Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Any Solution For NBA Tanking? + Ja Morant’s Trade Market

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to break down the state of tanking in the modern NBA including some of the measures certain teams are taking and how the league can fix it moving forward. Then, we discuss what Ja Morant’s trade market looks like for Memphis and talk Jaylen Brown’s unique fine request before finishing with some more key headlines around the NBA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Sunday evening,

joining us from New York City, Tim Bunton. Hello, everybody. I want to know what this Howdy pennant is in the background of our guy's new fancy setup in his new house. Yes, joining us from New Diggs in Dallas is Band McMahon. Howdy, partners,

that actually was sent to me by one of our crack Sports Center producers, Jessica Showbar, aka ShowBizzy. She got it, I'm going to have to check with her. She got one of the stops from the 50 states and 50 days thing. Wyoming, perhaps somewhere, if not there, somewhere similar. Somewhere with a rodeo. Somewhere where they say howdy.

All right, well, we say howdy here. Yes, we do. Do they say howdy in Utah? I don't believe so. Okay. I can't say I've ever been greeted without salutation in my trips to Salt Lake City. All right. Well, it's Sunday night. There's a bunch of NBA games tonight.

Several that came down to the wire. Jamal Shed with a game winner in Toronto to beat the Sixers. Bad loss for the Sixers, by the way, Bontems. They were up by four with 20 seconds left and lost it. They were up by four, 19 seconds to go, had a comedy of errors that led to overtime. Jamal Shed hit the shot to tie the game at the end of regulation and set it to overtime. Then they were up by four under two minutes to go in overtime. blew that lead.

Could have been in fourth place in the Eastern Conference Monday morning, going into another game in Toronto against the Raptors. And instead, they are not. And Toronto got a nice win. The Timberwolves had a victory over the Spurs by one point with Ann Edwards hitting the last minute game winner. I don't know how much time was left when he made the... About 15 seconds.

He dusted Victor Wenbaniama got a nice runner off the glass. It was a really nice move. I mean, the Spurs, I was at the Spurs game Saturday night in Boston, 8 o'clock tip, Eastern in Boston. They leave, they get to Minnesota, think they get to their hotel between 2.30 and 3 in the morning on Saturday, I guess Sunday morning. And then they have a game at 6th Central against the wolves. That is a, I actually check with the league because you can imagine the Spurs were less than amused at that back to back. Saturday. So our friends in the front office were there at the game. I was talking to them about it. I actually checked with the league because I thought it had to be a 24-hour gap between from start to

start of the games. And I was told it's either 22 or 22 and a half. There wasn't an exact answer. So the fact that it was 23, it was illegal back-to-back, but it was about as tough a one as you can have, given the travel and everything else. Yeah, well, they got an hour, but they didn't feel it. Well, they were like 19. They blew a 19. Let's not play too much violin music here. Anyway, a couple of good games. Obviously, they'd like to pull the game out, but there are some, there's some extenuating circumstances there. I got to tell you, one of the, probably the thing that I've been thinking about from this weekend, though, is a photo that a league executive sent to me today.

It came from Andy Larson, one of the writers who covers the jazz for the Salt Lake Tribune. Friend of the pod. Good man, longtime NBA writer. It was a photo that he posted on his ex account on Saturday night. And the photo was in the fourth quarter of the Jazz game, home game against the Charlotte Hornets. And the photo was not of the action. It was of the sideline. Oh, it was of the action.

And Will Hardy, their friend of the pod, jazz coach, was leaning sort of sitting against the scorers table with his legs crossed. He was sort of leaning back against it. And Danny Aange, the team president, had come down from his seat in the stands. It was sitting next to Ryan Smith, the owner of the jazz, having what looked like an animated conversation during the game. The final score of this game was 150 to 95. It was a worst loss in Utah Jazz history. I guess the New Orleans Jazz lost a game by 56 at one point. And what this executive, he sent me the photo that Andy posted, and he just wrote the following text.

the picture of tanking. Oh, no. And, you know, like, I don't, the thing about it is, I really want to talk about this now because I don't want to talk about it in the spring when this is going to be a daily conversation in the NBA, because here's the thing. The tanking, there's going to be more teams tanking

because the Mavericks are going to start tanking. I think the Mavericks are going to tank organically. Okay, well, whatever. I mean, they're now, what, four and 15 when Anthony Davis doesn't play? Yeah, McMan. They're a 500 team when AD plays and four and 15 when he doesn't. And he will not be playing for quite a while now. I don't anticipate he plays again this season.

That's not yet been determined, but I would say even if he- He ain't playing for a couple months at the absolute earliest. Yeah, I mean, he's, I mean, I saw the photos of him. He's wearing a full slink. Yeah, and let me ask you this. If AD doesn't play, why would they bring Kyrie back this season? They should not. It's not even really, it's not even controversial.

I mean, neither one of them should play again regardless. Okay. So, and I'm going to tell you something, guys. I don't think that the Grizzlies are looking for a player in return for John Morant, which we'll get into later. I don't think they're like looking for a player that's going to have them shoot up their rankings to try to make. Or I guess they're in 10th place right now. Stay in.

Let's set that to, let's set that. until later. Well, I think a different, that's a different part of it. Okay, but your point is the grizzlies might be in that tank line. And if that's the case, I've got some advice for Zach Climand. Get Jha healthy and back on the floor. There's six and 12 when Jha plays this season and $500 when he doesn't. Well, listen, listen, that, that, we got to get into Jha, right?

But if we're going to do. We'll get there in a minute. I want to talk about the situation that's developing first. Well, that's what I'm saying. If we're going to talk about this topic, right, there's two teams to talk about. We've talked a lot about Utah ad nauseum over the past few weeks because this has been going on for a while. They won some games early like they have the last couple years. They're flirting with keeping their pick.

It's your three of pick protection. Yes. Well, the Washington Wizards are doing the exact same thing. That's right. Now, it is hidden a little bit because the team got off to a very bad. start, but they won some games recently. They now make this Trey Young trade. Trey Young had a quad contusion, was not, you know,

was on his way back from this knee injury. It was a two-month injury. He was back from it. And now it's well. Trey's knee is messed up. We got to get him healthy. We'll see where he's at. And again, for all the talk about the jazz and their top A protected pick,

which it is, the Wizards have a top eight protected pick that if it ends up ninth or lower, goes to the Knicks, and guess what? The Wizards are not going to give up that pick, no matter what. So whatever they have to do

between now and April 15th, they're going to do to keep that pick. Just like the Jazz are doing, and they're going to be the two shining beacon examples of this issue that has repeatedly hung over the league over the past few years. And, you know, I mean, we've been talking about it. It feels like for a month already, Brian.

