Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 2/27/26: Zohran Flawless Trump Victory, 1st AI Mass Layoff, Anthropic DEFIES Hegseth

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

The BP squad looks at Zohran and Trump's new meeting at the White House, Jack Dorsey's company firing 40% of its staff due to AI, Anthropic's continued back and forth battle with the Pentagon over surveillance and AI drone swarms, and Ryan uncovers a document from the Kat Abughazaleh campaign for congress in Chicago with some surprising Foreign Policy statements.    To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. Good morning, guys. Happy Friday. Happy Friday. Yet another commie takeover. This is a fun week for us, comrades. Yes, indeed. No both-sizing here. Maybe Griffin, are you, if we got the Mensheviks, the Bolsheviks, you're the, actually, I'll do Kerenzki.

So we have all three sides of the center left to left covered here. That's good. That's good. I identify as a political podcaster, sort of an umpire in the meetings, in the struggle sessions. Balls and strikes. Fair and balance. Balls, strikes, fouls, all that good stuff. Trophies.

So big show today. Speaking of a commie takeover, there's been a commie takeover once again at the White House. House with one Mr. Mammani and Mr. Donald Trump. Crystal, what happened yesterday? Well, first, while I'm talking, you've got to pull up the picture of Trump and Zoron, because it is, it is art. I mean, this is no AI. AI could never create this image. It's so glorious. So what you have here is Trump seated at the Resolute desk. He's holding up two newspapers, one of which is real from the past, forward to city dropped dead. And the other one, which Zoran mocked up and provided to him to stroke his ego, says, Trump to city, let's build. And Zoran is standing over him looking, you know, not really

smiling, but looking sort of commanding in control. And Trump just the biggest, cheesiest grin on his face. Like, he ate this shit up. And lo and behold, you know, Zoran comes out and says, look, we had a very productive meeting. Trump, I guess last time they met, which of course was, you know, started the bromance had said, bring me some ideas for how you could build. Or I was like, here you go. Here's what we want to do. We want to build these 12,000 units. We want, you know, federal grants to be able to do it. Trump is apparently open to the, to this idea. I think it's like $21 billion that we would need from the federal government to pull that off. And the other thing, very significant, is there was this Columbia University student who had been arrested by immigration

authorities and under really, under false pretenses, they accessed her dorm at Columbia University by lying about looking for a missing child. They even mocked up fake like missing child posters according to, you know, university officials. And that's how they got in and ultimately arrested her. And so the other things are on asked for is for her to be released. And, you know, I think it was like within an hour she had been. He also put to Trump, I think, four others, you know, cases that we've frankly been following fairly closely that he wanted Trump to look into. I think he gave those to Susie Wiles, so those continue to be undetermined, whether or not action will be taken there. But just absolutely yet another incredible Zoron W that really goes beyond what anyone could have expected.

Yeah, and it's this sunny side yard, you know, which is this just massive, you know, wasteland of basically, you know, huge train yard. and they're saying build on top of it, right? If I'm understanding the idea. Yeah, that's the idea is to put like a thing over it that you could then build on. And a lot of the housing would be, you know, for people who are kind of in New York, they have a law that helps to support people who are making too much money to be in public housing, but can't afford market rates. And obviously there's a lot of people that fall into that category.

And so a lot of this housing would go to those type of working. a middle class folks. 21 billion in federal grants, and this is a big area out in Queens. Yeah, absolutely outrageous. What do you guys think? Is this a handshake deal that's going to go through?

I mean, we'll see. It's like you got to start somewhere, right? That's right. I mean, Zoran is like played to Trump's. Trump's. Yeah, I mean, Zoran played precisely into Trump's personality, right? The egotism, like he loves New York. Love's having his face on a newspaper.

Loves a young, handsome, charismatic star with Zoron. And, you know, and loves building stuff. So he's like, all right, you want to work together on building? Let's do this. Look at how the public would love you. You know, look at the way the newspapers would report this. And I saw there was a meme going around that was like, you know, Zoran, let's make a deal. You get one fake newspaper cover.

I get 12,000 housing units and, you know, student. released from ICE detention. Yeah. It's going to be great. And, you know, I can't imagine that the NIMBYs are going to want to stop this. It's like, right now it's a rail yard. Like, you want to maintain your beautiful view of the rail yard? Like, I'm sure some people will have said I had a view that now is being blocked.

But like, all right, this feels like doable. Yeah, totally. When I saw how much Trump enjoyed the newspapers, I thought that was something his team made. And then I was like, oh, it's so genius for the Zoran team to come in with props. And yeah, I just thought that was amazing. We also do have an image of the Columbia student here that I just found. This is her. She was at least after like one day.

Yeah. Any garments crystal? I mean, her being extremely beautiful. certainly didn't hurt her case. And I mean, just based on how savvy Zoron's been, Trump clearly loves beautiful people, men and women, by the way. I mean, that's part of the bromance was Zoran, as clearly he thinks, like, look at this young, handsome guy.

And I want to be associated with that. So I totally would, can imagine Zoran being in there, like, you know, this young, beautiful, brilliant girl, sir, sir, I'm sure this isn't what you would have wanted. Can you please look into her case, you know, putting it to him, like, this isn't you. You don't even, you don't say anything, I think, if you're Zoron, but you show a glam shot. Like, here she is.

