has really been just kind of totally abandoned by their actual, you know, leaders, whether in the House or the Senate, who have been completely asleep at the switch, have not shown anything like the energy or the strategy of Bernie Sanders. And this ties in also to just the level of energy that is starting to build in terms of one of the early things we tracked was thousands of calls into senators and members of Congress. Now you're

starting to see this huge response. Anytime any member of Congress does a town hall, you see these droves of people turning up who are very upset about what's going on with Trump and Elon in particular. And then you also see this energy and excitement around Bernie Sanders. I mean, in a sense, Sagar, like, it's really a shame that he's so old at this point, because this really is kind of his moment, because he's been proven right on so many things in terms of his analysis of how you actually combat Trumpism and actually offer an agenda that would make sense to people. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, as people know, I think the only Democrat politician who I have the softest spot for is

Bernie. I still love him. I really do. And so I appreciate. He's not really a Democrat. So maybe. Yeah, fair enough. I don't know what it is. All those Bernie clips from the 90s, whenever he's just railing against corporate media and him and Noam Chomsky and all that. I just, I like the dude. He's so cheap. comparison just because so much of the Tea Party last time was not just organized or not was an organic movement, but it was the influx of billions of dollars from the Koch brothers and from a lot of the Freedom Works and all of this. There was an architecture in Washington waiting for the Tea Party. They didn't know it, but they were waiting with all of the dollars in the world to organize all the stuff. It doesn't really exist on the liberal side. Like if you think about what liberal or what the liberal like NGOs and all

those other people are the most concerned about, it's like USAID funding, trans sports, like they're not ready for some oligarch conversation because they would have to pay taxes. So they're not ready to like get in on all of this. And this is kind of what I think the issue with the Bernie movement here will be is that organic anger is great. It can lead you to a midterm and all that. But you need to be organized around a real political wedge and project. Give it to the Tea Party for what it is. They hated one thing, Obama. And they wanted what?

Defund Obamacare. That was like their number one thing. I don't see yet anything other than stop Musk or, you know, like kind of like performatively protest. And it's just, I'm getting Occupy vibes off this as opposed to Tea Party, where, I mean, let's be honest, if you look at the political effectiveness of those two things, Occupy basically didn't do anything. Whereas the Tea Party, again, not a huge supporter of them or whatever, but they really did. They were able to take over the Republican Party. Yeah. They were able to, you know, shut down the government if they wanted to basically kick out John Boehner. I mean, they had real scalps behind their back. True. And I think

those points are well taken, especially in terms of the organization piece. Yeah, it's important. Because people want to pretend like the Tea Party was just an organic movement. It was mostly organic, but it's about the big stuff on the top. Right. And there were people there and there was an architecture there to marshal that organic energy. And I mean, I, you know, I was running for Congress in 2010. I went to, my policy was I would go and speak to any group that invited me that was in my district. I went to a bunch of these Tea Party town halls. So I saw it very up close. And these people were not like paid operatives. They were genuinely motivated. Now, were they all partisan Republicans who were super activated? Yes, by and large, that's who they were. And by and large, that's

what we're talking about here too, are people who are already active partisan Democrats, but who are now activated in a way that they weren't previously. I will say, I think you're giving the Tea Party a little bit too much credit for being ideologically consistent because ultimately the energy of the Tea Party, and this is something Emily talks about too, the energy of the Tea Party, which was just sort of like, we hate Obama, right? And ends up being, oh, you know, we're for austerity, we're for smaller government, et cetera, ultimately really morphs into the Trump movement, which was not those things, you know, was just about overturning the apple cart. And I mean, you can look at the debt and the deficit under the first Trump administration absolutely explodes.

So I think it was a little bit more inchoate ideologically than maybe you're giving it credit for. No, you're absolutely right. What I'm talking about are the FreedomWorks people. They're elected representatives. Does that make sense? So not necessarily the voters, but people like Jim Jordan, who to this day is what? This guy is just like a big tax shill on the Oversight Committee. He actually is a real libertarian.

