Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 2/4/26: Melinda Gates Blasts Bill Over Epstein, ICE Victims Testify, US Shoots Iranian Drone

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

Ryan and Emily discuss Melinda Gates saying Bill needs to answer for the Epstein allegations, ICE victims testify in Congress, US shoots down Iranian drone.    Van Lathan: https://x.com/VanLathan?s=20  Blowback: https://blowback.show/    To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. Hans Charles. Our Minnick Lamumba. Listen to the A building on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right

that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. Good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. How was last week? Last week, it was so sad without your end, but we all managed to get through.

I think more people are curious how your last week was. Good time. Good time was had. Apparently some Epstein news dropped while I was gone. Yeah, Ryan was in Cancun at Fish shows as the I've seen files were being released. I felt bad texting you. Oh, I was loving it. I was loving it.

It added to it. It did. Yeah, I mean, because this is... It's not a tropical vacation without... For people who are genuinely curious about how the world works and who the people are who run this world, this is, like, this is the moment that the window is actually open. It's so unbelievable. And that's... And Mac was just telling us that we've had hundreds of...

of new premium subscribers over the last couple of days. And I think that's because we've been covering this honestly from the beginning. And it's such a disorienting mess of a story because there's so much active disinformation that gets pumped out into it. Yes. And you want to know what's true, what's not, what matters, what doesn't.

And we're trying to actually be honest about it, and we don't care. air who it offends. Right. I'm not trying to smooth the edges of the story out or anything like that. So you can get a premium subscription at breaking points.com. Appreciate it. If you do, you can go sign up there. Otherwise, just follow us, you know, subscribe on YouTube to get us in your feed. And wherever you get your podcast, it's very helpful. But this has been, to your point, a watershed week. I mean, it's been like, we've got the drip drip coming out for a couple of years now, but nothing like the geyser of the last, you know, several days.

And while we're on the subject of gratitude for viewers who are making this possible, I was think, you know, is Mexico watching fish? It's a good time for contemplation. And I was thinking about how last year we didn't go to the show because my wife had just gotten out of the hospital with complications from chemo, which damn near killed her. And to think that now, like a year later, we're back on the beach and, like, celebrating it. And like throughout that whole thing, you guys were so cool about like missing shows, being late.

Like that was that was really, that was really moving. So I just, you know, really appreciate that. And also my mother-in-law to like watch the kids the whole time. Big thank you to Virginia. Oh, that's. So. So, and now I'm recharged. Ready to go get these Epstein goons.

So in a way it was great timing. Perfect. You were recharging your battery just as. the world needed our super soldier Ryan Grimm most. Yeah. Well, as we said, we have a lot to get through today. We're going to start actually with Epstein because the drip drip is continuing, but also what's important is putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

And there are a few people better equipped to do that than Ryan Grimm. So we're going to start with... I've been loving your reporting on this. Oh, I've been addicted. You've been going through it like a pro. It's addicting. I mean, the Epstein library is addicting on the DOJ's website, which is a weird thing.

You don't, not many people get addicted to the DOJ's website. You can also now go through J-Mail. We have all of the latest volume 11 up on jmail.world, which is a project with Dropside. I find that even more addicting because it's like being in the Sims. Right. And you can, and you can then like see the ones that came right before it and you can put it in time. Yes. It's incredible.

It links to the articles. It's like, yeah. It's a technological feat. It's very, very cool. Yeah. So folks should also go there if they haven't yet. We put in for a Pulitzer. Like they wanted to do it.

I was like, you want to understand that the Pulitzer is housed in Columbia, right? Like, we're not getting a Pulitzer. We deserve one. Yes, you do. Like, if it was a fair fight, we would get one. Yeah. It's the most innovative journalistic project, I think, ever on a massive data set. And it's the biggest story in the world, so it deserves it.

I was like, I'm not sure if you've followed the news around Columbia University lately. It's not happening. Don't think they're doing an Epstein Pulitzer. No, not to drop site. definitely not to drop site. But it's free to apply. I was like, look, it doesn't hurt to apply. Yeah, no, that's true.

A lot of new details to go through. So we'll start with Epstein. We're then going to have Van Lathen join us once again because Renee Goods family testified in a hearing yesterday. We have clips from that. We're going to talk about it with Van. And just Democrats on the ending the government. So the government shutdown technically ended yesterday.

The quote, quote, partial government shutdown technically ended yesterday. You probably didn't notice. I didn't. Nobody noticed. Even in D.C., nobody noticed. Cruise right through customs. Yep. Oh, good point. So we will be talking to Van about Dem's decision when it came to reopening the government, how many joined with Republicans, that sort of thing. And the United States shot down an Iranian drone yesterday.

So we are going to bring you the latest on that story as well. Elon Musk's ex-offices are being raided in Paris. Musk is now in a war of words with Spain. And this is related to teen social media bans, but the raid is also related to some of those horrible images that were being created on X. Not long ago, you probably remember that. When Grok went completely, yeah. Yep. Grock did his thing.

We have a wild clip of Chuck Schumer about Israel and Gaza. We'll break down the latest new drop site reporting to talk about there. And then the blowback guys are here to talk about Cuba. They were just in Cuba. Yeah. Trump just put out an executive order declaring Cuba to be like the worst of the worst of the worst. Did that happen while they were there? They did. And he's pressuring Mexico not to sell oil to Cuba because somehow it is the business of the United States who Mexico sells oil to and who Cuba buys it from. They're trying to completely send Cuba back to the 17th century. So we're going to talk. to Brennan and know about what conditions are like there and what the politics are. Yeah.

Now and then and negotiations between the U.S. and Iran, which most people suspect the U.S. is just buying time so they can get all their assets in place and then launch an attack. But they have moved to Oman at the request of Iran. They've moved from Turkey to Oman. We might even get Kushner involved in them. So we'll talk about them. Yeah, lots to go through. All right.

