Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 7/1/24: NYT Says Biden Drop Out, Kamala Implodes Defending Debate, Biden Donor Revolt, 72% Say Biden Mentally Unfit, Far Right Stuns Macron In French Elections, Glenn Greenwald Sounds Off On Biden Age

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

Saagar discusses Morning Joe flips on Biden campaign, Kamala collapses defending Biden debate, Biden donors revolt, Pod Save bros fall in line, White House covers up old man moments, 72% say Biden not cognitively capable of being President, far right stuns Macron in French elections, and Glenn Greenwald sounds off on Biden age.    To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus.

So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community.

I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Hey guys, Ready or Not 2024 is here, and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election. We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. Hello, everybody. We have an amazing show for everybody today. It's a bit of a difficult one for me. It's a solo show for today and tomorrow. Literally everybody but me is on vacation this holiday week, but it's okay. We're going to hold down the desk here. We're going to make sure we bring everybody the news. It's been, frankly, an insane weekend, perhaps one of the most insane weekends in modern American politics. So I'll be here at

the desk and I'll be bringing and breaking down all of the news for you today. Tomorrow, just a heads up, the show is going to be filmed a little bit later in the day, so it will come out late. We are going to have RFK Jr. on the show. I'm going to talk to him about his debate night and all of that. But just to accommodate his West Coast timing, we're going to be filming that show later. So heads up there to the premium subscribers. But we've got two great guests here in the show. Alex Thompson, he is a reporter over at Axios. He's been covering Biden's age and has been talking now about what it looks like behind the scenes with many stunning episodes of the president's performance now that the knives are officially out, at least from some of the White House resident staff. And then Glenn Greenwald and I are going to break down the

basic media cover-up of Biden's age and how this may be one of the great media stories of our time, almost Iraq WMD level screw-up, or at the very least, acknowledging now the truth after covering it up for years of Biden's decline. So we're gonna start in chronological order. We left you on Thursday after that stunning debate. You could see all of our reactions. I could see that many of you enjoyed seeing them live. And there was also a fun moment where you could see both Crystal and I cover our mouths in horror and in shock at just how bad Biden performed in the opening minutes of the debate. Now, obviously, though, what we left you off was the stunning reaction from the mainstream media, both CNN and MSNBC, having a complete meltdown. But what has happened since then has been now

a stunning media correction to their previous cover-up, where many of the same voices who were insisting now for years that Biden was totally cogent, that he was up to the job, that he was actually stronger than everybody else, are now flipping on a dime and saying that he should drop out. First among them, Morning Joe, Joe Scarborough, with the greatest correction of all time. Let's take a listen. If, however, you believe, as do I, and as do so many people who watch this program and who Fear. Just how dark of a place country from Donald Trump over the last three and a half years, I honor and always will. I think we have to ask the same questions of him that we have asked of Donald Trump since 2016, and that is. If he were CEO. And he turned in a performance like that, would any corporation in America, any Fortune 500 corporation in America, keep him on as CEO? Donald Trump lied over and over and over and over again.

And Joe Biden couldn't respond to any of those lies. In fact, as the New York Times said, he spent much of the night with his mouth agape and his eyes darting back and forth. He couldn't fact check anything Donald Trump said. And not only that, he missed one layup after another, after another. Why is this race close? We have no idea why this race is close.

We saw last night why this race has been close and why I fear Donald Trump will be the next president of the United States. A mere three weeks before this debate performance, Joe Scarborough and his co-host Mika Brzezinski attacked anybody who distributed the so-called cheap fake showing Biden old, confused at the G7 summit. And yet on a dime now, after the entire world can no longer deny his performance at the G7 summit. And yet on a dime now, after the entire world can no longer deny his performance at the debate, now all of a sudden we have to ask these tough questions and why the race, which has been going on now for near two years, vast majority of polling showing that Biden is too old and voters don't trust him. Now we can openly say, yeah, maybe it is time to go,

because at this point it is no longer deniable. And we also have major Democratic pundits coming out and admitting the obvious. Let's put this one up there on the screen. James Carville, who himself 80 years old, tells Axios, quote, if he appeared on TV like Biden did at the debate, he should be pulled from punditry. Asked whether Biden will be off the ticket, he paraphrased the economist Herb Stein. that which can't continue won't. That which can't continue won't. At the very same time, the elite media turn has been absolutely shocking to behold. Friday, we woke up to dozens of op-eds from the biggest media organizations across the center left, the New York Times chief among them saying Biden needs to go. Let's put this up there on the screen. the New York Times chief among them saying Biden needs to go.

Let's put this up there on the screen. The New York Times editorial board speaking as a voice and also for the Salzberger family, quote, to serve his country, President Biden should leave the race. I will read a little bit from this and if we can keep this up there, please. President Biden has repeatedly and rightfully described the stakes in this November's presidential election as nothing less than the future of American democracy. Donald Trump has proved himself to be a significant jeopardy to that democracy, an erratic and self-interested figure unworthy of the public trust, blah, blah, blah. Mr. Biden has said he is the candidate with the best choice of taking on this threat of tyranny and defeating it. His argument rests

largely on the fact that he beat Trump in 2020. That is no longer a sufficient rationale from which Mr. Biden should be the Democratic nominee. At Thursday's debate, the president needed to convince the American public he was equal to the formidable demands of the office he is seeking to hold for another term. Voters, however, cannot be expected to ignore what was instead plain to see. Mr. Biden is not the man he was four years ago. Well, I would say he's not the man he was 10 years ago, and that actually has been quite obvious since then. But, of course, this is their way of acknowledging it. They go on to articulate the very basic case of all of the polls show that people think he's too old, and this is going to be probably the single most defining moment of his presidency and of his entire career now going into the November 2020 election.

That is the same view now held by the vast majority of the center left. Let's put this up there on the screen, for example. There are now four separate editorials that have all called for Joe Biden to drop out of the race. Major papers, including The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Chicago Tribune, and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Perhaps most significant in that list other than the New York Times is actually the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, where, remember, the debate was actually held in the city of Atlanta and Georgia itself, battleground state, which Biden only won by some 10,000 votes last time around. All polls that we have right now show Biden getting decimated

in the state, despite the results of the Senate elections and of the 2020 election last time around. So the Atlanta Journal, Constitution, at least a voice for the center-left establishment in the city of Atlanta, obviously saying we cannot back you, even though all signs currently point to him staying in the race. And we will certainly get to that. Let's also show this up on the screen. I mean, these are images coming from actual voters. Look at these folks. This is in the Hamptons. President Biden was actually there on the ground over the weekend in the Hamptons amongst the city's elite to raise money. You can see a couple of young people here actually with signs which really speak to, I think, how a lot of center-left establishment-friendly voters now feel about Biden.

