Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 6/18/25: Trump Says 'We' Control Iran's Skies, Lindsey Graham Floats Troops In Iran, Tucker Exposes Ted Cruz

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Ryan and Emily discuss Trump says 'we' control Iran's skies, Lindsey Graham floats troops in Iran, Tucker Carlson exposes Ted Cruz.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Oh, I know. Listen to High Key on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not

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We've got a big show, lots of developments out in the Middle East to cover. And we have such a packed show. We were going to actually, and I'm not even joking this time, I know it's hard for people to tell when I'm joking or not, we were going to have Dr. Turtle Boy on to cover the Karen Reed verdict.

We were so close. The verdict did not come yesterday. It should have. The judge screwed it up. It's probably going to come this morning. It's going to be not guilty, I'm telling you now. Yeah, you're here first. Maybe they'll get her on the OUI thing, the drink-in-driving. It's a really important case for not just

police abuse corruption, but also the First Amendment because Dr. Turtle Boy was charged with a bunch of different crimes for reporting on the case, literally for reporting on the case. And so far he's been victorious in all of those cases. Solidarity with Turtle Boy. Yeah, big time and just, no, we are in touch with Turtle Boy. Although not necessarily and just know we are in touch with her Although not necessarily with everything turtle boy believes in probably not But we are in touch with turtle boy and we do hope to have him on the show soon But we're following that case very closely. Maybe we'll have information to cover on

He's done incredible work on that case. So hopefully we'll have him on this week. Yeah amazing stuff Ryan We also have Brad Lander on today's show. That's a big get. He's been making headlines across the country after the dust-up yesterday in New York City. Yeah, he spent several hours in federal custody yesterday because he was demanding a warrant from masked men who were trying to haul off a New York resident. And so there's video of him, let me see your warrant, let me see your warrant, I wanna see your warrant. Because there have been people impersonating ICE agents

and using that kind of cover to commit crimes. He's demanding to see documentation that they are who they are, they arrested him. And that might upend the mayoral race. Right, so right he's currently polling around third. Right, but he and Zorahan have crossed doors to each other. So in some ways it's a boost for Zorahan. We will see how, what he thinks over the last, what he thinks about the last 24 hours will also be

joined after we cover developments out of Iran. We'll certainly cover new statements from Vice President JD Vance. Ted Cruz did an interview with Tucker Carlson that already is promising to be absolutely explosive. We have a couple of clips from that. You're gonna wanna see those. Ryan has some developments from Gaza.

Obviously many predicted that in the shadow of what was happening in Iran, there would be some truly awful news to come out of Gaza that has proven sadly accurate. So Ryan is going to break down the latest there. And Ross Barkin will join us to talk more about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez endorsing Zoran Mamdani in New York City and Ross will be here to kind of analyze what it means for the left. Yeah, Ross is a terrific independent journalist up in New York City. He's really the guy to follow if if that's what you're interested in. Yeah and then we'll be doing a live AMA so if you are a premium subscriber you can join us for that. Breakingpoints.com as a reminder, you can head over there if you want to

try out a premium subscription. Ryan, let's get into the first block here. So Trey Yankst for Fox News who interestingly a lot of kind of pro-Israel folks have been really angry about because every time that Israel targets and kills a journalist in Gaza, he stands up for them. He also is willing to interview Palestinians, but he's been reporting out of Israel for a very long time and is generally fairly sympathetic towards Israel. But it shows the lack of kind of any daylight that you're allowed as a reporter without getting criticized. But here he is just to set off this block reporting from Jerusalem.

Right now, there are ballistic missiles being fired at Israel's second largest city of Tel Aviv. Currently, missile defense systems are working to shoot down the incoming fire. We are going to take some cover here as this unfolds. You can see in the distance, interceptor rounds coming off trying to shoot down. Pull it off the tripod. And let's move inside. The flash there in the sky, explosions overhead. And again, this is the third barrage.

I said Jerusalem, he's in Tel Aviv, obviously, which is which is sustaining most of the ongoing blows that the 10th wave Iran from Iran came yet yesterday as There seems to be no sign yet of a ceasefire or slowing down of the of the back and forth here with Israel saying that Tomorrow Thursday, they're going they have some huge surprise up their sleeve Yep, that they're that they're going to that they're going to launch. Yeah And so the latest reporting is that 50 jets were striking Iran, 50 Israeli jets were striking Iran yesterday.

Reportedly the centrifuge and missile production sites, but that particular shot for Trey Yankst is a dangerous one because the Iron Dome has been breached. There have been successful strikes over the course of the last week. So you can understand why he ran for cover in that case Ryan Now to your point Trump posted yesterday. This is a 2 This is a true social post from Donald Trump yesterday all caps Unconditional surrender saw that and I was so glad that this is over. We have surrendered. I shouldn't laugh at that.

It wasn't actually us surrendering to Iran, it actually meant he had surrendered to Israel and it's just going to allow them. He's like, he thought for a while he was going to run American foreign policy, which is an understandable mistake because he ran for president of the United States and got more votes and Netanyahu did not run. Biden ran for a while, but he dropped out, if you may remember. Then Kamala Harris filled in and then all the American people who felt like voting went to the polls and elected somebody to be the president of the United States, which in the

constitution sets American foreign policy. and elected somebody to be the president of the United States, which in the constitution sets American foreign policy. That was written many hundreds of years ago. So that's not how we do it anymore. It's a living breathing document. Right. It's a living dead document. So it's not how we do it anymore.

So President Trump here has said that he's actually acknowledging that he's surrendering American foreign policy to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Meanwhile, this is A1. You can see these are installations, nuclear facilities across Tehran reportedly being obliterated, as this post on X puts it, by the IAF. Lots and lots of hits. Now the reporting Ryan about Trump and the way that he has reacted to this and it's important that you're watching what

you're seeing on your screen right now as we get into this New York Times tidbit. Greg Sargent posted it by saying pretty funny to watch quote anti-war Trump suddenly decide that war making looks totally awesome on TV and gravitate toward war with Iran literally on that basis. He was responding to this Times report that when Donald Trump woke up last Friday morning quote his favorite TV channel Fox News was broadcasting wall-to-wall imagery of what it was portraying as Israel's military genius. Mr. Trump could not resist claiming some credit for himself. In phone calls with reporters Mr. Trump began hinting that he had played a bigger behind-the-scenes role in the war than people realized. Privately, he told some confidants that he was now leaning toward a more

serious escalation, going along with Israel's earlier request that U.S. deliver a powerful bunker busting bombs." So, Ryan, that then brings us to a four, which was another post on Truth Social yesterday, immediately, immediately everyone pointed out the implication of what Trump is saying here when he goes, quote, we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. Iran had good sky trackers and other defensive equipment and plenty of it, but it doesn't compare to American made, conceived and manufactured stuff. Nobody does it better than the good old USA. So that first line in particular, we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. When you combine that with the New York Times report that

Craig Sargent posted, it's an interesting, I think, potential window into the way Donald Trump, on a substantial basis, not even just stylistically, but substantially, is now approaching this war, which is that US involvement projects strength. And there's nothing he likes more than the projection of strength. If he were here and had a fair shot to defend himself, he would say, absolutely, that's policy in and of itself. That strength, that is the policy, that is the end goal, is so that the United States looks strong and hegemonic.

