Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 5/26/23: New Triangle UFO Over CA Base w/ Jeremy Corbell, Saagar Appears In NYT Article On WH Sneakers, New Biden 2024 Polling, UK and France Strikes

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

This week we discuss a new UFO spotted over a California Military base with guest Jeremy Corbell (@JeremyCorbell) from the Weaponized podcast (https://jeremycorbell.link/), Saagar appearing in the New York Times being quoted for his takes on wearing Sneakers in the White House, Krystal and Emily analyze new Harris polls on Joe Biden's chances in 2024, and Max Alvarez brings us another Art of Class Warfare segment on strikes in the UK and France.To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/To listen to Breaking Points as a podcast, check them out on Apple and SpotifyApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/breaking-points-with-krystal-and-saagar/id1570045623 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Kbsy61zJSzPxNZZ3PKbXl Merch: https://breaking-points.myshopify.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. voices, and the perspectives that matter 24-7 because our stories deserve to be heard. Listen to the BIN News This Hour podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've seen a lot of stuff over 30 years, you know, some very despicable crime and things that are kind of tough to wrap your head around. And this ranks right up there in the pantheon of Rhode Island fraudsters.

I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming.

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. Joining us now, my friend Jeremy Korbel, friend of the show. He is the host of the Weaponized podcast and independent journalist who's constantly educating us on the UFO topics. Great to see you again, sir. Thank you.

Great to see you both. So, Jeremy, you have just released some stunning new footage that you have obtained. Why don't you set up a little bit about this new revelation before we play some of the video from your podcast, breaking it down? Sure. Yeah, this is an open investigation. We're doing something different this time. We're crowdsourcing actually to military, trying to get more information, more data. But here's the basics. In 2021, I got a tip from a couple of bases, actually, that there was an event, but that's all that I got. And all of a sudden I started, I was like, how am I going to get to the bottom of this? Started calling around.

I found people on the ground, over 50 eyewitnesses at one of the biggest military installations on planet Earth. It's called 29 Palms Military Base, Camp Wilson specifically, these Marines, they said to me, they reported to me that they saw a craft, a triangle shaped craft. And I was like, get all the footage, go airdrop, get it from everybody. So within 36 hours, I've got witness testimony. They're telling me what's going on and a whole bunch of videos and photos. The videos, I was like, there's got to be flares. It's like black night. You see lights in the sky. But then I got a low light photo from an iPhone because they were switching from video to photo, video to photo. So multiple angles. And when I saw this image, I'm like, there might be meat on this bone. You can see the outline of a craft.

And so if the report is true, if what all these Marines are telling me, I thought I had to dig in. So that was like almost two years ago. Man, did I dig in, try to get every source I could. And here we are today where I kind of got to the end of that. I need more witnesses. There was a huge response from the base. Of course, there was a training exercise.

There's always a training exercise going on there, there was a training exercise. There's always a training exercise going on there. It's a training facility. However, this was completely out of the ordinary. So I dug in, got information, and man, this crowdsourcing thing is working. Just within the last 24 hours, I am bombarded with individuals that were there with new photos, new images. So this is going to be an updating story, but wow. That's incredible. So let's take a look. We actually have, you got multiple videos and images,

but we have one of those that we can show folks that looks, as you describe it, I think there's five lights that you can see here that are in sort of a triangle formation. This to me was actually the most stunning, but I think we have video as well, guys, that we can play. Let's take a look at that. Let's play it. If you look in the picture, you can see like a black triangular shape.

Why are these not flares? Because they stayed there for a solid 10 minutes, just in the same spot. And flares don't sit in one spot for 10 minutes? No, they definitely fall. So you personally know that these were not flares. Do you believe this was a craft? Yeah, I would have to believe so.

It's a picture I took with the full back triangular shape underneath the lights. It's definitely not any type of flare or illumination rounds or anything. I didn't mean to fudge in, but I work with artillery, and we shoot illumination rounds out of our arty guns into the air to illum infantry guys. And this was nothing compared to what that is. Like this was something none of us had ever seen before. It was a completely

different color. Can you tell us a little bit more of what we're seeing there? Because it seems like it's sort of hovering in one spot, but maybe making a little bit of movement. What can you glean from both the videos and what eyewitnesses are telling you? Yeah. So what's been reported to me is this thing sat there between 10 and 25 minutes, absolutely motionless, not descending, not acting like normal flares. And these are experts. You heard that artillery man, they shoot flares. I've talked to a bunch of helo pilots. So that duration is what's really interesting. Now I have footage, if I link it together, that spans six minutes, but I know there's footage from the beginning that it came out. And again, it's between 10 and 25 minutes.

So they're baffled, they're perplexed. And remember, most of them, a lot of them could see an actual body of a craft. Luckily, they shot up what they call illumination rounds. Because at first I'm like, that's got to be flares. Well, they shoot up these illumination rounds, which are flares that slowly descend to illuminate the body of the craft. And as it was getting close to that body, the thing just, I mean, in their own words, vanished. And I said, what do you mean? Did the lights go out? And they're like, no, the shape of what we saw also, it just, it was gone.

So at that point, I was like super interested. And that's when I dug in and tried to get as much as I could of the reporting. One of the things that bothers me, Jeremy, is that, as you said, you've kicked this to the open source, which I actually think is very courageous, but is, of course, invites the critics. And they're like, oh, well, it was obviously a training exercise. It was just flares. Like, how can you even put this? It's as if you had not considered that in two years of reporting, had not specifically asked in the podcast, are you sure this wasn't a flare? How do you know it wasn't a flare? And these guys are like, I literally do this for a living. I see them all the time. This is not a flare. I was there. I witnessed the event. And I'm telling

you that this was completely different. So in terms of you referenced the open source, outside of what I think is at this point, it's obvious. It's like whenever you're questioning the pilots themselves involved in the incidents. It's like, okay, if you really think you know better than the pilot, then we're not really having a discussion. What are some of the things that you have gleaned so far from the open source kicking this to a crowdsourcing investigation that you view as legitimate that can answer more questions about this incident? Yeah. Well, first of all, when I say open source, I'm not talking about people behind their keyboards. I'm talking about direct eyewitnesses that were there, that were part of it. If we can solve this case, if it is prosaic, if I get a pilot that said, I dropped five flares

