Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 4/8/26: Trump Blinks On Iran Threat, Iran Ready For War To Resume, Hegseth Copes

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

Ryan and Emily discuss Trump blinks on Iran threat, Iran ready for war to resume, Hegseth cope.   Robert Pape: https://escalationtrap.substack.com/ Jeremy Scahill: https://x.com/jeremyscahill?s=20      To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yes. The war is over, or is it, might be the theme of today's show. Over-ish, yeah. Over-ish, right. That's probably the best way to put it at this point. So all kinds of breaking news overnight. The president was posting on truth social, so we have response to the end of the war that was declared last night, but continuing to get details on what that actually means. What does that mean for the Strait of Hormuz? Oil prices have already dipped, but should they? How far should they actually fall, Ryan, a lot to get into from the president. The Pentagon has had a press conference early this morning. We're going to bring you comments from that. And also, of course, from the Iranian side, from the Israelis. What's actually on the table right now, there's so much to go over just from the last

12 hours. We have it all. Yes, and we'll be joined in a moment by my dropside colleague Jeremy Scahill to break down how the Iranians are feeling about this two-week ceasefire leading into negotiations toward a permanent end to the war. New York Times out with a huge new kind of TikTok about the way that Netanyahu on February 11th or 12th went to the, actually into the situation room. And with Mossad and other military officials on screen behind him, made the hard sell, as they describe it for the Iran war. And by the end of it, the next day, President Trump had said, I think we should do it. We'll unpack that. And also reactions from Democrats on Capitol Hill. We'll have some flowers for some of them. Some little criticism for some others. Not little.

We got some, we got Republicans, Alex Jones, Marjorie Taylor Green and others, just losing their mind about Trump having lost his mind. Calling for the 25th Amendment. Some stronger reactions from some of them than some Democrats, in fact. And we got Professor Pape. That's right. So big, big show. Big show to get to. The news is happening. actually while we're recording this today. So we are going to... Oh, Ben Shapiro. We're going to have a little bit of fun. Well, it's fun, but it's also related to, you mentioned we we have Jeremy on the show, but it's related to the work that you guys are doing over at DropSight. Basically, if people are... People are calling the 25th Amendment Trump. People are calling to...

Fourth Amendment us? Yeah, I was just going to ask what you think the right Amendment is for that. They want them gone. They want them gone. They want them gone. Lock them up. All right. Let's get into the show because that's... we keep mentioning, there's so much to go through. As a reminder, breakingpoints.com is where you can go to get a premium subscription, help us keep doing this independent journalism here. We're so grateful to all of you. If you can't subscribe, no problem.

Go ahead, subscribe on YouTube. That's, of course, free or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's now go into the big news, A1. Let's put this up on the screen, a true social post from Donald Trump, where he said, last night with how long to go until the deadline, Ryan? We were right up on that eight. hour and a half. Yep, right about right about there. He said, based on conversations with Prime Minister Shabash Sharif, he goes on and says, Pakistan, wherein they had requested

that I hold off the destructive force being sent tonight to Iran and subject to the Islamic Republic of Iran, agreed to the complete, immediate, and safe opening of the Strait of Hormuz. I agreed to suspend the bombing and attack of Iran for a period of two weeks. He said this will be a double-sided ceasefire. The reason for doing so is that we have already met and exceeded all military objectives and are very far along with a definitive agreement concerning long-term peace with Iran and peace in the Middle East. Now, here's a really important part, and we're going to get Ryan's explanation of what it means. We received a 10-point proposal from Iran and believe it is a workable basis on which to negotiate almost all of the various points of past

contention have been agreed to between the U.S. and Iran, but a two-week period will allow the agreement to be finalized and consummated. Ryan, you posted a TikTok a couple of hours before Trump posted that truth social. Now, you said you think he watches you on TikTok. I don't think he watches on TikTok. Maybe he watches this show because I made a version of that point here too. Yes. But basically what you were saying is that he has a kind of public relations style off ramp on the table. And this was as of yesterday. He kind of took that. No? Yeah. So, Basically, the Iranians have for weeks now been put forward, and as we'll talk to Jeremy later about this, since the early days of the war put forward conditions under which they would enter into negotiations for a permanent end to the war.

The Iranians have been saying that for a very long time. But as is the want of the American media, we don't talk about that. But you have to go to dropside or here to hear about that because they're not. just crazy mullahs who are a death cult who just want to do like it's totally irrational why they're even what are they even upset about and so looking into what kind of an offer they're making to end the war what implies some rationality to your adversary and and you just can't you're not allowed to do that in American media and so this peace proposal from the Iranians has been on the table for a long time it's it's variously evolved

into what people now call a 10-point. Within the last few days, we're starting to call a 10-point plan. So the point I made was because the media has paid no attention to this, what Trump could do is say, I have gotten a 10-point proposal from the Iranians. They're on bended knee. My bullying, you know, beat this out of them, and we will now have world peace.

And that's exactly what he did. He said, I got a 10-point plan. And the Israelis, of course, are now freaking out. Because they're like, wait a minute, the 10 point, like this, the Iranians are setting the terms right for a permanent end to the war in which they will remain, uh, basically in control of the Strait of Hormuz and in a better position than they were in before Israel attacked them. Of course, you know, many people died. They attacked a lot of their civilian infrastructure, their ballistic missile stockpiles way down. All of that is true. But strategically,

you have to say they're in a much stronger position. We have more on that. Let's put this next truth social up on the screen. This is 12.01 a.m. from Donald Trump. He says, it's a big day for world peace. Iran wants it to happen. They've had enough. Likewise, so has everyone else. And then here's the, yeah, here's the Hormuz part. So he says, the United States of America will be helping with the traffic buildup in the

Strait of Hormuz. So just zeroing in on that line because last night, after Trump posts this true social ahead of the 8 p.m. deadline, everyone is wondering, what does this actually mean? What in this two-week period has been agreed to going forward? And that line itself, the U.S. would be helping with a traffic buildup in the Strait of Hormuz. That could mean anything or absolutely nothing, Ryan. And then he adds, we'll be loading up all sorts of supplies just hanging around, which comes after, he says Iran can build, you know, start reconstruction. But, So is he talking about supplies of reconstruction, or is he saying, no, we're going to use this time to resupply our armaments and our ammo, and then we're going to launch again.

