Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 5/9/24: Trump Massive Legal Wins, Trump Floats Abortion Monitors, RFK Jr Says Worm Ate Brain, Americans Flee Large Cities

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss key judge delays Trump docs case, Trump pressed on abortion stance, RFK Jr says a worm ate his brain, and Americans flee large cities for rural towns.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling

about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Stay informed, empowered, and ahead of the curve with the BIN News This Hour podcast. Updated hourly to bring you the latest stories shaping the Black community. From breaking headlines to cultural milestones, the Black Information Network delivers the facts, the voices, and the perspectives that matter 24-7 because our stories deserve to be heard. Listen to the BIN News This Hour podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Ready or Not 2024 is here

and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election. We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. All right, turning now to Donald Trump. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. There's been several legal developments which show that Trump's legal troubles, which threatened to sink him before the election, well, things are actually starting to look pretty good for him. So you may recall that the judge had ruled that Fannie Willis was allowed to stay on the Trump election case after it was revealed that she was having an extramarital affair and paying the lead prosecutor, Nathan Wade. Nathan Wade eventually

resigned despite still being some swirling allegations and investigations into exactly what was happening between the two of them. But a Georgia appeals court now is agreed to review the lower court ruling that would have allowed her to continue the prosecution of the case. This, quote, is likely to delay the case in the second time as many days that he's gotten a favorable ruling whenever it comes to his legal travails. The next part is, frankly, maybe the most important one out of all of these. We can put this up there on the screen. Ryan and Emily briefly touched on it. But the judge in the Trump classified documents case has completely canceled the original May trial date. No new date set, and Crystal says it will be indefinitely suspended until pretrial motions and other things are allowed to continue.

This comes after repeated releases of documents from the Trump team have, frankly, highlighted some questionable FBI behavior around bringing props. You know the famous photo of spreading out the documents? Now, I'm not saying the photo itself was staged, but apparently the FBI brought along a lot of different things in order to enhance some of the photo products and some of the other case against Trump. This has then raised more legal questions about how they were handling things, about Jack Smith's own involvement, and enough has now been raised that the judge has been forced to cancel the trial. So the likelihood now of the trial already being set in May wasn't going to happen. But the official cancellation and the indefinite suspension, the likelihood of this happening, either of these happening before November, which are the two hands down strongest

cases against Trump, Georgia, because it's a state case, the documents case, because let's be honest, it's difficult to wiggle your way out of that one. Neither are likely to go to trial before November. And the January 6th one too, given everything we know about the Supreme Court and all that, I wouldn't put my money on that one either. I mean, we have to say this judge has been very favorable to Trump in every way that she could possibly be from the beginning. So she was looking for a way to have this be the outcome and she found a way. So there you go.

Welcome to the legal system. And that was in terms of, I think, the most open and shut. Yeah. The documents case. Oh, we covered it a lot of the time. Tons. It was very difficult to see his way out of that one because it was just so black and white. He, you know, many things that he'd said clearly indicated

like he knew these documents were classified. He was holding on to them anyway, the way that they were kept, the, you know, refusal, the fact that he was telling people to move them all around and try to hide it. Like there was just, this was a tough one to wiggle out of, but here you go. All he needed was a delay and he got it. So that one is at least not going to be a problem for him for now. If he doesn't win re-election to the presidency, then it might be a problem for him in the future. But for now, he's coast is clear on that one.

The January 6th one, don't know what's going to happen there because you've got the Supreme Court taking a look at the Trump team's claims that he has immunity from, quote unquote, official acts. Indications are, and we covered this as well, that they may at least partially side with him, although it may be the case that some of the things that he was doing with regard to January 6th cannot be construed as official acts. But that's going to take time. That's going to take time to see what the Supreme Court says, and then they may have to, you know, amend the case and refile there. That's going to be a lengthy legal process as well. The, uh, no one, you know, there's no one to blame on that one, except Merrick Garland, who drug his feet for whatever reason and didn't, we, we had all the facts of the January 6th situation immediately after January 6th. And yet it took so long for

him to appoint a special counsel and for that case to come together, et cetera, that, you know, that's a problem of their own making in terms of the Trump legal timeline. Then you've got now the George case. That one is on ice. We'll see how long it takes to adjudicate that one. And the only one that is moving forward is the, you know, the least of the legal charges, which is the Hush Money case, which, you know, is now ongoing. And apparently, listen, I don't know. I'm not a legal expert. Apparently, people didn't think that Stormy's testimony went that well for the prosecution. You're shocking me that Stormy's is Daniel's.