and people misunderstood, then I'm going to report that. But what's interesting is that when this occurred, you just have this abundance of information. As you saw, it was within 36 hours and you hear me saying, this has got to be flares and they're rebuting that. So I can't dismiss all the eyewitness reports because that is evidence. And I need to dig into that. Now, look, if this ends up being prosaic or something, that's the dirty job of investigating UFOs. We have to figure it out. But without having that conversation, it'll never happen. And you've got to talk to people that were there that are experts that actually saw it. That's how this case is going to get solved. So when I'm looking at all these UFO cases, some of them I know for

certain I have more data, I have radar, I have thermal. I don't have all of that for this case. So I, like you, am interested. We're just trying to solve this case. And this is the best way, I thought, to do that. Can you talk a little bit more about that, Jeremy? Because I'm sure you get tons of tips all the time. How do you go through the process of sorting through what is legitimate? What has, you know, some sort of mundane explanation? What is the process that you go through? Because I'm sure there are people who are watching who are like,

all right, but this is this guy's whole beat. He's really into this. He's looking for it to be something weird and unexplainable. So take us through what your process is to rule out some of the tips that you receive. Thank you for that question. Because 99% of my emails every day is like, that's Starlink. That's Venus. People don't understand that I'm skeptical about this probably more than they are. Of course, it's interesting. I'd love

for a good taste. But the thing is, is that when I get information, people say, well, why didn't you release this almost two years ago when it came? Because I don't just take something, frivolously throw it up onto the internet and say, hey, check it out. What I do is I take my time. I get to know the people. I make sure their stories don't change over time. I ask them to call their friends to go collect more data, more information. I vet their DD214s if they're out of the military. If they're in the military, I have people I can call to confirm their position. I get their fitness reports. I make sure people are who they say they are and that they don't have some agenda to trip me up or to get me to put something out that is fake.

So I take my time. My cases take years. The first word people hear from me if they end up getting through the barriers and we're on the phone is you got to have patience with me. I'm on cosmic time. This could take years for me to report on it. So that's what I do, Crystal, is just really take my time. And if I have something like this that we got to get to the bottom of and I can't do it on my own, then I reach out and ask for more information. I love that. And Jeremy, one thing

is one of the reasons why people like you are so important is it's one of the only ways we actually get the truth about what's going on on the inside. We covered the recent testimony that was happening before Congress and the government and the supposed officials that are charged with transparency don't appear to have any interest in transparency. Do you want to speak a little bit about that after that recent hearing? Yeah, I do. It's so funny. Every time George Knapp and I obtain and release, you know, formally classified but inherently unclassified videos and information, you see these hearings where they take things that look similar and then they try to show a resolved one. It's almost surreal, Sagar.

I'm not sure, you know, what it's like to be in my brain in those moments. But I'm watching this. The transparency level is so low. Just think about it. Arrow has had over two dozen people come and tell them where the hardware is. I know that is a fact because these people came to me first. I know that they're going through these classified projects. And to hear nothing about that in the hearings, it was very discouraging to the people that worked on these exploitation programs, know the program names, know where the hardware is at. I have hope that that's going to come out.

But I will tell you this, and this is really exciting. I am directly involved with making sure that the public gets to hear directly from these individuals in open hearings. I am absolutely 100% working on that behind the scenes with people in Congress, in Senate. It's going to be really interesting if we can achieve this goal of having this out of the classified forum and into the public setting. And I am highly, highly optimistic and encouraged that that is going to happen. I can't put a date on it, but I can tell you I've talked with all of these people and it is in process and people are pumped

to basically get this information into the public record. Excellent. Excellent, my friend. Well, we need you more than ever. We appreciate you joining us, sir. Thank you. Great to see you, Jeremy. Thank you for covering this, both of you. Always fun whenever the lame stream, fake news, New York Times catches up with what's going over here on Breaking Point. It's not even that particularly substantive, but it is a pet project of mine,

which I usually keep to Twitter and Instagram. And that is the way that our politicians dress. So let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. I was personally outraged at this meeting of the minds in which three out of the four congressional leaders all wore dress sneakers in the Oval Office. Hakeem Jeffries was the worst, wearing a straight up white-soled genuine sneaker with also ill-colored socks. Yeah, it does look bad. Hideous.

Mitch McConnell, you can't see it as well. He's wearing black shoes, which is what would be called for with the outfit that he's wearing. But it also includes a sneaker sole, which has holes in it, almost like a Nike Air-type sole. Hideous. Also, Kevin McCarthy was wearing a dark navy suit. And the problem is, is he wore

light brown shoes, also with a white sneaker sole. So the only person who's appropriately dressed in this photo is Chuck Schumer in terms of congressional leaders. And look, a lot of criticism here, but she's appropriately dressed. She's wearing dress heels. President Biden is also wearing black dress shoes. So the big debate was, do dress sneakers belong in the Oval Office? Now, I do not think dress sneakers belong anywhere as long as you're wearing a suit. It's just really the, it's two mismatches of what you're doing. But they actually quoted me in this because I was outraged about the Ted Lasso guys. Let's go and put this up there on the screen where I tweeted several weeks ago,

call me old-fashioned, but no man should set foot in the office without dress shoes, especially not sneakers. And I said, four guys, no ties, three sneakers in the Oval. This country is going to hell. What I was referencing is the Ted Lasso photo. Can we put that up there, please,

so that people can see it? And look, I don't watch Ted Lasso, so I don't know who these characters are. But I know Jason Sudeikis is. What you can see is Jason is wearing Nikes. Two others are also wearing sneakers, straight up sneakers. None of them are wearing ties. Now, one gentleman is wearing black dress shoes, which is great, but he's not wearing a tie. And I just think it's crazy that the only person who is appropriately dressed in this photo who is visiting as a guest is the woman. Like, why are women apparently the ones who are abiding by proper dress norms and standards every time they're

