Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 9/18/25: Trump Corrupt Crypto Deal, Kimmel Canceled After Trump Threats, Israel Mask Off On Gaza

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Krystal and Saagar discuss Trump corrupt crypt for chips deal, Kimmel canceled after Trump threats, Israel mask off on Gaza takeover.   Robert Malley BOOK: https://www.amazon.com/Tomorrow-Yesterday-Pursuit-Israel-Palestine/dp/0374617120   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Visit apple.c.o forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. So this is an extraordinary development that I really wanted to make sure to get in the show,

even though there's so much going on. The New York Times did an investigation into this deal that was cut. We can put this up on the screen involving Steve Whitkoff here. Keep this up for a second. So the headline here is anatomy of two giant deals. The UAE got chips and the Trump team got crypto riches. So it all sort of comes back to this Sheikh Tannoon. an Emirati Royal, who's in charge of their sovereign wealth fund.

So at the same time that he was investing $2 billion in World Liberty Financial, which is the crypto company that's owned by the Whitkoff and the Trump families, at the same time, the White House decided to give the UAE something they have sought for years, which is access to the most sophisticated chips that they're looking for for AI. David Sacks also involved in brokering this deal, Sacks being Trump's AI and Crypto Tsar. So, you know, he doesn't have a direct stake in like World Liberty Financial, but he has a stake in this industry more broadly and stands to potentially benefit from this deal as well. So let me read you some of the details here and forgive me for going along, but I want

to make sure people understand why, how this went down and what the New York Times is asserting. So they say in May, Steve Wittkoff's son, Zach, announced the first. of the deals at a conference in Dubai, one of Sheikh Tannoon's investment firms would deposit $2 billion into World Liberty Financial, a cryptocurrency startup founded by the Whitkoffs and the Trumps. Two weeks later, the White House agreed to allow the UAE access to hundreds of thousands of the world's most advanced and scarce computer chips, a crucial tool in the high-stakes race to dominate artificial intelligence. Many of the chips would go to G-42.

That is a sprawling tech firm controlled by that same. Despite national security concerns, the chips could be shared with China, those negotiations involve another key White House official with ties to the tech industry in the Middle East. That would be David Sachs. So they have a quick summary here. They say, okay, so number one, Steve Whitkoff advocated to give the Emirates access to those chips at the same time that they were landing that crypto investment. Number two, Sachs being a key figure in the chip negotiations, raising alarm even from some Trump

administration officials who believed it was improper for a working venture capitalist to help broker these deals that could benefit his industry. Number three, a senior executive based in the UAE worked simultaneously for World Liberty and for the Shakes Company G-42, creating a direct link between those two companies while the Emirates were pushing to gain this access to the AI chips. And finally, some Trump administration officials who were trying to limit that chips deal were fired after Laura Lumer jumped in and said, you know, these people, are undermining you and they need to be pushed out. So listen, even putting aside whether you think they should have access to these chips or not have access to the chips or whatever, people deserve

to feel like foreign policy, especially significant national security decisions are being made on behalf of the country and not in the interest of Trump and his shady crypto deals. His net worth has exploded during this presidency, exploded. I saw a figure that, you know, it's hard to tell exactly, but the bulk of his net worth has now been acquired since he regained the presidency. And a lot of it, Sauger, comes back to these crypto investments. I mean, they are such a clear-cut vessel for the most brazen corruption you can possibly imagine. And then when you loop in Steve Whitkoff, who has been, you know, at the center of deals with, you know, trying to negotiate with Israel and Hamas, with Ukraine, with Iran. I'm sure there are many more instances that

could go on and on, and he also is involved in the crypto stuff. This is just, I mean, it's like world historic out in the open, brazen corruption, and it's insane. Well, especially on the Trump side, because, you know, I knew David a little bit before he was in the White House. David is basically a libertarian on these issues. Like he has a tweet out today about why NVIDIA and all of those people should be allowed to sell into China. This is like consistent with his worldview. What I think is very egregious is the Whitkoff deal where you have the UAE invest. Remember, also, it's really not just Whitkoff. It's Jared Kushner and it's all these other people too. Steve Mnuchin, his former secretary, the Saudis, the UAE, all these other people have pumped money

into their firms specifically for this to also then get more beneficial deals. What's crazy is that with a World Liberty Financial deal involves the Trump family and directly is linked to their overall net worth. So that's the question. I mean, even they talk about Laura Lumer, One of the people that I believe that was after here was David Fythe. If you don't know what Fythe, the last name is here in Washington, it's a scare the shit out of you. It's by Douglas Fyth. I believe that's David's his father, who it was one of the chief architects of the war in Iraq. So, you know, I'm not crying any tears here.

I'm not really sure why he's in the NSC in the first place. Well, I think he was in the first Trump administration. He does. And he's been a China Hawk. I mean, back when that was like a hallmark of Trumpianism, now that's been sort of, you know, that's done. He served in the State Department in the first term, as you said, under China. So look, we could debate that. I don't think anyone, it's like the Bush family.

