Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - A Proper Ending For Warriors? Wemby Grew? & Flagg Playing PG

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Anthony Slater and new member of the Hoop family Vincent Goodwill to talk the latest on the Steve Kerr’s future with the Warriors, how to end a dynasty and some possible locations for a theoretical Giannis trade. Then, the guys discuss Cooper Flagg playing point guard in Dallas, Victor Wembanyama's growth spurt and the amount of size across the league. Plus, some bonus storytime’s with Windy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome the Hooke collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon out here on the West Coast, later in the afternoon, out east, which is where we're very happy for the first time to welcome in our new teammate, Vincent Vinnie Goodwell, joining us from Detroit.

What's up, guys? What's going on, Wendy? You've got that Vincent Goodwill. You've got your government name on your byline, but we all know you as Vinnie. I don't know how you want to present yourself to the ESPN world. I haven't figured that out yet because Vincent is my daddy's name and I've never been Vincent. So that's kind of... You say you've never been Vincent. Your byline says Vincent. So I don't know what you're talking about.

But nobody calls me that. Like my mother doesn't... Nobody calls me Vincent, but my dad is Vincent. So Vince is the middle ground that if I meet you now, I might tell you my name is Vince. But you know me as Vinny because you knew me in my 20s. That's right. We won't say how old you are now. Because you could pass for late 20s, I feel like.

Now, the next guy we got joining us from Portland, Oregon, where he's with the Warriors. His name is Anthony, but nobody calls him Anthony except for his wife. I recently had breakfast with him and his wife, and she kept saying Anthony, and it was just like, I was like, who are you talking about? We all call him Slater. Slater, but high school friends will actually call me Tony, but I'm surprised I just admitted that publicly. Really? You're not a Tony. No, he is a Tony. No, he is a Tony. like his hair.

That hair is the hair of a Tony. Also get ant sometimes. Just the shortened aunt or, you know, my wife will send me like an emoji of the, you know, the aunt emoji. He's more of an aunt than he is a Tony. Slater,

I do feel like everything professionally is trending towards just, like even if I go on air or something, it's like Slater. It's just the way. Yeah, we should just put Slater one name. Here's a weird thing about Slater, Vincent, Vince, Vince, is that he's from California, but he went to Oklahoma State,

and now he talks with a drawl. I was trying to figure I should we call you A.C. Slater, like, you know, from saved by the bell? That's what Barry Tram. You mentioned, you know, everything's coming full circle here. Barry Trammell, when I worked out in Oklahoma, would call me A.C. Slater,

because he's like the legend of nicknames out there. There's something about Stillwater, because he went to, Slater went to Oklahoma State. And this golfer, you know, it's my world. Victor Hovland, who is from, I think he's from Finland, from Finland or Norway. Anyways, from one of the Nordic countries.

He went to Oki State. He loves Stillwater. I think he still lives there. And he speaks in a drawl. He speaks like he's from Stillwater. You want to hear an opposite story. I'll try to make it quick. But when I was at Oklahoma State, there was a walk-on basketball player named Mason Cox.

He was probably 6'10. He was from Texas. went to Oklahoma. When he was there at school, he talked like somebody from that area. He then went and became a superstar Australian football league player, like the guy that'd kick it up to and he'd go jump and make catches. You should go watch the highlights. I think he was like maybe even like MVP of the league. I then see him eight years later at a warrior's practice because he's one of like the superstar Australian football players visiting and he has a full Australian accent. Crazy. Crazy. I don't have to say. Vince, you sound like you're from the Midwest.

Thank God. All right. So guys, welcome to the Hoop Collective. I hope to have you on a lot this season. The collective wisdom of my two new teammates here is extensive. And Slater, I want to start with, I know you got a story coming out later this week about Steve Kerr. Yeah. On, well, actually, was it Media Day because of the whole Kaminga thing, I don't know what excuse the Warriors gave, why Steve Kerr and Mike Dunleave didn't talk,

but they didn't talk till later in the week. So I guess it was more training camp. I mean, the Mike Dunleavy not talking was clearly not, they wouldn't even hide it. It was related to the ongoing Jonathan Kamiga negotiations. The Steve won their excuse was, well, typically Steve doesn't talk on Media Day. He's going to talk, you know,

basically after the first practice. And I will say he did talk technically before they agreed with Kamenga because they hadn't agreed with him by the end of the first practice. By the way, I missed the story of why Jonathan Kaminga changed his numbers. to number one. Yeah, it was his high school number. It wasn't available when he got to the Warriors. And he actually said he almost changed.

I think it was like 57. He was, because he, one of his good, he doesn't want to be double zero anymore. But he was going to wear like 55 or 57 because his really good friend, IG, he's like his photographer,

he's at every game, wore it when he, I think he played like high school football. And it was going to be kind of be an inside joke. But then they decided IG was the one that told him, he was like, please don't go out on the court wearing number 57. So he went to number one.

Who was number one when he got there? Damien Lee, I believe, had it. I think I believe, if I remember correctly. All right. Well, anyway, John's a family affair. You can't take the brother-in-law's number. That's right. Daniel Lee is Steph Curry's brother-in.

He wanted, 42 was like, you know, Nate Thurman, and there were some others. So he had to go to something completely different. What number is he? I'm not good on numbers. Like all these. I know I'm not either. I'm like on here. I think you might have gone 15. I know Steph Curry wears 30. Yeah. I know Draymont wears 23. After that, I can't help you. Well, Seth Curry wears 31 and there was the joke, you know, coming in if Seth would try to buy 30 from Steph. He's like, I don't think the NBA would like that if, you know, we made Steph Curry switch to 31. Real talk? Actually, they would. Actually, they would. Everybody got to buy New Jersey.

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. Like, real talk, that would be, so I remember when LeBron changed his number when he was in Cleveland, he wanted to change his number to number six. And he had to file the paperwork by a certain date because the NBA, he wanted to do it the year before. And the NBA was like, hey, man, we already got the jerseys made. Like, you can't change your number this year. You got to wait until next year. And then you got to, like, do it by, like, February 1st. So I remember. Like LeBron was trying to decide what he changed his number. And even though I don't care about numbers, I was like following this story. And I remember like stalking him down, like the night of the deadline and saying, hey man, did you file the paperwork to change your number, number six? And he was like, yes, I did.

You're going to see LeBron number six next season. He said that right as he walked out the door. Next season was in Miami. But he was wearing number six. He was wearing number six. He never got to wear number six for the cabs. Don't you remember that, Wendy? Was that the game?

