Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 7/1/26: Leaked Oct 7 Hannibal Directive Tapes, Colombian Elections, Major New Brain Discovery

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Ryan and Emily discuss leaked Oct 7 tapes on Hannibal Directive, Colombian Bukele takes power, Med establishment shook by new brain discovery.   Juan David Rojas: https://substack.com/@rojasrjuand Shalin Bhatt: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/42249196/      To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com    Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's Vacate to Vacation Week on the Ok Storytime podcast, where she caught him buying gifts on Amazon and then taped the 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. So she planted evidence before he even took off? And spoiler, so far. Two years later, karma hits so hard. He's calling his ex-wife in tears, saying about his mistress, what a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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This is Sweet 305. Here, oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Sweet 305 with Llelepons on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right

that simply does not exist anywhere. else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. Let's talk about Israel, Ryan, a new video from October 7th, including this Ben-Gavir, right? Right, Ben-Gavir showing up in this video. And we'll kind of read some of the because it's in Hebrew.

So there's a documentary crew who's, or news crew, who's in there filming on the morning of October 7th as the Army is putting together its plan for a counterattack for a defense and then a counterattack. So let's roll this.

And then we can kind of read it for you. Right now, one person says, I would bomb the entire Gaza border, hit them with a blow, so they'd have a real problem. It looks like they're on it, somebody else says, I wrote this to a mirror.

They're not even getting fighter helicopters. I said, no, on Gaza, break it all apart along with the soldiers who were abducted. Yeah. Like that, and the helicopters were then were dispatched, and you see a lot of the result of what those helicopters did. And then Ben Gavir comes in and says, wait, wait, are you filming me? You could film when I give you permission. Please take this out. So that's when they shut that down.

We know we have other evidence of there being hostage situations. in a kibbutz where they just with a tank shell everyone in there. Yeah. Killing the Israelis inside as well. There's all these, you know, infamous photos of cars that have, that were fleeing the Nova Rave just completely burnt to a crisp. Yeah. And we also know that the Palestinian fighters came across the border with, you know, AK-47.

The Hamasca's, yeah, they are... Not the kind of thing that could torch an entire row of cars. Like there was shelling in the morning. Some shelling from Gaza could... If a shell directly hits a car, okay, but an entire highway filled with cars. And there has been some footage from the Apaches of them hitting cars, onshore, blowing them up, unsure, unsure whether or not there were hostages. I thought the government actually admitted or seated that in a small way that didn't happen.

In a small way, now we have this footage of them basically saying, just do it. And if you hit the people who, the Israelis who are abducted, that's part of it. This is the so-called Hannibal doctrine, which says that it's better. Explain that, because that's what's that. Yeah, the Hannibal doctrine says that if there is a potential of a hostage situation or a prisoner of war situation, that it is better to kill all the Palestinians and the Israeli they're trying to take hostage, then get into a place where you're negotiating a prisoner exchange. So it is more important, according to this doctrine, for the Israelis to continue to hold men, women, and children, in administrative detention in torturous conditions,

than it is to let an Israeli live and then enter into negotiations in which some of those people that you're holding without charge and torturing on a daily basis are released. And this is, of course, as Israeli elections are heating up as well. And in 2016, they said they were no longer that the Hannibal doctrine is bad. We're not doing that. It's terrible. Clearly they're still doing it. Again, we're coming up on three years since October 7th, and now that there's an election around the corner in Israel.

I don't think it's – I would be surprised if it was a coincidence this was dropping at this time because of that. I mean, Netanyahu's coalition is that – including Ben-Gabir and Smotrits and the like is one of the biggest complaints about Netanyahu. And so it seems like that would be timed in a particular way to hurt the election. Yeah. I don't know the background. I would imagine this will be a problem. You would hope there are people on the Israeli right who support this policy. Certainly.

Yeah. But, I mean, Natchanahu has a lot to answer for on October 7th. Right. Yes. Focus on October 7th is not great for him, period. No, not whatsoever. And meanwhile, Ryan, I'm eager to get your take on this because the publisher over at DropSight has been informed. She's no longer a member of the committee to protect journalists.

We can put the next element up on the screen. And a lot of this is going, once again, right back to Israel, Palestine. What the heck is happening here? So the CPJ has been under a lot of pressure to redo the way that it counts journalists who've been killed in Gaza by Israel. And so there was this internal debate over how they're going to do this. And at the core of the debate is, what about a journalist? Forever, the way that CPJ has done it, and they're more restrictive than other organizations,

has been to say, what you do is what matters. If you are performing journalism, you're not fighting. Right. You have a video camera, you have pen and paper. Observer. you're writing or producing video for a news outlet or for freelance, you're a journalist. And we are the committee to protect journalists and we are here to protect you. What Israel has been arguing is that there are certain news organizations that are linked to what

they say are terror groups and what the U.S. and Israel designate as terror groups. So pretty much every political faction in Gaza is designated as a terror group by either Israel or the United States or both. And pretty much every party has a news affiliate, just like Israel has state media, Israel has Israeli Army Radio, which employs a lot of journalists. the BBC is owned by the UK there's NPR and PBS but I guess that's

there's state money going maybe the federal government doesn't fund them as much as they did but you get the idea there's RT for instance Russia today there's fun there's Turkish

state media like the idea of of state media or affiliated media is a very common thing and so organizations like CPJ have always drawn a very bright line that have said just because you have a problem with Turkey or with Britain

or with the United States or with Israel does not mean you have license to kill a journalist who works for an affiliate of the British government or the American government and Israeli government or Hamas or Palestinian Islamic jihad or PFLP or like Palestine today like just because you write for a news organization that is affiliated with Palestinian Islam and Shahad. Or in Southern Lebanon, you recently had several journalists that were killed because they said, well, you're working with, you're working for a news organization that's affiliated with Hezbollah or has sympathies with Hezbollah. Terrorists, right.