Let's start then with Jeffrey Epstein. Melinda Gates was on NPR and asked the most uncomfortable question. Anyone could ever ask an ex-wife? You may remember. The one that an ex-wife is probably not that unhappy to answer. It's a little bit better than being Bill Gates' current wife. As she basically says in the clip, she's asked about the detail of Crystal and Saga covered,

where in the files, this was in an Epstein draft to himself, those drafts are a very bizarre. Too hot to send. Yeah, too hot. too hot for send, but it was, the drafts are a very strange window into Jeffrey Epstein's mind. And in a draft, you may remember, he mentioned Bill Gates, a Russian prostitute, and procuring for Bill Gates the type of medication he would need to slip into Melinda's diet somewhere or another to prevent her from getting an STD.

Yeah. So Melinda Gates was asked about this. Let's roll the clip. I think we're having a reckoning as a society, right? No girl, no girl should ever be put in the situation that they were put in by Epstein and whatever was going on with all of the various people around him. No girl. I mean, it's just, it's beyond heartbreaking, right? I remember being those ages, those girls were.

I remember my daughter's being those ages, right? So for me, it's personally hard whenever those details come up, right? Because brings back memories of some very, very painful times in my marriage. But I have moved on from that. I purposely pushed it away and I moved on. I'm in a really unexpected, beautiful place in my life. So whatever questions remain there of what I, don't, can't even begin to know all of it.

Those questions are for those people and for even my ex-husband. They need to answer to those things, not me. And I am so happy to be away from all the muck. The emails in the files suggest that Bill Gates had additional affairs and that he tried to get medication to treat a sexually transmitted infection and that he was going to give you the medicine without you knowing. His representative has said all of this is false. It is not on you to have to respond to the details of that alleged behavior, but I wonder what your dominant emotion is when you read these news articles with these details.

Sad. Just unbelievable sadness. Unbelievably sadness, right? And again, I'm able to take my own sadness and look at those young girls and say, my God, how did they? How did that happen to those girls, right? And so for me, it's just sadness. Sadness for, you know, I've left, I had to, I left my marriage. I had to leave my marriage. I wanted to leave my marriage. I had to leave the, I felt I needed to eventually leave the foundation. So it's just sad. And Ren, that's pretty close to confirmation from Melinda Gates. The divorce itself was related to the Epstein allegations with Bill Gates. And they're not allegations. I mean, it's the confirmed relationship between Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously, there are all kinds of different allegations that circulate around that, but it's not an allegation that they had a significant relationship. I'm not insignificant relationship. And in that clip, the way the question was asked by NPR, what is your dominant emotion when you hear that, as opposed to did your ex-husband secretly drug you to, out of love, of course, to prevent you getting used to be? No, she wouldn't. But what is your dominant emotion when you hear that clip?

Maybe sad, too. I'm in anger. Like, what a, what a scumbag? I know. Yeah. And, you know, she has said that she told him, this guy is a creep. So, like, she didn't see him, you know, doing whatever satanic stuff they're doing. But being around him, she was like, he's a creep.

You should not be around him. And if you keep being around him, like, this is not going to work. And it's indicative of your. character as well. She was dead on. From other people who have met him, I've gotten, people have said the same thing that like, your creeper like just went up immediately. Yeah. And that goes sadly to the next guy we got to talk about. We can put up C3 here. One of the, for a certain subset of like Gen X particular left wing people, this one has been just a body blow.

Woodstock 99 crowd. Yeah, if you put up A3, and before that, you know, everybody older than that too. Yeah. Put up A3. So this is an email and people have tried to do some cope around it saying, well, it's not from Noam Chomsky's email. So it's maybe it's not him. And basically what he, what the one that's circulating comes from one that Noam did send directly to Jeffrey Epstein. and Epstein took out some personal stuff in it and then sent it to another friend saying,

this is the advice that I got from Noem. Now, the personal stuff, I think actually plays into this, and maybe we can have Glenn on and we can talk about this. But we can move on from that for now. But basically, what he tell, Epstein says, I'm getting all of his terrible press for all of these women accusing me of abusing them. What should I, you know, what should I do? And this is, this is 2019. This is deep into Me Too. And it's, I believe this is long after the Miami Herald has done the investigation

into the way that what he did in Florida was way worse than he ended up getting charged with. Because what he did was extremely clever for his own rehabilitation. there were dozens of, as we've reported, dozens of victims that they could have chosen to charge him with. Yes. Some as low as like 14. He got them to make the one charge somebody who was 17, which was very smart on his part because what did he immediately start doing?

It was a prostitution situation. She told me she was 18. Turns out she was 17 and a half. and so many people in the elite world were willing to be like, you know what, hey. At age, a consent, it's 16 in some states. And also he hangs out with the Secretary of State and former presidents and he's on the board of this and that, and he's a billionaire.

Sure, it's fine. But by 2019, so even if you allow for that, that cleverness that he was able to pull off with the Costa and the Bush administration. By 2019, people knew the contours of that deal and the context of it. And so what Noam Chomsky basically tells him is do not respond at all. Like if you respond at all, it's just going to give the vultures. He says, you know, what the vultures dearly want is a public response,

which then provides a public opening for an onslaught of venomous attacks, many from just publicity seekers and cranks of all sort. and it goes on and on. And so to see, because some of us, our cope was, Chomsky responds to everybody. He emails everybody. He'll speak wherever.

He'll take any interview request. He has this voracious curiosity about humanity. Epstein was funding MIT. Obviously, Chomsky wants to do what he can to get funding for MIT. So you could like, you can get there and be like, look. But to see the level of emotion that he had in his relationship with Epstein, knowing that so many other people who met him are like, this guy's a creep. It's devastating.

It doesn't mean that he participated in any of the sorted stuff, which, and I've been consistent on that. People want to cancel every single person who's on an email with Epstein. but I don't think that's fair. He emailed thousands of people. The people that need to face accountability and shame are the ones that participate knew about and didn't say anything or knew about him participated in what he was doing.

We know at least Chomsky had a very close relationship with him and we know that he was a creep and that it was easy to tell that. And we know that he's telling him, he's guiding him how to overcome this like wall of allegations. It's rather odd to see deference given to a billionaire supporter of the global intelligence state as well, right? So, like, it's one thing, if Epstein had been a sort of left-aligned billionaire. And I mean, I don't mean Democrat.