Tell me if I'm right, because I'm like going in the crates. Was that the game where Dwayne Wade dunked on Anderson Varajal? And there was something with Julius Irving that was like a T&T game. And LeBron, after the game was like, nobody should wear number six because, nobody, you know, I'm going to wear it's number six because of Dr. J or something like that. No, you have it the opposite. Okay. It was in Miami.

He was, it was in Miami. Just before Jordan bought the, well, I don't know if we have the same memory here. Okay. You could be right. He wore number six, I thought, because of Bill Russell. But here was the thing. When LeBron came, we've gone way off the beat here, but okay, it's preseason still. LeBron went to play for Team USA his rookie year, or after his rookie year, okay?

That was that disastrous 2014 went to Greece. And of course, you know what number he wore for Team USA. He wore number nine because that's what number the Jordan wore. And then it was a freaking disaster. He didn't play that much. He quarreled with Larry Brown. It was a terrible experience. If you watched the Dream Team video, the whatever, not the Dream Team movie,

but the movie. Redeemed Team. Yeah, the Redeemed Team. He talked about it in there, how miserable he was in 2004. So when he came back for Team USA in 2006, he switched to number six. He's like, I'm not, I'm not, that was so bad, I'm going to switch it over. And actually, in 2008, and this was in the Redeemed Team documentary,

Wade, Dwayne Wade took number nine and out of respect as an homage to Jordan shaved his head when he showed up, because Wade didn't play in 2006 because he was hurt. And in 2000, I mean, it was 2007. Anyway, Wade showed up at the, in 2008. wearing number nine. And LeBron switch to number six. And that's where he started wearing six. Now, it may have been for Dr. Jay.

You may be right there, Vinny. I can't remember that. It's something. No, you might be right. It may not be Dr. Jay. It may be Bill Russell. It was something. Were you at that game of Miami?

So here's the thing. Before Jordan bought the Hornets, he came to a Cavs Heat game. And if you remember, Pat Riley retired number 23 with the heat. heat. No heat player ever wore 23, including LeBron, because he retired it for Jordan. If you go to the heats arena, the Kasea Center, and look up in the rafters, Dan Marino's jersey's retired. I don't know why. And I know why, but it's weird that a basketball team

retire his jersey and Jordan's number are up there. He retired number 23 for the heat. And whether it was Jordan in the stands or whatever, LeBron went on to Jagger's, and he said, and after that game that nobody should wear number 23 ever again. And the next year, he changed the number. That was part of that year. He changed his number, signed the paperwork. The next year came to Miami War No. 6.

But when he went back to Cleveland War number 23. Then he tried to give 23 to Anthony Davis, and I don't know, somebody said the league wouldn't let him, or 80 didn't want it. I don't know. That's our numerology report. I hope you enjoyed it. Anyway, Steve Kerr didn't talk at the first day,

a couple of days of media, the first immediate day. and then the first day of practice later, he basically announced he intends to coach this season without a contract. Without a contract extension. He has a contract. That a contract extension, yes. He has a contract for this year. Did that surprise you?

And what do you make of that as you look at the Warriors going forward here? Yes, I was surprised he was so transparent publicly that he's not even seeking one. Because this happened a few years ago where he was on, you know, you would call it the lame duck season, which he would say, you know, he's more comfortable than your normal coach going into a lame duck season for a variety of reasons. But they were having ongoing negotiations that season and it got done. I think it may be February where he signed an extension. So for him to not only say, hey, I wasn't surprised. He said I'm not going to let it become a storyline.

But the fact that he said, I'm not even going to seek one and we're just going to wait and see until next summer. That raised the eyebrow a little bit, especially because, like we all know. Steph has two more years on his deal. Jimmy Butler has two more years on his deal. Draymond Green has one in one. You know, he has a player option, but basically two more years on his deal. And the presumption was he would want it lined up with that. But the fact that he didn't, I think there's a few reasons for it and we can go over it.

But the one thing I will say is you mentioned, you know, I have a story coming out with Steve later this week. It's about Steve Kerr and Steph Curry's relationship. And within it, he clarified with me he is not, he will not leave the Warriors for another. NBA job. This isn't, he's not leaving it open-ended because, ooh, the Spurs is appealing to him or this or that. It's going to either be, they get to the end of the season and maybe it's like step away from the game or what I think is more likely, and he, as he's kind of hinting, it's like he still thinks he'll very likely be the coach of the Warriors beyond the season. But it just has to go right and it has to feel right after the season. But as of right now, I would definitely predict this is not his last season

with the word. Okay. So Vinnie, this is not last dance energy, I think is what I'm trying to, trying to feel. Well, he went through that and he knows how exhausting that is. Like, Phil Jackson on the last year, Jordan on the last year, Pippin on the last year, Robin. Like, all those guys were free agents. Like these guys, it's not really like that. And I'm not sure there's this. And Slater, you tell me if I'm wrong, I don't sense that there's the same organizational fatigue that even in 2019, the last year of Kevin Durant, like that seemed very fatiguing. This season or even last year, like that energy didn't seem like, man, this is a slough. Can't wait to this is over to get to the next thing.

I don't think they're fresh as daisies, but I think they're all curious. And I think that's why maybe Steve is sort of leaving his options open, the option of coaching the Warriors beyond this year. Yeah. I mean, Steph's called it a two-year window. So I think they're almost talking if you, you know, the last dance would be a maybe a two-year. year walk towards that. And then the other thing, I think it was buried within his, his answer that you're talking about. But he is of the belief that this era for the dignitary should end as

like gracefully as possible. It already kind of hasn't in some way. Well, that's last dance. That's last dance inspired right there. Yes, 100%. And, you know, his history is, you know, kind of mixed into all this. But like Clay Thompson, like the fact that that didn't end the way that they would have hoped like Clay Thompson's final days of Golden State, I think that was informative to him. When Draymond Green a couple years ago was going through the suspensions and, you know, the mess with the league and all that, you know, one of the very influential conversations that I think got Draymond Green back on the right path with Steve Kerr went to his house. And apparently they like, we were even kind of crying, you know, talking about like he wanted Draymond for it to end well for

Draymond with the Warriors and with the NBA and that like there was so much more beyond and that it was important for for them to to like I said go out gracefully and I think part of why he is taking his contract negotiations this way and saying the end needs to go this way is because I think he's trying to set an example that like this like this needs to be you know a you know very polite farewell and he's going I don't think he's number one I don't think he's getting fired number two when he is not coaching the words I think they're going to have a press conference, like announcing it, like, in a celebratory manner, basically. And I think that's him setting the stage for that.

Well, Vinny, you spent a lot of time in Chicago. And I don't know if you were at the game the night when the Warriors were in Chicago a couple years ago. You were probably there Slater when they honored one of the Bulls teams. I don't know which. I was there. I know what you go on. And Jerry Krause's widow.

