Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - A HUGE Question For The Knicks’ Future + Is OKC Committed To Spending? & Kawhi Extension Reaction

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon to discuss the ongoing contract extension discussions between Karl-Anthony Towns and the Knicks including how this could set the tone for the future in New York. Then, the guys discuss some interesting quotes from Executive Vice President and General Manager of the Thunder Sam Presti with regards to OKC’s commitment to keeping their title contending squad together. Finally, we tackle how strong Kawhi Leonard’s extension with the Raptors is and explain why it is a fascinating deal. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome with the Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday morning here in Los Angeles, joining me at a much nicer hotel closer to the beach is Van McMahon. Howdy, partner? He's been taking walks, just right down on the water, you know, beautiful sun. Whoa. Whoa. Jackson.

I forgot that. I told you this. Speaking of taking walks. Holy Moses. All right. We're sitting on the set yesterday of NBA today. Eamon Shumperts with us. Malika's like taping something.

We're just sitting there waiting. It's like 10 minutes to the show. You know, Shump and I are talking about stuff. And McMahon goes, I hit by a car today. Hold on. I've got a visual aid. Wasn't that bad. I thought he's going to show us the bruise.

No, it wasn't even a bruise. So it was, I more got thudded by a car. But I'm walking. It's a crosswalk. You can tell he's not a personal defense attorney, Jackson. Listen, I should have taken. a page out of Marcus Smart's book and flopped. He is the best defensive flopper in the league, but I didn't.

The light turns, so, you know, the little white walking guy flashes, and it's my turn. So you're crossing, what you're establishing for the record, you're crossing with the light, legally crossing. Completely legally. Waited my turn. Waited for the light. And then the guy, I'm like all the way, you know, to the, like, like, trying. driver's side of the of the car and he decides he's going to turn right and thuds right into me.

And, you know, you can see where the grill the car hit me. The gentleman hits you hard enough to indent your shorts and you are not seeking legal ramifications. I just want to point out. I was hungry. I was on my way to breakfast. And look, it wasn't like, it angered me because it could have been like if I had fallen and he didn't see me. Like, it could have gotten, it was that, the worst case scenario was a scary scenario. But it wasn't hard enough to, I didn't drop my coffee. My AirPods stayed in. And the guy through his arm, and I'm, you know, I'm kind of, I'm pointing at the light.

I'm yelling. I just went on my merry way. So, yeah, hit is a strong word. I got studded by a car. Hit is a strong word. You just showed us where the bumper made a dent in your shorts. I got thudded by a car. The IT department was annoyed that I didn't tell her.

Listen, first off, before I say anything further, I'm happy that you didn't get injured because you did get struck by a car. So that's... I kind of put my left hand down and like pushed up to lessen the impact and like pushed up on the hood, you know. The first thing Shump said was, was it a rangerover? Like he wanted to know what kind of... Yeah, and I wasn't in that frame of mind. Like I said, if I'd have been financially savvy, I would have flop. I don't even remember what kind of car it was.

Well, we can analyze the rubber from the shorts. I didn't tell her about it until it's more just like a smudge. I didn't tell her about it. And they're shorts. They're athlete's your pants. You sound like what the guy would say to somebody. He's like, oh, I just, I just left a smudge on his shorts. And what am I going to do?

Say some guy with brown hair and a black car hit me. No, listen. I mean, it's too late now, buddy. I'm just, I mean, I'm just saying. I miss. I missed the chance, so I'm just going to have to keep working on ESPN for another, like, decade and half. It's never too late. You guys are journalists.

