Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 7/11/25: Flagrant Pod TURNS on Trump, Dersh Says Epstein COVERUP, Billionaires PLOT Against Zohran & MORE Free Audio Description:

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Krystal, Emily and Saagar discuss the flagrant podcast turning on Trump, Dersh claims Epstein coverup, billionaires plot to defeat Zohran & MORE! To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. All right, guys, happy Friday. Emily's working on some tech issues over there. So start this, kick this off with just me and soccer. How's it going guys? Hello. Hello. How are you everybody? It's good to see you on Friday here. We had a fun night with the baby, but we're still here for you. You want to share some details? Oh, I mean, nothing that any newborn parent doesn't know. Yeah. There's a lot of screaming, there's a lot of crying. It's all right, you know?

It's like 1 a.m. therapy sessions and other things that we have to deal with, but it's cool. Just remember, this phase doesn't last. Everyone says that. It's true, and then it moves on to another phase, which will also be difficult in its own ways, but the just like endurance phase of no sleep is, you know, compared, it feels like it will last forever

right now, I promise you, it doesn't last forever. All right. Emily, do we have you yet? Let's say one, two, three, four. Yay, oh yeah, that sounds good. Yes, there she is. She's there. There we go.

Excellent. I come to these things to hear about your lives, basically, so. Right, of course. That's what everybody's here for. We catch up on Friday. We do miss having Ryan though, because he always has something some interesting nugget to drop on us always. Yes, like that. He's already 10 minutes late for a meeting. But

Ryan's on his way to Ireland. So yes. Oh, wow. Safe travels to him. Yes, safe. I we have a bunch of stuff we are going to try to get to this morning. But I don't think we'll get to all of this. But we've got new Epstein stuff in particular, the Andrew Schultz and the flagrant pod reacting to the lack of Epstein, the lack of Epstein disclosures and closing of the case and a lot of interesting things. There are some Trump regrets going on in that pod. So we'll dig into that.

We've also got new tariffs announced. We've got new Zoran freak out and we've got new stuff going on with Israel with immigration. One thing I am bound and determined to get to, but it'll probably be in the premium half of the show, is billionaire Bill Ackman apparently paid his way into a pro tennis match in which he was obviously, he's, what is he, 59 years old? He's not a pro tennis player.

Gets, of course, completely humiliated. The other players on the court, it was a doubles match, are just sort of like tapping the ball to him so that it's not completely humiliating. Andy Roddick went off on his podcast and I'm just, I'm obsessed, I enjoy watching tennis, so I'm interested in it from that angle, but like I am endlessly fascinated and horrified by the mind of the billionaire. Don't you watch golf too, Crystal? Like you, you have a high tolerance. Yeah, but billionaires don't play in pro golf.

They just attend the masters, right? You know, it's like this, it's certainly another thing. I mean, again, I don't watch a lot of tennis. I used to when I was a lot younger, but you know, the idea that you're going to pay your way into playing some of like the top two or three hundred players in the World and then force them to like lower their level of play just to accommodate Your beliefs and then post like a long essay about how How like what did he say he was no it was really good various things I've ever done It's just just actually shocking the level is completely shocking like yeah

I mean, you know, I I was a fairly high level. I swam Division I. And the idea that me at this age would get in the pool with someone who's even at Division I, let alone an Olympian, it's so preposterous. I can't even wrap my head around why you would sign up for that level of public humiliation, which is exactly what he did. So anyway, we can talk more about that later. We have video and we have an essay. We have video, we have essays. We have Andy Roddick going off on. I mean, he was like, he was so offended because this

was part of some like, you know, hall of fame matches and he's obviously part of the hall of fame because he was such an extraordinary American male tennis player. And so he just felt like this was an absolute defiling of the sport that he cares so much about. So, um, in any case, that will probably be in the premium portion. Let's go ahead and jump into some of these clips from the flagrant pod. So the first one, I think the first one I have here, yeah, is where they're specifically talking about the promise to release the Epstein files

and then now Trump being like, I can't believe you're even, why are you even bringing this guy up like this creep? Why do you even care about this guy? Let me go ahead and play this. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? We have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep?

So we're stupid. Yeah. We're the fucking idiots, guys. That is, I think what is enraging people right now is it's insulting our intelligence. Like, obviously, the intelligence community is trying to cover it up. Obviously, the Trump administration is trying to cover up. Something changed because they ran on this idea to cover it up. Obviously the Trump administration is trying to cover up. Something changed because they ran on this idea of exposing it all. All these guys had great ideas, Cackeye Cash, Dan Polanski. He was ready to tear it all down.

He was ready to tear down the entire FBI office. Shut down the Hoover building day one. Day one. Then they're still standing. And then he goes on, Joe Rogan, and he's like, listen, do you think if I had it, I wouldn't share it with you? I do.

Yeah. I do. I do believe that 100%, especially when you're staring at me like this. Once you protect pedophiles, you are the most cockeyed person in the entire world. So one of two things, in my mind, is impossible. One, you're covering it up.

Or two, nothing really happened, and you exploited the r**p of thousands of children to get your man elected. so which one do you want here that is a very good point there at the end i like it i like it uh and actually i really i want to i'm sad that ryan's not here because he had the best analysis for me which was for a lot of

people specifically like podcasts online like uh you know we can't ever determine like what percentage of the vote swung that way to Trump, but a lot of it was vibes based. And the vibe based was of the outsider exposing the insider, right? And that's kind of how Kamala, how Biden, how the outsider campaign, regardless of whether you say they're establishment or not, like that's how it came off and read to a lot of people. And Epstein story is kind of this vector where for many people they're like,

if you're gonna lie to me about this, or if you're not gonna talk about this, if you're not gonna be honest about this, then there's all these other things that you are lying to me about. And so that's why, you know, Ben Shapiro recently was like, well, Epstein actually is, you know, like the lowest list of priorities for people.

