Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 9/23/25: Trump H1B Mess Causes Panic, Venezuela Regime Change, Former CIA Director Praises Former Al-Qaeda Head

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Ryan and Saagar discuss Trump H1B clusterf***, Venezuela regime change, former CIA director praises former Al Qaeda leader.     To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Turning now to H-1B. It's been a hot topic on the internet and with the Trump administration now for some time. Before we even get into it, some of you may not even know what an H-1B visa is. It's kind of an interesting setup here, Ryan. And for many critics, it's what's wrong with the U.S. immigration system. For the pro-business folks,

they say it's what's great about the U.S. immigration system, but the effective way it's designed, and please correct me if you think I'm not contextualizing it properly, is that companies will have jobs, which require a certain set of skills. The precursor for being able to get an H-1B visa for your worker is that no American can do this job. So I need somebody with a specific set of skills. It's not like the 01 visa, which is like a talent visa, but I need somebody to be able to come here, the so-called best and the brightest, people who are better educated, let's say there our general population, to be able to come in and take this job. It's a win-win. They get a fast track to a green card. They get a job. While they're here, though, there are certain things

like, oh, you can't leave the job. You actually don't have rights. Because they control the visa. Because they control a visa. Right. So there's some downsize there for the employee. They're willing to take a lower wage, largely. Why? Because it's a very easy way to get residency in America. And if you're here for a certain amount of time, you get here on the H-1B visa, and then you get to the green card, and then you can go and do whatever you want. So the benefit that the companies say is the H-1B visa allows the best and the brightest of the whole world to come to America and to do all these great jobs to make our country better, they make our economy better, and it's a win-win for everybody. The critics of that, both left and right, by the way, Bernie Sanders and the hard right would say, well, it actually is exploitative because of, of what I just laid out. The company controls your wage. But second, you know, baked into the contract, not only of your lack of competition by being able to go somewhere else, which obviously

is going to reflect in the wage, but part of the wage that you accept and potentially less wage is, let's say you take $15,000 less than an American. Well, it's worth it because you're a fast-rected or green card, right? And so the argument is that it crowds out American workers, people who are native-born American citizens, or just American citizens in general, who have labor rights, right? They have the ability to contest a non-compete. They can leave whenever they want, they can accept whatever they want. They can accept whatever they want. Right, exactly. You can tell it on your boss. Right. So that's kind of like the left, right, kind of consensus from Bernie Sanders and let's say the more Trump wing of the GOP on here. The argument from the Silicon Valley guys is

this is the bread and butter of the U.S. technology industry, regardless, it became a massive culture war issue over the last nine months. And the Trump administration has really had to try to split the difference because they both want to be very pro-big business, but they don't want to be seen as open borders or pro-mass immigration or exploitative types of immigration. So they settled upon this new strategy where they're going to try and charge H-1B v. holders a one-time $100,000 application fee. So the theory behind it is that if somebody is so worth it to bring in, that you're going to have a company is going to have to pay for it. And that means that by raising the cost, that it would make it so that any American worker would now be, of course,

you know, as competitive, let's say, over the long term with that person. And it would reduce any competitive advantage that a foreign worker might be able to bring to the table. Conceptually, I think that's great. I think it's a good idea. However, let's just say that the way this was rolled out was very confusing. And so I will play it out for all of you that Trump announced a $100,000 fee. He actually announced it by Howard Lutnik as well, that it would be a rolling $100,000 fee, that it would apply retroactively to a bunch of people, that nobody would be allowed to reenter the country if they hadn't paid their $100,000 fee, potentially, you know, applying to the hundreds of thousands of people or whoever who are already here on an H-1B visa, and it was just a general chaos you can accept from this administration. So here was a rollout. One of the most abused visa systems in our current immigration system has been the H-1B non-immigrant visa program. This is supposed to allow highly skilled laborers who work in fields that Americans don't

work in to come into the United States of America. What this proclamation will do is raise the fee that companies pay to sponsor H-1B applicants to $100,000. This will ensure that the people they're bringing in are actually very highly skilled and that they're not replaceable by American workers. So it'll protect American workers but ensure that companies have a pathway

to hire truly extraordinary people and bring them to the United States. We need workers. We need workers. We need great workers. And this pretty much ensures that that's what's going to happen. I think, John, do you agree with that?

