Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 9/17/25: Trump Sells TikTok To Pro-Israel Friends, Kash Says Epstein Trafficked Victims To Nobody, Judge Drops Luigi Charge, UN Declares Gaza Genocide

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

Ryan and Emily discuss Trump sells TikTok to pro Israel friends, Kash says Epstein victims trafficked to nobody, judge drops terrorism Luigi charge, UN declares Gaza genocide.   Ken Klippenstein: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/  To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists, to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us father and daughter for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different.

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anymore. anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Well, I've probably said this 20,000 times at this point, but it looks like there's a TikTok deal on the table. But actually, this time appears as though there actually is a time. It's a

TikTok deal on the table. Donald Trump says he's trying to finalize the deal within a call with President Xi Jinping on Friday. But in the meantime, let's take a listen to why Trump feels confident this one is actually going to stick. Well, we have a deal on TikTok. I've reached a deal with China. I'm going to speak to President Xi on Friday to confirm everything up. We made a very good trade deal, and I hope good for both countries, but a very different deal than they've made in the past. be announcing that. We have a group of very big companies that want to buy it. And, you know, the kids wanted it so badly. I had parents calling me up. They don't want it for themselves. They want it for their kids. They say, if I don't get it done, they're in big trouble with their

kids. And I think it's great. I like, I hate to see value like that thrown out the window. So on auto, thank you. So auto executive. You know, you're talking about tens of billions of dollars. So Trump, we can put this next element up on the screen, had to once again extend the deadline, which came from that bill, we covered it at the time last year, went through Congress, signed by Joe Biden, was upheld by the Supreme Court. Trump had to keep extending this deadline from the bill to basically orchestrate a spinoff. This was the fourth time that Trump extended the deadline. It is now extended to mid-December.

Obviously, he hopes to have a deal in place before that and hopes to just get agreement from China and from his side on Friday in a call with Xi Jinping. But, um, Ryan, this deal is quite interesting. We can put the financial time story up on the screen. This is the next element. The headline here, Beijing says TikTok's US app will use Chinese algorithm, which completely, completely undermines in a very hilarious way. The intent of Congress's spin-off law. The entire point of that bill was to get the algorithm out of the hands of Beijing. So the head of China's cybersecurity regulations said on Monday that U.S. and Chinese officials agreed to this framework that included, quote, licensing the algorithm and other intellectual

property rights. Now, licensing the algorithm could mean different things legally than operating the algorithm. I don't actually know how that'll shake out. It sounds like nobody really knows how that would shake out. But the deputy head of the cybersecurity in China said the deal would entrust the operation of TikTok's U.S. user data and content security. Now, the contours of this deal are also quite interesting, of course, because guess who's involved? Nobody will be surprised to hear Larry Ellison.

So, bite dance would spin. I'm reading from the New York Times here, quote, spin out the apps American operations into a new company, According to two people familiar with the discussions, some of TikTok's largest investors would maintain their stake in the American app. I wonder who that might be, Jeff Yass, a Trump donor, Jeff Yes? While BiteDance would also bring in new U.S. investors to reduce Chinese ownership to less than 20%. The people said Oracle, which already provides computing resources for TikTok, is among the investors expected to take a stake in the new business. According to two people familiar with the talks, Larry Ellison's, Oracle's co-founder is working to help finance a bid by his son, David, to buy the entertainment,

Warner Brothers Discovery, which, by the way, David Ellison also just bought, merged, Skydance, and Paramount. So that's the CBS Free Press deal that you've seen. And bringing in the free press, yeah. Right. That's what you've seen covered. The list of other potential investors has been in flux, according to the Times. Other entities that have discussed investing in recent weeks include the private equity firm, Silver Lake, while General Atlantic. And guess who else?

Susquehanna, two firms that are already investors in ByteDance would roll over their stakes into the new entity four of people said. I think I heard Andresen Horowitz as well. Andresen Horowitz was reported. Yes, according to CNN. That Mark Andreessen, big Trump supporter, one of the big muckety mucks of Silicon Valley. Yes.