And it's like, nobody's saying it's a priority. It's not like the number one thing, but it's the extent to which you exploited it for your political ends. I mean, in cash and Dan Bongino's case, they literally got rich talking about this stuff. So it's actually extra objectionable to me. But the reason why, I mean,

I was listening to a Shane Gillis podcast this morning with my friend, Matt McCusker, same thing. They're like, guys, like, this is the most bullshit thing ever. You know, they're like, Oh, I guess he's, you know, totally innocent. Shane was like, maybe, you know, Trump is it's like, it's obvious Trump is trying to cover something up. He's probably in the Epstein file. I mean, this is again, like it is a vector of understanding the visceral like

disgust of business as usual and of Washington. You can critique that if you want to. I know Michael Tracy and others have, but regardless, if you're going to sell something like this grand vision to the American public, you either have to deliver or if you're not going to deliver, you need an extremely transparent process instead of basically boils down to trust me, bro.

And I do think it is an important like vibe cultural based conversation around Donald Trump for a lot of the people out there for who this was their entry point into politics which is definitely in the millions I'm not going to sit here and claim it's you know the the swing voter or or any of that but it was a useful understanding and heuristic and Trump you, you know, in that, in that, that clip, I think he's really not going to be able to live that down for a while because it's like, well, you can't really come to another conclusion of like, you're covering some shit up, man. Like you're covering some shit up. You just can't get away from that.

I think it was a real gateway drug to politics for Gen Z because the Epstein stuff was playing out in COVID. And when TikTok was first starting to become extremely popular and the gatekeepers lost a lot of their power around the Epstein story. And so I agree with everything Sawyer just said and want to just add to it, the inverse here is that the implication, if you are suddenly the Trump administration, that is bumbling it in the most clumsy possible way. It is like a satire, the way Pam Bondi has screwed the story up, the way Cash, and like, they just look ridiculous. So the inverse of that, it's not only that they are, or the outsiders coming in to expose the insiders,

they are now horrible insiders, right? So it's not just that like they're covering up, it's that they're also now like completely complicit and really bad at it. Like it's not just that they're covering up, it's that they're also now completely complicit and really bad at it. It's just- Well, from my perspective too, there was always a weirdness in expecting that Trump was going to release the Epstein files because first of all, whenever you asked him about it, he would get very squirrely, very squirrely. Back when he was in office the first time is when Epstein killed himself. And when he

got asked about, Hey, what do you think about Galane Maxwell who's on trial right now? He's just like, I wish her well. So there's that. He doubled down on wishing her well. Then there's a fact, like we know they were friends. We've got pictures of them together. We have like, he was on the flight multiple times. Epstein says they were besties for a long time. Like there are a lot of entanglements there just with him, let alone with members of his administration. You were talking about Bill Barr and his dad giving Jeffrey Epstein his first job at this private school and then he was like wildly

unqualified. There's Alex Acosta who negotiated like signed off on the sweetheart deal down in Florida. Now you got Pam Bondi who also was implicated down in Florida. So like to me it was always preposterous. And there was such a giant blind spot on Epstein where Trump was concerned, because all the fixation would be on Bill Clinton, which I'm happy to say, yes, he's also implicated here as well and had the connections and Bill Gates and all these people too.

But there was just a willing blindness that Trump had anything, any intermingling with this circle whatsoever. And so now that he has not only said, okay, well, there's nothing to see here. And you know, he definitely killed himself and here's the tapes. And we're closing all the cases into Prince Andrew and everything else.

This is a done deal, nothing to see here. Now suddenly people started to go like, oh, you know, he did have all of these associations with this dude as it turns out. So the sort of the eyes are opening. There's a bit of a little bit of an awakening to what's going on here. Now, in terms of the MAGA base, they'll

find a way to forgive and forget, as they always do. That's always happening. Alex Jones is saying, well, first of all, there's a scapegoating of Pam Bondi. Like that's sort of the easiest, the go-to, like it's never Trump's fault. It's someone around him who's sabotaging him, blah, blah, blah.

The other- In fairness, Pam Bondi has been uniquely ridiculous throughout this, but yes. Agreed, agreed. She is being scapegoated, yes. Freelancing and doesn't have Trump's complete, but you know, it is preposterous. And then the other one, there's more convoluted,

like Alex Jones has decided that Trump is using the Epstein files to blackmail the deep state so that he can get his agenda done. It's like, okay guys, sure, whatever. That's vintage QAnon for those of us who are aware. Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree with any of that. I think largely it was because like, oh, well, he's willing to talk about it. So there must not be anything going on there.

I'm agreeing that that's cope. And I'm. Yeah. Look, this is why, again, the combo is important. Like you said, MAGA based MAGA based going to forgive Trump for anything. But the point is, is about where is the culture going to go for a lot of people who are not MAGA in any way? I mean, if you look at Gen Z men in particular, I believe they voted for Trump. It's a slightly higher percentage than at any other time before. I'm saying in terms of even in the popular vote.

