Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 2/8/24: Ukraine And Israel Funding Doomed, Nikki Humiliated Losing To Empty Ballot, Trump Says Bud Light Not Woke, Bibi Rejects Ceasefire Proposal, Saudis Embarrass Biden With Israel Rebuke, Saagar Reviews Apple Vision Pro, Hannity Airs Live Hate Crime, Hillary Melts Down Over Tucker Putin Interview, Krystal And Saagar Debate 'No Fap'

Episode Date: February 8, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss Ukraine and Israel funding potentially doomed amid Senate votes, Nikki Haley humiliated losing to nobody on NV ballot, Matt Walsh freaks after Trump says Bud Light not woke, Bibi rejects Hamas ceasefire proposal, Saudis embarrass Biden with Israel rebuke, Saagar attempts to convince Krystal on Apple Vision Pro, Hannity airs live vigilante hate crime in NYC, Hillary melts down over Tucker Putin interview, Krystal and Saagar debate 'no fap' NPR attack.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ready or Not 2024 is here, and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election. We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody. Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have today, Crystal? Indeed, we do. Lots of interesting things breaking. We're gonna give you a little update on what's going on with the whole border Ukraine,

Israel deal, non-deal, etc. Some question marks about what's gonna happen in the Senate today, so we'll break that down for you. We've also got Nikki Haley losing to none of the above. Some amazing cope there. RNC also apparently in shambles, Romney McDaniel apparently leaving, break that down for you as well. Trump is now saying, hey, maybe we should give Bud Light a second chance, hilarious. Bibi rejecting a ceasefire deal and the US getting put on blast from Saudi Arabia for basically lying about what that country's position was with regards to normalization with Israel.

Fox News aired what appeared to be a live hate crime. We'll show you that and tell you the background and what we have learned about what exactly the hell transpired there. Hillary is weighing in on Tucker's interview with Putin. You're going to love that one. The opinion we all needed. And Sagar's got his Apple Vision Pro, which is right here on the desk. So we're going to do a little review. We're going to do a little live debut. I'm going to use it in front of you guys. I recorded a special something at home just to show it to everybody, give a little review.

I am an Apple fanboy, to be fair. So this is not necessarily the most unbiased view. Well, I'm a skeptic. Good. There we go. I think it'll be pretty balanced. I will try and convince you as to why it's a great device and it's changing the world. I was saying I have yet to see a single woman who's actually-

Well, we showed you one video. You found one. We showed you one. Well, we have one on our side. That's all it takes. That's how groundbreaking tech works. Anyway, lots to get into this morning. Before we get to any of that, though, thank you guys so much for helping us get that RFK

Junior Focus group together. Super excited to share the results with you next week. Yeah, that's right. So we are going to be debuting it to everybody early next week. The full version is going to go out to our premium subscribers first. You guys can listen to that or watch it at your leisure if you're premium early. Otherwise, it's going to post much, much later. So if you want to be able to watch it early and you want to be able to support that type of work, breakingpoints.com, you can go ahead and sign up

for a premium membership. Yeah, comes at kind of a perfect time because I just was reading an article this morning about how the Biden team is like freaking out about the third party candidates and whatever. So it's about to be a really big story and it'll be interesting to hear from the voters themselves about why it is that they're rejecting both Trump and Biden and instead opting for RFK Jr. I think you guys are really going to resonate with some of these people. Okay, let's go to the Senate deal. There were some major developments in the United States Senate just yesterday. We brought everybody the news that the border deal would appear to have collapsed, but has now led to a new situation.

Let's go and put this up there on the screen just so we can give everyone an update. The Senate is currently in complete turmoil because they are both trying to advance two separate pieces of legislation. First and foremost is the, quote, quote, border deal, which is then attached to the foreign aid deal, which we brought attached to the foreign aid deal, which we brought everybody the details of in our last show. Just a reminder, that includes $60 billion for Ukraine, $14.1 billion for Israel, $10 billion in, quote, unquote, humanitarian aid, a pittance to Taiwan,

and then an additional $20 billion with some border reforms that would have passed. Now, it does not appear that that bill is going to have the 60 votes to be able to even move to debate and consideration on the floor. Senator Chuck Schumer, though, has now decided to put forward two separate votes, Crystal. One will be on this border deal, which they anticipate failing, although that actually is up in the air right now. It currently has 58 votes. The vote is held overnight. The second piece of legislation is actually stripping away all of the border provisions and would include just foreign aid for Israel, for Ukraine, and for Taiwan,

humanitarian aid as well. That originally appeared to be a non-starter, but there are some Republicans, people like Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, and others who have said that they would be supportive of such a measure. So the big question is whether that gets to 60. But I guess what belies this entire thing is the House of Representatives said this whole thing is dead no matter what. Right. In a certain point, this is all fake. But we get to see Washington's real priorities. This is the 60 billion for Ukraine, 14 billion for Israel. We'll remind everyone, by the way, that the Israel aid specifically says shall not be subject to congressional oversight. Imagine writing that in when you are the ones who are in Congress.

You would expect the Israelis or you, the president, to ask for something like that, not to just preemptively put it in there in the first place. Right. Congress would be like, we don't want any authority. No, thank you. We don't want to know what's going on. No oversight for us, please. Just take the bombs. Drop it on whoever you want. It is incredible. I mean, obviously, I'm cheering for every one of these things to go down in flames. So the fact that it looks like it's headed in that direction is good. The one that there's the biggest question marks about is the just foreign aid piece, the just Ukraine and just Israel piece, which is ironic.

I mean, again, listen, I'm glad this is all failing. So let me just be really clear about that. But it is sort of a hilarious situation because at the beginning of this, Republicans were like, we're never voting for Ukraine unless it comes with border funding as well. And then the border one goes down, and yet just the Ukraine and Israel one seems to have a better shot at passage. But again, as you said, Sagar, it doesn't look like these things are going to get through the House. Although I don't think Mike Johnson has been totally definitive about just the foreign aid package and what he would do. On the other hand, people like Marjorie Taylor

Greene and others have been very adamant that they will push for Mike Johnson, push down on the speakership if he does bring any Ukraine aid to the floor. So that obviously puts him in a very tricky position. And this is not a man who has navigated tricky positions very effectively thus far. Yeah, I agree. Listen, I wanted both to go down for the same reasons, so for different reasons. So I guess we're definitely united on that one, a little bit of horseshoe theory. Yeah. The fun thing- You can watch our hour-long immigration debate if you wanna really understand. If we had to reopen that, I think I would probably slip my wrist, but that's a different scenario for another day.

You were talking about Mike Johnson. Johnson has honestly humiliated himself. The last couple of days were an absolute disaster for any House speaker. And I'm talking, this isn't anything personal. It's just, this is inexperience and chaos within the caucus. So I know Ryan and Emily covered a little bit of this yesterday. They had the failure of the Mayorkas impeachment vote, which was like the House Republican thing. I cannot tell you. My phone blew up whenever that impeachment vote failed. People in the House and others were like, I cannot believe this. They're like, everyone told me for weeks, they're like, it's a done deal. Don't worry about it. You guys can

cover it, blah, blah. I said, all right, you know, when it happens, we'll do a segment or whatever. And now the only thing is that it's a failure. And the reason it's a failure is because he has no control on the caucus. And he just, the margin of votes that they have is so slim to none that you can have Al Green, who is the Houston Democrat, trotted in literally from the operating room table to vote, and it changes their whole margin. And then they lose one guy, and that's it. Boom. They lose two back-to-back votes on the floor of the House. He's also under two major pressures right now, as you were saying, with regard to Ukraine. The thing is about Ukraine is that there is a House

Ukraine caucus, which is chaired by a Republican, Mike Turner. Now, Mike Turner has previously said he wouldn't consider it without the border deal, but this is a dyed-in-the-wool neocon, also one of the people blocking UFO transparency. Interesting. So we'll put those two things there. So there's about 100 and so Republicans that are in that category. But then you've got Marjorie Taylor Greene. You've got Steve Scalise, who's in the House leadership as well. Others who are skeptical of Ukraine aid. And those are equally saying, if you bring this to the floor, we're going to go after you.

He's in a near impossible position. And it's one of those where we genuinely have no idea what he's going to do. He gave kind of a sad press conference yesterday. Let's take a listen to what he said. We'll see what the Senate does. We're allowing the process to play out and we'll handle it as it is sent over. I have made very clear that you have to address these issues on their own merits. And Israel desperately needs the assistance. Everyone knows that. Things have changed pretty dramatically since we passed that first Israel package in the house three months ago. Everyone knows the tensions have escalated and we need to support it there. On impeachment, last night was a

setback but democracy is messy. We live in a time of divided government. We have a razor-thin margin here and every vote counts. Sometimes when you're counting votes and people show up when they're not expected to be in the building it changes the equation. I don't think that this is a reflection on the leader. It's a reflection on the body itself and the place where we've come in this country. Look, the nation is divided. We lament that, right? The difference is the chasm between the two parties right now is wider than it's ever been. And there are lots of emotions. And we live in the age of social media and 24 hour news

cycle. There were previous Congresses where a gaggle like this would not even have been possible. So we're in a different time. We're in a different time. Yeah, I guess you could say that, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Speaker. Look, I don't know what he's gonna do, but he's in a bad spot. The big question right now, we thought that the votes were going to happen late last night. They've decided to delay it. I genuinely have no idea which one's gonna pass. It actually is conceivable that one of them could. But then, as Speaker Johnson just laid out there, he barely has any idea what his own votes are. He's very willing, which is very bizarre, to bring votes to the floor, which fail. I mean, this never happened under Boehner

and under Pelosi, you know, save for, I'm trying to think, maybe TARP. I mean, that was back in 2007, you know, the last time that we saw like dysfunction like this. And that was a way higher stakes environment. So, I mean, this just shows a complete breakdown of the entire Republican institutional establishment at the top. Really like the quote unquote, like what is the inmates are running the asylum. And Johnson is one of those people where, you know, a shiv is waiting for him basically no matter what he does in this situation. The Mayorkas thing was, the thing that was most amusing to me is afterwards, I think it was Marjorie Taylor. And I think Ryan and Emily covered this, but it was so funny. She

was like claiming, you know, crying foul over the Democrats just getting their members to vote. She was like, they were hiding members. No, you all scheduled a vote for when you probably knew this man was going to be in surgery and just assumed that you could count him out. And you should probably assume the other side is going to bring their caucus and, you know, on something that's a priority for them to try to vote it down and make sure you have the margins. I mean, it's just very, it's just very rookie behavior. On the other hand, you know, on something that's a priority for them to try to vote it down and make sure you have the margins. I mean, it's just very, it's just very rookie behavior. On the other hand, you know, the Republican Party isn't really about like governance at this point, especially not in the House and the Senate. It's all a cult of personality around Donald

Trump. He told him to vote down the border thing. They fell in line and did exactly what he wanted them to do. I think there's, I'm enjoying watching the chaos. It's amusing to me to watch this man be like basically humiliated in real time. I am, I have to admit, I'm enjoying that spectacle. But I don't think anyone should either fool themselves about like this really meaning anything for 2024, for the broader politics, etc. The last thing I'll say about whatever's going to happen today with the just Ukraine and Israel piece of this, the question marks are not only on the Republican side, although that's where

sort of the biggest question mark is, is also some question marks about how many Democrats will refuse to back another blank check to Israel. You've already had Bernie Sanders, of course, he's technically an independent, but Cox is with the Democrats. Obviously, he's a no. Elizabeth Warren put out something yesterday that seemed like it indicates she didn't say she's a no, but she said no more blank checks for Netanyahu. So that sort of indicated maybe she's a no. And there's a handful of others, just a few others, that could potentially bulk at another complete blank check for Israel. So that's another thing. I'm talking like maybe you get another one.

But when you have very slim margins. The difference between one versus three, not voting for it is a big deal. Yeah, exactly. So we could end up with nothing, which you know what? I'm pretty happy. That's what I'm cheering for, especially whenever it comes to the situation going on in Ukraine. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages

from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line,

I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for.

If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it

was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves.

Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't

working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content,

subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Speaking of public humiliation that I'm enjoying, Nikki Haley in Nevada managed to lose to none of the above. She's now given an interview explaining her cope of what exactly happened here and trying to justify her continued existence in this race. Let's take a listen. Does that situation in Nevada hurt a little bit?