Well, and this is, let's put the next true social up. There will be no enrichment of... This morning, right? This is, no, this one is from... Oh, yeah, it is from this morning. He says, the U.S. will work closely with Iran, which we have determined has gone through what will be a very productive regime change. There will be no enrichment of uranium, and the U.S. will, working with Iran, dig up and remove all of the deeply buried, nuclear, quote, dust. It is now and has been under very exacting satellite surveillance.

Nothing has been touched from the date of attack. We are and will be taking tariff and sanctions relief with Iran. So, Ryan, does Iran then end this war still in control of the Strait of Hormuz and with sanctions relief? Is that a possibility right now? Absolutely is a possibility. In fact, it's a likelihood because that's what happens when you are in a military conflict, and I wouldn't say they won in the sense that they didn't, like, conquer other territory, but they showed that they're still able to project force against the Gulf allies, against the America's Gulf allies and Israel, despite getting completely pounded. And so if they can continue to block the strait with just a few mines and a $20,000 drone from

anywhere in the country, then you have to enter into negotiation. So yeah, it looks like, you know, if this moves forward, they're emerging from in a position of, you know, significant strength. And a sign of how badly the U.S. one is the one that wanted this agreement, if you, if you, if you, if this is something fun you can do at home. So Shabash Sharif is the Pakistani prime minister. His Twitter account is C.M. Shabazz, S-E-H-E-H-B-A-Z. So you go back and find his, from yesterday afternoon, he posted basically a proposal for a two-week ceasefire. So the thing that became the thing that Trump accepted. Then Trump said, and the New York Times even reports, Trump responded to a Pakistani proposal of a two-week ceasefire. Is it a Pakistani proposal?

If you look into the edit history of the tweet. Yes. You noticed this. Yes, it says, it says draft post for Pakistan's PM. So Shabaz Sharif copied the entire thing he was handed and just past it on a Twitter and then hit post. And then somebody was like, hey boss, you left in the message at the top. Now think about this. Would Shabaz Sharif's own staff refer to him as Pakistan's prime minister? Like, do Trump's staff refer to him? Do Trump's staff refer to him as the American president or they just call him Mr. President. Like in Pakistan, he's the prime minister. He's not Pakistan's PM. Who is he Pakistan's PM2? Us. Right. So we sent him. So Trump sent him, like, post this on Twitter. I want you to post that you're asking for two weeks. And then

Trump responds, I'm taking it. And so you don't have to trust me, just go to his Twitter feed. You can just search and edit history. It's a very funny feature. It's a very funny feature. It's a, it's a It's sitting right there. Well, I want to get your take on the Iranian response so we can put the next element up on the screen. This is Arakchi's statement on behalf of the Supreme National Council of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which said, first offered appreciation to Pakistan, said in response to the brotherly request of PM Sharif in his tweet and considering the request by the U.S. for negotiations based on its 15-point proposal, as well as announcement by POTUS about acceptance of the general framework of Iran's 10-point proposal,

taking ownership of it there. As a basis for negotiations, I hereby declare on behalf of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, if attacks against Iran are halted, our powerful armed forces will cease their defensive operations for a period of two weeks, safe passage through the Strait of Hormuz, will be possible via coordination with Iran's armed forces and with due consideration of technical limitations. So they are in control of the Strait of Hormuz. Yes, and the concession that he's making in there is a reference to the 15-point plan that Trump had put forward. But as you notice, he's saying 10-point plan is the one that's the basis for negotiations. And can you help us understand how these different plans emerged or the timeline, basically,

because you guys at DropSight had this 10-point, you were aware of the 10-point, you were reporting on the 10-point. And now you're getting referenced all over the quote-unquote mainstream press because you guys were on this. When did that come out? So, and we'll talk to Jeremy, we'll talk to Jeremy about this a little bit more. The precise 10 points are still not out. So last week, Jeremy and I reported a story over at Dropside that was the first time where Iranian officials confirmed basically officially that they had in fact sent a proposal back to the United States because up until then, it was mostly a one way. Whitkoff kind of texting a Rajsh, texting others, like, come on, come on, come on. So what had been happening over the previous weeks is that Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, and Oman were all involved as either mediators or intermediaries, depending on how you want to characterize it.

And when you get into the diplomacy, like, they care. Because people will be like, they're not mediators because we're not negotiating. They're intermediaries. It's like, all right, stop. Come on. You're trying to get to a deal here. So the Iranians would give a handful of conditions, that they, similar conditions, that they'd started giving at the beginning of the war to these intermediaries, some to Turkey,

some to Egypt, some to Oman, some to Pakistan. And effectively, they then got compiled together in what became known and then internally, secretly for a while, as this like 10-point plan, which, and we revealed, I think, six of the points last week. And you can go, you know, find that over a drop site. But the basic things that we understand, They have to basically stop attacking Iran, stop attacking Lebanon, lift sanctions, back off our nuclear program. But we will promise that we will not do a nuclear bomb and we'll agree to different conditions, that sort of thing.

And so that's the deal. It then started becoming called a 10-point plan over the weekend slash Monday. And then Trump was like, okay, 10-point plan. But the point is, it's been out there. there. And Whitkoff and his team have been aware of versions of it for a very long time. And Iran has been very consistent. Jeremy, I think, reported Monday. Again, when they rejected this 48-hour, remember Trump was like, give us a 48-hour pause. And Iran said, no. Right. You're just going to rearm, hit us again. We want a permanent end to the war. And here are the conditions.

