Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 4/7/26: Trump Journo Jail Threat Backfires, US Low On Interceptors, Tucker Turns On Trump

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Ryan and Saagar discuss Trump jail threat for journalist backfires, US critically low on interceptors, Tucker turns on Trump.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free,

and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. Donald Trump at his press conference yesterday said he is on the manhunt. Sogare and I are going to help the brother out. Let's roll Trump here. As you probably know,

we didn't talk about the first one for an hour, then somebody leaked something, which will hopefully find that leaker. We're looking very hard to find that leaker and talked about there's somebody missing. They basically said that we have one, and there's somebody missing. Well, they didn't know there was somebody missing until this leaker gave the information. So whoever it was, we think we'll be able to find it out because we're going to

go to the media company that released it and we're going to say national security, give it up, or go to jail. And we know who, and you know who we're talking about. There's some things you can't do because when they did that, all of a sudden, the entire country of Iran knew that there was a pilot that was somewhere on their land that was fighting for his life and it also made it much more difficult for the pilots and for the people going in to search for him. All of a sudden

they know that there's somebody out there they see all these planes coming in it became a much more difficult operation because a leaker leaked that we have one, we've rescued one but there's another one out there that we're trying to get. So first of all, none of that makes sense. But let's just pretend for the sake of Trump's argument

because he is, after all, the President of the United States, that what he's saying is serious and makes some sense. Again, so suspend your disbelief, your normal disbelief of this guy. All right. So according to Trump, the people who reported first that there's one pilot's been rescued, but there's another pilot out there, that they put the entire operation at risk

because it alerted the Iranians to the fact that they're alive and made it put then hundreds of American service members at risk. Let's pretend that that's true and that Trump is serious about hunting down a leaker. As patriotic Americans, Sagar and I went on the hunt. Yes. Did not take us long to find the leaker. We didn't. We found him.

In fact, you found him. You found him almost immediately. Who is he? His name is Amit Siegel. Oh. We put up this next element on the screen. Okay. And Israeli journalist flagged for me almost immediately.

You're like, hey, guess what? His name's Amit. He's a famous Israeli journalist. He's known for his direct proximity to Netanyahu's office. That's kind of how he, that's just in Israel. That's not an insult. It's just, and it's a compliment. He's like the Barack Revid of Israel.

Yeah. And people assume that unless otherwise explained his source on things is Netanyahu. And we've quoted him many times on the show, as you said, specifically to give a view into the Israeli government. So he has a telegram channel. Yeah. And he was live tweeting, whatever you want to call it, on his English language telegram channel, while Trump was doing his press conference. And he writes, so he writes, Trump, quote, Trump, colon, we didn't talk about the first one we rescued,

and then someone leaked something about the navigator. We're going to find whoever leaked it, whoever it is. We'll manage to track them down through the network that published it. We'll ask for the leaker. We'll say it's national security, and therefore it couldn't end up in prison. and then Siegel adds, as you may recall, this was first published here, which Israeli journalists had been reaching out saying, hey, it was a meet Siegel, by the way, that first published this. And so I was going around looking for evidence that he was the first one that published it. And then he just tweeted it out himself.

Like he just comes out and says, yeah, actually, it was me. I was the one who did this. So we go to the White House. Yeah. We can put up C3. We ask the White House for comments. Say, hey, White House. Yeah. We're like, might have found you guys.

Named Siegel. And they say on background, an investigation is underway. It's such a funny. Yeah. An investigation is underway. Now, to be fair to Amit, here's what he says. After all of this broke, he says, newsweek first post and New York Post have all pointed the finger at me.

While appreciate the attention, I fear it's undeserved. was not the first journalist to report that the pilot was missing. So then why'd you lie about that? Nor that he was injured. I suppose the accusations are a testament to my timely reporting. But the fact is the Guardian and two Israeli channels broke the story before I did. I imagine Israeli journalist-in-dagers American pilot makes a better headline. And then he says, if you're looking for cutting-edge news that doesn't breach national security,

subscribe to my telegram. So he is now backtracking the initial claim he made on his telegram and says, actually, it was the Guardian and two other Israeli channels that broke it. Nobody has been able to effectively say for sure who the first person broke it. What seems obvious is that it's not just the Israelis that broke it, that multiple like channels across the world. It is also a little bit absurd because let's put C4 up there on the screen. The Iranians are the people who actually were also, quote, leaking it because they shot

the plane down. And I mean, they were boasting about it, obviously, as they did to Jeremy. in the immediate aftermath. They said an Iranian official says... Right, 309 a.m. Right, 3.09.09. Many hours before the Amitsego stuff. 3.09 a.m. So, yeah, maybe it's Jeremy. Maybe they should prosecute Jeremy for leaking it from... From the Iranians. Yeah, from the Iranians? Tell us your Iranian source.