And I think we're going to be talking about it for another three. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not going to get into the intricacies of what's going on. And just to be clear, like, I'm not arguing that the jazz and wizards shouldn't be doing this. I'm just saying, like, I'm denoting that it's happening. I mean, when you talk to, when I, look, I am not a draft expert, okay? but from the folks that I've talked to, there's four guys people are excited about. Maybe you can argue there should be five.

I think I would actually say the number's higher, but it's at least that many guys. It's a very, very deep draft. Let's just for the sake of arguments say that there's four. And correct, if you think I'm wrong, A.J. DeBanza, Darren Peterson, Cameron Boozer, Caleb Wilson, maybe there's another. But the point is, Utah and Washington need to finish with one of the four worst records to 100% guarantee they get their pick and maximize their chance of getting those four guys. I don't even blame them for what they're doing. What I'm saying to you is, you think this is bad now. We're in January. It's going to get so much worse. So in this particular game that the jazz,

that the jazz tanked, Larry Marketing was ruled out due to rest. They did not have a game the day before. They did not have a game today. So there's no back to back. It would be well, and so you would say, well, why would they have a game? them rest against Charlotte at home. And the answer is because Charlotte had the exact same record as Utah. And by the way, where are the jazz this week? Dallas for a baseball series. They're playing a baseball series in Dallas against the match.

You want to talk about a tank off? Oh, boy. There's going to be some maneuvering. That's happening. More hoop collective podcast after this. I actually think, you know, because I don't like to entertain the theater of the hypothetical like, you know, I respect people to come up with these like seven point plans on like how to fix the all-star game. You know, here's my doctoral essay on why there should be 60 games or 41.7 games or whatever.

Like I respect all that. That's not feasible. It's not feasible. It's not feasible, you know, like people who are like their draft should be abolished. I appreciate your your work. I'm sure it's right, you know, It's not happening. I'm sorry or good for you, whatever. Exactly. But one thing I'm going to tell you is that as I see the way teams react to get, you know, single digit percentage points advantages in the draft, it is now crystal clear to me that the NBA Cup must be tied to some sort of draft reward. Not any other reward, not monetary, not, you know, playoff reward.

I don't like that. I like McMahon's idea of the ultimate tiebreaker. No, nope. because I can document with my own doctoral thesis all of the things that these teams do materially to even move up two points in the draft. It is. I hear you, but you can't give good teams the lottery. Yeah, the issue with doing that. You're missing my point.

I don't actually argue my point is that these teams crawl over glass for percentage points in the draft. The inherent problem. Everything else is not, they don't take seriously. The inherent problem we have here, right, is you've got a system where in the NBA in particular, getting a game-changing high-level player, a Darren Peterson, a Cooper flag, a Luca Donchich, a Victor Wembenyama. Like, in the NFL, for example, you can build a team a lot of different ways. In baseball, even though we have seen teams drive the car all the way in the ditch for years, because they just have a straight system where if you lose the most games,

you get the most money in the draft. That being said, you can build a baseball team in a lot of different ways. In the NBA, while we're getting to a harder cap system and there's a bit of a flatter talent base now and you can maybe construct a high-level team in different ways. We'll see how the playoffs play out this year. At the end of the day, the overwhelming evidence is to be a championship level team in the NBA. You have to have one of the five to ten best players in the sport on your team.

and maybe two of them. And the best way to do that, and for probably two-thirds of the teams in the league, the only way to do that is to get them in the draft. So- We're going to get lucky because Denver did it with the guy who was picked in the second round. But they drafted him.

I mean, yeah, you're not always going to draft them with the first pick. I would be the first to say the draft is an exact size. But if you look at the best players in the sport, almost all of them, many of them, not almost all of them at this point, but many of them are with the team that drafted them. or a team that traded for them one year in like shit. Right.

So you have a situation where we all can sit here and agree. The wizards are doing the right thing. The Jazz are doing the right thing. The Nets last year and this year are doing the right thing. Like these teams are doing the right thing, but it's a situation where the incentives are set up to where there are a lot of teams that are very bad and have a lot of incentive to be very bad.

So the question is, is there a way to change those incentives. Right. And that's where the league is trying. The right thing for these franchises is a very wrong thing for the league. And I firmly believe that the fact that tanking is a smart strategy is the NBA's biggest problem. I don't know how to fix it.

They're searching for ways. Well, there's certain, okay, what's over the last 25 years, our sort of adulthood, now, McMahon's could be debated. What's been the best run NBA team? Spurs. Okay. Spurs have not made the playoffs since 2018. Okay. I will list you the best run NBA teams draft picks. Okay. 2018, the last year they made the playoffs. Lonnie Walker, 2019. They drafted Luca Schaimanich and Kelton Johnson. Those were picks 19 and 29. Lonnie Walker was 18. 20, the drafted Devin Vassell. It turned into a good pick, but he's a role player. So was Kelton Johnson, but go on. I mean, Cal Johnson was a great pick at 29. and Devilsel's a good pick at 11.

Right, but they're still not, we're not making the playoffs, Jens. Right. Sure. And they didn't. 2021, Josh Primo. We're not even going to go there. 12th pick.

No good. That didn't go well. 2022, ninth pick. This year they got three firsts. Okay, this is they're going to be their year. They're really under their rebuild. The ninth pick they took Jeremy Sohan. But the 20th pick, they took Malachi Brannum,

St. Mary High School. 25th pick Blake Wesley. How are we doing? Not great. That's an 0 for three. Okay. These are picks. 9, 20, 25, 12, 11, 19, 29.

Uh-oh. Look what we have here. 2003, number one pick, Victor Wembeyanama, 2002. Good choice. Number eight, number four pick. They traded number eight. Stefan Castle.

2025, number two pick, Dylan Harper. Who's got maybe the best-looking future in the league now? Is it because the best franchise, best-run franchise in the league is crushing it in the draft? No, bros. Because they had all these picks. It is because they're crushing it in the draft. Well, because the picks are in the top four.

