Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - A Star Prospects Debut & Some Potential Bounce Backs?

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the impressive unofficial debut from AJ Dybantsa at BYU, Joel Embiid’s return & what reasonable expectations are for the 76ers, how concerning Memphis’ injuries are, the latest additions to the Kings’ roster and the likelihood of the title defense for the Thunder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the HOOC collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Saturday evening. We just had to delay our podcast time because Texas and Kentucky went to OT.

But our resident Longhorn, at least a parent of a Longhorn, a benefactor of a Longhorn, was a living and dying with it. Anyway, joining us from New York City, where he will be attending the Knicks versus Cavs, on Wednesday night, I believe, and the big opener on ESPN with our new teammates from inside the NBA. Before that, is Ben,

oh, is Tim Bontems. That was quite the intro. I know. I'm always messing that up. Yeah. Are those guys going to be live at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday? I do not have that information.

I should have looked it up, but I do not know. Oh. Yeah, that should, that will be there. We'll see if they're there. Yeah. And our guy Vinie Goodwill will be there.

Our man, Vince Goodwell. By the way, he announced that he goes by Vince. Have you ever called him Vince or heard anybody call him Vince? I call him a lot of things. Vince ain't love. And when I text him, I put Vince in quotes because I thought that was a ridiculous thing. Joining us from a very pleasant, very satisfied and happy Dallas living room. Actually, it's his office.

This Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. Old horns made me sweat out a hideously ugly one. But tell you what? Mean, green, bold. Bowbound baby, six and one, blew out the UTSA Roadrunners a day. Oh, Mike Wright texted me from his San Antonio home, talking a little trash this morning. I invited him to make a friendly wager on that game, and his wife would not allow him to.

His wife is a lot smarter than Mike, which ain't saying much, but she is. Well, guess what I did on Saturday afternoon, gents? Oh, I know, I know, but tell us. I went to a college basketball game, which I usually do about once or two. place a year. Big Ben, we're about to have a new discovery. Add it to the list. We got Victor Wenbanyama.

We got Chet Holmgren. We got a lot of luminous discoveries by Brian Winnerst over the years. Brian, who's the latest discovery? He's been on the list. This is just continue. This actually is a prior discovery from Paris last year. That's correct. Excuse me.

Today was Anise de Bansa Jr.'s first college game. I didn't see there of you there. There we go. We're not making, you know, I mean, we're being fancy pulling out full names for the discovery. We got to hype up the find. His dad, who was profiled in the Washington Post on Saturday, by the way. His dad asked me to, his dad's nickname is Ace.

I've always known him as Ace, but his dad's name is Anise de Bancis Sr. There's a T on the end, but it's not, it's silent. And so he. He requested that I let people know that his name is a niece. I think he'll still go by AJ and I think his dad will still go by Ace. But, yeah, AJ DeBansa, I watched him. The BYU, Cougars played an exhibition game at Nebraska at noon on a Saturday. They had a decent crowd, all things considered for that exhibition game.

And they actually won the game by a point, which was another. set because BYU is ranked eighth. I'm not sure which poll has a may. Maybe it's the eight people. I don't know, eight people preseason eighth, but it doesn't count. But yeah, I watched AJ Abanza play his first college game. There were, I didn't see this many teams there, but the folks that, the fine folks at Nebraska told me that there were 14 NBA teams that requested credentials.

I was going to ask you that. Now, also, to be clear, did you go as a. ticket buying or ticket getting fan or did you go with a media credential? Excuse me, sir. I was working. Okay, I'm just asking. I was working. I was a working media member. Okay. Yeah, I wanted to go see. I got to meet AJ and his dad last year in Paris and I've kept in touch with them.

And so yeah, I wanted to go see his first game. And he was especially considering he was his first game, 18 year old first game. he was damn impressive, damn impressive. His stats, sort of speak for themselves. He had 30 points. I'm sure how many rebounds and assists he finished with. I'll check that. But in the first half, he had 19 points in 15 minutes.

30 points, 7 rebounds, three assists, three steals, 10 of 19 from the floor. and, you know, I just watched the little highlights on Twitter, but big athletic with touch and ball handling skills. Ain't a bad combination. Yeah, and Nebraska is not an awesome team, but they're a quality team. They won that postseason event they called the Crown that Fox Sports created last year.

They did win that. I was looking around to see if they had the gall to hang a banner, Lakers style. but I did not see a banner. Maybe that'll be rolled out on opening night, like we're going to see from the Thunder here in a few days. So what I will say about him, not being someone who leads the league in player evaluation,

that's not what I do, although I did talk to some scouts there. So one of the things I'll say about him is that he plays multi-positions. I guess technically he started at four, but he would bring the ball up regularly, especially if they had a dead ball situation, he would bring the ball up. He,

whenever he got a rebound, he definitely brought it up. They don't run tons of stuff for him, but when they do run stuff, he plays with his back to the basket. He'll catch the ball in the mid-post. And I also watched him his pre-game. He, through his pre-game warm-ups,

he went through, you know, post-catches and turnarounds. And he took a couple of turnarounds in this game. He wasn't successful at him. He was much better shooting a three ball. But he had a couple of spot-up threes. He took some pull-up threes, which were not his best shots in the game. But one thing that I noticed right away is he has a nose for getting to the line. So he played something in the mid-30s and the minutes of this game.

He played regular season minutes. and he got eight free throws, got the line, got four shooting fouls. He definitely looks to get to the line and he will get to the line. There were some times where they ran some stuff for him, but basically, you know, and talking to the BYU folks, you know, maybe later on in this season, he'll be like sort of the centerpiece of everything, but early on, they just want him to sort of be in the flow. My point is the whole situation, while it is basically set up around him, I mean,

BYU is where they're at because of him. They don't operate the team that way, at least not in their first exhibition game. And I will say, you know, there were growing pains. There was one point where he got into like a bit of a minor shoving match with one of the Nebraska players. And he lost his man going down the other end. the court and he gave up a three another time they were in the middle of giving up a run and he kind of broke off a play and stuck his put his head down and tried to try to just score and he ate

the shot you know they got they blocked his shot and there was you know another time where he had a good hard-nosed player sam hoyberg uh fred hoiberg's son oh yes but um i i i don't know what they're listed as but i i think there's a good chance that sam hoyberg is is a full foot shorter than AJ DeBanza and he didn't take advantage. He had him and he just sort of gave it up. Oh, Sam ain't tall enough for a ref an NBA game? Definitely not. I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to say that I am by your standards,

but no, definitely not Sam, but they love him. They love Sam. So, but this guy is, you know, a, I mean, he's smooth. He's got great size, big wingspan, you know. Again, I'm watching him for one game here. I don't have volumes of notes like how he played last year. And I think he played in Hurricane, so near St. George, the prep school he was at in Utah.