Well, okay, let's put this up there. We can talk about it. There are a couple of problems. Quote, prosecutors took a major risk. And by the way, keep in mind, this is the New York Times analysis. So probably the most favorable that they will get. It presented a risk for prosecutors because, quote, she had recalled some of the sexual dalliance, et cetera. But they also specifically say that she recalled him talking about his family and about his wife, Melania. And that in that, that she, you know, look, basically she gave enough in her testimony. She tried to allay it and say, well, he told me that Melania wouldn't

worry about it or any of that. But there was enough there in terms of the cross-examination where they were able to impute a personal motive. So for example, Trump's lawyers literally were like, is it fair to say that you hate President Trump? And she literally said, yes. She's like, yes, I hate him. And she's like, I want to see him brought to justice. And it's like, well, okay, he didn't really do anything to you except get you paid.

It's like, this is about a campaign finance allegation. The other thing is that the, quote, the motive, as I said, for the payoff was the true point of contention because it comes back to both a claim that she was trying to extort money from him. So it was a character problem for her. And then also whenever it comes to the motivation of whether Trump was paying her off for personal reasons with Melania. So both in terms of character, and as you said, even people who are very favorable are clearly seeing that this may have actually been a mistake because what it really did was just rile Trump up.

Apparently he was cursing a lot through the testimony. The judge had to summon the lawyer and say, hey, Trump needs to stop oddly saying bullshit every time that she talks. And I think he tweeted something that may have been a violation of the contempt and gag order that previously had already been warned. He may be going to jail. So it's possible that's what they're going for. But on a legal basis, again, I'm just saying this. I put my bias out there on the table.

I think this whole case is stupid. I do think there's a well enough reasonable doubt now at this point for just one guy to be like, yeah, I think he was just trying to pay her off because of Melania, which is plausible on its face. Yeah. You know, at the very beginning. I mean, yeah, I think that's right. True. Like, I don't think it takes that much to convince people like, yeah, he didn't want his wife to know. Like, it may also have had a campaign. They can. Yeah, it can also. Right. Have been a campaign motivation. But if it's just like he didn't want his wife to know, I think this all comes down to who are the jurors? What do they really think? What do they really feel about Donald Trump? I think that's probably what this case comes down

to. But even if they find him guilty, it's a pretty low level charge. It's not like the documents one, which is really significant. It's not like the January 6th one or the Georgia one. Those are like quite significant charges that would likely come with quite significant penalties. And it certainly appears that all three of them are probably completely off the table before the election. So this is the only one. And it's a low level charge. It's very questionable whether he's even going to be found guilty. So we'll have to see. But yeah, I mean, this is like the luckiest man on the planet. Luckiest man on the planet. At this point, I don't even believe in God,

and I think he's been touched by God. There's just no earthly explanation here. It's really something. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never

found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop.

It's Black Music Month, and We Need to Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Yeah. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me, and he's getting older now too.

So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is, and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like, he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like, that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better.

So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that i'm really happy or my family in general let's talk about the music that moves us to hear this and more on how music and culture collide listen to we need to talk from the black effect podcast network on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast you say you never give in to a meltdown and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it and never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there, no, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens. Before you leave the car and can't get out. Never happens.

Before you leave the car, always stop. Look. Lock. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. Let's go to the next part. This is in terms of politics. So Trump has actually been taking a break from the trial every once in a while to do interviews. Now, the interviews he's been doing have been with local news.

Now, there's a lot of debate sometimes amongst politicians. They're like, well, should we do local news or not? Because you're trying to reach markets. But what they sometimes forget is that local news anchors are definitely willing to ask tougher questions that are more relevant to where they are than previously national anchors. And here, we actually have Trump getting pressed

on the topic of abortion. This is a Midwest local news station, and you can see why it's very salient there for voter turnout, for past elections, and also how Trump is squirming a little bit here. So let's take a listen. What's your stance on women's reproductive rights? Well, we have something that's very big. The Roe v. Wade was terminated by the United States Supreme Court, and now it's states' rights. It's all states' rights. This is something they've wanted to do, Barbara, for many, many years. They've tried to cancel Roe v. Wade because all legal scholars, all states, most states,

