Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 2/5/24: Black Voters Stun MSNBC With Trump Support, Biden Ask Fetterman For Young Voter Help, Trump Prosecutor Admits Affair In Huge Blow To GA Case

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss black voters stunning MSNBC with Trump support, Biden asks Fetterman for young voter advice, Trump prosecutor admits affair in blow to case.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Ready or Not 2024 is here and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election. We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

What do we have, Crystal? Indeed we do. Nice to have you back, sir. Thank you. I've slightly recuperated. I'm doing my best over here. Voice is a little rough, but we're glad to have you in the chair. We'll get through it. Lots to get to this morning. We have some new just devastating numbers for Joe Biden that we can go through, some interesting comments from voters, as well as we head into the general election. We also have some big legal developments and a giant admission from Fannie Willis down there in Georgia. So we'll break all of that down for you and what it means.

And also Trump apparently sort of assuming that he is going to be convicted in one of these cases and is planning for how he's going to get through that and win the White House back anyway. So we'll tell you about all of that. We also have the U.S. swearing that the Middle Eastern war has not widened even as we bomb three different countries over the weekend. So incredible that they are still trying to even make that claim and quite humiliating and embarrassing for them. Speaking of humiliating and embarrassing the media, many things to report on there, including a new report that CNN's staffers themselves, employees of CNN, are accusing

that network of journalistic malpractice. I'm taking a look at a new IDF admission that they were in fact behind this Telegram channel that was publishing on a daily basis, basically like violent snuff style content, unbelievable. And we have a guest on to break down a new report about who exactly are the millionaire and billionaire moguls behind the gigantic funding push by AIPAC in the Israel lobby. So a lot to get into this morning. That's right. I'm really excited for that, in particular, to talk to them. And we've got good news for everybody. The RFK Junior Focus Group in Michigan is actually today. Our producer and our team is on the ground there in the States.

We have a discount going on for the election season where you can help us out, breakingpoints.com to support work like that, that we continue and will be continued to expand all throughout so we can give you the very best coverage. Really excited actually to hear what they have to say about the libertarian push. There's been some talk of that lately and ballot initiatives, but more importantly, who are you? You know, what do you want? Why are you supporting RFK Jr.?

And what are some of the things that are animating his support, you know, that very much could turn the tide, which we will talk about very shortly. Yeah, the primaries, not that interesting. Unfortunately, I wish there was like some real democracy choice going on. There wasn't really there. I would say RFK Jr. is the big wild card for the fall. And so we're watching this with great interest because I genuinely am curious to know what these individuals say. I feel like I have a great sense of like who your typical Republican is, what the different archetypes are, who your typical Democrat is, what the different archetypes are. I want to know who the RFK Jr. supporter is, what is bringing them to the table in terms of a

possible third party effort and what they're looking towards for the fall. So I'm going to be really interested in that. Really exciting to see the results. As always, the premium subscribers actually get early access to the full focus group and all that as a thank you. And we will continue to provide all of that. So again, breakingpoints.com if you can take advantage. But we've got some stunning new polling out, speaking of the general election, that we can go ahead and start with and put this up there on the screen. I mean, this is one of those where one of the worst signs for Joe Biden yet. In the latest NBC News poll, Donald Trump is leading Joe Biden at 47 to 42 percent. And the top line number there for Trump

is actually gone up since November. Joe Biden's number has gone down by two. Let's go to the next part, clear, please, because this is equally important, where you can see the approval rating in an NBC News poll at the start of reelection for everyone for the last 20 years. George W. Bush started off in 2004 at 54%. He was riding off the high of his post 9-11 approval. Barack Obama in 2012 had a 49% approval rating. Donald Trump had a 46% approval rating. Joe Biden coming in at 37%. He's putting up Jimmy Carter level numbers in his year out ahead of the overall election in 2024. And Harry Enten, who works over at CNN, he's actually a pretty good polling analyst,

flagged something which I think is probably the most important data point of this. This is the first time that a Republican for president has held a consistent lead in national polling since 2004, which is absolutely stunning. Crystal, I mean, there's a couple of things that we should go through here, and we're going to cover some of the pluses and the minuses. I guess today will be the minus side for Joe Biden. Approval rating, dismal. Approval rating, though, is not necessarily equal to the overall votes. As we saw, Trump could have a 46. He could still lose the overall electoral college. One of the problems, though, is that for Democrats, the ability to win the popular vote has been a foregone conclusion since 2004. Trump is now currently in a position, polling-wise, we don't yet know whether that's accurate, where he does appear as if he may be able to edge out in the

popular vote, given that Republicans actually have may be able to edge out in the popular vote, given that Republicans actually have a minus two popular vote advantage in the overall electoral college. That's the worst possible position, I think you could say, fairly for Joe Biden, especially when we think about it on a state by state level. The only counter case I could give to you this is that, look, every election is unique. And I know that sounds trite, but George W. H. W. Bush, I'm sorry, in 1991, had a 90-some approval rating after the Gulf War, and he still went on to lose the 1992 campaign. So it's not always one-to-one. But historically, that's more of an aberration than it is the norm. The norm is that when people disapprove of your handling on the economy, your overall job performance, and you're losing in almost every single national poll,

then you're not doing so well. At the same time, special elections, every time people go to the ballot, they don't seem to be going Republican. So I don't know. I just want to present the fair picture of what we're seeing. Yeah, I think the other counter you would say is what's unusual about this election is you basically have two incumbents going up against each other. Yeah, that's a good point. And Donald Trump also has a very low approval rating. So what do you make of that? I mean, I do think it is this bizarre situation where most of the country would say there's nothing I would like less than this rematch to occur. And yet we're staring down the exact rematch that is like the nightmare scenario for the majority of Americans.

