Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 4/22/25: Worst April Since Great Depression, China Warns World On US, Hegseth Meltdown, Fired Antiwar Official Speaks Out

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Emily and Saagar discuss worst April since Great Depression, China warns against teaming with US, Hegseth meltdown, fired antiwar official speaks out.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind Boy Sober, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, Boy Sober is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process.

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Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. Do we live for the pound or no? All right, we live, people live for the pound. There we go, I still get to say it. We're fomenting a coup today. Yeah, we're fomenting a coup here over at Breaking Points. Emily is in for Crystal,

who will be back tomorrow and on Thursday, so don't worry about that. But Emily, people have cried out for an Emily in Saga show for a while. According to our records, it has been two years since the last Emily in Saga show. What a gift to everyone in the audience. Yeah, so it is a great gift that we do. So people can't accuse us here of not giving in to our audience demands, right? So the

people demanded it and the people are getting it by plebiscite. So there you go. I think the last time we did, by the way, there was a brick wall behind us. Yes, there was. Yeah, that's right. That was before the new set and everything. So yeah, look, you can see how far we've come. Alright, what the hell are we covering today? This is the toughest part of the job, setting all this up.

Tariffs. All right, tariffs. We're going to talk about tariffs. The worst April for the Dow Jones since the Great Depression. Not exactly a great headline there for the administration. We're going to talk about some of the movements in the stock market. Big dump yesterday of major stock indices, as well as some major movements by China, warning other countries not

to team up with the United States. We're going to continue the coverage of the Pete Hegseth saga. There is just insanity going on. Pete Hegseth knifing his own staff in the back who recently were fired from the Pentagon. We also have one of those former staffers, Dan Caldwell, speaking out on the Tucker Carlson show, really giving us some insight into the knife fights that are happening in the administration over war with Iran. We're going to talk about Kirstie Noem. She apparently got her purse stolen despite having been surrounded by Secret Service agents. She had $3,000 in cash on her. Just some very weird stuff that's going on and obviously also an insight into one of the top law enforcement officers in the United States. This is a topic I selected specifically because Emily is here with

me. We're going to talk about the Trump administration's efforts to boost birth rates here in the United States, focused specifically on motherhood, tax breaks for new moms, medals for mothers that have more than several children. So we're going to break some of that down. We're going to talk about that fight with Harvard between the Trump administration and Harvard, a major escalating legal battle between the two. It stems from that, quote, anti-Semitism fight, but it's actually become much bigger than that. And then we're very excited to be joined by FIRE, the president of FIRE, who is going to break down some of the free speech attacks by the Trump administration. FIRE, Emily, probably the single best organization that's been consistent and principled on these matters over the years. Really, we always look to them for guidance.

They've spoken up on very unpopular issues, popular issues. They don't care literally at all. So we're excited to speak with them. And then also, I guess people are also getting their wish here, an AMA with Emily and I for our premium subscribers. So don't forget, you can support us at BreakingPoints.com. You can participate in these live AMAs and more, and also see Emily every Friday on the Emily show, or on the Friday show. Sorry, I guess we can call it. We should call it. Should we call it the Emily show? Yeah, I like it. I like it. All right. Don't forget, if you can't support us right now and all of the new expansions that we're doing here, it's totally fine. Just make sure that you like and subscribe to this video. And if you're listening to us on a podcast, just go ahead, give us a five-star review, and send the episode to a friend.

That is the single best thing that you can do for us. You can even pick your favorite episode. Emily, you know, what's fascinating in our podcast downloads is that there are hundreds of thousands of people who listen to these, like, at the end of the week. Like, they don't listen to them daily. That's really interesting. We have a huge spike on Fridays and Saturdays. I don't get it. I'll be honest. I don't get it.

But I guess it kind of makes sense. You're, like, catching up on the news. Is there a spike in any particular episode? Like, is it Monday? No, yeah. Like, a Monday episode will boom on like a Friday. I'm like, I just, I don't get it. I mean, YouTube is much more like regular, you know, like after 48 hours or so,

like most of the people who've watched something are going to watch it. There are a few evergreen topics. But yeah, these podcast listeners, man, I've been trying to understand these people for four years. I'll never get it, but it's okay. That's super interesting. Yeah, we love you anyway. All right, So if you're listening to this on Friday. Yeah, four days from now. If you're listening to this four or five days from now, go ahead and follow your instructions. All right, let's get to the tariffs. So massive sell-off in the stock market yesterday. Not one

particular thing that seems to have set things off, but just still real signs of danger. Here's CNBC right around the close. Let's take a listen. Look at the markets, which are very unwelcome on this Monday afternoon. The Dow is down 1270 points right now. So we're at session lows. And if we close here, it will be the 11th thousand point drop in the Dow's history. And it's the fourth this month. Now, the S&P broad market, here's what you need to know. Down 3% and down 16% from the 52-week high. We're about 200 points above the intraday low of 49.10 on April 8th. Keep these in mind as people look for a retest. And is that an entry point? The Nasdaq is the worst of the major averages,

led lower by Nvidia and Tesla. Tesla down 7% ahead of its earnings tomorrow. And of course, check the yield on the 10-year because unlike many most previous stock sell-offs, where you at least get some cushion here, nope, not getting it today, 440. This time, treasuries are being sold as investors sell stocks as well. Dollars down, yields are higher. Yeah, and actually, the yield has spiked even more since then. We're going to get to that in a little bit. But let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. The Dow is currently headed for the worst April since 1932, as investors are sending no confidence signals, quote, few think the administration's negotiation with trade partners will yield results soon enough to ease the strain. And Emily, that really seems to be a big thing that was donned on the

market yesterday. And a lot of these investors is the fact that the Japanese talks went so badly and that the Japanese prime minister and their team left Washington with no deal. And then honestly, the worst signal was not just them leaving. It was the Japanese prime minister going to parliament and declaring we will not concede to all of the demands of the United States. They are actively countersignaling the Trump administration at home and, by the way, to great popularity, actually. The Japanese people, not very happy about the way that they have been treated throughout this process. There's been ongoing talks there with China and with South Korea, something Trump historically has made

three countries which absolutely hate each other's guts to at least move in some solid direction as a result of the tariffs. And so I think as this begins to dawn on the investors and on the market, they're seeing that Japan, which was supposed to be the check mark, like that was supposed to be the easiest one to be done. And they're like, holy, we have 70 more of these trade deals that are supposed to happen in 90 days. They're like, this is just not going to happen. Like, this is not reality. And then no signal yet from the Trump administration around any sort of cave. The more that starts to set in, I mean, you know, everybody celebrated that stock market

bump after the 90-day pause. We are just a few, maybe 2%, 3% or something like that away from being right back to where we started even before the 90-day pause where they initially wanted. The bonds, obviously, we'll get to in a little bit. But this is not a good sign. Yeah, I mean, this is maybe the worst sign because- I would say it's the worst sign. There's a counterfactual here where Trump actually is signing and inking all of these really good deals. And that sounds a little bit ridiculous, but it's possible, right, that he could be coming away from this with actually some significant progress in these negotiations with Japan, with places like Vietnam.

