Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 5/20/24: Iran President Killed In Helicopter Crash, ICC Arrest Warrants For Israel And Hamas, GOP Pushes To Defund US Military Over Israel Arms Holdup, Biden Brazen Oct 7 Lie At Morehouse

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss Iran's President killed in helicopter crash, ICC issues arrest warrants for Israel and Hamas leaders, Republicans push to defund US military over Israel arms holdup, Biden brazen Oct 7 lie at Morehouse commencement.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election. We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Massive, massive breaking news this morning. First of all, the Iranian president is dead after a helicopter crash in a mountainous region.

We're going to have Dr. Trita Parsi on to talk about that and what the implications are, which, of course, are massive. That is not the only massive breaking news we have this morning, though. The International Criminal Court prosecutor has issued an application for arrest warrants against Bibi Netanyahu, Yoav Galant, along with three top Hamas leaders. We have that applications and the crimes that he alleges. There are reasonable grounds to believe that these individuals were involved in committing. So we'll break that down for you as well. The same time, we've got lots of domestic political news. President Biden spoke at the Morehouse commencement yesterday, and there were some protests, some notable words, some notable lies from the commander in chief. So we'll break that down for you. We're also getting some stunning economic numbers that really explain a whole lot about why people are not

feeling Bidenomics in particular. And after Emily brought you the breaking news over the weekend of that horrifying video that was released of Diddy allegedly beating R&B singer Cassie in a hotel hall. I mean, just this video was absolutely horrific. He has issued a response and an apology. So we'll show you that. And also, she has now issued a reply to his purported apology. So there is a whole lot to get to this morning, not to mention soccer. We have our own big news with regards to breaking points, which is for all of you premium subscribers. We have moved the show to locals.

Your subscription is now on locals, and we are also now cross-posting the show on Rumble. So it's still on all of the platforms you guys know and love. Yes. But it's also going to be on Rumble, and we'll be doing a little bit of exclusive content over there on Rumble as well. Exactly right. Thank you very much, Crystal. Now, for those who have been wondering, we have some questions. Actually, the transition has been very smooth. We did so much work behind the scenes to make sure that it was basically one click. You can log into your subscription. You don't have to re-enter your password. You don't have

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ability to have the video on Locals, comments section, your premium subscription, everything will be there. And yeah, it has some cool features. We really like it. As Crystal said, we'll have some exclusive content on Rumble once a week or so, so you guys can look out for some of that. But we're just adding things here at Breaking Points. And like we said, we did a very long video just about why we're doing this on the heels of our three-year anniversary. So please go and check that out if you're interested. Yeah. Two big takeaways. Premium subscribers, check your email. Check your email, both for instructions on how to switch over to locals, which so far the feedback has been incredible

and people are loving it and really amazed by the ease of transition. Shout out to Griffin for making that happen. Check your email. And if you have any problems at all, any questions, whatever, support at locals.com. Part of the deal and part of why we switched over is concierge support service to make sure you guys are getting what you need. They have a live chat and everything. It is really nice. Well, the news gods, whenever it rains, I guess it really pours. So what we have over here is a shocking development. The president of Iran has now been confirmed dead after a helicopter incident. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. This is the first footage that has actually emerged from, it appears, a helicopter crash

that happened amidst a torrential storm. The storm conditions are absolutely shocking. We do, however, have on standby our friend of the show, Dr. Trita Parsi of the Quincy Institute. He's going to help us break down what exactly all of this means. Good to see you, sir. Thank you so much for joining us last minute. Thank you for having me. All right. So, Dr. Parsi, we brought everybody just the images now so far. So I'm going to go ahead and put this up there on the screen. This is from the helicopter of what we have seen as well of the actual footage, the first pictures that were coming out from the crash. Can you just tell us a little bit about what we know and then, more importantly, took the president from his meeting with the president of Azerbaijan on its way back to Tehran was flying over this very mountainous and inaccessible area in northwestern Iran, and it crashed. It crashed, and as it's now clear, both the foreign minister,

as well as the president and several others on that plane, passed away. This is, of course, a huge event in Iran, and it's going to have very significant implications for the Iranian government. First of all, they're now going to have to have elections within the next 50 days. And it's coming at a time when the regime is extremely unpopular. The population has, by and large, completely lost faith in the idea that change can come through the ballot box. There were parliamentary elections held just a week or two ago, and the average, the national participation rate was around 42%, but in the capital of Tehran, only 7% participated in the elections. And for a government that for such a long time has viewed high participation rates as a sign of its legitimacy, as an injection

of legitimacy into the system. We're talking about presidential elections with participation rates as high as 80 percent, which of course would be unheard of in the United States. Now it's below the American standard. And now they're going to have to try to muster and mobilize voters to participate within 50 days. And the question then is, are they going to do what they have done before, which is to essentially eliminate all candidates that are not hardliners, which is part of the reason why people stopped participating in the elections. It actually wasn't much of an election, but they did so because they wanted to consolidate their power

and they wanted to particularly do so at this very, very sensitive junction because the current Supreme Leader, who's 85 years old, is likely to pass within the next couple of years, and they want to make sure that the next supreme leader is also a hardline conservative. To do that, they need to consolidate all levels of power, all institutions of power in their own hands during this period. But that is coming at the expense of a degree of support or at least acceptance of the regime from the population. And I believe amongst the larger population that there still are ways in which they can improve their lines through participating in the system. That is now to a

large extent been lost. And the question is, are they going to put up another series of conservatives for people to choose from and risk a very, very low participation? Or will they actually allow it to be real elections with a much broader base set of candidates, which could increase participation, but also then would likely come at the expense of the conservatives controlling all institutions of power in the world? So the question is, will there be a real choice or a feeble illusion of a choice? I wanted to ask you, Dr. Parsi-Colvin, if we could put A5 up on the screen. We've all seen these images of the incredibly difficult weather conditions, which are an important part of the context, obviously, of this fatal helicopter crash. Nevertheless, especially coming as it does

right now at a peaking moment of tension between Israel and Iran, there are going to be questions about potential foul play. Do you see any indications of that? And do you suspect that there will be those in Iranian society who suspect that this may have been not just a terrible tragedy, but that some sort of foul play was involved here? There's no evidence at this point that there has been any foul play. But in a society that is so mistrusting of the media, which actually is somewhat similar to the U.S. society at this point, in which conspiracy theories abound and which there is massive distrust of the government as a whole, there is inevitably

going to be people who will believe that something else may have happened. I think the most convincing reason as to why that didn't, that no foul play actually was taking place is just the images that you showed. It was clearly very, very bad weather conditions that not only caused the crash of the helicopter, but actually also took more than 12 hours for them to be able to find the plane because of these weather conditions. But nevertheless, because of those different factors that I mentioned, there will be a belief amongst many that perhaps something else also was at play here, whether that was an internal factor because of the very stiff rivalries that exist within the regime, particularly mindful of the secession for the supreme leader position,

or whether it has something to do with the Israelis, given the very intense conflict between the Iranians and the Israelis, that now again must have gone back into the shadows after this exchange of fire. And I find it quite fascinating that the message from the government is very clearly that this was an accident. They are not blaming directly Israel or external powers. At best, they're saying that this is the fault of U.S. sanctions because U.S. sanctions is a key reason as to why the Iranians don't have spare parts for their helicopters and airplanes. And I think that is precisely because they want to stop any rumors that would suggest that this was actually a result of foul play, whether that was external,