They say, you need to step down for democracy. Please drop out for us. Thank you, next. And we love you, but it's time. So this is not, you know, trolls or anybody like that. These are folks who out of their actual like convictions are saying you need to go because we don't like Trump in a certain way. These voters believe message of the messaging, as you could see in that New York Times op-ed about, hey, we get it. You know, Donald Trump is a threat to democracy, et cetera,

but you need to go because you're going to lose. And there's so many that I have left out here, but the ones that if we just think about it sequentially, Morning Joe, Biden's favorite television show, Biden's favorite host, Joe Scarborough, saying, hey, perhaps it is time for him to go and we don't think that he can win. The New York Times editorial board, arguably the single most important media enterprise in the entire center-left ecosystem and the Salzberger family coming out and saying that you have to go. All of those major editorials that came out. But there were also, if you look at the New York Times columnists, and these are figures who are beloved by center-left voters and others. From Thomas Friedman, who wrote that he literally wept as he watched the debate. And he even titled his column, President Biden is my friend,

it is time for him to go. Somebody who Biden has long relied on. You have so many other figures, Paul Krugman and others. People, again, who are beloved by many of these establishment folks. And even the voters, the type of donors and others that are the backstop of these establishment folks, and even the voters, you know, the type of donors and others that are the backstop of the elite Democratic Party, all of them saying it is time for him to go. But don't worry, don't worry, because it actually has, at least so far, made no difference at all, because the Democratic establishment has decided,

actually, you know what, we're sticking with this guy. Do not believe your eyes and your ears. It's some stuff straight out of 1984. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin,

it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia

that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone,

I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day.

The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and

Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough.

Someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her, until they knew her. Until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying.

This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We have here a compilation of all of the major Democratic establishment power brokers who are actually breaking from these media institutions and saying, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not Biden's fault. It's his staff's

fault. That's the excuse that Jim Clyburn has. Let's take a listen. Take into account the record. Yes, it was a bad performance. I've been around these things. I've been a part of debate preparation before. And I know when I see what I call preparation overload. And that's exactly what was going on the other night. I saw Joe Biden rapping for words and phrases and even numbers that he was loaded up with. The next day, he gets to North Carolina. He's freewheeling. And he captivated the audience. And that's what we should do.

Debate preparation can be tough, but you've got to really do a good job of preparing the candidate not just with information, but with style, with deflection, and the kinds of things that we did not see in Joe Biden the other night and saw it four years ago. I don't like a debate where nobody will do any fact-checking. You just say what you want to say. You know it's a lie. The guy told 30-some-odd lies, and nobody checked him on it

and said that was up to Joe Biden to do. I'm not too sure. If I ask you a question and you lie to me with the answer, I ought to follow up and give you what the facts are and see what your reaction to that would be. So that, to me, was not the way to plan the debate. And whoever did that and agreed to that really should think about what they're doing. Yeah. OK. Well, it was a debate agreed to by President Biden first, who proposed this this debate. There are health care professionals who think that that Trump has dementia, that his connection, his thoughts do not go together. And, you know, while he may be saying we're enablers, we see Joe Biden up close. We know

how attuned he is to the issues, how informed he is. And I debate with him about legislation, not debate, but discuss it with him. He's right there. He's right there. According to Nancy Pelosi, who is somehow older than Joe Biden in her 80s, Jim Clyburn, 83 years old. But that's part of the issue. These are the Democratic establishment. We have had no word from Senator Chuck Schumer, spring chicken at just 74 years old. But what we have is a word from every single major Democratic power broker. They are backing Joe Biden, and they have decided to stick with him. And that is perhaps the most shocking part of all of this. Second, of course, to that is Kamala Harris, who, if anything, probably has the most incentive for Biden to drop out because it appears mechanically she may be the person who would replace him on the ticket. And just watch also as she basically

melts down in some of that post-debate interview with Anderson Cooper in her defense. Everyone now, the line is, yes, it was a bad debate performance, but look at the whole picture. Look at the whole three years. Let's take a listen to what she had to say. The point has to be performance in terms of what a president does. A president who incites an insurrection against the Capitol. No, but I got the point that you're making about a one and a half hour debate tonight. I'm talking about three and a half years of performance in work that has been historic. But is that The man who we saw on the stage tonight, is that the person you see in meetings every day?

The person that you saw on the debate stage that has, for the last three and a half years, up until today, performed in a way that has been about, whether it be in the Oval Office, negotiating bipartisan deals so that we have an infrastructure, a real infrastructure plan where we're putting trillions of dollars on the streets of America to upgrade our infrastructure. Whether it be the person I see in the Oval Office who is meeting with heads of

the military and the intelligence community and in the Situation Room, ensuring the safety of America. The person I see in Joe Biden on the world stage, convening world leaders who often ask for his advice, most recently just during the G7 conference. So I'm not gonna spend all night with you talking about the last 90 minutes. I'm not gonna spend the next time talking about the last 90 minutes. These people are so shameless because he does the most basic parts of the job, sitting in the Oval Office and meeting with people, that is apparently what qualifies him to be president. But this is now the line of the Democratic establishment. It's not about the debate. It's all just about the work of the

last few years. We also have Biden's former apparatchik Jen Psaki taking to her television show on MSNBC to calm the fears of the Democratic base about why it would just be too complicated for Biden to drop out. Let's take a listen. I'm not going to sit here and tell you what to think. But those of you out there who have hopes of Joe Biden stepping aside so that there can be a brokered convention should know that isn't exactly an easy road either. You should know all the factors there. First of all, it would have a seismic impact on the Democratic Party if the president stayed neutral and didn't endorse his own vice president. It would mean also a couple thousand party insiders would be empowered to make a choice on the nominee, not the millions of Democratic primary voters who already

cast their ballots. And it could mean positioning a talented, and there are many Democrats who are very talented out there, but largely untested candidate with potentially low name identification into the national spotlight as the one person responsible for defeating Trump just over two months from an election. You may still prefer that option, but you should know the candidate who was spit out of that process may not be your choice either. And it would all be very messy and potentially very divisive. It would be messy and divisive, except it wouldn't be messy and divisive if you continue to have a dementia and senile president dragged across the finish line and have a historic loss.

Would that be messy and divisive at the next convention and within the Democratic Party? These people are so shameless, again, in their excuses for why it's, oh, it's just too complicated. It's not like we haven't had contested conventions before. And it's not like it isn't a modern political invention to have the nominees sewed up so early. I also love this line that he won the primary, the primary where they literally canceled and rigged the process to make sure that there was no debate and that there were no airing of any grievances within the party. We also saw, this is perhaps the single most consequential one. Let's put this up there on the screen. Former President Barack Obama. He says, bad debate nights happen. Trust me, I know. But this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who cares only about

himself. Between someone who tells the truth, who knows right from wrong and will give it to the American people straight. And someone who lies through his teeth for his own benefit. Last night didn't change that. That is why so much is at stake in November, joebiden.com. Again, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Jim Clyburn, and Chuck Schumer are probably the only five people in the country, other than the Biden family themselves, who could actually get Biden to drop out of the race. And in previous eras in history, there were actually courageous moments where people said, you know what? We can't continue with this. And they said, for the good of the country, we need to act. But they don't have that anymore. Bill Clinton himself, let's put this up there. I mean, these are two talented politicians, people who legitimately in their own