And a lot of the people they elected, unfortunately, in my opinion, believed a lot of their own bullshit whenever it came to tax debt or whatever. Not the voters. The voters are very different. They're also, you know, not near. I mean, they have done a good job of flexing their power when they've had, you know, opportunities to do so. But they also now they they bend the knee to Trump like it's Trump's party. Yes. And so those people are very much secondary. We can see the way that that all went down with the budget fight at the beginning of the year. And once Musk and Trump were like, this is our budget deal, they're like, yes, sir, no problem. We'll, you know, we'll go along with it.

And so in any case, you know, also with regard to Occupy, it's not like Occupy just fizzled out and went nowhere. Occupy actively morphs into the Bernie Sanders movement. Like, that's not like Occupy just fizzled out and went nowhere. Occupy actively morphs into the Bernie Sanders movement. Like that's where that energy went. And some of the organizers from Occupy are actively involved in the early phases of recruiting Bernie Sanders into the 2016 campaign and being involved in the Bernie Sanders campaign. So, I mean, it did result in this large rebirth of a left-wing movement that just did not really exist in America at that point. So, you know, were they able to take over the Democratic Party the way that Trump was able to take over the Republican Party? No, they were not able to succeed in that.

But, you know, it didn't just fizzle out and go nowhere. It did create this large, significant movement. And I think what Bernie is trying to do and what there is an opening for right now and what you're seeing in the growth, like the channels that are growing, et cetera, online and the flight from MSNBC, et cetera, is that you have liberals who are much more open to a Bernie style message than they were previously and who are deeply disgusted with the liberal torch carriers of the traditional Democratic establishment. That is what is so different this time from last time. Where that goes, that's a total open question. But you have some 70% of the Democratic base like, you people are not fighting against Trump hard enough. And again, that is much more like the numbers during when the Tea Party was formed and they were discussing with Republican establishment leadership and Republican establishment leadership was underwater, even with the Republican base, you now have that dynamic on the Democratic side. So obviously there's no guarantees,

but a lot of the ingredients are there. A possibility is there that did not exist in the first Trump administration. And you even have people like Neera Tanden, who of course, now that Bernie's a million years old and will never run for president again, it's safe for her to say, but it's like lauding Bernie for going out and making his case with regard to all of that. Yeah, I don't disagree with a lot of this. I guess it just comes back to effectiveness and what you're trying to accomplish. Because can we play the clip of the guy asking them to get arrested? Because that's important. I think a lot of liberal activism is deeply performative and, again, rooted in their genuine desire to just recreate the 1960s, which if you can go back and read all of our debates about whether protests and all of that is even effective or not, but let's play it just

because that to me is the beating heart of liberalism right now. So this is, we have two clips put together here. The first one is the one Saagr is referring to, which is a Democratic representative, I think it's New York's 22nd congressional district or something like that, who hosted a town hall, has this huge crowd and people very energized. And one gentleman stands up and this clip went kind of viral. And then there's also a clip from a Wisconsin Republican town hall where you see people there, you know, flooding in who are very unhappy with this individual and what he has to say. So let's play both of those. I'm so proud that my representative was on the front line right there.

But I thought about Jimmy Carter and I thought about John Lewis. And I know what John Lewis would have done. He would have gotten arrested that day. Make them, make them outlaw you. We will stand behind you. We will be there with you. I will get arrested with you. I will do it. President Trump has issued a lot of executive orders. I think by and large, this is moving very quickly compared to other administrations. And I think across the board, he's done some very good things.

