Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - AD Injury Impact, Bold Quotes From Dallas & James Harden Interview

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to Anthony Davis’ latest injury & the impact it could have on the Mavs, some bold quotes from Dallas ownership, Mark Williams trade to the Lakers getting rescinded, the Blazers better play of late, the Magic struggling without Suggs and discuss if the West is truly wide open. Plus, Clippers’ guard James Harden joins the show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the HOOC collective podcast presented by State Farm. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing actually at this moment on Sunday night. We did a whole podcast that we taped before the Super Bowl.

Then we had some late news, which we'll talk about in a second. So we're going to talk about this late news involving Anthony Davis here, and then we're going to put the rest of the podcast that we already taped on the back end of it. And as an educated 2025 media consumer, you'll understand. Then we later on the show, we have an interview with James Hardin. All right,

joining us from New York City, Tim Bontems. Hello, everybody. Join us from Dallas, Texas, and certainly we'll be talking later in this podcast, but all the stuff that happened in Dallas on Saturday

and the interview that the governor of the team, Patrick Dumont, gave on Sunday. But first, here's Ben McMahon. Howdy, Partners, Wendy,

I regret to inform me that your hair looked a lot better earlier today. Yeah, I know. It's late at night. I don't even really think we need to do this addition to the pod, but I got out voted. I'm sorry.

Anthony Davis being out multiple weeks at the minimum due to a left deductor strain after playing basically three quarters of a game for the Mavericks following a trade where he was the headliner of the return for Luca Donchich, who got traded in large part because the Mavericks believed his body was breaking down with Davis's up. unfortunate history of durability issues. Yeah, this is a pretty major development. You got hurt. Happens. Unfortunately, again, his history is it happens a lot with Anthony Davis. And he is the guy they targeted to get for a 25-year-old generational superstar who, yes, he's missed a ton of games this

year. Yes, he's had constant condition issues. But yes, he was fresh off leading this team to the finals, this trade, regardless of what happened the rest of this season, is as huge a risk as Nico Harris and the Mavericks GM and that franchise could take. And this is a very unfortunate reminder that the risk isn't just giving up potentially one of the best players of all time. I think that's a fairly significant development. I'm sorry. Bon Timps. Yeah, I mean, I certainly agree with you when you're talking about Enoch Harrison saying there's a three or four year runway on this trade and AD gets hurt halfway through the first game could be out a month, could miss up 12 games, will not be eligible. Latest guy is not eligible for all NBA,

all but certainly as a result of this. And, you know, the MAVs are sitting one game ahead of Golden State, Phoenix, and Sacramento, Sacramento, who they play. Monday, Golden State, who they play Wednesday, for the final spots in the play-in situation in the Western Conference. I mean, there's a very real possibility that by the time Anthony Davis comes back, Dallas Mavericks are not in the playing situation in the Western Conference. And they could be looking at a repeat of the situation they were in two years ago when they're sitting on the outside looking in and looking at being in the lottery rather than making

a playoff run. When you just traded for a guy who's six or seven years older than the guy you just traded and you talked about as durability issues, it's pretty concerning. Well, and one slight difference from the situation two years ago, and look, we've got to let this season play out, but lively is going to be out for most, if not all the rest of the regular season. We'll see when AD is able to return, but it's not going to be for at least a little while. But hypothetically speaking, if that situation plays out the way you just said,

they missed the play in, which is within the realm of possibility in an extraordinarily competitive way. They go into the lottery. The biggest difference between that situation and the one two years ago is two years ago, the concern was, oh, bleep. If we don't get this thing turned around, Luca might have good reason to want out. Whereas now it's like, oh, bleep, Luca was happy to stay, and we couldn't wait to get rid of them. And now look what happened. It's a long leap to think that they're going to be out of the plan. Brian, their one game ahead of 11th.

The guy misses a month. He's going to miss half of their remaining. schedule. And listen, like, they also, they're right back in the situation that they were in before in terms of they don't have Luca and they don't have the guy who different position, but they started that they brought in instead of Luca. And this is a team that was really, really struggling since Christmas. I mean, it's crazy. It seems so long ago now. They'd won 14 of 17 going into Christmas. Luca got hurt, and look, there's been a lot of other stuff that's happened since then. Kyrie certainly has missed some time, but you're putting a ton on his plate is like the only real ball hander that you are excited about having the ball on his hands.

But I just, I'm dumbfounded that you think this is a ho-hum type of situation. Well, it's not ho-hum, it's a bad break. What else is there to say? Well, it's a bad break. What's there to say is that they, this guy, they just traded for this guy, claiming that their window was now and that the prior guy was too hurt in not condition. He also played 76 games last year. He'd missed like only three games this year. Like he's in great shape. I mean, he had an abdominal injury when the trade was made days before the deadline too.

Last year also was the first year in many years that Anthony Davis was actually healthy enough to play 76 games. I mean, it was the first time he's ever played 76 games. I mean, Anthony Davis's entire career has been defined by him being a guy who, is, you know, in addition to being a great player, someone who is regularly missing chunks of time and leaving games because of injuries. And people are going to hear you say this in a few minutes, but earlier on, you basically said, hey, this was unfortunately and, you know, for better and worse, it was the whole Anthony Davis experience in his Maverick's debut because he was absolutely dominant. and then unfortunately it ended early due to injury. But them, I mean, they're an eighth now, but it's only, like Bonham said, they're only one loss ahead of 9, 10, and 11.

And this is a team that was 19 and 10 going into Christmas. Yeah, 9 and 15 cents. It's, and, and Lively's out. Like two of, I would say two of their three most important players are going to miss. Right. So two of their most important players, out. So if they lose, like, it's not, it's like, it's right. This is a baffling.

Is this a, is this a situation where you are just very going that you have to work? You're beating them over the head because a player got hurt. Okay. Brian, they trade or assessing. Hold on. Hold on. They traded for a player in Anthony Davis. But they could have traded for a player who'd never been hurt in his life and he could have had his brain injury. Brian. Brian. No, no, no, Brian. I understand your clearly. Here's what I think is going on. The world has decided that the Mavericks are stupid. And now that Anthony Davis got hurt, they're just hopping on top of him, beating them all in the head, that they're in their stupid.

Brian. He got hurt. It happens. It happens. The Dallas Mavericks made one of the most staggering trades in the history of the NBA. And their justification for making the trade was that it made them better today and that they were going to be a team that had a better chance of winning today right now, trading for Anthony Davis, who was hurt at the time and who has a history of being hurt.

And in the first game he played, he had an unbelievable half and now could miss a month. That's what happened. appreciate your stance, Wendy, because I've been accused a lot recently of being Nico Harrison's mouthpiece, which, by the way, for the last few years, my critical coverage of Ruponchage raised the ire of Nico Harrison as much as anybody, I can assure you. So I appreciate you stepping up and trying to take that title that I certainly do not want. Well, I'm not being a mouthpiece. I'm just saying it's bad luck. The NPDavis got hurt. Bad luck.

No one is saying it's not bad luck, but you're also acting like it's no big deal that this happened. And again, this is a big deal, but like, you know, oh my gosh, those stupid Mavericks, stupid Mavericks. Like, are the Mavericks not going to be obliterated if they miss the play in? Of course they will be. Okay. Is Nico Harrison potentially going to lose his job if they missed the play in? Wendy, this is not just any old train. When you go to the lottery, when you go to the lottery and you see the 14 teams at the lottery,

There's a couple of teams there that are tanking that knew they were going to be bad. But a lot of times, six or seven of those teams had just crap injury luck for the season. And sometimes the difference between being in the finals and being in the lottery can just be injuries. And if the Dallas Mavericks hadn't traded Luca Dachich and they were sitting there and Luca Dachich missed a bunch of time with injuries. Maybe Luca will pull his calf again in two weeks. And then you will say, well, those Lakers should have known. Right. Like, come on, guys.

If Brian, if the Dallas Mavericks had been sitting there with Luca Dauau. Manchich having missed a bunch of time with injuries. And Kyrie Irving, missing time with back injuries, and they missed the play in. We would have said, hey, Dallas had an awesome team. They had bad luck. They missed the, they had. Oh, okay. So Lucas injuries, bad luck. 80s injury is stupid. Got it. Let me write that down. Wendy. That's not. No, I got it. No, you're acting like this is just any old trade. Any old trade. There was a protest with 1,000.

Okay, obviously it's a big trade. Michael Harrison has received death threats. And by the way, let me just double down on that reporting because I've been ripped because the Dallas police departments told some want to be journalist that, oh, we haven't had any, there's no known threats to us. Folks, the Mavericks have security that's literally been at the highest level of American law enforcement. the threats did not raise themselves to where they felt like they needed to be reported to the police, but I gare wrong to you, and I've heard from multiple sources that he's received death threats. By the way, I've received a couple death threats. I didn't report him to the police, but this is how pissed off people are about this trade. And that's, your reaction is bad luck.

I mean, the circumstances. It's just an odd position. The reaction is supposed to be. Your reaction is supposed to be what? Dallas, the Mavericks are stupid. That's what you got me to say. I've never said stupid, but you can say that. No, that's what you guys are saying. You're saying they're stupid. Okay, don't put words in my mouth here because I'm the one who's got to live on the ground here, first of all. Now, I will say the logic behind the deal was extraordinarily risky and questionable.