Well, I do think that these types of stories were important. I don't think many of those men would consider themselves MAGA in any way. If anything, they're more of like an anti-left voter or anti-establishment left voter. They're very much up for grabs. Very much people, you've talked about this, Crystal, they were Bernie bros or they were crypto Bernie bros in terms of they didn't know it yet.

At the time, they're probably too young. And if the Bernie movement had, let's say, stayed the course, they would have been Bernie guys, if they had stayed with the course. So- Bernie gentlemen. Yeah, Bernie gentlemen. That's right, they would have been Bernie guys, you know, if they had stuck stayed with the course. Bernie gentlemen. Yeah. Bernie gentlemen.

That's right. We know about the, the Bernie to Trump pipeline. Now we may be getting the Trump to Bernie pipeline or the yes. Yeah. Let's play a pipeline. Yeah. So also on that podcast, Andrew Schultz said, Hey, listen, the only people that seem to me like they're really America first are the DSA types like Bernie and Zoran.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to that. The only party right now that to me seems America first is the Democrat Socialist Party. Yep. Bernie is America first. Mamdani and all his ideas that he will not be able to execute and I frankly think many of them are not good ideas but he is no doubt New York first. The policies seem to want to help people here. That's what I care about. If MAGA wants to take this America first thing. I love the dramatic music they put with this. Yes, yeah. That's, they have a very good social media team.

You do have to add it to them. One lie, which is Epstein did not have a blackmail ring on all these very influential people. And by saying that that didn't happen, you have to tell a lot of other little lies. Everyone. Yeah. That's exactly what I was saying.

Yeah. Yeah. And we're starting to see right through right now and it's just embarrassing. There you go. Yeah, I mean that's exactly it. That's a good clip because it also demonstrates the Israel issue. And this is why the Epstein and the Israel issue

are both intertwined, not only quite literally whenever it comes to Mossad, but if you look, I mean, again, I hate to bring it back to Shane and all these other guys, but they are cultural touchstones. Like we have to be honest. Tires was one of the biggest shows in America. Shane is probably the second biggest comedian in the United States behind like Joe Rogan or Dave Chappelle,

maybe even the biggest if you look at ticket sales and others, but for him, you know, I recently saw this clip where he was like celebrating whenever Trump would see, you know, like, oh, we're gonna not bomb Iran. But then when he was like, oh, and there Trump is back because he was saying, BB should not be prosecuted. There is like a America first,

like discussed at the obsession over Israel and the view that we are Israel's pawn, you know, in this great game. And so there's the policy level and then there's also the general vibe level where again with Mamdani and I can't get away from this, the way that he was able to frame him, to frame the others as obsessed with Israel

and issues that have nothing to do with New York is one of the most important things that has happened in politics. You talked about this recently, Crystal, about the defeat. I mean, this is the largest Jewish city in America, right? And New York is New York City, the largest Jewish population or not even in America, in the whole world. And so I think Tel Aviv is the only city in the world that has a larger population, Jewish population.

Right. So outside of Tel Aviv, you know, to have him get elected on the back of, I would stay here in New York. That is again, you know, look at the way the Andrew message and all of that. That's important. And maybe we'll talk about this later with, you know, like the news that like Joe Rogan is telling Trump not to do mass deportation and all of that is it's not policy-based.

It is a connection between the politician and the voter as yeah, we may have some disagreements. I may not even take all of some of the stuff you say so seriously, but I do think you're fighting for me. This is something again, why it's so crazy for Trump. This was Trump's genius of the 2016 campaign. And maybe against the insiders.

Exactly, I was like, I'm fighting for you. What did he say? He's like, it's not they're coming for me. They insiders. Exactly. I was like, I'm fighting for you. You know, what did he say? He's like, they're there. It's not, they're coming for me. They're, they're coming for you. Like I forget. They're coming for you. But that was a, you know, that was visceral, uh, actually for a lot of people, it was in a major part of a lot of the ads, especially after the Butler, you know, assassination attempt. And I think what they're doing is they're kind of seeding it away. You know, it's, I don't know if they said it in that clip. There might be another clip also where Schultz said this, but he was like, he, cause he doesn't just talk about Epstein and about Israel.

He was talking about the big, beautiful bill. Right? So all of these things compound on each other. Yeah. Let's take a listen. Let me play this and I'll get your reaction. All this time. Yeah.

And this is my theory with like, are politicians individually corrupt? Like perhaps, but I wonder if just the throne is like the institution, the systems in place are inherently kind of corrupt. And so you can have people like cash, who's probably like, working good faith while he's campaigning and like on the buildup and like all this time as a was a prosecutor for the state, like he's like doing good work, and gets in the role gets

Read in on a brief and goes all right You know I mean like I like to me that seems like the most logical thing. I believe that about Trump I believe when Trump everything he campaigned on I believe that he wanted to do and now he's doing the exact opposite thing I don't know what he's done. Yeah, exactly to your point. If you tell me, it's easier for me to believe you wanted to do all these things if any of them were happening in the way that you said they were. To that point, there'll be people that'll DM me back,

you see what your boy is doing, you voted for this. I'm like, I voted for none of this. He's doing the exact opposite of everything I voted for. I want him to stop the wars, he I voted for. I want him to stop the wars. He's funding them. I want him to shrink spending, reduce the budget. He's increasing it. It's like everything that he said he's going to do except sending immigrants back. And now he's even flip-flopped on that, which I kind of like. But he's like, oh, well, we kind of need the people working in our accounts and we need our farmers. It's like everything

that he said that he was going to do he can't buy. He said to us, which was important and I thought it was good, he pressed him on it, well you got to start with the criminals in terms of deporting. I don't think he's, I don't even know the criminals are getting sent back. I know there's a lot of people with gris, people with green cards getting sent back, there's people who aren't criminals getting sent back. I don't know if you're sending back the criminals first. Definitely don't want them first. I don't know if you're sending back the criminals first. You definitely don't want to first. I don't know if you're sending them back at all. So-

