Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 8/25/26: Abdul Unleashes On Jesse Watters, Hasan Piker Controversy, Darline Graham Flailing, Jamie Belsito MA Candidate

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

In the second half of the show Ryan and Emily look at Abdul El-Sayed going off on Jesse Watters in a Fox News interview about trans sports, a deceptive clip of Hasan Piker causes Abdul campaign to panic, Trump goes all in on Lindsey Graham's sister Darline as she fails to answer questions on foreign policy, and MA Candidate Jamie Belsito tells Ryan how AIPAC has been pressuring her in the race with the support of a women's group. To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. It's been an eventful couple of days in the Michigan Senate race. It's a blow-up around Hassan Piker, Abdul El-Said, and Mike Rogers. Also, Abdul-L-Saiet appeared on Fox News with Jesse Waters. Let's roll a little bit of that. So the question, so again, like, Jesse, you have not asked me one time about the issues that people actually.

care about in Michigan. You don't want to talk about gas prices. You don't want to talk about groceries. You don't want to talk about the stupid trade war that's about the destroy machines. We spent the whole interview talking about that stuff. That's destroying, that is destroying our own military. You don't seem to want to talk about any of those things. You want to bring up all this culture war that, you know, I'm not here to fight a culture war. I'm here to fight the war. We talked about gas prices in the Green New Deal, okay? If you want to do an interview, I'm going to blow them up every time. You can do the interview, okay? You're doing the greatest Jesse, like, I mean, this is, like, you could play this game if you want, but like,

you can keep doing the greatest hits if you want. You told me we're going to come on for a conversation. And when we have conversations, I think it's okay to also ask questions. I just want to understand what you're getting at here. I'm getting at whether you think men should play in women's sports or Michigan. It's a big issue. I'm interested in getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket and passing Medicare for all.

You're full of us. You know what sports kids play. You're filibuster. It's a big issue. Because, like, I want to talk about issues that you were, you were deserving. to hear about. All right, so you want to answer that question? What issue? You won't answer the question. What issue? Go ahead, Jesse. What issue? Should men play women's sports? You have daughters, right? I think that, look, I played sports my whole life. Sports were an important part of my life. I'm grateful

for the opportunity to play sports. And at the end of the day, the decision of who gets to play what sports ought to be decided by the people who govern sports. I'm running for U.S. Senate. Jesse, it's insane. I'm out here trying to take on like the health care crisis and big farmers. and you're asking me about who gets to play what sports. It's silly. It's kind of a big thing if you've been following the news recently, Abdul. Let me ask you about the politics. We'll get to your race right now.

Please be serious. I'm here with you. I want to have a conversation about the issues that matter. Let's do it. Let's talk about the things that people are actually talking about. Okay. What did you think of that back and forth? Well, there's more, right?

There is. You want to do the next one first? I think the next one would be helpful because I have a say, I think they'll get at something similar. Same debate. It goes a little deeper. That's why I know you about it? So you think it's okay for a parent to slashes kids stiggling off? You think that's okay.

I mean, do you, so do you really want to have this conversation? Are you circumcised? Yeah, yeah, but I mean, that's a personal question. Okay, doctor. You probably should want to move on. You probably should want to move on. A circumcision's different than castration. I think it's a problem.

It's a problem that you have. think that you get to decide what happens? That's where it became a disaster for Abdul al-Said. I did, yes, I did not think that that was a good talking point. I don't know what that was a talking point or not. I don't know if he came up with that on the spot. I feel like he came up with that on the spot. Let's hope, because that's bad.

Yeah, but that's why I wanted to play both of those, because I think what he was going with Jesse Waters is probably, I think, if you are a progress. progressive candidate, populist left, but have some 10 years of, I should say 10 years of some baggage on cultural issues if you're in a swing state like Michigan, meaning there's a, you're going for this minority of voters who are swing voters who want to hear mostly about economic issues right now in a tough economic climate, then actually saying that the right is distracting by obsessing over cultural issues is politically a decent line. I do think that that same group of voters wants to hear something that you believe, they want to believe that you believe

what you're saying on this issue. Yeah. And if you can't pass that litmus test, which I think is where Abdel Aseid is struggling in the interview, it's like, does he really believe that castration and circumcision are the same thing? No, but was it a clever way to me? make Jesse Waters laugh in the interview and just kind of get out of a tough spot, perhaps. But it's now going to be on TikTok everywhere, Instagram everywhere, and it looks like a really unserious response to a question that you should be able to have a pretty basic answer to. And so I get the distraction line. I think there's some political heft to it in a bad economic situation, which obviously

we are in right now because of the Iran War. I don't think it works if you can't also combine it with a, a common sense answer to a question like that. Yeah, I think that's right because it ends up... So I think it is true that they're trying to use culture war to distract from this other stuff. And it is good to point that out. But if you just keep saying that,

it starts to look like you're using the economy to distract from your unwillingness to just give a quick answer to the question and move on. An honest answer. Yeah, you don't have to dwell on it for 15 minutes. Right. But just a quick answer. And I thought on the sports question, they're getting closer to a good answer, which was,