Well, they're $100,000 per year. So the whole idea is no more will these big tech companies or other big companies train foreign workers. $100,000 per year. I don't know a single employer who would pay that. It would basically end the H-1B visa system, which I would be actually okay with. But that's not what ended up happening because immediately big business freaked out and called the Trump White House, who immediately issued this clarification. Let's put this up here on the screen from press secretary, Caroline.

of it. To be clear, this is not an annual fee. It's a one-time fee that applies only to the petition. Do you remember what Howard Lutnik just said? He said per year. That's what annual means. Just I want to be clear on my terms. Annual means for a year. Okay. Second, those who already hold H-1B visas and are currently outside of the country right now will not be charged $100,000 to re-enter. The way that it was originally announced, they would have been. H-1B visa holders can leave and re-enter the country, to the same extent as they normally would, whatever ability they have to do that that is not impacted by yesterday's proclamation. Three, this applies only to new visas, not renewals, and not current visa holders. It will first apply in the next upcoming lottery cycle. So currently,

there are, according to ChatGPT, which is probably opening on is probably a big H-1B recipient. So, yeah, I'm just laying it out there. There are 730,000 people currently in the United States who hold an H-1B visa, plus an additional $550,000 dependents, spouses and children for a rough total of 1.28 to 1.3 million residents in the United States with H-1B status. The vast majority of these people work in the technology industry. This is like the bread and butter, really, of the way that they have, that they've, you know, crafted their business. Does it say how many in health care? Oh, I'll look. While you talk, I will look that up.

Yeah, so I think you're sketching out of the H-1B program is pretty accurate. The problem here, I think, is the remedy here. I think it is absolutely fair to say, and it is correct, that H-1B visa holders are exploited because of the leverage that their employers have over them. And that it allows companies then to, you know, downward pressure, wages against American workers. That has to be balanced. So this needs to be reformed. The reform I would suggest is that the H1B visa would be held by the worker himself or herself.

Right. And so. Yeah, I think that's like the O1 visa, like the talent visa. Right. And yes, yes, it's called this outstanding is what people call it. If you get an O1 visa, then you can go work anywhere. And that's how it should be because then those workers can organize with other American workers. If they don't like the job that they're in, they can go try to get a higher salary at another job.

But that pushes up wages for everybody. Then the counterargument would be, well, no, screw them. Like, we have enough American workers to do everything. What that does not understand is that we are a – and this is where I kind of separate from some left-wing nationalist types. Like, we are in a global economy. The thing, and I see this from two perspectives. One, as an American, two, as just a person in the world. Sure.

As just a person in the world, it's probably, global citizen. Global citizen, it's probably better that the U.S. commits this suicide and stops being this magnet for brains around the world. Because we do undermine a lot of other countries by pulling. Oh, you're talking about the brain drain theory. The brain drain. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, by pulling in the best doctors from Pakistan, the best engineers from India, the best engineers and software talent from China and scientists, you know, in a lot of different programs, 100% of the PhDs are foreign-born. Yes.

I think overall something like 50% of PhDs are foreign-born. They then create companies here in the United States, which gives us our competitive advantage against the rest of the world. Because this is where I differ with them. This is where the big tech guys are like, well, they come here and they form companies. I'm like, yeah, doing what? Doing NFTs? I'm like, wow, great. Thank you for increasing American GDP, all right?

So you begin filthy rich and you can buy a house in Santa Monica? All right. A lot of them work in hospitals in Kentucky. No, you're not wrong. Listen, and that's the reality of the balance. And that's why, so I have the breakdown here. In recent years, 65% of approved H-H-1Bs are for computer-related occupation. A large majority are in software engineering, systems analysis, programming.

that, the industry sector by sector kind of breaks down. But healthcare medicine and health is like four to five percent. The reason why that's important is that we have the health care exception where they immediately started putting exclusions, where the White House says that doctors may win a reprieve from the H-1B visa fee. They're like, well, if you're a doc, you know, we can make things work a little bit here. The issue also is that this is very right for corruption because the executive order says that the fees can be waived if the Secretary of Homeland Security determines that the hiring of workers on an individual basis is, quote, in the national interest.

Totally nebulous. Which means if you're Google or OpenAI or Mark Zuckerberg or any of these other people, and you're like, listen, we're in the global race on China, we got to have these H-1Bs. And it would just kill our trillion dollar bottom line to pay a measly $100,000, which we probably, you know, given stock options to each one of our staff, like every, other day, but that would just murder our bottom line if we were forced to do that. And God forbid that we were to have to hire somebody who could leave if they wanted to. So it's in the national interest. And they would be like, oh, of course it's in the national interest,

right? And so that's how you could very easily see this become, you know, like a corporate bonanza, which it already is. That's my critique. Or what will immediately develop and what I guarantee you is already developing. If you have connections with DHS, you see, you set up a lobbying slash consulting shop and you just pump them you pay me yeah and i will bribe or pay um and do do my whole swamp thing with dhs and i will like you you need a waiver yeah i got i got you i got your waiver and it also sets up more that of this um what what trump loves which is unilateral leverage over the economy and over specific companies like i want you to say good things about me i want you to fire

this reporter, I want you to, you know, buy my Bitcoin. And if you don't, then you're not, then you're paying the full freight on, on these. Yeah, it's undeniable. I also think, uh, there is a big systems question here. And, uh, I know a lot of Indian H-1BVs will be a whole, it'll be mad at me, but, uh, newsflash, I'm not actually from India. You know, you are. Uh, and that's, you know, uh, we have different, uh, we have different interests, uh, the two of us. Uh, the thing is, is that, At a system-wide level, starting with H-1B, ignores how we got here. So, like, what happened?