I think you have a situation where if it was almost any other just sort of normal run of the mill Democrat, they would beat Trump. I think if you had any normal like run of the mill Republican, they would beat Joe Biden. And so it really is a test of like, who does the country hate more? Who are they more dissatisfied with? Who are they more uncomfortable with leading the country going forward? forward. Chaos under Trump or, you know, someone who is incredibly aged and showing that age and declining on a daily basis to the point that he won't even sit for, you know, basic interviews and is effectively hidden by his team from the American people. And this is very, very, very apparent to people. They've been telling pollsters routinely every single time they're asked, yes,

I think Joe Biden is too old and not just Republicans and not just independents. Democrats felt that way and feel that way as well. And yet here we are, you know, with an incumbent president deciding to run for reelection in spite of the fact that the American people overwhelmingly feel like he is not really up to another four years. So that's kind of the bottom line of this choice here. And, you know, I feel like there's just a level of denial and insanity on the Democratic side. We might cover this clip tomorrow in the show. Dean Phillips finally got asked to go on MSNBC after, you know, he announced four months ago. They never once had him on until after Joe Biden has basically like totally locked up the Democratic nomination, just completely romped in South Carolina. Then they decide to have Dean Phillips on.

And they're like, why aren't you doing better? You know, if Democrats want another choice, why aren't you doing better in the polls? And he's like, you literally didn't even tell people at ISIS I have 5% name approval because they did so much to shut down any concept among the Democratic base that there was any option available other than Joe Biden. And at the same time, they're saying that it is mission critical and absolutely existential that Donald Trump be defeated. Yet they're putting up this guy who is like the weakest, lamest, worst candidate you could possibly have in there to try

to beat Donald Trump. So it is a real level of insanity that has taken hold in the Democratic Party, where they have just anointed this man who is so incredibly weak and where people feel so, so nervous about the idea of whether he can even make it through another four years. Absolutely. And just to underscore this, one of the key themes of some of the things we'll talk about right now are somehow Biden, his lack of strength doesn't just come from independent voters or from Republican overperformance or enthusiasm. He's losing key

parts of his own coalition. MSNBC, shockingly, aired some comments from Black voters that they at least were probably taken by surprise, where they aired some of the criticism of Biden. And not only that, about why Trump support, at least marginally, amongst Black men is beginning to increase. Here's what they had to say. Some appeal there for some black men with Trump. What is it? Money. Money? Yeah.

I mean, you know, Donald Trump has a reputation of being the money man, so. I just think that Donald Trump, in spite of all the craziness he may have in his head, reading some of the things that he talks about with business, I can kind of agree with as far as business-wise, because I'm trying to grow my business. A lot of people admire the persona, and they want to be him. You know, they want to enjoy the perks that he has he seems to always be able to circumvent the rules you're hearing that too that there are some people in

your orbit who are either voting for Donald Trump or considering it for sure a lot of my friends are obviously my age so we're a little younger we We've only voted once, you know, for a president. And Trump is kind of all we know. And they're kind of Trump and Biden. They're like, well, we were broke with Biden. We weren't with Trump. And that's kind of the only thing that I'm hearing over and over again, over and over again, is that, well, Trump, we had money.

Well, OK, I hear you guys. But personally, morally, I couldn't see myself. Hey, very honest, I think, in terms of that portrayal. With Trump, we had money. With Biden, we're broke. I mean, listen, people are pocket voters. Are all people like that? No, not necessarily.

As we saw in the 2022 midterms, people did not vote with the economy as number one on their mind. They voted with abortion and would stop the steal, very much so in order to have democratic overperformance. So again, I can sit here and I can make the case every single which way. But I do think that there is a major peril there for Biden, both within his coalition. Second to that is a lot of what's happening right now with Israel, with younger voters. Let's put this up there on the screen. Politico's Jonathan Martin, who's a very astute political columnist, wrote this just yesterday, quote, forget no labels. Biden's third party peril is on the left. Young Democrats, however, are finding U.S. support for the Netanyahu war effort is untenable, potentially

costing the president millions of liberal votes. And the major headline actually out of that is that, quote, the latter is to include a multi-pronged offensive that will currently launch soon against Kennedy, Jill Stein, and Cornel West, some of which will come from the campaign, some from outside entities. We will set this up directly. It is us versus them. Us is voting for us, them voting for a third party or Trump, as one Biden official has put it to me. So in other words, I believe that is called vote blue no matter who. Voter shaming.

