Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 6/4/24: Biden Shamelessly Copies Trump Border Policy, Hunter Biden Trial Begins, Wall St Panics Over GameStop Stock, Fauci Perjury In Congress

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss Biden shamelessly copies Trump border policy, Hunter Biden trial begins, Wall St threatens roaring kitty over GameStop, Fauci perjury in Congress on Covid.    To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Good morning, everybody. Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed, we do a lot of interesting things that are unfolding today. So Joe Biden expected to sign an immigration executive order that could effectively end asylum as we know it. So we'll talk about that, both the policy and the politics surrounding it. Meanwhile, his son is in court today facing gun charges, obviously an extraordinary development there. So we'll take you inside the courtroom. Roaring Kitty is back, but many on Wall Street not very happy about it. And there also was a whole stock market meltdown situation yesterday, a lot going on there to get into.

Fauci was grilled yesterday. We've got a great guest on to break down some of the highlights and lowlights there. The FBI actually doing something good for a change, raiding a corporate landlord over a major price-fixing scandal. This is something we've been covering for a while. You guys probably remember this algorithmic price-fixing situation. So this is related to that. We also have the very latest on that Biden ceasefire proposal

and indications of who exactly may be standing have the very latest on that Biden ceasefire proposal and indications of who exactly may be standing in the way of ending that war and returning the hostages. We also have Ben Smith on. He's launching a new podcast focused on the media. We're going to talk to him about that and also about Vivek Ramaswamy taking a significant stake in BuzzFeed where Ben used to work. So lots to get into today. Yes, that's right. As Crystal said. Now, before we get to that, we just have almost everybody has actually made it across the local. So thank you to all of our premium subscribers. We have a couple of stragglers who are out there who have been asking why their Spotify playlist hasn't updated. It sounds like

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As Crystal said, though, some major news. President Biden expected this morning to sign an executive order on immigration. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. The Wall Street Journal broke the news just yesterday. So we're going to go ahead and read some of the details. The details are pretty interesting. The executive order, quote, would ban migrants who cross the southern border illegally from claiming asylum. It is a last resort effort to quell voter discontent with his handling of immigration ahead of the presidential election. So the details of the plan itself are expected to close the southern border after 2,500 migrants have crossed per day. This is similar to some of the policies that were proposed in the previous bipartisan immigration bill that we'll all recall that fell apart.

Now, the interesting part here is some of both the politics and the policy. Immigration remains at the top of the polls for voter concern in some of the latest Gallup and Pew research, which we'll get to in a little bit. And it also validates, or actually, I'm curious what you think, Crystal. There was a ton of criticism at the time. A lot of Republicans said, we don't need to sign this bill because the president can just do it unilaterally. President Biden said, no, I can't do it unilaterally. And now effectively validating that concern and saying, no, no, no, I can do it unilaterally. So anyway, at the very least, he certainly undercut many of the things that he said in the past. I don't think there's any mistaking that this is very obviously a

political move and not in response to any sort of policy change or some well-considered process there. Also, of course, comes on the heels of this new presidential election in Mexico. Ryan Grimm, by the way, will be doing a lot of segments about that. But I want to get your reaction specifically to that part, because that does seem to be the most controversial part of this decision here. Yeah, on those pieces, you and I definitely agree. It is a decision that comes directly out of political calculation and also, I would say, political cowardice, it is unlikely to survive legal scrutiny. And you can only imagine, you know, not only is he a hypocrite because five seconds ago,

he was saying he can't do this on his own. And then he's like, by the way, I'm going to do this on my own. To which, you know, there actually was some truth to what he was saying before, because on a practical level, they don't have the money to implement this executive order. So I'm opposed to it on moral grounds. But even if you support it, it's not like they're going to magically be able to snap their fingers and have enough enforcement capability and enough deportation capability

to be able to actually implement the executive order. So on practical grounds, it fails. In my opinion, on moral grounds, it fails. On legal grounds, Trump tried to do something very similar and it was struck down in the courts. In that article from the Wall Street Journal, they even indicate Biden's own aides know that it is likely illegal and unlikely to survive legal scrutiny, but they're doing it as a political ploy anyway. And as we've discussed before, and I think you agree with me, I think it's a political failure as well.

Because if your goal is to win over people whose number one issue is, I want more hardline immigration policy, like you're never gonna convince them that you're gonna be more cruel and heartless and aggressive and hawkish towards the border than Donald Trump. And we'll show this later. I've mentioned the study a few times, but they did a bunch of research on there. Joe Biden is far from the first sort of like center left liberal politician to try to make similar hardline

immigration moves. And there was a comprehensive study done of similar moves that were done by European leaders. And they found that they didn't win over any of the immigration hardliners and they demoralized their own base. So, you know, I think it's foolish. You can only imagine the freak out from Democrats that would be occurring right now if it was Donald Trump implementing this order. I think it's illegal. I don't even think they can implement it. So to me, it's just a mess all the way around. Yeah, you're very right. It is very unlikely to survive legal scrutiny. President Trump tried this several times when he was in office. This