I'm running for U.S. Sent. It's ridiculous that I even have to have a position on this. It should be up to the sports, the commissions, like the various commissions that, like, regulate this stuff. I think what you could start with is to say everyone agrees that sports needs to be fair. Neil deGrasse Tyson, I thought I had a fairly good answer. I don't know if you saw this recently where he said he was a college wrestler and he was like and remember when he was a high school wrestler he was like I think it was college and he said I wrestled

in a 190 pound category because it wasn't fair if I wrestled against 120 pound person right or a 240 pound person um and so we have long understood the idea and even talking about in rowing they've got heavy rowers and light rowers because it's unfair he's like so for a long time in sports we have decided that because of biological differences between different athletes we have created different categories to make sure that there's fair competition and as we are transitioning into this new world we can't deny that we're entering a new world what we have to do is continue to update the way that we're creating fair categories of people So what and then what that looks like can be left up to people who are experts in this.

But you can say, I agree with you that there is some unfairness in the way that we're applying the old way to the new world. You could just say on average boys have physical advantages over girls in sports and that can put girls in danger. And so I trust this to be worked out at the state local level. But fundamentally, I agree with that point. I mean, I'll work it out on the state. Right. Because what people have seen is as soon as a candidate who's maybe a left populace, and Zara Mamdani has handled this very, very well. He's not running on the federal level, and it was the Obama administration that issued that dear colleague letter that said you have to read gender identity into Title IX when it says no discrimination on the basis of sex.

That is what federalized this right away, which is where it does make it hard for the left to point the finger at the right and say, well, I mean, I think it was Charlemagne the God who accused Ines Cantor Freedom of disrupting. women's basketball. He literally disrupted women's basketball, but women's basketball was disrupted in high schools around the country by the Obama administration and by the left that said you now have to re-gender identity into this, which means there will be some boys, not many, but there will be some boys on local levels that are going to play basketball. And we have seen problems with that. Many people around the country have seen problems with that. And if you can't have an answer that sounds like you believe it, I would have been so interested to see how Grant Platner handled this because it's been a big issue in Maine with Janet Mills fighting the Trump administration on it. I think Platterner is a true believer in gender ideology, like sort of Judith Butler level, gender is on a spectrum and there's interchangeability.

I think he's a true believer in that. And that's fine. I totally disagree with it. Most of the country disagrees with it. I think he really believes it. Those are the cases where I think it's interesting because if you say what you really believe, I think, you get away with it better than trying to, like, groping to say, oh, are you circumcised?

Because that looks like you're avoiding saying what you believe, which is, on average, like he's a football player. Right. He knows. He knows. Right. And also, come on, circumcision. What are we doing?

It was kind of funny. It was, it was, it was kind of funny. I thought, like, overall, Abdul crushed it. But the, but a couple. And but the problem, though, is that those couple of moments are going to probably get circulated for a very long time. Right. Among voters who, the exact ones that he was trying to reach by going on Fox. Yes.

But he went on Fox for a reason because he thinks, and he started out beautifully, he's like, Jesse, thanks for having me on. You and I both agree that Mike Rogers is totally beta. And Jesse's like, I didn't agree with that. He's like, yes, you did. You laughed. Pretty good. So they basically began by shoving Mike Rogers into a locker. And so he's trying then to win over the people who are like, yeah, Mike Rogers is kind of beta.

Right. Florida lobbyists sellout. Right. And so the people were probably, those people were with him. And he's hammering it on the billionaires where Jesse's like, I want to, you know, I want to profit from the fruits of my labor. And Abdul Al-Sai said, buddy, like, billionaires. don't labor. They make money because their money makes money. And you tax a tiny bit of that money. They're still making lots of money. I want to basically tax wealth not work to rob Gary's

economics. And I'm sure a bunch of people watching there were like, yeah, of course. Like, billionaires don't labor. Bosses don't labor. That's not how they make their money. And then he gives those couple clips where those very same people are going to be like, oh, just another liberal. Right. They're going to be disappointed by them. Right. And again, I think this is an economic election. There's no question about it.

Like way more votes will be decided by the economy than they will be on this issue. But when we're talking about 2028 and what can come in the future and also some close elections where you do need to convince like suburban moms in Michigan who care about this. Dad's in Michigan who care about this and see, again, it hasn't visited every community, but it has visited many communities. And you've talked to track athletes who, you know, because a couple of people in the state are competing in the opposite sex category, it does create problems for then dozens of girls because just if you have one boy in the league that can, that's outrunning the girls. That does, like, affect all of the other girls down in the tournaments and those sorts of things. So anyway, all this is to say, economy is the major issue, but it's still a hurdle for Abdul al-Sayed and other Democrats to overcome. they have not quite nailed the messaging on it. Yeah, and it is good for Democrats, I think, to have to go out and test this stuff.

