Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - A Unique Situation For 76ers + What Do Teams Who Missed Out On LeBron Do Now?

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Vince Goodwill to explain why LeBron James joining the 76ers is truly a one of a kind situation and break down who will need to sacrifice the most in order to make it work in Philadelphia. Then, we discuss if Steph Curry could have a future outside of Golden State now that the Warriors have missed out on LeBron before talking about what the other teams who missed out on LeBron can do from here. Finally, we illustrate how the Thunder put the Nuggets in a difficult position and if Jokic may not stay in Denver forever. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome the Who Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA. Joining us from Los Angeles, California, where he's there doing NBA today this week. And wearing a Canadian tuxedo is Vince Goodwell. Airplanes are a little cool for me, so I keep warm. What up, though, Wendy? What up, though, McMan? What up, Vince?

Hey, I am a big believer in the hoodie all year round on the airplane, and I've got thin hoodies now that I can wear all year round. And that guttural, hmm, you know very well coming from Dallas, is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners? I actually got a couple new thin hoodies from my daughters for Father's Day. They are definitely the spring and summer airplane wear, no doubt about that. And hop on an airplane again tomorrow. Looking forward to wearing one of those.

All right. We'll take free ones. That's what he's basically saying. Okay. So, I've had several days to process LeBron James to Philly. And I'm going to tell you, I feel like, you know, there were certain things when I was growing up in my father or I was reading about things that happened in the sports world. And I just didn't understand him. I'd be like, wait a minute.

Why did this player do this? Why did this coach do this? And I feel like down the line, people are going to study the career of LeBron James and they're going to say, why did he go to Philly? And I think we have to acknowledge that this whole thing is a bit outrageous. Okay, so I've had a couple of days to process LeBron to the Sixers. And I feel like it's something that people who look back in the future, maybe people who are too young to know what's going on or people aren't even born yet, they'll be like, what?

How did that happen? And I think we have to embrace that this whole situation is a bit outrageous. You know, we're in it and we're analyzing it by day or whatever and that it happens and you're supposed to react. But you take a step back. this is a pretty outrageous situation. And it's because it's a bit of an outrageous one-off, right? You know, the idea that a player, 24 years into his career,

would have this situation and that he would be willing to play for a low amount of money. We've never seen anything like it. So everything that happens around it is a bit outside the normal way we would look at things. And so I'm just going to embrace that it's outrageous. and I'm going to try to keep that going into the season, thence, because I know you'll probably be in Philly quite a bit. Like, I don't know if it'll work because I think everyone's like, you know, they're asking questions about legacy and how will they all work?

Like, well, Jalen Brown do this. Will Joel and B.D. Edgecom? Like, all those are reasonable, but I think we have to understand that this is kind of ridiculous and we'll just see how this ridiculous ends up playing out. It's unusual. and as someone who is going to be playing rock paper scissors with some of the other ESPN writers in New York City for the honors of going on the Ysela train to get up and down to Philly or on particular days, I wouldn't have predicted this outcome.

Like even after watching the 76ers get waxed by the Knicks in the second round, I think of all the changes that have happened with that franchise alone, like getting off of Paul George and getting J.man Brown. in most off seasons, that is the move of the offseason, let alone getting a generational historic play. I think I've read something, which of course, this makes all the sense in the world where there's never been a team that acquired two finals MVPs in the same offseason.

This is all ridiculous, but it is all fascinating. Like I do want to see this. I think Philly fan has Wendy and McMahon taking a place of Nick Fan as being the object of ire for me right now because Philly fan thinks that, yeah, I know quite crazy, right? Philly fan went back to first take when like two weeks ago when I said that Philly doesn't seem like a great fit compared to the other options. Oh, you hate Philly? No, I just didn't think it was, it kind of felt ridiculous, all things consider. But now that we're here, I'm as fascinated as anybody to watch how year 24, 25 plays out, the future of just.

Elin B, how Jalen Brown functions, all this stuff, the Nick nurse of it all. Like, this is one of the more fascinating stories we've come across in some time. And even if I didn't think LeBron was necessarily a great fit there, doesn't mean I'm not anxious to see how it all plays out. Yeah, and listen, I've said multiple times, and maybe I'm getting hammered online and I'm just oblivious to it, which is fine by me. But I said multiple times, I didn't think Philly was a great fit for LeBron, not the other way around. Because look, LeBron, if LeBron wants, LeBron can definitely shift into a facilitator, distributor, initiator, table setter type of guy.

But look, LeBron was not thrilled with being the third option in L.A. I mean, he said it himself at the end of the season, he wanted to retire. And it kind of took some time to get past that. Do we believe that, though? Well, I'm, you know, I'll take the rest of it. risk of taking him at his word there, but I do believe he was not thrilled being the third option. And I don't know that he's not the third or fourth option in Philly. So again,

very curious to see how they figure that fit out. And it's going to be a season long process to figure that. I'm very curious to see how Jalen Brown figures it out. In my view, this is way more of a Jalen Brown story than a LeBron story. I mean, LeBron's had like 200-something teammates in his career. He has a, you know, he's been on how many teams where they've totally redone the roster? Has that happened four or five times in his career? Every time he's changed teams, for one. Sometimes, like, remember in L.A.?

Like they did that roster the first year. They were like, nope, threw it all out the window and redid it. Like, it's, I mean, he can handle that. Like, you know, obviously his skill level is a little bit diminished because of his age. But I'm not worried about LeBron fitting in and people are like, what about LeBron is the third option for? How do we know he's going to be the third or fourth option? I haven't seen him play.

What if he's the first option? Then I would say, what's Tyrese Maxie doing? Well, fine. I would say how Jan and Brown feel about that. I would say, what's Joelle and Bede doing? Well, I know how Tyrese Maxie is going to play because he's only one way he can play. I know how Joe L. Embed is going to play because generally Joe L. and Bid's going to play how he can play.

