Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Are Big Changes Brewing In Portland? Gary Trent Jr. Investigation + Latest LeBron Updates

Episode Date: July 17, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon to react to interesting reporting from Portland and commentary from Adam Silver’s press conference as it relates to the future of the Blazers before talking the league’s investigation into the Gary Trent Jr. contract with the Bucks. Then ESPN’s Dave McMenamin joins from Fanatics Fest to break down what we learned from LeBron James’ various appearances today, discuss when we will get his decision and some interesting stories from his Heat days. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining me from Dallas, he's back from Los Angeles, is Ben McMahon. Howdy, partners? McMahon, I was scrambled back from Las Vegas early because I had to be in place in the studio for LeBron's big podcast on Thursday, where he was going to make many announcements. How'd that go? Yeah. We'll get in that later, but we're not leaving with it, so I think that tells you.

That's right. All right. So I went to Adam Silver's press conference on Tuesday night in Las Vegas. You know, I did McMahon. The room that they had the presser in Vegas. It was like a room that they used for multiple things, not just press conferences. So they had like in the back of the room, they had like these big giant leather oversized chairs. And I was like, I don't mind if I do.

I mean, how many board of governor's press conferences have I been to in my career, 37, 111, whatever? Like, why don't I sit back here? You stayed in it for the whole presser? Yeah. What's the difference? Did you take a nap? No, it was totally comfortable, just sat back and paid. I was paying attention.

Like Vinnie Goodwill and Ben Goliver, our ESPN colleagues, they were up there, like, in the folding chairs, you know, on the edge of their seat, you know. But I was just back in the back. What's the difference? Did you order a Diet Coke? No, I would love that. I think they cleared the catering out. But I definitely looked around to see if it was available. Anyway, he said a lot of stuff in that press conference.

I actually don't think any of it was super duper newsworthy except for one thing. Okay. And that one thing is what I'm going to talk about right now. And outside of one NBA city, I have seen basically nobody talking. about it despite how I think it was the most important thing. And in fact, I don't even think we've covered it almost at all on ESPN. And that is the situation that is developing in Portland. And I know we've got LeBron. I know we've got contract extensions and all these things. I mean, I know there's a lot of newsworthy things that people, you know, care about. But I think there's a

whole lot of stuff on hold. The Brown's decision, the Kauai trade and the aspiration ruling, the Gary Trent investigation. We got a lot of extensions like, you know, what's going to happen with Carl Towns extension? Is he going to extend or not? Is Michael Porter Jr.? That's something that Sean Marks from the Nets General Manager was talking about. If Michael Porter Jr., for example, doesn't come to a contract extension, would they trade him? You know, stuff.

Like, there's stuff going on, but this, to me, is the most interesting. So let me just start right here, McMahon. Let me take you down the Primrose path, okay? You remember. Is that a rose joke? What's that? That was a rose reference? No, but, you know, when you're good at the game, you can throw roses in there.

I don't even know what the Primrose path is. But you remember back when the Seattle Supersonics left Seattle? I do. Howard Schultz, who was the owner of the team, the CEO of Starbucks. He sold the team. He's from Seattle, you know, had his family there, big investments there, Starbucks headquarters there. He got tired of owner the team, and he sold it to businessmen from Oklahoma City. And those guys led by Clay Bennett moved the team to Oklahoma City. Big surprise, okay?

And Howard Schultz's name was dragged through the mud there. He tried to sue and pretend like he did another movie to Oklahoma City. Sure. Okay. So, but his name was mud there. In fact, a couple of years later, he tried to run for president. And his, his bid went nowhere, in part because he couldn't even win his block in Seattle because they all hated him there. Okay? And so subsequently, McMahon, when teams in markets, you know, when the Dallas Mavericks sold, nobody thought they were moving. The Las Vegas stuff is laughable. When the Phoenix Sun sold, nobody thought they were moving. Okay. When the Lakers sold, nobody thought they were moving. But subsequently, when teams that are in markets that are not 100% solidified sold, the owners who were outgoing went to pains to make sure that they did not become Howard Schultz. They put Howard Schultz clauses, basically, into their sales contracts.

Let me give you some examples. Cole, Herb Cole, who owned the Bucks. He's passed away since one of Wisconsin's favorite sons founded the Coal's department store chain, was the senator from Wisconsin for many years. He was just known basically as the senator. When he sold the team, they badly needed an arena. And he didn't want to sell it to somebody, even he was selling it to some New York guys, some New York hedge fund guys.