Let's FOIA those crossbreeds for the camera footage. Yeah, that's right. I'll go look for the flock cameras. Well, here's the thing. Like, McMahon, Jackson and McMahon don't talk for the next 30 seconds. Jackson, do you know why McMahon was out walking at that point? Because the luxury hotel he's staying at is so high end that he is offended by how much money they charge for breakfast. And so he was going over to get cheaper breakfast. That's why he

was injured. I was thinking, I wasn't a financial state of mind. I was just in a like double figures and not like six or seven figures state of mind. Right. Well, we're glad you're okay. When we finally got to the show yesterday, we did have some news, which was that the Carl Schaams brought to us that Carl Towns and the Knicks are very far apart in contract extension talks. You know, you never say never. There's many days until the start of the season. But I would say right now it looks unlikely. Yeah.

Unlikely that they're going to come to an agreement. So the question is, is this something, nothing, or everything, basically? You know, Carl Towns is an extremely important player. He's under contract for this season. and the Knicks are bringing back their top five guys. Their starters are all back. Yeah, on a contract for this season, and as you pointed out,

what is it, a $61 million player option for next season? Yes, that's an important number, but I'll hear what you think about this update first. Yeah, I think it is something. It's not everything. And, you know, I don't think this is a toxic situation. and I credit Kat for that. I just think Kat is in a great place professionally coming off the championship,

having disproven or certainly quieted a lot of criticism about him and his perceived flaws. Honestly, did a great job defensively in the finals, much less what he means to them on the offensive end of the floor. And then personally, he's in a great place, just got married. I think he's matured a lot over the years. So would he love to have a contract extension done? Absolutely. Is he going to take what he perceives to be? I'm not even going to say what he perceives. What would be way, way, way less

than his market value entering a summer when a lot of teams are going to have significant cap space? No, he's not going to take a low ball offer. That doesn't mean he, he's unwilling to have reasonable conversations and to, you know, take, like, he's not saying, you got to max me, right? He's, like, let's negotiate, let's figure out something that works for both sides. But this idea that the millionaires always have to be the ones that sacrifice and the billionaires don't is like, I'm sorry, dude, but. Well, look, here's really the question. The second apron is a threshold that is meant to be. a deterrent. Yes, because of the tax money that you pay, but tax money has been high for years now.

But it's so that you can't adjust your team. Once you get into the second apron, all the mechanisms that you can to adjust your team, you're taken away. So I would say that the second apron is not a place you want to be if you don't have a championship team or a team that's right there winning the championship. And, you know, we've seen two teams. Yeah, I think there was a parade in New York last, just a few months back. Right. So, look, two years ago, the Celtics were in the second apron. We saw that they, Jason Tatum got hurt. They did not think they were a championship team this the following year. And so they got out of there. Last year, the calves were in the second apron. They got swept in the conference finals. I don't think they were a championship team. I don't think they

felt they were a championship team. They went to great strides this off season to get out of the second apron. They really hollowed out a lot of their depth and depending on a lot of young guys. The Knicks are a championship team. And so Jim Dolan making the edict for the first time in 53 years. Right. In a vacuum saying the second apron is not a place you want to be. That is a true statement. But Jim Dolan has a championship team. And so basically here's the thing. If Jim Dolan sticks to the mantra, we will not go in the second apron. And for three years in a row now, the Knicks like forget about the words actions right the nicks have gone right to the line and not crossed it they have stuck with that that edict and jim you know the the champagne wasn't even dry uh in san antonio when jim dolan came out and gave an interview after the season saying we're not going in that second apron okay yeah there's still confetti floating in the air and he wasn't it like he wanted to make that state wasn't it before the parade it was before the parade it was before the parade it was before the I'm not sure of the exact time, but it was, and it was like he wanted that on the record out there.

He wanted to build the concrete wall, the second apron. And we knew that meant that Mitchell Robinson was probably not going to be there and he wasn't. So let me tell you why that's important because that feels like old information. Here's why this is important. Carl Towns has a, I don't like the word weapon. Could I say something different like a chip, a piece of leverage? A tool. Good job. What a what a word smith. You're a tool. Thank you. The $61 million player option that he has for the next season.