No. I mean, Nevada, it's such a scam. They were supposed to have a primary. Trump rigged it so that the GOP chairman, who's been indicted, would go and create a caucus. We knew months ago that we weren't going to spend a day or a dollar in Nevada because it wasn't worth it. And so we didn't even count Nevada. That wasn't anything we were looking at. We knew that was rigged from the start. Our focus is on South Carolina, Michigan, Super Tuesday. So if you look what we

did in Iowa and you look what we did in New Hampshire, we're continuing to grow. That's what matters, I think, more than anything else. But look at what happened this week. Here you have Republicans lost a major vote on the border. Republicans lost a major vote on Israel. Donald Trump was found that he will not have immunity in all of these court cases coming up. The RNC chair is fired. All of this chaos is happening around us. And Donald Trump's fingerprints are on every bit of it. We can't continue as the Republican Party to go forward with this chaos. You don't defeat Democrat chaos with Republican chaos. And that's why we've got to see a change. So it was rigged. Is that what she's saying?

I'm pretty sure she's saying it was rigged. I love the part that my favorite part of that is when she's like, we weren't even counting Nevada. Like, yes, you were. Yeah. And not only that, but like, you're not the one that gets to decide which states count and which states don't. So the fact that you weren't counting Nevada doesn't really count for much. I mean, listen, she is right. There was like a weird thing that happened with Nevada that I don't totally understand that led to there being a primary and a caucus. And that's why Trump's name wasn't on the ballot or whatever. But if you are basically the only current candidate who is on the ballot and you're getting destroyed by none of the above, it's like it shows you where

the Republican Party is. And so it is hard for me to understand her justification for staying in the race at this point. Let's go and listen to Steve Kornacki on the night of this Nevada situation, explaining what exactly was going down, because this is kind of funny. Take a listen. Haley, without Trump's name even on the ballot, still loses to the none option by better than two to one. So that's that is a tough reality for her. Trump is on the ballot and she loses. And it's a closed primary. So it really reinforces what we've been seeing, that when you're just talking about Republican voters, she's really she's really getting clobbered with Republican voters. It's independents and Democrats that keep her in it. I love the way he's like, he's really getting clobbered with Republican voters. It's independents and Democrats that keep her in it. I love the way he's like, he's really in trouble. Yeah, we know, Steve, we agree.

So, you know, after, I don't remember if it was before New Hampshire, I think it was before New Hampshire, I was saying, you know, there's a chance that even though this ends up just being a long humiliation for her, that she stays in on the possibility with like the donor class backing her under the possibility that some black swan event occurs and takes Trump out of the race, even though if that did happen, I'm not even sure how that would go down, if that would leave her as the heir apparent or what would happen in that scenario. I guess it depends on the timing of when said black swan event were to occur. And I think at this point, that's the only real justification for her candidacy is like, you know, maybe something crazy happens because

if you are losing to none of the above and Republicans in every contest are clearly with the other guy, in spite of the fact that, you know, polls do show she would destroy Joe Biden. You know, I don't think there's any doubt if you're just looking at electability, you are taking a risk with Trump that you're not taking with Nikki Haley. But people are convinced Trump can win. I think there's a good chance Trump can win. And they haven't been given a reason to move off the guy that they still really love. Yeah, exactly. And look, I mean, when you've got, the other thing is, is that sure, but general elections don't happen in a vacuum. You have to win a primary,

at least in the current system. I don't necessarily love it, but it is what it is. Let's put this up there on the screen. I mean, just look at this. In terms of the overall vote total, 63.2%, two-thirds of the people who took time out of their day came to check none of them. 30.5% for Nikki Haley, okay? 43,893 American citizens took time out of their day to march their ass to the polling poll just to check none of the above, specifically to say, screw you to Nikki Haley. And they outnumbered them two to one to the people who actually thought that they were gonna go vote for her. I mean, how the hell are you supposed to compete with this? It's just literally impossible. It also, bringing back to what we were talking about in our A-block, Crystal, about the demise of the Republican establishment, for her to be defending the RNC and the collapse of that is some sort of sign of chaos. Look, let's put this up there on the screen. Somebody sent me this yesterday,

and I've gone through and verified this through Red State, which was the original publisher. Look at RNC versus DNC spending. Top line, the RNC spent 128 million versus the DNC spent 156 million. But when you break down what they were spending money on, it is shocking. The RNC spent $795,000. The RNC spent $263,000 on a limousine service. The DNC spent $7,000. It's like, what lady, you never heard of Uber? Uber Black's not good enough for you? What is going on over here? I mean, the fact is, is that you can see so clearly that they were squandering their budget to a historic degree. Even in that management consulting line, look at that. $1 million on management consulting. That's by far the most shameful line. I totally agree. Far worse than the Flowers or the Limousines or whatever. Management consulting is shameful.

Yeah, a million bucks on management consulting that DNC spent. 114 grand. Office supplies, they're spending 300 grand on office supplies that DNC is spending for. What are they buying? Are they buying Vision Pros? You know, like what's happening here? Are you buying the G2 pens and not the target? High level office supplies. Yeah, it's like, what are you people doing? The other thing you note there is the things that Democrats spent them on were like voter outreach, like TV texting. But I mean, yes to all of that. But I also think it's such cope to think that the problems of the Republican Party are like the line items of spending at the RNC.

I know you agree with me, but I just want to like put that out there because I'm just remembering Vivek at that debate that was like, oh, the reason we're losing is because of Ronna and the RNC. And I think that's preposterous. Like, obviously, the overall political dynamics are backlash against Trump, backlash against extremism, and backlash against the Dobbs decision overturning Roe versus Wade. I mean, those are the big pieces. So in that way, Nikki Haley is right that, like, you know, in terms of Republican electoral prospects, they would be much better off if they move past Donald Trump. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I mean, the reason that they underperformed in the midterm elections, the reason that they're losing like every special election that comes up, the reason that they've definitely lost every single ballot initiative

that has anything to do with abortion rights. Those things are not about the RNC. They do stem sort of directly from Donald Trump or the Supreme Court justices that he put on the bench. So that is the big picture. But yeah, I mean, this is an embarrassing profligate spending on all of the wrong things at the RNC as well, on top of everything. Right. I mean, more what I'm saying is that these people are morally bankrupt and just not deserving of any sort of reverence within the Republican Party, which is part of why it's one of those where you're right. Look, is it the RNC's fault they're losing? No. But at the same time, you can't be blowing people's money on floral arrangements

and on limousine services. It's shocking. And I'll put a modest defense in here. RNC and DNC, yeah, they don't matter at a macro level. But at a micro level, they can matter. They can, you know, what, 5,000, 10,000 votes, people who are canvassing having the right software and all that stuff. Again, it is not determinative. It is not the major thing that matters. But people do give money, and they allegedly are supposed to exist for a certain reason. And you shouldn't be spending that on floor arrangements and on- The thing they primarily exist for at this point is just to control the process and make sure that the powers that be get their way, that Joe Biden doesn't have to debate and he gets the lineup of

states that he wants and that the process is completely controlled. And on the RNC side, the same thing. I mean, they actually had much more of a democratic process than the Democrats did. But there's also no doubt that there was a lot of fealty from Ronna McDaniel to Donald Trump. He gave her his blessing. She was allowed to stay in there so long as he felt that she served his purpose. And apparently that reign is coming to an end. Put this up on the screen. Ronna looks like she is leaving after some criticism from Trump. She plans to step down. Donald Trump likely to back a supporter of his false claims of election fraud, Michael Whatley, the head of the North Carolina GOP. There's a quote in here from someone, some insider, some insider who said Mr. Trump likes Mr. Whatley

for one overwhelming reason, according to people who have discussed him with the former president, quote, he is a stop the steal guy, as one of the people described him. You also have some, it is, you know, not a guarantee that this dude will get it, even though this is Donald Trump's pick, but I think it's very, very likely, but there could be internal dissent and it's not like Trump can just tap him on the head and appoint him. There does have to be some internal process, so we'll see how that plays out. I also thought this was amusing. Charlie Kirk, the founder of Turning Point USA, has lobbied publicly to remove Ms. Daniel, suggesting last week in an interview that some Trump family members, including Laura Trump,

former president's daughter-in-law, could be potential picks for party leadership posts as well. So they're looking at staffing up the party with direct Trump relatives. To be honest, it would be logically consistent. If the whole party is going to be about Trump, you might as well just put a Trump person. True. Right? I mean, if it's going to be a cult personality, like just get the loyalists in there and make it clear as day.

Right. Let's just put the last name Trump and put, you know, make Don Jr. the VP pick. It is what it is. It's what I don't support it, but I'm just like that. Clearly that's what Republican voters want. That's reality. I was once in the Trump hotel when Don Jr. walked in and it was literally like, it was like being in a hundred years ago when a Habsburg Prince must've walked into like a V. Oh my God. It was crazy. I mean, I, I, I watched people, grown men in car heart jackets, lose their minds over the son of the president. And I was like, do you think Chelsea Clinton is getting greeted like this anywhere?

You know, she'd probably get walking to the Ritz-Carlton or whatever in New York and people are like, you know, they'll give an acknowledgement, but they're not. Well, she had her time. There's no cult of personality. Back in the heyday of like the Clinton Global Initiative and stuff. That's a good point. When she would walk into that room, I'm sure she was treated with, you know, fawning admiration. Back when she was being hired by NBC News.

What about Sasha Obama, right? I once walked past Sasha Obama on the street in Georgetown. You would never have known it if it wasn't for the fact that her Secret Service guy was right behind her. It's just different, you know, in terms of the way that the parties are. Anyway. Sick country we live in. It's a crazy country. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages

from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter.

She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1.

Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown.

We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does.

It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. This was amusing as well. I'm interested in Sagar's take on this.

So Trump put this post up on True Social, basically calling for people to forgive and forget when it comes to Bud Light. Put this up on the screen so I can read this in its entirety. Quote, the Bud Light ad was a mistake of epic proportions. And for that, a very big price was paid. But Anheuser-Busch is not a woke company, but I can give you plenty that are. And building a list might just release it for the world to see. Why not? The radical left does it viciously to well-run conservative companies and people. Very nasty, but it's the way they play the game. On the other hand, Anheuser-Busch spends $700 million a year with our great farmers, employs 65,000 Americans,

of which 1,500 are veterans, and is a founding corporate partner of Folds of Honor, which provides scholarships for families of fallen servicemen and women. They've raised over $30 million, given 44,000 scholarships. Anheuser-Busch is a great American brand that perhaps deserves a second chance. What do you think? Perhaps instead, we should be going after those companies that are looking to destroy America. What are your thoughts on this, Dagger? Well, first of all, who wrote that? Like an Anheuser-Busch spokesperson? When they're like, 65,000 Americans, 1,500 of which are veterans. Who wrote this?

It's clearly somebody from the company. He definitely didn't have these facts on the top of his head. Yeah, it's like, listen, I met Trump, he's not that cogent, all right? He definitely doesn't know things like that at the top of his head. So what's going on here? Upon some digging by some conservative activists, it turns out, let's put this up there on the screen, that after the year-long now boycott, it turns out that Trump not only is their top lobbyist a major fundraiser for him, Anheuser-Busch, but that Trump himself

actually owns up to $5 million in Anheuser-Busch stock. And why I think it's hilarious is that Trump is just one of those people who has the ability to take a conservative call. If this was Marco Rubio, if this was Trump, if this was, I mean, even Ted Cruz, Marjorie, any of these people, Matt Gaetz, people who- Literally anyone else. Anyone else, they would be savaged by the conservative faithful, but they give him a pass even when he does like blatantly liberal things or he just like stabs conservative orthodoxy in the heart. In many cases, it's very useful. Like when we're talking about tax cuts or whatever,

or tariffs, that's a better example because he was actually quite conservative on tax cuts or whatever, or tariffs. That's a better example because he was actually quite conservative on tax cuts traditionally. But whenever it's stuff like this, people who are pro-life and, in this case, anti-Bud Light are just left shocked. They're like, this is all that I worked for, and they just destroyed it. The perfect example is Matt Walsh, who over at The Daily Wire, let's put this please up there on the screen. He put this out there. He says, quote, we managed to organize the first effective conservative boycott ever. Nobody has given any good reason why we should surrender now without an apology or concession. Anheuser-Busch isn't even an American company. We would be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for the sake of rescuing a foreign corporation from the consequences

of its own action. Absolute madness. But you know what I really noted? The word Trump is not in that at all. It was only in a follow-up that he says Trump gave no strategic reason why abandoning this one single thing would be a good idea. Apparently we should back off because it would be a nice thing to do. And it's very important to be nice to people who push transgenderism. But again, what's shocking to me is that if you look at the comments, if you look at the quote tweets and some of the replies and stuff, people are like, well, it's okay, guys, because Dana White over at UFC signed a deal with them. So they're cool.

