Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - 2nd MVP Straw Poll Reaction: 2 Clear Favorites

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to break down the second MVP Straw Poll of the NBA season. The crew talks if Nikola Jokic and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander have separated from the rest of the group, what star may be stuck in fourth and much more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing on Thursday afternoon.

Joining us from San Jose, California, where he's out there for the All-Star festivities up in the Bay Area is Tim Bontems. Hello, everybody. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he's very excited to hit the All-Star break, is Ban McMahon. Howdy, Portons?

All right, so this is one of our favorite days of the year. It's Straw-Pull Day. Oh, I thought you made go to the All-Star break. Oh, I was going to say, nobody deserves the all-star break more than our guy, McBand, after the way the last couple weeks on my favorite days. He deserves to escape. This only comes around three times. Well, I guess it's more than three times a year, three times a season, the straw pole.

Yeah, it's three times a year. Acron math. Yeah, three times a year, buddy. No, there would be one in the fall. I guess you're right. Three times a year. Yeah, three times a year. That's right.

Yeah. I will never claim to be a math expert. I took my last math class, my junior year of high school, and I did not do well on it. It shows. It shows right there. You're right. I'm not denying it. I'm not denying it.

But you had to do some adding, Bontems for your poll real quick. I did. The methodology for the Bontems poll is as, I'm just good, Bon Tempts is too, he tells it too complicated, I'm just going to tell it. He talks to 100 likely voters in all 30 markets. and internationally. He talks to broadcasters, writers, pundits. He gets a cross-section of the actual matrix like everybody like they do in the league. He doesn't just talk to people in New York, doesn't just talk to people in Omaha, doesn't just talk to broadcasters or reporters. He talks to

the whole section. So it has all the likely voters in Omaha, though, he does talk to. Yes. He has, this poll has reliably been the greatest predictors, of any NBA award. And so without further ado, Mr. Bontemps, the floor is yours. And by the way, one more thing. Sorry, more ado. That's fine. That's fine.

McMan and I, as is our standard custom, McMahon and I do not know the results. We will be learning them in real time here. And Bontemps keeps us under lock and key because it does affect the odds. And McMahon and I do not wager. Can't speak about Jackson. I'm just kidding. I'm sure Jackson. I'm not on basketball. Throw down. I'll nickel and dime some football bets, but go on. All right. So just that's the disclaimer. All right, Bon Temps, now it's yours. Yeah. Well, these are always the three days where I'm actually complimented on the pod.

So I should probably do more polls and that would be better for me. Well, I was just about to say the other reason that you hold so tight of results is the tiny little shred of power that you have. That's that's not, it's not really anything to do with that. Though, I do go out of questions. It might be wrong to say, but it's not inaccurate. All right. So in the second edition of the poll, we had 14 different players get at least one vote, which was a lot more than I expected. In we'll run through the bottom guys quick, I think we'll have a couple brief stops along the way. Our parent, Shangoon, was 14th. He got one fifth place vote. Phase three, McMahon, phase three. Hold on. I thought Jonathan Fagan retired.

My guy's not from a not from a Houston reporter. Wow. Not from a Houston reporter. Mercury. Shout out to Turkey. A Turkish. It was not a Turkish reporter either. Another first time entered in the poll.

Two fifth place votes for Pistons Guard, Kate Cunningham. Wow. He first had a very impressive run this year making his first All-Star. We'll see about that. First All-Star appearance this weekend. He's had a great year for them. another first time entered in the poll in 12th place with one fourth place vote Cavs Corner stand up for Evan Mobley

one fourth place vote how many votes for Tristan Thompson for dunking up by 30 on Wednesday night hey he gets my sportsmanship award I guarantee most overrated thing in sports is sportsmanship let's just say let's say say Tristan's feel pretty good about his dunk after that game last time let me get that text I might have texted them today and ask him about it. He might be, might be feel pretty good about dunking in his hometown in that scenario. Let me get that tweet up. Just, I mean, it's real quick. The Cavs absolutely blasted the Raptors. The Raptors are on the second night of it back to back. They were missing some guys.

But the Cavs completely dominated the game. And then Tristan was in and garbage time at the end. And with less than 30 seconds, it wasn't like at the buzzer, but with like less than 30 seconds, um, he threw down a dunk. And, uh, Darko, the Raptors coach, uh, did not appreciate it. that it was said it was no class, I think Darko said. Yeah, he was, Draco was displeased. Hold on, there was more than that.

Well, we don't need to get into Darko's whole thing too, but Tristan, Tristan's response was funny. Darko was unhappy about the dump. No class and disrespect. Go on. Let's hear Tristan.