And he didn't, so he put it in the contract that they couldn't sell it. In fact, there was even a clause in there that if... That they couldn't move it, you mean? They couldn't move it. Right. In fact, they would, if they did anything, they would have to sell it back to the NBA. They couldn't, they couldn't move it. He, no, he can't do anything 20 years after he's dead.

But gosh, darn it. Herb Cole was not going to be criticized or, you know, his name ruined, dragged through the mud, because he sold to people who moved it. Okay. Minnesota, Glenn Taylor, when he sold it. He took a bath. Not a bath. He sold it for a billion five, but he could have sold it for so much more money to somebody who wanted to move it. He was, it took him years to sell the team in part because he was determined to sell it to somebody who would not move it. Because he didn't want his name. He was, again, he's one of Minnesota's favorite sons. He did not want his name dragged through the mud and ruined after he spent a lifetime building it up as doing that. Okay. The New Orleans Pelican. Gail Benson, when she inherited the team from Tom Benson, her late husband, she has been adamant. This team is never leaving New Orleans, okay? And she has announced a plan to donate the teams after she dies to the city of New Orleans. So that it, you know, I don't know what happened for that, but if New Orleans city wants to sell it to somebody and they can move it, they'll blame it on the city.

They ain't going to blame it on her, all right? Then New Orleans might be like, yeah, we'll take the saints, but the pelicans, we don't need them. Well, then they can drag whoever the mayor is then. Okay, so this is where I'm taking you. Now let me bring you to the Portland Trailblazers. Paul Allen died 2017. Okay. His family foundation owned the team.

It had to sell the team. A couple of years ago, Phil Knight, one of Oregon's most famous sons. Again, another man in his 80s, like Herb Cole, like, I'm having a brain fart. Glenn Taylor. Wanted to make sure Legacy was okay, offered to buy the Blazers

from the Paul Allen estate to make sure that they would stay in Portland. The offer was rejected. Now, there are some shenanigans that went into that. Apparently, the way he approached wasn't good, and then there was some stuff that got leaked to the media. The point is, the Allen Foundation could have sold to Phil Knight,

did not. okay? When they sold it, they sold it to Tom Dundon, who we've now all heard, a Dallas businessman, and there was nothing in there that would keep the team from moving. And he's wielding that nothing as a weapon. In fact, you could argue the opposite happened. A year or so, don't hold me to all these dates. There are some reporters in Portland who have reported on this extensively. Bill Orham, the columnist of the Oregonian, Sean Hiken, who has a substack, the Rose Garden report, I believe it's called, John Kanzano, who has his own media network. I'm not trying to steal anything from them.

They've reported on this exclusively. Brian Berger, who's a podcaster from Portland. They, but around a year before the Blazers sold, they did a new lease in Portland. How long are our leases, which. with arenas, usually, McMan? I believe like OKCs, for example, is they're building their new arenas, 25 years. Yeah.

So, you know, always least double-digit years, often a generation, five years. Five-year lease, okay? And that's a rookie extension. And not only that, the Blazers, the Allen Foundation owned the arena. Outright. Paul Allen owned that arena, the Modus Center.

Actually, it's a modus center. Motus Center now, yeah. was called the Rose Garden Motor Center. The Blazers owned the arena. They sold it to the city for $1. Okay? Why would they do that? McMahon, why would they sell it to them for $1?

Because now it's the city's problem. That's right. Okay. So what I'm saying to you is this is the, and I know that, you know, and this is a July conversation, I wouldn't talk about this at the trade deadline, but I think it's the most interesting thing happening in the league right now. Well, because you have a team that's been there

for a couple of generations for 50-some-odd years that is very possibly going to rip up their roots and rip city and move somewhere else. And, you know, this is different than when Clay Bennett bought the, and his group bought the Sonics because there it was like very transparent. Oklahoma City people are going to want to move that team to Oklahoma City. That's what happened. Tom Dunden's not moving the trailblazers to Dallas, obviously. He's just, going to he's going to go wherever he can profit most. If that's in Portland, he'll stay. If it's somewhere else, he'll leave.

But it's not like there is, he's not trying to take that team, that franchise and move to his hometown. He's just trying to go where he can make the most money. So Tom Dunton bought the team, came out and I'm, and I'm summarizing here. Please don't take these as, uh, um. Direct quotes. direct quotes, but Tom Dunton came out and basically said, I bought this team because it was for sale.