I mean, she wasn't getting booed. Jerry Krause was getting booed. And I thought it was a relevant thing that, you know, the Warriors were there. I assume ostensibly so Steve could be a part of it. He was a part of you. And it was at halftime, right? And Steve was out there. Nothing ends gracefully in the NBA.

Nothing ends gracefully in the NBA. When you look at modern NBA history, not to hijack you, Wendy. No, please. The Bulls, the closest thing, I think, to a graceful ending was probably Tim Duncan walking off in Oklahoma City when they lost in 2016. What was that game five or game six? And they gave them a standing ovation at the end of that. I was at that game covering the thunder. I'm sure you were.

Yeah. But every great dynasty, the Bulls didn't end gracefully. Like, Jordan is still bitter as hell. Like, magic caught HIV. Birds back went out. You, like, when you think of the dynastic group, even the Kobe Bryant Lakers, that, they went out with Andrew Bynum going, like, putting his forearm in the chest of poor JJ Barreya and Phil Jackson punching Paul Gasol in the locker room. Like, none of this, I think it's honorable.

for Steve Kerr to say this is going to go out gracefully. But when you got Jimmy Butler and then Draymond Green in the locker room, you think they're going to be concerned about going out gracefully? Has he meant them? Well, it's already not ending gracefully because like, you know, where is the Clay relationship right now, Slater? Fraid, but that's more pointed towards the top of the organization, the management, how the contract stuff went than at the Steve Kerr, Steph Curry, Draymond aspect. But you're right. I think, but this is Steve saying his chapter is going to end gracefully. And I think he's very much of the belief that Steph Curry's is going to. And again, that may mean a bad playoff exit in the final year, whatever. Like it's not like he's saying,

we're going to win a title and then walk away. But it's more like Steph will be have a celebrated final chapter with the Warriors. And I think he has really tried to redirect Dremon back to that after there's been various points where it seemed like it was going haywire. And I can remember being at the press conference after the Jordan Pool Punch in the preseason being like, this might be it, you know, for, for Draymond. And now he's part of the, you know, I'm writing this story about Steph and Steve and they're 12 years together. And he tries to rope Draymond in the conversation because it's 12 years with Draymond.

And there's kind of a belief that he's going to kind of ride it out in this chapter. And they've been reinvigorated by the Butler edition, the Al Horford edition. So again, I don't, I'm not predicting a title and it's going to end to like, storybook Disney-like, but I do think there is intention to make it end in a way where they're honoring what they were. Yeah, you know, I'll never forget the story. It was during the 22 finals where they were coming. They were head three, two, and they'd come back for game six. They ended up closing out game six in the night night game. And before the game, Draymond tells the story that they, when they flew out to Boston from San Francisco, that

they happen to sit at the, you know, the NBA Jets have like four seats together with a card table between them. Yeah. Typically it's for card play. There's a couple of them. But yeah, I can't, I couldn't hang in those games. But apparently it just so happened that that particular flight, the four seats were Bob Myers, Draymond, Clay Thompson, and Steph Curry.

And the four of them had been there for the whole run. You know, there had been some guys come and go, you know, Sean Livingstone's off. core member, but he had retired. Kavad Luni has been there for most of it, but I don't, you know, those were the core guys. And Bob was talking to them at the moment, like how rare it is to be able to stay together for this long to go through what they went through, you know, to go through the highs of 2014, 15, the lows of 2019, and then the rebuild where, you know, they, our stuff played five games of one year, and now they're back on top and they win.

And I asked Bob about it later, and he's like, yeah, he's like, me and Dremont. we're talking about seriously. Steph was just politely listening and Clay was sleeping. It's not his storybook as it sounded, but, you know, within like months, Clay and Bob were gone, you know. And so in all honesty, I mean, Steve would be a part of that group too. He wasn't sitting there. Steve is obviously a part of that group. But in the case of Myers, Myers was around even longer. Myers drafted Clay, drafted Draymond. So, but it is, it is rare that it would end that way. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Okay, so to shift to this year's Warriors, when Shams's story came out about, about Janice and the Knicks, my thoughts immediately turned to Golden State because I know that Janice said, I'm here for six or seven months.

It was kind of his way of saying, without saying that he's going to play this season in Milwaukee. I think that's, I think that was the words that, that was the message he was trying to send. And then he'll take a look. the bucks from what I understand, as you can imagine when that story came out, you would do this too. The bucks got some phone calls. You know, hey, I know about the talks with the Knicks. You just didn't have in talks with us or to at least register, hey, listen, if you revisit that, you know, call us. And I heard the Bucks said, hey, appreciate it, but, you know, we got our team.

We're going. So there's nothing there. But let's be honest. Like, if you asked for a, if you had trained. discussions in August, you know, maybe they'll have a great season, but if you had trade discussions in August, you know, let's reevaluate things. That's why Shams keeps talking about 20, 25 games. Like, he's not saying that to create chaos in Milwaukee. I think he's saying that because he think that's a possibility. And so, yeah, the Knicks could do something. But I thought about the

Warriors. And, you know, one of the whole things as we went through the Kaminga, I didn't really go through much of it at all. I just kind of sat back and watched. You lived and died with that Slater. But the one thing that I thought about was, you know, at the end, when the dust settled, they got him to give up the no trade clause that he would have had on a normal one-year contract. And not that they did that just for Janus, but they emerged on the other side of it with the ability to trade him come mid-January. And so while I understand that we're going to talk about the Warriors and how Jimmy Butler looks and, you know, Pajemski had a big game the other night and all this kind of stuff. Am I wrong? No one's told me. It's not like, so I've been told that this is on the

I'll say this. I've talked to warriors people in the aftermath, you know, because you guys know, like the Leave was talking about Shom's story and the revelations of it in the aftermath. And they poured cold water on the idea that there were some like hot, Yonest destination. But I will also say they were kind of pouring cold water on the Jimmy Butler idea around this time last year and then being a fit with Jimmy Butler. And then they went 12 and three out of the gates. I was like, you know, this team's fine. They're playing 11 guys. Yeah, remember that?

It was like the greatest 12 men rotation. De Anthony Mountain had the greatest sixth game run in NBA, S3, the Warriors. But, you know, I think they didn't, as you mentioned, they didn't just get the, the, the coming in a contract because they have some far-off dream that Yonis will definitely come to them. They know, like, they can't really win a bidding war for Yonis if every team in the league went after them. They don't have like the best young asset base, the most draft capital.