Also, you know, very, very supportive of Israel too. As we were mentioning at the top of the show, Larry Ellison himself has donated tens of millions of dollars to Israeli nonprofits. It's the most, the bulk of that money going to friends of the IDF to build like training centers and otherwise support the IDF. Yeah. So, you know, Silver Lake is interesting because they, you know, they have a big chunk of, or they've been big investors in Airbnb, but they did Waymo. Mm.

So, and, you know, it's a global private equity fund. And if Oracle already in a deal had basically was doing the cloud for TikTok, now they'll do the cloud plus apparently have some ownership stake. This could be the kind of the worst of all worlds in the sense that China maintains control over the algorithm, which is the thing that the U.S. has been concerned about. Like this thing that can shape the views of the American public is controlled by another. country. Reasonably concerned about it. We say as our adversary. Yes. So they're going to keep doing that. They'll license it then to people who are the most adamantly pro-Israel in the United States. And so, you know, just as, you know, opinion, attitudes in the United States are becoming more and more skeptical towards Israel and it's genocide in Gaza, you'll have strident supporters of

Israel controlling not just CBS News and Warner Brothers but then also TikTok. But will they actually control it or does, or they just get to license the algorithm? Now, if they control it, they've got some ability. You've got to think to target particular accounts and also to meet with the people who were doing the algorithm. Like, look, tweak this. And this guy over here, I'm sick of seeing Ian Carroll in my. in my 4-U page,

nuke this man, or whatever, you know, whatever. Whoever's bothering Larry Allison. So what is the U.S.? I see why it's good for China. I see why it's good for Israel. I don't see how this bill that was passed by Democrats signed by Biden is going to be good for the United States.

Supported by a whole lot of Republicans, too. Should we roll into that now? Well, yeah. And let me just say, there are a lot of norms and precedents that have been shattered by Donald Trump and this second administration has been full of challenges to the legal order. But Ryan, I feel like this TikTok delays, so this is the fourth TikTok delay, is one of the more disturbing. Actually, to me is like maybe the most disturbing because, you know, we disagree on a lot of the other ones. But

on this one, it is a just flagrant disobedience to. Congress and what disturbs me so much about is that basically nobody is worried because everybody wants to ban TikTok and including about like I've been supportive of banning TikTok but just completely ignoring a law passed by Congress not even bothering really to make a legal justification and then nobody like Dems have challenged everything Trump does in court every breath he takes gets a challenge from Mark Elias and related law firms nobody is challenging this one because everybody wants to ban TikTok, and they don't care that Trump is figuring out a way to sell it off because they assumed that, and maybe it will get a challenge now, that the

algorithm is apparently going to stay with China. If that's the case, maybe it finally will, but everyone assumed that Trump was actually working to orchestrate the deal, so nobody, nobody challenged the fact that he was just completely ignoring the law and giving these corporations a past in the most corrupt way possible, which is to orchestrate a spinoff that would benefit people who support him. Like Republican donors, Jeff Yass. It is mafioso behavior, and it's very gross.

And we're about to play some quiet part out loud clips that talk about how the TikTok band went from bubbling to getting over the top. And they very specifically say it was, because after October 7th and Israel. So the reason I think that this might actually go through is that the national security state's hostility to TikTok because it is connected with China

is not enough in our political system to get you over the top. They didn't have the muscle to do it. They needed Israel as the issue to come in and push it over the top. So now, because, you know, Congress, if it was really about national security, we'd be like, wait a minute, China still owns the algorithm. This doesn't count. This wasn't the point. Right.

But because it's being handed off to pro-Israel investors, I think Congress might be like, all right, you know what, good enough. So maybe. Still sucks. China's going to be able to, like, shape attitudes for most Americans. But at least China is often pro-Israel. Well, we'll see. And BB's been pro-China in ways that have irked the right. Yeah.

So if you think I'm crazy, here are a bunch of people with power and involved in this legislation telling you exactly how they got this over the top. Typically, the Israelis are good at PR. What's happened here? How have they and we been so ineffective at communicating the, the, you? realities there. The way this is played on on social media has dominated the narrative. And you have a social media ecosystem environment in which context, history, facts get lost, and the emotion, the impact of images dominates. And we can't discount that. But I think it also has a very, very, very challenging effect on the narrative.