So maybe I'm saying stuff that, you know, all these other scouts know all about. But he wanted to rebound the ball and he wanted to challenge shots. Like he looked like he wanted to. So the scouts, a couple of the scouts who were at this game that I know have been in the Midwest for a couple of days. days. Craton had an exhibition game on Friday night.

And before that, a couple of them went to see Kansas practice. And they were talking about Daryl Peterson, who was the other. Darren Peterson, who was the other strong candidate to be number one pick. And, you know, that was just a practice.

But they were like, these two guys are big time studs. There might be a couple. There's a couple guys, besides them too. There's Camer Boosier at Duke. There's Nate of Men at Tennessee. Chris Scenac at Houston is a really big-time prospect.

McKell Brown at Louisville. This is a loaded draft and not just the top couple guys. Like even if you get the fourth, the fifth, the sixth pick this year, you're going to get, at least as of today, people think, a really good player. So, you know, there's a lot of talent. It's going to be an interesting year to watch.

And yeah, like, certainly as of now, The one and two guys are AJ and Darren. It's going to be a very fun year to see how those guys develop and how some of these other guys develop. And there's going to be another handful of NBA teams, hoping to lose as many games as possible to have the right to have one of them on their team next year. The interesting thing, and again, I am, you know, I am not a shoe guy. You know, that's our old compadre

Nick DePaul is territory. But the scouts were telling me that the word on the street is, you know, he's wearing Nike right now, but I don't know status of the contract, but the scouts were telling me that there's a chance that there's going to be a shoe swap, shoe swap. And, well, I asked, I asked Ace. Ace is, his dad, he just goes,

he goes into this in the in the Washington Post article but you know he does have a marketing agent that he's working with who's helped him with some of his marketing deals

like I know he's got to deal with Red Bull for example but he doesn't have an agent and the plan is not to have an agent and just this year or going to the NBA I don't have to tell you

right now I don't pick the plane I mean, I think they would say that they do have an agent, which is this guy, Leonard Amato, who was one of Shaquillo-Neal's agents. He's been around a long time, a very experienced agent. He's, I think, advising them. But, you know, and people feel a certain way about that. I've gotten to know his dad, a niece, senior, ace. And, you know, he's a former policeman. He was a policeman in Brockton, Massachusetts for 19 years.

He's got a different background than you would normally see with basketball dads. I also met and spent some time with his mother today. I did, this is what I did. You know, NBA scouts are not allowed to talk to the family. That's against the rules until they declare. So what's what I did today. No, all those scouts were there. They're not allowed to talk to the family where I am.

And so I met his sister, Jasmine, and I met his mother. His mother is born and partially raised in Jamaica, which, you know, there's so many NBA players who have Jamaican heritage. And so his dad, his dad is... of Congolese descent, which is what Victor Wenbanjama's father, Felix, is. I'm getting to the age where I know the dads. It's not a great age.

Well, we're older than the dads and a lot of kids. Yeah. Before this podcast started, we were talking to Jackson, our esteemed producer. This is... And we were talking to him about Eric Metcalf. the former Texas Longhorn in Cleveland Brown,

and Jackson had no idea who he was, and it was hurtful to us. But yeah, so I now know these guys' dads. That's my role. AJ has played for Team USA, though, right? He did. He did play for Team USA at U-19. He was the MVP of the U-19 World Cup,

which just happened over the time. I was just thinking because the Thompson twins are apparently going to be playing for Jamaica. I'm moving forward. That is what Ace said today. I have not spoken anybody about that. I'm just saying, boy, you're still. Grant Hill and Eric Spolstra, when I heard that,

I was like, get thee to Houston and Detroit and try to nip that in the bud because the Americans could use Amman and Asar Thompson. I'm not sure in 28, but maybe by 28 and certainly by 32. I think I'm in by 28 for sure. Yeah. You got to nip that in the, but not that I, you know, look, you know, Bonn Thompson and I talked about this last year, you know, how great it was to see the Bahamanian team with Vijay Edgham and DeAndre Aiden and Clay Thompson. Not quite.

Try to qualify for the Olympics. Yeah, not Clay didn't play. No, Buddy Healed and Eric Gordon who had team USA experience. I mean, went through the process with Fever to be able to play for Bahamas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't because that was when Clay was obviously a free agent.

He would have been a more complicated process for him because he'd played for team they're saying the Olympics and et cetera. Well, they almost qualified for the Olympics and didn't. But yeah, he did say that. Yes, AJ has played. I don't know. I mean, to be honest with you, if AJ wanted to play for the Bahamas, he probably would be allowed to because, I'm sorry, Jamaica, he probably would be allowed to.

but Grant Hill should get on that too. Make sure that that gets nipped in the bud. Yeah, usually if you haven't played for the senior national team, but you've played for low levels. So I'll give you a one-time switch. Especially if you're not going to play for like America or friends. If you're not going, yeah, exactly. And my friend and former colleague, Jesse Dorney, wrote that story on DeBance's dad.

You should go check it out, Washington Post. Ace was pretty happy about it. So, yeah, so I'll take off my college basketball evaluation hat now, but I was happy to be able to drive over to Lincoln today to go see A.J. play. And I predict he's going to have some big time scoring games here because one thing I can just tell you. When he makes a prediction, he goes down on a little. I'm glad we got through 12 minutes of breakdown of an exhibition game to declare that A.J. DeBance is going to score in college basketball games.

This guy who's making like $6 million in NIL money, like, $4.4. That is, you know, again, the discovery, McMahon. We have discovered A.J. DeBanson. What's big scoring in a college basketball game? If you score 20, it's considered a big... Listen, buddy. You're the one who just declared the guy who's going to be the first, as I can pick at the drafts.

I've got to score a lot of points in college games. You deserve to get folks down for that. I'm just going to think BYU's bench is going to blow teams out of the water. So I think AJ is going to get a lot of minutes and score a lot of points. It's been all that NIO on the starters, that's for sure. Ryan Smith's got to go raise some more money. By the way, there was a guy for Nebraska. I should at least mention it.

this guy named Rink Mast, who's a Dutchman. Hell of a name. And he made his first, he missed all of last season with a knee injury, and he's 610. Okay. And he made seven, his first seven threes in this game. Has Nebraska produced an NBA player since Eric Strickland? How about Ty Lou?

Oh, okay, he's since Strickland. Piacowski, they've had a few. There's been one more recently, but I forget. Oh, they had a big guy. anyways. Anyway, I was talking to some of the scouts and, you know, they were like, man, I mean, he's 24-year-old, but he's 6-10, he shoots threes. I was like, this guy's going to make a lot of money.