rights actually won two presidential elections, who obviously know the truth. Clinton here is younger than Biden. And he says, quote, I will leave the debate rating to the pundits. But here's what I know. Facts and history matter. Joe Biden has given us three years of solid leadership, steadying us after the pandemic, creating a record number of new jobs, making real progress, solving the climate crisis and launching a successful effort in reducing inflation, all while pulling us out of the quagmire that Donald Trump left us in. That is what's really at stake in November. That is now apparently the new cope is actually, if you look at the totality of his presidency, well, it doesn't matter that he's senile and old

and he's not really running the show because the people behind him are really running the show. And I actually expect this to become a mainstream opinion. I expect this to become the new justification of, look, Trump is awful, so we might as well vote for the people behind Biden so that, yeah, even if he dies or he's completely senile or whatever, it's okay. But there's also some other players who are involved here. And those perhaps may be the biggest criminals in this entire story. Let's put this up there on the screen. The Biden family. So last night there was a vaunted meeting of the Biden family where they gathered together, and I am not joking here, they gathered together for a Vogue photo shoot with Annie Leibovitz, of which Jill Biden was now put on the front page. Now, many are speculating that perhaps it is Jill Biden and Hunter Biden

and many of the Biden family themselves who are the major beneficiaries of the office who perhaps don't want President Biden to step down because that, of course, would take away from their own power and their night in the limelight. Well, as you see in front of you, the Biden family from their own power and their night in the limelight. Well, as you see in front of you, the Biden family is now telling him to keep fighting as they huddle at Camp David just last night. And I'm going to read a little bit from this. President Biden's family is urging him to stay in the race and to keep fighting despite last week's disastrous debate performance, even as some members of his clan privately expressed exasperation at how he was prepared

for the event by his staff. Do you see here how it's the staff's job that Biden did such an awful job? They're like, oh, he overprepared, overpreparation. They riddled him with facts. Maybe it was a candidate who asked for that. And also it wasn't his facts that were the problem. It's the fact that he can't complete a freaking sentence. Now, as I continue down here, he says, President Biden has been soliciting ideas from advisors about how to proceed. His staff have been discussing whether he should hold a news conference or sit for interviews, but nothing has been decided yet.

Now, pay close attention to this one. One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure is his son, Hunter, whom the president has long leaned on for advice, which said that one of the people informed about the discussions, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity. Hunter Biden wants Americans to see the version of his father that he knows, scrappy and in command of the facts, rather than the stumbling, aging president Americans saw on Thursday night. Now, let's think about this. Is it perhaps that Hunter wants his father's legacy to continue? That could be it. Is the other part of it that without his father being president, a rich Democratic donor never would have paid his $2 million in back taxes, which he continues to owe to that private individual. Or perhaps he wouldn't

have made hundreds of thousands of dollars on his terrible art, also purchased again by Democratic donors. Maybe he has a direct financial interest in his father remaining president. And if you're Jill Biden, you are now Dr. Jill Biden, as ordained by the media, and you're on the cover of August Vogue. That's what every lady wants, right? And they even write in the piece about the trappings of power and how Jill Biden is in the motorcade and all the roads are shut down and how she's risen to the occasion. But the Biden family has an obvious direct and narcissistic interest in keeping their patron in office because that's what keeps the cash flowing for every single other person who's involved. Or the trappings of power, which of course become

intoxicating. That's a tale as old as time. So these family members and others, they're the ones who are basically just clinging to the office. They're the ones begging him to remain. The Democratic establishment is either too weak, too old themselves, or I guess just resigned to the process of his total wipeout in November, and they're powerless. So there's cowardice at every single level of this game, not being able to speak truth to your loved ones, which in my view is probably the most heinous act themselves. If you truly love somebody, it's not about your own interests, your powers. It's about thinking and acting on behalf of that person. But the narcissism flows all the way to the top of an arrogant man, Joe Biden himself, who refuses to see his own

limitations. And that has been the story since he announced his candidacy back in 2016. So it's been absolutely stunning. That's just been the last 24 hours, guys, of the media and the Democratic establishment coming together. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually

like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait.

Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day.

The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. questions no one else is asking. If you have a case you'd like me to look into,

call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her. Until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that

to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying. This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's move now to the next part here, just about how they're trying to, again, correct the narrative about what happened. Now, the current narrative is why did Biden do so poorly in the debate when the very next day he appeared at a rally speaking on a teleprompter before a friendly audience in scripted remarks where he actually appeared to be doing pretty well. So let's take a listen to how he actually did during that rally performance the next day in the state of North Carolina and contrast it. I know I'm not a young man. State the obvious. Well, I know. Well. Well.

I don't walk as easy as I used to. I don't speak as smoothly as I used to. I don't debate as well as I used to. But I know what I do know. I know how to tell the truth. I know, I know, I know right from wrong. But I know how to do this job. I know how to get things done. I know what communities of America know. When you get knocked down, you get back up. Joe, what did Trump do? Why?

That last one kills me. Joe, you did such a great job. You answered every question. That is the bar of which Jill Biden thinks her husband did well in the worst debate performance in American history by a sitting president, frankly, by any major presidential candidate. It's shocking. And you also see there Biden, again, in his scripted remarks in the middle of the day saying and acting, yeah, he did a better enough or a good enough job, I guess. But that really demonstrates why he's only allowed to do those press conferences, which are scripted,

which are in the middle of the day, or press conferences where the questions are pre-selected in a minimal amount, why he doesn't sit for major interviews. Because what you watch in the debate is when things are left up to chance and there's not as much input, it's a total and complete meltdown. We are watching now exactly why this man has been so sheltered for so long. And to watch it happen is incredible, especially because even the donors themselves now, they know what's going on. Let's put this up there. And this is actually, again, a shocking story. A private call of top Democrats fuels more

insider anger about Biden's debate performance. So what we are going to listen here is that the Biden campaign manager and the DNC chairman, Jamie Harrison, held a Saturday afternoon call, and this was dozens of committee members. These are ultra-rich, influential donors within the Democratic Party. They largely ignored his week's showing of Thursday night or the avalanche of criticism that followed. Multiple committee members, keep in mind, these are committed establishment Democrats, granted anonymity, described feeling like they were being gaslighted, that they were being asked to ignore the dire nature of the party's predicament. The call, they said, may have worsened a widespread panic among elected officials, donors, and other stakeholders. Instead, the people said Harrison offered what they described as a rosy assessment of Biden's path forward, and the chat function was actually

disabled and no questions were allowed. One person said, I was hoping for a substantive conversation instead of, hey, let's get out there and just be cheerleaders, said an elected DNC member from Colorado. There were a number of things that could have been addressed in this situation. We didn't get that. We were being gaslit. And so they are gaslighting their own donors. And again, the line now from Biden and his family is to actually throw his staff under the bus. Let's put this up there on the screen. For example, preparation overload. Democrats defend Biden after debate flop as voter support flinches. And you see the same line that has been trotted out there by Jim Clyburn and now embraced by all of these leading Democrats. And I am including Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic leader, Chris Coons, you know, from Delaware.