Yeah. And the distinction has always been no. If you're a journalist, it doesn't matter if you work for RT. like Ukraine for instance would not be allowed to kill a journalist for RT simply because they work for RT you can disagree with that and Ukraine might try to kill them but if you're the committee to protect journalists

your job is to protect the journalists not to defend what they say who they say it on behalf of whether or not their columns that they write are good or fair or even accurate Like, it's not for CPJ to determine. It's like, it's that, was it the Voltaire quote? You know, I don't agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it, but applied to journalists.

I don't. And so what Israel's saying, no, no, if they're affiliated with any of these terrorist organizations that we call terrorist organizations. Non-state. That's what they would say. It's different than Russia or Ukraine. It's a non-state terrorist. Well, I think Ukraine would say it's not. They consider Russia to be terrorists.

Right, right. So why should then Russian journalists be protected? Which is what's hairy about CPJ then? And the other, NANCA made the point in internally that the ANC was considered considered a terror group. The African National Congress, Nelson Mandel's group, was designated a terrorist group until like 2008 or something like that. And of course, they had a journalist, they had a media wing. So if the white South Africans consider Nelson Mandela's organization to be a non-state terror group, should they then be able to kill journalists? Like bomb a journalist tent and kill everyone in it because there's one person that writes for the ANC-linked organization.

The civilized world has settled this question with a resounding no. No, we're not doing this. And so now there's real pressure on CPJ. Nika asked for a vote on this internally. And then they responded by saying, oh, by the way, your term is up. And she's like, well, I resign in protest anyway. Convenience.

You can't fire me, I quit. Right, right. So, you know, and good for Nika for, you know, standing up for the kind of essence of what CPJ is supposed to do. Protect. It's in the name. It's a committee to protect journalists. And as we can put what Middle East Monitor is reporting here, this is going to be, yeah, D3. This comes, obviously, as they report, Israel has killed more journalists than in any other modern conflict.

And I think that is a reference to CPJ's numbers. I think that's per CPJ's prior reporting. They have actually lower numbers than some other organizations because they have a tighter. they have a tighter definition. You've also, now, if, now if somebody wants to say this particular journalist was actually a fighter. Right. And they want to present evidence to that, okay, fine, like present. Which they have in certain cases.

Yeah, and then go ahead and present that evidence. That's different than saying all journalists who work for any news organization that's affiliated with somebody you don't like are fair game to be killed. Some people have responded by posting photos of Israeli journalists sitting on tanks, wearing military uniforms, holding weapons, because almost every Israeli journalist has served in the IDF at some point. Some are in the reserves as they're doing it. And others have on-air participated in firing weapons and detonation. civilian homes. Like they'll film themselves like pressing the button.

And the contrast between that and what they then accused the Palestinians of is so stark. There's also something about there's also a dehumanizing element to it.

Like one of the journalists that they killed who was legendary journalist for 20 plus years. He visited a I think it was a Hamas kind of training camp and with a bunch

of other journalists reported on it. And while there took some photographs like with a bazooka. That's the kind of thing that every American journalist, when they go to visit in a military base, they do that. Go look at any American journalist like Twitter. They'll, like, sit on a tank.

They'll, like, pose with the soldiers. Like, it's almost childish. Like, they think it's kind of cute and cool to, like, get these little souvenir photos of themselves, like, sitting on a tank. Yeah. But we understand, because we understand that they're human, that that's just what it was. They were, in their journalistic capacity, they were visiting an American military base, took a picture on a tank that does not make them a tank commander.

But because we don't see Palestinians as fully human, we just see this flat portrait, if we see a Palestinian on a tank or we see a Palestinian holding a weapon, we say, oh, terrorist. obviously terrorist. Doesn't matter when they held it, why they held it, what's going on, because there's no full portrait of the person as a person. Right, right. It's just, oh, Palestinian, probably a terrorist. Oh, now we have a picture of them with a gun. Right.

And then you'll have these like Aiton Fishburger and others. Like, we'll post that picture of the person on Twitter until they are hunted and killed. With, you know, just completely decontextualized. And then when they're hunted and killed, they'll repost that phone and be like, we got another terrorist. It's like, no, you didn't. You killed an unarmed civilian journalist, who at one point in his life was a weapon.

That's all. Of course, it's been hard for us to even know what's happening in Gaza because the journalists that are there, people who are observing it there. Yeah, of course, of course. And it's the goal for us to not know what's being done. Yeah, I mean, at this point, unfathomable lack of access

that's also inexplicable from just a, if you really cared about people having the ability to document and observe and see what's happening on the ground because you think it suits your purposes, you think it makes your argument look correct, then this decision makes no sense. Right. Well, let's move to Columbia, Ryan, where Juan David Rojas is reporting. An IR Radio Experience. Weekend gold tickets to Ilson Inc.

One, two, three, everybody just scream. In Montreal with Dom Dalla, Chris Lakin, Friends, Woolie, Dead, Mad Mouse, Above and Beyond, sub-focus, and more. With flights from Porter Airlines, three nights at Residence in downtown Montreal, and $1,000 cash. Enter for your chance to win at iHeartRadio.ca. Ilsonique in Montreal, every day you enter is another chance to win. My husband is currently on a vacation with his mistress, and I'm confronting them.

Tell me, Sophia, how did she even catch them? One Amazon shopping receipt. He accidentally sent her a photo of the. the kid's Christmas gifts with a delivery to another woman at the bottom. He exposed himself? That's a rookie move. Couples massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie he then mowed her for. So she spent four weeks gathering evidence and taped a 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. In his luggage, she came to play.

And the second he landed, he blocked her. So she called the hotel room directly and got the mistress on the phone. Ooh, she got the mistress live on the phone? That is a Bold move. Let's see if it pays off. Then it gets worse. He took the mistress on the Bahamas honeymoon trip he had planned with his wife. And then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fair to her entire family. That's like a whole public confession.