STEM education. All right. So why is there, because the argument is, well, there's not enough people who graduate from STEM. Why is that? You just said, well, we have a college jet crisis. We have a lack of emphasis in math science and all. There's a whole argument about how we got there and magnet schools versus public education, whatever. But the point is, is that we are where we are, where we have a talent shortage according to,

the market, if you will. Maybe that's true or not, but as you just noted, the PhD programs and all that are overrun by foreigners. Now, there's a lot of questions as to how we got there. A lot of it is that they pay full freight. You can jack up education costs. You can also, you know, the whole visa system is easily gamed by this. There's a lot of financial benefits to a university, which also allows them to continue to massively raise prices. Now, in some cases, don't get me wrong, PhDs and others, the argument they give me is, what are you talking about, you idiot, we? We don't pay them, or they don't pay us, we pay them because they come and they tutor and work as a graduate assistant or whatever. I think it's multifaceted, is all I'm saying.

I do think there's a major financial component to foreign PhD and graduate students because it's not always working that way. So that's part of the issue, is number one, we have a supply kind of problem. Number two is about this entire scheme of brain drain, like you said. And I think that was true in a bipolar world and in a universal world. Unipolar world, as in when it was U.S. versus Soviet Union and U.S. versus the rest of the world where they go, it's not really true anymore in a global, in a multipolar world. And so, look, undeniable, a ton of Indians still want to come to America. Look at the number of these applications. But also it's kind of a selection bias because India's a billion people, 1.4 billion people.

So there's, you know, 0.1% of a billion is still a shitload of people, right? Even if they all want to come over. But here's the thing, guys, the last time I went to India, a lot of these people, they don't want to come here anymore. All right? Now, a lot do, so don't get me wrong. But a lot of them are like, yeah, you know, Silicon Valley Bank or whatever's got an office here. I'm living in a pretty good life on $100,000 a year. If I go to San Diego or, you know, whatever, Santa Monica or, I'm trying to think of Northern California, San Jose, 100,000. I'm living in a shack for $100,000 a year. Why would I do that? Right? You know, we have the internet. Sometimes I have to work nights. Yeah, it sucks, but whatever. that's part of living in a global economy. A lot of the new Indian graduates and kind of like my parents of today, I don't know if they would come here. Quality of life, it's not bad. They have widespread, you know, 5G internet access.

They're a rising nation with their own hopes and dreams. It's not like the communist problems of the 1970s and stagnation. And I'm just saying, you know, all right? So for them, they're like, look, we have this new nation. We have this new national project. And I'm just laying out India, which is a huge part of the H-1B process. Again, still a lot of them still want to come here. I don't want to diminish that.

But I don't think if you just stop the average Indian, highly educated Indian on the street today, all of them. Maybe in the 1970s, all of them would have said, I want to come to the West. Now, maybe it's 50-50, but that's a lot. Then China is another part of the story. First of all, the Chinese government doesn't want these people to leave anymore. They're like, you're not going anywhere. It's like 10 to 15%. Right.

It's like 10 to 15%. But my point is just that the Chinese government now, it's not. 1990s China, right? It's 2025 China. They've got jobs for them here. Right, they have plenty of jobs. In fact, you're going to live a great quality of life. We'll give you the best car. You're going to get a great salary. You know, you have all the... Your quality of lives is good.

Yeah, you know, you can't say anything about Tiananmen Square or whatever, but who cares, right? We're living a good life here. Here you just can't something about Charlie Carr. Right. Yeah, there go. Okay. But the point is just that if you look at it in all of these different countries, Brazil, I'm trying

to think, you know, I wouldn't put Russia on the list, considering what's happening here, but South Korea, Japan, Nigeria, Singapore. Nigeria is a bit different. I still think a lot of them, last time I checked the immigration stats and all that were a little bit different. But you have rising economies, and in a more multipolar world, the attractiveness of coming to the, it's not the dream that it once was, is really the way I would put it. And in fact, I mean, especially in Asia, the infrastructure there is 10 times better than it is over here. So you're kind of like, really? Like, I want to give up quality of life for this? I mean, yeah, you make a lot of money on paper, but you kind of live like shit,

you know, compared to anybody who's in Singapore, for example. I just think that that part of the brain drain conversation also has to be acknowledged here. And look, it's tough because, you know, entering into multipolarity, what you really want is competitiveness in and of itself. But you also want, like, a strong nation. And I think part of the H-1B system, as it is, is kind of the worst of 1990s theories of most favored nation status and, you know, oh, it's just all about GDP, GDP, GDP, and I think it's great for business. It's great for stocks. I don't think it's all that great for workers. I definitely don't think it's good for Americans. I broadly think it's largely exploitive. Yeah. No, that's why I think it changes everything if you let the worker, you let the