Now, their middle tier for two reasons. Number one, they haven't traded away their capital. Last year in the Butler trade, they only gave one first rounder away, and they made sure it was that last draft. It was the 20th pick in this previous draft. So they weren't, you know, entangled with the Steppian rule. They have a top 20 protected 20-30 first out the window for the Chris Paul Jordan Poole swap. But generally they have pretty good draft.

half capital. And if you were, you know, the Bucks, for example, like the Warriors have a pretty appeal, like their future picks are pretty appealing because it's going to be the post-Stef Curry era. Like, those could be very good picks. So I think they could get in the mix. But my vibe from them is there's not some strong belief or plan that like, you know, this is going to happen. Right now, internally, it's about this like Jimmy Butler, Steph Curry, Draymond Green, and Al Horford, know, like aged foursome trying to, you know, make one or two last competitive runs here. If the Janus thing were to materialize, if he would direct it himself there, I think that's an important part of this.

Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah, Vinny, that's the thing. Like, the thing that's unsaid about Janus, I mean, I don't want to trigger the Bucks fans, but the dude listened, watch their summer and then, like, let the Bucks have talks with the Nix. I don't know what you want me to say. But if Janus gets to next summer wants to be traded with one year on his contract, he's going to have control. So if it is the Knicks, you know, there's a chance it's going to be.

That's where it's going to be. But because he's only going to have one year, he's going to be able to control it. Kind of like Durant just controlled his situation. Look, as soon as the season starts, Janus is in control. You don't even have to wait until next summer. I think it would be bad form if the Milwaukee Bucks were to send the greatest player in their franchise history between he and Jabbar, or whatever you want to say. And I think it's Janus, but just because of the lymph of it,

you don't send Janice out to the Kumpo to a place he doesn't want to go. Like, clearly, when they had a quote-unquote exclusive negotiating window, I've only heard of that one time in my life. You know what that happened? When billionaires are talking to billionaires about selling a team, you don't hear about exclusive negotiating windows when you're talking about franchise player going to the New York Knicks or any other team. So there's a genuine.

level of respect and wanting to do right. Janus to the bucks, the bucks with Janus, if we are to handicap, going back to Slater's point, if we're to handicap, the places that Janus would be open to going to, the warriors will be in tier one, whether they have the assets, like you said, the draft capital, and everything else. But if Janus says, get me to place X, y'all figure it out, then they'll figure it out. Like, okay, let me ask you this, Wendy. Let me ask you this, Wendy.

Who's more likely to be itchy after 25 games? Janus or the man with the old man injury in Los Angeles? Yeah, man. That's the thing. But the thing about LeBron is I know he's come in. He handled Media Day really well because he's a total expert when it comes to handle those situations. Rich Paul said what he said on the record about where LeBron was in his career.

and Rich Paul nor LeBron have walked that back, either on or off the record. Now, I don't think it's something that's at the front of the mind. I think that, you know, there's the Lakers, you know, they feel good about this team. You know, Luca, he's going to play his first game tonight. We're doing this Tuesday. He's going to do this to his first game tonight in Phoenix.

But Luca averaged 35 in Eurobasket. He's gotten a nice rest. He's in good shape. They're going to run the whole show around him. If anything, without LeBron playing, it's going to open the door for Austin Reeves. Austin Reeves, when he played last year without LeBron, I think Austin Reeves averaged like 28 and 9

because it opens up the door for him. Like, I think the Lakers could do okay without LeBron in the early going. Over the long haul, I think they're going to need their best player. But LeBron hasn't walked back those comments. Now, I think there's a chance that Luke is going to get off to a great start. and, you know, for all I know, he'll be throwing lobs to, you know, DeAndre Aten. And, you know, Marcus Smart and Vanderbilt, you know, Vanderbilt was out for most of last year. And Gay Vincent was out.

Gay Vincent has looked really good in the preseason. For all I know, Gay Vincent will be very good off the bench. Austin Reeves will thrive, you know, playing, you know, getting the ball in his hands more. Luca will be right back to average in 30. And when the Bronc comes back, maybe the Lakers are, you know, 12 and 4 or something like that or, you know, 10 and 3 and their things are going fine. And that will never be thought of. But, you know, if they're underachieving after 25 games,

and the thing about the Lakers that is important to realize, I think they've got seven or eight guys who are free agents after this season. Now, some of them have options, you know, like, you know, Austin Reeves is not picking up his option. Austin Reeves will be a free agent. But we'll see. Maybe Marcus Mark is Mark picks it up. He's probably not good. I'm sure he and Aiton are planning on not to.

But there's eight free agents on this team. You know, like, and the guys who are under contract, I mean, Vandenlitz under contract, but he's not, I mean, like, they literally could move off of everybody on this roster in a year. And so, like, there's nothing precious on this roster, even LeBron. Yeah, they don't want to go at that way. They want him to go out with, you know, LeBron out, drop the mic or whatever. But yeah, I, you know, I'm just saying LeBron hadn't walked back those comments that Rich made.

And, you know, I'm sure they put some thought into those comments before they were made about what the future is. One of the Vini's points, you know, calling the Warriors in Tier 1 of, like, the Honest Destinations. I think I would say Tier 2 because I think part of the Shams story is there was one team in Tier 1, right? I mean, it seems clear that like the Knicks kind of were the spot. He is and was looking at. But I think we all know there's like a level of flirtatiousness that has happened over the years between Janus and the Warriors, Janice and Steph. And I remember I was at All-Star weekend this last All-Star in San Francisco. The Warriors just opened this big sports bar.

Have you all been to the splash outside Chase Center? No. So it's new. It opened All-Star weekend. Steph had an event there like Gentleman's Cut Whiskey. It's like a three-floor sports bar and he had like the top floor. I didn't make that cut. I got an invitation, but I didn't respond in time.

So they told me I couldn't come. Oh, look at that. He didn't respond in time. It was kind of a who's who in that. Is this a, is it like real sports in Toronto, that kind of level of? Yeah, kind of, you know, there's huge, you know, TVs everywhere. And like I said, three floors. And clearly, Steph, you know, doing his event had, I think, the third floor.

Yeah, that's how real sports, you know how it is, Vinny. Yeah. Real sports in Toronto, there's like multiple levels. There's these enormous screens. But it's kind of built like a club. It's got multiple levels, you know. And you have a different view. And it kind of mirrors society in some ways is what you're saying.

So as we're there, and, you know, again, it's all start weekend. So like everybody's in town. But the staircase is kind of in the middle of the room. And Steph arrives and it's a big deal. And he goes up even like, you know, like I said, he's doing it for his whiskey brand. He's like saying something to the crowd. Draymond comes in and he's up there. and then the only other NBA player that we saw come in and go up to stairs was Janus.