Raphael Warnock from Georgia. Nancy Pelosi. They all defended him. They all said that he shouldn't drop out of the race. John Fetterman, right? He's got some experience in bad debate nights and literal brain damage as well. And what they all say is that, listen, he was badly prepared. Biden actually needs to clean house.

He needs to fire all of his staff who badly prepared him for the debate preparing for this debate, mock debates, etc. He probably has been more prepared than any modern presidential candidate. That's actually one of the knocks on Obama in his first bad debate was that he was badly prepared, or that he did not prepare at all because he was the sitting president. He didn't think that he needed to. So he took that seriously, and he did. And it wasn't a matter of him not being able to command the facts. It was his matter of not being able to command anything, of not being able to complete a single sentence, of coughing multiple times in the middle of the debate, of being confused, of being stone-faced, of just not being able to maintain eye contact, not being able to maintain

or finish a single thought, making a question about abortion, about illegal immigrant murder. I mean, that is not about preparation. It's not about facts. It's about the fact that the man is clearly losing his mind absolutely in front of the entire world. Let's put the next one, please, up there on the screen because it continues to tell some of this story. The Biden campaign is now sending out emails about why they can't switch out other voters, including throwing their own vice president under the bus. And in this email, this was sent out by their own campaign. They say, at the end of the day, we would switch candidates who would, according to the polls, be less likely to win than Joe Biden, the only person to ever defeat

Donald Trump. And for example, their justification is, look, Biden actually polls ahead, even though he is behind of Donald Trump in this poll at 48 to 45. They show Kamala Harris at 45 to 48 versus Trump. They show Pete Buttigieg, again, a member of the cabinet. They show Cory Booker, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Amy Klobuchar, Governor Josh Shapiro, and Governor Pritzker, all against Trump in a June 28th poll from Data for Progress. Now, first of all, there's a little bit of a problem with those hypothetical matchups, right? Which is none of them are actually running for president, which means that the country, you know, Jen Psaki, just to pull it back a little bit for those watching the full show,

Jen Psaki's like, well, they won't have his high name ID. Well, why don't they have his high name ID? Because they're not running for president. So of course people won't know who they were. If they were running, then yeah, I think people would actually pay attention, perhaps scrutinize a little bit about how they are doing. But the level of desperation is that Biden is the best Democrat because he, in this hypothetical matchup, beats all of these other contenders, including throwing your own cabinet members and vice president under the bus.

Preparation overload. And look, actually, during this one rally the day afterwards, he did fine. And that shows you that he can do the job because in a scripted environment surrounded by enthusiastic fans, he is doing well. I mean, if that's not the conditions to do well, and if that's not conditions where frankly, anybody is going to have a good performance, then I don't know what is for a politician. At the same time, there has been an absolutely incredible both acknowledgement, finally, let's say from the Pod Save America bros about Biden's feebleness, about how we should probably drop out of the race on top of then a very snipey and catty response from the Biden campaign. So let's go ahead and listen to the first take from the Pod Save America bros from the debate. But the most important job Joe Biden has as president of the United States is to beat

Donald Trump. And unfortunately, he went into this debate, he was behind. His job was to overcome that dynamic and changed it. He emphasized it. And for the same sense of decency and empathy and patriotism that led Joe Biden to run, I believe this is a moment to at least have a big open conversation about whether the best thing he can do for America to end his presidency as the success it deserves to be is whether or not he should step aside. And already I know, like, because the stakes are so high, you see people afraid to have that conversation and fine. But what I don't appreciate is people immediately saying, well, we know Joe Biden won't step aside. We know Joe Biden won't do this. The panic is real.

It's happening. I almost feel like it is underselling it or minimizing it to call it panicking or like bedwetting. But I think, John, what you're getting at here is I think the reason this felt so dispiriting and so important is because the way in which he lost this debate at a time when he needed to change the dynamic makes us very, very concerned that he cannot change the dynamic in any other setting, that he is not the person to make this argument for himself or against Donald Trump. Like, I just feel like we're now all, yeah, we're now all like grading on a curve. Everything's relative, but it's like, hello, we all, we all saw this, right? Well, that's not going to be convinced that I did. Don't tell me my eyes are lying. Like I saw what I saw. Hmm. Well, that's about as far

as they can go for criticism. Let's put this up there on the screen immediately though, the Biden campaign absolutely loses it and puts out this email. They say, hi folks, if you're like me, you're getting a lot of texts or calls about the state of the race. Maybe it was your panicked aunt, your MAGA uncle, or some self-important podcasters. It is a tough position to be in. So I thought it might be helpful to send you a few responses. Yes, the debate started rough, but voters saw what a threat Donald Trump is to the country. Self-important podcasters. Now, I take that a little bit personally. Listen, you could cast aside all you want. It's not just self-important podcasters. It's your own favorite television show. It's the New York Times. It's Thomas Friedman,

the people who you love and adore, who you hold up as your greatest advisors and as the true intelligentsia of the country. If anything, the self-important podcasters are playing it down a little bit. Let's put the next one up there on the screen, because that really hits it home. You can see here that Jon Favreau, Obama's former speechwriter, Pod Save Bro himself, he pretty much walks it back. He says, I'm just going to say it again, I love Joe Biden. He saved democracy in 2020. His legislative record is arguably the most consequential of any president, including my former boss. And right now, there is nothing more important than defeating Trump. It seems like Biden and his team think that despite what we all saw, the president is the

best candidate to do that. Like we have said on the pod, that's their call. And if they stick with it, we'll certainly keep doing everything humanly possible to help reelect the president, including encouraging hundreds of thousands of volunteers who helped elect Biden again to donate their time and money to winning in November. Stakes are too high to do anything else. So they even walk it back. You're also seeing an incredible effort by the Biden campaign to shut down voters themselves expressing concern about the age. Let's put this up there on the screen. You see here views from the New York Times where New York Times where New York Times reporter Simon Levian went to a Las Vegas rally for Vice President Harris. At that, he was

followed around by a Nevada Biden campaign staffer and twice asked that voters end their interviews when comments began to turn critical of Biden. One undecided voter said he wished that Biden would step aside and let Kamala be the presidential nominee, the staffer immediately interrupted saying, I'm going to stop that here. Sorry, if I can. It's a Biden event. Is that okay? No, it's not okay, lady. I don't know exactly, or miss, mister. I don't know who the hell you think you are. You don't shut down voters who are attending your campaign event, talking to the press of their own free will.