All right. Tristan said, hey, you want a full court press with under a minute left in the game when you get cracked by 30. This will happen to you. Lose for the draft lottery

and be happy, buddy boy, which he's referring to Darko, who's a nice man. I have nothing bad to say. I love Darko. Hopefully, you and most of your guys see the light at the end of Bobby and Maasai's long-term plan. Bobby Webster and Missai Ujiri, their front office. Bless up and stay warm in all caps, My City. Toronto native Tristan Thompson. Listen, the man, I'm sure he had friends and family in the arena. It hadn't dunked in a while. I got to get Stats Williams on this. I'm pretty sure Tristan's last dunk was on the NBA today's set. Remember when he threw it down on Chenay,

on live TV when he was our teammate? So, you know, the man gets a chance to dunk in his hometown, throw it down, big fella. And he did. Tristan, not bashful. But anyway, Evan Mobley with a fourth-place vote. Yeah, it was interesting. A bunch of first-time vote-getters at the bottom. Tide in points, but ahead of him because he got a couple more votes with three fifth-place vote. votes, former rumor of Cavs Corner, this player in the league, LeBron James, first entrance in the poll since the beginning of last season. Really ahead of Evan Mowgli, okay. So he got some fifth place votes.

We'll see if the Lakers continue to win. They've obviously had a great run into the All-Star break up until this game Wednesday night in Utah where they got smacked by the jazz. That was an eye-popping box score, by the way. Larry Marketing plus 35, Walker Kessler with, I think, eight for eight from the field and six blocks. There was a lot of stuff going on. Walker was not intimidated by a newly

signed Alex Len. I'll just leave it at that. Luca Donchitz minus 19 and 23 minutes. Hey, I've started hearing people call this the Max Christie trade. Because Max Christi is averaging more points per game since

the trade since Luca Donch. I think that's premature. I think we should probably. You think so? I think we should probably let things play out. How many votes for Max Christie? I will tell you what, though. The Mavericks did get a really good player in Max Christie. That guy has come on in a huge way this season

and was really coming off for the Lakers, and he's been great. If the Mavericks would have just made a trade that Max Christie was the return, like if it said it had been like Maxie Cleba in a first round pick for Max Christi, their fans would be really fired up about him. You know, he got a little overshadowed,

by who else is in this deal. I thought one of the more interesting spots on the whole ballot was Jaron Jackson Jr. coming in ninth, a couple fourth place votes and a fifth place vote, not because he's going to win MVP, but because we've talked a bunch on this spot about Memphis wanting to resign Jaron to a long-term extension before he hits free agency. Trading Marcus Smart last week gave me the ability to potentially renegotiate and extend them. But I think Jared Jackson, Jr. has got a really good chance to be an all-embaugh

forward this year, an NBA player, I should say. And if he makes all NBA, and I think being in the top 10 in MVP voting is a good sign that's going to happen with the position of this ballot, he's going to be super max eligible. And Zach Lyman is going to have a lot more flexibility to get a deal done with him. And I assume keeping Memphis for the long term. Yeah. And listen, Jaws missed a lot of time. The Grizzies are rolling along sitting second in the Western Conference. He's having his best offensive year, career high, 23 points per game.

really good efficiency. He's been a defensive player of the year. He's still one of the best. His block shots are down a bit, but he's still like a phenomenal defensive player. I think he's got a great case to be an all-MBA selection if he keeps his rolling for the final, whatever, 30 games of the season or so.

Agreed. Thank you. McBain with some perfect points. In eighth place, one of Brian's discoveries, one third place vote, seven, fifth place votes, eight total votes and 12 total points. Victor Wenban Yama, back in the poll again, moving up a little bit with the spurs moving up to standings a little bit.

We'll see down the stretch here what happens with McMahon and I's bet and whether the spurs can get in the mix for a play-in spot. But I think it's safe to say Victor is going to be in the mix on these for a little while they're coming out. I did not put him on my ballot. I seriously considered it at the fifth spot, but I did not put him on my ballot because the spurs are outside. the top 11.

And there's sub 500. I also consider sub 500. If they get their 36th win and he has a big date that night, I might put him number one on my ballot. I see. But they've fallen off the pace that I need to see. You should ask the place where Victor took his team to dinner and we took the Spurs to dinner in Paris.

