Brian and James Fuck Each Other - Episode 89 : Se7en with Matthew Tallon

Episode Date: October 9, 2020

Brian, James and special Guest Matthew Tallon talk about the movie Se7en, insta: @tallonmatthew

okay everybody we start the show we're going to talk about the film seven yes yes but david fincher yeah we're joined again by matthew tallon yes yeah because i was like going to talk about seven yeah a sick twisted film who could we possibly get his mind is depraved enough yeah who better to capture both john doe and kevin spacey rolled into one yeah someone who would like look at like the john dole plan and be like lame yeah what a sim i could do something way but more original It was a little bit lame as planned It is pretty lame It's pretty lame

Like we're going to go through the whole film Okay Step by step But let's just say to start Seven is a good film But John Doe's plan is so boring It's so boring What the kill?

The whole thing's like They'll remember this for years Yeah And basically Oh you call off a woman's head Yeah Why should I care He should have seen Tiger King

Yeah Yeah and Brad Pitt is not like wrath he doesn't get angry in the rest of the movie until the very very end you know because gluttony he kills I would say that he is because he's kind of like the young hot tempered

he's always like come on let's go let's fucking get this guy he's young and hot-headed the gluttony guy is the fattest man who has ever been born he's very fat yeah and like the lawyer guy is like the most evil lawyer in the world and then Brad Pitt like kind of loses his temper

he's like hey that wasn't Nice. Become grass. Imagine if he was just really annoyed with Gwyneth Paltrow. Yes, for a ten. Like, oh, you caught her head off. We won't have to listen to her talk about her rocks. Spoilers.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You should have just killed Gwyneth Paltrow at the start of the movie because she embodies like all of the seven deadly sins and like 30 more God could even think of. Well, look, we're going to go to, I have a few problems with the film. Now, I like to film a lot. Now, you watched it recently, Matthew? Yeah, I watched it on like 30.

And you haven't watched it since. Not recently, but I've seen it a few times. You watch it for your first community. Union, didn't you? Yes, I did. Yeah, I was made to sit down and watch it as like, No way. That would be great.

That would be cool. No, I wouldn't put it past them, but no, no. In fact, the rhetoric that was shoved down my throat was a lot more alarming than the movie seven. But anyway, hey, that's a whole other episode. Seven seems pretty woke compared to, like. It's just a monon priest. Yeah.

Okay, so let's start off the movie seven. Yes. David Fincher? Yep. We should start a bit of background. to the film okay oh okay so the film seven yeah was written by a man who worked in tower records okay okay that makes a lot of sense yeah yeah still lives with his mom kind of uh he's angry angry at the world yeah he's like yeah it's really the movie seven is the most successful

manifesto that's ever been yeah yeah he key instead of releasing it online he got it commissioned by hollywood he has to do all these fucking annoying customers he's like i'll show you Don't know the difference between jazz and R&B. You fucking don't know new metal. Okay, so he wrote this script, okay, and he got a shopped around Hollywood. Yeah. Now, the producers changed it for a more classic ending. Didn't like the head-in-the-box ending.

They didn't like that? No, I didn't like that at all. I think that makes sense. There's not that many head-in-a-box endings. That's not how, like, back-to-the-future ends or something. That's not like a big blockbuster. Marty! It was like, I went back in time.

It already had happened again. I just cut it off myself. Keeps going back in time to save it over and over. But it was okay back in the day. It was okay in the 50s. Cut a girl's head off near the mall shop. Okay, so there was two endings, okay? There was a head in the box ending,

and a more traditional thing, like a car chase kind of ending. And they catch them and, you know. And what happened is there was one David Fincher to direct this, Okay, right, right. And they sent him by accident the wrong script. Yeah. Okay. They sent him the dark version.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he was like, I love this. And he was like, I only doing this. I won't do the other version. Right. And because they had like, I think they already kind of got like, they want like, oh, we'll get like Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman. Sure.

Because they had them on the side and Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman, but like, no, he wanted to do the head in the box ending. Okay. Right, right, right. Then the studio were like, fine, let you do it. And so, like, was this his, this is his second film. The only film he's done before that was Alien Tree. It seems weird that he had that clout to do that

Because 803 was a bomb It's because he had Pitt and Freeman On his side On his own he wouldn't Well he was big Like he did the Vogue video That was probably the biggest video That's true

He worked with Madonna and 9 inch nails Like he definitely People saw he had talent Yes And like Alien Tree Even though I watched it recently It's not good No

And I watched the assembly coat Which is meant to be the good version And it's still not good It does look nice And I think most people involved to understand like, yeah, they started the film without, like nine different scripts

and they kept changing it. Because it seems cool. He would be very good at making like an alien movie. Yeah. Well, he said like making alien tree was like being raped or something like that.

Yeah. He literally said it was like having like colon cancer or something like like he said something, yeah. He said it was like the worst experience ever. Like being raped by colon cancer. Yeah. And then the colon cancer something comes out of his mountain going like,

ah! Yeah. but like so like they were like look this guy's worked with Donna sure and aliens and aliens two terrifying creatures which is witch so maybe he can do seven yeah so and before they cast pit and freeman yeah to see other people they were thinking of okay denzil washington turned it down really he said the script was too evil oh really yeah for which role was he going to be cast the brad pit role i think yeah the younger he would have been about that age yeah and uh petino Pachino would have been great

That would have been great As the Freeman role He turned it down to do a film called City Hall City Hall Yeah Of course we're all big City Hall fans Cinematic masterpiece

That is City Hall That's what Pachino's best I think Bad and City Hall Him and John Cusack Oh okay I think is the mayor And Mayor's son

Or something like that It is amazing how after the Godfather 3 Al Pacino just loses all taste Inlaw project he's gonna pick Yeah it's true Well he gave up acting for like four years, four or five years. Really?

I think he gave a bathroom for like a lot longer than that, but, uh... No, uh, well, I get, you're, you're trying to be mean here. Oh, I said... Yeah, I thought that's what we... Yeah, yeah. You're familiar with that, aren't you? That makes you feel big, does it? Here, that's a real comedian right there.

You could learn a thing or two. Yeah. I'm tearing out all the golden eyes. Every time Mati makes a joke. All the sacred cows. Every time Matty makes a joke, I'm like, what are you talking about? What? That isn't true.

Is that an irony? Yeah, okay. That shouldn't be allowed. You're not playing by the rules of the podcast. And one other person that they were considering for like a minute, still owned. Oh, that would not have been good. Wait, as Kevin Spacey or?

No, no, no. I don't like this guy's really fat. You got to work out. You got to be tough. I'm a tough guy. See my arms. I ain't no fat guy. All right.

And that broad, she wouldn't suck it. So I killed her. What are you going to do? Huh? When life gives you lemons, you got to fight back, you know? No, I think they wanted him as like the pit role. Okay, yeah, that would not have worked. Now, for John Dole, what they really wanted to get, who they really wanted to get, Kilmer.

Val Kilmer, that would have been, I think that could work. It would have, yeah. Val Kilmer, I think is better than any of the movies he ever did. I think that would have been cool if he was a weird serial killer. We need one, like, film like that would killmer, back in his prime, not now. Not, no, no, he can't even talk, no, like, yeah, yeah. Not the snowman, okay. Snowman?

Yeah. Is that a Kilmer movie? That's, yeah, yeah, yeah. One that came out like three years ago. Oh, right. That's bleak. Yeah. But, so that was who they're drinking again, but eventually they ended up with, what the

perfect choice is, Pitt, Freeman, they got them at the right time. Yes, I think they work very well in the movie, like, yeah. Right before Freeman kind of became like a self-parity almost. Yes. It's when he was acting. Yeah. And it's kind of interesting how, like, this film does not feel like it came out in 95.

No. What do you mean? Like, you feel like it came out later? If you told me 2003, I'd believe it. I think it helps as well that the three people main people in are people that don't really age. Yeah. Well, Kevin Spacey arguably. He has aged somewhat.