If you want a press conference or you want to control, you're welcome to put your candidate up. Otherwise, who do you think you are shutting down? Voters themselves, people who support you, allegedly, or at least support your party from expressing their beliefs. But that's what the modern Democratic Party really is all about. Let's go to the next part. As I alluded to, President Biden's family is urging him to stay in the race. The strongest voice is the literal crack addict, Hunter Biden. I would just say, whenever your closest advisor is a genuine person addicted to crack cocaine and your son

with a direct financial interest, probably not the best person to rely on. And then finally, whenever it comes to all of this, it's just a validation of so many of the things that we've brought you on the show, from the moments of the G7, from all of the reporting from behind the scenes. This is one where I just had to take a small victory lap before we get to our interview with Alex Thompson. Put this up there. We have elevated reporting like this now for years about behind the scenes people who have interacted with Biden at the highest levels, including more recently at the G7, saying he is the worst he has ever been. The Wall Street Journal, which was viciously attacked by Morning Joe, by the mainstream media and others,

for reporting the obvious that Biden behind the scenes has lost a step and shocks people, for exposing many of the people who on the record, like KJP, his press secretary, say, I can barely keep up with him and the young people. It's so difficult to even keep up with this step. Everything has been validated that we have brought here. but it is clear that people are bending the knee and they will go along with this gamble, perhaps one of the most colossal gambles in modern American history to take somebody so lacking for the job and to basically try and drag him across the finish line.

And that's a good place to actually bring in our next guest, Alex Thompson. Alex Thompson, let's get to it. Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits

as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free

on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast True Crime Plus. So don't wait. murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case,

bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never got any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her, until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Everyone thought they knew her. Until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying. This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh.

I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joining us now is Alex Thompson. He's a national political correspondent for Axios and perhaps one of the best reporters here in the D.C. area.

Alex, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Great to be here. Absolutely. So, Alex, you have been really at the forefront. You've been appearing everywhere lately because you've been covering Joe Biden's ins and outs now for several years, perhaps one of the best source reporters in that White House. And you have a deeply reported story here, which has really caught a lot of our attention.

Let's put this up there on the screen. And this one is from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., Biden, quote, is dependently engaged in many of his public events. In front of the cameras are held within those hours. Outside of that time range or while traveling abroad, the other Biden is more likely to emerge, have verbal miscues, and become fatigued. Alex, can you just tell us a little bit more behind the scenes what you learned, some of the ways that aides and perhaps even the White House resident staff have been kept away from the president? Because those details are pretty shocking to us. Yeah, absolutely. It's sort of the story of the two Bidens. Now, aides have basically, within the White House, have begun adapting around his limitations. And so, you know, for one, and part of the reason why this was such

a shock to so many White House staffers, the debate performance on Thursday, is because they didn't really see him with great frequency. Biden's inner circle that he sees on a day-to-day basis in close quarters is really only about 20 people. Now, of course, people come in and out, which is why, you know, and sometimes they would see a verbal gaffe here or there. You know, one person recounted that, you know, Biden had was talking about calling the mother of a congresswoman. And then the aide had to remind them that he had called. He had actually already called them a few weeks ago. But, you know, those are sort of brain farts that, you know, could be dismissed as one offs. And but but because the circle was so small, they didn't really realize the significance of how much he had slipped.

And so there's really a lot of both this sadness about what this could mean for the election, for potentially Donald Trump coming back to the White House. There's also anger and feeling that the top of the White House had gaslit not just reporters, not just Democrats, not just donors, but even people on their own staff. And one example of this, you just mentioned it, was the resident staff. So I feel this is emblematic of how closely held and sort of protected by this inner circle that Biden was. Now, the resident staff is in every White House, basically just takes care of everything. They make the bed, they change the clothes, do laundry, et cetera. They're sort of everywhere. But within this Biden White House,

the resident staff has been kept very much at arm's length. They are sent home early at times. There is a deep division within them. And really, the residence staff is sort of either controlled by or kept at distance by the first lady's office. In particular, one aide in particular, Jill Biden's longtime top aide, Anthony Bernal. Wow. Alex, one of the things that really caught my attention is because you've been reporting on this for so long, you've actually had the courage to write about some of these moments where Biden does not appear all of himself behind the scenes. Can you talk to us what it's been like over the last several years to have the White

House push back on any story that you may write about Biden's age and his limitations? I mean, it's not been fun. I mean, no one likes to get in a fight with the White House. And at times, I felt a little bit out there on a limb, even though I felt very confident in the reporting. I think it's just naturally you look around and see, well, other people aren't writing it as much as well. And, you know, part of that is because the White House comms team, I think, has been very effective at being able to push back on these stories by inserting sort of, well, Trump did, you know, crazy things with his schedule too and watched TV all the time, didn't seem as energetic,

which is fine. I mean, I think those are fair details to point out about Donald Trump and his limitations too at his age. But the thing that I always thought about is that when he started declaring for reelection, I thought of the age issue, not as whether or not it was gonna hurt him or help him in November,

but like, let's look at how this will hurt or help him in 2029 when he will still be president. And I've always just said, and I think I said it yesterday, there is more to being president than not being Donald Trump. And as you saw the White House take steps to manage him, to manage his limitations. I just thought it was really important to point it out, given that he was asking for four more years. And Alex, what has it also been like behind? So I covered Donald Trump. He was arguably one of the most accessible presidents. We were always at the rope line. We could ask him whatever we wanted. Pretty much anybody who really wanted one and worked the system could get into the Oval

for a multi 45 minute,minute, one-hour-long interview. As somebody who has been covering him so up close, what has it been like to basically have been stonewalled and to be kept away from the president like this? The press has had less access. And when you're talking about sort of sustained, lengthy interview style, sort of question and answering. This president, this White House, has limited press access to the president more than any president in several decades.

I'll give you just like a few examples here. This president has never done a sit down with the New York Times, the Washington Post, with the Wall Street Journal, even with Reuters, let alone places like Axios or Politico. He very rarely does sustained sit-down interviews. That has changed just a little bit in the last month or two. You saw him sit down with ABC. You saw him sit down with Time magazine. But those are the exceptions to the rule. You even saw them, obviously, just a few months ago, turn down the Super Bowl

interview, which really struck so many as odd, especially with the race so close, you would think you'd want to reach tens of millions of people to make your case, but they turned it down. So it really has been just in the background, this extraordinary closing off of the president, which also made it harder to report on his age. And Alex, just in general, because you know this man, you've watched and reported on all the people around him. There's been so much discussion about him getting out of the race. And of course, Obama is going to be influential, Bill Clinton. But there's been a lot of reporting now about this weekend meeting that happened at Camp David with Biden's family. How do you see

the dynamics here at play in keeping him in the race and the people who Biden actually listens to? What are they thinking and saying to the best of your knowledge? Yeah, the people that he's closest to are telling him he should stay in, keep fighting. He's been counted out before, he's gotten back up and he's defied the odds. And those people are his family. And those very, very close aides, very near him. The Biden political operation has always been a family affair. Going back to 1972 when his sister ran his campaign, ran every single campaign until this last one.

