Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 6/9/25: Kash Patel Epstein Coverup, Trump Caves On Abrego Garcia, Israel Raids Gaza Flotilla

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Krystal and Saagar discuss Kash Patel Epstein coverup on Rogan, Trump caves as Abrego Garcia returned to US, Israel raids Gaza freedom flotilla.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com. All right, let's go on to Jeffrey Epstein. And there's been some, I mean, the way the Trump administration has handled this from day one has been clownish. You know, we had the original release of the Epstein files to a bunch of influencers, even though there was no new information in there. And in fact, there was no new information in there. And in fact, there was publicly available information that was redacted in the so-called

Epstein Files. The release of that was certainly a botched one. But more recently, the appearance of Kash Patel, the FBI director on Joe Rogan's podcast, has just been nothing short of insane because Kash Patel, now that he is the FBI director, is directly contradicting many of the things that he himself said only just two years ago about the circumstances of the Jeffrey Epstein case. This surrounds multiple things, okay? So number one starts with Jeffrey Epstein himself and the so-called suicide, where we were told a couple of things. We were told the camera was off. We were told as well that there's reams of information and hours of footage that was seized by the FBI in the initial raid of the Epstein mansion that has been held by the FBI,

the infamous black book, and so many others that the FBI had and had not yet been released to the public. And yet now we are told by Kash Patel a couple of things. They say that the camera allegedly was on this whole time. By the way, we were not told that. That's actually the opposite of the original story for the way this so-called suicide went down. We're told by the top levels of the FBI that actually Epstein did kill himself. After all, they're 100% certain. They can't release the whole file to us because we're not allowed to know as the public.

And we're also not going to see any of the footage that was seized by the FBI because, quote, they don't want to re-victimize women. So let's take a listen to 2023 Kash Patel and today's Kash Patel. Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederast, the largest scale pederast in human history? Simple, because of who's on that list. You don't think that Bill Gates is lobbying Congress night and day to prevent the disclosure of that list? And why is it that the Senate, you know, and good for Senator Blackburn to try to get it out, but then Dick Turbin comes over the top and says, no, we're not going to release the

names. I don't care about the list itself, but it released the names, right? And I've said it. Dan Bongino said it. We've reviewed all the information and the American public is going to get as much as we can release. He killed himself. Do you think, let's reviewed all the information and the American public is going to get as much as we can release. He killed himself. Do you think – let's play out the logical conclusion of this.

Do you think that myself, Bongino, and others would participate in hiding information about Epstein's grotesque activities? Or do you think we would also participate in not prosecuting people we had evidence to prosecute people on? Where's the videotape of an Epstein Island of X, Y, and Z committing these frauds? Why haven't you given it to us? Do you really think I wouldn't give that to you if it existed? No. It's like, do you think you would participate in a cover-up if you're the top level of the FBI and subject to a massive blackmail machine at the top of an international intelligence apparatus? Yeah, I do think that. And in fact, because all of history vindicates that, looking at literally the history of the FBI. But broadly, I mean, we can just compare all of the same things that they said to what they're now saying. I mean,

the craziest thing he's saying is that we were not going to re-victimize women. And I understand the, I would understand if we're saying that in 06. Now we have what? We have technology to be able to, I mean, listen, murder and other images which are ghastly and devastating are released to the public all the time. They redact images, you know, for example, of like actual victims, but very often, especially in fact in cases like this, they will make sure to protect the child, underage women, or the victim's identity while at the same time releasing footage of the perpetrators. Remember, we still to this date do not have an accurate accounting of the island, of the files, and everything that went on inside of that mansion, so-called hidden cameras. And I

know all of this quote sounds crazy, but like this is documented fact at this point. So here we have Kash Patel saying he won't re-victimize women, but most importantly, saying that the cameras were on in the Epstein prison. Again, that is a direct lie than told previously by the Bureau of Prisons and by the Trump administration, the initial time around itself. Let's take a listen. What about the video from the island? Oh, that's it. Sorry. So you're talking about two different things. So yeah. So again, we're going to give you everything we can and people have to remember, we're not going to re-victimize women. We're not going to put that shit back out there. It's not happening because then he wins. Not doing it. You want to hate me for it? Fine. Again, logical play out. If there was a video

of some guy or gal committing felonies on an island and I'm in charge, don't you think you'd see it? If you have access to it. If I have it, period. If I have it. If I have it. So. Where else would it be? Right. If you have it.