So I'm glad that he's out there trying to test these messages, these talking points, or whatever they are. Because I think your point is the right one in the beginning, that people want you to sound like you believe what you're saying. Yes, exactly. And if they think you're lying about this, then they're not going to believe you on your other stuff. That's like that's you put it better than I did. I think that. And of course, and they don't think that he thinks castration and circumcision are the same thing.

Exactly. Like nobody thinks that. Right. It looks, especially not a doctor. It was a little too cute by half. Yeah. Now,

hopefully, maybe it's cute enough that people are like, ah, he's just joking. We'll see. But he's also facing this, another round of a Hassan Piker controversy. Yeah.

What's going on with this? I tried to figure out what was going on with this. So let's, let's get into this a little bit. So I'll start with D3, actually. So this is Mike Rogers jumping on a deceptively edited clip that was circulating. So Mike Rogers says more calls for violence coming out of the Al-Saiad campaign. Here is his running mate, Hassan Piker, saying that if American Jews support Israel, they will be violently targeted because of it. This is all in reaction to Michigan Democratic congressional candidate Jeremy Moss, who happens to be Jewish,

saying he is unsure if he will be able to support Abdul for these very reasons. Absolutely disgusting if Abdul al-Sayat had any courage at all. He would call this out and disavow Hassan Piker once and for all. We're waiting, Abdul. And let's play a little bit of what he said. He said a version of what everybody basically agrees, which is, well, not everybody, not APEC, but his argument is, it is unfair, ridiculous, and dangerous to conflate all of Judaism with Zionism and the state of Israel, to lump together all Jews and blame them for the actions of Israel is wrong. and so people should stop conflating and dangerous.

Those two things. That's what he was saying. They added it in such a way that suggested that violence or something would be justified against Jews for their support of Israel, which is the complete opposite of what he was saying. And so... He was sort of predicting that would be...

Right. He's saying what you're doing by linking Judaism to Zionism is furthering anti-Semitism. Right. So let's play a little bit of what was going around. This is D2. I mean, look, to the anti-Zinist Jews in my community,

you have a very tough job ahead of you. Well, you have to go back to your communities and try to get your elderly relatives to understand that this connection between Israel and Zionism that is expressed over and over again through a lot of these Jewish institutions, is teaching people the idea that Jews are monolithic. And this is a dangerous, it is a very, because look,

it's a very dangerous mode of propaganda. And you want to know why? Because people don't fuck with Israel any longer. And if Jews in America keep putting this idea out there that they are singularly invested in Israel, eventually someone's going to come around, and take action. Not against the state of Israel, mind you,

but against American Jews. Okay? We're teaching people the wrong lesson. So in the fuller context, it's pretty clear that he's making a very standard point. Mike Rogers, Neera Tanna, and a bunch of others,

you know, began circulating it, and I can maybe put it in the link to the show, a more deceptively mashed together, multiple different clips pulled together to make, it kind of a much harsher like where he's justifying the thing so then el-sayyid comes out and this is what i think he made a pretty uh pretty huge mistake because they're now jumping on him al-saii comes out and you can put up d-1 um he says he writes uh my statement on hasan piker's comments

regarding jeremy moss he says i believe all americans deserve the right to advocate for what they believe without fear of violence. This is particularly true for communities that have been intimidated for their beliefs in the past. My commitment to Jewish safety is the same as my commitment to the safety of my own daughters. Antisemitism is a scourge, and we need to address it in all of its forms. And I stand against any rhetoric that puts the community at risk. But I want to be crystal clear. Nobody speaks for this campaign besides me and my campaign spokespeople. And while politicians and pundits try to make this race about a Twitch streamer, we're going to be talking about gas, groceries, and health care because that's because that's what michiganers keep asking about it's why i'm fighting

to get money out of politics money in your pocket and medicare for all uh son piker responded to that by saying he thinks the entire statement was well said he objected to the part at the top that says my statement on hasan piker's comments regarding jeremy moss because it bought into this frame that he actually had said something that he had not said when the A smarter response from El-Sai would have been to say, that was twisted and deceptively edited. And also, he's not on my campaign. Why are you asking me about every little thing that this guy who talks for 10 hours a day says? Yeah.

Now, Neeratandan and the people who have been spending months trying to bring Abdul Al-Saiah down have said, see, we told you. He's now distanced himself from Hassan Piker. He never should have associated with Asam Piker. anybody who associates with Hassan. Piker needs to be rooted out of our politics, taking it as a victory. Why did it work?

I don't know. Months of bullying. I'm surprised by it, honestly. People, you know, the mobs are intimidating. You whip up enough of a mob. I don't know. It's a good question. Because he was shameless about his affiliation

with Hassan heading into the primary. They were at that pool party together right before the time. primary. On the election day, yeah. Right. And so in the general election, I mean, but the point is he was doing the kind of bold colors, not pale pastels, this is the Ronald Reagan line of how, like, if you actually lean into what you morally believe, it's often politically better for you, because people believe that you say, that you believe what you say or you believe, to kind of bring this full circle. And so to then look wishy-washy on Hassan, I don't know that that's actually

even politically helpful. It seemed like his instincts were better than that. Which is to say, I'm standing by something that I believe in, and your attendance bullying is not going to work. Right. I think you're very much correct, because she's now just rubbing it in everywhere. And everyone else is jumping on it, too. We can put up D5. This is Hakeem Jeffries, who spells blood in the water. The malicious claim, this is Hakeem Jeffries, the malicious claim that American Jews are inviting violence against themselves is dangerous and anti-Semitic.