which would be embarrassing for them to admit that perhaps the Israelis had the capacity of killing their president and foreign minister, or whether it's internal because they don't want to see the rivalry for the secession turning into a secession crisis. Got it. I mean, nonetheless, this is going to open a major power vacuum. So let's put A6, please, up on the screen. This is from the Financial Times. They just talk and give a broader overview of who pulls the strings of power in Iran. It can be a bit of a Byzantine system for those of us here to try and to understand the various branches of government. Can you just give us some insight, as you said, as to how and what the pressures are inside the regime

for who will be qualified, disqualified, and what the stakes are for who will take this job next? So you do have a very complex system that is deliberately non-transparent. The Iranians do not want the outside world to fully understand how the system works because they believe that it gives them a degree of protection. And this is largely because of the fact

that Iran was not colonized by the Brits, but the British and the Russians were very adept at playing the Iranian political system in the 1800s, much to Iran's detriment. So one of the reactions to that is to actually try to have a system that is inexplicable to certain parts to the outside world because they believe it protects them from foreign intervention and manipulation. But what we can say is that the supreme leader, of course, is the most powerful person within that system, but he is not supreme. from foreign intervention and manipulation. But what we can say is that the Supreme Leader, of course, is the most powerful person within that system, but he is not supreme despite of

his title. He cannot rule in any way, shape, or form he wants because power is nevertheless dispersed throughout the system. In most cases, he's essentially the arbiter. He definitely has his tilt of his own, but he's been in very intense power struggles with previous presidents. Part of the reason why there was the preference for Raisi as president and why we saw this manipulation to ensure that he would get elected was precisely because he was viewed as being so pliant and that it would put to an end the power struggle between the president and the Supreme Leader. In Washington, there has been a tendency to overplay the role of the president and the supreme leader. In Washington, there has been a tendency to overplay the role of the president when the president is doing things that we find problematic. So we put

a lot of attention to Ahmadinejad and his rhetoric and viewed him as being the person who was actually setting policy. But when you have presidents like Rouhani, who was more conciliatory than the argument in Washington tended to be that presidents don't matter. So it's been rather a self-serving way of looking at it. But reality is they do matter depending on their personalities. And in the case of Raisi, he mattered less precisely because he took his job as being one that would essentially be in line with the supreme leader, not challenge, and essentially be very pliant to him. What do you see as the global risks of this now additional layer of chaos on top of many other layers of chaos that we're seeing globally? And just to remind people, obviously, of the context here, we just had these extraordinary exchanges where Israel first attacks an Iranian

diplomatic building in Damascus, assassinating top military leader there. Then you have Iran respond in a way that was both calculated and premeditated and sort of preannounced in a way that made it possible to shoot down the Iranian attack. Nevertheless, it was quite an extensive barrage aimed at Israel. Now we're in this period of question mark of what happens next? Is there a further escalation? So help us understand with all of that context, what you see as the major risks and things to be concerned about here. We're not yet at the stage in which we can say that there's going to be chaos in Iran. There's going to be challenges and problems that the regime will be facing with this upcoming election, but we're not at the stage of chaos or instability. However, we may end up in a scenario

in which the government will be somewhat debilitated and will have to focus more on its domestic scene rather than on foreign policy. That means that a lot of different things will go on an indirect negotiation between the United States and Iran, put pressure on Iraqi and Syrian militias that the Iranians are supporting. They put pressure on them to seize their attacks against U.S. troops. As you know, once the Israelis started bombing Gaza, these militias started attacking U.S. troops and bases as a way of pressuring the U.S. to pressure Israel for a ceasefire. After three American soldiers got killed in Jordan, the Biden administration started bombing quite extensively these different militias while also negotiating with Iran and the

Iranians pulled them back. A question I have is whether a debilitating situation in Iran could actually lead to a situation in which Iran's control over these militias will weaken. And mindful of the fact that many of them are more eager to take on the U.S. than the Iranians are, we may end up seeing them restarting their type of a situation will likely continue and will blow up again as long as you have the war in Gaza continue with no ceasefire. And it will come at a very bad time for the Biden administration. or narrative what you just said is. You basically are indicating Iran is a moderating influence on these militias, which is the opposite of the, you know, presentation we typically see in the American press. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution.

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I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month, and we need to talk. It's tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Yeah. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand

what that type of music is. And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the goat. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important. And that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a good point, though, to pivot, and we want to get your reaction to other major breaking news this morning.

Well, we know you have just a few more minutes of time with us. The International Criminal Court prosecutor, Kareem Khan, has announced that he has requested arrest warrants against Prime Minister of Israel, Bibi Netanyahu, as well as Israel's defense minister, Yoav Galant, as well as three top Hamas officials. We can put this announcement up on the screen. So he writes in part, this is the ICC prosecutor filing on the basis of evidence collected and examined by my office. I have reasonable grounds to believe that Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Daib, more commonly known as Daif, and Ismail Haniyeh bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity, extermination as a crime against humanity, murder, taking hostages, rape and other acts

of sexual violence, torture, other humane acts, cruel treatment as a war crime, and outrages upon personal dignity. Let's go ahead and put the next piece up on the screen, which has the allegations against Netanyahu and Gallant. He says he has reasonable grounds to believe that those two individuals committed starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, willful killing, intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population, extermination and or murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts.

Dr. Parsi, if you could just react to this initial application and explain to people what this process looks like and what the significance here is. This is obviously tremendously significant and a long time in the making. There's been a lot of pressure on the ICC to do this, particularly mindful of the fact that they did issue such warrants on Vladimir Putin after his invasion of Ukraine, and it happened rather quickly. So this is huge, and this is something that the Israelis have been very, very worried about, because this will limit Netanyahu's ability to travel and Golan's ability to travel. Take, for instance, what happened to Putin. As a

result of this order, this warrant on his head, Putin could not attend the BRICS summit in South Africa last year. And this was a point of contention for him. He insisted on attending, but the South Africans essentially told him that he cannot because otherwise they would be obligated to arrest him. That was not a situation that they wanted to be in. This same scenario is now going to exist for Netanyahu. His ability to travel to numerous states that are less willing than the United States to disregard the ICC will now be very limited. Another aspect of this that is also important is that Galant is included in this. The Biden administration has been portraying Galant as some sort of a moderate alternative

to Netanyahu. Instead, we've seen that he's included, and rightfully so, given much of what he has ordered and what he has said. And this is also, of course, taking place in the context of Jake Sullivan just returning from Saudi Arabia. He is in Israel right now and is trying to patch together a normalization deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel in the midst of the ICC now issuing warrants on the leaders of Israel as well as Hamas for committing war crimes. It's also interesting what will happen to Hamas. Now, of course, Hamas' ability to move was very limited to begin with.