A small parenthetical point, which is some wonder why there was such overwhelming support for us to shut down potentially TikTok or other entities of that nature. If you look at the postings on TikTok and the number of mentions of Palestinians relative to other social media sites, it's overwhelmingly so among TikTok broadcasts. So I'd note that's of real interest. And the president will get the chance to make action in that regard. We were able to sort of learn from that experience. We refined the approach.

We worked with him. We worked with the executive branch. So we had a bipartisan consensus. We had the executive branch. But the bill was still dead until October 7th. And people started to see a bunch of anti-Semitic content on the platform. And our bill had legs again. So that was Congressman Mike Gallagher, who was the lead champion of the bill.

Former Congress. From now, he works for Palantir, I believe. Yes, of course. He works for Palantir now. What he means by anti-Semitic content is the same thing that Blinken is referring to, which is images of Palestinian children getting eviscerated by Israeli bombs. And for Blinken there, he's saying the problem, there's a narrative problem there. Because it's divorced from context and history.

What he wants is to just tell the story that, you know, Palestinians are all Hamas, and Israel has a right to defend itself and then the American people start to see images of what it looks like for Israel to defend itself and that's tens of thousands of children starving to death and having their arms and legs blown off and that is a challenge as Blinken accurately puts it that is a challenge to the narrative

and as Romney says therefore we need to ban it and so that was and as Gallagher says again don't don't take my word for anything. Just listen to Romney, Lincoln, and Gallagher. And so that's what got it over the top. And so that's why I think that this deal will go through because it accomplishes not the mission that they originally wanted to accomplish, which is getting China out of the algorithm. It leaves China in the algorithm, but it accomplishes Israel's agenda. And that's more important

in Washington than our national agenda. It's insane, but it is what it is. So obviously, Jeff Yass and Larry Ellison are both supporters. I mean, Ellison is himself, actually like Mitt Romney, close to Netanyahu. And so Romney goes all the way back to like the mid-70s, by the way. This is a fun fact, with Netanyahu, actually at Boston Consulting Group. I went back at which then came in to offer help to the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation for the ethnic cleansing plan. Oh, that was BCG. So they both shared an office on the 16th floor.

They worked on the 16th floor offices of BCG back in 1976. So they know each other well, too. And so does Larry Allison, Jeff Yes, also a supporter of Israel. So to Ryan's point, maybe that does make them more comfortable. But I also think, grand, it's not just, Israel aside, for Gallagher and others, this is also very much about China. and there's this we don't need to open up that can of worms

but the sort of hawkish approach to China is like the TikTok bands are very very popular among hardcore China hawks and again I actually don't think Gallagher really care about that I think Gallagher absolutely cares about that

he is I mean he talks about this anytime you see him he's talking about China and that's where I think that's actually really where it started at least oh that's definitely where the band started and that's that's everybody's accurate story is that this started as an antsy china thing yeah yeah you're saying it morphed but it didn't have the muscle to get over the top until october 7th that's absolutely true right yeah 100% no question about it and it's that that will carry it up through

is my is my take yeah oh i think that's i'm wrong yeah i think that's probably right um we'll see we'll see uh come on why is this taking so long this thing is ancient still using yesterday tech, upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, ultra-light, ultra-powerful, and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra Processors, blazing speed, and AI-powered performance. It keeps up with your business, not the other way around. Whoa, this thing moves.

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search at Lenovo.com. Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one.

We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country. Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith. But there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe in. To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective.

There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ed. Everyone say, hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself.

My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. Here.

Well, 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's move on to Cash Patel, who was testifying in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday

and talked about all kinds of stuff. I mean, everything under the sun, as you can imagine, Ryan, and it was for the, I thought this was actually quite interesting. I went and looked at how the right reacted to Patel's testimony, because he's been under real scrutiny from people like Steve Bannon and Chris Rufo, since the murder of Charlie Kirk, Rufo question whether he was up to this investigation. Bannon has been very, very critical of missteps and what he thinks are inadequacies on behalf of the FBI investigation. Just the whole dining at some fancy New York question while you're, come on.