There is zero justification for threats against the safety of our Jewish brothers and sisters. in a moment of rising hate. We will fight the cancer of anti-Semitism with the fierce urgency of now. Like, he did not make a threat against our Jewish brothers and sisters. Like, he did not do that. He just simply did not do that.

Like, it is a manufactured and fake thing. But by issuing this statement, Abdul kind of opened the door for... Yes, that's a good point. enemies to come in. And for candidates around the country, too, it's not going to happen. And what they don't, what the left just never seems to understand is that people like Jeffries, people like Neartan, it is not obvious that they want Abdul al-Sai to win.

Like, you should not take for granted that they want him to win. Everything they're doing suggests that they do not want him to win. If populist candidates can win in states like, Maine and Michigan or and Michigan seven where Will Lawrence is running or Randy Vegas in California or elsewhere. If those populace candidates can win, the entire mode of politics that Bakim Jeffries and Neo-Tanin represents is rejected. They would rather lose those races to the Republican than lose their position in the party.

It's the iron law of institutions as it's known. And so stop thinking that if you just capitulate a little bit to them, that they will then get on your team. They're not. They're not. The only thing that can keep them on the team is shame because it's too embarrassing to be publicly oppositional to your party. Well, just to your point about opening the door up, this morning's Politico playbook, so read by pretty much every. Beltway Insider, the headline is literally, how do you solve a problem like Piker? That's the headline.

By winning. There's no political playbook this morning. There is no Piker problem and you solve it by winning. Yeah. Well, the- Not by losing and trying to like cut an entire portion of your coalition out. Again, it's, to me, it's like- They solve it by losing.

In the last- To their mind, if they can say, look, Left won primaries in Michigan and Maine, and we lost. To them, that solves the problem of Piker. By losing two Republicans. Like, that's their goal. It's like in the last couple of weeks, establishment Democrats have decided to make,

and Republicans, obviously, maybe it's happening because Republicans have moved into general election season in a lot of these races, and they know that they can try to make a boogeyman out of Hassan Piker. but it's like the last two weeks establishment Democrats. It's like they are the ones who just discovered like the Dave Matthews band. And now they're talking constantly about like, man, this guy, Dave Matthews. It's like they just discovered their new favorite.

Somebody DMed me the other day, begging me to give Dave another shot. Someone DM'd do that? They said I was trashed Dave apparently on the show. You trashed Dave Matthews? That's fine. I said fine, man. You're going to do it? Sure, why not?

Why not? Meanwhile, who is Mike Rogers? We put up this final arm. This is D4. So Mike Rogers, I don't know if we covered this, if you guys covered this last week. Rogers, APEC said after they lost, after Haley Stevens lost, that they were going to spend tens of millions of dollars against El-Syad backing Mike Rogers in the general election. Now Mike Rogers has told them he doesn't want them doing that publicly because they're too toxic.

Abdul al-Assi is going to use APEC support of him. So he proposed a bunch of schemes that are illegal to varying degrees. One of them was, how about I just hire all of your Super PAC staffers onto my campaign and you just give me all the money? Which if it comes from the Super PAC, like, that's illegal. If they just set, which is how would kind of have to go. You cannot coordinate like that. You're not allowed to do that. He's like, what if you just have a whole bunch of fundraisers for me instead?

And so right now, as we speak, he's out in Los Angeles doing, according to New York Times, three straight major mega donor APAC fundraisers so that the money comes directly to his campaign so that when reporters like me say, you know, he's supported by APAC, they say, no, he's not. What are you talking about? Well, but see, this is interesting. He's running away from APAC for a job. general election. But while running to Los Angeles to raise money from APAC. Of course, but it's a very telling moment after all of your years of reporting that a general election establishment Republican

candidate like Mike Rogers is actively trying to distance himself from APAC via these schemes, obviously which are faring degrees of ridiculousness. But in the meantime, establishment Democrats still think that Abdul Al-Said needs to sprint away from Hassan Piker as Mike Rogers is sprinting away from APEC. It's a pretty strange situation. He's also running away from data centers. He just said he supports a one-year moratorium on data centers. Wild times. So, yes. The problem of Hassan Piker is really actually a problem for Republicans if the Democratic establishment was interested in forming a coalition with the left to beat Republicans, but obviously

they are not. And Republican voters, I mean, the people who turn out in midterms are not, there tend to be higher propensity, which means they're older Republican voters who are on one pretty particular side of the Israel policy debate. All right. So let's move to South Carolina, where Trump is weighing in hard behind Lindsay Graham's sister. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies?

Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.za for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted. controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators

to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is the true. Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. The South Carolina Senate runoff featuring Lindsay Graham's sister Darlene Graham, Senator Darlene Graham, is tonight and Donald Trump has put in everything. I mean, not literally

But by Trump standards, everything, this cycle at least. Let's actually start here with E4. Trump has put more than $800,000 from his own pack into backing Darling Graham, who he's also, of course, endorsed over Ralph Norman, seen as a much Trumpier candidate, by the way. Trump and Norman have gone back and forth over the years, but he's a populist Republican, and Darlene Graham is, well, we don't quite know. It's unclear how much Darlene Graham knows what her political identity is, actually, because she struggled so badly in this question about foreign policy. Actually, a couple of questions

about foreign policy that have been going massively viral in mega circles, actually just generally in political circles, because it hurts, it hurts to hear these. It's just so painful and uncomfortable. Let's take a listen. E1. Are Taiwan and the South China Sea national security issues for the United States? And if so, why or how? I'm just going to be honest here. I'm not on national security. I'm not that important. on national security, so, but I do support the military. My brother was in the Air Force for 33 years, so I will do everything I can to support the military.

My dad was in the Army. I'm not a polished politician up here. National security is not my thing, not my area of expertise, but I do support the military. I tripped up on one question last night regarding Taiwan. But you know, I've said many times, I'm not a politician, certainly not a career politician. I don't speak politician. You know, I was just honest. Of course, Taiwan is our friend, but I think people in South Carolina are more worried about making ends meet.

They're concerned about boys and girls' sports. All right. So my friend Alweaver at notice actually just reported in the last hour that now top Republicans are indeed expecting Darlene Graham to lose this. That is despite the endorsement of the president of the United States, almost a million dollars. from the President of the United States's PAC and this fascinating scheme happening under the surface, Ryan, by lobbyists, solar lobbyists. Say that part again?

They think Darlene's going to lose? They think Darling's going to lose. That's the latest headline in notice on the campaign. I can actually, yeah, the headline is literally Republicans expect Darling Graham to lose the South Carolina runoff.

Is it Tuesday? It's today. Oh, it's today? Yeah, it's today. It's today. So, not like a great for Darlene Graham, But she does have this huge boost from solar lobbyists who detest Ralph Norman. Now, a lot of lobbyists want Darlene Graham to win.

I can read a couple of quotes I got from sources recently. One says this is the best possible, a best of all possible outcomes for the swamp, a blank saint-slate senator with no convictions or clue to what's happening. And a staff with decades-long K-street connections, it's corporate lobbyist dream scenario, which might also be why Donald Trump decided to dump $800,000 into the race. Other source said, the South Carolina primary is D.C. money interest for someone who has never played the D.C. game well. That would be Ralph Norman. A darling Graham win keeps the money flowing to a cadre of consultants, lobbyists and special interests. It's no wonder they are spending heavily for her. She did have a K Street fundraiser right after advancing to the runoff. Again, no surprise. What is a bit more surprising is the scheme from clean energy lobbyists to get Northam, Ralph Northam out of the, I keep saying Northam because of Virginia, Ralph Northman. Yeah, I just did that in my head. But anyway, trying to get him to be oglesed or Chiproyd, this is really, really interesting.

We can put this E&E, Politico E&E headline up on the screen. This is E2. Solar Company executives and supporters, spending $1 million to defeat hard right Republican Ralph Norman in his campaign for Senate could see their work backfire. Politico just reported in the last few days. the Invest in Tomorrow Coalition, that's a PAC backed by the Clean Energy industry, which is itself, their biggest donor, is a crypto guy, kind of interesting, announced last week it was going to campaign against Norman. This is after the PAC spent big. They report to unseat Andy Ogles in Tennessee this month. So they spent $2 million to get Ogles out of office. They spent

big to get Chip Roy, who also lost his primary. And they're taking a page from the APAC book and not running any ads on clean energy, but just quietly exacting their revenge on Republicans who fought hard to undo the Biden clean energy grants and money with the one big, beautiful bill. And interestingly, they've now put a bunch of money behind Darlene Graham, essentially, a million dollars into this runoff on behalf of Darlene Graham, was the only other candidate in the race, to make sure that Ralph Norman doesn't make it.

And it's personal for them. Norman back in... Norman had previously been the co-chair of the Congressional Solar Caucus. Like he was a champion of Solar, and then he flipped on it. And now he's a huge opponent of it. And so I think if he had just been

a kind of Bog-standard opponent, who was always against Solar, they probably just leave him alone. But because of that betrayal, they wanted to set a, you know, make an example of him. And also, I think to your point, Darlene Graham is, they believe malleable. A blank slate with her brother's staff.

That is deeply tied to K Street. Right. And, but it's, that's interesting that it's, that they might fall short on this one. But yeah, Tom Matzzi is the... Let's put this on the screen.

So Tom Matzzi, he was basically got to start at the AFLCIO. Then he was a top operative for move on, which is when I met him, so that's 20 years ago. So you know this guy.