And I, you know, our guy Shump, when we start talking about like contracts like two years down the line, he don't want to talk about it. He wants to talk about how Carl Town is going to play tonight. How does he look? And I respect that. The Knicks have the five guys. Shump loves the game. And we do too. Shump, but that's what Shump wants to focus on what's going on on. the floor. Right. So in a way, like I almost want to say to the Knicks fans, section this off. Yeah. Because your team is awesome and has every right to believe that if they're healthy, they can win it again. And I actually believe that Kat will be able to section it off in terms of this season. I don't think this is going to be this black cloud this season. I agree with you. So let me just say this. So if for the Knicks to avoid the second apron and hold this team together, Kat can't make sense. $61 million next year. I mean, I suppose that there are ways, but it's not happening. The Knicks, it's not just the Nix want to have Carl Towns in a contract that makes less money. You know, I want, you know, my mortgage payment to go down. Like, you know, we can go on and up by this.

Right. The Nicks need Carl Towns to take a new contract that lowers that $61 million number. And he can just say, I'll pick it up. Yeah. And you deal with it. And so that is their incentive to get together. So they need Carl to take a pay cut from that $61 million number. And so the Knicks need to have an offer over multiple years, probably three or four years and a plan. Because this is the one thing. So CAA, who represents Carl Towns and the Knicks, as everybody knows, are completely like prayer hands together. Leon Rose started the basketball division of CAA.

And guess who one of his employees was, West Wesley, who was still one of employees. Carl Town, Leon Rose Carl Town's agent, Jalen Brunson, all the way down the line, okay. I do not doubt that if CAA and the Knicks get in the room, you know, Leon's son, Sam is one of OGA and Inobie's agents, okay? And Brunson's. And Brunson's agents. Okay. I do not doubt that if they get into a room that CAA and Carl Towns can come to an agreement that protects the NICS and gives them flexibility to keep this guys together and make sure that Carl is given a respectful contract. I believe that that will happen.

And I would still, I would go so far as to say I would bet, I don't want to use the word bet. I would believe that that will happen. What I can't say is how Jim Dolan will operate because I'm not sure that they can get Carl's counsel to take a pay cut, keep their core together, and stay out of the second apron. I don't know if all three of those things can happen. And that's exactly it. Like the relationships you just laid out between the front office of the NICS, you know, all the former CAA people there, you know, Carl Anthony Towns, his, you know, CAA rep. All those things are 100% true, but Leon Rose doesn't determine the budget. He can't offer more than he's authorized to offer.

Of course, yeah. I don't think, and I don't think that, like, I'm not saying that Leon has an issue with Dolan. Dolan has stated the mission, and if you look at the actions of the Nix front office, they are, I don't, I think the NICS drafted and, you know, developed Mitchell Robinson. Like, that's a, that's an organizational win. You think they wanted to see him leave for nothing to their rival? hell no, they didn't want to see that happen. But the simple fact of the matter is, if James Dolan wants to sit here and say, like, pretend like the second apron is this, like, if you step into the second apron, it's lava and you're going to sink and, you know, drown and burning, flaming hot lava. And so you just, oh, my gosh, we just can't do it.

Then this championship team, their first championship team in a couple of generations, is not going to stick together. It's going to break up. If he's okay with that, you know, a guy who has been reviled in New York for years and finally, hey, I told you I'd build a championship team and he did it. And then if he wants to just throw all that goodwill out the window,

then make that second will, second April, the lava pit. You know, I don't want to put words in Adam Silver's mouth, but the way Adam Silver has routinely talked about how much the league's owners love the way the second apron is operating, this is it. They don't want a team to win two out of three or three out of four years. They want teams to be broken up by the aprons. Well, it gives owners an excuse not to have to pay massive luxury tax bills, too, if we're just being blatantly honest. Damn right. Damn right. And listen, it's not just Kat. Jatham Brunson, who famously,

you know, with the timing of his deal, gave the Nix a massive discreet. Do you think he's going to give some massive discount on his next deal? I sure hope not. After becoming the King in New York, after delivering a 45-point finals closeout, after having one of the best playoff runs and certainly that franchise is history, if not recent NBA memory? Come on now. Like, you know, Josh Hart is up for an extension soon.