It's entirely within the realm of possibility, but it's also the predicate for his entire strategy. His strategy hinges on being able to seal these deals, to seal them quickly, and to get good ones. And again, I think it's, you know, more likely than not, it's always been more likely than not, that wouldn't happen. But it was always a possibility. It was always a possibility. What's interesting, too, is Charles Gasparino over at Fox Business just said today, quote, about 10 days ago, Scott Besson was telling Wall Street executives that he was making progress cutting trade deals with India, Japan, South Korea, and Australia, some of the largest trading partners, quote, then nothing happened and the markets tanked. So there's been a combination of a couple of factors. It's not only the lack of trade deals, it's also been

Trump's escalating attacks on the Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. And look, I mean, I don't think Trump is empirically incorrect that we do need a rate cut, but it's really more about the signal that he himself would take like some of unitary executive power over the central bank, which would mean that there would be an escalating fight and most importantly, uncertainty. So it's not the fact that investors don't want a rate cut. They would be absolutely happy to do so. As we've already seen, the European Central Bank has cut rates. There's been numerous other countries that have done so as well. The dollar right now, by the way, is a disaster.

The dollar is down to, I believe, almost every currency except for the Turkish lira. All-time highs, or not all-time highs, but near all-time highs with the euro, the Japanese yen, and a few other currencies, which traditionally actually were quite down. This is very difficult because even without tariffs, that means that these foreign goods are going to be more expensive for United States investors and importers that are able to afford this. That is not to even mention the other stuff that's happening right now in the markets. Let's put A2, please, up on the screen because this really actually underscores a lot of what I'm talking about here about the dollar weakness. Quote, Trump trade offensive threatens America's financial primacy. And the rising volatility in the dollar weakness is raising

fears for a financial realignment away from U.S. shores. And so this is the big fear right now, but the move away from the United States dollar as a reserve currency. Traditionally, as they were talking about on CNBC, you see bond yields start to go down, which obviously has major pressure in terms of interest rates, the Federal Reserve. But we don't see that. And so really what we're seeing is both a fleeing from U.S. markets and from the U.S. dollar. And so when you have massive uncertainty on those two things, as well as this massive pressure in the bond markets, you basically have financial uncertainty and pressure at all levels, at the consumer level, at the equities level, at the bond level, and now at a currency level.

In fact, I was just reading today that one of the largest foreign exchange of traders, like of currencies, has been margin called and has to basically halt like all trading. And so there's, you know, I mean, look, I'm not shedding tears here for Forex traders. It's like, oh, boo-hoo. But it's a signal, obviously, that the uncertainty and the like basically shock to the overall dollar is causing fundamental questions to be asked across the world. And I think it always just returns to why. It's like, if that's a result of a war, if that's a result of, you know, outside pressure, if that's a result of a hyper-intentional policy for de-dollarization across the world to make U.S. goods more competitive for genuinely good trade deals,

a lot of people would be fine with that. But the point is that within this vacuum of chaos where there seems to be no policy agenda, everything is basically at the whims of whether Peter Navarro is in the right building in the White House complex or not. That's when everybody is just like, yeah, I'm done. You know, I'm either hoarding cash if you're lucky enough to have some, taking out debt, or if you're a company, I'm buying nothing for the next 90 days. And, you know, the freight drop that's coming from China, it just still has not set in for people because you're not ready for like the price increase at Costco. You're not ready to go there and to see stuff that you normally would that's just not on the shelf. It takes a couple of months to see that happen. I mean, don't forget, the peak of inflation in the COVID era

was 2022. Even though 2021 was marked by all of those increases, it was really after the invasion of Russia, where we saw massive shock to the financial system, massive shock to the energy market, and basically a year of unchecked inflation that the government allowed to basically just happen, where all of those things culminated where people were like, I am done with Joe Biden. And I'm really done with the overall US economy. And they really never forgave him for that. And I think that they're really on track. You know, you know this as well as I do. But a lot of people in the White House right now specifically are looking back to 1981. And they say Ronald Reagan weathered a temporary recession. The short term pain paid off for him. He was able to, you know, muster the he was able to mobilize voters and have a very successful return to the presidency.

This is very different from that in a couple of different ways. But just one important way that you alluded to. It's not about price. This is not just about price increases. This is about the availability of goods. This is about scarcity. This is about things changing. This is about the shelves changing, not just the prices going up. And I think to your point, not only is that not sunk in for consumers, I don't think that that has sunk in for the administration. And the uncertainty as leverage was always, again, if this deal were to, if this entire strategy were to play out successfully, that had to be very temporary. Because it was good leverage. Yeah. But let's talk about the 1981 recession, because that's a very important point. But

why did Reagan get forgiven for the 1981 recession? Because it was a hangover of Volcker monetary policy. And thus people forgave Reagan because they didn't think it was his fault. And also Reagan was a really good politician at the height of his – literally probably at the height of his rhetorical powers in 1981 where he's like, oh, you know, the happy optimism, the jelly beans and all that. And he's like, look, we're going to get through this together. He was an excellent communicator. And he was actually able to use that recession to eventually push a lot of major legislation. Now, we can debate the effects and all of that. But that was a hyper-competent, in my opinion, team, regardless of whether you think that what they did was good or not. But most importantly, they were able to blame Carter and Volcker for much of what transpired from 81 and in 82.

The Trump administration does not have that luxury. Already America is like, Biden, who? They're like, who is that? I don't even know what you're talking about. They're also asking the public to significantly renegotiate its relationship with consumer goods. It's not just about prices. I would say beyond consumer goods, I would say they're asking them to renegotiate like the very terms of which they understood their economic life. And like that is – again, you don't – America, if we look back, like they're really only going to tolerate that in a time of war.

Like – and even then, people are going to get pissed. Which is also where Reagan was successful. Yeah, that's true. Because of the Cold War. Because we had the Cold War. Very good point. You know, I was reading, I think it was during World War II, there was like a national speed limit of like 35 miles per hour to conserve gas. Disgusting. People hated it.

Disgusting. They hated it. But they were able to tolerate it because they're like, okay, we're in the middle of a war. But basically, like the moment that I think the Japanese surrendered, they're like, yeah, we're driving 50 miles an hour now, okay? Like, the shit's over. Like, where's my goods? I need some serious return for four years of lack of food and of driving super slow, even though we didn't even have any highways or anything back in that time.