There is a whole range of ways that LeBron can play, and there's a little bit. lot of different ways he can be fine with. There's also a whole range of ways that Jalen Brown can play. I'm not sure how, oh, of course there is. He plays multiple positions. He plays off the ball. He plays on the ball. You know, absolutely.

Like, the way he played this last season was completely different than the way he played the year before. So my thing is, where is he at? He didn't choose this. LeBron chose this. Tyrese Maxie and Embed were talking to LeBron on the phone, trying to talk him into it. Jalen Brown didn't choose this.

This was... put onto Jalen Brown. And so to me, this season, especially the early going, is very much a something I'm going to be watching how Jalen handles. I'm going to be paying attention to his interviews, even if that's not going to be with what the overall consensus is going to be. That's an interesting point, Wendy, because when I look at Philly, the person who I'm watching more than Jalen Brown for whatever reason, I understand, I understand your answer, more than even LeBron James. I'm going to be watching Joel Embed because he's the guy who, has a regular season MVP to his record, but doesn't have a conference finals to his record.

He's the guy that's played a grand total of 58 games in the last two years. Like, he's the guy that has been there through all these different iterations of a Philadelphia 76thor built around him, James Harden, Ben Simmons, Jimmy Butler, like all those players have been built to augment him. Where does it fit now? Like, how much pressure is on him? to stay on the floor, to stay in shape, to be defensively. I think he can be defensively.

I don't know if he can be that anymore. I don't know if he can be that vortex because his movement, if you saw that second round series against the Knicks, they ran everything at him and exploited him. How does that work now? And if things go wrong, you think LeBron's going to care about getting blamed by Philly fans that he has no sweat equity in? Jalen Brown, like you said, didn't choose this situation.

he's got a championship, it's going to fall at the feet of Joe L&B. That's the player I'm watching to see how he handles all this. I'm fascinated to see how he handles it, but Philadelphia basically has to come up with a way to play that doesn't include Joel and B because you cannot count on him being on the floor. You know, we talked about the other day, you've got four guys who excel at playing high-tempo basketball. You've got four of the top 14 fast break scores in the NBA.

including one and two in the starting lineup. And then you have Joel Embed, who is the epitome of kind of a, at this point in his career, a plodding, you know, slow down. I really think there's going to be a lot of possessions where Embedde doesn't cross half court. You know, I really think that they're going to play a style

and then, you know, in the half court he'll be involved. But, yeah, but to me, the thing, there's all the egos are going to be very interesting. Because, again, you've already dealt with the Embed-Mexy thing where they get along well, but it's Embed's franchise, it's become Maxie's team. Now you've got Jayden Brown. He made it clear. He loves being 1A.

And he comes in with a boulder on his shoulder because of the way that, quite frankly, he just got dumped in his mind, and I don't blame him, disrespected by the Celtics on the way out the door, two years removed from winning a finals MVP and a championship there. you know, but if he comes in with the priority of like this revenge tour, how does that work with all these other? And we haven't even mentioned DJ Edgecom, by the way. How many, like, I don't even know if I care about what MB does the first five months of the season.

I mean, I obviously know that you have to get some reps with them, but I honestly, like, I don't care. Like, I don't care what MB looks like in November, December, January, February. Like, he's out, he's, they need him for really important games in the playoffs. Like, we'll see it in the spring. Like, seriously. Like, I, I, obviously, that's not the way it's going to go. They, in Bid will be excited to play. I mean, as far as I know he's healthy, you know,

they'll want to, you know, just manage all of that and try to get some sort of rhythm. But that's the thing, I don't care how LeBron plays. I don't care how Embed plays until we get to April. That's very Darry, of you just thinking that you can kind of manage your way through the regular season, and then microwave chemistry when the playoffs roll around. That worked out great for him a couple years ago. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think this whole situation is outrageous.

It's outrageous. It's unprecedented, but so was LeBron. Would you consider Tyrese Maxie and Alpha? Yes, he's the best player on their team probably. Is Edgecom and Alpha? I mean, at heart. Not the way he plays. An emerging one, yeah.

Okay. And Beed sure as hell is. Jalen Brown sure is hell is. LeBron is one of the Supreme Alphas. The idea of having five alphas is preposterous. And then you think about the idea. That's why Nick Nurse. Then you think about the idea of having four guys who thrive playing in transition.

Like I think Jalen, Hedgham, LeBron, and Maxi all ranked the top 15 in transition scoring last year. I wonder where Embed ranked I'm at. Playing with the most plotting, one of the most plotting centers. It's outrageous. You know, I was looking at Dean Oliver, our colleague at ESPN, and he tweeted out the usage rates of those five guys. class season. They don't add up to 100. I know that it's, I'm aware that they all were not together.

And, you know, but their combined usage rates last year were 142 out of 100. And one of the things that the Celtics felt about Jatham Brown was his style of play was way too much. My turn, his turn. So I'm saying this whole thing is outrhic. I mean, like, I'm not saying this in like a critical way. I'm saying this in a fascinated way. You can't have my turn, his turn. Well, now it's his turn.

Then his turn, like, there's got to, again, again, that's a challenge for Nick Nurse. There's got to be chemistry developed. There's got to be a cohesive, you know, system style put in place. And, again, I do think a lot of it is on J.M. Brown, not to have the mentality that I have to be on A. a lot of it's on in B to understand that the style is not going to be built around him because he's the exception. He understands that he's a smart player. Okay, to embrace then. There's a difference between understanding and embracing.

And then a lot of it's on LeBron to shift into, first and foremost, the facilitator. And he's one of the best pastors and one of the best basketball brains in the history of the league. It's nothing he's not capable of doing. Well, it took LeBron, Luca, and Austin Reeves all calendar year. Would you say that's fair, McMahon? It took him a calendar year to figure it out. And they had one spectacular month, and that was the month when it became very clear the role definition, where LeBron was a distant third. And he was awesome in that role.