And spoiler, two years later, karma hits him so hard. He's calling his ex-wife in tears saying about the mistress. What a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together.

We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us.

We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your We're joined once again by Juan David Rojas. He is a columnist at Unheard, as am I, by the way. So that's a fun little unheard reunion here. Juan David Rojas, thank you for joining us from Bogota, where you have been covering the Colombian election, although we just asked you what the vibe is like in Bogota,

and you said, World Cup. Yeah, a lot of excitement about all the games. Everyone watching every single game, so it's exciting. Yeah, I'm sure it is electric down there. Now, Gustavo Petro obviously is on his way out in early August, August 7th. Here's just a little clip of Gustavo Petro from recent days. He's, let's just put this, I'm just going to roll it. Let's roll this.

This is E1. There he is. You can see him looking like, what, he's a rapper, I guess, Ryan, which is oddly appropriate because the man who's going to be replacing him, Abilardo de la Espreyea, has some of of his own music videos that we would be remiss if we didn't also show. Yeah, this is E2. You can see the new incoming Colombian president who defeated Petros would be air in his own music video, looking as Colombian as I think a person can look.

It's fair to say. So Juan David Rojas, what the hell is going on? Petro, obviously, Petro's party obviously loses De La L'Ala Sprio now referred to as the Colombian Buckele, who also has, I think, a pretty interesting milay streak tossed into the Buccele streak. What is going on in Colombia? Yeah, so Colombia just had its presidential runoff like a week ago. And it was the closest election in Colombian history. The difference between both candidates was about 200,000 votes. And Delas Bria narrowly defeated the governing party candidate Ivan Saper, close ally.

of Petro and oh boy yeah where to start with this guy in a way yeah he's kind of a right-wing version of Petro he's really eccentric he's actually they're both from the Columbia's Caribbean coast this guy yeah where to start like he's a mob lawyer he made millions representing like drug dealing right-wing narco-paramilitaries Maduro loyalist businessman Alex Saab who was extradited to the US a month ago in May and former president Albert Oribe. Actually, he represented the leader of the

AUC paramilitaries Salvatore Mancuso who said that Jim and Alardo were childhood friends. He was also extradited to the U.S. and served time abroad. So, yeah, this guy, like, you know, I've compared him. He's clearly taken

influences from three people, Trump, Miele, and Buckele. So with Buckele, it's like his appearance, the tough on crime stuff, you know, crime is a serious problem in Colombia. From Trump, like the fact that he's an outsider businessman, he says as soon as he's sworn in the office, he's going to, you know, put it, he has a raft of executive orders that he's going to put through to, like, deregulate and, like, privatize a bunch of stuff.

But from Millet, I think he's most similar to Milet because just like Milet, before he ran for president, he was, like, an elite libertarian. He's very socially progressive on a lot of issues in favor of abortion. euthanasia adoption for same-sex couples. He was an open atheist. But then, you know, he had to conservatize himself because that only appeals to, like, you know,

a narrow slice of the population. So, like, now he's, like, an ultra-Catholic Colombian patriot. His slogan was firm for the homeland, which is kind of forcible. He's a tri-citizen of Italy, the U.S. and Colombia. And it hasn't lived in Colombia for the past 10 years. So it's pretty sad.

Didn't his wife say something like the best part about this is if we lose, we just go back to Miami? Exactly. Yeah, if they lose, they can go back to their mansions in Florence and Miami. He loves Trump. He said that he donated Maria Bida Salazar's campaign, the Miami representative. And he says he's a registered Republican in the U.S. and voted for Trump. So it's like, wow, this is a lot. I've called him literally a U.S. asset. Right. So how, okay. So how on earth do, if you, if you're, you know, if you're not, you. you're the Colombian left, you lose to this guy, and compare it to the Morena party, compare it to the Mexican left, which is dominant, which has one, you know, huge swaths of the middle

class over to its, over to its side. Claudia Scheinbaum's popularity, you know, stratospheric. Why is she doing so well compared to the Colombian left, which lost to a gangster's attorney from South Florida. Perfect question. It's going to take me a while to get through. So I will say, like, Petro did a lot of things that I think were objectively really good, and they're similar to what Amlo and Shinebomb did. You raised the minimum wage around, like, 40% in real terms. Actually, this year, in nominal terms of minimum wage, is raised 23% the most for a single year

in Columbia's history, and this created a panic from the media, the opposition, that this would spike inflation and create unemployment. None of that happened. And Petra was actually due to leave office as the most popular Colombian president since Wadiyev. With his approval rating, he's close to 50%. Now, admittedly, there's like a low bar, pretty low bar for recent Colombian president. He passed the labor reform, reduced the work week to 42 hours from like 46. Workers also have like more overtime, like before.

Like, would you have cut that so that like on holidays you only got like 70% as opposed to like 100% of overtime? there's an agrarian reformer like restore land lost to people from the armed conflict that were displaced by violence. I interviewed a guy with clips were posted for drop site. This Petro supporter was a former soldier, actually. And he said that his hometown in rural Columbia had really been transformed by Petro's government, which I found really inspiring. So that's the good. What's the bad? Well, we'll start with security. I like to make a difference. They're related. But there's, a difference between like common crime you know just like mug muggings, burglary, self-un theft, stuff like that and like big cities and like organized crime dealing with like these militarized

cartels, insurgent groups, right-wing paramilitaries in the countryside. And so on like the common crime front, Petro like really came at this from like a progressive like criminal justice reform ideal which I think is a little dumb. Like he condemned building prisons because he didn't want to perpetuate mass incarceration. And it's like, dude, you're the president of the land of Pablo Escobar. For the love of God, you need to throw criminals in jail. There was this youth influencer, Wescold, who asked him and de la Spreja, hey, if a, you know, a criminal broke into your house, what would you do?