they wanted the state to control, and that's what we've got. And now the states are working it out. If you look at Ohio, they worked something out and it came out far more liberal, I would say, than they thought, the people are voting. There are ads running that say that you would support certain states with bans monitoring a woman's pregnancy. Well, that would be up to the states. Again, they will make a decision as to how they do it. So far, a lot of states are coming in without that, without any of that. And that would all be up to the states. Everything having to do with that question is now in the hands of the states, which is where every legal scholar, and that's on both sides, Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative, every legal

scholar wanted it to be in the hands of the states. And that's what they've done. So that was York, Pennsylvania and Harrisburg, obviously very significant, important area there for the president. This is the second time now in the last week that this has come up. So let's put this up there on the screen. This actually came as an excerpt from a Time magazine interview where he gave, that's why she was asking the question, where he said he, quote, wouldn't stop states from tracking individual pregnancies so they could prosecute people getting abortions. Now, the thing is, is that Trump is being consistent with the whole leave it to the states model. And that's kind of the problem because that is what

is opening him up, you know, to exactly this line of questioning. And pro-life people are always like, that's not fair. You never ask about late-term abortion. I'm like, well, I mean, look, I don't make the rules. The truth is people don't really give a shit about late-term abortion in the context of when there are states, what, 24 states or whatever, they either have heartbeat bills or straight-up bans on abortions. Like, that's not what they're concerned about. They're more concerned about the other and about preventing that. And so in that case, they're actually very favorable of federal action to prevent that. Leave it to the states is not nearly as popular as Republicans believe that it was going to be in the 1990s. Well, because I mean, leave it to the states also means that

California and New York get to do what they want to, which is obviously, you know, I mean, I think if you actually care about this issue, it's much more consistent to say, no, this is what it should be. Like, I think this is murder. I think it's murder if it happens in California. I think it is murder if it happens in Arizona and Kansas or anywhere in between. And politically, obviously, the public has clearly shifted more in a pro-choice direction. This has been a 50-50 issue forever. It's not anymore.

It's not a 50-50 issue. You have a clear majority, close to a super majority of Americans who say abortion should be legal in all or most circumstances. And it's no longer theoretical what happens in a post Roe versus Wade world. And what people are horrified by is what the states are doing. So a leave it to the states political argument is not particularly compelling when people are like, yeah, but Arizona, like we left it to Arizona and they enacted this, you know, allowed this 1864 ban to come into place. Now they have since then, after multiple attempts, at least sort of like rolled back the most extreme portions of that. But there are all kinds of states across the country that have very extreme legislation on the books that people are really quite horrified by. So leave it to the

states no longer feels like this safe middle ground position because some of these state legislators, not the populations of the states themselves, but some of these state legislators have really fringe and very extreme ideas that they are willing to enact and which have been enacted into law. So, you know, obviously it continues to be an issue for them. And as I continue to say, like, I don't think there's a way you can message your way out of this because the reality is clear. People are horrified by it. They're motivated by it. You know, this is going to keep the suburban women in the Democratic Party tent. It's going to give them a lot of motivation to show up on election day if the prior results are any indication of what's going to happen here. And it really is the sort of one lifeline that Joe Biden and the Democrats

have at this point. Yeah, it is the sole and last thing that's we're spending time on it because it is so significant. Every time one of these things airs, I mean, let's not forget John Fetterman, you know, could barely speak and he wins by five points in the state of Pennsylvania. Abortion there was the number one most determinative issue on the ballot. And if we're looking now today, so if we look at the Trump Biden poll, it's relatively split. Sometimes they show Trump up, Sometimes they don't. But if you look at Casey versus McCormick, which is the Senate race, and given Casey is a less controversial figure, you know, and all of that, he's leading outside of the margin of error against Dave McCormick, who allegedly who ran against Dr. Oz. And he's like, I'm the only one who can beat John Fetterman. It's like, well, maybe neither of you are the ones who can beat anybody because

of the issue of abortion. Both of them very strong on the pro-life side. So I would not underestimate this at the state-by-state level. Even though we see some battleground states, every ballot box, referendum and all thing, better show that when this is on the ballot or at the top of consciousness for people, Democrats have blowout wins that polling just doesn't show. The other problem for Trump is like, there are some issues he's really comfy talking about. He's happy to talk about immigration. He's happy to talk about China or whatever. He has always been deeply uncomfortable talking about this issue. He doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't know the language to talk about it.

