Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - 5 Biggest Questions For Knicks Playoff Chances + Believe In Magic Hot Streak? & State Of Boston With Tatum's Return

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Vince Goodwill and Anthony Slater to talk the biggest questions that will decide the fate of the season for the Knicks before reacting to Heat coach Erik Spoelstra apologizing to “absolutely no one” about the path to Bam’s historic 83-point game. Then, we discuss the latest updates on Steph Curry’s injury including how the Warriors are approaching it with caution. Next, the guys tackle how much stock we are putting in the hot streak from the Magic of late. Finally, we are joined by trial lawyer and Celtics superfan Alex Spiro to assess the state of expectations for Boston with Tatum’s return. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Thursday evening. A little later on in the show, we'll have a special guest if you're a longtime listening to the podcast,

or if you're a legal eagle, you'll know who Alex Spiro is, one of America's leading defense attorneys. Vince, you can never be, you can never have too many elite defense attorneys on your side. But he's also a Boston Celtics mega fan. And so here it's going on with the Celtics. But anyway, joining us from the media room at Little St. Caesar's Arena. Literally right now, as we're doing this, the first quarter of 76ers Pistons is going on. I think the 76ers are comfortably ahead at this point. About seven points. But later on today, I bet Cade Cunningham will be sitting right there where Vince Goodwill is sitting.

What up, though, Wendy. I'm trying to be trying to understand why you pointing out the defense attorney thing to me. Do you think I'm going to need one soon? That's correct. You're from it. You're from Detroit. I just figure you never know. joining us from his home in Sacramento. And I have to say it's his home because every time we've had Anthony Slater, since he's been with us for six months now, he's been in his backyard. And I miss the backyard personally, but from his brand new home studio, Anthony Slater. You're like the ninth person. Suddenly now that I don't have the backyard, everybody wants me to get it back,

including somebody said, you know what you can do? You go take a picture of your backyard and make it the backdrop. That would be amazing. Oh my God, that would be amazing. I would love that. We've got to make that happen. Next time I'm on TV with you, I'm going to do that just for you. Oh, my God, that's going to be great. Okay. So I thought we'd start, Vince, you had a story that posted on ESPN.com today. You know, we're going to spend the majority of this pod taking a look at the Eastern Conference, particularly the Northeast. But we got some Orlando Magic stuff coming at you later, which is a sentence I don't often say. But Vince, you had a story today. You just recently were on the West Coast. with the Knicks. You're back in Detroit now. But the Knicks have had a bit of a choppy trip to the West Coast. They're, uh, they always got to vacate this time of year because, uh, there's various conference tournaments that move into the garden. And you, you know, for a team that's, you know, got a pretty good record, I think the fact that this, there's a story about the issues facing them

is appropriate because as I talk to Knicks fans, Nick's fans are, there was a bunch of Knicks fans in LA this week and I ran into a number of them when I was in LA because the Knicks played two games in LA this week. I missed you by like 24 hours, Vince, by the way. There's, there's Agita. There's, there's annoyance about the Knicks. And so you sort of tackled that. And as they tried to recover here, thought we would take a look here. And, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, Vince, where do you think the Knicks are performing at this point in the season? Right now, like, I think it's kind of an odd thing because when they were going out west. I felt like they played reasonably well

in a loss to Oklahoma City. And then they blew the doors off to Denver Nuggets who they always seem to have a good time with. And then you have back-to-back bad performances against the Lakers and Clippers. And then you beat the Utah Jazz, but they were playing two G-Ligger. They were playing two G-leaguers.

They just won the previous game, and I'm almost disregarding that. I'm disregarding that game. No sense. Survive in advance, I think, honestly, because in the three seed, Wendy, the question that I have for Nick fans is, do you want to be on the line of playing Detroit in the second round, who's been your boogeyman,

or do you want to play the Boston Celtics in the second round with Newark and Improved Jason Tatum? So that's the difference between the third seed and the fourth seat. So right now, I think my concern level will be right out about maybe out of six. Brian, just because some of their issues are coming out to bear, Jalen Brunton is the one guy that can. can create shots. Like when you ask O.G. Ananoby or Mikhail Bridges who disappeared for games at a time to do more than what they're capable of doing, you see the turnovers, you see the issues. And then when you ask Carl Towns to do more, then it becomes a little bit more on the clunky side. And you're not sure

if this is regression, like 30-year-old regression, or this is a guy who's not completely comfortable in the offense the way that he was comfortable in the Tom Thibito offense a year ago. And, you know, defensively they've been better. I think it's important to point out from January 15th to now, they're the best defense in the league. The last three games doesn't show that, but they've been good for a two-month sample size. It's just that nobody believes in it outside of the Nick Walls. And you wonder if that's residue from Tom Thibodeau, if that's residue from some of the

doubts that people have had coming into the season. And they got about a month together. Two months is not a small sample size. Exactly. No, it's not. Did I read it right in your story? over the course of the season, even they have a better offense and a better defense than they ranked last year. Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. They're a top 10 offense, the top 10 defense. But everybody seems to canonize what they were under Tom Thibito because they were, you know, the comeback kids last year and they made this run to the Eastern Conference finals. But statistically, they are a better team. It's just that when the numbers bear it out, the eye test doesn't seem to support that. Or at least the eye test doesn't seem to support that against certain competition. in an Eastern Conference where everybody felt like it was the Knicks for the taking,

now they're just one of four good teams. Their lows seem extremely low this year, too. It's funny. You were on the West Coast with them recently, right? The two L.A. games were kind of embarrassing. I was in Northern California with them, gosh, this might have been January. Remember Mike Brown goes back to Sacramento and they lose to the Kings. Then they go get blown out by the Warriors.

Go home. Remember that Mavericks game that, you know, I think they were like 15-point favorites. They were down by like 30 at some point. It felt that felt like such a low moment that I don't know, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe that Tibido team last year didn't have the lulls of the season as much where it felt so, you know, I don't know. Yeah, loud. Loud. Loud is the word. Yeah.

But, you know, last year you had the cavaliers were, however, you know, they were on pace for 65, whatever wins. You had the Celtics with Tatum, like, look, you know, as the defending champs. It felt at this time last season, in my opinion, like there was less of a path for them to the finals than it does right now. But the fact that obviously they went and did what they did in the playoffs probably generated the expectations. But it was interesting for me to read in your story that they actually rank better offensively and defensively. Yet I agree that it's very angsty. Can I read you some stats, Vince? Okay, sure.

Let's go to stat boy. Carl Towns since the All Star break, 12 games. You know, 12 games does not make a season, but, you know, 12 games. 21 points, 12 rebounds, 61% shooting, 48% on threes. And yet, after every game or most games, it feels like it's a referendum on Carl Towns. That's pretty good.