So, you know, America's always kind of been that way. You're full of fun facts, Jogger. Yeah, it's always fun times, you know, over here. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie.

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You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's go to the next one, shall we? This is about the bond market. So to resurrect the Joe Weisenthal term, the bond market is the real deep state. A3, please. And what you're watching there is that the long-term bond yields are absolutely blowing out right now.

And so, look, obviously these things are variable, but as of this morning, we saw a 4.9 yield on bonds, which is that this means that debt servicing, interest rates, and all of that are going to be more expensive for the government. It also means that there is a either sell-off or lack of demand for the United States dollar and for our bond, the very credibility of the United States financial system and of the United States. Like, I don't even really know how to describe it because it is so consequential. Remember, it's the bond market that took down Liz Truss as the prime minister. But it's important just to remember that when you see that happening, it is a direct contradiction of the stated goal of the Trump administration. Because one of the ways that Secretary Besant was giving people a lot of cope is he was like, yeah, the equities markets, they go up, they go down, etc. But the bond market, if we're able to do that, because traditionally that's usually what happens during a downturn, well, that will be overall more beneficial to U.S. consumers, to our financial system, for the U.S. Treasury. But instead, they've had the exact opposite, which definitely indicates foreign

basically fleeing of the dollar and of lack of confidence in overall U.S. markets. So that's what a lot of us are looking at. Again, uncertainty. And I think fluctuations we see yesterday were because of the, I mean, I would argue that a lot of it was a reaction to the tripling down of the attacks on Powell. Just because it creates uncertainty. Of course. I mean, and that's – I was talking with some people yesterday. I go, why – yes, because, you know, we saw like a three-something percent drop in the S&P 500.

And there was – I mean, by the way, that's the funny thing somebody said. They were like, we're so desensitized that a single 3% drop is like, eh, whatever. I'm like, no, that's actually a lot. If you look over the, you know, if you look over the traditional time horizon, like this amount of complete, like up and down, you know, in a single day without any market react, without like an announcement of bad earnings or a major policy announcement. And everybody's kind of just collectively like, hmm, this doesn't seem to be going that well. That's actually a really bad sign because it means that the slide can just continue. Keep in mind, we're recording this earlier in the morning, so let me take a look at the futures. Yeah, S&P is up by like 0.7%. Great. It was like,

you know, still down, obviously, from where we were whenever we began, even on Monday. And actually, you know, Joe Weisenthal, again, flagged something which I thought was absolutely harrowing for the private markets. Let's go ahead and put A4 up there on the screen. He says, quote, Blackstone is now down 40% from its November highs and is now right back at its post-Liberation Day lows. Remember, this is probably the best-run manager of private assets in the world. So just consider how your run of the mill private equity or VC shop is looking right now.

You know why I found that so important is I'll never forget. So the very first person I ever spoke to who told me that there was going to be major economic problems was actually David Sachs. And it was an interview. I think I did it with him back in early 2022, before even the invasion of Ukraine. And I remember him telling me, he goes, you know, VC valuations are down massively. And because this is the bleeding edge of the financial system, when we're watching like lack of liquidity, and overall, just like lack, you know, lack of investment and VC valuations, all that stuff start to go down. That's usually an indication where the

private markets are for where the public markets will head soon. And I would say maybe within three or four months, everything that he said ended up correct. And I was like, wow. So that gave me a lot of respect for some of the insight of where these private market entities can tell us about not only valuations, but also of what future behavior will look like. So if you're Blackstone, you're down 40%, you have to start selling stuff like soon. You know, you're getting pretty close where if you're going to half your value from November, like you're going to have some serious

pressure from your investors. And these people, unfortunately, again, I don't want it to be this way. They control a lot of stuff. And so if they offload, you know, single family houses that could have a major impact that they offload, you knowload – I mean they control so many major companies or stakes in companies. Or, and this is the worst possible outcome, what do these private equity goons always do whenever there is a downturn? They fire people. Cocaine. Yeah. Well, yeah, that too.

Actually, no, they're not doing cocaine because they can't afford it anymore. That's right. No. So they're – what's legal cocaine now these days? I don't know. Celsius. They're drinking tons of Celsius. But the problem that we see for them is when they have to offload and then they come in and they just gut these companies. And again, you see tiny little signs of this. Southwest getting rid of seating, right? Jacking up its rates, trying to add first class. You see already, you know, the airlines are always a classic example

of recession indicators. We're going to see many other businesses, which Blackstone, again, unfortunately, does control, along with a lot of KKR, all of these major shops. They run massive businesses that employ millions of people across America, or they own stakes in them. And as investors, they're going to put pressure on them to probably reduce head counts so that they can increase their overall share price. So I actually thought that that was one of the more important ones. And also, you know, the indication there on venture capital and on private equity. Like that, when that stuff starts to dry up, again, we saw major problems in our markets in 2022 and in 2023.

Well, I just want to say before we move on, that underscores, I mean, that's why I think, again, this question of certainty and strategy, and you've been making this point all along. But like there was, to your point about David Sachs having these insights literally years ago, there's a pretty optimistic. I think I was more optimistic than you when Liberation Day was being teased and rolled out because this is actually based on some very accurate and unpopular, I think, understandings of the United States economy. Sure. And so there was a way that with a strategy, with coherence, and with a sense of purpose and certainty, everyone looks like they're walking in step. This would have actually done something pretty interesting. They definitely would have always been short-term pain. Well, let me clarify. I was never not optimistic.

I had a baseline level of optimism until that chart came out. Yeah, yeah. And when I saw that chart, I was like, that's it. I knew I will never forget it. And I was like, holy shit. Looking at that, seeing what the 50% whatever tariff on Vietnam, I was like, yeah, this is over. And I mean, and that's, and then learning about- But they still could have recovered from that, right? I think they could have. They could

have easily come out the next day and said, we talked to Vietnam overnight and came, but they- I think for me, it was that, you you know within hours we learned the way that the trade that the actual calculation happened and then when you learn that that level of care went into the stewardship of the global economy that's when i was like sell you know it's like the biggest sell signal i've ever seen i was like nothing that these people do really they may stumble into something good but intentionality or planning behind it, no, no, no, no. And I think that's really, I mean, that's why the market's tanked as well. You know, a 10% universal tariff, again, I mean, I don't think it's a terrible policy. We could talk about it all day long. It's one of those where if it had happened, there definitely would have been, obviously, a market correction

of some kind. But I genuinely don't believe it would have been similar to today, where we have wild swings of up and down. And I can tell you this, 10% is still, even if you think that that's crazy, that 10% is still much more certain than the bullshit that we're dealing with right now. Yeah, and that's the problem where they face. We're watching this all play out. And I mean, really the signal to me, it's not just about China, which we're about to talk about a lot and the level of care that they're able to put into the stewardship of their economy. It's watching the other countries have to deal with this, the US allies, the people that we genuinely do need, like the Japanese, the South Koreans, the Vietnamese, and to watch Xi Jinping get heralded on the streets of Vietnam. you know, again, a country which is basically,

you know, in a conflict with China over the South China Sea, which doesn't necessarily like, you know, they have complicated relations with them and complicated relations with us, but broadly a population of people which love the United States, even though we destroyed their entire country. It's kind of amazing, actually. And then to see them immediately host Xi and Xi going to Vietnam and then giving a speech about aligning with China and then watching same in Singapore and many of these other countries, which these are very important to the future of the globe because 50 percent of global GDP will be there just in five years. And they feel deeply abandoned. I mean, from the all the stories coming from the Japanese are insane. They show up here in Washington in good faith, and they're like, so, what do you want?