It's not as if Ismail Haniyeh would be able to travel to any Western country, would have been arrested on the spot. But what will this do to Qatar's ability to continue to have Hamas external headquarters in Doha, which, of course, the Qataris only did as a result of the U.S. government under the Bush administration asking them to host Hamas. And later on, of course, also asked the Qataris to host the Taliban because we needed a place to be able to have some indirect conversations with them. But will they be able to do so under these circumstances in which Haniyeh is now having an ICC warrant against them? What about rumors that the Turks were potentially going to host Hamas external leaders if Qatar threw them out? Would

the Turks agree to that now when there is an arrest warrant on Haniyeh? So this is also creating problems for Hamas in this context. But I think the bigger story is what this does now to the broader image of Israel, what it does to the ICJ case, and what it does to the Biden administration's policy of giving unlimited support to Israel, regardless of these different developments. Now when Netanyahu is in the same category as Vladimir Putin. You know, that's my last question here is how do you think this will affect U.S. policy? So obviously, House Republicans already have multiple bills going forward. They threatened to retaliate against the ICC and any, you know, connected bodies. What about President Biden?

What do you expect for the U.S. diplomatic stance on this to be? I think this is going to be extremely challenging for the Biden administration. Now, of course, when it comes to measures to target ICC, I mean, any such measure will truly put an end to any fantasy that the United States stands for some sort of a rules-based international order. We already saw some of this during the Trump years, and then it was treated as a grotesque violation of international norms to threaten to sanction judges of the ICC. If members of Congress now go forward with this, it will really significantly undermine the United States on the global stage for such a measure.

But for the Biden administration, this is going to be extremely tricky to deal with. You have this massive upswelling of pressure on the Biden administration for almost all directions at this point. And so far, they have resisted all of it, and quite unsuccessfully, I would say, because it has come at a tremendous cost to the U.S. itself. But it further now undermines the administration's ability to pursue its policies on Ukraine, etc., without dealing with a massive double standard. Because the fact that the ICC had issued those warrants on Putin was a very critical element justifying the U.S.'s support for Ukraine. Dr. Parsi, we are extremely grateful for some of your time this morning. I know you are very much in demand today. So thank you so much for spending

some time with us. Thank you so much for having me. Great to see you. Great to have Dr. Parsi there and his thoughts on obviously incredibly consequential warning. We have a little bit of footage of the ICC prosecutor talking specifically about the charges against Netanyahu and Yoav Galant. Let's go and take a listen to that. I can also confirm today that I have reasonable grounds to believe on the basis of evidence collected and examined by my office that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Minister of Defense Yoav Galant bear criminal responsibility for the following international crimes committed on the territory of the State of Palestine from at least the 8th of October 2023.

The crimes include starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, willfully causing great suffering, serious injury to body or health or cruel treatment, willful killing or murder, and intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population, as well as crimes against humanity of extermination and or murder, persecution, and allegations of crimes of committing other inhuman acts. Israel, like all states, has the right to defend its population. It has every right to ensure the return of hostages that have been criminally and callously taken.

Those rights, however, do not absolve Israel of its obligations to comply with international humanitarian law. So, Sagar, there's obviously a lot that's extraordinary and noteworthy about this. First of all, the fact that they charged both top Israeli leadership and top Hamas leadership, I think, takes away one of the talking points

you would otherwise hear, which is what about the crimes of Hamas? I also think it will be very interesting to see the response of people who are Israel supporters versus the pro-Palestinian crowd who are likely to welcome these investigations across the board. I think you're very likely to see a more selective reaction from the Israeli side. Yes, go after Hamas. Don't go after Israel. Very noteworthy in terms of Israel's increasingly clear status as a pariah state. This comes as there were additional requests from South Africa at the ICJ to issue immediate injunctions as Israel continues their ground

invasion in Rafah. It comes at a particularly tenuous moment in terms of Israeli-U.S. relations. And now you have the specter of, OK, Joe Biden, if you are shipping weapons and unconditionally supporting Netanyahu at this point, you are unconditionally supporting someone who the ICC is alleging is a war criminal. And, you know, right after you issued this report from the State Department saying, no, no, it's still fine. And, yeah, there may be war crimes, but we really can't quite say. So it makes it more difficult for them, has potential implications, criminal implications for U.S. officials as well. And in spite of the fact, you know, I know everyone will say, well, they don't think it's not like they have a police force to go in and actually arrest Netanyahu. There are still massive global implications for these actions.

And I think we know that from the fact that Bibi Netanyahu himself was kind of freaking out about this. And we have yet to get a response from the Israeli side. There's a couple different ways this can go. One of the ways I've been thinking about it is there's some inflection points previously. So League of Nations, you know, 1932, 1933, roughly like that. I have it in front of me. The Japanese withdraw from the League of Nations, you know, 1932, 1933, roughly like that. I have it in front of me. The Japanese withdraw from the League of Nations after the League of Nations condemns the Japanese invasion of Manchuria. So what does that actually lead to? At least kind of a reduction in the international system. The idea of cooperation is a major turning point in the road to World War II and

U.S. intervention. So that's one way that it could go, is that we could basically see a collapse of international legitimacy for the major powers, as in the West and the Israel allied nations and the US and others, explicitly pulling their support. That's one possible way, especially considering both who wins our election, the way that that's going to go, and how the Israelis decide to respond. So Japan, like that 1933, basically said, okay, screw you. You don't have any enforcement power. We're just going to keep doing what we're doing on steroids. That's one possible Israeli reaction. The thing is, though, in the context of Israeli domestic politics, this could be, could be, I want to say, one of the jump off points for where they're like, we got to get rid of Netanyahu. It was such a problem for us, both in terms of international legitimacy and in the legitimate prosecution of this war,

which is legitimate, at least in the eyes of the Israeli people. So, for example, can we put B1, please, up on the screen? We have, you know, currently the Benny Gantz, who is part of the wartime coalition, notably not charged, right, by the ICC, setting here a June 8 deadline for the prime minister to, quote, make a post-war plan or he will bolt the coalition. So this could be the exit ramp that the non-Netanyahu-aligned forces in Israel needed. They recognize this is a very small country of only a few million people. They are heavily reliant on import and export.

Their ability to conduct global trade and to export to the great power nations is literally the backbone of the Israeli economy. International legitimacy is the only thing that floats this entire country, including aid from all of the Western powers. Now, they've always had a hands-off relationship with the UN, but it's a whole other thing to have your prime minister literally unable to travel to other nations, which is a possible side effect of this. So I see this as two separate things. It really is, it could lead to a collapse of the international system kind of as we know it in terms of any rules-based international order. Not to say that it wasn't already collapsing, just a further collapse. Or it could be an off-ramp for

the US and for Israel to finally get rid of Netanyahu. That's kind of the two Or it could be an off-ramp for the U.S. and for Israel to finally get rid of Netanyahu. Yeah. That's kind of the two ways it could go. Major question marks. I mean, in one sense, this actually helps to legitimize the international order because one of the knocks against the ICC is, oh, they only ever prosecute U.S. adversaries and basically African despots. That's part of why it's so consequential to charge both Bibi Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Galant. So my understanding is there's three members of the Israeli security cabinet, the wartime cabinet. It's Netanyahu, Galant, and Benny Gantz. So two of the three now charged with war crimes. I haven't done a

fulsome reading of the application because a lot of moving pieces this morning, but I did a little skimming and a lot of what they talk about and point to is the starvation and the siege as war crimes against the Palestinian people. And obviously, Yoav Galant directly implicated and directly talking up that policy. He's the one who famously, infamously announced immediately, we are instituting a complete siege. These are human animals and they will be treated as such. They point to the closing of several critical border crossings. So that was one of the things that made this sort of undeniable is you don't have any argument of like, oh, we're just targeting Hamas and human shields, etc., etc.

