Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 7/24/25: Trump Exposed In Epstein Files, Judge Denies Release Of Epstein Docs, Nelk Boys Scripted Bibi Interview

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

Krystal and Saagar discuss Trump is in the Epstein files, judge denies Epstein files release, Nelk boys admit Bibi interview scripted.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Good morning, everybody. Happy Thursday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed we do. Many things to talk about this morning, including a new Wall Street Journal bombshell.

Trump is officially in the Epstein files and was informed of such, so we will break all of that down. Also have a little bit of polling to dig through on all of those matters as well. Some interesting new note boys fall out too. We are learning, of course, the event that they were actually given a list of interview questions

before their big Netanyahu interview. They're sort of still spiraling there. So interesting to dig into that as a media story. I think a significant one actually. Some very dire news coming out of Israel. We now have a whistleblower coming forward from that so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation talking about the unbelievable and horrifying force being used against Palestinians in the context of them trying to obtain aid. We also have another significant media story here involving Candice Owens, who is now being

sued by the first family of France. Candice did a long piece alleging that Brigitte Macron, the first lady of France, is actually a man, was born a man, et cetera. And so they are suing her over those and other claims. We also have significant economic news. Home prices are continuing to go up, home sales continuing to go down. In fact, a significant number of deals

that were originally struck in the housing market fell apart. Last month, record high number of those deals falling apart. So still really dire there. This comes also as Trump has announced a new quote unquote trade deal with Japan. So we'll dig into all of that. And we're gonna have a guest on to break down if there is any there there

with this big Russiagate document drop. Obviously being used as an attempt to distract from Epstein. It's not working very well, but we did wanna sift through and see if there's anything we should know. Obama gate as an original Obama gator myself. Yeah, it's been difficult. We're heading to go back and reread all the files, etc. But yes, we will allow Isaac. Isaac has done a fantastic job here from Tangle.

He's actually read through everything, covered the stuff for years, and so we're going to outsource some of our knowledge over there. Thank you, Isaac. Didn't have it in us to go deep dive into this. I just personally did not have this in me right now. Alright, let's go. Oh, before we get to that, thank you to everybody who has been signing up for our premium membership, breakingpoints.com. If you would like, obviously we have all the benefits, but we are really supporting the show

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just go ahead and send a link to one of your friends. It's the best possible thing that you could do for us to help spread the word. So with that, let's go ahead and start here with the Epstein story. This is again a very remarkable, very interesting leak coming to the Wall Street Journal. Let's put it up there on the screen.

Quote, the Justice Department told Donald Trump in May that his name is among many in the Epstein files. There's a lot here, and I'm going to go through both the exact details of the story, but also the timeline, because the timeline matters a lot. Quote, when the Justice Department reviewed the Attorney General Pam Bondi called a truckload of documents, they discovered that Donald Trump's name appeared multiple times. In May, her and her deputy informed the president

at a meeting in White House that his name was in the Epstein files. Quote, many other high profile figures were also named, Trump was told, being mentioned in the records, is not a sign of wrongdoing. That's obviously correct, and that's something that we've talked about here for quite a long time. They said the official said it was part

of a routine briefing, covered a number of topics, and that Trump's appearance in the document was not even the focus. They told the president at the meeting that the files contained what officials felt was quote unverified hearsay about many people, including Trump, who had socialized with Epstein in the past. Some of the officials said one of the officials familiar said that they contain hundreds of other names. They also said that Trump told, they also told Trump the senior Justice Department officials

didn't plan to release any more documents related to the investigation of the convicted sex offender because the material contained child pornography and victims' personal information. Trump said at the meeting, he would defer to the Justice Department. Now, I want to sit on that for a second.

So, first and foremost is this. Number one is that obviously they told Trump his name was in the Epstein files. But the thing is, is that within the context, it makes it even more bizarre about Trump's decision not to release it. And really why this is a PR crisis of his own making now at this point. If he had released it with his name and hundreds of other names, there would be quite literally

hundreds of stories to be able to go into this, right? And we could all diagnose and we could take a look at all of these different connections. By doing the cover-up and also claiming that you were going to release everything, you now make it so that the singular focus is on you, the president, for the person here, and actually make it more likely,

in my mind and many people's minds, who are analysts here, like, I don't know, man, maybe there is something a hell of a lot more, which is causing all these journalists, you know, the Epstein birthday book, all of these old clips, we're gonna play some here in a little bit just to show people some of the past scrutiny

on Epstein and Trump's own relationship. This is all because of your own actions. Second is, Crystal, remember, this meeting was in May. We did not get the Epstein memo until almost a month later, ahead of the visit of the Israeli Prime Minister. So it seems they made the decision some one month earlier, basically around the time Cash Patel and others were going around on podcasts, kind of laying the groundwork for this. But what happened in that one month period? They said they weren't going to release anything and then a month later they come out and kinda say it.

So the timing of it is very suspect. Remember, also in that interim month, they still were claiming that they were doing an investigation. So it basically makes the government look like a whole bunch of liars. It obviously makes Trump himself look dramatically more implicated in a cover-up.

Probably makes him now, at this point, more intransigent to not release the files, which makes him look even more guilty. And so it's just a spiraling thing where, again, the simplest answer is one, which would probably be to his own benefit and to everybody else, just release everything that's in there.

That's all you gotta do, man. That's what you said you were gonna do. It depends what's in there. But that's my point. Now they're making it sketchy. Yeah, but maybe sketchy. You're assuming that what's in there is just, oh, he was at his wedding,

and he sent him a birthday card or whatever. We don't know that. I agree. I mean, the way Trump is acting would indicate that there may be some much worse things. That is Occam's razor at this point, just based on the way that he's acting. But I mean, this story is,

it is probably the least surprising story that we've seen thus far. Totally. Because and by the way, Elon apparently totally vindicated at this point. When Elon first said that Trump is in the Epstein files, what do we say? We said, of course, Trump is in the Epstein files. Yes. They were very close friends for a lot of years.

There is zero doubt that Trump is in the Epstein files. Question mark of what that means and what the implications are and what, you know, all of that. But there was never any doubt. We know he flew on Epstein's plane at least seven times. So it should be no surprise to anyone that he is quote unquote in the Epstein files, whatever, you know, that really means.