worker have the visa, let the worker actually have freedom when they're here. But despite all, Despite how well things are going in a lot of these other countries, we still do have, despite the Trump administration's best efforts, a university system that is at the envy of the world. And if you are one of the best and brightest high school students around the world, like for a lot of those people, if they can get into an American college, they want to do it. And then as much as I trash this country, a lot of people love it. There's a lot of cool things about it. People get here and they're like, this is actually like, yeah, It has a lot of buses. This is a pretty nice place to live. Yes. And it is just undeniable that if you are a country where the smart people from around the world want to move to and make a home here, overall, whether, you know, some of them are going to do stupid NFT stuff and rip off dumb Americans, overall, they're going to make a more

competitive and richer country. That's still the GDP argument. That's where I fall on it. is that that what we have shown that it could be true, let's say in the 1950s, right, where you bring the breast and the brightest of Germany and use it to build a great industry, but you also have some redistributive

and more of a balanced economy. Right, to build some combines and some nice rockets. Who cares where the research came from, took us to the moon, right? You know, it's just not talking about that little part there. But my point is just that, you know, it can be done in a better structured economy. I don't see the evidence for that today. I mean, you know, we just cover that story about bottom-tier workers, $100,000 or less,

basically spending, you know, the top 10% are spending 50% of all consumer spending. And, you know, we can have that story on the very same day that I was just looking yesterday. Open, this is the story of the U.S. stock market. NVIDIA announced a $100 billion investment into OpenAI. NVIDIA's stock then went up by 150 billy. So what's going on here? It's like circular money, you know? It's like, like this.

That goes to my other argument that the whole world would be better off if we just collapsed. This whole thing is just utterly ridiculous. And your thing, it reminds me, have you heard that poem? It's something like Werner von Braun. He sends the rockets up. He doesn't know where they come down. Yeah, definitely not in London. That's right.

Who are supposed to say? And, yeah, but that, my point about the NVIDIA, the GDP, you know, the whole competitiveness thing, I really did use to believe that. And of course, it's still true to a certain extent. But we can't pretend that in a world where 50% of consumer spending is in the top 10%, that any of this S&P 500 nonsense matters to 90% of the consuming public, right? It's about the basic electricity costs and all that. And for them, I'm not so sure I see the H-1B benefit. And so it should be reformed, but definitely not in the trouble being fashion. Yeah, but just because our political system can't figure out how to get our oligarchs in control doesn't mean that we don't need smart people in this country.

Totally, I agree. I'm not saying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I do. This gets to my point, though, is that is it really the best in the brightest? The 01 visa exists with that purpose. Sometimes it is just like entry-level software engineer, which, look, I'm not diminishing that. It's a very difficult job. And there have been a ton of Silicon Valley layoffs. Right, exactly. Which cuts again, cuts the other way. It's like, wait a minute, why do you mean all these H-1Bs? Yeah, that recently happened at Microsoft. All of these companies are firing all of these. Did you see that at Microsoft?

They recently fired thousands of workers, and then in their lottery, we're like, applying for thousands. So you're like, okay, this is about stocks, all right? And you're a $2 trillion market cap or something like that. So I think we can all kind of figure out what's happening. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means.

to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country. Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith.

And that's what I believe in. To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed.

Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin, so like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. On 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family.

And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is,

what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers, who say that you were given all the answers, believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. Are there Jeopardy-truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones, which are like, they give you the answers, and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of The Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's get to Venezuela. Ryan, this is a Ryan special. Drop some knowledge on us. What's happening. Okay, this situation is deadly serious and could be heading towards a regime change effort in Venezuela. Trump at the same time as ratcheting up the tensions and putting everything on red alert and also at the same time making a giant mockery of it, he went to truth social and said, top secret, let's roll this VO here, top secret, we caught the Venezuelan movement. militia in training, a very serious threat. He posted that on truth, social, showing this. And what this is, is Nicholas Medoro, in the wake of having a $50 million bounty put on his

head, in the wake of at least three ships being blown out of the water in the Caribbean by the United States and all of the passengers burned alive. And in the wake of Israel's assassination campaign around the world, Maduro has been on heightened alert and has organized tens of thousands of Venezuelans into militias and is also preparing the Venezuelan military for a potential invasion. Although it seems to me what could be more likely is just what they clinically call a decapitation strike. Yeah, destabilization strikes. Like I worry that that Trump has been hanging out in the Oval Office watching Netanyahu assassinate whoever he wants in Yamin or Lebanon or Iran or in Syria.