His most influential advisors are always going to be his family and they want him to stay in. So it's gonna be really interesting to see once we get really fresh polling, we've only seen like one CBS poll that should be more concerned about the age now. The July 4th weekend will make it a little bit more difficult. So we may not have a lot of good polls until sometime next week. And the polling is going to perhaps determine donor freak out. And the other thing that's, you know, at least I'm chasing and other people are chasing is really digging in about, well,

Thursday night was probably not the first time he's acted this way, right? So trying to really get, go behind the scenes of the White House and see if there are more details that we have not yet uncovered. Yes, I'm sure they are. My last question for you, Alex, is the emerging kind of cope from my at least view is by Jim Clyburn and others is preparation overload. It's they're blaming Biden aides. First of all, how do those aides feel about that? And then second, what changes do you expect the campaign to make internally or perhaps to the White House staff for preparation the next debate around if he does commit to that? Interesting. Well, I think, you know, and I think some of the staffers anonymously talked to The Washington Post yesterday, which, you know, I think they felt that the debate prep actually went well. I can tell you that they were telling people before the debate that they were feeling pretty optimistic. They were feeling pretty loose.

They felt, you know, it wasn't that he was knocking out of the park, but he was hitting singles and doubles and he was fine. They thought it would just basically, in some ways, maybe even just be a draw. You know, the Biden that showed up really surprised a lot of the people that were at debate prep. Now, you know, it's very possible that they miscalculated by having, you know, stuffing him with facts and they should have just like let him rest, that the debate was more about vitality than actually what he said, which is sort of what happened at the State of the Union. But also, you know, it's it's easier to blame the staff when ultimately there was only one person on that stage, and it was Joe Biden. We really appreciate your insight here, Alex. You're welcome back on the show anytime, and we'll see you later.

Thanks, man. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie.

In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there.

Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough. Someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her. Until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying?

This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Shifting gears now and referencing something that Alex just brought up in that interview is the polls. CBS News put a major poll into the field about President Biden and how voters are reacting to his age. And shocker, it is not great. Let's put this up there on the screen. Does Biden have the mental and cognitive health to serve as president? This is cognitive voter, registered voters. Does, 27% for Biden. Trump, 50%. Does not, 72% for Biden, 49% for Trump. So basically half for Trump,

vast majority for people, almost three-fourths saying that Biden does not have the cognitive help. I'd really like to meet those 27%. I always forget about the number of old people in this country. Let's go to the next part, please. We can put that one up on the screen. At the debate, which candidate, quote, presented ideas clearly? 21% Biden, 47% Trump. Appeared presidential, 28% Biden, 46% Trump. Inspired confidence, 18% Biden, 44% Trump. Explained plans and policies, 35% Biden, 44% Trump. Explained plans and policies, 35% Biden, 43% Trump.

My biggest takeaway from this one, guys, is Trump is not exactly hitting majorities or even home runs here. He's just doing basic singles and doubles for the people who already support him. It's just that Biden did so poorly that Trump looks like a grand slam champion in comparison. Let's go to the next part here. This is honestly the craziest one. Should Biden be running for president? Should is 28%. It was 37% in February of 2024, not that long ago. Should not, 63% in February, now at a full-on 72%. So the vast majority of people saying, no, he should not be running here. Only a quarter of Americans even believe that he should. Let's continue down the line. Should Biden be running for president? This is amongst Democrats. Should, currently 54%, so still, you know, slight majority, but you've got a full 46

who say that he should not. And previously it was two thirds of Democrats in February who said he should, and only 36% who said that he should not. So when we combine all of this stuff together, we really just see like how much of a disaster this entire thing is. And then finally, let's go to the next part. Why shouldn't Biden be running for president? And the number one answer amongst people who say that he shouldn't is his age. 86% his age. 71% say decisions he might make in office. 66% his record as president. And 59% in his ability to campaign effectively. I mean, if we put all of that stuff together, what we really see here is that this is the single most defining issue for Americans, for Joe Biden. It's not about the policies.

It's not about anything else. It actually reminds me, and I talked a little bit about this before the debate. Ahead of the 1984 election, there was a similar conversation in this country. Is the 60-something-year-old Ronald Reagan, too old to be elected president. And there was a famous moment, Roger Ailes, the eventual chairman of Fox News, who was an advisor to Reagan, really just brings it to brass tacks. And he's like, Mr. President, the American people just want to know one thing. Are you too damn old or not to be running for president? And Reagan understood that so clearly going in.

He said, I just need to be cool and breezy, the reason that people elected me in 1980, but I've got to address this age thing in a fun and a playful way. And he has that moment where he says, I will not use my opponent's youth and inexperience against him. It was great because it showed he was up to it.

He's got the cognitive ability to handle the job. He's funny. He even makes Walter Mondale laugh and the moderator themselves. And boom, basically the conversation was over for the American people and for the debate and for the media. Biden had a very similar mandate coming into this. That was it. The only single question, is he vital enough to handle it? And I would say, if you look back at our predictions ahead of the time, there was decent enough evidence that at the big moments, he mostly comes to play. What we now find out though, is that because those are so scripted and so managed,

is that the disparity between the scripted Biden and any level of uncertainty or chaos has reduced him to a husk of his former self. And that's what the American people really saw on debate night, which is shocking and crazy because self. And that's what the American people really saw on debate night, which is shocking and crazy because that means that that's what it's like, let's say, in the middle of a crisis. Let's say not between the hours of 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Let's say exactly how and what it is like to be president and have the hardest job in the entire world. It also validates the single biggest criticism and concern about the Biden presidency. Age, almost two years now, vast majority of Americans say, I think he is too old

to be president. Even in the scripted, the off-the-cuff moments, there have been enough clips that have emerged of people going, I don't know how I feel about this one. You saw it in some of those press conferences, the Afghanistan press conference, for example. You see in a few of these weird moments that happened to be caught, the G7 is just enough few reporting anecdotes that are out there about how he's not really all the way with it behind the scenes. And then it just bursts out to become, I think, the most defining image of the man. It will endure for all time. He could come out and knock out Donald Trump, take a full course of TRT or whatever. And he still, I think, would be defined by that presidential debate because it was a concern that so many people had for so long.

And it's very rare, honestly, in this business for somebody to deliver just such a horrible and horrific presentation. Most people don't rise to this level and really be that bad. It's actually pretty tough, as the White House has shown, to actually cover up things to this extent. And it was a perfect storm. It was the media offering excuse after excuse. It was Lester of Two Evils argument. It was a White House staff. And also Trump sucking a lot of the oxygen out of the room. I would say this is actually one of the first times in a long time that Trump is not the first main story in this country. And that's part of the reason, too, that this is very much to Biden's

detriment. So as Alex alluded to in our polling in our previous segment, we'll see. We got to wait and actually watch what happens with some of these polls. July 4 is going to shake some of that up. But I predict, you know, with the media coverage of this, with what everybody saw, it is just going to be annihilation. Already, actually, there's a piece of reporting, probably talk a little bit more about this tomorrow. Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, called up Jen O'Malley Dillon, the campaign manager for Biden, and said, Michigan is gone. After the Biden debate performance and a lot of this Gaza outrage, it's over in the state of Michigan. Recall, that was a state that Trump won in 2016,

critical to his election, also critical to the so-called blue wall hypothesis. And if you include Georgia, Arizona, Nevada there in the Trump column, I think that is all pretty clear. Let's turn now to the French election, something we don't want to keep our eye off of and which we've anticipated a long time here on Breaking Points. Absolutely stunning results for history here, but perhaps not because of the polls. Let's put this up there on the screen. The French legislative election has happened and the far right won the first round. Macron's party suffered a absolutely devastating loss. So the National Rally Party has won now, quote, a crushing victory in the first round of voting for the French