Wendy, the question is, what are the expectations on Carl Towns? And it's almost like last year set an unfair bar where he was 25 and 12 and all NBA third team. It's almost like the season that he's having this year, to some degree as a whole, is the season people expected out of him last year where they thought the glare of New York City

was going to get to him. And he played really well. And I'm with you. He looks more comfortable post All-Star break. His offensive rebounding numbers have been good. He's not shooting the three at a high volume, but he's shooting it well. It's just when you look at him in Jalen Brunton as a quote-unquote one-two punch, it feels like he's been underwhelming. When my thing is, if you, do you want Carl Towns commandeering the offense in the 30 minutes a night that he plays? If so, be prepared for offensive the files, be prepared for it to look ugly, be prepared for the McHale Bridges and the OG Anonomies to get lost within that because Carl doesn't know how he's not a post-up guy. Like he doesn't have a very smooth offensive game.

It's effective, but it's not the prettiest because he's just, it's like he's uncoordinated. He's not uncoordinated. It just doesn't look like he's coordinated. And that leads to the offensive files and all the other things that come with the Carl Carl Town's experience. but I'm with you, Wendy, because I know this is going to get clipped and everything else. Carl Towns has exceeded to large degree expectations post-all-star break, and he's trending positively. People just don't see it that way.

Because, as you say, he lives in a world where his salary is what it was. The trade, you know, ushered in the reality that this team was ready to win a championship. His demeanor on the court, his fouls. I mean, I should bring up the fouls because that's fair. He's averaging, let's see here. How many times has he fouled out? That would be my question. Let me see.

I know he felled out. I know he felled out. The other night. Yeah, he fought it against the clippers. And some, like, low, so there's been some times this season. It's like 6,022 minutes or something like that. Yes, and this is a thing. Like, there are times when he does this and you people, they throw their hands up.

And I would just say this. If you expect Carl Towns to be. to be a first-team all-N-B-A player who, like, goes in there and, you know, rips out rebounds like he's Rodman and shoots threes like he's Curry and, you know, beats his chest and runs over people. He is not going to, he's going to let you down. If you look for a guy who's going to absolutely put up giant numbers almost every night and is going to be a second star.

And, you know, maybe he's a third team all-N-B-A player in a good year. That's who he is. I mean, I mean, I, and that's a, you know, that's a good player to have. It's in the glare of Janus. He's been an all-star six times or something like that. Yeah.

Wendy, it's all in the glare of Janus. Like, let's be perfectly honest here. Right. This is all both he and, uh, Mikhail Bridges, who they traded five first round picks for, because Stephen 8 will tell you that every single time that the New York Knicks come up on first take, those two players are under the harsh glare of that.

Remember, I point this out all the time. Carl Anthony Townsend not get a contract extension before the start of the season because the Knicks know to get a guy like Janus, that means big numbers have to go out. And McKell Bridges got his extension, you know, for 150 million dollars, whatever it was. But he's also the guy that you depleted your draft assets for a player who may be your fourth best. starter. And maybe on some nights, your fifth best starter. And that's why a lot of the attention is so harsh on both of them because everybody has wonderlust of what we could have had with Janus, maybe what we can have again with Janus, except we don't know if we're going to have that

with Janus. And now we look at the Eastern Conference and what looked to be like our year looks like we are going to be lucky maybe to get to the conference finals if it all breaks right. Can I read you some stats? Sure, stat boy. Jalen Brunson since the All-Star break. This is all covered kind of in your story, by the way. Just, you know, your story is the source material, just to be clear. 12 games, just like Kat.

23 points, which is good, but it's down from 27 before the break. 43% shooting, which is average, down from 47% before. His assists are good. He's averaging 8 a game. He's averaging 6 before the break. It's a bit of a slump, but, you know, This is something people are asking me about. They're like, how are they going to get Jalen out of his slump?

So I ask you, is it a slump? And is it something to worry about? Or is it just, you know, just a slight downturn? I think it's regression to the mean. I think we all go back to the quote from last year about, hey, can Jalen Brunson at six feet one or six feet nothing be the best player on a team that wins an NBA championship? And we know the two players who that applies to. in the course of modern NBA history, that's Isaiah Thomas and Stephen Curry.

And you're talking about two top three point guards of all time. And it's unfair to hold Jalen Brunson to that particular standard. But that's the standard that Nick fans or the New York Knicks are holding themselves to if they plan on getting to June. And I think defensively he's been more active. And maybe it's a matter of only having so much bandwidth on both ends of the floor. Secondarily, the Knicks' offense has been better. when Jalen Brunson is not commandeering the ball, dribbling it into dust.

The problem with that, Wendy, is, who else is there to create shots? Who else is there to create offense? His teams are starting to double him on the picking rolls. They're starting to get the ball out of his hands and asking other guys to make shots. And Jalen Brunton and Mike Brown have to find counters to that to get him the ball in space to where multiple defenders aren't there. It's a work in progress. But I tend to believe that Brunson being the big game player that he is, that those

numbers will trend upward, even if I don't think he's a 30 point a night guy at his core, I think he should be around 24, 25 on a team like this when you got a guy like Carl Towns, when you're not playing 40 minutes a night. This feels like this is what the formula should be, Wendy. It's just that people expect so much. And they're comparing everything to the ideal of what last season was as opposed to maybe the reality of what last season was. Is the tension we're talking about the, you know, the lack of belief in them.

You mentioned that there is, maybe there's a belief inside the walls. It's not there outside the walls. I mean, but you're around them. Clearly, it's a fan base that's on edge. How does it feel internally to you when you're around them? I mean, do they feel like they, you know, they have a run ahead of them? It's hard with those guys because not that they're up and down Slater, but, you know, the tenor of a locker room.

can go from night to night depending on who's there. Like when I was in L.A. for the Laker game, I see this guy walking in the locker room and shaking hands. And I'm like, who is this guy? And I barely get a glimpse of him. You know who it was? Jim Dolan. Like, imagine, you know what I mean? Like the glare of the owner popping into the locker room. You're going to see the glare on his teeth. That owner in particular. How rare sighting is it to see him on the road? Well, for one, I don't travel with the team on the road so it's hard. But I will say this. It took me to ask someone that look like James Dolan.

Is that Jim Dolan? Yeah, that's Jim Dolan. Really? For one, that he's shorter than I thought. And that's not a shot at him. I was just like, if you only see a guy from the stand, you have no. Kind of a shot. No, no, no.

But I'm the tallest dude. And he was like hunched over. So I couldn't get a feel for, you know what I'm saying? Like his height in that way. And when you're around seven footers. That's true. You know what I mean? It's hard for that.