And they're like, well, what are you offering? They're like, but we literally don't know what you want. And, you know, not just even culturally for them, they're like, this is a clown show. You know, in Japan, you know, in their business culture and all that, when we just think about respect and certainty and consensus and who to trust, like, they have very well and clear defined avenues through which decisions are made. They, along with us, have no idea if they can even trust Secretary Besson or if they can trust this person or the U.S. Trade Representative. And then they watch the U.S. Trade Representative learn about the 90-day pause when he's giving a testimony before Congress. So if that guy's sitting across from me, I go, you don't know anything.

I'm not talking to you. I just want to talk to Trump. And then Trump makes him wear a MAGA hat that he signs in the Oval Office and put it on for photo opportunities. Yeah, I don't know. I feel for them. I really do. And it's not a joke, right? Because it's the future of their economy.

It's the future of our economy. I was going to say that it changes their own political calculations. Which is already happening. Yeah, there's a decent argument being made by Eric Kaufman, Matt Cotton, and others that what's happening is actually the undermining of global populism, which Donald Trump has tried to fuel, has actually sought to build up. And because people are now responsive to their own economic needs at home, Canada is a really good example of this. With Polyev, you have to come out swinging against Trump. And so it

completely changes the incentive structure. That's a great point. I hadn't thought about that, but it's exactly right, where you're actually empowering more establishment forces in the European Union, in Japan, in, I mean, even Javier Millet is countersignaling Trump on the tariffs. Like, you know, you've lost basically everybody. Right. No, I mean, this guy is like, what, probably the most MAGA that there is in Latin America. All right. Last part here. This is just, this is too much. At the very same time this is all happening for us, Secretary Besson, for some reason that will remain completely unknown to me, decided to put out a lecture on his Twitter account of financial literacy and savings for Americans. Let's take a listen. Everyone should care about financial literacy,

whether you are a student with a summer job or a part-time job during school, whether you're in college, whether you're starting your career, or whether you are at the end of your career. Making good financial choices creates economic security. And look, it's fun. You learn about the markets. You learn how to properly allocate resources. And there's a big payoff over the long term for something you can do early in your career. I couldn't believe that. The tone deafness of this near billionaire secretary of the treasury at a time

of financial stress, trying to tell people about savings and financial literacy. It's like, why don't we leave that to Dave Ramsey? Okay. It's like, maybe. That's your real beef with it. Yeah. They should have just had Dave. Yeah. They should have just had Dave come in and get, listen, at least guys consistent. He's saying that all the time. Dave Ramsey's the best. Yeah. I mean, look, you know, Dave is the goat as, as, as longtime watchers know, at least from my perspective. But I just thought it was unbelievable, like, to put that out. And it's just this lecturing and this hectoring about savings. It's like, listen, he's not wrong about the benefit of saving

or learning financial literacy or any of that. And I totally support it. But now is not the time to be putting out these types of public messages, basically trying to signal like everything is for you, right? Like you need to learn public markets. Meanwhile, I'm one of the most powerful, you know, individuals in all of American finance. And I'm like screwing with the bond markets and all the nuking your 401k or your 529 plan that's a good point so best is like i can nuke your 401k with a single word yes meanwhile you better get your financial uh literacy in

shape which is because like it's not wrong he is right because our market is so convoluted and ridiculous and built on this house of cards then then yes, you should absolutely be very, you should basically go full Ted Kaczynski and build a cabin in the woods because they can tank whatever you save for decades with a word. Bingo. But rather than fixing that structure, you should just hold the gold.

In the words of Dave, debt is dumb and cash is king. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right.

It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father?

Well, Sam, luckily, it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us.

Now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead. But I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair. Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous. But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret, even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process.

So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret? Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be.

These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me

hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get over to the Chinese segment here. This is actually really interesting and does give us some indications about some thinking inside the Chinese Politburo. Let's put this up there on the screen. So there were two kind of theories of the way that China would react to the Trump trade war. One was after the 90-day pause, the Trump administration said that China has shown itself to be a bad actor. They said that their goal is to use the 90-day pause to negotiate reciprocal trade agreements with other countries to isolate the Chinese. And they specifically instructed the Chinese not to retaliate. Instead, what immediately happened?

The Chinese were like, we'll match you dollar for dollar for every tariff. We'll cap it around 80% or whatever. We're going to stay there even though that 80% is basically a secession of trade between our two countries. And in the interim, instead of maintaining any trade negotiation, there's been no high-level talks currently beyond anything routine. The Chinese are instead actually going around the world and instructing their foreign ministry to tell countries, do not team up with the United States against us, or you will suffer the consequences. So this actually was a statement from the Chinese Ministry of Commerce just yesterday, quote, responding to foreign media reports that Trump administration was trying to pressure other countries on their trade with China.

They said appeasement will not bring peace. Compromise will not earn respect. Seeking so-called exemptions by harming the interests of others for one's own selfish and short-sighted gains is like negotiating with a tiger for its skin. In the end, it will only lead to a lose-lose situation. China firmly opposes any party reaching a deal at the expense of China's interests. It said, adding that China would resolutely take countermeasures against any country which decided to do so. So what we are basically watching then is this like tête-à-tête where the Chinese are very willing to exert their own economic might, let's say over Japan, South Korea, and other countries, do it in a much more targeted and intelligent way. I mean,

already watching the way that they have worked on the United States, it's honestly amazing. Like, you just have to respect competence. They're like, okay, where do we have the single most leverage? Consumer electronics, so rare earth minerals, semiconductors, and on consumer goods broadly. So what are we going to do? We're going to prop up our consumer manufacturers to make sure that they remain whole. We're going to pump money into all of our companies that we control. We're going to rally the entire population around our flag because it's an externally declared trade war. At the very same time, we will use maximum pain leverage on any country which decides to go behind the back of the Chinese state ministry. And we're watching countries that have to choose.