Right. But you can't say that you have it. No, we're giving you everything we have. So far. Everything we have so far is. Have you guys gone over all the video that's available? Yeah. That's what I'm telling you. That's what takes so much damn time. But the problem is there's been like 15 years of people

coming in and creating fictions about this that doesn't exist. Where's the videotape of an Epstein Island of X, Y, and Z committing these frauds? Why haven't you given it to us? Do you really think I wouldn't give that to you if it existed? I'm working my ass off along with the leadership at the Bureau and DOJ to get you what we're allowed to give you. And you're going to get the video of the cell. And you're going to see for yourself. And we will never be able to convince everyone. What?

You know, it's like, don't you think I would give that to you? No, actually, because you're not. He says, we're going to get the video. We're going to see for ourselves. He said the camera was on. That's literally not what we were told. He said the camera was off and the guards were sleeping. I'm like, oh, yeah, okay.

I think Cam Bondi in this administration said that, didn't she? Well, she said that they had been reviewing hours of video. Actually, we may even have that. I'm not sure. No, we don't have it today. But she previously had said that we are reviewing thousands of hours of video, and now they're like, well, actually, we can't release any of that video to the public. And also, there's not the video you want.

And also, we have definitive proof, even though we didn't before. Look, there's an easy way to solve all of this. of that video to the public. And also, there's not the video you want. And also, we have definitive proof, even though we didn't before. Look, there's an easy way to solve all of this. Release it all to the public, okay? You can easily release all of this to the American public. We will make up our minds for ourselves. And you can do that while being sensitive to the victims. I also would honestly like to have a poll and a survey of all the Epstein victims and ask them, hey, is it okay for us to be able to see this while we do all the sensitive work of making sure we redact you

and privately and keep your privacy? I guarantee you these people would be willing to have it out in the public because they were horribly victimized and they want the people who took advantage of them to be held accountable to the public. And this also is where the Elon, you know, tie-in comes, where Elon claimed that it was, that Trump himself was implicated in the Epstein files. And that's part of the reason why that Trump has not released them yet to date. So pretty extraordinary accusation. Before we play what Trump has, because every time Trump gets asked about this, he gets real squirrely. Right. Going back to his first administration, we got asked about Ghislaine Maxwell.

I was going to say, the infamous, I wish her well. I wish her well. Epstein said that Trump was his bestie for 10 years. Whether that is fully accurate or not, we know they were friends. We have video and pictures of them together. We know Trump was on the plane seven times according to the flight logs. We know Trump in an interview was seven times, according to the flight logs. We know Trump in an interview was like, yeah, he likes him young. So like 100 percent, Trump is, quote unquote, in the Epstein files. You know what all that entails is another matter. But yeah, I mean,

this is why it's always been so funny. The the right had a deep interest in this. I think there's good reason to have a deep interest in it, especially in particular how it ties into all of these wealthy and powerful people and potential Israeli Mossad activities as well. No, we haven't even touched on that. Yeah, and that's the other reason why very likely the government doesn't want to release everything that's available because then it will be abundantly clear that he, you know, was an intelligence asset, maybe potentially for the lawyers, whatever. But you've got those two things. You've got this very pro-Israel administration. You have a guy who spent years entangled with this man, and you think you're going to get all the goods on him, even though repeatedly when Trump gets asked about this, he dodges. And so let's go ahead and play this video of him getting asked on Fox News. And this was crazy, too.

So Fox News, in the run-up to the election, they asked him, like, what about UFOs? What about JFK? And he's like, yes, release it. Yes, release it. And they're like, what about Epstein? And he's like, yeah, well. And they edited it originally to cut out all the rest of the, like, well, no, I probably actually won't do that. And there's some problems, et cetera, to make it sound like he just was like, yes, we're going to release it.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to the unedited version of what he actually said in that Fox News interview. Would you declassify the 9-11 files? Yeah. Would you declassify JFK files? Yeah. I did. I did a lot of it. Would you declassify the Epstein files?

Yeah. Yeah, I would. All right. I guess I would. I think that less so because, you know, you don't know. You don't want to affect people's lives if it's phony stuff in there because it's a lot of phony stuff with that whole world. But I think I would. So a lot different than just an affirmative yes.