The question is, what, you know, what are the specifics here and why are you acting so incredibly bizarrely? That's really what it comes down to. And you're right that this has opened up a can of worms of people going back because there was a lot of memory-holing. There was a lot of denial on the right

about just how close they were and how long the association lasted and all of those sorts of things. And so now, let's go ahead and play. This was Jeffrey Epstein when he was being deposed, got asked specifically about his relationship with Donald Trump and about whether or not they had ever been together

in the presence of underage girls. Let's go ahead and take a listen to how he spun that. Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump? What do you mean by personal relationships? Have you socialized with him? Yes sir. Yes?

Yes sir. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18? of 18. Though I'd like to answer that question, at least today, I'm going to have to assert my fifth, sixth, and 14th amendment right, sir. That's it there to the Midas Touch Network and sleuthing all kinds of stuff up over there. Well, listen to me. As you said, it's been out there. I don't deny it either.

I mean, my assumption, perhaps naively, was, yeah, look, he's one of the most scrutinized public figures in the world at this point. Yeah, they went to each other's weddings, et cetera. I'm not saying I believe Trump on his face, but I was like, I think we kind of know. Yeah, they were obviously friends. They had all these sketchy personal connections in certain ways. But at this point, considering both his rhetoric and the rhetoric of his administration, I was like, yeah, they'll probably release it. I mean, again, I could be totally wrong, and perhaps they are, but at this point,

his behavior is such that it is really vindicating a lot of what you're saying, and that's why I actually think at this point, you really do have no choice but to release it, in my opinion. And also, just because of the way that the political winds continue to shift, both in Washington, remember, they literally had to shut down the House of Representatives to stop a vote,

and even with that, I mean, I gotta give to give some of the Republicans some credit here because, you know, just yesterday was the House Oversight Committee. Multiple Republicans broke with the administration. They voted 8-2 to subpoena Galen Maxwell, who will have some testimony before them. There are actually people who are there who are like, no, we're not stopping. This is going to happen. The reason they had to shut down the House was because there were enough Republicans who were willing to join the Democrats

to say, no, screw it. We're going forward. Well, let's pause on Ghislaine for a second because I know Ryan and Emily covered this, but the administration is talking to her. I mean, it's very, very possible. She's obviously working to try to get a deal, try to get a pardon.

And I think that's very possibly the direction that we go in, where she effectively, in exchange for quote unquote exonerating Trump is let out of her, has her prison sentence commuted or gets some sort of a deal. So, you know, that's possible as well. And she has an appeal up to the Supreme Court right now that right now the government is taking the position of no,

you know, she needs to stay in prison. And that previous sweetheart deal that was struck with Epstein that said none of your co-conspirators could be charged either. That doesn't apply here for this various, various technical reasons. So I think that is possible as well. I mean, that's the thing.

It's like, regardless of whatever's in the files, the way they played this is so incredibly stupid. It's like the worst possible way you could do. Because these people are obviously not above line. We're about to show you Trump coming out and being like, oh, of course this, you didn't tell me that I was in the Epstein files. So they could have released some subset,

this ploy that they're doing now with the, oh, let's release the grand jury testimony, which the courts are already saying, no, we're not gonna do that because there's no, we're basically not allowed to. They could have done that ploy previously to make it look like they're trying for transparency, but gosh darn it, the court system

is just standing their way or something, or just run out the clock as you and I, you know, fully expected them to do. And instead, you have made it look like you are so guilty, and maybe you are, and drawn so much attention and scrutiny that now everybody is going back through every picture, every video, every deposition, everything that has ever connected you to Jeffrey Epstein

and to that world and looking at it through a totally different lens at this point. Right, and that's actually another thing which I think is important to align with the Ghislaine stuff. So Ghislaine is actually meeting with the Justice Department today. But the problem is, at this point, you've poisoned the well, right?

For any substantive, I mean, at the end of the, this is part of what does, to me again, point to a cover-up. Ghislaine Maxwell's attorneys and the government say, we never asked her if she ever had any third, what? You never asked her? In 2009, in 2020, you never asked her. And now you're asking her at a time

when she's directly asking for a pardon from Donald Trump. What, she's stupid? She can't look at the news and say, hey, I need to know what I said? If they had released the files and then come to Ghislaine. Also, by the way, at this point, I mean, Ghislaine Maxwell, just on the merits of what she's been convicted of, it's heinous.

She should never be allowed a pardon or any of this. I'm talking about just her crimes with relation to Jeffrey Epstein. And so let's just leave it at that and say, all right, Galaine, maybe we can talk sentence reduction and all of this, but you have to be able to give us prosecutable, verifiable evidence. I think it's called like a rule 35 or something like that

where a judge can take into consideration your cooperation with the government, but it has to like glean to actually something. Whereas now they've poisoned the wealth through their cover-up actions. And now, if she does come out and say, oh Trump, and she was never an intelligence asset, or none of this, I'm like, yeah, come on, man.

I mean, this is just as sketchy as the non-prosecution agreement. Right, you really couldn't believe anything she says at this point, because who are you leaving, I mean, you know, she is not going to implicate Trump, regardless of however much they're there. Glaine's had years to talk. There is, because she wants to they're there. Glaine's had years to talk. There is because she wants to deal with him. Glaine has had a year.

She even gave interviews from her jail cell, right? It's not like she couldn't say something if she didn't want to. She's keeping it all in. And look, she was at the Clinton wedding. She knew Donald Trump. She met Elon, her father literally a Mossad asset. I could go on forever in terms of this woman's background. It's nuts, all right? I mean, Laurene Powell Jobs, like, she's got all kinds

of stuff on all kinds of people, regardless of, by the way, whether they're implicated in sex trafficking or not, just her mere association, as we saw with Elon, Laurene Powell Jobs, it's a problem, no? It's a problem. And here we have, with Donald Trump, again, like, his just instinct to just, you know, basically just come out and lie

about a lot of the information here. He was asked repeatedly, did Pam Bondi ever tell you your name was in the Epstein files? And he said no, let's take a listen. On the DOJ and FBI review. On what subject? Epstein, on Epstein, of the review of the files. Attorney General Pam Bondi.

A very quick briefing. Did she tell you, what did she tell you about the review? And specifically, did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the file? No, no, she's given us just a very quick briefing and in terms of the credibility of the different things that they've seen. And I would say that, you know, these files were made up by Comey, they were made up by Obama, they were made up by the Biden, you know, and we went through years of that with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. So yeah, he literally said, no, she did not tell me that I was in the Epstein files.