Like, obviously, he was a dumb donor and he was close with the Clintons. It was like Labor wing of Israel, yeah. Well, we can put A2 up on the screen. Yeah, Labor wing of Israel. But A2 is the news yesterday from the... the House side, the Clintons have broken an agreement to be questioned on camera to avoid those contempt of Congress charges. It looked like they were barreling head on into just a couple of weeks ago when they sent that letter and said, no, this is all. We're not doing it. They're not going

to pull Steve Bannon and go to prison for defying the subpoena. They're now going to be on camera. But that's a reminder that, again, it's why of all the billionaires who have Nome Chomsky's deference and trust and support, Epstein's a odd choice. It's the worst one. It's a odd choice. Like, who else you got? It's going to be worse than that. That's a weird one. Yeah. And it gives, don't want to derail the entire show.

Chomsky was an anarchist. and in the time that I was coming up, actual socialism had been somewhat significantly discredited on the left because of the collapse of the Soviet Union. And a lot of like American idea in the late 80s, 90s about communism was not that it was this bulwark against American imperialism and like a vehicle for the world. rise of the working class, it was like this was a sclerotic authoritarian thing. And that gave

purchase to anarchism to really take hold in like the 90s and early 2000s as an alternative that radicals could glom onto. And you always had the socialists and communist saying that's fake. That's just that's just glossed over liberalism. And it allows them to say, I told you so. Because the answer to how. could he align himself with somebody like this would be so interesting well it's actually it really was just glossed over liberalism that's so interesting canadian women are looking for more more to themselves their businesses their elected leaders and the world are out of them and that's why we're thrilled to introduce the honest talk podcast i'm jennifer stewart and i'm katherine clark and in this podcast

we interview canada's most inspiring women entrepreneurs artists athletes politicians and newsmakers all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. It seems like just yesterday that the Two Guys Five Rings podcast

was in Paris for the Olympics. And now we're heading to Milan for the 26th Milan-Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers and we'll join athletes from 93 countries as Two Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps for the 2026 Milan-Kritina Olympic Winter Games.

Open your free IHart Radio app. Do we mention it's free? Search two guys' five rings. And listen now. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm in Alec Lamoma. It's 1969.

Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almermata, Morehouse College. The students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die.

1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A4, let's put A4 up on the screen. This is an Epstein email to Peter Thiel, where Ryan, this gets into a lot of the drop site reporting here. Epstein, February 28, 2016, as you probably know, this is to Peter Thiel, I represent the Ross Childs. I was hoping to figure out a way for the bank that has 160B, and management can do something in tech, best client lists in the world, prehistoric products, it can wait.

Good luck in China. This is like a poem, like a sick poem. I'll be in Europe again, 2028, then island. So if you want to come around the world going west, dot, come to the island, dot. Or if you would like to meet in Saudi at the end of the month, question mark? And then Teal says, certainly not in Saudi. Just think I will avoid the Middle East for the next decade or so should be back on East Coast in late April. May sometime in NYC or on island, then.

Dot, dot, dot. Lovely. They have us hanging here in suspense, but Ryan DropSight has done a deep investigation into the Epstein-Roschild's connection. Right, yeah. So people can go read that. That's Arianda Rothschild,

who herself is a fascinating character because she's not a Ross Child, just from Central America, married into the family, and then became the first kind of married-in-person to run the bank, and she developed a very close relationship with Epstein, which she denied,

but which our original emails showed. Not true at all. This further tightens it and shows that he was using his linkage with her and the bank to try to appeal to teal here. That's 2015. One thing I was proud of from this weekend as I had a nice scoop before we hit the tarmac,

which was we found this three and a half hour conversation between Epstein, Ehud Barak, and Lauren Summers. That was huge. And pulled a piece out of it where he is telling Ehud Barak, who's still Minister of Defense. So this was February of 2013. He didn't leave the ministry until March of 2013. So he's plotting what his next move is going to be.

And Epstein is like, you should be on the board of this company called Palantir. And he spells it for him. Incorrectly. Spells it incorrectly. It's like traitors where they write the names. That's all I could think of. And then Barack spells it back to make sure he's got it right. and gets it right.

I know, and Epstein's like, yes, yes. Even though it'd been way off when Epstein had spelled it. And then they asked him to spell Teal. He gets that wrong at one point. Andresen Horowitz, he gets that wrong. Meanwhile, but he's, meanwhile, Summers is there. And he tells, and he's like, who's Andresen Horowitz? He's like, oh, Larry's an advisor to them.

He gets a million dollars a year from them just to give them advice. Larry can't even be like, I'll be spelled it wrong. So after that, Teal, Epstein. invests heavily in Peter Thiel's companies. 2024 Palantir and Israel strike up a strategic agreement. Trump basically has a strategic agreement with Palantir now. So this is interesting to see the kernels of this relationship starting to bloom. From all of the reporting you've done on Ehud Barak,

what then big picture geopolitical significance, would you, or how would you, or how would, would you describe the relationship in that context? What does it mean that they were forming that bond at that time? Ehou Barak played a, well, he goes back to a Ron Contra, as you're learning in this book that Emily and are both reading now, Prophets of War by Ari Ben Manash. Barack comes up there in a bunch. So he goes back to early, which Epstein was also involved in. But after he leaves office in 2013, he tries to come back in 2018-19, Epstein died. I think derail's helped to derail has come back into politics. He played a central role in the creation or the advent and the expansion of Israel's cyber weapons and cybersecurity industry. Barakas on all of these keyboards. It's like his thing.

It became his thing. And it was Epstein who guided him toward this thing and telling him like these people like Teal and these other. this is the future and you need to be a major part of it and you can open the doors you can you can then be the one that can sell you know you can build relationships with african countries with asian countries with around the world um to help these israeli companies get in and because he because barak had been at the center of israeli intelligence for so long he like had those relationships so Epstein played a central role in the expansion of the surveillance state, global surveillance state that we have today and that continues to expand.