So what changed? What changed, I think, is Trump made a threat that he couldn't follow through on. And an end civilization? You got to do that. But why did Iran go from the 48-hour saying, no, we're not going to stop in 48 hours? Because we'll stop for two weeks. And we'll ask Jeremy about this too. But because Trump said, I accept the 10 points.

Yep, that's it. As the framework for negotiations going forward. And Iran's like, well, okay. I don't want to laugh, but it's for, the administration right now trying to claim this is a great day for like quote world peace and also that it wasn't I don't want to use the phrase taco either because it's so much more serious than a taco ridiculous sentence never thought it would come out of my mouth but truly absurd to frame this as a win for the Trump administration although we've known from the very beginning that

declare victory in our nomenclature means to lose Exactly. So, like, you know, we declared victory in Vietnam, and, you know, we spiked our helicopters in celebration. Yeah, right. It's like, so how we do it? I loved when the mission was accomplished. Yes.

That was, yeah. Just declare victory immediately. Yes. It helps if you have a banner. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kohn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit, Stick Season, and one of the biggest voices in music. today. Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapid success, his struggles with mental

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Let's go to A3 here. This is what's happening elsewhere in terms of how, quote, fragile the ceasefire is. That's what J.D. Vance used to describe it. He's in Europe. so he had a little bit of time on the rest of the world to make that declaration earlier this morning. Now, despite the announcement of a ceasefire, the Israeli Air Force continues to carry out strikes in Iran. I mean, while, Fabian reports, Iran, meanwhile, has fired several salvos of ballistic missiles at Israel since the ceasefire was reportedly supposed to take effect.

What do you make of that, Ryan? Yes, Israel keeps hitting them. Israel has also said, yeah, it won't ceasefire in Lebanon. and they celebrated the ceasefire, the first attack, it seems like, after the ceasefire in Lebanon, was an attack on an ambulance. What Israel has done in southern Lebanon to medics the last several weeks is one of the more horrifying war crimes that they've carried out over the last several years, and that continued. And so there's certainly a lot of concern that these tit-for-tat strikes combined with Israel's refusal to recognize that the ceasefire applies to Lebanon, even though

Hezbollah has said, okay, we agree to the ceasefire. So Hezbollah has agreed, Iran has agreed, Trump says that this is the framework, and the framework does include, that we've reported, we reported that last week, the framework includes an end to the war on Lebanon. But Israel is in the middle of an invasion. Like, they're not just bombing. Like, they have ground troops in there. and they have said they're trying to take and hold significant portions of Lebanon up to the Latani River, which is probably gas-related, actually. If you draw a line west from further up into Lebanon, you get much more of the gas field in the Mediterranean. So it's not just land, it's also natural gas.

But that is a huge risk that it's going to fall apart. I think Trump is going to have to step in. Yeah. So just on that point, worth noting that Lebanese authorities say 1,400, well, actually, almost 1,500 people have been killed in Israeli strikes since March 2nd. And that includes at least 124 children. The HRA&A group said 3,540 people have been killed since the war erupted in Iran. And about 1,600 of those were civilians, including at least 244.

children, death tolls around the Middle East, obviously, even some of the Gulf states. So it makes no sense to talk about any of this without mentioning there have been a lot of deaths just in the last. I mean, we have in the United States double-digit deaths among American service members. So what Trump is claiming right now as a win for the United States came at a high cost, came at a high cost, right? Yes. Yeah. What did we get out of this? And to the point of what do we get out of this? Go to the next element. Now it looks like, quote, the two-week ceasefire plan includes allowing both Iran and Oman to charge fees on ships transiting through the Strait of Hormuz.

Although interesting, the Omani foreign minister this morning, Omani Minister of Transport, we have signed all agreements related to maritime transport, stipulating that no fees will be imposed for passage to the Strait of Hormuz. That's from Oman. So that would be kind of interesting if Iran's like, yeah, we and we and Oman are going to charge a fee. And Amon's like, no, never mind. It actually would really reflect which countries are sovereign and which aren't. We'll see what happens. But just the fact that that's even being reported right now is, yeah, at what cost, at what cost. Now, we can put the next element up on the screen this Joe Weisandthal post from yesterday.

dated Brent just hit its highest level in history. That was as of yesterday afternoon. CNBC, after the market opened this morning, has said, oil prices plunged back below $95 following the announcement. Brent crude futures are down more than 13% this morning, while U.S. West Texas intermediate futures are more than 16% lower. So that's where we are with oil prices. Let's go now to the next element.

This is what we know about the 10-point conditions. Ryan, complete cessation of any aggression against Iran. And these are, yeah, take these with a grain of salt. That's what I was going to ask. Okay. Go ahead. So complete cessation of any aggression against Iran and allied resistance groups. Yeah, check.

There you go. Withdrawal of U.S. combat forces from the region? Well, we don't know. We don't know. That might be in there, but we'll talk to Jeremy about this. We don't think so. Okay. Limited daily passage of ships through the strait for two weeks.

Cancellation of all primary sanctions, secondary sanctions, and UN sanctions. Yeah. If they get that, I mean, they got to. Yeah. It sounds like they did. Compensation for Iran's damages through the creation of an investment in financial fund. That'll be through the, that will get, they'll say, no, you don't have to do that, but we're going to charge for the ships. Yeah.