And he always, every time he gets asked about it, it's something similar. Well, I'm worried about their privacy and people are involved, etc. Yeah, people are involved. I mean, look, no matter who is president, just at this point, you know, we all genuinely do deserve to know. I mean, I think there are, I actually genuinely believe that it's not Trump, which is holding all this up. I think it's Israel. I think it's Mossad. I think it's very obvious considering the original comments by Alex Acosta and by the initial prosecutors, quote, intelligence was involved. I mean, this is a direct quote. You can go and read it for yourself

if you want to back from 2019. I think that's the only reason that we don't know. In a sense, we don't even, you know, like without the files, we know everything that we need to know. Israeli agent, we're gathering intelligence on all of the highest levels of American society. For what purpose? You can only guess. And that's another thing. People are like, well, how do they use this information? I don't think people understand how intelligence gathering works. The whole point is that you gather it so that you may have to use it in the future in case you need to. Ayyub Barak, the prime minister of Israel, literally spending multiple nights a week at his mansion, okay? These are documented facts., like using his money to invest with all of the world's

billionaires, from Peter Thiel, which is one more recently revealed, to Leon Black at the Apollo. I'm not even worried about people suing me. This is fact. Like, Leon Black literally had to resign from his company. One of the most private or one of the most powerful billionaires in the world had to resign from his company because of his, what was it, $200 million payment via his private jet LLC that was being paid by or being paid to Jeffrey Epstein. Over $150 million. Yeah, definitely for jet maintenance. I'm sure that's what it was all about. Bill Gates and the Nobel Prize. I mean, this is obvious.

Yeah, and the Peter Thiel piece is the a brand new he had a lot of money and then he had a bunch of money i think in one of his funds it's apparently now yielding incredible results to the jeffrey epstein estate the point is just that the money was a tool obviously also yeah leslie wexner who i think is still alive to this day who just miraculously gifted him all this money for no apparent reason or any of that whatsoever. This is obvious. And like, I know it sounds like eyes wide shut, but it's all real. Like this is documented. It is, it exists, you know, president or Bill Clinton on the plane multiple times, R.K. Jr. by his own admission on the plane a couple of times. I mean, I, that's the part I don't get either.

When you're filthy rich, why are we accepting gifts like this from questionable people? When you have the money, just fly yourself. I don't get it. I'm just a YouTube host. I don't accept free flights. That's why people always wanted to ignore his ties

and how closely linked he was with Epstein and all the documentary evidence and then think that he was going to be the one that finally, you know, between how pro-Israel he is and his own documentary evidence, and then think that he was going to be the one that finally, you know, between the pro, how pro-Israel he is, and his own linkages, like, I never thought we were going to see any of this. And it's just wild to see Cash out there, like, well, you know, it's just not there. And we've determined conclusively, he definitely killed himself. And but we can't, you know, we're not going to show you and now the cameras are on, whatever. It's a wild situation. The last piece here is Elon has now deleted his posts accusing Trump of being in the Epstein files.

And there were some other things that he had posted where he was saying, I will fully apologize to Trump once he fully releases the Epstein files. I think he also deleted those ones, too, although double check me on that. I'm not 100 percent sure. But, you know, I mean, I don't even understand this behavior. Like once it's out there, it's out there. It's not like anyone's going to forget that he posted this. It's this sort of like childlike, like, oh, if I delete it now, I can take it back, which you can't really take that back. But I don't know what's going on with Elon's also out tweeting a bunch about what's going on in L.A. in a way that's like very favorable for Trump and for MAGA and, you know, supporting the National Guard being brought in or whatever. So I don't know if he's trying to mend fences. I don't know if that's possible at

this point, because I don't think you can really come back fully from what has been said and done at this point. But it is interesting to me as well that, we'll talk about this in the Theo Vaughn segment, apparently Trump advised J.Dd vance to be diplomatic when it comes to elon i found that very odd very weird i mean not the way that trump typically behaves like normally once you cross him that's it scorched earth right i expected him to have some story equivalent to the remember the whole story you tell about like desantis coming tears in his eyes begging me i thought we'd have something like that and some like elaborate display of humiliation. He's been pretty low key.