What'd you think of that, Emily? Well, I just have to say this contrasts so starkly with the mood of Republicans in Washington and should be an incredible dose of cold water because they are riding very high. They feel great about the big, beautiful bill, having things like no tax on tips. They feel very good about it, having no tax on overtime, and we could get into the nuances of those policies, but they feel like they're on the cusp of something in Gaza and that Trump has all of the momentum in the world. I really can't state enough how that represents the way MAGA feels right now

and the way the Republican party here feels right now. They have the wind at their backs. That's what they think. the way the Republican Party here feels right now. They have the wind at their backs. That's what they think. And meanwhile, the vibes are not anywhere near where they are. And Sagar, I actually think part of what you talked about with Tucker Carlson this week, you made a very interesting point that the conversation you both were having on his show about 10 years ago might not have been happening in any mainstream way whatsoever in the depth and with the level of scrutiny and skepticism of the establishment that exists. And I think the Trump Trump world believes that they have way more control over the discourse

that and the vibes. Then that's a great point. You know, actually to pick up on that, it's true. I have been struck by the exact same feeling with people who are reaching out to me and be like, Oh, why are you so down on Trump? And I was like, man, you guys just don't get it. Like I was like, you guys really think that this big, beautiful bill thing and this Iran thing, they're like hoovering up all of this MAGA cope from Charlie Kirk's Twitter feed. And you know, the irony is if you actually listen closely, if you listen to the Charlie Kirk show and all of that,

there's not nearly as much of this whole trust Trump thing. I actually think it's a kind of a similar dynamic to how Democrats had the Twitter is not real life problem. It's exactly. MAGA has become such a ubiquitous like force on Twitter. And there's like all of these like Blue-check weird accounts that are just constantly posting like Trump wins or any of these other things that they just really believe a lot of Their own BS like you they actually think the big beautiful bill is popular. It's shocking

I was like I was like I do not know what you guys are smoking to think that there is any level of like the enthusiasm for this beyond like what they're happy about is they're like, look at our legislative victory. Like we got thrushed through the house. I'm like, bro, you're having a process conversation. No, good. He's a fuck about that. You know, it's like they care about what's in the bill. They call that like epistemic closure where there's just no ability for other information to penetrate because it's like you decided that polls don't like reflect reality. So even though every poll is like this thing is underwater 40 points with independence,

that's just completely discarded. They're like, yeah, but there was a cat turned poll that said whatever, you know, well, or yeah, but when people see it in their pocket books, they'll be happy. Like that's a lot of it. That's the cope. And then because you have this like closed media ecosystem, and then Trump is not only a billionaire, but also is the president of the United States and has gone out of his way to have nothing

but just like the most embarrassing sycophants around him. And yes, he's certainly not getting any accurate information. And so I haven't heard, I and you know, I haven't heard I don't know, I don't watch war room every day. But I haven't heard Steve Bannon not every criticizing the big beautiful bill since it's passed. Yeah, in advance, he was sounding the

alarm about like, hey, a lot of MAGA are on Medicaid. And hey, maybe we should like actually increase the taxes on the rich. Now this past he's basically shut up as far as I can tell. And so even though the messaging against this bill is so obvious of they're taking your health care to fund a tax cut for the rich, even though that's such a layup, even Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer can figure it out, they're just so closed off from reality

that they don't see it whatsoever. And then there's also just a yellow quality to this administration. I don't know if Trump is planning to run again, third term, I don't know what's going on there. But he's put the immigration bucket firmly in Stephen M's hands. You know, we'll talk maybe, I'm not sure if we're gonna get to all this later or not. There was this Washington Post report that Joe Rogen was like, hey, you know, can we like dial it back with

the farm workers and the whatever? Well, there's footage today of a massive rate, including like helicopters and militarized vehicles and whatever on a farm. So Steven M. It's a weed farm. To be clear, it's a weed farm. It's still a farm. It's a marijuana farm.

Well, that's legal in California, Sager. All right. But in any case, you've got alligator Alcatraz, you've got C-Cot, like clearly he's just like, Steven M, you do your thing over there. And there seems to not really be any care or concern even for whether any of this is going to be politically palatable to the masses. And so that's been, that's been my biggest surprise from Rogan, Schultz and others is the discomfort with the immigration, with the deportation policy, because you could say a lot of things about like, so for example, on the Ukraine war, Trump has definitely been different than was

advertised, right? You could say, you know, on cutting Medicaid, that's certainly different than advertised. Like, you know, there are things that I can say, okay, this is a little different than what was portrayed on the campaign trial, even though I would say if you look at the first term, you know, there are things that I can say, okay, this is a little different than what was portrayed on the campaign trail, even though I would say if you look at the first term, you could have known but okay, put that aside. I'll give you some grace there. Yeah, on immigration. Like, yeah, they had massive, I agree with you. How did you not know? And if you just knew like the most basic facts about the immigrant

population, the idea that there was this mass like millions of criminals that they're going to be able to deport preposterous. And then to the point of Andrew, Andrew, I'm not sure who was talking in that clip about like, Yeah, Akash was saying like, I don't even know if they're shipping out criminals. He's actually right about that. There's new reporting about, it is much easier.