Right. Well, Josh Hart's up in extension now. And I don't, I think it's going to be hard to do with Josh Hart extension until you know what Carl's number might be. So I don't know if one can happen without the other. I mean, obviously, there's no law against it. It can't. And I'll say something else.

So Jalen Brunson's making $37 million this year. After this season, he's got one more guaranteed year left on this discount extension. But he is eligible to sign an extension himself after this year, for that would kick in in 28, 29. And look, if the, if the Knicks are eight, like, look, maybe Carl Towns just opts into this contract. and the Knicks have this core for 27, 28 as well. And maybe you say, listen, in the 2020s, in the second apron era, if you have the same core together for three years, that's an oddity. Maybe that's just the way it goes.

And to be a one-year second-apron team, like, if you can't do it for a year, in that market with a championship team, come on now. And from what I understand, and I want to talk about the overall value of the contract, because Carl Towns is eligible to sign a four-year, $276 million extension. That's his max that he's eligible to get. He obviously has, he and his side have a position on what he wants to sign for. The Knicks have a position in which they have offered. So that's the parameters. From what I understand, they are tens of millions apart.

they're they're not close so honestly i believe that they could be eight figures apart on an annual basis i believe that's you know and i maybe it's changed in the sense we've been starting this podcast maybe the offers have changed but but and again cat is not pounding the table and saying you gotta max me he's willing to have discussions oh yeah he's he's he's he's willing to take less than the 275, I believe. The question, you know, the question is, what are the Knicks willing to do? All right, so that's one thing of note.

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Let's take the Cadillac. Find out more at Cadillac canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. But as long as we're talking about aprons, Sam Presti is right now, as we're doing this, giving his annual preseason address. And just a way our days are going today, we can't wait for the whole thing to finish. But one of the most important things was asked of him, was already asked. And I want to talk about it, McMahon. So first off, I want to take you back to July. In July, you remember, the Thunder made three separate deals to offload rotation players from last year. They traded Aaron Wiggins to the Hawks. They traded

traded Isaiah Joe to the Pistons. And then in a separate deal, they traded Lou Dwar to the Hawks. Yeah, and not just rotation players from last year, but rotation players from their championship team. Correct. And, you know, the reason that is the case is because this is the year that Chet Holmgren, Jalen Williams contracts, max contracts come onto their books.

They're a lot more expensive team. And then they're going to face another big bump next year when Shade Gildes of Alexander's Super Max extension. kicks in. Plus, they've got a lot of young talent that they're trying to make room for both in terms of minutes and down the road money. Right. And many teams are very strategic planners. 15 years ago, this kind of, you know, their strategic planning was an outlier. But the Thunder, in terms of planning, specifically in terms of financial planning, I promise you, Sam Presti in his front office, when I say down to the dime, I'm probably not being facetious.

They probably have projections for four, five, six years into the future down to the dime about what they are expecting to be able to spend. You might offend them. It might be down to the penny. You know what? You might be right. They're extremely competent. In their salary dumps, they got, I believe it was a total of seven second round picks in return.

Yes. the Thunder obviously are a very high functioning organization, which is why they won the championship two years ago and had a championship level team last year that didn't work out, Jalen Williams injury, etc. So anyway, Sam Presti typically only talks publicly twice a year, okay? Once it's at the beginning of the season, once it's at the end when he gives these speeches. They are fascinating, they are long, and they are very important. And just like their financial planning, they are very, very thoughtful. out, okay? Oh, yes. And often they have incredible gems. We have to finish our breakfast being a classic example of it. So, but Sam in the wake of making these trades, it's very important, Sam also is, it's very important for Sam to communicate to the Oklahoma City fans. Obviously, he operates a worldwide, a team that is consumed worldwide and on a national level, but throughout his tenure as team, I care. They call him president or vice president or something. Whatever. He runs the organization.