I think he's gotten rid of birthright citizenship. Oh! No! Illegal as hell! I think the reason I wanted to play that is, and I'm sure you'll disagree with this, is I just don't, I don't understand this, like, fetishization of, you need to go and get arrested by standing in the door of the Department of Education. And it's like, you're not doing anything. I mean, I understand it might feel good, it might look good, I guess, but it's one of those where there just seems to be this desire. They're like, we need to stand up against Elon. And that will definitely manifest in the midterms. No

question about it, but it's like, to what end? And that's why, again, I respect Bernie because Bernie has a plan. Like you could say whatever else you want about the guy. The guy has some pretty consistent beliefs across the overwhelming arc of his life. But if you look at the Democratic Party today, and we talk a lot about this with the constituency and all of that, how can you be anti-oligarchy when the vast majority of rich people in this country are just liberals? Like are people who, and I'm talking about even the super rich, like yes, many billionaires supported Trump. The vast majority supported Kamala, right? Or if you look at the NGOs and the democratic architecture, the HR class, the DEI stuff, like all of those people

are much, are just like much more engaged in culture war as opposed to a Bernie plan. And they would of course love to see somebody stand in the DOE in the, in the doors, but like once they're in power and they're selling to people, I'm just not sure I see it in the DOE, in the doors, but like once they're in power and they're selling to people, I'm just not sure I see it in the same successful movement. Not saying it can't succeed in the midterms at all. I'm just, I don't see like the Bernie energy. Like I was just on Midas Touch's YouTube channel, number one podcast in the country, by the way. It's all just like anti-Trump shit posting, mostly. It's just like Trump humiliates himself yesterday. I'm like, okay, I mean, what are we doing here? Maybe he did.

Okay, I mean, fine. Look, I mean, it's just like catnip or shitlips. It's just like, oh, Trump is so bad. But that's why Bernie being the, really, he is the leader of the Democratic Party at this point in time, because no one else is filling the void.

That's why that is so important because you're right. You know, you have liberals who are well-intentioned, who are disgusted with their leadership. They're, you know, disgusted with like Joe Amico over on MSNBC. They're disgusted with The Washington Post. They're disgusted with The New York Times. And they need some direction of like, how do you effectively like marshal some sort of movement and in what kind of a direction? And so, yes, that's why it matters to have Bernie out there. Like the problem is oligarchy. Here's the plan. Here's the agenda. Here's how we're going to block the cuts to Medicaid. Here's how we're going to block the tax cuts to the rich. This is what we're, you know,

this is what we're going to go out and try to accomplish because there does need to be some marshalling and coherence added to this movement. There's, there's no doubt about that. But you know, what I will say is again, the opening is just different than it ever has been. And there's just no doubt about that. The, the fact Hakeem Jeffries, they, the liberal base hates this guy. They hate him. They're disgusted with him. And so when you see that clip of this man who's standing up, who's like, great that you were the Department of Education, but next time, like, get arrested, we'll have your back, we'll be there. I think it would be a mistake to like overanalyze like, will that particular tactic be successful? I think it's more that they feel so abandoned by the fact that this party,

which made the case Donald Trump is an authoritarian, Donald Trump is a fascist. Now he's in there and his party is going to CPAC and doing, you know, Sig Heil over and over again. He's saying they're out there making the case like Trump is the living embodiment of the Constitution. He's saying effectively, les tats et moi, right? I am the law. I can't violate the law if I'm in the context of saving the country. Elon is consolidating power in this brazen, naked, self-dealing way. Like all the things they've warned about, that the Democratic Party warned about, they're happening. They're here. And you've got, you know, a bunch of listless, know-nothing leaders who are just sitting back like, oh,

let him punch himself down. Don't swig at every pitch. They just want to see someone with some fight and some energy. That's all. And, you know, so far, the people who have really tried to provide that are Bernie has the best plan and the best strategy that we've seen so far. AOC has been very aggressive in terms of getting out there and like meeting the moment in terms of her rhetoric.