And it was notable at the time and has been noted, you know, I remember in the aftermath of it. But, you know, they have like kind of agency ties together a little bit too. But I've always thought that, you know, the pairing on the court has always made a lot of sense and still would at this moment. But you've almost felt like Janus would have had to force that move like already or a year or two ago for it to really like that. Yonnes wasn't ready. I mean, Yonis, there's been a process for him to get ready. Look, I mean, I've seen these interviews with Doc and, you know, he's like, you know, you look at the lineups they're playing or they're playing shooters with Janus. Like they're like, oh, we're going to play fast and shoot threes. I'm like, cool. Like, that's what Bud, Bud didn't, they didn't really play fast. But they, when Mike Buntholzer was a coach, they were top five and three point attempts every year. And they've slid, way to the bottom 10 or, you know, I think they were 19th or something last year, under doc.

So the idea that they're going to shoot a bunch of threes is not new. Like they're going back to what worked this up for their team. And my view isn't as good as it was four years ago. So, you know, Jan, like, look, actions are he looked at the roster and said, let's have a exclusive negotiating window or whatever he said. But real talk, real talk, whether it's New York or somewhere else, if you're Janus and you're like, okay, I'm going to make a choice of where I'm going to go. spend the back of my prime, the Eastern Conference makes more sense, you know, because that's the thing

about the Warriors. The Warriors can be great this year and finish fifth. Well, not only that, I mean, let's be honest, at the Western Conference, if you're looking, if you're honest and you're looking at the next half decade to like seven years, Houston, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, they got way more draft capital that would appeal to the bucks. So you would think like trades would be easier to make. And also, you would think a much longer runway of contention. It depends on what's most important to Janus. My general thing with NBA players, and I think it more or less played out with Damian Lillard, and I feel like he's the most glaring example more recently. Usually these guys wait a year or two too long before they decide, okay, get me out of here because there's so much tread on

their bodies. And we, I'm not saying this, I hope I'm not breaking news here. Yonis's durability has been an issue for the past few years. Like he hasn't played 82, 82, 82 games. Like, I don't have his stat sheet up. But he's been in the 60s. And with the style of which that he plays, it would behoove him to get to a situation that would lessen like those end-to-end plays

where he has to play hard on both ends of the floor for 35 to 36 minutes a night. He needs to go somewhere if he's going somewhere. I'm not leaving him out of me. I'm not saying that there's a situation that means he doesn't stay, but I'm saying if he were to leave, I would think that he needs to go to a situation that is easier on his body. That's why I'm not sure if it's actually the Eastern Conference. Would you put it as simply as he should go somewhere where his co-star is younger than him and not older than him? I mean, a man Thompson looks mighty good in Houston once. Well, yeah, I mean, the other thing is Yonis is ready to have a conversation about the tax differences between, California and Texas. I'm not saying that would be a driving force, but he will know. He's

attuned to that kind of stuff. We'll keep an eye on it. While we're talking about the West, Cooper Flagg started at Point Guard, sort of for the first time on Monday night. I don't remember who they played. Charlotte? Um, anyway. No, no, they played Charlotte over the weekend. Yeah, they played Charlotte twice already. Anyway, keep talking. I'll let you know. All right. Jackson's always got my back. I just don't give him credit. Like, he was like, they played the jazz. Um, Jackson's like, Tell me, yeah, you know, Victor Hovlin's from Norway, bro, and he's saying Al Horford's number 20. I just don't give him much credit as I should. Cooper Flagg started a point guard in this game.

And they may start DeAngelo Russell just because, for various reasons. But Cooper Flagg, this is the way that they want to play and this way they're going to play. They're going to play this gigantic lineup at times where, you know, you have AD at the four, basically, with Lively or Gafford. And then you're going to have, you know, depending on who they want to play at the wings, but they're going to have size. And, you know, I'm watching Cooper Flag. He is so skilled. It's crazy. And what I was on NBA today today with Perk.

And Perk and I were watching the highlights. And Perk was talking about he's like, man, he is much better with the ball than LeBron was as a rookie. Now, now, first off, I'll just say Cooper Flag did get a year of college, although they're about the same age because Hooper Flagg's still 18. LeBron turned 19, midway through his first season. But that said, and LeBron recently talked about this. I think he was talking with Steve Nash on his podcast. He was talking about how he was totally unprepared to play a point guard as a rookie because he hadn't played point guard in high school, you know,

that they had skilled point guards at the high school level. And he, of course, handled the ball a lot. And he is, of course, right. They decided LeBron was going to be the point guard. Back then, they played an eight-game preseason. and the Cavs played like six preseason games and realized. His first game was in Detroit. I remember that.

I was in college, Wendy. Not to date myself. Did you go to that game? Absolutely. No, I was broke. I was in college. I just told you.

You know what they did? They played a prank on on LeBron that night. So, by the way, you know, LeBron's first three, four months, he didn't get treated great by his teammates.

Wait, you mean Ricky Davis, the guy who said, I just thought he was here to help me score? You mean that guy didn't, treat him well? Yeah. I've talked about this before. Like Darius Miles was cool with him, but, you know, there was only so much. So they, they hazed them a little bit. And one of the things that they did that night in Detroit was they were, they were getting ready to come out.

And you remember at the palace, they had those narrow little tunnels in the corners. It was really small compared to what your average NBA vomitory, as they call them are. And they said, hey, Rook, we want you to have the honor of leading us out on the court. And so he's like, all right, you know. And so like they, you know, they break and they go on the court. And LeBrongo's running out on the court. Nobody went with him. So he gets out there with the ball and he goes to lay up and turn around.

The court is empty. They're all in the back laughing at him. That's what happened on that night in Detroit. But they played like six preseason games and realized that their point card situation was a mess. And so they basically put LeBron in as point card for like game seven and eight of the preseason. Like, okay, Rook, go ahead. And he led the league in turnovers the first two months. Yeah, he had moments.

Like he sniffed triple doubles. But he was, they were awful and he was terrible. So when Perk says that, like he's right. Cooper Flagg doesn't have the offensive. He's probably a better shooter than LeBron was. But he doesn't have the offensive game LeBron did. But in terms of like being a six, eight, six, nine guy who can distribute and play.

Perk is right that Cooper Flag is much more, like, Perk says that he reminds. LeBron seemed to make like flashier passes and have more of like an innate feel for like claymaking. Yes, for sure. No, I mean, LeBron was dynamic, obviously. But there was a lot of possessions that didn't go well.

I mean, that's a different NBA too, Wendy, where you could really buy. You could really body hand check in LeBron's. LeBron's body was advanced for an 18-year-old, but not advanced for an 8- or 9-year pro. Like the name that I heard during Summer League, and I was looking at people like, y'all on crack. But some of the math people were like, he's 6'8, he's athletic, he handles the ball, he makes the right pass. Who do you think of? He was like, who do you think of?