So I didn't, you know, I didn't mean it that way. It warps your, it warps your, it warps your, your sense of height when you're around all these dudes. Don't aggregate me. I'm not taking a shot at James Dolan's height. Like, y'all, come on, y'all. I am saying his teeth are white. They're very white. I, you know, I hope I don't get banned from the garden for saying that.

I don't, I, well, first off, Carl Towns's fault is fouled out seven times a shirry's second league in fouls per game. Just fouled up on that. That sounds about right. Jackson did not provide me with that information. I'm going to get, like, Jared Jackson for me, is like a Western Conference version of that of a guy. And he hasn't even played half the damn season.

He's filed out more. Hope you're recovering well, Jaron. He had knee surgery recently. He's an absolutely great guy, absolutely wonderful, wonderful, wonderful guy who rebounds the hell out of the ball and sometimes makes you slap your head going,

why did you foul? Why did you foul, Jared? But great guy. Mitchell Robinson, you highlight in your story as well, Mitchell Robinson is averaging. This number is crazy, Vince. He's averaging eight offensive rebounds per 36 minutes. Insane.

That's one of the greatest offense. That's Moses Malone level offensive rebounding. Most Malone is one of the most unbreakable records in basketball. I would argue maybe even pro sports is Moses Malone's offensive rebounding record. Is it a record or is it a mark? Because we've been talking about records and marks the past two days on ESPN's apparatuses. We're treating 81 like 81's a record when 81 is just a very, very high mark. What you're talking about is a record.

More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Did you see what Spoh said tonight before the game? I apologize to no one for nothing. I love it. Period. You know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of Michael Corleone and the Godfather, too. You can have my offer now, Senator. Nothing. I hate to just pile on, but like, you guys know how, if you liked this in the pod, I thought it was an awesome thing. We had Bam on NBA countdown yesterday. Bam was still glowing. Loved it. I know you've been on TV talking about events, but just for our listeners, your position on the performance was.

Let's get it on the record. So go ahead, Slater. Go ahead. Yeah, to me it was like a 66 point game, masquerading as an 83 point game. He probably should have been, you know, subbed out early fourth. You know, I don't have this, you know, out prior. Subbed out because of why? I mean, they were, like, mid, mid-fourth. Because the game was in hand. Yes, exactly.

You know, not because you have to pay respects to Kobe Bryant, right? Yeah, no. I mean, like, what if, what if Bam came down on an ankle, you know, something like that in the fourth? Like, I, look, it is when. it is. I'm just saying like I thought it was I agree. 83 part of it was a little fake, but I mean, if Bamada bio scored like 66 points and played three, three and a half quarters, it's basically what he did do. And like that was incredible to me. Absolutely agree. The last five minutes of the game was not a game that we are familiar with. Vince. I will say this. As I said this this morning

on first take before it was hijacked in all of the negative ways. If you score 30 points in the first quarter, I'm not passing for the next week. And anybody got a problem with that. You can have a problem with that. Right. Like, statistically, it didn't look great. It wasn't like he shot over 50% from the field. He didn't shoot an enormous number from three.

But when you got it going early and your teammates keep feeding you and you got 40 at the half and you get 60 after three and you got 71 with like nine minutes left, yeah, you go for it. And when the wizards, because they're the Washington Wizards, decide to do all the crazy town things, then Eric's supposed to replies in kind. Like it looked like at a moment before Bam got to 81, he was trying to take himself out of the game and Spoh was leaving him in. So at that point, what do you do?

You play the game and you tell them to stop you. They put three guys on them and it looked like a clown car from a cartoon show where they were bump in each other's heads and they had no choice but to follow him. What are you supposed to miss the free throws? Do I remember it right that Kobe before, like maybe a week or two, before you had 81. He had like 62 and three quarters in Dallas.

I think it was something. Yeah. 62. Yeah. And so I think I better check this or maybe Jackson and check me on this. I think Phil, no, never mind. You know what? I'm going to walk that back.

I think Phil asked him if he wanted to go in and go for the record and he said no. He said, no, we don't need it. Like we got the game in hand. And I think Brian Shaw told this story. And I don't remember who read, who I read who told the story. I'm not trying to hijack it. I just don't remember in this minute. So all due respect to whoever wrote it, whoever wrote the story initially from Brian Shaw. Brian Shaw, like, second guess the decision and told Kobe like, come on, man, you got to try to go get 70 at the least.

And he's like, no, he goes, I'll get it another day. I'll give it another day. And like, it turned out, like, within a couple of weeks, he got the 81. I've seen various versions of this covering the Warriors. I've seen Clay Thompson get into 60 and three quarters. So the Clay Thompson story. Well, I'll say the other one. He scored 62 in 30, 29 minutes. Yeah. Okay.

60 on 11 dribbles, I remember that one. But also, you know. Hold on. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Then Steve Kerr, like, sort of his quote, we just heard his post quote, Steve Kerr's quote was, they said Dean Smith was the only guy who could hold Jordan under 30. Well, I'm the only guy who can hold Clay under 80. That's what he says.

Yes. But also, Clay Thompson, when he got the 14 threes in Chicago to break Steph's record, the record that still stands, 14 threes in a game. The last like three of those threes were in a 40-point blowout in Chicago at a pretty embarrassing time for the Bulls where like Steve Kerr was like looking down at Fred Hoyberg like apologizing as the Warriors are like thirstily getting Clay Thompson like triple team threes to get to 14 to break Steph's record. So it's like, you know, and I don't think there was much of an outcry in the aftermath of like, oh, can you believe they did that for Clay? So there's like give and take with all. Can I just ask a question that I don't have the answer to? I'm just going to, it's sort of rhetorical, but feel free to answer it.

Under what circumstances for Kobe and Laker fans would Kobe's record, would it have been okay to break Kobe's record? It's not a record. It's just the market. Okay, I'm sorry. I take that back. Under what circumstances, would it have been deemed acceptable for someone to exceed Kobe's 81 point mark? They would probably say Luca at this point, right? Let's say LeBron scored.

Let's say LeBron scored 82 points. Oh, Jesus. Like, short of that, short of the 82nd point coming, like in the fourth quarter of a tied game seven. How about the game winner got him to 82? You're trying to paint this perfect circumstance. Oh, I'm just saying, like, I'm not even 100% sure that there would be universal praise for that. I'm just saying that. There's universal praise for nothing in modern society.