If you're just going for numbers, it's much easier to just go to the farm, go to the Home Depot, go to the garment factory, go to wherever immigrants tend to cluster. And these are predominantly law-abiding people who have been in the country for some amount of time. It takes more resources and more time to track down the criminal gang member.

So the directions have come from Stephen Miller directly and are being interpreted, you know, down to the agent level of like, you can't you don't have time to pursue those cases, because we just need to get the numbers up, which means that actually far fewer criminal undocumented immigrants are being swept up and detained. It is much more of a numbers game of where can we go to get the largest number in the shortest amount of time? Well, I mean, I think that could have been true before the hundred and seventy five billion. If it stands like, you know, we really are not like quite. I don't know yet. I read the same Nick Miroff Atlantic article that you're

referencing there. That was prior to the passage of the bill, which massively, of course, funds like CBP, ICE and all of these other places. But I do agree in terms of, I mean, this is part of the issue, look, no offense, many of these people are my friends, but this is part of the problem with vibes based voting, right, because what you're really reacting is you're reacting against Biden border chaos,

and you're not taking a lot of this stuff actually literally and seriously. I did a monologue, you'll probably remember Crystal, where I was like, hey, if you are voting on issues, I was like, here's how you should vote. And I can't stress enough how much people don't vote that way, and then express surprise and shock whenever these things actually do happen.

And this, you know, I mean, unfortunately, that's just like the way a lot of the country votes. That's how it was during George W. Bush, like, Mr. I would like to have a beer with him. And it's like, oh, well, that doesn't actually have anything to do with Iraq, but whatever. My point, I guess, yeah, sorry, go ahead. Well, I should say there's one other piece I do want to say, though, about the Democratic Party, which is, you know, we played that clip of him being like, hey, the people who seem like they're most America first is DSA.

It really, I mean, it's one data point, but it really does expose the foolishness of thinking it's gonna be like Dean Phillips and Alyssa Slotkin who bring back the bros, you know? And so this old model of politics of, oh, the way to win them back is to like go to the center and to be more corporate friendly and whatever. It's like, no, that's the polar opposite.

Zoran Mamdani won the bros overwhelmingly of all races and classes. Like it was a generational shift and the bros fricking love Zoran. Andrew liked Zoran. Like Rogan, the thing that he knew about Zoran was that moment on the debate stage where he was like, I'm gonna stay here, I'm not going to Israel.

So, you know, there's, I think there's something very important in that even as you don to Israel. So, you know, there's, I think there's something very important in that even as you don't want to take like, you know, the vibes of one particular podcast comedian, but it when you look at the data, that is emblematic of like, if you actually win these, want to win these guys back, it's no mystery what you need, what direction you need to go. And so instead of like fighting Zoran tooth and nail and trying to destroy him, maybe there's something to learn here from this person who was like uniquely charismatic and has a

policy platform that people really were excited about and find him personally compelling. I also think it's a good important lesson for the left. And this is something I was talking about yesterday with Zoran. But you know what the right wing attacks right now are like Zoran is a Muslim foreigner, right? And it's like, no, like Zoran is actually a very interesting study in the modern American left from wearing Chalouard kameez and flipping off Christopher Columbus and saying defund the police

in a clinic glove. Don't forget in a medical glove. To like, and yeah, and to now wearing a suit and talking about New York first, going on the abundance podcast, and then also talking and you know, recently he was like, Yeah, sure. Maybe I'll keep the New York City Police Commissioner. But like to me, like Zoran feels as if he's talking about New York, which is in itself the opposite of being some sort of like foreign interloper, right? And so there is something that important to again, if you do want to talk and take the Schultz thing and try and extrapolate it out into an American context. By the way, I mean, it's not just Schultz, it's Rogan. Like you talked about Tucker and I, my conversation,

we were both praising Zoran for his answer specifically about this. Well, what does it come down to be American? Like it's actually about being and defending America as a concept and not some sort of like transnational, you know, leftism and liberalism, which at its worst of the Democratic Party back in the 2000s, if you know, to the extent that there was a vibes based shift against immigration, it was like there for you there for them and they're not for you. I still think a lot of that is very true. But if you do want to overcome that message,

you have to sell it in an American context and not in terms of feeling like sympathy for subgroups, DEI and foreigners as opposed to your own citizens. This again is the vibe context to which Trump was able to win the immigration debate. I still don't think that the left or liberals have really like squared that circle. They can try, but and that should be a project in my opinion of them for the next three and a half years, like if they do want to win. But the reason why I think that they're the strongest and

why Akash specifically cited there about the green card example and Emily, you noted free speech. This is why the Khalil case matters right because you run on free speech and then you go to you go to Europe you know and you and you lecture them and then we're banning guys for having memes of JD on their phone we're like what the fuck are we doing here you know and then same with the Khalil thing we're like yo this guy and Oz Turk are getting deported for co signing an op ed that nobody read about BDS at Tufts University. You're like, this is insane. This is totally insane. I talked to her about that coffee shop case. I

didn't have a chance to measure this on Tucker. Have I mentioned it here before that the DOJ is suing this coffee shop in Los Angeles, because they, they had a drink or whatever that said that like quote unquote celebrated Hamas and it's like yo this is like going after that baker who wouldn't bake that cake for gays I was like that's not this is the same bullshit you know I'm like by the way I stand with the Baker and I stand with the cop gave him gay weddings yes the gay wedding sorry yeah gay the gay wedding but it's like okay like let them do whatever the fuck they want to do you and I stand with the cops. Gay weddings. Yes. Gay weddings. Sorry. Gay wedding.