Yeah. He's been around D.C. Yes. And then, but he left politics early 2010s to launch a clean energy company. And the clean energy company was a huge success. So what's unusual about Tom is that most people in the progressive world don't know anything about business.

Like to be a little blunt about it. It's like the opposite of the conservative donor world. All they care about is business. Right. Whereas he is a very successful businessman. And he understands, you know, how business operates. He's also a ruthless political operative. and so

you know he yeah he took a page out of the super PAC in particular APAC playbook to go because when they went in and ran ads in the Oval's race the Chip Roy race they weren't just like APAC

never mentions Israel they were not saying you know vote for this person because they're good for solar or bad for solar they were saying like these are the you know they're basically just cutting typical 30 second attack ads what I would expect that they'll start doing is taking the APAC plan one step further, which is, you know, now APAC very often

completely disguises that it's even them. So it's one thing if your ad doesn't mention Israel, but at the bottom it says paid for by United Democracy Project, because then you can Google that and find out that United Democracy Project is APAC, Super PAC. What they've started doing now is they'll say, paid for by elect Chicago women, And if you Google Chicago Women, it like just formed a week ago. You're like, well, where's this money coming from? And you don't find out until after the

election that it was APAC money. And so, I would expect if it starts to become a liability, that it's solar money that's playing in these races, that they'll just do the APAC thing and call it elect South Carolina women

or elect Lindsay Graham's sister. So this group that Matzzi is running the Invest in Tomorrow Coalition, the biggest donor is a man named Chris Larson. So $6 million of the $6.8 million this pack has are from Chris Larson. Chris Larson, fascinatingly, is right now being protested. His home is being protested by sunrise activists because of his support of flock and his financial ties to flock. He is a crypto, I think he's a billionaire. He's a ripple.

Yeah, Ripple Lass. Yep. And so he's a massive crypto billionaire. And he's plucking off. I mean, just on paper, he's just picking off people who pissed him off. He's using literally his millions of dollars to just say, buy Andy Ogles, by Chip Roy, by Ralph Norman. We'll see if that actually happens. But it's really, like, on paper, it's the exact type of like Apex style behavior that should have not just the left, but absolutely everybody up in arms.

It is just disgusting oligarch behavior, and it is so interesting in this case that he's doing it for presumably clean energy, the purposes of clean energy, kind of crony clean energy type behavior. But he's currently being protested by sunrise versus aboard a flock. It's a crazy DEC story. Also, sunrise is so funny. Like, they do so little climate stuff anymore. The sun is rising over all of the issues. Like, yeah, flock sucks. What does sunrise after that?

It's very, yeah. Yeah, that's just kind of become a vehicle for whatever young people are upset about at the moment, which is fine. And Larson is invested in surveillance technologies. And so it's, you know, you'd see why they're targeting him. But it's funny that he's this clean energy guy who's literally trying to pick people out of Congress and make sure that they don't get elected because they're. didn't support the clean energy subsidies. Like, it's just, this is a truly fascinating DC story.

Right. And the other thing I would say is, is, most of the donors, the major donors to APEC, Super PAC, are Republicans. And one of the things that has been so frustrating on the Democratic side has been to watch Republicans intervening in Democratic primaries. So I guess I would say, how do you, how do you like it? How do you, shoes on the other foot now. Crazy.

It sucks, doesn't it? Yeah. Kind of like to just do your primary. Talk about actual... Talk about the issues that are relevant to your primary voters. Without distortion from people who are claiming to talk about the issues relevant to primary voters. I'm talking about something else. Yeah.

All right, right. Well, speaking of all this, we have a candidate to get to. Let's pivot. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life. exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society. the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real. messages inside compelling characters, and that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. I've seen a lot of weird financial shenanigans in my political reporting career, but a move pulled off by a Democratic candidate in Massachusetts. 6th congressional district is a brand new one to me. The candidate is Tram win, and she's running in an open race to replace Seth Moulton, who is running for Senate against Ed Markey on Tuesday. She's presenting herself as the progressive in the race, or at least one of the progressives,

and she even got the recent endorsement of squad member Ayanna Presley. She's getting new traction in the race, thanks to spending from two super PACs. Following the money to both leads to some interesting places. One of them is called pro-choice majority action, and it's primarily funded by a separate pack called Elect Democratic Women Action Fund, and both have served this cycle as vehicles to hide money from A-PAC's Super PAC, which is called United Democracy Project. Indeed, A-PAC so far, has given EDW Action Fund more than $2 million of the $7 million total it has raised. So I asked Lenny Young, a representative of EDW and pro-choice majority, whether this particular money had come from A-PAC, and he said that it didn't, but he declined to say where it did come from.