Le Altier, Juel de Rovershon. Letia d'I do Joel Robichon. That would be a spectacular place for you to collect on your bed. Maybe the best meal I ever had was in Paris on my honeymoon. This place called Giroth, with the Eiffel Tower in the background, the first time I had some fancy old caviar, which was I ate, but the meal was phenomenal. But I am going to see the spurs coming out of the All-Star break. Don't tell the bosses, but it's a trip that a mill can to go see my daughter on the company dime

because they're playing the sons at the University of Texas. The bosses don't listen to this pot anyway. Don't worry about it. Exactly. So really looking forward to that. And I'm going to have to have a conversation with, yeah, CP3 will probably be receptive to me saying, dude, like, I got dinner on the line. We get these boys rolling.

I don't know. I practice some French. You know, if I can do the old part of my French and start cussing the Victor. But yeah, they've got to get it turned around if he's going to be a real MVP candidate and to prevent me from having to take bomb temps out for fast food. Boy, you mentioned, you mentioned, Brian, the fact that the fifth spot might be a little bit open. I'm going to list off the next three guys in a row because they all basically split the fifth vote. And I think the fifth spot is pretty much completely wide open at this point.

More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. So the two Knicks, Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns, basically had the exact same votes. Had 22 and 23 total votes each. Brunson had one extra point. So he was sixth, and Towns was seventh. But they had 32 and 31 points, basically split the Knicks vote. If one of them had gotten all the votes, though, they still would have been sixth because they would have been behind the other entry in Cavs Corner, Donovan Mitchell,

who had three third place votes, 11, fourth place votes, 25, fifth place votes, 39 total and 73 total points. And I think as things stand is the most likely got to finish fifth, not surprisingly given the way the Cavs season is gone. Yeah, I went with Brunson fifth on my ballot. it. But Donovan is a good choice because of how well the calves are doing. As you guys know, one of my guidelines that I'm trying to determine awards is I think about what the players' responsibilities are. The code word I use is Lyft. How big is his lift every night?

And while Donovan has been awesome, what the Knicks asked Jalen Brunson to do, especially in minutes, is just a lot. And so that's why I went with him fifth. It was funny, though, Josh Hart the other day was saying that he really appreciates when Jailen tries to play defense because all he does is foul when he tries to play defense. So, but that, when that was standing, I had him fit. I am surprised. Kat has had a great year. I've been surprised how many votes he's gotten in these straw polls so far. Because to me, if you're picking a guy that's the MVP of the Knicks, Kat's had a phenomenal year. He deserves to be in the All-Star game, deserves to be an All-Star starter out of the East.

But, I mean, I think you're asking anybody with the Knicks. I think they would tell you, Jalen is the guy that drives that team forward. And I think, I mean, you saw it even last night. I mean, they're playing this crazy game against the Hawks. They tried to blow it a bunch of times. They're down one with 20 seconds ago, no timeouts. Jalen's got dice and Daniels, maybe the best perimeter defender in the league, guarding him. And he just sizes them up and buries a 20-footer and make sure they wins the game. Well, and he's the culture center. He's the leader. You know, obviously he's the guy with the ball in his hands and all that. I didn't have them with my ballot. I'll be honestly, I've been a little bit busy, so I didn't put just a massive

amount of thought in the fourth. I had, I did have, I had Donovan fourth. And Wendy, it's interesting, you know, you mentioned the thing, the responsibility is the lift and all that. And I get it. I also think that part of Donovan's value this year has been to kind of let go a little bit. And I've covered Donovan. You know, I covered him a lot from his rookie year on. The whole Utah thing, you know, wrote a lot about all the friction with him and Gobert, all that, the whole saga. And I actually talked to Donovan when I was in Cleveland, just, you know, just shooting the bull off to the side. And when I talked to him about this, there was definitely a point in Donovan's career where stats mattered to him, status mattered to him.

you know, average units per game was important, which is not unusual. Like Anthony Edwards has been honest about that stuff matters to him now. He didn't want to be double teamed past football. Now he wants to get buckets, you know. Donovan is at the point in his career, and he's at a great point where he's in his prime physically and has really matured to the point where he understands, hey, if I give up a little bit, it's better for the team. Now let Garland get going, empower Mobley, you know, all these things.

and it's able to save his body and his leg so he can be fresh come playoff time, unlike last year where, man, like, you know, obviously his body gave out on him. So I actually think Donovan willingly and even eagerly accepting a little bit less has been part of his value to the cabs this year. Yeah, I could agree more. I think he deserves a ton of credit for that. Wendy, I know you're not used to that kind of nuance from me, but that's pretty fast. I listen, man, I'm in agreement.

It would be more fun if we were arguing over the definition of bad luck. But at the end of the week, we're just, we're out of gas. Well, no. This keeps digging himself a bigger hole, McMahon. The thing about it is, like, when Wendy's got his hair right, you know, when he's got the product in there in the park, right, no, he's got the thing going. Yep, he's called cool and collected. That's right.