When you're doing this sort of undeniably tangled up in this, you know, likely arrest warrant, this application for arrest warrants that's now been issued. You know, in terms of how Israeli society will react and is this an off ramp for the, you know, anti-Bibi forces, which we should be very clear are not anti-war forces, but they're more amenable to, hey, we need a hostage deal, and hey, maybe we should figure out what the hell we're going to do after this war is over. That's their critique of Netanyahu's direction here. Complicating for this creating a schism is the fact that Yoav Galant is one of the people who, prior to Gantz, gave a very similar press conference saying, hey,

we got to have a plan for a day after, and hey, Netanyahu, this is a real problem, et cetera, et cetera. So it truly is an extraordinary development. It makes it very difficult for the Biden administration and how they're gonna talk about this. Previously, the Biden administration's position has been not to weigh in on the veracity of the crimes themselves, but to argue that the ICC doesn't have jurisdiction in this instance, which even that my understanding is, you know, that's very hypocritical of them because it's very similar circumstances under which they charge Vladimir Putin and the U.S. State Department and the U.S. government supported those charges. Now you have very similar set of

legal facts in terms of jurisdiction. And they're saying, no, no, no, here we don't think that they have jurisdiction. But that's kind of been their out, similar to the out that they've used at the ICJ, saying, and just to remind people, ICJ is for the country itself. ICC is for the individuals. That's why you have direct arrest warrants for individual people here, whereas the ICJ is about the prosecution of the government's prosecution of the war overall and allegations that that is tantamount to genocide. Of course, you've had Republicans who have been even more aggressive against the ICC,

sending an extraordinary letter threatening the ICC and the members of the ICC specifically and threatening to sanction their family members and indicating directly there will be some sort of retaliation against them personally if they move forward with these charges. So we'll have to wait and see what that reaction is as well. And Sagar, the ICC prosecutor in this statement that he made specifically, didn't directly call out Republicans by name, but we know who he was referring to, told them they needed to cut it out, basically. They needed to stop this threatening and these attempts to bully and intimidate the International Criminal Court. So quite a noteworthy development. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary

results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed

system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her, and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator

to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145.

Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month, and we need to talk. It's tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives.

My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Yeah. Now, I'm curious, do they, like, rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me, and he's getting older now, too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is, and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's, like, really the GOAT. Like, he's a legend. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is. And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family?

It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important. And that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us to hear this and more on how music and culture collide. Listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. To be honest, I mean, I think that the lack of enforcement could be a real problem for them. You're saying it's strengthening them. It's like, well, if you can't do anything about it,

I mean, for example, is Ndibi Netanyahu still going to come to the United States? Yeah, probably. Is he probably going to be able to travel to ICC? Or not a part of the ICC. No, I understand that. But I'm saying like he'll come here. Is he going to be a party to maybe states in Europe or India or any of the other major powers. I mean, that would actually lead to a collapse of any sort of legitimacy. Now, again, I don't really believe that these bodies are all that legitimate necessarily in the first place, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the underlying conclusion. I think it just comes back to how the Israelis themselves

are going to conduct this, because I could very easily see a backlash in terms of Israeli society. What does the BB keep saying? If we have to go alone, we will go alone. Which, by the way, please do. I want you to go alone. I think you should. You should bear 100% responsibility for 100% of your actions without being underwritten by the great powers. But I'm also not naive. I know that our political system is 100% going to support them no matter what. So I do think it could lead in, unfortunately, a darker direction. We could see both Gallant and Beebe just say, okay, well, they've given, you know, this is the most that they possibly have in their quiver. Now we have no option but to go into RAFA and do what we were going to do regardless of this situation.

You know, it's a bit difficult to believe because Biden has been all over the map. He says, I will withhold weapons, but I didn't withhold any weapons. I may withhold weapons. I don't know what all of that looks like. I remain very much in a wait and see mode. I do not think that, I mean, I know for certain that nothing is ever going to happen to Bibi Netanyahu. In terms of how the rest of the world reacts, it's a very open question, I mean, I know for certain that nothing is ever going to happen to Bibi Netanyahu. In terms of how the rest of the world reacts, it's a very open question, especially in terms of diplomacy on behalf of the U.S. And we have an election in six months.

I mean, Trump literally could get elected and he'll be like, this entire thing is fake. He could withdraw from the United Nations. I mean, in response to something like this, I wouldn't put that actually off the table at all. Well, another question that we haven't talked through either is for the European countries who are party. Who are party, yeah, that's right. To the ICC and are under obligation to, if arrest warrants are issued, to actually arrest Netanyahu. What does this do to them? And we're very dismissive of the ICC here. European countries are much less dismissive of the ICC and are much more bought into its actions. So that's why I don't think you can just say, well, it doesn't matter. Because clearly Bibi thinks it matters.

And what direction does it harden? Is there like a rally around the flag effect domestically? It is very possible. But even with that, it continues to travel them along the path of a pariah state. And obviously, I mean, the big context here is that none of their actions and their ability to throw their weight around and take these unbelievable, not only with regard to just like the slaughter of Palestinians and, you know, continued ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, both in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the settlement palace, all of that. But also with regard to, I mean, assassinating a top Israeli military official in Damascus in their embassy building.

Do you think that they would feel comfy doing that if they didn't think that we had their back? Oh, I mean, I'm with you. Obviously. Yeah. So in any case, as much as Bibi may bluster, we'll do it on our own. We don't need you, et cetera, et cetera. He, more than anyone, knows that is utter and complete bullshit, that he is just peddling to an Israeli domestic audience. So I agree with you, a lot of question marks about how this plays out, what impact it has, what direction things go in. But I think there, one thing is clear, there will be an impact from it. It will not be a nothing here. Absolutely. And, you know, huge implications for how the Biden administration handles this, for how the Europeans handle this, for Israel's legitimacy, for media, you know,

narratives about, you know, how they're thinking about this conflict and talking about Netanyahu, et cetera. So anyway, that's the kind of big context there. If we could go to the second element we have here, which adds, Sarge, to what you were saying about the domestic political context, you now have a full-on revolt within the wartime coalition. You have one government minister telling Haaretz about Netanyahu. His mood recently has been delusional and dangerous. He's lost it, and we are all going down with him. In his view, everyone can pay any price as long as he survives. These are the type of statements being leaked now to the Israeli press and comes on the

heels of you have top generals who were briefing against Netanyahu. You had the defense minister, Yoav Klan, now also an alleged war criminal who was giving a press conference against Netanyahu. You have the third member of the Israeli war cabinet, Benny Gantz, also going against Netanyahu. And you have an increasing awareness, Sagar, within the Israeli public that this war has been a failure. The hostages are not back and there's no end. The best they're doing now is recovering the dead bodies of some of their hostages and trying to paint that as a win. Hamas is not defeated and Hamas is not cornered in Rafah. They're having to go back in and sustain casualties and losses on

the Israeli side in northern Gaza, where they had previously presented to their population a sort of mission accomplished view. There's been a huge economic impact. You still have huge numbers of Israelis who've been displaced from the northern part of Israel as the ongoing tit for tat war against Hezbollah continues on that front. So there's an increasing domestic recognition that the purported war aims have not been accomplished and that there is no hope of accomplishing them. And Bibi is just basically trying to draw on any questions about what the hell happens next because that's his best bet to try to hang on to power.