Like the efficiency was off the sharp. But at the same time, it doesn't matter if Embedits playing great in December. But he's got to play. Here's the thing, Wendy, you've got to develop, especially on a team like this. M.B. can't be in and out of the lineup because he is such a big. But he's going to be. He's couldn't be. Of course he's going to be. I'm with you. I understand that. I'm not disagreeing with you.

But when LeBron says, I want to bring a championship to Philadelphia, okay, fine, the expectations are there. So you're saying against everything that we know about the recent NBA history is that you've got to have some continuity. You can't have players be in and out of the lineup and then expect to turn it on magically for April, May, and June. It's not just outrageous. they're bucking history with the audacity of the attempt here. Like that's what is exciting to me about this. It's just the sheer audacity of Joel Embedde is an availability issue. Where's Jalen Brown fitting in this?

Tyrese is the guy actually don't worry about because I think he can play off the ball. He's one of the best off the ball scores in the league. I got no problem with that. And we can talk about these guys being scores in transition. who's going to get stops? Who's going to sacrifice and say, you know what, I can get on on this break, but I need to get down here and get this rebound because if Joelle and Bid is out there, there's no guarantee that he's going to be able to cover all the space.

Like from a basketball standpoint, this is all very fascinating to me. That's why I point at Nick Nurse. How's he going to handle this? You know, I do think of all the teams I can compare it to, It's most comparable to the 2003-4 Lakers where Kobe and Shaq were there, Devin George, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, that group. And they brought in Gary Payton, Carl Malone. By the way, do you know, I went back and looked, you're going to take enormous sums of money off of me. Do you know that Horace Grant was on that team?

Wow. Yeah, Horace Grant, A.C. Green, they were. Did you know Byron Russell was on that team? I think so like you want to talk about because you know because now they're bringing in cantavius called well pope and who knows what else and so I went I went and looked so Shaq had like a calf injury that year or something and I think Kobe had like ankle issues but Kobe played 65 games Shaq played 67 Peyton played all 82 wow you know at age 35 Carl Malone played 42 at age 40 that he had a knee his knee was really bothering And one before he hurt his knee. Like that thing, that's what people forget. That train was actually rolling and then Carl heard his knee. Like, you will never hear me vouch for Carl Malone in any way, shape, or form for a bunch of reasons.

But that team was rolling until he got hurt. And then when he got hurt, that's when everything started to pile up. You know, Kobe's court dates. I think Kobe was coming off of knee surgery that offseason, which kind of started all of this other stuff. You know what I mean? So that's, you know, just to kind of close the loop. But yeah, a lot of injuries and what happened? They managed to get to the finals and then they...

I was going to say, they still went to the finals. They didn't have a good showing when they got there, but they got to the finals. Did you remember that Byron Russell played... I said Byron. It's Brian Russell. I always get that wrong. Brian Russell, yes. Would you believe me if I told you he played 72 games for that team? I'm looking at it now, so I believe you, but I did not.

remember. Would you believe it if I said, if I said Stanislav Medvedenko started 38 games for that team? I do. I do remember that part. So anyway, I will just tell you, by the way, do you want to hear the story about how Derek Fisher almost sent me to the hospital? Yes. I guess this is SOFI. Get your money right. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. My name is Peter Parker, but I'm also Spider-Man. This Thursday, we're faced with a threat. That can be anyone. The world may have forgotten Peter Parker. I'm just a neighbor, friendly neighbor. But he hasn't forgotten them.

Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing. That's my responsibility. Dr. Banner? I didn't know you could get that big. Spider-Man, brand-new day in theaters Thursday. The Cavs, that was LeBron's rookie season, my first year on the beat, the cows played the Lakers twice in the preseason. once in L.A. on national television, major game, LeBron versus Kobe on national television.

I think Kobe heard his ankle. And then they played them a few days later in Bakersfield, California on a Sunday night. And this was different times back then, guys, the starters played in the preseason games. Oh, okay. And in Bakersfield, California, and this is also a different time. The media sat on the baseline, you know, on the court. So it was my only time I've ever been in Bakersfield. There's a play in the first half.

Derek Fisher, I guess, trying to save a ball going out of bounds, comes flying into press row and comes over the table. And his shoe absolutely wallops me right in the eye. Like, bam, knocks my chair over and I go down. I don't remember if I hit my head on the floor. but I was literally woozy, like for 10 minutes. Like I probably needed medical attention. I got knocked on the floor. Mike Bresgenahan, who's now on Spectrum Sports,

he was there covering for the LA Times. He helped me up, dusted me off, you know, and I was like woozy. Like the lights were going. I had no idea what was happening. I just remember that that was the night. It was like the second to last preseason game, and that was the night where Paul Silas said,

screw it. We don't have any point. card, LeBron's going to play point card. So it's kind of like a minor significant story that they just decide the Brown was going to be a point card. And I just remember sitting there like the room was literally spinning. I was just dizzy from getting walloped in the head by Derek Fisher. And like, you're in Bakersfield, California, Shaq is there, Carl Malone is there, Gary Payton, Kobe. I don't think Kobe played in that game because I think he turned his ankle against the, against the Casca players prior. But, you know, all these, you know, apparently Horace Grant was probably there.

no recollection of it. Maybe that's what happened. Maybe I forgot the horse was there because I was knocked at that. That's what it was, Wendy. I was, I got, as I used to say in the old days, Vince, got my bell wrong. You know, when you first said, did any players laugh? No, I don't remember. I mean, I was hanging on for dear life. I had no idea what was going to get smacked in the face with a ball. The late great Robert Trailer. That's what I thought. Yeah. You had some tough times in those baseline seats. I, on the West Coast. Like, you know, I shed blood in those old barns in Seattle and Bakersfield. No, I didn't actually shed blood.