Yeah. Not like a fine wine. But anyway. Yeah, I get what you mean Just the look of it as well I think that like everyone around like 2012 or something was making movies that look like David Fincher movies

Like House of Cards when that was really big Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Well, the great, I think the color grading really helps in the way it's made And, um Yeah, like it is, it's very gloomy And like it's always raining It's kind of like aesthetically

It has similarities to like Blade Runner, you know what I mean? There's like a real claustrophobic feel Just from the visuals Yeah, it feels like you're just kind of in this horrible, dirty, dank city that's just riddled with crime, you know what I mean? It's incredibly well made, which is weird because you go from this film

to the game, which feels like it was made in, like, 91. Yeah, okay? And then Fight Club, which actually I would... If you told me, like, he made Fight Club and then Seven. I believe it. Fy Club feels like a first movie or something. It feels very...

Well, it feels very 90s. Yeah. Well, it is, like, but... The title of seven is very dated. I feel like that's not something that we don't... The seven and thing. Yeah, yeah. It's actually spelled with a seven.

That's so awesome. It's so awesome. That is literally, it's like the cover of like an album from Papa Roach or something. They have like the number seven in the word. I just pressed seven-year-old would come up. But no, just think of a guy working in Tower Records, okay? He writes the word seven. He's like, wait a minute.

He puts the seven, said it. E, and he's like, I quit. It's like a beautiful mind. The Russell Crowe character just appears in front of him, like, ah. You walk into his office, and he just is a bunch of sevens. He's putting it in different places. What are at the end? I'd like to think that he just came up with title first.

Yeah. No script. He's like, I'm done. The rest will come later on. This thing will write itself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, let's start with the film, okay? So we start off at Morgan Freeman.

Yeah. He's a cop. and he's a little bit compassionate still Like one of the very first scenes is There's like two dead parents, okay Yeah And Morgan Freeman is like Did the kids see their dead corpses?

Yes The other cops like Why the fuck do I care? What do I care? The cops? Some little assholes He's the meanest cop He is like

Why do I do give a fuck? Wait ask me questions Hey tell you what They'll toughin to get up All right his character building I saw my parents get fucking whacked Look at me now. They were in the North Tower.

Oh, wait, that ain't even happening yet. And I don't give a fuck. I'm not supposed to say that. I'm not supposed to give it away. Hey, I'm going to have a girl's own over. It would be funny because he gives a whole, like, who gives a fuck? Okay, why should I care if the kid sees his dead parents? Funny if the kid was just standing there.

Hey, welcome to big school. The kid calls Morgan Freeman a pussy. Okay, so yeah. But the kid, Morgan Freeman's like, we got a, you know, he's still got a bit of compassion. Yeah. I think he says, he makes a really lame joke as well. He's like, a crime of passion. And he's like, yeah, look at all that passion on the wall.

And they're like, that's not what it means. You're a homicide detective. You make that joke every time. That he's working at his five minutes. Okay, so then he meets his new partner, I mean, Brad Pitt. It's like, I got to work with this guy. Sexy Brad Pitt, fresh off, meet Joe Black. seen that? I have not. I've seen the one clip

of it with the car. Awful, but anyway. Is that what made him famous? That was kind of like his first, like, big starring role, because obviously his first movie was like Thelman Louise and he takes his shirt off and everyone is like that. Heck, it's going to be a star. Hello. Yeah, and so, like, Mitcho Black, what is he, like, an angel or something really

dumb like that? He gets hit by Carr in it. I know, I've seen that one scene. I think he comes back like, like, as, like, an angel from heaven or some stupid shit like that. I think he is dead. I think Joe Black, he is death. Oh, right. And he be friends in all. old man and the old man's

like maybe I can teach you a thing or two and then I know they play checkers and play a game of checkers so it's him and Brad Pitt

now Freeman and Pitt their first case debt by spaghetti that's right big old fat guy now what I like in this film is these are silly

the guy was killed with spaghetti yeah he was forced fed spaghetti and he's got like his feet are tied together with like razor wire. It's very

gross. Like he is morbidly obese. He's a really fat guy. He's dead. Faced down in a bowl of spaghetti with like razor wire tied up. He's all vainy and shit. It's very unpleasant to look at. So let's rate the sins okay as we go along. Who do we think

that might deserve it the most? That and also like who was it carried out the best? Like it's just all together. That's the only one that you can start with I think is because it's the only one that like you can actually understand what it means now. I don't know what the fuck wrath is unless I watch

yeah and visually it's a good way to get the attention yes it definitely does like it leaves an impression and like it's even it's very like isn't there like a different bucket one for shit and piss and puke or something like that? Yeah yeah like it's silly yes it's very very seriously yeah they treat it like

another case of death by spaghetti these spaghetti crimes need to stop through the roof in his precinct okay and we meet this captain

or Learmy oh yeah yeah from full metal jacket yeah who's great yeah he's really good in this but he's not even

he's not like like a caricature or like over the top like he is in full metal jacket he's actually legit acting is he the fucking drill sergeant from full metal jacket

I was wondering he would never think that because he's not screaming no it's a very like reserved understated performance the movie is full of the shaft is the district attorney yeah and fucking john c mcginley is in it it's great yeah yeah john c mcginley's great as well johns mcgillie mcgillie he just yells he yeah

they give him the fucking drill sergeant role he's just going this fucking cocksucker's dead yeah apparently in the DVD commentary uh pit and fincher just go off on john c mcgillies just how much they love him really yeah for ages so he turns up to like this guy i fucking love this guy oh cool yeah Apparently he's good hang. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's great in a talk radio. You ever see that?

Yeah, all those Oliver Stone movies. He's good in. Anyway. So, okay. Oh, I was going to say as well, I looked up, so R. Lee Ermey had a show called Locked and Loaded. It's kind of like a reality show about guns. Yeah, yeah.

It's about him hosting a show about guns. And I recommend go on YouTube and looked up locked and loaded uncensored. It's like four hours. as longer. Yeah. It's like Jerry Springer too hot for TV.

Oh, nice. Yeah, it's like him swearing and, you know, gets his tits out. Yeah. Awesome. No, it comes out dressed like the KKK.

White power. God, Jerry Springer was great. Yeah, you could just have like KKK guys on. He's like, it could crack. Let's hear what they have to say. Anyway.

And it's not unsurprising. Yeah, there's no twists in terms of KKK. Too hot for TV, indeed. Okay. Okay. And then there's another murder. right?

Oh yeah, what's the second one? His name is Eli Gould. Oh, yeah, the lawyer. Yeah, he's a lawyer. See how I knew that just from the name? We'll just call him Elliot Gould. Elliot Gould.

Okay. He's bled out and does it cut out a pound of flesh? Ah, yes. And the word greed is written in blood. Pound of flesh, merchant of Venice. Yeah, that's it. Experian vibes. Yeah, okay.

I like that. So, what do you think about this one for greed? Do you think that's a good killing? No. I mean, look, again, it's very silly and over the top, the sort of pound of flesh and like, but he made him like, uh, he had, pick it. Yeah, he had to like decide where to like cut the, to get the pound of flesh and he bled out, obviously. And it doesn't make that much sense because Shylock is the greedy one in the merchant of Venice. Yeah.

He's the one who wants the pound of flesh. Yes. Hmm. Um, so yeah. Well, I think maybe the argument is that the lawyer is like kind of the Shylock character is, that he profits off the like the way that he like gets like criminals off is kind of

you know symbolically or metaphorically he's getting his pound of flesh you know what I mean like he's that's I don't know I don't know it's you could really I think these two though like if you had to do greed this is the best way to do it okay otherwise it would be like

oh he was they shoved money in his mouth yeah yeah that would be more fun actually clubney and greed are kind of the same thing that's what I was thinking They could just do the spaghetti one again. He bought all this spaghetti. Yeah, they leave the receipt for the spaghetti. It's like two for one deal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we meet Gwinnett Paltrow. That's Brad Pitt's wife. Yeah, who's great in this film. I forgot, like she's actually very good. She's actually likable, yeah. She's got a few good movies. Oh, yeah, she's actually, because, you know,

unfortunately with Paltrow now, you kind of think about pussy rocks and stuff, you know? Yeah, like fanny candles. But she's good in Royal Tenen bombs. Yes, she is, yeah. now well like the scene i mean you probably will get to it but just that scene with her and morgan freeman in the cafe yeah is actually great like you know what's so funny i listen to a podcast called the rewatchables yes and it's hosted by sports guys okay yeah yeah so they're like

look at movies isn't always like you know as uh they're not like cinefiles right right and sometimes you come out from like a sporty kind of point of view kind of like more manly point of view yeah so the other way in that she's like oh i have a baby i don't know how to tell Yeah, yeah. They were like, why? Why would you be afraid? Why would you be afraid tell your husband

you have a kid? This is weird. This really took me out of the film. This is the one unbelievable part of this whole picture. She's having emotions. Yeah, they were kind of like that. Like, wait, you don't think

your husband might react well to the baby? Then why are you married to him? This movie makes no sense. What do you think actually of the scene when he goes to have dinner with them? Okay.