But it's like, okay, like let them do whatever the fuck they want to do. You know, it's not a civil rights violation. This is ridiculous. And like that's that is, you know, to the hijack point about free speech and specifically on immigration, I think that's a very, very useful one, you know, for a lot of these for a lot of like the Democratic Party and the modern left to be able to point out, you know, for a lot of these, for a lot of like the Democratic Party and the modern left to be able to point out, you know, that extent, not to mention the economic piece of all of this where the big beautiful bill comes in. So I've

been thinking about this a lot and that's why I think Zoran really is such an important candidate and just the way the right is reacting to him, like in the way that they're calling those like, you know, Muslim, Marxist, Islamist. It's like, yeah, Islamist. It's like guys. What? Yeah. First of all, I mean, it's just in the pride parade. It's so funny. It's so funny to to Indians because I'm like, yo, this is the prototypical liberal Shia. Like to me, he's got a Sufi vibe. You know, his mom directed Kama Sutra, like spiritually, their shit libs compared to even like conservative Hindus like us. So to call them, to the list, it's so, so funny to anybody who's like remotely in the know.

Like to me, he's an American character. And yeah, if you're American leftist, you should model yourself off Zoran. Zoran feels American, he feels New York. That's the way that he talks, That's the way that he looks. He's studied, obviously, he's a very smart guy. He's probably read a decent amount of history in the way that you actually actualize these moments.

And that is very much, man, it really is a damn shame he can't run for president. Like if he won New York, he should just immediately announce like the next day. Because I don't know if he would win per se, but like, damn, it would be interesting. It really is a shame. I think he would really have a shame. He's just talented.

Yeah, he's good. He's smart. You know, he's got a political sense. Yeah, I like it. He's got a rise. And but as people know, I don't like, I guarantee you, Zeron and I would not get along. But it's like, I have to respect.

I have to respect the game. Like if you met him personally, I guarantee you actually would get along. I mean, we had him on. He was great. Like we were, he was easy to talk to. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a cultural elements here that people aren't reading into. I'm joking. But bring in his cultural baggage to the table here. Yeah, I just, I respect him as a politician.

Yeah, Emily, we go ahead with any of that. And then we can, um, we can actually skip ahead to a little bit of Zoran stuff and then come back to the Epstein stuff. Cause there is a bunch of, um, let me, let me play the saw of Dean Phillips. Well, why don't we do that saying that there's no room in the party for both him and Zoran, which is just like very self-defeating on a lot of levels. So let me go ahead and let's take a listen of this The current DNC chair Ken Martin fellow Minnesotan used used you as an example in saying the party is a big tent they can welcome people from from different ideological Geographic perspectives. I think he used the example of you couldn't win a race in Ilhan Omar's district And she couldn't win a race in yours. Um, is there room for you and Mamdani in the Democratic Party. I think it's a fine question.

I think it's one that many Republicans have been asking about whether there's room for traditional conservatives in a party now led by mega Republicans like Donald Trump. The answer ultimately I think is no. We do share many of the same values. In fact, most Americans share a lot of the same values. But as a political party, yes know we do share many of the same values. In fact most Americans share a lot of the same values but as a political party yes you want diversity, you want some differences of opinion, perspective, life story, politics, and experience. But when you

have socialists, when you have socialists in the Democratic Party, I don't know how anybody could argue that that would be beneficial for the party or for the country. Therein lies the great challenge. Same thing on the right, Omar, is mega the future of the Republican Party. If it is, there is going to be a new, grand, successful third party in America because the overwhelming majority of Americans want neither far left or far right politics. They want decency. they want common sense,

competency and cooperation. And no party right now is elevating candidates who represent those ideals. Emily, I saw people sharing this with the news clip about the time that Dean Phillips showed up at an event and literally no one was there combined with the video that Zoran just put out where he's trying to record one of his like trademark videos and he's just being mobbed for like selfies and like, oh my God, I love you. I voted for you. You're the best. Let me get a selfie. Let me, you know. So, um, in any case, which direction Democratic party, but I mean, so he is, he just said

something that is so true and I have to defend Dean Phillips on this point, which is that neither party is putting forward candidates that respond to what people actually want. This I am sorry to do this again, Sagar, but you also made this point when you were talking about the America party with. Oh yeah, we talked about yesterday on the show, which is, yeah, but this is exactly it. They always think that the third party is the third way party, right? That it's the party of

austerity and compromise and centrism, but what people actually want is very different than what any type of billionaire elite, Dean Phillips, sort of a nepo baby, thinks that actually they need, that the voters actually want. So it's not responsive to what people actually want. Here's my other thing is like, you know, he's like, oh he's a socialist so that's So it's not responsive to what people actually want. Here's my other thing is like, you know, he's like, oh, he's a socialist. So that's not compatible. I really I'm trying to get an interview with Tom Swazi, who has like a similar Zoran critique, I really want to ask him, okay, which of these

policies do you find to be completely out of bounds that you can't even exist in the state, like, okay, put the label aside, who cares what he calls himself? Is it the free buses, which are supported by like 70% of New Yorkers? Is it free and affordable daycare, which is like also wildly popular? Is it, you know, the rent freeze on already rent controlled apartments?