It's like everyone does jujitsu to justify why Trump can say something that any, again, any conservative influencer, any Republican politician, anyone, Dan Crenshaw, whatever, they would be savage beyond belief. They would be mounting boycotts. They would be, you know, pushing a primary candidate and all this other stuff. And here, where he has a blatant conflict of interest and is going against something which was, I mean, I can tell you from social media wise and all this stuff, this is the most successful conservative things I've ever seen. And Trump just comes out and he's like, no, we're not doing it

anymore. It's amazing. It's like even a guy like Walsh, I would say relatively consistent in his views and all that. He knows, he's like, yeah, I'm going to get shit on for this. It's nuts the way that Trump just gets a pass by his voters. I mean, if Nikki had done this, they would rip her to shreds. And especially if she owns stock in that corporate. Can you believe it? Forget about it. All these Instagram accounts and all these people constantly talking about Nancy Pelosi, which we agree with. We're one of the people who started that movement. You can go back and roll the tape. But it's like with Trump, it gets everything. I was just at the Trump, well, the Waldorf Astoria now, and I was walking around and just remembering the

bonanza, what it was at the time. I remember seeing foreign diplomats and all these people blowing all this money at the hotel. And at that time, I was like, this is so disgusting and so crazy. And of course, only Democrats cared, right, at that time. And then Biden or Hunter or whatever, oh, bums the word. Nobody says- Yeah, when it's Kushner, then suddenly no one cares. Right, oh, no, yeah. When it's Kushner, then we don't care. Or when it's literally Trump getting money directly through his hotels and whatever. It's wild. Don't care. I mean, this is typical of classically swampy behavior. It's terrible.

Obviously, like I so just so people recall, in case you follow all of the ins and outs of this all was sparked by one like trans influencer. Dylan Mulvaney. That Bud Light decided to do, and it caused this whole thing. But in terms of, you know, it being effect, like it genuinely was a huge thing on social media. It genuinely impacted their stock price. They pulled the ads. There was a whole thing at the corporate level. And it also sparked these follow-on trends of then going after Target and going after this and that other company. So if that's what you're into, he's right that it was successful. And it is just another instance of how much pull Trump has with this

entire party. And the other thing is, though, you have to think about, now he's very clearly heading into a general election. That's right. And he doesn't need freaks and weirdos like Matt Walsh to love every move that he's making. They're gonna vote for him. Of course. They're gonna vote for him. They're gonna rally the faithful. They're gonna rally all their audiences for him. So he doesn't need to appease them. He doesn't care. He can do what he wants and appear much more of a, he has a good sensibility of like normie impulse. And some, a lot of this right-wing influencer stuff is just completely off the rails. Like the Taylor Swift, PSYUP stuff, which is noteworthy. This comes at that moment too,

because Bud Light is tied into the whole, that whole thing. Cause I guess Travis Kelsey did some Bud Light ad. Oh, you didn't know that? Yeah, or was drinking Bud Light. There was some Bud Light situation here as well that was part of the whole- Oh, he wore a Bud Light necklace. There you go. It was part of the whole conspiracy around Taylor and Travis Kelsey, which makes them look like such crazy freaks and weirdos that they're obsessing over these weird deep state psyop conspiracies. And he also has fingers on the pulse of like, this is not going to resonate with normal people whatsoever. So I think there's an element of that as well of like, he doesn't have to care about those people anymore. I would be curious to see

what happens with the Taylor thing. Because I could see Trump be, because the only reason is that the people around Trump have been tweeting about this Taylor thing. And I actually think it's one of those things that he would pick up at dinner at Mar-a-Lago and he might fire off a truth. So I'm not convinced yet that he may not trash Taylor Swift eventually, even if she does not endorse Biden. I don't think so. You might be right. I think he's too smart to do it personally. You know what? The one thing is that Trump does understand is he understands media and he understands when somebody is more powerful than him. By all accounts, the person who he feared most when he was president was Oprah. He was always like, if she runs against me, I'm toast. It's one of those where like, but you know,

he probably was right. So I guess we should give him the media credit. Anyways, this whole thing is just, you know, these conservative influencers and all these other people, it's like they have, they have no backbone. Like, you know, Walsh, sure, he stood up against it. But how many of these people who are cheering? I saw people make YouTube channels that went to one and a half million just shitting on Bud Light. And it was fun. Listen, I enjoyed it. It was a fun thing to watch and to all that take place. But they have no word, you know, not one whenever it comes to Trump or something like this. And as I said, if it was Nikki, if it was anybody else, they would savage them. And the icing on the cake, not only that is the stock and the fact that that is such an obviously ghostwritten tweet by some lobbyists.

It's craziness. Yeah, that's why the writing was always on the wall with regards to the Republican primary because this has always been the dynamic. It is true. It's always been the case. And that's why I was never convinced that anything Ron DeSantis could say or anything Nikki Haley could say were going to move people off of him because they just, you know, they still really like this guy and they're going to go down with the ship. If that's what it takes, they're going to stick by him no matter what he says, what he does, how contradictory, whatever. It doesn't matter. Absolutely. So guys, as we've been reporting, there have been active negotiations for another ceasefire agreement, a temporary or even a

potentially permanent ceasefire. Hamas returned their counterproposal and Bibi Netanyahu has rejected it completely out of hand. Let's take a listen to some of his comments. I came here this evening to say we are on our way to that decisive victory. It is in our hands. It's not a matter of perhaps weeks, but it is in a matter of months. The IDF are working systematically and they will achieve all the objectives of the war. They're going to release all the hostages, eliminate Hamas, and Gaza will no longer be a threat to Israel. The achievements of the IDF are unprecedented. Within four months, the IDF have wounded and killed over 20,000 terrorists.

In other words, we're talking about all those brigades that we have actually achieved to eliminate. There is, first of all, no evidence that they have killed 20,000 fighters and even independent analysts. Even a former general from the US said that their success has been incredibly limited. They have not taken out the top Hamas leadership. They've not destroyed the tunnel system. So he's really trying to convince the Israeli people that victory is just around the corner, just months away, just at hand, and they're gonna get the hostages released, etc., etc. And so it's fine to reject this deal. Of course, the reality is that they've killed more of their own hostages by quite a number

at this point than they've been able to rescue through military operations. The only time hostage releases were secured was during the last temporary ceasefire. So I wanna give you a sense of what the Hamas counterproposal was during the last temporary ceasefire. So I want to give you a sense of what the Hamas counterproposal was because, you know, the media doesn't cover it in depth. And also because the U.S. is saying it contains non-starters, quote unquote non-starters. Yeah, one of those non-starters is that they actually want the war to end and the U.S. and Israel do not want the war to end. Let's go ahead and put this up on the screen. The basic idea here, I'm not going to read all of this, guys, but I'll give you the top line. The basic idea here is for a three-stage

deal with different groups being released in each of those stages. In the first stage, they say they would see a temporary cessation of military operations and the two parties will release Israeli detainees from among women and children under the age of 19, not conscripted, the elderly, the sick, in exchange for a number of Palestinian prisoners, ensuring the release of all individuals whose names are pre-agreed upon during this stage. Also critical here, they say they want to start reconstruction of hospitals across the Strip. And that last bullet, this part is also really important, beginning of indirect negotiations regarding the requirements necessary for restoring complete calm. So effectively in the first stage, you'd

start some reconstruction. You'd have a total pullout of the Israeli military. You'd have this first batch of hostages released in Palestinian prisoners exchange, and you would start negotiations to a complete end of the conflict. That's the part that really is the non-starter quote unquote for the Israelis in the US. Let's put the next piece up on the screen here regarding second stage. It would be another 45 days. This stage aims to release all detained men, civilians, and conscripts in exchange for specific numbers of Palestinian prisoners, continuation of humanitarian measures. So the basic idea here is you sort of continue the projects of reconstruction and the continued negotiations while men and IDF soldiers are released in exchange for Palestinian prisoners.

Put the next piece up on the screen. In the third stage, you'd have a complete cessation of military operations from both sides, redeployment of Israeli forces away from populated areas. Both parties will release all Israeli detainees from among women and children under the age of 19, not conscripted, elderly, sick, in exchange for all prisoners in the occupation's prisons, including women, children, elderly. Let's put the last piece up on the screen. This is also the stage where any hostage dead bodies, because there's somewhere around 50 hostages who have been killed at this point, unsurprising given that they're in the Gaza Strip under heavy bombardment

at this point. There's some other pieces here, like stopping the incursions and aggression by Israeli settlers on Al-Aqsa Mosque, returning the situation on Al-Aqsa Mosque to what it was before 2002. That may not sound like a big deal. That is considered kind of a big ask. Return of displaced persons, ensuring opening of all crossings, lifting any Israeli restrictions on the movement of travelers, patients, and the wounded through that Rafah crossing, resupplying the Gaza Strip, and the occupation's commitment to supplying Gaza with its electricity and water needs. So that was a lot, guys. But basically, the idea from the Hamas proposal was these three stages, different types of hostages released in each stage, with the idea that the negotiations would be ongoing to bring about a complete end of the conflict in Sagar.

That's the piece that's really considered a non-starter. We can also get Tony Blinken responded to these negotiations. He's claiming the negotiations aren't dead. I don't know whether that's true or not. You can't really believe a word that comes out from any of these people's mouths, by the way. But let's take a listen to his response to the Hamas proposal. We've looked very carefully at what came back from Hamas, and there are clearly non-starters in what it's put forward. But we also see space in what came back to pursue negotiations to see if we can get to an agreement. With regard to Rafah, look, as I said before, Israel has the responsibility, has the obligation to do everything possible to ensure that civilians are protected and that they get the assistance they need in the course of this conflict. Any military campaign, military operation that Israel undertakes

needs to put civilians first and foremost in mind. And I suggested, again, some ways to do that. And that's especially true in the case of Rafah, where there are somewhere between 1.2 and 1.4 million people, many of them displaced from other parts of Gaza. So we want to make sure, again, that in anything that's done in any military operations, the situation for civilians is first and foremost in mind and that necessary steps are taken to make sure that they're protected and they have the assistance they need. So a few things there. I mean, first of all, Ghani describes the Hamas proposal as a non-starter and largely because you can read into that they want the war to end. And I'm going to show you some polling in just a minute that shows you exactly why Bibi Netanyahu does not want the war to end, which is because Israeli citizens overwhelmingly want his ass out of there once the war does end.

So that's always been his posture. The other piece that's really important there, though, is where he's talking about Rafah. And the reason that's so significant is because as Palestinians were forced out of Gaza City, they were forced down to Khan Yunus, then they were forced down to Rafah. Now you have over a million people clustered at the border, and Israel signaling that they are planning to widen their operation to that Rafah border. Well, you can only imagine. I mean, it's already a total humanitarian catastrophe there. You can only imagine if you start having scenes of battle and intense bombing and all of that on top of this incredibly densely packed civilian population clustered now in Rafah, what kind of a catastrophe that would be. I mean, even given the levels of destruction and chaos and atrocities that we've seen, it could be the case that we haven't seen anything yet compared to what could unfold in Rafah. That's actually where, obviously, that's also why Blinken is so concerned, at least privately. Let's put this up there on the screen. He's got it up here. Tony, sorry, Tony Blinken was

actually told directly, this is from Axios yesterday, by the defense minister that if they do have a rejection of the ceasefire, that the operation into Gaza, quote, will expand in the city that have now mostly remained unharmed. Blinken told Blinken during this meeting that this will push them into continuation of the ground operation and that the response they said was drafted in a way that they believe that Israel will reject it. The Hamas position will just lead to the continuation of the war and our forces to enter more places in Gaza soon. So it's pretty clear. Israelis never have any responsibility for their actions.