He didn't say, I've always wanted to be in Portland. And he said basically that he's not intending to donate or give any money to the renovation that Modus Center needs, apparently for the Blazers to extend their lease. He basically said him buying the team was his donation. Correct. I mean, and hey, if y'all want us to stay, you better spend some money like $600 million to renovate the arena.

Right. And I'm not going to get into the blow-by-blow here because I can't summarize it. But the city, state, and county are all trying to come together. And to get one entity to agree to give money to a billionaire is a challenge. To get three entities to all agree. Long story short, it has not, you know, has not happened. Well, and according to the reporting coming out of Portland, the Blazers aren't really cooperating. They aren't being specific with their request.

They're not being, you know, they're not like participating in the process. It's enough to, there's been, like Bill Orem basically wrote, hey, are they attempting to sabotage this? Right. So here's the sequence of events. Adam Silver goes to Portland in March. There's a press conference. He says, we're going to get a deal here.

We want to be in Portland long term. Okay. Nothing's happened since March. Adam Silver comes out, and this is the most relevant statements that he makes this week. Or he basically said that the negotiations have gone off track. And he said, what we're most focused on right now at the league office is the deal we discussed when we were in Portland. in March, I was hoping more progress would have been made by now on that agreement. It seems they have gone off track in various ways.

We're working with both sides to ensure the Trailblazers can have a long-term future in Portland, but there are several open issues that still need to be resolved. This is Adam Sandler. Adam Sandler, my God. Adam Silver rattling the saber. Even though Tom Dundon, it's not like Adam Silver is making threats, but this is basically saying that there's open issues here. And I will just say that there was no votes on expansion taken to move the expansion process along at the owners meetings in Vegas this summer.

There was a possibility that expansion would move forward, that they would formally announce that they were expanding. That did not happen. I'm not saying that those two are related. I'm just saying it did not happen. But if you wanted one of your owners to have leverage to move a team, you wouldn't necessarily have expansion all lined up and announced because it takes away some of the leverage. So McMahon, I think beyond the basketball court, the future of the Blazers in Portland is the most relevant thing. And it matters more than just Portland

because it matters to potentially Seattle and Las Vegas who maybe the NBA slows down its expansion plans because they want to make sure that all their 30 teams are currently going to stay in place before they expand to another market. Yeah. And listen, Portland's a, it's a small market. And it's a small market that has one major pro sports team.

They don't have a football team there. They don't have a baseball team there. They don't have a hockey team there. This is it for them. And it's a small market that, like a lot of small markets, has natural challenges in terms of, revenue generation. And so, like, I get why a guy who has no roots there, who has no emotional attachment there, who frankly doesn't care about the fans whatsoever, not, he doesn't,

he does not care one iota about Blazers fans. It's just a simple matter of fact. I get why he's looking at that and, and taking the approach of pay up or peace out. But that, that's the approach he's not trying in any, he's not trying to, like, be slick. He's not trying to be smooth. He's not trying to polity. I mean, he's just being... Is he acting like a Texan? Is that how a Texan normally operates? I would say there's some politicians here in Texas for better or worse. But there's nothing like he, this is not like he's not going there and like schmooze. He's doing the exact opposite. That's right. He's basically just being an arrogant, rude

like you know just not he's not he's there's nothing Portland about him well that's well said I agree with that I mean the entry so basically Tom Dundan like he's like he's going to do what he wants you know like this week so he obviously owns the Carolina Hurricanes

they just won the Stanley Cup and the Stanley Cup was it just Jackson was it just this week that it came out that the engraver the engrave on there was that just this week yeah So they showed pictures of the Stanley Cup. And I guess, and I'm ignorant to a lot of this stuff, McMahon, so I want to apologize.

I'm not trying to overlook anything. I'm not trying to be rude or get aggregated or insult anybody. I just saying how I think it goes. But I think you can have 55 names on the Stanley Cup. Every year you engrave on the Stanley Cup. And then for some period of years, your names are on. So they put the players on it and there's room for more names. And, you know, you have coaches.

You have executives, you have owners. And he used eight of the, seven, I think, of the spots for his family, Tom Dundon, including his wife and five children. Now, it's not the first time that someone has put other names of family members on the Stanley Cup, but usually it isn't like, you know, children. You know, if it is children, it's children who work for the team. And so they had to omit some people who work for the team to make the room for the children. He just doesn't care. It's like it's my team.

I get to choose the 55 names. I'm putting my kids' names on there. He doesn't care about people. And we've talked about this before. Well, I wouldn't say he doesn't care about people. He's just certain people he cares about more than others. Yeah, his family. And like he cares about, he'll spend on players because that's the product.