And I think that's increasingly what his, quote unquote, America first foreign policy is conceived of in his own mind. The problem, and we'll talk about this in the next block, is that's not how a lot of his own allies see it. It reminds me a little bit of his approach to the tariffs in the sense that he just launches these tariffs at everybody and says the goal of them ultimately

is he's going to force China and Japan and all of these countries to the negotiating table. It's like they're all, the phone is ringing off the hook, the tariffs are working. Now Netanyahu, apparently one of the ways he was able to sell these strikes to Trump is as a way to win leverage in the negotiations. And so there's talk that, oh, he's going to have Witkoff, or he's going to send Vance to speak with various Iranian negotiators that he hasn't murdered yet, and that if he can do that, that that's a win. Except in both cases, they were already at the table. You want to talk to China or Japan about trade? Call them up.

They're happy to talk. Iran was literally already at the negotiating table. They were supposed to meet last Sunday until they killed some of the negotiators and the meetings were canceled. So then you go ahead and say, oh, one of the things we're trying to do is get them back to the table. It's like when it was first suggested to me the night of the attacks we're trying to do is get them back to the table. It's like, when it was first suggested to me the night of the attacks, that this was the way

that Netanyahu had persuaded Trump, I thought, not even Trump is that stupid. Like, that makes no sense. Like, you're already negotiating. You don't need to bomb them to negotiate with them. But apparently, that worked. That combined with look how cool war looks on TV. It's similar to the Qasem Soleimani assassination. In 2020 the Israelis came to Trump and said that they wanted to assassinate Soleimani.

And that they would, but they needed the US to do it because they don't They didn't have the they wanted the US to do it, but they would take the credit for it the credit slash blame for it Trump said no no, no, I want the credit for it. I'm gonna do it. And so he used the Saudis To reach out to the Iranians to say That hey, let's let bygones be bygones reach out to the Iranians to say that, hey, let's let bygones be bygones. Let's try to ease tensions a little bit. Yeah, I left the Iran nuclear deal, but let's live together peacefully in this world, the kind of stuff Trump says now.

And so they lure him to Baghdad for these peace negotiations. And then when he gets into a car outside the airport with a drone, they kill him and everybody in the car. And then he takes credit for it. So all of it's very similar. Pretending to use diplomacy, pretending to care about peaceful coexistence, and then salivating over, like with a real lust that's kind of disturbing. The death and carnage.

That's sort of the crux of it is that I think these TikToks are really, the TikTok, New York Times reporting, Axios reporting, they're all strategically, they're full of strategic leaks and that doesn't mean the reports are incorrect, but it's actually really hard right now to know. They might be. We're all getting lied to constantly. Totally.

And it's for different reasons too. So part of actually the implication of all that reporting is in fact that Trump was strategically, the administration at least, was strategically leaking that they were dead serious about diplomacy, and they weren't. That's one of the theories. The dead was the key. Yeah, the dead is the, that's the operative part of it. But that was, I mean, that's actually part

of one of the stories we're being sold, is that they were projecting using the media and their own public posturing to project seriousness about these negotiations. We actually still don't know whether or not that's true or whether to the point you just raised that Donald Trump's hand was forced by Netanyahu in a way that made Trump, who wants to always look hegemonic, who wants to look like he is the the embodiment of strength, like his United States the embodiment of strength, is then his hand is being

forced by Netanyahu because he feels like the United States and Netanyahu knows he feels like the United States needs to look as though it's in control and post things like quote-unquote we have total control over the skies. I don't think we still have a clear answer on what happened. I think we can have, we have good indications in these in one direction or the other, but we still don't quite know and I think that that's where you see JD Vance coming in yesterday. He got into a back-and-forth with Cassandra McDonald. We can put a five, we can roll through a five and a six actually, but he posted a really lengthy note on X yesterday

where he said, I'm seeing this from the inside and I'm admittedly biased towards our president, in parentheses, and my friend, but there's a lot of crazy stuff on social media. So I wanted to address some things directly on the Iran issue. He first notes that Trump has been quote, amazingly consistent over 10 years that Iran could not have a nuclear weapon He then see says I've seen a lot of confusion over the issue of quote-unquote civilian nuclear power and uranium enrichment But these are distinct issues He says that Iran has been found in violation of their non-proliferation obligations by the International Atomic Energy Agency And then goes on to actually Exchange a post with Cassandra McDonald Ryan who was

previously Cassandra Fairbanks am I right? Yeah that's right. Okay and she was previously sort of Bernie adjacent? Yeah I remember her in 2016 being maybe my memory is going correct me if I'm wrong down the comments but I remember her being a like super pro Bernie person in 2016. So he gets into a back and forth with her over Tulsi Gabbard's testimony that US intelligence's assessment was Iran basically was not close to having a nuclear weapon. And she said, are you saying Tulsi and the 18 US intelligence

bodies backing the opposite findings less than eight weeks ago are wrong or lying? Yes, it's true. She was an old Bernie person. So it's interesting that this back and forth is between JD Vance, who's been on his own political pipeline, and then Cassandra, who was strong Bernie supporter but felt like the Democrats had ruined what Bernie stood for. And so she went on the pipeline over to MAGA. Right. And so JD replies and says, no, I'm not saying that. First off, Tulsi's testimony was in March.