And we saw the protests actually erupt on the streets of Tel Aviv. And this is incredible. This is tens of thousands of people who took to the streets just days ago after Benny Gantz gave that ultimatum to Netanyahu. And it's actually the very first time that an opposition leader has now spoken at the Tel Aviv rally. So the wartime coalition is falling apart. There's basically no question about it. This is going to be Netanyahu's ultimate jujitsu move. I wouldn't put it past him. He is the ultimate and

the consummate survivor. He's survived. I mean, he's been, what is he, the longest serving prime minister in Israeli history. He's been basically either prime minister or a major figure in Israeli politics since I was born for the last 30 years, you know, helped scuttle many of the more peaceful times in Israeli history. And in many ways, this is like a big project they've been working on. And then, of course, also bears the ultimate failure for what happened on October 7th. So it could be that this be, you know, this is what finally pushes them over the edge. It really could. I easily see that as a jump off point. It's a possibility. We shouldn't say this is a foregone conclusion at all. And you wouldn't want to bet against this man who seems

to survive every, he was facing these huge corruption charges, which he continues to face, by the way. And that's part of the reason we don't talk about it a lot. It's part of the reason he wants to keep this war going is to avoid having to sort of pay the piper on those corruption charges as well. So could this be the thing that ultimately brings him down? Don't know. But it's also worth saying, I'm not gonna say nothing would be different if you had, say, Benny Gantz in there as prime minister. But we shouldn't fool ourselves about these are all very hawkish, very right-wing individuals. Now, they may not have, you know, Ben-Gavir and Smotrich, like, running the police department and as influential voices within their cabinet, but these are also very hardline and very hawkish figures. One thing I wanted to get your reaction

to, Sagar, in terms of the ultimatum that was issued by Benny Gantz, is he called for the quote unquote day after in Gaza to create an international civilian governance mechanism, including American, European, Arab, and Palestinian elements, which will also serve as a basis for a future alternative that is not Hamas and is not the PA. So that's the moderate solution is instead of direct Israeli military occupation, we're going to have, we're going to get the Americans involved too. Yay, lucky us, Sagar. Well, I mean, it's bipartisan. It wouldn't be Israel if they weren't looking for us to solve their problems, right? Yeah. I mean, it's ridiculous. I don't think that we're, I do think that we're foolish enough to fall for it since we're the ones who have built this dumbass pier literally on the side.

And, you know, it's costing hundreds of millions of dollars, American service members at risk, all of this. It's easy. This has been Israeli plan from day one. People can see. I know I've been all over it in my own Twitter feed. examples of Israeli government officials who are trying to either get us to occupy Gaza on their behalf, either fund the occupation of Gaza on their behalf, take in Palestinians on their behalf, and so many others, assist them in basically getting the people out of there so they don't have to deal with it. So all of this should be viewed with a very, very close eye. And I do

think, though, this is part of why, is if, let's say, Bibi does lose international legitimacy, well, then Israel wants to continue its international legitimacy to basically get the West to co-sign all of their actions. The best way to do that is to pick a new leader. To kick him out. Yeah, exactly, to kick him out and continue a bipartisan policy, which is largely popular in the country, let's all be honest. Yeah. We also just had meetings between Jake Sullivan and the Saudis, and they're still pushing this Saudi normalization deal that would include some sort of a path to a two-state solution. Biden talked about it in his Morehouse address, which we'll show you in a little while. But to me, it just underscores what a fantasy world the U.S. political class,

both Democrats and Republicans, but in some ways more the Democrats, have been operating in. And I mean, and that you'll have Golan and Benny Gantz and these people are operating in too, where it's, oh, well, what about the day after? Well, it's been really clear from the beginning that there was no plan for a day after because the whole original idea, and actually John Mearsheimer gave a speech recently that there was no plan for a day after because the whole original idea, and actually John Mearsheimer gave a speech recently that I was watching. I thought he laid this out brilliantly. The initial plan was, we're going to push these people out. We want ethnic cleansing. Remember, they were shopping all these plans of how they could do that. So Bibi talking about,

fitting out the population. They weren't able to succeed at actually pushing people out, migrating them out, although that is certainly not off the table and they continue to push in that direction, etc. And so instead, it changed to the goal of just, well, we're just going to annihilate the entire Gaza Strip. There's just going to be massive amounts of bloodletting and civilian casualties. And, you know, there isn't going to be a plan either for defeating Hamas or what comes after. It's just going to be about revenge for the sake of revenge and hoping that's sufficient for

the domestic political population. This has been clear from the very, very early days of this onslaught into Gaza. And so now that's part of why this conversation is always so preposterous, both on the Israeli side and on the American side. Like, we're still out there having these supposedly serious conversations about normalizing relations with Saudi in exchange for some path to state solution path. When the Israelis, especially Netanyahu, have been incredibly clear, like, we don't want that. We will do everything in our power to thwart that. We will never go in that direction, et cetera. So it just creates a completely absurd situation where everyone is denying

the reality that is so undeniably clear in front of their eyes. No, I think you're right. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets.

Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone,

I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've

never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month, and We Need to Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives.

My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me, and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is, and they're starting to be like yo your dad's like really the goat like he's a legend so he gets it what does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family it means a lot to me just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good like that's what's really important and that's

what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us to hear this and more on how music and culture collide. Listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's move on to the U.S. domestic political context because we continue to have these absolutely insane legislative actions that are being taken. Let's put this up on the screen. We had all but three Republicans and plus 16 Democrats voting for this completely insane bill that would force Biden to continue weapons transfers to Israel. And if he doesn't send every weapon at the moment it's requested, then they will actually defund

parts of our own Defense Department saga. And this is the party that was branding itself as quote unquote, America first. And they're actually putting us below this foreign ally that has dragged us into a disastrous situation. I use the word ally. That's not necessarily a word I would use. But I would also say- We can put it in quotes, ally. Republicans never called themselves American first. Trump called himself America first. Oh, plenty of these people did too, though. Maybe. A lot of these people have died in the war with neocons. Plenty of these people called themselves that too.

All right. So all but three Republicans ended up voting for it. 16 Democrats. The only reason Democrats voted against the bill was to not constrain President Biden's options. It's not as if that they don't agree. This actually is probably going to be increased now after the ICC warrants have been issued. Of course, there is no cause more uniting, you know, to the Republican caucus currently than, you know, complete subservience to the state of Israel. The bill is actually titled the Israeli Security Assistance Act. And look, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has said that he will not bring it to the floor. But it's one of those open questions where I think the ICC, the stuff where it genuinely does change the equation because Republicans are now going to

have multiple bills that are already under consideration in the House of Representatives to both retaliate against the ICC and probably to accelerate weapon shipments to the state of Israel. But yeah, we wanted to highlight this one just because it does, it really shows you, I think, who, you know, they serve in Congress. This would include, again, defunding separate departments of the DOD in exchange for not send it. And here's the irony. We're still sending them weapons. Right. The day after he said, I won't be sending them any more weapons, we sent them a billion dollars worth of weapon shipments, including artillery, like the most basic functions of their military. It's not like they aren't getting 98.9% of what they want. It's like a few things which may be withheld.