This is who we're trying to, like, get out. And Trump, yeah, like, all right, you know what? Because Trump, like, does he, like, does he even, like, care about any of this? No, not at all. That's what's crazy. Somebody calls me. It was like, what? We're raiding Home Depot's or rating farms?

reading a hotel, Stephen, stop it. It's like one of the things that's like sinking him in the polls and he's like barely aware of it. But he is aware like in that moment that his polls are down. And so he's glomming onto someone he knows is hot. Someone he knows who's got motion right now, which is Zoron. So it's really clear that Trump really enjoys these meetings and likes glaming on to people who are on the up as opposed to him who seems to be in a steady decline. It was such a funny moment in the state of the union where, you know, they'd written in this line. that was supposed to be like an attack against the communist mayor of New York City.

And Trump can't help but deliver it without. He's like the communist mayor, who's actually a nice guy, actually really like him. We spent a lot of time together. Like he can't even get through the one negative line about him without being like, you know, he's actually a good guy. I actually like this guy. So I don't know. Zorn's got some kind of magical charm.

I won't be the first to say it's a goddamn shame that the Constitution bars him for running for president because the level of charm and skill that, this man has demonstrated, both from, you know, just political acumen to delivering. I mean, when the rubber hit the road, he was like, okay, we are going to deliver on our promises. I'm going to be out in the streets. People are going to see me. They're going to notice basic things like, you know, the snow is getting removed and in an extraordinary way. And I'm making good on my promises with regard to, you know, access to childcare and these other things. So, you know, we talked about the rent, freezing the rent. He's able to accomplish that now, too. So it truly is extraordinary. And,

you know, there have been some political decisions that he's made that I'm like, I'm not sure about, like, backing Hakeem Jeffries or opposing his primary candidate. Now I'm like, listen, you know what you're doing. I default to your judgment much more than mine because of the demonstrated track record on the ground and the things he's been able to accomplish that are just already extraordinary. We were talking before we started about there's like this whole right wing critique of the snow shoveling program. And for those that don't know, Zorn put out some people made of it, you know, one of his trademark videos and was like, look, we want emergency snow shovelers. It's going to be 35 bucks an hour. I think it originally started what at 20 and then he upped it to 35.

And, you know, come on out. Bring your ID. We'll get you signed up with the city government. You can come in and help out. And clearly this is a big part of why. the snow removal operation was so incredibly effective that it was so effective that there were people sharing photos like, I don't even think it's snowed. Like, this is, this is a lie or this can't be from this time because there's just, there's no way that they were able to get this done. So the program is stumblingly effective. You're hiring people. You're creating jobs. They're actually beneficial to the community. And the first knock on it was, oh, they need ID to shovel snow, but you don't want them to have ID at the polls. It's like, okay, so they did that one. And now people are sharing videos of like,

you know, it'll be like seven guys all working together on a corner. And they're like, you know, oh, this make work socialist program, how dare you? And I just hope, you know, I think this critique is really smart and savvy. I hope they continue talking about Zoran Mamdani creating jobs for Americans and like, you know, hiring them to do useful things in the city that benefit their communities. I think this is a big, like, I'm devastated by this critique and I hope they continue it. Yeah, Libs of TikTok is on such a downslope. It's like, they had talk about motion like a couple of years ago. They had some serious motion.

They're at the lighthouse. Like last night, they're like, oh, 16 guys on a corner shoveling snow. Like, yeah, you ever shovel snow? Like, if it's one guy in the corner, like, you're going to have to wait for the spring for it to melt. Like 16, if you shovel it faster. You can actually get it done. Yeah, well, it's hard. Sometimes you take a break, like, relax.

Also, you ever go by a construction site? Sometimes people are like leaning on a shovel. Like it happens. This also comes during Snowball Gate, which was a snowball fight happening in Washington Square Park where some cops were hit with snowballs. Maybe some ice balls. Who knows? These could be hard snowballs.

But the NYPD Commissioner came out and gave an all hands-on deck. It's a statement saying we're going to have to catch the people who did this. The right and the Zionists were like New York City is falling apart. And I think what's so great about Zoran is, A, he didn't take the bait on it and was like, no, I'm not going to ban snowball fights from New York City. But then he also flooded the zone with like real news. So he's like, not only am I not taking the bait, but actually, we're actually doing like

real stuff here. And I think that's so great. And you kind of need both to completely disqualify these stupid criticism. And while we were talking about aesthetics, there's one more aesthetic that I had. Like one other little ballet move that he had on it was when he finally did put a statement out about it, his last line was something like, if anybody, if you're going to throw a snowball at anybody, throw it at me. Incredible. Which is just completely emasculating to the cops because he's telling them, look, they can't take this.

Yeah. It's a subtle way of being like, you know, because he did the things like, look, guys, city workers, including cops are out. Working hard. But if anyone's going to take a snowball, it should be me, which is a subtle way of being like, come on,

you guys have this soft, like you can't even take a snowball. Fine, I'll take the snowball. Don't worry about it. Like what I've told my kids, like if you, if you're so angry,

you really need to hit somebody, like hit me. Hit me. Go ahead. Like, I'll take it. Because it doesn't hurt when they hit me. Have they done it? Yeah.

If they take you up on the arm or something, it's like fine. Like, if they're really young, go ahead, go ahead. good. And then like they feel better then. And it's better than them hitting their kid hitting their sibling who can't take it. So that's that's kind of the same thing mom Donnie did. It's like if you're angry, hit me. New segment Ryan's parenting tips. Pitch that to Miss Rachel. And you know, while we're talking about good parenting advice,

but well, well, when you're talking about ballet moves and masculinity and I had to flag this one last moment about another aesthetic choice that Zauron made, which was bringing this guy into the White House, his spokesperson, Joe Covello, who of course is like central casting perfect for Trump. Look at this double-breasted suit. The mayor, Matt, president asked him to come back with some big ideas, how we can build things together here in New York City. And that's what he did today. Mayor took him up in this offer. We went to DC to later to pitch him about a possible project in New York City that could deliver one of the biggest federal investments in housing for the past 50 years. Boom.