And it's like, wait a minute, you can just do that. You can just kill civilian leaders that you don't like. And then by kind of breaking the seal of just killing civilian people in the Caribbean, he calls them drug traffickers, but there's no congressional authorization to kill drug traffickers in the Caribbean. There's no international law that would say that if you think that somebody has cocaine on a boat, you can send a drone over top of it and burn them alive. That's just not a thing, but he's doing it. So Trump has done that to at least three ships yesterday. He said again that he had done it, but reporters are not clear whether he was referring to the same one that he

announced previously or whether this is a fourth one. But we can put up E2 on this on the screen here. This is Trump's video that another another of the videos that they released there are there is Trump burning people alive in the in the Caribbean is claiming to have you know discovered you know that they were trafficking in drugs. It's ironic that you would have you know special for forces involved in this, given as the new book, the Fort Bragg cartel shows us. Nobody is more involved in drug trafficking than special forces operators. Well, at least according to those select groups.

Yeah, we got a lot of, you know, it turns out the U.S. military and intelligence agencies have a lot of intel on which ships are moving around with product. I won't put them all down. There are some, I assume, are good? I'm joking. All right. I think a lot are great people. But obviously, Seth's book was pretty extraordinary. We did see this. I was actually curious for your take on this from the Dominican Republic. Can we put the E3 up here on the screen? They say they recovered cocaine from the boat that was struck.

It was the first time it had carried out a joint operation, they said, against narco-terrorism in the Caribbean with the United States. What are our relations with the Dominican Republic? Like, is this... They're a client. Okay. So are they going along with this? Is this something that, like, wanted to do? You know, like in terms of U.S. power projection in the Caribbean, is this something that they welcome? Like, are they anti-Venezuela?

That's what made me curious about this announcement. Because obviously, they're backing it up big time. Right. Yeah, it was full of drugs. There was 1,000 kilos or whatever that was on the boat. Yeah, I mean, Dominican Republic doesn't have any agency when it comes to the United States. We tell them, you know, which way is up and which way is down. And also, if they push back remotely,

then we're going to look at, you know, what involvement, you know, various Dominican Republic officials have in the drug trade. The drug trade penetrates every level of government, in every government, including our government. And so it would not be surprising to me at all if we had actually reliable intelligence about, you know, which boats have cocaine on them and which boats don't. We've got people all, we've got people everywhere all over the place here. The question, I think, is about, is this any of this about drugs? And that's kind of what I was getting at with the Dominican Republic, you know, and kind of backing up and legitimizing this operation.

Like, how, what are their relations with Maduro? Would they want to, like, who wants regime change in Venezuela, other than the neocons in Miami? Right. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, that's all you need because the lead neocon in Miami happens to be the Secretary of State. Right. So if we can actually, for a second, jump to E5, what really is going on here, and this is according to senior level people that I've spoken to, so this is, the Washington Post had its big story saying DEA faced pushback at the White House Pentagon after urging Mexico strikes. So early on in the Trump administration, the acting DEA head urged the Trump administration to carry out Trump's promise to bomb, to basically to assess. assassinate cartel leaders and to bomb production facilities in Mexico. We promised we're going to do it. Let's go ahead and do it. They got pushback because A, shine bomb is like, you don't do this. Do not bomb Mexico?

Right. And B, a lot of the lawyers in the early days were like, you absolutely cannot do this. And C, the chance that you're going to kill Americans is pretty high if you do this. And so they backed off of this. But Trump, and I think one of the few things that Trump has genuine sentiments about is his hostility to drug use. Like, just he personally finds it messy. His brother had an addiction issue. It's always something he has hated. You can just see it in him. It's one of the things I love most about it. There you go.

And so Rubio, and this is my understanding what went on in turn. Rubio very effectively picked that up. rubio has been boxed out of ukraine boxed out of the middle east his real thing that he wants to do is you know go after cuba go after nicarago go after venezuela this is the the fever dream of the of the south florida elite uh trump doesn't really want to do that i mean even though he had to basically did that in his first term it's it's not his thing yeah like he's like what are we getting involved in all of this stuff here like you you don't like venezuela that's that's not our problem he's more

I think he instinctually is more in the Rick Cornell camp, which is like, look, Citgo wants to sell us oil. They got oil. Who cares? Let's figure it out. You did like eight coups. It's not working. Let's just do this. Let's do business. Yeah. So what Rubio cleverly did is he shoehorned his agenda of regime change into Trump's agenda of blowing up cartel guys by saying, look, Venezuela is actually, he's, He's not a communist. Well, yeah, he is a communist. He's terrible for that. But what he really is is a narco-terrorist. And so then they put this $50 million bounty out.

They went out and they said he runs Trenda Arago, which is not actually, like it's not primarily a drug trafficking gang. Yeah, we had one David Rojas on to talk about that. I mean, I've said this from the day one. So they fixed all the intelligence to make it. It's like, guys, 99% of fentanyl is Mexico. and China. From China. 99% of it comes from Mexico and China.