You can absolutely say those things. Okay. I can say it's not a trade that I would have made. I think it's risky because Luca could win multiple MVP's and multiple championships. championships. That's why it's risky. Well, but again, part of the rationale for the trade was that they got rid of a guy that they couldn't rely on. And they traded him for a guy who has a history of getting hurt and he got hurt in the first game he played in. Doesn't mean it's not bad luck. It doesn't mean that they should be pilloried that he got hurt or that Anthony Davis should be drawn. Oh, they're getting

pilloried already. I've already seen it. I've already been watching it happen. I'm getting pilloried for the trade for a week. That's not what we're saying. The other thing here. this is a trade you traded the guy who and we'll see maybe they end up being right about lucca breaking down but you have the chance to have a generational player for the next decade or so and they said nope we don't trust him we can't rely on them we don't want him we want anthony davis who is an amazing player but by doing that by nico harrison and if anthony davis has six groin injuries in the next three years then you it's a fair assessment but by nico harrison's own words The timeline is now three to four years.

So the next month he's going to be out. The only way this trade can ultimately really be justified is if the Mavericks win a title in that three to four year time frame. And so this is a massive, massive, massive dent to the hope. That was true before he pulled his mind. All that was true before he pulled his mind. But they also, but this is this, but again, I want to refer back to five minutes ago when you said it's a stretch that they'll miss the play in. It's not a stretch. You didn't say it was a stretch.

I said as a leap. You literally said, you literally said it's a stretch to say they're going to miss the play. More than a stretch. A leap. Well, I'm just saying you've already decided that they're missed. They might miss the playoffs. You've already decided. The reason it's a relevant injury is because the best player on the team, which he is,

is now out for half the remaining schedule and their one game out of 11. And if anybody in between six and 10 would have that happen, but it's not anybody. That's not anybody. I understand. I'm sorry you had to work again, but this is a ridiculous, it's a ridiculous position to take. Belas, ridiculous position. Fellas, I think on this one, we can just agree to disagree and let folks get to the rest of the podcast. All right. Obviously, okay, when it comes to groin injuries, just like any other strain, soft tissue injury, there's grades one, two, and three. This very much seems like

it's not a grade one because a grade one injury is typically a week or two day to day, which is what it sounded like after the game. Very clearly, this is a grade two, at least, and they have to hope it's a two, because if it's a three, you got real big problems, but hopefully it's not a three. I think that would have been more apparent. But if it's a grade two sprain, that's a three to five to six week injury, depending on various people. I believe we will know more on Monday about the severity and about the potential treatment options, which knock on wood that it's rest. Well, and it also just puts the Mavs in an even tighter spot when it comes to Kyrie Irving, who's still playing with,

this back injury and remains the only ball handler of real consequence on the roster. So, you know. Well, I would say that if I were the Lakers, I would make sure that that calf is in good shape. No kidding. For Luca. That's what I would say. No kidding.

But so hopefully it is only a grade two strain, strain. Also, the Mavericks do get a small break and that the All-Star break with a week off is coming up, which now. AD is not going to go to play in the All-Star game, so they'll have to be a replacement. And hey, there was one sliver of good news on the evening injury report that the Mavericks put out, and that's PJ Washington, is questionable for the Kings on Monday when he had to exit due to a sprained ankle Saturday afternoon. So the only good thing I guess for the Mavericks is that they do have three starter quality centers on their roster. So they are now down two of them.

I mean, it's obviously better for him to miss Anthony Davis for a while than Kyrie if you have to pick one of them because there's just really no replacement for Kyrie. But it's still not great. That's true. And like I said, to me, the biggest impact of this, like yeah, obviously the longer term issues of this are apparent. To me, it's the more relevant thing is, you know, Sacramento, I think arguably got better at the deadline, even though they traded deer in Fox. Golden State added Jimmy Butler. Most teams are sitting right behind them. Phoenix will see if they can ever get their act together.

I'm not sure about Fian. I'm not sure about that either. Jimmy Butler misses a lot of games due to injury. Sure. If he gets hurt, are you going to slap the Warriors? They didn't mortgage the future on getting Jimmy Butler. We are assessing a situation and a historically unprecedented trade and all the various risks involved.

It just puts a spotlight on the fact that they're 9 and 15 since Christmas Day. That's a fair thing to say. The whole time that they've been out without Luca. And, you know, that's not a percentage going forward that's going to be good enough to make the playoffs. And if they're even 500 the rest of the way, they're probably not good enough to make the playoffs. So we'll see what happens over the next few weeks. But by the way, they play Sacramento Monday and they play Golden State Wednesday. Those were already huge games.

They're even more so now that they've got those games on home without Anthony Davis. I would just say that the parameters of the risk profile of what the Mavericks did, were the same on Saturday as they are on Sunday. I mean, yes, I would agree with that. And the fact that the star player gets an injury is the breaks of the game and the ebb and flow of the NBA season. Well, again, we agree on that. The only thing I would say is that it is a bit ironic

that part of the justification of the trade was because you couldn't rely on the other guy when you trade for this guy. Now, see, we've come together. I will accept what you said about their record after Luca got hurt. I will accept irony. I will accept everything. I will not accept that it's some sort of catastrophe. Well, it's a catastrophe if they miss the playoffs.

If a star player gets hurt, you miss the playoffs, that's life of the ambios. It's a catastrophe if you miss the playoffs when you made a win now trade. Wendy. It happens. Wendy. Come on down to visit me. I need you to, I guess from Nebraska, you can't feel the heat that's in Texas right now because, brother, it's hot. If the Dallas Mavericks miss the playoffs, that's going to be a catastrophe.

You can say whatever else you want. I mean, oh my. Oh, my. That's got nothing to do with calling anybody, idiots or pillar anything. If they miss the play, if Anthony Davis is out, you know, for a long period of time and they miss the playoffs because of that, that's a bad break. If they came back and Luca averages 37, 12, and 9 and the Lakers are in the Western Conference finals and the Mavericks are home, that's a catastrophe. Well, I would say, frankly, either or. I mean, if we're being real.

Yeah. all right well it's hard it's hard to make a win now trade say you have a three to four your window and have one of those years be you missed the playoffs that's yeah i know what that could happen to anybody i am i am not anybody it's it's a team that's literally said that's their window i'm glad we're on the same page about irony let's take that as it as a all right here comes the rest of the pod here comes rest of the podcast more hoop collective podcast after this at the uh the uh the rally uh pro I guess the protest, the protest of the Luca tray that you were at. I was not at the protest. I can assure you of that. I was getting videos from the protest. Oh, okay. That makes me feel.

I was wondering if you were getting those videos. No, no. I got videos and I was getting kind of play-by-play update, especially every time that my name was mentioned in derisive chance. Okay. See, that's interesting because I thought this is good information because I saw these videos and I thought they were chanting at you because you were standing there. They were just chanting at you. You weren't even there.

Correct. I had a couple of spies there. A couple of dads in the neighborhood brought their sons. I think they were there to complain. Including, were your sons there protesting? Absolutely. No, absolutely not. Wouldn't that be amazing? Talk about getting back at your old man. I can't directly relate to this, McMahon. I will say that when a L. LeBron went to Miami and then ESPN announced in a press release I was going to Miami, which, you know, I was happy to go to ESPN.

I wasn't so happy about the press release. And I had to live in Cleveland for another week. It was not an ideal time, including when I went to a game and people were shooting spitballs at me, but they never chanted at me. I have been jeered in mass by Dallas fans before, but not in a rally. And when I was in Miami, when I started saying that I didn't think LeBron was going to stay, I had some uncomfortable times there, but never quite anything like this. So yeah, listen, and it's like obviously you've been through that.

It's not my first rodeo with fans being mad at me. I understand. And I understand that, you know, sometimes the facts, the truth, factual reporting is not always flattering. It's not always comfortable. It's not always what you want to hear. And messengers have been being blamed since the medieval times. You know, when they're chaining, don't buy the book.

I definitely appreciate the free. The Wonder Boy, by the way. Or the Wonder Boy, which is. There it is. There it is. You're behind you. Beautiful. It's the first I've noticed it.

Available for pre-order. I got to frank out that last chapter by Friday, though. And I mean, I'm doing about that. Kvon was asking where our copy is yesterday. She was like, where's the book? I said the book's not out yet. I want to wait for the last chance. We've got to get the chapter.

But, and listen, obviously, I was a bit player in the protest. certainly the vast majority of the venom was directed first and foremost at Nico Harrison. I mean, Fire Nico was, I would say, the predominant theme of this protest. And you talk about a surreal scene. This protest was being held in Victory Plaza. The estimates that I got was about 1,000 people. So that's a pretty large number of people filling this plaza right outside the arena. The plaza where this 24-foot statue of dirt,

Mavitsky is erected, is overlooking this thing, right? Dirk fading away. The inscription on Dirk statue says loyalty never fades away. 21 letters representing 21 seasons of unflinching loyalty to the city of Dallas and loyalty from the Mavericks franchise back to Dirk. And I don't think anybody thought there was going to be 21 years of Luca, but the Maddox fans certainly believed and hoped with every bit of their heart. that there would be a good 15 or so.

And less than Southern is what it ended up being. And, you know, there was signs like loyalty faded away was one of the signs, you know, just again, a whole lot of sell the team signs. And, you know, so the Adelson family and Patrick DeMont, who married into the Adelson family and is now the governor of the Dallas Mavericks, he, I guess, you know, obviously was getting updates on these protests, and I'm sure he's seeing some of the footage and some of the videos, a ton of media attention on these things. And he decided to talk to a pal of the pod, Brad Townsend, and I would say essentially what Patrick DeMont did today was maybe the fire might be dying down

just a bit. I mean, Anthony Davis had an amazing debut right up until unfortunate and ended early. Max Christie's looked amazing. They had a big win over the Houston Rockets. You know, they were taking up signs and stuff. I guess the security at the, you know, the entrances was pretty strict, but it was a very supportive atmosphere inside the arena. I was not surprised. I was kind of surprised by that. I thought that it might be a negative atmosphere. It turns out the negativity was mostly outside. Well, and again, I'm not up at the exits, but fans that I've heard from did say, hey, if you had a fire Nico sign or T-shirts or any of that kind of stuff, the security was being a little bit, oh, an American?