He has always been very cautious to talk directly to the Oklahoma City fans. And his interviews also go national. But Sam talks to the fans. So he gave an interview to the Oklahoma and Justin Martinez, their beatwriter, in July. And he said the following. And I'm pretty sure I brought this up at the time. But maybe I didn't. quote, this was a financial decision. The impression that I have been given is that the savings generated this summer and from being out of the luxury tax for the last several years will be reallocated to future teams. Then he said, and as I understand it, the decisions this summer have positioned us financially to maintain a team of this caliber. Case and Wallace Extension. A.J. Mitchell's coming up. Okay.

Jared McCain. Those statements were a departure. Like I said, I can't underscore enough how cautious and studied Sam Presti is. He does not speak flippantly, okay? The impression I have been given. He's talking about his, what he's saying there is the relationship with ownership, okay? As I understand it, okay? that was a little bit of a disturbance in the force.

Nobody blames the thunder for offloading players. They have incredible depth. They have incredible draft picks coming. They had two first round picks in this year. And they saved like $300 some odd million in salary and taxes the sum. That decision to trade those players while painful was smart management. It is not comparing Jim Dolan a minute ago to that is not what we're saying. here. We're not saying that this is a questionable decision. What I'm saying is for the first time I ever, I saw those quotes and he said the impression I had been given, that made me wonder. Just made me wonder, okay? And then fast forward to this morning. Okay. Do you want to take this one? Sure. Again, I'm reading off Justin Martinez's his Twitter account here. This is, he asked Sam Presti about ownership's commitment to maintaining a team of this caliber. In other words, again, paying case and walls, paying A.J. Mitchell, Jeremy.

Okay, and they're going to have some really good young players that are coming up. So Wallace is in extension discussions as we speak. Maybe not as we speak, but they are ongoing. Quote from Sam Presti, what I would say is that certainly our anticipation is that's our expectation. But I have also done this long enough to know that things certainly can change, so I don't want to sit here and be definitive about that. I think the thing we have to have.

to balance is just honor in the moment and the rare unique opportunity we have with this team. I can't underscore enough that what Sam Presti only speaks in definitive terms. Can I translate this? Yes. I got a three-word translation. Wait, come on. Come on. It's one word, right?

Yeah, it's a contraction. There you go. Come on, Clay Bennett. That's my translation. Yeah. Pay, pay as this new arena is opening up. What is that 28, I think? Anyways, as the new arena that's being built across the street from the arena now is about to open up and only cost the franchise $50 million.

Pay as we're bringing you these playoff gates. Pay as we're about to have hopefully all this expansion money pour in. What did you say you thought that might be, $500, $600 million per existing team? talked to one owner who said that, you know, obviously they haven't expanded, the money's not in, etc., etc., etc., but I talked to an owner who said that they believe that they're looking at a windfall of between 500 and 600 million. The second apron is not where you want to be unless you're a bona fide championship contender. Is there any question that this team that won a championship a couple years ago when it won 68 games

that might have repeated, if not for some injuries when they won 64 games, that has, still a two-time MVP in his prime, you know, other star players ascending towards their prime, you know, a bunch of other young talent on the roster, is there any question that this is a bona fide championship contender? Absolutely not. Well, look, this would be, again, what Adam Silver, I do not want to put words into Adam Silver's mouth, but he might say this is the second apron operating as intended that these teams that won championships have to consider whether they can continue spending to keep their teams together and therefore potentially would lose our players which would be redistributed to make the balance of power. This Adam Silver might say

is why we're able to get potentially $8, $9 billion for Seattle and Las Vegas because those owners know that not only is there a great media rights deal for the next decade, but that they know that they'll be able to use their their assets that they're buying to acquire potential star players. Like this is this, in theory, this is a healthy,

this is the NBA operating healthfully, you know, but okay, so I'm just, it's just our responsibility as reporters to keep an eye on this stuff. We're not trying to sound an alarm. It's just our responsibility as reporters.