I don't know about the NBA, but he's going to make a lot of money somewhere. So I should mention that I did, and by the he scored 31 points. So DeBanza did not lead the game in scoring. Rick Bass is also likely to have some big scoring games this year, shooting three ball, apparently, for Nebraska. No, I did not say that. By the way, like, let's go look at college basketball's leading scores. What was college basketball leading scores?

Well, no, because there will be some guy from like, let's not do that. There'll be some guy from like Oakland University in Detroit. Let's get back to talking about the NBA. We've got a good diversion with AJ DeBance. We don't need to go. The Banssa shoot things interesting, though. The leading score in the NCAA last year, average 23 points a game.

So you think that I'm saying this guy scored 30 in his first ever college game, he might like potentially do some special scoring things, what I'm saying. We will grant you. We are aware. We are aware. We're glad you've discovered it. So BYU is a Nike school, I take it. It is.

Okay. But Cooper Flagg has had his new balance deal. He had his new balance deal before he went to Duke. But because he went to a Nike school, he did have to wear Nike at Duke. Okay. Despite the fact that he was already a new balance, you know, endorsement guy. And Agent DeBancel, like Cooper Flagg is a guy from the Northeast, where from Boston where new balance is located.

I have no idea if he's going to new balance or not, but it is interesting. Good reporting there, Bontemps, that might, in fact, what the speculation. Yes, I don't,

I don't besmirch somebody who's maybe does good observation. I literally had no idea that was what the reporting was. Well, it wasn't reporting. That's just what the scouts were saying. No, well, I'm saying. I didn't, until three minutes ago,

I didn't know AJ DeBanza was debating, changing shoes. Well, I said to his dad, I said, the scouts think he's going to Nike and he said, the scouts should worry more about their evaluation than what shoes he's wearing. So that was the official comment. He was wearing Nikes today because He was telling him to come to Win Horse for the official,

for the official discovery of his prospect status. I'm just saying, I went to his first college game to score 30 points. What do you want me to say? It wasn't like they were playing a division three team. If you asked Wendy for shoe advice, he'll be wearing on cloud. Yeah. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

All right, Bontems on Friday, you went to see the Philly 76ers play. And for the first time... I discovered Joelle and Bede on the court. That's a real discovery. Like the Lochness monster. Joel and Bid, BJ Edgecombe, Quentin Grimes, Tyrese Maxie. It was a fun. Yon Barron Jay, rookie center for the wolves, who was pretty impressive.

He's got something. I don't know how much he's going to impact this season, but I think that guy's going to be a player. I think he's going to be their backup center right away. Like I'm not saying he's going to play 30 minutes a game or anything, but he plays super hard. He's really bouncy. He's going to be able to carve out a role playing a few minutes off the bench,

catching lobs, I think, for them. I was talking to a scout who was not a Timberwell scout from another team in the West today, who was raving about Barron J's potential. And one thing he pointed out was that he blocked shots with both hands, which is not as, you know, common as you might think. And said it's because, you know, this guy's played more goalie than he has basketball. He was a soccer ball. Oh, soccer goalie primarily. Yeah, soccer goalie primarily.

Are there a goalie and handball? I think, I thought, I don't know. I didn't know he was a soccer player. Handball is big in France. But, you know, he's one of these like very athletic, springy seven footers. who didn't play basketball until well into his teams. Yeah, he's super interesting. Joe L&B didn't play basketball into all into his teams either.

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, 10 years later, won the MVP. It was a fun game to Philly. Yeah, Jalen, I mean, all the wolves guys had played the night before in Chicago, all the starters, so none of them played. But Jalen Clark, who's got a chance to fill in for someone to Kiel Alexander Walker's minutes, had some moments on the wing. Barron Jay looked good.

And yeah, obviously the main story was really good game for VG Edgecombe. Nick Nurse basically said he's going to be starting a Tyrese Maxie. Is that a very good camp? You talked before, Brian, about how people in Philly are very excited about VG Edgecom. I can also say people are in Philly are very excited about VJ Edgecombe. I saw BJ Edgecombe's first NBA game as well. Does that mean anything to you? Which one?

Because I saw the first Summer League game, baby. Well, I didn't say. competing discoveries. Quentin Grimes looked good, shooting the ball. But yeah, obviously, the big story was Joel Embed playing his first real game since February when he ended the season, I think February 22nd after playing the Nets. And he looked pretty good, moved around pretty well. Wouldn't say it was a perfect performance.

He was doing a lot of throwing the ball halfway down the court and watching his teammates catch up to it because he's got a whole bunch of guys now who can run really fast. And so he did a lot of chilling and letting. and running him run down to get layups and dunks, which I appreciated as a guy who's now old playing pickup. You see me play pickup. My favorite way to contribute, grab a defense rebound, make an outlet pass, observe, see if I need to leave the paint in the backcourt. And then we score and I'm like, I contributed to that bucket and never had to leave the paint in the backcourt. That's glorious basketball.

And A, and B can do that. That'll save, that'll save some wear and tear on them. That's for sure. Look, the question for me coming into this game, and we had a pretty good sense all week, he was going to play, was he going to look something like he did either the second half of the 23, 24 season or before when he looked like a guy who was still an elite player? Or was it going to look like the guy who outside of that fourth quarter against Serbia really struggled for Team USA and really never looked good at all at any point last year for the Sixers?

And I wouldn't say he was back to like a point a minute guy, but he definitely looked at least like the guy who played against the Knicks in the first round of the playoffs with Bell's palsy and still had like 30, 12 and 6 in games. And look pretty good moving around. Didn't look like he had a brace on his knee. If he did, it was some really small one. It was not the big bulky one he had last year. And moved pretty well. Shot looks good. And I think the most interesting thing, even though Paul George didn't play, so it's a little hard to read this, was it's very clear Nick Nurse has the rest of this team conditioned to fly up and down the court at all times.

And they've got a lot of young athletes, and they're also small, so they have to play fast. But it really felt like the first time in a couple of years for this Philly team that they have a consistent thing they can go to, especially when a beat is out. and they'll have some sort of identity that they can lean on, whereas last year it was just a chaotic mess the whole way through. But with Maxie, with Grimes, with Edgecombe, they get Jared McCain back. They've got Kelly Ubrae, who's obviously an excellent transition player. Adem Bonas, a young big who can get up and down the court. They can play really fast and create turnovers and get out and run, which I think is what

they're going to try to do a lot of to counterbalance, getting the ball to win beat. and when Paul George is back, Paul George in the half court. But, you know, it's like we talked about the other day. The Sixers are not, to me, a team you should look at as they've got a ceiling of catching up to the Cavs or the Knicks. But there is no pressure on them. There really are no expectations on them. If Joel and Bede can play 50 games, 55 games, and look like he did health-wise Friday,

he's going to have a good season. And the Sixers are going to be, you know, a top. top six team in the east, and it's not going to look anything like it did last year, which is obviously a massive, massive improvement. Are we at the point where we are considering Paul George's contributions in the second year of a Max Deal to be almost a bonus? I don't know if I'd say a bonus, but I am curious to see what he looks like when he gets back.