Well, but they. So that's what I'm saying. Like, the greatest team in the 20, like, they had all these picks to try. And they didn't. They were laughing. Yes, they got exceedingly lucky three years in a row. I understand. But that's what I'm saying.

I'm, the point I'm making is that this is why the tanks are happening. And also, how did they, how did they have their team in the league for 25 years? If you give them picks in the teens, they're not going to be able to draft guys. you're going to make a difference. Just let me hop back. And what was the most important piece of their five championship teams? Yes. There was no one overall pick Tim Duncan who they tried to get.

And David Robinson, who they got the number one pick for before that. And so there's a couple things here, right? The Spurs got very lucky and got these three picks in a row in the top four. All right. The NBA made this grand push to flatten the lottery odds. Okay. I think that is backfired. I think it is, if you look,

repeatedly over time, all sorts of teams from the 7 to 11 range in the blottery have leapt up and gotten Zion Williamson, John Morant, the Lakers in part got Anthony Davis because they jumped up from 11. Cooper Flagg just jumped up last year. Dylan Harper was, I think, the Spurs were ninth.

The Hawks the year before, yes, they got Zach Rishishay. He is not so far looking like an all-star, but they jumped up from 10. All of those teams all were like, okay to pretty good teams starting to be on the way up, that all leapt up ahead of really bad teams that in the past had a much, much, much higher percentage chance of getting any of the dominant players that have come through.

Including, by the way, the Wizards and the Jazz, which is why those franchises are in year three of desperate protection mode when it's a mid-lottery protection. Right. In this last year, the four teams with the worst records, Charlotte stayed fourth. The other three fell out of the top four entirely, right? In a draft where Vijay Hedgecombe went third, he's awfully good. Dylan Harper went, Philly's another team that obviously had tank to keep their pick.

But Philly got VJ. Edgecombe. He's awfully good. Dylan Harper goes to the Spurs. He's awfully good. And we know how good Cooper is. So like the reformed the league tried to do to flatten the odds to not have it be as incentivized for the worst teams to tank, I don't think has worked in the way that they hoped that it would.

So the question now will be, okay, what is the league going to do? One option is to look at this mid-lottery pick protection, which has been sort of the most glaring example of teams trying to manipulate the system. Spurs last year, the Jazz this year, the Wizards this year, the Warriors when they got Harrison Barnes, all of those teams all had top six, top seven, top eight, the Mavericks when they kept their top ten protection. picked pick, bailed out of the play in to keep their pick. All of those were all the same thing. Now, there's very different arguments on whether you should do that or not, which we've talked

about before. Do you want to limit teams' ability to negotiate, et cetera, et cetera? The other option then, I think, is to look at the broader incentives in general and say, how do you fix the incentives that we're talking about, where teams at the bottom are incentivized to lose all the way through as much as possible. And that's where the idea that I have thought a lot about, we've talked about it a bunch that I think is the best fix to this, that I think solves the most problems without creating new ones, or at least many new ones,

is the one where at some point in February, whether it's after the All-Star break or at some date and the schedule, a number of games, whatever, it goes from losses going towards the lottery to wins going towards the lottery. So there's at least a third of the season where all of these teams we're talking about are incentivized.

to try to win as much as possible, especially when those games are coming at the end of the season, when everybody is fighting for playoff positioning and the idea that you have some games where teams are just openly not trying to win and then other games where teams are desperately trying to win just has an uneven playing field. I don't know if that's a perfect fix.

I don't know if there is a perfect fix, but if you're going to try to do something, that to me is the kind of thing that might work. You know, what a lot of people will tell you, including Europeans, well, they will bring up the word relegation, Well, again, this is where, you know, like in Europe, the bottom of three teams get knocked down a league. That's not realistic. Again, you could do a doctoral review on why this is wonderful.

The NBA is a league that's entirely set up with the entire, like, it's the complete polar opposite of a league that's built on relegation. They want everybody to have a chance. You need 23 votes. Why would one, why would one owner vote for relegation? Just forget that. The NBA is, the whole idea of the NBA is for everybody to have a chance to win in a relegation, system, the teams are the most money, get the best players. That's not, that's like the opposite of what the NBA is trying to do. Right. Well, that's, so, but so, and that's, so, okay, what you're talking about,

uh, bond temps is, goes up to one of my favorite quotes of all time, which I've said on the pod before, and that's, and I reference it a lot. It's practically second behind, um, actions over words. Charlie Munger, the late, Berkshire half the way. Back to Omaha, baby. That's right. Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. So that's what you're, seeing right now, you show me the incentive, which in the case of the jazz and the wizards, get in that top four and I'll show you the outcome. Last year, show me the incentive with Philly. Top six, baby. Come hell or high water top six. Well, listen, the Sixers as late as like January, I think honestly, we're telling me, we don't think we can be that bad. And then their season went

so badly that they were like, you know what? Maybe we can be that bad. And they were that bad. And they the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. By the way, I heard the same thing from the Mavs weeks ago now, but basically saying, dude, we could try to be bad. We can't be worse than like eighth in the lottery odds. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Again, show me the incentive. I'll show you the outcome. And I, you know, so I... And that's why I think you've got to tweak incentives. That's why I feel strongly that I like the, you know, March 1st or whatever flip it to where the wins count towards your lottery odds. I also like if you get to you. You know, if you're you are a bottom, we can discuss number, three team, four team, whatever it is, multiple years,

that I don't think those teams should be able to get luxury tax payments. Or you could do something very, very simple and just do it and, you know, fix it in one sentence, which is that every lottery team has the same odds. So that, you know, if you're, you're, you know, if you're a non-playoff team, you're not, you're at least playing, you're not keeping your star player on the bench for rest when there's days off on each other side. Okay. I mean, the moral hazard is that.

You can for the playing tournament if you do that. Yes. The moral hazard of that. Hunting playing games. Exactly. The moral hazard of that is are you seeing an eight, nine playing game to play the Oklahoma City Thunder in the first round where somebody just says, yeah, we're just going to sit all of our top nine guys today and we're just not going to make the playoffs.

You know, the other thing about the, you know, European soccer gets a lot right. And one of it is relegation. That's not an option in the NBA. one of the things that, you know, Adam Silver is trying to do with this NBA Cup is to give teams that are not potentially championship teams a chance to win something. And like. And raise a banner? Well, I would do it. I mean, you know, the, but obviously, you know, people laugh at it.