And I think that's really all they're looking for is for people to show some fight. They know they're not magicians. They know they can't magically turn it back. They know that, you know, maybe getting arrested in front of the Department of Education isn't going to like solve the problem overnight or whatever. They just want to see some

fight. And I think that there was a lot of that with the Tea Party as well. I agree. There's a lot of that with Trump, too, to be honest with you, where it's like they just love to see him take on the fight and be unafraid of it and own the libs. And like that's kind of what the liberal base wants to see right now from their leaders. And they're not getting from anyone, say, basically like Bernie Sanders. See, I think that's an important point, though, is that what does owning the libs get you? It's like, you know, it gets you that farmer guy who got his government contract shut off. And he's like, it's the government who's coming after me. So it's like, listen, guys, if you want your lib rage to be hijacked by rich people, which is basically what's happened throughout the culture war on left and right. Like, go ahead, I guess. But again, that's why the Bernie piece matters so much.

Yeah, but aren't we overstating it a little bit? I mean, the guy sold out 2,300 or had 2,300 people in Nebraska. Like, you and I sold out at a place with like 1,500, 1,600 people. Like, it's not a lot of people. If 10,000 people show up, call me, all right? Have you been to Iowa City? This is a small place. Iowa City? Iowa City is a small place. Iowa City, isn't Iowa City the place where they have, what's it called? Isn't the university there? Isn't it one of the most liberal counties there? So, again, let's not overstate the case here.

Like, Iowa's not going blue. Like, Nebraska's not going blue. In terms of, like, all of these places, where it matters, Wisconsin, all that, I'm going to pay much more attention to that. Town Hall, maybe that guy will lose. But, I mean, it just, again, like, there just seems to be, like, a lib wish casting happening here, which makes me very skeptical because so much lib wish casting during the election turned out to be bullshit. But you acknowledge, like, there's probably going to be a significant backlash in the midterm. Absolutely. But I think that would happen no matter what.

I think Virginia is going to be in a bloodbath. They have elections this year. I think it's going to be a bloodbath because of how many federal government workers there are and how much this hits home for, and not just in the Northern Virginia suburbs, but, you know, throughout the state, including Norfolk, including the town where I live, et cetera. And so, you know, the backlash is, it has emerged. Right. It is here. The energy is there. You can see the trend in the trajectory it's on. And all I'm saying is, like, it is, I think, very inchoate. I think it is just a react in the same way the Tea Party was just really just a reaction against Obama and Democrats having a trifecta. This is a similar sort of parallel thing with the specific tension point being around Elon Musk basically like appointing himself CEO dictator king of the entire government. But that's why it matters to have these like you know it had Paul Ryan and the Tea Party and all those people like shaping what that movement ended up being about. And so who takes

control of the movement? And right now it's like Bernie and the left that are stepping up to the plate really matters for what the political goals end up being, how it's framed and what ends up ultimately happening. I hate to say, you know who my money's on? Buttigieg. I think Pete, he's playing his cards. He's been on Twitter. He's been fighting. He's going to win in Michigan. We all know it. I'm already wanting to blow my brains out. But I can see him. Pete's tanned. He's rested. He's ready. It's unfortunate. But I think he could be the bridge between the NGOs and the lib rage. But listen, maybe I'm wrong. All right, let's get to Warren Buffett. Let's go down to Warren Buffett. We've been really paying attention to this because it could be a signal, some major warning signs in the economy. Let's put this up there on the screen. So

a lot of financial news outlets have been taking note of this. Warren Buffett is currently trying to reassure his shareholders over his record amount of cash. The amount of cash is actually so stunning that it's literally, the letter shows, a cash pile grew by just $9 billion in this quarter. The cash pile has now hit $334 billion at the end of last year with an additional increase. Percentage-wise, looking at the entire history of the amount of cash and cash equivalents on the Buffett books, there has never been this high. And it's really interesting because of a question of why. So what Buffett says is that Berkshire shareholders can rest assured we will forever deploy a substantial amount of their money in equities, mostly American equities, although many of these will have international operations of significance. But the reason why he appointed to the amount of cash in his letter, Crystal, is that he is saying basically he thinks that there is a massive overprice of assets in the economy. I actually read a book about Buffett.