Another person who a lot of people have been looking to here is Mark Epstein, the brother, and he directly talked about some of the contradictions from the president's claims saying he'd never been in his office. And he said, no, that's just absolutely not true. Let's take a listen to that. And the White House, their response to us, Mark, they were categorical. They said, quote,

the president was never in Epstein's office. Is that true? That's just another blatant lie because he was there. People that worked for Jeffrey in his office, you can find them, they can testify that they saw Trump and Jeffrey's office on numerous occasions. So for him to say he wasn't there, all I can say is that's just another lie. So you can say, you said that's just another lie. I mean, look, Mark Epstein, I understand he's got his own personal agenda and everybody should keep that in mind.

But a lot of the stuff that Mark has said has actually turned out to be true. Remember, it's Mark also who has really driven the train of my brother did not commit suicide. By the way, if anybody wants, they should go and watch the interview that Ryan and Emily did yesterday with a former inmate at the MCC.

I mean, this guy, the case that he lays out about the cameras and the way that everything works there, it's just, again, it's just not credible. I mean, I knew this guy, the case that he lays out about the cameras and the way that everything works there, it's just, again, it's just not credible. I mean I knew that and I'd heard from other people, but to hear from such an intelligent and articulate person who is also literally an inmate in this facility with deep association knowledge of a lot of these cameras

and himself as a technology expert, you know, you could take it for, you could take it with whatever grain of salt I guess that you want. I don't think he has a particular agenda that he's pushing. He's just like, listen, I was there, this is how it all worked, and I'm telling you the government story,

doesn't make any sense whatsoever at all. That fits with the original OIG investigation, and now all this fake footage that's been put out by Pam Bondi. So in the very least, with Mark Epstein, a lot of what he has said has turned out at the very least to be correct. Now, don't forget, he's also trying to whitewash some of his brother's crimes and his record

So let's put that out there But broadly I mean what the Trump administration and again in all their actions and this will get to the kind of the Russia gate Obamagate stuff and even the MLK files is it's pretty clear They're desperate to release or to try and distract at the very least a lot of their base from what's happening. And yet, the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, she delivered this long presentation yesterday about Obamagate and referring Obama to criminal prosecution, et cetera. As we said, we'll get to that at the latter end of the show because we have a guest on who's going to break it all down for us.

But she's asked here directly about Jeffrey Epstein and the intelligence connections. Let's take a listen. I haven't seen any evidence or information that reflects that. If anything comes before me that changes that in any way, support the president's statement loud and clear. If any credible evidence comes forward, he wants the American people to see it. They always say, I haven't seen it. If anything comes forward, I'll let you know.

Or we'll look into it. Or it's like, come on. Again, it's just so preposterous. And it just shows us that either they don't want to know or they do know and they're lying to us. I'm not really sure which one is worse. I guess theoretically plausible deniability, a tale as old as time right here in Washington. But you put all this stuff together. Visit BenMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly.

If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connx Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BenMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

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Nobody tells you anything. Listen to Shock Incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also with the Wall Street, I should know by the way, multiple other outlets reported it. And the White House is not even really denying the conversation took place. Let's make that clear as well.

They're like, yeah, we know. And their defense is, oh, you know, they knew each other at a certain time, they had a falling out, and that's to the extent. Okay, fine. I mean, even according to the journal, they're like, hey man, it's not like you're implicated in any wrongdoing here, your name is in here,

along with hundreds of other people. It's like, okay, fine, then release it. But clearly, Trump is either afraid as that even those breadcrumbs as to what it will all lead to, that's very possible. The intelligence angle, by the way, I still think is a very, very, very plausible one beyond his own personal motivations.

And if you just put the totality of the way that all of the original statements from the Trump administration now align with where we are today. It just tells you nothing but cover up. I mean, Pam Pondy, thousands of hours of footage, all of these files, hundreds of FBI agents, et cetera. Remember, there was a statement from Dick Durbin,

the senator from Illinois, I think he's on the Judiciary Committee in the Senate, and he put out a statement saying, hey, we were told by FBI agents the flag when Donald Trump's name was in the files. But now it kind of makes sense, right? Because this is part of probably why they were coming to Trump just being like, hey, just so you know,

your name is in here. But that is all just, it's such a massive conflict of interest. And for people, you know, the Streisand effect of this story now is unbelievable. It's one of the top stories in the country. I'm not joking. If you look at Google traffic,

and especially if you look at people who are quote, apolitical or kind of online, a lot of them probably voted for Trump. They may not necessarily consider themselves MAGA. They're really starting to break for, you know, if you want evidence, the QAnon shaman has now broken with Donald Trump and said, fuck this piece of shit.

Just saying, all right? Listen, you could say whether or not, I mean, he stormed the Capitol on behalf of Donald Trump. I think he's a constituency of some sort for these types of people. He was a hero, if you'll recall. So I'm just saying, all these types of people, this is a very important story, it's not going away.

Well, and I think it's really the first time I can think of where all of Trump's go-to tactics are just really not working. Yeah. You know? He's normally so good at being able to change the conversation and get us chasing after something else and having to deal with some, and obviously he's trying.

I mean, I've seen the list of like all the attempted distractions. The cane sugar and the Coke and the Rosie O'Donnell should be denaturalized and lose her citizenship. And you know, now we've got the Obamagate stuff, the MLK files and whatever, and it's like, nope, people are still focused on this.

And it's so obvious too, what he's trying to do, that not to say that the right isn't interested in the Russiagate stuff and whatever, we're gonna cover it in the show, but it is not throwing people off of this particular case, especially as the story just continues to drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, continues to develop. And then the other thing is,

and you and I were talking about this a little bit before we started the show, like I don't think Rupert Murdoch is the type of media figure who's just going to be terrified and run away from the case because of the threat of a lawsuit. Trump has already, okay, he's already played that card. He said he threatened them before they published their birthday card scoop. He threatened them, said, this is absolutely fake.

I will sue you. I will ruin you, et cetera. They went forward with it anyway. And so he's already played that card with them. And then that's the other thing that's significant about this coming out in the Wall Street Journal after that initial scoop is it's sort of a message to him too of like, okay, well, we're gonna keep going.