Maybe it's because he does hold all the power, you know, and can punish him in all of these various ways. But it's just interesting to me how differently he's responded than what you would normally expect from Trump, where Elon has gone fully nuclear and Trump has been like kind of conciliatory, honestly. Yeah, I agree. There's some weird stuff that is going on. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder.

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It's tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too.

So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is. And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like, that's what's really important and that's what stands out

is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy. Or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was

convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. All right, we've alluded to this a number of times in the show. Let's go ahead and break down the news for you. Kilmar Abrego Garcia is coming back to the U.S. If he's not here already,

let's go ahead and put this up on the screen from Axios. Wrongly deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia, returning the U.S. to face criminal charges. So he's on his way back, according to a newly unsealed indictment. His deportation, they say, to El Salvador has been a flashpoint, you might say, in President Trump's immigration agenda. That indictment alleges that Abrego Garcia, who lives in Maryland, made more than 100 trips transporting undocumented immigrants between Texas and Maryland, among other states. According to Attorney General Pam Bondi, citing co-conspirators' testimony, Abrego Garcia also allegedly abused undocumented immigrant women and solicited nude photographs and videos from a minor. Let's go ahead and put

this indictment up on the screen. I did read through it. You know, we'll see what evidence they proffer. But here, USA Today says, Attorney General says, Kilmar Abrego was part of international smuggling ring. This goes back to, there was Abrego was part of international smuggling ring. This goes back to there was some footage that was released of him where he was stopped while he was driving. And he had a number of people in the car. It was a vehicle that had been modified to allow more people to be there. He wasn't apprehended or anything at the time. But they considered it sort of fishy because the people did not seem to have luggage with them. I believe he said that he was bringing them to a job or something like that.

So that's sort of the context of what the indictment centers around. We do know that there was one prosecutor who was meant to be involved with this, put D4 up on the screen, who resigned over the decision to pursue this indictment led to the abrupt departure of Ben Schrader, high-ranking federal prosecutor in Tennessee. Schrader's resignation was prompted by concerns the case was being pursued for political reasons, according to sources. I think this was NBC News that reported this out, but I can't remember specifically. So anyway, we'll see what happens with the charges. We'll see whether they have sufficient evidence to actually find him guilty of these alleged crimes. But obviously, the fact that they felt after they said absolutely no way is this man coming back, that they felt enough

pressure to bring him home, both from the public and from the court system, is quite extraordinary. And so now he will go through the court system. He will have his due process. A jury of his peers will evaluate the evidence against him, and he will have his day in court. And ultimately, Sagar, that's really all that anyone was asking for. I think it's extraordinary that they buckled and they ended up bringing him back. I mean, it is pretty crazy because they said he wasn't going to.

But I mean, at the end of the day, the Supreme Court order was pretty unambiguous. They're like, he needs to be returned to the United States of America because he was deported in violation of this order. I mean, even for me, somebody like me, considering how many twists and turns we've had here with Abrego Garcia, I'm like, I wonder how much of the,

I wonder whether he stands a pretty damn good chance in court because they have alleged all kinds of things, right? Like, I mean, even if you look at the original, it was like he was being deported. He was a member of MS-13. I mean, like maybe. But then he was a human trafficker. And then he was a wife beater. I mean, look, it's complicated, right?

He's never been accused or whatever of any of these things. But this is another step where they're alleging effectively that he's like some master human trafficker. And they had never originally said that. Now, it's possible that it's true because they've probably spent the time since to gather evidence. Maybe they thought it was a PR victory

to be able to gather, you know, use the full force of the FBI, gather all this evidence. I will say if he does get convicted of this, it's not gonna look good, right? And stuff's definitely a narrative violation for a lot of people. It's not some Maryland father or whatever that they're trying to use here. But broadly, look, this is what I was talking about with LA. What they did with El Salvador and then eventually the falling apart of a lot of the narrative around El Salvador, really burned of their credibility.