I don't know. Just everything about it is a masterclass. Like, bring a guy in that you know Trump is going to fall in love with. Incredible stuff. Yeah. Well, we know Joe. Joe's been on a lot of different campaigns

and, you know, is I'm sure going to be a great spokesperson for Zorn as well. He left, he left Grand Partners campaign to join Zoron, actually. I don't think that suit would have fit on an oyster boat, but if it's on his, he's on his Federman redemption tour. Yeah.

Yeah, well, I mean, in fairness, many did not see where that was going, myself included. So, yeah. A lot of us need to be on that redemption tour. Yeah. I say, Graham Platner and Zoran, Mom, Donnie are a pretty good way to reclaim your cred there. Yeah. Canadian women are looking for more. More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are of them.

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So we've got block stock here, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is Block A.I, which is Jack from Twitter's company. Is that correct, Crystal? Yeah, Jack Dorsey. So Jack Dorsey cut 40% of his workforce over the last 24 hours, and the stock is now shooting through the roof. Crystal, what does this mean? Well, not only did he cut 40% of his workforce all at once, but he put out a statement that said effectively, like,

look, we saw the writing on the wall. These jobs are going to go. And so because of AI. And so we had a choice. We could either do this sort of dribbling the amount over a longer time frame, or we could just do it all in one fell swoop. And he talks about, you know, we're going to give them 20 weeks plus one week per year of tenure of their salaries. So they have time to adjust, blah, blah, blah. But basically we just decided to do the one fell swoop approach and come 40% of our labor force. And then, you know, predictably, but it's still noteworthy. The, you know, like the stock market loves when you lay up. off workers. So for other companies that are looking at, you know, how to approach the AI era, it sends a pretty strong signal that if you're doing mass layoffs, your stock price is going to be pretty significantly rewarded. Now, I will say I'm not an expert or analyst. I really know nothing about this company, okay, except what I was reading on Twitter yesterday. But I saw some

people who were saying, like, yeah, well, what's really going on here is that he overhired during COVID and now he's using AI as an excuse to get rid of, you know, the excess of labor force that he really didn't mean. Now, he directly disputed that and said, no, that's not what's going on. Look at, you know, our productivity levels and how much bang we're getting for the buck of all of our workers, blah, blah, blah. But in a sense, I think it's kind of irrelevant because the point here is really the market signal. The story that is out now is when you do these mass layoffs, it will create a massive reward. And then the other piece of this is there is just, there is just simply no doubt, and I know there are still people that are in denial about this, but there is just

simply no doubt that with the advent of Claude Code and Claude Co-work and where AI is today, there is going to be significant disruption. How quick, what fields, you know, what's the uptake in terms of it takes large organizations a while to figure out how they can do this? Do people do mass layoffs? Or do they just let people, you know, naturally move on to other jobs and they just don't rehire. That's still all kind of an open question. But that's why this particular move is really significant because this puts some, you know, pushes some chips to the side of companies are just going to start doing mass layoffs. And this could accelerate really, really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. And this is not a small company, right? This is square. And like, this is, this is not,

These are not just like Jack Dorsey's like side hobbies. Like this is a major company. It was 10,000 employees. Yeah, it's huge, especially for a tech company. So yeah, this is, I just completely real with Crystal. And I think, yeah, the left in particular is going to need to come up with serious solutions to this crisis that are going to require going beyond. Like the baseline has to be some obvious things like Medicare for all. Like that's an easy one.

Like it's even easier as you're heading into, you know, mass unemployment. Like everybody needs health care. Like, okay, so that that's an easy one. Green jobs, easy one. So there's some like left wing ideas that easily kind of translate into this era. But then there's going to need to be a lot of creative thinking too about what can you do in a moment. of possibilities that is opened up by a rupture of this degree. Like, if you do have mass unemployment coupled with, like, mass fear about where things are headed coupled with rage at billionaires,

like, what can you offer to those people that isn't dystopian mass surveillance and, like, incarceration? And a police state, which is the direction we're headed. Because that's that's the other thing that'll be on offer. So the offer currently, as best I can tell from this administration, is the, you know, the mass surveillance and police state and, you know, the $1.5 trillion defense budget. Like that's the, we'll keep everybody in line using guns and surveillance, right? And then the other thing is this sort of like lotto casino economy where we don't have, the American dream is dead. Like no one believes anymore. can just work hard and get ahead, especially not with AI.

So instead, we're going to hold out to you, dangle in front of you, the possibility that maybe, as the example I've used before, maybe you'll get cast as the grass in Bad Bunny's halftime show and know who the singer's going to be and be able to cash in on Polly Market. Maybe your parlay is going to hit this time. Like maybe you really know a lot about basketball,

and you're going to be able to work that out, and that's how you're going to be able to succeed. And so it's- Crypto coin you pick. like is going to blow up and you get out before the rug pull. That's right. You're, you're going to pick the right meme, you know, shit coin. And you're going to, you're going to be one of the lucky few that makes it big before the, before the rug. So that's really the thing that is being offered. And of course, we all know that, and most people, I think, intellectually know that those things

overall are deeply, they're extremely predatory, you know, and the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of people are going to be net losers in a big way with all of those things. But that's the new American dream that is being offered by this administration is like, you know, just a roll of the dice, right? A pull of the slot machine. Some hope and a prayer and a wish and a dream and a fantasy that your crypto coin is going to hit, your parley is going to hit, you're going to stumble upon some sort of insider information. because, you know, there was a world, I guess, more in the Bannonite lane where you could imagine them creating some sort of social safety debt that at least applies to like their quote unquote heritage Americans, but they're not even bothering to do that.