I don't know. Whatever you want to say. Whatever you want to call that. But listen, like AD comes in and are you kidding me? Like, could you ask for, again, unfortunately, until he exited late in the third quarter with what they don't think will be a, you know, like a major injury, you might miss a little bit of time. But talk about introducing yourself to Dallas and basically, as he said, a friend, reminder of who Anthony Davis is, this dude had one of the most dominant halves that I've seen in

a while. The only NBA player or Maverick who's had more dominant half in recent memory has been Luke on a few occasions. Maybe a Kyrie liking in the opener of the Western Conference finals, but he comes out in the first four plus minutes, he's getting, he's swatting shots, grabbing rebounds. He has four buckets. The fourth bucket, he misses a contested layup. grabs that thing, dunks it with two hands, and, you know, Imiodoca calls timeout, chest bumps a couple of teammates. He's waving his hands, looking at the stands, waving his hands. The crowd is going nuts. He points at the court, you know, shouts, I'm here. I mean, it was like, whoa. Dude had like 24, 13, 5 and 3. It's 10 times more fiery than he was when LeBron broke the

Kareem record. True. But first half, I think it was 24, 13, 5, and 3 blocks. Like, it was, so you've got that Max Christie. And Max Christie is so far, like, down the list of things. Yeah, he's like the seventh man. Maybe fifth man. No, I'm talking about it in this trade. Like, who else? You know what I'm saying? But like 21 year old kid turns 22 Monday. And he's played three games. He's playing great. Had 23 points off the band. By the way, it was Clay Tops was. birthday on Saturday. Was there any festivities for that? I'd be honest with, I didn't even know that. There you go. Well, poor Clay, totally. There's a few other things going on. But Max Christie, you know, plays amazing. Hits the dagger three. You've got it. Like, you got through the protests. You know, it's been a really chaotic, unprecedentedly bizarre type of week.

You get a little bit of good feeling. Like, what an intro to the Dallas audience for A.D. for Max Christy. And then Patrick Dumont comes out and gives Brad Townsend of the Dallas Morning News an extended interview. Let me just say real quick before you read these quotes, you've been around Patrick more than I have. I've spent time with them on a couple of occasions. He has always come off as mild-mannered to me. Reasonable, reasonable, mild-mannered, chill. You know, over the years I've gotten to spend time with owners in various settings. And sometimes you can figure out right away how competitive somebody is or a loof somebody is.

I mean, you spend 10 minutes with Steve Balmer. You will feel his energy. You will feel the way he operates. You know, you spend 10 minutes with Mark Cuban, you know, which we've all spent hours with Mark Cuban, but, you know, you will feel his personality. You know, you spend minutes with Tony Ressler, the Atlanta Hawks, for example. There's no way you walk away from 10 minutes, Tony Ressler and not understand how competitive this guy is and the way he looks at the world.

You spend 10 minutes with Patrick Dumont, you get, you know, a very pleasant, thoughtful, mild-mannered guy. So I just wanted to set that before these quotes because I've never heard anything like this out of him. Go ahead. And I'm going to focus on one quote in particular. Now, I don't actually even like this quote. I don't like, I'm going to let you go in your route because this is your team.

But I don't even care about this quote, but go ahead. No, the thing he had to say, because there's just ridiculous conspiracy theory, they've been going, oh, this is the franchise so they could, you know, move it to Vegas, which, again, was never going to happen. The NBA was never going to allow that. It was a conspiracy theory because people could not understand why they traded Luca, even though I spelled out within 30 minutes of the trade the reasoning. They gave up on him. Nico on the record within 30 minutes of the trade. Well, that was Deven Swins' championships, but it was the conditioning concerns. It was the belief that he was going to break down.

It was the fact they didn't believe in him. They didn't want to build a culture around him. And your superstar is always going to be the most impactful thing in the culture of the franchise. So he had to say that part. And then he had to say, believe, to Nico. If I was advising him from a PR perspective, I would have said it ended there. He talked a whole lot more. And this one is just, I mean, if you don't believe me,

about the conditioning stuff and, you know, all that being a concern. Listen to this. If you look at the greats in the league, the people you and I grew up with, Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, they worked really hard every day with a singular focus to win. And if you don't have that, it doesn't work. And if you don't have that, you shouldn't be part of the Dallas Maverings. That's who we want. I'm unwavering on this. The entire organization knows this. This is how I operate outside of basketball. This is the only way to be competitive and win. If you want to take a vacation, don't do it with us. Whoa.

So basically they said Luke is chilling, eating, you know, having a good old time, getting, you know, large and thinking he's in charge and no, no, no, we're shipping them off to L.A. But let me just break down how insane of a quote this is. First of all, the greats you go, okay, Larry Bird was. a legendary beer drinker whose body broke down after a dozen years in the NBA. And all-time great, but like Larry Bird was not the epitome of discipline. Yeah, you had a bad back. Okay.

I know a legendary beer drinker when I see one. Trust me. Larry Burr, throw some bruskeys down. Are you kidding me? What are we talking about? Like, his post-game routine involved multiple cervases, although he probably made domestic crap, but still. Yeah.

Again, okay. I don't know. Let me go a little bit. But he's not talking about Larry Bird's body fat. He's talking about his competitiveness. They worked really hard every day with a singular focus to win. Larry Bird did work very hard. All right, go ahead.

Luca works hard on his game, but you're talking about the preparation, talking about the condition. These are the reasons that the Mavericks gave up. I know. That was 40 years ago, buddy. Shack famously played his way into shape every year. Would need to shed weight every single training case.

McMahon, I would respectfully say, I understand we were coming from, but I think the point of the point I think we should be making is that this was not just a Nico Harrison decision, right? No. Nico Harrison can either, either Patrick Dumont agreed with this separately or Nico Harrison over time talking to Patrick Dumont, they came to a consensus that organizationally, the Mavericks at the highest level did not believe in Luca Dantritch as a player. that they were going to be building around for the rest of this decade. And I will also just say that those two were not alone in that belief. It certainly is not a consensus throughout the organization. That much I can absolutely promise you. There are people with the Madricks who are just like, what have we done?

But it was not just Nico and Patrick Dumont. That I can promise you. All right. Let me read a few more quotes from here. One more thing real quick about this one. if you're going to go down a list of all-time greats in the context of work ethic, and it's intended for this Dallas audience that is outraged, maybe that guy who has that statue in Victory Plaza possibly should have been mentioned along those names.

That's all right. But I'm going to give him a pass. I'm going to give him a pass on listing the names. He made the point. Here's some other quotes from this interview. And like, by the way, you know, owners don't give these, you know, owners don't give these interviews every day, especially Patrick Dumont.

This is not, you know. The old owner did, but yes, this is... Well, the old owner used to do it before every game on the Stairmaster, which was truly an amazing time. I don't think we'll get that from DeMont any time soon. Well, he was also competing, you know, competing, you know, Mark Cuban was competing with Jerry Jones, who gives six interviews a week.

There was a guy who actually was sitting like two rows behind Cuban on the baseline by the mask bench yesterday, and I put this on my Instagram. But these guys, they did get some signs in, and one of the signs was they had a picture of Jerry photoshopped wearing a Maverick shirt on the phone. All right, quote, in my mind,

the way teams win is by focus, by having the right character, by having the right culture, and by having the right dedication to work as hard as possible. And if you're not doing that, you're going to lose, which is basically saying that.

Luca, why are doing that? They're running the bus over Luca, who I will remind you, and all the conditioning stuff is 100% legitimate, concerns, no, is it reasoning to trade him at 25? I wouldn't have done it. Can I just say, because I do these interviews all over the country, I think the conditioning, it makes it

the premise that I think a lot of people across the country, especially casuals think, is that they trade look because he's fat. And they're like, you don't look fat to me. The conditioning was one of the reasons. It was not the only reason. Not the only reason. It was conditioning slash culture and they go hand in hand. It was a belief his body was going to break down and that they would never have the kind of culture they want with him as the face of the franchise. To say it's the only way you can win when you are months removed from this guy leading you to the finals and being the first player in NBA history to lead an entire postseason and points, rebounds, assists, and steals, you cannot just say it's the only way to win when the guy

got you to the finals months ago. Okay, I've said it all along. In Nico, we trust. You have to respect his track record. You have to respect his intellect. You have to respect his relationships and his judgment in his point of view and the way he communicates. We had a tremendous run to the finals last year. But before that year's trade deadline, our trajectory was not a playoff-bound team.

Those trade moves by Nico acquired the right teammates to allow us to achieve our potential and get to the NBA finals. He is 1,000 percent standing behind Nikol. He is cementing himself, as Bontem said, is in lockstep. And he's attributing last year's success, not so much to Luca, but to the trades that they did. They traded for these role players that fit around Luca Dachich and who Luca Dachich was diming up for three pointers against the Oklahoma City Thunder when the Mavericks won that series by shooting wildly over their expected percentage, in part because Luca Dachich was setting guys up for wide open shots. Yeah, and and and lob threats. It's really grim with Daniel Gaff.

You do have to give Nika full credit for the move that he made last year, which on this pod, we were critical of, but we were pretty all. I was definitely critical of, of Kyrie, definitely critical of Kyrie. Yeah, of Kyrie. And honestly, we sat here. And again, the reaction. I didn't like any of those trades. I was incorrect on that. The reaction around the league was that they overpaid for a couple of role players last year who weren't going to raise a ceiling high enough to justify it. And then they went to the finals.