So this is one of the things that I've been going through the last 48 hours is mentions in the files of the NSA. And this is really interesting. Actually, in the bigger context that you just mentioned, Epstein was obsessed with the idea that you can use NSA-style decryption on human cells. And so he was engaged in this project, and maybe we can talk about this next week or something, but where he's trying, he's asking people to hook him up with Israeli hackers. I'm looking at one email right now to this guy who was at the Gates Foundation at the time,

Boris Nikolich, who says, Jeffrey Epstein says, let's think up NSA types for Washington meeting. All these mentions where do you have contacts at NSA? Can you find me the best codebreaker NSA type? I mean, it's just like over and over again. And that's really interesting that he was helping Ehud Barak build the Israeli surveillance state and then looking to mine codebreakers at the American surveillance state. Yeah. For his science, like he had these, what's the right? Like these almost like millenarian ideas about technology.

Like he can bring about. Right. And unusually, he brought it about. I've seen a lot of people who've watched his like interviews. with either listen to that conversation or they watch his interview with Bannon and they're like, oh, this guy's just a donor. Yeah. Who's just like highfalutin and ideas, but he's actually a dummy.

And I would just strongly encourage people to give that analysis a second thought. This guy, this is not a dummy. This is a guy who can explain and understand extraordinarily, he can take extraordinarily complex systems, whether it's global finance, global politics, science and medicine, global surveillance, he can understand them intuitively, and then he can explain them in a way that allows you to understand them. That is an extremely rare quality in somebody. That is not a dummy. That is, that is not somebody just sitting around pontificating and mansplaining. Like, don't underestimate this guy, is what I would say. Well, one person who,

was not charmed by Jeffrey Epstein is Norm Finkelstein. Let's put this one up, 8-5. Oh my gosh, Ryan. This is a great email. This is fun. So, yeah, so the context here, you've got some reporters who are kind of reaching out for comment, right? Yeah. About Dershowitz and Epstein. Norman Finkelstein 2015 responds. My guess is if Epstein put your daughter at age 15 in such a position, you wouldn't publicly describe him as a, quote, friend and person of, quote, integrity.

In fact, I would hope that you'd promptly throttle both Epstein and Dershowitz. Epstein is C-Ced on this email, by the way. Yes, she C-Cs, yes. Probably Dershowitz. I was just going to say, yeah, I bet Dershowich is one of the redacted names. And we had Dershowitz on the program,

a couple years ago before. Oh, Rising. We had a mind. Yeah, Adam Rising. And I remember before Finglstein was, so the celebrity he rightfully is today, I asked him about his, the context for this is Dershowitz basically destroyed Finklstein's academic career

because he didn't like a review that Finklstein wrote of a Dershowitz book. This is another piece of drop site reporting. Well, that was actually, that was about the Israel lobby, Mersheimer. That was Biersheimer. That was, okay. that Epstein and Dershowitz both collaborated to try to undermine the book, the Israel lobby, with Mearsheimer and Walt.

They probably did the same thing with Finkelstein too. Well, absolutely. Collaborating behind the scenes. Was Epstein, like, involved with going after Finkelstein? Like, they could, like... Probably. Yes. Oh, the other fun thing, we don't have them here.

Epstein and Woody Allen hated Alan Dershowitz. So much. That, which is the funniest. The girls were gossiping behind his back. It's the funniest ending to this that Alan Dershowitz has dragged his own meager reputation through the mud to do defend Woody Allen and Jeffrey Epstein to the bitter end. And now to find out they despised the guy. They thought he was full of himself. But worst, they call him a completely shameless name dropper.

Yeah. Like, they just go in on him. Especially Woody Allen. I mean, Woody Allen just will not. Because sometimes his wife is writing from Woody Allen. He's writing for him. Either way. Sometimes she's just emailing as well.

It's just a lot of Sunyi and Woody in these emails. But the... And Epstein says to Woody Allen, no, no, he's even worse than you think. And Woody Allen's like, that's not possible. He's like, I'm Woody Allen. There is no bottom to what I think of Alan Dershowitz. Those are his best friends. What a team. What a team just going around the world. All right. There's also an email we should talk about here where Jeffrey Epstein, March of 2018, subject line writes to a redacted recipient, quote, he was passed away. That's the subject line. And it's a actually, it's the quote of an article that I think was published in the mirror in 2002. And Epstein put in Robert Maxwell and then went to the

quote, which is, quote, threatened Mossad. He told them that unless they gave him 400 million pounds to save his crumbling empire, he would expose all he had done for them. In that time, he had free access to Margaret Thatcher's Downing Street, Ronald Reagan's White House, to the Kremlin, and to the corridors of power throughout Europe. Maxwell passed away, passed on all the secrets he learned to Mossad and Tel Aviv. In turn, they tolerated his excesses, his vanities, an insatiable appetite for luxurious lifestyle and women. He told his controllers who they should target and how they should do it. He appointed, he appointed himself as Israel's unofficial ambassador to the Soviet bloc. And Ryan, this is, it's a quote.

It's quite interesting that Epstein, yes. And then he says he was passed away. Passive voice. As BFF is Maxwell's daughter. Right. Before Jeffrey Epstein, there was Robert Maxwell. Like the biggest, the most similar scandal to Epstein today is actually Maxwell when he was killed as this is the, as this is the allegation from Epstein,

Maxwell, and it was similar also in the sense that there were so many obvious clues that he was in Israeli intelligence asset, including his burial, like in Israel at the most prestigious place, including Ari Ben Manash saying out loud, he was an asset and I worked directly with him,

including all of this evidence. And you'd have the pretext, press calling it a giant conspiracy theory. So it was similar in that sense where, and the public, eventually I think that followed it was like, no, yeah, don't believe the press on this one. The conspiracy theory is true. And now it's a pretty, I don't, now it's barely even a controversial thing to say that Maxwell wasn't an Israeli asset. Yeah. Like he just, he just was. Yeah. And he was, he also was like Epstein, a bit of a con artist and a flim flam and, um, and frittered away, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars, according to Ben Manash,

the thing that actually broke his empire was there was this intramural dispute with the Israeli weapons traffickers involved in Iran-Contra. And so they moved their money from banks that were guaranteeing Maxwell with the Iran-Contra money to the East Block. So the money would be safe from the CIA, which they were now starting to fight with. And so once that money got pulled now, Maxwell all of a sudden couldn't meet his monthly obligations. Maxwell then threatened that he would blow the whistle on all the things that he was doing for them. And just a pro tip for assets out there, don't do, you're not going to win that one.