I don't think he's too far away. He, I think, did some five-on-five practice on Thursday. he's definitely ramped up this week. I don't think he's like I think what did Choms say LeBron's target was mid-November? Yeah. Like a month in. I don't think, I think Paul George should be back before then, at least assuming things go okay. But look, part of Philly's problem is he's got to be their starting power forward when he's right.

And Paul George is not that big. And, you know, I think that's going to be something interesting to see. Like, is he the four because he has to be their big. player or is he the four because he can't really move well enough to guard twos and threes anymore that that i think will tell you what paul george is by the answer could no it could be both the other thing is every guy in the six are shot like comically below their expected rate from three last year including paul george who shot i think under 30 percent on open threes so like he's always been a very good shooter in the case mac man no i'm just saying like paul george comes back here baby he has him

right up there with Toronto. I mean, as I talked about the other day, I think Toronto, Toronto and Philly will probably have similar. No, it's not. Remember when they were trying to keep Kauai Leonard and they had the Kauai and dine and they said Kauai would never pay for a meal and they got like dozens and dozens of restaurants signing out. It's bombed him to Toronto now. I'm sure. I'm sure that I'm sure the other things we said about Toronto have people. they're mad at me.

Yeah, look, the Paul George situation, like, at this point, I think you have to be more concerned about what Paul George can give them than Joel and Bede based off at least what we've seen in the preseason, which is Joel and Bede had a normal preseason by his standards. Like it was like two years ago when he went into the season to average a point of game. Again, I'm not saying he's going to average a point of game, but he had a normal preseason. He practiced all the way through. He looked good in the scrimmage. He looked good on Friday.

He's ready to go next week. A lot of it's about expectations, right? because when you're coming off an MVP award or you're projected to be like the Eastern Conference champs, and then all of a sudden it's like, well, he missed practice, he missed practice, he's out, he's out, I don't know when he's coming back. Like that's a problem. When you have no expectations and no one's, no one's sure whether they're going to see you October 30th, they're going to see you November 30th.

And then all of a sudden you just pop out there on the court and look pretty good, even though your situation is really just as tenuous as it was before, because I assume that on Wednesday night when they host the Celtics to open the season, that game is in Philly, right? It's in Boston. Oh, it's in Boston. Okay. I assume that he will go through the normal pregame thing, right?

Where he doesn't know and then he goes. I don't know. I mean, you would think so, but he didn't do that on Friday. I mean, they ruled him. I'm just, they ruled him in at noon, which is also unusual. If he's playing in a scrimmage, a public scrimmage in a preseason game, like I would hope there's not a setback. between that and yeah well by the way how can you assume any by the way right well you well you can't

but that's the thing like compared to a year ago a year ago the story in the preseason about the sixers was my story about well we're gonna manage our way through the season and we got this plan to be ready for the final for the playoffs because we're gonna make a deep playoff run talk about a want want one us wb story that was a that was a quinn i mean not that that's what you're It was not reporting. You went to the Bahamas and brought that story back, and it was people were like, what? Like, didn't they get fined based on that story? I mean, like, but it was, no, I don't think so. Frankly, it was organizational arrogance to the extreme of we're going to load, manage our way to a high seed. I think they said they were going to load manage their way all the way

through the conference finals, if I'm not mistaken. That's a joke on central. Well, I'm just, listen, we get aggregated, so I'm just clarifying. Aggregators, I'm just kidding. They didn't actually say that. But seriously, the arrogance of like, hey, Paul Georgia will play every once in a while and beat will play every once in a while. Well, microwave chemistry of these guys who have never been teammates before

and just go on this finals run because it's, just a birthright of a franchise that hasn't been the finals since AI's days. Well, it hasn't been to the conference finals since 2001, let alone the finals, including this whole Joel and B-run. By the way, we didn't even talk about this before the pod. Something else happened Friday with the Sixers that we haven't discussed at all, which is at 815 in the morning. The Sixers announced, as with the rest of Harris Blitz of Sports and Entertainment, that Bob Myers, the Bob Myers, our former colleague now, former four-time NBA champion executive at the Golden State Warriors, is now running all of Harris Blitzer sports and entertainment,

which includes obviously the Sixers and Crystal Pallas and the Premier League. And he's helping Josh Harris with the commanders, which are not exactly part of it, but are sort of. But in our world, right, the immediate question then is, well, what is Bob Myers' role with the Sixers going to be. That made for an interesting sort of thing hanging over this preseason game on Friday night. Now, what I would say is I do not expect Bob Myers to at any point be president of the Sixers and running the Sixers on a day-to-day basis. However, if he is officially in a job overseeing the Sixers and other teams,

that would at least indicate that, and by the way, when he already had a job where he was like consulting in some vague term, now he's officially... His arrangement as far as I know was that his consulting, and this was us out of respect to Daryl Morey as well, that he didn't get involved on... After the way last year went to then have this happen before the season, it's only going to, you know, open up questions about what the future of the Sixers is going to live. Is Daryl Morey reporting any way, shape, or form to Bob Myers? I believe the answer to that is no, according to Adam Schaefter's story on Friday. Yeah, I believe he reports to Josh Harris and David Blitzer. Who is, who are controlling with Bob Myers on a regular basis on all things. I will also say this about Bob.

I've just, it's been an absolute joy over the last couple of years to spend so many hours with Bob, watching these games, traveling with him. Also part of the reason why he left. us, but go on. It might be so. I think it was more a perk. By the way, that, you know,

he and Perk used to get into pretty significant back and forths on air. And sometimes it seems a little bit mean-spirited, like a little with a little edge. Just so you know, like he was Perks agent. I like got Perk tens of, yes. Negotiated Perk tens of millions of dollars in contracts.

But Bob has this incredible ability to disarm situations and boil things down. He'll just look at a complex situation and say two sentences. And you're like, that is actually exactly the situation. Or that is actually. And he's a great guy. Darryor Mory has the opposite ability to take something you might think is simple and make it's pretty complicated. Well, that's the whole NDA.

For example, the Rockets missed 27 straight threes to lose a game seven at home to Bob Myers, Golden State Warriors. And next thing you know, there's this like, I mean, 14 trees are killed for the report on the refereeing in the game that the Rockets were complaining about. And that also is why I brought up the Bob Figgins part is that I do think it's worth pointing out that I do not see envision any scenario where Bob Myers is ever president of the Sixers, nor is he trying to be president of six. Yeah, I also here's a thing. Last year, a number of teams, some of which have been reported and some of which haven't been, came to Bob Myers and wanted him to be their general. manager and offered him enormous sums of money and enormous conditions. And Bob respectfully took the meetings and then turned all of that down. So he was only going to, you know, he was not going to take NBA team X general manager job.