And I'm like, if you're telling me the profile of that player, I'm saying Grant Hill. And he said exactly. Grant, he's going to be our point guard. They made this decision very, very early in Summer League that he was going to be their point guard. And they felt like they would have enough sort of shot creation offense that you won't have to sort of rely on him all the time. But you just throw him out there because he's so skilled. But what's different than the LeBron situation and what needs to be. remembered here is he can be the point guard for now, but Kyrie Irving just signed an extension.

Like, Kyrie Irving is part of this team's... But it's Kyrie Irving a real point guard. Like, in a point guard in the way that we think of, does he play the position? High usage, like, I know what you're saying, but I don't think when Kyrie Irving comes back, it's going to be like, oh, he's the two Cooper Flax one. Maybe I'm wrong. No, I agree. But look, in my view, the best compatible teammate that LeBron has ever had was Kyrie.

because, you know, and I mean, it's not like a clear, you know, there were moments where he and Wade were transcendent. Obviously, there were moments when he and AD were impossible to deal with. But the guy who he played with who best fit his skill set was Kyrie because you need a guy who can handle the ball and but is also awesome off the ball. And so that when LeBron is tired, because one of the things LeBron perfected, especially in his Kyrie years, was resting during the game. And he was very happy to let Kyrie go ahead and cook at various times. It's just that LeBron ate first, which, you know, did irritate Kyrie a little bit and contributed to his desire, his desire to leave.

He, he, you know, his first weeks with Kyrie, he was up his, you know, what, because he felt Kyrie was hogging the ball. And they got off to a rough start. You know, Kyrie didn't sign to play with LeBron and Cleveland. You know, Kyrie signed his five-year extension thinking it was going to be his team. And then LeBron arrived two weeks later. But anyway, I think that can work. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

I would just say, by the way, you know, you talk about LeBron physically. So this is the thing about Flagg. Most 18, 19-year-olds who come in the league, no matter how skilled they are. And, you know, Grant Hill came into the league after a four-year incredible college career. They can't physically compete. Right. So, like, I don't, you know, I don't care if Kamon Malewak is swatting six shots a night. He is going to get pushed around because he is physically not able to, you know,

you put him up against the men in there. He's going to get pushed around. And most 19-year-olds do. I don't care even if they're athletic freaks. LeBron came in and physically was able to compete as an 18-year-old. With one exception, Vinny, one guy got up into LeBron. and that was Ron Artex. Ron Artex, that was a night.

And they played them twice in the first like six games. And I remember Paul Silas, rest in peace, him saying like, LeBron King, they played our test the first time. And our test shoved him around. But that's the thing about Flagg is that he is going to be bigger, especially if he plays the one, he's going to be. bigger and physically able to compete with most of the guys that are on him. Now, I will say this. Typically, when you have a young guard, you rely on a young guard, people who listen to the

podcast know this, they've heard me say this about, you know, typically it means losing. You know, one of the easiest ways to tank is to play young guards. So if the, if the, if the, if the, if the, if the, if the, if the, if the maves are going to do that and they're going to say, okay, we're going to have Cooper be our primary point guard in a Western conference where you have a bad 10 games and you're, you're in trouble. they're going to pay a price for that. But over the long haul, I think it's the right decision, which is probably what they were talking about with you, Vinny,

which is why they made that mind up and why they didn't prioritize getting more of a replacement for Kyrie. I mean, well, think about it like this. Jason Kidd was the coach of the Bucks when he slid Janus over to play point guard. I think it was year three. And his whole thing was, yeah, it's going to be rough now, but it's going to be much better for him and us down the line. Now, Jason Kidd won around to reap the rewards of that.

And look at what Milwaukee's going to do now. Janus is going to be their de facto point guard this year again, because they don't got another one on the roster. Now, it's funny, Wendy, you want to one day, you've got to take us down memory lane to talk about the Eric Snow Paul Silas story. That was in Detroit. That was in Detroit. I don't want to talk about no Eric Snow.

Well, so after LeBron's rookie year, where they're pointing. card situation was rough. They went out and traded for two point cards. They traded for Jeff McGinnis. And they traded for Eric Snow. I traded for Eric Snow the following year. And Eric Snow was of another era as a point card. The guy, you know, couldn't make a 12-footer, but was extremely strong defensively, a great leader in the locker room. You know how Slater, you know how Andre Aguadala was kind of known for when it came to the media. He would always challenge the media, put the media in uncomfortable situations. Like, that's what he was known for.

Yes, I do recall a few times where that has happened. I just saw Andre and Abu Dhabi two weeks ago. He was out there, the head of the Players Union now. Eric Snow was kind of like that. When you asked him a question, he always come back at you. I believe they probably played together in Philly, Andre and Eric Snow. It might have been where Andre got it. Maybe.

You know, Eric, is today Tuesday? Why are you asking that? What do you mean by that? But anyway, so Eric Snow was headstrong. Okay. And he was built like a linebacker. His brother was actually an NFL linebacker. And so it was his night in Detroit. And look, Detroit effed up the calves a lot back then, Vinnie.

Shocker. They were big and strong. And they were the big dogs, you know, and especially after they got Rashid. And you remember, Rashid, the one night, scraked Zed Zedrinus Ogous over the head and cut his head open, bled all over the court. And it was a home-in-home. They played the next night.

And nobody, everybody was afraid to give retribution to Rashid. Rashid got ejected for Flagrant, too, because he, he sliced Ogouskis' head open. And the calves were so petrified of him that nobody would go do anything. Not even LeBron would do anything. The game was in Detroit, where Z got cut. The next night it was in Cleveland, and people, you know, held up signs and said, She must bleed. I remember that.

And nobody did anything until Ilgouskis tired of waiting around in the third quarter, body slammed him and knocked him over. And he stood over him and said some stuff to him. And I asked Rashid after the game. I said, what did he say? He's like, I don't know, man. He was speaking in his language. I have no idea what he said.

And then I went and asked Z. I go, hey, what did you say to him? And he goes, he said he was, you said you were speaking with the way. And he goes, no, I was. I was. I was speaking English. So anyway, the Pistons got up into the calves. in those early years, right?