So Vietnam, for example, Vietnam immediately caved to the Trump administration. They're like, fine, no tariffs, nothing. Don't worry about it. We still hit them with the tariff. What are they supposed to think? What are they supposed to do? Nobody knows. Well, our strategy was based on this idea that we had so much leverage that people would just come to us. And we saw that explicitly expressed by members of the Trump administration. They articulated that that was basically their belief. People will come to us because we have so much leverage. Then like Japan, they can tell us what they're thinking and we'll let them know if it's up or down, good or bad, like the gladiator thumb move. But China, on the other hand,

I think has handled this, and it pains me to say, with cohesion and strategy. And that's sort of the mirror image of the same noise. So rather than them saying, because we have so much leverage, we're going to let the chips fall where they may, which is basically our strategy. And again, it's true. We do have a lot of leverage. And the uncertainty, to some extent, at first at least, was, I think, a sort of clever use of the leverage. But China approached it with the exact opposite strategy, which is we're going to be extremely strategic and extremely cohesive in our approach to these different countries. And what they've seen, whether it's

with Greenland or the EU or your point about Asia, it's just obviously working. And even watching some of the things that they're doing right now. So, for example, I previously talked about the Joe Weisenthal piece on private equity. Well, let's go and put A7, please, up on the screen. Don't forget that the Chinese are major investors in U.S. markets. Now, do I think that that should have been the case? No, but, you know, it is the case. They have like 20% of our debt. Yeah. And so, quote, China is now pulling back from U.S. private equity investments. Industry executives report a change of approach as Beijing is bearing the brunt of Trump's tariff.

So Chinese state-backed funds are, quote, cutting off all new investment in U.S. private equity in the latest salvo against Trump. State-backed funds have been pulling back from investing in U.S. private capital firms in recent weeks. The moves come for pressure from the Chinese government. Some of the Chinese funds are also seeking to be excluded from private equity investments in any U.S.-based company. Trump has imposed tariffs, obviously, of 145 percent on Chinese exports. Multiple buyout executives said that Chinese investors have changed their approach

since the very beginning of the trade war, and they will make no new commitments to U.S. firms. China's investment corporation, which is among the state-backed firms that is pulling back, said that they were ceasing all investment. Quote, other Chinese funds have retreated. And this is the Chinese sovereign wealth fund, don't forget, which has massive shares of Blackstone, of TPG, and of Carlyle Group, which means that, look, this is where the difficulty of stating this is that on the one hand, yeah, it's good. We don't really want these people to be investing in all of our private companies. Why should they have so much leverage? Private equity firms and all these, clearly they've been a tool of the Chinese ministry and all of them for years. But, you know, if there's no commiserate, like, if there's no, you know, like change from the U.S. in terms of policy to make sure that all that capital that

no longer coming to our markets doesn't cause immense pain, then what do you think that the net effect of all of this is going to be? Right. And this is, again, like what we were talking about earlier with the David Sachs observation back in 2022 when you interviewed him. I mean, there's this entire strategy is based on, I think, really accurate and, again, unpopular understandings of the United States economy, the structural flaws in the U.S. economy. And part of that is because so much of Wall Street was beholden to China and intentionally set themselves up that way. And the government sort of went along with it. I think American elites

set the country up on this path. So it was always going to be painful to disentangle it. And so it's sort of for the average American, a damned if you do, damned if you don't, right? They're in this, they're caught in this catch-22 where elites set up a system where at one point it was going to come to a head with China. And because of that, you either have to stay completely entangled with China and completely beholden to China or disentangle a bit from China. It's pain for the consumer either way. And elites will probably still be fine. They'll probably lose a little bit, but they'll still be fine. Or maybe some of them will make lots of money. Who knows? But it's such a shitty situation for the average consumer.

And it's not even being, now that the disentangling is happening from people who are right that there needed to be a disentangling, the normal person is just getting completely screwed. Yeah, and even right now, this just came across my radar. Maybe actually we can put it in post. I'll just go ahead and read from some of it. But Cambodia is, you know, I wouldn't say it's like a vital U.S. ally, but we actually do produce a decent amount of textiles in Cambodia. Literally just now, I mean, across the wire, Trump's tariffs, quote, risk pushing Cambodia further into China's embrace. Quote, a massive canal highlights Beijing's now deep investment in Cambodia, just as the U.S. is pulling back. So at the same time that Cambodia is getting hit with tariffs.

And by the way, again, Vietnam and Cambodia were the destination for many textile manufacturers who were told in 2018 to get out of China. Did the Chinese take advantage of this and use it as transshipping for control? Yes. Let's be very clear. Yes. Malfeasance absolutely across the board. But those governments are still a lot more friendly to the United States of America than the Chinese. And while they are, quote, controlled or they have some investment from China,

it's not the same thing as literally being controlled by the Chinese directly like they were previously. Well, at the very same time that we're hitting them with tariffs, what are they doing? The Chinese are like, here, here's $1.2 billion. Right? Here's a brand new canal that we'll go ahead and we'll build you. Basically trying to fill in the space from the United States. So anyway, just the last thing I want to say. The OG canal builders, too. Yeah, that's true. The OG canal builders. That's a good point. Before we run, Sagar, quick take on jd in india um i don't really have

a take i mean to be honest like look first of all he's the for he's the only um he's just the vice president which is like i don't want to be too denigrated no you're right it's true like you know he doesn't speak for the administration in the same way and there was just mostly like platitudes about working with india and the. Apparently, they're going to talk about tariffs. But the Indians drive, and this will not surprise anyone, a very hard bargain. This is one of the most protectionist global economy or large economies in the world. It's actually difficult for people to understand. They like take protection.

They invented protectionism. They take it to a whole other level. And for them, they're not going to be reducing a lot of non-tariff barriers. The Indians are much smarter than us in some respects because what they do is they'll do things which they know will cost them foreign direct investment. They just don't care. They're like, fine, as long as we control and have a total say over our government and our technology. It's literally what Trump wants. We'll just do it.

Yeah, no, but guess what? They have a population which is okay with that, and they at least have a financial system right now, which because this is kind of baked in from the very beginning, is not going to cause as much turmoil. I mean, the TikTok thing in India is a perfect example. They were like, it's not a discussion.

