Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - Mini Show #2: Elizabeth Holmes Trial, MeToo CEO Resigns, Chicago Mechanics Strike, Purdue Pharma Settlement, and More!

Episode Date: September 4, 2021

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early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind Boy Sober, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, Boy Sober is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process.

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uncut an hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate in weekly Ask Me Anythings, and you don't need to hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now. So what are you waiting for? Go to breakingpoints.com, become a premium member today, which is available in the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys. Some incredible development on the Theranos front. Elizabeth Holmes, let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. She's found her latest grift, which is grifting off the Me Too movement, saying that the founder of blood testing startup plans to defend herself at federal fraud trial by arguing that her ex-boyfriend, who was an executive of the company, emotionally and sexually abused her, according to legal

filings. So this is all pretty incredible, Crystal, because anybody who has read Bad Blood by, I forget his name, actually, John, wow, I can't believe it. Anyway, anybody who has read that book about inside of what was happening inside Theranos knows that her boyfriend at the time, Ramesh Sunny Balwani, Sunny is how he is known, was directly in cahoots with her, but that she was the chief executive overseeing a lot of the fraud, not only of her own employees, pitching it to customers, which ultimately resulted in many people getting faulty blood work and making bad decisions

and in some cases adverse decisions around their health. That is ultimately her crime. It's not just about the fact that she defrauded a bunch of millionaires here on the East Coast in order to buy her own BS. Actual people were harmed by this product. That's actually always the one that gets me. And so she is trying to use, you know, the sympathetic like, oh, he emotionally abused me. I mean, maybe. It sounds like she emotionally abused most of her

staff and anybody who was there. Allegedly, by the way, for her lawyers. She allegedly abused most of her staff who worked for her, and many of whom were so guilty over realizing that their product didn't work, tried to speak out to the media and more. And ultimately, this is the price that she, in my opinion, again, for her lawyers, deserves to pay being guilty in this case. But it's just the classic development. She has always tried to play the woman card, both in terms of pushing her fraud in the first place and now doing it whenever it comes to her actual defense. That is very true. It's very consistent with her behavior this entire time to now lean into a defense of like, me too made me do it. Some of the details here, and by the way, it's John Carreyrou is the name

that you were looking for. So she's not going to present an insanity defense according to her lawyer's new documents. Instead, Holmes' legal team wrote she'll be demonstrating

a defense of a mental condition bearing on guilt that was the result of partner abuse and that impacted her state of mind at the time of the alleged crimes. Yeah, she from the

beginning leaned into her status as like female tech entrepreneur. She's the lean-in billionaire. That's who she was. That's why she was able to raise so much money. I mean, the luminaries who associated themselves with this just utter fraud, the list is a mile long. And as you said, you know, what she did is they were giving fake tests and fake results to people who were actually relying on these things. The level of fraud and grift here was completely insane. And yes, there are many, many reports

of her being incredibly abusive to the staff and all around her. So let's be clear that by alleged, alleged, alleged. Let's be clear that this was her baby. OK, this was her company that she started. The behavior and the pattern is consistent throughout. So the idea that like Me Too made me do it is insane. And also, look, there are all kinds of psychological circumstances happening with people. Maybe it's because of a traumatic childhood or whatever circumstances surrounding their life that leads ultimately

to the end result of crimes being committed. But if she is able to get a reduced sentence or get off because of this dynamic, I mean, what incredible, it'll be an incredible another demonstration of a failure of elite accountability, of a two-tier justice system, that anyone would even entertain this. Imagine someone who wasn't wealthy, someone who wasn't white trying to put this in front of the court. They'd laugh them out of the room. We're going to have a chance. She's likely to take the stand and testify herself at her trial. So it will be interesting to see exactly what she does. I hope the audio comes out of that because I want to see if that voice is still as deep as it was. Yeah, that was part of what was reported is the way

that she intentionally deepened her voice and she'd wear, it was like those turtlenecks, in imitation of Steve Jobs, right? I mean, all of it was about, she was much more focused on creating this brand around herself than she was ever on actually having a product. Yeah, like a real company. That would be effective and provide people with the test results that they need to make

informed decisions about their health. I'm looking forward to it. I know John Kerry, you actually, I saw he just released two new episodes on like the Bad Blood. I think it's a new podcast. So I'm going to go take a listen to that. I encourage you guys to go. Yeah, all the documentaries and everything are incredible as well.