He's an interesting figure, kind of worshipped sometimes a little bit too much in my opinion. But the thing is that he's of the old school in terms of analyzing stocks, trying to make sure that the multiples fit with that. Whenever he sees a mispriced, that's when he buys. And that style of investment going back over time has obviously made him tremendously wealthy. For him, he sees significant imbalance currently in the economy, holding cash to be able to buy assets for presumably what he's saying is some sort of crash that's in the future. Now, is he correct? I have no idea. These guys are wrong all the time. But obviously, he's one of the most successful investors literally in American history. So we should all pay attention. And looking back to all the stuff that he has done previously, whenever he's held

cash, he's come out pretty well on top whenever he bets on something being overpriced. And that's kind of the foundation of his entire stock analysis going back for decades. This is the most amount of cash that Berkshire Hathaway has ever held, like quite by a fairly significant margin. So that's something to pay attention to. Something I had noticed before is actually a bunch of billionaires have been dumping stocks. So Bezos has been, Bill Gates has been, Zuckerberg, I believe, Ray Dalio. Alex Karp. He just sold a huge thing of Palantir. A bunch of billionaires are mitigating their risk and exposure to the stock market.

And that's, I think, something to pay attention to. One of the things, one of the reasons why we cover DeepSeek so extensively is because our stock market is so dependent on this just handful of tech giants. They are responsible for a majority of the growth in our stock market index over the past couple of years. So if their AI projections do not pan out, either in terms of their ability to corner the market or in terms of how impactful AI ends up being, then there could be a massive correction. And so the fact that DeepSeek was developed in China for less money and, you know, has a fundamentally sort of different configuration and blew up some of the assumptions undergirding AI development and trajectory in the U.S. was particularly significant because there is a big

question about whether there is a huge AI bubble right now comparable to, let's say, the 2000s.com bubble. And I think that's a very real and live possibility. You add to that some of the things we're about to get into, like the housing market still sucks. Inflation now is going back up. Consumer sentiment is falling. You have Trump, who knows what he's going to do in terms of tariffs, the firing, mass firings at the federal government. Like, yes, it's a comparatively small proportion of the overall workforce, but can have huge reverberating effects throughout the country.

All of these pieces should make you pretty nervous. Oh, absolutely. And all of the signs are there for some market problems. Put this one up there on the screen. This is from Friday, but just right now when we're looking at the markets as we're recording the show, the S&P is like mostly flat today. But the Wall Street on Friday had a significant dip. It was like almost like 1.7% or so. The reason why I paid attention to that is it kind of came basically on macroeconomic news. So it was concerns here over the economy and

on tariffs, specifically of the softening of U.S. consumer demand. I'm actually going to pair that with something really interesting that I just saw this morning. Over 50% right now of consumer spending is by the top 10% of the American income owners, meaning rich people are the literal backbone of the economy right now. That's actually really bad because any change in their consumer behavior means what? Crash for everybody else. Also, it's really gross because what it means, I've always pointed this for years, what is like Uber, Instacart, and all of these like new companies, what are they all about? Serving the convenience of the wealthy, right? Airbnb, same thing. Like all of these are about luxury industries where people basically have a mass service class to service the top 10%. That's really bad. More even distribution of consumer spending is

what you want in a healthy economy. We don't see that. And then worse is E3, please. Can we put up on the screen? Is that the overall price for home sales remains at an all-time high for January and the number of sales continue to drop as most people basically decide not to put their home on the market. You've got high interest rates. You've got high home prices. The median home price of a home sold in January was $396,000, which if you look actually at some of the top 10 metros, the price is roughly around $1 million with a 7% mortgage rate. So just think about it. Even if you want 20% to avoid PMI, and if you're

in a major metro area, good luck to you. I mean, who has hundreds of thousands of dollars just sitting around? Not most people, you know, it would take you a lifetime to be able to even save that up, not yet alone to save for the mortgage payments that come in the future. So it's very difficult. And this is probably what worries me the most and is, in my opinion, the most existential threat to a Trump presidency is some sort of bubble explosion. It could be, I mean, that's the thing about NVIDIA. It can still be a phenomenally valuable company and it could still drop by 40%, like just because of how increased the price is now relative. How inflated it is.