And a lot has changed since then. Second, if you look at what she said then, her point about uranium enrichment is consistent with what I wrote above. And Ryan, we are going to get into this a little bit in the next block. That is the new, I think, attempt for the quote-unquote America First anti-Neocon mega people who are supportive of Donald Trump's

approach over the last week to Israel's attacks in Iran, which are boiling pretty steadily to US, full US involvement to the the bunker buster being used, is this argument that this is all consistent because things changed since March 27th. They are genuinely very close to enrichment, et cetera. Right, but I just, does anybody believe that? Like that's the thing. That's the thing that I'm wondering about the Trump supporters. Like you guys have seen the videos of Netanyahu saying

since like the 2000 early 2000s That if you just do if you Iran is right around the corner from getting a bomb There's also some fun videos going around of him starting in 1982 Saying that if the US would just do X then terrorism will go away. And the first one is in 1982 he says if we can just get rid of the Soviet Union then their puppets, the PLO, will be destroyed and there will be no kind of Palestinian resistance movement. He says and there will be no terrorism anywhere in the world. You get rid of the Soviet Union there'll be no terrorism. He's like okay never mind, it didn't work. If you get rid of Saddam

Hussein there will be no terrorism anywhere and's like, OK, never mind. It didn't work. If you get rid of Saddam Hussein, there will be no terrorism anywhere and no instability in the Middle East. Isn't that great how that works? Ironically, of course, what did taking out Iraq do? It empowered Iran. It took Iran from a regional sub power to a regional superpower. And so now he says he'd take out Iran Then now we're not gonna have any problems anymore. No instability and he's been saying for 20 plus years

That we're right around the corner from getting a bomb and Vance. It was a very smart man Worded that for worded that response to Cassandra very cleverly. What about Tulsi? Was she wrong? And he says, no, a lot has changed since March. Right. But what did he not say there? He did not say we have new intelligence that suggests that since March, Iran is trying to make some breakout for Abang.

Because according to the intelligence assessments and all of the reporting, we do not have that intelligence and that is not the case. And the Ayatollah and the political leadership in Iran had not made that decision. They have their own reasons not to want that. They don't want proliferation in the region. Not only do they think that it would be bad for them, and they kind of built the program as a chip to trade away for getting rid of sanctions, they don't want Saudi Arabia, UAE, and all these other countries to have nuclear weapons either, because sometimes they get in conflicts with them. They went through one of the nastiest wars over the

last 50 years with Iraq. And those people fought in that war. So they have their own strategic reasons not to want that war. They don't, they, so they have their own strategic reasons not to want nuclear, but they also know if they use a nuclear weapon against Israel, Israel has second strike capabilities and they're finished. So for all of these reasons, our intelligence assessment is that they're not going for a bomb, or they were not as of a week ago. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

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on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The way that Vance says it, a lot has happened since March, that is true. NBA finals are going on. Karen Reed trial has happened since March. No lies detected.

Many things have happened since March. No lies detected. Many things have happened since March. So he can make a true statement, which is fundamentally a lie, because Tulsi Gabbard's intel assessment as of March held until the second that they were bombed. So Tulsi Gabbard, this is actually quite interesting. New reporting suggests that Donald Trump was very irked by that video we tried to cover it last week but the news cycle just got insane of Tulsi Gabbard coming out and she got really mocked for this because the video was admittedly a bit odd and we increasingly seem to know why. The video of about nuclear conflict, do you remember this? She put it out last week, and it started with Hiroshima

and Nagasaki. Oh, I missed this. See, we should have covered it. And then transitioned into a very eerie, vague warning about the imminent threat of nuclear conflict, or the looming threat of nuclear conflict, would be one way to put it. And it seems increasingly that was interpreted conflict, or the looming threat of nuclear conflict would be one way to put it.

It seems increasingly that was interpreted by people around her and was intentionally dropped because Tulsi Gabbard was concerned about potential escalation in this situation. Now, it could be the case that video was actually about Russia Ukraine, it could be the case that video was about China, it could be the case of the video was just a video. But Trump was reportedly irked by it and saw that as, you combine it with the fact that Tulsi Gabbard was left out of the Camp David meeting. Now the reporting is that she had a National Guard conflict. Which come on.

Peter Ducey reported that, well there's that, but Peter Ducey reported that she wasn't invited anyway. And so it does seem like the, you know, I think Tulsi Gabbard is sort of a, what's the right word? She'll transgress the conventional wisdom in a group. We've seen her do that, like that she has a history of doing that, whatever you think of her. And so you can understand why people who are increasingly marching in one direction would leave the dissent out of a Camp David meeting,

for example. However, let's, but I think that's the... However, let's, and not to cut you off, go back to this point a second. This is from the same New York Times article. They write, while everyone knew that Ms. Gabbard was as anti-interventionist as they come, she rarely pushed that view on the president. So congratulations to Tulsi Gabbard, who switched parties to fight regime change wars, to get into a position where you couldn't have an influence

to fight against a regime change war, and quote, rarely pushed that view on the president. Well done. What do you do, Tulsi, if you're watching, what are you doing with your life? What are you doing? Disagree, well, I mean, I kind of disagree with that. But I guess it's hard to know.

That's the thing with all of these leaks, is it's hard to know what's actually happening behind closed doors. I'd rather Tulsi Gabbard be in the administration throwing cold water on all of this. But she's not throwing cold water. I guess it's so. Throw some cold water, Tulsi.

The Politico, a senior administration official told Politico this morning, quote, certainly the video made him, Trump, not super hot on her, and he doesn't like it when people are off message. So if you're Tulsi Gabbard, obviously to remain in any position of influence you have to walk an absolute tightrope. And I guess it's just hard to know the extent to which she's done that. I'm glad that it's not, I'll just say, Bush 43 at the White House right now.

There's at least some possibility of someone raising some cold water. But yeah, you're right. I mean, it could be literally just putting out the cryptic video. Well, when she resigns in protest or gets fired, standing imitation, please come on the program and tell us exactly what you

did to fight against these Virginia change wars. And to your point, JD Vance is going to have to fill in that blank of what happened. If he wants to remain consistent and placate actually a lot of people in MAGA world, he's going to have to ultimately fill in the blank of what changed since March, especially if the United States involvement increases now the Supreme Leader Hamani has responded and said that Iran won't accept quote imposed war or Imposed peace and has warned that any United States strikes will have quote serious irreparable

Consequences the reporting is also that Iran is potentially preparing to hit US bases, that's not surprising at all, but US bases in the region, which means that we could be dragged into this, as everyone knows, at any moment, but that also that there could be deaths of US military personnel at any moment and so we are right now simmering on the edge of it doesn't look like we're heading for de-escalation in

any way whatsoever it looks like right now we're teetering on the brink of a full-blown war yeah and according to Yoav Golan we can play this here it is our obligation the United States obligation to enter into this war of their choosing. Let's play A7. I believe that the United States of America and the president of the United States have an obligation to make sure that the region is going to a positive way and that the world is free from Iran that possess nuclear weapon in the middle of the richest place in oil and gas in the world. This could be a disaster for the world. And I believe that the determination of the American president that has been shown recently

will pave the way to America to enter into this very important operation. The president of the United States has the option to change the Middle East and influence the war, and influence the world. So if you read the New York Times piece very closely, you get to parts where it just doesn't make sense. Like Trump is on the phone with Netanyahu telling him he doesn't want Netanyahu to attack Iran while he's still doing the negotiations. And he gets off the phone, he's like, well, nothing I can do.