Yep, absolutely. You have a job to do? Yep, absolutely. And then he said that there was somebody in custody. and then that person was like, go, and all kinds of, yeah, different questions that have been raised. But Patel just teed off on, like, Adam Schiff, who's his mortal enemy for, I guess, fair reasons, actually, because Schiff is, like, trying to destroy Cash Patel. And Patel has been vindicated on, like, the Nunes memo point going back years.

But let's just put all of that aside and dip in to particularly how Patel has been vindicated on, like, the Nunez memo point going back years. to particularly how Patel handled questions about Jeffrey Epstein, which is why I thought, right, and it was interesting to see so many people on the right pull out these viral clips of cash going after Cory Booker, Maisie Hirono, and Dick Durbin. He got a little auto pen, one-liner in, and he was going viral on all the sort of usual spaces, even while he's under scrutiny for the Kirk investigation and still, of course, scrutiny from the Epstein investigation that has, you know, dated back to his Joe Rogan experience appearance not long ago, which is when he first really started to have people on his own side

questioning how he was going to handle this. So let's look at some of these Epstein questions from yesterday. Right after she gives this testimony, in front of an FBI agent among others, she's transferred to a minimum security prison not suitable for a sex offender like herself. Who made that decision and why? The Bureau of Prisons. The Bureau of Decisions made it in prisons. You want the American people to believe that?

Do you think they're stupid? No, I think the American people believe the truth that I'm not in the weeds on the everyday movements of inmates. What I am doing is protecting this country, providing historic reform and combating the weaponization of intelligence by the likes of you.

And we have countlessly proven you to be a liar in Russiagate in January 6th. You are the biggest fraud to ever sit in the United States Senate, your disgrace to this institution, and an utter coward. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised that you continue to lie from your perch and put on a show so you can go raise money

For your charade, you are a political buffoon at best. Well, you can take an internet troll. Take it to the bank that the FBI is protecting this country and the state and citizens of the California. We have been historic reform. But all you care about is a child sex predator that was prosecuted by a prior administration and the Obama Justice Department

and the Biden Justice Department did squat. And what did President Trump do? bring new charges courageously. And what have we done? You said I'm the most transparent FBI director in history. 33,000 pages of information to you. I challenge you to say anything credibly to the truth. Go ahead and run to the cameras where you want to go now.

Who, if anyone, did Epstein traffic these young women too besides himself? Himself, there is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday. that he trafficked to other individuals. And the information we have, again, is limited. So the answer is no one? For the information that we have.

In the files? In the case file. Okay. Personally direct that investigation so that you would sign such an... Did I personally direct what investigation? Of the Epstein records for any reference to President Trump. Again, you are citing reporting that I think is baseless. Who at DOJ and FVI were responsible for its drafting?

in conclusions. Many individuals at the Department of Justice and the FBI are responsible. There was no lead, no lead person? The Attorney General leads the Department of Justice and I lead the FBI. So the Attorney General is responsible for that? The Attorney General leads

the Department of Justice. So for all of that, Ryan, I think it was actually Republican Senator John Kennedy, who got the better of Cash Patel compared to even those other exchanges because John Kennedy is the one that's asking, so you're saying that these people were in prison for trafficking girls to

himself. So he added after that Galane Maxwell is in prison for trafficking to nobody. Right, right. Just trafficking to Epstein, I guess. Like, if we're going to be super generous to the FBI. But yeah, she's in prison for trafficking.

Yeah, and Patel well, Patel is probably careful enough in his wording here to avoid any perjury lying under oath legal challenges. But because he goes on to say, there's no credible information, none. If there were, I would bring the case

yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals, and the information that we have, again, is limited. Kennedy says, so the answer is no one. And then Patel responds for the information that we have, which is probably where he wiggles out of all of this. But, I mean, it just defies logic and reason to maintain and to cling to this story, which is why it's somewhat amusing that one of the viral clips here, I wrote a story about this, actually, just in the last, I think it just went live the last several hours. One of the exchanges that he has with Adam Schiff, where Patel does rightfully point out that Schiff has been caught

in some of these these Russiagate leaks and was on the wrong side of reshgate and all of that. The right is going or, that exchange is like going viral on the right. It was in the context of a conversation

about Epstein, which is also interesting because Patel is under fire for the Epstein investigation from people like John Kennedy and people on the right who say, that defies logic, reason, any explanation that you're saying nobody was being trafficked to, like these girls were not being trafficked to another person.