You know, they shouldn't be in politics anymore. But the question always comes back to the appearance of corruption. And that's where Trump himself has just opened the door to a historic degree, one to which, with these crypto deals in particular, like every once in a while, we check in. And it's just shocking, like in his very first week in office. I remember, you know, they asked him about his net worth. the reporter was like, I believe that you're worth several billion dollars more today. And he's like, oh, really? That's great news. Well, this time he bristled at a new question about it and, in fact,

threatened because the journalist was Australian, to report that reporter to the Australian government. Let's take a listen. A president in office should be engaged in so much business activity. Well, I'm really not. My kids are running the business. I'm here. You know what, the activity? Where are you from? I'm from the Australian Broadcast, the Corporation, Hawthorne and Program. Well, the Australians, you're hurting Australia right? In my opinion, you are hurting Australia very much right now. And they want to get along with me. You know, your, your leader is coming

over to see me very soon. I'm going to tell them about you. You set a very bad tone. Go ahead, John. You can set a nice way. When the UAE doesn't deal, what is it? Quiet. Quiet. And I will be, what did he say? I will be reporting you to the, you are hurting Australia very much right now. I will tell this, I will tell about this to your leader. He goes, excuse me. And he says, be quiet. So that's scary, man. By the way, they don't have free speech in Australia. As we all saw during COVID. So good luck. I don't have free speech here, apparently. I don't do segue into the next segment. But I mean, yeah, he's, listen, we don't know the half. We don't know the half. I mean, we don't know who's funneling money into the crypto. This is the equivalent of in the first

administration, there was the Trump Hotel. Everybody knew if you wanted to get in good with Trump. Like, if you're the Saudi delegation, you're going to come, you're going to stay in a big block of rooms. You're going to spend lots of money at the Trump Hotel. Okay, that was terrible. That was brazen corruption on its face as well. Yes. That does not hold a candle to what we're talking about here. Billions of dollars, that's what we're talking about here in order to secure your chips or get your goodies, whatever it is.

And it's, you know, this one has been revealed. but there are so much more under the surface. You recall, he had that contest out of the biggest crypto investors would get to have dinner with him and be able to bend his ear about whatever it is. And since he has taken such a heavy hand and was willing to punish you, if you get crosswise with him, he'll let your deals go through,

if you bring your gold bar to proffer to him in the Oval Office and pay the proper homage. And I was thinking about we never, I think, even covered that they had that tech dinner and Zuckerberg was there and he got asked that question. He got asked this question of like, oh, well, how much are you investing in the U.S.? And he was like, oh, 500 billion dollars or whatever. And then you hear him on a hot mic like to Trump, oh, I didn't know how much you wanted me to say. Like they are all just doing whatever they can to kiss the ring of the king and get in good with him. And so in that kind of

environment. What, you think these corporate chieftains and heads of foreign heads of state, you think they have any qualms or scruples about just paying off Trump? Of course not. Of course they don't. So it's no wonder that his net worth has skyrocketed primarily because of this crypto coin, which obviously, you know, crypto, in my opinion is just like a meaningless pyramid scheme. But if you can get people to just pump in money, pump in money, pump in money, he's going to make out like abandon and sell our country down the river. for his own wealth and riches. Yeah, that's, it's pretty scary, especially here.

And, you know, there's only a few people actually really digging into it because this, this New York Times thing took a lot of time. I do want to shout out Coffee Zilla. He does a lot of good job about, like, looking at, there's this more recent case. I don't know if you saw this where there was a major donation given to Trump and then somebody hired Pam Bondi's brother as their attorney and then just got a dismissal, you know, in the case against them. Yeah.

That's apparently how it all works now. It's sickening. Yeah. And he's suing the New York Times at this report. He's suing the New York Times as well over, you know, separate issues. Like, and this, again, this will transition us to our next block here about Jimmy Kimmel ultimately getting canceled. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos.

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influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say like go you go blank yourself, right?

It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering. you and just like walk the other way avoidance is easier ignoring is easier denial is easier drinking is easier yelling screaming is easy complex problem solving meditating you know takes effort listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts all right some major breaking news over now ABC Disney has officially pulled late night host Jimmy Kimmel's show, quote, indefinitely after remarks about Charlie Kirk. So we thought that

we would start here with the actual comments themselves so that we can prejudge it. We could talk about that. And then the extraordinary action that has since followed where it appears that the government, the FCC, put tremendous pressure on ABC News, on Disney, on ABC affiliates, including potentially saying that they would block mergers in order to compel this extraordinary action. So with that, let's actually start with the comments. Let's see what Jimmy Kimmel himself said. We had some new lows over the weekend with the Maga Gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything

they can to score political points from it. In between the finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half staff, which got some criticism. but on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this. I condolences on the lawmaker friend, Charlie Kirk. May I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir? I think very good. And by the way, right there, you see all the trucks?

They've just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty. Yes. He's at the fourth stage of grief, construction. Demolition, construction. This is not how an adult grieves the murder of somebody called a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish, okay?

Okay, so that was the segment. What everybody in particular was very upset with him over was he said, MAGA tried desperately to convince people that the shooter was not one of them. I mean, obviously, given what we know about the text messages and some of the potential motivation, or at the very least does not appear as if the Tyler Robinson was, quote, one of them. So, yeah, does Jimmy look stupid for that comment?

Yes. Are you allowed to be stupid in this country? Yes. Are you allowed to be wrong in this country? Presumably, yes. This ignited a massive witch hunt online, and which led to pressure in several different areas. And that's why I want to be careful about how I describe them. First and foremost was on the affiliates of ABC, which air Jimmy Kimmel's show.