Voter shaming. Definitely worked against Jill Stein voters and others. And look, I mean, at a certain point, I think people who are young in particular, and that's one thing that that young black gentleman in the clip did resonate with me, is he's like, listen, you know, I'm a young guy. Trump is kind of all we know. And, you know, we've been covering politics, and I think about it for so long, even though I'm only 31, yeah, almost 32, is that it's still been seven years. That's a long time, you know? And before that, it was Obama. It doesn't feel like, you know, Trump in many ways has been around since 2011 with the birther conspiracy and has been

kind of the center of a lot of our politics for so long that people no longer want to believe some of the myths and other things that are out there. Now, it might be true that the suburban moms and white men, college educated and others, may definitely be swayed by the Trump is an existential threat and others. But I think key parts of the Democratic coalition don't want to be shamed anymore. Younger people who voted for Bernie Sanders, younger people and others who I've met who voted for Jill Stein. I'm not sure they're ready to jump on this. They're like, I've just heard, I've seen this movie so many times. Why should I believe you? I think that's a potent thing. I thought the same thing listening to that young man speak, which is like,

this is normal for him. Yeah. This is just politics. Like the Trump era is all that he knows, all that he has seen of politics. So the idea that you're going to terrify him like the world's going to end if Donald Trump gets back in the White House, like it just doesn't have the same resonance. Yes. Because he's seen it and he was like, yeah, I didn't, you know, it was chaotic. I personally, he says, I personally morally could never support him, but he doesn't feel like the

world is going to absolutely fall apart because, again, that level of chaos and like political insanity is just politics to him. That's just normal politics to him. You know, in terms of the crumbling of the coalition that put Joe Biden in office last time around, you know, it is a massive, massive problem for them. And I think Jaymar cites this in his piece. This poll just came out that showed 50 percent, a majority of Democratic voters believe that Israel is perpetrating a genocide. And Joe Biden obviously has given them unconditional support, done everything that they have wanted him to do. He has done. So yeah, for voters who have any sense of morality,

aiding and abetting a genocide is going to be a very difficult pill to swallow. And it's different than, oh, you may not love his position on this or that issue, or you may not be inspired by him, but suck it up because Donald Trump is on the other side. For a lot of people, that is just a bridge way too far. And there's a lot of indicators that the Biden team has finally woken up to the fact that people are not just going to get over this.

They're not just going to move on. There was another piece that quoted Biden campaign officials who said they are now looking for other paths to win in Michigan that do not involve Arab-American support because they basically see like this has gone on too long and there's basically nothing we can do at this point to win these folks back. But it's not just Arab-Americans. It's not even just young voters. There's a big piece in The New York Times about how many black faith leaders are disgusted with the Biden foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel. Actually, MSNBC had another analyst on who said, listen, when I talk to black voters,

they say, what are we doing sending all this money overseas and entangling ourselves in all these wars when we've got problems right here at home? So there is also mass dissatisfaction across all kinds of key demographics in the base with regard to his unconditional support for Israel. And I do feel like even if there's a ceasefire negotiations going on right now, even if the war ends now, that is not something that people are just gonna get over

and completely put in the rear view mirror. And I think they have actually sort of realized that, but don't know, you know, but obviously like actually putting the screws to Israel or trying to change course isn't on the table. Instead, the plan is we're just going to demonize anyone who would consider supporting Jill Stein, consider supporting Cornel West, consider supporting RFK Jr. We're just going to say, but Trump, but Trump, but Trump and hope and pray that that old playbook works one more time. It's a really foolish strategy because, you know, if you look at the vote totals, I have Michigan here in front of me from 2020. You know, Biden won 2.8 million

votes. Trump won 2.65. You know, Biden only won by a margin of 154,000 votes. That's not a lot. I mean, Trump got 47.8 percent. So we're only talking about a couple of margins in a different direction. And Trump wins the state. Don't forget, he won by ten thousand votes in 2016 in the state of Michigan, which stunned a lot of people for the because of the election polling previously. But people like was it Debbie Dingell and other voters? I believe Michael Moore as well had been like, I think Trump is going to win in Michigan. Same thing. I mean, let's say he has an enthusiastic coalition of people who are willing to come out and you've got just enough people who either don't come out to vote or they vote for Cornel West or they vote for Jill Stein or they vote for RFK Jr. That's enough. You know, it really doesn't take a critical mass. It only takes a couple of million people in the right

states or maybe not even a couple of million, let's couple of million people in the right states, or maybe not even a couple million, let's say 1 million people in the right states, which is not that much. If we think about the overall 170 million people who voted in the 2020 election, and things can go completely in a different direction. Everything is a game of margins here. And I don't think that the Biden team is really considering and thinking about that. I also agree with you on the Israel point because it's kind of like if we were on the two days penultimate to the withdrawal of Afghanistan and Biden was like, okay, guys, I'm going to change course and we're going to stay. It's like, well, the chaos is baked in,

man. You know, we already watched the whole thing. It's like at this point now you just look vacillating and weak. And even, you know, with a political system as it's currently designed, they're not going to, even if there was a ceasefire or whatever with Israel, you think things are just going to end. You're still going to have a refugee crisis. You have all this diplomatic negotiation. Now we're thinking about two-state solution. Are we going to recognize the Palestinians or not? What about post-government? It's not like people are going to stop starving overnight or anything. This story is going to be here for years. I mean, that's the one thing. When the war initially started, we looked at this and we're like, this is a years-long thing now.

It's years long, no matter what. Even if you wrap things up, a ceasefire after one week. Rafa, no, sorry, Gaza City is gone. So now what? You know, it's like this is a story that's going to be at the front of the headline in the same way Ukraine is. You know, Ukraine fighting there has been very down. You know, it hasn't been as bad in terms of the front line. Everything is cold.