You attach Wendy in a bad hair moment. It wasn't even a bad-haired day because the hair was right and then he let his hair back. And it wasn't. That's right. You catch Wendy in a bad hair moment and like the mood. All bets are off, baby. You're saying there's a correlation between what's going on inside your head. Exactly.

When it's on point outside, it's on point outside. When it goes to hell outside, like you get the old mokester. All right. Well, now we get to the real business end of the pod, starting in fourth place. I think you guys can guess who's in fourth place because he's in fourth place basically in every poll. For his last two years. That is correct. Jason Tatum, top of the second tier.

Top of the second tier, baby. So Jason Tatum, we should call him toast. Top of the season. So Jason Tatum was first in the first straw poll of the 22, 23 season. The year and B ended up winning. Since then, he has been somewhere between fourth and sixth in every single poll. and he is again in fourth 18 third place votes 65 fourth place votes 14 fifth place votes 97 total 2199 points actually on one more ballot than the guy who was in third guys can

probably also guess yonestanacupo buck star hold on wait tatam finished above lebron and above kd should have got more minutes in the olympics that that how do you feel about that what's that uh What's that meme where Tom Hardy is like, that's bait? I think it's Tom Hardy. That's bait. Just pretend I did that. So, Yon is finished third. 96 total ballots.

One second place vote. 77 third place votes. 12th, fourth place and sixth fifth place votes. 430 total points. Which, go ahead. Tatum is, we moved past him. Tatum's having a fabulous year. He's leading the Celtics in points, rebounds, assists.

and steals, it's either steals or blocks. It must have to be steals. I mean, and that's a good team. I don't know if you heard. Yeah. I noticed that during the playoffs last year. He's having a tremendous season. Yeah. He's going to be first team of NBA again.

He's, I mean, he's, he's a phenomenal player. I also think he's probably going to be semi-permanently stuck in sort of this position where he's somewhere between fourth and sixth on the ballot every year. If you're making a supermax contract, $300 million, and you're stuck on the first team, all NBA and in place for MVP, I would say. I'd say life is great. And look, the thing that Tatum in particular, I think, doesn't get enough credit for is the fact that he just, he plays all the time. Like we're talking about all these other guys missing time. He plays all the time.

And look, Janice, you know, we've talked about it some lately. he's only six games away from potentially being ineligible for any awards at all. Now, one thing I have in the story that's running today with the poll itself, a check with the league. And because Yonis played in the NBA Cup final, the only thing that game counts for is end of season awards. Stats don't count. The game result doesn't count,

but it counts as a game played for the 65 game rule. So, even though he's missed 12 regular season games, he's got six games to play with to be eligible still. That game made me flip-flop in the previous straw poll, and I'm still getting crap about that in OKC. Well, so now we're down to the real business part. We've got Che and we've got Yolkich. Let me just point out Yon's numbers actually stack up favorably to both of his MVP seasons. The Bucks record doesn't, and these two dudes are clearly, like, it's a two-horse. race. It is a two horse race. They were the only two players to be on every ballot. And they had the,

there was only one third place vote between the two of them. And they, they swept the rest of the first and second place votes. It's the most dominant top two I've ever seen in any of these polls over the past several years that I've done. So basically, since, since you love these, it's all, it's not just you. It's all of ESPN loves tears. You know, our editors love tears. So there would be, these two guys would be in tier one. Yonis would be in tier two by himself. Or no, he would be,

I guess he would be with Tatum. I would say he and Tatum are in tier two together. I can't help him ghost him. Well, I think Janus will finish third pretty clearly if he's eligible. But if Tatum, I think, will be the next guy.

And then there's a pretty clear tier after that with Mitchell and the, uh, the Knicks guys. Okay. Do you got any predictions on before we unveil this on how it went? Well, I will say how I voted. Yeah, go ahead. You guys should both say first.

I voted for Yokic in the first poll and felt pretty strongly about where he was. And he has done nothing to hurt his case in that time. You voted and stop huffing and puffing and puffing. That's the freaking pod, buddy. Huffin and puffin is the name of the game. If we didn't huff and puff, we'd be done. But Shea has been so impressive and the thunder so dominant that it is really the classic case for MVP. And so with nothing against Yokic, I did vote for Shea for first in this. Yeah.