coming to the Oval? Look at President Biden and First Lady Jill. They look great. They're wearing exactly what you should be wearing whenever you're there. And this comes back to just like, A, it comes back to what actually looks good. And B, it's like, it's about respect. Like you're in, I'm not saying that people shouldn't wear casual clothes. People always say that like, oh, are you saying like construction workers should work? No. When you're on a construction job, then wear construction clothes. Whenever you go out to eat, yeah, maybe don't look like a bum. I don't think it's so much to ask. You should care about how you look. There's a ton of evidence, actually, that caring about how you look actually is very good for your self-esteem, for your health overall. So that's one empirical case

estimate for it. But what do you make of this general controversy? Can we put the Ted Lasso one back up? Because I got a question for you on this one. The guys that aren't wearing the suit and have the sneakers, if they weren't in the Oval Office, do you object to the looks? So, I mean, here's the issue. I just think that

that's very, first of all, Jason Sudeikis is rich and he's good looking. Is he the one, I don't know. He's the Ted Lasso guy on the far left

in the blue sweater. Blue sweater, closest to Jill. He's the one who's Ted Lasso. Yeah, closest to Joe Biden. He is wearing what would be described as like, that's not quite business casual. That's more like San Francisco cool.

Now, here's the thing. He's pulling it off. I will say that. I think he looks okay. Or he looks good. We'll say he looks good. I think that outfit is fine. That said, that's not that hard to do.

That's not that easy to do. Most people who are emulating that in a business setting look like shit. I'm just going to be honest. So that's part of why I am against it. What about the dude next to him? The guy next to him? Yeah. I mean, it's not as well composed, I think, of his outfit as Jason Sudeikis is.

But, I mean, it looks fine. And then the one on the end that has, like, the argyle sock situation. So he's got—this is why it's a mess. He's got an argyle sock, but I can tell that that's an unstructured, either linen suit or a very lightweight cotton suit, which is why he chose to go with the casual dress sneakers. The problem with the dress sneakers there and the suit is that he's wearing formal-ish dress socks, so it's totally mismatched,

and the shoes look awful. Part of the other reason is that you really should never wear that type of suit to any sort of semi-formal occasion. That is a type of suit that you should wear to like a wedding, like an outdoor wedding. You can wear a fun tie. Maybe you don't even wear socks or something like that. You could mix and match it up. Now, the other guy who's wearing that, that looks to me like a European clubbing outfit. That is one of those, that is classic German Euro going out. Yeah, the pants are like kind of tight.

He's got very tight pants, wearing all black in terms of his silhouette. The black shoes also like, wearing dress shoes in a casual setting is a classic Euro move. And now, as I said, the female who is in the show, she looks great.

I think she looks fantastic. She's wearing a nice dress. Her hair is appropriate. She's wearing nice and dressed heels. That's how you should wear whenever you're going to go visit the Oval Office. Okay, so here is my only commentary I will offer on this topic that I don't care all that much about. But I will say that there seems to be some inherent sexism in double standards in the way that the men are allowed to dress and the way that the women are expected to dress. In both of these photos, the women in every

instance are dressed formally and wearing formal heels, which by the way, this is part of what irritates me. Like men's dress shoes are a million times more comfortable than women's heels, which can be like outright painful. Like the ones that I can see in this picture, you can't even like, no one can walk a long distance in those. They're very painful and uncomfortable. So she has to step up her game than you guys do. I would prefer, you know, maybe there's a more relaxed standard all the way around because I don't really care that much, but it should at least be evenly applied. That's my plea for equality. Here's the problem though. That's my plea for equality.

Here's the problem, though. This is what leads to bummery on Capitol Hill. Let's put this up there on the screen. There's now a congressional sneaker caucus. They say the congressional sneaker caucus unequivocally supports Speaker McCarthy and Leader Jeffrey's freedom to wear dress sneakers in the Oval Office while debts, you know, whatever. And here's the issue again that I have with that. You know, at the end of the day, it's only the men who are taking advantage of this over in the name of comfort. As you said, dress, shoes, sure, they're not great. Guess what though? You're in Congress. Your only job is to represent others. A big part of that is how you look. I wish that it wasn't that way, but it is. Guess what? That's how elected politics and public life, that's what it means.

You know, I could technically do this show in a t-shirt. I don't. I don't just do it because I like it. I do it out of respect for everybody who watches this show. If you are gonna take the time out of your day to watch what we have to say, then I will do my absolute best effort. It's like a lawyer.

Do you want your lawyer to show up looking like a bum in court? I've heard from several lawyers about this. They're like, when we have defendants on trial, we always tell them, we're like, hey, listen, whether you like it or not, you need to dress up. That's just how the world is. That's something that you can say that you have a problem with society or whatever, but you're not going to change it. In terms of our leaders, they are trying to put comfort over everything else. And that is something which really pisses me off because these people, they're making all this money on stock market. They barely work. And they

literally come to Washington three days a week. They don't do anything. And you can't even wear a suit for three days. Like we're asking so much of you. I saw Joe Manchin walking around in a Lululemon quarter zip. And I'm like, dude, you said useless already. I'm like, get out of here. Get out. Yeah, you're done. I want to provide, uh, you said useless already. I'm like, get out of here. Get out. That dude. Yeah, you're done. I want to provide, you guys will be surprised by this, but I think that Mitch McConnell actually should get a little bit of an exemption for the outfit

that he was wearing, which to me, Red is like, he was doing his best to keep up appearances, but he's an old man and he needs some sneakers that like, because he did the black soul, he needs something that's going to allow him to at least like get around. If you're so old that you need like corrective shoes, I mean, he's 80 years old.

He's in ill health. So maybe retire, dude. You know, like I don't know why we're supposed to give you a pass for that. Like it's not nobody asked you to stick around. So anyway. Literally no one did. Yeah, that's true.

Call me ageist. Call me ageist if you want. Sorry. So we got a new poll in the Democratic primary. Always interesting when media outlets actually decide to poll the contenders who are in the race versus all the like fantasy. They still will do these polls that are like, what about Kamala Harris? What about Michelle Obama? It's like those people are not running. You have people who are actually running. So how are they doing in the race? Let's go and put this up on the screen.