And the train is shit. That's a real sitcomy team. It was very sickcommy. It was very like, yeah, and then he starts laughing and then, yeah, it was very cheesy. Like the kind of, then like they cut away. It's the wide shot of the three of them going, ah, ha, ha, ha, ha. It's like, oh, now they're friends. That's what that means.

Well, no, three minutes starts laughing first. Yeah, yeah. I would not laugh with it. No, you wouldn't. If I bought a shitty house that, like, rocks every 10 minutes, which probably could cause, like, serious, like, uh, like distress. Sure. and would like fuck up your sleep patterns and like a pregnant woman as well

that's probably not good for the baby all that rocking around and now just like some now his lad laughing at me I'd go rat there and then I'd knock his block off yeah yeah yeah I don't know it is a little bit

silly and cheesy and very like very 90s Hollywood but whatever it's up there like you know the way to go like oh I forgot to pay the electricity and the lights go off just then yeah because the thing is yeah like up until that point there's a lot of tension

between Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman and it kind of seems like they're not going to get along at all and then this moment attempts to break the tension I guess whether it does it or not is subjective it is a little kind of silly you really don't need them to like each other yeah it kind of works better than they don't like yeah

I think it works if you cut that scene out it still work because you're just in your head like I guess they have to work together for a while to start to like each other yeah and near the end they are kind of making a few little jokes they do kind of yeah they grow on each other, yeah. I think they probably just stuck it in there

so you cared when Guinephalchro dies. Because like... Well, no, you'd care just with this diner scene. Yeah, the diner scene is great. The diner scene is really good. I actually love that scene, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's, yeah, it's kind of corny, the train stuff.

Yeah. It just, it definitely does feel like a, it's a little bit of a laugh here. Yeah. Yeah, it is kind of, it is sort of maybe some studio exact was like, oh, they're two, they don't get along very well, and the audience aren't going to like that. we need them we need like a warm moment

because arguably it's a very dark and depressing film overall so any bit of levity sprinkled in there was probably uh they were probably really pushing for that maybe I don't know probably and maybe just to give Paltrund or seeing even the fact that like she invites

Freeman without Pitt and Owen that's a that's very sitcomy as well but not in a terrible way that works I think yeah I think the movie's walking the line the whole way through because even the fat guy thing is like so grotesque that it's almost funny and there's a bunch of those jokes in it. I think, yeah, I think

that's more unintentional or just sickos like us find it really funny. Eat that fat fucking spaghetti, you cut. Yeah, we'd be laughing like Cape Fear. Just in the cinema and smoking a cigar. Actually, did you ever see the movie the butterfly effect? There's a scene in the butterfly effect where like

the kids, when they're kids, they go to the movie and watch seven. And like, the little bully kid is like oh look at that fat fuck his tinnies are bigger than your moms so it's like excuse me you'd be quiet and you guys like

shut up you fie you know what he says I won't say it but they say finok yeah they say he says shut up you fanook that's funny because Pete says finok in this film

yeah remember that you're like okay you're a detective all right you have to read one book about Dante learn about the sins And he's like Fucking Dante fucking Beem

That's such a weird scene Yeah This fucking dumb book He gets so angry about a book Oh, it'll get it I remember writing that damn Because the way they shoot it It's like an action movie

He sprints over to his car In the rain Runs into it takes out the book Readers over three seconds And goes This cock-sucking poet Fucking Fuck

throws it out of the car He gets so angry at it Yeah, I bet you like the guy's From rewatchable's like Yeah, all right You're standing up for Roots Against Books We're sick of his shit

Who's this fucking Dante guy Think he is The Gio's fucking comedy I watch that fucking Lee Evans guy Way funnier than Dante Fucking sweating all the time It's fucking great But yeah that's like

I actually forgot all about that That's so funny He gets so angry Because he reads a book He's like It's like arguably you're a detective Isn't like a big part of your job having to like analyze data and like go through it for facts or whatever but yeah

every time it's to read anything he just freaks out okay so we find our next victim okay slot sloth so he's a what do you think he's a dead guy okay on the bed oh yeah basically a skeleton and this is a great scene i think and then he moves they all freak out they all freak out good the fuck yes yeah johnsey mcginley freaks out so good so it's like he's a junkie but like uh Yeah, so he's on the bed, and he's literally, it's like a, like he's a semi-decomposed corpse. He's a skeleton, skin and bones. He looks like a zombie, and they're all like, ah, he's obviously dead. And then he kind of moves and everybody freaks out.

It takes them so long to figure out that he's dead as well, though, because he's lying under the covers with the thing over his head. At the point of the gun, I'm just like, wake up, you piece of shit. I don't think he's asleep. You don't get a SWAT team into your room. Wasn't it like the heat, there were air fresheners hanging all? over the room to cover the smell was that him yeah not one yeah they think that he's the killer don't they that's why they all go that's right yeah they find his fingerprints or DNA at one of the other crime scenes yeah someone's someone's

leaving clues oh very good now again this is like many films would propagate the idea that like the serial killer is like nine steps ahead of everyone else yeah yeah yeah and it's like playing an intricate game of chess yes but in real life they're just like shitting themselves and wanking like So, yeah, they get to the guy, and it's like a full SWAT team as well. This is when John C. McGinley shows up. It's like, hey, don't get in my fucking way, asshole. I'm here to lock and load.

Yeah, but they kicked down the door, they find the junkie. And then what is it? Like, how is it? Yeah, there's, like, photos dating back for, like, one year today. And, like, he took a photo of him every day and, like, just kept him tied up and gave him heroin. And yeah, yeah. So whoever this killer is, okay, he has a lot of time with his hands. He's methodical.

And he also has, like, money where he can just rent out a hotel room for a year. Yeah. And just, like, could he come back every, like... Every day. Yeah, to feed this guy. Okay, imagine his busy day. Okay, John, though, he's got, like, give one guy spaghetti. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's got to get air fresheners, spaghetti, heroin. I mean, this guy, he's got a long to-do list. Real busy, but he's doing way more of his life than I am. Yeah, a lot of errands here, you know? I would love to see, like, from his point of view where it's like, I am wrecked. Yeah, you do that. is a comedy as well it's like

it's like the guy from a home improvement is Tim Allen playing John Doe just running around all these my wife is on my back

I gotta kill this guy with like a trolley full of cans of spaghetti I have a coupon for that he's like buying a box like would a head fin is he just puts it over the cashier's head yeah that'll work

That'll work. Ring it up. Yeah, yeah. That's definitely my favorite one of the murders, I think. The guy with that... It's the most visually cool. Yeah, yeah. And the fact that he's still alive as well. Yes, yeah.

And it is a big, like, jump scare moment because the music goes boom. So proper, you shit yourself when it happens. It's very good. So now, you watched this recently, Matthew. I want to get your opinion on this. What do you think about the plot point, okay, that they go like, oh, this guy must have rented out

some pretty weird books from a library. Oh, yeah. So they get the FBI to go through, like, your library card. Yeah, that was very strange. That was like, that felt like they just needed to get to the next stage of the plot. So they just are able to call a guy who knows how to do this stuff. Doesn't that happen after Morgan Freeman? Because they find, you know, obviously at this point they put together that there are seven deadly sins.