They say that because of the nature of the strike, the pilot could not evacuate, intense fire at the scene. No remains have yet been found. There are conflicting reports on whether any military personnel may have successfully evacuated before it went down. There's military helicopter activity reported in the area conducting on what appears to be a search mission. So this is interesting. So to give Trump some credit, what he's saying here, or what he's trying to say is that maybe the Iranians thought that they both died. And so that, so there's some support for that in Jeremy's first tweet, which is, which he sources to an Iranian official. The official said that because of the nature of the strike, the pilot could not evacuate before crashing. And so what he's saying, what Trump is saying is that they initially thought there was, one pilot, and he was killed. And so therefore, American and Israeli reporters who later said there were two, and one had been found, and the other was being looked for, put them at risk. Now, yes, Amit, I don't actually think was even the first, even though he claimed he was.

And as soon as people understood that it was a F-15E, they know that there's two people on that. Anybody with access to Wikipedia knew there were two. And also, the idea that Iran would be like, well, looks like we got him. Let's just, let's move on about our day and wouldn't like Hunt. That is also absurd. So the whole thing is absurd. However, it is just utterly comical

that it does appear that the first leaking came through the Israeli media. Like we said, yeah, the Israeli media, as Amit acknowledged, appears to have been some of the first people to report it. Amit himself took credit for it. There's another Israeli media. Ariel Kahana.

Right. So can you want to explain that? So there's another Israeli journalist who also either took credit for it or seemed to be very, very early in his reporting of the story. And put up Ariel Kahana's Hebrew language telegram post here.

This is that kind of famous image of the ejector seat. Of the ejector seats. Yeah. And this is, but all Ariel Kahana reports in this and you guys can try to translate this or you can just go find and translate it. All he's basically saying there,

is that, you know, there's been a downing. He doesn't really give away any information that wouldn't be also available on Wikipedia, but he also very clearly is citing Israeli sources. Yes. And so if you take Trump seriously and you want to know where the original leaks came from, they came from Israeli sources,

but the Americans were leaking it as soon as they found the guy too. So the whole thing is ridiculous. However, look, man, We don't make the rules. Yeah, look, we are not Israeli law. I checked. It makes clear that a journalist must report his source if it's deemed a national security crisis. I oppose that law in my own country.

However, you know, I'm not Israel. You have to respect Israeli law. How many times have we been told that? Is Trump just going to completely memory hold this thing? This will be totally memory hold. You will never hear about it again after it turns out that it was very like, again, we're not saying it was Amit Segal, but we are definitely saying. that it looks like Israeli media were some of the very first to report it. And so we encourage this leak investigation wherever it may lead us.

In fact, it may even lead us to the Israeli Ministry of Defense, which, oh, that was an entire memory hold part of this story, is initially the Times of Israel reported, the Times of Israel reported that it appears that it came from the sources within the Israeli Ministry of Defense. That was tweeted out. Then they removed that from their story. story. Miranda Devin, a New York Post reporter, is that right? So New York Post reporter was like, she tweeted that. She was like, oh my God, I can't believe this. So then they immediately deleted that part of the story and they updated their story to say we erroneously reported that this. Did we say in Israeli source? We erroneously reported that it was in Israeli service after the Israeli administration's defense was like, whoa, it wasn't us. So you take that what you will. So either.

I don't know where that erroneous report came from. would be interesting. Should they explain that? Yeah, they should. Think about how fun that is. Who erroneously told you? So either the Times of Israel is saying that they completely made up a source. Right. And published something fake. Or they actually did have a source and are now lying because Trump is angry at them. Yes. I have a lot of respect for their integrity. So I think they did not fabricate a source. I think they had a real source. And now they're like, oh, we didn't realize that we were going to get in trouble for that.

So never mind. All right. Well. All right. Let's go to the Interceptors, shall we? Canadian women are looking for more. More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark.

And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women. Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on IHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans,

a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all. better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey there, folks, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here.