is part of the issue with much of our immigration law. I mean, I do support the ideas in principle of long thing. Our asylum system is incredibly stupid. And then most of these people are just economic migrants in particular. But as you said, this is a political move. I mean, the truth is, is that if you really believed in this so-called cap, then why have you been doing it for three years straight? And there's some 8 million people who have come here illegally and just under the Biden administration. That's not my numbers. That's according to the Biden administration's Department of Homeland Security in terms of what that looks like with a multi-year backlog in terms of any of these people ever even possibly getting to asylum court

and what the hell that deportation process even looks like if that were to ever occur. Now, to reference the polls that you talked about, let's put this up there on the screen, because this is the actual reason that this is all happening. The New York Times did a comprehensive review of all of the polling around immigration, and it shows that the current system is deeply unsustainable to a previous status quo, where Americans both broadly supported comprehensive immigration reform and positive net migration with a largely upward trend direction. What they find, though, actually, is, quote, more recent surveys have found that the number of people who believe immigration is generally beneficial to the

country's culture and economic growth has eroded from the recent high. A small but growing minority of Americans are increasingly concerned about its impact on drugs, crime, taxes, and national identity. For example, on April 30th, they found that for the third straight month, most Americans cite immigration as the most important problem facing the United States. And that is the longest stretch that the issue has topped the survey in 24 years of Gallup history. Next, if we look actually, a Pew study in February found that 70% of Republicans described the challenges of the southern border as a crisis, with just 22% of Democrats. Another poll found last year that 73% of Republicans want immigration to be decreased, so that is a super majority of the Republican Party. But largely, things are trending in a

very different direction from where they were previously. Now, that's not to say, though, that some of the status quo does not remain. For years, a plurality of American voters still say that they want a compromise with lawmakers and equal priority to providing legal pathways to citizenship for undocumented, or they say undocumented immigrants, for the country, as well as border security and strong law enforcement measures. So there is kind of a general consensus about what some sort of grand bargain would look like. But of course, nobody really trusts each other. The Democrats largely want comprehensive immigration reform first, maybe some border security later. The Republicans are like, no, we want the border security, the deportation, the security now, and then maybe comprehensive immigration reform later.

That's largely been the major sticking point also about who gets comprehensive immigration reform, who qualifies, whether it's previous people or here. We can go on this all day. What we can at the very least say is the hypocrisy of the Biden administration being flagged, Crystal, as you referenced, by a lot of leftists. Let's put this up there. After years of decrying Trump era immigration policy, Biden is actually exploiting the same section of US Code 212F that Trump used for the so-called Muslim ban and now to do the Hispanic migrant ban. The order will announce we will use the Section 212F of the Immigration Nationality Act to

dramatically limit the migrant ability to seek asylum at the southern border once encounters reach a new threshold. Administrations have discussed 4,000 daily border crossings over the course of a week as the metric. And given just the numbers, I believe the validated numbers from the Department of Homeland Security just a couple of days ago was over 5,000, not in a week, in a single day, then that would obviously result in an immediate closure. So there's quite a bit of crow that's happening, I think, for the Biden administration here, Crystal, as you said, because they decried this as like a crime against humanity and they exploited it and they raised all this money and, you know, drug their foot. They reversed everything they possibly could. There's a

new Time magazine piece out just this morning where President Biden says that one of his only mistakes on immigration is that he didn't rescind or that he didn't implement more humanitarian measures enough earlier when he was in office. And then at the very same time, he's basically recopying Trump administration policy on top of also actually funding more border, okay, he won't call it a wall, but border security that happens to translate to a wall along the border. So there's just a lot of doublespeak that's happening right now. Yeah, when it was Trump, this was fascism. And now Biden's like, I can do fascism too. I mean, you remember he even went to the border

and was like, hey, Trump, let's work together. How about we do your fascist border policy that five seconds ago I was decrying? And now here he is using the very same tactics, which again, have already been deemed illegal. I mean, asylum policy is written into American law and international law. And so to just sort of like end it with an executive order, very unlikely to survive legal scrutiny. They know that this is purely a political move, a foolish one at that, and exposes them as complete and utter hypocrites. I mean, to go back to the polling, there is no doubt about it that immigration has risen as a concern for American voters. And you and I don't even disagree that the current asylum process is broken, largely because what happens is

you have people who have realized that they can come across the border, they can claim asylum. And because the court system is so backlogged that it will likely be years before those claims are adjudicated. And you know what? The American people understand that too.

That's why part of the polling that you referenced there, sorry, of 60%, including 40% of Republicans who say, hey, one thing that's like obvious that we should do here is increase the number of immigration judges and staff members so that process can work more effectively. You also have 56% of Americans who actually think we need more legal pathways to citizenship, which I agree with because part of how you end up with a chaotic situation at the border and so many people coming over illegally is when there are effectively no legal pathways to citizenship. So there is, while Americans are mixed on immigration,

their views are complicated, their views are ever-changing, there is somewhat of a consensus out there in the public. But I wouldn't even say the problem between Democrats and Republicans is ideological. The problem on a lot of levels is political. You know, Democrats, this last, quote-unquote, bipartisan bill that was offered did not have any comprehensive immigration reform in it. It was all on the enforcement side.