But it's still existential for the people in Ukraine. The situation going forward, are they going to be in NATO? Are they not going to be in NATO? Are we going to ship weapons to them? What about the Brits and all that? These things take a long time. Look at Iraq. We've been there for over 20 years and we're still haven't met. We bombed Iraq yesterday. You cannot put these things back in the bottle, which is why the initial days of policy matter so, so much, especially to a lot of Americans and voters. As we saw with the Dearborn Michigan mayor, he's like, listen, if you don't want to do anything, that's fine. But maybe I'm just not going to vote for you. Yeah, that's right. And this is a dyed in the wool Democrat,

you know, who is a Democratic mayor. And he won't even meet with the Biden campaign manager because he understandably finds it insulting that what you want to talk to me right now about is electoral politics. When I personally know constituents whose family members have been killed in this conflict and you want to talk to me about electoral politics, like get out of here. And he was on CNN. He did an excellent job because he got asked the question of the like, well, you know, what about Trump? He was like, how basically I'm paraphrasing. This is not how you put it, but like, how dare you? Where's your question to Biden of like, why are you risking democracy in order to back this insane right wing Netanyahu government?

Why are you doing that? That's the real question to ask here. So, I mean, there is there's a lot going on here. But, you know, one of the things that I was thinking about is since Trump burst on the scene, he has become the central dividing line in American politics. And it's one of the things that I've hated about the Trump era because it basically squeezes out any of the real like vision, policy direction questions that, you know, that I would like our politics to actually center on. It just becomes about how do you feel about the personality of Donald Trump? The Biden team's assumption is basically that is going to continue to hold and he's going to continue to serve as this incredible force of negative polarization where Biden can basically do anything. So long as he is not Trump, that anti-Trump coalition is going to hold together just like it did in 2020.

And they are going to suck it up and they're going to come out again enthusiastically in high numbers to vote against Donald Trump. And I'm just not sure that that cake still bakes the way that it used to. I think it's worn a little thin. I think people have justifiably have other concerns that they're worried about and they're not willing to just vote out of fear anymore. And the terror of potentially, well, what if Donald Trump gets elected? Because the reality is they've already been to that movie. They know they may not have enjoyed when Donald Trump was in office, but they survived. They got to the other side of it. And then there's this other aspect of, you know, Trump is an incredible showman. And when so much of our politics has collapsed to like vibes and theater, you got one guy who's like

charismatic and has swagger and another guy who they won't even let do interviews. So there's that piece as well, which again, I wish that didn't matter that much. You know, I wish it wasn't all a show. I wish it wasn't all just the political theater and the vibes of it. But that's a reality of how American politics operates at this point. Absolutely. That's really well said. And yeah, I mean, we would be stupid as analysts not to note that that is very obviously the case. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case.

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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her. Until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying.

This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month, and We Need to Talk is tapping in.

I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me, and he's getting older now, too, so his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is, and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's, like, really the GOAT, like, he's a legend, so he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a

lot to me, just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy. Or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's move on to the next part here, because it highlights again some of the problems for Biden in that showmanship piece. For the second year in a row, Biden has decided not to take part in a pre-Super Bowl interview. This is crazy for a variety of reasons. The Super Bowl is the most watched event in all of America. I actually went back and checked, Crystal, out of the 100 top broadcasts of 2023, 94 were football related. The only thing this country still watches, the only thing that we're all tied together is football. I don't even watch football. I wouldn't even think there would be 94 football, but I guess every week, whatever. Different markets, games, et cetera. People in the comments can tell me all about their wars with their regional broadcasters. I've even, I fail

to understand how exactly you're supposed to watch football in this country across five channels, streaming services, et cetera. The point is, is that everybody watches the Super Bowl, pretty much. The vast majority of Americans will engage with the Super Bowl in some way or the other, either online or actually watching the event live. The pre-Super Bowl interview is a hallmark tradition of the American presidency. They don't do it for kicks. They do it because it's the easiest way to reach the vast majority of people when they're getting ready for the game. The second year in a row now, deciding not to take part in the interview. And it's, look, I mean, this is not going to be a very tough interview. It's like with a friendly news organization too. And yet the explanation that they give is totally ridiculous when they're

belying the fact that he's afraid that he's old and that it's going to come across the more that people see him, the less they're gonna vote for him. Here was their excuse, the Biden campaign, to CNN when asked about this. Just gotten this news from CBS that the White House has turned down a request for the president to participate in that traditional interview before the Super Bowl.

So I don't have to tell you, this is the night where I think more Americans tune in than any other night of the year. It is the most popular programming of the year. So why was that decision made? Well, yeah, I'll certainly be tuning into the game, but I don't know about you. During pregame, I'm usually still making my chili or putting my beer in the cooler. So I don't know how many eyeballs we're going to lose during pregame coverage. This campaign is definitely going to do everything it needs to do to reach the voters who are going to decide this election. That's why we're running an ad during the Grammys tomorrow night, for example. Yeah,

but running an ad during the Grammys, I mean, that costs you something. This is free advertising, if you will. This is millions and millions, tens of millions of eyeballs. So why would the president not want to do that? It seems like an easy decision. Again, the president's going to continue to campaign and continue to hold interviews across the country from now through November. I'm not too concerned about pregame coverage right now. Okay, so their reasoning is, well, we buy ads during the Grammys. So in 2022, sorry, 2023, 12.5 million people watch the Grammys. I want to meet these people and be like, what's wrong with you? But that's a second story. 115 million people watch the Super Bowl in 2023. So 10 times the number of people watch the Super Bowl as opposed to watch the Grammys. And yet