But like, for example, the team that I follow in, in England, Toddenham Hotspur, last year had a miserable season in the, the Premier League. They finished like 15th or 16th, like their worst finish in decades, okay? So bad that the coach and the chairman ended up getting fired, okay? But they were playing in this other competition, the Europa League, which they won. And it was their first trophy of any kind in 17 years. And at some point in the year, they prioritized the Europa League over everything else. And they had a parade through the streets of London celebrating this championship and then a week later fired their coach. But like it kept them engaged. And that's kind of the, you know, it's, you know, the NBA Cup is probably decades from being something like that. It is also in

the wrong time in the calendar. But like, that's part of, I mean, I guess technically Adam Silver is trying to create something new to sell, which they did. They sold it to Amazon for the next. next 11 years. So, you know, but I think there's, you know, they're not just, you know, they're trying to address that. They're not just sitting there in New York, not doing anything about it. They're trying to address it. I'm just saying, like, Will Hardy is, you know, guys, Will Hardy is an excellent coach. We all agree with this. Yes, we do. He called one time out in the first 18 minutes of the game yesterday. His team was down, his team was, his team was, his team was down 35 in the second quarter

with seven minutes that he had called one time out. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a brutal situation for everybody involved. And it's not, uh, it's, it's not, it can both be the right thing to do and a very not fun thing to do, especially when you're the person who's standing there with your arms

crossed and you're leaning up against the stanchion and you're the one taking all the Ls on your record over and over and over again, despite being an excellent coach. And it's really a rough way to go about things if you have to do it for multiple years because it's completely counterproductive to your player development program. Like player development's a euphemism in a lot of times for tanking because it's like, oh, we'll play the young guys and sit the vets. but when you like when you have promising young players that aren't in competitive situations

and that are developing bad habits because frankly losing is part of the plan you know there's rot that can creep into your in your team in your franchise yeah well look trey young is kind of a hard player to learn to play with it's going to take you a little bit of time to learn to play with them because he plays a style that's a little bit different and um it would probably be really good for the Wizards to get a few months of playing with them. But not more important than drafting a guy in the top three.

It's not even that. It's keeping the top eight protected pick. That's what it is. And not unique. You trade for a guy with a, you know, kind of a silent agreement that he's going to sit. When do we see that recently?

That's exactly what Toronto did with Brandon Ingram, who then got a, you know, 40 plus million dollar per year salary. Part of the reason that marketing got that contract, which a lot of people thought was a little too high, was because he had to sign up for this. And part of the reason Brandon Ingram got that contract, which a lot of people thought was a little too high.

I'm not saying the whole reason. But if you're telling a player, you're not going to play the rest of the season before you become a free agent, the player's not going to go with it unless he's protected. So, you know, you have to say on Brandon Ingram, and you can scoff at this if you want. is I believe the league checked out that situation, and I do think his ankle was actually fairly jacked up.

I'm not saying that the goal, the goal was the same for everybody there. But that situation, I think, might be slightly filed differently than what's going on in Utah. What's going on in Washington? After he heard his knee, he came back to five games. No, listen, I, I, I'm not, I'm not, I don't want to wrap the Wizards over the Nucson I'm not like there it's not there we all we all right we all understand what's going on we all think it's the right thing for these teams to do again it goes back to the problem of the incentives and do you bring up the NBA Cup the NBA created the NBA Cup I would say for two reasons mainly one to have a thing to sell which they did successfully because they're very good at selling things uh and two for as much as Adam talks about having another thing to win, I guess it's three, because I do think there's some validity to that.

The other reason they created it, and I think probably the main reason, is they were trying to find a way to juice up the first two months of the schedule when people were watching college football in the NFL. And I would say the NBA Cup is not the, you know, it's not the NBA finals, but I think it has achieved its objective of getting people to pay a little more attention in November.

and the first half of December. People care a little bit more about the NBA than they did three years ago. Now, this entire topic we're talking about is about the schedule from the All-Star game, especially from the All-Star game until April 15th. When, as we all know, and we all really like watching basketball

and we enjoy it beyond it being our jobs, those two months are full of wretched games. And that's by design. So are you really going to sit here and keep going in perpetuity and having a third or more of your schedule by design be set up with teams flagrantly not trying to play and trying not to win? For understandable reasons, but that go against putting the best product on the court, which is why I appreciate how McMahon has framed this over and over again, that it is one of the main things the league should be worried about because, If you tell people over and over again that you don't need to watch these games, newsflash, they're not going to watch the games. They're going to do something else.

All right. So John Morant, Shams reported a couple of days ago, John Morant is available on the trade market. There's this awkward thing where the Grizzlies are flying. I think as we speak right now are flying over to Europe. The Grizzlies and the Magic are playing two games in Europe this upcoming week, one game in Berlin. and one game in London. These are showcase games for the NBA. They are planned out a year plus in advance.

There's a lot of business that goes around them. There's a lot of promotion that goes around them. They're picking areas where they're trying to engage fans and engage sponsors. The NBA right now is trying to establish a new league in Europe. And Berlin and London are two of the places where they are looking very seriously at going. all of this stuff is very important. Jha is one of the signature players in here. And he comes over in a situation where he is trying to be traded

because his team is moving in another direction. So that's less than ideal. He has missed a number of games in a row here as he's dealt with the lingering calf issue. But it's important for Mbizance for him to play McMahon. So at some point he is going to not only play but have to do interviews because he is, again, the headliner. of this thing. He can't run away from this over there.

Well, it's also important for Jaws business, especially Jha as a guy who has a signature shoe with Nike. Correct. So the problem is here, it's not a situation that's dissimilar to what's going on to Tray Young is that Jaws value is not great right now. forget about the fact that he has had these off-court issues and has faced suspensions. By the way, his most recent suspension was a team suspension this year. But his production level, as he's dealt with injuries over the last several years, has been falling off. And he is right now having arguably his worst year of his career. unquestionably is worse here of his career when you factor in efficiency

and the fact that, again, they're six and 12 with him on the floor. He is three-point shooting is basically the worst in the league for someone who shoots as much as he does. Has jump shooting, period. Okay. So this is not the time to trade a player, yet here they are, McMahon. Well, yeah, and look, people, oh my gosh, I can't believe they couldn't get more for Tray Young. If that's what you think, you haven't been paying attention. You know, Bobby and I wrote about this in early December,

and it's not like it was some kind of new concept here. We lumped the Mello ball in. And by the way, Lamello's shown some flashes. The Hornets have put some wins together, but it was Jha, Trey, and Lamello, these three max point guards, former All-Stars, young, either entering their prime or what should be in their prime. The perception around the league was that all could be available.