It looks like he's going to do it. And we might have to join him. We might have to help him out. It's like, really? Otherwise we look weak from his perspective. Or you say you're not doing that and if you do we're not replenishing your weapons stocks. Yeah, that would be strange. They have their own domestic industry and there are people in Israel who have been calling for less US military support because they want to build up their own weapons industry even more than it is so that they are completely independent and can continue war endlessly without any pressure from anybody, including

us. So let them do that then. Tell them then, yeah, okay, if that's what you're going to do, you So let them do that then. It's like, tell Netanyahu, okay, if that's what you're gonna do, you're gonna do it alone. But it sounds like Netanyahu just told him what he was gonna do and basically, you're gonna help us, whether you like it or not. So what did we have the whole election for?

We covered it, we spent like a year on this dumb show covering the presidential election. Why? Should we just cover? We should cover the Israeli elections. Yeah, I guess so. Well, Donald Trump, when he first won the Republican primary, was winning a lot of votes specifically as a critic of was winning a lot of votes, specifically as a critic of American foreign policy, which led a lot of people

to categorize him sort of neatly as an anti-interventionist, which has never been true. We knew that from his first term, that that was never true. And the Times report, and we can go full circle here, that we mentioned at the beginning of this block about Trump seeing on Fox News the images of Israel bombing Iran and inching closer and closer to war. Again, that is all of this is strategic leaking. It's fog of war media information so you have to

you know learn we all have to learn from what's happened many times in the past and try the best we can to piece together the puzzle of what happened here and that's already hard enough to piece together the puzzle of what happened here. And that's already hard enough to do with Donald Trump's foreign policy because I think it's so often about optics. But that's why that particular part of the report rings true, I mean, he just spent

tens of millions of dollars on a military parade for admittedly the reason of optics. That's the, I guess. Which just killed a woman. I saw that. In the tanks. On New York Avenue here in D.C. But that is the predicate of peace through strength.

I mean, it's obviously not just optics, but that the projection of strength is the, and this is taking in good faith, obviously, that argument, and I'm not saying that the argument is being made by everyone in good faith, because certainly it's not, but that you have to look strong in order to have your foreign policy serve as a deterrent. Now the problem is that is very seductive, and it easily ends up boiling into hot conflict. That's why it's always been sort of funny to see in a tragic way, the Peace Through Strength

conservative movement repeatedly support hot conflicts from Gulf War, then you can get into Iraq, obviously, and Afghanistan, but also even just like post-Cold War skirmishes and different outposts. Peace through strength is really easy for that to just go strength, and you never actually get to the peace. Right. That would be the history of the American empire, right?

Definitely the history of the last 30 years, at least the last 30 years, but we don't quite know where this is going. We do have this quote, and again this is a Trump administration official to Dasha Bernsett Politico, quote, the movement right now is away from diplomacy and toward US involvement. We are moving toward taking out Iranian nuclear facilities. So that's what's on the table. It could happen at any moment. Yes, the logic seems to inexorably lead to a strike on the fordo and a mountain

Nuclear facility like that seems to be Like I'm making predictions but like that that's where that's where this is headed Yeah, it's hard to see. And where that goes from here. What, oil is what, up to what, 70 something a barrel now? Like oil prices are surging. Iran is threatening to mine the Strait of Hormuz, which is where half the world's oil moves through. Iranian, UAE, and Saudi oil moves through there.

Natural gas from Qatar moves through there. China has built a railway from China to Tehran to ship oil from Iran to China. It's not fully operational. I think its first maiden voyage was a couple weeks ago. But once that gets going, they'll be able to move enormous amounts of oil into China, which is where most of the Orion oil goes because of our stupid Sanctions they get it actually much cheaper than the otherwise would incredible American policy Mm-hmm

Our policy is going to be that one of the world's biggest oil producers must sell its oil at a discount To our adversary China, but that's our policy right because reasons Reasons well just before we we leave this block and get into the politics of it, the death toll right now, according to one human rights group, they're saying it's at least 585 Iranians. Wounded, that's the death toll. Wounded is north of 1,300. That's according to the group human rights activists. There are, there's other estimates that put that a bit lower. The Associated Press reports that Iran has a history of downplaying death tolls and so the

higher number might be the safer assumption in this case, but 24 dead in Israel as well and it looks, Ryan, like those numbers aren't going to slow down. Yeah, and Trump said everybody in Tehran needs to evacuate. Then he backed off of that. Israelis have said everybody, and I think District 18 in Tehran needs to evacuate, which is in the center of the city. It's a city of 10 million people. We've spoken to people who are there and are in contact with them. They said there's no gas. Like, you know when you have a crisis, you can't replenish the gas supplies, the gas

stations. So there's no gas. So if you don't have a tank of gas, you're not getting out of town. Also traffic is utterly gridlocked. And it's a city of 10 million people. So you cannot just flat evacuate it. Also, banks are shut down because of Israeli hacks. This hacker group called Predatory Sparrow, which is known to be affiliated with Israel, hacked two IRGC-linked banks, which are also very popular banks among regular people.