Well, that's what I'm saying. And especially for Kobe, who the fans of the Lakers guard Kobe's legacy like it's a family member. And so what I'm saying is, is that this was absolutely an imperfect event. I don't think there was, I don't think a perfect event is possible. I don't even think of a Laker, like short of the guy making the 82nd point to win a championship at the buzzer, I'm not, for the Lakers. I'm not sure the Laker fans would have accepted the, you know, easily the record being exceed, or the mark being exceeded.

You know what it is? It's for them, they hold on to it as if, like you said, they guard it. like it's a family member and they feel like if it's exceeded, then it will be somehow forgotten or erased. Like I saw Ice Cube's son, actor O'Shea Jackson, saying that the league conspired to get Bam past Kobe's record because they want to erase Kobe's legacy within the NBA, to which I say why. But these people, the Kobe stands, not the general fans, but the Kobe stands, the unreasonable people, they can't be bargained with. Right. That's exactly my point.

They have no. Hey, great job at the league there choosing Tuesday night, Wizards Heat on League Pass, by the way. Yeah, the scripted thing. That was beautiful. By the way, in terms of like respect and everything like that, can I ask Vince, where do you come down on Dejante Murray crossing over Jamal Shed and then barking at him? And then his team, the Raptor, is doing nothing about it. Where are you at on that?

Considering that Dejante Murray is coming off of this Achilles and all that. My general thing is maybe there was some trash talk between the two before them, but I hear that Jamal Shed is not that type of dude. And secondarily, what your teammates at? If somebody's standing over your guy, regardless of the circumstances, maybe it's because I'm here in Detroit and Isaiah Stewart will do more for less. You know what I mean? Like, I just kidding. UBSD, what would beef stew do? You don't want to know the answer to those questions.

Like, even just me, if someone's standing over a friend of mine and we hooping, hey, doc, what you doing? This is a pickup game. And I'm going to have problems with you. He's in the league to defend guys like that. That's why he's in the league. Can we talk about the pelicans quick? I mean, you know, they're winning, right?

They're winning with their veterans, which, I understand why they're doing it. They didn't want to pivot away from a lot of their guys at the deadline. They don't have their pick, right? There's not an incentive to tank. But they're also like Jeremiah Fears and their Queens minutes are going down and down and down. And I just like, they're a curious offseason team to me. Because if they go on this mini run right now with Dejante Murray, I think impressively coming back.

I mean, you mentioned it right there. But like, he's a good off this Achilles. Are they just going to like stay in? They're going to be a 27 win team going to the summer, but be like, this last month was great. they're going to ride it out again. I just, it's very curious, like, where, yeah. So let me just, let me just say, like, if you look at, like, they've, they've gone on this streak where they've won seven of 12, I guess, or seven and, no, seven of 10, seven and ten, seven

and three. So if you look at the wins, Warriors, which twice against the jazz, kings, wizards, like, you know, they're, you know, okay. So I, I was with the, uh, the pelicans last week in L.A. talked to some of their people. And basically, here's the deal. When Zion and Jonte Murray got healthy, there was an organizational question. Like, what are we doing here? And the mandate that came down from the top is we are trying to win. They don't control their draft pick. So the mandate that came down was we are trying to win. And they had watched

Jeremiah Fears and Derrick Queen start for 40-something games. And it resulted in non-winning basketball, particularly on the defense event. And by the way, that is not meant to be a slam and a shot at those guys, you are not going to win with two starting two rookies just about any time in NBA history. Okay? That is not, you know, it is what it is. And so basically they, you know, they're like, okay, you want to win, right? Yes, we want, you know, front office. We want to win. Okay, well, then we're taking the rookies out of the starting lineup and putting in the veterans, which for a while was DeAndre Jordan. He

started multiple games. And I, you know, the way it was said to me is even if, you know, Derek Queen sits there for the first five minutes of the first quarter and watches how D'Andre Jordan, you know, I think Borego said this on the record, James Brego, essentially. He said, if Jeremiah Fears can just watch, Jeremiah Fears and Derek Queen can just watch the first five minutes of the first quarter and third quarter, and watch how D'Andre Jordan is executing the game plan defensively. And then John D'Andre D'Odden doesn't play again, then he will have done his job. I think that part of it's okay. Like the player development side,

I'm not going to go over the top. Like, oh, fear's only got, you know, 14 minutes. He should have been playing and crunch time.

My bigger question is at the deadline, they could have got a haul for Tray Murphy. They could have got a haul for Herb Jones. Maybe if they dangled Zion, you know, like they could have like really leaned into a rebuild. They have a lot of very coveted pieces, winning pieces that I think would net some really nice draft capital.

And they decided not to do it. You know, you talk to teams that talk to them. Well, it's hard to tank when there's eight other tankers, you know, I mean, to me, it's less of a tank and more of like a strike while the iron is hot and while trade Murphy's values at his highest, okay, fine, you don't do that. My question would be, as I watch what's going on, is are they going to have this fake

run, probably, I would say fake run over the next month, month and a half, not make the playing because they're nowhere near it, go into the offseason and go, look, hey, we had our veterans together. We're a winning, you know, like mix and then just not trade those guys again this summer, which I'm not even saying is wrong or right, but it's risky. Just like it was risky, I think not. to move off Murphy. Like Murphy might have like, what would he have got at the deadline?

Well, but they could still trade for more. Right. I think what happened was the teams that might have been interested in Tray Murphy weren't willing to come off of the assets that New Orleans was actually asking for. I think it was in the reverse. I mean, I heard New Orleans was basically saying, no, no, no, like, let's not even talk about. Well, I also think Joe Dumars, like, doesn't want to do a midseason trade. I think, I think the, I think, I think he kind of put that out there.

Like, look, we're not going to do a. mid-season trade, we're going to stay here. So, and look, here's the thing. When you got eight tankers, like Atlanta, Atlanta, they've been doing pretty well here. They've won six and around. I don't know if they're playing tonight. Maybe I'll jinx them.

Part of what's going on is Atlanta ain't tanking in the Eastern Conference where all the teams below them are. And they're not tanking because they don't control their pick. Well, number one, they set that situation up themselves with a trade that I know has been questioned many times on this podcast, number one. Number two, my bigger question, again, I don't even want to like relitigate the deadline. My question is what I said, which is the summer, does this, what's happening now, which is them beating these, you know, flimsy teams right now, is that going to make them hit fast forward in the summer?