Petro gave this long philosophical answer that, you know, criminals are victims of society. And, you know, he has a family, like, whatever. And de la Sperrejo was just, like, do with him as he was teafid. So it's like, anyway. Anyway, on organized crime, he had this interesting idea. I supported it at the time, I just think the execution was terrible, total peace, which is, you know, the government would negotiate peace deals or terms of surrender with multiple armed groups at the same time, the ELN, FARC dissidents, offshoots of the AUC,

and there were a lot of problems with this. The follow-through really wasn't there. A lot of these armed groups, like, just kind of took advantage of the gun. government to fortify themselves. And SEPBela actually was the architect of this policy. And unfortunately, on the campaign, like, you know, he was like, I'm the peace candidate. I will never say no to peace, which is fine, but, you know, he never said, like, if he'd really make any changes to the policy, take a harder line with some of these groups that really haven't shown an interest towards peace, like the ELN. And then the other important thing, in my opinion, is

on energy. Petro is what I call a climate. fundamentalists. He thinks that, you know, we have 12 years to save the planet. And so he completely destroyed the state-owned oil company, Eco Petro, which is the number of the largest company, the single largest company in the country with the largest union, too. And I've argued this actually caused like stagflation. In his first few years, there was really high inflation and really low economic growth. You know, it would make sense because this is a huge driver of growth in the country, around half of government revenues come from the oil sector. And Petro just said there will be no more novel oil exploration. He put a bunch of climate academics and like degrowth

types, this super corrupt crony as the head of the Eco Petrov's board. And so this was just a complete disaster. I talked to like one taxi driver who was like, he's destroying the jewel of the republic. And it's like, dude, you're a leftist. you're supposed to defend state companies, not destroy them. And so that's a really important difference with, like, Mexico. You look at, like, what Amlo and Shinebomb have done. Claudia is a climate scientist, and she's actually expanding fracking inside of Mexico

to shore up the country's energy sovereignty. Petro is called that a crime against humanity. But look, like, the data is in. It's been, you know, there's a lot of fears about water, understandably so. But if you do things correctly, contamination of water tends to be. pretty minimal. It's just a lot of like environmental propaganda in my opinion. So another thing of all of this is last thing.

Shane bomb actually and her security minister of Hartford's, they've taken a really aggressive policy against crime. Mexico's incarceration rate has gone up a ton. Let's get to that crime in a second. Let me get to get to that in one minute. So unpack what you said about the energy policy. So what is what was the effect of Mexican energy policy on what middle class and working people in Mexico paid for energy, and what was the effect in Colombia of Petro's energy policies on what people there pay? Because I think that that's what probably matters to people in the end, is what they're seeing kind of flow out of their accounts.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, there were points during Omlo's term where, like, there were Americans going to Mexico to fill up across the board. border because it's cheaper over there. And like Mexico used to import all of its gasoline from the U.S. That's actually gone down a ton, like 50%. Unfortunately, natural gas around the three-fourths of Mexico's natural gas still comes from Texas, and that's a big reason to expand fracking, you know. And Shanebaum says she wants to do that responsibly, which I lot. But in Columbia, on the other hand, you know, gas prices have gone through the roof. And look, I believe in climate change.

I think that an energy transition is important. And I think that's good. It's good that Petro has, you know, invested in, like, solar panels and stuff like that. But it can't come at the expense of workers. And so I would just say that, you know, both sides of the political spectrum, especially in the U.S.,

don't demonize a particular, like, energy source. Don't demonize renewables. I think what, like, the Republicans did with the IRA. It was completely dumb, especially after, like, invading Iran. At the same time, like, don't demonize fossil fuels and, like, try to shut down pilots. We need energy period and I think about this holistically.

So what happened in Colombia like to energy prices? Yeah, that's another thing. Petro, like he restored them towards the end of this term, but he also cut like energy subsidies. So gas prices shot up. He actually said something like, oh, the poor don't drive. So what does this matter? And you know, there's this, there's this thinking that it's like, if you make like driving more expensive, then people will like be forced to like buy electric. vehicles there's some truth to that but you also cause a lot of pain to people so feels like similar to the mistake that mccrone made um in france that that produced a yellow vest protests where they were they kind of led with led with the climate um and told people to kind of suck it up for the per for a good

purpose saving the planet um you know saving you know the place that humanity will you know needs to thrive. But in the short term, I think most people, as the Yellow Vest protest and other protests around the world showed, people don't necessarily believe, I think, that you're actually saving the planet. They think people are just getting richer with the money that you're spending, the extra money that you're spending on energy prices. So is that, to you, is that how significant a distinction between Mexican left-wing success and Colombian left-wing failure, is it to say that under the Mexican left, they drove down, they made things more affordable for people, and Petro, at least in some circumstances, did not.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely correct. It's undeniable. I mean, actually, you look at, like, energy prices overall, for instance, like for homes, and they've been pretty stable in Mexico, which is rather remarkable. Okay, so then you wanted to talk about the crime. difference between kind of Mexico and Columbia. So when I cut you off, go ahead. On security, yeah, Claudia, and she has this superstar. They're calling him Batman. It's funny in Mexico. They're like selling towels with like, oh my God, see how had Fuch's likeness on like these

shirtless muscular bodies that they like sell dolls of him. He's actually talked about as a contender for Mexico's next president. It's extremely competent, probably the best security minister that Mexico's ever had. And I mean, Mexico's homicide rate has gone a ton, but not just that. Like, Mexico's incarceration rate, the country's prison population has gone up a ton.