You're not slowing us down? Yeah, let's play, let's go. I'm not afraid, we're moving in this direction. And Murdoch obviously has a sprawling media empire, including Fox News, including Wall Street Journal, including the New York Post, all of which are incredibly important and influential. And I think he also is someone who does not see Trump

as being bigger than him. Murdoch has always hated Trump, all right? In a secret way, like they despise him. It is a alliance of convenience at the very best. Trump both fears and respects Rupert Murdoch and vice versa, right? But the thing is, people need to understand about Murdoch. And I was reading from Dylan Byers,

he works at Pog, he's one of the best true inside the room media journalists. And he pointed this out. If you look at the previous settlements, ABC settles with Donald Trump, why? They were gonna win. There's. Why? They were gonna win. There's no question that they were gonna win. The George Stephanopoulos case.

Why do they settle? Because ABC is owned by Disney. Bob Iger is like, look, 16 million and I get to keep my theme park permits, which print hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Easy trade, right? Even, because they don't care about journalism, they care about business.

CBS, owned by Paramount, which needs to merge with Skydance, which needs the FTC and the FCC to approve their merger. 16 million is nothing for a multi-billion dollar deal. Sherry Redstone has been trying to offload this shit for years, she's like, I will pay anything to get rid of this. Oh, and by the way, she's super pro-Israel. So, at the same time, she's like, I don't anything to get rid of this, oh, and by the way, she's super pro-Israel. So at the same time, she's like, I don't care, whatever.

Let's make a deal. Murdoch, people forget this, he sold the bulk of the Fox empire, the Fox networks and all the other stuff years ago, and he sold it to Disney. He doesn't need the regulators nearly as much. He still owns Fox, he still owns News Corp. That's basically it. A lot of his personal empire has been offloaded,

he's sitting on a shitload of cash, as well as his foreign media empire. He doesn't need the same regulatory approval. Now listen, the FCC can make life miserable for anybody, so I'm not saying it's theoretically possible. But also what Dylan said, if you note inside the lawsuit that Trump filed, it specifically doesn't go after Fox News.

It actually doesn't touch Fox News very carefully. It was crafted to make sure it only goes after Murdoch, the two journalists, and others. Another thing is, is that Trump may actually have filed the lawsuit in such a way that it will require immediately dismissal. Because Florida law basically requires that you have to wait like five days or something

after a story to be published, to actually publish, to file suit. They did it obviously before the five days was up. They may have actually crafted the lawsuit in a way where it will require dismissal and then both sides can claim victory. So it may be possible that they knew it was a fake lawsuit from the very beginning. It was all posturing. And also, what I mean, let's think about the implication here. Trump would literally have to sit as president of the United States for a deposition for hours about Jeffrey Epstein.

About his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Sworn deposition. You really wanna go through with that? And then Murdoch. There's zero percent chance he would go through with that. It's not happening. Zero percent chance. It's not happening, yeah, exactly.

The risk for Trump is exponential. The risk for Murdoch is not that high. He's sitting on $40 or $50 billion, and he's 94 years old. And by the way, he loves to fight. As you can look at all of his past, I really recommend people go and look at some of the past legal broiling this guy has gotten himself into. Here, in the UK UK and in Australia.

This is what animates them. And so I put that all together. I'm not saying Murdoch may not settle. He may do it just to basically bribe Trump. Maybe Trump will say no more Trump administration officials on Fox News. I don't think so. They need each other. It's a symbiotic relationship.

So anyway, I'm betting on Rupert on this one. Well, like I said, I think the fact that they published this scoop so soon after the original one it really does send a message of like, we don't care. Go ahead. We don't buy that you and your fake threats that this is any sort of a real risk for us and we're proceeding. There are a couple other details that are worth pulling out

in this Wall Street Journal piece that were interesting as well. First of all, they had some details about Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi fighting. So let me read this section. They say that Bongino has told colleagues his association with the administration's decision to keep the files private has eroded his credibility

among the base of support that fueled his rise as a successful podcaster and media personality on the right. So he's concerned that this is all damaging his brand of my castor which is you know important thing for for high level FBI official to be worried about but you know did not respond to request for comments they also have these details of this fight so on July 9th they say after ABC News reached out to the White House about bondy's briefing to the president Boncino and bondy clashed in a meeting in which bondy

alleged Boncino was secretly providing information to the media. Bongino and Bondi clashed in a meeting in which Bondi alleged Bongino was secretly providing information to the media to damage her reputation. Bongino in turn exploded about Bondi. His face red and called her a liar, a senior administration official said. They also have some details in here about FBI Director Cash Patel, who apparently is privately going around and spreading the information, gossiping about the fact that Trump's name is in the file. So this is becoming common knowledge in DC. And so no surprise that Elon, I think Elon knew.

That's almost certainly the source of where Elon came from. And it makes sense because FBI director was the one who gave the order to the agents to all, remember they said hundreds of agents and said hey guys flag anything there that's in Donald Trump. So yeah I mean look nobody can deny this. The actions of the administration are so unbelievably sketchy now at this point that you know I don't even know how they dig themselves out of it. Again other than a full release but even at that point there's just just gonna be so much scrutiny, so much requirement for transparency to say, what the hell are you guys hiding?

You have nobody to blame but yourselves. Discover the exciting action of BedMGM Casino. Check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer or enjoy over 3,000 games to choose from like Cash Eruption, UFC Gold Lifts, Make Insta-Deposits or Same Day Betrayals. Download the BedMGM Ontario app today. Visit BenMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly.

If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connx Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BenMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues and evidence so tiny, you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught.

And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Authram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp

designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic Military basic training these programs aim to provide a shock of prison life

emphasizing strict discipline physical training hard labor and Rehabilitation programs mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you. We didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to Shock Incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's go to the second part here because this is equally important, kind of gets to the whole cover-up situation. Can't say you weren't warned here on this show. Let's put it up there on the screen. The judge, lo and behold, has denied Donald Trump's request to release the Epstein transcripts in Florida. This is the grand jury transcripts

that are relating to the Epstein case. You'll remember previously that they had said, quote, that the court said its hands were tied because she could not release the files from the grand jury convened because transcripts are, quote, typically kept secret except in very narrow circumstances and that the department was not requesting

the transcript for use in a judicial proceeding, which actually would have opened the pathway to disclose the jury records. So, I mean, this is where a lot of the ways that these, you know, a lot of the way in which they even, like said that they were gonna request the transcripts, it was obvious basically from the beginning that it was almost certainly likely to fail

just moving through the court system. It just gets to this whole fakery about what the Epstein files are. Like, it's in the IRS, in the Treasury data, and inside of the FBI, which you have executive purview. You don't need no judge to release any of that. You can release all of it yourself if you want to. Look at the MLK files, right?