I wouldn't say necessarily with the public, but definitely the media. Because at that point, look, you had a situation where everybody knew Trump was going to pursue deportations. He knew he was going to do some extraordinary action, et cetera, et cetera. But with the falling apart of many of the cases, and in particular with a lot of the evidentiary stuff that they used, and then the eventual defeats over and over again at the Supreme Court level for the actual process by which this was done. I mean, I think it's basically comparable to 2002 Guantanamo Bay, like if we really think about it, where anybody who was in Afghanistan or anybody who was like,

that guy's a terrorist, eventually ended up in Guantanamo. And I mean, it's kind of crazy because what, some 23 years later, you would have thought, especially for an administration that kind of prides itself as being anti the Bush administration, effectively recreated a lot of this stuff. It's something Glenn Greenwald in particular really talked about. And I mean, obviously that's what changed a lot of my thoughts on this and in particular now since the fallout. But the fact that they did have to bring Kilmar Abrego Garcia back is evidence that the court matters still. I think public pressure, media as well.

It was undeniable. Like, let's be honest, it was genuinely undeniable. It was like, you're not supposed to be deported. And he got deported. I mean, and I'm not saying not supposed to. I'm saying as in legally had a hold on him. He can come back to the United States. He will now face a jury and a trial. We'll see how it all works out. But yeah, just broadly, you cannot look at this. They're trying to play it as like

it's a victory. No, this is a massive L for the Trump administration. Like you said you weren't going to do it and you brought it back. There's no getting around it. Period. End of story. And I want to be really clear about what he's actually being charged with in this indictment, which again, to see the evidence, because Lord knows that it's possible they ginnessed up because they needed some sort of pretext to make it look like they're not completely folding to the public pressure. But that has the benefit of going through the American federal system. It's like, look, the federal court is not a joke. Even if it's a political prosecution, you have to produce shit.

They're going to have to prove their case. You have to produce it. And now, I mean, this is enough. Look, I mean, Abrego Garcia can do what he wants, but go to trial because then we'll all see it. If you just plead guilty, we're not going to see any of this. But, yeah, you should go to trial for a public interest. Or at the very least, his defense attorney should release all the discovery and all that stuff that they have. Because at this point, that is obviously owed to the public. Yeah. So they're indicting him

on conspiracy to unlawfully transport illegal aliens for financial gain and unlawful transportation of illegal aliens for financial gain. So basically, the core of the indictment alleges that he was transporting people that he knew to be undocumented between different states. So basically, the core of the indictment alleges that he was transporting people that he knew to be undocumented between different states. So, you know, this is like, you know, a nitpicky thing. They keep calling him a trafficker. A trafficker is someone who's doing this against people's will. There's no allegation here that these were people who, you know, were being smuggled against their will. It's more that he was transporting them and knowing that these were undocumented immigrants. That's what the indictment says. But the reason I want to clarify that is

because Pan Bondi in the news conference about this made all sorts of wild allegations tying him to a murder and this and that different thing, even though none of that is in this indictment whatsoever. Again, to try to project this image like he's some high-level MS-13 gang member and, you know, going way beyond what they were even able to obtain an indictment for. Let's go ahead and listen to a little bit of that press conference and some of the pushback she got at the end. Maybe I misunderstood you, but you were mentioning, you know, that he had some involvement in a murder, you know, or was connected to groups that had, you know, involved with this other smuggling ring. But to be clear, the only charges he's facing right now are the, like, you know, human smuggling charges. That's the one offense. But the other things that you have talked about are not actually in the indictment?

No. Co-conspirators allege that. And we were clear to say that he is charged with, it's not only, very serious charges of alien smuggling. So those are the specifics. The other thing that I would say, Sagar, about this is, you know, you have Kilmar Borrego-Garcia. You also have some 200 plus other people who were shipped to SICA with zero due process, many of whom we already know had zero criminal record. You know, according to the analysis that's done by multiple news organizations, the vast majority of them did not have criminal records either here or abroad. They searched the databases of a number of countries. And, you know, there's an effort in the courts. There was a ruling actually from the judge here in D.C., Judge Boasberg, to say, you've got to give them a chance to also, you know, like file a habeas,

rid of habeas corpus. They have to be able to challenge their detention as well. They have to be able to get some sort of due process. Supreme Court has said they were entitled that and they did not receive it. So the other thing that I think is significant here is kind of a crack in the foundation, because previously it was just like, once you're gone, you're gone and that's it. And we're not doing nothing about it. So the fact that they did and are bringing this one person back, I think also opens up a crack in terms of the narrative here. And then the last thing we mentioned a couple of times, just so you can see for yourself, they were adamant. There is no way, under no circumstance, is Kilmar Abrego-Garcia coming home. Here is Secretary Kristi Noem saying exactly that.