And to quote a mutual friend of ours who will remain anonymous, the problem is, like, the progressive method, just, it doesn't work. Encirating people if it's of criminals, like, you know, not of minor offenses, but, like, actual criminals is a good thing. And so,

in my opinion, at least. And you actually see there's a progressive opposition party in Mexico. Movimento Suoano, and they criticize the government a lot because they think that, you know, they've gone too hard on crime, if you can believe that. No, I can believe that. So what has been politically, how has that party fared with that criticism? You know, the Mexican opposition, they're really screwed because it's just kind of this octopus that's extremely incoherent. there's there's msace the movement of which i just mentioned there's the right wing pan and there's like the centrist uh prii and so like the bond wants to go even harder on crime mc wants to go softer on

crime the bris is just corrupt and so they don't really know what to do they're really in a in a difficult bind and that also helps the the governing coalition a lot all right all right juan david Rojas, always a pleasure to have you. We'll put the piece in our newsletter, which you should sign up for at breakingpoints.com. I'm talking to you directly, but also

to the audience watching, breaking points.com, get the free newsletter. It's great. Thanks, Juan David. We'll take any... Last thing I'll say really quick. This guy, he's certain to fail. Similar, like, with Groupthink on, like, energy on the left and stuff like that, with progressives. He's completely beholden to, like, market

fundamentalism. He wants to, like, privatize most state companies, who knows maybe even Eco Petrol, and like fire 40% of state employees. This is going to lead a mass protest in a few months. How do I know this? Because this is exactly what's happening in all the other right-wing government countries. And in the meantime, U.S. taxpayer money will be bailing him out, and U.S. oligarchs will capitalize on the privatization of those assets. So thanks, Wanda Veed, for telling us what both is happening and what will happen. Exactly. All right. Talk to you later.

An IHart Radio experience. Weekend gold tickets to Ilsoniq. One, two, three. In Montreal with Dom Dalla, Chris Lakin Friends, Woolly, Deadmouse, Above and Beyond, sub-focus, and more. With flights from Porter Airlines, three nights at Residence Inn downtown Montreal,

and $1,000 cash. Enter for your chance to win at iHeartreadio.ca. Ilsonique in Montreal, every day you enter is another chance to win. My husband is currently on a vacation with his mistress and I'm confronting them. Tell me, Sophia, how did she even catch them? One Amazon shopping receipt. He accidentally sent her a photo of the kid's Christmas gifts with a delivery to another woman at the bottom.

He exposed himself? That's a rookie move. Couples massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie he them owed her for. So she spent four weeks gathering evidence and taped a 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew. out. In his luggage, she came to play. And the second he landed, he blocked her. So she called the hotel room directly and got the mistress on the phone. Ooh, she got the mistress live on the phone? That is a bold move. Let's see if it pays off. Then it gets worse. He took the mistress on the Bahamas honeymoon trip he had planned with his wife. And then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fair to her entire family. That's like a whole public confession. And spoiler, two years later, karma hits him so hard. He's calling his ex-execkel. He's calling his ex-exam.

wife in tears saying about the mistress, what a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer and that was more difficult. There's a lot of

people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's giving me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really know how to describe this segment that we're about to do other than that. It might change the way that you think about a lot of different things. Yeah. Let's go with that. This is peak wrangrim. If you look at the bottom bar today, it says M.K. Ultra Hannibal

brains. All right, so joining us is Shailen Bot from Georgetown Medical School. I did two years in medical school since I even taken a couple years off because of the discovery that you made as a medical student, which was just now published in, what is it, the journal of cellular and molecular neurobiology. And Ryan reads every day. I read, I'm thumbing through this. I'm like, this is fascinating stuff. But it's, shaking up our understanding, I think, of the way that the brain interacts with the rest of the body. And has some interesting, raises interesting questions about Western versus Eastern medicine even, that you may have, that some of the things that you've discovered may actually suggest that

those Easterners might have been on to something more than, no other than we thought. And then they've been doing it for thousands of years, not because they're crazy. Like, maybe we're the crazy ones. So, first of all, welcome. I know you've been watching the show for a long time. And we've been communicating for a couple years now, because when you first discovered this, you reached out. You're like, you're not complete what I've found.

And I'm like, doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but you've successfully explained it, I think, over the years. So it's a pleasure to have you on here. Thanks for having me on, yeah. Yeah, so you brought some props too. Yeah, I have. So what I found fascinating was that, For the most part, science and medicine kind of believes they've discovered everything about the body that there is to be discovered.

Yeah. You found out that that's not exactly true. Yeah. So the thing is, is that a lot of what Western medicine is built on is, at least in the anatomical sense, it's what a lot of anatomists did, like, way back in the day, right? Like, especially like in Europe, you know, where they just had the cadavers out onto tables and they just dissected. And so for the longest time, we just kind of thought, like, we know what's in there. You know, people have gone through everything. You would think so.

Yeah, you would think. You would think. I don't know. I just, I have a tendency for like hyper curiosity, I guess someone would call it. And so when I was in, I guess, my first two years in medical school, I was a TA in the anatomy lab, right? So there's a bunch of cadavers, but we use the term like donors just to, you know, be respectful. There's a bunch of donors, like, already in the anatomy lab. And so something that was really interesting, one of my buddies actually showed me a paper.

And it was a discovery, I think, I want to say, 2024, January, 2024. And it was in rats. They found this drain that sits, like, right behind your nose. And it drains cerebrospinal fluid, which is just the juice that your brain sits in. But it doesn't drain it into blood, which is, like, like the, you know, the notion that medicine is kind of built on. It actually drains into these other vessels that are called lymphatic vessels. And so the- So they thought it drained into blood. Yeah, right. But what it was found in the rats is that it was draining into lymphatic vessels.