Wendy, when you said I got walloped by Derek Fisher, I'm glad the story ended up here rather than where my mind took me to initially. Yes. You don't strike me as a dirty match. That's all I'm going to say. You don't strike me as one of those types. All right. All right.

So our colleague, Marcus Thompson II, from the athletic, did something very enterprising over the weekend. He went all the way out from his home in Oakland to North Little Rock, Arkansas, where Moses Moody was having a youth camp and Steph Curry was a part of it, which, by the way, how cool is that that Steph Curry went out to Arkansas? I don't know, maybe it does it every year. I just don't remember, but I think it's pretty cool that Steph Curry would take some time out and go all the way to Arkansas to go to his teammates' youth camp. And how cool is it that if you're a kid in Little Rock, you could. go to a camp and have

Steph Curry be there. That's pretty cool. He got an interview with Steph about LeBron's choice. Obviously, the Warriors were one of the possible places. And I want to commend Steph Curry. I think Steph Curry is a quintessential superstar in every way. And I

think his interview that he gave to Marcus Thompson was a really excellent, grounded, level-headed viewpoint of the situation. And here's some of the quotes that he said. In regards to possibly LeBron coming to the warriors, he said, that's why you don't envision anything until it happens. There's lots of moving parts, which of course was true. and in talking about how

this leaves the Warriors, the Warriors have not made many changes to their roster, probably the biggest thing is they drafted Yaxo Leningborg, who was awesome in Summer League, was named the MVP of Summer League. So, like, that's something to get excited about. But, you know, it's certainly not getting people who want the Warriors to, like, get back to the finals that much.

And he just said that, you know, keeping this thing together, as in this Warriors team, and you know that Jimmy Butler got hurt and Moses Moody got hurt and the whole calculus of everything changes. How do you get through their absence and still say at a certain level? And then how does that go into this year? So I'm a realist on that, which is his way of saying, like, I know. There's not a lot of excitement around this team. Nobody thinks that we're going to win. and that's just the reality.

And then I think this is two more things I think from this I want to point out. He said, when he's talking about his hopes for the season, he said you hope that both players, Butler and Moody, come back healthy and that we can play at a level that keeps us relevant and competitive. This is where the warriors are, which Steph Sand. They're in a fight to stay relative. Forget about championship. Like, by the way, this is, he's being real here.

I'm not, I'm applauding this. And then the one thing that he didn't say that I want to point out, you know, Marcus literally wrote the book on Steph Curry. I want to quote Marcus here, not Steph. I want to be very clear here. Marcus is not, he is not without knowledge of the situation, okay? He's one of the best NBA writers we got going. He wants to win.

He wants the best team the Warriors can assemble around him. He wants a chance, a real chance for a deep playoff. front. The longer it takes for him to sign a contract extension, the more you can bet. Curry is using potential free agency as a tool to keep the warriors pushing towards that end. Now, that is interesting, McMahon, because Steph expressed at the end of the season that he was ready to sit, he was not ready to call it in. Now, he can't sign a contract extension until the end of August. It's not like this is something that you know, that he's like delaying it today.

And maybe he'll sign the contract extension on August 29th. But for Marcus to bring this up, I think it's something that we should pay attention to. Steph can be a free agent after this upcoming season if he wants. He's 38 years old, but I just want to point that out. Yeah. And listen, do $62.6 million this year that makes him one of the highest paid players in the league, you know, is an extension. at or more than that number. If it is, it's a lifetime achievement award.

Because the Warriors aren't going to be winning with Steph Curry making $60 plus million a year. He's still playing an awfully high level, but there's not going to be. And quite frankly, the idea that the Warriors are going, or even a move, even a big move away from being a contender, it's not an idea that's based in reality. The reality is they won a 9-10 playing game last year and celebrated like it was a monumental accomplishment.

And that was a recognition by Steve Kerr, who strongly considered retiring before coming back by Steph Curry, by Draymond Green, that they're not going to have more trips to the mountaintop. but they've got to savor the accomplishments, you know, the moments that they do have. They celebrated a not even a clinching of playoff birth, a 9-10 win, the right, earning them the right to play another playing game in which they got beat and didn't make the playoffs.

But they celebrated that win. It was a hell of a comeback. It was great theater. It was as entertaining as a 9-10 playing game could possibly be. but their celebration there told you everything you need to know about the state of the Warriors with Steph Curry at 38 years old, even though he's still, you know, we can argue a top 15 player or so in the NBA. The question becomes, like Wendy, we've been covering this week. We've been covering this week a long time. Team championship windows in today's NBA don't stay open this long. Like if you started

That's right It's not even close to this long If you even started at 2013 When he lost in the second round To San Antonio and you could see that they were coming Right like and you saw Draymond Green You could see that Steph and Clay Thompson They were coming Mark Jackson was still coaching the team

If you start there And you end in in 2013 2023 when they lose in the second round To LeBron and Anthony Davis And those Lakers in that championship reign That's a 10 year window I need people to understand. That never happens in today's NBA.

Like, LeBron leaves after four years at a place. Like the Kobe Bryant back end of the Lakers went to the finals in 08, and by 2011 they were getting swept in the second round. Like, these things don't happen often. So the question I have for you guys is, Joe Lake up is going to be an easy target for this because to me, he says dumb shit, right? But how much of this do the franchise, does the franchise owe Stefan Curry at this stage?

Because he's playing at a top 10, top 15 level and he's making this amount of money. How much do they owe him to continue to try to put out something? Or is he at the Dirk and Kobe stage where, hey, man, you're just going to sell the arena out and you're just going to have to ride with it? Like, are there conversations that need to be had? But again, owe him, like, owe him what? to find a magic wand? Because I just don't think there's a realistic path for the warriors to put together a team around him. This is going to have a chance to contend for championship.