It was going to be a special job. By the way, I will say something about the, when you talk about making things complex or making things simple, one of the things when I talk to people, especially maybe people who are not sports fans at all or don't really understand much about the NBA and they ask me about the NBA. I say to them, one of the things that you find out when you spend a lot of time involved with the NBA is there are certain things that happen in the league where you cannot believe the complexity behind it. You cannot believe what teams do or organizations do to vet, protect, develop, blah, blah, blah, like 15 different layers. You're like, wow, this is

unbelievable. And then at the same time, you will see things that are incredibly shallow and done without thought. And you're like, wait a minute. That team did that without doing this. Petting and powers some decision making for sure. I think we've all seen that. Yes. So anyway, best of luck to Bob. But hey, my dang. I don't know what's going on. Listen, I got fancy lighting. I don't know what's going on with it. The third time the things collapsed on. The Texas Longhorn season. Yeah.

That in the Sixers season last year. But the Sixers, last year at this time, it was pretty much a consensus that they were somewhere in the pack of contenders. They weren't the favorites, the Celtics were, but they were considered a top. They were supposed to be taking swings with Boston at the top of the east. That was where they were at. And now, no. There's really, like you said, Wendy, there's really no expectations, but there's definitely still a ceiling for them to be, I don't know, contenders feels pretty bold, but there's a ceiling for them to know.

No, you can't say. Yeah, you can't say they can be, you can't say they're contenders. You could say that if things go right, could the Sixers finish third or fourth in the east in the regular season? Sure, I could see that. And then, you know, they could win around and maybe have a puncher's chance to win two. if it like high end. But I don't think anybody should be saying more than that. And look, if they can, again, if they win 44 games and have a top six seed after last year,

people are going to go, hey, right, top sixers on the other end. People say, hey, that that's a good season for filling, right? Which shows you just how horribly last year went and how through the floor the expectations are now for what this team can be or should be compared to where they were. A year ago. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right. Speaking of expectations, got an email on Saturday.

Oh, another discovery? Memphis, Grizzlies, medical. A bad discovery. Not even the one we're holding our breath for after. Yeah, so. Well, you just had said the other day, you know, Jaron Jackson came back from the surgery. Scotty Pippin Jr., who has really been a success story for them.

Big time. One of the great bargain contracts on a non-rokey deal in the NBA. I don't know if he's already undergone it, but they said he announced he is going to have a surgery that has a very long name. But basically, they're going to take a piece of bone out of his foot. Not great. Great, no. And they say a timeline will be provided. Shams said he's going to be re-evaluated in 12 weeks.

12 weeks from now is mid-January. That ain't great. And listen, Jha has expressed optimism that he will be back for the opener. That's not a sure thing as he's coming off a sprained ankle. And then the medical report that we have not received yet from the Grizzlies is on Ty Jerome, who, you know, a nice off-season pickup for them, you know, former resident Katz Corner, who really had a great year last year for Cleveland. But a guy who's had a lot of injuries.

Yeah. And hurt his calf in the preseason finale. And we all understand calf injuries are not. Faths are not quick. Calf are not quick. By the way, real talk, what do we think the grizzlies are going to be this year? Hurt? Yeah, I think this, every year you see a couple teams that you think, you know, I mean,

Philly's, obviously Philly's always hurt. I guess they're sort of like Memphis, obviously not the same expectations. But you see a couple teams come into the year and they just never get right from a health standpoint. And their season does not go the way that they expected it to. And if you look at where Memphis is at, they have their pick. They have probably this Phoenix pick, like two high value assets potentially. Like they just drafted Cedred Howard last year in the first round. They're very high on him long term.

Like we've talked a lot about Boston and Indy having gap. years in the Western Conference especially if you get in a hole early not sure you're getting out of it you know these guys could be down three point guards and three centers at the start of the season trying to think if there's a third center brandon Clark is out Zach Eadie's out uh Jock could be out tie Jerome could be out Scotty pippin's out for months like that's already five of their top what nine guys so you know this could quickly turn into a season where Memphis winds up being in a position. to jump up in the lottery and get one or two bites at what we just talked about as a really

loaded top of this draft, even if it's not what they were hoping for. I mean, I think you'd agree, McMahon. When they made the Desmond Bain trade, it's not like they were trying to be in the lottery this year. They thought they could still be a good team. But with all these injuries they've had, it's going to be really, really hard for them to get off to a good start. Well, the Desmond Bain trade, and by the way, they had the kind of season you're talking about a couple years ago, unfortunately, when John missed all but nine games because of the suspension and then the shoulder injury that ended his season when it was just getting started. The Desmond Bain trade was in admission that the version of the Grizzlies, you know, that chapter of the Grizzlies wasn't good enough. You know, I mean, you mentioned, what was it, three or four years ago in your future power rankings that you do with Bobby and Pelton, the Grizzlies, what, was it,

when they were number one in those? I'm going to go back and look right now. Definitely big time optimism about this franchise not that long ago. And then that core won a playoff series, one. Memphis, Memphis in March of 22 was first. In October of 22 was first. In October of 23 was fourth and have gone to 12th and 17th since. Yeah.

And so the Bain trade was a. the mission of, hey, we thought we had something that was going to be cooking for a while, and it wasn't good enough. They were an eight seed that got swept in the first round, and that was the reality of where that franchise was. And we can talk, well, they were leading by 29 points or whatever when jaw got hurt in the game three. Dude, okay, if jaw is healthy, it's a gentleman sweep instead of a straight-up sweep, whatever.

Right. They weren't nearly good enough. And they didn't make the Desmond Bain trade to get better. right now, they made the Desmond Bain trade to try to reconfigure the roster specifically around Jaron Jackson Jr. And I say that. It's actions over words because the actions are Jaron Jackson Jr. got his extension. The most they could give him, the second they could give it to him, despite the fact that they knew at the time he needed toe surgery. John Morant was extension elsewhere this summer. There weren't discussions. There wasn't an attempt. That doesn't mean he's definitely

not going to be part of the Grizzies' future, but it's very much a wait and see type of thing at the moment. And I'm in climbing at Media Days, that climbing their GM, I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said, we can all agree that this is a big year for JAA. And if the Grizzlies in this form are ever going to be a factor, John Moran's got to be a superstar. If John Moran's not a superstar, a healthy superstar, then the grizzlies have a decision to make. Brian, you know what I was thinking this weekend? I was thinking that my bet with McMahon is taking some hits because Memphis has had all these injuries and Sacramento, which I picked over Philly in the windspool, not looking

like a smart pick. I was going back and forth on Sacramento and Philly. and well I know that Sacramento's not looking great on a variety levels now de Monta Subonis is hurt Keegan Murray's hurt and McMahon is sitting here after he whined about the over-under and I gave him a couple wins well it's looking looking tougher for me out of the gate than it was a couple a week or so ago unfortunately I whined to get it lower and I'll be whining and dining on your dine baby we'll see we'll see one way to go they'll pick it up that's right that's right that's right Just when we're in Toronto with the finals, and it'll be great.