Don't do that. Like, don't warn that. If you do it, just do it. don't tell them do X or I'm going to expose all of your secrets. Don't do that. You're not going to

make it to that point. If you're going to leak stuff leak it. Blow the whistle. You might end up falling off the back of your yacht. Don't walk into the room with the whistle and be like, I'm going to blow this if you don't give me. Yeah, exactly. You might wind up

falling on up a window or off the back of your yacht or one guy, they said he got, he'd played tennis, and like two days later, they said he died of an aggressive form of cancer that he picked up like the day before. Yeah. Like, oh, that's interesting how that happens. Yeah. It's one of those things. One of those crazy things in life.

So, yeah, pro tip, don't do it like this. And this is, I mean, the gist of what it's like going through these emails. And it's probably everyone's having this experience on social media right now. you're seeing little tidbits in these single emails that like this seem to confirm Epstein buys the conspiracy story. It's not really a conspiracy anymore, but what has been treated as a conspiracy in the past about Robert Maxwell being, quote, passed away. And it's just in the subject line of an email. So there are, it's wrong to call them gems, but like gems in the context of a getting to the bottom of what's actually going on, they're everywhere. And that's what

makes it so addicting to be buried in the Epstein Library is you never know which silly email riddled with typos is going to be so significant. And one, you know, throwaway email he sent, what, 2018, it has huge consequences. And it's, it, I love it in the sense that it's teaching people history and very recent history that is still quite relevant to us. We're going way long. We should probably move on. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, so Van Lath is joining us next to talk about the ICE hearings. Canadian women are looking for more.

More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women. Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Inalek Lamuba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. Have both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale.

In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almemada, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest.

It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seems like just yesterday that the Two Guys Five Rings podcast was in Paris for the Olympics, and now we're heading to Milan for the 26th, Milan-Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen-Yang.

And I'm Matt Rogers, and we'll join athletes from 93 countries as Two- Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps for the 26th-Malan Cortina Olympic. Olympic Winter Games. Open your free IHart Radio app. Do we mention it's free? Search two guys five rings and listen now. Congress probed the behavior of ICE in hearings yesterday. Miramar Martinez was there, who was shot five times by ICE agents in Chicago, but survived one of the more high-profile survivors of ICE violence. We're going to be joining in a moment by friend of the show Van Lathen discussed the hearings. Let's start first. With Martinez up on Capitol Hill, this is B1. As my attorney showed the court, the disgusting text messages, Exum sent to his fellow border patrol buddies, literally bragging about how many times he shot me.

I got sick to my stomach, seeing how a federal law enforcement officer will talk this way about shooting me, a woman who he swore into, was both eye-opening and hard-bearing. breaking. It's true that in the body camp footage, the CBP officer told you to, and I'm so sorry for saying this, the officer told you to, quote, do something bitch before he fired? Yes. It's disgusting, shameful, and it gets worse. Ms. Martinez, these are images of texts sent by the agent who shot you. And they're actually disturbing to read, but I think it's important for the public to see this. The agent

LinkedIn article about your shooting and texted, read it. Five shots, seven holes. I fired five rounds, and she had seven holes. Put that in your book, boys. Oh, well, it is what it is. Shit happens. This is someone that works for the United States government. I fired five rounds, and she had seven holes. Now, he was talking about you, and it's our understanding. that he was actually bragging about his aim, shooting an unarmed American citizen. Is that right? Correct. And so we're hearing from Miramar Martinez because she survived that attack.

We didn't hear from Renee Nicole Good, though we heard from some family members, didn't hear, obviously, from Alex Prattie, who's no longer here to testify. But Van, I'm curious, when it comes to your... when it comes to your audience, is this level of brutality kind of breaking through? And how have you, how have you seen the conversation around immigration enforcement change and also welcome to the program? Oh, thank you very much. Glad to have you back. I hope you had a good time down there. I see no tan. There was work to be done, I can tell. I'm feeling good and right. Um, uh, now, what I'm seeing from my audience is rage. I'm seeing rage and I'm seeing rage. And I'm seeing rage. And I'm a sort of wake-up call.

Now, Ms. Martinez, you guys just featured her. That was a story that I saw you guys cover, that I saw majority report cover, that I saw a lot of places in independent news media cover, but I did not see too much coverage of what happened to her anywhere else. I say that to say, that I think that there were overreaches, brutality, and violations of the Constitution by ICE prior to Renee Good that the general public wasn't aware of. I don't think they understood. I think people got the sense in cities, particularly with large ICE deployments,

of how ICE was roaming their communities and papers please sort of culture, scaring people that they share their communities with. And there were headlines being made, don't, don't get me wrong. But as far as ICE agents taking out their guns, shooting people and putting their lives in danger, American citizens and undocumented people, I think that Renee Good and Alex Priddy was a wake-up call to those people. And I do not think there is a way to put the genie back in the bottom. Let's roll this clip of Renee Good's family testifying at the same hearing yesterday, B-2. My name is Luke, Ganger.

And I'm here with my brother, Brent. Renee Good is our sister. We're here on behalf of Ney's big family and those who loved her. We're here to ask for your help. I was talking to my four-year-old last week when she noticed I was not doing well. I had to come here today and talk to some important people. She knows that her aunt died and that somebody, caused it to happen. The deep distress our family feels because of Ney's loss is in such a

violent and unnecessary way is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress, and desperation for change. In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation, thinking that perhaps Ney's death would bring about change in our country. And it is not. The completely surreal scenes taking place on the streets of Minneapolis are beyond explanation. This is not just a bad day

or a rough week or isolated incidents. These encounters with federal agents are changing the community and changing many lives, including ours, forever. So, Van, I kind of disagree respectfully with Renee Good's brother there on the point he's making about feeling as though her death has not brought about change. Public opinion has put a lot of pressure on the Trump administration, and that really, I mean, the Renee Good death was the moment that changed from my vantage point, at least.