What did he say? May be withheld in the case of a major invasion. Of course, that remains to be seen. But since then, they've already announced another billion dollars in weapons. That's exactly what I'm saying. And there is a huge, I think there's something like 600,000 people who have already been displaced from Rafah. There is a huge, very significant, I would say definitely major, that was the word that they used, major ground invasion in Rafah, major military action in Rafah, and they're just continuing to ship

more weapons. I mean, it's just, it's insane to imagine the problem with Joe Biden's policy is that he's not pro-Israel enough. But that is the stance that some Democrats like John Fetterman and Richie Torres and the like are taking. Those are the types of people Fetterman's in the Senate, but Torres and Gottheimer and that crew are on the side of thinking Biden's not being pro-Israel enough. And all of the Republicans, up to and including Mr. America First himself, Donald Trump, that's the position they've taken, is that we need to be even more stridently on Israel's side. So just completely insane legislation coming out of the House here. We also had a noteworthy development. And by the way,

as Sager indicated, Schumer says he's not going to bring it to the floor. Biden says if it came up, he would veto it. And that I feel very confident about. And I also don't think Schumer will bring it up because he won't want to tie the hands of the American president. But the fact that it passed with, again, three Republicans that dissented from this, and 16 Democrats who joined the Republicans, that this passed the House is complete and utter insanity. Meanwhile, you have the first Biden administration appointee who is Jewish to resign from the administration over their policy vis-a-vis Gaza. This is Lily Greenberg called. She spoke to a couple different programs, in particular, Eamon Moyle Dean over on MSNBC. Let's take a listen to what she had to say.

What do you think is the significance of why you decided to do it now? I mean, obviously, this has been going on for seven months. You decided to release your letter on Wednesday, which also happened to be the 76th anniversary of what Palestinians call the Nekba or the catastrophe in which they commemorate the founding of the state of Israel and the mass exodus and displacement of Palestinians. But why was it so important for you to do it on that day at this point of the war? So, you know, I'm in Nakba and Shoah, which is the Hebrew word for Holocaust. They mean the same thing. They mean catastrophe. I was raised with a fairy tale about the founding of the modern state of Israel. I didn't know what the Nakba was.

And if anything, I was told that it wasn't true. So I think it was important for me as a Jewish person to acknowledge the significance of that. And the breaking point for me was that the president is really ignoring his own red line with the invasion of Rafah, right? And he's letting Netanyahu walk all over him. And once I saw that that $1 billion in arms transfer you were just talking about was going to go through,

I decided that I couldn't. It was too much. One of the things that Lily pointed to, not only in some of the interviews that she gave, but also in the letter that she wrote explaining her resignation, was how central her Jewish identity had always been to her. This is not someone you can dismiss as like, oh, they're barely even Jewish. This is someone who her Jewish

faith has really been critical to her upbringing and her identity and her entire worldview. And one of the things that she says is, what I've learned from my Jewish tradition is that every life is precious, that we are obliged to stand up for those facing violence and oppression and question authority in the face of injustice. She goes on and says, and I thought this was a really important point, Jewish safety cannot and will not come at the expense of Palestinian freedom. Making Jews the face of the American war machine makes us less safe. So, Sagar, I think, I mean, it's difficult for, you know, the pro-Israel faction to deal with people who are Jewish, who are coming from that faith tradition, who are saying that what's being done in Gaza in my name and with American

taxpayer dollars, this is the polar opposite of what my religious upbringing taught me our values are supposed to be. And I also think it's really noteworthy with her. She talks a little bit about how what she was taught about the reality of Israeli independence and the Nakba was totally different from reality. And so she clearly went on her own sort of journey of figuring out what was the truth and what was propaganda and coming to this place now. Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, she's a relatively low level official from the Interior Department. But regardless, you got to grapple with it. You got this lady on MSNBC. I actually think what's more indicative is not her, but I'm hearing a lot of stuff coming out of the State Department where there is a full-on revolt, I think, against Tony Blinken. Because a lot of these people are a lot like her. I went to a school with a lot of them.

These are all – Crystal, you would love them. They're all ultimate internationalists is the way I would put it. They will love and worship the ICC, international norms, and many of these other things. And they have been putting up quite a fight inside. So anytime you see things like this, what you should recognize is that this is like on the tail end of a lot of the dissent that's happening. And I also think inside of the White House as well, particularly a lot of the younger staffers. So I wouldn't erase this just because it's a coalitional problem. But also, I mean, if you have your own staff who's working against you, that's not really a good place to be

just for a White House and for a president. Another thing that we wanted to highlight in terms of subservience, by the way, to the state of Israel here in U.S. politics is my own home state, Texas. We have long had one of the most insane BDS laws on the books for a while. A woman actually lost her job over this law. Teacher, right? Yeah, it was a teacher. This was several years ago. Glenn Greenwald did an excellent write-up on it at the time. But according to Governor Abbott, he has now issued an executive order going after student demonstrators. Here we had a few student protesters who were on campus, told by UT San Antonio administrators, filmed, telling them that if they chant, quote, from the river to the sea, they will be reported to law enforcement in violation of state law. Let's take a listen.

This will be our official record recording here. You're welcome to listen. So the executive order states that language such as from the river to the sea is considered anti-semitic speech. So we're asking for folks to refrain from that because we are required to enforce what that is not. And enforcement is by means of expulsion? No. I ask you all not to use that language. Yes. And we ask that you all comply with that.

If you do not, we explain it two more times. And then if you continue to not comply with that, we will refer you over to the law enforcement agencies that are in our area. Okay. Thank you. We would greatly appreciate that you comply. All right. Thank you. Well, they were actually quite polite. I'm not sure I would have been so polite in response to that. But you can We would greatly appreciate that. All right. Thank you. Well, they were actually quite polite.