Like, what about potentially Les Wexner? What about potentially Prince Andrew, who settled the case with Virginia Jafray? There are all kinds of... Can't even throw Randy Andy under the bus? Like, come on. Randy Andy. That's what they call him, Randy Andy.

Okay. This is on your Discord chats. No, it's literally his nickname. these like pervert circles. British tabloid. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right.

But this is, yeah, he said he goes on to also, in one exchange, he said, I have not reviewed the entirety of these files myself, but a good amount. And I mean, I guess that also, maybe that doesn't defy logic because there's just a truly absurd amount of information on Epstein that the FBI has behind closed doors. Apparently they had an army of, like, lawyers going through this stuff. for months before they decided, oh, case closed, we don't have anything else to go through. Nothing else to worry about here.

There's no other legal recourse, no other legal avenue for the FBI to pursue. We've got through all of it. Don't worry, according to Pam Bondi. So, laughable, laughable. Also, just, we can underline utterly wild to see a senator and the director of the FBI shouting at each other like that.

Yeah, it is. That is a thorough break from the link between the FBI and the establishment of the United States that has existed for decades. And I don't know what that means and where it goes, but that is an interesting political development. And in a way that totally, what's the right word, confuses the boundaries, meaning Cash Patel came into the FBI as a bitter opponent. of the FBI that was close with Adam Schiff and the FBI that was representative of the political elite. He is now on the side, actually, of the political elite and arguably of the FBI that was close with Adam Schiff, that also was being dodgy about Epstein files. And so that's also strange in and of itself, where you have the role reversal of Adam Schiff suddenly being the person who's

skeptical of the elite story and of the establishment story. And Cash Patel being the person who's defensive of the establishment story, a very strange inversion and turn of events. Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient. Still using yesterday's tech, upgrade to the ThinkPad X-1 Carbon,

ultra-light, ultra-powerful, and built for serious productivity, with Intel core ultra-processors, blazing speed, and AI-powered performance. It keeps up with your business, not the other way around. Whoa, this thing moves. Stop hitting snooze on new tech.

Win the tech search at Lenovo. unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians.

I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations. But 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country. Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith. But there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe in. To bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective.

There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing. intergenerational conversation, public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin, so, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

I know it sounds like the start of a bad job. but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? a new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage.

Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's move on to news about Luigi Mangione, whose terrorism charges were dropped yesterday. We can go ahead and put E1 up on the screen. Luigi Mangione, according to the New York Post, you can see pictures of him at a court appearance Tuesday morning, of course, in the killing of CEO Brian Thompson for trial in the killing of CEO Brian Thompson. So reading from the New York Post here, just to get the details all accurate, a judge has

thrown out the top counts in Luigi Mangioni's state murder case, rejecting claims that the accused killer can be charged as a terrorist, which the post describes as, quote, a huge blow to prosecutors in that ruling release Tuesday, Judge Gregory Caro tossed charges of murder in the first degree as an act of terrorism and murder in the second degree as a crime of terrorism against the 27-year-old Ivy League grad. The judge did keep alive, Manjone's other second-degree murder charge for allegedly executing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson and Coldblood outside the health care company's investor conference on December 4th, 2024. We can put the next tier sheet up on the screen.

from ABC News, which goes on to say the judge's case was that the evidence presented to the grand jury was insufficient to support the terrorism charged the quote here as well. The defendant was clearly expressing an animus towards UHC, United Healthcare, and the healthcare industry generally, it does not follow that his goal was to, quote, intimidate and coerce a civilian population. And indeed, there was no evidence presented of such a goal. that is an interesting argument, Ryan. I totally buy that there was insufficient evidence presented to the grand jury.