I'm curious what you make of that, and one thing I wanted to ask, too, is people talk, and we've talked here about the kind of Dem Tea Party moment, feels to me like the Abolished Ice movement has become a really critical part of, like Obamacare for the Tea Party movement was that rallying policy question. It feels to me like Abolish Ice has kind of emerged as that for the Dem Tea Party moment. Yeah, so I'll take your first question first. I tend to agree with you. I think from his vantage point, and I hate to speak for him, but when you are the victim of an injustice that's as profound as the loss of a family member, then the only elixir is for the source of that injustice to be held accountable and then for that to stop.

it would probably be difficult for somebody that's dealing with that type of tragedy to see what we're seeing, which is that event being a flashpoint for really a political and cultural awakening for a lot of people in terms of like how far ice has gone, what ice really represents right now. You're seeing it in all the podcast spaces with a lot of the guys who are part of laundering Trump's reputation. prior to the election and just how they're being held accountable by their audiences for what they told people they should do, which is go out and support this regime. All of that's political. I think what would be cathartic to that gentleman probably is to see, one, there be accountability in the death of his loved one, and on top of that, to see ICE abuses stop or for there to be some plan for them to stop. And we frankly haven't seen that. quite yet. We've seen a lot of political tug of war happening, but nothing that seems like an

answer to the problem of how they're being deployed in certain cities. To your second question, which I have totally forgotten in that really articulate and eloquent rant, what was it again? About how, so you have some Democrats voting with Republicans on the shutdown yesterday, and basically the Dem Tea Party moment seems to me like it's coalescing around abolishing. ice in the way the Republican Tea Party was coalescing around Obamacare. And I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Yeah, that's funny. How can I be...

That's funny. The Democrats don't get it. And it's... I feel like you're about to uncork something, Van. No, it's... You know, I had a homeboy back in the day, and he used to like to, you know, have occasional drink on Sunday night. You know, you come and he polish off three or four, 12 packs.

And he'd be like, he's a light drinker. I remember his girl telling him, hey, enough. Like, enough, enough of it. Like, everybody had had had enough. And I remember talking to him, talking to him. We go out one time and he goes, hey, man, I'm just going to stay around here. I was going to have a couple of, I'm like, nah, man, you have an issue, you have a problem. We're dealing with you in love, but I'm telling you this is a serious thing.

You're going to lose your family. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. And it wasn't until he was seeing his kids at Barnes & Noble that he really got the idea that she wanted something different. And he had a serious problem. The problem was a part of his makeup. And it was time to address it. I wonder when the Democrats are going to see themselves in the mirror. Like when they're going to, what Barnes and North? noble visitation or we're going to have to arrange for them for them to see that they are orphaning their base. As you see me search for words, I really don't know how to articulate it.

They do not get it. We're not going for it. That's it. Like, we're not going for it. We're not going for it. It can't be negotiated. There's so many things that we're not going for. Like, it can't be negotiated.

You can't talk nice about it. I'm aware that up on the hill. Everybody, there's all these histrionics, and then they all go out and have a state together and then go to Epstein's house and all of that stuff like that. I get that that's how it goes. But, like, at this point right now, that's over. We want this to stop.

And how much ever pain has to happen to the general American public and project for this to be headed off. For this, for this part of it, ice, ice overreaches, for us to say, hey, abolish this, this can't be reformed. The guts of it have to be torn up. Immigration enforcement is a part of having a country. You're going to have borders. You're going to have immigration reform and enforcement, excuse me, enforcement, should I say? You guys piss me off with the question. I'm so mad at the Democrats. I'm not coming across as articulate as I would want to.

But I have conversations with politicians. I talk to them a lot. They called me. And they honestly don't get it. They are still in the phase of this where they are attempting to launder the reputation of ice, to convince me and other people like me, the usefulness of ice, where they're attempting to soft pedal it. And it really is, I'm not even baffled.

I'm fascinated. Right. I think that a lot of people, if they had the conversations that I had, they would be gobsmacked by some of the political weakness. And I get it. It's complicated. I understand that it's complicated. But I was on the phone with somebody a couple of days ago. I said, man, figure out what the – figure out what desperate looks like.

Figure out what truly obstructionist looks like. figure out what 10 is and go there. Figure out what 10 is. There are all kinds of things. ICE is funded for a long time. I get it all that stuff. Figure out what 10 is and go there. Because the disconnect between what I feel like,

the political intelligentsia of the left in Washington, that disconnect as it relates to the people that I'm having conversations with that listen to my show that talk to me, it's that. They're talking about this issue as if it's regular where there are people who are seeing Americans killed on the street and they're like, what are you guys going to do? And it feels like for a while,

and tell me if this connects with what your conversation had been like, it feels like for a while Democrats thought their answer needed to be to grow a beard and start using profanity. Yes. And like that that was going to show like how serious they were about changing, you know, their approach to Trump and to and to politics.

I see I can't tell if I see a little bit less of that. Like they started realizing, okay, it actually, it's not authentic. And like, if it's not coupled with something meaningful, it doesn't, doesn't really land. What, and so maybe this is like an answer to what they could do. Like the MAGA movement, they, they were serious about changing the country. Like they, like they told you, if we. get into power, we're doing, we're doing, we're going to build the wall, we're going to do mass deportation, we're going to do tariffs. Like they, they had these big ideas that stood in for

the expression of the anger that people had. Like, you've got this anger and we're going to do these big fundamental things. Democrats don't seem to have that. Like, they've got profanity, some of them, some of them have grown beards, but they're not really, there's nothing that you can grab onto that you can say, oh, if they get into power, this is how the anger that I have what's going on is going to be expressed. Abolished ICE would be one of those things. To say, like, ICE is irredeamable. We're getting rid of it. We're still doing immigration enforcement. But this rogue agency that's killing people in the streets, like CBP is actually like killing more people in the streets, deal with that separately. They got to go. Like something like that. Like, does that

does that track that like they feel like they feel like all they have to do is channel the anger by sounding angry themselves but without any kind of meaning or substance behind it? I think you're dead on and I think that comes

or that exists because they have for so long been a harm reduction party and that robs you a vision. Right. The Republican MAGA, Trumpism wing, they provided a vision to America.