I'm not sure I would have been so polite in response to that. But you can see it all there. These are these are administrators. They're enforcing the law. As it as it is said, this is particularly egregious. You know, this this is the state that I grew up in. They like to talk about free speech at the time. But, you know, part of the reason this is a problem, Crystal, is UT San Antonio, that's a place where a lot of kids who go to school from the area, San Antonio in

particular has always been more of a lower income part of the state. It's one of the nice things about the UT and the Texas A&M state system is that it's a lot like SUNY or if anybody's from here in the Northeast, the state system allows a lot of people to actually go to school for a relatively affordable price and get a four-year college degree to enter the system and to actually get some skills. So there's a lot of first-generation people who go to these schools. So to put speech restrictions there

is a lot more egregious to me than anything going on at a private Ivy League university, right, because these are taxpayer-funded schools by the state of Texas, by Texas taxpayers, including my own parents. And yeah, you know, that's just insane that I can't believe this. I mean, the Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld that at public universities such as UT San Antonio that, I mean, the First Amendment applies. So not a lawyer, but this was tweeted out by the FIRE organization, which is a sort of,

you know, legal organization sort of fighting for First Amendment rights and focused on college campuses, seems to me like this is not legal. I mean, the fact that they're directly- They have to challenge it in court. Right. Yeah, obviously. Yeah. But I mean, I don't see how you can claim that this is consistent with the First Amendment. And it's funny because this administrator wants this to be recorded and on the record as some sort of, you know, validation for them. And I mean, I guess that they were trying to follow the law, et cetera, as outrageous as it is and obviously illegal as it is. I don't see how you argue this is consistent with the First Amendment when you're literally telling, you can't say these words, these specific words you cannot say. And by the way, as we've pointed out here many times,

I mean, Netanyahu and the Likud party charter has very similar, like, you know, Israel is going to be sovereign from the river to the sea and went to the UN and held up a map showing Israel with no Palestinian existence whatsoever. So that you are saying this is not just, you know, I'm not just offended by it or it's against school policy or whatever, but this is, I'm going to refer you to law enforcement for saying this particular set of words. That is so anti-American. I can scarcely wrap my head around it. And as you pointed out, Sagar, coming from Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, who five minutes ago was making a big deal about free speech on college campuses and signing executive orders to that effect, et cetera, et cetera. It's just such blatant hypocrisy. It really is quite

astonishing. Absolutely. So anyway, just wanted to give everybody that update. It's what a crazy 24 hours it's been here, but I'm glad we were able to do it, even on top of all of the stuff we have going on behind the scenes. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye.

Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus.

So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator

to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into,

call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month, and We Need to Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives.

My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah yeah because i bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too so his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is and they're starting to be like yo your dad's like really the goat like he's a legend so he gets it what does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family it means a lot to me just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like, that's what's really important, and that's what stands out, is that our music changes people's lives for the better.

So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy, or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So over the weekend, President Biden spoke at the commencement for Morehouse University and HBCU. And there were some limited protests inside, some more significant protests outside. Perhaps the most telling moment came

when he was introduced. And there was an interesting dynamic in the applause. You had all of the alumni, all of the older individuals who were there, stood up, gave President Biden a standing ovation. The current students, obviously, who are quite young, they stay seated and there's more of a sort of polite golf clap going on with them. So we can play that for you. There's more of a, they stay seated, and there's more of a sort of polite golf clap going on with them. So we can play that for you. Let's take a look. The 46th president of the United States, Joseph Farhan.

So you can see there the alumni, the family, big standing ovation for the president. Different vibes from the young people, very emblematic, of course, of the age divide within the Democratic Party and how they view President Biden in general. Specifically, how they view his policy vis-a-vis Israel and Gaza. President Biden himself acknowledged the protesters in his comments, which were interesting for a variety of reasons. Let's take a listen to a little bit of what he had to say. I want to say this very clearly. I support peaceful, nonviolent protest. Your voices should be heard. And I promise you, I hear them. I determined to make my administration look like America. I have more African-Americans in high place, including on the court, than any president in American history. Because I need the input.

What's happening in Gaza and Israel is heartbreaking. Hamas is viciously attacking Israel, killing innocent lives and holding people hostage. I was there nine days after, sent pictures of tying a mother and a daughter on a rope, pouring kerosene on them, burning them and watching as they died. Innocent Palestinians caught in the middle of all this. Men, women and children killed or displaced in the spite and desperate need of water, food and medicine.

It's a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. That's why I've called for an immediate ceasefire, an immediate ceasefire to stop the fighting. Bring the hostages home. And I've been working on a deal as we speak, working around the clock to lead an international effort to get more aid into Gaza, rebuild Gaza. I'm also working around the clock for more than just one ceasefire. I'm working to bring the region together. I'm working to build a lasting, durable peace. Because the question is, and you see what's going on in Israel today, what after?

And he goes on to call for a two-state solution. So there were a lot of lies packed into a short period of time there. First of all, I support peaceful nonviolent protests. Not so much judging by the comments and actions you've taken as president of the United States. Then he tries to do his identity politics as if that will be sufficient. I put this black person there and that black person in another place as if that is sufficient to cover for the policy choices that many young people object to. But he also says, you know, he calls for a quote-unquote immediate ceasefire. Well, this is what he previously was calling like a temporary humanitarian pause, different from a lasting ceasefire, an actual end to the war. And also, you know, in terms of an

actual ceasefire, he has, his UN officials have vetoed that multiple times, calls for two-state solutions, something else that has been vetoed by the US at the UN. But the most brazen one is he talks about these pictures, okay? Horrifying images that he paints for everyone. And no doubt, there were horrifying atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7th. That's why the ICC is issuing arrest warrants for top Hamas leaders. However, he keeps repeating this thing about these pictures that he's seen. Originally, he talked about the pictures of the beheaded babies. Well, now we know there were no pictures of beheaded babies because that didn't happen.

And it's not me saying that. It's Haaretz. It's an Israeli newspaper and others as well who dug in and said, okay, well, yes, there were atrocities. That particular thing didn't happen. Same thing with this horrifying picture he paints and claims that he saw these pictures. He did not see these pictures. Last time after he said that thing, then his, you know, people around him had to say, well, he didn't actually see these images. He's just talking generally about the horrors of October 7th. Like, why do you keep doing this? Because the White House, well, yeah, as you said, let's be very, very clear. The White House specifically said, we did not see those images. He's just describing images that were described to him. Now, again, actually, if you're interested and if you do take, if you're one of those people who believes in the ICC and all that, go and read what they wrote. They say we are still

investigating reports of sexual violence on October 7th. And in fact, the only sexual violence they've been able to document, you know, in their report that they write there is of a hostage, a testimony from them while they were in captivity. Now, I know, why parse all of this? Well, because it paints a very different picture and perhaps can lead to some emotional justification of things that happened in response to October 7th. And, you know, things do, facts matter when they come from the mouth of the president of the United States and specifically whenever it comes to the policy that's justified here. And like you said, Biden is all over the map. And he talks about these images, talks about a ceasefire, talks about a two-state solution.

It's like, dude, what do you actually believe? And obviously he's very, very torn because here we have the image. We have video of the valedictorian actually at Morehouse College who calls for a ceasefire and he's bemused in the background but then applause at the same time. Let's take a listen. It is my stance as a Morehouse man, nay as a human being, to call for an immediate and permanent ceasefire in the Gaza Strip. Hear the people of this world sing the song of righteous justice. Thank you.

So, a couple of options. Maybe he didn't know what he was clapping at. Maybe he was confused. I mean, listen, given the, you know, that expression on his face, I would definitely wouldn't put it past him. But as you said, it is very clear he doesn't know what's going on. People shouldn't forget. This is all in the context of Biden has a huge problem right now with black voters. We could put this up there on the screen and you can see very clearly for yourself. I mean, quote, in his beloved Philadelphia previously, Biden faces weariness

from black voters. And then, Crystal, there are multiple other incidents here. We have black voters in the state of Georgia where Biden was traveling, where he is seeing his poll numbers collapse in terms of black voter turnout and with Trump actually leading him in the state and basically every single poll that we have on the battleground so far. So first, let me react to D'Angelo Fletcher is the name of the Morehouse valedictorian who was speaking there. Kudos to him. That's not easy to do with the president of the United States sitting right there behind you to effectively call him out. And he calls for an immediate and permanent ceasefire, which is different language and different substance than what Biden is calling for.