And Republicans wanted to keep it as an election issue. And Trump urged them to keep it as an election issue. So, you know, it was blocked. I'm glad it's blocked because I didn't support it. I think there should be more pathways to citizenship. I think there should be an increase in legal immigration. You and I obviously starkly disagree on that. But on the politics of this, it's just a foolish move. It's an illegal move. It's an impractical move. It's not going to be effectively implemented. And it's also, you know, as a leftist, I always note the fact that he's so, the Democrats and Biden in particular, so quick to completely turn on a dime and completely shift policy when the pressure is

from the right. But when it's from the left, like as in, you know, unconditional support for Israel, he will never, ever, ever change. And I think it's both comes from an ideological place. Like Joe Biden is, you know, a conservative Democrat. You can look at his history throughout his many, many years in Washington, and you see that. And it's also just this instinct within the Democratic Party that came up in the Clinton era of like, always and forever, the right political move is to punch left.

The right political move is to move to the right, move to the center. That's always their instinct, no matter what. And so that's how you end up with a situation where you remember they were on the debate stage, like speaking their high school Spanish and competing to say who could be more humane towards immigrants. And now, you know, the minute that there's a little bit of political pressure, he just flips on a dime and is like, I'll be just like Donald Trump. Don't worry about it, guys. Okay. As you said, we have multiple multi-hour debates about immigration that I think people can go and watch now at this point. We're just going to quibble a little bit there about fascism, Crystal, because I don't think it's fascist to enforce the laws or to be concerned about the borders of your own country.

This isn't enforcing the laws. It's illegal. Okay. Well, that's, again, in terms of, quote, unquote, the law and how it's interpreted and enforced. No president has actually enforced, quote, unquote, immigration law and how it's interpreted and enforced. No president has actually enforced, quote unquote, immigration law in the last 45 years, which, whatever. We can get to a very broader discussion about that and also about the merits of so-called legal immigration, especially the illegal immigration that is a part of this.

I do think we can all very least admit here that the politics of this for President Biden have been bad from day one, the images from the southern border. And in evidence that even this move now has come so far late for him. Let's put this on the screen. All of the swing state Democrats who are in tight races denied his request to appear next to him for this event. So I'm gonna read everybody a list here. Senator Jon Tester, Tammy Baldwin, Jackie Rosen, and Bob Casey, all seeking re-election in battleground states, will not attend because, Crystal, of scheduling conflicts. You know, the calendar is a real bitch, isn't it? It's like who, he's gotta meet with Bob Case and all these other people, even though they

are in town, just so everybody understands, they're here in Washington. They've gotta meet with the Parkinson's delegation of Montana or some other fly-in delegation from elsewhere, and they don't have time, I'm sorry, for the President of the United States. That demonstrates to you, too, how toxic he actually is now. I think both on this issue, but more so how they are all running far ahead of him. Let's not forget, I mean, for example, in the state of Nevada, Jackie Rosen has got some 18-point swing between Donald Trump and between her support in the state. John Tester and Bob Casey are both running way ahead of Joe Biden, who I think by a margin, at least in the

state of Pennsylvania, by seven or eight points. Tester, I mean, Tester is always an interesting case, but he remains, at the very least, a lot more popular than he is. So in every single case of the swing state Democrat, you have them absolutely shunning Joe Biden and rhetorically are likely going to be hitting him on this issue on the campaign trail like Mark Kelly did back in the midterm election. So there's a lot of lessons here, I think, on the Biden issue. But what we can see is that this is a last gasp at trying to hold on to the election. And at this point, I think the sunbelt is gone for Joe Biden. His best, best case is to stop the bleeding amongst the white boomers in the so-called

old blue wall states, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. And what he's trying to do here is hold on to just another couple of percent that could possibly win him the White House and the absolute edge of the margin. Because that's really the only way I think you can rationalize what's happening here. Yeah, it would be convenient for me to try to make the point that I think these Senate Democrats realize that embracing Trump immigration policy is bad politics. But I think you're right that it's just about they see that Joe Biden is a toxic figure and they don't want to be at a photo op with him for this or any other issue. I don't think it's like a principled stand in favor of the previous positions that they staked

down in favor of a humane immigration policy. But just I've mentioned the study a bunch of times. I just want to put it up so people can see this research that was done in Europe. We can put this up on the screen. They looked at eight different European countries. And again, they showed no evidence that shifting to the right on immigration helped these sort of like center left figures. Because immigration hardliners were already in whatever the right wing party was in those states, just like your immigration hardliners are already in the Republican Party.

The Democrats have a variety of coalitional issues at this point. And certainly they're not only, those issues are not only coming from the left, but one of their coalitional issues is among progressives and young people and voters of color. And this does nothing to make those voters feel more affection for Joe Biden. So, you know, on net, I don't think it helps him. It probably doesn't hurt him either. But I don't think that this is like the political magic trick that they seem to think it is, so much so that they're willing to, even though they know that it's going to be struck down and is illegal, willing to go forward with it nonetheless. And the other thing I would say is there is a risk because part of successful campaigning is defining the issue landscape on which you're running.