Well, we didn't think that there was a realistic path for Philly either. I mean, you know, they have some assets. And they're, you know, look, they tried for Janus, couldn't get him. They tried for Jalen Brown, couldn't get him. Tried for Anthony Davis, couldn't get him. Tried for LeBron, couldn't get him. Did they try for Anthony Davis? I think they would have, I mean,

I think they had interest. The Warriors, the Wizard, shut it down. All right. Well, Anthony Davis ain't making them a contender. LeBron James wasn't going to make them a contender. No, I'm just saying, though, I don't think that they're not going to keep trying, you know. I mean, that's the implication here. If they don't keep trying that Steph may just hold back on it.

And what's where is Steph going to go? And listen, if Steph wants to, for example. Well, I mean, where was LeBron going to go? That's what we were saying a year ago. go. I know, but like if Step wants to go, like Charlotte is obviously his hometown, his dad's. I don't want to entertain this topic. This will get aggregated. I'm not looking for that. It's a hypothetical. But like, if he wants to do something like that, fine. I think there's, I think there is great honor. And one, number one, like, Steph's legacy is secure. I don't care

if he never wins another game in his life. Same with the run. I do think there is great honor in a legend of Steph's caliber going. from the starting blocks to the finish line with one franchise. Yeah, does anybody, I mean, I know some people do, but does anybody like criticize Kobe's last four years and the Lakers having no chance to win anything? No, people try to criticize that two-year $50 million contract, which now looks like, you know what I mean?

Like ridiculous what we were saying back then. But I'm with you on this one, Timmy. There is great honor in that. But the problem is Joe Lekub knows that too. Like this whole two timeline garbage that they were trying to pull off. Like that's where all of this sort of stems from is we're trying to plan ahead of Stephen Curry as opposed to, hey man, let's see if we can maximize and make the best of this. Steph is never really threatened to go anywhere and the warriors know that and that's why they've

been able to do the things that they've been doing. If Steph kicked it a completely different way, then we will be having different conversations. I think this is the first sound. of, hey, don't take me for granted here. Like, just because, you know what I mean? I don't know, man. They've never, they've always had the gas down. They, you know, go get, they had a championship team.

They went and got Duran. They go get Jimmy Butler. Like, you know, they tried to get LeBron three years ago. Like, you know. Kaminga, Moody, Wiseman. You know, right. That's the problem with the two timeline is the guys that they drafted, specifically, Wiseman at two.

And then Kaminga at seven, which, whatever you want to say about Kaminga, this might get Wendy's hands dancing, but Steve Kirscher's hell didn't think that he was a star caliber player. So to have those, you know, to have a high lottery pick and a mid-lottery pick and end up with two guys who didn't make it to their, I guess Kamingham Tech for me to do a second contract, you know what I'm saying? Two guys who didn't live up to their draft status, that was the problem.

That and the labeling of the two timelines were the issues, He's not necessarily the plan. Let me ask you this. So, Dremont, as we know, as a free agent, he opted out of the contract. Because this is going to be a brand new contract, Dremond can get a no trade clause. Hmm. Okay. If, you know, in last year, like, there was a moment where Dremond thought that there was a chance he could get traded.

Do you remember that press conference right before the deadline where he, like, had like, a quasi-good-bye? He was checking out real estate in Milwaukee. Well, listen, if the Warriors are not serious about, you know, improving the team and just want to, like, ride out to the end of the thing, they'll give them a no trade clause, right? Just okay, Draymond, we're not going to trade you. Let's just ride it out, right? Just give it to him. But if there's a chance they're going to trade them, even if it's a 0.1% chance, they ain't giving it to them. And by the way, I don't think they will give it to them, nor should they probably, unless he's willing to take some sort of pay cut, which, which,

why would he? You know, honestly, the Warriors clearly can stomach a divorce with Dremont. They went through a pretty messy divorce with Clay Thompson. Steph is the one. I don't think they can stomach that. And so that's where, you know, even the threat of Steph just sniffing around. They can't stomach looking bad. It's a threat. And in the PR battle of Warriors or Steph, Steph is not going to say the wrong thing publicly or intimate the wrong thing publicly. It's all going to be on the franchise to, quote, unquote, do right by him. But what does doing right by Steph Curry mean at this stage? That is the question that we all kind of have at this point.

Because like you said, Wendy, this is the last year of his contract. Free agency, as we know it, does not exist in the NBA. Free agency is dead. Unless you are a mid-level player, A player of Stefan Curry's caliber who can command $60 million or whatever it is is not going to hit free agency. So what happens to prevent said player from hitting free agency? It's one of two things. Player resigns or player gets moved.

Listen, he may sign, I think he has indicated he wants to go for two years, play until 40. He can get $136 million. That deal may happen on August 29th. I am not saying that it will not. I am just saying to you what Marcus Thompson put in there. Well, and the other thing is, we just saw a guy who made $53 million last year signed for the minimum because he just wanted to go wherever he wanted to go and didn't want money to see it. Well, that's not 100% accurate. I mean, he didn't.

What's not? What? He didn't make 53 last year? He didn't sign minimum? He probably could have come to some terms of somewhere else, but he was, he was. If he had made a priority to give more money, he said, that's what I'm saying. And like LeBron, Steph has made more than half billion dollars just in the NBA salary.

And I don't know, who knows how much off the floor, you know, just signed a deal. I forgot what shoe company it was, but just I'm sure there's a lot of money in that one. Leaning. There you go, leaning. You know, could Steph reach a point where he decides, you know what? I want to just pick a destination too. I don't know. I would bet against it, but I'm just reacting to Marcus Thompson,

who knows Steph better than anybody in the medium. Yeah, Steph's obviously got a lot deeper roots in the bay than LeBron did in L.A. That's true. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account.