You can release all of this data, 302s, et cetera, for the public interest. There's direct executive, there's executive purview for all of this. You have that ability today. You don't be putting this on some judge. And especially here, the grand jury documents, part of the reason why I said even that would be

dramatically insufficient, is that those grand jury documents and transcripts are specifically about the narrowly tailored charges against Epstein which only involve him and the sex trafficking allegations against him. It doesn't get to any of the broader implication. Senator Ron Wyden, who by the way you got to give credit to, the guy's been working on this story for multiple years now at this point so so long before, it was convenient. He literally said, I personally looked at treasury documents which show $1.5 billion in suspicious activity reports

that were filed after Epstein's death. $1.5 billion in wire transfers from the richest and most powerful people in the world, also connected to sex trafficking rings all across the world, including Eastern Europe. That fits with the New York financial services document. The government has it in its ability to release those documents today if they want to. Where is it? This is what I'm getting at in terms of they're trying to fool the public with stunts like

this. And it genuinely is very important for people who are interested in this to be able To parse and say and so like oh Trump tried no he didn't okay This was right guaranteed to fail basically from day one, and you know it's a stunt There's no other way to put it. That's not and you know it if they had pulled this stunt. Yeah, yeah, then fine Then yeah, right not it not fine, but I think people would have bought it more I think you're right would have been like oh We're trying and the courts are standing in our way and these

liberal Marxist judges, blah, blah, blah. And by the way, there's still a question of whether the grand jury transcripts from Manhattan will be released, but that judge has also already said basically, like, my hands are tied unless they provide additional submissions and rationale for why we would do that. So listen, this is very, very, very unlikely to happen. And even if it did happen, what it would provide would not be the quote-unquote Epstein files. But you know, the Ron Wyden thing is actually really important. And this is the thing that Julie K. Brown, who has been, you know, focused on this case down in Miami for years and years at this point,

this is what she always says. I heard her interview with Ross Douthat over at the New York Times. She said, I've always insisted that the government has tried too hard to rely on the victims to build the case instead of following the money. She's like, if you really wanna know what was truly going on here, follow the money. And that's why the Ron Wyden piece is so important.

I've said it here too. And that's why it's so preposterous. The money is the center of the Epstein's sword because that's where the arms trafficking stuff comes in, his connections with Maxwell, all of his fake wealth, the you know the Leslie Wexner stuff and it's because of the money and it's because of what I believe, what I believe is his work with these intelligence assets is what leads to the sweetheart deal of a non-prosecution. It's not that the government was running the quote blackmail ring or whatever. It's not the government was running his sex trafficking operation.

It's that when he got in trouble for that, they're like, all right, guys, we're going to help this go away. There are documented instances of this going back for decades, multiple times CIA officers and others have been let off for sex crimes because they don't want to release sources and methods. The actual financial documents and others, I believe, would show a vast array of sketchy financial transactions which have basically no other explanation other than intelligence. Yeah. That's it.

Where did all the money come from? Well, yeah, exactly. And who did it go out to? Who did it go to? And for what purposes? And for what purposes? Why was it all offshore? Why did all these banks just look the other way? This is the story.

And yeah, you're right. I'm glad that Julie K. Brown continues to beat that drum as well, because that is the beating heart of why you're allowed to get away with everything. And also, I think that's what would implicate way more. And this is where, look, I mean, no offense to Donald Trump, but he's not actually even all that wealthy

compared to the people who are actually. He is now. I was gonna say now. But at that time, that's when he's filing for bankruptcy and all of that dealing in the 1980s with the Atlantic City and all that. He didn't actually have the chops to be dealing at the highest levels of global finance.

The people who did, they have a lot to lose if those files come out. And I think it was Mark Epstein, Jeffrey's brother, who said that Trump always wanted to fly on Jeffrey's plane because he wanted to save the gas money. Oh really, because it's cheaper? Mm-hmm, yeah. So I think probably the seven times on his plane

is probably an understatement, because remember, they were basically neighbors in Palm Beach, lived like a mile away from each other. Yeah, so more like a mile. And then obviously they were in Manhattan together as well. So a lot to pull back there. Trump says though, Saagr, this is all going great for him. And his approval rating has never been higher.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to that. We've achieved incredible things in a very short period of time. And in polling released just last week, it was announced that the approval for congressional Democrats under Hakeem Jeffries has reached the lowest ever recorded 19% and Republicans are doing well and I have the best numbers I've ever had you know it's amazing I watch people on television

well what about Donald Trump's polling numbers? Yeah they're the best numbers I've ever had and with this made-up ho Yeah, they're the best numbers I've ever had. And with this made up hoax that they're talking about, my numbers have gone up four and five points. It's, they want to do anything to get us off the subject of making America great again. And we're not going to put up with it. And remember, don't let them forget, it's so important, Obama cheated on the election. Look, the camera just went off.

Obama, the red light just went off. Can you believe these people how bad they are? So obviously his approval rating is not going up, although it is important to parse these things because the polls that have come out so far do show that with his base, his numbers have stayed the same or gone up. I mean, all within the margin of error, but he certainly hasn't fallen off with like Trump supporting MAGA base, self identifying Republican voters. His numbers haven't fallen off at all, if anything they have actually gone up. But Harry Enton broke down the numbers of how his approval

rating is actually doing at this point overall. Let's take a listen to that. Look, he started off back in January plus six points on the net approval rating, minus three in March, minus seven in May. And now he's at a term too low at minus 11 points. His net approval rating has dropped nearly 20 points in the aggregate since the beginning of his presidency. He was under water on all the major issues of the day. Trump's net approval rating on all the major issues, minus five points in the aggregate since the beginning of his presidency. He's underwater on all the major issues of the day.

Trump's net approval rating on all the major issues, minus five points in immigration. His best issue, he's underwater. How about the economy? That was what he was elected for. Minus 14 points. How about foreign policy? Minus 14 points. How about trade in those tariff wars?

Minus 15 points. And of course, the Epstein case, the lowest of the bunch, minus 37 points. I do have one piece of good news for Donald Trump and that there is one other presidency that has a lower net approval rating at this point than this one. The bad news is that it was Donald Trump's other presidency, his first presidency, net approval rating six months in.

The worst was in 2017, Donald Trump was 16 points underwater. The second worst, however, is this Donald Trump presidency was 16 points underwater. The second worst, however, is this Donald Trump presidency, 11 points underwater. The average president at this point since 1953 has a plus 27 net approval rating. So there you go.