So people can't get their money. I'm also told that this same hacker group took down this IRGC-linked crypto company, I forget what it's called, and made off with $47 million. And so Iranians, because of sanctions, crypto is a very popular means of moving money around just between just from people overseas into Iran. Like you live in Los Angeles, just send money to your family back into Iran. Crypto is an easy way to do it. And so that has been routed. So yeah, the destruction aside from the kind of physical and material

destruction. And so you tell somebody you need to evacuate under those circumstances, like it's not going to happen. People are just going to hunker down and hope that they don't get killed. And finally, let's put this last element on screen, A8. This is the debate over war powers that is escalating in Congress. Now, obviously with Republican control of the House and the Senate, it's unlikely this is brought to the floor

or becomes a serious possibility of getting passed. But as the New York Times reports here, in the House, a Democrat or Republican teamed up on Tuesday to introduce a resolution that would require congressional approval before US troops could engage in offensive attacks against Iran. The measure by Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey underscored a view held by many in Congress that Mr. Trump should not be able to decide on his own whether the US wades deeper into the conflict. Now, Senator Tim Kaine on Monday introduced a similar resolution the time says referring to the upper chamber there and Brian this is I can't believe we're even is so quaint and so obvious that this is Should not be covered by the AUMF

But here we are and it's it's hardly making a rip Do they even claim that it's covered by the AMF? The AMF passed in 2002 is aimed at al-Qaeda and its allies. Al-Qaeda and Iran, basically a war. And outwork. And Soleimani, of course. Yeah, and right, exactly. To the extent that al-Qaeda existsists as it used to like Iran is there is Iran is our adversary. So trying to use it In that context would be absurd. I think they're just they're not even caring. No, they're just they're just gonna do it. And so

Tim Kaine has put forward in the Senate and a Massey in the house a War Powers Resolution And Bernie Sanders has put forward in the Senate and a Massey in the House, a War Powers Resolution. And Bernie Sanders has put forward in the Senate a bill that would basically say you can't, that would block the use of funds for an attack on Iran. We asked him, Cain, why he went this route rather than blocking funds. And Cain told us, Dropside will have a story later today, teaming up with the prospect, actually, that he wanted something privileged. Privileged means the leadership in the House and Senate

cannot block it. That's why Massey would have done the resolution that way, too. So it has to at least come to the floor for a vote. The bite that it has is less than if you pull funds. Because saying, hey, we say you can't do this. It's unconstitutional. Presidents have been like, whatever.

Pick a hike. We're doing it anyway. But they're going to at least put people on record. Or that's the hope gonna at least put people on record or that's that's the hope at least and could get up to I think they're at what 27 or 30 co-sponsors at this point. That'd be incredible. Right but it's yeah but it still the raises the question of where why isn't the Democratic Party seizing this opportunity? Like, A, you think Trump is a tyrant. He manhandled a senator last week, indicted a Democratic member of Congress last week

for some ICE stuff, or two weeks ago. Yesterday, he arrested a, I mean, he as in ICE, a Democratic mayoral candidate in New York. You think this guy's a tyrant, you don't think he has legal authority to launch this war, and you're just gonna kinda sit back and let Tim Kaine and Bernie Sanders and Massey do something. Ro Khanna called out,

I think he's gonna be on the program Friday, Ro Khanna called out Schumer for Schumer's response was, if we decide we're gonna do it, we will definitely assert our authority. Like what? I mean, if you decide you're gonna, kind of thing is that to say? Like do it or don't do it.

So in other words, you're not. Which goes- But this is why Congress should vote on these decisions. This is exactly why Congress should be forced to vote on these decisions. Yeah, of course. People should, in a republic, should have a say in this stuff.

Completely insane. But here we are. Yeah. So yeah. You can call your member of Congress, tell them to co-sponsor this resolution, this War Powers resolution, so at least there's some counter pressure.

Yeah. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeart really bad. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder.

I'm Catherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. I've never found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator

to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Perlman and this is Rick Jervis. We were interns at the Nashville Tennessean, but the most unforgettable part? Our roommate, Reggie Payne from Oakley, sports editor and aspiring rapper. And his stage name? Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie. We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone.

In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode. His mom called 911. Police cuffed him face down. He slipped into a coma and died. I'm like thanking you, but then I see my son's not moving. No headlines, no outrage, just silence. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

you get your podcasts. Ryan, speaking of counter pressure and the degree to which it may or may not exist in the West Wing and in the Republican Party, let's transition to this next block where we're gonna start here with Lindsey Graham on Fox News yesterday, making a statement that then reverberated across X, and particularly with people who are typically allies of Donald Trump

who are influential voices on the right. So let's first roll Lindsey Graham on Fox News and then get into the reaction that it set off. Can you guarantee that? Can President Trump in any form? I can't. Can you make the commitment that this would not lead to a longer war? I can guarantee you that if the eye to look at some nuclear weapon he will use it I believe that with all my heart and soul so the men and women who served there the ones going not people answering a poll and if you ask them would you be willing to risk your life to stop the eye to look from having a nuclear

weapon all of them would say yes because it makes their country our country safer. So we live in a world where you've got to confront problems. You want to avoid World War III, learn the lessons from World War II. People in World War II appeased Hitler to the point that it got so much out of hand. We had a world war and 60 million people got killed. So we live in a world where you pay now or you pay later. I hope it's eliminated. I would like to see this regime fall, but I'm going to leave it

up to the president as to what to do and when to do it. But I do know this, if we don't take out their nuclear program now, we'll all regret it. We're very close. Be all in, Mr. President, in helping Israel finish the job. And let's see where we're at after we neutralize their nuclear program. So it goes without saying that Charlie Kirk is obviously very close to Donald Trump, very close to the White House, and particularly close to Donald Trump Jr.

This, B-2, is how Charlie Kirk responded to Lindsey Graham's statement that he would like to see the regime fall. He says, this is insane. Regime change will result in a bloody civil war, killing hundreds of thousands and creating another massive Muslim refugee crisis. Toppling a leader is never as easy as you think.

It almost always results in further involvement, a civil war and chaos. Resist this. Mount Walsh of the Daily Wire responded, Lindsey Graham is calling for a full-scale invasion of Iran for the sake of, quote, fighting for our freedom. This is insane, reckless madness from a warmongering asshole who spent an office for 30 years and never done a single thing to make life better for Americans. Every single, every true America first conservative

should reject this maniac and everyone like him, referring to Lindsey Graham, a regime change war in the Middle East has never made Americans freer. Ryan, obviously the goal right now of Lindsey Graham and his allies is to convince the NIGA world that this time is different. You mentioned this earlier. This time, JD Vance, to the point that he was responding to Cassandra McDonald about, this time there is different information since March and trust us when we say it. This time, we're just, you know, we're the good guys here. We will be greeted as liberators this time. This time, we are not Colin Powell in front of the UN.