Really good. Definitely worth watching. All right, guys, we'll have more for you later. Hey, so remember how we told you how awesome premium membership was? Well, here we are again to remind you that becoming a premium member means you don't have to listen to our constant pleas for you to subscribe.

So what are you waiting for? Become a premium member today by going to breakingpoints.com, which you can click on in the show notes. More fallout this morning from the Andrew Cuomo scandal and resignation. So part of the story, part of what was revealed from Letitia James's report about his sexual harassment, those allegations, is the number of elites here in D.C. who protected this guy. And not just any

elites. Elites from supposed social justice and civil rights organizations, like the head of Human Rights Campaign and like Time's Up, which is an organization which is supposed to be dedicated to victims of MeToo and sexual harassment and sexual assault. So the latest development is that Tina Tchen, who was Time's president and CEO, has now resigned. Washington Post got their hands actually on text messages between Tina Tchen and Roberta Kaplan and others in the group, telling them to stand down on providing any sort of support to Lindsay Boylan, who's one of Cuomo's accusers, and who also is one of the women who was completely smeared by Cuomo and those around him. The head of HRC, Human Rights Campaign, also was involved in some of the behavior. I think they handed over confidential personnel files about Lindsay Boylan that Cuomo could then use in smearing her. So Time's Up also complicit

here in helping to allow these allegations about Lindsay Boylan to come out from Cuomo and to not support her, which is supposedly the whole mission of the organization. So in all of this, you see what they were really about, which is when it's convenient, they'll support women. And they also will stand as an organization that can protect elite Democrats when any allegations come out against them. So they get to be the gatekeepers. They get to decide whose allegations count. Does Tara Reade's allegation count, for example? No, it did not count. Does Lindsay Boylan's allegation against Andrew Cuomo count? No, that did not count. And whose allegations actually merit being heard and being taken seriously. It's just amazing. And just so you guys know her background, because I thought this was hilarious,

which is that she was former Michelle Obama's chief of staff. And she was the head of the Women's and Girls Initiative under the White House, under Barack Obama. So that's who Tina Tchen was. And she was totally had zero accountability for what happened here. She resigned basically because of the bottom is up outrage within that and the public outrage over what she was doing. But you can see clearly that she did not have a lot of remorse. You know, hours before that she even resigned, she was on a podcast, on a panel discussion in which she was questioned. And she just said, we need to have a responsible way that does not lead survivors to question us or feel as though we have betrayed them.

That was hours before. So she really wasn't taking any accountability and refused to talk about what her own actions were in covering up all of this. And it just reveals them for the frauds that they are, which is that they don't actually care about women. They were just talking about protecting elite Democrats and worse, raising a lot of money for themselves. That's actually the worst part, which is that a lot of people got rich, you know, on these organizations and more. And yeah, she may have resigned, but I'm sure she'll be resurrected soon. So Hillary Rosen, Roberta Kaplan, Tina Tchen, these are all very high level Democratic operatives, donors, and strategists. Okay, you do not get any more connected than these three women within the Democratic Party. So the idea that they were

going to set up a neutral organization, non-political organization, that was just going to support women, going to help women tell their stories, going to assist them. The legal defense fund is supposed to help them with funds for lawyers so they can actually take their claims to a court of law. No, this was all about gatekeeping. This is all about deciding who gets heard and who doesn't. If it's convenient for us, if it serves our political interest, then yes, I always support you. And here's the funds. And let's all of us tell your story to the media. Let's get you out there. If it's inconvenient for us, if it's against Joe Biden or Andrew Cuomo or who knows what other Democrats have had allegations against them that they,