That's the reality of where he actually is. I mean, with regard to the base numbers, I was talking to you a little bit about this before, but look, I'm sorry, the liberals were right, it is a cult, and I see this as sort of, whether it's an intentional or unintentional, it's basically a test for his base. Like, will you stay with me, even as these sort of like

core central mythology of MAGA and Trumpism, even as that is completely blown apart. And it reminds me of the grabber by the P word moment. It reminds me of these doomsday cults that the day that the world is supposed to end comes and goes. And you would think that faced with this evidence that you've been lied to and this is all ridiculous

and lo and behold you're in a cult that people would sort of snap out of it and go about their lives and and some of them do, but many of times, what happens is they actually, because they've dedicated so much of their life and their being, their identity to this, they double down on it. And there's some rationalization of,

oh, well actually, God has given us another chance to recruit more members to our cause. There's some rationalization that's spun, why it didn't happen this time, but now you have to believe even harder. And when you look at the numbers just among his base, that process is unfolding right now as we speak. I don't disagree. I mean, I just don't think it's all that unique, I guess. I mean, it's one of those where, let's think about Russiagate, right?

I mean, if, I mean, we're going to talk about Russiagate later, put the actual thing and all that aside. I mean, even at the, after the release of the Mueller report, the vast majority of the Democratic base still believe that Russia stole the Election and directly influenced the vote count in 2016 bullshit, but they still believed it if you look at the cult around a lot of political figures Obama is probably a good example I mean you have somebody who literally ran on well I mean he I think his approval rating with the Democratic Party never suffered a The approval rating with the Democratic Party never suffered a significant blow up until the day that he left office. And in fact, his affinity at this point

is still one of the highest within the party, right? And so, I mean, that kind of is unfortunately a deep part of the American system. But this is why I do think that the base argument is an irrelevant one, because the base doesn't matter. Bases always stick together. They always are cultish in their support of political parties. If Obama had the Democratic base in his pocket or the Democrats had their base in their pocket,

then they would have won the election. They did not win the election. Why? Because there are independents, there are other people who still vote, especially in these lower or in these higher turnout elections, like presidential elections. And that ultimately is how Donald Trump came to the Oval Office. The MAGA base is not going to win you the state of Pennsylvania. The MAGA base is not going to win you Georgia.

It's not going to win you Michigan. It's not going to win you Wisconsin. It's not going to win you North Carolina, Nevada. I could go on Arizona, right? It's the swing two to 3%. Go look at the margins in PA. It's not like it was a blowout. It was like 1% that he won the state.

Those are the people that matter. I think this is an important moment for them, and that's part of why I get frustrated with the convo, because yeah, political bases are by and large cults. Now Trump, I'm not gonna deny, okay? The guy is unique unique for sure. Like within the context of politics. The poll he has, I think Obama's probably

the closest analog, but I still think Trump is unique. In your and my lifetime, he's the closest analog. I'm trying to think about, Reagan actually came pretty close in terms of his cult with the base. It's hard for me to really, because I was young when Reagan and you weren't even alive. So it's hard for me to like, because I was young when Reagan and you weren't even alive. So it's hard for me to have a real sense of texture.

Well, I've read about it. People should read the Nixon land books that kind of go into the rise of Reagan. It's important. I mean, he was the most beloved figure in the Republican party before Donald J. Trump. Yeah, and I mean, I sort of feel like though his mythology was almost more after the fact though.

Some, in some part. I mean, he was still very popular in 1986. Sure, yeah. And he left, I mean he was still very popular in 1986. And he left, I'm trying, actually, okay, let's put it this way, FDR. FDR is probably the most analogous example. Or JFK is another one, where even after he died in the 1980s, he'd walk into a Boston coffee shop

or something, there'd be a picture of JFK up there with a Saint medal or something like that. That's a cult, okay. I mean, he was a martyr, to his fare. Yeah, JFK amongst Catholics. I'm just saying, that type of stuff is, I wouldn't say normal, but it rhymes throughout American history,

but that's not enough to win elections. To win elections, you still have to appeal to a broad enough base. Discover the exciting action of BenMGM Casino. Check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer, or enjoy over 3 over 3000 games to choose from like cash eruption. UFC gold lifts, make instant deposits or same day withdrawals.

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Ben MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen,

I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases, to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock Incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs.

Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to Shock Incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is probably a good segue to our Nelk Boys segment because that is a watershed cultural

moment for the future of the country and for a lot of these people who did vote for Donald Trump. Put Nelk the guys out of it. I'm talking about young people. Remember young men specifically broke hard for Trump in the 2024 election. Now, will they come out to vote again? Nobody knows, all right?

I think so. People especially age, they gain some grasp in society. They start to. And I think this Nelk Boys moment is a very important one for, I think, both in the Israel conversation, but really politically and media-wise as well. So it's been, let's transition here now, the NELC boys continue to talk both about the details

of their interview with Bibi Netanyahu, but more importantly, the incredible amount of remorse that they show that they have never done before. Remember, these guys have had on Trump, they had Trump on in 2020. I remember when their episode got taken down after he was talking about the stolen election or whatever. They had on Candace,

they've had on all the most controversial people. They've never apologized. And yet this time, the level of freak out from their own audience and within their own cohort is such that they are doing public mea culpa's. Here we have Kyle from the Nelk Boys, basically not only expressing remorse, but saying he would have changed everything about the way

that he did his interview with Bibi. Let's take a listen. I wish we could go back in time and fucking grill him a thousand times harder. And we just went in there fucking unequipped to fucking interview him. We have a lot of Muslim friends. We've been to fucking Dagestan.

We all know what's in our hearts. We don't hate anybody. We're not taking sides in this shit. We love everybody. I'm sleeping great because I know how I actually feel on the inside. And I know a lot of you guys are fucking, and this is not an apology.

This is just, we fucking walked in there and we weren't fucking ready for it, so. And I know a lot of you guys are fuckin', and this is not an apology, this is just, we fuckin' walked in there and we weren't fuckin' ready for it, man. And we were just, we walked in there uneducated. And I can admit that. But, life goes on, there's nothing you could do. It's an apology. He's sleepin' great, you can tell.

It's an apology, wow. He's barely even thinkin' about this, Sager. You're thinkin' about it, brother. I mean, in some ways, I'm like, look, you got a bunch of prank, frat, degen morons who are walking in there, and they didn't know what they're doing. But they have enough.