So it's even, I mean, it's, you know, it's deeply dystopian what is on offer there. So it shouldn't be hard for the left to come up with a different deal. Like, okay, we're ripping up the social contract. Let's do it. But let's come up with something where people are going to actually benefit where we're going to have control. human control like democratic, small D democratic control over this technology so that it's not deployed just for the benefit of a few capitalists, but it's going to be deployed for the benefit of, you know, of human beings, which is not the direction we're headed in right now.

But it's going to require a lot, a lot of big thinking. You know, going back to this mass layoff, maybe this is like kind of a horrible thing to say, but we were talking, we've talked before about how you need some sort of a shocking event to wake people up and to get them to take this stuff seriously. And in a sense, I'm actually more afraid of the other scenario that Jack laid out of like, I could have done it slowly over time, but I kind of thought it was better to rip the band-aid off. Because if you have a displacement that is large, but still in the scale of things we've lived through historically, there is going to be a lot less political incentive to act. There's going to be a lot more storytelling about like, oh, well, you know, the professionals who

were really skilled made it. So just work a little harder, just like college degree a little harder, just get in your grind side and you'll be fine. Whereas if we have something that is truly unprecedented, or approaching unprecedented or cataclysmic, where, you know, the jobs are shedding and there can't be any story around why it's your fault. You lost your job. That's when we're much more likely to get actual political action and some sort of coalition together. I mean, I really, like I hope you guys know I hate talking that way, but I think that's a, the riskier situation is actually where, you end up in the same place, but it's a slow drip. And so there's no one moment where people are really galvanized to come together

and make a new social contract, which is what we need. Yeah, we're all accelerationists now, I guess. Well, sort of, it's a different kind of it. Because, yeah, the old accelerationism never stipulated that without it, you could have human extinction. Like that's a significant difference. Like the old accelerationism was like, you know, the contradictions embedded within the system

are going to lead to some sort of revolution eventually. So we might as well just accelerate it and do it now. Speed up the timeline. Speed up the timeline. The new one is saying if we don't do something like, we might, like these AIs might nuke the planet. And that's it. So we need to stop.

So it's not accelerationism because you're not trying to bring the future forward. You're trying to stave off a potential future. Deviationism in a different kind of deviationism. Pump the brakesism for sure. But it can't just be pumped the brakes. You have to actually detour also. Like you're off the road that we're on. Yeah.

But for now I do think the most important work is just how can we slow things down. How can we resist the data center is how can we slow things down? Because this administration is not going to do anything. I mean, we can, this is probably good transition to the anthropic fight with the Pentagon, which we've been covering because I think it's so important and so significant. You have the stakes here are anthropic, which model Claude is used extensively by the Pentagon. They have a $200 million contract. And they believe, their belief is that it's really important to work with the U.S. government because it's much better for a democratic country to achieve AGI or super intelligence first. So they're all in on like the war, AI war against China.

They're perfectly happy to like work with Palantir and get this Pentagon contract. Okay. So these are not like, you know, super hippie, dippy, like whatever. But they had two red lines. One of them is, we don't want our tech used for mass surveillance of Americans. And number two, we don't want it use for autonomous killer robots, like no autonomous death machines. And then Pentagon said, absolutely not. And if you don't comply, we are going to either use the Defense Production Act to deem your technology essential and just take it, or we're going to deem it a supply chain risk. And as Dario is pointed out, like these two things are directly contradictory. But anyway, put that aside, a supply chain risk, we're going to cancel your contract. And we're going to make it

So all of our other contractors cannot use your product, which would be, you know, a massive economic hit because, of course, every large company works with the Pentagon effectively. So today is the deadline. And yesterday, Dario put out a statement saying that, you know, no, we're not going to comply. Like this, they, they tried to, the Pentagon tried to say, well, we won't use it for any unlawful purposes. And Anthropics said, well, that's really not good enough because technically, Like the law has not caught up to reflect the constitutional rights that Americans actually have. And on the Fourth Amendment, it's, you know, the Clara Scott where it's like, yeah, technically it's not illegal for you to use and collect all of this information that exists and use AI to collate it. But it clearly is a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

So you just saying that you're not technically going to violate the law with it is really not good enough. So no, we refuse. And, you know, and that's kind of where we. are. I just saw an update this morning from Sam Altman is saying we're going to see if there's a deal with the Department of War that allows our models to be deployed in classified environments that fits with our principles. So Altman trying to get in there, we'd ask for the contract to cover any use except those which are unlawful or unsuited to cloud deployment such as domestic surveillance and autonomous offensive weapons. I don't know how they're thinking they're going to draw the line

in a different place than Anthropic did. But Sam Altman trying to get in on this. Elon, of course, already was like, oh, I have no principles. Don't worry. I'll do whatever you want. Sign me up. But my understanding is that, you know, Claude has already been implemented in a lot of these, in all these classified systems. And Claude is the most effective. Like, it's, it's the best product for what they want to accomplish. So it's not so simple to just like flip the switch from, you know, Claude to GROC or, you know, Chad GAPT or whatever. So it will be messy for them to untang So that means Anthropic has a little bit of leverage here. But the quote that I saw from some senior military official quoted by Axios was like, yeah, it's going to be messy. And because of that, we are going to make them pay for doing this. And so the Hegseth had threatened the Defense Production Act, which Trump has shown willingness to use. He just used the DPA, which is a law that allows the government to force a private company to produce something if it's in national security interests of the country.