And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials. And what the hell is that Blake lively thing about anyway? We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and T.J. for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. The U.S. is reaching the limits of its physical military capacity as it enters into, what, the seventh week or something of this U.S. Israeli conflict with Iran. We can put up this Bloomberg article. U.S. deploys bulk of stealthy long-range missiles for Iran war. To put this into some context here, you know, we had two carrier groups that were in the region, one of them because of what they said as a result of a laundry fire. but, you know, I think more accurately as a result of just being deployed for too long, you know,

this is, the GELD Ford was sent to, you know, down to Venezuela to carry out the operation there against Maduro, and then they were told they were going home right after that. Instead, they steamed across the ocean, headed over close to Iran to take part in that, along with the Lincoln aircraft carrier group. at the same time, the U.S. has been using an extraordinary amount of its resources to defend against Iranian attacks, particularly against Israel, but also against the rest of the Gulf countries. The Gulf countries upset saying that Israel gets greater priority, and also they have access to that and the patron and all these other things. U.S. pulling assets out of Asia to bring them over to the region. the U.S. also getting the carrier groups and others, the bases are getting emptied out by Iranian attacks on the Gulf bases, which means that you then have to fly further. Spain, followed by Italy, now followed by the U.K., have said, forget it. You're not using our territory to fly over. You're not using our bases to launch attacks on civilian infrastructure. That stretches the U.S. thinner.

the recognition that the claim of 100% air superiority turned out to be false also changes the equation, because now you can't use your more conventional bombing aircraft. You have to send in, you know, you have to send in the F-35s, an F-35 gets clipped. Now that means you have to take a lot more care around what you can do. Then you have to rely a lot more on Tomahawks. only have so many tomahawks. You know the, like, how many tomahawks do we make a year? About a dozen.

Oh, well, we ordered 57. Yeah. As of last year, we've used 800 so far in the war. So, yeah, a little bit of a problem. Also, update on that act. We don't even have this in the story. I know only just happened yesterday. The Japanese press reported yesterday that they had a huge order of tomahawk missiles,

which, by the way, they did because we asked them to. Right. Because we were like, hey, you need to buy some. They were like, okay. So they did. And we just went to them yesterday. And they're like, yeah, just so you know, that's not going to be fulfilled, even though you've paid for it already. Right.

And we will be taking the Tomahawks. This very same missiles, which we wanted them to buy for some deterrence effect in China and also against North Korea. And we're keeping the money. Oh, yeah, and we're keeping the money. You'll eventually get your missiles, maybe-ish. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's kind of a disaster. Same thing with the UAE, by the way, with many interceptors.

South Korea is a similar problem. This is really bad. And a bunch of weapons that were intended for Ukraine. Yep. The U.S. said, actually, you know, what, we're going to go ahead and take those. And the Europeans are like, wait, didn't we pay for those? We're like, yeah, you know what. Right.

You'll get it eventually. What is property and money really, you know, when you're a hegemon? Well, we're just going to go ahead and borrow these. And so one piece of evidence of, like, how stretched in things are, you can put up D2 here. C-17s just like a giant ant march, you know, up the Eastern Seaboard over toward the theater there. Put up D3 as well. This looks at Tungsten in particular.

The headline, if you're just listening to this, is from foreign policy. America's War Machine runs on Tungsten, and it could run out. You could actually run that headline and put several other critical elements inside there, and it would also be accurate. We hollowed out our productive capacity over the course of the last 50 years.

We focused on this kind of, you know, shock and awe strategic approach. We enriched our military industrial complex with this trillion dollar annual defense budget with basically no kind of checks and balance on it, like no quality control, no because it. It feeds itself. Things are going well in Northern Virginia and suburban Maryland. Then things are going well for everybody who's going to rock the boat. And so it was designed in a corrupt fashion, but also literally not designed for an extended war against a real country. It was designed for like 2003, three or four-day bombing campaign of Baghdad,

followed by sending in a bunch of troops and paying Aliburton to, you know, to survive. to supply it. Let me, did you put D1 yet up on the screen? Yeah, you can put D1 back up if you were. I want to expand a little bit on some of these missiles is that they are explicitly being taken away from the Indo-Pacific region. It's not just about a shortage.