Yeah. And that's the theme of the killings. So they figure that out first. And then they go like, okay, this guy is probably like, you know, a bunch of shit. It is a bit silly. No, no. But they actually track someone down,

they go to an apartment next. Yeah. They managed to get the guy's library card and the dress because the FBI go through like who rented out the weirdest books. Yeah, they know they go basically like, okay, so I mean, I think that's definitely

I mean, okay, maybe pre-9-11, not so much, but like the Patriot Act and all definitely with like phone conversations and the internet and stuff like that. But that would make more sense. that we found these weird messages on his Facebook account or something like that but it's like

Yeah you could have done that in 1994 But here's the thing Okay like so this is like mid-90s So domestic terrorism was the big thing In the 90s because it was just after The Oklahoma bombing with Timothy McVeigh Oh I know all about that Of course you do, who doesn't

He did great work, great man, great man Ruby Ridge all that shit So this is like pre-9-11 domestic terrorism was the big thing that the FBI were watching Maybe I'm kind of giving them too much leeway here. It is a little silly. If you said it like that,

but in the film, they find one flagged library card and they go straight to his apartment. It's not like we got a list of 50 people here and we're knocking on doors. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we went through the computer and this is the one guy

who rented out a book about Dante. Right, okay. Yeah, the only guy who ran. Yeah. Everyone else, no one else would dare. Yeah. Like Brad Pitt. Dante on how to kill a guy with spaghetti

for dummies. Brad Pitt had a dress. asses that he's like uh well how are we how do we know we're not just going to get some english lit major doing a term paper and it's like you fucking would yeah every single you get manny manny you just go to you just end up at new york university yeah break it into dorm rooms yeah we found spaghetti in the kitchen this is our guy yeah yeah anyone with they go that would literally be like same as they were like okay anyone who's bought spaghetti in the last five months yeah yeah it's spaghetti You sick bastard.

We got him, chief. You sick, son of a bitch. Yeah. And they're like, we got the FBI to help. Bring up the spaghetti file, boys. Instead of a library card, like, there's a flagged spaghetti card. David Dukalbany just runs the spaghetti department of the FBI. Oh, fuck, that's so good.

Yeah, it's one of those things. You know when you see a movie Real Young and you love, it so much that like I don't know your brand just like won't allow you to like notice the glaring flaws yeah I get that yeah to be fair I think this stuff with seven you only notice if you're like watching it and dissecting it because it's so fucking entertaining yeah exactly like let it wash over you oh yeah along for the ride obviously this is just for the podcast yeah in real life I'm actually like wait a minute uh someone get me fincher okay so they tracked down one a apartment.

Yes. They go to it, okay, and they're knocking the door. And like you said, Matthew, it's like, it could be a student.

Yeah. And, you know, Freeman's like, no, this is him. This is the guy. Okay, a guy shows up. Yeah.

Down the hall. We don't see his face, so just like a shadowy figure. Yeah. And we're like, what's he going to do? Yeah. Pulls out a gun.

Bang, bang. Bang. Bang. Skiddy bapap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we got pit chasing him. Yes. Yeah, yeah,

you saw the chase scene recently, Matthew, What do you think of that? It's okay. I didn't really notice that much about the chase scene. Standard chase scene, I would say. I think it's probably the most, like, generic part of the movie is just throw in a chase scene. You got a problem with it, O'Toole.

You got a problem with the chase scene? The exact opposite. I got a little fact for you that will make the chase scene better. Impossible. No way. Impossible. Couldn't happen. Couldn't get any better.

Brad Pitt legit fucked himself up during that chase. Yeah? No way. Yeah. And then he broke his arm, I think. No shit. Yeah. And you all, later on, he's got cast.

That's real. Fuck off. And Fitzro's like, I love it. Oh, man, that's great. I think it's the bit where he falls up. Isn't he like going down like a fire escape? Yes. He just gives up and fucking falls on the dumpster or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's such a great shot. Because you can tell from how long it is that it's not a fucking stunt dump. Yeah, yeah. That's the proper like Tom Cruise style, like just doing his own stunts, but not intentionally. Yeah, because he's not a Scientologist. That's why his arm didn't heal. That's right.

He doesn't have the power of Zeno. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good, no, I like that. Wow, Brian, thank you. See? Yeah. I'm not a piece of shit, am I? Well.

Now, maybe you'll think again next time you'll judge me for looking up my hero. Yeah, on the last podcast, I were looking up. I was just looking up my hero for 20 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great show. It is. BBC really did themselves justice. Our little handman actually broke his arm when punching the woman.

No, I don't know. I've never seen it. Go on. All, seven, here we go. Okay, so they do it. And it's kind of like, it's a fun chase. Now, near the end, okay, yeah, the mysterious person gets the upper hand.

He does. Has the gun on pit, the sides. Yeah, it's, like, face down. I think, like, he, like, turns the corner and the guy cracks him over the head with, like, a pipe or something. So, Pitt's, like, down on the ground, and the guy, like, puts a gun to his head, but doesn't shoot him. Toying with him. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Because he's, like, it's not time yet.

Yeah, my grandmaster plan. I have more spaghetti to buy You're lucky I got to go to the store Right now I would love it if they had him run off And a cat of spaghetti He falls out This would be so much better

To just give up on the whole seven aspect It's just the spaghetti Every time Here's a calling card again Just wet spaghetti Oh yeah You just thought it was like those alphabet Spaghetti

You're spelling out his messages. So anyway, they head back to the apartment then. Yeah. Afterwards and they're going through. And it's a proper serial killer movie apartment. Sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's shit everywhere.

It's dark. It's weird. There's notebooks everywhere. Yeah. Now, apparently, I don't know why it'd bother doing this, but Fincher actually got people to fill up all those notebooks. Really? Really?

Yeah. Why? That's so stupid. Imagine being the one guy. guy who's like for next like i think it took like three months my job just fill up notebooks so it was just weird shit i feel like the kind of guys who love david fincher he could have just found a guy who's like i have all these notebooks anyway you can use them for the movie yeah i like the notebook angle of it though when he just picks it up and starts reading

some of this stuff is so funny yeah it's so funny like that subway story or whatever is really good where he's basically like someone trying to have a small talk with me and like vomited Yeah, something like The banality of his conversation gave me a headache. I almost didn't notice it, but I threw up all over him. He was not pleased,

and I couldn't stop laughing. It's funny how you remember the whole thing. Yeah, you haven't seen an agent. I know, but I'd seen it many times before, but that bit stuck out. I was like, yes, yes. That's the kind of thing that would have gotten... I hate small talk.

I would have gotten Bert Kreisner elected class president. Yeah, yeah. The way that Evan Wilder was based on Berr, Chrysher's Life, 7 is based on my notebooks. Yeah, my diaries. Okay, so next they find another victim, okay? Okay.

Now, this is definitely the most scintillating victim, okay? Oh, yeah. What does that mean? Sintillating. Sintillating, yeah. Sintillating. Sin, like seven deadly. Yeah, okay, all right.

Don't be using your big fancy words on me. Did you not read that party from the memo from the green party? But I don't use big words. Okay, this one, this is probably the most famous death. Yeah, this is really fucked up. The knife dildo. Yes. That's so.

Yeah, or nay. Oh, I think that makes it. That's great, yeah. Because the way they do it is good. It's not like they just walk in in the crime scene, and you just pan over to a big knife dildo. It's like you see a tight, like a polaroid of it in like the background of the show. Yeah, it looks very nine-inch nails. Yes, it's very, yeah, very nine-inch.

It doesn't look like someone... It looks like someone just made it themselves. Yeah, like they smelted it themselves. Like in a metal shop or something? Yeah, yeah. It does look like it would be covered in aisle. You know, it doesn't look nice. No.