If you want to bomb somebody, that's where you would bomb. We're not going to do that because of NAFTA and because of the U.S. economy. It's literally, it would shut down overnight, right? And in my opinion, you'd correct me if I'm wrong, it would probably cause, like, mass populist backlash inside of Mexico and collapse relations with the Chey and Bond government, which broadly are actually not bad right now, which is really all Trump cares about, right? So there's that.

And then, yeah, go ahead. No, here's the other annoying thing about this. Theo Vaughn, when he had J.D. Vance on, had one of the funniest lines. Oh, what are he saying? He was like, are you really a country if you can't even get decent cocaine anymore? He's like, he's sober now. He's like, you know, he's sober now. The Wall Street Journal now reports that cocaine is more plentiful than ever, all right?

But the problem is, and this was what Theo Vaughn was complaining about, and he's sober now, so not complaining for himself, but, you know, for a friend. Right, for friends. There's such a high risk of there being fentanyl laced into your cocaine that you might die for just a little bump on a Saturday night. Yes. And his point is like, what kind of country is that? That's not a real country, JD.

You need to fix this. You need to fix the fentanyl problems so that people can get high up. The Coke that is least likely to have fentanyl in it is the stuff that's coming straight from the jungle on the boats. Oh, from Venezuela.

Okay, I like where you're going. So what is Trump doing? Taking the cleanest Coke. Yeah. It's like clean coal. They take it out. Blowing it up. And so what are we going to be left with? This dirty Mexican stuff

that's intermingled with fentanyl. which is only going to lead to more people dying. You're killing me, right? You're killing me. I don't know. That's so funny. Kind of country is this. I mean, it's a better country where people do less cocaine,

but that's the problem. People are doing more cocaine apparently than ever. People are tired, man. Whatever. That's a whole other thing. People are, oh, I use it for productivity. Oh, yeah, really? Productivity to drink more.

Okay. So let's stick, though, with the regime change because I think this is very important what you're saying. The stats bear out 99% offensive. and all comes from Mexico, 93%, according to DEA's most racing figures. Cocaine comes from Colombia, transits through Mexico to the United States. 7% comes through all different routes, including these boats. For some reason, Venezuela is now at the top of that list.

But what's scary to me is this military posture. E4, please. Let's put this up here on the screen. New York Times writes, U.S. military buildup in Caribbean signals broader campaign against Venezuela, Trump officials say the mission aims to disrupt the drug trade, but military officials and analysts say the real goal might be driving Venezuela's president from power. I don't think it's a might-be when you put a $50 million bounty on a guy's head. Yeah, it might be. It's not might be. The only question is how far it goes.

Right, exactly. But here's the thing I've wondered. Like, okay, the Chavistas, whether it's Hugo Chavez Chavez or Maduro, have been in power going on 27 years. Yes. why is that why do we care i'm with you i don't care at all like yeah like yeah you people do why i'm supposed to care as long as you'll send a boatload of migrants over here i don't care what you do all right i mean it's one of those things and the sanctions who cares the sanctions are what are sending the boatload of migrants yeah because that's the other deal that is on the table lift sanctions u.s gets oil venezuel takes a bunch of migrants back like that that deal is well okay let's answer the question honestly why do we care because a bunch of rich Venezuelan

ex-patriots who live in Miami are all voting for, yeah, they're mad. I mean, which I get it. I get it too. I mean, I would be mad too. That's my family. Yeah, if my family was kicked out or whatever, I totally understand. I'm not diminishing your experience, but, you know, it would be a little bit the equivalent of like my family coming over here and then voting solely on the issue of like being, I don't

know, anti-some political party or whatever. Yeah, beating up the Congress party in India. Be like, who cares about that? between y'all yeah exactly it's like you guys figure that out all right you elect whoever you want to elect and you know we'll meet with whoever it is i saw juan actually sent me this great tweet uh from some venezuelan ex-patriot who was just after the first bombing it was like i voted for this my abolita verdict and my abolita voted for this so good and it's true they did yeah no yeah they did you're right absolutely right they all not ironically did vote for this um so you know who amongst us should

not be beholden to South Florida abuelitas so they can get their villas in Caracas back. Yeah, I mean, it's just all the national security priority for the United States of America. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers. were born outside of this country.

Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith. But there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe in. To bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country.

This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation, public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself.

My dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my... reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.

The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called White House. Weisscrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Weiscrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Puzzlers.

Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy Truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in I guess they would be conspiracy theorists That's right, are there Jeopardy Truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like,

they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of the Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There was an event at the United Nations, yes, sir.