Yeah, just how much is there? Look at Metastock. Look at Google Stock, any of these others over the last five years. It's insane. And then the billions of capex that they're spending on AI development. I think if we put all that together with weak consumer spending, and then even if you leave tariffs out of this, just the fundamentals right now are bad. Price hold all time high for homes, lack of credit because mortgage rates are very, very high. Consumer sentiment, down. Actually, you're seeing an increase in budget stuff, which is not usually a good sign. It means people are tightening their pocketbooks. And then complete redistribution where you have top 10% responsible for more than half of overall consumer

spending in the U.S. economy. So that just shows you that if a single thing were to change, like let's say a correction of the stock market by 20% and all those rich people stop spending, at least even more of a doom loop that goes through the economy. That's exactly right. Yeah. And the last piece we have here is just specifically about consumer sentiment, which we can put up on the screen. This was the write-up from CNN. They say it's consumer sentiment plunges over tariff and inflation fears. So we already saw a pullback in consumer sentiment in January. There was another one in February. This is according to the University of Michigan's latest survey. Release Friday showed it had declined in February

for the second consecutive month, down by a steep 10 percent from January. That was double the decline initially reported earlier this month. And there's a partisan valence to this. So Republicans are still feeling pretty good. But both Democrats and independents experienced a fall in consumer sentiment. So, you know, when you put all these pieces together, it's a pretty perilous, perilous landscape. And, you know, you again layer on top of it the austerity push from Elon and Doge and the amount of chaos and uncertainty that's injecting with the federal workforce and, you know, all of the ancillary jobs that are connected to the federal government and the federal workforce, all the services throughout the country, things like the national parks, et cetera, that are important to the local

economies. And it ends up in a pretty concerning picture for the future. That's right. So everybody just pay attention. The economy, I mean, who knows where things could go. But I'm the most worried, and what we always talk about here, is the concentration of the magnificent seven stocks in the S&P 500 and the difference and just the sheer ability of the indexes right now to crash just as a result of a reduction in the tech market is like a huge threat, especially if all of those are overvalued. And when there's a market correction and high interest rates, think about that. Money is expensive and people's overall assets are low. It will just lead to a total change in consumer behavior, especially for people at the top. It

could have all sorts of crazy impacts. So I'm really worried about it. It could also, obviously, what's the easiest thing to do whenever there's a crash? They fire a bunch of people. So then, you know, we have high, we actually have high employment right now, some of the highest ever, but we could have like the worst 1970s scenario of like bad asset prices, high interest rates, high unemployment. It would just be a complaint, not to mention, you know, all the domestic strife and all that stuff. I'm still waiting for America to break. Like, I don't know how long they can take it. I just don't get it. The home pricing is the one I think about the most where I'm like, man, like just,

you know, decades, if you're like 47 and you still have been unable to buy a house, what do you do? Like that would break me personally. So I just have no idea how much longer this whole thing can go on. Yeah. If you look at the cost of housing, education, healthcare over decades, it just, I mean, it has skyrocketed astronomically so that the number of hours you have to work at an average wage job to be able to afford those things has, I mean, it's just skyrocketed. It's insane compared to what it used to be. And so even as you look at these various indicators of, oh, in this way, America is doing better and Americans are wealthier, et cetera, et cetera. But when you talk about these core staples of a affordable, of like a basic middle class life, those are the things that have gone through the roof

and there's really no end in sight, no serious attempt being made to deal with housing prices. And that's such a core component too of how Americans have traditionally been able to build wealth and stability. So that's why we always pay a lot of attention to it. But yeah, a lot of warning signs here. In any case,