The clear point that they're making there is that they're like, this is going to continue. Part of the reason why that this could actually be the most explosive is like, look, we've already had, what, tens of thousands of civilians who have been killed, two to one, maybe three to one in ratio. Nobody even really knows what it is.

But because the civilian population is so densely populated here, it is actually conceivable that if airstrikes and ground operations were to be continued, especially if they were going to operate the same way they did in Conde Unis and Gaza, no reason to think they're not, that the civilian population or the civilian death toll would actually be even higher. There's also way more tunnel mileage under the Rafah crossing than there is anywhere else in the rest of the Gaza Strip, which means that it will be deadlier for the IDF and then more likely that they would have to use or will use bombs that will try to collapse them. I'm interested. There's a piece of news that just flashed and I wanted to know what your take was

here. They say Israel will allow the exile, actually, of Yaa Sinwar from Gaza in exchange for the release of all the remaining 136 hostages, NBC is reporting now, citing six Israeli officials and senior advisors. Do you think that could be a way out of this? Go ahead. I mean, my understanding of the proposal, and you can crack me if I'm wrong, because I just saw the headline as well, but is that basically they're like, oh, we'll let you live if you, you know, basically like give up. And I can't imagine that he would agree to those sort of terms.

So, no, I don't see it as likely to, you know, lead to any sort of path forward. Yeah, I mean, that was just the only, I guess it's one of those counters where they want the release of all in exchange for one, and that would be exile. And then, you know, it's not like it would actually give anything up. And he likely would be killed anyway, you know, after he left. So yeah, I mean, it doesn't seem like there's going to be any sort of negotiation. The real thing is, is that the reason why I think that this is just all kind of just arguing over rhetoric is, do the Israelis really believe that you're going to have a two-month ceasefire and a resumption of military operations? I can't think of a single time in the past of modern conflict where you have 60 whole days of no fire and you have then a resumption of military hostilities. It just doesn't, especially even more ramped up. Hamas, I mean, listen, they took those hostages

for a reason. They know it's an emotional issue, number one. They're not going to give up all their leverage, you know, if it doesn't mean a complete end to this. I am not justifying this. I think they should all be released. I'm just saying, like, you know, from a pure cold calculation perspective, they know this is the one chance that they have, basically from total annihilation. If they haven't even, you know, whatever they faced, it could be a lot worse if they didn't have hostages who are within them because of the Israeli populace, which, as you said, polling indicates how important that issue is to the Israelis themselves. Yeah, there was a poll that just came out of Israeli society that asked them, hey, what do you think the goals of the military

operation should be? What should take precedence. And a majority actually put, 51% put bringing home the hostages over destroying Hamas. Only 36% said destroying Hamas. And I mean, of course, neither goal has been accomplished. Neither has been the real goal of the Netanyahu government, as we've discussed at length. They've been incredibly ineffective at actually eradicating Hamas. They've only been effective at complete destruction of civilian infrastructure and massive civilian death tolls. That's what they have been very effective at doing. Even the tunnel system has not been remotely destroyed. And of course, as I said before, a lot of hostage families from the beginning, they

have been saying, hey, we would take a deal that's all hostages released for all Palestinian prisoners released, what they call all for all. So while the US government and the Netanyahu government are saying the Hamas deal is a nonstarter, please understand that many Israelis even who don't have to be peaceniks, but even families of the hostages, they would be very open to a deal like this if it meant that their family members, that all 136 of the hostages, those who remain alive, because a number of them, somewhere around, estimates are around 50, have been killed during this conflict. But some sort of deal of what Hamas has offered here that

would bring all of the hostages home, they would be very open to. But again, the domestic political calculus for Bibi is he's gotta keep the war going because if he doesn't, then his political reign is going to be at an end. So please understand when they say it's a non-starter, that's what they consider to be a non-starter, the idea that the war would actually end. We have another thing I could put up on the screen. I mean, to me, this is just more theater, but put this up on the screen. Netanyahu reacting to President Biden's little piddly sanctions on four settlers. He called them inappropriate and highly problematic. Is he really upset about this? I don't know. Probably, I guess. But also, I think it benefits him for his right wing base to act like he's outraged.

It benefits actually President Biden for the Israelis to act outraged because it makes this piddly, you know, sort of pathetic virtue signaling action that they took. It makes it appear more meaningful than it actually was. So anyway, that's his reaction as they were, quote unquote, inappropriate and highly problematic. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her.

And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister.

There's so many questions that we've never got any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution.

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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way.

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-stud on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real.

It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. At the same time, there are some really significant developments unfolding vis-a-vis Saudi Arabia's role in all of this. So the Biden administration has been trying to float what Thomas Friedman labeled the quote unquote Biden doctrine for the future of the Middle East. And it essentially involved Saudi Arabia normalizing relations with Israel at the

end of all of this, even though the Saudis have really indicated, hey, we're not interested in that unless there is a Palestinian state, something that of course Netanyahu rejects completely out of hand also as a non-starter. So Kirby, John Kirby, put this up on the screen, had just said recently that, oh, we received positive feedback from Saudi Arabia and Israel that they're willing to continue to have normalization discussions. These were ongoing before October 7th, you'll recall. It was according to, again, White House National Security Spokesman John Kirby. This apparently really pissed off the Saudis because they felt the need to put out a statement directly in response and even sort of like calling out John Kirby directly, that this does not reflect their position at all. Put this

up on the screen. So this is a statement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the discussions between Saudi Arabia, USA, and the Arab-Israeli peace process. Let me read. This isn't all that long. They say, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that regarding the discussions between Saudi and USA and the Arab-Israeli peace process, and in light of what has been attributed to the U.S. national security spokesperson, that would be Kirby, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs affirms that the position of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has always been steadfast on the Palestinian issue and the necessity that the brotherly Palestinian people obtain their legitimate rights. The kingdom has communicated its firm position to the U.S. administration that

there will be no diplomatic relations with Israel unless an independent Palestinian state is recognized on the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital and that the Israeli aggression on the Gaza Strip stops and all Israeli occupation forces withdraw from the Gaza Strip. The kingdom reiterates its call to the permanent members of the UN Security Council that have not yet recognized the Palestinian state to expedite the recognition of the Palestinian state on the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital so that the Palestinian people can obtain their legitimate rights and so that a comprehensive and just peace is achieved for all. I mean, it's somewhat diplomatic language, but Sagar, in the diplomatic speak, this is as much of an over-the-top smackdown as you could possibly get

in this situation. The reason it matters is because Saudi normalization is something that the Israelis have wanted for years. Look, the Saudi royal family themselves, they don't care about the Palestinians, and they don't care about the Palestinians and they don't even care about Israelis. But Saudi Arabia is a big country. They have a big population. Their population, they care a lot about the Palestinians. This is the thing that many people don't understand

is that the Gulf monarchies and even the monarchy of Jordan, for example, these people are educated in the West. I mean, they're real politique. As long as they can hang out in the South of France, they don't care. But their people, I mean, in many cases, they're poor and they're very identified with the Palestinian cause. They are not as integrated with Western society and all that. And for them, this is a deeply emotional issue such that if the Saudis are seen to leave the Palestinians behind in any way

by normalizing relations, it's just, it's a complete non-starter. It would actually put the monarchy at risk, something that they will never withstand. Part of the reason that they've been and taken the posture that they've had. It's something that the US and in my opinion, diplomats often forget in our dealings with them is like, the Saudi king does not speak for the Saudi people. Sometimes he does, but you know, in cases like this, definitely not. Yeah. Most of these people ain't educated in Sandhurst or Georgetown or whatever. Like, they are Arab and their very identification with the Arab, with Arab nationalism, with Arab cause, and they hate Israel with a fiery passion. Yeah. I mean, there was a, there was a, I think it was a leak or maybe an administration official officially said this on the record,

but they put out to the press like, oh, just before October 7th, we totally were going to work on with Saudi, this track to Palestinian statehood. And then October 7th just ruined everything. It's total nonsense. The Saudis thought they could get away with normalization when the Palestinians were being like erased as an an issue and when they're completely on the back burner. No longer possible because of all of the energy in Saudi and throughout the region on behalf of the Palestinian people. And as I said to you before, Sagar, a lot of these countries have been sort of humiliated by South Africa, who stepped up and they were the ones that filed the charges with the ICJ and accused Israel of genocide. Any one of these countries could have done the same, but they didn't. And so even though

it's a monarchy, it's not anything close to a democracy, they still have to respond to pressure from their people. And if they were seen, so for John Kirby to be out there like, oh yeah, they're still interested in normalizing with Israel without having a clear cut Palestinian state along 1967 borders, they felt the need to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That is not our position at all. We told you that's not our position. We are very clear about where we stand on all of this. And so it really is, once again, an extraordinary humiliation and rebuke of the US and our posture in the region. The last thing that I want to share with you with regard to Israel, because there was a lot of interesting polling that recently came out about the Israeli people

themselves, put this up on the screen. So it continues to be the case that a majority of Israelis say they do not want a Palestinian state or peace with Arab countries. Half of Israelis would oppose a deal to end the war on Gaza if it includes Palestinian statehood and peace agreements with other Arab countries. Only 39% think Israel is ensuring the security of its citizens as well. So there's real indictment of the current Israeli government that's kind of across the board. In addition, this again underscores the weakness of Netanyahu's position. About 71% of Israelis would like to see early elections. Their current elections are scheduled for November 2026. 71% are saying, no, no, no, no, no, we can't wait

till then. We got to either have them, and there's a split in opinion between we should just have them right now, which is kind of what the quote unquote left in Israel wants and the Arab population in Israel wants, or hey, we can wait till the war's over, but then we need to have elections. So that polling is in the back of Netanyahu and the rest of the war cabinet, by the way, of their mind when they're making all of these decisions about how to proceed. And then I referenced this before, but I want to underscore it again. They also asked about the main goals of the war in Gaza, whether bringing home the Israeli hostages or toppling Hamas should be the priority. About half said bringing home the hostages, 51% should be the main focus, while 36% said it should be destroying the

terror group in the Strip. But you have a majority of Israeli society that says we do not want a Palestinian state. And what does that tell you? It tells you that if that's gonna be a real thing and not just a thing that US politicians say to pretend like they give a shit about Palestinians, then the U.S. is going to have to really use some muscle and basically force a solution on the Israelis. That's really the only way that this would ever happen. And even then it would be, you know, not a certain situation. Absolutely. I mean, the thing is, is that emotions run hot. I would say that if you are in the middle of a hostage situation at a full-blown war and you've still got the polling where it is right now, a couple of years from now,

guns are not there. Some hostages get returned. I could see a difference in the opinion. I mean, it's one of those where I actually was shocked by the numbers considering I thought it would be two thirds or maybe even three fourths who were opposed to a Palestinian state. I think people there are going to get to a point too where, look, right now you're in, but war fever, you know, you're in the middle of it. Take a year. Israelis, you guys love to travel. I'll meet you all over the world. Try traveling a little bit. See what the global reaction is like. You know, you get denied from a few countries, get meet people in a hospital or whatever. And they're like, oh, you know, you're, you know, something like that. That's going to start to sting. And then you're going to have

to get to a situation where you have to reconcile yourself to the international community on top of US pressure. And I could see things going to 50% or so, not that long from now. You're, you're right. Like we're going to have to press, there's no question. You're going to have to force their hand. But I also could see democratic sentiment in Israel, especially when Bibi is finally gone, Smotrit, all these other people are no longer given, you know, the bully pulpit. We're not in the middle of a war. You don't have a baby being held hostage and all that. I could see things changing. Yeah, maybe. I mean, there's no guarantee. It is worth remembering that there have been many previous situations in world history

where you had two groups of people, you know, killing each other totally at odds. Seems like an intractable conflict. And it's actually not that long after you're able to negotiate some sort of settlement where there really is like genuine peace. Everybody points to Ireland, right? It's a perfect example of that. When we were in graduate school for my security thing, one of the papers, very rarely school assignments stick with you, but it was this like statistical study where, and this sounds weird, but the more attempts at ceasefire that there are, the more likely peace is there in the end. And it sounds trite, but what it really means is that the mere act of talking, even though most talks will fall apart, is a precursor to an