they're like, well, we bought ads at the Grammy. What are these people doing? Unless the less that we see of Biden, the more that we see of something else that may have caused you to vote against Trump is their best strategy. Now, I do want to be honest. I think this is probably their best strategy. The more that people see of Biden, it's terrible. I mean, people are like, wow, this man is so old. I literally cannot believe he's the president. He also is very reluctant. He's given less interviews than any prior president in modern American history, press conferences as well. Why? Because he talks out of turn and he's probably going to get asked an uncomfortable question or two, even in a friendly interview, Crystal, about Israel. And what's he going to say? I don't know. He doesn't know. He barely even knows what he's

going to say about Israel, about the border, about all these issues where he's dramatically, you know, underwater with the American people, not to mention he could have, you know, some flub in terms of his age. So this is a real problem for him. I mean, I just think it's an immense sign of weakness to not take part in this interview. And A, it's undemocratic, you know, in terms of not wanting to show yourself. But B, it does show you how that this is their this is their only chance that people come out to vote against Trump. It may work, too. That's the crazy part. I think you're right that if I was his campaign aide, if I was dedicating my life to getting Joe Biden reelected, this is probably a choice I would make as well. Same. Because of two reasons.

Number one, it's painful to listen to him. Every sentence is like torturous and it's like uncomfortable because you are wondering at all times if he's going to be able to stick the landing or if his brain is just going to like melt in front of your eyes. So there's that. And then there's also the fact every time he does open his mouth, he's like a little bit too honest. You know, like when he got asked about the our strikes on the Houthis, like, hey, is this working? He's like, is it working? No. Is it going it working? No. Is it going to continue? Yes.

So I think there's also a fear of the old man being a little bit too accidentally honest in the insanity that is our foreign policy and many other policies besides at this point. And that's not the only time when he, as you put it, Sagar, has spoken on a turn and gotten himself into hot water. I mean, how many times have there been comments about China and Taiwan that were all over the map that

caused all kinds of diplomatic issues as well? So they're like, you know what? Best thing we can do is keep this man under wraps, record some ads where we have 100 percent control over what the messaging is and how he appears and what we're doing here. And then, you know, just like hope and pray that Trump is enough to keep people in line once again, one more time. Lynn, let's hope that those midterm results, let's hope that those special election results carry over for Joe Biden as well. Yeah. I mean, like you said, it's not a bad strategy at the same time in terms of bleeding young voters. Let's put this up there. This is a hilarious little tidbit that we can show you. He says, the White House, in a reflection of their public confidence regarding the politics of Biden on Israel, has arranged a call with Senator John Fetterman. Fetterman has

delighted in trolling left-wing critics by resolutely standing with Israel since October 7th, telling me young voters should consider the implications of enabling a candidate who would likely give Netanyahu even more of a free hand. So I guess, what is it? The Fetterman justification is, well, but Trump, which, I mean, maybe he's right, but we don't have necessarily the counterfactual because Trump is not currently the president in terms of how he's handling this. And actually, it has been very quiet in terms of what he actually thinks about Israel and Gaza, which again, I always sense from that man, he has timing. He knows exactly what's popular, what's not, what to speak out on, other than when it concerns actually himself and his legal problems. But he seems to think that Fetterman

can bail him out or give him some advice with young voters, which is especially ironic, Crystal, because if we go and we poll the crosstab polling, not just on Israel, but with Fetterman himself, Fetterman has had an increase in popularity in Pennsylvania. You want to guess with whom? Boomers, all right? Boomers are loving, yeah, boomers and wine mobs. They're loving John Fetterman. They like his shtick. Actual young people, no, they're not very pro-John Fetterman at all. Yeah. You know, he's no longer pothead Fetterman and talking about dress code and all that. The Israel stuff and, you know, basically being a hardcore Biden stan has definitely won him, you know, points with the MSNBC faithful, but that's not young people.

Well, and even the MSNBC faithful, they're in favor of a ceasefire and they're overwhelmingly opposed to Biden's policy on Israel as well. So if you're, I don't know what you're going to John Fetterman for. I mean, I guess it's maybe you can commiserate about both of you having trouble completing a sentence or formulating a thought as evidenced by, put this up on the screen. Reporter at the Intercept, Prem Thakur, he interviewed John Fetterman about his support for suspending aid to UNRWA at a time when, you know, Gazans are literally starving to death while allegations against 0.04% of its staff are investigated versus his opposition in doing the same for Israeli forces who the ICJ and the U.S. court both say are plausibly committing a genocide. Here's what he said, quote,

well, again, it, well, it's not. We need a full investigation and find out just how much a part of it was about that and how much, you know, the old question, how much they knew and when they knew that the intercept. So you're saying that for Israel as well. Fetterman. Yeah. OK, so good. All right. Well, good.

What? That's the man that you're going to for advice on Israel and appealing people. And I don't know what it means. I don't know what it means. But there you go. That's the man that they're seeking advice from. Him and Morning Joe, apparently, Sagar. Yes, that's right, Morning Joe.

We can't forget, actually, our own James Lee, who does partner content for us, he's done some fantastic segments. He was on the ground in Nevada, and he decided to go and interview some people who decided that they weren't going to vote for Joe Biden. So let's hear from them in their own words. Do you think Joe Biden has done a good job in the last three or four years?