Things really did change since March, for example, and that's where they find themselves right now, which is quite interesting because they've dined out for the last decade on criticizing Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld and all of those genuine neoconservatives. They've dined out for about a decade on slamming them and doing it, to borrow a word you used earlier in the show, lustily, with great glee. And here they find themselves, apparently, listen, maybe this time is different, seems

unlikely, maybe, and here they find themselves in the same exact situation. And to give credit to the MAGA movement, it is willing to have debates over policy to give discredit to the MAGA movement because everyone is so loyal to Trump and because Trump takes loyalty so seriously and holds such long grudges, those debates can never include criticism of Trump. So in this case, Lindsey Graham presents a nice target for people who want to criticize Trump's policy here, but don't want to criticize Trump. So when Lindsey Graham goes so far out on a limb and says such extreme stuff, it's like,

okay, now we feel free because Lindsey Graham has had his ups and downs with Trump. He's tight with him, but he's also like said he's done with him. You know, remember Trump gave his phone number out at a rally. Yeah, that's like 2016 vintage. So Lindsey Graham is fair game in within Maggots. You can hit him. And so they're kind of taking that opportunity Marjorie Taylor green and Matt Gaetz meanwhile making an awful lot of sense. Let's roll. Let's roll them on Oh a oh a n Matt. I see it And you laid that out so well, that's the America first message But it's also the truth that the American people have woken up to we've watched for decades

but it's also the truth that the American people have woken up to. We've watched for decades propaganda news. I'll call out Fox News and the New York Post. They're known to be the Neocon network news. We have propaganda news on our side, just like the left does. And the American people have been brainwashed into believing that America has to engage in these foreign wars in order for us to survive.

And it's absolutely not true. Prime Minister Netanyahu said, I saw on video, he said today that America first is America dead. And that sounds like a threat to me. And I completely, completely disagree with him on that. Can OAN get a better mic for Marjorie Taylor Greene? You're on cable. You lobbied Congress to force cable companies to pay you so you could be on cable.

Use some of that money to send her a mic. Come on. What are you doing? What are you guys doing here? You should send it to her just as a courtesy. I'll send her a mic if she'll use it. Let's jump to B6 before we get to Bill Mitchell. B6 is Donald Trump Jr.

And I need you to unpack this for us. So Psobiec says he's close to Bannon and close to Trump. When people warn that regime change war would break up the MAGA coalition, consider that that is exactly what the neocons want. The anti- never Trumpers and then Trump jr says this is 100% right. I'd add neocons and Democrats. And that's why I think my criticism, by the way, should be taken even more seriously because I recognize that if you go to war, this probably does blow up the mega coalition, which, hey, fine.

I'd rather that the mega coalition stay together and we don't get war. But it's true that for a lot of the like Rich Lowry types and others who want war, and actually this is a good opportunity to put up Bill Mitchell before you respond to that. So put up B5. Yeah, this is important. Yeah. B5 is Bill Mitchell, who became this kind of Democrat, basically, right?

But he says, has anyone considered the possibility that America has miraculously survived so many close calls over the centuries, is that our purpose is to defend Israel. If we quit Israel, I believe God may quit us, and I'm not prepared to take that chance. Am I, didn't Bill Mitchell become kind of anti-Trump? Israel if we quit Israel I believe God may quit us and I'm not prepared to take that chance am I Did has didn't Bill Mitchell become kind of anti Trump? I think he's sort of like

He's he's known as like hardcore Maga to the point of being almost like the caricature of a maga boomer on X but I think he may have then like moved away from it a bit, but that is a and I you know, there were some people on the right mocking that post or expressing just real opposition to what's in that post that's reflective of what we've talked about before, dispensationalism, fairly common evangelical approach to Israel Ryan's giggling.

And it's basically, yeah, what he's saying is that, and he's taking it even, he's making it even more political than the basic theory is, but dispensationalism is that Israel plays a role, obviously, that political Israel, not the sort of historic nation of Israel, but that political Israel, not the sort of historic nation of Israel, but that political Israel as the nation state that exists right now in 2025, plays a role in the end times.

And then politically, that has nudged a lot of evangelical Christians. I think Mike Huckabee has sort of played very carefully with this in the past, but I think probably including Mike Huckabee. Oh, definitely. Yeah, that, and everyone remembers his text message to Trump from yesterday, which was sort of, I think the implication of it is that he's thinking of this like Bill Mitchell,

told Donald Trump that God saved him for a reason and then said he wasn't leaving Israel. Huckabee said he wasn't leaving Israel. Please bring upon the apocalypse. It felt like that. You could read into it that way. Yeah. So this is what's being pushed back on by everyone else. So Trump Jr., not that he has a whole lot of influence on Trump Sr., but what should

we read into Trump Jr. cautioning against the very regime change war that his father now seems to be getting excited about. So Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Trump Jr. These people are very close to each other and I think- And Vance is kind of- And Vance is very in that, yes, absolutely. And reporting is that JD Vance has politely opposed, we were talking about Tulsi earlier, but that JD Vance has internally politely opposed this. Again, we don't know how much of that is true.

Could just be strategic leaks from the Vance camp to sort of cover himself, but that's what's been suggested. So my best guess, Ryan, is that what this is is genuine opposition. We keep hearing the Charlie Kirk's say, trust Trump. We keep hearing JD Vance saying, he trusts the commander in chief. We've heard a couple of others say that politicians, elected officials, Republican MAGA elected officials say that in the last 48 hours that they just trust Donald Trump's instincts on all of this. So I think my best guess is that they are inclined to be very skeptical, suspicious, and opposed to what's happening, and have expressed that privately, but are publicly trying to play both sides,

and look like they're skeptical and suspicious of it, so they're taking every opportunity to lash out at Lindsey Graham. He can kind of be the whipping boy here, so that it makes it look like they're not fully neoconservative even as Donald Trump considers doing exactly what Lindsey Graham is calling for. All right, well. That's my best guess. All right, I mean, hey. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. on May 21st and episodes four, five and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcasts. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Catherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people

across the country, begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murderer of my husband. It's a cold case. I've never found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try.

She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murderline

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Perlman, and this is Rick Jervis. We were interns at the Nashville Tennessean, but the most unforgettable part, our roommate, Reggie Payne, from Oakley, sports editor and aspiring rapper.

And his stage name? Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie. We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone. In February, 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode. His mom called 911. Police cuffed him face down.