eventual peace. It actually makes sense, which if you don't talk at all, then you can't ever arrive at peace. And so even though most talks are intractable, they fail, they fall apart. I think the vast majority of ceasefires actually have resumption of conflict, not two months like what I was talking about. For example, in Syria, we'd negotiate a ceasefire, and we have one two days later. We had nine, 10, 11, 12, whatever. The whole point, though, is that the mere act of talking eventually does lead to breakthroughs, and populations can shift very, very quickly whenever they are led by people. So that's one that sticks with me here, and part of the reasons why I think talking, even the mere act, as maddening and all this is to cover, is that it can be very beneficial in the future. Part of the reason I'm rooting for some sort of ceasefire agreement to actually come to pass.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, on the flip side, there's no guarantee that whatever comes after Netanyahu will be more open to peace than Netanyahu is. I mean, he's staked basically his entire career on blocking a Palestinian state. There's a reason why he's been able to ascend to power multiple times while staking out that position. It's because it's a position that is widely held in Israeli society. I do think it's noteworthy that in spite of October 7th, I mean, these polls numbers about statehood basically haven't really moved during this current conflict, which is, you know, I probably would have predicted right after October 7th that, you know,

those in favor of a Palestinian state, I mean, it would just be like sort of completely wiped out. So the fact that you even have like roughly a third that is still like, okay, but we should, you know, look towards statehood or I would accept at least statehood, you know, and that that hasn't further deteriorated, I guess I can take that as like a positive sign that there is some potential for peace. Because the reality is like there is no military solution to this conflict. Of course not. Period. End of story. The only way that Israelis and Palestinians are gonna be able to live in peace and with some relative security, etc., is through a negotiated settlement that recognizes

the basic rights of the Palestinian people and provides them with some sort of statehood. That's legitimate. That's not like fake, like Biden's sort of also like floating these ideas that would effectively result in what they call like state minus, which wouldn't be real sovereignty. I mean, it has to be something approaching genuine statehood for the situation to be resolved. But one thing we can look back to is disengagement from Gaza. Ariel Sharon, I mean, he's, you know, by many, he's a war criminal, right? But he was the guy behind the disengagement from Gaza. I have it here in front of me. 65% of voters in a referendum on May 2nd, 2004 opposed the disengagement plan. Government went through it anyway. You know why?

Because the Bush administration was like, you're doing this. It's going to happen. So it's one of those where we have the ability and they can buck their own thing. And now in retrospect, you know, look, there's a lot of things to say about disengagement from Gaza and all that. But it's a good example of how they rooted their people, settlers, out of the Gaza Strip. And they're like, you're getting kicked out, period, end of story. That could be a precursor for what the West Bank would look like in the future. And their ability, if the government wants to do it, they can get it done. It's just gonna require some political capital and then diplomatic pressure on our end. Yeah. Your point being not that that was good for Palestinians because it wasn't. I mean, the conditions in Gaza Strip dramatically deteriorated. There

were an incomplete blockade and siege. Machine guns pointed in at them, et cetera. But that they did something that was unpopular with the population. Yes, exactly. The Israelis can do it if they want to. Yeah, the end result, I mean, there's a lot of people to blame for that one, mostly Bush. But we'll get to that for a second. All right, guys, as you probably know, by all of the videos circulating of people looking absolutely ridiculous on the street, the Apple Vision Pro has been released, and prepare yourself. Guys, go ahead and show the two-shot, because Sagar just got his mail. It's out. We're here. Here it is. We're ready.

How's my pass-through? Can you guys see my eyes? No, we can't see your eyes at all. We just see the reflections of like our cameras. You know what's great? I can see all of you. I can see you all be digitally rendered right here in front of me. I got my laptop screen over there. I've got some fun stuff going on over here, but I've still got the studio. What does it feel like on your head? Like it seemed like it's pretty heavy. It's a bit heavy. Yeah. I'll be honest. I think that the most comfortable, so I wore it for a couple of hours yesterday. It's just literally delivered. I was actually on the phone with you whenever it arrived. I wore it for a couple of hours yesterday. After three hours, I was like, okay, you get like kind of a red area that arrives on the forehead.

So the best way is if you're on the couch and you're just kind of leaning back a little bit like this. So it's like resting on your face. It's amazing. It's just totally amazing. Okay. That makes it even a little more dystopian. We're all just going to be laying on our couches in another world in these things. My favorite thing, and I saw, Crystal, I'm curious what you saw, is a guy who had an infant who was napping on his chest. And he's like, usually I can't watch TV because I can't use my hands.

So he had his Vision Pro on and he could watch TV. But we'll get to that. God forbid we'd just be like present with our loved ones or enjoying the moment of your precious baby sleeping on your chest. I can't say I've seen any favorite things. I've seen lots of things I found very disturbing and dystopian.

And also it's like, for me, this thing fits in this weird space of both being kind of dystopian, but also kind of like ridiculous and lame, but you can try to change my mind. Oh, I'm gonna change your mind for sure. Soccer did record a video, but also kind of like ridiculous and lame, but you can try to change my mind. Oh, I'm going to change your mind for sure. Socrates did record a video, but first I want to show you some of the videos that have been circulating of other people out in the world using this monstrosity. So here we have the

dude who got the first one. Yes. Being cheered. Cheered as a hero, which he is. He is a hero. I wonder if he really used that or if he's going to resell it. Because the resale has got to be a lot. Here's someone who is skateboarding down the streets of what appears to be New York City. That's Casey Neistat. He's a YouTuber. Oh, for real? He's reviewing it?

He's very popular. That looks terrifying. Here's a guy that's even more terrifying. This is a true hero. Who's doing Tesla. He's in a Tesla, self-driving. So his hands are not on the wheel. And he was like, I don't know, clicking.

He actually got pulled over. He's a guy on the subway who's clicking and people, you know, doing their thing, and he just looks kind of like a goober because that's what you look like when you have this thing on, as we can tell from Zagre others. Oh, I'm not so sure about that. Look at me over here. I'm having the time of my life. You look really cool there.

I'm looking here. I'm on my computer. So, Zagre, where do you put this in terms of, you know, there's people like myself who are like, this just seems like another way to have more screens in front of your face, not particularly revolutionary. There are other people who think that this is like groundbreaking. That's going to be the whole new thing, new era. Where do you fall on that spectrum? What do you find to be the most sort of like, I don't know, revolutionary about the technology?

So, for me, this is just V1 of the future. I love gadgets. So my dad and I were Google Glass guys, just so people know. We had Google Glass. You are those guys. Yeah, we're freaks. So we're one of those. Now, the real reason that I bought this and wanted to use it and cashed out some Ethereum just to be able to buy it was specifically because I thought this is the best piece of enterprise tech that I had seen yet. So Oculus, which is the meta quest headset that they have out there, that one is much more geared towards gaming. And I'm not a gamer.

I don't particularly care. But what I do love, love about this is entertainment is secondary to me for the enterprise application. And what I mean by that is my sheer ability to be able to do work wherever the hell that I want to. I recorded a video actually here on the Vision Pro at home showing everyone how it was working on my monologue yesterday and kind of the cool setup that I had literally while I was sitting on my couch in my living room. Let's take a listen. Hello, everybody. I am coming to you from my living room. As you can see, I want to give a little demo of how I would use the Apple Vision Pro. This is quite literally what I am doing right now. First, I want to show everybody one of my coolest and favorite things about this thing, which is called the environments. So currently, I am fully immersed now in Joshua Tree. So as you guys can see, I literally was

just there. And even though I'm in my house, I swear to God, I feel like I am right, right there. And you can see a little bit of the pass through that's happening here right now. So what I have here in front of me is actually the script for my monologue, which I can, I'm writing, I can do some editing. This is fully functional with my laptop keyboard, which is right in front of me. If I want to watch a little bit of Apple TV, I can have it all right here, as you guys can see. And then here, I've got what you can use in terms of YouTube or Safari. This is just on the browser. As you guys can see, I'm scrolling. We can look this way, et cetera. If you guys want to get a little preview of the actual keyboard and all that, you could see here, you get the keyboard that pops up right here in front of you.

It's actually really, really cool. So for me, this is just the ultimate desktop experience. I've got full 360 degree vision everywhere I look, as you guys can see with me, even though I am right here. I'm also using the optical insert, so I don't even have my glasses that are on me right now. So anyways, that's why I love this thing so far. There's my video, Crystal. What do you think?

You're not a little bit entranced by it? No. I mean, just sitting there. Okay. You have the biggest desktop in the world. You can do anything. You got this, you got this, you got this. I don't need more things to disconnect me or my children, by the way, especially my son.

I would not like kids anywhere near this, I will tell you that. From reality. Like I already have enough ways to disconnect myself from reality and be constantly distracted by work and Twitter and YouTube and whatever. And then also, you know, I mean some of the videos I saw, I saw one of this dude who was, you know, it's like, oh my God, I'm using the maps in Apple Vision Pro and it's actually amazing. And you see the vision of what it is and he's just like walking down the street and the map instead of being here on his phone, it's just like, oh, it's right there. It's like, that's not revolutionary. It's just makes you, you are even more disconnected from your surroundings and even more in your own bubble and have exactly the same access to tech that you already had on your phone. So no, I'm not excited. I'm the opposite of excited. I am

anti-excited about it. I'm sort of like dreading the possibility that this thing could take off and we all be even more sort of like remote and distant from each other. Here's the case I would give. The case is, is that at the very least, Apple is not committed to quote unquote virtual reality. They're committed to augmented reality. The idea being that I can see you, I'm interacting with you right now, but I can also click this button and I can throw, like, I've got my text messages right now that you can't see, but that I'm literally like throwing up like over here and I can look up. When you're with someone, you want to be able to talk to them and like see their eyeballs. How many times do you go out to eat and you see what are two people who are sitting across doing?

They're sitting on their phones already. Right, and that's terrible. People are already immersing their phones. That's bad. We shouldn't be like, let's do that more. Let's just put it like right in front of our eyeballs instead of having to surreptitiously like check and be a copa. I think it's better. I think it's better.

So, look, this is V1. Like, it's going to be a lot smaller. Three to five years from now, think about iPhone 1 versus iPhone 4. It's a completely different change. Again, I would say that the enterprise application of this is amazing. Now, just in terms of the sheer tech, the first time that you see something appear in front of your eyeballs that has been placed there is insanity. I can barely describe what it feels like. It's like magic. Honestly, it feels like magic. The first time that you open it and you put it on, the hello that usually comes up on your desktop screen flashes in front of

your eyes. I was taking it back. I was like, oh my God, you've seen video and all that, but it's difficult to comprehend. So, I mean, listen, we're already in a world of tech. We're already addicted to our phones and all that. This is just what the next jump could look like. I would be much, I would be much more in favor of the augmented reality, the spatial computing that Apple is doing, which is an extension of your already existing ecosystem and or work as opposed to fully going ready player one, like living in a different world. So for that, for that, I think that this accomplishes that quite well. And I mean, if you like, if you're a video editor

or if you have something that you want to get really up close with, it's really useful. I mean, I'm telling you, like I had stuff right in front of me and I was trying to, you know, look at a video, actually the one that I shot just frame by frame, just to see what it would look like. I can't imagine, you know, for people like the, for the guys who work on our show, the ability to like zoom in with your hands, it's just like minority report. It feels like minority report is actually real. So, I mean, I think it's really cool. I definitely think that three to five years from now, when this tech is fully deployable, it could completely replace both the laptop computer and the television. So, I mean, then you have a combined thing. Also, I have a flight later today, so I'm actually really pumped to try to actually use it

on the airplane. So the downsides, I would be remiss if I didn't give the downsides. It's heavy, let's be real. Also, this dongle battery thing, it's annoying because you have to put it in your back pocket, and it's only got two hours. So it costs more money if you want to buy extra. The other thing I didn't realize is that, you know when you download a movie or whatever on your phone, it's like 400 megs? On these, they're like four gigs because you have to be able to throw it up in a full 1080p or 4K HD, like a hundred screen TV. So the hard drive on mine, I got the cheapest one. It's like 256 gigs or whatever. But I mean, honestly, if you're trying to consume download content, you're going

to need a hell of a lot of space for something like this. But overall, I mean, listen, you know, for a first try, it's a risky device. And I like that. I think it's cool. Mark me down as a hater. I'm a skeptic. Well, you haven't even tried it on yet. I'm already a hater and a skeptic. I'm going full, like, get off my lawn on this one. That's good. Listen. Listen, just my view. Every technology comes with pluses and minuses, right? This is so much of an advance. There's so much benefit to this. And even it has massive drawbacks, some of which you're talking about in your monologue today, as a matter of fact. So you always have to weigh, like, do the pluses outweigh the minuses.