That almost defies description. Let's roll. You have to see this to believe it. See if you can figure out who these gentlemen are rolling out on stage. together. Salamalam al-a-a-a-a-a-a-shaid Raiz. Hello, what-sah, al-Nas-Lan, and Sharafna-Saidi. As you know, Mr. President, I spent over 37 years in the U.S. Army, and I was a soldier, not a

diplomat, so I hope you'll forgive me if I speak with the directness of the old soldier that I am as I get the first question out of the way, because the fact is that we were on different sides when I was commanding the surge in Iraq. You were, of course, detained by U.S. forces for some five years, including, again, when I was the four-star there. And here you are now as the president of Syria, which your force is liberated from the murderous Bashar al-Assad regime to participate in your first UN General Assembly as the president of your country. Earlier this year, you met the President of the United States, among many other world leaders. Please help us understand how you got from al-Qaeda and Iraq 20 years ago to where you are today, Syria's head of state on stage in New York City.

I welcome you. And then we now move to the discourse. We move from war to discourse. Yes, sir. Someone who went through war is one who knows most the importance of peace. Perhaps there were some mistakes. Sometimes in a person's journey, there are some mistakes. But what's important is to focus on defending people from the threats that they face,

especially from the instability that could take place in any region. agent. So yeah, that Ahmed, Alshar up. Just imagine you are an American soldier and you serve or service member and you served in Iraq in the height of the surge when a couple hundred Americans were getting killed or wounded every month under David Petraeus to hunt down to kill Al-Qaeda and Iraq. And for that commander and then the former CIA director to be sitting across smiley and googly-eyed at a literal terrorist marked by the U.S. government, complicit in God knows how many horrific crimes, attacks on our soldiers, all because, let's be honest, because the guy is willing to play ball with who, Ryan, Israel. And so because of that,

oh, it's such a great victory for the world that Bashar al-Assad is gone. Really? Bring him back. If this is the alternative? Like, what are we doing here? You know? And it's, I got it, for me, it's especially blackpilling. My whole initial career was spent on these issues, ISIS, al-Qaeda. I was a true believer, you know, I didn't want to believe the conspiracy theory about what I thought was. That the U.S. was funding. That the U.S. was funny. I said, no, that's ridiculous.

I know these people that are fighting. You know, they really believe in, you know, in a better democracy for Syria and for all. No, we turned it into a playground for the entire world. We facilitated along, not just us, Russians, Katari, Saudis, everybody, Turks, everybody got in on the action. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed. Millions were displaced, all for it to end in the result of thousands of Americans died, thousands to prevent al-Qaeda. And also to respond to the 9-11 attacks, only to have the CIA director glaze an al-Qaeda terrorist operative. in New York City.

It's too much for me. But that's what makes me so cynical about the state of the world. It's like, actually, that shit, apparently that was the point the whole time. It's to, we got to get rid of Assad. He's a murderous dictator. So we've got to replace him with a new murderous one

because he's good with Israel. Oh, great. Okay, great. Awesome. Good for the people's Syria, I guess. If you're a Christian, good luck to you. You know, might just get blown up in a church or something like that. There were a couple other psychedelic moments.

that we can roll through before we finish and put F2 up here. How are you holding up under all this pressure? Are you getting time to do some thinking? Are you getting enough sleep at night? Again, I've been there, and it is so very, very hard. And you're many fans, and I am one of them, we do have worries.

We're nationalists, certainly, yes, a degree of political Islam. But frankly, what you have done since toppling the Bejad al-Assad regime has validated what it is that I assessed it. And I was criticized, by the way, quite considerably. I just want you to tell you really on behalf of all the people who are here that this conversation has truly filled me with enormous hope. It has been very, very heartening and illuminating. Your vision is powerful and clear.

Your demeanor itself is very impressive as well. And so, again, on behalf of all here and all those that are watching virtually and so forth, we thank you for sharing your vision today. We wish you strength and wisdom and the difficult work ahead. we obviously hope for your success, inshallah, because at the end of the day, your success is our success. Your success is our success.

I don't even have words for this. Again, and he's like, we've, he's comparing his experience as an American soldier to the Al-Qaeda terrorist who he was trying to kill 20 years ago. At other points in that, he said, can you talk a little bit about how you obtain your weapons?

I mean, you know how he got the weapons. He sold it to him. And he's like, what about leadership training? Yeah. He was literally asking what kind of leadership training al-Qaeda was doing. Because of how, and hey, look, credit where it's due. All the critics, all the critics who were screaming into the void on the internet, they were all right. Every single one of them, all right, about al-Qaeda, about the CIA, including, by the way, the former, the current DNI, who at one point had a very different take on this.