And I don't know, do you all think that's a good idea? Because we're not talking about tanking in the summer. We're talking about maybe shedding some of these pieces and reforming a rebuild. You're making a good point. Okay. It's a reasonable point. I do want to come back to Vince's story We were talking about Mitchell Robinson Yeah I'm sorry I always do this Jackson knows

I always take us for a little That was probably my fault honestly No no I liked it Don't get me wrong Mitchell Robinson is He's averaging eight Offensive Rebounds per 36 minutes It's like I saw somebody

tweeted it I'm sorry if I can't give you credit My mind is going It's like more than like almost every team How much they average per 30 minutes per 36. But you point out here two things. Because I'll tell you this, Joe Missoula, he's a pretty good coach. It's a pretty good coach. And the Joe Missoula decided that the most important thing in the series with the Knicks last year was to get Mitch Robinson off the court said a lot. Or maybe not the

most important thing, but a high level on their game plan. And so you point out two things, Vince. Number one, that in this plan to keep Mitch Robinson healthy, which has worked, they're not playing them that many minutes. And how is that going to translate to the playoffs? And the second thing is, there was hack and Mitch going on at a high level in last year's playoffs. That was when he shot 68% from the foul line. This year, he's shooting 39% from the foul line. So while Mitch continues to be like the premium X factor in the Eastern Conference, What about conditioning for the playoffs and what about that free throw situation that you bring up in this story?

It's the double-edged sword, right? Because the Knicks are one of those teams that they love to offensive rebound and kick it out and spray. Like that's one of Mike Brown's tenants, spray back outside and get open shots. We know that a lot of times it's the best time to get three-point shots is because the defense is in scramble mode. You can't track guys. And they have a strategy with that. The problem is if Mitchell Robbins and gets an offensive rebound, before he even kicks it out,

they're going to foul. I was about the curse. They're going to foul him and file him hard. Because he getting the ball out of his hands, he's not trying to go up for a shot or anything like that. They're going to have to be very judicious and how they use him in the postseason because he's so valuable. And even on defense,

like he is such a big body. He is a massive human being amongst massive human beings. It's almost like for every question there's an answer. and then similarly, there's for every answer, there's a question, and that is the duality of this New York next season. Number one, 39% is crazy. But two, like, you know, if you just pick up fouls in a playoff series in game two, you get three first half fouls on Jalen Duren and you go one to six from the line.

Like, you still did a great job there, right? You know, you got some of these guys in foul trouble. So he's a massive factor. And if they're going to, if they're going to hack a Robinson, him off the floor, that shows you what type of factory is because they don't want them on the floor. Well, Sunday, I should point out, the Warriors are at the garden.

Yes. Are you doing this whole seven-game road trips later? So is a sixth gamer. I was waiting on the Steph update and talking to people and deciding I was going to do the whole six-gamer if Steph is on it, but Steph is not on it, so I will be joining in Boston and doing the last four.

Okay. Sorry, you won't see him there, Vince. I don't know if you're going to be there. I'll be there. I'll be there. So the stuff update is what, and the Warriors update is what? They're playing the wolves tomorrow at home. The wolves get back when they just had a rough couple of days in L.A.

They've fallen below 500. Yeah, for the first time since like December. It's a little bit of a kick-the-can down the road. It's the third straight time they've done a 10-day re-evaluation, which rules them out another five games. This absence will now stretch to 20 games, which is a massive chunk of the season. This issue popped up.

Remember when they were in Minnesota? They had the baseball series. the first game got postponed. It was January 24th with the unrest in Minneapolis. He did an individual workout that day as everything in Minneapolis is going on around him. And during a workout, his knee swelled up and started hurting. Played through it a couple games. But then against Detroit on January 30th, he leaves in the third quarter after hitting an one floater.

And they just decide this was like five, six games before the All-Star break. Hey, shut them down, probably till the All-Star break. Get this runner's knee is what they're calling it right. There's no structural damage. They've MRIed a few times. But when he works out, including during an All-Star weekend, it just hasn't responded well. It's swelling. It's dull pain.

It's really kind of an overuse injury. And, you know, they shut it down out of the break. And now, again, it's going to reach up to 20 games. And I think that if they were, if Jimmy Butler was around and they were trying to, like, muscle their way into, you know, a top four type seed, if it was a different type situation, with different realistic goals ahead of them in this season. I think that they'd be throttling down a bit more. But next season has become the season in this final Steph era.

And I don't think at all they want to jeopardize that. And this is from what I gather, an injury that, you know, they fear if you do put him back on the court and he's not quite ready, it could, you know, re-injure, re-aggravate whatever you want to say. So they know they're going to be in the 9-10. At this point, I mean, I should say this. They know they're going to be in the play-in. They've known they're going to be in the playing bracket for a while. If you look at what's going on in the playing right now, though the clippers are rolling.

Yes. Can I just say in the last three days, the clippers have moved above 500. Yeah. And the warriors have moved below and therefore the clippers have moved ahead. I'm just going to say, I don't know the health. I don't know about the aspiration. I wish I could say I've got strong reporting on the aspiration thing. I do not, you know.

I mean, obviously, I know what's been investigated and what Pablo Tori has reported and others. I don't know what the resolution is going to be. I just don't. You know, there's a ton of talk about. There's a ton of rumors. Nothing that I would say I can substantiate. So I just don't know. There's some stuff with the clippers.

I just don't know. I don't know whether Kauai Leonard is going to be healthy. What I do know is this. The clippers are now in eighth place and don't let them get to sixth with a healthy Kauai. Because, and they're way back from six. There's six games back from six. I do not believe they can make that. up okay.

Yeah, six is a lot right now. But I will also tell you they've got the third easiest schedule. Well, it's a good point. And again, I'm saying this more in like the Warriors lens here and why I'm telling you they're trapped now in the 9-10 because I think six out of the next eight Clippers games are against like lottery teams, whereas the next five for the Warriors, again, all without Steph Curry are Minnesota. And then they go on this road trip that you mentioned that's Knicks.

And then it's at Wizards. Okay. But then it's at Boston, at Detroit, at Atlanta. in the next week or two, they're probably going to end up being like four or five games back of the clippers. So, you know, I can go a little Brian Windhorst right now. I can start, you know, booking, play in hotels. They're going to play the Portland Trail Blazers.

The 9-10 West play-in week is going to be Blazers warriors in the 9-10. The Blazers are going to be on the road. I have no one. Well, I shouldn't say that. No. Blazers are going to be in the 9-10 game. I agree. Yeah, I don't know which of those two teams is going to be 9-10.

It's going to be close. I don't know. Yes, the Sons are struggling right now. I'm sorry. The Sons have won three in a row. But the sons could move out of the play, and they're right on the wolves' heels. They've got a five-game gap between seven and eight. So the Sons are like, hey, can we get into this top six?

The Clippers have 17 games left and are six games out. That would be a miraculous. They would probably have to do something like go 15 and 2. Right, right. It would have to be something. But they've gone on hot streaks. You know, before. Yes, but traded James Hardin, traded DeVeechizuvich.