So yes, you have to give Nico credit. And by the way, the Mavericks, if healthy, are going to be a damn good team. Anthony Davis, like this year, next year after. Anthony Davis did remind everybody. Like, he's this afterthought in this trade. he's a freaking top 75 all-time player in his prime, a 10-time All-Star, you know, multiple all-MBAs, all-deefas. Anthony Davis is an absolute monster. And, you know, he's very understanding of what he's kind of walking into.

He gets the heartbreak. He gets what Luca meant to the city of Dallas. But he's also a very proud guy. And it's like, you know what, I can play too. And as he said, I'm going to give the city of Dallas life back. And boy, in that first half yesterday, he's show enough. did that, we'll see if it can be, if it's something that can be sustained. But the Mavericks can make a deep playoff run. They're going to be an awesome defensive team, especially once Lively

gets back. They're huge. They're athletic. Now, we'll see. Yeah, if healthy is also a very, very massive question because they have one guard that I would like to handle the ball in the playoffs. And that's Kyrie Irving, who's approached a third of three years old and has a bulge of disc in his back. And by the way, we got the entire Anthony Dave's experience in this debut where he was unbelievable in the first quarter, great first half, started to fade in the third quarter, went down with a non-contact contact injury where we thought he might miss two months and then said after the game, it wasn't a big deal and then he's going to be fine. So this was, that was the entire arc of the AD experience in one 48 minute game for Mavs fans now that he's arrived there.

Now, getting back to the DeMont stuff, he absolutely should be like, if you're If you give Nico the clearance to make this move, you absolutely better stand on it and better stand behind it. And Nico's track record, all in all, there's been, he's on year four, there's been a conference finals run. There's been a finals run. Those two years sandwiched a bizarre blockbuster trade into a tank season. And now we'll see how this year goes. But again, it's just that there's so much shock here. And part of it is just the crazy shock.

shift from making all these moves to surround Luca with a supporting cast that gives him a chance to contend. And this is a franchise that's operated for the last few years. We've got to build a contender around Luca or he might want to lead to this shift. And sudden, I don't know, it was, I think sudden is the right word. Shift to we can't keep building around him. We've got to figure out another path. We've got to dump this guy. And when I say, dump them. They honed in on one guy that they wanted, and that was Anthony Davis, and they got them. And again, it's a three to four year time frame. I'm quoting Nico Harrison on that. The problem is all the work you've done to build this finals caliber supporting cast round Luca, you've given up

your draft, you know, control of your draft in the first round in 27, 28, 29, and 30. If it's three to four years, you do the math, and you're like, oh, so Oklahoma City, 28 swap. Houston now has that 29 first round pick via Brooklyn. San Antonio, a 2030 swap. Your neighbors in the Western Conference respect the team that you've put together right now and are really excited about the future of the Dallas Mavericks benefiting them. All right. Well, to be continued. Hang in there, McMahon. Read all about it in the Wonderboy. That's right. We order it now. Up next, let's check out today's magic moment. brought to you by State Farm.

All right, we had some other news on Saturday, specifically that in the evening, I guess it was, the Lakers announced that they had rescinded the trade for Mark Williams. Three days after making, agreeing to it, they didn't say why, but the only reasonable way that could happen is they said the Hornets didn't. Well, let's just put it this way. To satisfy the conditions of the trade, there were two players involved that needed to pass a physical. One was Dalton Connect and one was Mark Williams and the Lakers announced that the trade was being rescinded. So that should tell you what happened. Right. So and by the way, you know,

it's a relatively early in the ownership process for Gabe Plot, Gabe Plotkin and Rick Schnell. They've owned the team for a couple of years now, but they haven't been out there. Unlike guys like Maddischby and Patrick Dumont who made a huge franchise altering moves within the first 18 months or in case of Matt Ishpia of the Sun's, the first 18 minutes being owner, the Hornets ownership has taken a much more slow role. And Jeff Peterson there, GM, I guess team president, you know, he is not, you know, super out there. You know, we're still learning about who they are as people.

But we certainly learned a lot by the statement that the Hornets put out after the I read it. I've got it right here. Okay. We are excited to welcome Mark back to our Hornets organization after the other team aggressively pursued Mark. We made, you could just stop there. They called the Lakers the other team in the statement. The Lakers are not mentioned.

It was incredible. The other team. Do you think there's going to be a lot of business done between the Lakers and the Hornets? I don't think there will be meetings at fancy coffee houses between the Lakers and the Hornets. Well, listen, there was a lot of the Lakers and the Hornets. Well, listen, there was another interesting quote, speaking of statements and quotes, Rob Polinka gave a very long, quote Thursday, about Mark Williams' health. And look, we talked about it the other day on the podcast.

Mark Williams is a talented seven-footer who has played in 40% of the games. He's been eligible to play and missed a calendar year with a back issue, right? So this is an interesting quote that he gave the other day in a scrum or Dave McBeneman had in the story. Quote, we fully vetted his health stuff led by Dr. Chris Jones at UCLA Health. and Dr. Leroy Sims on our team, and he's had no surgeries, Palinca said. So these are just parts of he's still growing into his body. We vetted the injuries he's had, and we're not concerned about those. We'll have a chance to have a physical and continue to do a deep dive and make sure that

what we've talked about and seen in the electronic medical records are good. So we'll still have that step in the process of doing a full physical before the trade becomes a fisher. Now, he did give the caveat that they're going to do a full physical. However, he went out of his way to say, we feel good about where this guy is at physically. And then two days later, they back out of the trade. It's just an interesting sequence of events. Well, on two fronts here.

One, it's a vitally important trade for the Lakers because it affects their ability to compete this year. He was their starting center. And by rescinding the trade after the deadline, the chances of them somehow, I mean, I never really think out with the Lakers. For all I know, Nikola Yoko Chukets will request a buyout and go sign there. in two days. But the chances of them getting a front line center now are very, very

slim. And so backing out of the trade, they know that they're potentially affecting this season significantly. Secondly, it was a very expensive trade for them. Trading away the 31 unprotected

and the pick swap and Dalton Connect, which, you know, there's mixed reviews on him, as far, however, he is an asset, no doubt. And so had they gotten it wrong, aka this guy comes in and has a series of injuries, it's potentially a, it's something you have to get right. At least you mean, if you get it wrong on the player evaluation, you know, that happens. But if you get it wrong because you take a risk on the health stuff and it blows up in your face, you really are going to have some questions. So I get why the Lakers were very cautious. But I also,

understand why they had to be cautious because of the stakes. But it was certainly a very, very significant development in the league. You know what, though? Here's what the Lakers can do. They can look at Luke and say, man, we're going to get you a rim rolling big. Like, we're going to get you that lob threat. We're going to get you that guy. You know, we were really aggressive. We were going to make this happen. But, you know, just the matter of the matter of the matter of, you know, medicals are too bad. We couldn't do this one. But hey, we hear you. And we're on it, buddy. Like, we're working together. They can do that. They can look them in the eye and say, absolutely it's a priority and our actions back that up.

Well, like, we'll see if this trade ages like the Tyson Chandler trade to Oklahoma City back in 15 years ago or so that was one of the real what-ifs of the last generation of the NBA, or if Tyson-Channler wound up on that Durand-Hardin Westbrook team would have been a pretty devastating. a state and group to have him out there with Serge Baca and those other three guys. That was in 2009, correct? I believe so. That trade got rescinded because of a tow issue. Two years later, he was the final piece of the Mavericks championship. Yes.

So maybe Mark Williams. It went through OKC. That's right. So maybe Mark Williams will develop into an elite two-way center, rim run and center, who's a great defensive player, or perhaps he'll continue to be a guy that struggles on the defensive end and is not available a lot. I mean, there's a reason why I was pretty skeptical. about the trade from the Lakers standpoint in the first place.

Like, it's a guy who definitely has potential, but he was raw, and it was a heck of a swing to say this was the guy that we're going to essentially make the centerpiece of our team around Luca Dachach going forward and be enough to convince Luca that, hey, this is a guy that you should feel confident about anchoring yourself with for a while. So it's certainly fascinating that they went the other way on the deal now. And Jackson Hayes, starting for the Lakers at center for the rest of the year, is going to be interesting to watch coupled with we have to see what Luca decides to do as far as an extension goes this summer and the Lakers have limited means to improve their roster and it's going to be

very interesting to see what the offseason looks like for them in light of this decision. Yeah. And the Tyson Chandler comp is a good one and obviously there are some parallels there. Tyson Chandler was certainly a much more proven player at that point of his career. Yeah, Tyson Chandler. No question. So the Chandler, just the history there, Tyson Chandler was playing for the Hornets. He got traded to the Thunder,

and the thunder rescinded the trade because they found something, I believe, with Chandler's foot. I'm not much. This is tough. Well, this talk. And Chandler went on to play 10 more years, including a couple years later,

he won a championship with the Mavericks. Am I right? We did just say all of this, actually. Okay. Sorry. I was distracted. Not paying any attention. Hey, Wendy's Sleep Update.

Literally, literally paying no attention. And all honestly, Tim and I just went through all of that. I am in moderate back pain right now due to a pulled muscle. I need one of those compression devices. Famously, how many years ago, was it four or five years?

Hey, you know that hyper ice that Cassidy was pumping up when she was on? That's what I need. Oh, I got one, babe. I know right now, my guy, Anthony Cass is a CEO. You know, a couple years ago, Keros Lavert got traded. I think it was in the heart in trade, wasn't it? Yes.