Luigi Mangione made an appearance in court this week, and our own Spencer Snyder was there to talk to some of the protesters who were in and around the courtroom about why they were there and what they were hoping to see from this trial. Let's go ahead and get to that. Very fortunate to be joined this morning by Spencer Snyder, who is one of our fantastic Breaking Points contributors and whose videos regularly blow up on our channel. Great to see you, Spencer. Good to see you, man. Great to be here. So you were in Manhattan. You spoke to Luigi Mangione, made his first court appearance there since his original arraignment. And there were a bunch of Luigi supporters and sort of like

anti-healthcare industry protesters who were there waiting to get inside the courtroom and also outside the courtroom. You were able to speak to some of them. We're going to play a little bit, but why don't you go ahead and set up what we're about to watch here? Yeah, you know, I went to the rally for Luigi Mangione outside the Manhattan criminal court on Saturday just to talk to some people and see what motivated them to come out. So I just prepared a few of their statements and their general sentiments. All right. Let's go ahead and listen to that. Free Luigi!

I spent thousands of dollars out of pocket in health care expenses in the past year. I have good health care. I have Anthem Gold PPO. And I just don't think that we should exist in a system where medical bankruptcy is a thing. And I don't think that murder is justified. But when you have a system that systematically devalues the lives of consumers and of citizens at the behest of the profit margin of the corporations, you're going to have people get mad. Brian Thompson is indirectly responsible for the deaths of probably thousands of Americans at this point. Thousands of Americans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot. And so I think free Luigi means free health care.

It means free our people. It means democracy. I don't think there's one person in this country that hasn't had at least some type of negative experience with health care. I will tell the one about my mom because she's passed since now, but she had a huge tumor in her neck. It turned out to be stage four non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which nearly killed her. But had she listened to the health insurance company and the doctor, which wasn't willing to pressure the health insurance company,

she would have passed at the age of like 48. I was like I work with a lot of women who have breast cancer and they are getting declined their right to reconstruction and I have to argue in a document basically I'll write like a 40 page document saying like hey this woman had breast cancer these are her rights um and they're kind of being declined and this is like really frequent. Since I'm a home health aide I've seen it it within my patients, my clients getting, you know, denied, denied, denied with insurance claim that they really need. And I think it's just extremely unfair. And I again, this is, you know, this is why I'm here. This is why I'm supporting Luigi. He is a hero to me. I don't see him as a criminal at all. We have a solution. The solution is a

single payer, ideally a universal payer system across the United States. But we're also here advocating for the New York Health Care Act, which is a single payer system for New York. So if we can't get it for everybody, then let's at least prove that it is a viable concept here in New York. I mean, really interesting to hear that. It seemed like there were a lot of ladies there, so I'll let you weigh in on whether there was, in fact, a bit of a gender imbalance here, perhaps owing to the relative attractiveness of this gentleman. But also, you know, what do they think that they could accomplish by coming out and doing this protest and supporting him as he's, you know, facing trial? I mean, as far as what they think is accomplishable just by that, I think it's up in the air.

But I would say people there are really motivated by a broken healthcare system. People there were angry. They're frustrated. One person said, when I asked her what she thought when she heard the news about Brian Thompson, she said, finally, something is being done. There were a lot of doctors there, a lot of people who work in healthcare, but also just people who are angry about the healthcare system. There were some Luigi fans. I mean, everyone's wearing green. Everyone had a lot of

Luigi stuff and paraphernalia and hats. One woman had knitted a Free Luigi sweater. But everyone I spoke with was there because they think the healthcare system is criminal. Everyone seemed pretty serious to me. No one told me, I'm here because he's hot. Yeah, no, good point. That's very important. So in terms of the social effect of all of this, what struck you in terms of the way that people felt compelled to come out? So they wanted to talk to you.