Like, I know, like, right now they're playing well, Mathrin. I think they're going to beat up some of the bad teams in the near future. But I'll say, like, that was them, you know, completely, you know, I guess pulling their ceiling out or like lowering their ceiling for the season. So I don't fear them that much in a six. I know how well Kauai is playing right now. But they, what was that, their second and fourth best player, you know, basically, they traded away at the deadline. Like, I don't know. I don't see it in a playoff series.

All right. Well, right now also, before I let Vince go back out to the game, the Pistons are up by nine at the half. It's halftime in Orlando. The magic are beating the Wizards. The Wizards are trying to, you know, defend their honor. Orlando. What honor?

I mean, I will say this. I don't know if you're TSN, the Canadian Sports Network. Sam Mitchell, the former coach of the Raptors, was on the Raptors post game show the other night. And they like the Dolphins, like the 72 Dolphins. Every year when the last undefeated team loses, they pop champagne because Sam has been long derided for not being more aggressive on Kobe back in 2006. And Sam was enjoying BAM's cracking the Kobe mark. But anyway, the magic had a nice quality win over the Cavs on Wednesday night. And, you know, at the risk of, you know, having Jackson have to edit this out if the wizards beat them.

The magic are doing some things. Despite, you know, Franz Wagner not, they gave a not update update. Like, they were like, he's still progressing and he'll be, we'll give you an update coming soon. So it's a high ankle sprain. I don't know. It was something that he was, it didn't it feel like he was closer and then, I don't know. Like, I don't know that they said setback, but it felt a little. He's had setbacks.

See, multiple setbacks for this injury. Since the All-Star break, the Orlando Magic, who, which often pointed out, have not been out of the bottom 10 in offense in 14 years, 20th or lower in offense for 14 consecutive years. Since the All-Star break, they are eight and three as a team. We'll see if they went tonight. I would go nine and three, and they have the eighth best offense in that stretch and the number three defense in that stretch. They've been a good defensive team for a couple of years now. But eighth best offense, and if you, you know, watching that game last night, you know, Bancaro has, we keep getting these updated numbers from Joel Glass. Let me give the updated numbers coming into tonight's game.

Joel Glass's magic, since the All-Star break, the Magic have an offensive rating of 117. which is tied for seventh. Defensive rating, 100107.3, which is tied for third. And obviously, Palo, we've talked about Palo a lot,

his stats. But forget about the stats. I'm going to move off the stats for a second. When you watch the Magic Play right now and you watch them pressure the rim and you watch them go in transition and you watch Des Bain. And I'll tell you one thing,

in this era of nobody hitting 65, Des Bain has not missed a game, knock on wood for Des. And he is coming, he's starting to, you know, when he's not throwing the ball at people, which it's not that off, does, but he is, you know, it's often said to me, or it has been said to me over the years, that it takes longer for offense to come together than defense to come together, that everybody just assumes that when you bring in a great offensive player, then it just clicks.

But historically, it takes longer offensively. And I think the calves are actually having that growing pain a little bit right now. I know their record with James Hardin is good, but if you actually watch them, Their offense has not been as potent since he got there. And I think that's part of a learning curve that they are dealing with. The magic with Bain and also with this alignment are coming into their own. And, you know, I'm going to talk about the Clippers, you know, watch out. Well, the magic have moved out of the playing zone.

They've moved into fifth. The Raptors have lost six of ten. The Raptors really have not fared well against the better teams. Yeah, they can't beat the teams at all. They're still seven games over 500, but they've slipped all the way to seventh now. and the magic are in fifth. And, you know, BPI, I don't really pay that much attention to BPI, but BPI says that Cavs magic is going to be likely going to be a four or five matchup.

So I'll just point out, Vince, that the magic are showing some teeth on offense. And that's a significant development in the East. Look, I think it goes back to Paula Ben-Carroll and Jamal Mosley having, I won't say war of words. That would be a bit strong. But Van Carroll, after they lost to Detroit, Ben Carroll talked about us not, you know, we didn't make adjustments. And Jamal Mosy said, they just played harder than us. And since then, it felt like a dam has broken where maybe some of that underlying tension can play itself out and people can clear the air.

And like you said, Desmond Bain figuring things out in this offense. Well, we looked at in the offseason, a lot of us thought where Detroit is, Orlando would be because of this acquisition, because of assumed help with Ban Carroll and Wagner being on the floor together at the same time. Like, it's starting to come around. I would say this about the heart thing. So I was talking to an executive about trade deadline moves, teams who didn't make them. And he said to me, what trade deadline moves have actually worked? And I thought about it and I said, Rashid Wallace, of course, 2004, DeKinbe Matumbo, 2001, 76ers.

They got to the finals, DeKinbe for Theo Ratliff. Powell, Gassau, which wasn't a trade deadline move, I don't think. But it was- That's true. It was a earlier season. I think it was after Andrew Biden got hurt. It was mid-season move. And he was like, yeah, four of those instances or whatever it was, maybe it was one more. It's like four of those instances out of 20 X amount of years. Like, these things don't happen that often, even if it seems like all of us can play fantasy GM. So the point about the Hardin thing was if Hardin falls into that category, it's what you talked about, Wendy, the expected struggle, especially for a player who has as much control the office. offense as hard and does, you know, not that he commandeers anything, but he is the system. This is not exactly comparable because of the dynamics of that trade, but look at the Kevin Durant trade a couple years ago. I mean, they took their whole team and turned it sideways, but that Durant trade to Phoenix, like, you know, that didn't work out, you know, short term or long term, but, you know, that's, I mean, you know, Durant's never said I am the system,

but you could say about Durant, he's the system. Wendy, can I detour you one more time before this podcast ends? No, we focus on the pod. No, it's, I watched that Magic Cavs game last night, the one we're matching Magic, nice win, Bain, look great. But I see Keon Ellis hitting like three-th-threes and like late in the fourth quarter look great, right? What, he played 30 minutes? Yeah, he's played 30 minutes a couple times in a row.

Yeah, I mean, you're obviously locked in on the Cavs a lot, you know, on the blow-by-blow. How good has he been? He's been exactly what the Cavs thought they were getting from a defense, you know, he's a defensive playmaker. You know, he gets his hand on a ton of balls. He creates steals. he creates fast break opportunities. You know, defensive playmakers are kind of hard to find.