Now, not because these are potential leagues, shifting decisions. And it might not be about extending young guys. It might be about do we have to trade Chet or J-dub? Like these are decisions that are huge dominoes for the league. Yes. So now I want to say something else.

Barry Trammell, who is a longtime columnist in Oklahoma City. He currently works for the Tulsa World before that work for the Oklahoman. Next question. Yes. always, not always the Thunder's favorite players, or the Thunder's players favorite guy. But you've been in that role. So whatever, that happens.

He's an Oklahoma institution and a legend. Yes. In the wake of the Thunder's championship in 25, he wrote a piece that said that he believed that the Thunder ownership would quite likely seek to sell when, you know, leading up to, the new arena opening, which is in 2028. And I'm fairly certain he wrote a follow-up column to that this summer, where he said that

seeing the rising valuations, you know, seeing the Timberwolves sell for over $4 billion, the Trailblazers, two teams of comparable, although both markets are, I think Oklahoma City is the smallest market. Portland has to be comparable, but Memphis, New Orleans. But Oklahoma City, I think, it's not in the bottom three. put it that way. But anyway, we're seeing small market teams sell for over $4 billion. He, you know, Barry Trammell, who, you know, he's, he knows of what he speaks. He backed that up saying that he believes that those increasing, increasing amounts will lead

the Thunder's ownership led by Clay Bennett to sell. So look, I don't, I don't want to go on and on because just like with the Knicks, the Thunder team that they're going to put on the court in the 2026-27 season is loaded, despite having to offer. flowed three players. They are still one of the deepest teams in the league. We just rolled out our NBA rank series, and I think they've got seven in the top 100. Talk about a pathway to winning a championship, having seven to top 100 players. They've all got arrows up. I mean, Shea's at two, I think. I think she may have them three on the list, which is a back-to-back MVP. You know, Shea is one to three depending on which flavor you like, right? The rest of these guys,

you can argue, they've all got arrows up. Right. I mean, look. Caruso, Caruso, aside from Caruso. And they've got a surplus of picks. I have a follow-up quote from Sam Presti. Okay. As you know, the Thunder are loaded with talent. They have more talent than they can play.

They have enough talent where Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins kind of fell out of the rotation in the playoffs last year despite injuries. They have enough talent that they, anyway. So right now, they only have 14 guaranteed contracts on their team. And Sam Presti was asked, what about that 15th roster spot? You know, because they have all kinds of picks that they can trade and trade exceptions, like they can add to the team. And Sam said, we are always going to be open-minded when looking at it.

We'll try to be as creative as much as we can. There's also a financial component to it and how much that will cost us. Yeah, I mean, they are counting every penny. And he's counting every penny to try to make the case to be more expensive down the road, try to make a sick case. There's a method to all of this. I want to be crystal clear. There is no criticism coming whatsoever. There is only just shining a light on what is happening.

You know what I say about owners all the time. If you can't afford it, cash in. And like Clay Bennett has been a great owner for the Oklahoma City Thunder. I would argue considering the way he's been hands off and let Sam Presti, look, Sam Presti built teams that failed, right? Like they built up teams and failed. Didn't get over the top, yeah. And did he run Sam Presti out of there? No, and he is, he's done exactly what you want your owner to do, which is hire great people and let them do their job.

He hired Sam Presti and he's let Sam Presti do his job. And for the most part, Sam has been a massive success, but there had, like, listen, the James Hardin trade was a, you know, he'll tell you, like he messed that one up. You know, the first time they went way into luxury tax was that Carmelow, Russ, Paul George team that was, you know, a little bit messy. But, you know, the other thing we're not, we haven't touched on here. It's purely speculative. But it's like, pay what it takes to at least keep a reasonable version of this team together long term. Or could Sam Presti finally for the first time? No, no.