And who knows? Maybe I'm just not creative enough to imagine the possibilities of it. But the idea of like, oh, I can multitask better, or I can be more consumed in my work, or I can be more distracted while I'm having a conversation with people right in front of me, that benefit does not outweigh the cons of increasing disconnection, increasing like insularity, increasing, you know, remoteness from the actual real world. My personal view. Well, listen, Crystal,

whenever you've done a multiple FaceTime call and you're all just hanging out together and you're VR, it feels like you're right there. We can all go visit Joshua Tree together and we don't even have to go. Isn't that lovely? It's a joke.

Or you could actually, yeah. You should visit Joshua Tree. You could actually touch grass is the other alternative. So anyway, thank you guys for sticking with us. This was a fun review. What's next? Oh, see, I can look right there. We've got media next. See, I can still read. See, he's not even connected to our show right now. He doesn't even know where he is or what comes next in our show. Here, I'll pull it up right here. Anyway, all right, we're going to take a second so Sagar can take these ridiculous things off of his face.

And then we're going to talk about what just happened on Fox News. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her.

And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister.

There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad.

Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast.

Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players

all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug man Benny the Butcher, Brent Smith from Shinedown, got B-Real from

Cypress Hill, NHL enforcer Riley Cote, Marine Corvette, MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does.

It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So an absolutely insane situation unfolded live on Fox News on Sean Hannity's program. He was in the middle of interviewing the head of the quote-unquote guardian angels in New York, this dude Curtis Lee, while you guys probably heard of him. They're this sort of like street vigilante group. And in the middle of the live interview, they turned the cameras to the guardian

angels, like beating up and putting in a headlock and throwing on the ground some random dude. Take a look at how all of this unfolds. If you divide 53 million by 500, that's $106,000 debit card. Not a bad deal. I don't think they're giving them to vets that are homeless in New York City. Not that I've heard, Curtis. In fact, our guys have just taken down one of the migrant guys right here on the corner, 42nd and 7th. Can you pan the camera? They've taken over. They've taken over. down one of the migrant guys right here on the corner 42nd and 7th while all this is Can you pan the camera?

They've taken over. They've taken over. You'd like the camera over there if at all possible. Yep. You got your key open, guys. It's out of control. Out of control out of control there all right now eric adams often complains he's getting no support from the federal government to help him with the surge of joe biden's unvetted illegals in new york and that could be because of the so-called border czar

is a little distracted right now. According to a report, Vice President Harris has now suddenly, quote, found her footing. So for those of you who are just listening, what you see is the camera pans over to this group of, quote unquote, guardian angels in red jackets, wrestling this man, putting him in a headlock to the ground. OK, that's what happens on screen. And then you can hear there Sean Hannity sort of quickly changes the subject interview over and moves on to whatever Kamala Harris segment he has up next. So later on, apparently they go back to Curtis Lee to get an explanation of like, what the hell just happened here? His story about this quote unquote migrant guy that he claims is one of these illegals that Joe Biden is letting into the city. He says he had been shoplifting first. The guardian angel spotted

him, stopped him. He resisted. And let's just say we gave him a little pain compliance. His mother back in Venezuela felt the vibrations. He's sucking concrete. The cops scraped him off the asphalt. He's on his way to jail, but they'll cut him loose. We've got to take 42nd Street back, Sean. These illegals think they own this street. They think they rule the night. This is our country. Hannity goes on to describe the role of the guardian angels as quote unquote amazing.

Well, it turns out all of that was completely a lie. First of all, put this up on the screen. So this is NBC News. First of all, the man that they said was a quote unquote migrant is a New Yorker from the Bronx. Let's start there. He's from the US. Number two, they talked to the cops. The cops said they had no proof of the shoplifting claims. They did give this guy some disorderly conduct citation because they said he was disrupting a live TV interview. So apparently what actually happened here is that the guardian angels decided, I don't know if this dude was really

disrupting the live TV shot or whatever, but they just effectively picked him out of the crowd, thought that he looked brown and maybe was possibly speaking Spanish, and then just tackle him and wrestle him to the ground. And the NYPD has stopped answering questions about, hey, what about the guardian angels basically open public assault and hate crime, targeted hate crime that occurred on camera? Is there any responsibility or accountability for them whatsoever? Completely insane situation. Yeah, so Saliwa said he believed the man was a migrant because he had been speaking Spanish and because other guardians had encountered people with Spanish speakers on previous patrols. Have you never been to New York City before? Like, what are you talking about? People would speak in Spanish there for a hundred years. Speaking Spanish doesn't mean that you can,

like, beat a person up and put them in a headlock and throw them on the ground. The whole situation is totally nuts. I actually was not familiar with the group. Apparently, traces back, you were explaining to me, from 1979, whenever Sliwa founded them to, quote, patrol the streets and subways during the high crime days, have drawn criticism since that time, I think fairly, for allegations of targeting people of color, criminals.

So they say, vigilantism is not the answer. One of the city council members. Yeah. The whole situation is nuts. Like, look, you know, people know my views on immigration. I'm not supportive of illegal migration or any of these people being in New York city, but this man is a U S citizen. You can't be roughing up as a private citizen, random people, just because they're speaking Spanish. First of all, he doesn't deserve to be beat up. Okay. That's a job for the authorities. That's not for you. If he was a shoplifter or whatever. Number two, it's like, guys, you still can't. First of all, even if he doesn't migrate, he doesn't deserve to be beat up. Okay? That's a job for the authorities. That's not for you. If he was a shoplifter or whatever.

Number two, it's like, guys, you can't just be roughing up random people who are speaking Spanish in New York. Have you ever been to Times Square? It's the norm not to hear English. You know? It's like, it's mostly tourists. It's people from everywhere else. Yeah. The only people in New York who are in Times Square who are, like, from New York are the people who, people who work in those downtown office buildings who have the misfortune of having to go there.

Everybody else is just a tourist. Nobody else is anything other. If you actually live in New York, which I did for many years, you avoid Times Square at all. It's the plague. I mean, there's a lot to say about it. First of all, the whole thing from Sliwa is, oh, my God, it's chaos. These migrants are taking over, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, tourists are casually walking by, and everything's fine.

The only disturbance is your goons roughing up for no reason, targeting this man and throwing him on the ground. And again, I just want to say the shoplifting thing is bullshit. There is no credence to that whatsoever. There's no evidence. The cops are saying that didn't happen, et cetera. So I don't want to give any credence to that. Not that even if he was shoplifting that the answer is to put him in a headlock and throw him on the ground, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't want to give any credence to that. Not that even if he was shoplifting that the answer is to put him in a headlock and throw him on the ground, et cetera, et cetera. So the criminals here are the quote unquote guardian angel vigilante hate crime

perpetrators out in broad public on the Hannity show. Second of all, can you imagine if on MSNBC they had something like Reverend Sharpton leading a gang of people to just randomly assault some white guy on the street live on camera. Can you imagine the freakout over that? I mean, that's exactly like the parallel of what we watched unfold over on Fox News. And it's complete insanity. I mean, they lost their minds on this one. And I just, the fact that they're, obviously this went viral online, but the fact that it hasn't been an even bigger deal to me speaks to a real sort of double standard that's going on here because this was completely insane to watch unfold. Well, what do you mean by that? What do you mean by double standard?

Well, like I said, if it was Reverend Sharpton and leading a gang of black people to beat up some like random white dude on the street, what do you think? You think that would be national news right now? Well, absolutely. Yeah. 100%. We would never hear the end of it. They would be arrested. The cops wouldn't be saying like, oh, it's fine. We just, we gave the white dude a disorderly conduct charge because he was disrupting a live TV broadcast. It's a total double standard. I'm not sure I agree with that. I mean, people literally burned, rioted, and looted for two years straight or like on camera broadcast live supported by with that. I mean, people literally burned, rioted, and looted for two years straight, or like on camera, broadcast live, supported by the media. No, and they were prosecuted. No, very, very. They were prosecuted. Very few people. The people who

were violent were prosecuted. No, that is not true. How do you think it would go down if the situation that I described, do you think they'd be let off with, oh, it's fine, and it just would like go viral online, but no one would report on it and that they would face no charges or whatever. Of course not. I'm not quite, listen, I'm not defending these guys whatsoever, but I'm not quite so sure that this would be like some major thing, especially if there was a racial angle to it the other way. Let's say they were like, oh, well, he beat up somebody and they beat him up. Like, I'm not quite sure that those people would be prosecuted, to the full extent of the law because of liberal pressure. So you're crazy. Yeah. You think that that Reverend Sharpton could lead a gang of dudes to beat up a white dude on the street on camera on MSNBC and everyone

would just be like, no big deal. I mean, he incited a riot against Jews in the 80s. Yeah, and it was a big deal. And we still know about it. Yeah. I mean, I know about it. We're still walking around like it went to jail. We know all about it. Sure, yeah. We can go. It was a massive news story. Yeah. It was a big deal. What's the news story?

And there were consequences. Here, they just let off scot-free and nothing. The dude that they beat up is the one who got the citation. I mean, it's in the New York Times. It's in the Guardian. It's been like every major paper. We're covering it. You know, it's like, it's not like it's getting totally ignored.

Now, listen, I think these guys should be arrested. Like, don't get me wrong. I support the rule of law. But I'm not going to say that, you know, quote, unquote, liberal violence or whatever would be equally treated just because I did not live through that experience a couple of years ago during BLM. It was massive. The violence at BLM was massively covered. Massively covered. But was it massively prosecuted?

The people, yes, they were prosecuted. Some people were prosecuted. Absolutely, they were prosecuted. I mean, there are people here in Lafayette Square trying to bring down a statue and never face a single charge. People who broke down looted cities, people who burned down- Who faced charges. Some people faced charges. Faced charges. Very few people burned down a Minnesota police station. Look, liberal violence got plenty of passes in this country. And I, again,

want to be 100% clear. I think these people are criminals. But hold on a second. Can you even imagine MSNBC playing something like that? No, I cannot. to be 100% clear. I think these people are criminals. But hold on a second. Can you even imagine MSNBC playing something like that? No, I cannot. No, you can't. Case closed. But they already did. It's not like they didn't broadcast violence in the past.

The whole most peaceful riot. Sean Hannity said this was quote unquote amazing. Yeah, I think it's bad. I'm not supporting it. But I mean, how many people were on TV during the BLM riots being like, well, you know, the riot is the voice of the unheard. And they were condemned. No, they weren't. Yes, they were by Joe Biden and every Democrat.

Later on. We're actually the ones who want to fund the police and it's the Republicans who want to fund them. That happened months later in the moment they were supported dramatically by every liberal commentator, every media institution. But you also have to remember, especially at the beginning, the overwhelming percentage of Black Lives Matter protests were peaceful. There were protests all over the country, and many of them were peaceful, and the vast majority of people who participated in them were peaceful. So it's also not fair to smear the whole thing as like they were all violent. People who marched silently, great. Right. You know, I have no issue with you. I sat by, I watched them. I said, hey, good to go.

People were burned out. But this is the thing. Look, they burned down that Minnesota police station, what, six days or whatever into the whole George Floyd thing. It's not like it just kicked off and it was like all kumbaya at the beginning. Things went bad very, very quick. Look, there's not a lot of disagreement. I don't think though that there is a double standard in the way that you're saying, given what we all had to live through. I cannot imagine a situation reverse that unfolds on camera. That first of all, the hosts are just like, that was incredible.