He just did it for Roundup, bizarrely. He told Monsanto, which owned by Bear, you need to make more roundup. And we need more phosphorus. Phosphorus is an issue that the U.S. has roundup. Anyway. We need more cancer. That's what we need. So they threatened that they would use the Defense Production Act to require Cloud,

to work with the Pentagon. That would lead to an interesting court case where you would then have to litigant. whether the Pentagon's demand is legal. And if their claim that this thing will kill people without due process and will surveil people in violation of the Fourth Amendment is true, then it's hard to see how you can compel. The government can then legally compel anybody to, you know, break the Constitution. Well, it is, I do want to underscore what I was saying before the contradiction between these two different paths that they've laid out, either the Defense Production Act or deeming it a supplied chain. risk. So it looks like they're going in the direction of supply chain risk. I think probably precisely for the reasons that you lay out, Ryan, that it would be legally, you know, tenuous and they'd

have a pretty good case at, you know, getting that locked. And, you know, the courts are very, even up to the Supreme Court, as we saw with terrorists, like they're very pro-business. So I think anthropic could have a pretty good shot at winning that case. But if you do the Defense Production Act, what you're arguing is that they're essential to national security. If you do the supply chain risk, you're arguing they're a detriment, they're a risk to national security. So the fact that those are the two paths that they're choosing from, it's like it's either essential or it's terrible. And it looks like they're going to go in the direction of saying that this is terrible for national security. But I mean, we'll see. They may, they may taco, right? They may, especially as we're on the cusp of war with

Iran, as it appears, you're going to be changing out the system that you, you know, really rely on at this point and are comfortable with, et cetera. There's a lot going on militarily. Is that really, you know, something you want to deal with right now? You really want to, you really want to bring XAI and their total lack of scruples in to fill the, you know, to fill the void there. So we'll see how this all plays out. But I think it's a fairly credible threat that they'll, you know, that they will decide to wage a kind of like both government and ideological rhetorical war against Anthropic and say this is like the woke liberal AI and we should none of us should have anything to do with it and it's the woke mind virus and it's going to destroy civilization, et cetera, et cetera.

How much do you think this is like brand preservation by Anthropic that like Anthropic sees the Trump administration, sees people like Pete Hegseth and is like, oh, like I don't want like the anthropic like brand slapped over a drone swarm that attacks Springfield, Ohio or something like that. You think that there's some of that where they're like, we'll let Grock be the ones that do like the first bad AI incident that kills a bunch of people. Like, because you look at this administration how lawless they are and how they kind of have gone a million different directions. And it's like, oh, yeah, we easily see how like in the next year we could have the anthropic terminator, you know, I don't know, blowing up all the boats in the Caribbean or what have you. I don't know. I think it's pretty.

Go ahead, Ron. No, just that ethics and safety are central to anthropics brand. They also just recently dropped their safety, you know, one of their key safety lines that they've been walking around for a very long time. So, yeah, I think in some ways it could be too much to do that and then follow it up with, okay, fine, we'll do these autonomous drone swarms and mass surveillance for the Pentagon. But I think some of it is, I don't know, real. Like if you read Dario's writing, he's a complicated guy, obviously, and you've got to read everything with a grain of salt. But, like, it's been consistent on these questions.

Yeah. So you have to credit that consistency with something. I think it's pretty hard to make a case that this decision byanthropic is just purely like a capitalist maximizing play. because the timelines we're talking about now with achieving, I mean, many people, myself included, I'm persuaded that we've already achieved artificial general intelligence and people keep like moving the goal post and not really admit that. But I think we're already, I think we're already there. And the next milestone is super intelligence, which will be equally

kind of like difficult to draw a line of like, we've made it. But, you know, these timelines for when these things are being achieved are extremely quick. You know, we're talking about Like, I'm hoping that we don't get there before the next presidential election because we need time, as we were discussing before, to develop policy framework from the left and be able to really meet the moment. And that's not going to be, that's going to be a very significant task. So, you know, you're looking at three more years of this administration. And this is a critical moment. And if you're having a fight with the U.S. federal government and have your contract stripped and, you know, who knows what other ways they're going to screw with you and. not approve whatever you need approved and block this or that merger that you're trying to do,

et cetera, it's going to make the task of anthropic coming out on top in that AI race more difficult. And that's ultimately all of their, you know, that's all of their goals. And Anthropic, their view is like, we need to be their first because we are the only ones that have any, you know, any principles whatsoever. And frankly, at this point, I think that's actually kind of fair, that they are correct about that. And so, you know, so in, I have no doubt that if the Pentagon follows through on their threats and I believe that they could, that this will be damaging to Anthropic in terms of winning that ultimate AI race. And like I said, because of the time frame, you know, it's, they all see it as as very zero sum, like whoever makes it is going to be the model. and, you know, if you were just interested in my model is going to be the one to proliferate, you wouldn't care about any of the safety concerns,

even the, like, really dire ones you lay out, Griffin of, like, the drone swarm attacking some American town or whatever. Being the one that gets there first is all that matters in terms of ending up on top as the dominant model. Well, that's optimistic. I like it. Canadian women are looking for more, more at a lot. themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart.

And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women. Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on IHart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. What do you do in the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you?

I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us,

what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, faith when it's complicated, some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, a story gripped at the UK. evoking horror and disbelief.

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppie. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, doubt the case of Lucy.

Lettby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Lettby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We don't need to spend a lot of time on this story, but I think just a tag for this conversation that is, I think, thematic. U.S. military uses laser to take down border protection drone, lawmakers say, and FAA closes airspace near El Paso, Texas.

It's happening again, these lasers in El Paso. So, yeah, more of that in the future. This is a reverse this time. Last time it was DHS just goofing around with their toys. This time, it may have been DHS goofing around with some drone toys. and not telling the military that they were doing it. And so the military, military seems to have very little patience for DHS. And I think, and I believe considers them to be amateurs and hacks.