And the physical that they did after that found cancerous tumor on his kidney, I think it was. And helped potentially save his life. So I know they're not messed down. By the way, the Lakers won. They beat the Pacers on Saturday without LeBron or Luca. And Austin Reeves had 45 points in that game. And how about this for the whiz of the quiz? This is an incredible stat from Austin Reeves on Saturday.

So he became the sixth Lakers play. in history to have a game with 45 points, seven rebounds, and seven assists. These are the other five. Elgin Baylor. I know what the whiz of the quiz is something we get. That's fine. Let him just let just read it off. It's fine. Elgin Baler, Jerry West, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Austin Reeves. We could have gotten those. You robbed me of looking smart. All right. I have another whiz of the quiz involving the Lakers because it was something I was looking up. yesterday because I was thinking about it. I started covering the NBA with the 2012-13 season, the year that the net's moved into Brooklyn. How many times since then have the Lakers finished?

Is that taking a guy here? No, that was the next year. How many times in that span have the Lakers finished in a top six spot in the Western Conference? In that span? Since the start of that season. Once is the correct answer. The year they won the title. That's the first time Wendy's ever gotten a wizard of quiz. You might be right. It's only because of the ESPN, we're forced to lock into the Lakers whether we want to. It is just, it is just a remark. Hey, poor Wendy, he's forced to cover LeBron James.

That's never been a thing. It's never been a thing. It is just a remarkable thing that for especially the last several years with LeBron James and Anthony Davis, the Lakers have finished above the play-in spots in the West one time. You know what? you know how many times Lucas Mavericks have finished above sixth? Twice? Correcting if I'm wrong.

I believe it's once. I believe it's last year. No, no, I am wrong. But it is twice. It was also the conference finals year. Yeah, they go with the conference finals. Well, they're an eighth right now, I think. I'm absolutely.

The West is going to be a fascinating, like these last two months are going to be wild and are going to be fun in the Western Conference. I mean, we've, like, The Warriors just made this huge trade. Jimmy Butler looked, I mean, they were playing the Bulls, but Jimmy Butler looked awesome in his Golden State debut. There, as we speak, wouldn't even be in the play-in.

They're tied with the sons, but on the outside, tied with the sons and the Kings, for that matter. You've got the MADS at A, the Clippers with the Choir, right now playing team. Minnesota is starting to get things together. One eight out of the last 10, Houston's starting to sink. lost six in a row, including yesterday. Lakers are getting together, just made a massive trade.

The Nuggets are-Lakers. Lakers are nine and one in their last 10 games are in fourth place in the Western Conference standings. They're tied for third in the lost column, which is what I'm paying attention to. I mean, it's there for them. It's just going to be hard. By the way, I don't know if anybody is paying attention to the thunder.

The thunder of won six of seven. while everybody's having this, you know. They're 42 and 9 and floating under the radar. How about that? And they just got Chet Holmgren back. What a trendline acquisition that was. And on Saturday, they play without him because it was the second night of a back-to-back. And they went to Dort and I believe Kaysen Wallace also did that.

That's right. Correct. Wallace is out for the All-Star weekend. They just had to replace him the rookie sophomore game. And they went into Memphis last night, who's been one of the hottest teams in the league. and beat him by double digits. And they have just, correct me if I'm wrong, McMahon, the Thunder have just owned,

the team that's now in second, thanks to Houston's slide here, where they've kind of had to come back to the pack, Memphis has a pretty significant lead on them, three or four games now. So right now it's Oklahoma City and Memphis, one and two, in this tightly packed west, one and two is sort of out by themselves.

Memphis is a game and a half up on Denver. Okay. Oh, in Denver, yeah, that's right. Houston's all the way. Denver's on the rise. Houston's fallen. Houston, the Lakers are tied three games behind the Grizzlies. Now, they're all way behind OKC, obviously. Houston's lost six in a row, and the Lakers are won five in a row.

Haven't the Thunder just owned the Grizzlies? Well, I'll say this. Last night, it was the Thunder and those cheating reps that gave the Grizzlies 39 free throws and the Thunder 21. Well, I will say this. Many people are saying that the referees lean towards the thunder. People always are talking about how the Thunder get their favorable call. I love it.

Team Morant got kicked out of that game with a couple of minutes left. The last sprawl was when he yelled, the fix is in, and the Grizzlies had an 18 free throw advantage. It was Ray Acosta, and Drew Hill, who covers the Grizzlies tweet about this last night. Now, he wasn't the crew chief, but Ray Acosta was the ref in Oklahoma City a couple of years ago. Well, you remember Jah got thrown out from making some snide comment to a fan when old Ray was within ear shot? And it's funny because that Ray is well above six feet. Oh, my gosh. No, but he, quick trigger.

He tossed Jha. And that's when T came over and that fan felt bad if she was a Jaw fan. And so T's like FaceTiming with a fan with Jah in the locker room during the game. So Ocaster was part as the referee in crew, but he wasn't the crew chief. And the crew chief was it Tiven or Tyvin? old Josh. Josh Tiven was the, yeah, he's probably a shade shy of six feet,

but he went and he heard the fix his in, and I'm sure he heard a whole lot from T that game. He went and got security and said, you escort that fella right on out. Mike Miller, T's, or Jaws agent, you know, former NBA star, Mike Miller was sitting right next to T and appeared to get a chuckle out of the situation where I could tell.

By the way, the thought, Thunder beat the Trailblazers about 10 days ago. It's the only time the Trailblazers have lost in weeks. Until yesterday. Until yesterday. It had been. It had been the only time the Blazers had lost in weeks. Blazers are 8 and 2 in their last 10 games.

Only a game and a half back, actually only a half game back of the San Antonio Spurs for 12. I'll tell you, old scoot, man. No matter how ugly a rookie season is, you shouldn't give up on a number three overall pick and Scoot is starting to put some things together there. Well, but that we also have to say. It is absolutely bonkers that displays their team. I know they've gone on a nice winning streak lately, and they've played well.

It's bonkers. This team went through the trade deadline and didn't move anybody. It's just, it's crazy. It's crazy that didn't trade Robert Williams for anything. No, no aunt, right? Aunt didn't play in that game, I don't think. Correct. He did not play.

Yeah, Ann did not play. Sorry. No, it's just crazy that they, it's crazy they went through the deadline. It didn't move any of these guys again. And they're sitting here with the same team again and have four years now. They can't move Aiton. I mean, sure, but they, I mean, Robert Williams. They should have moved Robert Williams for whatever they could get.

Tell you what, how good would he look at a Lakers uniform? Would it look awfully good, you know. Again, assuming he could play. I mean, he left Saturday's game with a knee injury. So we'll see how long he's out. And those Lakers physicals are very, very thorough. Well, Rob's had enough injuries that I'm sure they would have found stuff. But look, by the way, if you want to flunk a guy on a physical,

of course. In the NBA, you can find it. You can flunk anybody on a physical you want. But yeah, it's just crazy that Portland's sitting here with the exact same team again and with all these same guys here again. And it feels like they've been in Stasis for three years now. Stasis is a big word, but a fancy one. Jackson, need a definitely.

Having said that, I mean, regardless of how you feel about that, we never, ever, ever talk about the Trailblazers. They did stand pat the deadline, but we should talk about how well they're playing, and specifically defensively. They've been number one team in the league in defense, I believe, since January 1st. I've been not realized that. Yeah, and certainly during the last like 15 games, they've been number one. They've gone 10 and 2. They've just so people know. So they've gone 10 and 2 in their last 12 games with two wins over the suns, two wins over the magic, wins over the bucks, the heat, the Pacers, and the Kings.

So a whole bunch of teams that are either playoff teams or trying to be playoff teams and been very impressive. And to Mani Kamara, the guy that they got as sort of the throw in. Oh, that's the guy who it pained the sons to give him up. I know. I know. It's not. It also remains insane. that entire, again, I'm not going to go back to that trade being, I'm not going back over that ground again.

I'm sorry for interrupting. Well, hold on. So this is very tough last week for the Phoenix Suns. The Beal trade thing, you never, I don't think it really ever got off the ground, but that fails. They try to trade Durant. That fails. Pisses Durant off. I think is headed for a breakup in the summer.

Of course, I don't know. I would wager on that for sure. Okay. But it doesn't look good right now. And one trade that they do make is a trade to offload Yusuf Nerkich, which was a money move, which was a smart money move because it saved him over $100 million, but also just backs up that that trade was a disaster, which we talked about in the pod the other day. But part of the reason why it was a disaster, not just that they had to get rid of Yuc Nerkich

with a first round pick. They did get Grayson Allen in that trade who's been okay, but certainly not. He's a nice role player. Yeah. But Tamara is turning into one of the. most impressive young defensive players in the West. He's the kind of guy that every good team wants. He's a primary defender who, you know, he's got a ways to go offensively,

but developing on that end. But he's a really good, versatile defensive player. And also, by the way, you can talk about what the Blazers didn't do. That trade for Denny Obia has looked pretty good. He's been, he's had a nice season, has been really good for them defensively. He's averaging 15 points, shooting the ball relatively. well. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's fourth in net rating and first

like two and a half points in defensive rating since they started that 10 and two stretch back on January 19th. And when they beat the Sons the other day in two games with the Sons, because the Sons were so small in the interior, Aiton had a 2020 game.