This is from Change Polls. They find Joe Biden still with a commanding lead at 65%. However, both of his challengers in this particular poll are in double digits. You've got Marianne Williamson and RFK Jr. tied at 11%. This was taken from 428 to 52. So, you know, whatever you think of those two candidates, you'll have the media like frantically declaring they're not serious, they're not serious, they're not serious. Meanwhile, they're doing better against Biden than every candidate in the Republican side against Trump, save for DeSantis. You don't have all the same like,

oh, Tim Scott's not serious. Oh, Nikki Haley's not serious. Oh, Mike Pence not serious. It's not up to you guys to determine who's serious or not. It's up to the voters. And also judging by previous standards of who would qualify for the debate stage, candidates in double digits would overwhelmingly qualify. It's not even close call for debate stage. But, you know, there was another poll, Emily, that was even perhaps more interesting to me, which is this Harvard-Harris poll, which we talked about a couple of times in the show, which had a lot of really interesting data. They asked the question of voters, do you think Joe Biden is going to win the Democratic primary? Only 50 percent said yes. It was 50-50. Democratic voters.

This I think this was all voters. Oh, of all voters. OK. And I found that kind of astonishing because, you know, again, you have this overwhelming narrative that he doesn't even have a challenger. Like they barely even acknowledge Bobby or Marianne. And yet voters are saying like, I'm looking at this guy. And let alone the general election. I don't even know he's going to make it through the Democratic primary. So I thought that was kind of stunning. Yeah. There's another finding from the poll that they asked, is Joe Biden mentally fit to serve as president of the United States? Or do you have doubts about his fitness for office? Which is an interesting question because technically both of those things could be true at the same time. You think he's probably fit, but I have doubts about it. Well, the results are 57% of people have doubts about his fitness for office.

That includes a quarter of Democrats in the poll. 24% of Democrats said that. 83% of Republicans said that they have doubts about his fitness. And now get this, here's the real problem for Joe Biden. 65% of independents answered that I have doubts about his fitness. 35% said he is mentally fit. And I think that question actually goes hand in hand with the one that you were talking about they asked in terms of whether he's going to be the nominee. People just see that he's frail, and he is obviously frail. And I think people wonder potentially what could happen. Donald Trump, by the way, no spring chicken, also fairly old. And so I think these questions are front and center of everyone's mind. Like when I think about Tim Scott's campaign, they're saying like literally we have no idea what's going to happen

a year from now. We have no idea what's going to transpire. So we're just going to kind of wait in the wings, see what happens, and we'll be there. Hope for the best. Be in position if something changes. Yeah. I mean, what's interesting to me is they ask the same question on the Republican side. Do you think Donald Trump is going to win or lose the Republican nomination? Right. They actually had he had a little bit more confidence that he was going to win the Republican nomination than Biden had that he was going to win the Democratic nomination. It's pretty close. So 52 percent of voters thought that Trump would win the nomination versus 48 percent. But compare that to the media coverage. You know, if you were listening to the media, there isn't even a Democratic primary going on.

Like Joe Biden is being anointed. It's happening. Period. End of story. Voters clearly not so sure. On the other side, you know, there's been a lot of discussion about Trump's weakness and, you know, how he's really vulnerable and how DeSantis has a real shot. Now, I think the media has sort of turned on that recently just over some stumbles and over some weakness in the poll. But you definitely think there's more of a race going on on the Republican side. And that's actually not how voters are seeing things. I think you're 100 percent correct that it does come down to voters just looking at Biden and on a basic human level being like, I don't know if this guy can go through another four years. Surely they're going to come up with some kind of alternative.

Let alone another campaign cycle. Right. But it also really demonstrates why Democrats are so desperate. DNC Democrats, elected Democratic elites, are so desperate to keep the public from even knowing that they have choices. To keep Biden off of a campaign stage or a debate stage with those choices, because they know that people really are looking for alternatives and open to alternatives. And they just, their best bet is just to pretend like those alternatives don't actually exist. They are not confident in Joe Biden. I think for good reasons, when you look at 65% of independents saying that they're not sure

about his fitness for office. That's why they don't want Joe Biden on the debate stage. But honestly, it could backfire on them and be totally counterproductive in the same way that it backfired on them in 2016, because it gives RFK Jr., it gives Marianne more ammunition to say, this is an actual conspiracy and the part of the DNC to keep voters from having options. And we's it. We saw all of the leaks come out. We know that's exactly what happened. And that pisses voters off. It will Bernie laid the groundwork for people to understand that this is a real narrative, that this is rooted in truth. And that is powerful when you see it happening again and again and again. And your alternative

is not Hillary Clinton, all the flaws that Hillary Clinton has, she's not senile in the same way that Joe Biden is. And that's going to be a huge problem for the DNC because when people are, you know, you already have double digits for Marianne and RFK Jr. That's crazy. Yeah. That's bad for the DNC's ability to actually control the narrative. When every article is like, they're not serious, they're not serious, to the extent they mention them at all. So, yeah, I think it's pretty interesting. I think it's pretty wild. And it's also why, even though, do I have any confidence the DNC is going to actually bend and schedule debates or that Biden would subject himself to?

No, because they are so fearful of any sort of exchange, any sort of acknowledgement that there is real competition there. But I still think it's really important to press the case to educate the public and the Democratic primary base that, number one, this party that claims to be all, oh, democracy is so sacred, et cetera, you know, not living up to their word, number one, and number two, to just illustrate for them that there are alternatives, that they're being shut out, and that you don't have to go in the direction of another four years of hoping that the actuarial tables are wrong. So I just pulled up an NBC article from June 23rd of 2015 that says it's the headline, Bernie's Long Odds vs. Hillary, NBC, WSJ, Wall Street Journal poll, Bernie was pulling at 15%. Hillary Clinton was at 75%. Wow. And so, again, that was more of a binary choice because now you have probably RFK Jr. and