We're in Toronto for the finals. It'll just be like it wiped away. That's right. You mentioned, you mentioned Kagan Murray. I think since we did our last pod, Kegan Murray landed a contract extension. And an injury. I think he had the injury already. The injury and the extension were before Friday's pod, but we never really talked about it.

One thing that happened since then is the modus subonis is going to miss the opener with his own hamstring injury. Yeah, Sabonis hurt his hamstring. Does 140 over five years seem a bit rich for Keegan Murray? So, you know, this has been funny. So when the time we do our next podcast, we'll pass the deadline for rookie extensions. The deadline is the deadline for people that don't know for rookie guys on rookie scale contracts and for veterans with multiple years left on their deal is tonight. The pod's running Monday, Monday night at 6 p.m. Eastern time.

And I'm sure there will be some, but this Sacramento deal. deal with with kegan murray has been an interesting one because so the average for that is 28 million a year and there's some teams that are you know fully locked it you know they're just absolutely there's all these meetings and all these back and forth this happens every year there's this this tense weekend that happens right before the start of the season um a couple of the scouts who were in for the DeBancid game this week where, you know, hey, do you know what so-and-so is offering? You know, hey, well, yeah, no, no, no. I am here you're offering this.

No, that's not right. But it's close, it's close, you know. But, you know, we have a walk away. We have a walk away. Anyway, it's funny, the Keegan thing, because, like, there's some agents that are like, man, like, Kegan gets 28 a year. like I don't think anybody's getting more than that you know there was some guys who wanted 30 like man like that really establishes a cap I'm not sure we're going to be able to get our guy more than that um you know

all the numbers are coming down now like so and so might only get 22 a year because there's a bunch of these guys um you know shadden sharp uh Christian brown uh dyson daniels who am i forgetting bontemps tar isin those are the four guys most likely to get extensions done between now and all of those guys are probably going to get somewhere between 20 a year and and kegan murray's 28 i would be surprised if any of them get more than 28 but maybe some of them nobody's getting more than 28 i'd be surprised if any of them get more in 25 but well we'll see by the time this point is that that'll be known probably but the point is that that this was the caper of the range of those guys right so you know there you know there's agents going man i just you know this

lowers the whole market a little bit. And you got teams going, oh, I can't believe they gave him 28. And I think you guys pointed this out in your Romo-Witton notebook on Friday that the Jibari-Smith Jr. deals aging pretty well already for the Rockets. And it hadn't even kicked in yet. Yeah, I mean, and that I think could end up being a backstop for a bunch of these negotiations to sue. Javieri signed for five years, $120 million back in July. The kind of deal that usually gets done now is interesting that it got done by Raffel Stone then. I thought the Kiggen-Murie deal was pretty good. There are not a lot of six, eight guys who are legitimate two-way players on the wing. And Kiga-Murie's a very good shooter. He's a guy that gets up six, seven, three is a

game, and I think has the potential to do a little bit more. If he had the ball in his hands more, obviously he's been on these Kings teams, or he's been the third. or fourth or fifth option a lot of the time for them. So I think that deal will age nicely. He also typically never miss his time. He's never, he's only missed, he's never missed more than

six games in a season. Right. Now he's got this fluke thumb injury, obviously, so he's missing some time. But I, like, he's clearly a higher pedigree player than all these other guys who are up for extensions right now. And, like, I thought that deal ultimately

was a pretty solid. Look, well, here's the thing. This is, you know, this is our rule. If you had to trade it tomorrow, could you trade it? Oh, yes. 1,000 percent. You say he's a two-way player. I hear what you're saying.

I'm just going to point out. He's averaged 13.3 points per game in his career. And it was 12.4 last year. And for a guy who's known as a shooter, his three-point percentage has dropped each year. That's true. 41, 36, 34. That is true. But he's a guy.

He's a guy that's funky fit because he's on a King's team where there's a whole lot of guys who need the ball and not a whole lot who pass the ball. But he's a quality on ball defender at 6-8 who can guard multiple positions and he's a guy that teams are afraid of shooting the ball. He is 100% a threat from the three-point line. Obviously, it'd be good for him to get his percentage back up this year when he gets back. But that I think he's a very tradable player. and I think I think that's a good contract for everybody. It's good for him to lock in money. This is a solid deal for the Kings.

And I think for the other teams that are negotiating, it was a good backstop because he, I think, is clearly seen as a higher level, higher level player than all these other guys who are negotiating, which is why they're all probably going to end up somewhere between 20 and 25 if they sign over the next 48 hours or so. Kings signed another player to a $3 million contract. 3.6. Who would that be? Number 18. Somebody called him a journey mail.

Yeah, number 18. Yeah, number 18 season. He's number 18. That's right. Yeah. I think it's only about his 10th team, though. You know what? The crazy thing is, I think you can maybe make an argument rush should start right now for the games. Over your future Hall of Fame or Dennis Schrooter? No, I think with Dennis Schrooter, because he, if you look at, I mean, I guess you could have them, you certainly, I think it's quite likely it comes off the bench. But with no Keegan Murray, they don't really have a lot of size. I think they started Dario Sarich in their last preseason game at the four.

Russ is going to rebound and he's obviously physical and he's an okay on ball defender. He gets into his guy. He loses guys, as we know, when he's off the ball. But I think with Keegan Murray and De Bonas Sabonis out, you could make an argument to start him. But by the way, like with Keegan Murray and Debona Sabonis out, again, to go back to my earlier comment about my Spurs bet, not an ideal way for the Kings who already had a strange off season to start this season. And between them and Memphis. If they do that, they'd be starting two Hall of Fame guards.

Well, and the Hall of Fame are on the wing, or at the four and DeMarre Rosen. DeMarda Rosen, it's true. But again, it's a lot of guys who need. I think all three of them are getting in. I do, too. Tim wasn't being facetious. Yeah. You put the, yeah, seriously.