We have no idea what evidence was actually presented to the grand jury. It does, though, seem that part of the reason Mangione's followers have supported him, actually we can put the VO on the screen, this is E3. You can see people celebrating the dropping of the charges outside the courthouse yesterday. That's actually why people celebrate Mangioni, why the people who are in this, like, creepy cults of personality, Luigi cults of personality celebrate him is because they see it as an act of terrorism to intimidate CEOs. And so that's the argument here is that Mangioni himself doesn't see it that way. Right, exactly. The whole reason they like him is that the killing sent shockwaves through the executive class, particularly in the insurance.

industry. Right. I guess they're saying that they couldn't find any claim directly from him that that was his intention. But common sense would say, well, what else was his intention? He wasn't even a United Health customer. So it wasn't as if he had direct personal animus for Brian Thompson. That's a good point. So why, then what was the motive? Right. If it wasn't that. Right. Like, yeah, whether you like him or dislike him that that was his whole thing right right seems like there's a manifesto wasn't there yeah yeah another clippenstein news yeah like yeah okay well i mean the guy's gonna have guys endless charges on him yeah of both federal and state so getting a few dismissed is symbolic although does it does it not relate to the death penalty well the fed you can get a federal death penalty, too, though. But isn't that with the terrorism charges? That was state level.

Oh, okay. Okay, so. It's my understanding. Okay, so, yeah, okay, that makes more sense. Okay, so the question of whether or not this was a, met the broader standard of terrorism, according to what was presented to the grand jury, is the distinction between whether or not the grand jury said, okay, there's evidence for this, and us, I'm chair of quarterback's being like, well, the dude said, like it wasn't a UHC customer, at least not

that I know of. So it does, yeah, it does seem hard to believe that's how it went down. But interesting, Ryan, to see the celebration in the midst of the week that we've had. Yes, probably not good timing for Luigi. No. Because I think a lot of people, who were kind of flip or supportive of that killing are now looking at it through a different lens, say, whoa, whoa, okay. And I think maybe it's because a lot of nobody knew, nobody in the media world knew Brian Thompson.

That might have been part of it. But, I mean, clearly there's still some people willing to come out and cheer them on. Right, right. Yes, to your point, ABC News continues. In addition, a second degree murder, Mangione will be tried in state court on two counts of criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree, four counts of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree, one kind of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth

degree, and one count of criminal possession of a forged instrument in the second degree. So obviously all kinds of charges still sticking against Luigi Mangione. It's just this particular two terrorism charges that were dropped by the judge yesterday. He's pleaded not guilty to state charges in New York and Pennsylvania and the federal charges. So to Ryan's point, those all exist. These are state charges in New York on the terrorism count. Right. Ryan, let's move on to news out of Gaza.

I know you have some stuff to get to here. Yeah, we can put F1 up on the screen here. So a team of independent experts that was commissioned by the United Nations Human Rights Council has concluded that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. That's the new report issued this week. So at the United Nations, one of the people involved with this report was pressed by the media about the Israeli reaction to it and found this kind of instructive as to where we are in this conversation. Now, let's roll this. These reports should be taken seriously, but honestly, the Israeli responses are becoming so boring.

You know, they say the same thing every time. They're producing the responses by chat GPT these days, and they spend so much money in the foreign ministry on propaganda. You think that they actually come up with something original. I would want them to engage with the evidence, but they never engage with the evidence. They bunch, put the report into chat GPT, and then they put out the standard response.

So no one takes it seriously, and Jamie, you shouldn't either. And so this is happening as the genocide is only ramping up to genuinely unseen levels in Gaza City. We can roll some of the footage that we've gotten from our correspondent Abdel Qadr Saba in Gaza City. What Israel has clearly been doing over the last week plus is targeting some of the most. iconic and recognizable buildings in Gaza City, these high rises, and just taking them down. What Eftal Khadr has been describing and others who we've, who are reporting for us out of Gaza City, that they're getting just moments. And you notice there that how close they are to the, to the beach. Like there's not, there's basically nowhere left to go. They're getting minutes.

warning that that this huge building they're all housing hundreds of families is about to get taken down and Obdakadr said he's seen images of people and seen with his own eyes people getting these messages

and then just immediately just throwing everything they have out the window like taking mattresses because now they know displacement is absolutely here and we're going to need somewhere to sleep so they're taking the mattresses and throwing them out the window, taking blankets,

and anything else that they can get their hands on and get to a window and throw it out and still give themselves enough time to get out of the building before the terrorists strike it and take it down. And offering just the most ridiculous explanation. Sometimes they'll say, well, there was a camera on top of the building.