Marianne Williamson splitting votes. But holy smokes, like that's 15% for Bernie Sanders. When you combine Marianne and RFK Jr., you're already way higher than that. Yeah. So this is bad news. And there was another, I think, 11 percent that said, don't know. Hi, I'm Maximilian Alvarez. I'm the editor in chief of the Real News Network and the host of the podcast Working People. And this is the art of class war on breaking points. Massive worker strikes continue to rock Europe, but you would hardly know it if you live here in North America

and you get your news exclusively from corporate media. Facing a crushing cost-of-living crisis exacerbated by corporate price gouging, monetary inflation, and compounding costs from the ongoing war in Ukraine, working people across industries have been resorting to industrial action, i.e. strikes, to fight against further job losses, pay cuts, and a general decline in living and working standards for working class people across the board. From air traffic controllers and airport

workers in Germany, Spain, and Italy, to healthcare workers, educators, Amazon workers, and civil servants in the United Kingdom. From teachers and students protesting in Hungary, to general strikes and mayday demonstrations in France, Greece, and Turkey, paralyzing major cities like Paris, Athens, and Istanbul, the winter of worker discontent shows no signs of stopping in the spring or summer. The top-down assault on working people is taking many forms. From French President Emmanuel Macron's deeply unpopular plan to raise retirement ages and further weaken the country's beloved pension system, changes that he has opted to force into reality by controversially and undemocratically invoking constitutional special powers to override parliament, to the French police's brutal crackdown on strikers, to the Tory government in the United Kingdom drawing out and throwing a wrench into negotiations in the national rail dispute involving the National Union of Rail, Maritime, and Transport Workers, or the RMT.

And on top of that, responding to the massive wave of strikes in the UK by ramming through a draconian anti--strike law and to defend workers' sacred and necessary right to strike. Again, if you've been watching corporate media here in North America, chances are you'll only be vaguely aware of this historic wave of strikes. And if you want to know more about them, and if you want to hear directly from workers themselves, then you should go check out the many video, podcast, and text reports we published at the Real News Network in the last year. And you should definitely revisit my previous segments on breaking points from March and January, in which I spoke with British and French rail workers

about the strikes in their respective countries. Today, we're going to give y'all a critical update on those strikes, because frankly, a lot has happened since our last segment, and there are some big strike dates coming up in early June. In France, trade unions have announced a nationwide day of protest set to take place on June 6th, ahead of a meeting by lawmakers on June 8th to discuss a draft bill

proposed by the opposition Leo party to cancel the retirement age reform. In the UK, as Gwen Tofam recently reported for The Guardian, quote, the RMT has announced another rail strike on Friday, the 2nd of June, the day before the men's FA Cup final, warning that the government, quote, cannot wish the dispute away, end quote. About 20,000 RMT members working for the 14 major rail companies in England will strike for 24 hours in the long-running dispute over pay and conditions. The stoppage falls between two days of strikes already called by the Drivers' Union, ASLEF, on the 31st of May and the 3rd of June, compounding the disruption for passengers before the final at Wembley between Manchester City and Manchester United on the Saturday.

The union said that while there had been contact with the train operator's body, the rail delivery group, or the RDG, since the last strike was called, there had been no new proposals. The package, rejected in April, had not significantly improved since the offer was rejected in February, a headline increase of 9% over two years, but with conditions attached and only a short-term guarantee against job cuts. Ground update on the ongoing class struggle playing out across France and the UK, I'm honored to be joined today once again by Mathieu Boll-Redat, calling in from France. Mathieu is a train operator and General Secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT Union, or the General Confederation of Labor. We're also joined by Clayton Clive, calling in from England. Clayton is a train conductor, and he is also currently serving as the branch secretary for the RMT Manchester South branch. Mathieu, Clayton, thank you both so much for joining us today on Breaking Points. I know you are both incredibly busy, and you have been fighting your asses off for months on end.

So I promise not to keep you too long. You know, we last checked in with Mathieu and Gaz Jackson from the RMT for another Breaking Points interview that we published a little over a month ago. So I want to catch people up on what's been happening since then. So why don't we start by telling people from your vantage points as members of and fighters for the working class, what has been happening in your countries over the past month? And then in the next round, we'll talk about the upcoming strikes in June. So, Mathieu, you're up first, brother. Hi, Max. And of course, I'm busy, but I'm never too busy for you. You know that.

So thank you very much again to give me the floor. And hello, good evening to all brothers and sisters across the ocean in Baltimore and all the USA. So about this topic, since the last time we met, I think it was in the end of March, so we were just in the hand of our unlimited strike. As you remember, we do one month on unlimited strike in different strategic sector of the economy, okay, the refinery, the power, the power workers, the railway worker on the ground, collect garbage, etc. So, at this point, we succeed to make afraid the majority of the members of parliament, so they don't vote the law. But you know, they use a bypass trick of the

Constitution to bypass the parliament and pass the law without a vote. So after that, there is the young people, they come very loudly in the movement every night. They do the wild demonstration. They call that wild. I call that free demonstration on the street, not just in Paris, even in small cities, and they are fighting against the police. Now the situation is more quiet, but the president said we have to move on, you know, we have to move on and talk about other things and then we we say the the working class movement said we will not moving on we will continue to fight to resist and uh to claim our legitimate claims legitimate authentication legitimate agenda and so we do a huge May Day in Paris.

It was, I think, the biggest May Day I never saw, with a lot of comrades from more than 60 countries come in Paris. So it was very important to show the international support to our people and the working class in France. The support, of course, against the law, against the anti-pension law, but the support against the anti-democratic policy of President Macron. For us now, it's become very clear that our fight is not just a self-defense, a social self-defense.

It's become a democratic self-defense against authoritarianism of the government. And of course, we plan a new day of strike the 6th of June, you mentioned it, because as you mentioned, there will be a small group of the opposition actually and that's a good joke is a rightist group at the in the parliament but they they want to finish this movement they want to stop this and and stop the strike stop the demonstration because it's very very bad for the profits it's very very bad for for the bosses so they try to to make a new vote with a new law to uh to cancel the first law uh would take place without vote so you can see it's totally crazy the situation here in the parliament so because the

organ is that the eight we decide to organize a new day of general strike and demonstration in all over the country the 6th of june and in my um company it will be a huge huge day of strike and we invite uh delegation for six countries just in my branch, Portugal, Greece and Italy to demonstrate with us. So it will be a huge day. And of course, and I will conclude by that. I'm sorry if I was too long. And of course, during the summer, even we don't win at the 8th of June, during the summer, and we're not taking the place of general strike day because it's the holiday, etc. And we know French people, we are very lazy, we take one month of holiday. holiday sorry about that in usa but uh i think in usa most of people take another job during the holidays but it's a different situation there's a holiday holiday what's that yeah yeah definitely but uh it will be still a mobilization but with with different form and we announced that, for example, we will fight to cancel a lot of sports events and a lot of cultural events.