Okay. Iran's commitment to not building nuclear weapons. Yeah. Check. Acceptance by the United States of Iran's right to enrichment and negotiation on the level of enrichment. That is my understanding of the kind of thing the Iranians. we're putting in this. Now, the U.S. is saying that they're going to push back on that and negotiate that. Iran's agreement to negotiate bilateral and multilateral peace treaties with regional countries

in its own interests. Don't know if that's in there. It would make sense. How can we be against that? Yeah, that's extension of non-aggression to all resistance groups. Yes. It's saying like ceasefire against our Iraqi folks, against Hezbollah, etc. Termination of all resolutions of the IAEA, Board of Governors and the UN Security Council and approval of all commitments in an official UN resolution. We have heard that they want some guarantees, whether it's the UN or some other idea. And I don't think the Board of Peace counts. Okay. Some promises that you're going to actually live up to what you're saying.

But really, in the end, they don't really trust any promises. It's really the threat of their own ability to defend themselves that they think is. going to lock this thing in place. Okay. Now, we have Lindsay Graham's reaction posted on X last night, as everyone was kind of trying to understand what was going on. This is around 7.26 p.m. Like everyone, he said, I hope we can end the reign of terror of the Iranian regime through diplomacy. We must remember the strait of Hormuz was attacked by Iran after the start of the war, destroying freedom of navigation. Going forward, it is imperative Iran is not rewarded for this hostile act against the world. As for the 10-point proposal, the end of the war, I look forward to reviewing it

at the appropriate time and its submission to Congress for a vote, like we did with the Obama and JCPOA, I want to reaffirm that from my point of view, every ounce of the approximately 900 pounds of highly enriched uranium has to be controlled by the U.S. and removed from Iran to prevent them in the future from having a dirty bomb or returning to the enrichment business, the Libyan model, for lack of a better phrase that Lindsay Graham said. Ryan Trump said also, we read this post just minutes ago about the... the nuclear dust, however he phrased it. It sounds like he's taking that a bit from not Lindsey Graham himself,

but that he's trying to give scraps to the Lindsay Graham's who are furious. I'm sure, internally furious with all this. Graham posted shortly after that, just a couple of hours after that. He said, as I stated before, I prefer diplomacy if it leads to the right outcome regarding the Iranian terrorist regime. At this early stage, I am extremely cautious. regarding what is fact versus fiction or misrepresentation. Lindsay Graham preferring diplomacy.

Incredible. Fact versus fiction. I think we're going with fiction on that one. Let's just observe that Lindsay Graham confronted with the prospect of peace demands congressional involvement. War, have at it, man. Whatever. Now, I covered Obama's JCPOA. that's the Iran nuclear deal

and he's being a little bit misleading when he describes how it went to Congress it was not submitted to Congress for approval it was submitted for a vote of disapproval and that that's key because to block something in the Senate you only need 41 votes and JCPOA got 42 votes

and that's why it was able to go through and it did not get enough votes in the House to block it either. And so, okay, you can go ahead, put this ceasefire deal before the Senate and the House if you want, but understand that it will be under the same terms. Vote of disapproval, which means you only need 41 senators. And if you get Rand Paul and 40 Democrats, there are 47 of them, although if you want to count Fetterman, 46 of them, 46 plus Rand Paul, you should be good. And maybe a couple other Republicans who would, you know, support a peace deal at this point. So go ahead. Send it to Congress if you want. But let's understand it's going under the same terms as the one before.

And let's put the Israeli response up on the screen as well. This is the next element. Based on political echelon directives, the defense army has ceased fire in the battle with Iran and remains in a high state of defensive alert ready to respond to any breach. In Lebanon, the defense army continues combat and ground operations against the terrorist Hezbollah. What I like is how they say they have ceased fire in the battle of Iran, and then you scroll down, and they say they're attacking Iran. This is from the IDF. Yeah, same post.

The defense army has ceased fire in the battle with Iran and remains in a high state of defense. It's essential production infrastructure belonging to the Iranian regime. was targeted in several areas inside Iran. Wait a minute. What? I thought you said it ceased fire. As part of these airstrikes, Air Force fighter jets attacked dozens of launch sites, which led to the thwarting of a broader missile barrage that was directed toward the state of Israel. So this reminds us, reminds everybody of the end of the 12-day war, where Trump announced a ceasefire. Yes. And Netanyahu launched another set of sorties to bomb Iran. And Trump had to tweet out.

or truth out, turn the planes around. Right. He's going to have to do that again. Because clearly saying that the war is over, and we're seizing fire, is not getting through to Israel. Well, it's kind of interesting there how they're distinguishing between Iran and Hezbollah, or attempting to distinguish between Iran and Hezbollah. I just love this line.

In addition, central production infrastructure belonging to the Iranian regime was targeted in several areas inside Iran. In the same statement where they say they've stopped bombing, Yeah. It was just targeted with bombs, not bombs. What do you guys, you think we're all idiots? Well, and again, their entire argument about the fight against Hezbollah is predicated on the idea that's proxy of Iran. Mm-hmm.

Right. That's right. There's that, too. Is it or isn't it? Yeah. Right. Well, let's now bring your colleague Jeremy Skehill from DropSight News into the conversation. Both of you have been reporting on this very closely.

Jeremy's negotiations reporting has been absolutely critical to understanding what's going on. Yeah. So we're very lucky to have him here with us today. Let's bring him in. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit, Stick Season, and one of the biggest voices in music today.

Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapid success, his struggles with mental health and body image, and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, your life must be so sick. Man, you have no clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of.

I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Someone says that I suck. I'm like, I suck.

Getting to talk about this is not common for me. Right now I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHAR radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lori Siegel, and I'm mostly human. I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future. This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Alman.

I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world. From power to parenthood. Kids, teenagers, I think they won't need a lot of guardrails around AI. such a powerful and such a new thing. From addiction to acceleration. The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop,

even if you did a lot of redistribution. We have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others. And it's a multiplayer game. What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility?

Find out I'm mostly human. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to mostly human. on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much

that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl,

Leveh, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin. You related to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny.

Share each day with me each night, each morning. Say you love me. You know I... So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Plythe. playing along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To talk through how we got here and where we're going, joined by my drop site colleague Jeremy Skahill. Jeremy, thanks for taking some time this morning.