Now, there was some indication prior to the comments of the FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr about ABC and about Jimmy Kimmel that they were going in that direction. So that was some genuine business pressure where people who were ABC affiliates who air Kimmel's show were upset with what he said. They have markets and conservative areas and they said, hey, Disney, we may be pulling this. But that did not lead to the Disney actual decision. What led to the decision was an extraordinary comment here by the FCC commissioner who appeared. right before the news broke, actually, on Benny Johnson's show, and laid it out very specifically, quote, we can do this the easy way or the hard way about both Next Star, which is a company, which is ABC affiliates, and airs much of Kimmel, and on ABC and Disney.

Here is what the FCC commissioner, Brendan Carr, had to say, D3, guys, let's play it. Frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. these companies can find ways to change conduct to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC. Again, there's actions that we can take on licensed broadcasters. And frankly, I think that it's really sort of past time that a lot of these licensed broadcasters themselves push back on Comcast and Disney and say, listen, we are going to preempt. We are not going to run Kimmel anymore until you straighten this out because we, we licensed broadcaster, are running the possibility of fines or license revocation from the FCC if we continue to run content that ends up being a pattern of news distortions.

Okay, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. And it is almost moments literally after that interview aired that ABC announced that it would indefinitely pull the Jimmy Kimmel show. So we've shown you the comments. We've shown you the FCC commissioner. And I've also contextualized for all of you that there was some genuine business reaction from ABC affiliates. Now, there are various different definitions and fights that are all happening here.

It's a question about whether this was a government-compelled action to censor Jimmy Kimmel. I think it is unambiguous, given what the FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr said, that it is a textbook definition of job owning. For people who don't know what that term is, it kind of originated in the 1960s, and the idea is that public pressure and statements from the government itself are used as a matter to compel private business assets. action. In this case, the FCC Commissioner Brennan Carr has tremendous power, not only over ABCN Disney, but also over this Next Star organization. So for context, last month, the Next Star Media

Group, which is the largest owner of these local TV stations in the U.S., announced its intention to purchase its largest rival called Tegna. This was a $6.2 billion acquisition. NextStar needs the approval of the FCC, and it needs the FCC to specifically lift its own rules. of a 39% cap on the number of households. One company is permitted to reach through a television station ownership. FCC Commissioner Brennan Carr in May suggested his mind was open to repealing this limit.

However, it, of course, leads to his own discretion. Right. So Next Star was already under pressure, it appears, and had to give something to the FCC. And this was a very easy way to do that, which ultimately led to Jimmy Kimmel being canceled there by ABCD. news, or sorry, by ABC and Disney, which is, I mean, look, guys, this is one of the largest

media conglomerates in the world. All right, let's be very clear. And the fact is, is that they caved to this specifically, I believe, because of the FCC's statements. Yeah. I just don't see, personally, how unless all the vast majority of the affiliates came out and said we won't air it, then they would do it. And by the way, if that's how it happened, it's a very different story because that's a business decision. Look, on Jimmy Kimmel, I haven't watched his show and probably I don't know. The last time he went viral for me is when I was in college on those Matt Damon videos, you know? I mean, there was a long, long time ago, or the man show. Like, that is the only reference I have for Jimmy Kimmel when he was dating like Sarah Silverman.

That's it. That's all I got. I know nothing else about the guy. I'm pretty sure his ratings were a disaster. In a decade, there's almost certainly he would not be on the air. But it is very obvious that this is a result of FCC, pressuring, job-owning, et cetera, a textbook definition of the case. And the fact is, is, you know, a lot of people are trying to cope and be like, oh, it was a business decision. I'm like, well, then they should have let it play out to see if it was actually a business decision. It's like, no, it wasn't a business decision. It was clearly as a result of government pressure. So that's the full context that everybody needs for this story. And I believe that if you put all those facts together, it's an inescapable conclusion

what happened here. Yeah, I mean, the timeline is, Jimmy makes his comments. is, you know, a firestorm online, a backlash about his comments. Brendan Carr comes out and says, we can do this the easy way or the hard way, calls directly on affiliate owners like NextStar to pull the program. Next Star is looking to get their merger approved and requires the approval of Brendan Carr, and lo and behold, they come out and say, oh, we are going to, we are going to do what you would like, Commissioner, we are going to pull that program, and ABC under pressure decides, and by the way, how weak of them, but, you know, this is where we are.

How many media organizations have we seen Cave at this point to Trump being threats? And that is the broader context, too, is that this is like not even close to the first attack on the First Amendment, the first attempt to quash any sort of dissent with regards to the media. You know, Ryan and Emily were just covering yesterday the mass consolidation of everybody, CBS, possibly CNN, TikTok, already Twitter is owned by a Trump ally under the hands of direct Trump allies who also have. to be extremely, you know, pro-Zionist and anti-Palestine. So you have that broader context, too, that you have to consider. We also have, we can put D6B up on the screen. In case you had any question about where this decision-making came from.

One ABC insider told Rolling Stone, quote, they were pissing themselves all day. And hours leading up to the decision to pull Kimmel, two sources familiar, say senior execs at ABC, Disney, and affiliates, convened emergency meetings to figure on how to minimize the damage. Multiple executives felt that Kimmel had not actually said anything over the line, the two sources say, but the threat of Trump administration retaliation bloomed. So it wasn't a grassroots cancellation effort and, oh, his ratings are bad anyway,

so let's just go ahead and pull the plug. They explicitly say the executives had no issue with what he said, and they were worried about the Trumpian administration. retaliation threats. When you have Brendan Carr out there saying we can do this the easy way or the hard way, it just becomes completely undeniable what is going on here.