And now, from now, we start to threat this government. If you continue to do that, there will be no Olympic Games in Paris. We will collapse all the cities for the olympic games event is not blackmailing it's a self-defense policy hell yeah well i want to i want to circle back and talk about um the demonstrations planned for the sixth and and what people can do to support y'all but i guess before we get Clayton, why don't we bring you in here? And yeah, like we said last time on Breaking Points, I got to chat with Mathieu and Gaz Jackson. We know the great Gaz Jackson over at the RMT in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.

And that was at the end of March. So, uh, why don't you give viewers and listeners an update on what's been going on, uh, specifically with the RMT and the national rail dispute in the UK. Um, but also I guess, you know, if you want to give folks any other updates on the other strikes that we've been seeing, like the NHS strike and, you know, the first Amazon workers strike in the UK, what's been going on over there over the past month hello thanks for having me again and solidarity to our friends and comrades in france and around the world what matthew was just saying there about summer is exactly what i want a piece of maybe we could do with matthew on our national executive committee at the rmt

and because what we need is escalation, in my opinion. Where we were when you last spoke with Gaz, I believe that the offer was being considered. That offer was the 5%, as you've mentioned, with another 5% tied to terms and conditions, modernisation, as they call it. That went to a consultation amongst all the branches in our union and the overwhelming majority of branches said to reject that offer outright without a referendum i think our branch actually sent a resolution to that effect before we were even told to consult our members that's how strongly people in man Manchester felt that that offer was unacceptable. Obviously, it's unacceptable for workers to have to pay for their own pay rise that meets the rise in inflation.

Nobody should have to see their terms and conditions cut purely to be able to afford to live. And if we'd accepted something like that, it sets a dangerous precedent. You know, the government will accept workers elsewhere to do it as well, expect workers elsewhere to do that as well. And you're, you know, selling your soul for a little bit, but in the long term, your job is worse off, and those attacks would keep coming. So luckily, we've rejected that offer outright without a referendum, and now we've a day of action coming up on the, let me check,

we've a day of action coming up. I think it's the 2nd of June. I know it's slotted in with ASLEF's coming up strike action. We've only called one day because at the time we were waiting for the renewal of our mandate, because in the UK we have to ballot every six months. So now what I'm expecting is an escalation of action over the summer, because we've taken 20 days.

This will be our 20th day of strike action in 11 months. So to me, we've not really hit hard. You know, we've not used the economic power that we have and my personal view is last summer we should have hit hard because the longer it drags on the more weary members will get and as as you see if you put put poor offers out to the membership at time and again eventually they'll accept that and we'll have all sold ourselves short and so what i want from our union and from our national executive is an escalation of accent action because it's

going to reach a point where we've got no choice sooner or later we're either going to be worn down or we're going to have to escalate you know you're going to have to throw you all your cards in at some point and and show what we've got and because so far we've not done that and regardless of the action being small and you know subtle action it's not been it's not been long periods of sustained action regardless of that regardless of however we take strike action we've got the the anti-strike bill a minimum service bill now hot on our heels as well um you mentioned what else is going on in june obviously as left their their offer they they only represent trade and drivers rmt represents all grades in transport industries. ASLEF had an offer, a worse offer than ours,

and theirs too was tied to cuts to safety, if you can believe it, especially when you know what's going on over in the US on your railroads there with safety issues. The government wants ASLEF to accept for a pay rise a reduction in driver training and for drivers to um basically be trained in a way that they get to choose how competent they are you know there isn't a set standard currently there's a set standard of say you've got to do 100 hours over such a route um

but they want to change it so it's up to individual drivers so if the managers are pressuring you we need you driving, you could say, I'm fine after five hours. And, you know, you're not to the same level. And likewise, we've seen escalations in strikes in the strike wave from Amazon and the junior doctors have announced more dates after rejecting a pay rise. And ultimately, I think the the tide is sort of turning in the viewpoint that workers can get more and deserve more and there is

there is no excuse you know we've we've hammered it home time and again the RMT about passenger numbers the government consistently says oh passengers aren't coming back so we need reform and we hear this over and over again. And we've just recently got the Department for Transport's own numbers for April. And I believe it's 98.6% passenger numbers on the railway for April. And that's whilst strikes have been going on. And that's whilst companies are still running reduced timetables and some companies can't even manage to run that reduced timetable to an acceptable level. They're still cancelling.

So much so that we're seeing our franchise-based privatised system collapse. Again, we've seen another train operating company have to be taken over by the government-owned operator of the last resort which i think is a fantastic name so so it's clear for everyone to see that the rail industry is going to easily exceed passenger numbers that were set before the pandemic i believe the year running up to the pandemic we had the second highest recorded passenger levels ever and we'll be in on some days and

near enough matching throughout April that passenger level again on a poor service and so it's a time for investment it's a time to give the workers their fair share and hopefully obviously our one day of action isn't going to change much so hopefully we get a nice string of dates announced that will bring the government to the table and will give our negotiators a shoe to beat the government with, as it were. All right. So as we've already said, we've got some big disruptions planned for early June in both France and the UK. Now, like I said, we are recording this segment on the week of May 22nd, so it's always possible that circumstances can change by the time this segment gets published. But let's assume that things will continue as planned for now. So, Mathieu Clayton, tell us a little more about what's going to be happening in early June. Who's going to be involved? How big do you expect these strikes to be?

What do you hope the outcome of these strikes will be? And what can people around the world do to stand in solidarity with their fellow workers in France and the UK? That's a very good question um you know um I'm a train driver you mentioned it I'm the general secretary of course of the of my Union but I'm also I'm too uh I'm a trainer too because it's very important the training of unionist young unionists is very important you know and usually i said a small joke during the our training camp um i i never talk about the beliefs of people you know gods or not you know hell or heaven. But I'm 40 and I could definitely say that I don't believe in Santa Claus. So I think we are not five kids old.

We don't believe in Santa Claus. We have to believe in us. We have to believe in Santa Claus. We have to believe in us. We have to believe in ourselves. We have to believe in the power of the working class. There is a power in the union. So we have to fight. We have to fight. It's our only solution.