Like really, you know, they have operational control over huge portions of Gaza City. You saw a camera on top of the building. You can actually just go shoot the camera if you want, if that's a Hamas camera. You had to take out these buildings, many being taken out with people inside them. What's going on is they're trying to make Gaza City

the largest city in Palestine uninhabitable. And just enforce a question. Like just forced, like, because they have no end game here because the end oh no it's it's eradicating Hamas right in there on the cusp of it just right around the corner any minute now they're going to eradicate Hamas even though Anthony Blinken told us as Biden was leaving office earlier this year that Hamas had already reconstituted like 80% of what it had been right and their their weapons as we've said before come from unexploded Israeli munitions Israel has dropped so many bombs and a significant

percentage, whether it's one or ten, it's going to be more than a resistance organization could ever need. So they use the unexploded ordinance. And when the IDF actually does send in ground troops, which is rare, mostly they're doing this through the air, then these fighters run up to the tanks and just throw the munitions into the tank and cause significant casualties. Most of it is done from the air, though. Because, you know, what, you know, in the long run, if they can make it uninhabitable, they feel like, okay, then they have to go somewhere else. Now, one place they could go would just be eastward. There's a giant neg of desert that if this was really about eradicating Hamas, the Palestinian population in Gaza could move eastward into Israeli territory.

They can then fight it against Hamas. and then rebuild Gaza, and then people move back into Gaza. But the plan is not for them to move back into Gaza. The problem is, and talking to people who are involved in evacuations, it is difficult to find host countries to take one or two people. It's almost impossible to find a country, even Ireland, they'll take dozens. They're not taking hundreds. Israel is trying to expel upwards of two million.

They don't have anywhere to send them. Now, we keep getting reports of negotiations going on between Libya or Somaliland or South Sudan. And so maybe eventually they will pressure some country, some beleaguered country with, we'll recognize you Somaliland if you agree to take two million Palestinians. But then physically, like, if all Israel can do against Hamas is bomb them, physically how do you force that to happen what they're trying to do is push everybody down to the south and then they think from there they'll be able to push them out

how like it's so but you know it's not it's not well thought out it's just a day to day internet dropside daily which is our new newsletter which people should get if they're not reporting this morning that internet's now cut off in northern Gaza so we have no idea what's going on up there in the last several hours, unless people can get a, you know, have an Israeli SIM card. That's the only base, and then it gets cell service like that. That's the only way people can communicate out of northern Gaza at this point. And so the, in the midst of this, we have

another report from a drop site that actually we can put up, that Genoa dock workers have said, have, have, have, have said that on September 22nd, they will shut the port of Genoa down. If there is any interference with the flotilla that is now headed towards Gaza's humanitarian flotilla, more than 40 ships with humanitarian aid that are trying to get into Gaza, the general dog were saying it doesn't make sense that we can send 17,000 tons of military equipment to help Israel carry out its genocide, but we can't send 50 tons of humanitarian aid in. If they carry out a shutdown, it would be very difficult, it would be against the law in Italy, do it. But if they did shut down the port of Genoa, that that seizes up commercial traffic in

Europe to a significant degree. Because it's the, I think, the most significant, Marseille is a very significant port too, but I think Genoa might be even more significant to commercial traffic, you know, in and out of Europe. This is, but there is, you know, you've got the UN at the top saying this is genocide. You've got the dock workers in the ground saying that we're not going to abide by this, but everywhere else the governments are abiding by it. Mm-hmm. What do you think happens next? I mean, what's your prediction with this?

There seems to be no willingness to stop this. And Israel seems hell-bent on carrying it out. There was some hope recently that, because Hamas kept saying yes to every ceasefire deal, that this would end. And Trump had put out this little hundred-word ceasefire offer. That was very basic. Hamas responded very favorable. And then they met to, like, formulate their final response to it.

And then Israel bombed them while they were meeting to discuss this ceasefire offer. And so now that's where we are. What do you think happens with the dock workers? I think they'll try. And I don't know if the flotilla will be in Gaza by the 22nd. We'll see. So, I mean, they seem resolute. And there was a vote of those two unions.

You can see the whole video over at drop site. So we'll see. But, you know, the power of the state is serious. and, you know, the states have broken plenty of strikes before. Yes, that is for sure. Super interesting story. Thanks, Ryan. Yes, thank you.