He doesn't know the contours of the debate. This is how he got himself in trouble back in 2016 when he was sort of newly trying to embrace the pro-life position. And he gets asked this question about, OK, well, then if women get an abortion, should they be charged with murder? Should there be criminal penalties for that? in the ins and outs of the pro-life position and how they've tried to justify not taking their this is murder conclusion to the obvious, you know, obvious end, which is then women who committed are murderers and should be in prison. Since he wasn't familiar with that, he's like, I guess so. Yeah, I guess that's what they think, right? And he's still kind of in that place. He doesn't really want to talk about it, even though he's the guy that did get it done. There's no running away from that. You know, the consequences are clear and apparent. And we're going to continue to have more and more

horror stories that are going to be featured prominently in ads that are backed by, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in this election where people can see for themselves what this has meant for women, families, et cetera. So, I mean, there's just, it's a real problem for him and I don't think there's really a way to wiggle out of this one. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing.

No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills

I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line

at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month and We Need to Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives.

My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Yeah. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is.

And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good.

Like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy. Or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You say you'd never give in to a meltdown

and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you'd never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it and never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there, no, it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car and can't get out. Never happens before you leave the car. Always stop. Look, lock. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. Let's move on to the next one.

Speaking of wiggling things going around, that was a difficult transition. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. I'm just going to present this without any comment because the details are so crazy. According to New York Times and according to RFK Jr. himself, the presidential candidate, quote, had previously faced undisclosed health issues, including a parasite that he had said ate part of his brain. So back in 2010, while he was undergoing a deposition, it revealed that RFK Jr. was experiencing memory loss and mental fogginess so severe that friends grew concerned that he might have a brain tumor. He then consulted many of the country's top neurologists who had treated his uncle, Ted Kennedy, who discovered and believed that he had a dead parasite in his brain, literal a dead worm, like a brain worm. The dead parasite believed to have either been contracted through his diet, of which he said was very heavy in fish and in tuna,

which he said was combining with mercury poisoning and in tuna, which he said was combining with mercury poisoning. And it also just returned from a trip to Southeast Asia. But the point is that it's a pretty serious, actually, health condition that could lead to strokes, to seizures, and to other things. He had said in an interview with the New York Times that he eventually did recover from memory loss and fogginess, and he has no current after effects of the parasite, which he said had not required treatment. Nonetheless, it has not stopped both his opponents and many others from making brain worm jokes. So what do you make of this, Crystal, before we get to the actual news? It's just a crazy situation.

Yeah. The context of this is he was undergoing a deposition. He was trying to limit or eliminate the necessity to pay alimony. So he was trying to argue, like, I've got all these cognitive impairments, mercury poisoning. I've got this worm in my brain that ate part of it. He says at one point, I have cognitive issues clearly, which, you know, it's not a quote that you really want out there about yourself as a presidential candidate, especially coming out of your mouth. Especially when he has gone out of his way to contrast his, you know, he's not a young guy, his relative vigor and fitness. There's the whole, you know, shirtless push-ups, whatever, lifting weights. Working out in jeans is the weird one, man.

That's the one I just. That's a strange choice. I'm all about getting jacked. I'm all about that. But working out in jeans is just weird. Yeah man. That's the one I just— That's a strange choice. I'm all about getting jacked. I'm all about that. But working out in jeans is just weird. Yeah. Anyway, that's been a part of, you know, what he's put forward. And he's clearly, like, talked a lot about health in his campaign and offering himself as, you know, when you have this on the record, him talking about this brain that ate a portion of his worm that ate a portion of his brain.

As the Times actually points out. Cognitive issues and mercury poisoning, et cetera. Again, he says he's recovered. And listen, we spoke with him. He seemed fine. I don't think cognition is his problem. I'll say that. That would be my assessment as well.

Yes. R.K. Jr. tweets after the news, I offer to eat five more brain worms and still beat President Biden and President Trump and Biden in a debate. I feel confident of the result, even with a six worm handicap. New York Times also accurately pointing out that neither of them, Biden nor Trump, have released their medical records and that we don't know very much about their cognition practices. Fair. Either, which I think is a very, very fair point. Yeah, indeed. There was also an interview.

We wanted to add some medical heft. So Dr. Sanjay Gupta at CNN explained some of the background on medically how this is even possible. Here's what he had to say. This does happen. I mean, obviously, we're just hearing about it from from RFK himself. But I can tell you as a neurosurgeon, this is a rare condition, but it's typically something that is caused by eating undercooked pork. And again, we don't know this for sure, but just based on the description that we're hearing,

sounds very much like this, where you eat undercooked pork and the larvae get into your bloodstream and then basically can spread throughout the body in the bloodstream. They can go to all sorts of different organs, including the brain, Jim. So again, it's unusual. Let me show you an image here. This is what it might look like in someone's brain. When you do an MRI scan, you might see these areas and you can see them in purple there, Jim, where they basically look like little cysts, essentially, in the brain. And that is the pork worm larvae that gets in there. Sometimes it just is sort of sitting there.