Like, what is it that is so outrageous? Is it five publicly owned grocery stores? Like, what are we talking about here that's so crazy that you can't exist in the same party? And we all know what the real answer was. Israel. If Zoran had the right answers on Israel, Dean Phillips wouldn't have an issue, a bunch of Kirsten Gillibrand wouldn't have an issue, Richard Torres wouldn't have an issue, all these people, John Fetterman, were so panicked and upset because he's a socialist. No, it's not about him being a socialist. They exist alongside Ilhan Omar and AOC. Yeah, you are upset because he wouldn't back down with your little, you know, oh well does Israel have a right to exist as a Jewish state? And he's like how about a state with equal rights? Or you know that he supports BDS or that he didn't back down when they asked him which is not even something he said like hey how about globalize the intifada will you condemn this language and he's like no here's where it comes from and I'm not in the

business of word policing the fact that he wouldn't bend at all on any of those things when he was pressed and like under fire. That's what they actually, it's not the free buses, like they don't like that. So it's not that it's not that it is Israel. And Dean Phillips cannot see himself existing in the same party as someone who says everyone should have equal rights within Israel. And the status quo is apartheid and this is a genocide and it's unacceptable. That's why it's just so preposterous. You know, I had high hopes for Dean as people remember because Dean had an opportunity.

No, for real. He was the Cassandra on Biden's age. He could have played that well. He could have done the Obama 2002 thing where he's like, I was the only guy who came and spoke out against the war when it wasn't popular. I mean, that was that's credibility, credibility you know even whenever it didn't nobody cared about Obama's speech at the time as a state senator who was he even talking about Iraq for but that's political talent that's political entrepreneurship and

Dean is independently wealthy you know he could have financed or you know played it into something different but unfortunately since then he's become like a weird like Elon fanboy. And then, you know, he was like anti Biden. But now, you know, trying to defining himself on the axis of Israel. And it's like, dude, like, that's just not that that's not what the base wants or needs right now. You know, not only in terms of the Democratic Party, but that's not where the political future is, if you're like looking at the tide. So it's actually very unfortunate for, for somebody who I think if he played his cards differently, had a real opportunity, but I mean, maybe it just shows that even his run against Biden wasn't really about, you know, principle or

whatever. Like it wasn't like it was just a vanity campaign at the time, which is kind of sad. Yeah. Let's take the cynical read on it and, and keep playing at that thread or that cynically he was smart enough to see where the wind was blowing. I mean, he's from Minnesota. He talked to normal people in Minnesota a year and a half ago and they were like, Hey, is the president dead? And so he was at least smart enough and like understood that it would age well, no pun

intended to question the president's health that like that there would be a reckoning on that. What it shows now is that he's not smart or either smart enough or willing to see where the window's blowing on this particular issue with the base. Can I tell you what I firmly believe happened with Dean Phillips? Because we interviewed him multiple times. I interviewed him on KKF. We interviewed him on Breaking Points. When he first got in against Biden, he realized that the opening was to the left. And so even though he'd just been like a run of the mill, voting for Biden's agenda, like very centrist politician,

he moved himself to the left. And remember, he talked about, like, I had these conversations and I realized we need to be more economically populist. And then when it came to Israel, that was just like, you know, that was a place he was not willing to go. And I had some pretty like, you know, heated exchanges with him over exactly that. And I think that the Israel position has really kind of driven an increasing like right wing shift from Dean Phillips, because and this is something you see happen all the time is like this is one issue that's like central to his identity. He sees the people that he's aligned with. They're more on the right. And it is just like any semblance of oh I'm going to become more progressive all of that is gone, because it's all sort of being driven by his commitment to Israel. And you see this with like, you know, Fetterman, Richie Torres, various, a lot of characters on the right, who see their unwillingness to give any credence to

Palestinians right to like exist and live. They see that as like they're standing up to the woke mob. And that becomes sort of like core to their identity. And so you know, that's how you end up in this place where you think you're being a renegade by literally toeing the line of the Trump administration, the Biden administration, like a pack, you know, all of these very powerful, well organized entities, and you think somehow you're being a renegade. But that really is, I think that is exactly the trajectory that played out with Dean Phillips,

where he started off thinking, oh, I need to get to the left. And then it just ran into the Israel wall and his whole political identity sort of shaped and formed around that. Also a good example of the admin missing the vibes. Yeah, they think that like the Khalil Oz Turk stuff, at least at the time, they thought it was playing well. I know. I talked to them about it. I said, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I talked to them about it. I said, What the fuck do you think you guys are doing? I said, Do you just not understand like the disconnect that's happening here? And they're like, Oh, you're out of touch. You know, you've been spending too much time with us. And all right, you know, we'll see, we'll check in. That's how it's always what I say. And lo and behold, you know, it's so funny. Cause you know, three years ago, they're like,

hey man, can I get Joe Rogan's number or Andrew Schultz? And I was like, oh yeah. It's like, you know, maybe some of us know a little bit about where things go, but look, they don't listen. They're huffing up Fox. Trump is actually more addicted to Fox today than at any time before. That's what I hear. Really? And it is, it's crazy actually, because he has to be brought like printouts of people's tweets who disagree with it. That's kind of how he keeps up with like Laura Loomer or any of these other

people that's because people will print these things out and they'll kind of show him that's the extent to which he engages with the online world and it's just so funny because yeah yeah he doesn't know he really doesn't stuff he does not know yeah but jd's exact reason jd and the rest of them can't be forgiven on this because they're actually on there by the way they're probably more online than i am or the rest of them like they are forgiven on this. Because they're actually on there, by the way, they're probably more online than I am or the rest of them. They are they do. And so for them, it's like, I just don't get you know, where a lot of this cope and stuff

comes from and how they think that people are just going to sit there and take it especially they really believe that these podcast guys were like useful idiots, that they could just like sit and glaze them. And, um, you know, I've already watched basically all of them turn in some way. I don't know if you guys saw like Theo Vaughn in an episode after JD was on he was like, yeah, I really hated his answer on Palantir or something. I was like, wow, you know, I mean, you can see it like all of them are starting to get like this kind of like gross vibe and you know, look, these, these are at the end of the day, like they rose independently and they have independent income streams.