Really appreciate it. Thank you. All right, so this 10-point plan, where did this come from? And what is your sense of how we got from the brink of Armageddon to Trump saying, I've gotten this 10-point plan, world peace is what he has. now saying is upon us. Yeah, I mean, I think we need to set aside any of the representations that Trump is making publicly right now. I mean, the idea that he mentioned the Iranian 10-point plan and said that it was a solid basis, in other words, framework for the beginning of real negotiations,

was what allowed the Iranians to claim that Trump had effectively capitulated to their demands. it's important to emphasize that there's been a lot of reporting and claims about what is in this 10-point plan. And while it's true that Iran has revealed some of it to us and other news organizations, they have not publicly released the 10-point plan. What we know is contained in it because the Iranians have confirmed this to us and others, is that they want any agreement to be effectively a non-aggression pact, where the United States is publicly agreeing, and they want a UN Security Council resolution to this effect, that this era of periodic war against Iran by the United States and Israel is over.

They want the agreement to apply to what they call all fronts of resistance, meaning Lebanon, Palestine, Iran, as well as Iraq. There's also some question of whether it would apply to Ansar al-La, also known as the Houthis in Yemen. The Iranians want a lifting of all sanctions. They want compensation for the damage that has been done by the U.S. and Israeli bombing campaigns and perhaps most significant to the U.S. discourse and Trump's obsessive focus on the Strait of Hormuz, Iran is stating that they are going to maintain the control that they had

over the Strait of Hormuz prior to the start of this war. There's other reports that it includes, you know, the U.S. withdrawing all military bases and U.S. personnel from the Middle East. I haven't gotten any confirmation that that's actually in the 10-point plan. Also, the Iranians have told me that they have made some representations on the issue of nuclear enrichment, but I would be cautious in co-signing the legitimacy of any of the details that are being leaked in the media right now. What I'm told by Iranians is that this is an incredibly sensitive issue, that it is linked to sanctions relief and the non-aggression pact, and that Iran is not going to just be coming out and publicly stating its position. So in short, what I would say is that Iran was

rejecting this temporary ceasefire proposal that Trump had been floating with a very thin veneer that it was the Pakistanis that came up with this idea. Trump's been desperate for an off-ramp. The Iranians had prior to yesterday, and I think it remains their belief or their most likely scenario, was that Trump just wants a pause and that eventually he and Israel intend to resume bombing Iran, as they've done twice in the past year when they claim to be negotiating. But from the Iranian perspective, when Trump then said, I'm going to publicly announce and reference this 10-point plan, that was sort of the trigger for the Iranian political and military echelons to say, we're not declaring that the war is over. But if the U.S. publicly states that that that's the basis for negotiations and the U.S. states that it is going to cease its fire against Iran, that we will, in the words of Abbasarachi, the Iranian foreign minister, suspend our defensive operations. But Iran is saying that it has its trigger remaining on the finger, its finger remaining on the trigger.

There's a question of whether the Israelis are actually going to continue their massive bombing and ground operations in Lebanon. Iran has said that that could throw the entire deal into jeopardy. And so, you know, it's a very fragile situation. But the Iranians, of course, are declaring a victory. Trump is declaring a victory. Trump's track record is that he just systematically lies about being in negotiations with Iran. The Iranians recognize they're taking a gamble, which is why they're limiting it, the scope of this and saying that they remain ready to continue what they call their defensive operations. Now, how critical is the Strait of Hormuz? We still don't actually know what's going to happen, really, with the Strait of Hormuz.

How critical is a point of leverage is that right now to the Iranians? I think that what, you know, perhaps the top-level headline in terms of the geopolitical realities of this is that Iran put on full display in front of the world, how much economic damage and global. panic it can cause. By simply just, they never closed formally the Strait of Hormuz. They just said that it's only open to ships that coordinate with the Iranian state. But, you know, Iran's most potent weapon for certain in this war was twofold. One was that they repeatedly gave lie to Trump and Netanyahu's proclamations that the missile program had been, you know, obliterated, that their launchers had been obliterated, that their drone

program had been obliterated. Iran continued to strike, even when Pete Hgg-Seth would. say basically they're finished and they've been bombed back to the Stone Ages in terms of their military capacity. Well, Jeremy, can I just add right there, Hegsseth, literally within the last couple of minutes, he's just, he's giving a briefing right now. And he said, quote, Iran begged for the ceasefire. And we all know it. Yeah, I mean, you know, this is, you know, obviously none of us are sitting there behind the scenes.

But I think it's pretty, you know, it's pretty clear that it was Trump and his administration that were desperate for an agreement. You know, we've talked about this on the show before. It was Steve Whitkoff who was obsessively texting the Iranian foreign minister and others. The Iranians said at the beginning that they weren't going to go for some kind of a short-term deal that they first needed to ensure that they had represented, that they're able to strike back ferociously. I really think that that is pure propaganda. I think that it was Trump desperate for either a pause or an off-ramp. The Israelis are also in a pretty serious situation.