It doesn't cause any kind of problems. Sometimes it can cause other symptoms like headaches or even seizures. And again, we don't know specifically what happened with him or if this is actually it. But this does happen a few thousand times a year. Imagine that image that I just showed you, and you could have these tiny little spots typically on top of the brain or closer to the surface of the brain. And you basically go in, and similar to a tumor in a way, you would go in and basically just remove that cyst.

They're not usually associated with memory loss because I think that's what took RFK to the doctors in the first place, memory loss and generalized brain fogginess. Typically, it's more associated with, if any symptoms, headaches and seizures and things like that. Genuinely educational. Thank you, Sanjay.

Let's also put this up there on the screen as RFK Jr. pivoted the brain worm conversation to the debate. He's also challenging Trump to a debate at the upcoming Libertarian National Convention, where the two of them will be speaking. Basically, he said, it's very long, but he says, in a three-way, you are ahead, but I'm coming up strong. Two new polls have me at 15% debate threshold. Another one has me at 26% amongst young voters. So I'd like to make you an offer. We're both going to be speaking at the upcoming Libertarian Convention.

It is perfectly neutral territory for you and me to have a debate where you can defend your record for your wavering supporters. You have said you're not afraid to debate me as long as my poll numbers are decent. Well, they are. In fact, I'm the only presidential candidate in history who's polled ahead of both major party candidates

in some head-to-head races. So let's meet at the Libertarian Convention and show the public that at least two of the candidates are not afraid to debate each other. This is powerful because, Crystal, Trump has been challenging Biden day after day after day for debate. And he keeps saying, let's not wait until the presidential debates in October. Let's do it right now. Obviously, Biden is demurring.

So here, RFK is like, hey, man, all right, let's do it right now. Obviously, Biden is demurring. So here, you know, RFK is like, hey, man, all right, let's let's do it. You say you don't want to do it outside the commission on presidential debates and all that. But no response yet from the Trump campaign. In a way, though, RFK Jr. is kind of playing the same game that Trump and Biden are. Trump and Biden feel it's like beneath them to debate RFK Jr., which is BS. Like he is, you know, oh, they should debate him registering the polls. He's a consequential candidate and more debates are better, et cetera, et cetera. Apparently Jill Stein has asked RFK Jr. to debate and he's denying her the opportunity. Well, then what's going on, guys?

To do the same. You guys should all do it. So, you know, you guys all should be debating. We should get to hear this contest of ideas. Jill Stein's not registering as high in the polls as RFK Jr. is, but she's going to be. She actually has more of a path to being on the ballots in more states. And it's clearly a possibility of her being a consequential candidate in terms of, you know, the ultimate outcome of this election. I would say her views and RFK's views are more

divergent in certain respects than RFK Jr. and Trump or RFK Jr. and Biden, certainly on the question of Israel, they're much more divergent, so it would be a robust exchange of ideas. So I'm for all of these debates, and I wish they would happen, and I am not hopeful that they ultimately will. Although I guess, I don't know, what are you thinking about a Trump-Biden debate

at this point? You think it might? I would give it only 50%. Yeah, I don't know. I think Biden is a big norms guy, so he might do one. That's true. That's a good point about him.

But that's about it. I don't think we're going to get three. He's also arrogant. I'm not sure he realizes his own limitations. That's true. He's an arrogant guy. We started off our show, and even him talking about Israel, I was telling you, I'm like, oh, my God. I mean, look, I feel physical pain whenever I watch that man speak.

I cannot be the only one. And imagining that on stage for 90 minutes, say what you want about Trump. I know he's old, but he is not showing similar signs of decline. I'm not saying it can't happen quick. It certainly can, health, et cetera. But with Biden, it is clear as day. And it's very difficult. So I mean, Trump says a lot of like weird and incoherent things inexplicable things. But he says them with a lot of energy and vigor. Yeah, that's it. So with Biden, he says a lot of incoherent or imaginary things.