Okay, these are 30-year-old men, okay? This is the other thing is the infantilizing, even the Nelk boys, I know that's their name or whatever. But you're a grown ass man. And people warned you, you knew going in. That's fair. And you didn't do like a day of research. Like you didn't do five minutes of research into,

oh, here's what he's gonna say, and here's actually what all the organizations say about whether or not they're starving Palestinians. Oh look, here's a picture of a dead baby who's been starved to death and is clearly amazing. You couldn't be bothered to do that. And the part where he's, oh, I've been to Dagestan. It's like, I mean, and then he's like,

well, we don't take anybody's side. Still just in the, you know, we'll just let people speak their truth. And you just, it's, I think it's important because this is the logical conclusion of the idea that you just platform anyone, and this is not against platforming people, but that you just have anyone on

and just let them spin some bullshit. And let them use your platform for their own ends. And the heartening part about it is that their audience was not having it. That is actually heartening, but it still displays that this approach is completely morally bankrupt. And I don't care that you're gonna have quote unquote

the other side on, like you had the biggest monster on the planet on your podcast and asked him about Burger King and McDonald's. No, that was the only time that they pushed back, Crystal. Right. Was on Burger King. Was on Burger King, exactly. I mean, it's just like, unbelievable. You know what, you're right.

At the end of the day, Kyle, Signe, you guys are 30 years old. You've built businesses, you're multi-millionaires. You're right, I shouldn't excuse their idiot, because they were also self-aware enough, where, if you remember, because you watched the whole thing in the beginning, they're like, we're so not qualified to do this, bro.

You know, like, we shouldn't even be doing this. I can't believe it. And you're like, well, if you have the self-awareness to be saying something like that, they're like, maybe you shouldn't be saying it. And in fact, the details coming out of this make them look so bad. Here they are admitting that they got a script

from the Israeli government when they walked into the room. Let's take a listen. So we walked in and there was just like 20 people in suits there. Yeah. The setup was already there, the like both flags. We couldn't touch anything or move anything. And they don't give you any restrictions like don't ask this? I'll be honest, they gave us a paper with questions to ask. But they also said like they kind of you know they gave us a script to ask, but we

didn't really follow it. We tried our very best to ask some questions, but I think we're... I like the questions you asked. So we tried our best, but we had a script. Now look, I will defend them in a certain respect. I have interviewed Trump on multiple occasions where the White House will hand me, it's ridiculous. It literally looks like it's from Microsoft Paint and it'll be like Trump accomplishments

and it's like a single space document of all of his stuff. You're just like, oh thank you, and you just put it off or whatever to the side. But I was prepared, I had a list of questions that I actually wanted to ask and it's like, brother, I don't think you have a list of questions that you wanted to ask, and that's the problem.

Where... It's not like he was like, yeah, they gave us a script, we threw that in the trash. No, he's like, well, we didn't totally follow the script. Yeah, and that also gets to the preconditions, right? So when you walk in there, so for example, they're like, oh, we weren't allowed to touch anything, everything was set up, there's 20 guys in the room.

It basically sounds like what happened is that the Israeli and White House set this, the Israeli government and the White House set this interview up. They were like, sure, no problem. They didn't give any conditions. They didn't ask for the ability to ask for whatever they, apparently, you know, the whole set is there.

By the way, why are there 20 people in the room? That's fucking crazy. I would never agree to an interview like that. It's insane to have all these people in there. They didn't exert any of the interviewer's prerogative, in my opinion. Yeah. And then you put all that together

now with what we're about to show you, which is that they were basically used as useful idiots here by the White House. This was revealed when Hassan started talking with the NELK boys about the exact circumstances. And here's what they had to say. All right. So you guys interviewed the, the incarnate Benjamin and Yahoo. And now everybody's yelling at you guys. Okay. So first and foremost, who the set that up? Communications team at the White House hit us up, connected us with their communications

team and presented us the opportunity to do it. But with the Fulltime Podcast, hate or love it, right or wrong, if we ever get the opportunity to have a controversial guest on, we're never going to turn it down. Because in my opinion, what we want to do with the Fulltime Podcast on is we're not afraid to have controversial people on. We're going to ask them questions. Sure, we're probably not the best at asking questions. We're not the best journalists, never claimed to be.

So we might not be the best at pressing them. But in my opinion, it's up to the viewer to form their own educated opinion. Just because we have someone on, we're sitting beside someone. People are going to be like, oh my God, Nelks with them. Like, I love this person. My question is, do you feel like there is a culpability that you have? Because like, look, Donald Trump is a contentious figure. And obviously, he's responsible for a metric ton of pain and violence as well. But so was

every other American president. That's one thing. But Benjamin Ninjahu is like unique in the sense that he's also a foreign leader, because he's getting something out of this, right? He's getting something out of this where he gets to I guess, like, try and humanize himself. That's the thing that's on is we'll have anyone on. Next episode, we're going to have someone on with the complete opposite ideology. We're talking to a few different people and we want to choose the right person to kind of represent, you know, the opposite side.

OK, but Benjamin Netanyahu isn't just like a podcaster, you know what I mean? Like, he's literally the prime minister that is a war criminal by the international criminal court. He's like literally branded as a war criminal. I think, I think if you watch it though too, I think yes. I mean, I think being signing could have pressed them a little bit harder, but we did ask him, what is your response to what people say? You're starving children in Gaza. Do you think October 7th could have been prevented? Are you trying to implement regime change in Iran? We definitely did ask him some questions that I think people wanted to know. Okay. What did he what did he say? I mean, of course he said For starving children in Gaza. He said that they bring the food in and Hamas steals it and then sells it

That's a lie No human rights organization that works on the ground from the un to the World Food Program has ever agreed to the Israeli position that this is all Hamas stealing aid or whatever see and that that really is what gets to it is like, you know Just tossing things out without being prepared on the facts of it He's actually worse because it means that you just get their response and and you know, he gets a son I actually think put it quite well. Trump, again, it's one thing. But baby, in the prosecution of a war, it really is another.