But the whole way that he approached the coaching search, we've talked about, the whole way of, like, not traveling two-way guys during the playoffs. They've had massive layoffs. I mean, they gutted that franchise, like in terms of, you know, behind the scenes people. Look, if Adam Silver really cared about the Portland Trailblazer staying in Portland, he would have not allowed Tom Dunden to be approved as the owner. So if the Trailblazer leave Portland, that is on Adam Silver. A couple of things.

So one, it's been reported that the. The family that owns a couple of the teams there, I believe the women's soccer team and the WMBA team made a bid to buy the Blazers, which would have assured them staying there. But they didn't have the highest bid. Dundon had a higher bid. And so, you know, they went with the highest bid. The second thing that's interesting, so at the Allen Foundation that owned the Blazers and sold them to Dundon, they just last week agreed to sell the CLED. Seahawks for $9.6 billion, huge amount of money. Obviously, all-time record for American sports. And according to reports, and it's not a done deal, and I'm not saying this for sure,

I'm just recording to reports. They're selling 100% of the Seahawks. They're selling all over their shares to the Seahawks. In the case of Dundon, they only sold 80%, and they kept 80%. And some media in Portland is speculating that one of the reasons they kept the 80%, And I don't, I am not saying this. Wait, they sold 80 and kept 20. I'm sorry, they kept 20.

Okay. I'm not saying this. I'm just saying what's being reported, okay, that speculated by media, that one of the reasons you would keep the 20% is if the team moves, the team's value would increase. And your 20% that equity would increase to. I, you know, I'm a little surprised that Paul Allen didn't have language in his will. that would prevent something like this from happening, as invested as he was in the Blazers? They also took eight years to sell the teams.

I don't understand. I'm not an estate attorney, so I can't really say. But I think other than the underlying reasons of this, just the palace intrigue of it all, the reason I think it's interesting, and I've spent 20 minutes you're talking about it, and we'll move on,

is that I think it's going to potentially affect expansion. Because if you look at the markets that you could expand to or that you could move to. There's not a lot of options here, McMahon, because outside of Las Vegas and Seattle, where are places that could legitimately take an NBA team that would be an upgrade on Portland? In other words, you would move the team.

I mean, you're starting fresh as far as a fan base, wherever you go as well. Like, you would probably be part of an Omaha ownership group, wouldn't you? Well, Omaha is not an upgrade from Portland with all due respect. Yeah, I mean, we can talk about like Kansas City, Louisville, like, I don't know. So Kansas City. Nashville. I don't have the stats in front of me.

Okay, well, okay. Like, for example, Austin could host an NBA team. But Austin is down. Not let that happen. Correct. Because NBA teams have a perimeter that they can, that they control and defend. For example, when the kings were uncertain as to what was going to happen, with them. You know, they obviously almost moved to Seattle. They had another plan where they were

going to move to Orange County. They were going to play in Anaheim. It was announced, I'm not sure if they ever like had, you know, Anaheim King's gear or whatever, but it was announced. And the Clippers, Sterling and Jerry Buss blocked it. They said, no, you can't move into Orange County. We control that territory. And I believe now, and now the owners could vote on anything. You know, they could, they could change their mind tomorrow. But I believe the Grizzlies, that's the Nashville's within their perimeter. So you could say, you know, if you're listening. And the Brons tried to move the Grizzlies to Nashville.

Who did? LeBron. That's right. I remember that. So, you know, seriously, if you, please correct me if I'm wrong. Las Vegas, Seattle, Nashville, and Austin would probably be the most attractive cities. Jackson, do you think I'm awesome? Yeah.

We can talk Kansas City, Louisville. I don't think Kansas City and Louisville are upgrades on Portland. I agree. Listen, it's, it would be tremendously unfortunate if the Trailblazers weren't in Portland. It's a very passionate and unique fan base. I get the revenue challenges, but it would be a shame. All right. So we'll just monitor that and keep an eye on that. I will say it was interesting. You know, when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl in February, it was very much taken note, both in Seattle and. and in Portland, that when Jody Allen, his sister who would become the head of the estate, she became the governor of both teams, she didn't thank or she didn't reference her late brother when she took the trophy. And I would never have thought about it, but people felt a certain

way about it. In other words, she doesn't have that connection. And so the concept here is that, you know, Paul Allen loved the Blazers, you know, loved having them in Portland. He probably would have preferred to own the Sonics because he's from Seattle, based in Seattle. But after he bought the Blazers, like invested in them immensely, made sure that they always had everything.