Really? Like, why would they, where would they get that? Oh, where they would get that. Yeah. They've always been a judgey. Oh, my God. The idea that we gave the Border Patrol, these freaking, like, laser weapons and whatever else they have in their arsenal is utterly terrifying. Utterly terror. I mean, look at these guys. Like, I don't know. I don't know, guys. I don't know how any of us are going to make it through this regime because these people are evil and buffoons. Like the combination, I didn't, you know, it's not the movie combination you get. And Griffin, you could probably speak to this. Usually, like, the evil types are like masterminds. You know, they're geniuses. I've had to really, you know, struggle to anticipate and understand the evil idiot, not the evil genius.

mind, the like evil idiot mind. What does that one look like? What is that one going to bring us? Much more Cohen Brothers, DHS than anything else. Yes. Yeah, it's Fargo, USA here. Well, on that, yeah, what do you got on? Real quick, on the Pakistan and Afghanistan are at war. People can read more about that in our newsletter or elsewhere and go find the details.

But yeah, border clashes between, you know, Afghanistan and Pakistan. led to Pakistan then launching bombing raids on Kabul and Kandahar. Against the Taliban, right. Against, yeah, against Taliban. Amid some false claims that the Supreme Leader seem to be false claims that the Supreme Leader in Afghanistan had been killed. There's videos going around of the Taliban kind of sacking some Pakistani bases. Because I think on the ground, the Pakistani military is not much of a match for Taliban.

but Taliban has no Air Force because I don't think we left the keys behind in those planes. Haven't figured out how to hotwire those bad boys? No, they need Tom Cruise. Apparently. No, Tom Cruise and Top Gun 2, he just finds an old jet and just hops in it

and takes off. So they need somebody like that who can figure out how to fly those. Without that, the Pakistan Air Force has been striking Afghanistan. I saw some conspiracy theories that this was like that the U.S. instructed them to do this to like to weaken the week in the Taliban so that Iran when Iran regime change happens that things will be calmer on

the Iran-Afghanistan border. I don't see any reason to credit any of that. I feel like this has its own logic going on to it. But anyway, just letting people know that happen. Maybe we didn't exactly discourage it. Maybe it's one of those, right? Well, Trump, this could be his, What, 15th war? That you could stop? Yeah. He hurries up and stops it. Well, I lost count after a certain point.

Yeah, you do. You do so much peace. Well, you can check out that story at Dropside News this morning, I'm guessing. It'll be in our newsletter, yeah. Awesome. Well, we've got probably one more story to fit in the first half here. What do we want to do? Do we want to do Paramount?

Do we want to do Ryan, that story you've been working on? Let's do Cat also. Do you want to do this one real quick? Yeah. Let's do Cat. What's going on with you? Kat. So we... Get your exclusive reporting. So Kat is running for Congress in Illinois.

Correct? Right. Chicago area. Chicago area. And she just had a debate. Kat Abu Ghazela, Palestinian-American, as the running as kind of the most left-wing candidate, against Daniel Biss, who was he the mayor of Evanston. And kind of like an Elizabeth Warren type liberal.

Yeah. Yeah. And Laura Feather. For sure, but not exactly like Bernie Wing. right and then laura fine who is getting all of the the apac support so it's kind of like a three-way race

between them the latest poll I saw had Biss up by like six seven points with cat in second which was and then both of them beating Laura Fine which is remarkable because fine was kind of

you know fine had the pole position here but it seems like the APEC money is actually dragging her down. It's a very, it's this Evanston area, it's a very well-educated district. And so once it got out that she was secretly backed by APEC, it seems like all of that money is as much of a handicap as it is helping her. But so Kat may actually win this race now. And so we went to her campaign, we went to her for comment about about what we're going to talk about now, I haven't heard back, told her she's welcome to come on the show to talk about this as well.

She has a, and let me put this up on the screen, she has, it turns out her national security advisor is, is quite the hawk. And so his name's Ben Murmell, and he is a, so he's, he's the guy that does her foreign policy and national security. So there's an email going around an activist circles that has that has gotten to me in which one of the kind of Washington based organizations reaches out and say hey you know cat's doing well like can we get some clarification on what we've seen on her website which seems seems to be some unusually hawkish positions um we see on the like we see on there that she seems pretty kind of to the right more hawkish than Trump on Taiwan, more hoggish than Trump on Ukraine, but she's great on Palestine.

So what's going on here? And so they got back and I agreed to conceal the person's names that the person, so that not this person, but like that somebody would leak the email to me because it's getting a lot of attention kind of in the background, but it's something that the public should know about too. So I'll roll through these. You don't even need the questions, but you can pause this and read them if you want because the answers are fulsome and they kind of incorporate the question. One, he talks about his role.

Here, so number four, so this is about China and Taiwan. You weren't supposed to scroll that far down, Ryan. You're supposed to get tired of reading by that point. So he asked about China and talking because they said, look on the website, it looks like kind of concerning language. on the website. Are you sure? Is this really what Kat believes when it comes to Taiwan? And so the quote here, if elected, Kat would strongly push for amending the Taiwan Relations Act to include language,

dropping our strategic ambiguity towards defending the island from a Chinese invasion. Strategic ambiguity is actually precisely kind of what AOC was mocked for presenting when she was kind of babbling and kind of searching for an answer. Like that is literally the current American strategy towards Taiwan is to just babble and not answer so that China doesn't know like what we will actually do. And so what Kat is saying here

through her advisor is that that doesn't work anymore, that we need to say that we're going to hit him. So as of now, China knows that Trump won't send the seventh fleet or any other Indo-PACOM assets to defend Taiwan in the event of an all-out assault.