And it was clearly enjoying it. Yes, absolutely. Speaking of teams that didn't do anything at the deadline, real quick, before we go to James Hardin interview, I just want to bring up the Orlando Magic, who for a long time this year were one of the best stories going, especially as they dealt with injuries to Paolo Bancaro and Franz Wagner. Wagner was having one of the best, he was going to be an all-star. I felt both of them could have been all-stars. Bencaro, he really hadn't

played that much when he got hurt, but he looked great. They did win in San Antonio, or I guess at home against San Antonio on Saturday, by one, which was a, you know, a needy, a needy. did win for them. By the way, what's the status of the San Antonio bet? I'm not gloating at this point, put it that way. I think they're on pace. They're on pace to win 36 games. Did you see? That would win me

to bet. Did you see the finish in Charlotte where they also lost by one possession? Fox hit what they briefly thought. Yeah, at the buzzer. But he didn't get it off in time. That one, that one stung. The start of the Deer and Fox area, era being a... By the wonderful, I can afford to get Bon Tim's dinner.

Starting, the Aaron Fox era starting with escaping with a win over the reeling Atlanta Hawks and then losing on back-to-back nights to the Charlotte Hornets with half a team and the Orlando Magic who have been a disaster for a month. Not exactly a banner beginning for a Spurs team that's got a pretty difficult schedule, I believe, down the stretch. and, you know, obviously they certainly have the ability to get in the mix here for the play in picture in the West, but I believe they're already a couple games back. And, yeah, they're three games back right now.

And those are a couple games. If they're going to make a run like that, they would like to have back. Bro, you've got to, like, do your research as you're speaking on your phone because your screen is, like, shaking. And I'm getting. Sorry, my floor in the, my, I've had to change rooms because we're moving things around in our house. a variety of reasons or an apartment, and the floor in this room is not great. Also, nobody does, and I told you so tone like the USWB, Wendy. You know what I'm saying?

My God. Well, Victor had a 20-footer at the buzzer, or two seconds left that could have won him the game that he missed. I thought it was going in. Got a really good look. Franz Wagner had a great game. He had 33. But that was just their second win in the last 15 games.

They're two and 13. It's two rough lost for the spurs for sure. Two, anyway, Magic are two and 13 in their last 15. We know that they had established themselves as an elite defensive team. In this 15 games, they rank 17th on defense. Wow. He's completely collapsed on the defensive end of the floor. Paolo has not been playing.

He lost his mojo from where he was before. And he has been flat out rough since coming back. And like you said, it's really surprising because they did such a great job. of keeping their heads above water while they were without Palo, while they were without Brons Wagner. And for them to go through a stretch like this is just really, really surprising. Alvin Caros played in all 15 of those games. Orlando's offensive rating is 100 flat, 100.1, and their defensive rating is 112.1.

That is a negative 12 for 100 possessions with him on the core. Wizards territory. Now, I will point out there has been one major, major hole in the lineup during this downturn. I think we were finding. I was about to set this up, but go ahead. Well, I think we'll find out just how important Jayland Sluggs is to the Orlando Magic. Jayland Suck just played one game and 16 minutes across this stretch. And his net rating in those 16 minutes was 36.3.

Obviously, it's just 16 minutes. But every other guy on the team over this stretch is negative. literally. And yes, to McMahon's point, I think we are learning the vital importance of Jalen Suggs to this Orlando Magic Team. But the point is that this team has got expiring contracts. It's got all kinds of draft assets. And yet again, this is a team that was crying out for an offensive input or offensive influx. And they went through the deadline. Four teams didn't make trades at the deadline. Okay? Some of them was because they were stuck in the apron. You know, like the Timberwolves didn't make a trade. They had a little fantasy discussion with the sons

about Kevin Durant, but, you know, it's because they had nothing better to do, you know, because their second apron team. The magic have all the flexibility and everything in the world, and they just sat there and didn't do anything. You know, I talked to, and Jeff Welkman, their GM almost never does anything at the deadline. He, four or five years ago, he did those trades where he traded Vucevic at the deadline and he traded Evan Fornier at the deadline. Those were sale. They were selling. They were starting their rebuild. They haven't made a talent acquisition trade at the deadline in six years, which was when they traded for Markell Fultz, which is really like picking a player out cheap. They just don't do it. I talk to teams who talk with the magic and I say, hey, do the magic?

Do they have like conversations? And they're like, yeah, if you call them, it'll be a real trade conversation. but they don't make calls. They just, they take calls and they don't really engage. I mean, he's just, he doesn't want to do it.

Like, obviously, it's not like, it's just something he doesn't do. He doesn't do traits. And that's fine, but like, your team is in free fall.

You have the ability to do it. And now they're, they're in the play-in zone now. This is the team that was competing for second or third in the east at one point is now in the play-in zone. Yeah, the other way to look at it,

I'm sure that the way that they're looking at it is they are building around 22-year-old Paula Bencaro, you know, Franz Wagner, who is 23 years old, and, you know, Suggs is kind of the old head of the trio that they're building around, and he's all of 23. So a couple months older than Franz. So they are still a very, very young core, you know, despite the fact they've been in the playoffs, you can say they're still kind of early in their developmental phase. But they've shown enough that they've got the chance to at least be a playoff team. And do you want to amp that up and give them a chance to do some damage? Because certainly it doesn't look like a team's going to be able to do any damage at this point.

Well, like I said, the Palo numbers during the stretch have been rough. They're 14 points per 100 better with Franz Wagner on the court than on the bench during the stretch. They're six points worse per 100. with Paolo on the court than on the bench during the stretch. And Powell's played most minutes of anybody on the team. And, you know, over these last 15 games during this stretch as the team has been struggling, he's shooting 40% from the field and 25% from three and has almost got a one-to-one assist to turn over ratio.

Yeah, he got off to such a great start. And then the oblique knocked him out for a while. you know, we've talked about it before. The efficiency has always been something that needed to... The question mark. And it's also like, find a big-time score at the age of 23 that's almost always going to be the case with rare exceptions. Listen, if their ownership, Dan DeVos is...

If he's got him sold on it, that's all that matters. If your ownership supports, I'm sure their fans would love to see an influx. But if that ownership is on board with that slow boil, then that's fine. OKC went through a slow boil, you know, and... True. I mean, they really did. For two years. Sure.

But even last year, like, they're big, they didn't take a big swing in the trade. I find they acquired freaking Gordon Hayward, and the best thing you can say about that is it feed up cap space to get Hartenstein this summer. Wendy, we skipped over it, though. You mentioned on NBA today this week, this notion and you don't pull things from out of space. You're talking to people around the league. And you mentioned this. Just to be clear, before you say this, this is not my opinion. Right. This is from you talking, you talk to, gee. You have a spouse this opinion on the podcast, though, I'm going to say.

I have what? You have a spouse this opinion on the podcast at several points this season. A spouse, he's been married for a long time. He has said at several points this season, the Western Conference is wide open this season on the podcast. So, yeah, you basically said, hey, now 42 and 9, Oklahoma City is not feared in the West. And I'd like to hear you elaborate on that. And I've heard similar things, and I certainly heard that last year going in the playoffs, including from some folks that are within a very short drive for me.

And I think they beat them, if I'm not mistaken, the folks in the short drive from me. Correct. Last time I checked. Look, I think the thunder are awesome. I love watching them play. you watch Shea Gilgis Alexander. By the way, I was watching games this week with Eudanis Aslam, who was doing studio work from us. And we were watching The Thunder one night.

And he's like, it's crazy, man, that Shea doesn't sweat. No, you mentioned this. And now I'm obsessed with it. He's the coolest guy in every room. And right now, Shay is like the top of his game. Like, it's amazing to watch. And you guys know that I've been super high on Holmgren, for a long time. I love his mentality. I love his makeup. Yeah, you discovered him. That's what I did. I was

there when he was 14 years old in the gym in Minneapolis. But, you know, they're not a team because of their nature, you know, that in spite, that intimidates people. Well, when I wrote about the Thunder culture, I'm this like, it's almost like a Boy Scout style of culture. Like you got all these young, ambitious guys who, as I put it, they buy into the boring. And they do like the, you know, group interviews and Draymond got on his podcast and like ripped it like, ain't nobody going to fear you if you're doing like, you know, group interviews post game, which is I thought a Dremont trolling attempt. But, you know, but that's all, like they aren't a team. They're not like a team that intimidates opponents, despite the fact that they are tough as hell. They're the best

defensive team in the league by a significant margin. And they've got a guy, Shay just had a seven-game span where he hit 53 times and it would have been four, but they're blowing the, the, the, Bucks JV out so bad that he basically chilled the whole second half. I know. And in the game where they completely dismantled Cleveland. He scored 40 in three quarters. Dude, he's outscored opponents in a quarter like three or four times

in the last month. Yeah, I mean, he's absolutely slaying and not sweating. And, you know, like, and they haven't even like learned, like the thing about it is, like, I think, you know, I'm not saying there hasn't been

a few extraneous possessions where this hasn't been the case, but literally Chad Holmgren until the last three days, had never played power forward in the NBA, which is his position. Well, that's interesting. I tell you, there's also a trend

about teams going big again, and the Cavs are part of this. The Mavericks now certainly with 80s starting at the four are part of this. The Thunders are part of this. The Lakers are not. The last two champions have been built around teams that have great positional size.

And I think if you look at the history of the NBA, for as much as playing small became an in vogue thing, and particularly because of the Warriors and death lineup. At the end of the day, the thing that has always won in the NBA is being able to have as much skilled size as you can at every position. And I think we're seeing that trend shift back the other way in particular what teams really going with two bigs that can do a lot of stuff on the court.

Like Anthony Davis and Chet Holmgren and Evan Mobley and Jaron Jackson Jr. and these other fours that can do all this stuff. They're not, it's not exactly going back to Charles Oakley. By the way, Aaron Gordon was freaking awesome in that playoff run, including the finals. Correct. I mean, that was again, you, you hit on, we hit on that a ton on the pod, and you were on that from the beginning, Brian, having Michael Porter Jr. and Aaron Gordon and Nicola Yokic in the front court all at 610 or bigger, like, you know, and then KCP and Jamal Murray are big guards. Like, that was a team that was built around positional size.