And so did I. And look, say what you want. If it's even, I'm going with a guy who hadn't won it yet and the guy whose team is by far, you know, the best team in the Western Conference. I haven't checked today. Are they the best team in the league record wise? Yes, they are by a half. They are. Because they scored the first 24 points of the fourth quarter once they,

night and came back and peat Miami after being down the entire game. Just a devastating defensive performance. And, you know, it's like we talked going into the season about the standard being so high for Joker to be a four-time MVP in a five-year span and the historical implications of that. And I don't, like, I don't think that he's clearly a better player than Shea. And I think there's a strong argument or clearly having a better season than Shea. And I think there's a strong argument to be made that Shea Gildes Alexander, in terms of impact, has been having or is having the best season in the league. I mean, Joker's insane.

The guy, like, last I checked, he has more triple doubles through three quarters of games than any other team has, period. You know, like, I mean, he's having an absolutely bonker season, but so is Shea. And I'm doing math here, which, thank you. Things have calculators. So get this. I would say the two most important stats in basketball are very basic. Points and plus minus. Like you have to score points to win games.

I'm not sure everybody would agree with that, but I'll let you keep cooking. Plus minus is what's the score? The score is the most important stat. Right. But there's a lot of things that go into plus minus. Just let it. Hey, listen, let him huff and puff, all right? He's huffing and puff and let him make his point.

And half of the scoreboard, are the points that you score. Shea has a 233 point. Not always, what you're hoping for is a lot more than half is your score. This is quite the point. One side. Just finish your point. Finish your point, buddy.

He has a 233 point advantage in plus minus this year. He is plus 704. Okay. Wow. Yoker's plus 471. They're 1-2 and plus minus. Well, I don't know. It's a decent stat to indicate impact if they're 1-2.

you're right that that was I want to I want to take it back okay so I liked that I don't know if I think it's the second most important stat but that was a good piece of the most important because the scoreboard's most important stat right but plus minus is how is circumstantial I'm like this is like the never shifting cahones factor uh the coheness factor correct criterion month to month your inability to understand cahones is that surprising thing in the world okay I I understand it. I just ask you what the criteria is and every month it changes. You're not even sure what region they're located on.

Okay. Settled out. Now, now, I can be petty with you. I'm allowed. Someday people will hear the end of the poll, but continue. I'm just going to get the raw point scored. So he's got a three point advantage and plus minus and a 236 point advantage and point scored. He's got 1,196 points.

We're not to the All-Star break. and Anthony. I'm glad we're just citing raw numbers that nobody has any context for of any kind whatsoever. Dude, I'm sorry. If you have a 200 plus point cushion in both of those stats, man, Che is great. I'm just giving value. And if you're a significant contributor to the number one defense in the league and you're averaging whatever the hell he's averaging in rebounds and assist, you know, he's one of best defense of playmakers. in the league.

Like, ain't your team has the best record? I mean, it's a pretty comprehensive most valuable player case. Well, it's pretty simple for both guys. Hey, Jackson, you better comprehensive that, you know, get that thing up on the board, baby. There you go. The vocab lessons are working. I mean, the case for each guy is very simple. Yolkich is the first non-center to average a triple double for a season as of now.

His numbers across the board are completely bonkers, shooting 57% for the field, 45% from 3, 29, I think 12 and 10. Just crazy numbers. Shea would become the, I believe, sixth player in NBA history as of now to average 35, 5, 5, a steal and a block a game. The other guys are Jordan, LeBron, Yonis, and Wade. Pretty good list also. So like the numbers on both sides are crazy. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Now, for the actual results, in second place, with 31st place, votes, 69 second place votes and one third place vote, 788 total points is Nicole

Yokic, who's now in second. He wasn't first in the first poll. Only 30 first place votes. I'm going to get to that in a second. So obviously then Shea is left in for 70 first place votes, 30 second place votes, 910 total points. Now, number one or two on every ballot. But what is the separation points? 122. Now, a couple thing, a couple, well, so here's the thing. We're talking about a totally binary race now, right? These two guys are one and two. Nobody else is getting first place votes.

Hardly anybody else is going to get a second place vote. It's going to be, we're back in the same, maybe not going to have quite the same venom, but it's going to be the same thing as Janus and Hardin, Yoko Chenebid, et cetera, the rest of the season. Now, in the two weeks leading up to this vote, because the context of these things always matters, right? What's happening?

Last time, as you mentioned it, McMahon, we did this right around the NBA Cup final. Janus beat Shea in the NBA Cup final. Probably the worst game of the Thunder played all season. She lost the ground there. Right. Worst game game. Right. Worst game ground there.

Yonis game ground there. Yonkutristen first. What's happened over the last couple of weeks? Shea has just happened to have the first 350 point games of his career in the last two weeks as the thunder have been rocketing out to this huge lead in the West, right? So the context of the moment. Thundering out to a huge lead. There you go.