And they were having a game up in, in Detroit, and the Pistons were getting into them, you know, Chauncey Billups was bodying him up, and Lindsey Hunter, as Mace used to say, and, you know, Jason Maxiel, you know, they just had these physical sheed and Ben Wallace. He just had all these physical guys. In fact, really, the entire,

everything with that rivalry changed when Ben Wallace went to the Bulls, because then the calves weren't as afraid of the interior and she was slowing down a little bit. Anyway, so there's night, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the Pistons are having one of these games where they decide they, they don't want the calves to break 70, which had happened a few times. And they were just being very physical, and Silas was so frustrated. And at one point, they couldn't get the ball over half court, because the pistons were applying pressure. And Silas called time out in the back court. And, um, there was only, I think, um, a couple of

seconds left on the shot clock, they had to get the ball over. And apparently in the huddle. And I'm sure there was, there was stuff leading up to the, this in the huddle silas was like you know you got to pass it to the front court and snow was inbound in the ball and by the way this is in the old days where we sat next to the court i could hear all this and um snow they couldn't get the ball in bounds and snow passed it to the back court and they got they got an eight second violation and silas was absolutely apoplectic okay and so he pulled snow out of the game immediately and cursed him out on the way of the bench and Snow gave it back to him. So he kicked Eric Snow off the bench. He said, go to the locker.

Get your ass to the locker room. This is like, I don't, were you at this game, Vinny? No, I was, I just remember. I remember the post game of it. So he kicked, he kicked him out of the, kicked him out of locker room. But you have to understand the way Silas talked. He was a, we call him the grizzly bear. And so the post game comes out. And naturally, we want to, to know about Eric Snow, about kicking the guy off of the bench. And Silas is like, I ain't going to talk about it. So he has asked about it again. He's like, I told you, I ain't going to talk about Eric Snow.

And somebody brought it up again, and Silas exploded. And he was like, how my time's I got to tell you, I ain't going to talk about it. My speaking Chinese? And then he went, bleep. Jesus, bleep. And they suspended Eric Snow for the next game. Yeah, so that was... Can you imagine Steve Kerr saying,

I don't want to talk about Draymond Green? Can you imagine Steve just getting peppered by the media? I don't want to talk about him. This actually did kind of happen in Detroit, of all places, a few years ago when he kept getting asked about the centers. He exploded at our... Exploded is too strong, but he went after Mark Medina, the legendary Mark Medina

for... Wow. Who's mild-mannered. Very. And then he apologized the next day at practice for his response.

Why don't we have... We don't have characters anymore. The coaches are cookie cutter. They wear the same quarter limbs zip. I think we got characters. Like Joe Mazzula is a character,

right? It's another word I would use for Joe Mazzula. And character ain't it. Well, that's a guy is not afraid to make the media uncomfortable. No, he's not. No, he's not. I saw some video today. It sounded like

he was in a Celtics coaches against Celtics media basketball game. It was 57 to 4 or something like that. 57 of 4 Celtics coaches won. And I can imagine, and Missoula, who did Missoula want to see bleed more? His fellow coaches are media

members? Oh, that's the question. The media, by far. By the way, like one of the more remarkable moments of a press conference of this decade that I was in was before game one, I think, of the final. Vinnie, did you ask the question? You were in there. I know you're in there. No, I know what you're about to say. And yes, that was my question. Well, you tell the story. Okay. So it was between, the day between game one and game two. And Slater, it was this thing

where Missoula's on one side, Jason Kitt's on the other side. The first time two black coaches earned a final since like 1975. When I say the easiest off day story to write when you ain't got nothing else to write about, I go talk to Jason Kidd, he's fine. I go talk to Adam Silver, he's fine. I'm like, all I got to get left is Joe Mazula.

Joe, this is the first time there's been two black coaches in the NBA finals since 1975. Is that any significance to you or? And he says, I wonder how many of them were Christian coaches. I want to say, Joe, all of them were Christian coaches, Joe. All of them. He said, I wonder how many are Christian coaches. And Vinny, you could hear the lights, the fluorescent lights in the room after that.

I had passed the mic because I would have come with a, you know, with a follow-up. Like, yet we're not in a, no, I was going to say something. We're not in an anti-Christian sort of society here. So it's not idiot. And I lit him up in print the next day. And they even wound up having a conversation a couple days later, we were fine. But, yeah. Old school journalism.

That's the thing. Like Silas didn't care about making people uncomfortable. I mean, and players, too. I mean, he stuffed players into locker. That gets your thing, like physically. Iron noble. Well, the I renewable. I feel like I'm telling Jackson, if I told the Irrenuble story,

I feel like I've told that story before. But I don't know. Maybe I should because this is a preseason. This is a central division, like, you know, history lesson. You hip hop, mother bleeper, get back here. I'm not dough. I told the story when Silas passed away a couple years ago. But, yeah, he in front of the media cursed out Ira Neubel and chased him out of the locker.

When I say, I want to be clear. Like, you think that the figure of speech chased a player out of the locker room? No, no. Ira came running out of the locker room with half of his clothes on, and Silas was on his tail. Chasing him, chased him out of the locker room. That's how they roll 23. years ago. Wendy, I'm going to get you to, we're going to, this, the Wendy Goodwill Slater pod is going

to be a fun pod. The Bontem Pacific Man, where they're bitching at each other. They're angry. They are so mad. Slater, we're not kicking it like that here. We're just going to talk Central Division memory. No, we're not doing that. No, we're not going to do that.

I was going to say that Cooper flag playing point guard, which I assume, there's a good chance of him doing on ESPN. You know, I don't know how many, you know, it's a Wednesday night. So, you know, there's, you got Macian or you got Cooper Flagg you can watch. I would, I'm going to check it out, even though Luca, I don't think is playing. He decided not to play. He had to pick one end of a back to back. Is Ken State in the Mac?

Ken State just one Mac game over the weekend. Well, there you go. They're part of Macion. I know, you know, you can do YouTube TV now. You can combo box it. Don't worry about it. Yeah. But I will just say, you know, Dylan Harper this week, uh, he had a game where,

he had eight, 11 points and eight assists. And it's kind of hard to get a read on the, on the spurs because Deerun Fox isn't playing. But, you know, Dylan Harper is going to get a lot of time too. And that's, again, a young guard. By the way, Victor dunked on Monday night while he was standing on the floor. And I don't know if you noticed this. But when Victor came, when I was in France, when Victor was in his gap year, when he was playing, till he get 19.

They all said he was 7 foot 5. I came back saying he's 7.5. He shows up and he says he's 7.3. And they put him on the roster of 7.3. And I was like, I don't know how tall he is, but they all said he was 7.5 in France. So, okay, two years, he's 7 foot 3 on the roster. Boban was in here today. Boban was doing NBA today.

Boban is 7 foot 4 in bare feet. He wears shoes. So I'm going to give him 7.5. And Boban said that when he met Victor, he was looking up to him. Okay. Now, Victor has grown, and the Spurs have updated their roster. Victor is no longer listed at 7 foot 3. He is listed at 7 foot 5, okay?