Let's take a listen. Should never have been in this country and will not be coming back to this country. There is no scenario where Abrego-Garcia will be in the United States again. If he were to come back, we would immediately deport him again because he is a terrorist, he's a human smuggler, and he is a wife beater. There is no scenario where he will be coming back to this country. Guess what? Here we are a few weeks later, and he is coming back. It is nuts. I mean, it's literally Gitmo, right? We went worst of the worst.

How many, what percent of people have been released from Guantanamo? I forget. It's like probably 70 or 80 percent. They're like, we're going to prosecute them. And then they're like, oh, actually, we have to drop all the charges because there was torture involved here. And actually, we can't prove a lot of this stuff. I agree. I mean, this is basically, if we're following the same playbook, we have 02. Then by 03, you start to see some releases and some legal justification,

and eventually the bar cracks in the legal system. 2006, I think it's Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, where about habeas corpus. Now that they don't even need to go through all of that, right? Because that's already here. Law of the land, there's going to be some legal process. The fact that you haven't had some sort of CCOTlevel removal since that time is obviously also evidence of what's happening. But, I mean, I know there's been some. I forget. I was vaguely aware. Was it Djibouti or something like they were sent to South Sudan or something?

But I think it's not the same. But especially legally, you can correct me if I'm wrong. They're taking a lot of problems in the court system. And I think that this is part of what you will eventually see. Yeah. So extraordinary development all the way around. So listen, guys, we'd planned to talk about Theo Vaughn, but we've got our guests tweeting. We have the spokesperson from that Gaza aid flotilla who we really want to talk to. So I'll let the bros handle the broke podcast over with Theo Vaughn. So it's kind of appropriate. I'll let the bros handle the broke podcast. Well I was going to say maybe it's fitting. It's a bro podcast.

I'll exempt myself from that conversation. Although I think Theo gets unfairly lumped into the manosphere. I think he's actually very funny. Like not even in a bro. I was going to say he's not funny. No but I'm saying the New York Times people kind of put him in a manosphere. He's not like a creatine body.

You know what I'm saying? To me Rogan is much more like of a bro just in terms of his life and like kind of the podcast and ufc but and i know theo attends all of that but like i actually think he's a very funny person i who does not rely on like bro comedy genuinely i don't really consider this content outside of the things that are political and i would tell you so i think you would like his out of all of the major, his is probably the least political to me. He only goes viral for— But I only—I'm not interested in anything that's not political.

No, it's funny. I'm telling you it's funny. It is funny. Yeah. He had, like, Timothee Chalamet in his podcast. They actually had a good conversation. How would you compare him with Tim Dillon? I think Tim is a lot—I mean, Tim is a very—Tim is, to me, is more of, like, a George Carlin-esque figure.

Or intellectual. Well, he's a very—he is political in me, is more of like a George Carlin-esque figure. Or intellectual. Well, he is political in that I've seen his stand-up and actually was surprised when the first time I saw his whole set. It was not nearly as political as a lot of his podcasts. But he is like Carlin-esque and he likes to point out the absurdity of a lot of politicians and a lot of like public-facing media. I have not ever seen Theo, any of his his standup, like live or anything like that. But I would be willing to guess just based on his podcast and all that. It's a little bit more of like a societal observation.

So yeah, anyway, I think out of all of the so-called bro podcasters, I actually think he's the least political in terms of his normal content. He does have a lot of politicians on, but I think it's noteworthy if we remember when Trump came on, that's when Theo was talking about like being drug addict and cocaine and stuff like that. That's really more of his thing. He has a lot of therapists. He has actually done some pretty interesting people. I think he

has some good guests. Theo, keep it up, man. I actually think you're very good at what you're doing. All right. All that being said, that convo will happen tomorrow. Let's go ahead and get to the latest with this Gaza aid flotilla. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. I've never found her, and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

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Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So we have some pretty dire updates coming from that Gaza aid, Freedom Flototilla that was attempting to break the siege in Gaza. All the members of that aid group, including Greta Thunberg, have been arrested by the IDF and are now being held in Israeli prisons. So in order to give us an update, we're really fortunate to be joined this morning by Huweta Arif. She is actually the spokesperson for the Gaza freedom flotilla. She also is a human rights attorney and she joins us now. Welcome. Thank you. Yes, of course. So let's go ahead and start with some of the images that we were receiving from the ship yesterday. Let's go ahead and play. I'm going to show you

a video of quadcopters that initially intercepted the ship and dropped a strange substance on board so people can see what was going on here. Let's take a look at that. Okay, we have, we are masking our face right now. We have copters right above our heads, the most dangerous ones. And they are, they are, I don't know what this is. I don't know what this is. Is this paint or some chemical? No idea, but please sound the alarm.