Terrible, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but he he does a terrible job. I have a daughter that's just retired from the military. You know, I'm saying Biden versus Trump. Do you have any thoughts there? Neither one. Neither one. Because I know Nevada is a swing state kind of it's definitely not a shoe in like California. So even with those conditions, you would still say maybe if it comes down to it, Trump versus Biden, you would still sit it out. I would have to sit it out with Trump versus Biden. I thought that was interesting. In terms of not only in terms of him saying it would sit it out, but when he said, I also noted what he said there, Crystal. He said, my daughter just retired from the military.

And, you know, these are people who are watching. We have three American service members who were just killed. And it's one of those where if you have a family member or any others who is in service, especially if they're deployed to the Middle East, you're rightfully asking very legit questions. They're also, just to highlight Biden's strategy here. This is something I've been thinking about a lot, where how cursed we are as Americans to have two successive presidents obsessed with cable news. And it's funny, too, because Biden was somebody who would make fun of Trump for his obsession with Fox News and Fox and Friends and all that. But it turns out he's just the liberal side of the coin. Let's

put this up there on the screen. Biden is, quote, obsessed with Morning Joe. They say that the White House aides appear on MSNBC's Morning Joe. They're often booked between 7 and 740 because they want to reach who? President Biden. I remember when people would make fun of Trump aides for doing this. They say Biden's years-long love of MSNBC's staple morning show affects how the White House runs and who Biden listens to. The president often calls Joe Scarborough, who is now a harsh critic of Donald Trump, to get Scarborough's take on issues and sometimes vent about media coverage. During the day, he has often asked his staff whether they saw a story, a poll, or a segment that has been on the show. He includes show regulars in regular

off-the-record conversations with experts. And Biden pays particular attention to morning time regulars such as Mike Barnicle, foreign policy expert Richard Haas, and historian John Meacham, who has assisted on several Biden speeches. I mean, this is beyond parody. It is literally the inverse to the Fox and Friends madness that happened. And yet, you know, I mean, by the way, courage to Alex Thompson and Axios for actually writing this story, because it does show you really who Biden is. Biden is a dyed in the wool, normie, MSNBC lib. And he's, it's like, to understand that is to understand so many of his proclivities, his understanding of American politics, and so much more. And it also just shows us that the

rotting husk of cable still has so much power in this country because the right people watch it. They're obsessed with what these dwindling idiots say on cable television. It's just stunning to me. Well, and if you were going to pick one show on MSNBC, which would be like the worst show possible to get advice from, because there are different flavors of liberalism, of Democratic Party obsession liberalism within the MSNBC banner. Morning Joe is the one that's like decorum above all, resistance to Trump above any other like particular policy decision. It's the most conventional wisdom of conventional wisdom. And so the fact that Joe Biden is relying for his reelection on the advice primarily of Joe Scarborough and John Fetterman,

it actually makes all the sense in the world. Yeah, totally. When you look at the decision making and what is unfolding before us and how they are in a horrific position in terms of actually winning reelection. But you're so right. I mean, even down to it has so many echoes of Trump, even down to, you know, the aides trying to get booked in the right time slot to get a message to Biden that he apparently won't receive face to face. He'll only pay attention to it when it's being broadcast on Morning Joe. I mean, that's identical with Trump. Just like Trump. How his aides and his advisors and people wanted to influence him, they would do the exact

same thing. They would try to communicate with him via Fox News and Fox and Friends versus in person because he would take that more seriously. It is a sad, pathetic, degraded, decaying political system that we have here that they are paying attention at all to what any of these blathering idiots have to say. I just don't get it. And especially because, you know, can you read the news? Like, can you look at numbers? I just read a New York Times article three days ago. I just pulled it up here. Quote, more people are watching the Hallmark channel than CNN. The world needs love and Hallmark is cashing in. Hallmark, by the way, is having a resurgence because they find themselves in the top 10 of overall cable

news channels. That's the type of stuff that people are watching on cable. You're losing to the Hallmark Channel. We're talking about CNN and yet the amount of power they still remain and they have in this country, it's just stunning. Look, we could talk about it all day Channel. We're talking about CNN. And yet the amount of power they still remain and they have in this country, it's just stunning. Look, we could talk about it all day long. We can hope for a future. But when you've got a bunch of boomers, and I mean, Biden's not even a boomer. He's like silent generation. Yeah. Who have grown up with this and the power that they have. I like to think that even if I grew up in the podcast era or whatever, let's say, and I was running for office, let's say TikTok, which I'm not on, is as popular, even more popular in the future.

Obviously, you pay attention to TikTok. I'd be like, okay, what are people watching? I'm old. This is the medium I prefer. But these guys are so locked in to their medium. I just, look, it's a different reality that they're living in. That's very key to understand. Very, very key. It is truly a different reality and a complete bubble that they have sealed themselves into. Absolutely. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders.

I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try.

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Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her, until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying.

This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop.

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Now, I'm curious. Do they, like, rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me, and he's getting older now, too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is, and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's, like, really the GOAT. Like, he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family?