And it's a blip on the radar. And the person who got attacked is the one that gets the citation. I can't imagine it. Listen, you can't argue a counterfactual. Who knows how it would unfold. But again, I can't even imagine that same thing happening on MSNBC or CNN. Let me give you an example. These migrants who just beat up NYPD cops, they were just arrested. The guy flipped them off. I mean,

how many people watching MSNBC know about that story? That has been massively covered. It's been massively covered by the right wing media, the New York Post. No, that's gotten huge. When I Google it, it's ABC News, Fox News, New York Post. It's barely covered by NBC, even then it's because it's like Kathy Hogan. You know what? Actually, I saw Reverend Sharpton commenting on that exact same thing on MSNBC. I don't watch MSNBC. I don't either, but I saw the headline about it. So it did get coverage on MSNBC. Anyway, we can stop arguing about the counterfactual. That was an absolutely insane thing to unfold on Fox News. And for the dude who got beat up because he was brown and speaking Spanish, apparently, to be the one that ends up with the citation and the

cops cover for these assholes, vigilante hate crime perpetrators on the street. I'm with you on that one. Two of my brothers who are out there who are walking around speaking Spanish, you don't deserve to be wrapped up on the street. I think that's totally nuts. I hope the guys who did go to jail. Let's move on to, yes, let's move on to Tucker. His big interview with Putin, I think, when is it dropping, today or tomorrow? It is alleged, nobody knows. It has been foretold by the Russians that it will be happening tonight at 6 p.m. All right. So listen, whatever you think about Tucker Carlson, the reaction to this has been completely insane, including there are some EU politician, diplomats, whatever you want to call them now, who are floating that he should be sanctioned and banned from the EU.

Put this up on the screen. This is from Newsweek. This is the second element, guys, that we have here, E3. Tucker Carlson could face sanctions over the Putin interview. One European diplomatic official didn't wish to be named as they were not authorized to speak publicly. Told Newsweek any future travel restrictions would likely require proof he is linked to Moscow's aggression, something that is absent or hard to prove. So they're saying it's kind of a long shot that this would actually come through. But the same person who says it's a long shot says that they support it.

Yes. They agree with the stance, quote, he's no longer a newsman, but a propagandist for the most heinous regime on European soil and the one which is most dangerous to our peace and security, this diplomat said to the Newsweek of Carlson. At the same time, Hillary Clinton weighing in on her thoughts on the whole situation. Let's take a listen to that. He's like a puppy dog. You know, he somehow has, after having been fired from so many outlets in the United States, he, I would not be surprised if he emerges with a contract with an outlet because he is a useful idiot. He says things that are not true. He parrots Vladimir Putin's pack of lies about Ukraine. So I don't see why Putin wouldn't give him an interview,

because through him, he can continue to lie about what his objectives are in Ukraine and what he expects to see happen. It's really quite sad that not just somebody like Tucker Carlson, who has, as I said, been fired so many times because he seems unable to, you know, correlate his reporting with the truth, but also because it's a sign that there are people in this country right now who are like a fifth column for Vladimir Putin. And why? I don't know.

I mean, why are certain Republicans throwing their lot in? Why are, you know, other Americans basically believing Putin? Why did Trump believe Putin more than our 11 intelligence agencies? I don't know. Do you have a working theory on that? I do have a working theory. So, I mean, it's just... She's still on Russia. Insane.

Both of them, too. They're still on it. And she just lets that all go, of course. Come on! Yes. And listen, I mean, my first thing with all of this is the interview hasn't even happened yet. I know!

That's the craziest part. Like, the people were like, this is going to be amazing. And the people were like, this is terrible. It's like, can we just wait and judge the interview? I could not agree with you more. But that being said, even if it's complete propaganda, which I think is very possible, if not probable, if not likely, we hear the US Western propaganda all the time.

You know what? It's a benefit to hear the other side propaganda too and understand their perspective, how they're spinning it to their population. So even if it's 100% propaganda, then it still is a good thing for the American population to hear what the Russians are saying and how they are explaining this conflict in their position. Even that would be beneficial. I'm glad you said that because that's basically what I was going to pick up on. Everyone's like, okay, so first of all, they're like, well, he has to challenge him or otherwise it's not real. I'm like, okay, so first of all, they're like, well, you know, he has to challenge him or otherwise it's not real. I'm like, yeah, you guys have been slobbering over Zelensky for the last two years. And Applebaum, you know, literally with tears in her eyes talking about

the goddamn hero of democracy. I just watched a clip of a CNN reporter literally nearly in tears talking with Zelensky. So shut up about propaganda, number one. You people have been the propagandists in this war from the beginning. Number two, as you said. Now look, I hope that Tucker actually does challenge him on a couple of things. Number one is the detention of the American journalist, Evan Gersovich, who is currently in prison unjustifiably and needs to be released. I will be very disappointed if he doesn't bring that up, but maybe it was a precondition or something like that. I personally would not have agreed to that. We'll see. As you said, the literal thing has not aired yet. Two is on the justification. I'll be like, you said you're doing this to make Russia safer. Now, listen, I don't agree that the United States should be all that involved. That said,

you've killed 300,000 of your men, you know, maybe more of the people here. How do you sleep at night? You know, what do you tell those moms who lost their sons and daughters who were there? What's the justification? I want to hear that. But then even if it wasn't challenging, as you said, okay, so I have been subjected to the biggest Ukrainian psyop of war in my lifetime since Iraq. Yeah, I want to hear a little bit of what the other side is. I'm a fully functioning, capable adult who can see Putin talking about the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk and be like, that's bullshit. That's not actually what happened. Many people can do that too. So if we're subjected to our own propaganda, Ukrainian propaganda now for over two years,

a little bit of Russian propaganda ain't going to hurt anybody. If anything, it's just going to be in the mix and people who already agree or disagree or whatever will likely fall on that side. The other thing is, is that you have to be able to understand the goals and the impetus of what they are saying. And that's part of the other thing where on the history and all that, Putin speaks as a Russian czar. As I just referenced the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk.

How many people who have people of strong opinion, even here in Washington, can even tell you about the independence of Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, the historical Soviet empire? I don't agree with Putin at all, but I need to understand where the guy is coming from, period. I don't want to go to nuclear war. I would like to be able to understand where he comes from. And the same thing, the Chinese interpretation of the opium wars and all that stuff is nuts. Like they literally think themselves currently as the, uh, as the inheritors of like the, whatever the King dynasty or something like that. But if we are to be rivals and all that stuff, I better understand how their self-conception of their national identity goes back. Even if you do not agree. Like, think about what's happened

since the war. We've had RT be banned. We've had like, what, Sputnik and all this, but many of these journalists have been expelled here from Washington for, for what reason? It's like, it's one of those where I, again, would much rather hear what these people have to say. I used to watch when I covered the Pentagon and the State Department, we had, we had straight up Russian Sputnik people who were right next to us asking all kinds of BS questions. But it was actually very useful because I'd be like, oh, that's what's pissing the Kremlin off whenever they would ask a question or something like that. It was very useful to be able to just get in the mind. Again, you don't have to agree with somebody.

That's just how I see this whole situation. Yeah. I mean, that is crazy. I also would like to know from him what he would say that he would publicly accept in terms of a peace settlement. Yeah, totally. Like that would be really, you know, that would be extremely important to know. All that being said, I don't think we should also harbor any illusions about why they allowed Tucker to conduct this interview, which is they certainly think it's going to be a softball and think it's going to be easy for them to manage. It's the same reason why Hillary Clinton accepts an interview from

Alex Wagner at MSNBC. Exactly. The exact same reason. And Tucker did kind of step in it. I mean, this is the part where like, don't put yourself out there like, oh, I'm some brave journalist. When there are literal, actual Russian journalists who've had to flee the freaking country because they were willing to stand up to power and to expose this dude. So don't put that out there. And you can put this up on the screen, even sort of stepped in it with the Kremlin, because he said in this thing that, you know, why is it that not a single Western journalist has bothered to interview Putin? And Dmitry Peskov, the spokesperson for the Kremlin, came back and said, Mr. Carlson's not

correct. In fact, there's no way he could know this, but we received numerous requests for interviews with the president all the time. And there were a number of other journalists who came out and were like, dude, I've asked to interview Putin any number of times. And of course, they always reject it. And it's not an accident that they're allowing you to come in and do this interview because they think it will serve their purposes. So let's just keep it 100 on that front as well. He's got to sell memberships. It is what it is. So let's just keep it 100 on that front as well. He's got to sell memberships. It is what it is. I would not have said it just because it's very obvious that many people do actually want to interview Putin, people who are in the West.

There was something though, I want to comment on this, like you just said, where they're like, oh, they only agreed to it. I'm like, yeah, guess what guys, you want to interview a VIP? That's just how it goes sometimes. They don't have to sit with you in these things. When I would interview Trump, I played every card I could get to try and get in there. So did every other journalist who was there. That's why Hillary sits with Alex Wagner so they can giggle over Russiagate there at the end. I'm not justifying it, but to a certain extent, guys, we're all playing the same game. You know, Tucker said in his thing that he had requested an interview with Zelensky. What, yeah, you think Zelensky's going to sit with him? Or does Zelensky sit with NBC News? Because he knows he's going to get a slob job in the same way that he has been for the last two

years. So at a certain point, I mean, let's all be honest about the game that we are playing. I'm not playing that game. You're not playing that game. There's a reason why Joe Biden and Hillary. Right. That's what I'm saying, though, is there's a reason why Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton would never sit with us. There's a reason why, you know, Putin would never like there's a reason why many elected officials won't come on here because we won't agree. They don't expect us to get a softball interview and kudos to the ones who are willing to. But unfortunately, it's not the norm. It's exception of people who are actually willing to come on and mix it up. And I was going to say, we have a business model which is set up so that we can talk about stuff and we can

occasionally build enough of a platform that people will come here. But if you are in the game of interviewing like elected officials, this is how it works, period. Look, it's the same as access journalism here in the US. Yes, exactly. It's the exact same thing. Right. I do think that there's a lot to the panic over it. I mean, I do think it's emblematic of the fact that they're so afraid that something he says, because any good propaganda is going to have some kernel of truth, that something might land, that something might actually click, change. And they're already on thin ice with their whole narrative of the Ukraine conflict.

Even here, they're on thin ice, let alone around the world. Nobody's ever bought that this is some grand project of democracy and human rights and whatever. No, it's never been about that. And our conduct vis-a-vis Ukraine-Russia versus Israel-Palestine really shows you how that's complete BS that we care about any of those things. So I think they feel like their narrative is already at kind of a breaking point, no pun intended, when this interview drops. And obviously, it's going to get tons of eyeballs. Plenty of people who will never admit that they watch it are definitely going to watch it as well. Of course. You know, and that's the other thing. I think really what they're afraid of is, listen, I don't like Putin. I'm

no Putin fan or any of that. He's a smart guy. You know, he may be crazy in many respects. He's done some irrational things. But I've listened to a lot of his speeches. He's a well-read man. He's been a world leader for over 25 years. And he's very, you know, you don't become the iron ruler of Russia because you're an idiot. Like these guys, they know who they're talking to. I've seen past interviews that he's given where he'll throw January 6th or whatever in the face of the interviewer in the short circuit because they don't know what they're dealing with. He knows how to navigate American politics. He speaks perfect English.

Like he reads all of our news and all that. And I think they're honestly afraid that he'll say something which could convince people in a different direction. But again, even if so, so what? You know, if we allow Zelensky or, you know, I would love to see Xi Jinping sit for an interview. MBS is set for interviews. You know, all of these are great. These are all good things. You know, MBS was, I believe he was challenged on Khashoggi to his face by a US interviewer. I forget who it was.

That's a great moment. You know, that's one of those where we should have the exact same thing and we need to hear exactly what they think. It's helpful for us, helpful for them. You know, what if Putin makes a fool out of himself? It could be definitely helpful in terms of the Ukrainians. I'm sure they can use clips for it,

even if they're super upset about it. So anyway, more information, not less. That's kind of the maxim. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case.

They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother.

She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never got any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there

and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st,

and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way.

Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding

of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things.

Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. All right, Sog, what are we looking at?

Well, a crazy phenomenon that I've observed in the last few years is a concerted mainstream effort to target online mail spaces for self-improvement. Much of it can be traced back to Gamer McGate and the fake moral panics about the so-called pickup movement. But in recent years, it's transformed into something else entirely. The latest iteration that you will all famously recall is the infamous MSNBC article about fitness is somehow fascist. But at a deeper level, the demonization has been in many forms for recent months and years. The targeting of any discussion about testosterone, about people doing their own research when it comes to medical procedures.