But if you put the three of them on the floor together, especially with Sabone, it's like, God, the space is like, oh, my goodness. Yeah. It's like 19-18-stitch team. It's a really strange team. We just have talked so much about, you know, we did our West Tears pod the last time we did. And we're like, you know, grappling with each other over, you know, where to put these teams. And these teams are all like, you know, you're an injury away from being in trouble. I realize, but these teams are all, we're having trouble ranking them because, you know, even the Lakers, we're having trouble.

we're figuring out where to put the Lakers, they're potentially starting, you know, they're going to start two Hall of Famers when LeBron gets healthy. And, you know, I don't, Austrians could make the All-Star team this year.

Good. And we're, and we're... Austin Riez will not make the All-Star team. Okay, he could make the All-Star team. If he put the one day, he's going to get the LA boost to.

Well, no, but here's the thing. Here's the thing. This is a, this is a thing, right? With these new rules for the All-Star game, it's going to kill a guy like Austin Reeves, honestly. No. Because there's only 16 Americans that can make the team.

Yeah, but if it was 12 and 12, it would kill them. But 16's about where the numbers were anyway. Let's see how many made it. I'm saying. I'm saying Austin Reeves, like the L.A. boost isn't necessarily going to come into play when you're just basically ranking the 16 best American players. If Jackson Hayes gets his Slovenian. Passport? Does he count as American or an international player? How does this international?

How do these things work? If you got a passport, you're international. I don't think it's necessarily going to come into play for All-Star Games. I'm just inquiring. Also, with the Thompson Twins. It's one of many reasons why I just think this. 17 Americans made it last year. Okay. So it's roughly, you know, pretty close to, I, when they start talking about this whole thing, if it was 12 and 12, well, what do we do with Carl Towns? Are we Carl, are we calling Carl Towns and American? Are we called it? And maybe that's a good, that's a good question.

Carl, I think will, I bet, I bet if we call his agent, she'll be saying, Carl plays for the Dominican Republic. Well, he does. He's an internet. No, I know. I'd say he should be an international player. I would say he is an international player for them. I forgot to count.

I miss count. But either way, I just, it's, I, I can't, I'm already dreading the discussions about the All-Star rosters in January when it's like, oh, we have to do a quota system to figure out who is going to make the, the, the team for the quote-unquote, writer-cup style format. It's taking something very simple and making it really complicated. No kidding. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But yes, Austin could have a very good year.

What are we counting? Real talk. What are we counting Amen Thompson as? I mean, like, you might want to ask that question if he's going to plan on declaring. Maybe, maybe, maybe that's why, maybe that's why this is coming from. Listen, well, let's, let's, Mr. Texas, you can say on that. You can say, well, it's, you know, where were they born? Okay.

Then Carrier Irving's international. Also, by the way, just to flip this the other way, right? Every year, the top four or five of the top MVP candidates are international players. Yeah, there's several more brave for sure. Well, right, but like last year, Luca didn't play in the All-Star game. So like, you know, like we could be looking at a scenario where we're having a quota system on the other end of it. It's just, it's completely insane that we're doing this. It's completely insane.

Well, again, it depends on a couple of things. Like, where are you putting Carl Towns? Where are you putting Amin Thompson, who might make the All-Star team this year? We'll see. Just crazy. Speaking of international stars, Shaggildoose Alexander, I believe, will be on the All-Star roster, and he is a Canadian. Safe bet. I believe you're headed up, I-35.

I'm going to just take a little leap over the Red River, up and down. Man's got a back-to-back to open the season. I do. Mike Wright both. Mike Wright and Marks. You can be with me on both ends, too. We're triple-cutting both those games. Wow.

Love it. Talking about KD and the Rockets and OKC for Ring Night and then Cooper Flagg making his debut against Wimby and Spurs in Dallas 24 hours later. Should be a fun couple games. For sure. By the way, did you guys see the... Victor Wimbunyama step through, I guess what we call it a step through or jump stop. I dropped it in the chat last night, bro. And what did you say when I dropped it in?

Yeah, I know. It's sort of talking to the audience. I know, but what did you say when, what did you say when I dropped it in the chat? What was your response? I said it was legal. It was one word. Legal. Legal.

And he's at 18 feet and steps through into a layup, which is ridiculous. Although I'll say this. It is ridiculous. I've seen Shea, because Shea is a master of the pump fake pivot game. I have seen Shea go into what looks like a baseline, like a little 12, 15 foot baseline turnaround. Pump fake step through into a layup at 6'6. So Wimby's doing this at 7 foot whatever. But I mean, the guy was, you know, Mike Wright had the story about his summer, like all the stuff for the monks.

and China got a lot of attention but this dude went and worked with Akeem. Yeah. And you see it. Yeah, well, I never saw a team do that. I saw a team do a lot of stuff. I did not see. Jackson, do you remember a guy named

Akeem, Elisho on? Oh, man, God, I felt so old when Jackson didn't know who Eric MacGap was. That was a rough, that was a rough moment. So anyway, Tuesday night, you'll be there at Ring Night. Ring Night is always special. Jalen Williams Probably not playing

But they'll be They'll be loaded You know the Thunder have just been installed As the favorites And we haven't spent much time talking about them But you know I don't know if you heard But they're still pretty good

And they start their title defense on Tuesday And you know They haven't That I have seen You know talked much about you know, there's some people that have, you know, felt that, you know, they underappreciated them last year and they haven't leaned on that. But I would say there are plenty of, there are more people doubting them this year than there should be. I would say that.

But here's the deal. You know, Sam Presti has his sit down with the media before training camp every year. And he really, shockingly, puts a ton of thought into that. And there are these marathon sessions, but he has messages that he clearly wants to get across. Remember, we've had a lot of fun in the last couple of years. We haven't finished our breakfast yet. You know, and then they've done a lot of eating since then. And even a little bit of drinking last year.

Very little bit. For the first time for very little bit. The most little bit. That was the driest title celebration. That said, it was. great to see they've had some low moments in that franchise losing players having bad luck most of those guys have been around for a really long time to put it together yeah it was it was it was a very it was great to see a lot of people who worked really hard satisfied but it was a very

dry yeah a dry celebration it's hard to have a championship hangover if you don't get drunk and i don't think uh literally or metaphorically that that is spoken from a man who knows about hangovers. I don't think literally metaphorically that the Thunder got drunk on their championship. But Presti's, there's five words that I really took, five words, two separate phrases that I really took from his marathon sit down this month. Chasing improvement that I think he said it multiple times. Chasing improvement is what he wants them doing this year. Not defending a championship, chasing improvement, which is just as boring as hell, but basically the same type of approach mentality that they took to get to that point, doesn't want it to change.