in terms of their ability to stop Iran's ballistic missiles. Trump is in big trouble politically. The U.S. economy and the global economy is in big trouble. The Gulf states, the GCC, they have never in their histories been in a greater state of panic over the extent of damage that Iran has been able to cause just by primarily hitting American military bases. And I think at the end of the day, we'll hear eventually that those countries, the GCC countries, these Arab countries were absolutely irate at this and begging Trump because they felt like he just left

them to be completely shellacked by Iran and they had been given assurances that none of this was going to happen despite the fact that the Iranian said it was going to. But to directly answer your question, Emily, on the Strait of Hormuz, what Abbasarachi said last night was that Iran is going to maintain control of it over these two weeks and in perpetuity and that any movement through the Strait is going to have to be coordinated with the Iranian military. So, you know, I don't, I don't think that the, that what Trump is announcing and is sort of projecting is what his base seems to think it is. Trump is not in control of the Strait of Hormuz, and that's probably the most potent weapon that Iran has deployed in this was showing that they could actually wreak

absolute global economic havoc. It feels like the, the reformist camp in Iran, which has been arguing, you know, for decades, for engagement with the United States, for diplomacy, for we're going to work through these sanctions, this nuclear deal, and so on and so forth, it seems like they've been pretty thoroughly repudiated internally. By the way, this has gone, because you've had the hardliners have been saying, no, you know, the only thing the United States and Israel understand is, is force and raw power. And now 40 days of demonstrating force and raw power has gotten them more than the kind of reformists and the diplomats have been able to yet for decades, but I'm wondering, you know, how they transition then to the period of diplomacy,

or are they there yet? Or do they believe, are they still in a posture that, no, this is actually probably another faint by the United States? So if it's kind of reconfigured Iranian politics, does that shape how they respond to these negotiations differently than they would have responded all times previously? I mean, I understand, and there isn't a lot of reporting on this yet, but I suspect that it's going to become a more prominent part of the story. My understanding is that China actually quietly played a quite significant role, particularly in its dealings with the Iranians. I had been told many weeks ago that China had been a quiet but extremely active player in this.

And so I would look for some stories to start emerging about the role that China played in this deal. But I think you're right to an extent, you know, when an Iranian official I spoke to last night, said that they don't take any of Trump's actual words at face value, and that their working assumption is that this is some kind of a ploy or a trick. But that they calculate that because Trump has come out and said that he accepts the 10-point plan from Iran as a basis, a reasonable basis for discussions, that because of their relationships with China, with Pakistan, with other countries that have been Oman, that have been serving in a mediator role, that the Iranians are are willing to reciprocate if the U.S. stops bombing.

It's very similar to the agreement that the United States made with Ansar ala in Yemen. You know, it's Trump portrayed it as a double-sided ceasefire, but the Iranians have portrayed this as Trump essentially agreeing to the framework that the Iranians have demanded from the third day of the war and that they're going to watch and see, but that their finger remains on the trigger. The big risk that I'm told by Iranians is that this is then used like it's been twice before in the past year to give cover for the planning of a massive bombing campaign or some kind of attempted special operations deployment inside of Iran or that it's just going to be used as a

temporary pause to rearm Israel so that it can defend more robustly against ballistic missile attacks and to bring more U.S. firepower into the region. Trump has completely made a mockery of the legitimacy of the word of the United States in an unprecedented way in the, you know, 250 years of the country, we have never had a president that so brazenly and openly and blatantly lies about the United States negotiating and then uses the full force of the U.S. military in a clandestine or, you know, covert operation that is barely covert or clandestine because he's openly doing it. Another Heggseth quote here from the briefing.

You see, had Iran refused our terms, the next targets would have been their power plants, bridges, and oil and energy infrastructure, targets they could not defend and could not realistically rebuild. We were locked and loaded. President Trump had the power to cripple Iran's entire economy in minutes, but he chose mercy. Response to that, Jeremy. I mean, this is complete nonsense. Look what happened in the past 48 hours in Iran. You had Iranians of various political stripes coming out and saying that they were going to serve as human shields around the energy infrastructure of Iran gathering in the many, many thousands around sites that Trump said that he was going to bomb. At the same time, you had the IRGC laying out maps of exactly what they were going

to bomb in the GCC Arab countries and in Israel as well. So I really do think that this was a case of Trump blinking first. I didn't hear or get any sense that the Iranians were in a state of panic about this. They were resigned to the idea that Trump may well go forward and try to do this, they understood that that was a possibility. And I never once got a sense talking to Iranian officials that they were in a panic about it. I think they were of the mindset that if that's our fate, it's our fate, but we're going to continue to fight the United States. So, you know, Heggsath has been bloviating and engaging in some kind of really warped Christian nationalist rhetoric to wrap this whole thing up. But underpinning it all has been demonstrable lies. Every time they tell us Iran has

been wiped out, Iran intensifies its attacks. The scale of damage that Iran had a capacity to inflict if the United States began widely bombing its energy infrastructure would have dwarfed the scale of what we're seeing in the Strait of Hormuz in terms of the damage it did to all of those Gulf Arab countries that Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, have cultivated deep financial relationships with. And I think Trump blinked here, but I would not put it past him to be plotting with Netanyahu who a return to massive bombing and using this as just a pause to rearm. And last question, do you have a sense of how the Iranians view Israel's ongoing role in this? Like, do they believe that Israel is going to abide by the ceasefire?

Are they going to stop hitting Israel if Israel is continuing to hit Lebanon? I mean, this is, you know, I was texting with a source this morning. I mean, I do think that the Iranians take very seriously the statement that the Israelis, made early this morning that they were not going to cease their fire in Lebanon. My guess would be that Trump's going to have to intervene to some extent. But the Israelis have a PhD in violating every single so-called ceasefire that they've ever signed, specifically in Lebanon, where there was a ceasefire for more than a year, where the Israelis just repeatedly bombed and bombed and bombed. So I think that's one flashpoint that could call into question the overarching ceasefire

deal, if you want to call it that over the next two weeks. But I think the Iranians have a sense that they're in a long war with Israel. And right now they're focused on what kind of agreement Trump may or may not be willing to engage in. I do have the sense that the Iranians are fully prepared to resume a full-scale war. And I don't think they want it. But I think the U.S. has really underestimated Iran's capacity. And I think that the U.S. has really cartoonized Iranian society, the political diversity that exists in Iranian society, and the extent to which it's a real story that Iranians of various political stripes, including those opposed to the government, have come out in opposition to this bombing. Those aren't minor issues, and I think that,

you know, the effect of this war in a broader sense, and this was reflected in the comments posted this morning by Pasechkin, the president of Iran, where he said that going forward, we have to try to function and operate as one nation. Yes, Iran engages in propaganda like all other nations, but I think there's some significant legitimacy to the idea that Iranians were overwhelmingly opposed to what the U.S. and Israel were doing, and they understand that as long as Israel operates with nuclear weapons and has the full backing of the U.S. to wage these kinds of wars, that it's just a temporary pause regardless of whatever agreement gets signed in terms of the war against Israel. And that's my final question, Jeremy, is Donald Trump right now is saying he is determined Iran has gone through a regime change.