My personal favorite latest, it recommends that people eat less protein because it goes against what the US government recommends on nutrition. The tilt to all of it is a fear of self-discovery, self-mastery, and self-improvement, mostly by men who are eschewing official recommendations by medicine and government. The latest and the most shocking attack on this front occurred a few days ago by NPR, which ran a hit piece on a community of men online who are dedicated to shunning pornography and spreading the concern about its widespread usage of young men. The way that you know it is a hit piece is it relies on the testimony of so-called sexual experts, as if there is such a thing, and appears to basically endorse widespread porn usage by young men. They write, quote, many researchers and sex therapists worry that the online communities

that have formed in response to fears often endorse inaccurate medical information, exacerbate mental health problems, and in some cases overlap with extremist and hate groups. Extremist and hate groups? My God. So by the way, if you're wondering what those ties are, the NPR reporter relies on Reddit users making jokes in comments about the Illuminati and global elite, as well as an alleged anti-feminist bent to caution around pornography. But what actually shocked me about the piece is not that it ran, but what I found out from one of the organizers behind the movement and how this piece fits into a concerted and multi-billion dollar effort in recent months by pornography companies to demonize men who are

trying their best to stay away from them and institute guardrails for teenagers. Much of the machinery behind this story appears to have been orchestrated by the so-called free speech coalition in the United States. These so-called sex expert and neurologist who are quoted in the story, both either have ties to the porn industry or have been supporters in the past. In fact, when I spoke to a person involved in the so-called no fat movement who worked with NPR on the story, they revealed to me that NPR did not reach out to many of the people that they recommended they reach out to who have been positively impacted from abstaining from pornography. They instead decided to highlight a few examples of their own, only one who spoke positively, and including two who said that they were no longer followers of the movement. By the way,

as evidence for one of their former adherents who is now healthy, they pointed out to an individual who previously had ditched pornography, now consumes pornography regularly, and indulges in a cross-dressing fetish. According to them, that is supposedly healthy and cool, while ditching pornography is bad. Those that I spoke with at NOFAP also notified me that NPR was provided with a list of 22 separate urologists that they could interview who would support their health claims. Their NPR instead interviewed their own, who, as I said, is a verified friend of the pornography industry. None of this is happening in a vacuum. Much of it is tied directly to a recent government action that is attempting to put age limitations on pornography

usage. In the last year, eight states have now enacted legislation requiring porn companies to verify the age of users attempting to access their content. This has caused major showdowns now between Pornhub and its affiliates with these states, in some cases who are resulting blocking access in states entirely who enact this legislation. The law is very simple. Any website which has more than one-third of its content classified as adult must verify that the users are over the age of 18. Naturally, the porn companies

are freaking out about this new legislation because they rely on hooking teenagers as early as possible and keeping them as lifetime customers. Now, you may say that I'm stupid and that teenagers will seek out porn if there's a law or not, and you are probably right. But does that stop us from having drinking age verification when you order liquor online or when you buy nicotine products? No. We recognize as a society, while some may see harmful substances, or in this case, content, out of the side of the law, the purpose of the law is to try and protect children wherever possible. This is not, and I repeat, not a substitute for parenting. It is an effort by states to protect children from what we used to recognize as something that's harmful. The NPR

article purpose is simple. Concerns about pornography are unfounded. If they're unfounded, then age verification laws, which states are rushing to adopt, are bad. You could call me a prude if you wish, but ask yourself, why is it all that controversial when every person who has ever seen a child interact with an iPad can instantly recognize we are in uncharted territory with the nature of addictive nature of today's technology. I write this as secular and non extremists who has long been concerned about the unchecked power of the porn industry in the United States. I don't think they should be banned. I believe adults can make choices for themselves, but I do certainly believe that the media should speak up for those who find themselves

at the mercy of these forces, working to keep them weak rather than as a defender of them. So I'm curious what you think, Crystal, after all of that. I thought the way that it was written was absolutely, I think there's a way that you could have written it where you could have given more of a balanced approach, but the way that it was, you know, the people who they highlighted and all of that, the ties were just so clear to me, especially when I spoke with the guys who were a target of this. They were like, we tried to work with her. She was not giving us a single chance. They didn't reach out to any of the people we spoke to. It was like a completely unidirectional. It's like when you set out to write a story that you know you want the headline to be, and then you just rely on the people for that. But I find your monologue,

I'm just going to say, a little confusing because the overwhelming part of the article had nothing to do with porn. It was about masturbation. It was about these cult, like these groups like NoFap, which, you know, you guys probably know what that means, which are all about telling men the solution to their problems is to never masturbate and backing it up with all these completely bullshit health claims. And so, you know, totally opposite the idea that this is an attack on men who are trying to self-actualize or whatever. I see it more as an attack on these people who are trying to take advantage of men and lie to them and add more stress to their lives. And they interviewed people who were like, yeah, I thought that, you know, if I did this like 90

day, no masturbation cleanse, then like all my problems would be solved. And instead I just ended up with more problems because I was so constantly stressed down about trying to figure out how not to jerk off basically. So I just found it kind of like strange that that was your takeaway when porn was very incidental to this very long piece. The reason why is that the no,ap, first of all, nofap, whatever, this is hilarious to talk about. I mean, these are grifters. These are grifters who are lying to dudes. That's a legitimate target. That is not actually what the organization is based on. The organization is not based on masturbation or cloning. But it's called nofap. No, no, no, no. It seems like what it's about. It traces back to your brain on porn,

which is the original website and the movement overall, which is dynamically, uh, dynamically is targeted to keeping people away from pornography. There are many schools of the whole, like no masturbation, semen retention, all this other nonsense, which I, yeah. But that's what the article is focused on. That's what it's focused. It's not focused on the porn part of it. It's focused on these communities of dudes who have convinced themselves that like the secret to their problems is not masturbating, which is stupid and wrong and just going to stress you more out. The article for me was trying to undermine the overall movement, which is not focused nearly as much on the whatever, all this nonsense about testosterone increasing or,

you know, whatever. It was much more an attempt, at least this is the way I read it, to try and undermine the overall movement, which is almost entirely, if you were to engage and to go on the space, is centered around pornography. It has nothing to do with any of these claims about masturbation or about semen, whatever, testosterone, et cetera. It's called nofap.com. I mean, there's clearly an element of that. I think you're reading a lot into it that isn't there. I read the whole piece. It's lengthy. It's all about this, like, you know, pseudoscience about how, you know, your testosterone increase

and girls will love you and you'll feel better and you'll be like a real man if you don't jerk off anymore, which is like predatory. That's like predatory to men. So I just viewed it through the total opposite lens of it didn't really take a position on pro-pornography or anti-pornography. That was like incidental to the whole thing. I don't think it's true because if you look at the quote-unquote survivors and the people who are no longer adherents, all of them talk about consumption of pornography. Because again, pornography is the one that is upstream of this entire discussion. Well, what they say is –

It has nothing to do with many of the – look, like I said, nofap.com and all of that, the vast majority of the content is not focused about what we're talking about here. It is all about pornography. Now, the people I spoke to have been under attack now for years by the porn industry, largely because they understand that any abstention from masturbation or sexual behavior or whatever is itself obviously an attack on the porn industry. And I don't think it's an accident that it happens whenever the North Carolina law, Virginia, where we both live, both considering legislation on this. There are actually 14 now states that are thinking about adopting. This has all happened in the last several months. For me, though, again, the way

I read it, and I thought it was telling that they focus on pornography amongst the quote unquote survivors of the survivors or whatever of this thing. Is that they're trying to make a straw man of a claimant of a movement which is not the vast majority of people who are engaging with this type of content. But here's the thing. I mean, again, when I read it, the parts where they talk about pornography, I think it also makes a lot of sense of basically like, you know, these people had been convinced that like all pornography, you have to completely abstain and you have an addiction if you're watching porn like once a week or once a month or whatever. And that that was adding a lot of shame and pressure to their lives that didn't belong. So I don't see anything nefarious in that. Well, I mean, look, it depends. More what I would say is like if we can have a, again, I'm a look, it depends. More what I would say is like,

if we can have a, again, I'm a secular person. I got no Christian undertones to all of this, but I think we, you know, at least when we use our phone, at least when we use any sort of technology that we can understand as addictive, alcohol, anything, we can see at the beginning from the outset, we're like, this is a trade-off. I don't think that is baked into teenagers and others, especially men who are well into the 30s, 40s now, who have grown up on the Internet. The norms and all of the other things that people have internalized around things that are harmful, that does not exist with pornography. And I think that's what most of the nofap, quote unquote, movement, people online, people on Instagram and others who talk about this are trying to get into people's heads. So for me, this is way, whatever this is, I think is a very, very small part of abstention from pornography movement, which is widespread, increasingly taking off, and I hope it continues to do so for people who are young and is a straw man to try and target them to seem as freaks and weirdos, where in my opinion,

it is much more freakish and weird to celebrate widespread pornography usage. And again, to come after and to advocate for legislation, which is what the people who are quoted in this article believe in, is you shouldn't have age verification. If you do outside research- That's not even a part of the article. Age verification thing isn't even in there. I mean, that's not even an argument that's being made here. But I think it is entirely appropriate to expose basically predator grifters who are lying to dudes about, you know, some solution that is just going to create more stress, some quote unquote solution,

which is only going to create more stress and anxiety in their lives. I think that's an entirely appropriate like lane to investigate. And you may not 100% love, you know, the piece that they wrote or the people they talk to or whatever. But to say it's illegitimate to even talk about that and say, hey, this isn't a solution and you're getting lied to. I just I actually think that's a disservice to men. I don't think it's illegitimate. I think that it was biased. I think that the person behind it was clearly used. I don't think she understood the Free Speech Coalition, much of the ties that these doctors and advocates who have been largely appearing at pornography events, which I have evidence that people want to go and look at it and are openly talking and using their power, articles like this, to advocate specifically against age verification laws, which I'm talking

about. I was trying to bring it. No, I know. But they use, this is what they use. They're like, hey, look, these people are all grifters. The people behind this, you want to be aligned with the freaks? Like, that's why you can't support something like this. For me, it's a part of a tool. It's the same way as if you look at the past. The Fitness is a Fascist article that we infamously remember from MSNBC. That whole article was about how some Nazis or whatever like fitness. Sure, is that a legitimate point? Yeah. But what's the subtext? What, what are they trying to say? Is that Jim obsession and all of this is hyper-masculine, can have ties, quote-unquote, to right-wing movements, and is coded as bad? I'm reading this in the same, like, social commentary.

That's not what the article sent out to do. I don't think—I think you're reading too much into it. Maybe I'm crazy. Because, I mean, this reporter's not responsible for that piece, right? This person is writing their own thing about something they seem, you know, is provably harmful to men. And like I said, I think, I think that is a service to men to say, hey, this is a pack of lies and ending your days of jerking off is, first of all, you're not going to be able to accomplish it. And second of all, it's only going to create more stress in your life and is not any sort of a solution for whatever problems you might actually be facing. I think you're being charitable and maybe that's good. Maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy theorist here. For me,

it's a matter of emphasis. It's a matter of where the quote unquote medical establishment falls down on what's good and what's not. And then in general, it's like, we're really going to be policing the thought of a small segment of overall hundreds of thousands of people who are online, who again, this is, we're talking about policing Reddit comments inside of threads as opposed to the overwhelming thing is just, hey, stay away from porn. This is a whole organization that's set up, dedicated to like go on this 90 day, no masturbation, like cleanse situation. I don't know. A huge part of that is about being away from pornography and and is specifically about resetting your relationship to technology and addiction.

That's not what this article is really. Pornography is so incidental to this, and the age verification thing isn't here whatsoever. So I just think you've concocted like an elaborate conspiracy that isn't there in terms of what's actually in the article. We'll see, Crystal. We'll see. When they use one of these articles in a state legislator to argue against the laws, I think I'll be proven. Well, and I also have issues with the idea of everybody having to upload their driver's license before they jerk off. So let me put that on the record as well. Okay. Well, we could talk about that another day. All right, guys, as you can

see, we enjoy having our fun debates here. There were quite a few, right? Last couple of days. It's been spirited lately. Good for breaking points, I think. You guys can support us at breakingpoints.com. And we've got the RFK Junior Focus Group, which is coming up, which will again be exclusively available. Other than that, we will see you all later. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community.

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