It's that you're burning through the vast majority of the stockpile. There were over 2,400 before the war. If they take all of them out, there will be about 400 left. So do the math about what that means, almost 2,000 in a single one-month period. also to connect this to my great fear of what we talked about in our A block, when you start to run out of conventional weapons, what do you do, Ryan? You have to start thinking about unconventional weapons or ground troops. And that's exactly where things are going. If we take this whole civilization will die tonight truth, and we combine that with what's left in the U.S. military arsenal. Well, let's say you're in the same boat as Truman. Now, you put yourself in this boat, but what was his calculus? His calculus was.

well, 250,000 dead Americans, atomic bomb. Now, it was a little bit more complicated than that, but in his mind, that's what he was thinking at the time. And he goes, okay, I'm going with the bomb. Well, this is going to be very simple. So after, let's say that this power plant bombing, and it doesn't work, almost certainly just leads to horizontal escalation with Iran. They wipe out all these power plants, desalination plants, oil infrastructure all across the Gulf. We're in a full-blown global depression. And now he has a choice. tactical nuclear, tactical nuclear weapon, not that there is such a thing, or he can use ground forces. Well, the war is only going to be even more unpopular. When America wakes up tomorrow,

it's, we're living in a whole new world, not just in terms of what we've wrought, but people will actually, at least I hope, finally start to pay attention to what the hell is going on here. And then you combine that with where the president it is. He either has to order ground troops, or he has to order some sort of unconventional weapon, especially when the military is going to start coming to you and say, listen, we can't keep up the sustained bombing campaign, or we're going to rip everything dry, like all of these munitions. This isn't just, this is just the way that wars are not meant to be fought. They either have to be fought on the ground, have a diplomatic solution, or you need to bring this to an end immediately. So the brittleness of the U.S.

Defense Industrial Base is right around, right around now is when we expected things to break. Right. In the early days of the war, I quoted a expert named Seth Jones over at CSIS. As you You know, CSIS is like this with the Pentagon. Right. All right. They're basically an arm of the Pentagon. Yeah. Which is why you should listen because they tell you the things that the Pentagon wants to say but can't.

And he said neither Israel nor the U.S. has the munitions for a month's long war. Out loud, he said it on the very first day. When I put that out, I was ridiculed by the Zionists by the pro war lobby. Here we are. We're a month in. We're stripping interceptors. I mean, oh, God, we already stripped the interceptors out of South Korea. That took two weeks.

Now we're stripping all these missiles out of the entire Indo-Pacific. We've got these large C-17, you know, refueling tankers, which we've had to bring back. The money have been struck. We had that U.S. Navy, what was it, the E-3 spy plane. That was taken out. There's only 14 in the whole world. It was bombed. Let's put D3 up there on the screen already.

They're talking about a big tungsten shortage. This is from foreign policy. It could run out. The U.S. operations are draining limited U.S. stocks that show how reliant the war machine is on tungsten and exactly that material, which is very low in supply for a lot of the munitions and piercing rounds that we want to use, very low. We don't have enough. A lot of it is in China. And they don't want to sell it to us, shocker, in order to fund this war, which is currently happening. And so what do you think it's

going to, what do you think it's going to happen? So as we start to dwindle, and this is the same playbook that we saw in the First World War. As I've said, if you look back, the amount of munition artillery shells that they had budgeted for the whole war, they blew through in a month, in a month. So they were like, oh my God, what do we do? They were able to go total war, nationalized the economy, put everything into production. Obviously, nobody really ran out of shells. But when you start to run low, you have to start thinking about how do we change the status quo. And right now, there's only two options, unconventional weapons or ground troops both are a horrific disaster for the world, for us, I mean, for the economy. In the, in the middle,

you know, so many millions of people are going to be affected. And this is the danger, not even to think about the bigger picture about the Asia Pacific, our real allies. I mean, you know, we talked earlier in the show, how crazy is it? The Trump is like, yeah, our only real allies are the Gulf and Israel. You're like, what? Australia, South Korea? Japan? I mean, look, you know, people know I hate Europe. but like, come on. Like, I'll take fucking London over, over Tel Aviv. Like, what are we doing here?

ASML, like, all these companies that come out of there. Again, you know, sure, they're sclerotic, but it's not, what are we getting from Israel? Waze? All right, I'm good, all right? You know, if I have to choose between the two of those things. Waze is pretty good. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah.