So far, they've dropped $450,000 in the past week with much more expected in the final days. The other Super PAC is called the Save America Fund. The largest donor to Save America, bizarrely, is the committee to elect Tram win. So that money came in on October 21st, 2025, and it came from Wendon, state-level political action committee. Now bear in mind that it is illegal to use money you raised for a state race on your federal race because the laws are different around how you can raise it. Two days after sending that money to the federal super PAC, she launched her race for federal office. Now, in the last two weeks of the campaign, the super PAC she funded is all of a sudden spending big to elect her to federal office.

office. The Super PAC works with Democratic Megalore Mark Elias, so presumably he blessed this roundabout way of dodging federal campaign finance laws, but it's quite aggressive at best, if not illegal at worst. Now, back in 2024, meanwhile, Save America Fund worked directly with the Super PAC Democratic majority for Israel, but there's no evidence they've done so this cycle. So joining us to talk about all of this is former state representative Jamie Belsito. His who is also running in this race and also kind of running in the progressive lane. Jamie, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.

Thank you very much for speaking with me today about this race and very, very important, very important race that we have here in the sixth. Yeah, and the state representative win, you know, also, I don't know, she's still in the legislature, I believe. She is. And she's, yes. And she's endorsed by the kind of moderate to conservative House Speaker there, which is, you know, to me kind of cuts against the progressive lane that she's trying to run in. But I wanted to get your perspective on this race. So when you first jumped into the race, what did you understand about kind of the layout of where the various kind of super PACs were going to fall?

Sure. And I have run for this race before, and I write out the gate said, people's pledge, no outside money. And APAC would not touch me with the 10-foot pole. I am a working mother of two. I'm a proud product of this district. I'm bringing almost 30 years of experience to this race, Ryan. I have been an elected town moderator, an elected state representative. I flipped a district to Democrat that hadn't been held by a Democrat. since 1858. And I'm the only Arab American woman ever elected to our state legislature. I'm also the founder of a national maternal health nonprofit that has been focused on reducing maternal mortality across our country. And I've been working with Congress for the past 10 years to gather over 125 million new dollars in federal funding, working with Congress to make sure that we're taking care of moms and babies. And when it comes to this race, I can say this. The Democratic Party is broke figuratively and literally, and they've allowed special interests,

like the ones flooding into this race right now, to dictate our policy. And I'm running for Medicare for All and ends these endless wars. I called out the genocide as a sitting state rep and was told point blank by the Democratic Party, you'll never be able to run for office again. And here we are with APAC money trying to come in and buy this. race. So as I understand it, because of the maternal health nonprofit that you were running, you've worked with some members of Congress in the past. Tell me about some of the conversations that you had before getting into the race with these members of Congress. I think this is

pretty, be pretty edifying to people about how this stuff works. So I have great relationships on the hill by way of the work that my nonprofit has done in this space. And I was brought in to you know, the room where it happens, so to speak, and was told to, you know, tow the party line. And that is not something that this race that I'm running to represent the people of the best district in the country where I am from and where I'm running to make sure that we are not taking all the APAC money, all of the AI money. All of the cryptocurrency money. I mean, that was the directive to me.

And I said, no, thank you. That's not who I'm planning on representing in the halls of Congress. I'm planning on representing folks who can't put food on the table, who are worried about their utility bills skyrocketing out of control, who can't find a place to live. At the beginning of this segment, I mentioned this Super PAC, both pro-choice majority action and EDW Action Fund. EDW, yeah.

Yeah, did they mention any of those super PACs? PACs in relation to APAC or AI when you were in Washington? The specificities are on the PACs themselves. No. I mean, even as just as a citizen, when I hear pro-choice majority action, it doesn't correlate to me that that's an APAC shell, right? Or the United Democracy Project, but you're seeing that these, that these shell come, I don't know what we want to call them, to be very frank with you. are funding mailers in putting people up on TV right now? And the focus was, the focus in the energy of that conversation was,

take all the money because the end goal is to get a woman in this position. And that did not sit well with me because this is, again, I spoke earlier, why the Democratic Party has been influenced by special interests and people are not being represented. And I told them that I would not take the money, and then they've gone ahead to endorse the representative from Antover, Tramwin. So they said, take all the money, take the APAC money, because the important thing is that a woman win this race. Now, Representative Lois Frankel is the one who chairs the CDW pack and has been reported to have been moving APAC money around. Did you meet with her?

Is that and can you tell me? That's what I met with. Yes. It was Frankl. Yes. And Ryan, I'll be, you know, I'll be transparent and saying I was unaware of her position within the organization. EDW to me sounded nice. Oh, elect Democratic women, right?

Of course, that's who I'm going to meet with. I'm a formally, you know, elected Democratic woman. So it did not, it did not indicatively say to me that there was anything that I should be concerned with, but when it was conveyed to me that it was time to lean in and take all the money. But, you know, again, the last time I checked, I am a woman, but I guess not taking the APAC money disqualifies me as a candidate. Elect certain kinds of Democratic women. There you go.

Yeah, the disclaimer was not as transparent, but that's where it is right now. Yeah. Could you just since you're, you know, in this race right now, explain to us a bit about how consequential this money and support is. Like, say you were taking APAC money and AI money. What does that mean for a candidate running in a district like this? Well, I'll tell you this. You know, we are on the doors.