That's right. That's a good line by you. So the thunder, the thunder have obviously, between their play and Shay's individual play, I'm not surprised that he is winning. And I think to your point, McMahon,

I don't think you're alone. And if it's a tie, you're going to go to the guy who hasn't won. And a guy who, you know, hasn't won three of the last, So I think that also is working in Chey's favor too. I'm also going to say, though, Denver's now 36 and 19.

They're good. They are a half game behind the Memphis Grizzlies in second place for second place in the West. They've won eight games in a row for eight and two in their last 10. They're the biggest threat to the Thunder in the West, I think. No question. Jamal Marie's back to being Jamal Marie again. He had 55 yesterday like he's cooking again. Yokic is putting up triple doubles.

Anybody in question given Jamal Murray and Max is a buffoon? Well, it's good to see him back playing like a Max player again. But all I'm saying is you look at 70 to 30 in the first place vote column and you think, oh, man, this race is over. Shea's going to win. I think it's very possible Shea wins. It won't surprise me at all when I do this in a couple months for the end of the season, if he's in first place.

I would just say, I think this thing is wide open. and I think that if the nuggets keep playing, the way they've been playing over the last few weeks, and Yokic keeps putting up huge numbers, and they're clearly the second best team in the West after the awful start they had, and Jamal playing terribly early year and everything that's gone on, then I think this thing is going to come right down to it at the end,

because Yokic's numbers, like his numbers across the board are completely berserk. And if you start putting resume against resume, it's going to be very hard to choose and it's going to come right down to the end of the season, I think. Well, and can we please just have a deal where we talk about the qualifications of two incredible candidates and not try to poke holes in either? Because, dude, these guys are both having historically awesome seasons.

You don't have to not joke her to say, I think Shay's most valuable player in the league. Correct. You don't have to knock Shay to say, hey, Joker won three out of four for a reason, and he's having maybe his best season yet. They're both amazing players. They're both having amazing seasons.

So for the first time and a long time, let's have a toxic free MVP discussion down the stretch. What other pie in the sky requests do you have? I think we can do this. So I would just say that I am, remark, I am routinely surprised at the lack of respect that's given to the thunder. I'm not sure if it's because there's the nature of their team. They're kind of a little hokey as a team.

They're in a small market. And the group interview stuff, the dream. They haven't done it yet. It's the same as the Celtics. The Celtics were poked in similar ways. And then the Celtics won last year. Right. No, I understand.

I'm just saying like, like Bon Timson said, Joker was a fraud until the Nuggets won their title. These things happen. Like, it's the truth. So I will say that I, you know, because of that, which I feel like I'm not even like, I'm not even like somebody who's like, oh, yeah, they're going to win the whole thing. I'm not even like super hugely pro thunder. Like I think it's still wide open among several teams.

But I feel like I'm almost daily defending the thunder on TV because I'm listening to my colleagues. like just, you know, pencil the other teams in ahead of them. And I'm just like, you know, guys, they're 44 and 9. You know, they've got 36 wins by 10 points. They have a point differential plus 13 and a half, which would break the record by over a full point. Like, we can't crown them yet. They've got to, you know, they've got to make the run.

They've got to earn their parade right around that Bricktown Canal. Tipsy Tiki's a nice spot on that canal. but, you know. If the Thunder make the finals, are we going to hear more promo for the tipsy, Tiki, or the Wonderboy? Oh, available for pre-order.

Luca Donchish. The bar. The bar. The bar. For sure. Only because of, well, I think if you bring the Wonderboy too, it'll be the,

we'll be hanging at the goat a lot too. It's opening up. If you bring the Wonderboy, I will be sign it. It'll be the bar, Brian, because the book will have been out for two months and McMahon will be looking for as much free alcohol as he can get. So it would be the bar for sure.

Calm down on all that. I like, they serve cold milk there too. I know that because I brought Royce Young there once when it was the pink pair. You made me lose my train of thought. Oh, but that's a shock. To act like the Thunder aren't absolutely a championship caliber team. You're not basing that on any kind of. Well, I agree.

I'm just saying if it's. close, I wonder how that will affect the voting. Well, I'm just saying people will probably see this and see 70 to 30 and just go, Ah, Chase's probably going to win. And I would say that it's a lot closer than 70 to 30 because the thing people don't think about with this stuff is like, if it's really close, like it is with this, it only takes a few people to flip their vote and all of a sudden and you're in a dead heat. And Shay is coming off an incredible. Chase's coming off an incredible couple of weeks.