I'm stopping you right there. You can stop me. I'll, I'll say it. Again, these are potentially massive dominoes that would affect the entire league. all say. Right. Well, look, we, we, thanks for trying to cut the aggregation machine off. Yeah, I'm, you better consider what you want to leave that in there. I'm listening to say it then. So we saw last week when I talked, maybe it was even this week, when I talked about how much the fund, how much every NBA team gets from the NBA's, um, um, um, payout, you know,

it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 175, you know, with the documents that the Wall Street Journal acquired about the Lakers, every team is looking at getting about $175 million, you know, in payout. So that's like, you know, a huge thing. Well, the Thunder's local TV deal is not good. They don't, they're not getting $180 million. Like a lot of teams, the regional sports networks,

crumbling have hit them in the pocket. The money that they're getting from the shared revenue leave before they sell a ticket, before they sell a suite, is $175 million. Okay? Their payroll this year is about $215 million, I believe.

And then they're in the luxury tax, and I believe right about now they're paying $20 million. So their outlay on salary and luxury tax is $230-ish-ish million, okay? Maybe a little higher. $2.35, let's just call it $240 million. So think of that delta. Okay? So the Lakers have $180 million in local revenue.

They're way in the black. And now they've got to share some of that. We talked about it. But think of that delta. Like, you know, okay, they're going to sell tickets and they're going to hopefully have a long playoff run. They're not bringing in $250 million in tickets. like the Lakers are. God knows what they're bringing in. They pack the arena every single game and they've got one of the best home court advantages.

But in terms of home court advantage, like financially, one major reason for the new arena is because they don't have a bunch of the luxury suites that generate a lot of revenue. You know, their ticket prices by NBA standards are not near the top list. They're not near the Knicks and Lakers.

And in Oklahoma City, which I looked it up, it's the number 47 markets. So only Memphis and New Orleans are smaller. Those really small markets by MBA standards, there's sponsorship challenges. Right. And one of the things about the thunder is that a lot of their sponsors, their corporate sponsors, are executives from their ownership group. They're like banks and oil and oil. gas companies that are Clay Bennett's partners.

So in some ways, it's taken money out of the left pocket and put it into the right pocket. So what I'm trying to say this, I'm not, you know, it's not the Clay Bennett's being cheap. Like they operate in this league where they're trying to beat the Los Angeles Lakers. The New York Knicks revenue, and it's with the Rangers, but, you know, the Thunder's revenue is probably higher than the Rangers. Well, I shouldn't say that. Let me take that back. And forget the financial competition. They're operating in a league where they're trying to compete with the San Antonio Spurs

who are going to have Victor Wyniama, Dylan Harper, and Steph Castle potentially for the next decade plus. Yes, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. The bar is high on the floor. And that's a team that just knocked them out. That $240 million is before you pay a coach, a player, or, you know, the front

office, your expenses for the team. You know, they are contributing some money to the arena. It's a pittance compared to other places. But this is why Oklahoma City gave them the arena, basically, is because, you know, they're not like everybody else. So, look, I don't want to defend the situation anymore. I just want to explain that the Thunder, who are the deepest team in the league, are now one of the most, more, the more expensive.

teams in the league and it is causing some stress and Sam Presti who is you know like let's put it this way if he were a CEO and this was a quarterly earnings report okay I think the stock would dip a little bit based on these comments I think that you know if you and I were financial analysts who worked for like you know J.P. Morgan Chase or whomever we would report back to our people like there are indications that spending might not continue and that that might cause the stock to dip. By the way, the stock would have been on a rocket ship for the last three years. You'd still be, you know what I'm saying? Like, no question. I'm trying to avoid the ire of the Thunder fans. It's like if Apple stock dipped a little bit after a no next goal.

Yes. I can't remember the new Apple CEO, but if he came out and said, you know, the iPhone sales were, you know, a little softer than expected. They still made like tens of billions, but the stock might go down a percentage point or two. So anyway. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Before we go, I do think we should mention McMahon that Kauai Leonard signed a two-year,

$15 million extension. All figures U.S. And above the board. As far as we know, Listen, I get why the Raptors did this. I certainly get why they did the trade. I get why they did the extension. I don't want to hear it's a discount.