And it's said with, you know, he can barely get it out and he's coughing. You know, he can barely find the word, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know. The whole thing is very odd. What a sad country we live in that these are our options. If I had to guess, I think Biden does one, but I think he will only do, it's also to his benefit because where they always get tripped up is they usually have, you know, they'll have one good one or two bad ones and then it all gets kind

of mushed together. The other thing they all want to avoid is having to do one on one specific issue. So usually you do the economy debate, then you do domestic issues debate, then you do foreign policy debate. That's the old strategy. They then you do foreign policy debate. That's the old strategy. They all hate the foreign policy debate. It's always the lowest rated but sometimes the most impactful. Consequently, yeah. I don't want to do that right now, not with Israel, Ukraine, and all this other stuff happening. So if you force it all in a 90-minute conversation, that's much better for me.

I'm a stronger ground. They're much more limited. We'll see, though, in terms of what they do. I would bet that they do want, but I think they'll do it in the dumbest fashion and allow some idiot like Chris Wallace or somebody like that to do it again. So it won't be a particularly good one. It could be that you have a repeat of the first Biden-Trump debate where Biden didn't really have to do anything. Trump was such a maniac that he lost the debate for himself.

You know, you could have. So I don't think it's guaranteed that Biden is the loser of a debate versus Trump, because also, I mean, part of what people have liked about Biden in the past, although this has eroded significantly, especially as he's, you know, funded and fueled with genocide and Gaza Strip, but the sense that he's like a nicer guy, more likable guy. Yeah, he's got his problems, but I kind of like this guy. And having that contrast with Trump on stage, if Trump's coming off as a prick and an asshole, as he often does, may not be the worst thing in the world for Joe Biden. So I'm sure they're weighing all of these things. And especially, look, it's a high risk, but it's also a significant reward for him given how low the bar is, how low the expectations are for Joe Biden. We saw this with the State of the Union.

The fact that he was able to get out there and like give a speech and not have like a clear health event on national television, it seemed to actually bolster him in the polls a little bit. It has actually quieted some of the conversation about his age and his mental faculties and his ability to serve another four-year term. So maybe also they look at that and they're like, okay, well, there is something to be gained from putting himself out there. Who knows? Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone,

I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her.

And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother.

She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip hop. It's Black Music Month and we need to talk is tapping in.

I'm Nyla Simone breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was my son and my daughter

gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, cause I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too.

So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like, he's a legend.

So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? music is and they're starting to be like yo your dad's like really the goat like he's a legend so he gets it what does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family it means a lot to me just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better so the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy. Or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more

on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You say you never give in to a meltdown

and never fill your feed with kid photos. You say you never put a pacifier in your mouth to clean it. And never let them run wild through the grocery store. So when you say you'd never let them get into a car without you there, know it can happen. One in four hot car deaths happen when a kid gets into an unlocked car

and can't get out. Never happens. Before you leave the car, always stop, look, lock. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. All right, let's turn to the next one here. I wanted to get something in the show that was interesting. And, you know, this is some fascinating data, Crystal, that you highlighted on top of a new study that's come out. We love to track domestic migration here. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. So latest data that's come

out from the U.S. Census shows that record wave of Americans fled big cities, not for other big cities, but for small ones. Remote work in particular has led to a, quote, small town boom, and migration to areas under 250,000 people has topped all locations. That's actually crazy because we're talking about midsize and smaller tier cities. So they highlight a few of them in the report. But really, if you look at the overall trend line, it's absolutely fascinating. So let's go and put this up there on the screen. I encourage everybody to go read this, by the way. It's from the University of Virginia's Domestic Demographics Research Group.

And they've done a really good job here. What you see in front of you is U.S. rural county annual domestic migration. And basically what you can see is that from 2000 to basically, what is that, 2020, it is net loss. And in some cases, significant net loss. A lot of this has to do with NAFTA, with the consolidation, the decline of the American farm. You can also see also how 2008 definitely accelerated a lot of those trends as well because a lot of those people went bankrupt and they were forced to leave their property. But then all of a sudden, 2019 and 2020, massive spike of net migration, increased net migration to rural counties, over 100,000 people.