The knife dildo does not look nice. No, it doesn't look like a lot of fun. I don't think you'd even work as a dillow, to be honest. No. Well, it didn't. It didn't. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I think about what sells that as well is, they interview the guy who was forced to fuck him. He's terrified. He's freaked. That's what sells it. He's great. That's a. his name is Leland Orser or something like that

he's like a really good character actor that's been in loads of shit but yeah he's great in that scene and he's terrible he's real shaky and all yeah yeah he's great that works way more than actually showing like a woman getting killed

with a knife deal though would be too much and also like people like us would get good chuckle out of it yeah I think they've already they know that they've already done like the fat guy

and they've already done like the zombie who's still alive they can just keep on going for gore. So like now they know like kind of less is more let your imagination run wild with you because that's what it like

you're kind of forced to think oh Jesus a knife in your imagination it's so much but you're not going to get an actress who can convey that as bad as in my memory is not my memory my mind

I was like I wonder what that would look like I'd like to see your first knife dildo prototype you fuck it up and use a butter knife it's like ah it won't work it's a spoon it's a spoon just a spork that was

jigs well it's literally just a spork there's no dildo at all no strap on you just try and prit sticking onto your trousers nice

so yeah like so what does it exactly happen so like the John Doe serial killer was in the room and held a gun

on the guy to a girl's tied up yeah the girl's tied up and put a gun on the guy and said you have put on that knife dildo and fuck her

He was already there fucking the girl anyway, wasn't he? Yeah, I think he was just like a customer of the prostitute. Yeah. Yeah, but he put the gun in his mouth and everything. Oh, right, okay. Yeah, he was a proper going to do it. Yeah. It's strange that he, not to be all logical on Kevin Spacey, the serial killer,

but I feel like you would kill the guy for lust more than, because a sex worker, that's like her job. It's like going into Walmart and being like, you love the serving customers. Later on, he says that she was a filthy whore. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's not lust It's still like wrong In his head he probably thinks like he's being punished

Because he has to live With the Yeah, with the guilt That he did it like yeah I mean that would fuck you up for life Like every time you get hard You just remember the knife dildo But Matthew you are right

Like in a perfect world It would be the man getting killed In a perfect world He would have killed the guy With a knife dildo In my walk The woke The woke three mates

You know like the female ghost busters do the female seven okay and the woman has to wear a knife strap on yeah that like vibrates yeah and fuck the man she fuck him yeah and she's just like

after she's like yeah she's not shaking her no problem she's like she's just like yes queen the rest of the movie exact same yeah just that one bit but yeah that one that like when I saw that movie for the first time

when I was like 13 or 14 that bit really stuck with me like it's pretty fucking horrific 13 is pretty young to see that yeah it was

yeah I was around the same age yeah it was on TG Carr I think I'm pretty was it in Irish that'd be great

I'd see one no ads just full seven baby oh that's true yeah yeah God saved the queen

yeah that must have been rough you're like and Annie made me fuck her with the knife and then it's like ah

on hurling and yeah Tipperary versus Kilkenny this weekend I just die

oh shit does the intro No Jesus there's an absolute mad joke getting up to all sorts

of badness here it's like a temporary county vinyl eh go kill yourself

die nah he's great I'm joking he's good man he should be hosting the late

late days he should be he's too sexy that's what it is I think yeah it would cause problem

too much sex appeal yeah all these old women would start like just acting weird beetle

yeah he'd be like where's me where's my knife dildo though what are we out here? We're doing good

We're doing good So next we get So so far All these killings I love Yes Not love is in like Fucking legend Yeah

Good to clarify Yeah I'm just like Yeah That makes sense Maybe greed You could have done A bit better I would have liked it

It'd be a bit more Like he got crushed By coins Or something like that You know That would have been good I was my coin Yeah

Yeah I think that'd be good You could You could You could He's in a room Okay And every day

John Doe Like Dick Doc, he's just got a big vault filled with gold coins. What the fuck he's talking about? Every day John Doe drops a penny in. Just into a piggy bag. So after 300 days,

just a small pile of pennies in the corner. Just $3. Just holds his face down in the pennies. Yeah, I know. It was something fun, you know. But look, this is my least favorite killing.

All right. Okay, the next one. Pride. I don't remember Pride and I watched it like two days ago. Pride is the model is the lamest one

there is did he like yeah he slashes her face and then he glues a phone in one hand and a bottle of pills and the other

giving her the choice do you call for help or do you kill yourself really dumb like yeah does John Doe noble plastic surgery yeah I know yeah it's so dumb

you can fix the nose yeah he cut off her nose to spite her face They actually say that. Yeah, they do say it. That's so lame. And I think everyone involved

to the film realize how dumb it was because they just skim over that so quick. Yeah, they forget about. Oh yeah, a woman got killed as well. I think they literally, probably in the first draft, somebody reread it and we were like, you only did six sins. And he was like, fuck.

Better throw this one in. Like, they really skim over it. It's actually funny how just walk into a room go like, oh yeah, she's there as well. Probably another sin. Now, what would your, what would be a good? pride killing.

Let's try come up with a good one. This is a good one now. Let's all think down. No wrong answers. No wrong. This is brainstorm. There's no wrong answers. Come on.

How would we kill a woman? How would we kill a woman? It's still has to be... Let me get out my notebook. It still has to be an attractive woman. It doesn't have to be attractive woman, no. Oh, yeah, actually. Could be a man.

Yeah, men are proud too sometimes. I would pick a man. We get a proud point. We kill one of the proud points. Yeah, that's how we do it. Sorry, alright, go on. Yeah, it would be something like, it was half be something like he'd get killed with gym

equipment. Okay. Like Chris Benoit on the Bowflex. Yeah, but have to be vanity though. Couldn't he be proud of like his children or something? How would you kill him with, well, put children in his mouth? Force feed his kids spaghetti and then drop some coins on him. Find New York's best spaghetti chef

who's so proud of his spaghetti. Oh, it would be something like you sold, let's see, I'd give a, I'd sell a special juice that makes someone look prettier but it's poison

that's not that would nobody would believe that that's in his fucking stupid killed with plastic surgery movie that could be a good one

that would be a good one if the collagen or something was oh okay okay because it's seven okay fake tits yes that would actually

you make her fake tits so big that thing they crush her chest and her yeah yeah yeah that's perfect cut off her tits to spider face it's coins right Brian or sment

cement cement tinn oh no I got it okay you give her sment titties drop her in the ocean brilliant yeah I like it yeah like an old witch it's like if the titties float but yeah now the plastic surgery is a good angle yeah like but you actually kill a plastic surgeon I think because he's like the one that like that yeah yeah

Well, that was Matthew's suggestion. But the collagen? Yeah, I think the collagen would work. I like my big titty's idea. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. We can go halfway. Yeah, yeah.

I like the cement titties. Okay. So they're like, oh, God, there's only like two sins left and we have no leads at all. Right, right. What are we going to do? And then someone walks into the station. Detective! Hey, girl, stand down.

He literally goes like, detective! Like his voice goes, really. Because he says it like, he's like, Detective, and they're just having a conversation, Detective! And everybody turns and loves it. His hands are all bloody and stuff.

It's like, I think you're looking for me. Yeah. And then Brad Pitt's like, hey, get down. He's obviously not running away. He came in here with his hands in the air. Brad Pitt, he's trying to make it escape. Brad Pitt's like, I caught him. I solved the case.

He just plants a cat of spaghetti on him. He's our man. yeah that's why i think though what makes the movie though like elevates it to a whole new level the fact that he yes because it's like then you're like

I have no idea what the fuck is about to happen in this movie Fincher said that's exactly why he loved it because it was like the last like little half and the guys just shows up like wait what's gonna happen here there's no way they how are they going like yeah yeah you completely it's the only like this genre movie

never has like a curveball like that yeah exactly yeah yeah and also the choice and, like, not have Spacey in any of the trailers. Yeah, that works on two levels now. That's like... It's like, when you're watching the movie

and you find out it's Spacey, it's like doubly horrific. Oh, my God. Imagine you're one of his victims, okay? I want to go take my mind off this horrible event. And you see the poster, you're like, well, I don't see... You scan a...

I don't see any species in this. Freeman, Pitt. Yeah. You're like, it's the usual. suspects in one cinema and seven the other one. You're like, I'll know he'll be safe here.

Okay. So then, so they've arrested them, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Toby Ziegler from the West Wing shows up playing the lawyer. Yes, that was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he's great as a smarming like, my client. Yeah. And so the deal is the... He basically, there's... So Kevin's Pacey, John Doe, says there's two more bodies.

and I will take you to where they are buried but only Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt can take me I don't want anybody else there and if you don't agree I'll never tell you where the bodies are and blah blah blah so it's kind of like... And I'll plead insanity Yeah I'll plead insanity and stuff like that Which would that make much of a difference?