Exactly right. So the- That's significant. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so the idea is, is like, oh, like, medicine's built on this idea that there's no, quote-unquote, lymphatic connection to the central nervous system. And so, yeah, that's where it kind of all started from that paper. I was like, I'm really interested in this. My friend was like, but you can't find it. And like, you know, we just like went on from there. So this gets into the autoimmune world. So what's the lymphatic, like describe for us. What's the lymphatic system? And what is, what is its relevance to how our body functions? Yeah, the long story short, I would say is that it's just like immunology, right? Like, it's where your immune cells travel, right? Like, I would say, like,

If your immune cells had some kind of freeway to hop on to get from one point to your body. Literally osmosis Jones. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They would, yeah, they would use the lymphatic system. And, you know, the lymphatic system has a bunch of connections to a bunch of, you know, different organs, like your spleen, your gut. That's probably a significant one, like gut associated lymphatic tissue, gulp for short. You know, the potential idea of like immune connections from your gut to your brain, the gut, the gut brain axis, you know, all these like kind of emerging ideas might be related to this.

And so your buddy says, okay, we found in rats that the brain is draining to the lymphatic system. Yeah. I bet you can't find it in humans. Sure, yeah. And so. You took that challenge. You took that challenge. So like how did you go about looking?

Yeah. So it started off. You know, there was a lot of like trial and error kind of ways to look for exactly. like, you know, is this connection real or not? There's a lot of, like, research, like, background research you have to do online to see, like, all right, what did these anatomists do back in the day? Like, what kind of methods, you know, can we do? Basically, the long story short is, like, after a bunch of trial and error and, like, a lot of

help from peers and a lot of help from, like, mentors, you know, we developed this, like, dissection protocol that really just boils down to like dye and hydrogen peroxide. You know, there was this idea that like, oh, you can't inject stuff into formal and fixed donors because, or I'm sorry, you can't inject stuff into lymphatics in formal and fixed donors because the vessels are like super tight. But we just used hydrogen peroxide because it like bubbles, right? So it just like opens up the vessel a little bit and let the dye kind of just like travel up to the brain and see like, all right, where is it going?

Like, you held, like, the body's, like, upside down a little bit? Like, there was, like, a block underneath the, um, the thorax, right? And so, like, once that injections in, the heads, like, kind of back a little bit. And so the die just, like, travels back. Um, you just, you know, leave the die overnight kind of thing. And it's just, like, gravity does all the work, if that makes sense. Obviously question, but why hadn't anyone else probed that potential connection before? And what response did you get as you said, well, we're going to look into this?

Yeah, that's a really good question. So I think it's two, there's two kind of aspects to this, right? One, these vessels are like super tiny, right? Like, if you were to operate on them in real life, like literally that is called microsurgery, right? And I just, I don't know, I like dissecting small stuff, right? And so. Who among us. Right. So, yeah. So I think that's the first thing, right? Is that like when you're like looking at stuff in a human body, right? There's really small vessels and there's stuff that you can miss, right, that's surrounded in this, like, adhesive tissue called fascia. That's like a word that's thrown around a lot, I feel like.

What was the second part of your question? Well, just what response did you get, as you said, I'm looking into this? Because what's interesting to me about that is there was the sense that we knew. It wasn't we don't know what we don't know. It was that we kind of thought we knew how something worked. And you said, well, actually, maybe it's different. Yeah. So I think, yeah, there's two different responses, right?

I think people who are interested in this area, they found. it like extremely interesting, right? They were like, oh, wow, this is, this is like really interesting stuff. And like, I don't know, it's kind of like an emerging space, right? So people are like excited about it. So that was on one hand. On I guess like another hand, probably a lot of like people being like, I don't know, maybe this med student's getting a little too excited, which is like reasonable. I am pretty excited about this stuff. Right. I'm not going to deny that. But, you know, there's always, and this is something I'm still learning. Like, right? like to not like overclaim anything and stuff like that and so like i don't know at someone at my age

when you're like oh i think i found something it's like is this kid okay like we don't like we don't really know and yeah so yeah so you've got some you got some props here for us yeah i do so originally people believed that the blood drained into the it's the real fluid into the blood into blood vessels yeah just which has particular implications for how we will treat all sorts of brain-related and immuno-related disorders. Now you find out that's not true that it drains into the lymphatic system. Is there a way to demonstrate this

with what you brought in? And then what does it tell us about medicine and the body? What possibilities this open up for people with autoimmune disorders? Sure. Yeah. Or Alzheimer's or anything else.

Sure, yeah. Yeah, so the first thing is that, you know, this entire kind of, I don't know, bit, it's still like, like, CSF still drains into blood, right? This idea that I introduced called the Cerebro-Lymph hypothesis, right? It has this idea of like CSF not only drains into blood, but it's blood and lymph, and there's probably different functionalities, right? Like the drain, like one set of pipes is for one thing and one set of pipes is for another thing, right? So, yeah, I introduced a hypothesis in the discussion of this paper, and it's called

the cerebral lymph hypothesis, and it's just essentially like the anatomical network of where CSF is produced all the way to draining out into the body. That's the spinal fluid. CSF is the cerebral. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So go ahead, say that, say it again. So you just, so what's the hypothesis? So the hypothesis is called the cerebral lymph hypothesis. It's basically an anatomical framework for where CSF is produced, right? So it's actually this thing right here, right? So this is the ventricular system. It's produced in the corroid plexus, which is this like little red streak, right? So there's right here, and then there's like right here, and then right here and then down here, right? So CSF is produced there. And this is essentially

like the deepest part of your brain, right? And this looks like a structure, but realistically, it's not like, like, it's walls of a pocket of juice, right? So it's produced here, and then it exits kind of down here where we call the median and lateral apertures. That's just a fancy term for holes, right? So from the holes, it goes into the space that's like around here, right? And that's called the subarachnoid space. And where does that map onto the floor? Yeah, so this is actually where it drains after the subarachnoid space. Okay, so flip that around. on the head towards the bottom. Yeah, okay.

So that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. I guess the significance is that before it, before the CSF exits here and then, you know, drains into here, it goes through this system that was recently discovered by Dr. Mike in Netigard. And this is, this system is called the glymphatic system. And the glymphatic system essentially just cleans your brain. It, like, runs through your brain and cleans the entire thing.

and then this is what drains it. Okay. Right. In the like the pictures that I sent, right, like the pictures of the fountain, right? Oh yeah, let's put that up. Yeah. So this is just cup one, right? And then it exits into cup two, right, which is the subaractment space and lymphatic system.