But if I had to use Google Maps, I could suffer through it. And at the same time that we're getting exhausted, Israel is getting exhausted, too. as we're told, the number of interceptors that Israel has left that are capable of taking on ballistic missiles is at a critically low point. And that's obvious. Like, we don't have to be told that, though we are. It is obvious just from the math, the numbers that they had, the numbers that they've been using. And at the same time, the Iranians haven't deployed many of their most sophisticated hypersonic missiles, which are capable of more precise targeting and of evading these very interceptors that they're running critically low on. And so Israel is relying very heavily on the U.S.

Navy and its interception capacity, as it is much more vulnerable to attack. And also, And this is why I just like Israel's decision to want to continue going forward with this at this point is so maniacal and so suicidal because it is, I've heard somebody describe it as an energy island. Because it is, you know, this country that is isolated from all the other countries in the region, it's not connected in a lot of ways. It has its own kind of energy island grid. if a few different nodes of that are hit, it is plunged into darkness. Iran, you can plunge it into darkness. We still have enough munitions

that we can do extraordinary kinetic damage to Iran. No doubt about it. But Iran has hundreds and hundreds of power plants. Israel has, what, 10, 8? Like, not many. So if they're hit, and if they can't protect them from getting hit, And if Iran decides to use its hypersonic ballistic missiles against a much depleted ballistic missile defense, they're going to get through and hit Israeli power plants.

Which then kills, like, it kills people. Well, you was going to say, you should tell people about this because you were just in Cuba. Yeah. And tell them what you saw. What does it mean when you lose power? The most immediate thing. And so we might have for a range of different people, but the most immediate and obvious thing is patients who are in hospitals on ventilators die they die or the nursing staff has to run to them with their

iPhone camera on or their smartphone can't phone smartphone light on and hand pump which is not what you want because you also want to be able to check their vitals constantly and you want to be able to give the right amount of oxygen um so you can keep them alive for a while but like not forever we also talked to um mom whose kid is on an oxygen tank and she said in the hospital the nurses are so good that they're not as worried that when the power goes out. But at home, they have to rush to like get the oxygen tank, get the mobile one, get the mobile one that's battery powered, if the battery's not charged up, you're screwed. Also, the shutdown, the immediate shutdown of power damages all of this equipment. I talked to a researcher at their, at Cuba's neuroscience

center who was saying that they're losing a bunch of data to corruption because you can't just done, shut down. Like you just lose stuff. MRI machines crash because the cooled helium that the cooled liquid helium that is essential to an MRI machine

MRI machine loses power. That helium becomes a gas. Ryan, do you want to tell me where liquid helium comes from? Do you want to tell me where 30 to 40% of the world helium comes from? Cutter makes that from the fields that we even bombed one of the fields that makes that helium.

Yeah. So, you know, if you're Cuba, you can't get it just because you're sanctioned and told that you're terrorists. But if you had money a month ago in the United States, you can buy new helium. If Trump goes through what he threatens and the entire straight is mined, if Qatar's gas field is destroyed, there is a world where in a year, Europeans are waking up and there's no helium in your MRI. And that's also it's for a perishable good. It's for AI. Yeah. Like it is a-

It's very critical for semiconductor. manufacturing. Right. So what I didn't know before I went to Cuba is like, you know, it's not this kind of stuff I know. You cool helium to an extraordinarily low temperature, and that interacts with the magnets in the semiconductor and MRI technology in ways that allows it to move very frictionless. And that lack of friction is essential to the advanced sophisticated technology and an economy that we have today. When that stuff warms up, to anywhere remotely approaching.

Think about a helium balloon, right? Like, it becomes a gas, it seeps out. It's gone. You can't chase it. You have to produce it in cutter and then ship it around. If those facilities are on fire, you can't. So if you need an MRI, like, get it now. Yeah, you're right.

And I would suggest you don't get cancer or anything else that's going to require an MRI in the near, to medium term future. And who knows all the other petrochemicals? Right. All of these other ones. We're going to find out how physical our economy is. We think our economy is fantasy and imagination and we just press these buttons and things work. We're going to find out that there are actually things underneath here. Yeah. Yeah. In our last AMA, someone was like, how do I prepare for this? And I was like, honestly, just save your money. I was like, have cash.

I was like, that's all I can really say. Because we'll be okay. We're a rich country. As in like, we won't starve to death, a lot of other people will probably starve to that or may starve to death if, you know, things become the worst case scenario. For us, we won't, but things will become massively expensive and effectively unlivable. So yeah, that's the only advice that we can get. By the way, that's an extremely privileged piece of advice because most people, if they could be saving, they would be. So there you go. What a disaster. All right, let's move on. Canadian women are looking for more. More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them.