I mean I don't know You could argue definitely It didn't make a lot of sense that whole scene Well it's more just for the bodies like Yeah you really needed a setup that for now Even Brad Pitt is like you and your fucking $3,000 suit and the guy's literally wearing

like a travelling salesman bright blue bow tie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's probably not making that much money off, Spacey. Although they do say that John Doe is wealthy, he must be wealthy. Independently wealthy. And well educated. Well, educated, that's right. Which I like that little

hints. Yeah, yeah. And that's really the only kind of glimpse of a backstory you get. Now, I'll tell you... That's kind of all you need. I'll tell you what, though. And I might read this from another episode. they released a comic book Adaptation of Seven from John Doe's point of view

Oh I like that Yeah that's pretty good And I think it was written by like The screenwriter or something like Like it's someone connected to the actual It's not just like Oh we got the guy who writes Spider-Man to do it That seems to happen with Fincher a lot

Because didn't the Fight Club guy Make a Fight Club comic book as well? Fight Club too, yeah Oh nice Which I paid money for it and I feel really bad about now Was it dumb? It was really dumb I think I mentioned it on the podcast before, but he literally, Chuck Paltanac,

he shows up at the end and criticises people because they... Oh, like, he criticises, like, Twitter mobs and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, you shouldn't be mean to me on Twitter. Yeah, he was on Joe Rogan, and he just came across as real weird and kind of like edge lordy, you know what I mean? Kind of like how you'd expect him to be, but not how you'd want him to be. I'd say the book is a piece of shit.

I haven't read it, but I'd say that, like, Fincher elevates it. Yeah, yeah. Fincher does elevating. Anyway, so they're in the car now heading off to the bodies Yes, yeah This is great because Spacey gets to have a little monologue Yeah, and he really nails this monologue

This scene goes on for like seven minutes It's terrific, just to slow everything right down It doesn't, yeah, it feels great though Like the whole, you're not like, oh, when is they gonna get To the fireworks factory You know, you're really invested like And as you said, like his monologue is It's a fat man who is fat

So disgusting if you saw him, it'd make you see sick and the whore who was a whore? Yeah, yeah. And the lawyer who was... I love he's like, the lawyer who lied. And who's the pederast? Is the lawyer not the pederast? No, no, no, no. The sloth was the pederast.

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, because the sloth was a mass. He was a killer himself. Oh, that's why they tracked him down. But that's what he was like, he was... This is the bit. He goes like, and a lazy bum, lazy all his life. who also raped kids

but he was lazy didn't mow the lawn so yeah yeah yeah wrote down to himself like one line is like

because the whole thing is like Brad what kicks off this monologue is Brad Pitt goes oh I thought you just murdered

innocent people and Space is like innocent is that supposed to be funny and then he goes off on the big rant and he kind of ends it with only in a world

this shitty could you say those people are innocent and keep a straight face I'm very impressed that you know man like I am John Doe really without the commitment or the

wealth. If I was independently wealthy, woo, I'd be buying spaghetti right now, I'll tell you. But I just eat it all myself and I'm like, oh, what was I meant to do? Yeah. It's kind of like we did Space Jam a while ago and James just knew every line from Space Jam. It's so weird with movies

I have a real like on the spectrum. Like I remember movies like dialogue that like I've seen 10 years ago. I remember dates and actors to like to an absurd degree. I mean, like, real obscure. Like, the fact that I knew Leland Orser is a character actor. Do you know what I mean?

Like, that's not right. I'm not right, Brian. Yeah, that's taken up space in your brain. Yeah, yeah. That's, like, that shit I will remember till the day I die. But my father's final words. Who cares? Yeah.

That's taking up the space that how to connect with other human beings are supposed to do. Yeah, yeah. It's just Leeland. I don't even remember his name now. Orser. But every Tinder did I have. Are you familiar with the work of Leland Orser? And then I just go to hitter.

Yeah, they all end, like, the first act of full metal jacket on the dates. You just find them in the bathroom with a shotgun. But she says, I am in a world of shit. Yeah, yeah. I like how you were saying, like, the end of the set, the first half full metal jacket. But you know, in that, the colonel's like, put the gun down. The girl's like, do whatever you want.

check please yeah yeah wait can i get the money for the food first before you do that uh you had two appetizers i am not paying for that can send me down revolut yeah okay so they drive some towers out in middle of nowhere right yeah yeah yeah and communication towers yeah yeah so i think um they're like standing there and they're like oh not much going on here they have a little bit a funny scene received dead dog oh yeah and then

Kevin Space it goes I didn't do that yeah ah you lovable rap scallion that's a little bit of like

kind of childish little tit like he has a little bit like I didn't do it like Dennis the menace yeah oh Mr. Wilson yeah

not to get too like movieish movieish here but I did notice just bring him back to the train thing at this part I think that

there was like the helicopter noises and stuff were very similar to the train in your man's apartment right before the buildup. So I kind of thought that's what that was for. It was like

building up the tension. Oh, it definitely built tension, yeah, yeah. And also the fact that we see it, you know, it's not just like, oh, cut back to the face, back to another face. And we've seen it like from a, like a weird point of view up in the sky as well. So we're like, what the fuck's going on down there? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and, um... And you just

got John C. McGinley comment thing. Yeah. What the fuck is going on there? This guy's fucking crazy. Yeah. The guy's got a fucking box. We got a box Yeah So a van comes along Yes, yeah

I love this guy He's just like Yeah, a guy paid me $500 To be here at 7 o'clock To drive a van with a smelly box With flies buzzing all around He paid me in spaghetti

So I didn't ask any questions It keeps dripping Yeah I just thought of spaghetti sauce Yeah It's so funny He's like yeah I just show up here

And he sees his helicopters Around No questions asked Yeah And there's a guy pines a gun at him I'm surprised

I still gotta give you this box okay look you can shoot me if you want but I take 500 dollar

US postal service rain hail or snow I take this job very seriously sir so I love this scene

so yeah Freeman decide he's gonna open it not wait for a bomb squad right yeah yeah

and then he opens it and he's like yeah John Doe was the upper hand yeah stay away

John Doe was the upper hand that's a great line yeah just the fact that he says like that as well. Yeah, just nose immediately.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then anyone watching us like, oh shit. What's in the box? Yeah, yeah. But they're like, you really do get a sense that like, oh, fuck he actually does with your upper hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you kind of get that sense the whole time because it's like, you know,

why did he come to the, why did he just offer himself up and he's taking them all the way out? You do get the sense, like, he's got something up his sleeve here. And it's kind of like, like one thing we mentioned, Morgan Freeman threat, the whole movie is kind of going through this arc where he doesn't really give a shit. anymore. And then when he sees the thing in the box, it's like

suddenly he's really terrified. That's actually a good, yeah, we didn't kind of mention that angle. Like, his character has become very disenfranchised and apathetic towards the horrors that he has to see every day. He's just like, there's no good in the world anymore.

He's unmarried. We see he lives, he's in a big double bed, there's no one else there. And like, he mentions he had a wife before. He had a woman and she was pregnant, but he was so he didn't want to bring up a child in the world the state that it is so he made her getting abortion yeah you're right he was a girlfriend wasn't a wife yeah yeah yeah and then they broke up obviously so now he's he's he's alone because he's kind of chosen to be alone yeah because

again just the horrors of the world he just says he can't bring a child up in all good and he's probably not that good to hang out with because you went for drinks with him you probably just bring up like yeah all these different cases of like you know people getting murdered and like one house you talk about your fucking new apartment and how horrible it is and your life miserable needs to start cackling at you

I mean this guy fat as fuck just ate all this spaghetti I don't

understand it anymore it's not really good Morgan Freeman but you know we got it

was in the ballpark yeah well also because he opens the box and he

so freaked out yeah we've seen Freeman Freeman has seen a knife dildo he has seen

didn't even break a sweat just another day in the office he has seen bodies

throughout this whole film okay yeah no reaction at all

and this is like oh shit. Yeah. So you're like, what this is? What is it? Two knife dildos.

I'm fucking a knife flashlight. Wow. For people that are really cool. Yeah. Okay. So he's a fucking, Freeman's running back. He's running back towards Brad Pitt and Kevin Spacey.