Trey obviously became very available, not just available. They were desperately trying to dump him. That's why they took back an expiring deal and, you know, kind of a flyer on a former lottery pick who's had a middling career so far. You know, you know, Sean's reported that the grisies are looking for young players and, you know, multiple picks for jog. good luck with that because, you know, the feedback that we got on Jha wasn't any more favorable than the feedback that that we got on Trey. As a matter of fact, in some cases, it was even worse. And again, he's not attacking the rim nearly like used to be.

He did recently have a 40-point game that was kind of like a reminder or even an indication of, hey, if I want to, I still can. How often does he want to? how often is he even available? He's a bad jump shooter who's shooting more jump shots than ever, and I'll just quote an East executive from them. The combination of pain in the ass, injury prone,

not that good anymore in big contract, is a bad one. I mean, look, at the end of the day, this is no different than the trade situation. So the question, like the trade situation is, is there a team? That's the question. I think if you look at the fact,

fact that this story's out there, it means that Memphis is open to do a deal. And if Memphis is open to do a deal, like Atlanta was open to do a deal, like we spent the last few weeks walking through that situation, it comes back to, is there somebody who will take John Morant? And I would say the answer is very much, I don't know. I think there's a couple of possibilities maybe, but like we talked about with the Tray Young situation, there are very few teams that need a point guard. there are very few teams that could take on a $40 million salary, and there are even fewer teams that can do both. So I would guess that John Moran is traded like Tray Young was traded

between now and February 5th, because once these things tend to start down the track, they tend to get to a resolution, and the fact that it's out there would seem to me to be an indication to Grizzlies one where the other are ready to exit state. right from this situation. However, I will reserve the right to say there might not be an exit from the situation. And because of that, we might just be sitting here on February 6th with John Moran on the Grizzlies. Well, I mean, you're shaking your head, McMahon, but if nobody wants

to trade for him, I think there's teams who want to trade for him. It's just a matter of whether the offer is going to be palatable for Memphis. Well, I mean, he's a distressed asset. So, you know, for example, like Milwaukee's been mentioned, like Milwaukee can't give you significant value in a trade. They don't have it to offer. But don't, don't, don't spend time talking about the framing. Okay, but here's the deal. It's the Tray Young situation.

Exactly. Here's the thing, though. The Grizzlies have to trade Jha. You can't have the toothpaste out of the tube and then, you know, have to deal with the situation. He cannot be on the roster after February 6th. It will be an absolute mess. He's already had a very loud, ugly confrontation with their rookie coach.

Everybody in that arena, much less locker room, knows they want to get rid of him. And the feeling is mutual. You can't, you cannot. It's reached a point where John Morant's career cannot continue in Memphis. I would agree with you. However, I would just reiterate, I think there was one team. interested in trading for Trayon. So there might not be a team interested in trading for John Morant.

And if there's not, it's hard to trade him if nobody wants it. I think there are some teams that are interested. I'm just not sure Memphis is going to want what the offer is. Well, they're interested because they think they can get them for, it's an upside play for pennies on the dollar type of view. They've got their own contract that they're, the poo poo platter. Yes. So.

I mean, I would still. bet that he's traded between now and February 5th somewhere. I have no idea where. But I think that there is at least a chance he won't be because either no one's really interested or the only things that are of interest are just for whatever reason a worse situation than telling John to park until the summer and trying again that. So let's go back in some history.

What happened when the Thunder decided to trade Paul George? What happened next? Well, one, it was not in the middle of the season. Okay. That's fine. But what happened next? When he decided to trade Paul George? Yeah.

Four Paul George or trade him away. They traded Russell Westbrook. Yeah. When the Jazz traded Rudy Gobert. Oh, we're going back to the Desmond Bain trade. Is this what we're doing? Desmond Bain has been traded. Now John Moran's available.

And then so are you moving it forward? Well, I would say, I would say if you go back to that, if you want to look at these situations in analog, because I think they are in analog, why was Dejante Murray traded and not Trey Young? Because they could trade. Because they could trade. Because they could trade.

Because DeJante Murray had a lot more value to at least one team than Trey Young had anywhere. And that's exactly what happened with Desmond Bain. I think if the Grizzlies could have gotten that package for John Morant, they would still have Desmond Bain. And I'm not sure they'd be looking to trade Desmond Bain. However, they traded Desmond Bain this summer. And what else did they do this summer of significance? They also extended Jaron Jackson Jr.

To as much as they could give him, the second they could give him, despite the fact they knew he had to get toe surgery. So their actions are telling you that they are, determined to rebuild the grisies, I would say, around Jaron Jackson Jr. There is a lot of discussion around the league wondering if that is mutual, I would say. Yeah, I mean, look, I would say all bets are off in general. The way things have gone there, I'm not so certain I would be rushing to take on Jaron Jackson Jr. and his money at this point. I'm not sure how well that contract will age over time for all the time we've talked

about guys in that stratosphere of money. And yeah, like, I just go back to the tray thing over and over again. Like this is exactly like the Trey Young situation. And I suspect if a trade happens, it's either going to look something like that or it's going to be longer-term money, but like that. Yeah. Yeah. Because I just don't see where the, I don't see where any kind of strong offer is coming in for him.

Because frankly, I think if there had been a strong offer somewhere, he wouldn't be on the team today. Yeah, it's not like this reporting is the first time people around Ali thought that Jal was available. Like whether now this is the first time that there's been. kind of the admission that he's being shopped. But there's been the perception that Jock could be had in the trade market for over a year now. What's also, again, it's the same as Trey. It's exactly the same. And how did that end?

That ended with no draft picks and a couple rotation players. If there are multiple picks involved in this, it's because the Grizzas are taking back some really ugly long-term salaries. Right. Well, the other thing is the Grizzies. The Zosley's have a very complex pick situation this year. Yeah. It involves swaps with the Sons and Wizards,

which involves the Bain trade. But basically... And magic. Yeah, hilarious. I think they'd end up with the magic's pick as of now. Right. Well, and the funny thing there is when they made... Well, funny if you're not a Memphis fan

or in their front office. When they made that trade for Bain, their belief was the best asset that they got was the sons pick this year as part of that. The right to swap to pick this year. Right. They thought, hey, that's going to be a lottery pick, maybe even a high lottery pick.