But I don't think he's 7 foot 5. I think he was 7 foot 5 when he came in the league, and I think he's now pushing 7.7. I'm going to tell you that Boban can still, we have a rim here in the studio. Bobon can still grab the rim on his tiptoes. Victor was holding the rim last night on his bare feet, or I mean on his flat feet. He had shoes on. So I'm just telling you, I think we got a guy in this league who might be 7-7 is what I'm telling you. But there's a young point guard there that is very exciting.

There's a lot of excitement around Dylan Harper. And so what we're going to see with these Texas teams, we're going to see enormous size because you know with Fred Van Vleet hurt, they're going to play on men Thompson a point guard. and there's going to be times Emio Duk has already said it there's going to be times where he's going to play Stephen Adams at center

he's going to play Shangoon at 4 he's going to play Jabari Smith Jr. at 3 and select your 2 whoever they may be and they're going to put them in Thompson at center and you're going to have Kevin Durant Kevin Durant at 3 Jabari at 2 a men at 1

and you're talking Kevin Durant could be your 2 right I don't know why I had a brain fart there we okay now now you think about Dallas right now Dallas can put lively at center AD at four. You can have PJ Washington at three.

You can have Clay at two, and you have Cooper at one. And you could even switch up some of those wings, have Najee Marshall in there, depending on what you're doing. That's crazy talk right there. And, you know, so you can see, and then, you know,

meanwhile down in San Antonio, they can play, they may play lineups where they play Dier and Fox, Dillan Harper, and Stefan Castle together. or Devin Vesel for the other two guys. And they can cover up for that because they might have a guy who's legit 7-7 playing in there.

And that's all to deal with the fact that the champs can play a lineup where they roll out a seven-foot two guy as their four and a seven-footer as their five. So, like, they mess around this Western conference. That area of the country is going to be a fascinating, stylistic clash, just nightly this year, for sure. And there's a reason why the other night the Nuggets had Valenshunis and Yokish out there together because they're getting ready to face some lineups where if you don't have extreme size out there, you got problems. And the thing is, you just named four teams in the West that can play like that.

So it's not like it's just one and you can make due for a night. Like you have to, your roster construction has to account for this stuff. Like now, not that it's long, not that he's long gone, that Rudy Goldberg, Carl Townstein don't sound so unappealing anymore if you're Minnesota. Granted Julius Randall was there and Carl isn't. But it seems like I wonder if this is like the norm, not the norm, but it's not going to feel so windy and Slater. It's not going to feel so abnormal when you see.

big versatile line. Because small used to equal versatile. Now big can equal versatile. And even San Antonio, if they played three small guards, that means you got three guards or guards. You got three guys that can give Victor ball. That's the advantage there in theory.

Yeah. Look, the Clippers could put, I mean, I'm not saying they're going to play this a lot, but if they had to, they could put Lopez, depending on who they're playing against, they could put Lopez and Zubach out there. I mean, that's one of the reasons Slater, that Horford signing was so important. Not that Horford can go toe to toe, but like, as you know, this is a trend that goes against what the way the Warriors have been built.

So that Horford signing and his versatility, now you sort of see the vision. For sure. I mean, and part of it is like they're trying to hold off Dr. Maureen's aging process as long as possible. And part of that is not making him the center against these Goliath Western Conference matchups. But also what was interesting, you know, I covered the Warriors Rock's first round series last year and going into that series, you know, Sanguin and Adams together had worked really good, but part of the Warriors prep told them that will only do San Gune and Adams in the rare minutes Steph Curry is off the floor.

And that was how the series started. That was how they predicted the series was going to go. By the end of that series, Ema Eudoka didn't care if Steph Curry was on or off the floor. He was playing those two bigs in it was working. They were bashing them on the glass. They were trying to do defensive tricks to still be able to guard Steph Curry lineups. But that to me was, you know, as we talk about the league's paradigm shift,

As I covered that series, the people around it were like, this is like, you know, the two big lineups kind of working against the staff lineups to a point where it's not just some, you know, pet lineup that you can throw in for five minutes of the game. It's like, no, you can just kind of bash whatever team you want with these lineups. All right, guys, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Vinny getting me to tell old stories because that's one of my favorite things to do. I don't know.

People might be turned it off going, Jesus Christ, he's telling us story from 2005 again. We're going to get you on next time. They're going to like it. Next time it's going to be pit like, I need a Tashon Prince story. I need, you know. I got a Tashon, I got a Tashon, I'll tell you right now. I'm sure you got a few. When Wendy said he just casually mentioned that LeBron and Larry Brown were heading the

word was quarreling. I appreciated that word. I was like, I might want to open that box up a little bit at some point. Larry Brown suspended LeBron during Team USA. LeBron, who is famous for being on top. time. If you're, the easiest way to piss LeBron off is to be late,

to be messy or late. If you're messy in the locker room, if you're late, you make LeBron wait. You got a problem. LeBron showed up late, which may have something to do with him. Hang on with I ever sent on that team.

That's another story. LeBron showed up late. Larry Brown, I mean, I say suspended him. He didn't start him or something. I can't remember. And then he just didn't play him,

which drove LeBron crazy. They'd be sitting on the bench. They're, you know, they're getting beat by Puerto Rico. and, you know, LeBron's like, yeah, LeBron's like, why don't you have me out there, you know, which I'm not sure what it's been able to save that team,

but I'm just saying that, you know, he didn't, you know, he's on the record is how much he didn't like it. So, and then Dan Gilbert tried to hire Larry Brown. Yeah, during the playoffs. Yeah. See, I can keep winding this string up for you too. I'll just got to mention a few names and you can get you all down. So here comes another story.

So This story is a very old story that I've never told And I hope it doesn't get me in trouble Redacted All right I enjoyed it Next time we'll talk about 2025-26 season

And not 20-20-5-6 season 20-2005-thus Ron Artec was terrorizing him He terrorized the entire arena a year later. You got that right. And probably, well, that's another story. By the way, that night that went down,

the Pacers crushed the Pistons. Our test was a demon in that game. That was the thing. Like, that was the Pacers had sent the message that they went into the palace. And then it went a little sideways. Wes was there that night, too, by the way. He was carrying our test.

He was carrying our test off the floor. So was Nick's coach Mike Brown. He's the first coach into the crowd to chase down. on our test. Yeah, he pulled them out. Yeah, yeah. Mike's suit got ruined because he had three gallons of beer poured on it. Oh, yeah.

Anyway, all right, thank you to Jackson for producing. Thank you to Vinny and to Slater. Thank you for watching, listening to The Hoop Collective, throwback edition. Slater was not born. And we'll talk to you later this week.