They were one of the best taking care of teams and that the concept is that, you know, that he would never have stood for the team being sold to somebody who would move them or whatever. Well, and just the way that they're being run now, the way that they're being operated. It's polar opposite to the way that he rampage. It sure is. It does it. Like, look, I was just in Vegas at Summer League. And the outlet, I mean, the NBA is operates in a world of excess. We at ESPN certainly do not go hungry. I'm not casting a stone from a glass house. Some of the expenditures that are going on at Summer League for these teams are a little, are a little wild, McMahon. These teams are spending a million dollars each on some of these Summer League operations. And apparently the most interesting thing happening is, um,

ex-teammates, you know, throwing punches at each other. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Dude, I'll tell you what, though. I was thinking about this. Now I know why Bontemps avoided the Salt Lake City Semmel League, where the Hawks were, right? He knew I was going to be there, and he was right, because it's on site next time I see Bontems. Why?

I'm just, you know, bad blood, ex-teamates. I mean, it's a good way to get some attention. so I might as well go punch him in the face. Let me think about that. So I would pick you in that fight, but I have seen evidence of Bon Temps fighting from one free. There is a YouTube video that I believe is still floating around the interwebs. Oh my God, don't say it.

Of a college freshman Bon Timps with, I think it was on lacrosse helmet and boxing gloves. And he does one crazy spin backhand thing that I... He did win the fight. I'm not sure about the technique. We should note that he did win the fight. Yeah, but he was fighting a guy who's not tall enough to referee an NBA. Yeah. Jackson, who would win between Bon Temps and McMahon?

I got McMahon. I think it goes more than one round, though. Bon Temps will... I think Bon Temps would be scrappy enough to keep it going. It'd go longer than the McGregor fight. Hey, one thing we know about Bon Temps, he can take a punch. All right. I'm not here to defend himself, so I'll just leave it at that.

All right. So before we get to... the non-Lebron information. The NBA has, I wouldn't say they have announced it, but they have acknowledged McMahon that they are investigating the Gary Trent contract that we talked about earlier this week. The contract went official. It is four-year-six-four million, all 64 million guaranteed. Every penny. And so, by the way, that is, in addition to the $16 million a year, there weren't that many four-plus-year guaranteed contracts given out this summer. And they were given out to people like Donovan Mitchell, Victor Wimbun-Yama, Austin Reeves.

I mean, the Lakers gave out a couple, Quentin Grimes and Mamu. But yeah, no, it's a short list, Tar Yveson. Yeah, it's a pretty short list. It's not, it's a little bit, it was unusual for a role player. But, you know, you're right. There was a couple. It certainly is unusual for a role player coming off the worst year of his career. So that's what the issue is.

So I heard Rich Paul, he was on his podcast with Kendra Perkins, and he referenced, you know, he's the agent of Gary Trent. He referenced Quentin Grimes. Quentin Grimes got four years and 60 million from the Lakers coming over from the 76ers. And, you know, as a comparable contract to Gary Trent. That's certainly something you could say, you could present as a defense to the league. Gary Trent had, like you said, like one of the worst years of his career. and the difference is that the Lakers didn't pay, you know, quitting Grimes, you know, below market money the previous two years.

Right. Grimes wasn't on a minimum on their roster. Grimes was playing pretty well for the Philadelphia 76ers last year and a half. And I'll just say this, that whatever happened last summer, the Bucks had sort of lost their moral, not moral, but they had lost their North Star, I think, a little bit last summer, McMahon. like... He's now the South Beach Star. Right.

You're exactly right. They wave and stretch. I mean, listen, let's just say it. They were desperately scrambling. And they were mortgaging left and right. Yeah, to try. They were flailing, to try to keep Janus around. So they wave and stretch, Dame, and put $20 million a year, whatever it is, $17 million a year on their books for five years.

I think it's 22 a year. Oh, my God. They sign Miles Turner to an overpay, which is a double air. Yeah. You know, they can't get rid of the number on the books for DAME. And it's next to impossible to move Turner right now if they had to, at least to get off the money. And so, I don't know. The idea here would be that there would have been some circumvention that was a quid pro quo, a wink, wink, what have you.

And let's be honest. That would have happened last summer. Wink, wink, wink deals happen in the NBA. This is what is being investigated here is essentially what Joe Smith was busted for. You've seen the Joe Smith thing talked about a lot in reference to Kauai. This is much more comparable to what happened with Joe Smith. When you sign, if you're out of money and you can't sign anybody, and you could only sign to minimum contracts.