And guys, for me, you know, Sagar can speak for himself, it's a dark moment. It's a dark moment. Like I said, it's not like this is the first thing I mentioned before the lawsuit against the New York Times, which also just happened, I believe, this week. But when you have so many corporations just completely capitulating,

when you have these types of brazen, illegal threats being made out in the open over, I mean, yeah, it was a dumb comment. I mean, this is like not remotely, even close to anything that's, like, wildly offensive or over the line. Like, it's not even borderline to me. It's crazy. And probably the part Trump liked the least was the legitimate joke about, like, this guy who's supposed to be so close to you just died and you can't even spend two sentences talking about him before you're on your construction project.

In addition, Trump had threatened Kimmel before and predicted that he would be, quote, the next to go. We can put D2 up on the screen. Everybody is saying, I was solely responsible for the firing of Stephen Colbert from CBS late night. That is not true. The reason he was fires a pure lack of talent. Fact, this deficiency was costing CBS $50 million a year in losses. It was only getting worse. Next up will be an even less talented Jimmy Kimmel.

And then a weak and very insecure Jimmy Fallon. the only real question is who will go first show business and television very simple business if you get ratings you can say or do anything if you don't you'll always become a victim colbert became victim to himself the other two will follow so he says there he predicts that next up will be jimmy kimmel and then lo and behold they find a pretext to put pressure on kimmel to put pressure on abc and to cause his removal as well and i have no doubt that the other two remaining late night hosts are going to be next because Trump is saying that outright. He is predicting that outright. And, you know, some of the copesogger that I've seen is like, okay, well, these are mainstream institutions. They suck anyway. You know, people are moving away from them anyway. The ratings suck, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, guys, if you think, if, like, Disney can't stand up to the Trump administration, what you think we have a chance? Like, any independent media outlet. You're dead. I mean, they quash us like a bug in a heartbeat the minute that they decide to.

We know Charlie Kirk, who is as close aligned with, was as close aligned with the Trump administration as you could possibly be, even he was coming under pressure because he, you know, had some qualms about the Iran strikes and was not 100 million percent towing the line on Israel, like, just even allowing some other voices in. He was under tremendous pressure. Like, this is a incredibly dark landscape. And the hypocrisy point goes, I mean, I'm sick of saying it at this point. But some of the same, Brennan Carr himself was out there.

You can go and back and look at his Twitter timeline and his tweet after tweet about jawboning, about government censorship, about free speech, about how the government shouldn't have been in, you know, the Twitter files and how the government shouldn't have been involved, blah, blah, blah, like this is so far beyond anything. And we objected to the things the Biden administration did, by the way. This is so far beyond anything that they did. It is in a completely different category. And look, there's Brendan Carr completely turning.

on a dime now that he has power because he knows the assignment. If he is going to stay in that position and keep his title and keep his power, he is going to operate the way Donald Trump wants him to operate. And that is what this is. It's terrifying, honestly. It's just like we were, I was thinking back, you remember the day after Charlie was shot, we did our, I was killed, we did our show. It was on 9-11. And in the reminder of what it was like at that time, Bill Maher, who I'm not a fan of, you know, I don't think that's a secret to anybody. He was on a show called Politically Incorrect, and he said something about how actually the 9-11 hijackers were not cowards because it actually took a lot of courage to, like, fly

themselves into a building. He was immediately canceled off of the air, almost exactly what, some 24 years to the day. That happened on September 17th, 2001. And in the very similar context, Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, went on the White House podium and said that people should be careful about what they say on TV. That is literally the only precedent I can think of for something like this. That is not where I want to be again. And in fact, like you said about the hypocrisy, what makes this worse for me in particular is that, okay, so why did you come on all of, why did you go on Glenn Greenwald's show?

Why did you tweet about censorship, about jawboning, and recognize the grave threats of government censorship? Like, for example, when the Biden White House is pressuring the original Twitter to cancel Alex Berenson for spreading what he, you know, for anti-COVID vaccine views, I objected to that. When the FBI was asking Twitter to take down, you know, election, quote, denial posts or whatever, I thought it was outraged. That is nothing compared to this. Like, this is a completely other level. And also, I see a lot of liberals, Dan Fiver, I just saw his tweet, where he's like, cowardly,

Disney. To be honest, what are you supposed to do? Disney is a shareholder-driven, has a fiduciary responsibility to make money. They are a massive media conglomerate. This is part of the reason it's always sucked that these people even own news organizations. Imagine, you know, they have Disney Shanghai. Trump can destroy them. He can literally just cancel the visas or whatever if they want to for the amusement park business. Or they can mess up their broadcast license. or, I mean, I could go on forever. It's a massive conglomerate. Think about Harvard University or CBS News, Paramount, everything.

I mean, the totality of the government's power is such that if it's going to be used in this, the biggest people can't stand up and neither can the smallest. Nobody really has anything to say in the face of this. Like, it's not possible. That's why you were saying, like, you can be quashed. Yes, you actually can. Like, that is the reality. And we had some binding organized, you know, binding organized norms, but, like, the truth is, is like, does it matter if it's going to happen anyways? No, it really doesn't.