It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important. And that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy. Or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's move to the next part here about the Trump prosecutor, Fannie Willis. We brought you guys some of the updates, but this one in particular, it's pretty big. Let's put this up there on the screen. So Fannie Willis, who is the prosecutor in the state of Georgia, who's brought that case against Trump, which honestly was one of the strongest cases against Trump because election law is totally governed by the individual states where they're prosecuting him for interfering in the election. Well, it turns out that the special prosecutor who she hired, Nathan Wade, in November of 2021, she has now admitted after divorce filings in his personal case have come to light that she did have a, quote, personal relationship with that prosecutor that she hired in the Trump-Georgia case. Now, the critical part of this, Crystal, is not the affair and the personal

relationship that she had with Mr. Wade. It's the fact that the state of Georgia has paid him nearly $650,000 for his work as a prosecutor in this case. Previously, eyebrows had been raised because Mr. Wade did not have significant experience. There were a lot of questions in the state like, hey, why is she picking this guy? And secondary to that is that given, and Ryan and I spoke about this, Georgia law is actually pretty clear whenever it comes to corruption and in-kind donations. So if you are funneling money to your lover in this particular case, and you guys are staying in hotel rooms that he pays for and you're not reimbursing for that, you don't make that immediately known to the state, you are in technical violation here. This is, frankly, grounds to fall apart for the entire case.

I mean, Trump, who this and all of this was surfaced by, it seems, some opposition researchers and others. And it just brings the question of like, who do these people think they are? You and I were talking about this yesterday. If you believe the democracy is at stake and Trump interfered, like maybe hire a different guy. Maybe hire the most experienced person. If you are having an affair with this guy, be like, hey, Nathan, let's call it off while this is all going down because even the appearance of this, if it ever got out, it would look really bad. And lo and behold, it looks really bad. It could even be grounds for a challenge. I mean, it very easily could. And then in the court of public opinion, this is all Trump needs.

He'd be like, you are just, you know, you're accusing me of corruption. You're coming after me for breaking the law. Look at you. And this is all anybody needs to discredit the entire case. It's like these people, I really believe that they have such arrogance and they think they're defending the law by being above the law, that they think they're like imperial princes who just shouldn't be subject to the same problems as the rest of us. And in that way, they're just as bad as Trump. They're just as bad in the mindset that they occupy to conduct themselves in this manner as supposed public servants. It is genuinely hard for me to wrap my head around because like you said, I mean, yeah, sure. The people who are coming after you for this are bad faith and they will be looking for anything to tear this case apart and tear you apart, etc.

You should absolutely know that going in, like be as squeaky clean as you possibly can. And yeah, they're still going to come after you and try to tear your character apart, but don't hand them the hammer that they can use to destroy you. I just, I really can't fathom the level of arrogance that it takes to think that this is all going to just be fine and no one's going to notice

and no one's going to say anything when you know, I mean, the stakes are genuinely really, really high. This is one of the more serious cases against Trump, as we've discussed before, because of the fact that it's state law, because of the fact you have this powerful RICO law in Georgia, because of the fact that you have, you know, this wide ranging, all these defendants that, you know, it'd be very difficult for Trump to sort of wiggle his way out of it. You've got they're rolling up.

Some of these defendants are flipping on Trump. And there's a lot here to this case. And even if, and I think it's likely that it doesn't actually entirely kill the case and like the whole thing doesn't fall apart because of her, you know, corruption and affair and the whole situation. I think it's likely that the case continues apace as it has been. But Trump's whole strategy here has been much more about the political than about the legal. In the legal, he's been actually getting kind of crushed in terms of his civil suits

haven't been going well for him. We're about to talk about some reporting where he basically sort of assumes that he is going to be convicted on at least some of these charges. So his whole strategy for being able to overcome both the legal challenges and get himself back into the White House is all political. And you have just handed him the greatest gift of all time. Like, what are you doing? It is insane to me that she thought this would all be fine, that she could just bring in her boyfriend. And again, I don't care about the affair. Yeah, exactly. But bring in your boyfriend, pay him $700,000, go on vacations with him and think that this was all just going to pass without a word and no one was going to notice.

Especially when you have the scorned ex-wife out there desperate to, because that's how it came out, is she included her, listed Fannie Willis's name in a divorce filing. That's how the rumors started swirling and how she ended up being forced to come clean with this quote unquote personal relationship. Yeah. What is it? The whole hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I mean, it's just absolutely insane the whole way that she would conduct herself this way. Let's put the next one, please, up here because it really highlights what you're talking about, Crystal, about Trump's conviction scenario. We actually have a poll quote that we can put, the next one, please, that shows us that Trump thinks he could still win in November, partly by making daily theatrical appearances whenever the courts are hearing his four cases

totaling 91 felony charges. His advisors worry independence will be turned off by a conviction in a jury trial. I genuinely do not know how to feel about this. I think that when criminal charges enter the realm entirely of public opinion, I'm generally of the opinion that it's a wash in that people will be like, well, you know, it seems like the case is political as long as you can discredit it. If it doesn't seem on its face the way that you would think of a normal criminal trial like corruption or murder or something like that, where it's just obvious that you committed a crime or not. If you're able to prosecute the case in the court of public opinion, it could be a wash. At the same time, his advisers are not wrong. I've seen reams of enough polling to say that there are a lot of independent voters out there who say that if Trump is convicted, they will not vote for him in 2024. They could say it now, things could change. I don't know. It's one of those where I'm genuinely of two minds. Some people still have a lot of faith in this legal system. And let's be honest,