Now, in my opinion, an opinion of a lot of people, that vision was grotesque. But it was a vision nonetheless. And behind that vision, in order for them to be taken seriously, there had to be action. Now, that action is disorganized. It violates the Constitution. It's inhumane.

It's the entire list of things. But it had to exist. It had to be there. Abolish ICE is vision. defund the police. I know you guys don't like it. That's a vision statement. That's a statement.

It's a big idea. It's a big idea, right? It's something that says, hey, let's reimagine that. And this and whatever. Is it the most popular thing? No. Is it something that should have been discussed for the merits of what it actually was? Yes.

Are some of these things jarring and shaking to the milk, toast, boule bourgeoisie person who doesn't want to see society set on flames and reimagined. Cool. Get all of that. The question is, what's your version of that? Like, what is your vision? Okay, we know that this needs to stop. How do you imagine it stopping?

How do you imagine immigration enforcement? How do you imagine a path to citizenship? How do you imagine humanity for people that we share borders with? What is your version of this? And it's very difficult. They are so concerned with not being rude that it seems like they care more about that than actual victory and the protection of the people who put them in power. In the politics of it, the political value of being able to milk the energy to have the hearing

like they put together yesterday without putting their policy. Like you said, whatever they're reimagining, putting it on the table, you can talk and end up never actually. Republicans have this with Obamacare. It's a perfect parallel. They never put anything. Right now they don't have anything. It's been 15 years.

Right, because their resistance to Obamacare has nothing to do with what we're trying to talk about, which is how are people going to get to the doctor? Yeah. Okay? Like how are people going to get care? And I think that really on both. sides of this. There is something happening and I really desperately hope that we can take advantage of the moment, people that want to live in a society of freedom. And people are really getting

to a point where they're starting to ask a question. And it's a question that all Americans should always have asked themselves, but it's a hard question to ask. Like, what's in this for me? I think the biggest thing about what ICE is doing and the overreach is people are seeing in their communities, in their societies, this dysfunctioning chaos. And they're going, is this changing my life? And are things cheaper? Are society's better? Or are you injecting a whole bunch of chaos into my world for political reasons, for your power? Right.

We voted for a long time. time to, I guess, we know what it's in, what's in it for Trump. We know what's in it for Chuck Schumer. We know what's in it for all of these people. They get power. They get to continue to pull the strings of society. Well, just ask yourself, like, what's in it for you? What have you gotten for this?

Have you gotten better medical care? Do you get lower grocery prices? Is any of this working for you? And I think on both sides of the aisle, people are going, it doesn't seem like anyone's really thinking about me. Yeah. Van, always a pleasure to have you on. Look forward to your next appearance. Higher Learning podcast. Everybody check it out. Thanks so much for joining us. No problem. I wore this hat because next time I want to come. I want to fish. I want to fish and go to fish.

I'm in the day and then we go to fish in the evening. Ryan, don't leave me out, brother. I'm in. You're in. You're in the crew. All right. See you. All right. Up next. Iran talks are moving to Oman. Is it just a, they just like faking this so they can get their asses? in place to bomb Tehran again? Probably. We'll talk about it next. Canadian women are looking for more. More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast,

we interview Canada's most inspiring women. Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Honest Talk Podcasts and IHartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Seems like just yesterday that the Two Guys Five Rings podcast was in Paris for the Olympics. And now we're heading to Milan for the 26th Milan-Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers and we'll join athletes from 93 countries as Two Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps for the 26 Milan-Cortina Olympic Winter Games.

Open your free IHeart Radio app. Did we mention it's free? Search two guys' five rings. And listen now. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Inalek Lamoma. It's 1969.

Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's Almermata, Moore House College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history. Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution.

I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Details out of the Arabian Sea. Let's put this first element up on the screen. As Fox News says here, the U.S. military shot down an unmanned Iranian drone after, quote,

it aggressively approached a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier with unclear intent. A U.S. Central Command spokesperson told Fox News, the USS Abraham Lincoln was transiting the Arabian Sea, approximately 500 miles from Iran's southern coast, when in Iranian Shahed 139 drone unnecessarily maneuvered toward the ship, according to that spokesperson for CENTCOM. Ryan, this is a reminder of how fragile the conditions in the Middle East are right now. And I know a lot of people on the right who are disappointed that Trump has not made good on his promises in Iran. But reminders.

They got a drone. Reminders of plenty, yes, they got a drone of how quickly, quickly, quickly this can escalate. The second an American is hurt, you have a completely different war. The asymmetry here is wild. Like, if we try to add up the amount of money the U.S. spent to shoot down this, I don't know, what is it, a $20,000 drone, it would reach well into the probably hundreds of millions. I mean, if you count the billion-dollar aircraft, although we can keep aircraft carry, we can keep using that. The missiles, the like, the equipment. This is a fundamental material problem for the U.S. going forward that it's up against this new cheap drone warfare,

and it is using its older, like, multi-billion dollar assets. where in a war of attrition with somebody who can actually produce them, like, consistently, like China, we run out of like $10 million missiles pretty quickly, and they can just keep slapping together these drones. And I will see in this case, like there's a, you and I may disagree on this, but there's, I think, an interesting test case happening right now for the peace through strength doctrine at its best. So if Trump de-escalates by having.

aircraft carriers in the Arabian Sea and threatening Iran, but not actually going much further, like doing what they want him to do, and they being the neo-conservative bulwark that remains in power through Lindsay Graham and many, many others here in Washington, though not many others around the country, average voters, not a huge constituency, of course, but by not giving into their demands for like full-scale war and using the big stick, it's possible that fewer people die and you're spared a broader conflict. But just, yeah, at this point I would take that because my expectations of Trump are so low. But I'm really tired of him taking credit for not doing bigger wars that he didn't have to do at all.