Right. And the courts aren't going to save you. Look at the Supreme Court. They've given him everything he's wanted, practically everything he's wanted. You know, they'll just use the shadow docket to push it down the road, let him get away with it. So many of these news organizations have already been. And I want to emphasize the broader landscape here. You now have these massive conglomerates in the hands of Trump allies. We're talking about CBS, likely in the future CNN, they're trying to buy. You're going to have HBO. So John Oliver. You know, for those of you who are John Oliver fans and obviously he's very critical of Trump and does effectively like some investigative reporting, you know, that could be in danger. You have the, you have the TikTok sale into the hands of the same family will be involved with that. And then you have, and by the way, there's already censorship on TikTok. I was just reading this morning now that they have this like IDF sensor installed there as well. And you have Twitter already in the hands of Elon Musk. I mean, this really is, like, textbook what Orban did, in Hungary, you threaten and cajole the media organizations that your allies don't directly own so that they bend the knee.

And then you have allies who are in charge, who run these other giant conglomerates that just basically become like state media. And that's where we are. That is where we are. It's like, it's not coming. It's not a threat. Like, we are here. And it's extremely dark. It is extremely dark.

You know, to your point about, well, what could they do? I mean, I just, I think, listen, I do think it's cowardly for, you know, these companies. But I also am under no illusions. Like, you know, I'm the leftist. I understand where capital is bred as butter. They're never going to save you from fascism. You can't rely on them for that. The best you could do is have counterpressures so that they feel like, okay, well, I know what the cost is for going against Trump.

Is there going to be a cost for bending to Trump, right? Is there going to be a cost in viewership? Is there going to be a cost from my workers? Is there going to be costs from a future potential Democratic administration to try to change the calculus? But you can't rely on them to be heroes here. That's never going to happen. Yeah, that's why I just think I love this. Like, oh, Disney's.

I'm like, no. Like, here's a thing. Again, what are you supposed to do? Like, you want to invite massive legal pressure from the U.S. government over one of the most regulated businesses in the world, which is network television. Be real here. I'm just, look, it's the same when we thought earlier. Remember the George Stephanopoulos case that they settled.

CBS News and others where Trump would sue these media. Or they do it for a reason because the government can crush you. Like, that's just the reality. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country.

Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel good? demoralized. I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith. But there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe in. To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to the moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for like kind of two years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with

other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills, and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, It's easier to punch someone in the face.

When you think about emotion regulation, like, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say, like, go you, go blank yourself, right? It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer.

It's easy to ignore, to suppress, seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just, like, walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials is easier. drinking is easier, yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort.

Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This government has demonstrated their willingness to use every facet of government to destroy you, to, you know, block your deals and, you know, deny your visas or, you know, put, just put you on blast. and, you know, create some news cycle around how terrible you are. Like, they will do anything to get their way. And, you know, this is one of the, this is such a clear-cut dire example. Because, again, listen, like the joke, it wasn't even, it was stupid, right? It was stupid. It was also literally not true.

Like, it was factually incorrect about the- Fine. Issue of correction. Like, that's the way that goes. And then at the same time, yeah, I mean, let's not also be precious about this. Like Ted Cruz was out there lying about Melissa. Hortman's killer and what their political affiliation was. I seem to recall when Mike Lee was out there joking about the guy who tried to murder Paul Pelosi and beat him over the head with a hammer and fractured his skull. So, you know, like, let's not be precious about the way everybody

is trying to characterize these political attempted assassins and killers. Yeah, I think was Mike Lee, did he do the, I thought he made a joke. I don't think it was about Paul Pelosi. I think it was about the. Hortman? Yeah, it was, he said something like nightmare on Wall Street. Well, there were a ton, there were, yeah, thank you for the correction. I don't want to also be wrong. And I was going to say, be canceled. I'm doing this to cover our own asses. But there were plenty of on the right who thought it was hilarious and made up all kinds of lies about the lunatic who came to try to kidnap Nancy Pelosi and instead beat Paul Pelosi over the head with a hammer. You can certainly go back and take a look at that. But, you know,

we all know what this is about. Trump set him in his sights. He said Jimmy Kimmel is next. And the moment they had a pretext, Brennan Carr comes out, threatens them, threatens Next Star, and do we have what Sinclair has decided they're going to do? Sinclair says that Kimmel's suspension is not enough, calls on FCC and ABC to take additional action. Sinclair's ABC stations to air a special in remembrance of Charlie Kirk during Jimmy Kimmel's live time slot on Friday.

As discussed with ABC earlier today, Sinclair decided to indefinitely preempt Jimmy Kimmel live beginning today. Following these discussions, ABC has suspended production of Jimmy Kimmel, Kimmel Live. They go on and say that special ABC stations will air a special in remembrance of Charlie Kirk this Friday during Jim and Kimmel's live slot. The special will also air across all Sinclair stations this weekend. In addition, Sinclair is offering the special to all ABC affiliates across the country. Sinclair will not lift the suspension of Jimmy Kimmel live on our stations until formal discussions are held with ABC and their commitment to professionalism in accountability.