And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women. Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on IHeart Radio or wherever you listen to you. your podcasts.

You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships.

I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%.

They believe everything. But at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them.

Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All right. Turning now to Tucker Carlson, extraordinary new remarks in his latest episode, effectively calling Donald Trump. the Antichrist, blasting him for his Easter message. Let's take a listen. Who do you think you are? You're tweeting out the effort on Easter morning? You'll be living in hell.

Just watch. Praise be to Allah. So obviously you're mocking the religion of Iran. Okay. If you seek a religious war, that's a good idea. But by the way, no decent person mocked other people's religions. You may have a problem with the theology, presumably you do if it's not your religion, and you can explain what that is. But to mock other people's faith is to mock the

idea of faith itself, and we should never mock that. Because at its core is the acknowledgement that we are not in charge of the universe. We did not build it. We won't be here at the end of it. We can destroy life. We cannot create it because we are not God. The message of all faith at the biggest picture level is the message in our Bible, which is you are not God. And only if you think you are, do you talk this way? But it's not just mockery of Islam. And no president should mock Islam.

That's not your job. This is not a theocracy. We don't go to war with other theocracies to find out which theocracy is more effective. We are not a theocracy. And God willing, we never will be because theocracies corrupt the religion. No, this is a mockery not just of Islam. It's a mockery of Christianity. To send out a tweet with the F word on Easter morning promising the murder of civilians and then saying praise be to Allah without explaining any of it, you are mocking me and every other Christian because we're Christians.

We can't support that. That is evil. That is an intentional desecration of beauty and truth, which is the definition of evil. So defending Islam didn't think I would see it in my lifetime. but the bigger thing that he's talking about there is the departure. First of all, major political implication here, this is the biggest shot Tucker's taken. I took a shot at Trump on Tucker's show, and I will admit it's not really just about Tucker, but Joe Kent as well, but there was this, you know, like, oh, it's Israel's war and kind of the bad boyars,

like the Zahar has bad advisors, but like that's out the window now. Right. It's very odd. This is Trump. Look, we had to be honest about it. You know, and now it's just so obvious, I think, to everyone. But I think what the Easter message and now the departure of the open the straight and now this morning civilization will die. This is, I mean, genuinely probably one of the most insane statements by a president at war ever in modern history.

And when you open the door to nuclear weapons like he is in that statement, it actually does. that is the time to start talking about good and evil and humanity. And I'm a secular person, as people know. But this is then the time, I think, to be talking in explicitly apocalyptic terms. And yeah, religion is going to be a part of that. Right. Yeah, no, agree. I'm secular too.

And so I really like avoid phrases like good and evil. Right. Same. But you're right. Like, there's no other way to describe this sort of thing. And I am somebody who even though I'm sexually. I have, I don't have the like Bill Maher like hatred sure for religion. I did when I was a teenager. I don't know. Sure. Yeah. It's a normal. That's a normal teen thing. But as you grow older, you're like you see the beauty and the wisdom and he expresses it, I think, you know, quite quite well that like that there is beauty and faith and it is rooted in faith in humanity ultimately. And it is in a kind of Islamian submission or a sense that there's something greater than us and that we have to all love each other.

And that part is, that part's terrific and essential to what it means to be a human. And Tucker, yes, just absolutely obliterating him on it on every level. Let's roll F2 as well. On inauguration day, the president did not take his oath of office. with his hand on the Bible. His wife stood next to him holding it. I was about 15 feet away and saw it, but he did not put his hand in the Bible. And that should have been maybe a clue that we need to pause and think about what is this. Why wouldn't you put your hand on the Bible? If you don't believe in the Bible, you think it's just a book, there's no cost to you to putting

your hand on it, just kind of following the protocol, going along with the tradition, all presidents do it. Why aren't you doing it? and you're not doing it intentionally, you're choosing not to put your hand on the Bible when you take that oath. That suggests not that you don't believe it's real, because if you didn't believe it was real, why would you care?

You put on the costume and take it off. It doesn't matter. That suggests you know it is real and you're rejecting it intentionally. You know what you're doing, and you're doing it anyway. That is immoral. That will never be moral.

That can never be justified. That is always wrong. It can be expedient. We need to do this. It doesn't mean that's right. It's the most wrong thing. And we should always remember that what we do will be done to us. Live by the destruction of civilian infrastructure.