So we'll be back on Friday, Crystal and Sager. That's right. We'll be here tomorrow. Yeah. We'll be Friday. And if you want the second half of the Friday show, including any cable news producers that might be listening. That's right.

If you want to pull clips. Apparently, you don't want to miss the Friday show. That's where the, That's where the big stuff happens. BringPoint.com, become a premium subscriber there. I will say, we're definitely more casual on the Friday show. We have a lot more sort of relaxed conversations, which... Get yourselves in trouble.

Apparently, even though nobody did anything, that is worth getting anybody in trouble for the one millionth time, even though... But the nice thing about people subscribing is that you can't get in trouble. There's nobody. There is nobody that can make a phone call. that's right and be like i don't like what emily or ryan or crystal or soccer said so you need to get rid of them or griffin of course yeah well griffin just just get rid of everybody yeah just roll it solo um but no i mean at breakingpoints.com that's where you get access to the second half of that

show where we say even crazier things uh but no i think Ryan over the last week crystal mentioned this too um i'm sure we're all taking a lot of heat anybody who's who's talking publicly right now I was taking a lot of heat, even if, you know, we covered Deser Klein earlier in the show. Even if you're saying something, Anodyne is, like, political violence is not a good, not a good answer. So I just think it's important, my final thought for today's show is that it's just important to sit across from somebody who disagrees with you on the most personal, intimate, meaningful, I mean, as deep and meaningful as, like, religion with all four of us. and we sit across from each other. And even when I think, and even when you guys think, even when I think you guys and even when you guys think I am saying stuff that is

deeply wrong and dangerous, we still sit across from each other and have those conversations. And we do it because I think fundamentally you guys are good people. And I hope we all, I think we all think that of each other. And good people are capable of being wrong. Good people are capable of supporting. dangerous ideas. And I'm not saying that's true of you guys, but I'm just saying I think that's fundamentally what we do. And the basis of that is I know that you are sitting across

me as a decent human being that wants the best for your family and for people in general and for humanity. Yeah, and even if you think people are totally wrong about something, you also have to remember that people are never fixed in time. That's right. People are always on a journey. Now, Charlie Kirk's journey, whatever it was going to lead to, was cut short. That's right. buy that bullet, but those journeys, you know, should be allowed to continue. And they don't happen if you don't talk. Right. And I do genuinely think that this country would be a better place if more people will just watch this show and do politics this way. People might think that's self-interested

to say that. It's actually against self-interest because I, you know, it used to be when the YouTube podcast rankings would come out and were like pretty high up, top 30, top 20, whatever. I'd be like, wow, that's great. Now I see those ranks. I'm like, maybe we want to push down. Let's get back down around a 500 or so. I don't know if like 25 or 30 is where we want to be anymore. So it's actually against self-interest to say that more people should watch this show. But at the same time, I think it's true.

Like, I genuinely think it's better than just being fed this, like, and living in this epistemic bubble. And like a lot of liberals, I think, still think, a Groyper did this. Yeah, that's right. They did a poll, actually. There's a poll that... And they'll always think it. Yeah, maybe... Do you really want to not know what's going on in the world?

Right. Even if it makes you feel better for a moment? Yeah, and things aren't fixed in time. We do get more answers. Yeah. No, I think that's really important and it's not always... People assume that it's just sort of like... I don't know.

I mean, it's not always easy. I think we've sorted ourselves out of these bubbles a lot, but it's not always easy this across from people you just... from people you disagree with and, you know, not pop off and shout and yell because we all have, you know, strong fixed beliefs. But when you think the other person is decent, then you can. And that is just like such a gift from the show. I mean, it's just a, it is an incredible gift. I'm really grateful to you guys. So enjoy it. And grateful to everybody who supports the show because you make it possible. Thank you. Thank you. We will see you on Friday. Chris Lensager will be back here

tomorrow. Oh, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient. Still using yesterday's tech, upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, ultra-light, ultra-powerful, and built for serious productivity, with Intel core ultra-processors, blazing speed, and AI-powered performance, It keeps up with your business, not the other way around. Whoa, this thing moves.

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