It's kind of while I'm asking because, like, he was very extremely available at the deadline for anybody in the league. And, you know, the Kings just never got there, you know, asking price of a first round pick. They obviously ended up pivoting and basically using him to dump the Dennis Schrooter contract. And he's always been, like, coaches have never trusted him the way that front offices and scouts love them and the local fans in Sacramento loved them. But, you know, it's obviously not a great look for the Kings to basically get off

him and he's like a, you know, closer at times for an Eastern Conference team. And I just, I don't know, I'm just watching it last night. It was one of the things else thing. Well, I'll say this. He's been, I think he's been, and this could be, I'm pretty sure Bobby Marks briefed me on this because, but I think he's trade eligible, I mean, extension eligible. He's, yes, February 9th, he was extension eligible. It's part of the reason the Kings had to trade him, even though he was working pretty gifted. And the Cavs haven't signed him yet. Yeah. So, I mean, what is, what that tells you is, you know, that. He thinks he's playing himself. to a bigger deal. And maybe that's why he didn't have quite the, you know, I guess market that the

kings were hoping he would at the deadline. But like, this guy was really available to a lot of teams. And you mentioned it, defensive playmaker, deflection king, steals, all that. And I just, you know, he might end up being a real factor in the playoffs. And I think it could look bad on the league in the general that nobody went out and grabbed him. And then also like the kings, but that's, that's a deeper story about the kings just losing him for nothing, basically. All right. Well, thank you very much, Vince. You got to go. get to work. By the way, Jackson went and found it for me

that Brian Shaw's story was an interview with Melissa Rowland, who I believe was with Fox at the time, but she is now California Post. More journalism jobs, positive. Yes. All right, thanks, guys.

We will be talking to you guys soon and have a great weekend. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Okay, always special when we have Alex Spiro, one of the nation's leading trial attorneys, He's coming from an undisclosed location with an undisclosed client list. Just for fun.

Just Google him. Just Google him. Alex, I'm just going to tell you this. There's a guy who I know in the NBA who, how should I put it? You know who he is. He's a security consultant. Okay? He's a fixer.

And he once described his job to me as, Brian, they call me in when it's fourth and 20. Well, they call Alex in when fourth and 20 didn't work. So I'll just leave it at that. He's represented a number of NBA players. But most important, Alex, and the way that you want to be introduced and the way that you identify yourself is a diehard Celtic. Not a Celtic fan. You're a Celtic.

And not only that, like, I know, you know what's going on with the team. But anyway, welcome to our humble podcast yet again. Good to see you guys. I tune in every time. So it's good to see you, you know, face to face. Yes. Okay. Now, we are doing this before the Celtics play the Thunder tonight.

Jason Tatum is sitting out tonight. The reason we're having this now is because you are. are a no-nonsense man. You have no-nonsense business. You have insight information. I want to know what you think about the way Tatum looks and what you think about where the Celtics are now that we've seen Tatum play for a few games.

I'd like him to play tonight so I could see them beat a top team. You know, we lost to the Spurs. There was a questionable backseat driving technical foul you might have seen. Lost to the wolves. Can I just say real quick because I'm famous for ripping the... You are correct. The referee who called the first technical did not call the second technical.

The referee that called the first technical, Tyler Ford, who has been on our podcast. We are Tyler Ford defenders here. Having said that, I have not talked to Tyler, but I will just say, I don't think Tyler would have thrown Jalen out. It was a younger junior referee who came in to, quote unquote, have Tyler's back that threw Jalen Brown out of the game. I do not think it was the way it should have gone down. Joe Missoula, after the game, compared it to like the principal, not. letting the assistant principal do his dirty work. I actually think Joe was right. And I think what you just said was right. Having said that, counselor, Jalen's got to control himself more in that situation.

Sure. I think we could have won that game. So we lose to the spurs. We lost to the wolves. We lost to the Nuggets. I would have liked to have seen Tatum and the full roster play tonight because I think we need a win like that. Losing record to the Knicks, losing record to the Pistons. But that being said, I'm bullish. I think we're going to the finals. I've got the hotel room book. You know, so I'm ready, I'm ready to go. Yeah, you've got the Ritz booked. I've got the courtyard booked, buddy. The hotel room booked where?

Oh, in Boston. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But you're not predicting who they're going to play. You don't, I will pick a Western conference team. Like, I mean, let me know when you book hotel rooms in the West and then we'll talk. I'm playing the field still. But yeah, I like the Celtics.

Tadden looked great. And for a few games back, he looks great. The team looks great. They're focused. And I think he fits in perfectly and they designed it as such. And when you, you talk to the team, you know, the culture and just the fight that they have, it just rings out from all the way through, from ownership, all the way down. And so I think they've built something special here,

and I think they're going to go to the fun. Well, it's a new ownership situation now. So new, you know, have you had detected any difference in the way the Celtics are operating? I know WICRewspock is still around, but it's new ownership now. Yeah, Bill's great. WIC has remained in his spot and everybody just says the world of WIC. Brad is a rock. Mike Zarin's great. I mean, you see the culture. you a little bit of the Patriots dynasty, the culture there. And you see it with the stars. I mean, Tatum, the amount of goodwill and respect that Tatum has around the league for the way he came back, the mama mentality, the way people are talking about him, you can see how well respect that he is, both inside the team and out. And then even little things like when Cornette comes back

and everyone's cheering for him, you can just see that this is a special organization. And I think they're, I think they're prime for another several final fronts. I would agree with that. Now, let me just tell you that I'm going to tell you what the scouts are now saying to me because they've now watched Tatum for a little bit. And nothing that I'm about to say is surprising. Okay. It's not a criticism also. You know I think Tatum's return has gone as well as they possibly could have imagined it and drawn it up. And I think he looks great. And I'm also on the record many times. And I will just do it again here saying that Jason doesn't have to be ready to go in the highest level today. He needs to be ready to go in the highest level. six weeks from now when the second round begins, which is where I think they're going to need him the most. But the scouts will tell you, the scouts who've watched him will tell you that absolutely you can tell how he protects the right leg.

And that, well, I mean, I pointed out that his first shot against the Mavericks a week ago, he sort of did, I called it a step back, but I was corrected by an expert, the guy named Robert Oliver, who emailed me, who is a PhD, researcher in biomechanics, and he said that it was not a step back. It was what's called a false step. And I'll maybe learn more about that. Nonetheless, I felt it was a little bit symbolic that he

showed that he would push off the right leg. That's what I'm having said that, the scouts say, look, the right leg is weaker and he sometimes is protecting it. And, you know, some teams, I talked to a scout who said he thought some teams were being a little chair. the first couple of games in not attacking him and that they will attack him more on that side. So what I'm saying is, is that I expect us to continue to learn and watch about how Jason is, and this is very much to be a process. Yeah, I think that's right. By the same token, he doesn't have to be, you know, Tatum of last year.