He slipped into a coma and died. I'm like thanking you. But then I see my son's not moving. No headlines, no outrage, just silence. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's move from there to Tucker,

because I think that's a good segue into this. Much now, much anticipated interview. Ted Cruz sat down with Tucker Carlson for his cabin podcast and Tucker has so far released two clips. Ted Cruz already salty about the clips that have been released. The entire podcast episode is not out yet but it appears like it's going to be Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz arguing about war with Iran for a very long time. Let's roll the first bit. How many people live around by the way? I don't know the population. At all?

No, I don't know the population. You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple? How many people live in Iran? 92 million. OK. Yeah, I- How could you not know that? I don't sit around memorizing population tables. Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government. Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80 million or a hundred million? Why is that relevant? Because if you don't know anything about the country. I didn't say I don't know anything about the country. Okay, what's the ethnic mix of Iran? They are Persians and

predominantly Shia. Okay, this is... No, you don't know anything about Iran. So, actually the country... I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran. You're a senator who's calling for the overthrow of the government and you don't know anything about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. No, I'm not saying that. You're the one who can't figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Soleimani and you said it was bad. You don't believe they're trying to murder Trump?

Yes, I do. Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation. And if you really believe that... We're carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was. Right, with our help. I've said we. Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

Well, you're breaking news here because the US government last night denied, the National Security Council spokesman Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity at all. We're not bombing them. Israel's bombing them. You just said we were. We are supporting Israel. It's high stakes.

You're a senator. If you're saying the United States government is a dead. No, we're with Iran right now. People are listening. Now, one reason some of this might be important. Sagar flagged this this morning. Let's put up B9. So this is the Iraq war coverage is extremely important to go back over because so much of what we're seeing today

directly mirrors what we saw in 2001 and 2 in the lead-up to the 2003 invasion. And I'll just read from this. Quote, during, this looks like the New York Times font, during their conversation with the president, Peter Galbraith claims, it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites. Galbraith reports that the three of them

spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam, to which the president allegedly responded I thought the Iraqis were Muslims and so Emily I've seen a lot of people defending Ted Cruz here saying look If you don't have to read the CIA world world fact book about every country You know whether or not you want to invade them and you know Cruz's point There is like doesn't matter if there's 80 million or 110 million.

You could say, OK, maybe that particular data point doesn't matter, 70 to 110 million. It's 50, 40, 50 million people we're talking about here. But OK, fine. Let's grant that. The ethnic breakdown is so important, because what happened in Iraq? Just think about it.

What actually happened after we invaded? Exactly what Peter Galbraith, by the way, warned would happen. He said, hey, right now you have a Sunni minority who is in control of the country in the form of Saddam Hussein. There's a Shia majority, and there's a Kurdish population up in the north that do not like Saddam Hussein. And in fact, there was a no-fly zone at the time, kind of basically creating a de facto independent Kurdish region in the north.

If you get rid of Saddam Hussein, Iran is going to arm and empower Shia militias who are going to spark a sectarian civil war in Iraq. That's what was predicted. And if you didn't know these basic facts about the country, you would not be able to do that analysis. So to say that, oh, Iran is Persian and, you know, predominantly Shia, is to then say, well, we'll knock off one Shia ayatollah and we'll get a, we'll put a Shia, you know, we'll throw in the Shah's kid. And everything will be fine. Your colleague, Zorab, over at Unheard, Amani, wrote a piece recently that actually,

and maybe that's where Tucker got it. Maybe he read that and was like, oh, this sounds very familiar. He wrote a piece saying, look, yes, there are a lot of Shia Persians in Iran, but it's like barely a majority. In fact, it doesn't even include the Ayatollah, who's a Zary. You have a Kurdish region in the northwest, which we love to foment.

Anywhere we can find a population anywhere that is interested and that has some skepticism of the metropole, we'd love to go in and Send them some weapons and some encouragement some weapons and some encouragement This express your national interests. Yeah, go ahead What you know we do that everywhere and We're not the only ones that know how to do that. So if you create this power vacuum and you have half the country fighting the other half the country, fighting other sex of the country, that seems like something we should consider before we go into war.

So that's why I think it's not fair to say that Tucker was asking him trivia questions. Yeah. asking him trivia questions. Yeah, no, I mean, listen, I think Tucker's using those questions as a way, a clever way to make a point. And so- Ted Cruz is like the smartest, one of the top five smartest senators. IQ wise, he's up there for sure. Yeah, he's-

Like he and Mike Lee and Bernie Smart, I can't tell. I think he's pretty smart. I think he's pretty smart, yes. So, Cruz responded, quote, did a long interview with Tucker. He released a snippet playing a quote, gotcha on the population of Iran. I decline to play that silly game. Watch the full two hour interview

where Tucker attacks Trump, attacks the AIPAC lobby, and falsely claims Iran is not trying to assassinate Trump. So, Cruz, interestingly enough, is advertising this video as heavily as Tucker, if not even more heavily than Tucker. He also reposted an attempt to criticize Tucker that said, Tucker, what's the Ayatollah's favorite color?

Ted Cruz, I don't know. Tucker, how then can you support an attack on Iran? Cruz, because they're building nuclear weapons I want to destroy America and Israel Tucker that's ridiculous you told me his favorite color is blue so yeah I mean like again Ted Cruz makes a point that I think actually red obviously his favorite color is red yeah come on so easy it's so easy he loves our lighting source to say but here at breaking boys but an homage to the Ayatollah. Yeah, yeah. People are gonna believe it when you say that.

Right? He's trying to, Tucker's trying to make a very legitimate point. Ted Cruz, I think, has a fairly legitimate response, where he says, what does it matter whether the population is 80 million or 100 million or 92 million? That's fine, I'll give him that. That is a perfectly legitimate response.

But what Tucker's trying to get at with that line of questioning has he built to what is the ethnic breakdown of Iran is exactly what Sager pointed out, is that we sit here and play risk from air-conditioned conference rooms in Washington, D.C. basically, and then a bunch of poor American kids

end up getting dragged into it, and you kill a bunch of civilians. I mean, already 70 women and children have reportedly been killed over the last week in Iran. So that's already happening. And so it's easy, I think, to get caught up, especially when we look back and comparing what happened in the early days of the buildup in Iraq and Afghanistan it's just

so so easy to get caught up in war as a culture war as a war as like actual war and I think Tucker's making a perfectly legitimate point I'm excited to watch the full two hours here I think we I think we know what Ted Cruz is going to say but you made a point early in the show, I found it interesting that at least MAGA is willing to debate these sort of things. I guess that's true, I mean, this is two pretty high profile mainstream MAGA voices sitting down and yelling at each other

and encouraging people to watch their argument. I guess that's a glass half full take. And notice what Ted Cruz used as two of his retorts to Tucker Carlson in his tweet. Tucker Carlson criticized Trump. Yep. Like, that's his argument. His argument is not, I was right about XYZ. It's Tucker Carlson said something mean about Trump.