Live by the killing of children, the bombing of elementary schools and colleges. And you will die and your children will die by those same. things. That's just a fact. Yeah. And I was thinking about that a lot as he was I watched this last night and listened to a little bit again this morning. It is a very interesting observation actually because his point is to me correct that

if you actually are just a straight up atheist. Like you or I. Just put your... Yeah, I don't care. I'll put my hand on the book. It's a book. Yeah. If that's what you believe. two Bibles in my house. Right. I've got a Gita too. Yeah. I've got a Quran. Interesting books. Right. There's something profound in that gap between his hand and the Bible, which I guess people are going to now Ocent and fact check as much as they possibly can. Have you noticed if they're...

No, I haven't. All I've seen actually, by the way, breaking news. Here's a response. President Trump has responded. Okay. All right. Tucker is a low IQ person that has absolutely no idea what's going on. He calls me all the time. I don't respond to his calls. I don't deal with him. I like dealing with smart people, not fools. Lyer. He says he likes to be surrounded by losers. Yes, that's right. The best part, too, is when Tucker does call him, it's usually to try to say, because as he said openly, I try to maintain an open line so that I can try to talk to him about things like, hey, don't do this. Right. And in the latest time that he attempted to, you know, get some, the latest time that he tried to make contact with Trump,

he was told, he told me this explicitly on the air, so I'm not like, I'm not breaking any confidences, that he was told even by the White House, don't bother coming, because he's being shown polls that 95% of people support this war. Yeah, that's the reality of where we are. Look, I do think this is commendable and important from Tucker, and I do think at this point any of us who were, you know,

who were in any way, like, support, of Trump or were supportive of the Trump project or boosted for years, many of the people who work now in the Trump administration, like I alluded to earlier, it's over. This is a time of choosing. If you do not resign by the time of 8 p.m. and that's when the bombs are going to drop, you are in this. We will never forgive you. Trump, for me, it was already long ago over.

But I do think for everybody else at this point, low level and all the way up, you all talked a big game about the Iraq war. If you stay for one second when we're going to destroy a civilizing, call us a panic and I don't care. You people have the power of God in your hands, as Tucker is saying, which alludes to what? To power to destroy great civilizations. Also, I was just looking this morning. Apparently, one of the only parallel to Trump's civilization, civilization will die quote, is from, please forgive me. I'm not as read up on Greek history. It is the Delphic Oracle said to Crossius of Lydia in the histories that if you cross the Halleys, you will destroy a great empire.

But the irony is that he thought that the great empire was Persia. So he attacked Cyrus the Great, aka Iran, of that time. But what actually happened is his own kingdom was destroyed. Right. The Oracle was right. So this isn't even talking about Jesus. Well, let's take it back to the Greek gods of what they were trying to tell us about this. That's the only comparison that we have here.

So if you have complicity in that, it is so beyond over. You're done. We will never defend you, protect you. In fact, we should go to the greatest lengths possible that if you did not do what you could stop this when you had real power in your hands, you are now beyond complicit. And we will treat you the way that we should have dealt with George W. Bush, with Dick Cheney, with Paul Wolfowitz, and with every single other person. In fact, my lesson from all of this, Ryan, is we didn't do enough to punish the people who were complicit in the Iraq war.

We should make it clear. Like, I'm about to dye my hair pink. We're going for truth and reconciliation, bitch. That's exactly right. And in 2009, when Obama came in, he had this famous quote where he said, we're looking forward, not backward. Yeah. Right. And the left at the time, what little there was of it absolutely freaked out, making the argument,

you cannot allow that to be business as usually. Yes, yes, yes. If you don't have some consequences for somebody, and the next two years, there were many opportunities for consequences. There's an entire movie about the Senate Torture Report. I remember that was circulating. And the Obama administration's intelligence apparatus

doing everything it could to suppress this report and water it down and make sure that there were no prosecutions. You didn't even have to go after Bush and Cheney and Wolfo Whist, which I thought at the time you should, and I think you're right today that we should have. You could go after some mid-level or even slightly higher CIA officials that engaged in torture and rendition.