Jalen has ascended to being a first-team all-N-B-a-type score or just straight-up first-n-B-A, first-team-all-N-N-B-A. and Jalen is surveying the court. Some of that's the injury, some of its psychology, some of it's that he's been able to watch the team for so long. And if he ends up in more of a triple double rule and less of a I'm going to attack every play role, I think that that may be a blessing in disguise. It may lead to less your turn, my turn kind of stuff

that he and Jalen can do. So there's some benefit to that. And then listen, look at the top scores in the league. People like Jalen, Luca, you don't have to necessarily have explosiveness to find the angles. Jason has incredible footwork. He's also a big 610.

He shoots high, release point. He's going to be able to score and see the court. You can see him snatching those rebounds. And just think about who he is replacing. I mean, he's a huge upgrade. Who did better at the turn of the trade deadline than getting Jason Tatum back even 85%. So, you know, I think they look great, the team chemistry, the culture. And I don't see why they can't come out of the east.

And I think they will come out of the east. All right. Let me ask you, as an officer of the court, let me ask you this. If you were turning, if you had a vote for MVP, what would your MVP ballot look like? I want to see how impartial you can be here. Let's see. Yeah, what's polymarket saying these days? I mean, I think you've got a factor in the-

Polymercats poll because Bon Temps' poll because Bon Temps' research has routinely proven to be predictive. We should do the Bon Temps Polymarket poll. We should sort of merge the two. But I don't know where they are at in games play. I mean, is Shea and. Interesting you say that. Tonight, Victor was ruled out of the game with ankle soreness, and he only has, I think you can miss four games. So I don't know how significant that is. But yes, of course, you can include that in your answer. But as of today, Shay and Victor have not missed games to the level where they would be ruled out.

But Victor and Shay are both sort of somewhat close. Yeah, I think it's got to be Shea, Victor, and then Cade and Jailman. Excellent ballot. I respect. I respect that ballot. Let me ask you this, as long as I'm asking you to give me a ruling, give me a ruling on Bamatabio's 83 points. Oh, it was great.

Thank you. I'm on the same. After Celtics culture, the heat would be right up there. And he's just an awesome player. And I love watching him play. And, you know, let him go. Once he's got 70 late in the game, let him go. Let him try.

and it was a without hitting many threes, it was a hell of a game. So the Celtics, their team is very, very different from the last two weeks. You know, if you go back and look really since 20, sort of the 22 to 25 era where they made two finals. And then last year, I thought they were going to the finals. I had my hotel, my hotels booked in Boston for months and months, probably longer than I had in booked in Oklahoma City. But they're a very, very different team now. Their culture is the same. Their style of play is the same.

They still want to shoot a ton of threes. They still focus on low turnovers. But this is a very different team, and you're going to be relying. Now, look, the basis of the Celtics is they have three two-way, awesome two-way guys. You know, the Js and Derek White. Play both ends of the court, perimeter players, ball handlers. Can defend great. All three of them can hit a clutch shot.

And then obviously Peyton Pritchard is he has his role. But you are going to be relying in the playoffs on role players who have not done it before largely. I don't consider Peyton Pritchard. I mean, he is a role player, but I'll put him in almost in a starter quality. Do you believe that these guys who haven't done this before will be able to deliver, like those role players for the last few years, who proved themselves, Al Horford, Porzingis when he was healthy, you know, guys like that, do you believe that this team has that build out of the roster

that you need to win three playoff series? Yeah, and I think we're skipping over Cato. I think we're skipping over the fact that because of Porzingis' health and Al, you know, not being as young as he once was, that you've got an upgraded center. You've got this inspiration of Tatum coming back this way and a culture that cultivates confidence and excitement amongst the role players.

they got a lot of role players. They're deeper than they have been in a decade. So that counts for something. And I think the team will pull the right strings and keep the right guys in at different times. And they play this spread Duke college-like basketball and they've got enough two-way players that I just think the other teams in the East have weaknesses that they did not solve at the break. They did not solve at the trade deadline. And that the Celtics should should win. You sound like Jim Dull, and they should win. They should win. Okay. Clear, you know, Tatum is coming back, and I don't think it's a runaway. I mean, the pistons are tough. The Knicks have what they need. The cabs are very good. I think the Celtics match up well with the calves. Yes. And they see, you know, the wing strength of the Celtics really shows up with the calves. Yeah, and I think the pistons are missing the score. Don't, you know, need one more score. And so then you're left with, you know, are we talking about a, a Knicks, Celtics,

Eastern Conference Finals, and boy, will that be a hell of a runback? It has been said for well over a year. The Knicks have invested enormous amounts of assets and money in building their team to beat Boston. They built their team with strong wings to do it, and it was, I mean, I think they beat this. I was somebody who very strongly believed that the Celtics would win that series last year. I even believe the Celtics would win it when they were down 2-0. But also very much believed that the Knicks flat out took it and that it was going to be 3-1 and that they were going to win even if Tatum hadn't gotten hurt because I think the Knicks proved that the way they played could work against Boston. That still exists. You know, they are still, even with a different coach, they still have those weapons.

I still mystified the way games one and two went, but the fact the game that they won both of them sort of, You know, and the way that they, you know, won game four and then were so powerful in game six, like it validated that stretch. Like, that still is there that, you know, the Knicks have that. We were unexplainably lax at the beginning and the game Tatum got hurt. I mean, you don't, you can't tell me a better game played by a player in recent years or a harder game played. He was unstoppable and so broochers. But they were going to lose that game. Right.

I mean, I know it was down to the wire, but his performance was something else. And anything, I don't think given what's happened in the last 10 months with his comeback, they will be lax going into this. But again, Tatum's health is key, and OG has been playing great. I mean, he's really their wing that can guard. I think their other players are a bit small for Jalen and Tatum. And so it's really OG verse a little bit. That's true.

That's why they got him. why they paid them the max, not just what they traded for. It's why they paid them the max. All right, Alex. Well, am I going to have you back on? I'm going to have you back on after the conference finals, and we're going to see whether your confidence was accurate.

I do think Boston, probably if I had to rank the percentages, I think I would put, I think, you know, I would put Boston as the highest percentage, but it would be something like in the high 20, maybe 30%. Like, there's a lot of things that,

could still go on there. Listen, even saying that with Tatum just coming back, just tells you all you need to know about, you know, the heart of the Celtics. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. All right. Well, you're on the record.

I'll see you. I will see you after the Eastern Conference finals, if not sooner. And certainly, I'll let you know where I'm staying in Boston. All right. Sounds good. Thank you very much, Alex Spiro. We'll see you soon. All right, everybody.

Thank you so much. Thank you to all of our producers, Mark, Jackson, and Tucker, and Devon, as always. Thank you to Vince Goodwill and Anthony Slater joined us earlier. Thank you for listening and watching The Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.