When the stakes are so high for millions of people, and people are dying as a direct result every single minute of every hour of every day that this continues, the death toll goes exponential. That's another level, right? And I just come, I said this in our original thing, I was like, look, he doesn't sit with his own goddamn journalist in his country for a reason,

because they would ask him. He only agrees to interview, with the fucking Milk Boys and Brett Baier, who are all gonna glaze him about Iran. They don't even ask him anything substantive. But to the Fox point, sit down with Trey Yngst, my brother. Go sit down with Trey in your own damn country and see how that goes for you. It's not gonna go well, like for anybody,

even who has a quote, neutral stance or whatever, who's prepared with information. And that's the part that just gets me so hard with this no thing. They say something else interesting there, which I think is very illustrative of their mindset. They're like, we'll have on any controversial figure. Like they see him as in the same lane as like Candice Owens,

or like, you know, Nick Fuentes, or whatever. Like they see him in that same bucket. And I was watching R.M. Brown, who has a YouTube channel, he's a comedian, his take on this, and he was like, in their brains, there were two types of people. People who get clicks and people who don't get clicks. And Netanyahu in their view was like,

oh, this is someone who, it's like the ultimate example of content brain. Sure, that's a good idea. I think either Adam Friedland or Hassan Piker said this to them too. They're like, not everything is content. Yeah. Like not everything is just about generating clicks and getting eyeballs and stoking some sort of a controversy.

So you're the center of attention. Like some things actually matter. This man is doing a genocide right now in real time with the support of our government and you are not equipped at all. You acknowledge you are not equipped at all to actually know what's going on and be able to ask him intelligent questions or even more importantly, ask intelligent follow ups when he lies to your face as he did multiple times. And so I think that's what this comes down to is like this incredibly amoral view of the world

where it's just about like, who's gonna get eyeballs to my channel? This'll be hot, hot topic. This will get me attention.'s gonna get eyeballs to my channel. This will be hot, hot topic. This will get me attention. This will get eyeballs to my channel. Therefore, I'm gonna do it. I'll sit down with any controversial figure. That's what they say.

As if this is just, you know, some podcast or somebody like, you know, trying to sell some merch or sell a book or whatever. And not to say those things aren't consequential as well, but this is so different. This is on such a different scale. And so I hope that it's a cautionary tale, because this did not go well for them. I mean, their own audience,

their sub count has gone down somewhat. Their own audience completely revolted against them. I haven't seen anyone come out and say, I haven't even seen the Israeli, like, they're being like, oh, this was great and you guys did a great job. They compared him to Adolf Hitler afterwards. In what world did that go well for you?

Right, right. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Exactly, like in their post-interview spin, they're like, yeah, somebody wrote in and was like, yeah, you just interviewed modern day Adolf Hitler and he was like, yeah, you kinda got a point there. So, it's just, no one is defending this. Let this be a cautionary tale of like,

if you're going to play in these waters, number one, you could bring someone in, you could have as a condition for the interview, I need to have whoever it is that you trust, that you think is insightful on this, to ask some real questions. I'm gonna have this person in the room, I'll do it, but we're gonna have this person

in the room too, or just don't do it. That would have been infinitely superior to this absolute mess for yourselves and for the world. I think it was a good turning point though in the culture of the internet. I think it could be too. Let's put this final one up here. This is from Mike Sternovich.

I actually thought it was very insightful. And what he says is the NELK boys, who are wildly popular with Zoomers, far more than any political or MAGA influencer, had on Netanyahu and their audience is furious. Netanyahu is deeply hated. We are talking 90-10 hated, more so than even I realize. He actually followed it up with,

if you spend time on Twitter, you would think it's like 60-40. And he's like, no guys, it's 90-10. And in fact, if you look at the like-dislike ratio on the video, I mean look, to be fair, these can be brigaded and all that, it's like somewhat indicated. I dug look, to be fair, these can be brigaded and all that, but it's like somewhat, you know, indicated. I dug deep into that comment section.

I did not see a single positive comment, not one. 33,000 likes, up votes, 168,000 down. I mean, that's insane. Now again, you can be brigaded from outside and all of that, but that's, it speaks to the point where there's not a single defense. In fact, every single person in their cohort either is ignoring it or condemning it, right?

And that is really like very, very indicative to me. I also think it's a bat signal broadly to everybody on this issue where, like you said, it's not just content, it's really not even, I hesitate to say ditch neutrality, but it's about confrontation. And it's really about holding facts, like holding people accountable for facts,

and really, if you're going to agree to it, to actually get into the nitty gritty and not allow some enlightening lies. And that really was like the biggest problem with the whole thing. And this is what pisses me off too, is because you and I have done many confrontational interviews. Neither of us likes doing it. I hate doing it.

It's not fun. You have to prepare a lot. It's uncomfortable. You know, there are some people out there who like enjoy the food or the like debate bro types and they enjoy the vibe. Chris Matthews, Piers and all these people. I hate them. I mean, I think Glenn loves to get in and mix it in.

Like there are people who are wired that way. Most people are not wired that way. I'm not wired that way. But when you have someone who's sitting in front of you, who aspires to power, has some position of prominence, it is a responsibility that you have to be prepared and to be uncomfortable if that's what the interview requires. And so this idea that it's somehow noble and good

to do none of that and just let people spout off whatever they want, it actually pisses me off because it's a coward's and a lazy way out. Yeah, it's not fun to have to do those things, I get it. But that is actually, if you wanna play in these ponds, if you wanna swim in these waters, that is actually what is required.

And you don't have to be an asshole about it, it doesn't have to be personal, but you need to come equipped with facts and replies and think about, okay, here's what they're gonna say and here's how I'm gonna follow up. You have to game all of that out in advance and be willing to sit in that discomfort and just do it anyway.

So I agree. And that's why the NELC guys would be better off not doing it. Oh, of course. And they would have been better off passing it. And by the way, the fact that the Israelis would only agree to NELC and not to anybody else, I mean, it tells you something, right?

Yeah. It really does. Like honestly, I'm being serious. This will sound crazy to say, even like a pro-Zionist political person might have actually done a better job because they are gonna be equipped with some, or they're gonna know what to tee him up on.

And they're gonna actually get him on the record for various things instead of generic stuff. Be like, what's up with all these people starving in Gaza? Or what did he say? He's like, why does everybody hate you? That's a stupid fucking question. And he didn't even ask why are people starving. He said, why did he say? He asked, and he didn't ask. He's like, why does everybody hate you? That's a stupid fucking question. And he didn't even ask like, why are people starving? He said, why do people say?

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. And then Bibi could just, oh, well they're lying. And we love the Palestinians and we're trying to get them aid and Hamas is stealing it. It's just like. Ugh. Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spain

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