you know, decided weren't worthy of consideration, well, then they can stop you from getting that attention and that support and those funds to take your claims ultimately to a court of law. So it just reveals what this organization was actually about, and it was always, it appears, primarily about serving a partisan function and making sure that this whole Me Too thing didn't ultimately come back and bite Democrats. Which is actually just sad because, you know, it is a noble cause, but watching it get hijacked by these corporate people

is really gross. And turning it into a partisan one is even worse. Yes, exactly right. All right, guys, we'll have more for you later. Wow, you guys must really like listening to our voices. While I know this is annoying, instead of making you listen to a Viagra commercial, when you're done, check out the other podcast I do with Marshall Kosloff

called The Realignment. We talk a lot about the deeper issues that are changing, realigning in American society. You always need more Crystal and Saga in your daily lives. Take care, guys. So there's been a strike ongoing among auto mechanics in the city of Chicago. And joining us now to break down what exactly is going on there is Ronnie Gonzalez. He's business representative at the Automobiles Local 701. Great to have you, Ronnie. Good to see you, Ronnie. Good morning. Thanks for having me. Just give us an update. How long has the strike been going on and what are your concerns? The strike started August 2nd, Monday morning at the open of business for the car dealerships. We had a membership meeting on the 1st to vote the final offer given by the NCDC.

And at that time, the offer was rejected by 97% by our membership, followed up by a strike vote that passed with a 99% approval from the membership. So the major sticking points currently are the NCDC has proposed language. One article is the most favored nations language and that basically gives the ability to the NCDC to cherry pick provisions out of other automobile mechanic or automotive contracts, any policies or provisions that they feel beneficial to them, and they would be effective immediately, not giving the union any ability to bargain on them. The membership and the union are very opposed to that because we feel that each company and negotiations and agreement have their own set of circumstances and nobody has the right to reach into somebody else's contract. The second issue is

the lack of funding to our health and welfare. The trustees have put forth a set rate for what they need to keep our health and welfare fund going, and the NCDC fails to meet that rate. And thirdly, we are rejecting a provision that will reduce the journeyman's base pay guarantee when they come in for 40 hours a week, they get a base rate that, you know, if the work is slow or productivity is down for whatever reason, whether it's due to their control or not, that the management would have the ability to reduce that base pay. And we're against that also. So just tell us, Ronnie, about not obviously the specifics of contracts are really important.

You guys have been on strike now for quite some time. How are you guys doing in terms of that? Do you guys see any progress towards getting what you want from management for the deal? Yes, this is our fifth week just started. And, you know, I've been out to the strike lines on a regular basis and the morale is really high. The membership knows why they're out there and they're dedicated to the strike lines on a regular basis, and the morale is really high. The membership knows why they're out there, and they're dedicated to the cause, that they want to have a good contract to work under, and they had a seven and a half week strike that ultimately led to a acceptable contract that they passed. And so this group has the ability and knows what it takes to stay out for a strike to get an acceptable contract. One of the things I read in the news

reports was that there was a defectors group that somehow factors into this, but I couldn't quite understand how this all works. Could you just explain that piece to me? The NCDC started with roughly 130 dealerships, and towards the end of that strike, the dealerships just left the NCDC to take an agreement that they felt was acceptable to both the dealerships and the members. So coming into this set of negotiations in 2021, that group of people created their own new association, which was named the Defectors, and they bargained their own deal and they never went on strike. That group was roughly about 30 dealerships. And that group has grown to over 70 dealerships now. And they are in the majority. The NCDC, I believe, came into this negotiations at 56 dealerships and are now far below that number

as people are once again defecting. So one of the things that I think is important for people to understand, Ronnie, because so much of America has sort of lost touch with the labor movement and what it means, the language of it, the language of strikes, what this is all about. If you all weren't unionized, what sort of power would you have in this situation to get the deal that you deserve? I don't think any, because if you don't have a union to represent you, then you don't have a seat at the table to negotiate the terms of the contract. And so what are the dealerships doing right now? Are people getting their cars fixed or are they using scab labor? How are they sort of coping with this situation? There is mainly, there are no certified union mechanics inside any of the