a lot of people don't pay attention to the ins and outs. They're like, oh, Trump was convicted. That's crazy. That's it. And then they're going to go on. When's so-and-so's T-ball practice? Like that's how most people live their lives. But if you're enough, if you're engaged, if you're paying attention, if you do get the enough of a sense of politicization in the courts, and especially with all of these, and it seems like some grand thing as opposed to looking at the cases in an individual basis, I could see it being more of a watch and him being able to win and turn into a showman aspect. Yeah, I have a lot of humility about predicting how this is all going to shake out because I think if it was literally any other politician, Republican or Democrat, if they were convicted of any significant criminal charge, it would basically be it for them. I mean,

look at Bob Menendez. He's done in New Jersey, and he hasn't even been convicted yet. Just the allegations enough in the New Jersey primary now, he's at 7% or something like that. It's destroyed him. It's destroyed his career instantaneously. Trump is different, though. He gets away with things that no other politician can get away with. I mean, the Access Hollywood tape would have destroyed any other politician. And yet he turns it around and brings in Bill Clinton's accuser and makes a show of it and, you know, keeps everybody in line and in some ways strengthens their support, strengthens his base support, makes them more enthusiastic and wins. So, you know, yeah, the polls pretty consistently show that if he is actually convicted, it's going to be a big problem for him. But people are also notoriously bad at predicting how they're going to respond to theoretical scenarios.

Yeah, exactly. One thing that might help Trump is the fact, put this up on the screen, in terms of the timing of the cases, the first one that is likely to come to some sort of a conclusion is what legal analysts to the Washington Post called the runt of the Trump cases. It's now likely to be his first criminal trial. This is the Alvin Bragg, Hush Money, Stormy Daniels, 2016 election interference situation that basically they kind of had to stretch the law and do some legal maneuvering

to really make this, you know, a serious criminal charge in order to take this to trial. And so, you know, the fact that it's kind of the weakest, not even kind of like very clearly the weakest case is and the one that people are the least focused on. You know what? Most people who hate Donald Trump, like the thing that they hate is January 6th. And even the documents thing is about his just total impunity and flouting the rules and doing whatever the hell he wants, whatever the hell he wants it. It goes more to the core of what people really hate about Donald Trump. This one is kind of a side issue. Hasn't got a lot of attention. So perhaps the fact that this could be the first thing to come down. And I think it's fairly

decent shot that he does get convicted on these charges because it is New York. And, you know, I think they've got probably enough to keep this case together, although I don't really know. But I do think the fact that this one goes first, maybe that's also another advantage for him where he's able to spin it as just political. He's able to make that case. And then he's able to just sort of transfer that to the other more serious charges. The flip side of that is, I argued at the time, is like you were saying, Sagar, people aren't really paying that much attention to the ins and outs. If you think Donald Trump is a criminal, you think he's a criminal, you don't care if it's like Al Capone

getting caught on tax evasion, you think he deserves to be hit with charges and be convicted in front of a jury of his peers. And so, you know, whether the details are as core to your concerns about him or not, you probably just feel like, yeah, the guy's a criminal. He got caught. He's finally facing some accountability. And that's a good thing. Yeah. Look, I could see it the both way. I'm inclined on the New York case just to say that because they literally had to stretch the list and we covered a lot of the time people want to go and to look. I think we had Brad Moss on to talk about that, about the, you, about the statue and the way it had all been stretched. I think we both agreed that this was clearly the weakest criminal case against Trump and that it is clearly the most capital P

political. And so yeah, for him, I actually think it's a huge victory to have this one go first, because like you said, he can easily cast them. Now listen, we can see it the other way too. He's a convicted criminal. And at the very least, one thing we have to do sometimes is take this outside the realm of the political and be like, this is a problem. Like being in jail is a problem. What if it what if you're on probation? Like don't they have sometimes they have laws that they're like, you can't leave the state without permission of your officer. Yeah, exactly. Like there could be real issues. Now, I mean, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing because he could campaign on that. He could probably raise

a lot of money in that and draw attention. But I do think there is a normie instinct, you know, left in the country for a lot of people who are like, I don't know, somebody who's been convicted. That just seems bad. Like you said, that would be a very much a return to the pre-Trump era. And one thing that has become very clear to me from the actual votes cast in 2022 and special elections throughout 2023 is that there is still quite a bit of instinct on Stop the Steal in particular and on Trump, like odiousness. People are very much willing to vote against now that he is out of office. So I will not discount that as a political force. Yeah, and Roe versus Wade has been way more of a political force than I ever honestly could have imagined. And I think it continues to be, and I think that

continues to show in the election results. So I don't know. It's crazy. I have no idea how all of this is going to, I could, like you said, Sagar, depending on the day, sometimes I'm like, oh, there's no way Biden wins. And other times I'm like, yeah, but, you know, you got these trials, people are just kind of ignoring that this is all going to come down. By the way, on the other trials, few of them have had some delays. You know, it was looking like the documents case may continue quickly and may even come to some sort of conclusion before the GOP nomination wrapped up. That no longer looks like the case. So those Jack Smith cases are getting pushed a little bit like further and further into the future, which

makes it even more politically perilous the closer you get to election day. So, you know, it's kind of frustrating not knowing what the timing of all of these are going to be, because so much of the analysis hinges on, well, when is this all going to actually come down? But with our legal system, there's just, you know, it's just guesswork. You really don't know how long these appeals processes are going to take and what the individual judge is going to decide, etc., etc. We'll see what happens as Trump is just... That's all we can say.

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