And one of the primary reasons that, no, it looks like it won't even be a lottery pick, much less the pick that you end up getting, is because Dylan Brooks, a guy who was very unceremoniously dumped by the Grizzlies when his contract expired and kind of started this chain of events that's led us to this point, has had a great impact in Phoenix. And the Suns now are one of the teams that may be the team that has most exceeding expectations this year. I seriously, I like need Bobby Marks and a whiteboard and some hallucinogenic drugs to figure out their swapping. situation, but they could end up with two lottery picks this year. I can help you with hallucingenics.

I mean, it's not that hard. They're going to have their pick, and they're probably going to have Orlando or Phoenix's pick, and they thought Phoenix's pick was going to be a very good pick, and it's probably not going to be. And the fact that it could be Orlando's, I think, is emblematic of the fact that it's not going to be the high value swing that they hoped it would be. Right. As we speak right now, the Grizzlies are 10th in the lottery standings. That's their own, right? They had that one. And then the other pick that they get is the Magic at 17. And that's because the Sons are

sent at 21. The Sons have a better record than the Magic or the Grizzlies. Correct. By a, it's not too much better than the, the Magic. Yeah, the magic of 22 and 18, sons are 23 and 15. The Grizzies are 17 and 22. What seems exceedingly unlikely is their best shot at getting the kind of player they were hoping to get in this draft is coming from their own pick and not somebody else's. Now, I will say this, there are some very intriguing young players that are already on the Grizzies roster. Primarily, their number one on the list would be Zach Edy. Unfortunately, he's dealing with the stress fracture in that ankle that is at this point a role.

recurring problem that is tremendously concerning for a massive seven foot four three hundred plus pound guy. And if I'm not mistaken, they just, I think Oslo said that he's been away from the team getting consultations from doctors across the country. I didn't like hearing that.

I don't know what's going on, but that did not make me smile. It is a very concerning situation. But, hey, they traded up to get Cedric Howard. He's looked good. In this trap, he's a really, really nice young player. Jaylen Wells is good. Cam Spencer is a good story.

Like, they've done a great job for the last several years for him under Zach Climman's tenure of getting, finding guys in the second round as undrafted players on two-way con. Like, Scotty Pippin is basically not played this year. He's a really nice find for them off a two-way. Like, they've done a really good job churning out depth developmental pieces over and over and over again. Here's the thing.

It's like saying, Kelden Johnson's a nice piece. Devin Vassell's a nice piece. It ain't going to matter until you get a stud. They thought they had a stud, and now they don't. But the point, McBan's point is that if they become the latest team to go from 9 to 1 or 9 to 2 or 9 to 3 and they wind up with Cameron Goose or AJ DeBanzler, Darren Peterson on this team with Cedric Howard,

with a healthy Zach Edie, with Jaylon Wells. I agree. And that's what I'm telling you. That's what they're going to do. So two things can be true. We were aware of that. One, John Moran is far and away, the most talented player ever to wear a Grizzies uniform. And he, for a, I mean, he was a shooting star, not jump shooting, but, you know, like there was a time where.

Yes, my God. What an enjoyable player to watch? Yeah, his ceiling was sky high. He was the best player on, you know, teams that were finishing second in the West. They didn't have the playoff success. Everybody thought they didn't ultimately, you know, reach what everybody considered his potential. But most talented player in franchise history. And at this point, they are a significantly better team with Cam Spencer undrafted.

I guess he was a second round pick. Anyways, two-way guy, you know, homegrown developmental dude. They're a better team with Cam Spencer playing point guard than John Moran. The numbers, net rating with Spencer. on the floor no job plus 3.8. Jahn the floor, no Spencer, minus 7.9. I mean, it hadn't been close. To go back to the old window meme, why would they want this out there that to trade them?

Because they've decided they're exiting the ship finally. They've gone through all the ups and downs and tried to make it work, all these different ways, done all this stuff, and they've decided to use a line we've used on here before. The juice ain't worth to squeeze anymore. So they're just like it wasn't with Trey Young, just like it hasn't been in other situations like this in the past. And so the question becomes, to Brian's point, if there are teams that are interested, how low of a price can they take and stomach to have an exit stage right between now and February 5th? Because it's not going to be, I'm sure, of this, whatever this trade is if it happens, it's not going to be a trade that. Joe average fan is going to look at, oh, man, Memphis, they got a haul for John Moran.

It ain't going to be that. It's going to be like, what do you mean the Grizzlies traded John Morant for X? Why would they do that? But that's not the way it should obviously be looked at. The only thing I'm going to disagree with you on here is that the Grizzlies wanted this out there because I think this is more of a case of enough people were hearing about it that it was getting out there. you know that i mean is when a when a player knows hey i'm gone soon and you know blah blah blah blah blah blah it starts spreading it's getting out there so i i i don't think this

was something that the grisers are like well this is like i'm not i'm not saying that but it's i'm not saying that but it it's i think they were away i i would just say that they would be aware this was going to be out there on friday well look here's the thing this is what like the mavericks were afraid of when they wanted to trade Luca. They wanted to keep it all, you know, hush-h-h. Do not, do not-do-not, do not deign any, we're just going to not deign a single second of Luca Dachich trade process with this.

Time out. There's one minor difference. If it would have leaked that Luke was on the block, the phone would have been ringing off the hook. Well, that's the point. It's, it's, you, that, you would have gotten better offers, which is, you know, it's unpleasant when this happens. but sometimes it becoming public is a,

not that I'm saying they broadcast it. Well, that's why this is like the Trey Young thing. But when you talk to multiple teams, that's how it gets public. Yes. This is like that this is for the 100th time. This is why it's like Trey Young. It's a situation that both sides need to move on from and they need to find the best path to doing that.