Always earn high-rength. regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest. Conditions apply. Visit Scotia Bank.com slash H-I-S-A to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Okay, I'm going to go over some of these teams that are now dealing with post-Lebron Chase's life. Start with the Cavs.

Cavs signed Mario Hizonia on Sunday. Zonia, 2015 lottery picks, been playing for the last four years in Madrid. got him for less than $3 million, $6.8. Talk to some of scouts I know who live in Europe, and they said definitely an NBA rotation player at this point, definitely got better. But he doesn't have, the way he was been playing for Madrid was not the way an NBA role player would play.

You know, he stops the ball. So I'm sure he understands or change it. There was some sort of belief that just because, the Cavs signed Hizonia that they wouldn't continue to try to get Jonathan Kaminga. I don't think that's true. I think they'll see Hizonia as a fringe rotation player. I think... Does Kaminga stop the ball?

Once or twice. You guys are brutal. I asked a question. I'm not making it personal. It's not about Kaminga the player. It's about the way the league, the way the fans react to Kamega. That's what gets on my nerves. The calves have to deal with Hardin, and once they deal with Hardin, we'll see if they have much money they have under the aprons.

They can make trades. They could trade Dennis Schrooter. There's trades that exist out there, trade concepts where they could trade Schrooter and save some money, open up their $6 million taxpayer mid-level. They could trade Max Struz all the way off their team and maybe open up the full mid-level. just keep Max Truce. Right. I mean, a two-way wing, I realize he's not a Hall of Famer, but he makes threes and he plays hard on defense, always in the right spot.

He's not a shutdown defender, but who is who are you getting? He was a shutdown defendant. So I think the Cavs, you know, they're sniffing around, seeing what they can do. I think they, I think, you know, the Cominga is going to be faced with the situation where he may have to decide about taking a one-year contract. exception contract versus waiting for a sign and trade, but whatever, strange things happen. Well, if he's in that situation, I think there's another team that missed out on the brawn that might make more sense for him. But so by saying a team that lost out on the bra,

you're not talking about the Lakers then. No, the Timberwolves have a glaring need of power forward. I don't know that they have any interest in Cominga. I just know that they have to consider all potential solutions to fill their need of power. forward. And look, they knew they knew they created this need with a maneuvering that they did to cut money and get

lamella ball. And somebody with the wolves told me, you know, after that trade, they're like, yeah, we went from 48 minutes of outstanding power forward, played a none, you know, and you can argue outstanding, but they had the rotation of of Naz, or of

Julius Randall and of Nas Reid. And now, But like, I think if the season started tomorrow, you've got Jane McDaniels starting at the four, and you're playing three guards with, you know, asking Gobert to probably lead the league in rebounds. All right. Well, that's all well and good. But they are $4 million below the hard cap and already $15 million over the luxury tax. It's going to have to be, like, they've got, they've got the. minimum to try to fill it with. Like, let's just be clear.

I mean, the one thing they could do, they, you know, if they were willing to trade Dante DeVincenzo, they could probably get a power forward for that price number because he's going to miss the year or a big punk almost the year with the Achilles. They don't want to trade him, but. Well, and they don't have, they don't have picks to trade. I shouldn't say picks. They don't have first round picks to trade. Let me see what Bobby says. they have to trade. They have, first off,

they do have one roster spot, I guess. Yeah. They have no tradable firsts, and they have, oh my God,

I don't even know if they have any, you know what? I think they've got, they have two tradable seconds. That's it. You know,

and look, I like Jaden McDaniels a lot. A big part of his value is that he's an elite on-ball defender. So, you know,

you don't want him playing power forward defensively. He also, in part because he's a lot of times guarding the guy who's the primary perimeter weapon, he only averaged 4.2 rebounds per game last year. You know, ants can have to rebound. Lamello's going to have to rebound. And again, Gobert might have to lead the league in rebounds.

What about the Miami Heat, Vince? They miss out on LeBron. And now they're sitting there with a couple of roster spots. Right now they are $1.9 million. below the luxury tax, which is, you know, something for them. But they're hard-capped at the first apron. So while they'll go into the tax, they've got $10.5 million to spend. They've got $9 million they can spend of their mid-level.

They've got the $5.5 million buy annual. That all sounds good. They've got a $5.5 million trade exception. That's actually good stuff to fill out your roster. But like I said, they only got $10.5 million because of the way they did the Yonis trade, they're hard-capped. So they can go above the minimum, but not that much far above the minimum. It's about fit to me. And when you look at that team, the one thing we talked about with Miami is shooting. Like they need shooting around Yonis and Bam and Andrew Wiggins. Like from an

athletic standpoint, he can certainly fit. But we've all said it, not the strongest rebounder, not a great shooter, not someone who's going to tilt the axis of the floor on offense. I don't know if that's a great fit, but it gets to the point where he's going to have to just pick a spot and take a lower salary than clearly than he thought he was going to command in this market. That's always a danger when you go into your unrestricted year, because you take the qualifying offer, which is why nobody does it. Like, you wind up playing a game of musical chairs, and there's no one there. As you said, they need more shooting. And look, Tim Hardaway Jr. was a great addition for them. He's a volume shooter that I think fits well. Bringing back Fontecchio,

I thought was good. Bobby Portis does give them some shooting. But they also, like, they're bigs, as far as their fives, are Portis and Bam and Bam's five-ish. Portis is five-ish. And then, you know, and then they're going to need more. You know, you have heard stuff about Clay Thompson from the, you know, heat beat.

You're saying you don't think Clay is getting bought out. And I don't say that. I just said to me, like, you know, the Mavs aren't going to, I don't think they buy them out as a charitable endeavor, you know, like there's got to be something in it for them, you know? But and then if that's a deal, I would think it's probably a minimum in Miami. Well, it depends. Like I said, they have money to spend.