They did say that they want to intercept us in a very calm way, but this is not what's happening. There is another war crime about to happen. We will keep you updated. Please put pressure on the government. Tell them that we are here because they are aiding and abetting this genocide. They are upholding a legal blockade. They're using starvation as a weapon of war.

This cannot go on. We cannot live in a future like this. You need to do everything in your power, in your power. Use your bodies, use your voices. Amplify the voice of Palestinians and do tell them that we are here because they're not doing their jobs. Huweta, what do we know about what has happened? Yeah, Crystal, those images that you just showed were some of the final images and sounds that we had from our colleagues aboard the Madeline. It was well in international waters, some 110 miles still outside of Palestinian territorial waters where they were headed to Gaza. Shortly after, we saw lights from Israeli commandos and the boat was hit and then the communication was cut off. And we have not heard from them since. It has been over 13 hours. We have not heard from them. We hear the Israeli government saying that they are being brought to the Israeli port of Ashdod,

we need to stress that they are being taken against their will. They have been abducted unlawfully from international waters and are being taken against their will to the Israeli port of Ashdod, where the Israeli government will presumably process them. We hope that they do not further abuse them. And we continue to call on all governments, but especially the governments of these states, to sanction Israel because it continues to commit these blatant violations of international law, aggression. We see what's happening in Gaza.

Why we were at sea is because of our government inaction as to what is happening to Palestinian people in Gaza. And it is enough, enough silence. Israel has no legal authority to intercept a peaceful vessel sailing from international waters into Palestinian territorial waters. It says it had to uphold or defend its maritime closure of Gaza. It has no authority to enforce an unlawful blockade that is designed to starve a civilian population. And there is no security threat from a sailboat that is carrying 12 civilians and baby formula for babies who are being starved to death. So our governments need to stop accepting these abuses and pretexts from Israel

as it continues to trample all over international law and genocide a people while they're at it. Huweta, can you tell us about that seizure in international waters? So this was one where the flotilla was actually outside of any recognized territory. What was the justification that was given to the flotilla for this arrest? And have you been notified yet if they're going to face prosecution and detention inside of Israel for this? Thank you for that question, because it is so important. Under the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas, there is freedom of navigation on the high seas. This ship, the Madeline, was unarmed, carrying 12 civilians, including a member of the European Parliament, including a doctor and journalist and human rights advocate. And it was carrying humanitarian aid for eight people under siege. It constituted

no threat. Israel had no authority to intercept it, nor to use violence to intercept it, certainly not on the high seas, but even if it had reached Palestinian territorial waters, because the International Court of Justice last year advised us that Israel's occupation, its presence in all of the occupied Palestinian territories is unlawful, and governments have an obligation not to recognize the illegal situation that Israel has created and have a further obligation to do as much as they can, everything they can to end this illegal situation. And on top of that, Israel is instituting this comprehensive blockade that is designed to starve an entire civilian population. That is a war crime and it is not new. We're seeing the dramatic effects of it now of denying everything,

food, water, aid, medicine, to a people who have been bombarded for nearly two years. We are seeing emaciated children. We are hearing reports of countless babies who have already died of starvation. All of this being done before the eyes of the world while our governments do nothing or are actively complicit. So it is important to stress that no government has the authority to enforce an illegal blockade. And that is exactly what this is. Israel says it's a lawful maritime closure. It is absolutely not. And no serious legal authority will tell you that this is a lawful maritime closure.

And we were not even close to that border. It went out into well into international waters, over about 100 miles from Palestinian territorial waters, which is not too much different from what it did just a month ago. We had another ship that was going to head towards Gaza carrying humanitarian aid. That ship was named the Conscience. And it was right outside of Malta and in European waters, some 2,000 miles from Israeli territorial waters. And Israel sent its drones to bomb that ship. And so Israel is using this kind of unjustified force against civilian objects, against humanitarian aid workers, all to stop people from trying to get to Gaza. Again, an unlawful blockade.