But it's so surreal and so gaslighting to see the president of the United States clapping for something that he himself could push for and achieve in this way of like, yeah, I hope somebody really gets on that. It's like, what are we doing here? So that makes you crazy. With regard to, you know, this was a very intentional choice, speaking at Morehouse. First of all, he was hoping this could be a more controlled setting. Last time he spoke to a college audience, he was interrupted some dozen times. Here, there were some quiet protests, but it mostly went uninterrupted, and he just had to, you know, deal with the valedictorian calling for immediate and permanent ceasefire. There were louder protests outside, people calling him Genocide Joe, etc.

But this is part of a sort of campaign swing that is intended to appeal to black voters in general. I think black men in particular, where he's seen the most erosion in his poll numbers, speaking, I believe, at an NAACP dinner in Detroit. I think that's happening today. And we have some quotes of, this was the New York Times, Black voters explaining how they're feeling about Biden at this point. And they spoke to two dozen Black voters in Philadelphia. I think we have these quotes we can put up on the screen. And only eight of them out of two dozen said they were committed to Biden. So here's some of the concerns that were voiced among these individuals. So here is LaTosha Humphrey, who's 36 and is described as an infrequent voter, is considering supporting Mr. Trump if she votes at all. She says, I don't care about what goes on overseas.

I care about where I live. You have another individual, 69, who said that as of now, she didn't back Biden. She's angered by his support for Israel and the war in Gaza. She said of the candidates, they're all the same. Democrats, she said, come around to our churches when it's time to vote. Then we don't see them again. Another individual, Clinton Geary, 41, an entrepreneur and organizer, works to end community violence in Philadelphia, said he would support Trump in November. This will be his first time casting a ballot. He saw Mr. Biden as more focused on wars abroad than low-income communities domestically.

How are you going to help go to war and you can't help feed people, he said. And Sagar, the reason I pulled these quotes, first of all, it's just always interesting to hear voters in our own voices. But it also occurred to me that there's more of a nexus between the Israel-Gaza war and people's sentiments about the economy than we perhaps have thought about before because of exactly the sentiment. People see like, oh, you're moving heaven and earth to fund these overseas conflicts that I don't support and don't, if I care about them at all. And I'm looking at my life, I'm looking at my neighborhood. Like, where's you moving heaven and earth to help me and my family? So I thought that was very interesting that that came up repeatedly with these black voters in Philadelphia.

This sense of like, you have more care and concern for what's happening with Israelis than you do for me in, you know, downtown Philadelphia. I agree. I mean, I've always, that's always how I've presented the framing. That's basically my position here as well. I mean, it's one of those where watching our politicians and our president and our political system have subservience to a foreign state is nauseating, regardless of whatever that foreign state is. First it was Ukraine, now it's Israel, now it's like a Borg fusion of the two, where freedom and whatever cause that they're trying to justify.

But I completely agree. And whenever, we did it here. People can go watch our show immediately after. They broke 30-something years of congressional procedure just to pass foreign aid to two foreign wars. They have never done that for any of you. They came close to cut taxes for rich people. So what does that tell you about what the political system actually does and who they work for and who they serve? Even today, our entire feed, if we're going and looking,

all politicians reacting or not reacting to the ICC and pledging action. Where are they pledging action? We have an entire block coming up here about the state of our economy, the lowest consumer sentiment, the shocking revelations about how exactly net worth has gone under the Biden administration. And I don't see any level of concern. And again, this is a country where we should be very clear about, Israel has universal healthcare. They're very wealthy. I have been there. It's a nice place. And it's nice because, well, we basically pay for all of their defense. High-tech nation, startup nation, they shove this propaganda down your face. And

that's fine. You'd be proud of whatever you want. But, you know, you can't help but come away, having been there and spent a decent amount of time there myself, to say you people have plenty of money. And you can pay for all your own needs if you want to. You talk such a big game about we'll go it alone if we must. That's the entire purpose. I say we take them up on it. Go for it. You know?

Here's the thing, too, is, you know, the we talk about the huge generational divide and in terms of left wing criticism of Biden and where he's losing voters on the left of his coalition, that it's over Israel. So we talk about that. And you see the, you know, the group of people from that is the issue. And his policy is the, you know, of unconditional support is the problem. And their sense that he's supporting a genocide is the issue why they won't vote for him again. But I think what these quotes reveal is that the problem is so much bigger than young people. These are middle-aged and elderly black voters in Philadelphia who are saying, this is a problem for me. And we know from the polling that black voters in general are less supportive of the Israel no matter what policy than white

voters are. But we also see the way this is landing isn't even about how do I feel about Israelis or Palestinians. It's how do I feel about the fact that you seem to care more about what happens to Israelis than what happens to me. That seems to be very clearly your priority. And from the actions of Congress, I mean, you just can't really come away with any other conclusion when you see the amount of legislation that is being rushed through and all this amount of aid. And when it's, hey, we want to lift the minimum wage, then it's, ah, it's hard, and we can't, we tried, whatever, parliamentarian. And when it's, we want to ship billions of dollars to continue the genocide against Palestinians,

then we'll do no matter what, whatever it takes. We'll stay late. We'll figure it out. We'll come up with unorthodox and unprecedented parliamentary maneuvers, whatever we got to do. So they're not wrong to have that sense of like, oh, we see where your commitments and your values are, and it doesn't actually have anything to do with me and the way that I'm living my life. So I thought those were pretty extraordinary comments and really shifted some of the way I was thinking about how people were processing this conflict and the response to it. I can perfectly make sense. I mean, it's just one of those.

It's always been my objection. Same with Ukraine. It's like, why am I? very clearly that our support for Ukraine basically tanked the entire U.S. economy, drove up the price of gas, all so that the Ukrainians could defend for 18 months a square scrap of land in eastern Ukraine. That is why Americans paid some extra, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars in gas prices. That's nuts. Same thing here with Israel. It's like, what? We have all this money to be shipping overseas, all these politicians who work on their passing laws so that we can't criticize them. Meanwhile, people's new home mortgage rate is 7.5% and they don't have enough money for a down payment. That is always the problem with

foreign aid. And it's especially the problem with foreign aid when you don't have a rock solid economy here at home and our politicians are very clearly not caring about it. Captioning provided by Caption Associates, LLC. Captioning provided by Caption Associates, LLC. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children.

Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. You experienced dad guilt? I hate it. She understands, but she's still being pissed. Happy Father's Day. This show may be called Good Moms, Bad Choices, but she's still being pissed. She's like, dude. Happy Father's Day. The show may be called Good Moms, Bad Choices, but this show isn't just for moms. We keep it real about relationships and everything in between. And yes, men are more than welcome to listen in.

I knew nothing about brunch. What? She was a terrible girlfriend, but she put me on to brunch. To hear this and more, open your free iHeart app, search Good Moms, Bad Choices, and listen now. I'm Michael Kasson, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming.

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.