And then this is a great one. This is a Presti one. Builders, not guardians. Yes. Oh, my gosh. We're building this year team. We're not guarding last year's championship. I mean, that's-

I could see Sam. I could see Sam. I did not watch the presser. I need to go back and look at it at some point. I mean, we're having a little bit of laugh. I can hear Sam saying that line in my head. We're having a little bit of laugh with it,

but like these Presti, like he probably, I'm having no laughs. I can literally hear Sam, that's like the breakfast. Like that's a, they have prototypical Sam line. They have the best culture in the league.

I wrote a story about kind of their Boy Scout buying the boring culture last year. You can say they're, you know, call it program by Presti, whatever. They buy into the stuff that helps them improve on a daily basis. They buy into the stuff that allows them to be the youngest championship team in 50 years. Presti had another line. I think it was, I don't say last year or the year before, but he said there's no silver platters in Oklahoma. Yes, yes.

Which is, you know, that was their thing. You know what he said this year? You know, our colleague, our ex-colleague, David Thorpe, who was with us for about a decade, basketball skills coach. David Thorpe wrote a book called Basketball is Jazz. Also, a old line Holger Geshwinder used to use. Dirk's guru. Oh, Holger used David Thorpe?

No, use basketball. No, the line. Basketball is jazz. Yeah, basketball is jazz. The concept of the way jazz bands play, which is sort of a combination. of I hope I'm getting this right. If I'm not, I'll be, I'll hear from coach. It's a combination of individual, you know,

going off on your own, following a script, but going with a flow, playing as a group, freelancing, you know, the concept of a jazz band. Who knows that better than fame jazz rapper, Sam Presti? Right. That's right. That was a Pablo Torre thing. Anyway, this year, Sam said basketball,

is poker because he says some people say that basketball is chess but that's not true in the NBA because in chess everybody gets the same pieces whereas in the NBA everybody has to play the hand that they're dealt differently

and that is absolutely incredibly well said and the thunder have the reason the reason why Sam has been played Bill Fish for a while and they drew a nice one yeah there's a reason why Sam has helm that franchise in a way few people have for the last 20 years because he

seasonally going to weigh a few people have. But you know what? Your culture is as good as your superstar. And their culture with Shea is a lot different than their culture with Ross. Well, and look, Sam, Sam would be the first one to say that, right? Like, I mean, he was, I mean, his formative days were in San Antonio with Tim Duncan.

And, like, you look at Tim Duncan with the Spurs. You look at Steph with the Warriors. You look at, you know, Dirk with the Mavs. You look at Michael Jordan with the Bull. Like, you go back through history. like the best players are the ones who set the tone. And Sam can get up there and say whatever he wants. And he has said the same thing to all of us and would say it to anybody else.

Like it doesn't matter if your star player isn't embodying what you're trying to do and delivering it to the players and embodying it on the court and living it every day. And Shea obviously does that 365 day basis. And it's why the thunder are in the position they're in. But to me, like, the, you know, the builder's not the guardians thing. Like that, that is a very Samism. Like the, we haven't finished our breakfast yet. But I do think chasing improvement, I think, is the way to look at their season in that they won 68 games last year with one of the youngest teams to ever win a title when they had a lot of injuries throughout the year.

Although they were healthy in the playoffs, they had, as you repeatedly pointed out, their two centers missed combined well over. half the season. And all these guys should get better. Like, they should be better this year. They should be a team that is winning over 65 games again. They should, frankly, win close to 70 games. Like, they should be as good or better than they were last year. And, like, if they settle back to 57, 58 wins, frankly, I think that will be a

disappointing regular season, assuming reasonable health for them. Because they, like, I see people picking Denver in Houston. and, you know, maybe the calves or the Knicks can go toe to toe with them. Like, I think all of that is crazy. The Thunder dominated the league last year. Yes, they had the seven-game series with Indiana and Denver where they kicked away a couple games and those series went long. But wire to wire, they were the best team in the league.

And to me, they should come into this season, despite every, you know, every attempt by Sam and the Thunder to say otherwise, as the prohibitive. massive favorites. And to me, there's only one acceptable outcome for them, which is to finally be the first team to win a title in back-to-back years since the Warriors with Durant in 17 and 18. Like, unless they have injuries, they should beat everybody. They should win again. And by the way, you mentioned those seven-game series. I was up there for a preseason game to work on a story that will come out. I think mid-November is we're scheduled. But anyways, I'm talking to guys about this and multiple guys, Shea Caruso, I think a couple of other guys

brought up, hey, it ain't like we were, you know, the 2001 Lakers and just cruised to the championship. Like we got taken to seven games twice. Like we're crazy if we don't think there are avenues for improvement. But it's funny because like I asked Dagonal like, okay, 68 wins, a championship. What are you looking to improve? and it can't be such a daggonaut okay C type of answer we've got to be open-minded

got to take the feedback from each game you know I mean but I can and I can hear Mark saying that too like we laugh about it he's not they're not like BSing like they believe no they live all this stuff well I mean yes and no they are they are they are there is some BS like when but they fall

through on a daily basis with I know they do I just let me have a little fun with Mark Like when Mark got asked before the Thunder Mavs game for some thoughts on Cooper Flag and essentially said, yeah, I've never seen him play before. I've got to watch tonight and then I have a better sense of it. Or when I asked him about, okay, hey, it was just me and him. He kind of evaded a question in the group about J. Dub's timeline. And I was like, optimistic about the opener? And he gave me some, you know, nothing answer.

And then he goes, I've been working here for 12 years. Come on. Exactly right. That is exactly right. Yes, that's right. Speaking of jazz, why they're great. I believe that Tuesday night,

when the, when the thunder get their banner, we'll be hearing some symphonic rock. Oh, round ball rock. So we welcome our colleagues at NBC back, and which will be, they'll be broadcasting that game.

And we also welcome our new teammates. Bontemps is being hauled away at long. I am, yeah, clearly. Welcome our new teammates with Inside the NBA, which will be debuting with us on ESPN on Wednesday. And with that, we begin a season. My 23rd, McMahon? I don't know, because I was like football and basketball for a while.

Just count them all. Count them all. It's been like, I think 18, 19, something like that. 14 for me. 14. That did count. Jackson was it like five? I don't know. I mean, Jackson's, I can't hear from Jackson again after this Eric McCann thing.

It just killed me. Well, Jackson's going to the Chiefs game on Sundays. So we let him get some sleep, get him ready for that. He's a closet chiefs fan for reasons that we can't discuss. He's got a buddy there. Jackson's like me. If it's free, if it's free, it's for me. He learned that from watching you.

I don't think I'm getting that. I think I just fell in a lot. I think you should get him. I know you get him for Christmas. A throwback Eric Metcalf number 21 in Longhoun's jersey. I'll look for him to come down in Austin. All right. Thank you to McMahon.

Thank you to Bontemps. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you for watching listening to The Hoop Collective. Hey, we'll talk to you after the NBA season kicks off next week. Adios amigos.