And the fascinating part is it's only stayed up. I mean, it's dropped a little bit, but it's way, way above the overall trend line. If we go to the next part here, you can actually see, too, how this is a complete reverse. If we go to the next slide, please, guys, which is annual domestic migration with over 1 million residents, you see the same thing where annual domestic migration in U.S. counties with over 1 million, they've been losing, you know, for a little while, but, you know, relatively going down. Some people were moving, but they're moving to bigger cities or 250,000 to 1 million. But here, same thing. You just see a massive drop of more than a million people there from 2020 to 2021. And it continues in the 800,000. So no real sign that things are changing. And in fact, I think what the pandemic did is it just shook things up significantly for a lot of people. changed in combination with work conditions where they're willing to move to more rural areas. They highlight one town in here, Crystal, that you may be able to speak to, which previously was,

it's like this tiny town previously known as the sweatshirt capital of Virginia. And now they have the highest wage growth in the state and they're getting their own Starbucks, which is crazy, apparently, for them. So by the way, I wouldn't want Starbucks. We got our Starbucks in King George County years back and it was very big. It was a big deal. It's still a big deal that it's there. That's where all the ladies meet, right? Yeah. I mean, this is so looking at the trends, there was this trend actually began before COVID. But like many other things, COVID accelerated it. And so since you had the uptake and the normalization of remote work, or at least like hybrid work models,

that really fueled and accelerated this trend. And one of the questions was, okay, well, was this just like a COVID era thing? Or is this a persistent change in American migration and, you know, living choices? And what's really noteworthy now is that it clearly is a persistent change. So in the early part of my, you know, professional life, it was very much the total opposite of this. So we had these rise of these superstar mega cities, the D.C., New York, San Francisco, L.A., et cetera. And they're just sucking up all the population. And rural counties in particular were really struggling because young people just they would grow up there and they would leave and no one was coming in to replace them with trade policy

that, you know, suck the industry out of many of these towns. It just it looked really dire for almost all of rural America. It looked really dire for almost all of rural America. It looked extremely dire in terms of what the future was. You can go to these towns and you can see what they used to be. And you can see how they're struggling to just maintain the roads and fill the potholes and keep the school together, et cetera, because of the loss of population and loss of tax revenue. So now we're seeing a total reversal of that dynamic where you now have, it's the cities that are going to struggle with this problem. We've talked about this ties in with the commercial real estate bust, which still looms as a major economic issue, overhang.

Actually, I just saw this Holiday Inn that's like a block from where we are right now that just sold for less than the debt that's owed on. Wow. Yes. I mean, yeah, it's crazy. If anyone wants a good deal on a holiday inn, I guess there's one just around the corner here that was for sale. But in any case, these large urban centers are going to have a major challenge on their hands to keep their vitality because when you have population decline, then you have vacancies, then a spiral effect in terms of the local businesses, the small businesses, the lunch places, the hotels, etc. And it can be very difficult to reverse that decline. Now, I mean, we've had previous cycles like this in America.

After the 1968 and the race riots, etc., you had this white flight out of cities that pretended a real era of decline in a lot of large mega cities in America as well. And then that changed around. So it's not like this is permanent and it's the end of everything, but it is really significant. It could also have some political implications too, because one of the challenges for Democrats in terms of the House of Representatives is that their voters tended to be super concentrated in these cities in a way that was not advantageous for them in terms of the congressional district split. So you have Democrats sort of like spread out a bit more across the suburban landscape, the small city landscape, the rural landscape. It could ultimately lead to some

political implications here as well. But I guess, Sagar, my big takeaway is those cities may be thankful for these Republican governors busting migrants in. They may need that new blood. They may need that increase in population. They may be thankful for it. Well, they won't be thankful for it because they're going to be on the dole for the rest of the time that they're there. But different story. Nah, these are hardworking people. Well, not for now. Give them work permits and they'll be good to go.

Maybe. We'll see. But my point would just be if I would be very worried, like you said, if I were Republicans, because you've now become so attractive that a lot of people who don't agree with you really at all are now moving into your state to take advantage. They may agree with you necessarily on tax policy or whatever, but not on abortion. We're already watching this play out in the state of Texas. Now, I'm not saying that these states are going to go blue. What I am saying is that the changes in their coalition is significantly different and will change what the future politics of the state look like, especially as these people amass wealth and power, and especially because a

lot of these people have money. And you're already watching it happen right now in Austin. I mean, Austin politics has changed dramatically just in my lifetime from the Texas that I grew up in. I'm hearing the same thing out of Houston and out of Dallas, the spread that is happening also. I mean, Texas is the biggest booming state in the country. Tiny little counties, which previously, you know, you just drive through are some of the fastest growing areas in the United States. I'm watching the same thing happen in states like Arizona, where Phoenix is one of the biggest boom towns in the US. Well, that's no coincidence that Maricopa County went blue for Biden for the very first time.