So the more that the political conversation is about abortion, the worse landscape that is for Republicans. And it really doesn't matter what Donald Trump says or what issue position he puts it out, or if he was in office, what executive order he signed. That's just a bad landscape for Republicans. The more Democrats are talking about the need for a more restrictive immigration policy, the more they're talking about immigration in general,

the worse footing they are on for this election. So to the extent that this signing this executive order and doing this whole big push focuses the conversation on what is probably Joe Biden's worst issue set, I do think it is deleterious to him politically, sort of no matter what the policy ultimately is. I agree. Absolutely. Israel and immigration are two worst. I think immigration might be slightly worse, but Israel is also up there. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover,

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You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye.

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We have some video here that we can show everybody. This shows Hunter and his wife, Melissa, arriving at the federal courthouse for the criminal firearm charges. Everyone will recall this trial was never actually supposed to happen because the prosecutors and Hunter had a sweetheart deal worked out, which would avoid him any charges. It would have helped him move past the $2 million or so that he owed to the IRS. We had the IRS whistleblowers and all of that come out. But the judge actually ended up throwing that out at the court, saying that this is just simply an unacceptable deal,

and he'd never seen anything like it before. So let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. All of the jury members were actually chosen yesterday. A great headline here from the Wall Street Journal, Hunter Biden's trial, crack cocaine, a Colt Cobra revolver, and an alleged lie. So as they write here in what really could be a movie, in October 2018 on the Friday evening, Hunter Biden rolled up in a black Cadillac to Star Quest shooters and survival supply in Delaware City. A salesman standing in the video didn't recognize him and would later recall declining a tip from the younger Biden as he purchased a.38 caliber Colt revolver. There is no mistaking, though, when he appeared in federal court on his charges stemming from that 2018 purpose where files and videos from the Hunter Biden laptop, which now have been validated and cited by the FBI and the Department of Justice show that he was using

drugs at that time. Anybody who's bought a gun, including myself, understands that whenever you do so, you have to sign and attest that you are not under the influence of drugs and alcohol, and you're not currently using those things, or sorry, specifically with illegal drugs. And so you can see here that the charge, the gun charge in particular on this trial, it's almost mystifying, Crystal, why he did not end up pleading guilty because it is so patently obvious that he did lie on this gun form. Now, this is separate, as I said previously, from the tax charges, which will begin a little bit later. I think that is currently delayed to early September, but they are literally going to use the younger Biden's own words against him,

Crystal, including in his memoir 2021 called Beautiful Things, where he openly writes about, quote, smoking drugs and making arrangements to buy drugs at the exact time that he was buying the gun. So he's on tape using drugs at the time of the gun purchase. In his own memoir, admits to using drugs at that time, and then yet is pleading not guilty here in the trial. So it would take, I think, a miracle to see him get off in this particular case. I want to know where my principled Second Amendment defenders are who think this is an outrageous abuse of power and that there shouldn't be these restrictions put on lawful gun owners. I will speak for them. I will speak for them, which is, as you say, as us Second Amendment people will always say, we all need to enforce the laws that are already on the books. And so this is what that looks like. Yeah, drug addicts should

be buying guns. No, there are plenty who want to get rid of the laws that are already on the books. And so this is what that looks like. Yeah, drug addicts should be buying guns. No, there are plenty who want to get rid of the laws that are on the books too, if you have to admit. There's a few who are out there. Oh, yeah, a few, okay. So every once in a while, we want that. Listen, putting that aside, why does this matter? There's a few things that are relevant here. Number one, it is an extraordinary situation where this is Biden's own Justice Department prosecuting his own son. So that is kind of a remarkable situation. None of this has anything to do, you know, the allegations here against Hunter have nothing to do with Joe Biden. There's no, you know, the business dealings and whatever aren't tied up in this. It's just literally, we think that you bought a gun while you were using drugs, which,

you know, if Hunter was telling the truth when he was writing his memoir, certainly appears to be the case. But could it be politically embarrassing for Joe Biden because whatever testimony comes out, you know, about Hunter and his lifestyle and any potential entanglements with his father? Yes, potentially. You know, in the politics of it, people have been knowing that Hunter is kind of a hot mess for a while. And I don't think that that is Joe Biden's biggest problem. I don't even think it's in the top 100 list of Joe Biden's biggest problems at this point in terms of his reelect. Oh, absolutely. I didn't say necessarily, but as you said, there are gonna be some embarrassing things. For example, prosecutors plan to show videos and photographs of Biden smoking crack that were backed up to his Apple iCloud account and the now infamous laptop.