He's like, look at Venezuela. Like, we went in and we went out and could have done a long-term occupation and invasion. Well, you could have also just left them alone. Like, nobody was like... We still don't know that it's not going to... It's the same thing with Iran. I mean, there's so many people who were taking victory laps after June. Like, oh, you guys were wrong.

Yeah, we only did 12 days. By the way, I'm happy to take an L. Happy to take an L. But it's February, and here we are back again. Yes. Why? Like, again, why? Like, what?

And here we are with Delsi Rodriguez in charge of Venezuela. Like, what was your, what were you actually doing? Yeah, good question. So nuclear talks are kicking up. So we can put up C3. So talks are scheduled now in Oman. They will not be their call, news media is calling them between the U.S. and Iran, but Iranian officials are saying they're, there are indirect talks in a sense that the U.S. is still refusing to kind of be in the same room. Cutter is going to be there and they're going back and forth.

There's some reporting out of Iran that they've gotten hints that Kushner might end up becoming involved because we can put up C2. This is from Amwaj Media, which is very well sourced among Iranian insiders. They were saying that one of the problems with the last round of negotiations besides the fact that Trump killed all the negotiators is that Whitkoff consistently had to fly back to the United States to get answers, which you can imagine how frustrating that is. You're in the, you're in an office, you're trying to buy a used car. Salesman's like, I got to go talk to my manager, see if I can give you, you know, a discount on this true coat. And he comes back 10 minutes later.

He's like, great news, you know, as long as you do the 10-year warranty, we can do this true coat at this, at a discount. Imagine he had to fly back halfway around the world every time. And then the Iranians are sitting there twilling their thumbs. Oh, and And then they get bombed. So you can imagine that those are not ideal negotiating circumstances. So they're saying, like, can you get some more people who are empowered to actually make deals? To me, the whole thing is absurd. Like, it seems pretty clear Trump is not serious about negotiations and is just stalling

because they launched most of their, you know, anti-missile defenses during the 12-day war. And so they need to restock so that they can defend Israel from whatever counterattack comes. They can defend their other assets around the region. And they need to get all of their own naval and air assets close enough to Iran so they can launch an attack. That seems to be what they're doing. In the past, every time that they have invited the Iranians to negotiate, including Soleimani, who I'll keep reminding people, Kassam Soleimani, was in Baghdad when he was assassinated. because he was lord there for negotiations towards peace.

Like, it's what, it's Trump's move. He thinks it's clever. He thinks nobody sees it coming. And he's correct at first because that's like a maniacal thing to do. Right. Yeah, because for thousands of years, like the one thing that even like Angus Con or whatever would like recognize and be like, yeah, people go out and talk. You're like, it's just not pragmatic to kill that person. We'll talk to them.

And then you can go back and kill each other later. Trump was like, oh, but what if we killed them at the negotiating table when they're not looking? Have you thought of this before? Have you thought of that? Yeah. So, you know, there's only so many red weddings until people show up at the wedding, being like, so that's why I suspect that the Iranians are assuming that an attack is coming. You got to, you still got to take the invitation. You can imagine being tapped for these negotiations if you're not.

Iranian diplomat? No, I cannot. Like, uh, really, this weekend? Helping my friend move. Like, this is a chance of a lifetime

would really love to do this, but, you know, if they can move it to Amon, oh, they moved it to Amon. Oh, God. There it is. Can't do Amon,

actually, turns out. Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm gonna warn out in Amon. Yeah, things got a little out of control a couple years ago when I was there. We'd really love to. We'd really love to,

but, yeah, to, can't go to Amman. So, yeah. And there's also reporting in that article that you can go read that, which backs up reporting that Jeremy Scaeho had done earlier at DropSight, which is that Iran had felt that the best way to de-escalate these Trump attacks was to forecast exactly what they were going to do, tell Trump ahead of time, so that there's minimal amount of damage and no actual damage to people, to American troops. And to announce ahead of time, we consider, after we respond, we consider this finished. And so that's what they did multiple times. And there were people arguing at the time inside Iran, this is only going to convey weakness and invite more attacks. That you have to hit Trump harder.

And the people who advocated for the restrained response, a lot of them were killed. And now they're being replaced by the people. who had said, you're going to get yourself killed with this restraint. What Trump doesn't want is a forever war that he can't control. He's been very clear he hates those. So what we need to do is show him that we can pull one of those off. So we need to hit American assets in Iraq, American assets in Syria, American assets in Doha, and they need to hit Israel as much as we can. And they've even talked about killing as many as 500 American troops to send a signal that there are going to be consequences to you continuing to attack us every six months. Yeah. They feel like that's, this faction feels like that's the only way to get this to stop, that that's the only language Trump understands.

And the people in the room to argue against it were killed by Trump. So maybe they're all bluffing and or maybe the U.S. can just annihilate their, you know, response capacity. Who knows? And hopefully we won't find out. Yeah, hopefully. But that's the current state of play. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, just the drone strike yesterday is, again, a reminder of how quickly this can completely change.

Completely. You can wake up one day and an American could have been killed on an American. aircraft carrier and we could be sending more more troops. We could be sending boots on the damn ground in a heartbeat because of how fragile this is. Seems like just yesterday that the Two Guys Five Rings podcast was in Paris for the Olympics. And now we're heading to Milan for the 26 Milan Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers and we'll join athletes from 93 countries as Two Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps for the 26 Milan-Cortina Olympic Winter Games.

games. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Do we mention it's free? Search two guys five rings and listen now. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. At a Morehouse college,

the students make their move. These students including a young Samuel L. Jackson locked up the members of the board of trustees, including Martin Luther King's senior. It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles.

I'm Minnick Lamumba. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts. Black history lives in our stories, our culture, and the conversations we still having today. This Black History Month,

the podcast, I didn't know. Maybe you didn't either. Digs into the moments, perspectives, and experiences that don't always make the textbook. Let me tell you about Garrett Morgan. Brough had to pretend he didn't even exist. just to sell his own invention. Listen to I Didn't Know.

Maybe you didn't either. From the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or simply wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.