And I think Denver, like, I think if you ask the average NBA fan or the average NBA watcher, where's Denver in the standings? They're going to say, they're like fifth or sixth. Like, I don't think people are looking at them as being the number two team in the West after how chaotic the beginning of their season was. And, well, I know they are third right now. I'm saying the fact that they're in, the fact that they're in a neck and neck race for second is not where we thought they were going to be at any point.

And if they end up one, two in the West, like a big part, I think, of Shea's argument is that he is the best player on what clearly has been the best team. But if Yokic has got Denver up the second, then, you know, that's going to be a big feather in his cap down the stretch. And a big part of Joker's argument has always been the net rating swing, right? because the nuggets, again, are awesome with him on the floor and awful with him off the floor. Plus 12.3 net rating on, minus 8.5 off. You add that up.

It is, wait, minus. 20 points swing. My bad, minus 8.2. So it's a 20.5 swing. Now, the Oklahoma City Thunder, or awesomist, if that's a word, with Shea on the floor and okay with him out. 19.1 is his net rating plus 0.6 when he sits. So, you know, there's still a little bit of head above water.

But that's an 18.5 point net rating swings. So, I mean, basically the net rating swings are also neck and neck. And again, that's always been not that Joker doesn't put up all kinds of insane numbers. And you can also do things like turn on the television and watch them play as long as not in the Denver area or like the surrounding six states. But yeah, I'm just saying like the net rating swing. You said the surrounding six states is a joke with me, but that ain't too far off. I'm not kidding.

Yeah. Well, how about them finally getting altitude on the broadcast channels there after only took five years to get it done? Yeah. Wow. They just announced that the other day. I was not aware of that development. That's nice. You have like a historically elite player and people who live there can actually watch

There's people like in Golden and like, you know, Boulder who were like completely. Who is this guy? Number 15. Who is this guy, Yolkich? You mean Carmelo? What were, do you have in front of you, Bontemps? Who was the leading in the poll a year ago at the break? It was Yolkich Shay Janus Luka, 1, 2, 3, 4 last year.

Well, ended up being Yolkich. That one, it felt like Yolkich basically had it locked up, even though it was a similar, it was a similar gap, but it didn't, there was much more of a debate about whether Shia. The Nuggets were a terror throughout last season. Well, and the debate was about whether Shea or Luca should be, or Yonah should be second or third or fourth, rather than anybody really challenging Yokic for first after Embedd got hurt.

Because Embedd had led the first one, then he got hurt, then he was off the ballot. Then Yolch was sitting there and he was obviously the guy. This year, to me, this debate is going to very clearly go right down to the end of the season. And, you know, assume both those guys are healthy, knock on wood. And they both have a very long track record being very healthy. So hopefully they stay that way. And I think, you know, don't bother putting bets on Janus or Tatum or anybody else. There's nobody else who's going to win.

It's going to be one of these two guys. And I think we're going to be, you know, I certainly hope it's not going to be a toxic debate. I think the fact that they don't play the same position will help with it not being as a toxic of a debate. And the fact that there's not like even battles over all NBA anymore like there was with that other one with Embed and Jokic. But also I think a lot of Oklahoma doesn't have the internet. So that'll help. Well, let's not make it toxic and then let's do that. But I do think this is going to be a fascinating one to go down to the end.

And I mean, I don't, I just, that's just the only thing I would say about it. Like even the odds, I was looking at the odds yesterday. day and I think it was like Shea was like minus 400 and Yokic was plus 700. I would say it probably should even be closer than that because I think Yokch has got a real chance. So you're saying Yokch at plus 700, do you like that number relatively? I just think if you're making a bet, I think Shay, if I had to guess now, I would guess Shay will win.

But I think the race is far from over and I think people shouldn't like last year at this time, I thought Yokuch was going to win for sure. This time, I think it's like 60-40, Shea wins. But the momentum, I think, could easily swing back in Yokic's favor late. Shea, after having an MVP runner-up season, has made a, I would call it like a little hop, not quite an elite, but he's averaging, what, two and a half four points per game, leading the league in scoring, his efficiency, if he looked like effective field goal percentage, he's ticked up just a little bit from being really damn good to even better. and the thunder after being a number one seed have made a significant leap where like, dude, suddenly wins is still a possibility for them. We'll see if they maybe let off the gas a little bit down the stretch.

Obviously, they're not going to be fighting for any kind of seating. They're going to run away as the number one seed in the league. But again, he's got a airtight case. It's just that Joker also happens to have an unbearable. unbelievably tight case itself. They're two unassailable cases. You just have to pick between them. Unassailable.