And it's probably one that's going to be pretty humbling for, I mean, you would like to think it'd be humbling for Jha to see what a return will be. And it's going to be. be humbling for Memphis to have this era of I'm Fine in the West and with one second round appearance. The truth is is that both Jha and Trey can have second acts. Yeah. It's just that their value right now is your team that's going to be betting that you can get that out of them, not, you know, when Luca got to the Lakers, you didn't wonder whether he was going to put up numbers. Well, again, I don't, we shouldn't be, Luca Dotsch, shouldn't be within 10,000 miles of this. Well,

conversation. It has to do with the star player being traded and the situations are are different. Okay. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Bon Temps, the game that you, were you in Boston? You were in Boston last night? I was in Boston for the Raptors Celtics game on Friday and the Spurs Celtics game on Saturday. Ooh, Bonvoy Bon Temps, baby. How much is Jaylon Brown going to be fined on? Monday by the NBA

for asking to be fined after complaining about officiating. Janlon Brown will get a very hefty find. I could read through his quotes 35,000, but I don't... 25, I'll take 25. I'm going north. I'm going with Brian's guess, and I think I'll be right.

He went above the normal, the normal fine route. He also name check the ref, which is usually good for an extra... That's why going, that's why it's going to be more than 25. If you, if you, if you, basically are accusing the refs by name of a conspiracy against you.

It's not going to be the standard. The refs stink and you get fined. Especially the conspiracy is Wim, Wendy, or I'm sorry, Wimby was swatting his stuff all over the police.

Yeah, here's what I'm going to say about this Jalen Brown thing. So let me, not everybody may, so while you're saying, let me get the exact quotes up. So I,

well, I don't even want to read the quotes. People can go find the quote. Well, he doesn't, we'll just, hold on. Can I explain why first?

We're going to do it for the people, but go ahead. Wendy's going to read quotes. I don't want to give Jalen Brown the time of day to read the quotes. And here's why. I'm going to read to you. I want our listeners to be understanding. But here's why.

I'm going to read to you the stats Jalen Brown had in the fourth quarter of this game, which is why he did this range. One for nine from the field and two turnovers and played all 12 minutes. He was horrendous in the fourth quarter of this game. It was not because of the refs. It's why the Celtics, after leading basically the whole game, lost the game. And I don't think it was a coincidence that while Jalen's had a phenomenal season and arguably should be an all-star starter, certainly should be an all-star.

It's going to be a pretty big an all-N-B-A player. He had a horrific fourth quarter and then went in the locker room and said, the refs screwed us the whole game because we didn't get foul shots. These are, these is taken from Tim Bontem's story. I'm tired of the inconsistency. I'll accept the fine at this point. I thought it was some bull bleep tonight. I think the spurs are a good defensive team, but they ain't that damn good.

I'm just extremely frustrating. Like, we play hard. We were outplaying our expectations. We compete hard on the defensive event. Then they reward the other team with touch fouls. Every time we play a good team, the inconsistency is crazy. I'll take the effing fine. Curtis, as in Curtis Blair, the crew chief, all them dudes were terrible tonight.

I don't care. They can fine me whatever they want. then he went on... The famous bias against the Celtics, I love it. Right. Then he went on X and reiterated, just in case you missed all that. I didn't even read all of it. I summarized it. No, no, yeah, that summarized it. He repeated that and cursed a whole bunch of times. I mean, it was...

Oh, no, we cost... Jalen Brown... Jalen Brown tried to go mono-a-mono with Victor Mianma multiple times in the fourth quarter. Didn't work. He got a wide open three at the top of the key when they were down two of the minute and 20 seconds ago, could have put them up one, missed it. came down, the spurs missed a shot, he came back down the other way with the ball, got his pocket picked by Deere and Fox, gave up a layup,

and that was the difference in the game. So, like, I don't want to hear about, we got screwed by the rest the whole game. I don't think they got screwed by the rest in the game. He had a really bad fourth quarter. If he's going to be the guy leading the team this year, especially with Jason Tate him out, like, to say you had a bad fourth quarter,

which he did say he had a bad fourth quarter, he's got to play better, but then also spent a long time saying there's a conspiracy against me and I'm tired of it. Like, just don't have an awful fourth quarter in the Celtics have a really nice win and continue what's been a great season for him and for them. He is averaging the most free throws of his career. The game before he had 13 free throws and this game had zero.

And so I think, you know, he could point to that with the consistency. A couple of the games where he's had low free throw amounts have been against good teams, but then again, maybe that's because they don't, they're good teams that don't foul. The Celtics are last in the NBA and free throw rate, but that's partially because they're one of the top teams in three-point rate. They shoot a lot of-

They've historically been a team that doesn't get to the line very much, and it was Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown getting to the foul line, and obviously now Jason Tatum is not there, so it's really just Jaylen Brown getting to the foul line, not too dissimilar from the discussion we've really had about the thunder, and how they've got one or two guys that really get to the line consistently. And Joe Mazzula got asked about this after the game.

And his response was, yeah, there were four or five fouls we had that we sent him to the line easy and we can't do that. Which, like, I would agree. That would probably be the way to go. Can't do that. And the other thing is, Jalen Brown, great player, who is a man that's prone to search for conspiracy theories. That is true.

Jaylen's had a great, great, great season, and he's been better than I expected he would be, and the Celtics have been awesome, and full credit to him and to them. And like I said, he did take blame for how he played in the fourth quarter. I personally would have liked it to just stop at, yeah, I had a really crappy 12 minutes,

and I'll be better next time. Then you wouldn't have had a story to write. Yeah, I would have been fine not having the story to write, but I... Here's the thing. Jan Brown recently boasted, the best two-way player in the league, and I don't mind it at all.

I think there's a case for it. I just think the guy that was swatting his stuff left right in the fourth quarter has a better case. I will say this. So I guess there's another side of this. So I saw a stat that Jalen has the averages the third most drives per game. You guys want to guess who's first and second? Dini Abia and Shade Gildes Alexander. There you got it right.

Which Shea is routinely, you know, they slap the first. free throw merchant on him. Like, I'm not sure why that's such an insult, but whatever. That's, the only thing people can do to say negative about Shea is that he gets a lot of free throws. It's like, oh, no. How insulting, you know. I take him on my team. He's pretty good. Yeah, I would take him too.

And then Denny Avi, like, didn't Tarva Easton the other day? Like, uh, something, he had some comment about the zebras. Yeah, he called him a, by the way, hopefully Denny is all right. He had a, he did get hurt today. A very awkward looking fall. Well, late in the Knicks game tonight, had another huge game. He landed and immediately grabbed his back and walked off the court, went to the locker room. Tiago Splitter said he's worried about it.