And then the meningial lymphatic vessels, which is also a recent discovery, that's this prop, right? This prop that is just like an open head. And then the stuff that we found in anatomy lab is the fourth one, the nerve-adjacent lymphatic vessels exiting phenomena. We didn't show any proof of like CSF exiting, right? So this is literally just a hypothesis. But from there, you have your peripheral lymphatic circulation, which is like all that stuff I was talking about earlier, like your gut-associated lymphatic tissue and whatnot. So, yeah. And to Ryan's question about how this might be.

open up frontiers for autoimmune treatment. What is that going forward? What were we doing that might change, whether it's, you were talking about Alzheimer's as well. Yeah, Alzheimer's is probably the biggest one. So Alzheimer's is built on the amyloid and like tau hypotheses, right? And these have been hypotheses for decades. And a lot of like the infrastructure, you know, for research is kind of built around these things. The thing about amyloid and tau is that they describe the protein buildup that occurs in your brain, right? So they just describe like this protein that just like appears in your brain and then causes the neurodegeneration. That's their theory. Yeah, exactly, right. So a lot of money has been, you know, going into that. A lot of money has been like poured into that. The thing

about, I guess, those hypotheses is that they explain the proteins really well, right? And it's like there's been a lot of really great work that's been done about Alzheimer's. The issue is is that there's, there's not a lot being talked about the flow of those proteins and like the drainage of those proteins. And the idea of introducing something like cerebral lymph is if we look at both the protein buildup and the drainage system, we might be able to get somewhere closer to Alzheimer's, like something crazy like plastic surgeons doing surgeries for Alzheimer's in the neck. Why is that just because it's traveling in different pathways? Or not draining effectively?

Exactly, right. And it's just like improving that kind of like connection. Like that's the dream essentially, you know, is that for something like that to be a possibility one day. So how does something like acupuncture fit into this? Yeah, that's a really good question. So acupuncture is really interesting. And I think it's kind of emerging too. A lot of the stuff we do is like we look at like traditional practices and then we just like validate them.

even though people knew about them, you know, for a long time. But there's two really interesting peer review studies, one about like acupuncture helping long COVID patients, and long COVID has a lot to do with like, you know, brain stuff, right? And it also, coincidentally, it helps with, like, things like lymphedema and, like, the brain fog that comes up, like, during lymphedema. So there you have, like, two completely different things, right? Like long COVID and lymphedema, right, right?

which is just like your limbs like swelling up because you're not getting good drainage. But it kind of goes back into the hypothesis of like, all right, maybe there's just like a buildup in this like fountain. You know, I don't know if the Zaymi sounds. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, Eastern medicine is always talking about the body's flow. Yeah, exactly. Right. And you're like, you're like actually quite literally this stuff needs to flow.

And if it's not flowing, that could be producing the brain fog. and and also like Alzheimer's is like an extreme form of brain fog yeah it's like protein just building up right it's like the sink the sink is probably just clogged so yeah so then the idea would that be so acupuncture and others like somehow it works to like help unclog the sink but then western medicine could come in and say well here's how we're going to brute force clean this sink like so what What are the potential therapies that could come around? I think realistically, it's like, you know, sometimes in life when, you know, people have already gone to a certain point where it's like, all right, this protein's like building up,

right? These like Western interventions are really important, right? It's really important to make sure that like, all right, like we got to fix your drainage. We got to fix whatever's going on, right? But there's something to be said about maybe a lot of these practices may be preventative, right? Like we talk about things like exercise and like good diet, right? Like obviously that's good for you, right? But maybe the reason that they're good for you is something about improving flow.

You know, maybe. That's just a hypothesis. Like if you keep the body in motion and, you know, you keep your nutrition. It's like if you if you, let's say for example, if you exercise, you're literally getting. getting your blood pumping, right? And then, you know, if we put that fountain back on the board. It's like the reflecting pool, right? Like you need to keep the water circulating to prevent the algae bloom. Throw that one back on that little fountain. This is the algae bloom. Yeah, it's like, if you're exercising, right, then like that's good for cup too, right? Because you're getting blood flow

into your brain. So it's like your heart rate's going up, you're clean more of your your perivascular space, which is just like the space that's right next to the blood vessels, right? The whole The whole point of it is like saying like, okay, well, exercise improves flow. Meditation, for example, increases flow in cup two perhaps, right? How does meditation do that? Yeah, it's a really good question. I don't know, except I saw a paper on it. Okay.

That's really good way. But it does. Yeah. Yeah. Mindfulness, meditation, it does increase, it does increase like the flow of like cup two from from my understanding. I could be wrong on that. But yeah. But yeah, it's just to say.

So you get things moving. Yeah, you just get things more. A lot of people will say that they just feel better if they have worked out that day. And some people say, well, it's the endorphins or whatever. But what you're saying is it could also just be the general, your body's just getting cleaned, cleaning itself out. Yeah, it's like this. Less cluttered. Right.

This flow mechanism is literally like cleaning your brain out, right? And so a lot of what, you know, medicine has been built on. And it's, don't get me wrong. It's incredible work, right? But it's been very neuron only, right? Like neuronal focused, right? And I guess what all of this... What do you mean by that?

Like, I guess what I mean is like when you picture a neuron, you picture like the electrical currents of a cell, right? Like you picture, you just picture like the electricity, right? All these like networks, these neural networks. But none of this is really neural networks. This is like the structure. Yeah. Like this is all just like flow, right?