We've knocked 50,000 doors. We have 400 volunteers across this district. It's 39 towns in cities, right? And the prohibitive part of this is getting on TV, is putting out those mailers, is being on the streaming. And so if you aren't able to pay to play, for lack of a better term, it becomes somewhat prohibitive, although I do have to say for us, we have the largest grassroots campaign. We are meeting people where they are.

We are in their communities. And I'm from here. I'm a known entity in the district that I'm running. But whether it be trim or other candidates, the money that's flooding in from special interests is what's allowing people to be put on the streaming channels and on on the TV channels. But I go back to the fact that this district here up the North Shore has a strong, what I call a no BS detector. And I don't think people realize the bill of goods that they're being fed under the guise of, yeah, pro-choice majority or, you know, the United Democracy Project. And it's on purpose.

It's on purpose. That's the part that is so hard, again, APEC won't touch me with the 10-foot pole, but they have figured out a way to go around it so that people don't look at a mailer or a commercial and go, oh, geez, you know, that's the thing we're talking about these days. We don't want to support that. So Tram went about a week ago, I said at a forum, and then also then she tweeted out, she said, as someone who fled an authoritarian regime, because she fled Vietnam at the age of, I know the devastating human cost of violence and displacement, the genocide in Gaza must come to an end.

It's time to stop writing blank checks for forever wars. So what's your sense, so where, you know, what's your reaction to that? And what's your sense of why a PAC that has been significantly funded by APAC would be okay, getting behind somebody who says the genocide in Gaza must come to an end? So I've been very transparent again, Ryan, on this. I have family that still resides in Syria. As an Arab American woman, as a mother of two, as somebody who has their own nonprofit and taking care of mothers and babies, we've been watching a live stream genocide on Instagram for years now. And let us be frank, this has been an ongoing issue for over 70 years.

And I have been incredibly outspoken to the point where I've received death threats. I was put into the local Jewish newspapers as the anti-Semite next door. And people have decided to use this issue as politically expeditious to signal to folks, oh, I'm a progressive. But up until recently, even during our candidates' forums, the rep from Andover did not believe that there was a genocide. Secondly, is Israel committing genocide? Okay, we have a split there. And that's insulting because it's been part of our foreign policy, our U.S. tax dollars,

going to fund a foreign military to murder and kill people. And this is the reality of where I've always stood and why I'm receiving the pushback that I'm receiving right now because they do not want someone like me in Congress. And last question. So the races on Tuesday, what are you finding to be the major fault lines in a open Democratic primary like this? How are people trying to differentiate themselves? And what are voters kind of demanding at this moment?

It's, you know, this is all about money, right? When we continue to allow special interests to dictate how people know who's right, running, what our policies for the United States are going to be. We will never have Medicare for all. We will have forever wars. We will continue to ingratiate our military with the state of Israel. We will never have clear representation of the people by the people for the people in this district.

It will end up turning into data centers and people continuing asking why can't I afford my food bills while. because our money is going towards for-profit health care or making sure that the government is giving ice gloves that can electric shock people. It's all of the monies, it's all the special interest monies, that continue to run, not just the GOP and the Trump administration, but the Democratic Establishment Party.

I am a Democrat. I am running to take care of my district because when I was a congressional intern for Joe Mowgli, 30 years ago in South Boston. Here's what you want. You take care of the people in your district. You make sure there's food on the table, a roof over their head, and you try to help them get a job.

And I have 30 years of fighting for the regular people, and people are looking for someone like me to represent them. And without the money, we are just meeting people where they're at, and that I will continue to do until Tuesday. But we need to let the American public know, that whether it's Matt Little or Malachiaros, or will Lawrence, these PACs will continue to try to influence what the American people should be voting, who they should be voting for, and what decisions are being made on their behalf.

Well, Jamie Beltito, candidate for a Massachusetts, 6th Congressional District. Thanks for taking some time. The election is this coming Tuesday a week from today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. That was a really interesting interview, Ryan. Pinkwashing. You call it pinkwashing.

Yeah, so elect Democratic women was launched in 2018, you know, after the women's march and, you know, the height of anti-Trump. And now it's just flush with APAC money. And it's very interesting to hear that Lois Franco privately is saying that this is, it's the same thing. There was some tea. That was some tea. That was some strong tea. Yeah. Good stuff.

Well, I'm going to call Ayanna Presley, too, get her comment on. This is, this is not how I think. think people expect Democratic primary politics to unfold on the progressive side. I would imagine it's not. That's dirty. Yeah. Well, you're going to be in with Sager tomorrow, right?

Brochow and then Sager Thursday too or Crystal Thursday? No, Sager or you? I don't know. Yeah, we'll figure it out. Show up Thursday. We'd like to do planning on the air. Just me. We'll do it live. Well, breakingpoints.com Full subscription. Free Month

trial is still going. Head on over there. If you're interested, otherwise Ryan and Sager We'll see you back here tomorrow morning. Have a great one in everyone. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

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