We have not the billion of euro and dollars. We are not billionaires, but we are billions of workers. And that, I think, is the way out, the key to the way out. So the 6th of June, there is now a call

of national strike, of railway workers, of energy workers, of refinery and ports all the ports in france buses underground and schools uh teachers um and um people who uh public servants in um city halls at court etc etc in prisons or two etc etc so there is a huge uh call but there is a call in private sector too for example in the commerce services um you mentioned the command from amazon uh it is the same in you you eat or deliver you know this small new job you know the startup nation like uh president macron

like to say so it's very important to coagulate all this uh anger all uh and let all this hope to we we are the party of the anger and the party of the hope we have to turn the anger to fight to win our legitimate claims so the interesting point is today now because we not just wait for the 6th of june and the day after and the day after. We continue to organize now. For example, now, President Macron is minister or the deputy of his parliament minority. You know, the word in France is a parliament majority. But of course, it's a parliament minority because they don't take their chance by vote. So every day, every day, they try to go to a place, a factory, visit a school, etc, etc,

in all the country to try to move on, you know, and talk about other things, education, immigration, industry, et cetera, et cetera. There is everyday demonstration, small demonstration, maybe hundreds people, maybe thousands people, but there is always a demonstration with people and claim and scream and etc etc. Make musics and say no to this abuse, no to this anti-democratic injury to all. And for example, and that's a true story you can you can check it on online

because they are afraid about our comrades brothers and sisters from the energy from the energy trade union of cuttings the lights in different meeting rooms, they have always, the staff of the president, they have always in any move, they have always a big battery, you know, a big helping battery, emergency battery to have power. Can you imagine that? The president of the sixth powerful economy in the world could not make a move in his own country without an emergency battery. That's so fucking ridiculous, you know, and that's the situation now. So it's a big guerrilla, you know. Of course, for now, we don't win the first move of the war. But it's a huge class war. There is several battles, okay.

And we have to prove to him he could not restore the civil peace in this country if he doesn't take off his beard. We have to prove that during months and months and months. That's the plan now. It baffles me the way the powerful people like Macron talk about working class struggle. He's saying, oh, we got to move on and talk about other stuff. When it's like, well, our you know, we haven't solved any of the issues that we were protesting about before. So why are we going to move on?

And if we move on, then we're just going to keep sliding further and further down the ladder. We're going to be working longer. We're going to be retiring later. The cost of living crisis is still a crisis. And so just because he's ready to move on doesn't mean working people are. And Clayton, I wanted to bring you in here and ask if you could fill us in as well about the strikes that are coming up in early June, because I don't know,

it felt like there was potentially a resolution on the horizon in the national rail dispute. That's at least what we've been hearing from British media. And surely Prime Minister Rishi Sunak also wants to talk about something else and move past all these strikes. But he's not doing anything to address the issues that y'all have been striking over. And not only that, he has rammed through he and the Tories have rammed through this anti-strike law that would force striking workers in the UK to guarantee a minimum level of service during strikes, i.e. if someone, if the RMT goes on strike, the government apparently gets to say how many workers have to cross that picket line to maintain a certain level of service so that service isn't disrupted during the strike, even though disrupting service is the whole point of a strike. So anyway, I'm getting pissed off myself. Why don't you tell viewers and listeners, I guess, where things stand now and, yeah, what they should be looking out for with these new round of strikes in early June? Yeah, so the 2nd of June, we have our day of strike action, which is every grade at every train operating company being out on strike.

And that's sandwiched between two days of drivers taking strike action, which is every grade at every train operating company being out on strike. And that's sandwiched between two days of drivers taking strike action. And for us, it's about 20,000 members that will be on strike on the 2nd of June. And like I've said earlier, I'm hoping we see an escalation of action because as I've said, the anti-strike bill, the minimum service bill that you've mentioned is now on its sort of final leg of the whatever it does when it bats around between unelected House of Lords and then our marginally elected MPs. It gets back and forwards a bit and then they do some amendments and you sort of lose interest.

At the first hearing, I paid attention and now I'm like, I guess it's coming. You know, it's inevitable. The TUC talk about challenging it in the courts, but we have to remember that the courts work in the interest of the state, and this is the state's law, so I can't see the court coming and being my knight

in shining armour and saving me from this bill. And likewise, we can't wait for Keir Starmer's Labour Party, because although he said he will repeal this bill, I just saw the other day that he said he thinks that he should let the new policing bill bed in, which is terrifying. That's a bill that basically outlaws protest. If you're a bit too noisy, the police can come and arrest you. So we're on a dangerous path. We're on a scary road with this bill as well, which is, you know, I've always found my union to be the most democratic part of my life. You know, they say we live in a democracy. I don't get to elect my manager. I get to elect an MP

for my area, but my MP is always going to be a Labour MP. They've got a majority of 20-odd thousands. So if I want to vote for the Green Party, it doesn't mean anything. We're not going to see a massive swing for the Green Party. The most democratic part of my life is my union. Luckily, I have one of the most democratic trade unions in the country. And the idea that this strike bill is anything other than to protect the state and to protect capital and private profit, you know, that's all it is. They say it's going to be for the benefit of everyday people. Someone actually said to me on a most recent strike that he was being persecuted by our strike. And I said, I don't think that's the case.