Obviously, the person at the very top has changed. But what is your response to the claim that actually the regime itself has been changed by this 40-day, 38-day, whatever it's been, long war? I think this is part of the combination of ignorance and arrogance that we've seen when U.S. officials, and it's not just Trump. You hear this from the think tank crowd, the people paid to think by the makers of tanks, where they really oversimplify Iran's system. They often talk, you know, Trump and others, oh, for 47 years the Iranians have been doing this. Well, for 47 years, Iran has been building institutions knowing that the most powerful country in the world wanted to change its regime.

and wipe out its government and eliminate its effective sovereignty. So what I would say is I think these are greatly exaggerated claims. Yes, it's true that some of the more flexible known public figures have been assassinated. I think it is true that to some degree, the IRGC, the lesson it's learned from the past two and a half years has been that it was a mistake not to pursue a nuclear weapon, that it was a mistake to choreograph its retaliatory strikes, since the Gaza genocide began, rather than actually smacking hard as they've done since February 28th. But I don't think there's been an actual change of regime.

I think this is wishful thinking and propaganda. I think Iran's institutions have endured. And in asymmetric warfare, the less powerful, less mighty in terms of use of force side in it, wins by not losing. And so, you know, I think this is a microcosmic situation that has some essence of Vietnam Afghanistan. Well, Jeremy, correspondent for DropSight News, my colleague over there, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

Thank you guys. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit stick season and one of the biggest voices in music today. Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapid success,

his struggles with mental health and body image and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, your life must be so sick. Man, you have no clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, yeah, I'm good.

Someone says that I suck. I'm like, I suck. Getting to talk about this, it's not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lori Siegel, and I'm mostly human. I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future. This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO, Sam Alman.

I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world. From power to parenthood. Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI. This is such a powerful and such a new thing. From addiction to acceleration. The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop. Even if you did a lot of redistribution, you know, we have a deep desire to excel and

be competitive and gain status and be useful to others. And it's a multiplayer game. What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility. Find out on Mostly Human. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leveh, Mavis Staples,

Remy Wolfe, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin. You related to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny. Share each day with me each night. Each morning say you love me.

You know I... So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just as we're sitting here, Ryan, the Pentagon is doing a briefing this morning, one of those early 8 a.m. briefings

with Dan Cain, Chairman of the Joy Chief of Staff and Secretary of War Pete Hagseth, responding to the wild events, the roller coaster of the last 13 or so hours. Here's a little bit from Secretary of War Hegseth just moments ago. Other presidents marked time and kicked the can down the road. President Trump made history. From the strike that took out Qasem Soleimani to tearing up the disastrous Obama-Iran deal to the precision campaign that obliterated Iran's nuclear sites in Operation Midnight Hammer,

to the decisive military victory we just achieved in Operation Epic Fury, this commander-in-chief. President Trump forged this moment. Iran begged for this ceasefire, and we all know it. But they can no longer build missiles, build rockets, build launchers, or build UAVs. Their factories have been raised to the ground. Iran begged for the ceasefire, we're being told now. And actually, as I was watching this news roll in,

I wanted to go back to White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitts, long post that people may remember. I remember we covered this at the time. This back on March 2nd, clearly there was a lot of frustration in the White House with people on the right and in general criticizing the president for not having a clear objective

because what we were hearing from everyone was all over the place. I mean, at this point, even the most die-hard MAGIS supporter would have to agree. There was mixed messaging. The first still continues out the entire war, but in the first several days, it was absolutely all over the place. So Caroline Levick came out with a post where she said, President Trump released a statement, laying out clear objectives the American people for Operation Epic Fury. Let me reiterate them. Destroy the Iranian regime's missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground.

Annihilate the Iranian regime's navy. Ensure the regime's terrorist proxies can no longer destabilize the region. Stop them from making and using IEDs or roadside bombs. guarantee that Iran can never obtain a nuclear weapon. Preventing this radical regime and its terrorist leaders from threatening America and our core national security interests is a clear-eyed and necessary objective than went on to say the terrorist Iranian regime would not say yes to peace. Their brutal attacks and threats will finally end under President Trump.

Contrasting their clearest version, their clearest iteration of what the objectives were just several days into the war, Hexeth right now saying the Iranians begged begged for what just happened in the last 12 or so hours, Ryan. It's remarkable. I mean, it's not surprising, I don't think, but it's just remarkable how the PR efforts to clean all of this up are going to be detached from the reality. Yeah, when you go into, and we'll talk about this in the next segment

when we talk about this New New York Times article on Netanyahu, when you go into the war with completely flawed assumptions about how it will unfold, And then it unfolds completely differently than you expected. Regime change. That is the same. Regime change, they're not going to be able to close to straight up her moves. They're not going to be able to attack the Gulf allies. All of that turns out to be untrue.