They also called on Kimmel to issue a direct apology to the Kirk family. Furthermore, we asked Mr. Kimmel to make a meaningful personal donation to Charlie Kirk family and to the Turning Point USA. So we're trying to compel a personal donation from Jimmy Kimmel to Turning Point USA and the Kirk family directly and airing a Charlie Kirk special in lieu of Jimmy Kimmel. Like it's unreal. We can put the fire. There's always been one of those concerns. They are right wing. Yeah. And Next Star is too, by the way. Isn't that the one that Alex Acosta is on the board of? No, that's Newsmax, I think. Well, I need to look at the different. Next Star. News Nation is owned by Next Star. Yes, which also owns our former employer. The Hill. Thank God. Yes. You guys want to see how nice it is not to be. Imagine trying

to cover this. Imagine trying to cover this while working over there. By the way, this is reality. Like, how's ABC News going to cover this shit? They're owned by Jimmy Kimmel or owned by Disney. They will be quaking in their boats. Every one of them. You can't say anything. Also, yeah. And your company has made it clear. They're not going to stand up for you. You're on your How is CNN going to cover it? CNN is literally about to get bought potentially, or at least there's an all-cash offer out there by the Ellison family, to buy WBD, Warner Brothers Discovery, which is the parent company of CNN. So what are they going to say? Because if you say something, you're probably going to get ax if you get bought. And then on the other channel over on Fox News, oh, yeah, Fox has no problems whatsoever, the FCC, right? Or, of course, they'll get a free pass potentially under this administration. Brennan Carr went on with Sean Hannity last night to brag about all of it. I mean, they're taking credit for it. Like, that's the thing is you can't delude yourself. They are taking credit for it. When the news came out, Brennan Carr replied to a reporter with like a victorious

emoji. I mean, it's just like it's undeniable what is going on here. And they want people to know. They want media companies to know that this was them, that they did it. We can put D7 up on the screen. This is the reaction from fire. They said the government pressured agencies. and ABC cave, the timing of ABC's decision on the heels that FCC chairmen's pledge to the network to do this the easy way or the hard way tells the whole story. Another media outlet withered under government pressure ensuring that the administration will continue to extort exact retribution on broadcasters and publishers who criticize it. We cannot be a country where late-night talk show hosts serve at the pleasure of the president, but until institutions grow a backbone

and learn to resist government pressure, that is the country we are. So there you go. And last piece here, you know, like this is just the beginning of the threatened crackdown. We can put D8 up on the screen. Trump says, I'm pleased to inform our many USA patriots. I'm designating Antifa, a sick, dangerous, radical left disaster as a major terrorist organization. I'll also be strongly recommending those funding. Antifa be thoroughly investigated in accordance with the highest legal standards and practices. He did something similar to this in his first term. Antifa is not actually a real thing. Like, it's not like an organization, the way that you typically think of organizations. Antifacism is an ideology of opposing fascism. And then there's, you know, Antifa's

associated with like a series of confrontational tactics, but it's not like a real thing. So, you know, remains to be seen what actual impact this has because he did try to do the same thing the first time. But as was predicted, they are using the assassination of Charlie Kirk to further crushed dissent, punish their political opponents, and consolidate power. That's what he does. If it wasn't this, it would be something else. But this, you know, has provided also, like, a very heated emotional climate in which to try to do these things.

And, you know, that's, that's where we are. This is the first, like, clear-cut action under this new, it's not new, but an escalation of the previous tactics of the Trump administration to use any sort of. crisis emergency or invented crisis or emergency to crush dissent and consolidate power. And that's where we are. Yeah, this is literally, I mean, I just looked it up. It's September 18th, 2025. 24 years and one day to the day since Bill Maher was canceled on politically incorrect under pressure from the Bush administration. And let me say to, like his thing was more provocative. I don't defend him being fired. So here's what he said. It was definitely more provocative than this.

But here's the thing. This is what I've come to take away. The worst thing that happened, I saw a really insightful tweet where when Tucker recently said something about Bin Laden and somebody was like, oh, Tucker would have been the guy today who would have interviewed bin Laden after 9-11. And someone said, can you imagine how different history would have been as someone had interviewed bin Laden after 9-11? And that's really stuck with me. Because the fact is, is that the inability to discuss, to talk, and to be, to have to have any fulsome about foreign policy or about the reasons that that happened led to the war in Iraq. It led to, you know, the disastrous 20-year experiment in Afghanistan. It destroyed, bankrupted the entire country, not to mention all of the downstream consequences and millions of lives, you know, that were killed. Here's what Bill Maher said. He said, quote, we have been cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits a building. Say what you want about it. It's not cowardly. And I mean, look, that is a crazy thing to say. But what is the crux of what he's trying to say, is that U.S. military adventurism has led to

blowback, right? That was the theory that was put forth by leftists and libertarians after the immediate aftermath of 9-11. And then when the Gen Z Z zoomers rediscovered the bin Laden letter, they were like, wait, this wasn't just because they, quote, hated us for our freedoms. Some of them did, okay? Some of them actually did. They were crazy. Some of them were used, like in political terrorism ideology would use legitimate grievances to say that is why an indictment of the American people. But imagine if we'd actually had that type of conversation, and that's exactly why his cancellation and the eventual praise by the Bush administration was a tone of how things were then to come when in 2002, when we all start talking about yellow cake uranium and cheerily, and we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud that we invade the country of Iraq. Like, you may think I'm exaggerating.

I watched all this shit happen in my entire life. The only reason I'm here is to fight against it. So to see it happen again, I don't know. It's sick. Yeah. It really is sick. It's, it really is. I think that's the best way to put it. All right, we've got a really insightful guest standing by. I just wrote a book on the failures of the attempted peace process between the Israelis and the Palestinian, so let's get to that. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant man. generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country.

Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith, and that's what I believe in. To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way. way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network

on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel obviously. very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories,

such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills. I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone

in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it, if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say like, go you go blank yourself, right? It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore, to suppress, seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like walk the other way.

Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials is easier. Drinking is easier. Yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are extremely fortunate to be joined this morning by Robert Malley. He served in senior Middle East positions in the administrations of President Clinton, Obama, and Biden. who's president and CEO of the International Crisis Group, author of a new book, Tomorrow is Yesterday, Life, Death, and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel, Palestine, along with his co-author Hussein Aga, and he joins us now.

Great to have you, sir. Great being here. Yeah, of course. So just talked us a little bit about why you wanted to write this book in this moment, which really details the even failed conception of the Oslo process and, you know, the peace negotiations that you were a part of. And of course, the broader context here is this book comes at a moment when, you know, the international consensus is truly formed that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza against the

Palestinian people. Right. So we started from a premise after October 7th looking at what was happening and looking at it from the Palestinian perspective, it's all a reenactment of what they've lived in the past, you know, being forced to flee their land and then forced to flee the land to which they were forced to flee and then being it struck and then being struck in a place that they were told They needed to take refuge, dispossessed, having lost everything, everything they had, all their possessions, their loved ones. But this is for them a reenactment of what they lived in 1948.

In other ways, too, in terms of not having a national movement that could back them feeling isolated or drift alone in their land. And on the Israeli side, October 7th was relived, just listened to their vocabulary. It's the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. It's another pogrom. So even the experience of the vocabulary is all things from. my generation, for Hussein's generation, which speaks to us from the past, and which is why we entitled the book to Mars yesterday, because it is hard for anyone who's lived this, who's seen this, who's witnessed this, not to think we've been here before in the way, in how Israelis

and Palestinians are living their struggle, the communal existential struggle between two peoples, and in terms of the vocabulary that's being used. And so the question is, what happened? How could we have had 30 years of a peace process led by the United States where the United States was the sole superpower and presidents, Clinton and Bush and Obama all said this is a priority for us, is to reach peace? And here we are, as if nothing had happened, as if that peace process had just been, you know, a fleeting a bunch of just hot air. So that's the story of this book, is that disconnect between the realities on the ground and this artificial peace process. It was designed to reach peace and did the opposite. You know, Robert, how do you reflect on that? It's been 25 years since Camp David. You were literally there. There was a lot of hope in that moment. So how do you think back on the

legitimacy of the Camp David process itself? Was it a useful exercise? What did it teach you? Well, obviously, at a personal level, I have to reflect as does Hussein, at the fact that we were both actors in a lot of these episodes. And so we were guilty of the same delusions, and even deceit that was part of this process. I mean, Camp David, the reason we spent some time in the book talking about it is that I've heard so many politicians and officials and former officials in the U.S. say, well, if only the Palestinians had said yes at Camp David, we wouldn't be here and therefore they incur responsibility, which one level is, you know, is pretty egregious

to say in any event that Palestinian people would incur the responsibility of what, as you just said, increasing number of people are calling a genocide because of something that happened. 25 years ago. But as we lay out, Pam David itself was based on a hoax, which is the fundamental misunderstanding between the two sides of what they thought the Oslo process was about for the Palestinians. They thought this was about self-determination, justice, redemption. And for Israelis, thought this was about absolute security. What they cared about was not granting Palestinian rights, but achieving security. And that sort of talking past each other with the U.S. not playing the role of really trying to mediate,

but putting its thumb on the scale. For one side, I think we could look back. Yes, it was a missed opportunity in the sense that it failed. But we were never close, contrary to what I may have believed at the time, there was no congruence between the visions of Israelis and Palestinians about where they were headed and what the conflict was about. Let's put E3 up on the screen here and bring this to the connect what you're saying to the modern day. We've got Bezilel Smotrich who just makes plain.

He describes Gaza as a potential real estate bonanza. Israel is talking with the U.S. about how to divide it up. You know, Israel has been, was given more or less a carte blanche from the Biden administration, but, I mean, truly carte blanche here with regard to the Trump administration, the number of countries they've bombed. You know, there was maximalist fringe characters getting their way in terms of, you know, as we speak, there's a ethnic cleansing. going on. There's a plan in place backed by the President of the United States to complete that

ethnic cleansing and, you know, in service of, I guess, his real estate ambitions here. So, you know, how do you view the U.S.'s role now as we come to this moment where, I mean, not only does peace not seem possible, just basic survival doesn't seem possible from the Palestinian perspective? First, I'd say, obviously, what you just showed again, an echo from the past, It's not that long ago that Israelis were talking in those terms about ridding the land of all Palestinians, greater Israel ethnic cleansing. Again, on both sides, you see really a reenactment of the past. But in terms of the U.S. role, yes, what President Trump is doing so far has been giving a court launch and enabling Israel basically to do whatever it wishes. I don't think that can make the Biden administration look much better because, frankly, what the Biden administration did was paved the way by normalizing a set of behaviors, attitudes,

whether it's the use of food as a weapon of war, whether it is indiscriminate targeting of Palestinians, all of that was done under the Biden administration with greater criticism, vocal rhetorical criticism on the part of the Biden administration, but essentially not doing anything that would stop it. So, yes, the Trump administration is making this significantly worse, but the ground was laid in the term that preceded it. Yeah, I think that's very important to say. So, Robert, in terms of how you see the future and how the U.S. should handle or, I mean, for years, as I think you're pointing to, the two-state solution was a mantra. It was a shibboleth. It's what we're doing. It's what we're working towards. The Israelis base, they don't even pretend anymore that it's a pretense of something that will exist. So in that environment, what can and should the diplomatic position of the U.S. be? It's a great question. And, you know, having, again, as I said, been part of failed attempts and attempts that were chasing. an illusion, it's hard for me to be in the position of now sort of saying, I know what to do.