Danny said he is not, but that bears watching. Obviously, he's got a chance to make his first All-Star team, and he's been fantastic. He should make his first All-Star team. Yeah, and by the way, he ranks second in the league, Deni Obdia in free-throw's attempt, did it, at 9.9. He plays a, like, he doesn't just drive. He bulldozes. He's a tight-end. My point is that people are complaining and throwing, you know, insults for the foul hunting for Denny and for SGA.

No one's, you know, you know, Jalen is dodging that smoke. Wait, where does Jalen rank in drives? Third is what I saw. Okay, he does, and he does rank, and these aren't all guys who would qualify, but just in Frito's per game, he's 15th in the league. 7.2, you know who leads the league by a wide margin? Probably Jalen Brunson who's, oh, Yonnes. Nope. Yonis is third at 9.5, Shea's fourth at 9.2.

Yeah, your old pal. Yeah. A guy who also has done a fair amount of complaining to and about refereeing during his day. Luca Donches is having 12 free throws per game. Yeah. Yeah. Well, by the way, speaking of the Rockets, they're in trouble against the Kings in Sacramento right now. They're lucky, we've given the Rockets a lot of praise this year.

They're lucky that this podcast was happening before the end of that game, because if they end up losing this game, they just got beat twice in Portland. They just got beat in Dallas the other night. They are not a good road team right now. Not a good road team. Shingoon is back tonight. He got hurt in the first minute against Dallas.

So, you know, they fell apart without KD, and they're both losses in Portland and the loss in Dallas. I would say Shingun's out. absence certainly was a factor now. Well, that's true, but those teams are missing players too. I would agree. And if they lose to sack, that's a pretty rough stretch. I don't know what's going to happen for all I know in the next 10 seconds.

Amman Thompson will hit four threes and Shengoon, who's not having a good game tonight, will make nine straight points. They've had some consistent offensive struggles late. I mean, not too dissimilar from the Thunder. We've really been scuffling. I mean, they scuffled for a while today against Miami, went on to win. in, by the way, one team that had been scuffling, yeah, I went up winning by, I think 12.

One team that had been scuffling quite a bit, we talked about him tangentially earlier. The Atlanta Hawks are about to pretty comfortably beat the Warriors in Golden State where the Warriors had been awfully hot for a while, and they've now ripped off three wins in a row since that trade, and I will just say, in games, Tray Young did not, in games that Tray Young did not finish, season. They are 19 and 13. So, yeah, you know, have no fear. The Wizards lost tonight.

By 30. It was a 30 point game last I saw a train. It ended up losing by 19, but a lot of garbage time. If the Rockets lose this game in Sacramento, and like I said, they're down four right now. Maybe they win by 12. I'm not. Sacramento could easily give that one back. Correct. The Suns will be inside the top six and the Rockets will be in the playing zone. So, but I'm just saying, there could be a more thorough examination of the rockets. Yeah, I mean, they've been scuffling. I mean, if they lose that one, it'll be three losses in a row. And like you said, they'll be down in the plane. Listen, no one knows the hoop collective drinks like we do.

And also, well, listen, the other thing, I mean, we've talked about it a little bit. It is unbelievable what the nuggets have done over the past couple of weeks. Like we, when Yokic got hurt, all these guys were out, it was like, man, are the Nuggets going to be falling out of the plane? Are they going to be in the plan? Are they going to be six? You had them in the lottery. I didn't have him in the lottery. But I certainly thought they were going to plummet without Yokic. And instead, they go to Boston and win. Yeah. They go to Boston and win. They go to Toronto and win. They go, they beat Milwaukee tonight with Yonis playing. And I think. Here we're. Tonight's starters. Yeah, lay it out. Lay it out.

Hunter Tyson, Spencer Jones, Jalen Pickett, Peyton Watson, and Aaron Gordon. And they all had negative plus minuses except for Peyton Watson. Tim Hardaway Jr., a minimum signing, had 25 points on 8 to 12 shooting, was plus 27 in 35 minutes off the bench. Zeke Naji, a guy who his career had much maligned. And, hey, you know, he's on, like, he's been a contributor during a stretch. He was a plus 22 and 28 minutes off the bench, had 14 and 10. And three assists, two steals and two blocks in the game. Yeah, I mean, those are the two guys who really won this game for him, those two.

Yeah. And by the way, Janus, Janus had 31, 8, and 11, and was plus 16 and 33 minutes, and they lost by four. So they were minus 20 in the 50 minutes he didn't play. I mean, you know. Don't disrespect by asking for a status update. He is just committed to Milwaukee. It's not in his nature. We would never even think about leaving.

What I was going to say, though, is with everything that's gone on the past couple weeks without Yokic, who I think could be back sometime fairly soon, these guys right now are a game and a half out of second and they're still in third, which is an unbelievable accomplishment for Denver. Like, these wins are gigantic for them. They stay right behind the spurs. like that's going to put them in really strong. I mean, I would bet that once Yokic is back,

Denver finishes second in the West if they're a couple games back of the Spurs are closer. And for all the scuffling the Thunder have done recently, those two teams would love to be first and second and not seeing each other until the conference finals. So, I mean, it's been a bunch of random games that they've won, but it's just been a remarkable stretch for Denver

to pull these winds out with a skeleton crew in a bunch of them. Yeah, you have to respect it. All right, let me wait. One more check of the rocket score. We'll see if we could just, if we instantaneously cause the karma to flip. Not quite yet. Not yet.

Not yet. The rest just missed a horrendous offensive goaltending on the Kings, but that's okay. All right. I don't want to go all Jaylon Brown. I'm sure he may. We'll call him out my name. How tall is Curtis Blair?

Curtis Blair is a pretty big fella. Well, he's big enough where I wouldn't. mess with him. I don't care how tall he is. His biceps are pretty, uh, whatever he might lack in height he makes up for in his biceps. Oh, by the way, shout out either. Shout out to Bill Kennedy. He went down with a hamstring. Yeah, feel better soon, Bill. We'll hope you're doing well. I hope you're doing all right. Take it easy. You earned a little bit best. All right. Thank you to Jackson, Devon, and Mark, our producers, Devon has been stuggling through this because he's a Chargers fan that's been going on and we made him do this podcast. Trust me. It was a pleasant distraction for him, I

I'll show you that. All right. Thank you to Bon Temson, McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective. We'll be talking to you in a couple of days. Adios amigos.