We owe it to Taiwan and democracy to demonstrate that America will do everything possible to counter wars of aggression with force. Extremely hawkish position from Kat there. On Palestine, strong statement. The genocide in Gaza is a disgusting failure. You've heard her talk a lot about the genocide in Gaza, and so nothing here would surprise you.

But then he adds, on her behalf, that does not mean that our historical impulse to use military force versus correct. It hardly ever is and often causes untold damage. There are a wide range of options available to both the executive and Congress precluding kinetic force from sanctions to NGO support, all of which are likely to produce results when applied correctly. Cat is firmly an interventionist. The world is better off when America takes a leading role in it, but that role must be ethical and lawful and it must place human rights first. So that, you know, so we don't want to necessarily do war, but we do want sanctions. We do want to fund NGOs that do these like protests and, you know, support our favored folks inside these different countries and, quote, firmly in interventionist.

So I don't think that's what people would necessarily have expected from what, from how people understand her when it comes to Palestine. And then on Russia, Ukraine, if elected, yeah, let's get to the good stuff. If elected, Kat will hold the line. Russia cannot be allowed to eke out a win in Ukraine, and Kat stands firmly against any attempt by the Trump administration to sell out our European allies to Putin's imperialism. Kat fully supports funding the Ukrainian war effort to the hilt until the Russian forces are degraded to the point where a mere restoration of pre-war borders is possible, or any other out. become preferable to the Ukrainian government. She strongly supports the forward deployment of air, naval, and ground assets to the NATO front line, as well as the positioning of dual-use missile and drone interception systems.

So ground assets, are we talking about American ground assets? Well, hopefully we can get some clarity from her on that. We must additionally surge MIM 104 patient. And this sounds like Ben Murmel here is kind of like. like a bit of a military geek. So he goes deep into the like weapon systems that he wants to see placed on the border. The Chinese are closely watching our actions in Ukraine

and the outcome of this conflict will determine the nature of their attempt to seize Taiwan, possibly preventing it altogether if Ukraine can pull off a diplomatic win. We owe it to those that gave their lives. Aggression throughout our history and people seeking freedom everywhere to not cower

in fear. Kat will be that voice on the hill and she won't stop until Russia is made to pay for its crimes. So I don't know what, like, what do you, is that what you would have expected from No. Chambrian? Not at all. Not a firmly and interventionist. It's like, whoa. And so, I mean, I guess my question is, you know, it's like I have a lot of, I guess sort of charity towards new congressional candidates, having myself been a congressional candidate in the past and knowing where I was coming from is just being like, you know, kind of a regular person who just wanted to serve the country. I mean, granted Kat has been in political space for a long time, right? But foreign policy outside of she's,

you know, placed, planted her flag very effectively on Palestine. It's not like that's what she's known for. Right. So, you know, I would be open to the idea that like she kind of just, she kind of outsourced this to Ben and hasn't really fully thought it through, in which case there's a lot of opportunity to say, you know, this is not, this is how we end up in the Iraq War, right? This is how we end up bombing Libya. This is how we end up with failed states and doing all these like color revolutions. And this is effectively the type of foreign policy we've had for decades going back into the Cold War. And, you know, if you want to do something different, this is not what it looks like. So I am, you know, I am anxious to hear from her directly on this because this is very, very surprising to me that this is the type of language that is being used here. There's also one other weird element here. This guy, Ben, according to this GW article, he was at this, he's quoted at a pro-Israel rally, where he's, I can maybe put this on Twitter, but let me find this. What's his quote here? It's like, what are you doing at the pro-Israel?

So Ben Murmel, here it is. Actually, I'll just, here, let me put it up. Ben Murmel, a graduate student in the school of public affairs, attended the pro-Israel rally alongside Harris Mowbray, who graduated from the School of International Service in 2002, referring to the nearby encampment. There's a lot of points that they're making over there that I also agree with. I think they've done a bad job police in the anti-Semitism that sometimes rears its head within that movement, and I think that's turned quite a lot of people off.

This comment aside, Like, during the genocide in Gaza, he, there was a encampment at GW and Ben went to the, her advisor, went to the pro-Israel rally that protested the encampment. So that's why maybe more to your point that she may have just outsourced this to this guy. And he's like, well, and that's very. It's getting up on the website and it's getting out to groups as official kind of campaign stuff. so she's responsible for it. Right. If you don't have a really formed foreign policy view,

the people you surround yourself with become really important. You know, if you like have a fully formed view and maybe you want someone who has a different ideological orientation to kind of push you and, you know, be the person in the room and says, well, have you thought about this? That's kind of a different deal. But if you're coming in somewhat unformed, and you're bringing in this person who is very hawkish and, you know, just a couple years ago was going to pro-Israel protests, then you're, you know, that's obviously what's going to be reflecting your campaign. That's going to really help shape and mold your own thinking, you know, as you're kind of coming into this fresh. Yeah, I mean, people have talked about like with AOC Matt Duss is advising her. And you can see that, right, in her language and her approach and the things she was saying at the Munich conference as well.

And I think foreign policy has always been an area from, I remember when, you know, AOC first got elected. And she got that question about Israel, Palestine. And she was very like, she knew there were things, the landmines here, but she didn't know exactly where they were. And she kind of had just like a general instinct of like, I want peace and Palestinian should have rights, but I don't know exactly what to say about this. That's kind of where she was. And I think she's always been much more comfortable on domestic policy than she has been on foreign policy. And so it reminds me a bit of that with Kat. Although, again, I mean, Kat has been a political, you know, she's been a political actor, not a candidate, but a political actor for a long time. So anyway, those are some of my sort of like thoughts and reflections of just, you know, reacting to this in real time.