And it's flow that has... This is, I think, for the first time giving flow like way, more defined structure than it has in the past. Instead of just saying, oh, there's a pool of CSF, right, that your brain just sits in. This is more saying, like, this is a flow that starts here and ends here, and I don't know, let's see if it's right or not. Does this raise any questions about consciousness

or any new frontiers in that question of what it means to be consciously thinking? So consciousness is really interesting because a lot of what consciousness science is is built on neural networks, right? And, like, it makes sense. I actually published a theory a couple months. ago, right? It's like, it's such a, it's like a long name that I kind of laugh at now, but it's called a glymphosomotor field theory, GVF for short, right? I just say GVF. I look back at that. I don't know if I wish, I, I don't know if I wish, I had named it

that. But GVF theory is essentially just a theory that you can, like people can read it if they're interested in it, right? But the, the long story short on that theory is that when you have fluid flowing that has ions in it, right? Those ions will make a current, right? And this is just like outside of you know, outside of brain stuff, right? So all

this is really saying, all the GVF theory is really saying is that if you're having ions in CSF, right? And that CSF has a structured flow then maybe, maybe there's an electromagnetic field, right? And maybe

those features, fields affect the neurons maybe right it's just like a theory slash hypothesis right like who knows and that could be the production of consciousness potentially it could affect it right it could scaffold it could scaffold those like neural networks right because they sit right next to each other right like all these like drainage systems like they all sit very like close to each other and that's what EMF is measuring I I don't know okay yeah I'm not sure yeah yeah so how does that interact with artificial intelligence

Yeah, that's a really good question. So this is something, I could go on, you know, hours about this, right? Artificial intelligence is neural networks. That's all like artificial intelligence is, right? It's neural networks that are learning and building on themselves, right? There's ongoing debates about whether or not AI is conscious or not. Like we have no idea, and some people say that AI is conscious, and then other people say AI isn't conscious.

This framework, I think, if validated, right, would be a significant step in saying that AI probably will not be conscious, right? Because consciousness is more than just neural networks, right? Like, there's an inherent flow that is present in our bodies, right? That not just, you know, humans have, like all of biology has, right? that AI can't really replicate, you know? So I would say that's probably the biggest thing. Why couldn't it replicate it with some type of fluid that has electro-magnetic?

We put rock into the air and then synthesis. Some ionic intervention. That's a question for people much smarter than me. I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, at the end of the day, it would still be, I suppose, a synthetic version. if you tried, if you, like, tried to recreate a human network. It's a good conundrum, though.

Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting, I see what you're saying. Like, it is, it's a fascinating, like, what if? Yeah. But, I don't know. It's also kind of scary. So, like, I don't know. Maybe, maybe we shouldn't talk about it.

And so, um, so what are the, have you talked to anybody yet who is exploring how to take the, this discovery and turn it towards therapies for? anything long COVID Alzheimer's yeah like autism anything sure like science is like science is a relatively slow institution you know and I don't know the reality of my situation is like now that this is kind of all published and wrapped up I have to like be a medical student you know like I have to study for boards and like do things like that right do you start in the in the fall again with your third year March starting March okay Sorry, March. So, like, you know, realistically, what I'm hoping is that this, now that this paper's published

and people can, you know, see the hypothesis, the, like, scientific community can, you know, see, like, whether or not this is, like, a reasonable thing. And then go from there. I think ideally, though, in the perfect kind of world, you know, scientists look at this, and clinicians and physicians look at this. and kind of a new emerging space, like, comes out of it. That would be, like, you know, the dream. Seems like it might.

Have you heard from Huberman or any of the other popularizers of this kind of thing? No. No, no. Maybe he watches. Yeah. We'll see. He's watching. We'll connect him.

We really appreciate you coming in here. And this all started because you were emailing back and forth with Brian. Yeah, right. I appreciate you guys having me. And, like, just being able to share all this. Because I think at the end of the day, the stuff is, it's really important, I think, but it's also kind of slow, you know? And so it's like one of those things where, like, to have, you know, people out there care about this, it means a lot. I think it also brings people to trust, like, medicine and science when you're here explaining to us how you arrive from point to point B.

Like, it's super interesting. And I think it gives people an insight into the process. That means a lot. Yeah, that really means a lot. Thank you. Well, thanks for coming. Yeah, well, thanks for coming by. Yeah.

All right. And we'll, in our newsletter, which everybody should sign up for it, breakingpoints.com, we'll put links to the paper, but also the more digestible for a lay audience, what is a neurodaily, I think it's called. Yeah, daily neuron. The daily neuron will put that article. Regular. Yes, reading it, reading it every day, obviously. And we'll, so, yeah, fascinating stuff. And we're going to, we'll keep up with this because I hope that, hope that some money starts flowing to this. to this area because there seems to be it seems to be ripe for you know serious breakthroughs i i you know that's a dream yeah i'm getting old so hurry up yeah well thank you for joining us we appreciate it of course yeah thank you for having me all right that does it for us on today's edition of breaking point ryan it was uh of always a pleasure we we went on a journey we did indeed all right well uh crystal and Saga back tomorrow or are you in? Crystal and Emily.

Tomorrow, what do you guys call that? It's the gardening show. The gardening show. Going back for the gardening show. I guess I'll see you guys on Friday. Sounds good. See you guys then. My husband is at a spa resort with his mistress right now,

and I'm calling the hotel to confront them both. Wait a minute, Dakota. She's calling the hotel while they're checked in together. Yeah, that's right, Sophia. And it gets worse. It's Vacate to Vacation Week on the Okay Storytime podcast, where she caught him buying gifts. on Amazon and then tape the 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out.

So she planted evidence before he even took off? And spoiler, Sophia, two years later, karma hits so hard, he's calling his ex-wife in tears, saying about his mistress, what a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start. your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotbe.

If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and Listen Now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby is presented by CVS. My first guest is Territ Holtin, Shakita, Luke and Yerrin. Surprises? Many surprises. Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the group check comes to life. What on?

You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. It's lemonade. This is Sweet 305. Here, oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.