The Celtics are a team. starting lineup, their guards are big, their wings are big, they're playing a couple seven footers, they're playing them together sometimes. That's been the way the league is shifted in general. And look, as far as the thunder goes, like, let's go back to the Celtics last year. Let's go back to the Nuggets the year before that. Like, until a team breaks through and wins a title, everybody is going to look at a team and say, well, they haven't done it yet. Here's why they're not going to do it again. And then when they win, you go back and say, they were always going to win. That's been the nature of how this has always worked. And that's the

challenge that the Thunder have to overcome over the next few months. So on Saturday night, Aaron Wiggins, who is, he's really having a hell of a season. Who you would have said at the beginning the year, wasn't one of the top seven players on the Thunder? Sure. He's somebody, yeah, you'd say he was like the ninth or tenth man. The back end, back end rotation player. Yeah. He had 26 and 11 in Memphis in that game. Last week in a game against SAC, he had 41 and 14. Against Toronto, last Friday, he had 18. Just another Thunder developmental, like, home run type of stuff. By the way, here's Aaron Wiggins. Overall pick. Here's Aaron Wiggins' contract, the next five seasons. This year, he's making 10.5 million. Next year, he's making 9.6 million. The following year, he's making 8.8 million. The following year,

he's making 7.9 million. And then in 2028, 2009, after his salary in 27, 28 is 4.2% of the salary cap, the Thunder have a team option for another 7.9 million that at that point, I think, will be under 4% of the salary cap. For a two-way wing, for a two-way wing who can play, guard multiple positions, can hit threes, can do all sorts of stuff. And it's important because they got three guys who are going to be making max or near max salaries. In Chase's case, a super max salary. Yes. And that's how you have playable depth around those guys by signing guys like Cam and Isaiah Joe and these other guys to long-term descending cheap contracts that give you depth and flexibility around them. The 55th pick in the 2021 draft, who they control.

through age 30. Meanwhile, Lou Dort was undrafted. Same thing. You know, Isaiah Joe was a late second round pick by the Sixers

who was cut and picked up on waivers. They claim on the waivers, yeah. I mean, by the way, Jackson looked up the number.

They've won seven in a row against the against the Grizzlies. And we're assuming that Shay will be there. We're assuming he'll get the Supermax.

We're assuming he won't be traded about midnight on a Saturday night. I would have assumed all those things about Luke. I made a joke on TV last week that said on June 30th that their Oklahoma State Troopers are going to flank Sam Presti as he walks into Shea's house holding the Max, Super Max contract paper.

I would stake my life on Shea being part of the funder. I will say I've done a lot of reporting over the years on all the things, the reasoning now for a trade that still shocked me with Luca, I've never heard a single concern about Jacob's conditioning or approach or anything like that. He doesn't sweat. No, I think they're pretty comfortable with the,

no, he sweats. It's just behind closed doors to get rid of the time. Well, I would just say, that I report what people say and I believe that the West is open, but I say that. I don't believe the West is open.

I don't. I say, that and I do not want. I'm going to say this right now. I do not want anything to be taking away from the awesomeness that is the thunder. I'm going to say this right now. I have my hotel reservations for the finals booked in Oklahoma City. Okay. You keep saying the West is open. The West is not open. If the Thunder don't make the finals, it's a massive disappointment. They are quite clearly the best team in the West. They've been quite clearly the best team in the league all season. It's not really close. Now, obviously, if they have injuries. This is a pivot for you because you,

been the one saying you don't think they've got enough on offense. So I think you've been more questioning them than I have. I am not, I am curious to see what they're, what ultimately it looks like in the playoffs when they get to the end. And I, I do have concerns about them winning a title with Jalen Williams as their secondary creator on offense because he has struggled in that role at different points. But look, I think their biggest competition to win the title is Boston. I think they're better than everybody else. And the Western Conference, all these teams are flawed in the West. And the Thunder, like, yes, they have some flaws on offense.

They have a net rating of 13. They are quite clearly the best team. It's not really debatable. And yes, like, you know, the Thunder like to talk about going from breakfast to brunch to lunch to dinner and like moving along. It's a five-course meal at this point. Stop. They are, they have potentially the MVP of the league where you might be getting an update this week on where that sits. and they've got a deep, they've got the deepest roster in the league.

You just mentioned Aaron Wiggins. They've got talent up and down the roster. Now they've got Chet and Isaiah Hartnstein playing together for the first time. Like, they should be in the finals for the first time since 2012. And if they're not, it's going to be a disappointment. Well, we already have plans, Wendy. You're not aware of this. But the old pink parrot, opening back up is the goat.

Going to be a hell of sports bar, 50 big screen TVs. And we're going to have at least an informal pot event there, Wendy. you are required to... During the finals? You're required to attend during the finals. Shall the Thunder do their part? The Chet stuff's fascinating, though. There were, the Thunder...

First of all, they gave the Mavericks a toughest series during the Western Conference playoffs last year, by far. Literally that series, it went six games, but the final cumulative score was even. There were two things that got the Thunder beaten in that series. Two flaws on their team. obviously thunder killer PJ Washington was also a big thing. But the biggest flaws, they got manhandled on the glass, especially in game six, when

Derek Lived the second absolutely dominated. And they had just this weird, funky fit with Josh Giddy, who they ended up benched him in the series. It was just a poor fit. They turned Giddy into Alex Caruso, a phenomenal fit, an elite defender to add to their mix of elite defenders, maybe their third best perimeter defender, as good as he is, which is a mouthful. And then they went out and they got Hartnstein, who is just an awesome rebounder, fits everything that they do. And now Hartnstein and Chet had not played one second together aside from preseason until the other night.

Now they've got 30 plus games to figure out how that fits, how that works, how they want to handle it in rotation, You know, they started them together. I bet you that's going to continue. How much, because the fifth starter has been a game-by-game decision all season long. You know, how much will Chet play five? How much will he play four? It was interesting. The other night when he came back, they played him with Jalen Williams, J. Will,

what's now the basic third string center. They played him with Jay Will a lot. And what that tells me is they really want Chet to get as many minutes as powerful. playing power forward to get those reps under his belt. Look, tiny, tiny, tiny sample size against the Toronto Raptors and all that. But Chet and Hartnstein played 15 minutes together. The Thunder were plus 13 in those minutes. But they've got 30 games to make that work. And they're clearly the favorites in the Western Conference, despite, to your point, Wendy, not necessarily being feared.

All right, real quick, before we get to James Harden, point something out about the Celtics this last week, won in Cleveland strongly. I mean, it came down to near the end, but they flex their muscle, then went into the garden on Saturday and slapped the Knicks across the face. So even though they spun their wheels a little bit,

they showed you the muscle against teams number two. Well, they're number two, but the other two teams in the east. And they did that, especially on Saturday, with both Chris Sperzingis and Drew Holiday not playing. And I continue to say that I think they are a team that feels like they are just trying to get through the season and get to the playoffs, much like to reference Cavs Corner,

the second edition of LeBron and Cleveland where that team generally felt like it was on cruise control from about December until April. And then in the playoffs, it became a wrecking crew. And look, I... You're around them a lot more than me. When I've watched them play, I don't see them... That Cavs team had nights where they just totally didn't care.

I have not seen that from the Southics. I think they're playing hard. Well, I understand. Brzingas said it himself. There were lions last year. They've been house cats in too many games this year. I think the Celtics are learning that it's a different thing to be the defending champions and to get the best shot from every single team, every single night.

And it's not the same as those LeBron Cavs teams because for his greatest Jason Tatum is, and he's awesome, and he's very likely to be a first team all-N-B-A player again this season. They don't have LeBron on their team. But they are- That last year in Cleveland, that last year that were they really wheezed to the finals, they had to win two-seven games series. I think they were 27th or 28th during the regular season and defense. Yes, I'm more talking about.

That was embarrassing. Yeah, I'm more talking about the 16 and 17 teams where they were, they knew they were the best team and they were just trying to get to the end. I think the Celtics presuming health are going to be just fine. And look, I know disrespect to Cavs Corner, but we should be looking at Celtics Thunder in June. I have reservations in Boston. You got reservations in like 12 cities. No, I have reservations in Cleveland, Boston, and Oklahoma City.

I will say I have canceled my reservations in Philadelphia a while back. Oh, hey, I'm shocked. This is the first Jason Tampen reference on the pod this year without an appearance from Steve Kerr's defense attorney. Better call Saul. Come on. Where are we? What's happening?

All right. I got a chance to talk to James Harden a little bit ago. Here's, I think it was a good conversation. Come for the discussion about his mustache and stay for some good comments. It was a good talk with James Harden. That's coming up right here, Hoop Collective. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right, James.

So you've done a time. How many commercials you think you've done over the years? You've done like dozens and dozens of commercials. I did. I was singing in the studio with Steph, beard commercials, just all over the place. I think my favorite one was the one you did with Chris Paul for State Farm where, like, his, like there was a fire and, like, you were pretending like you didn't do it, but it was very clearly, like, your silhouette on the wall.

And the reason I like is because I think Chris plays mad very well. Like, he's usually mad. He's always mad. Right. He's always mad. That was a really good way. Super Bowl commercial. Have you ever had a Super Bowl commercial before?

Yeah, I have. But, like, it's been a minute, obviously, but this one is just a little bit more special, you know, like Prangles is elite. You know, when they come to Crisp, they've been around for a very, very, very long time, and I think it was just, it's dope, man. Like, I'm excited about the spot.