shops that are currently picketing. I've heard of service writers and managers changing oil just to try and get a couple customers taken care of. But ultimately, there are no certified union mechanics doing work on the other side of the strike lines. Got it. What can our audience do to support you guys? What kind of community support have you gotten, Ronnie? Community support has been abundant. Chicago is a very union-dense area, and other unions, police officers, firefighters, teachers. Sorry if I left anybody out. I know there's been a whole bunch of people, construction trades, electricians, plumbers. Different unions have come out and dropped off water, dropped off food,

dropped off donuts and coffee and all type of material support to help the guys and girls out there on the strike line. And we really appreciate that type of support. And, you know, honk as you go by, wave. If you're an actual customer to the dealership, write a letter to the dealership and say that giving acceptable terms to our mechanics is something that you desire as a customer. Great. Well, I know we have a lot of people watching from Chicago. So thank you for bringing us all up to speed. It's really important.

We support you guys. Thank you. Thank you for covering our story. One more thing, I promise. Just wanted to make sure you knew about my podcast with Kyle Kalinsky. It's called Crystal Kyle and Friends, where we do long-form interviews with people like Noam Chomsky, Cornel West, and Glenn Greenwald. You can listen on any podcast platform, or you can subscribe over on Substack to get the video a day early. We're going to stop bugging you now.

Enjoy. Okay, guys, we wanted to make sure that you had something on Labor Day. And that is, frankly, in my view, a very good story, although there's some mixed reactions to it. Let's put it up there on the screen, which is that breaking news that happened over the weekend. Purdue Pharmaceuticals is going to be dissolved, and the Sackler family is going to have to pay $4.5 billion to settle opioid claims. So that ruling in bankruptcy court, this is it. It's over. It caps the long legal battle over the company itself who fueled the opioid epidemic knowingly in some cases and the family that owns it, the Sackler family, who of course tried to buy their way into respectable company by funding the Met Museum and a lot of other different places. This is very important for two reasons. Number one, yes, they have paid $4.5 billion. They will

pay it in installments over roughly nine years. Those payments and the profits of a new drug from the company will go towards addiction treatment and prevention treatment across the country. That is a good thing. That being said, at the end of the day, and the judge in the case itself pointed this out, he said, quote, this is a bitter result, bitter, explaining that so much Sackler money was parked offshore in accounts, he said he expected and had wished for a higher settlement. And what that points to is both the culpability of the Sackler family itself, of the fact that they tried to use all of their political connections in order to get off as free as they possibly could here. And Marshall, I don't think there's

any illusion that they will remain billionaires after this is done, that their company that they formed, yes, it has been dissolved, but they still profited. And ultimately, while they did have to admit some culpability in fueling the opioid crisis and the deaths of quite literally hundreds of thousands of people here in the United States, that they are definitely going to get away with this. And the point I want to get your thoughts on in particular is where a lot of people here in the United States that they are definitely going to get away with this. And the point I want to get your thoughts on in particular is where a lot of people are upset. Let's put this next tear sheet up on the screen, that they will now have immunity from remaining lawsuits. So part of the deal here was, okay, we pay $4.5 billion, and now

nobody can sue us in perpetuity over this. This is it. It's over. It's settled. There's not a lot of closure for some of the victims here. Some people feel that the penalty should have been much higher. What do you think? Yeah, there's two different tensions here. One is, I don't think we're a sadomasochistic country. There is enough. There is a point where things are enough. But for most people, and we got so much feedback on this on Reddit, on Twitter, this is clearly not it. If they're still

billionaires, then they weren't screaming uncle yet. This isn't about some notion of mercy or stoppage or being opposed to gratuitousness. They're still billionaires. And given the stock market, they could just park money different places and get back within a generation. It's that real factor here.