I do think it's an interesting thought experiment, you know, at least to think about what the world would have been like if the U.S. had not even tried, pretend they tried to reach peace if it had stayed out, if it had not warped the playing field in a way that provided Israel with impunity and allowed Israel not to live through the consequences of its actions, convince the Palestinians that somehow the U.S. was going to rectify the vast asymmetry of power between the two sides, propped up a feckless Palestinian authority, which actually was acting as a subcontractor for Israeli security and not doing a very good job at that. And elbowing out other actors and delegitimizing other forms of activism, whether it's civil

disobedience, boycott, sanctions, international justice and accountability. So the U.S. has played in many ways a very negative role in perpetuating the status quo. So at least as a thought experiment, if the U.S. really took a time out and wasn't involved, it'd be interesting that they think of how things would evolve. Right now, I think there's only one priority. It's priority one, two, and three. It should have been those priorities under the Biden administration, which is to end the carnage that's taking place in Gaza, and everything else. We could talk about the future at some point. We could talk about, you know, whatever is happening at the U.N. in terms of recognizing a Palestinian state doesn't exist and won't exist.

But there's only one thing out, which is to stop this, which means that Israel should be put in the position where it will pay the consequence of its actions if it continues. And everything else is pure rhetoric. Does U.S. public opinion matter in this at all? Because obviously, you know, the base of the Democratic Party, I think some 80 percent see it as a genocide. They are overwhelmingly appalled at what is happening. They want to cut off funds to Israel. They want to do what it takes to end the carnage. you have some Democratic politicians who are belatedly getting on board. You had Bernie Sanders

yesterday in Rochana and Becca Ballant being the latest come forward and say, yes, this is a genocide. We accept the international consensus. Independence, by and large, there as well. And even young Republicans, I mean, this is part of, you know, the questions swirling around the pressure that was being put on Charlie Kirk, you know, in the days and weeks before he was assassinating. And I wanted to play for you this clip from Megan Kelly, who has been very, you know, very pro-Israel. You know, she's certainly pro-Zionist and largely on that side, but even she is sounding the alarm about young people and their view of Israel and the way that has shifted dramatically. This is E1, guys. Let's go ahead and play this. And let's face it, Charlie was like an unofficial spokesperson for the youth of America, in particular conservative youth.

And I don't know if people have checked, but they no longer support Israel. Everybody under 30 is against Israel. Charlie was 31. Everybody under 30, like they don't support Israel is what Megan Kelly is saying. I mean, does this matter at all? Is it too late? Does U.S. public opinion move the needle in terms of what our government is ultimately going to do and how they're going to react for the future? Oh, it's interesting.

I mean, one of the benefits of having been around for a long time is experienced. The flip side is cynicism. And so I have to check my cynicism because it's been a long time that people have said maybe that the U.S. political system will change. hasn't. I do think things are different now. And, you know, my current profession is to teach and I see students and I always think to myself, these students are going to something is going to shape their foreign policy vision about how they view America and the role that America should play in the world. For me, personally, it was the Vietnam War through my parents

who opposed it and then they wore in Iraq, which I opposed. Those were the sort of the signal of milestones in my foreign policy education. For today's generation and next generation of kids, those who are going to have positions of power in the future. It's the war in Gaza, American complicity, American enabling of, again, what increasing number of people are calling a genocide, American support for the military operations there, and it's hypocrisy. And I think all that inevitably is going to have an impact. You just mentioned it has an impact on young Democrats. And then you mentioned something equally important, which is what's happening on some of the Republican side. You mentioned some of the people there, someone like David Smith, I think he's

one of the most articulate opponents of a view of changing American policy to be more consistent with our moral compass, and at a minimum, more consistent with our interests because it's hard to see how siding with a country that is increasingly, or siding with policies of a country that are increasingly being isolated, and it's going to give rise to a generation. I hate to say this, but it's a truth. It's the truth, a generation of Palestinians and Arabs. whose only memory is going to be of what happened in Gaza, who will have nothing to lose because they've lost everything. And the hatred, of course, is going to be directed at Israel.

It's going to be directed at others in the world who didn't lift a finger. And of course, it's going to be directed at America. So it's hard to see how we are investing in anything positive for our future. And I think that's part of why you're seeing on both the Republican and Democratic side for different reasons. And they come at it from a different point of origin and they land not exactly in the same place. But both of them are questioning why the United States. States has been so one-sided in its approach towards this conflict for so long and how that possibly could serve national interests. Yeah, well said. Robert, thank you so much for joining

us. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Again, thank you all for your support. Friday show tomorrow. They'll see you then. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The Moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us father and daughter for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your.

podcast. Lauren came in. From standout speeches to the shows and stars making all of the history, my podcast, the latest with Lauren the Rosa, has your full Emmys breakdown. The wins, the surprises, the cultural impact, and what it really means for us. I'm a homeguard that knows a little bit about everything and everybody. Listen to the latest with Lauren the Rosa from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app.

You can get it at Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance,

it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robeye, and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. The new podcast from Hello Sunshine and IHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by author,

celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit apple.co-forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. This is an IHeart podcast.