They're not mainstream media. They don't care about the connections to a certain extent or access. And they thought it was cool to have Trump on. And that's mostly what it was really all about. And so, you know, you can only like take them and take advantage of them, I guess, like so many times before they're like, yeah, man, like I really don't like a lot of the stuff that you're doing. And I think that's really starting to permeate in the call. I mean, Tucker is another example. I mean, you know, it's like, that's the most critical comments you probably ever hear.

And yeah, I just put all that stuff together. And I see things just blown in a very, very different direction. But the White White House it cannot be emphasized enough Like Emily said they think this is they're on cloud nine like they are like we are winning It's never been better the Epstein thing is a blip. You know anybody not on the team is just a loser You know panicking whatever the polls are fake, and I'm just like okay I mean, maybe that's a good transition to Canada crystal they're about to slap can't you know I mean this is insanity this is that that was the lowest in terms of his economic approval was during the Mexico-Canada tariff war he's like oh actually Yolo

let's go right back to it for what reason nobody knows yeah here we go starting August 1st we're gonna charge a tariff 35% on Canadian products sent into the US. Still the ones that are part of the US Canada Mexico trade agreement are exempted, but this is an increase from the previous tariffs that have been levied on Canada and obviously comes in a week when some, what, like 22 countries just got like sort of random tariffs slapped on them. I don't know if you guys saw, I was just reading this morning,

the Vietnam, Vietnam was one of two countries that we had a quote unquote deal with. Now, neither of these, the other one being the UK, neither of these really was like flushed out, but it was like, okay, we've got an outline of something that we can package and pretend as a deal. Concept of a plan, yes. Exactly.

Now the Vietnamese are like, you just put a different tariff on us than what we even had been talking about. Like, what the fuck? We, and now we're not even agreeing with your concept of a theory of a plan thing. What is going on? So yeah, I mean, it's just complete madness.

And I think at this point, Wall Street is just priced in like the taco trade. You know, they're just like, ah, he's doing this now. Next week it'll be off again. Who cares? None of it's ultimately going to matter. But at some point it's going to matter. At some point, if you're just slapping 50% tariffs on Brazil

and 35% on Canada and this country and that country and whatever, at some point that adds up to having a real impact on the real economy and on mostly working class people who will be the ones who, you know, disproportionately bear the burden of this. Yeah. And I think that I think again, they're misreading it in terms of, cause the way they look at the story it's, Oh, everybody panicked and the S and P, I mean the NASDAQ closed at all time high, right? On Friday and videos at four trillion. They're like, see, we're

totally vindicated. I'm like, guys really vindicated because you taco because you always back down, right? It's like it's not because of your policy Yeah, by the way keep going But I was gonna say that their argument is that the taco is the part of the taco is the strategy because yeah But we can look at me. What are we getting out of this? Nothing. Yes. I'm obviously just that's what they would respond is like this. But that's what they said about Doge too. And then oh oops, lo and behold, it's like federal spending went up. You know, it's like what? Well, I think on tariffs that they want to make this argument that there's and I'm honestly like sort of torn about this argument that there's a long

term. It's bigger than what's happening on any individual week that it's, and I'm honestly sort of torn about this. I can't, there's a long-term, it's bigger than what's happening on any individual week that it's big restructuring that's in the process. But we're now, what was it? April 2nd was Liberation Day and nothing, to Crystal's point, nothing is really on the books except for UK, Vietnam one not looking so good, China one up in the air, and they are back to exactly where they were the week of April

2nd, which is Scott Besson going on all of the shows and saying, trust us, the phones are ringing off the hook. There will be deals on deals and deals in the next couple of weeks. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. They keep saying this stuff. I don't think that it connects. I think a lot of people are. I think a lot of people on the economic front, I still think that

they really don't quite get like the discontent that they successfully were able to seize upon. I mean, remember, you know, what did the Biden people say? Oh, look at the S&P 500. Look at GDP inflation is going down. And it was like, guys, that's not what actually any of it was all about. And now they're basically in the same position as to why, you know, things are supposedly good. So, I mean, look, every president does it to a certain extent, but I don't know, you know, it's just galling like when you run against these types of things and then you basically become the same type of creature who's like, Oh, but look at the NASDAQ. And it's like, yeah, well, obviously

if Nvidia stock correlated, you know, with us wages, like that's not exactly how where we would be right now. Would it? Well, and they're, yeah, they're counting, they're counting on the sort of industrial policy, which they don't want to call it that in the BBB that's now passed. So the write offs like retroactive to January for expensing, manufacturing, building all those things. And that's another thing that they need to see, like in the next couple of months, significant proof of concept. I agree.

All right, let's go ahead and wrap the free portion of the show here. We're gonna talk some more about Epstein. We got Israel stuff and we will get to Bill Ackman for sure in the premium version. So if you want to get the full Friday show, subscribe at BreakingPoints.com. And for premiums, that part is going to start right now. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute

Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebene, and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you.

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