It's getting banned. Just ban it. And nobody really cared. They use alternatives now. I think YouTube shorts is big in the country. The idea that any Chinese major global manufacturer or something is going to have as much of a say over their affairs, they're like, it will never happen. Our own industrialists will run it. Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of corruption and stuff like that behind it. But they have a much more autarkic model than basically any other major economy

in the world. And they have the population to be able to sustain it. So look, yeah, is it nice? Sure, it's great that JD and all that is over there. Do I think that Modi is going to immediately come out and say, sure, we're going to lower all these non-terrorists? No, it will never happen. That's like foundational to their entire country and to their ethos economically. They will welcome some foreign investment, but like the Chinese, they demand control. Remember, this is a country that banned Bitcoin and crypto because they want control over their own financial system. Try doing business in India. It's not so easy if you're a U.S. investor. And that's why a lot of them don't do it. But like I said, the Indians

just don't care. They have enough of a population, consumer market. They're not as wealthy. But broadly, you know, they see it as their fate to control and to really have a say over the industries in their country. I mean, you know, who can't help but respect that? So the speech, I was looking at it today. Yeah, it's good. But I mean, do I think it will usher in like a big change in U.S. relations? Like, not really. That's, are U.S. and India relations? I don't think so, at least right now. Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left.

In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your Not the Father Week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. Now I find out he's

trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair. Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous. But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret, even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret? Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships.

It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high.

And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At the same time, Emily, you're now gonna take a look at Pete Hegseth,

where again, you know, there is a meltdown happening inside of the building. We've had a full-scale purge of many of Hegseth's top advisors. There's now some floating out reports that maybe the White House is looking to replace some of the, so Pete Hegseth and some of the people around him,

which would be an extraordinary move. Hegseth is trying to save his job. He's basically putting all the blame for the purge on the people who were fired themselves, even though many of them are literally some of the most loyal people who have been around him for years. So he was asked about it yesterday at the White House at the Easter egg roll. Let's take a listen. What do you want to say, sir, about the Signal Chat controversy? You know, what a big surprise that a bunch of, a few leakers get fired and suddenly a bunch of hit pieces come out from the same media that peddled the Russia hoax.

Won't give back their Pulitzers. They got Pulitzers for a bunch of lies. Pulitzers for a bunch of lies. And on hoaxes. Time and time and time again. And as they peddle those lies, no one ever calls them on it. See, this is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees,

and then they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations. Not going to work with me, because we're changing the Defense Department, putting the Pentagon back in the hands of warfighters, and anonymous smears from disgruntled former employees on old news, doesn't matter. So I'm happy to be here at the Easter Egg Roll with my dad and my kids, because, you know, this is what we're doing it for. These kids right here. This is why we're fighting the fake news media. This is why we're fighting slash and burn Democrats. This is why we're fighting hoaxsters. Hoaxsters.

This group, no, no, no, this group right here, full of hoaxsters that peddle anonymous sources from leakers with axes to grind, and then you put it all together as if it's some news story. And when we know it, we know exactly what it is. So I'm really proud of what we're doing for the president, fighting hard across the board, and I'm going go roll some easter eggs with my kids thank you very much that's that's rough that man needs to be on broadway yeah the level of performance was he's like i'm gonna go roll some easter eggs i don't know that sounds like an off-broadway performance to me um yeah wow there's a lot going on there. So yeah, first of all, he's talking there as if it's a hoax, whether he shared

this information in a group chat with his wife or not. I mean, it's not a hoax. It's just a reality. It's a fact. It's something also that you previously had said, oh, I never shared any classified information, right? You know, once upon a time, Signalgate was actually a story. But, you know, beyond that, what I find extraordinary about this is how he is just guns blazing against, again, top aides to him in the Defense Department who were the most loyal to Pete Hegseth, who worked for him probably for over a decade now at this point. His friends. Like, like actually his friends. Like his actual close friends. And he fires these people on a dime.

Now, people are saying that, oh, then he must have caught them leaking or any of that. Look, there's no evidence to support that from the department itself. And also, even if you're gonna fire somebody based on a suspicion, you better have some damn good suspicion or they could sue you for wrongful termination.

All of the indication right now from the statement of those three, never polygraphed, never presented with any reason or story for why they were fired, unceremoniously marched out of the building. I think Hegseth is in some bunker mentality. Clearly he believes that he's just massively under attack, taking it out on some of the people most loyal to him. His own chief of staff, who I guess is

leaving but is technically still gonna keep working for him, is a person he had never even met before, before all of this, who was, like, installed, nobody even really knows by whom. Apparently he's been causing a lot of drama in the office around all that. But my point is just, like, this is not how the Defense Department can be run.

Like, again, we're talking about the tariffs. How can the entire world, you know, look to the stewardship of the largest military force in the history of mankind and be like, yeah, this is exactly the way that this is all supposed to be happening right now? So, I mean, it's just chaos. Well, it's against the backdrop of tensions with Iran mounting. And so the question then becomes whether that had anything to do with Hegseth, his sort of professional divorce from people who have been loyal be proven wrong by Donald Trump at any moment of the day, but I still don't really think Hegseth is actually going to leave. I think, you know, Mike Waltz was able to keep his job after we heard report after report that his departure was imminent. And that never happened. And he's less important to the administration than Pete Hegseth is, frankly. He's the head of the Pentagon, even though he, you know, is acting very heavily in the spokesperson role. He's the head of the Pentagon, even though he, you know, is acting very heavily in the spokesperson role, he's the head of the Pentagon.

So, yeah, I mean, at the same time, if his relationships with people who, for example, Donald Trump Jr. is close with Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson just had Dan Caldwell, we're going to talk about this later in the show, on his program for basically an emergency podcast to go over what the hell is happening at the Pentagon and asked Dan, did you leak, point blank, and Dan said no. So does that cause tensions that become a legitimate problem for Pete Hagseth as opposed to like a fake media story? That's why you saw him, I think, leaning very heavily into the idea that this was a fake media story when he was talking to reporters at the Easter Egg Roll yesterday. So that's messaging to Donald Trump, right? That's going straight to the president and signaling to him.