The Freedom Flotilla Coalition is trying to break it, but our government should be doing the same. And if they don't, we invite people all over the world to join us for the next boat we're going to send because we can't stop. To that point, Greta and others on board released pre-recorded videos calling on people to pressure their governments. Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of what they had to say. My name is Greta Thunberg and I am from Sweden. If you see this video we have been intercepted and kidnapped in international waters by the Israeli occupational forces or forces that support Israel. I urge all my friends, family and comrades to put pressure on the Swedish government to release me and the others as soon as possible. So my name is Reva Sefervia, I'm from France.

If you see this video, it means that we got intercepted by the Israeli forces or complicit and we may be in a very bad situation now. So I do ask our comrades, our family, friends to please share this video and put pressure on the French government so that we could be with my friends released. And also, of course, that this genocide ends. Joëta, two questions for you. First, following up on what Greta was saying there, what are you calling on people around the world to do to support these activists and their work. And also, I saw reports that there may have been coordination with some other attempts to break the siege. So what happens next?

Yes, we recorded those videos because we anticipated this kind of violent interception by Israeli forces. They have attacked us before. They have seriously injured and even killed our volunteers before, most notably in 2010, a flotilla that I was on. Israel violently raided that one and killed 10 of our volunteers. And so we pre-recorded these and put this out as soon as we lost connection with them. We are asking people all over the world to call on the governments of these countries to put pressure on Israel to release them, to guarantee their safety. And also, as you heard Reva say at the end, also to undertake their obligations under international law to stop this genocide.

Because the very reason that we have these 12 international civilians, our colleagues now abducted by Israeli forces, is because they had to be at sea doing what our governments should be doing. And I want to stress that these 12 are now abducted or disappeared. We haven't heard from them in nearly 14 hours now. Thousands, thousands of Palestinians, 10,000 Palestinians are also disappeared and are in Israeli dungeons. of people mobilizing to put on these pressures. We know that they have more safety than the thousands of Palestinians and the two million Palestinians in Gaza, no government to speak up for them and protect them. So we are asking people to put this pressure to ensure the safety of these civilians, but also we need to keep pressure and remember why we're doing this,

and that is to stop the genocide and protect the people of Gaza. And that requires governments upholding their obligations under international law. And so I mentioned that they attacked us now, but we're not going to stop. So we will be organizing to send another mission as soon as we can. We invite organizations, people and institutions that have more resources than we do to also mobilize both and come with us. But we are also in coordination with other civil society initiatives that are aiming to break the blockade in other ways. Today, June 9th, a land convoy left from Tunisia and it's making its way through Libya to have a situation where Israel has turned Gaza into a death camp and we have to do everything we can to break down these walls, to break the siege in any way we can. And that is civilian, nonviolent direct action, but also the pressure of people all over the world calling on our governments to also sanction Israel and hold it responsible for

what it has been doing and continues to do. Huweta, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. It's our pleasure. Thank you guys so much for watching. And it's great to be back, Crystal. We will be back with you all tomorrow. Bro show tomorrow. Oh, is it bro show tomorrow? We're giving people a bro show tomorrow. Ryan's got something going on. We switched days this week. So we'll get a bro show, ladies show, and then you and me back. Lots of fun. Okay. We're giving people Bro Show tomorrow. Ryan's got something going on. We switched days this week, so we'll get a Bro Show, Ladies Show, and then you and me back on Thursday. Lots of fun.

Okay, we're going to have fun this week. We're breaking things up, and that's the best part of all of this. BreakingPoints.com. Try out that free month trial. You can BP free for all of that. But otherwise, it's been a pleasure. It's been great to be back with all of you, and we will see you all later. Later. June is Black Music Month, so what better way to celebrate than listening to my exclusive conversation with my bro, Ja Rule. The one thing that can't stop you or take away from you is knowledge.

So whatever I went through while I was down in prison for two years, through that process, learn. Learn from me. Check out this exclusive episode with Ja Rule on Rock Solid. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Rock Solid, and listen now. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time. Have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1.

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Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Sure. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of starts that a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to it.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.