Jill Biden was actually spotted leaving the trial yesterday at the time that some of these videos were playing. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. This is from Kyle Griffin. This is a statement of President Biden at the beginning of the trial. He says, I am the president, but I am also a dad. Jill and I love our son. We are so proud of the man he is today. Hunter's resilience in the face of adversity and strength he has brought to his recovery are inspiring to us. A lot of families have loved ones who overcome addiction and know what we mean. As president, I don't and won't comment on the pending federal cases,

but as a dad, I have boundless love for my son, confidence in him, and respect for his strength. Our family has been through a lot together, and Jill and I are going to continue to be there for Hunter and our family with our love and our support. So I will say, you know, politically, that is one of the ways that Biden has always been able to head this off is with kind of his radical empathy, I guess, towards his son, which, you know, a lot of people who have family members who are drug addicts can probably sympathize with, where a lot of people see the hypocrisy is that, look, he has gotten away with so much simply because he is the president's son, perhaps no more so than the tax case where you literally had a Biden mega donor pay his entire tax bill of $2 million, you know, with presumably nothing, you know, really exchanged just so that he could avoid felony charges and try and plead down the case ended up not working. But the insight both into the amount of money he's been able to profit off of his father's name is just outrageous. And we're not even talking about, you know,

some of the China stuff and all that, which I certainly think is a problem for him. But the legalized corruption that has been displayed by Hunter throughout really his entire life is one which, again, I don't think it's in the top 100 problems for him per se. But the more that the public is reminded or sees that, it will take a little bit away from President Biden and kind of the way that people think about what used to be one of his strongest assets, which was empathy, talking about the loss of his son and family, the whole like cares about people like you. That was something that always related back to his experiences with his children. And so it could, you know,

bring this to light. In the same way, I mean, I'm not comparing necessarily to, but the Trump guilty verdict did genuinely bring in a lot of eyeballs and public consciousness around this. Will a Hunter guilty verdict do the same? No, not claiming that at all, but it will create problems at the very least. Like it will put it on the front pages and on television screens for others whenever they see perhaps some of the details here. Yeah. I mean, it's a tawdry situation, right? And, you know, to the extent there's a claiming of a moral high ground, perhaps there's an issue for him there. I don't know. On the other hand, I do think Republicans run the risk of, as they often do, overplaying their hand.

We saw this directly with Trump and the way he talked about Hunter. And then immediately, this was back in the debates, you know, last time they ran against each other, immediately Joe Biden goes to like, you know, trying to display empathy, not only for his son, but connecting to the millions of parents out there who have, you know, a child or a loved one who is also struggling with addiction. So there is a danger there. And Republicans, you know, are a little tone deaf when it comes to this. They're, you know, they're a little obsessed with like, again, the Hunter Biden stories that most of the public, it really hasn't rated for them as one of their top concerns. With Joe Biden, obviously their whole like impeachment effort to go after Joe Biden hasn't really gone anywhere.

And, you know, it has been such a sort of failure that even right-wing media is like, come on, guys, what's going on here? Why is there no there there? Why aren't we seeing these smoking guns that you keep promising? So I don't know. If I had to say, I think it's kind of inconsequential for the election, but you never know what can come out of it. And it's certainly an uncomfortable situation for Joe Biden. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be.

These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves.

Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast.

From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family

that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame

one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. All right, let's move on to the stock situation. There was absolutely insane day yesterday on Wall Street. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. The New York Stock Exchange had to fix an issue that showed 99% drops and triggered trading halt on 40 different stocks, including Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway. So there were a

lot of memes that dropped about this one, about how Berkshire Hathaway and Warren Buffett really were wrong all along, showing a 99% drop in the stock of the company. The disruption quote was resolved after 45 minutes, which is a pretty long time there in the life cycle of the New York Stock Exchange. The New York Stock Exchange is going to have to cancel all bad trades as a result of that, and is also reviewing, quote, erroneous halts. So anytime something like this happens, it should really freak us out because obviously the integrity of our markets is one of the things that we like to tout all across the world. And a single glitch of 45 minutes can drop the value 99% of some of the world's most valuable companies. Yeah, that should freak you out as to how brittle

the system actually is. At the same time, and part of the reason we want to put all this stuff together, there is the same David and Goliath thing that is currently happening with Keith Gill, aka Roaring Kitty, on GameStop. So Keith Gill, as we've covered before, returned previously both to Twitter, tweeting out memes, showing and rallying the GameStop stock. Well, recently he returned to Reddit, actually, and revealed a multi-million dollar position in GameStop. Let's put this up there on the screen. You can see here a screenshot from Keith Gill's trading account from E-Trade. Now, keep in mind, E-Trade, we're going to come back to that one, but a significant position there of some $100 million or so if executed.

Well, this has now spawned a major conversation on CNBC and elsewhere amongst the Wall Street elites who are like, hey, should this be allowed? Should it really be allowed that Mr. Gill can simply just post and then invite this major rally into GameStop stock? Here, for example, is a former SEC chairman who questions whether this is something that we should tolerate in our markets. Let's take a listen. It's not insider trading.