I mean, Demard de Rosen's another guy because Pat Riley went on Dan Levitard's show and said, we need another playmaker. Of course, he thought it was going to be LeBron. Yeah. I do think the heat thought they had a great chance at it. I mean, DeRosen's the opposite of spacing, though. Yeah. I know.

You're right. I mean, when you go back and listen, again, everything is time and place. But Pat Riley thought he was getting the bra. When he went on that dead limbertoire show, I mean. Well, when he said they got to land the other plane. Yeah. He thought he was getting the brawl. And I wonder what happened.

I wonder what flipped, what changed? Well, I don't think he was told he was getting him. I just think he was very optimistic. And look, Vinci. you know, as time went on, I thought Miami was going to be the place. I got to the place, you know, where I thought it was something more than 50% was, you know, I thought it was going to be Miami. I was surprised when it was Philly. So, and, you know, Rich Paul has said, he's on the record, is saying I thought for a long time, he thought it was going to be Miami. I think Pat Rowley, for a long time, thought it was going to be in Miami, too. So, but Bradley Beals out there, I saw some list of, you know, targets for them like, you know, Beal's health is obviously always a concern, but Beal, I could see Beal being a guy who makes sense for them. A little bit of play in Miami, definitely some shooting for a long time. There's a lot of people who want to play in Miami for a long time.

He's definitely high on that list. I think Vince is on that list. I just like to spend May and June in nice weather areas. Now we're just going to have to be on the cellar. Listen, man, the best time of Miami is November and December, because it's before the the snowbirds come and the weather is not as hot, the humidity leaves a little bit. That is the time to be in Miami. You know, you first see the Canadians. The folks from Montreal show up first.

Once they show up, there's no stop in the snowbirds. But until that happens, that's the glory. That's the real time to be down there, Vince. That's when you want. You should try to angle for an early season, an early season trip down there to do a story on the heat. There's never a bad time. There's never a bad time to go spend a few days in Miami, Wendy.

Okay, welcome back to the Hoop Collective. So Spencer Jones' offer sheet with the Oklahoma City Thunder two years and 12 million was matched by the Denver Nuggets shortly after we recorded this segment. So let's just all pretend that, we all know in this segment that it was matched, right? McMahon, we're fine with that, right? We can all do that together. We can agree to that as pod friends.

Just change all the it would to a did. Okay, sounds good. Here you go. So the nuggets are in a situation with Spencer Jones. By the time this podcast comes out, I think it'll probably have been established. But over the weekend, the Oklahoma City Thunder signed Spencer Jones to an offer sheet, $6 million a year. Spencer Jones is a quality rotation wing.

Nice pickup for Oklahoma City or if Denver matches, that's fine. I think what this just highlights, the reason Oklahoma City did this offer sheet was because of how tight of a spot Denver is in. And Denver has gone through this postseason. They didn't resign some of their free agents, including Tim Hardaway. But they are really,

really in some tight spot here with their accounting. And it's for a couple of reasons. One, it's because the Aaron Gordon extension that they signed is kicking in. Two, it's that a couple years ago when Jamal Murray got a contract extension, they gave him the max. You know, he was coming off some injuries and a little bit of a down season, and they gave him the max, which was, you know, a little bit surprising. And they extended Christian Brown last year at $100 million.

So even if they don't do pay... And they extended... They extended Zeke Nagee. Remember that deal? That's true. I'm sorry, that deal is a killer. He's not a rotation player. Right.

And so they're facing... They have only paid a total of $50 million in tax in the last 23 years, 50 million total. Wow. And right now, they're 21 million. million over the luxury tax. They are $14 million into the second apron if Payton Watson picks up his qualifying offer. And if they match on Jones, they're going to be even further into the second apron. And there were a peer luxury tax team.

And Bobby, Bobby says their current tax penalty is $36.4 million. with Spencer Jones, if they picked that up, that $6 million salary, it goes to $68.6 million. So basically a $32 million tax hit. And this is, you know, their messaging has been because there was a lot of, I would say the conventional wisdom around the league was, hey, if they're going to keep Peyton Watson, they're going to either dump Christian Brown,

which I think that was going to be very difficult to do, or Cam Johnson, which would have been. been much easier with Cam being in the last year of his contract at a lower number. But then the messaging from the Nuggets says, we don't do that. We're free to spend. Well, how free are you? That's kind of the bluff that Sam Presti pulled. You know, this to me almost feels eerily similar in different mechanics to the Milwaukee

Bucks post-championship. Like, you wind up rewarding your guys who were there. their numbers keep going up and it's not commiserate to the cap. Or it's one contract is commiserate to the cap, but not five contracts are commiserate to the cap. Chris Millington gets a max, Drew Holliday gets a max. Everybody gets extended off of the championship in trying to keep that team, the bones of that team together. And you keep putting good money after bad. And now they're in a position where is this a first round team in the Western Conference?

even if they keep everybody. It was last year. That's what I'm saying. You have the best player in the world, or at least in the conversation of still being the best player in the world, and you are paying luxury tax money, and you don't have any designs on getting to the Oklahoma City,

San Antonio echelon of contention in the West. That feels like you're in no man's land. Well, this goes back to what you're talking about before, Vince, the difficulty of managing, an era of competition. And it's especially difficult when you manage it with a team that has in the past been adverse to paying the tax. Now, they've been headed, I mean, they're paying the tax this year. And they've been headed towards this number for a while.

They've known that this was going to be the year where it really bites. They knew what they, you know, they knew what they were getting into when they signed those contracts. But they didn't necessarily know that they were going to be coming off of a year where they were at a first round exit. And they didn't know that Nikola Yokic was going to head towards unrestricted free agency next year. Now, he said he's going to be a nugget. I'm not implying that he's not. But until he signs, he hasn't signed. Well, and why is he, why did he say he's waiting to sign his extension?