I don't want to hear it's, oh, it's $11 million less the max. This is a humongous extension for a player with major durability issues who's in his mid-30s. It's $25 million more than Kevin Durant got. It's a big, it's not a long-term risk, but it's a big, big risk for the Raptors. But, you know, I understand it because he does raise their ceiling to where, like, hey, they've got a chance to compete for a championship. But I don't love the extension for them. I know. You've said this.

And here's what I'm saying. I agree. I agree that it's a risk. That's not a debate. Anybody could say it's a risk. Let me ask you this. If this was a stock and the Raptors got this deal done, would the stock go up or down? I think the stock would go up.

On the extension? Yeah. The trade, the stock goes up, I think the extension, it's a minor little deal. Okay, well, you and I would be on the difference here. Here's the thing. Of course it's possible he could get injured. Guess what? Brandon Ingram is an injury risk.

But here's a deal. Here's a deal. When they made the trade, did you wonder if there was going to be an extension? No, you just want to know what the money was going to be. And the money is too high. Let me ask you this. He's owed now $165 million over the next three years. the three years he's under contract to the Raptors.

Does he play 165 games? Is he a million dollar per game player? Hey man, this is a, this is a brilliant conceit. This is a brilliant conceit. Here's what I'd say. I don't really care how many regular season games he plays. How many playoff games is he play? Well, how many playoff games has he been healthy for for the Clippers?

And that's why, you know. My position crumbles. My position crumbles. I agree. Brandon Ingram didn't finish the playoffs last year. The Raptor's lost in seven of Brandon Ingram one in there. And again, trading Brandon Ingram, Grady Dick and a couple of picks. A couple of first rounders plus the thing that was like, whatever.

The trade, you got to take that swing. Absolutely positively. Send it in. You know, make sure he's not suspended. 700 grand slap on the wrist. Send it in. I did tell you guys, I hope his wrist is recovered from that little slap. It was a good line.

But McMahon Like to remind us of his good lines But sometimes they're good You get on they're good Listen I take victory laps You know

I don't like the extension You know Now if he leads them To the promise land again It'll be worth every penny And times a million But I think it's too much money And I don't think it

I don't think it gives them A lot of wiggle room To make further upgrades And I And like they still have a pretty significant hole in the roster at center, I think. The reason the Clippers broke all these rules and did all this is because Kauai is a generational talent. Unfortunately, for the Clippers, they got caught, and he wasn't a generational talent for like the first five and a half years.

But the last year and a half, he's been awesome. I remember that playoff run they had. Oh, they didn't have one in his last. I mean, listen, I am not in good position here on this argument. I agree that you absolutely could be right. I'm closing my eyes and thinking the way Kauai Leonard was playing at the end of last season and the way Scotty Barnes was playing at the end of last season. The answer there is they didn't have Scotty Barnes.

And Scotty Barnes is a stud and they've got the core of the team. And the other thing is the Raptors have a bunch of giant contracts anyway. So, like, they had to do something to improve their team. And Bobby Webster and his group figured out how to do it. So, all right, we've got to go to a meeting. We do. Thank you so much to Jackson, Mark, Tucker, and Miles. Thank you for you, for you, everybody, for listening and watching it.

By the way, ticket sales in Melbourne, Melbourne, are going extremely well. Appreciate the Aussies. Yeah, the Aussies are going great. If you want to check us out, courtside, Melbourne.com, you can go to Courtside, Melbourne's socials and see it there. I mean, I don't want to say like there's a limit. I mean, I guess we could just add more seats, but I do think they're kind of running out of room. So that's really great. And we'll have updates on the Philippines and Macau by early next week.

So look forward to seeing you overseas. Adios mates and adios amegos.