Pete Hegseth knows this. He was on Fox and Friends forever. He knows how to communicate through the TV with Donald Trump. And that's what he was trying to say. Mr. President, this is fake news. Right. And we actually got even more from Hegseth where, again, he's just going guns blazing against his own staff, people who work for him, who are loyal to him, basically calling them liars. Let's take a listen. Over the last few days, your senior advisor, Dan Caldwell, Darren Selnick,

Colin Carroll, who is your chief of staff, deputy secretary of defense. The other one, Darren, is now former deputy chief of staff will let go. Did you let them go? Right. It was a result of an investigation ongoing at the Pentagon where we identified there was sufficient evidence potentially. Again, there's an investigation ongoing that will have to complete itself. Sufficient evidence to believe that they or others near them were party to leaking. And then I have a statutory responsibility, Brian, if I believe that's the case, to ultimately ensure they no longer have access to that and that the investigation commences. There are a lot of ways to communicate in this building. I do it every day. I was just doing it this morning. Official channels by which we communicate

classified information. If you want to do it and do it the right way, you should. If we think you are leaking to the press, that's a very real problem. We take that very seriously at the Pentagon. I'm here to do one job, one job for the president and the American people. Secure the country. America first. Peace through strength. I don't have time for leakers. I don't have time for the hoax press that peddles old stories from disgruntled employees. We should be talking about the decimation of the Houthis, how we're pushing back the Chinese, how we have a new defense area at the southern border. Instead, disgruntled former employees are peddling things to try to save their ass. And ultimately, that's not going to work. I mean, again, I mean, it's

unhinged, to be honest, the way that he's reacting to this. But clearly there is some stuff going on inside of the White House. Right now, President Trump is standing behind Pete Hegseth, even though apparently he's not very happy about the latest signal story. Here was Caroline Leavitt, the press secretary, talking about the secretary. The president stands strongly behind Secretary Hegseth, who is doing a phenomenal job leading the Pentagon. And this is what happens when the entire Pentagon is working against you and working against the monumental change that you are trying to implement. Secretary Hegseth was nominated for this position because he is standing up for the warfighter, the men and women

in uniform who are putting their lives on the line to protect our country and our homeland. And unfortunately, there have been people at that building who don't like the change the secretary is trying to bring. So they are leaking and they are lying to the mainstream media. We've seen this game played before. The secretary is doing a tremendous job and the president stands strongly behind him. President stands strongly behind him. And yet at the very same time, let's go ahead and put B3, please, up on the screen. Emily, what do you make of this from NPR? They're really the only story to report it so far. So, you know, you could take it only so far. The White House is looking to replace Pete Hegseth as the defense secretary. They don't have

a ton of detail. It just says that there's something, the process of looking for a new leader at the Pentagon to replace him if they need to. The quote source said that Hegseth used signal messaging app on his personal smartphone. That's apparently what kind of set Trump off. But of course, Hegseth and the White House saying that that's completely fake news and that they're not trying to replace him. I'm just not so sure because when you see a complete collapse of your entire front office, you also find yourself mired in this like controversy about not only sharing information, but look, I mean, just look at the way that he is speaking here

publicly. Like this is not somebody who feels secure, right? He feels as if you have to go on the offense survivability, the people around him, obviously he doesn't even have any real advisors or any of that point who he could probably trust. He seems to be a man on an island. That's a good point. And it's just a weird thing to watch because not only is this the secretary of defense, but we're watching this at the height of tensions with Iran. And a lot of these people who were just fired are people who I think are being framed and who were trying at, to push the administration and develop options and policy, which would not lead to a direct confrontation. And things genuinely seem to be sizzling to a boiling point where the pro-Iran war lobby, again, is more frothing at the mouth

than I probably have ever seen them. I talked yesterday about Mark Levin demanding that Tulsi Gabbard fix U.S. intelligence. Like, that's crazy shit. Like, that's, again, that's Iraq-level stuff, going and doctoring intelligence reports to back up what you want so that you can bomb them. The purge here is happening. Ryan and I did our story yesterday about an Israeli ministry defense official running the damn Israel and Iran portfolio on the NSC. I mean, it's just crazy.

And Mike Waltz gets to stay, the guy who wants to push for Iran. So Hegseth, if he stays or goes, I don't even know what this guy believes, honestly, at this point, when you turn on the people around you. He was one of only three voices to speak up against a strike on Iran. Maybe that's one of three gone, right? Turns out pretty well for the Israelis. Well, and Dan, and Tucker fleshed this out in his conversation with him, but Dan is a deep skeptic of the Iran hawks. And so there actually is probably something legitimate to the, I guess, there's probably something legitimate to the argument that Pete Hagsath is under enormous pressure from people who want to go to a war with Iran, who are upset that he brought

people like Dan into the group. Remember, go back to Signalgate. Who did Pete Hegsa say should be the principal communicator brought in or the principal brought into the Signalgate chat? He sent to Mike Waltz. The Signalgate chat was created because Mike Waltz was asking all of these guys who should be the point person for your department. Pete Hegseth said Dan Caldwell. And now Dan is out. So maybe there was some funny business going on. I mean, I think there's a non-implausible theory that Pete Hegseth was getting account of what's happened and Dan coming out point blank and saying, no, I never leaked and going on Tucker Carlson's show. That doesn't sound like a guy who's being protected by a friend. It looks like someone who is genuinely feels burned by all of this. And the other thing, Donald Trump Jr., to go back to him, he posted, you remember when John Uliot got some headlines for being, for resigning? Well, Don Jr., remember, he said, this guy is not America first.

I've been hearing for years that he works his ass off to subvert my father's agenda. That ends today. He's officially exiled from our movement. Well, what does that say? He's not the only one in the Pentagon who is working to subvert, as Donald Trump puts it, my father's agenda. Quote, my father's agenda. There are other guys. He's one example.

He's a high-profile scalp. There are other guys still in the Pentagon who don't like the Dan Caldwell approach and don't want him to influence Pete Hegs' decision-making. And so, yes, they were probably doing, from the moment the administration started and Hegs has surrounded himself by guys from places like Concerned Feds, they have probably been trying to catch those guys doing something wrong or set those guys up. Nobody knows. For weeks, they've probably been trying to do that. And so, yes, I think it is likely that some of this stems from exactly that. But bad motivations don't mean that people are blameless, that people are pure and haven't done anything wrong. So those are not mutually exclusive.

Yeah, that's true. Look, I mean, is it theoretically possible you're leaking? Yeah, I guess. But I mean, you know, at the same time, like, half of you people are leakers anyway. Or that Hexeth did certain— Sure, Pete Hexeth never leaked anything, right? Or that Hexeth was, to your point, disloyal to his good friends. I mean, the pressure is going to make him do things or could make him do things that are bad.

Yeah, that's right. Whether or not he's inclined to do something actually anti-Neocon and smart when it comes to these mounting tensions with Iran, Donald Trump is resisting pressures from the Neocons so far. We'll see how that goes in his sending Steve Witkoff to continue these negotiations and the way that he's approaching it, which is freaking everybody out. I mean, it's freaking the Nikki Haley's of the world out beyond, like your point, beyond where they thought they could go. Let's put B4 up there on the screen.

So, you know, this is interesting. I rarely see this actually happen, but you have Representative Don Bacon here actually calling for Hegseth to go. He said that he has concerns about him from the get-go. Now, tell me about Bacon. I don't know much about the guy, but I didn't realize. I mean, this is a Hask person. He's a first-sitting GOP lawmaker to suggest that he should even fire Hegsath.