She was 100% correct, this entire, I can't even believe my eyes. in front of us. And I just want to underscore again, none of this has anything to do with American interests because nobody ever particularly cared about Bashar al-Assad. To the extent that it was a problem, it was about the migrant crisis, which, you know, if that was it, then you would want a quick war. That came from the civil war. Right, exactly. Came from the civil war. You would want the war to add. Israel had a problem. Right, exactly. Israel is the only people who had a problem with Bashar al-Assad. And now since then, what's been happening? Oh, well, you know, there's been a bunch of strikes in Israel. And in fact, even though this guy has been playing ball with Israel,

that they still struck the presidential palace, just to make sure. Not so well, because Israel like bombing the palace. Just so you know, we will kill you. You have to play ball with us completely. Let's go and put F4 up there on the screen. Just a couple of days ago, he said that a border deal with Israel could come within days. That deal, by the way, would basically expand greater Israel even further into Syria, beyond the borders, even that they used to fight with Assad about. He was, to be fair, asked about it by Petraeus. He's like, we're not there yet, but obviously they're keeping communication lines open. There were specifically also calls for him to join the Abraham Accord. So that's what our grand experiment in Syria, which again,

you know, if you're me, I've covered this from almost as day one of the Civil War. So to be here 14 years later or 11 years later, and to see this, never in my wildest dreams. And what he kept asking for in the Petraeus interview, and we put up F3 on the screen here is for the U.S. to, and the world to complete the lifting of sanctions, which, frankly, they should. Like, what's the point? Like, you got, you got your guy. It doesn't matter anymore. I mean, the damage is all done, right?

So at this point, like, yeah, I guess. Although, I mean, if we're going to maintain any, it's just like, well, what is this all about then? We spent 25 years, 24 years fighting the war on terror for this to be the end. Like, it's just, it's sick. It's really asking the U.S. public to just swallow an enormous amount. Yeah, but how many people do you get to know about this? 99% percent.

It is, I mean, part of it is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. If you're an American soldier, though, I hope you pay attention. I really do. You were abused disgustingly. Some people, very courageous people, not me.

I wish I had said it at the time. They were 100% right. They really were. Meanwhile, I don't know if you saw this. Contemporary ISIS. which those same critics now say is basically propped up by Israel and the United States. Just the other day, as all these European capitals are now recognizing Palestinian statehood, ISIS put out a statement saying that they wanted people to attack Europe.

This is an interesting timing. Just as Europe is recognizing, it's like, guys, If you're trying to make it look like you are a proxy of Israel, like you couldn't pick a better time to threaten European capitals with terrorist attacks just as they're recognizing a Palestinian state, you know, they said it's like to do it in solidarity with whatever. Like it is, black pill is good, is a good phrase for it because we are, we remember 9-11. the ISIS beheadings and grotesque displays of violence are seared into our memories. If you're a Zoomer, you don't even understand what that moment.

I'm not even talking about 9-11. I'm talking about, what was this? James Foley? Foley and Stephen, Stephen Sotloss, I think. Sotloff, that's what it is. I mean, we watch their deaths. It's equivalent to the Kirk thing. We all experience that collectively on the original, on the early, on the early.

early internet. Or you remember the Jordanian pilot? You're being burned alive in a cage. They burned a guy alive in a cage. Like we... They lined up 20 Egyptians. Right. Remember the fall of Mosul? And executed them. Yeah. And then all those Yazidi women who were raped and held as sex slaves, like to live through that and then with the righteous indignation of the American people, of some people, like,

how could we let this happen? We have to go back with to do something about this. And the fact is, is that all of the naysayers who were like, this is all a deep state cover to, you know, go after Assad and to prop up al-Qaeda, they were 100% correct because look at the end state of where it all came about. Yeah, and the U.S. was doing this ever since World War II, we were funding these death squads throughout Central and South America, in Indonesia, funding the, you know, the worst butchers around the world. And so it makes sense that we would continue funding butchers. Yeah, but during the Cold War, it was under the guise of stopping communism.

Which is more honest. But that's more honest. This was about these monsters. Just playing games in the Middle East. Exactly. Exactly. And great. I'm happy that Israel's security and borders can expand and that we spent hundreds of billions of dollars

and wasted American lives or whatever. And actually lift the sanctions and I'm rooting for Shara now. I'm rooting for it. I just want stability. These people deserve peace at this point. But, I mean, unfortunately. And Israel's probably not. them for the love of God. They're going to keep bombing them. Yeah, but by the way, the Christian

population in there, you know, it's, it's going to be dark. I feel for them. I really do. All right. Thank you, Ryan. That was a great show. I enjoyed it. I'll be at the UN tomorrow, so Chris will be here for me. So Chris will be in for Ryan tomorrow. I will be out for the rest of the week, but Ryan will be in for me on Thursday. I know you guys have some interesting guests and all of that lined up. We will see you all later. Oh, and stay tuned for my Tucker Carlson interview for our premium subscribers. I'm Jorge Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one.

We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The moment is a space for the conversations we've been here. having us father and daughter for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack,

where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you.

Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an IHeart podcast.