Then, yeah, you're going to be stuck then just trying to, like, put overwhelming force on Iran. And at some point, you come up against your own physical limits of how much you can bomb. And the moral limits of how much you can get away. with destruction of civilian infrastructure and civilians themselves, and that gets us to this really fascinating response from the Iranian public. You know, we were told that the Iranian public

is ready to overthrow the regime and they just need a little bit of help. Yeah, Kurds were coming in. The Kurds were coming in. The students are going to all rise up. Instead, we bomb the universities. But if we can roll B1 here, this is one of the more popular musicians

in Iran, Ali Ghasmari, who has previously clashed significantly with the Iranian regime, that he got in a bunch of trouble because he brought some women without head coverings up on stage and otherwise has been, he's the kind of person who's obviously going to be critical of a conservative government, very extremely conservative government like the one in Iran. He positioned himself outside of the power plant, saying that if you're going to plunge my people into darkness, you're going to take me with them. And then thousands of people at various power plants showed up and stood on bridges and outside of power plants saying, if you're going to take this bridge out, you're going to take us out with it, which to me was a

an amount of courage and amount of confidence in Trump's humanity that I don't think I have. I was like, oh God, I don't think this is going to stop Trump. This alone. Now, he didn't do it. He ended up taking the deal that was on the table. I'm glad that they weren't killed. The Iranian said, you know, they were going to be down there basically live streaming. And saying, like, if you're really going to do this,

you're going to have to kill us. And I just don't think that that was how Netanyahu explained to Trump the Iranian people would respond. Yeah. Clearly it wasn't. Yeah. We'll get to that. And then that's the plus the, plus the Joint Chiefs guy saying the other day, every Iranian with a gun was shooting at us when we were trying to rescue our down to airmen. Yeah. It's like, wait a minute. I thought they were, you were liberating them and they'd be welcoming you. Weird. Well, Ryan, this countdown clock on Israeli TV went right down to the wire. Speaking of humanity, let's move into inhumanity.

Was this Channel 13? Over in Israel. Yeah, like a New Year's countdown clock. Right. Oh, man, I wonder we should find out how it was at the 90-minute mark when they were, like, was there a giddiness and then just a... Deflation? I mean, the meltdown on...

on Israeli Twitter and pro-Israel, U.S. Twitter, has been something to behold, that's for sure. Well, actually, speaking of what's happened internally in Iran, let's go ahead and put now B5 on the screen. This is a video of Iranian Jews looking at the synagogue in Tehran that had been bombed on Passover. Ryan, complete rubble. There are like 100 synagogues in, well, I guess there were 100 synagogues in Iran? Like, how are they, like, insane? Yeah, if you're not, if you're listening to this, just rabbis walking through complete rubble in Tehran, a glimpse inside. I mean, Tehran is a...

Who knows how old that synagogue is? That's a good point as well. Tehran is a massive city. Yeah, 10 million plus people. Just utter destruction to the synagogue and to many other places in the city, obviously. The other thing I wanted to mention, we mentioned a lot of, I mean, just not getting a lot of attention in Western media at all, but looking at potentially, according to human rights groups, like 1,600 civilian deaths, 244 children in Iran since the beginning of the war. Ryan, the element of this that we haven't even discussed is to what extent looking at the video of the human chain and the like, all of the things. all of this then proves the point the mullahs we're making that the United States will stop at nothing.

You have the president of the United States saying he's going to destroy the entire civilization. We don't even need to bring up the extent of that rhetoric or go back into it because everyone is totally familiar with it and how unhinged it was. That seems like it has a pretty good chance of rallying Iranians around the IRGC at a level that they weren't even before the war began. The name that the Iranian government had for us was the great Satan. Tucker Carlson basically embraced that name for Trump himself in his podcast was yesterday or the day before, calling him effectively some version of Antichrist. It was, yeah, we have certainly done ourselves no favors. But hopefully, you know, you heard from a.

Iranian leaders the entire time, that they would say the same thing that we say about their leadership. They would say we know that the American government does not represent the American people. We know the American people voted to end the endless wars. We know the American people voted for America first, not to be dragged into war by Israel. So you kept hearing that from Iranian leaders. So that's at least positive, that the Iranian people and the American people at least finally identify with each other that neither of us want these wars. Yet here we are. So and hopefully, you know, collectively, we can get to a place where we're not doing it. Well, yeah, I mean,

when the war started, it's not as though the majority of the country was behind the IRGC, whether or not Netanyahu, I mean, whatever what Netanyahu was telling our president, we're going to get to that in just a moment. It's not as though the entire country was behind the IRC. It was genuinely divided. and people in Iran genuinely were divided. I just think there's a serious question on the table now, to what extent support may have increased for the more radical leadership in Iran? Hugely.

Again, you have people say, the United States wants to wipe you off the map, take out the entire civilization, and the president of the United States comes out and says an entire civilization will end. Children are killed. Yeah, what I hate, yeah, I'm one of these peacenicks. If I were Iranian, I'd be in that reformer camps.

Let's do diplomacy. Let's do engage. You're a dirty hippie. Let's talk to this term. I'm a dirty hippie. Like, just objectively speaking, the dirty hippies had their legs cut out from under them. And the people arguing that force and violence was a more effective path towards dignity, sovereignty, and peace on the other side, those folks are being validated. And people like me are being invalidated. And that sucks, because the lesson that people are going to learn from this is that in this world,

violence actually is more likely to get you where you need to go. But it begets violence. It always begets more violence. That's one of the points that Tucker was making. As the hardliners would argue, no, it was actually appeasement. It was actually the diplomacy. The attempt to reach peace betrayed weakness then to the U.S. and Israel and U.S. and Israel would then just attack them constantly. I mean, I don't want that to be true. But so far, it's not looking good for my camp, looking good for the hardliner camp. But the long term is not looking good for anyone. No, that's very true also.

Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than No Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1, including the story, of the woman who last participated in a Formula One race weekend, the recent uptick in F1 romance novels, and plenty of mishap scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lori Siegel, and this is mostly human, a tech podcast through a human lens. This week, an interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear our technology. tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world. An in-depth conversation with a man who's shaping our future. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to mostly human on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit stick season and one of the biggest voices in music today.

Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be. this thing that I was ashamed of. Getting to talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human.