And then Spacey's like, you know, I must admit, I was envious of you and your wife. Your pretty wife. Yeah. I paid her a visit. This morning when you left for work. I tried to play husband

But she didn't like it So I took a souvenir Her pretty head And then Brad Pitt's like What's in the box What's in the box? He's like, is it a book? I better not be

Is it that Dante bitch again With his books That fucking poet Yeah So Morgan Freeman's running back And like Yeah so fucking Kevin Spacey says Basically yeah I killed

your wife and then Morgan Freeman's like Come on, don't, he's got, Brad Pitt's got the gun on him, it's like, wait, that's not true, tell me it's not true, but it is. Yeah. Gwyneth Paltrow's head is in the box. We never actually see the head, though. Which is a great choice. Yeah, that's what I was thinking when we were talking about the

knife dildo, is that like pretty much after that we don't see any fucking gruesome stuff. Yeah. The first half is so disgusting. There's no way to make that head in the box look not silly. Yeah, that's true. In my head, it looks horrendous

but probably saw it in real life it either be a fake or they have to do a thing where you don't really to bury her in the sand and then have the box around her neck and go the way to do that

you know the box of the ground and she's buried sure yeah especially because it's Gwyneth Paltrow like she's so famous it would just look ridiculous yeah also because she's hot you know yourself

like if you know yourself like if you a hot woman gets decapitated yeah it doesn't look as good you know what I mean you don't see the problem in it you're kind of like Yeah, it makes sense

Yeah But yeah No, I get what you mean It's a good choice Not to show the head in the box There is something quite funny About a decapitated head Yeah, of course

It's just a funny image Like if we saw it It would have to like roll around A little bit Yeah Morgan Freeman drops it like Oh no Butterfingers

Oh no Oh spaghetti He like dunks it Like Kobe I want to fly like an eagle Okay so yeah So now Brad Pitt's like he's come to the realization that his wife

is dead and he's got the gun on fucking Kevin Spacey and Morgan Freeman's like, if you kill him he will win. Yeah, and what's really great about that moment is that like they don't just have him kill him immediately right then and there. You watch him like think about it. Yeah, he's like starts crying

then points the gun at him in anger but then starts, it's a cool little it's interesting. I'm actually not sure how I feel about that. You know the bit he holds the gun he's really angry and then he actually starts crying and resumes his angry face point in the gun. It's like, it's good, but is it good?

I don't even know. I think it's good. I think any other actor would have gone like, you killed my wife. You bastard. Okay, like that. But like, it like has a full on like a little emotional journey. Proper, yeah, he, like he gets very tear-eyed and then, yeah.

Also, you like watch him realize nothing matters in his life anymore. Also, like the way he chose to do it, like, it's kind of, it's, it's fun to replicate what's in the box like he's saying it not in like what's in the box yeah he's actually like he's like yeah he's kind of losing it over the top he's a little bit fucking like almost Tommy Wysowish not full off yeah yeah but he is kind of just like like let's say like Denzel Washington yeah that's him okay I would not believe Denzel Washington like I think does the watchers is so cool like so badass and manly he like i think he would play it more like what's in the box yeah yeah okay and he'd like play it real like i'm getting angry here

i know you like to get wet but throughout the film pit has been shown to be a little bit of a dummy as well yeah or kind of like a naive rookie in that because they even have that conversation in the bar morgan freeman's like oh you know the world is a horrible place blah blah and brad pitt's like well you know what i don't agree with that i can't agree with that i can't agree with that because I got a wife and a kid coming, so I got to believe there's good in the world, blah, blah, blah. Well, actually, he doesn't know about the kids. Oh, does he know about the kid?

That's right, you're right, yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing I was thinking is that he doesn't kill him until he finds out that she's pregnant. Yeah. How did Kevin Spacey know that she was going to be pregnant? Probably tortured her and got the information. Yeah, probably. Or he probably, like, cut her open and looked inside.

What I mean is that his plan wouldn't have worked if she hadn't have been pregnant. uh well i think i think i think pitt probably will have shot him anyway you know it's so funny though it's so funny that like the whole film was like oh a cop loses it and shoot someone yeah who deserved it wow as if every other cop is this like well i hope that never happens to me the worst thing a police officer has ever done only in the wacky world of la la land could something be conceived like that is literally something they would try and do like you know the brianna taylor case they'd be like you she cut off my wife's head yeah well that's the things that they easily could have just been like oh yeah kevin spacey tried to run away so oh he lunged from my gun yeah yeah yeah it really isn't that big a deal no i think he's handcuffed the whole time he's handcuffed on his knees oh look unhandcuffed him pour the spaghetti on them

and just been like they're they're too detectives they can easily come up with a story of like oh he um but there's witnesses like the cops and the helicopter oh like those helicopter guys they would have those cops they're going to be like oh no we're going to the press cops can't do this Do you think John C. McGinley's a whistleblower? 100% not. Yeah, that's why he quit the cops and became a doctor.

He became dis... And then he did Scrubs. Yeah. Because he couldn't handle the police violence anymore. So, anyway, let's get to the end. That'd be great. You know how the janitor and scrubs was in the fugitive?

If Dr. Cox was in every John C. McGinley movie. Well, noobie. Yeah. Well, I was in fucking nam. I had in a hole for three days. I worked in radio, I was in Wall Street for a while

All right So anyway Pitt shoots some anyway Pit shoots them no But actually you know Yeah we forgot the little bit Where a Spacey says

Oh yeah I want to I killed your wife And the baby inside her And that's when Brad Pitt learns That she was pregnant And then Spacey's like Oh he didn't know Ha ha classic

What a goof It makes even better Get me off even more But yeah so pit shoots him then Now The original ending yeah was the original ending yeah cuts the black at the gun at the gunshot i thought that made that would have been a perfect ending for the movie i was the one i was the that's that's how everyone fought

for that fincher fought for the uh freeman fought for it just ends there yeah the bang you'll even see it actually it go in like okay yeah it's just the bang cuts the black now they tried to a test audience but they fucked up because in the test audience showing the lights for a cinema went up as soon as it went black oh right right right So you didn't even get the sense of like... You didn't get that moment to savour, like, what just happened. Yeah, yeah. It's just like, it's on, get out!

Everyone get out! All right, move along, move along. It should have been like the Sopranos ending where it's like 14 seconds of silence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were like, studios like, hey, they don't like it. Okay. We've given you, we gave you the head in the box ending, okay?

Yeah. You got to work just a little bit. You did Alien Tree. You got to work with us, okay? Right. And then they tacked on the little scene then. So it, but it's really. not a lot. It's just like Brad Pitt

in the back of the car being driven away and then Arleigh Emery and Morgan Freeman's like don't worry we'll take care of him and then your man goes to Morgan Freeman where will you be and says I'll be around as if they indicate that he's not going to retire he's going to stick around. Yeah because he's been wanting to

retire he can't retire from this. But then there's like it ends with that last bit of who is it that he's quoting I can remember who it was but the quote is the world it was Ernest Hemingway I think it's Hemingway. I'm not too sure And the quote is The world is a beautiful place

And worth fighting for I agree with the second part Yeah That is Hemingway And that is Hemingwood And that was the cornyest Yeah, it's very corny I actually

Think I like it Like that rather than cut the black Really? Well look If I was a studio guy I think we'd go with this Because hey look Weirdos and artsy people

Might like to cut the black ending But we just gotta give him A tiny little thing at the end We've just caught off woman's head Arguably it is a good character arc because the entire time Morgan Freeman is, this world is a horrible place and I just don't understand it anymore

whereas at the end it's kind of that little bit of voiceover means it comes to the realization that yes the world is a horrible place but you do still have to struggle and stay alive. It's almost like that one scene makes it like it's a movie about Morgan Freeman's character as opposed to by the end of it it kind of feels like a movie about

Kevin Spacey's character. Which is why we need a little extra bit at the end of Freeman just so it feels like it's Freeman's movie Yeah, and it is just, I mean, maybe optimistic is the wrong word, wrong word, but it's not completely, it has that slight little sliver of hope or like that bad things happen, but you just got to get on with it. And also just the idea of the fact that he's staying around would make, I think it'd be more satisfying if there was going to be another scene that they were going to shoot and just ran out of money. Yeah. of, I think this is going to be the opening who was going to be

Freeman buying a house in the countryside and saying how it's going to be like, you've got one more week left Oh, right, right, right, right. But I think that would feel a bit too silly like, I got one more week. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's when they had that

dialogue scene about like, have you ever shot a man in action? Oh, yeah. One week away from retirement and everything. I thought that the movie was going to like set it up to be really, really corny. Yeah, yeah, that he'd have to shoot him or whatever. Well, that was it.