That's clear. And he's trading on his own information. That's why it's not insider trading. But is this something that we should be tolerating in our markets? Whether it's legal or illegal, I don't think so. And that's why I say, why doesn't he? What does that mean, not to tolerate? So the idea, I would think, is you look at this more in the context of market manipulation. Right. And the question is, are you allowed to manipulate the market? People, by the way, publish things all the time and say, hey, I like this stock. And they, you know, hope that other folks follow them. Is that market manipulation?

Generally not. Maybe, maybe, maybe not. So what is the distinction in your mind as somebody who ran this department and who's looking at and cares about the integrity of these markets? Well, that's why, that's why I'm saying, okay, we can, we can discuss what are exactly the facts and circumstances around the publication of this tweet and the like. But in, but in the meantime, if you care about the markets and you care about investing, come on this program, right? Tell people, tell people why you did this. From your lips.

Crystal, to the SEC chairman, it's not market manipulation. When you appear on CNBC, like let's say a guy named Bill Ackman, and you say terror is coming and it's going to be horrible and there's going to be a huge crash. And then there's a huge market crash. And then it comes out a little bit later that actually you had bought a huge portion at the bottom that you helped spark and you made a multi-billion dollar profit. You see, that's actually not market manipulation. That's normal. It's also normal when hedge fund managers and others pump their bullshit SPACs and investments on Twitter, inviting other users and fans to buy something, that is not market manipulation at all because they're managers. Whereas this guy is just some rando who happened to get very lucky on GameStop and invite a social movement of retail traders. When he does it, then now it needs to be investigated. I mean, this is complete

bullshit. It's like, I thought political elites were bad, but these Wall Street people, this is a whole other level of corruption. Well, they're the same. I mean, they're the ones who are pulling the strings. So yeah, the political behavior is downstream of what these assholes think. Um, listen, if this was a person who had a genuine concern across the board about market manipulation, and if there was a consistent principle being held here, then, you know, you could hear him. Okay, yeah, he's got, listen, Roaring Kitty isn't a small fish anymore, right? He's got, what is it, $140 million stake or something?

I mean, he's got a huge stake now. He's got a whole lot of money. You could have a debate about, all right, should this be allowed? But you can't take these people seriously when, you know, when it's their buddies on Wall Street, when it's Bill Ackman,

when it's hedge funders and whoever who do it. And that's perfectly fine as long as they have their little invite ticket to the green room at CNBC, which is like the cool kids club for Wall Street, you know, as long as they have their little invite ticket to the green room at CNBC, which is like the cool kids club for Wall Street, you know, as long as they have that, then it's perfectly fine. It's only when it's an outsider who's benefiting from this mass grassroots meme stock movement. Then we really need to drop the hammer. Then we need to look into it because he isn't officially sanctioned in the club

and isn't cheating in the ways that we feel comfortable with. So that's why you just have to laugh. And the comment about he could come on CNBC, that really gives away the whole game. Because if you aren't in the elite circle that's going to get invited into the green room on CNBC, then you're not allowed to cheat. That's only rigging the game. That's only for us. Right. That's our turf. That's clearly what the upset is about. Yeah. They're like, no, no, no. You can't do this, man. You have to be on CNBC to pump your own book. Didn't you know that? And look, I mean, we're not exaggerating here. This is a real problem now.

Let's put B5 up on the screen. This is from the Wall Street Journal. E-Trade, which is currently backstopped by Morgan Stanley, is considering kicking off Keith Gill from the platform. Keep in mind, as I said earlier, that Keith revealed his position, some $140 million, at least the current value of what he currently has, from an E-Trade account that he had just simply screenshotted. He wasn't marketing E-Trade. He wasn't using E-Trade. He wasn't even necessarily doing anything except what any of us might do with our normal brokerage account. They are now considering literally kicking him off of the platform despite the fact that he has not violated any securities laws.

They say that he has, quote, discussed concerns about possible manipulation in GameStop and would effectively take away his ability as a customer to trade on the platform. Their debate includes action, whether his actions have amounted to manipulation and whether or not the firm is now willing to risk drawing the attention of his meme army by removing him. So of course they should worry about that because a lot of retail traders might ditch E-Trade, you know, if that were to happen. But I mean, the reason why this is so shocking to me is that this is a Morgan, this is Morgan stamp. This is a Wall Street institution. Think about how many filthy deals and trades that these people facilitate

every single day in terms of settling. But when Keith Gill screenshots his brokerage account of his position in GameStop, now they are concerned about market manipulation. As you said, when you audit all Bloomberg terminal messages and you start going after the fund managers on CNBC and after the people on Twitter who have literally pumped up stocks and SPACs that have lost over 90% of their value, resulting in massive loss to their customers, then maybe I will listen about, you know, restoring integrity to our markets, to our brokerage accounts and everything else. But this is just a straight up rigged game. And what's crazy is that they're just doing it again. You know, dumb money recently came out reminding everybody of the insanity of that entire