That's a good one. Jackson, get us that one too. Jackson has ESPN bets numbers. Right now, Shea is minus 700, Yokic plus 425. Wow, minus 700. Yeah. So maybe not as attractive on the Yokish number.

But I would say you're right, Bond Tems, I bet on anybody else right now would be kind of probably a waste. You're just wasting your money on that. because it's going to be one of these two guys. Von Temps, thank you for your work on this, as usual. I will be relying on you to cover All-Star Weekend because I am completely unenthusiastic about it,

and I'll be relying on your recaps. Well, I probably am not going to read a damn thing you write this week in Bon Temps, and I ain't anywhere near San Francisco. I think you've earned that, buddy. You've had quite a stretch of time. that a lot of people asking me asking how you've been holding up. I've had a lot of people. Just as irritable as ever.

I've had a lot of people encouraging me to go to hell and saying all kinds of nasty things. That's good. I'm happy there are some people who have some well wishes for me. It forms my heart. There's a couple of them at least. A couple of them included? There's probably a bar in some NBA city called hell that you would be. It has to be.

Hey, we're talking about Max Christy. Can I tell my Max Christy story? My Max Christy. Oh, is this about you asking Clay about his dad? Is this a good Maverick story? We're in the business for those. Listen, again, Max Christy's been amazing. I did ask Clay about Christy and he said, man, I thought for the longest,

and he just happened to be after the King's game. He said, man, I thought for the longest he was Doug Christie's son. Six-six, guard, you know, defensive market did the same frame. And then he went on to rape about how awesome Max has been since he's doing the Maddox and that pretty shot that, again, he's been amazing. But no, I met Max Christie's aunt last year. Do you know of Kieran's, the bar, the Irish, like huge Irish pub right across the street from the Target Center in Minnesota? Yes. Vaguely.

Yes. I haven't been there in a while, but yes. Here's a little tip on tips. When you go cover a Timberwolves game, their PR staff, which, you're, you know, was the what's the award the Brian McIntyre Award won it last year

well part of the reason they won it is because when you cover Timberl's game they give you a little gift bag in that gift bag they've got a buy one get one free coupon

for Bruske at at Kieran's now Kieran also happens to be my middle name as a you know this is this is HOOP collective trivia I did not know that

K-I-E-R-N so I can get He even spelled it. I can get a free beer at the Irish pub that's named after me. Yeah, I'm going to take him something in there. I mean, all he needs to be more Irish is for his first name to be Seamus. Went to school with Seamus Curley and my board in the school in Maine. Anyways, so I go in there and, you know, have dinner, you know, it's just me.

Have two brews? This is a mistake. This is a mistake, right? I got one free, you know. we won't count how many I had. I had one for equal. Anyways, and Lakers Celtics is on the TV. So I'm watching.

And the bartender, a very friendly woman, you know, she's asking me like, ah, who you're rooting for? And I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm just a basketball fan. You know, I'm just hoping to see a good game. And, you know, you don't like you. Anyways, and she kind of led up to it.

And then with great pride, she said, my nephew is on the Lakers. I said, really? Max Christie was her nephew. And I told Max this after they beat the Warriors last night, you know, just chat with them a little bit in the hallway. And I said, hey, do you have an aunt who's a bartender in Minneapolis? He was like, I sure do.

And then, you know, Kristen, Kristen, one of the Mazz PR people, you know, does a great job and is a friend of the pod. And she was like, of course you've been a bartender in every city. Yes. Yes, that is correct. That is correct. I have several recommendations of places to eat in Minneapolis, but I've eaten at Karens before. Do you get a free beard any of them?

I don't think so. Well, then I'm going back to Kierens. Didn't we have dinner? Weren't you at the lovely dinner we had in Minneapolis last year with Kevin Harlan? Yeah, with a legend. We told some wonderful. What was that spot again? There's only one legend, but Kevin Harlan is like,

legend. There's a lot of legends, but he's... That was at Murray's Steakhouse, which is a famous old school steakhouse, but I'm also a fan in Minneapolis of Bar LaGrasse. Okay, I've not been there. Murray's was absolutely a phenomenal meal. Would go back there in heartbeat. No question about it. Yeah. Don't know their bartender's name or... Not yet. No. The bartender has a nephew who plays for... I don't know. I was going to make a joke, but it's too late in the day. All right. Thank you for Bond Temps doing the poll. Thank you to

McMahon for being McMahon and uh... Joy vacation, McMahon. Hope you have a good, uh, little time away. You've earned it. Thank you, Jackson and Rafar, producers. Thank you for listening and watching. The Hoop Collective will be talked to you next week.

Adios amigos.