Obviously, we heard a lot about disgust with the overall health care system. But how closely are they following the news? And what do you think the political valence of most of the people who were in attendance were? Yeah, that's a good question. The people there were following the case. Yeah, that's a good question. The people there were, they're following the case. They know what's happening. Political valence, they were definitely, I think there were a couple of conservatives there. I know there was someone had pointed out a conservative YouTuber who was there or a TikToker, but I mean, people were there on the left. There were, or I would say mostly leftists out there. I didn't see any DSA people who I know are DSA, but there were people out there

advocating for the New York Health Act, which is something that the DSA has made a project out of. How did they grapple with the sort of moral questions involved here? You know, you got a little bit a taste of that in the clips that you shared of someone saying like, well, I don't think murder is like murder is wrong, but also this health care system is wrong and immoral as well. So how were people sort of balancing the way that they felt and thought about that? You know, I think in my estimation, they see the killing of Brian Thompson as not entirely dissimilar from someone

who kills their spouse in self-defense. I mean, there was, I'm sure everyone remembers the Emerson poll asking to what extent people found the murder acceptable. Something like 58% said totally unacceptable. Everyone else was somewhere between somewhat unacceptable and completely acceptable. Something like 58% said totally unacceptable. Everyone else was somewhere between somewhat unacceptable and completely acceptable. I mean, that's a lot of people who, it seems to me, think that being a health insurance CEO means you're some kind of criminal, which is why a lot

of people in the crowd, their big goal, when I asked them what they hoped for, what they hoped the outcome of the trial would be, a lot of people said jury nullification, which if you don't know is basically when the jury says, yeah, he did the crime, he would be guilty, but it's not that simple. So not guilty. Well, I'm really interested. So in terms of the protest and others, as you were talking about, I know you follow the case as well. What are some of the other legal hurdles that Luigi faces now in terms of the procedural and eventual lead up to trial? Yeah, you know, something that his attorneys highlighted is just the complexity of the three cases. Because, you know, he's actually facing a trial in Pennsylvania where he was captured.

He's facing a trial in New York, and then he's facing a federal trial, which he might be eligible for death. So it's up in the air. I think we have, there is another hearing next month, and I think that's at federal court. And the next New York appearance will be in June, I believe. But I don't think anyone really knows what's going to happen at this point. So these are separate charges that he's facing in state court in Pennsylvania, state court in New York, and federal court as well?

I believe so. What is the next that we will see from Luigi? When is his next appearance scheduled to be? And was there anything noteworthy from this particular appearance that people should know about? Not that I'm aware of. I haven't read all the details of what happened in the hearing. It's probably just pretty standard pretrial stuff. I would imagine. But the next appearance is next month in federal court. Got it.

All right. Well, Spencer, thank you for being on the ground for us. It's very interesting to hear what they all had to say. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's great to see you. Thank you. Great seeing you. Thank you guys so much for watching, for bearing with my voice.

It's been struggling throughout this one. We'll be back here tomorrow, and then we'll see you then. I'm Jeff Perlman. And I'm Rick Jervis. We're journalists and hosts of the podcast Finding Sexy Sweat. At an internship in 1993, we roomed with Reggie Payne, aspiring reporter and rapper who went by Sexy Sweat. A couple years ago, we set out to find him.

But in 2020, Reggie fell into a coma after police pinned him down, and he never woke up. But then I see my son's not moving. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat coming June 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there.

Each week, I investigate a new case. The murderer is still out there. With a BIN News This Hour podcast. Updated hourly to bring you the latest stories shaping the Black community. From breaking headlines to cultural milestones, the Black Information Network delivers the facts, the voices, and the perspectives that matter 24-7. Because our stories deserve to be heard. Listen to the BIN News This Hour podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.