They tinkered with that for like a minute or two The idea of like Freeman shoots him That wouldn't be terrible to like Be like no I'm gonna It would be pretty bad but the It's kind of like he's saving Brad Pitt in a way Because if he kills him first I think that would work because he's like

Okay I need to retire soon I'm an old has been cop This guy is the future So I shoot this guy and I'm Rath Then he gets to carry on with his fucking Yeah Well again like the whole It's so funny because like it will ruin him

Pitt, let's be honest, okay this will not affect Pitt's career whatsoever He's not gonna be able to be a cop Yeah, because he's a pussy Like, but like I'm just saying like That's the real sin

Police wife Yeah, that's the real sin Hey, he's not a bro Yeah, he's not hardcore In real life, okay Let's just say like If he somehow recovered from the Paltrow shooting

Yeah I mean the Paltrow beheading The head in a box Yeah, okay No, there's literally no There's no way to police to be like, you're off the force. No jury would convict him. His wife's head got caught off.

I mean, arguably, the case could be made that if he were to undergo psychological evaluation, he wouldn't be fit to do the job anymore. Well, look, he's not going to go jail. It's like... No, he wouldn't go to jail. No, I don't think so. No, I think he'd get kicked off the force and be able to live his life. But his whole personality is a guy.

Ironically, he gets a career doing unboxing videos on YouTube. He just gets really big. Every time he's so scared. What's in the box? Oh, it's a scented candle. Smells like by Dead Wives Pussy. All right. Ooh, funkel pops.

But, yeah. Who made these magic pussy rocks? Wait a second. Yeah, it's, so that's the film. Yeah. It's a good film. It's fun. You know, it's a little silly at times.

But kind of, as you said, Matthew, you're so entertained by it. You don't really question it too much. You're just, you're along for the. the ride, you know? Yeah, I would say almost like you get this, almost like a tiny little hitchcocky vibe. Yes, I really got that. So the silliness kind of works with it. Yeah.

Like, oh, it's a hitchcocky. It's a little bit over the top because a movie like that is like too inherently silly to take seriously the full time. Yeah. Even taking it, the more seriously you take it, the more silly it's going to look. Yeah, yeah. And let's be honest, the whole thing of like, it's a killer and they're all based on the seven deadly sins. Yeah. Like, I feel like there's like probably not.

300 screenplays that are like that. Exact premise. And none of them would ever, and like probably this one that was written, it was never going to be like

this while Fincher. Like he makes it in something. Fincher is almost, yeah, because he elevates a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Like social network makes it better.

Fucking Fight Club makes it better. He takes like good source material. I think that's why social network is so good is because like Sork and scripts normally kind of annoy me a little bit. Yeah.

We were actually saying that. before we were recording. Yeah, I think Fincher was like, I'm going to take the good bits out of this. Yes. I think that's what, yeah, that is where his strength lies.

He looks at the source material and says, there's really good stuff here. There's also some silly stuff. And I'm going to do it. I bet do my best to kind of elevate the good stuff. And I think he does that very well. Mostly, yeah,

most of the time, yeah. I, it's funny. Zodiac could be another one. Zodiac's great. I was telling Matthew by Zodiac. I really want to watch Zodiac. I'd love to have you on again to talk Zodiac,

but I think Zodiac would be like a three-hour. our podcast. Yeah, because it's like a tree horror film isn't it? Yeah. That would be a

good follow-up though. I'd be willing to do that sometime. I do all the Finchers with you.

Yeah. You just kick me off. This is a backdoor pilot for a fincher podcast. But you still use my house and I'm just like

not. Guys, I really want to go to bed. Shut up. Shut up. We're doing Benjamin button, you queer.

Oh, please. I'm so tired. We're talking about his Paula Abdul videos. Did he do a Paula Abdul

video? He did like seven Paula Abdule videos. Who's she married to that I was just reading there the other day? Somebody I was surprised by, I'll never remember, it doesn't matter. Anyway, go on. If Fincher was going on for a while, he did camera work on, like, Return of the Jedi.

No way, really. Yeah, I think it's like a little kid he was, like, helping out in the craft services. I think he was, not camera work, it was like, he was in the art design department or something like that. Maybe something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Giving hand jobs to, you know. To George Lucas. Yeah.

Yeah. Or he was just getting the coke for Carrie Fisher. like. Yeah, he was the Ewox Fluffer. Carrie Fisher is, I know it's such a tangent, but Carrie Fisher's fucking like autopsy. Emilio Estabez. Sorry, that's who Paul Abdul was married to.

Oh, anyway, cool. But yeah, Carrie Fisher's autopsy report had like, it was like Vicodin and Ecstasy and Cocaine. It's like, that bitch was in her 60s. And she like was on an airplane. It's like, what 60-year-old does ecstasy on an airplane? Yeah, she's more a legend. Well, you know, as well, like, someone who's like,

Disney would probably like listen can you please stay alive for like five more months so we can film the last Star Wars and then we don't give a fuck you you can kill yourself then and she was like I can't hear you I'm partying when she died I tried to do a joke but nobody got it

because she died on a plan so I was like maybe this should call her Prince's layover yeah it doesn't work at all it's really shit but I thought it was genius I was like yes I'm going to the top those things you wake up in the middle of the night you're right at town this is it

I'm going all the way to Fallon with this I love Matthew's reaction as well can I get oh yeah that's the reaction it deserves yeah that's absolutely

reaction no a single bit of enjoyment just like I've heard you it's one of those things there's weird those jokes those are definitely words

you just said no it's like every thing about this is like a maths equation adds up to funny and yet just right at the final hurdle

something happens yeah yeah that's how it goes um 19 else oh one little thing just for me. It ends with a Bowie song. Yes, a really good Bowie song.

Yeah, from the album outside, which I'd recommend to everyone. It's the most underrated album. I've never listened to any of his 90s stuff. I thought I had a bit of a nine inch nails vibe to it. It was cool. Well, he toured with nine inch nails. Yeah, he became obsessed with, like,

a lot of those 90s bands, like smashing pumpkins and Sonic Youth. I actually, interestingly, like, just saw him on, like, a video on YouTube. He's like, he was on stage with placebo. I was like, what a weird combination. But I think it's placebo and David Bowie And they're doing a cover of heroes Obviously Bowie singing or whatever But I was like placebo and Bowie

Yeah I guess it kind of makes sense Well Bowie was great because he would like Just embrace what was big He wasn't like I don't get this weird shit He was always about experimenting And kind of yeah He tried to do everything I think he's done a little bit of like kind of hip hop stuff

Like reckon the early day He did rap once No he didn't really yeah What's the song? I think I'm not joke I think in the rap he mentioned Sinn Féin. Nice. Oh man, that's great. We've got to find this.

Oh, he rapping about Sinn Féin. He mentions it. It's not like a full-on, like, this is what I think about. The IRA instead of Sinn Féin. The IRA, I would understand. No, no, no, it's, it's probably he mentions IRA and Sinn Féin. Okay, right, right. IRA get mentioned in a few, like, early rap songs because they were so big.

Yeah, the 80s and 90s. We were the ISIS of the day back then. We even get a mention of, like, die-hard. Yeah, I was going to say they were like, it's the IRA and like, probably is you.

This is classic IRA. Yeah, the IRA always fly to America and take over a tower. The Nakasami building. All right. We're here to take over Nakasami.

That would be great. Imagine if Jerry Adams tried that one. He saw Diard. Okay. All right. Tell you what, guys. Let's end it.

But a little teaser, okay. Go. I still have, I still have, I still have to tell you about the Komi rule. Woo.

Ooh. Oh, looking forward to that. Yeah. Not. Oh, roasted. Oh,

I'm going to kill myself. Yeah, you should. Get me to spaghetti. I have a lot of it. No surprise there. Let's end it there. All right. Thanks for listening.

Bye. Bye.