I think you'll find our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was persecuted. You're not being persecuted by not being able to get the train today. And you can see the language they're using. Sometimes it works, but I think for the vast majority of people in the UK, they've always voted in support in polls and stuff of the strike action people are taking. And we've generally had that support on the street and on the ground. And I don't think that will change this. The leaders of unions, our General Secretary, Mick Lynch, and Matt Rack from the Fibre Grades Union, have said that we're not going to comply with these laws and that we're

going to have to resist them, which is brilliant. But the cynic in me does say very loudly in my head, we've been complying with anti-trade union laws for 30 years. We've been complying with Factor's laws all this time. And it's been our union policy to not comply with those laws but we comply and so the talk is good but we need to see the action you know and we need to see workers being lifted up and given that empowerment to not comply because there will be great amount of pressure on workers to comply and there will be a great amount of pressure on union leaders to not be explicit when they're asking for non-compliance because, of course, if a union leader says,

don't comply with those laws, you're all out on strike, that union's assets could be frozen and that could be the end of that union. But for me, I don't really care because unions will come and go, but workers and organized workers have always existed. They were organizing when they were building the pyramids. They were organizing when Cromwell was doing his thing. They were organizing in factories in the 1800s. They were organizing when the u.s national guard was

shooting at them we'll we'll keep on organizing and we'll find new ways to do it and i think like mick lynch has said the anti-trade union laws these these anti-struct the minimum service bill as it's called nicely nice name for it is only going to open more a bigger can of worms for them because when people don't comply, there's nothing they can do. If the government says to me, I'm one of X amount of percent that has to go into work, if we all don't go into work, they can't sack us all. And if the nurses don't go into work, they can't sack them all. So, you know, we've just got to stand up for ourselves. That's the ultimate thing and i think

uh our stereotype is i think that we're quite a compliant people british people generally or english people at least um so let's hope that we can not be compliant for a change and i think part of that although i'm a i'm sort of a person that thinks we don't need leaders and there is a vast swathe of union membership that does need leaders and it does need people to look up to them it needs you know big bill haywood's and it needs bob crows and it needs people like that and it needs mclinch and it needs our current leaders now to lead that charge because they are doing it at the moment they are saying you know talking the talk but we need them to keep that up and likewise we need our action to escalate because otherwise this dispute is going to go and run on beyond a year and we've got nothing to show for it

and we started very positively you know like Gaz said in the the previous one that this was like dropping a stone in a pond and all the ripples coming out. But those ripples will fade away if there aren't victories. If there aren't victories, we'll have nothing to show for the strike wave. And that will be the end of it for maybe another generation. You won't see any mobilization like this again. So what we need and what I hope for is escalation. And we need to be ready for those anti-strike laws we need to be ready for that minimum service bill and we all need to stand around stand up and not go into work when that bill comes because as Ted Grant said I believe it was Ted Grant

some people have been appropriating this quote for a while, but not not a single wheel turns, not a light bulb comes on, you know, not a letter is delivered without the kind permission of the working class. And we's a little bit of a cheeky question, as my British friends would say. But frankly, I just could not help myself. So on May 20th, as Breaking Point's viewers can see on their screen, The Telegraph posted this picture on social media of UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and French President Emmanuel Macron just generally looking creepy and weird together on the second day of the G7 leaders summit in Hiroshima, Japan. Now, the Telegraph asked followers to caption the photo, and I am absolutely dying to know how you guys would caption the photo. And I am absolutely dying to know how you guys would caption this photo. What do you think Sunak and Macron are talking about here?

And what would you say to Macron and Sunak right now if you had the chance to talk to them directly? That's a tricky one. So, of course, I don't know what they're talking about, but I can imagine because these people, when they meet each other in Davos, for example, in Switzerland, or in India for the G7 meeting, in Hiroshima, sorry, for the G7 meeting. These people, there are very few people, and they pretend to command our lives.

They pretend to be the new gods of this earth. They pretend to put a new religion, maybe, the religion of the money, the religion of the war. You ask me what I imagine they're talking about. I would, I wish, imagine they're talking about peace, they're talking about social progress they're talking about um uh how to to satisfy the needs of the people of and not just of the people of my country of indian country etc of u.s country but of the all the world you know so but i know they don't do that i know they don't do that i know they talk about how to satisfy the the greed instinct of the few people of the world of the leadership of the world of the big bosses of the world

and big capitalists and and to satisfy uh not this needs but this but these greedy feelings, they need to destroy our combativity, to destroy our movement, because we claim just the satisfaction of our needs. That's the difference between us and them. They want to satisfy greedy feelings, and we want to satisfy our needs. Just for example, in this G77, they're talking about a new big ship

with a plane, a war plane, you know. It's 4,000, it's 400,000 euros only for France, for one boat in france one boat 400 000 euros uh sorry 100 000 billions billions sorry uh million million million, million. And they talk about, they talk about, they said they need to break our pension system because we miss 12, only 12 billion euro.

So you can do the balance. You can do the math. Okay. With one boat, you can pay like 10 years of our pension system. That's so ridiculous. So what they do. So, sorry, I lost my humor about that. But we live in very sad times and very tough times.

We need to be shoulder on shoulder together in France, in all Europe, and cross the ocean together because I think they want to kill us all, you know, to kill us all and destroy the planet just to satisfy their greedy feelings. So we have to fight. This is our only solution. Of course, to defend ourselves.

I have a girl, a little girl. I love her. She's 20. She works very good at school. She does her homework. She does the dishes when she have to do she do all her duty she's a very good girl and now i'm not sure about this future about our future i'm not sure about that even i work even i'm a good dad i have a good value i'm not sure about that and that's fucking unfair.

So I don't have anything smart and deep and meaningful to add, like Matthew did, maybe. I don't think so. What originally first came to mind was a bit of a cheap jab, which was that Macron is probably enjoying being the tallest person in a room for a change. And I

checked as well. Macron is 173 centimetres and Sunak is 170. But what also came to mind was the Disco Elysium quote, which was, evil child murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. So yeah, that's my caption. I don't know if that would get published in the paper. And the only other thing I would add is that I probably wouldn't talk to them, because I think that they're the sort of people whose mind you would never change. You could take them anywhere to see suffering, and they wouldn't change their minds about things.

They wouldn't change their mind about war, about funding war. They wouldn't change their mind about increasing the funding for school or education. All that really matters to them is profit and, like you said, very expensive watches. If anyone can support us, talking of money, maybe Macron can, I would maybe recommend to them the strike fund the rmt's got a national dispute fund and all that money helps helps us help our members

some of our members in this dispute are incredibly low paid because we represent all grades there are these rumors that we've got very exaggerated salaries um but they're not true, I can assure you. So if anyone can support our National Strike Fund, that would be much appreciated. But yeah, that's about me. Thank you. So that is Mathieu Boll-Redat, a train operator and general secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT Union, calling in from France, and Clayton Clive calling in from England. Thank you for watching this segment with Breaking Points, and be sure to subscribe to my news outlet, The Real News, with links in the show description. See you soon for the next edition of The Art of Class War.

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