situation. But you literally watch these trading platforms lock the ability to buy a certain stock. They could tell us all about their liquidity problems all they want. But, you know, if you're a major trader who probably uses Morgan Stanley to settle many of your trades, you're not going to ever have that problem if you're a hedge fund manager. It's just like whenever you try and play even remotely by any set of the rules that they do every single day, then now they call you a market manipulator and they will literally shut down your ability to make any money. I think it's totally insane. Yeah, it does really harken back to when they stopped on Robinhood. They blocked the ability of people to continue buying the stock because they didn't like what was going

on. And there were financial entanglements there, et cetera. They denied, et cetera, et cetera. But we all saw what was going on. And it has that same vibe. There is just a revulsion at the idea that this game could be played by anyone that isn't in their particular cocktail circuit. And yeah, I mean, it's revealing, isn't it? It's really revealing the way this all happens. You know, market manipulation, like stock buybacks are market manipulation that should be illegal. But I don't see any of these people getting upset and like going to Congress, hey, we got to crack down, we got to ban these stock buybacks again. So spare me your, oh, the sanctity of the market moralizing, because we see how full of shit you ultimately are when it comes to you and your buddies and the people in your friend

group that profit off of rigging the market, market manipulation, etc. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they write their own rules. And then they claim that, you know, if you if you try and play by them, if you actually try and emulate the exact same thing, then they either try to criminalize you or basically block you from the ability to trade. So this is like a tale as old as time in terms of institutional corruption. And it's one of the ways that he really took I think he showed like took the wool out of everybody's eyes the first time around. But for them to just do it again, I mean, it just shows again how powerful they really are. They don't even care if they're caught openly manipulating things out in the open.

As long as they're the only ones that get to do it, then that's it. All right, we've got a great guest standing by, Emily Kopp, to talk about that Fauci testimony. Let's get to it. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone

who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room.

You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake,

the first Black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids,

promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie.

In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free

on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Joining us now is Emily Kopp. She's a reporter at U.S. Right to Know, returning to the program. Emily, it's so good to see you again. Thank you for joining us. Great to be here. Absolutely. So you were in the room yesterday with Dr. Fauci while he was being grilled before Congress. There were some stunning moments, I guess, to say the least. We pulled one of them here to get your reaction. Let's take a listen. Do you agree that there was a push to downplay the lab leak theory? Not on my part. Really? Really. Wow. Wow. I think most of the country would find that amazing. I still got 11 seconds. Well, look at the facts. I've kept an open mind throughout the entire process.

All right. I yield back. You did not suppress the lab leak theory, yet in the past you have said, quote, it is a distortion of reality, unquote. You've said, quote, I've heard these conspiracy theories, and like all conspiracy theories, they're just conspiracy theories. That's what you told the American people. And so would you like to clarify what science were you following then versus now? Yeah, no, I actually, I've also been very, very clear and said multiple times that I don't think the concept of there being a lab leak is inherently a conspiracy theory. What is conspiracy is the kind of distortions of that particular subject. Like it was a lab leak and I was parachuted into the CIA like Jason Bourne and told the CIA that they should really not be talking about a lab leak.

Thank you. That's the conspiracy. Appreciate that. All right. So, Emily, you are, in my opinion, the preeminent reporter on the lab leak situation. So what do we make about the veracity of Dr. Fauci's claims there? Yeah, I mean, to hear Fauci tell it, he had nothing to do with the fact that the lab leak theory was maligned as a conspiracy theory for years. And to be frank, continues to be maligned as a conspiracy theory by the hardcore Democratic partisans in my Twitter mentions currently. Yes, that's right. It just belies belief. And you can see it in the responses from the members of Congress there. Fauci is the most influential scientist in America.

And the idea that scientists who raise an alarm about the potential for a lab accident in Wuhan and who raise concerns about the papers in favor of zoonosis, the wet market theory, could have been maligned for years. And that this narrative could have persisted that the zoonosis theory was sacrosanct and not to be questioned could have persisted if the most influential scientists in America had truly an open mind for years is just really absurd. And so let's actually take a step back because one of the best work that you have done is the FOIA and revelation of a lot of these documents and the internal discussion. So definitively, how can we prove that what Dr. Fauci is saying there is blatantly not

true? Take us through the paper trail that you've been able to discover. Sure. Yeah, I think at this point I've written like 30,000 words about this based on documents FOIAed by me, by another independent journalist, Jimmy Tobias, and through subpoenaed records that the committee obtained showing emails and Slack messages that show that the authors of that paper were saying very different things publicly and privately at the same time, and actually mapped those statements over time. And there was no willingness by Fauci to consider that his participation in

this paper and its prompting and reading drafts, basically reading over the shoulders of these virologists who were writing about the possibility of a lab leak early in the pandemic, there was no willingness on his part to consider that his influence, his power as the head of NIAID, which oversees billions of dollars in research grants, was inappropriate. That in itself, even if he didn't directly edit the paper. I think if you know, as the virologist who wrote that paper knew that NIAID, Fauci's Institute, had funded gain-of-function research in Wuhan, and you know he was reading over your shoulder, you have an enormous incentive to only accumulate evidence in one direction. And that is what is borne out by the FOIA emails, by the Slack messages that were subpoenaed by the congressional committee. And the virologists