National Assembly, basically bringing this nationalist party to the brink of victory for the first time in decades. So the official results from the French Interior Ministry says that the right-wing coalition won about 33% of the vote. Macron's party and its allies took about 20% to end in the third place. The coalition of left-wing parties called the New Popular Front won about 28% of the vote. These are like moderate socialists and others. The reason why this is very important is it shows us that the political center has been absolutely destroyed in France. That's really what Macron was gambling on. You take elements of the left and the right, you cobble it all together. Here now, voters are making it

clear. They're like, no, no, no, no, no. We are done with that. Macronism, Jupiterianism, compromise, etc. That's over. We're either going left or right, and that's it. So this is a bit complicated because in France, it's a multiple round election, and there will now be a runoff. Now, in those runoffs, you can have up to three parties, which means that you will have the far right, you will have the left-wing coalition, and then you'll have the Macron coalition. Now, there's actually an even more further left coalition. They have decided to drop out and to endorse the left-wing coalition, meaning that there will be three. Now, in the actual results themselves, the way that it all worked out, we can put this financial time story up on the screen, they are trying to decide exactly what they're going to do. So to explain here, out of all of the districts that were counted, the right wing finished first in 296 constituencies out of 577. Think of it like seats in Congress.

While the left wing got 150 and then Macron's party, 60. There are 65 constituencies where there will be two-way runoffs between the right and the left. The party needs 289 seats for an outright majority, okay? An outright majority. Now, the Macron party needs to decide whether it will drop out and endorse the left-wing coalition, making it a two-way race, and probably at least somewhat guaranteeing that the left-wing will take power or not. But they have decided not to do this at a party-wide basis. Instead, they say they will, quote, make case-by-case decisions based on whether a left-wing candidate was compatible with Republican values, but they will not exclude any party. Now, again, this means

that in some seats they may drop out, in others they may not, but Macron and his party really have a decision to make because who the hell are they going to back when they only got third? They got some 20% of the vote. The right-wing coalitions get 33% of the vote. Left-wing's getting 28. Keep in mind also, massive turnout in France, right? I mean, 67 percent of people coming out to vote in the snap election. And I will say this, what it does at least inform for us is it shows us people are done, at least in France, with compromised politics. Now, what does that mean perhaps for us? Think back to 2016. You have Modi, who wins in India, destroys the centrist coalition in India, basically for all time,

at least up until now. He still wins an unprecedented third term, even if it is somewhat of a compromise government. Then 2015, you have the destruction of the European Union consensus in the UK, the neoliberal elite. Basically, David Cameron calls this election. He has no idea what's going to happen in this referendum. He thinks he's going to win. And then boom, Brexit happens, and they decide to withdraw. And it shakes up politics again to this day. Rishi Sunak has fallen. Rishi Sunak, Boris Johnson, and Theresa May, the Tory party, basically getting destroyed now at this point, poised for a historic defeat. They too are going down. And there is now some weird coalition of centrism, Labor Party,

but anti-Brexit and acknowledging where the country is today. So there's that. It basically roiled politics there. Then you had the election of Donald Trump here in 2016. And then in recent times, we've watched a lot of stuff happen too. The French election, just the latest in the rise of right-wing parties across Europe from the AFD now surging in Germany,

Maloney's victory in Italy, and also the brand of, I would say, nationalism embodied by Viktor Orban in Italy, and also the brand of, I would say, nationalism embodied by Viktor Orban in Hungary, which originally was very isolated by the neoliberal elite of the European Union, becoming much more normalized. I also forgot about Nigel Farage, who is himself mounting a candidacy in the UK, and by all accounts, a lot more popular, or at least as popular as it's been since the Brexit days of 2015, perhaps one of the most important figures in all of that. So what does that mean then for us? Well, here we have the double whammy of both the unpopularity of the neoliberal elite here embodied really by Joe Biden and his candidacy on top of the collapse of his own personal brand

with his age. And then you see this hollowed out elite of Obama and Bill Clinton, what we spend so much of our early time on the show, basically saying, it's lesser of two evils, guys. There's nothing that we can do. So eventually, no matter what happens in France, whether it's the left wing that takes power

or the right wing because of Macron's own narcissism, the destruction of the center is itself, I think, the central political story of now the 2020s. Biden himself, it looks more like an aberration than the rule. And I think increasingly, that's the way that we are going to look back on a roiling political decade in the same way that we do back in the 1970s. In some ways, we have a lot of the same characteristics, even the rise of leftism in France, if we want to go back and think about the international context. And also in terms of retrenchment, in terms of America's position abroad. So there's big questions that have to be asked now for Europe about who are they? This would shake up dramatically.

France is a bedrock of the European Union. Macron is like the biggest EU guy that there is. He wants an EU army, EU foreign policy. He's been pushing a much more hawkish position towards Russia in the Ukraine war. That's going to have major consequences. The Le Pen party historically has always been a lot closer to Russia. They apparently also would change their policy vis-a-vis Gaza. So that could change things in terms of becoming more right-wing, more sympathetic to Israel in that conflict. It could change things also in terms of our own politics about what those trade disputes and all that will look like if they perhaps will be more sympathetic to the nationalist

trade ideology, which has been bipartisan here in Washington. So there's major implications, I think, for the entire continent and for our own elections. But we will watch and we will see and update you on that analysis. In the meantime, we've got Glenn Greenwald. He's going to join me now to talk about the media and Joe Biden. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left.

In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fat phobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is

too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. I've never found her, and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out

there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran, a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her, until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was, you know, dying. This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh. I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying.

Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Very excited now to be joined by my friend Glenn Greenwald. Crystal was out of the show when I said, who is the best possible person that I could talk to? And of course, it is Glenn here for his reaction to the debate. I appreciate you very much for joining me.

Thanks, Glenn. Yeah, happy to be here. You know, I've had a longstanding plan to overthrow Crystal and take her job. So hopefully this is my audition for that. Very excited. Let's see how it goes. Let's see how it is. We'll audition you for sure. Glenn, you Let's see how it goes. Let's see how it is. We'll audition you

for sure. Glenn, you and I were just giggling literally before this segment because there is something just so delicious about both of us constantly just looking at the way that the media has been covering up for Joe Biden now and for it to just come crashing down in front of their faces to expose them, honestly, as even bigger liars than we had seen before, has just been an amazing moment. So now we're 48 hours in or so into this. What has been your takeaway so far from the way that these people carried themselves for so long? I think it's really important to remember that the people who first raised concerns about Joe Biden's cognitive decline and cognitive inabilities were people speaking in 2018 and 2019.