But there's, I am definitely surprised to see what is in this, you know, campaign communication that purports to speak for her and her views. Yeah. And so the offer we made to cat, yeah, no, the offer stands, like we reached out to catch and welcome to come on. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Hear her perspective at length on this. Yep. But go ahead, Griffith. I also think that there is a definite lack of, like, okay, for the Taiwan one, it's kind of hashtag random, like, for what we're doing there.

But for the Ukraine one, I think there is actually like a vacuum of leftist perspective on the Ukraine war. I don't think that there's a lot of strong national figures on the left that are talking about how many people are dying every month there, that are talking about the average age of the Ukrainian soldier, that are talking about how the front lines haven't moved in years, or that we would have to actually deploy ground troops and start World War III to win back this landmine-strewn land. So because there has not been, even on shows that I like that are pretty leftists,

You know, I don't think the majority report talks a lot about that stuff. That's probably one of the biggest leftist shows, probably a show that can't watch us. So I think there has been like that vacuum on the Ukraine thing. But this is still pretty unacceptable. You have to like find like good people to surround you. But, you know, I do like that she's been good on ice. She's been good on Palestine. And she's been good on TV, which is important.

You know, she goes on these CNN panels and she's awesome. She's like a great fighter. She's like, clearly someone we need. So I'm willing to like say maybe she picked the the wrong guy. But if these are her views, this is kind of a classic example of like progressivism being too broad a term and like being like, oh, you can fit all sorts of stuff. You can be a, you know, you can be a we need to sack Vladimir Putin progressive or you can be a non-interventionist progressive. And it's such a broad term that it becomes kind of useless. And I think people that are on the more hardcore left should probably depart from the term.

But yeah, so Kat, please come on the show. I think the Ukraine point is an interesting one to dig into a little bit more. You know, early on in the Ukraine war, remember there was a group of progressives who tried to put out some letter. I don't remember. It was like, Ryan, you probably remember better. It was like calling for a ceasefire or negotiations or diplomacy or something. I remember it being very tame, right? It was very like, peace is good, you know?

Like, that was basically the vibe. And they faced so much backlash. for penning this letter. And it worked. Like after that, everyone just kept their mouth shut. And they're like, I guess we'll just get to do this war forever and kind of like slowly feed in weapons and, you know, create some sort of like miserable, deadly destructive status quo. And here we are. And, you know, I mean, I understand why Ukraine is a difficult position for progressives because there are competing principles at stake here, right?

Russia was the aggressor. is in a legal war. You know, Ukraine is like, are the underdogs? Like, it's, it's not right what has been done to that. I would say what are, you know, screwing around with Ukraine and using this as a proxy war is also not right. And then, of course, the competing principle there is that people are dying. This war has no end in sight. And even though any resolution right now, there's, it's not going to be a just resolution. There's just no doubt about that. It's going to be a very ugly and difficult pill to swallow. But meanwhile, people are dying and the more time goes on, the worst the solution is likely to get for Ukraine.

So I understand why that is a difficult issue for progressives to just kind of like take a hard stand on and because you do have these competing principles at play. But, you know, by and large, at this point with both parties and with the Trump administration, I mean, he barely mentioned Ukraine at all in a state of the union. It's just become another one of these intractable, intractable, conflicts where it is easy for every political actor to just pretend like it's not happening and allow a horrifying, grinding, deadly status quo and dangerous, by the way, status quo to persist. You know, I mean, it reminds in a sense of Afghanistan where it was like, everyone knows

this a mess. We don't even know why we're there anymore. Like, what are we even doing? And yet it just creates a logic of its own because politically it's easier just to put it on the back burner and push it out of the news. then to actually bring it to what ended up being a rather ugly conclusion from which Joe Biden himself, like that's when his approval rating falls off and he never recovers. So that's kind of where we are with the Ukraine war, which is really an across the board, you know, Republican, Democrat, progressive, moderate, everybody issue at this point where it's like no one really wants to focus on it or talk about it because it's easier not to. Yeah, and history nerds can fact check me, but this has lasted longer than World War I now.

Like, this is, this is, and with frankly, no end in sight, other than the complete demographic collapse of Ukraine coupled with a genuine demographic hit to Russia that will resonate and ring out for generations. It's insane. Yeah. All right. Sorry. Did I cut you off, Ryan? No. No.

Okay. Just buttering with rage. All right. Kat, we'd love to talk to you about that. We'd love to keep talking more about the Ukraine war, because I do think it's a topic that fell by the wayside, and it's tough because I think, yeah, everyone kind of has just shrugged it off as never-ending.

But yeah, that's going to do it for this first half. We got a lot of topics in the second half. We wanted to talk about some horrible ice video that's been unearthed by a reporter of a blind gentleman that then passed away after being left out in the cold. We've got some stuff on the Save Act that we wanted to get to with Trump. And then now some China election interference claims about the 2020 election. And of course, our friends over at Paramount have won the day.

And it looks like they will be the ones to purchase Warner Brothers. So we're going to get all that some more. If we do have time, this plumber from the Green Party, Hannah the Plummer just won this mess. of election that could be like a dagger in the heart of the labor party, like that might make Kier Starrmer like literally the last labor prime minister in world history, like ever again in the U.S. Wow.

Okay. Let's find time for that. I want to know more. No. We're doing that first, Ryan. All right. Let's get to the plumber right now. See you all there.

Breaking Points.com. Hi. It's Joe Interesting host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about. astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? Evidence has been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd in 2022. I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom.

The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.