Because he wants more money on the back end. And if you want to believe that, I guess you can. Well, but again, let's, again, let's take him his word. Him want more money on the back end, I mean, I don't have the numbers that fund me, but he's going to be making, into the 60s, the 70s, well into his 30s, and it's just going to be, I mean, extremely difficult. Well, you're going to pay him. You're going to pay him.

Just like Steph, you're going to pay. If Steph wants, you know, two years at 70 million or whatever it's going to be, you're going to give it to him. Right. And just like OKC will pay Shay, as long as Shay is playing an MVP level, they'll pay him without blinking when, you know, just like they did on the last extension, just like they'll do on the next extension.

My point is, though, when you have a guy making that kind of money, and especially, the OKC is an exception, because OKC did it with a stockpile of picks in their possession. And part of their stockpile picks are Denver picks, by the way. Denver's on the, and most teams in this situation are on the other side where they're down picks because of what they've tried to do to cash in on a window. of having a player at that level.

So I want to go back to what Vince said again. Vince talked earlier about the window with the Golden State Warriors and how you just can't have the window open forever. I think like if you look at the Milwaukee Bucks, if you go back and look in 2018-19, they won 60 games and made to the conference finals. If you're going to take it through 204-25, you look at these 60-win season, 56 win season,

46 and 26 in one of the COVID shortened years, 51 wins, 58 wins, 49 wins, 48 wins. They're competing every year while they're chewing up their resources, right? And eventually they ran out. Look at how big the Nuggets window has been. You go back and look, 2018, 19, that was their first 50 wins season under Yokic. Year after year, 46, 47, 48, 53, 57, 50, 54. they're holding on the window they're they're they're trading their first round picks and and

you know pushing off contracts and rob and peter to pay paul like it's they're in the same zone we don't know when the era is so we don't know the error is open to it's two years after the fact and you look at the team you're like wait you have you guys haven't gotten out of the first round in two years but you still look like the team that won a championship the problem with the salary structure is and not saying that yokech or step isn't worth what they're going to get paid. But the way that the salary structure works in the NBA is you are underpaid at the absolute peak of your career. And then when you start getting the balloon payments on the back end, you're no longer that supersized version of yourself. That can be the best player, obviously,

on the championship team or take up that much of the salary cap. So finding the balance, I don't know if there is a balance for franchise. is because the rule is making so, you're going to make the most money in your career as you are starting to wind down, as you are no longer a sure-cut MVP type of guy. I don't know how teams do that anymore. And the other thing is, like, yes,

you need one of those guys to have a chance to win a championship. And Joker is still without question one of those guys. Like, if we're talking about the best players in the league, there's no argument to put him any lower than third. And there's still an argument to put him at number one. So, but you also need depth. And it is extremely difficult to do both, extremely difficult. To be watched.

We love parity though, Adam Silver. We love parity. It's a lot deeper than Spencer Jones, but he certainly was a tipping point. All right, well, McMahon, the college tour is over. Where are we at? Broke. And haven't even had to start making tuition payments for this one. No, we've got to.

There's the admissions process to play. Yeah, but we've got a put it in pencil final four. I guess like if you're filling your brackets out, we've got that final four. Is Duke in there? Duke is not in there. Thank God. Duke is not in there. Carolina is.

I respect it. The Carolina Basketball Museum was awesome. Danny Green's got some, like Danny Green's got an amazing basketball life. Yes. When we were at the finals and shumps up there with his ring and perks up there with his ring and Vince, did you see the necklace?

Oh, three of them things. The tops of the rings. I actually think they're replicas. I don't think they were the actual tops, but he had the replica tops of his three rings. Wakers ring, Raptors ring, Spurs ring. And he had them on a necklace. And it was just beautifully

designed and he was just wearing his three ring, the ring tops on his chest. It was so sweet. So we also, Danny told me that it's expensive as hell. I mean, Danny celebrates his titles. I don't blame him. He bought a replica.

You can, if you're a champion, you can buy a replica Larry O'Brien trophy. And I don't mean one that's made out of plastic. I mean, the actual thing. And it ain't cheap. And he's got one. Hey. Can you imagine coming over to someone's out? I think he's actually got more than one, but I don't want to, you know, put him on blast.

We respect Danny Green. also won a championship of Carolina. Absolutely. So we got Danny Green's alma mater, Chris Paul's alma mater. I'll say Lamarcus Aldridge's alma mater and Anthony Edwards

alma mater. Not sure they ain't got us agree, but that's okay. I heard Vince that the McMahon family loved Georgia. I honestly was pleasantly surprised by how cool of a town

Athens, Georgia is. I was going to say, did you have low expectations? No, I just, it surprised me just the vibe in the like the city, especially like the downtown area right there on campus. I thought it was, it didn't happen. I heard Athens is a good time, especially, you know, you're going to college football Saturday. I've heard some good things about, you know. You doing that sickum, wolf-wolf stuff?

He's a Georgia, he's a Georgia dad already. Look at this. Oh, goodness. Oh, you know what? Go hang out in Chapel Hill with your boy and Michael Malone. I didn't hit Michael Malone up. I did it. Like I said, the Carolina basketball museum, I'm just telling you.

If you're in Chapel Hill, it's free and it's awesome. Like they've got all kinds of, from like the 1920s on, all kinds of unbelievably cool Carolina historical memorabilia in there. This trip, man, this is a Texan talking about the deep south. I guess North Carolina is out. North Carolina is not the deep south. It's the south, but ain't the deep south. I'll just say this. As long as there's no picture of a timeout in the North Carolina basketball museum, we'll do just fine.

All right. All right. Shout out to C Webb. All right. Thank you very much for putting us together, all of our producers and Jackson leading the way. Thank you to Vince. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective.

We'll talk to you later this week. Adios amigos.