So therefore, Tucker Carlson said something mean about Trump. So therefore Tucker Carlson should be rejected And then he also says and Tucker Carlson doesn't believe That the Iranians are trying to kill Trump, right? Which there's this this whole thing that won't like That there was this Intel report which apparently Trump does not believe either right? That that he thinks that this was the deep state Lying to him to try to manipulate him. Mm-hmm That this this claim that Iran was actually trying to kill Trump. There's much more evidence that Ukraine

Did you follow that one assassin? Yeah, much more of us in Ukraine was actually or somebody in Ukraine We should go somebody in Ukraine. actually, or somebody in Ukraine. We should cover that assassination attempt more in depth. You can go Google it. There's this indictment where one of the guys who tried to kill Trump was in communication with Ukrainians. Like, what? So let's go bomb them, I guess. But Tucker's response was, you don't really think that Iran is trying to kill Trump, because

if you did, you would support bombing them right now for that, and you don't. You support bombing them over the claims of nuclear enrichment or whatever. So he's basically saying nobody believes it, and it's all just a lie. And so the question going forward then is how Donald Trump reacts. I mean, obviously, he's been very critical of Tucker Carlson just in the last several days. But does Trump continue siding with Tucker or continue siding with Ted Cruz over Tucker or does Trump who is always putting his ear to the ground on his base as far as his base is concerned?

Remember even he was concerned that Netanyahu had a quote unquote public relations problem in Gaza about a year ago. So does Trump falter on any of this or does he see this ultimately in his best interest, or does he see this as something that's necessary for him to do in order to maintain the support of his own coalition, including, like he knows, for example, Tucker, he thinks that Tucker will always be with him.

I don't think that's the case, but he thinks that he can keep Tucker and Tom Jr. and Charlie Kirk on board, which I think that is probably true. And Tulsi Gabbard, I don't know about that, but can he do that and still keep Mary Madeleine happy? Can he do that and still keep Ted Cruz happy? And the people who believe the same things that Ted Cruz does,

can you keep those people happy? And does he think it's more important to keep those people happy? Does he agree with it's more important to keep those people happy? Does he agree with him? We just honestly have no idea at this point. And that's the huge open question. So the other clip Tucker released is them going back and forth on Mossad spying

on the United States. Let's roll this one. Does Mossad share all of his intelligence with us? Probably not, but they share a lot. We don't share all of our intelligence with them, Oh, probably not, but they share a lot. We don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot. It's a close alliance. Do they spy domestically in the United States?

Oh, they probably do, and we do as well. And friends and allies spy on each other. And I assume all of our allies spy on us. And that's okay with you? You know what? One of the things about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are all... Part of the reason about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are all part of the reason socialism doesn't work is, is the

the mantra from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs doesn't work as a conservative. I assume people act in their rational self-interest. So it's conservative to pay people to spy on you. It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self-interest and every one of our friends spies on us And I'm not do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it. Of course they do I understand that and I and by the way, I'm not mad at them and you're an American lawmaker So I just want to know hold on. I want to know your attitude

You said that your guiding principle in fact the only the only principle, the only criterion. I said guiding, the overwhelming, I wouldn't say only. Is it in America's interest? Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president? It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it. And you want to see the clear? But I just want to stop on the spying for a second.

It takes place, as you know, including on the president of the United States and several precedents. And I just want to know if that's okay and why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us? I'm sorry, I know why you want to. I'm not mad at you, but you're not allowed to. Sure. And I don't care for it.

I don't want to be spied on by you. It's kind of kind of weird not to say that but you don't seem able to say that You know what Tucker's poking out there is is this long time argument from critics of Israel that Israel is not a very good ally. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm and he and Tucker's saying like look I don't blame them. They're looking out for their own interests, right and fine, but we are Americans we're looking out for their own interests, right and Fine, that's what but we are Americans. We can look out for our own interests and if they're gonna constantly spy on us Well, you know Boris Johnson famously said he thought Netanyahu himself bugged his bathroom Mm-hmm when he stayed at his place the Netanyahu is always coming with these massive diplomatic bags and people like Ha ha. It's funny that he is having his laundry washed here.

What else do you think he's bringing in there? It's not just his laundry. Wait, no, the laundry actually isn't, yeah, that's a thing. It's this thing that he brings dirty laundry because it's free laundry service for foreign leaders. To get the Watergate or something. Yeah. And everybody laughs about it.

It's like, morons, he's bringing in more than his laundry. It's not, it's never just laundry. It's never just laundry. Yeah, I mean, the idea is that our ally, or that our interests are always aligned, right? That's the line that Tech Cruise is trying to pitch. They were caught, somewhat recently, putting a whole bunch of scanners around the White House. Right, and what caught somewhat recently putting a whole bunch of like scanners around

the White House. Right. And what Carlson is saying there is that the interests of the United States and Israel are not always aligned in some pretty significant ways. But also, I think he referred to them in that clip as a client and client state. And so I think the point that he's making is that Israel's interests should, as a client state, as he said, but I mean, either way, they work 20% of their military budget annually,

and they've said that they wouldn't be able to prosecute the war in Gaza if it weren't for us. So if you are that dependent on another nation, you may think it's in your interest to spy on that nation, but you, Ted Cruz, as a representative of that nation, should tell them not to to because you have the power And this is what we're talking about earlier in the show when you mentioned that actually if Trump is interested in projecting strength strength would be coming out and telling Netanyahu to

Cut it out and seeing you know what how that would go and you know It's it's a fair point from Tucker Obviously that if you again want the United States to be so supportive of Israel to the point where Israel is dependent on the United States for its actual existence, which is obviously the case from their perspective and from Ted Cruz's perspective,

then shouldn't you tell them maybe not to spy on the United States and not just give them that tacit, hey, everybody does it, so go on ahead and tap our phones and our White House and all that. It seems reasonable. Seems reasonable. Seems reasonable. Nothing is reasonable about this though. No.

Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Catherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case.

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