I like you're a man of the world. You'll call them crisps. Like, it's very international. Yeah, you got to be. You know, you got a broke a little bit, so you got to hear that's a little bit. I know, you spent a lot of time in Europe. Yeah, I think, you know, you've got the facial hair market corner. It's actually kind of a miracle.

It's taken this long for Pringles. It's over. It's over. There's no more. You're done with it? There's nobody that can, you know, facial hair. Yeah, but it's always kind of cool to be involved in the Super Bowl, right? Because, like, now you're going to be talked about for several days.

Yes, it's far. You know, it's like, that's like the biggest weekend when it comes, you know, football. And just to be on TV. You know, being in a spot with Prangos is elite. You know what I mean? It's like it's like another level of attention, which, you know, I love to be a part of when it comes to things like this. So if you could in your 30s, James Harden, go talk to in your 20s James Hardin. What would you say to him?

I don't know, because I like, I do things and I live so I wouldn't be having to like look back and regret or feel like I'm missing something. If that makes sense. Yeah, so you're saying you don't have regrets. But like, your game has evolved a lot. So I feel like you've been somebody who does focus on evolution. So like... Even when I was like a little kid, like, I always can like shoot, but I couldn't do anything else.

Like I couldn't move for a, like I was just shooter, like a spot in a corner shooter. And then, you know, I started getting taller and, you know, able to move a little bit more. Even in college, like my handles wasn't that great. It was good, but it wasn't great. And I think just putting in the work and trying to figure, out ways to get better, I guess. But I don't know. I think just, I don't know, every aspect

in my game, I feel like I've gotten, you know, better and elite at a lot of things. Yeah, but, okay, there's a lot of guys who can dribble, but your, your footwork. Yeah. Your footwork is, you know. That's the separation right there. That's the difference. That's the difference. Yeah, because I feel like you're, you know, that's, you know, that's, you know, your ability to position your feet. Like, that was a real skill that you develop. Like, you know, that. That's my, that's everything for me.

Like, my footwork is how I get past people and how I create the advantage and do all these other. That's like my, my, probably my greatest skill for real. Do guys, younger players, like, do they ask you stuff like that? Do they ask you, like, what to work on? Yeah, they ask me, like, how do you draw fouls and how do you step back? And it's like, no, it's more than just that, you know. Do you like giving advice to younger players? Because you're kind of like a, like a, you're getting up there, man.

Sorry to say. See, I knew you was going to say that. Yeah, well, it's true. It is true, but you didn't have to say it. Anyways. Yeah, like, I love giving advice. I love being a leader, like, especially the guys that we got now. Somebody like Jordan Miller, who's, you know, left-handed and kind of crafty, you know,

asked me a lot of questions about, you know, for work and things like that. So, yeah, I love to give advice and, you know, help players. What do you think about, like, people talking about the game, like, they're kind of criticizing the game a little bit, it's kind of a popular thing right now to say too many threes or whatever, like, or like, just like people think the game is messed up or out of balance. I mean, what do you, I mean, you've been around a while now. You've played, you've been through Samaras. What do you think about that? I just, I mean, I don't want to, and I never want to feel like the old guy that's, but it's like, there's no, a lot of, there's not a lot of

vets on each team. So, like, you, they don't have the experience, like, when I was coming in, you had Naze Muhammad and Kevin Ali and, you know, uh, Nick Collins, and you have like vets to show you and show you how to be a professional. And then show you how to work and show you how to be like all those things and their steps to. And right now there's just a lot of young guys. And I get it. Like young guys, they want to, you know, they want to take a chance on them and things like that. But they don't know how to like be a professional.

They don't know how to work. They don't know how to. And so a lot of guys are in the NBA for a couple years and then you no longer hear of them. And it's like, that's what that's what the NBA wanted or that's what people want it. And I don't know. But when the threes was falling and the excitement was doing it, it was no problem. So I feel like it's a lot of things that that's wrong with it. But like, what am I going to do to change it?

You know what I mean? I know you can't do it to change it. I just think you've got perspective on it. Like, you were part of the analytics movement in all honesty. Facts. But I, like, I try to play the game the right way. I really didn't think about the analytics. Like, that's what the, you know, the guys in the front office.

was that's their job. I just try to play the game the right way and figure out what team, what pieces we had on the court to, you know, to make them better if that makes sense. And so the analytics were kind of, now they're blown out of proportion, like analytics is literally everything.

And if you don't, if you don't play by the analytics, like, you know, you don't have a chance of winning or we don't like this player because he doesn't fit our analytics. And there's times where they were saying analytics was important. And I'm like, no, no, no, we need to get him. And he helped our team. And then like the front of us,

office is wrong. You know what I mean? So there's, it's like, there's negatives and positives to it. There's pros and kinds. But like I said, I just go out there and try to do my job the best of my ability. So when I've been around the Clippers this year, several people have talked to me about the odd couple. And you're part of the odd couple along with Jeff Van Gundy. Does they talk about how you guys really, really have bonded and get along and like work together? And he leaves notes in my locker. He texts me. It's like a relationship for real. No, he's been great, though. He's like, he's definitely, like, he's one of a kind in a great way.

Like, he knows the game of basketball, like, really well. So, but you guys had some relationship back in Houston, right? You know, he lived there and you were playing there. Like, you had some connection. Not really, though. Not really. You know, he was, you know, we see each other, but we really didn't have, we didn't have each other number or anything.

Yeah. He just, like, it was like, love at first sight. We, like, hit it off. He really helps me, man. And like, even like he, he's able to talk to me and put me in my place, you know, and correct me, help me with things. And I respect him a lot. So, like, it's like a real, it's like a real partnership. In a way, you're kind of similar because you both are kind of like showing people that, like, you still got it.

Because, you know, like, Van Gundy, you know, he couldn't get a job. Like he, for years, people would want to hire him to be a head coach. And he was like, no, I'm not going to do it. And then he kind of wanted a job and he couldn't get one. And now, you know, he's back in it. And, like, people thought, baby, you were past your prime. And this year, you're having a great year, all-star level. And, you know, really leading the clippers of surprise season.

I feel like you kind of guys are kind of doing some of the same thing. Yeah, for sure. Like, I don't know why he couldn't get a job. Like, especially being around him and, like, his energy, the work, he puts the work in. Like, he has us prepared every single night. That's one thing. But, like, his energy and his excitement, like, he's one of those guys where you come to work And you love to be around him because he's like, he's about his work, but then he's funny, too.

So, like, you know, that who love, like, you love that, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I don't know why he couldn't get a job. And then I don't know why people overlook me. Like, I haven't been doing this for a very long time. Like, I'm not, like, I can't lead a team still at this age. So what people have to have their perspective or their opinions or whatnot and it is what it is. Well, yeah, but I mean, like, when you left Houston, you had two stops where it didn't work out.

Like, there were many ways where it didn't work out. I would agree with you. But like that, that's what tarnished your reputation was. And by the way, not just you, other players involved with that too. But like, it just showed them what people thought about you. I mean, like, you know, you wanted to be traded. And it took a while to get traded because it was complicated, you know, contracts was complicated. So like.

It wasn't that complicated. Just to let you know, it wasn't that complicated. It could have been a lot easier, a lot smoother. Other people made it complicated. But that's, but you, I agree with you. So. But back to like, I. I think just me always having the ability and the work ethic that I have,

like the game is always going to be there, if that makes sense. It's going to be there. I agree. And then you're proving that this year. Before we go, let me just say this. You've been on a lot of teams where there was huge expectations to start the season. Like, oh, this team is a championship team. Like, you know, definitely in Houston, definitely in Brooklyn, definitely in Philly.

This team that you're on now, the expectations weren't very low. Like, you know, like they may give the thunder like a lot of. pick. Completely, completely different expectation. And like you and Norm Powell, who's been great, like obviously you would probably rather prefer to be on a team that may, maybe, you know, playing in the finals. And maybe you'll pull some miracle. I don't think that's going to happen. But what has this experience been like? Sorry. Prove me wrong. You know, roll it back. I prove me wrong. What has this experience been like where people where like, it's like, you've been on this team where it's like, man, these guys are like fun and and refreshing. That's exactly.

what it is. And it's like they, they, they work. And we're all on the same page. So, like, they're excited for each other's success. Like, we're excited for it. Like, it might be normal one night. It might be zoo one night. It might be me. Like, that's like the exciting part about it, which hasn't been that way in these, you know what I mean, in a minute. So. And then now getting Kauai back, you know, and ramping him up slowly. It's like we, we really believe, like, we have a chance to compete with anybody, you know, with our, with the full roster. So, you know, Yeah, you know, honestly, that is fair because if Kauai is playing at top level and you're playing top level, I don't want you in a one game playoff, honestly. Yeah, because we're going to get after you.

And, like, healthy. Health is, is a factor of any team. Like, you know what I mean? So, but if we are healthy, like, take these nine games and, you know, take this all start breaking. And then after that, start ramping up. And we're going to really figure out who we are and who we can really be as a team. And if we really got a chance of this thing, which I think we all do believe that. So I think we're all excited about it.

All right. Hey, congrats on your commercial. Thanks for your time. And hey, I'll see you in the playoffs, man. Enjoy Paris. Don't get too taken. They work me too hard. All right, me.

All right. Thanks for your time. I'll see you on the line. All right, brother. Okay, thanks to James Harden. That was a good conversation. I really enjoyed it. It was a little bit ago.

We had to put it on tape just for scheduling purposes. So he didn't know at the time that the half of the league was going to get turned upside down. But the Clippers are still doing very well. Thank you for his time. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. you to Bon Temson McMahon. Thank you for watching the Hoop Collective and thank you for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective, which is presented by State Farm, and we will talk to you later this week.

Adios amigos.