And these were Democratic Party operatives, insiders, very worried that Biden was going to get the nomination kind of by default because he was by Obama's side, and thought they had this whole team of glittery new candidates who would do much better. And they were trying to warn people, including in public, this is not the same Biden. He's lost his fastball, using all these words. And it was a main theme of attack by people like Cory Booker and Julian Castro who were running against him when they would say things to him all the time like, hey, Joe, did you just forget what you said two minutes ago? It seems like you forgot what you just said. And this has been in the air for five years. And then once Biden got the nomination, it then became prohibited to

raise it. The minute you raise it, they said, oh, that's a Sanders supporter or a MAGA fanatic attacking the character of this good man. But also there's been reporting over the last year, including in the Wall Street Journal just a month ago, that was very deeply reported about how oftentimes in meetings Joe Biden just kind of zonks out. He kind of disappears. He disorients. You can't hear what he's saying. What he is saying is nonsensical. And the idea that anybody in media was shocked to see this version of Joe Biden on the debate stage is such an insult to our intelligence. And that's especially true, given that Americans, ordinary Americans plugged into nothing and nobody have been saying this for years that they could see this with Joe Biden. So the media kind of wants you to believe that they were the last people to see it.

Of course, what happened is they got caught lying and hiding for him, attacking anybody who raised this over the last year as some sort of, you know, peddler of disinformation. And they were forced to admit what everybody saw because even they, with their tiny credibility, couldn't deny it any longer. And now you have all these fraudulent narratives

circulating about, oh my God, how this happened and who it is to blame. They're all to blame, the Democratic Party, the Biden White House, his closest aides, and especially the corporate media who is aligned with it. Yes, you have always been the best at surfacing that clip of Andrea Mitchell in 2019, who is asking openly about Biden's age. And then six months later, it's actually a stutter that only happened to materialize when he was 79 years old,

from childhood, was dormant all of the years that we all watched him front and center in politics. And what we watch especially is people like Joe Scarborough and others, who perhaps just have no shame. I mean, three weeks ago, telling us that he was the most cogent of any, more than any House Speaker, even than Kevin McCarthy. And then now he's willing to say, actually, he should drop out. And at a certain point, Glenn, this is my wonder. Is this just a flash in the pan of the way that Andrea Mitchell was in 2019? Are we all just going to forget about this as it becomes clearer that Biden is going to stay in the race? Or was this actually a shattered break the glass moment for the media where we get somewhat fair coverage?

I'm curious what you think. My view originally in the 24 hours after this debate, when all of the media were clearly rattled and worse, and they were rattled and worse because the people who they usually listen to, who tell them what to say, which are Democratic Party operatives in the Hill and Democratic Party funders and operatives and electeds, they were telling them, oh, this is panic mode. And so they were just repeating what they were being told. I never believed and still do not believe that Joe Biden will leave the race voluntarily because. And so I've always thought, well, look, once they realize Biden's not going anywhere, they're going to accept that he's been on the knee

and snap back into line. The problem that they have now is that they've been out there saying this for three days now. Biden must resign. The biggest media outlets in the world are saying it. There's no way to undo that and just go back to pretending, oh, that was just one bad debate night. In the scheme of things, he's still the person we want in the Oval Office. They're going to try. I don't think, I don't see how that could be done, though. I don't see how it can be done either. Another avenue that I've loved watching you combat is everyone's like, it's real pity that Biden performed so poorly. So we can't call out Trump's lies as if Biden himself did not pervade like two massive lies on the debate stage. Just to my knowledge, the first, perhaps most disgusting one is denying that American troops did not die under

his watch when we both had those incidences in Afghanistan. And then most recently, those three American service members who were killed in Jordan as a direct result of his Israel and Iran policy. I mean, how is it possible Joe Biden went to the funerals of all of those people, those service members? And it's not just one time that he might have forgot about it, it's multiple times. And, you know, on top of that, there were so many lies that Joe Biden defended as well. You know, if you're Daniel Dale and you're doing the little administrative accounting, maybe it's not quite as many. But I mean, the thing is, Sagar, you know, the way they all talk about Joe Biden, oh, he's a fundamentally good, honest and decent man. Joe Biden is somebody who's been lying about his entire life and himself for decades, and he still does it. He still tells the stories about how he

was arrested trying to see Nelson Mandela, or arrested for participating in the civil rights movement. He makes up all kinds of stories about his family and himself, none of which is ever true. He, you know, of course Trump lies like a politician lies, but so does Joe Biden. And the narrative they're trying to create is, oh, yes, Joe Biden may have had a bad debate, or maybe he's even intellectually impaired, but that's way, way better than somebody who's an evil threat to democracy and a fascistic liar. Because I think that's the thing that they really have been telling themselves for so long and now actually believe. I think you're right. Yeah, I think they do believe that. And that line you just said about he's a good and a decent man is that he is a

decent in their view because he lies the correct way. He lies about the things that you're supposed to lie about. He lies just by the policies that they believe in. And then they smear anybody who doesn't believe that with that label of misinformation and more. And that is one where I just can't help but come back to what you originally said about how we are going to get to this point where they're going to try and they're going to try and bring us back

to the lesser of two evils argument. And the only question is just how much credibility they're going to expend in the meantime. I think my real question for you, Glenn, is both in terms of the Democratic operatives and their legitimacy, is given the way of how slavish they have followed MSNBC and others, is this going to be a breaking point for them? Or do you think that they will actually think for themselves whenever it comes to election day and he's on the ballot?

I mean, I would put it more not that the Democratic Party or the Biden White House follows MSNBC, but that MSNBC and CNN are usually doing the bidding of the Biden White House messaging. And here, obviously, they are not. And I don't think there's any way for CNN and MSNBC to go back to and undo what they've all been saying for days. Even they, with the tiniest little credibility that they have, that would be a step beyond their level of shame, which is as close to zero as possible. And I think that's the problem, is how do you rely on the people who have always lied for you and shielded you and helped you, which are these media outlets single-mindedly devoted to defeating Donald Trump,

on the one hand, saying that you are too mentally impaired to be the president, and on the other hand, continuing to work with them or use them as your primary media outlets when, you know, they've really gone very far for days now in what it is that they've been saying with multiple media outlets, Biden's key media allies saying he should withdraw from the race. I mean, it's just such a shocking display here. I am genuinely so excited to see how it all plays out. And your feed and your show is the first place that I turn to. So thank you so much, Glenn, for helping me fill time here at the desk. I would rather have nobody else but you. Including Crystal. Oh, no, I didn't say that. I would rather have nobody else but you. Including Crystal.

Oh, no, I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I know, I'm just kidding. We love Crystal. It was great to be on your show. Always good to talk to you. Great to see you, man. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for watching. I hope it was okay with me doing solo. I'm trying my best here. It's pretty tough without anybody to talk to, but I did my best. I'll be back tomorrow with a similar show. Reminder, guys, it is going to come out later than usual to accommodate RFK Jr.'s schedule, but I am excited to talk to him and hear from him about the race, about the debate,

and about how things are going to go forward with his campaign. Stay tuned for that, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today.

Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case.

If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stay informed, empowered, and ahead of the curve with the BIN News This Hour podcast. This is an iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.