It's only more likely, especially with things like abortion to be on the ballot. I wouldn't sleep on Idaho either, from what I understand and everything I've read. Boise is a similar boom, didn't think I'd ever say that in my life, boom town. Boise is a similar boom. Didn't think I'd ever say that in my life. Boomtown, Boise, Idaho for real estate prices and from a lot of Californians. I think the same is true, I believe, of the state of North Carolina, Charlotte.

There's significant real estate boom that's happening there. I think Charleston, South Carolina, seeing similar things. And of course, Atlanta, Georgia and the changing demographics. So the politics of all of this can change significantly, both at the electoral college level and in terms of just gerrymandering in the way that we think about this. But overall, this is a very net positive, in my opinion. I think mass consolidation was a real cultural detriment to the U.S. because basically you got to places where, and even I've moved away from Washington, D.S. because basically you got to places where, you know, and even I've moved away from Washington, D.C. Moving from a place which is 98% blue to 70% blue is actually different. It's just in terms of the people you're around. And then I can't even imagine what it would be like to live from like

90% blue to like 50-50. I know you live somewhere in a different area, but I'm sure you see that as well for cultural mixing and just the type of people you're exposed to. It's good. It's important to be around people who you don't necessarily agree with or who are just very different from you at all times. Yeah. Where I live is, I think it's about 60-40, went for Trump, 60-40. So it's definitely more, it's definitely a conservative area is where I grew up. So it's very, you know, it's what I'm used to. I'm very comfortable there. I agree with you that it could be a very hopeful story because there was this previous dynamic. There was a book written by Bill Bishop, The Big Sword. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That really dug into how like minded people were clustering in

the same places. And so you could go through your life and not have to be at a school board or PTA meeting with people who had different views for you or going to get your coffee at Starbucks with people who are different. You could live in a total and complete bubble. And guess what? Human beings being the tribal creatures that they are, when you're in that bubble

and you don't have to be exposed to people with different views, you can very easily demonize them. You can think of them as monsters. You can think of them as monsters. You can think of them as enemies versus just like, you know, complex human beings who happen to have come to a different place and different conclusions or had a different cultural upbringing than you did. So if this leads to more cultural sorting, we have all this discourse about, oh, we're on the brink of civil war and we're going to tear each other apart. And part of that true polarization and sense that I think is real of the country being divided in these, you know, very stark ways is the fact that we have had so much cultural sorting into these various bubbles. And so if this reverses that a little bit, I think it will be good. I think it will be healthy for the

country. I think it is much better when you have a mix of people of different, you know, races, socioeconomic backgrounds, political views who all have to interact with each other because it really is an antidote to the easy demonization of people who are, quote unquote, different in whatever way. And in a way that, you know, Matt Taibbi really tracked this quite well in his hating book, in a way that has been, that division is very profitable for cable news industry who can just pick out one random person and, you know, use them to say, this is what everybody who disagrees with you has these terrible views and they're these terrible people or they're evil, they're the biggest threat to the country, et cetera. That becomes very powerful if you don't know those people personally, you have no experience with what they're actually all about and what they're

actually like. I mean, it's part of the core foundation of this show and why we do what we do. So maybe, possibly, it could be a very hopeful trend. And I, being a pro small town, rural person, I like to see that there's life being injected back into these communities. I think there's something precious and special there that's worth rescuing and saving. America's built on that. Coming Apart by Charles Murray, same book. Same thing. That one's a little more controversial.

No, no. Charles Murray's controversial for separate things that he wrote, not for Coming Apart. Coming Apart is one of Joe Biden's favorite books. I know. Did you know that? That's why I was, you should, it doesn't show in some of his politics, but I mean, I guess we can take it. So I recommend the book. Don't read the race and IQ stuff if you don't want to, which is in separate books, but a separate conversation. You experienced dad guilt? I hate it. She understands, but she still be pissed.

Happy Father's Day. The show may be called Good Moms, Bad Choices, but this show isn't just for moms. We keep it real about relationships and everything in between. And yes, men are more than welcome to listen in. I knew nothing about brunch. She was a terrible girlfriend, but she put me on to brunch. To hear this and more, open your free iHeart app,

search Good Moms, Bad Choices, and listen now. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community.

I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stay informed, empowered, and ahead of the curve with the BIN News This Hour podcast. Updated hourly to bring you the latest stories shaping the Black community. From breaking headlines to cultural milestones, the Black Information Network delivers the facts, the voices,

and the perspectives that matter 24-7. Because our stories deserve to be heard. Listen to the BIN News This Hour podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.