even described one of the core concepts of their paper as crap. And it was in fact, ghostwritten by one of the most infamous gain of function virologists of all time, Ron Fouchier, who they internally described as unbelievably conflicted. So they put out this paper, put their names on it, not really believing in one of its core concepts. And that happened after they participated in a teleconference with Fauci, this, I mean, giant in science and someone who oversaw their funding, how they make their livelihood. Yeah, it's so stunning. And one of the things that you've always done a great job of is that Dr. Fauci and a lot of the scientific community and the media now at this point would rather

call this a conspiracy theory and effectively cover up their own complicity in this question than actually answer to the one million or so people in this country who died, you know, from this, or at least, you know, whatever. You can describe the deaths in whatever you want. At the very least, we know it was, what, a couple hundred thousand at the very minimum of people who died from this disease. And from your reporting, as we know from last time around, it is almost certainly a lab leak. And yet, you know, we see all of this effort in Congress to change, for example, the definition of gain-of-function research. So could you describe a little bit of that to us?

Because Fauci, in the estimation of a lot of scientists, has committed perjury by trying to change the definition of gain-of-function research. Did he stick to that in his testimony when you were there? And what is exactly his excuse? He did double down on the false claim that NIAID did not fund gain-of-function research in Wuhan. But I actually want to address your first point very briefly. I think the main takeaway from the hearing yesterday should have been that Fauci oversaw probably the most catastrophic policy failure in modern history, which is the exportation of high-risk virology to an adversarial country, a secretive country that did not have adequate protections against airborne viruses. But the main takeaway that I had sitting in that hearing room yesterday is that no bureaucrat

should be the head of a federal agency overseeing billions of dollars for decades upon decades upon decades like Fauci has, because his influence in Congress and the press and the scientific community really comes across because he keeps making these false statements with apparently no consequences. And so as you were saying, he, I believe, committed perjury by continually conflating gain-of-function research and this other term called enhanced pandemic potential pathogen. So in order to conceal the fact that he lied to Congress in his exchanges with Senator Rand Paul in 2021 when he said his institute never funded gain-of-function research in Wuhan, he said, well, that's the general understanding. And my more technical, sophisticated understanding as a scientist is enhanced pandemic potential pathogens.

So gain-of-function research refers to enhancing any pathogen in the lab. And enhanced pandemic potential pathogen refers to enhancing a virus that is already very dangerous, very deadly and transmissible. Got it. And the gain-of-function research that was occurring in Wuhan certainly meets that first definition. There was no general understanding of gain-of-function research when those exchanges with Senator Paul happened. No one had ever heard of it. So the idea that Fauci is now retrospectively applying this term that did not exist at the time the experiments were approved, it's like he thinks that he can bend space and time through his power as the former head of NIAID, which I think is sort of

perverse because at the same time, he's not taking accountability for those projects having been approved despite his signature being on them. So on the one hand, he thinks he can redefine regulatory frameworks single-handedly in order to cover up his perjury, but also take no accountability for what happened in Wuhan. And that's just inexcusable. Yeah, you're right. Because as you said, it was probably one of the single greatest policy failures ever in modern history. To take your example of why bureaucrats shouldn't be their power ever, what do we all remember about J. Edgar Hoover and about people who amass vast power in the federal bureaucracy with unaccountability as they commit atrocities? And then it's only after

they're gone, some 30, 40 years later, that we can be like, oh yeah, that was a real problem. By the way, the last time that we checked in, it was basically case closed. We were checking in on the zoonosis theory. They moved completely away from bats, and now we were on to pangolins. So I wanted to check in again. I think it's been like six, seven months or whatever since we last spoke. Where are we currently now in terms of the zoonosis theory? What are they still grasping at? Or do they not even try now at this point to justify it?

I think to some degree the attitude in the press and the scientific community is case closed, but in the other direction, that the wet market theory is infallible. And in fact, that's been their approach since February 2020, before we had much information at all with the publication of Proximal Origin, that paper I was referring to earlier. There have been criticisms of the two landmark papers in science that were championed by the New York Times as sort of a case close for the natural origin theory. There have been critiques of that by people who are experts in spatial statistics that the idea that early cases cluster around the wet market is based on bad analysis. We already kind of knew that the data was compromised because there was an early focus on the wet market that could have biased the data. And because there's so much censorship in China around that early pandemic period.

So we already knew that the data was pretty sketchy, but recently papers have come out in peer-reviewed journals suggesting that the analysis applied to those data were also sketchy. Wow. That's amazing. So it's even more bunk than which originally started out. Where can people find and support your work, Emily? You can find us at US Right to Know, or you can follow me on Twitter, Emily A. Kopp. All right. We will have links down in the description. As I said, the preeminent reporter on this subject.

In my opinion, she should have won a Pulitzer Prize. But, you know, it's the country that we live in. So, Emily, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks so much. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free

on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. DNA test proves he is not the father. So don't wait. Head to give it to his irresponsible son. But I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. They could lose their family and millions of dollars. Yep. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about

celibacy, but to me, VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.