It feels like this wasn't enough. I think if immunity had come at a point where they were actually broken as a unit, that would feel more fair for people. Because losing 40% to 45% of your fortune, what does that mean? And yes, it's true that – actually, answer this for me. Where does their reputation stand as a family? So I know everyone caught them trying to buy back their reputation, but are they going to have all the monuments taken down? Are the names going to go down? Oh, well, so I know – I think the Met did remove their name for the Met.

But again, that's there. But, you know, in terms of the rest, look, it doesn't take that long. You have billions of dollars. There are people out there and they'll take it. Ten years from now, they'll probably take it. And that, I think, is part of it. Maybe somebody will change their name and then it's over, right? And who the hell cares what the check is whenever you're talking about some art or orchestra philanthropy or whatever. I think they'll probably buy their

way back into New York polite society within, like you said, a generation. That's all it really takes for these people. And I do want to underscore that this immunity part was a key thing in this Sackler's settlement. So we had covered previously, Crystal and I, their push for immunity, David Sackler, and kind of the threats that he was making. And it has been pretty clear now for over a month that they were going to get it. And I think that really what we have to do is just channel what the judge said. He's like, you people are parking your money offshore. Settlement should have been much higher. Also, Marshall, they have nine years to pay it, okay? It's not like they have to wire transfer it all right now.

Nine whole years. What are they going to do in the interim? They can actually hold that money, just put it in the stock market, off the dividends from that alone. They could live like kings for years, right? So really what it is is that they got away with basically murder. And look, I know it's a controversial statement, but everything that has come out from how this company conducted itself, from knowingly pushing these types of drugs, from not only knowingly but covering up the evidence of addiction, of pushing it even when they knew in order to make money, of manipulating the medical system, that is as bad as it gets in terms of their behavior as a company.

And you shouldn't be able to get away with this. It's like what you're saying. I think people would probably be fine if they were, you know, 10 billion, right? It's like what happened with OJ, where they were like, for the rest of your life, you have to pay whatever, which I support, by the way, on that one. To be clear. Yeah, which I 100%. You also did it.

So we're going to be very clear about you. Yeah, allegedly for OJ's lawyers. Okay, so all of that being said, this is clearly not justice. And I think that is the part that really makes me mad, which is there are a lot of people who are dead and whose families were ruined. Think about how many well-meaning people had back pain and their doctor prescribed them opioids and then two years later, they're strung out on black tar heroin. That's a direct response to the behavior of this company. Yeah.

I just want to quickly preview tomorrow's realignment episode because it speaks directly to this. We have Ben Mesrick. He is the author of The Antisocial Network, Bitcoin Billionaires, the book that inspired The Social Network. He made this really interesting point about why people,

especially in game stocks, have deep hatred towards financial elites. It doesn't seem like there's any actual serious financial consequence to failure in the sense that if you're a homeowner who got behind your mortgage payments after 2008, you're done. Maybe all you owe is $50,000. You're wrecked over that amount.

If you're a billionaire family that didn't just screw up in terms of housing but literally killed people, you lose like 30% of your fortune. Then that's sort of inconvenient. Yeah, maybe you're going to want to change your daughter's last name so she can get into the proper grammar school

but it's never actually a real consequence and it's just really this gap in money that it's just crazy when we get into it, of course. Yeah, no, it really is. It's travesty. We'll continue to follow this story, guys but unfortunately, I think this might be the end to it and you guys should check out that GameStop episode

with Ben Mesrick on The Realignment. Really, really enjoyed it. Okay, all right. We will see you all tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the show, guys. We really appreciate it. To help other people find the show, go ahead and leave us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Really helps other people find the show. As always, special thank you to Supercast for powering our premium membership. If you want to find out more, go to crystalandsauger.com. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children.

Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait.

Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon.

This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. He's trying to give it to his irresponsible son, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up. They could lose their family and millions of dollars.

Yup. Find out how it ends by listening to the okay. Storytime podcast on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm hope Woodard, a comedian creator and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover. I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also

the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.