Clearly, he's got a little bit of an independent streak. Is this in his general MO? What's up with this? Yeah, I mean, so he's had close elections. So he won his last election 51% to 49%. Okay, so close. In Nebraska, yeah. So he's like Omaha area.

And it's basically like one of the, it's a tough race for him. Yeah. And I'm sure there's also a lot of weapons, or I shouldn't say weapons manufacturing, but I'm sure there's a lot of Pentagon business that matters to Don Bacon in Nebraska. All right, well. Lots of nuclear business in Nebraska. Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah, STRATCOM.

That's right, STRATCOM. Yeah. I always forgot about that. So they're sort of economically tethered to the military-industrial complex and in a district that is, like, a bit more urban and affluent. I never thought about this.

Yeah, that Nebraska would be so reliant on the nuclear weapons industry. It is true. It's actually true. She's obsessed with nuclear weapons. She comes out and talks about how she's obsessed with nuclear weapons. Yeah. That's because, what is it?

That's where the mountain is with the bunker and everything. I think Bush went there on 9-11. All right. Anyway, this is a whole separate podcast. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets.

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Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your Not the Father Week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This author writes, My father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. Now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. So what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair.

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You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let me hear it. the Trump administration, Pete Hegseth, his former boss, basically calling him a leaker, even though Dan literally worked for Pete Hegseth and was one of the biggest supporters of his secretary, of becoming the secretary of defense. Well, here's what Caldwell had to say, ask point blank, did you ever leak any classified information like what is being alleged from the secretary and what is behind your firing? So let's take a listen. It seems like the fastest way to derail the whole project, the Trump administration and the United States of America is a war with Iran. And that's why I've just been watching it as carefully as I can, because I feel like, again, if you hated

Donald Trump and you hated what the administration is doing on immigration, trade, anti-woke, just whatever, and you wanted to stop it, the first thing you would do is apply pressure to have the US military engage in a war with Iran. I mean, that's my perspective on it anyway. I think that and also continuing to do what we've been doing previously in Russia, Ukraine. For sure. For sure. For sure. Though it, I don't know why, I'm going to ask you all about this, but it feels like Wyckoff is helping a lot there. God bless.

He's, I mean, I've already said he's a godsend. God bless Steve Wyckoff. I couldn't agree more. People knew that you weren't fully on board with the regime change program. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I was very open about it. I was very on the record about it. And most of the time when I was saying that we shouldn't do this, it was actually in support of the president's stated preferences. The president clearly doesn't

want this. In the first term, there were people in his administration that wanted it. He clearly didn't want it. And so it was supporting people who didn't want the war. And so I was essentially- But Donald Trump had said, has said, and now his actions make perfectly clear, he would strongly prefer a diplomatic solution. Correct. I don't want to speak for the president, but it's fairly obvious that that's what he wants. Well, he said it. I mean, he said it again and he ran on it. honest. You know, basically there's so much chaos that anybody can read so much of what we like, so anybody can read any intention into what's happening. But it just seems as if the collapse of the Pentagon front office, whether it is policy motivated or not, is one where Mike

Walz gets to keep his job. The neocons in the NSC get to keep their job. Steve Witkoff is basically safe for now. You have no idea if he'll make it or not anytime, you know, in the future. Because, you know, with like with the Gaza thing, he could be sidelined or he could be sent to Moscow with Putin, you know, tomorrow. We have no idea what the progress of those talks is going to look like. And the forces within the White House and the administration who want more war with Iran are now countersignaling to protect Pete Hegseth. For example, Tom Cotton and others are some of his biggest defenders right now. So that's not a good sign. Not a good sign to me. But again, both of these things can be true, that this was driven, fueled by ideological

differences, sharp ideological differences, and you have neocons, foreign policy blob, coming hard after people like Dan. And then that pressure could have forced Hegseth to do something that probably was in response to it and not good. So I feel like both of that, I don't know. I think you're right. We genuinely don't know what's happening behind closed doors at the Pentagon right now. It sounds like Dan actually did not do anything wrong because I think you wouldn't go out aggressively in media and answer these questions point blank, talk to Tucker if that were the case and I think you know maybe Pete Hegseth fired these guys to protect himself yes

that's these things don't have to be mutually exclusive yeah um yeah look it's certainly possible I just don't know I do know of course though that with the absence of people like this, that power fills a vacuum. And so we know where that's going to happen. He was also pressed specifically on leaking. Let's take a listen to that. So I just want to be totally direct with you. Did you leak classified information against the wishes of your superiors to media outlets?

Absolutely not. Did you photograph classified material and then text pictures of that material to an NBC news reporter? Absolutely not. Did you photograph classified material and then text pictures of that material to an NBC news reporter? Absolutely not. And I have not spoken to an NBC reporter while at the Pentagon. Are you, do you know what you've been accused of? No, I don't. Sitting here right now, myself and Darren Selnick and Colin Carroll, the other two individuals that were escorted out of the Pentagon, initially placed on leave and then fired on Friday. We have not been told as of this recording, one, is there what we were being investigated for? Two, is there still an investigation? And three, was there even a real investigation? Because there's a lot of evidence that there is not a real investigation. So you could see specifically, didn't leak classified

information. And that wasn't it. People were like, oh, well, he didn't say he didn't leak at all. It's like, well, Pete Hexeth just said you leaked classified information. He said he didn't. I don't know. You know, maybe. But no polygraph test. Marks on ceremoniously out of the building. Doesn't know if there is an investigation. Don't even know if there's an investigation. It had been cleared of investigation. No result of investigation. You still just get walked out. I mean, he was talking about how up until the minute before he was told to leave the building that he had access to classified information, which is not the way that this all usually goes down.

And let's take it outside of Caldwell, those other two. I've gotten to know some people who know them, and they're saying it's preposterous that, like, Darren Miller in particular would be leaky. He's like, he didn't even want to work at the Pentagon. Darren Stelnick. Stelnick, sorry. Apparently, he didn't even want to work at the Pentagon, did so out of loyalty to Pete Hegseth, and now getting frog-marched out of the building. So, again, you can take that for what you will, but clearly, the chaos inside of all of this, it's going to have a longstanding effect. That's all I know. Yeah, and we're going to, I mean, whatever anybody thinks they know right now, we will probably find out that either it's much more nuanced or that it totally wasn't true because there's so much going on behind closed doors.

But it does sound very clearly, at the very least, it sounds like these guys got burned by a friend, not just a colleague, but a friend. That's exactly right. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily, it's your not the father week on the OK taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily, it's You're Not the Father week on the OK Storytime podcast,

so we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. He's trying to give it to his irresponsible son, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up.

They could lose their family and millions of dollars? Yep. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Have you ever thought about going voiceover?

I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable,

and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.