Even just that small amount of criminal accountability is a shot at the heart of that impunity and would and could have reshaped how people think about what's allowable. I think you're right. Do you follow that up by bailing out the bankers and not prosecuting any of them as well? Instead, went after like Joe Judice

for like some mortgage fraud. That was like the extent of the prosecutions. And it created this sense that the swamp was in control. And so you needed somebody who alone can fix it. And so he comes in. And he, instead of fixing it, absorbs the lesson that there are no laws. Yes.

And there are no consequences. I can do whatever I want. See, this is why, you know, a lot of people attacked the hell out of us at the time, Ryan. This is why Russiagate was such a disaster. It resuscitated all of these Bush-era neocons like Bill Crystal and Liz Cheney and all of these other people who were elevated. And in service of not actually looking at what really happened. In service of what really happened, exactly.

It became Russia did it and not, oh, we screwed up generation of policy and all of it. And that, I mean, I know attacked a set of it. so often at the time, but it is so deeply true. And then now you have those very same people whitewashed, famously now trying to control whether people are allowed to talk to Hassan Piker. It's like, bitch you had out in the Iraq war. And you're right, yeah, what are we doing here? You know, who do you think you're talking to? And so one of the guys that's been tightest with Trump and taken so many arrows for him was Alex Jones. Yes. He's now calling for the 25th Amendment, and so is Marjorie Taylor Green. So is Marjorie Taylor Green. Do you see any of you?

Is there any movement inside the administration? I don't see it. I mean, obviously not for the Tenth Amendment, but like some high-profile about J.D. Vance. I mean, wouldn't it be him, so I understand it, he would be the person who has to do it. He's going to care more about his career. Sad to say, you know, I thought I knew somebody different, but the truth is that we didn't, is that absolute power does corrupt absolutely.

And I've read about it in a book. It is another thing to experience it on a deeply visceral and a personal level. Now is the time for action to literally save the world from the precipice of disaster. This is what people do movies about, and now you find yourself a central character. And it's not just about him. It's about all the other people who surround Donald Trump who are inside of the White House. Do they have the courage to actually do something about, let's even put the 25th

Amendment aside. Offer your resignation. Create a titanic political scandal. Do you have the courage to do something like that? And I think the answer right now is pretty clearly no. So we're in it now. And the irony is. The irony is if all you care about cynically is your own personal advancement,

showing courage in this moment is actually the way to advance your own individual interests. Anybody who stands up to this at this moment will be rewarded by the public and by the global public, but particularly by the American public, as Tucker clearly knows. And we could have a whole conversation about electoral implications, all of that, but it feels crass in this moment of absolute desperation for the entire world. But if you are cynical in this moment, the play is courage, not, well, maybe Mr. President, we should go ahead and do it.

You're the greatest Mr. President ever. Which the problem, though, is ironically, that might be the only way to do it if you were in power. That's the story that they always tell themselves is that, oh, well, we have to gas him up in order to get him to do. what we want. But at this point, things are so dire. Like, there's only one language, right? The Joe can't, by the way, look, Joe can't, maybe he didn't change anything, but he created a problem, right? He created a problem. Create problems. Resign. Do something. All right? Because look, maybe you can't stop Trump. And it probably is unstoppable. That's the truth. The way that the Constitution, the nuclear codes and all of that work, look, you know, this fantasy, it's not going to happen. All right? If he wants to do it, he's going to do it.

And, I mean, look, I hate to say that. Let me tell you. But at the very least, or whoever of us survive. You know, you need to be able to put it down in the book, X and Y and Z, did something whenever they could. Tucker's joined. He's done whatever he could. I did what I could, I guess, you know, at a certain point. Well, we're just YouTubers.

Like, we're looking for people who are in power for God's sake. Right. And for them, outside of Kent, we've seen nothing. Yeah. Nothing. All right. Very depressing show. I apologize, but I mean, when you set the tone from the beginning of civilization will die.

Yeah, that's hard to be. the least fun bro show we've ever done. I believe so. All right. Well, Ryan and Emily will be on tomorrow. Hopefully not for a very historic show. So you'll see them all then. And we'll continue to give you a special coverage as much as we can.

And I guess Ryan and I are going to go do the AMA. Every question is going to be about the civilization will die. True. So there you go. All right. We'll see you later. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Lori Siegel and this is mostly human, a tech podcast through a human lens.

This week, an interview. you with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world. An in-depth conversation with a man who's shaping our future. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast.

My latest episode is with Noah Kohn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platin, Global Hit Stick Season. I'm one of the biggest voices in music today. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. Getting to talk about this is not common for me. Right now I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty

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