You know, how do you get good talent? That's where the Timberwolves were in 2000. They had Garnett on the roster. They were trying like crazy to get more money. And so they created a, it wasn't just a wink, wink, it was a sign sign. Yeah. They came to an agreement that they would pay Joe Smith, you know, a couple of million dollars for a few years. I can't remember if it was the minimum, but was some small amount.

They would pay him for three years. they would establish his bird rights, and then they would enable them to pay him more money, and then they would pay him a max contract or whatever it was. Basically, it was like, I will pay you tomorrow for your work today. And they signed an agreement. And the reason why they signed the agreement, I don't know, but the reason that it came to light was because the agents who negotiated the deal, the two agents that were partners, got into a feud, sued, sued each other,

and that document was in the freaking lawsuit McMahon, and the smoking gun popped up in the lawsuit. And they hit, and they voided the contract, and they hit them for five first round picks, blah, blah, blah. I would, and wink, wink deals happen.

And, I mean, I know of several situations I could compare this to. I am not going to compare it to, but it's not unheard of. It's just that this one is pushing the envelope. This is not that I'm saying it is a wink, It is. But listen, it's one thing if the buck say, hey, we want you back. We can only do the minimum. We'll have your bird rights next year and we'll be willing to pay you at or even a little above market value. I think that's one thing.

It's like this is market value. And don't, oh, there are a sign and trade interest. I mean, come on now. That's one thing we should point out. Shams has said that there was a team that was interested in signing and trading him for a comparable number. And by the way, if that is indeed the case, the league would probably like to know what that team was and they would ask. Sure. And if that is true, that would kind of get the bucks out of trouble. So this contract is just so far out of line in terms of his production and the comps in this market. It doesn't make any sense unless it was wink winked a year ago. But what, like, what's the worst punishment for the bucks?

they have to pay the contract, honestly. Like, do you think other, are, have you heard a lot of other teams complaining? Well, I had an NBA executive tell me this week in Vegas that the penalty shouldn't be that the contract would get voided. The penalty should, if the bucks are found to have done this and it's a big if and I'm not accusing them, do not want that in my life. This executive said to me, hey, if they are found guilty of this, the contract should be doubled on their books. Not wiped out, should be doubled. Yeah. So that'll be investigated and we'll have to see.

Okay, now that that's put to bed, we are joined from New York City from the Javitt Center, I believe, right, Dave McManamanaman? That is right. Music just started playing right at the start of this taping, so we're going to have to roll with it. No, we hear you fine. I don't know if you can hear us, we hear them fine.

Okay, I can hear you guys, perfect. So this is Fanatics Fest. For the indecision. Yeah. There you go. So you were there, you flew all the way there from L.A. And as soon as I heard you were doing it, I was like, I can't believe you're going all the way back to New York for this. For LeBron's various appearances at Fanatics Fest on Thursday.

And you slash, we learned what, Dave? Okay, we did learn his first thoughts on his exit from the Lakers. And he took the high road, which is not necessarily surprising based on his initial tweet after you know, several hours after Rich Paul told Jeannie Bus and Rob Polink that LeBron would be moving on. But it was still notable. Also notable, I was trying to find a way to get in there. This is a way bigger sprawling event than I think I realized. I go through a curtain. Fortunately, one of the security guys recognized me for being an NBA fan. So I get spit out right in front of the stage and they're getting ready to start the program.

and so I just go try to find the first open seat right next to JJ Redick. Was he happy to see him? I was going to say, I'm sure he was through. He was friendly. It was friendly. And listen, I think there's some degree, Brian, you can speak to this even better than I can, LeBron's a showman. And this was part of the program to continue to hype up the last major basketball decision of his career.

and there have already been two events on Thursday. There's a third one on Thursday, Time 100 Dallas, and there's a fourth event Friday where he has a live taping of the shop with Novak Yolkovich as the special guest. I don't anticipate us learning his decision on either of those two events. Would it be great if he was explaining it to the Joker? Like, what if Jokovic tries to talk him into playing with Yokic,

his buddy. That would be fun. Yeah. And guess what? If that happens, people like myself will be writing and tweeting and going on television and podcasts

to talk about it, which again feels like is part of the apparatus this week. Well, yeah, if it doesn't happen, you'll still be talking about it. And we're still going to lead it. Like, NBA today will be led with LeBron

until LeBron actually for several days after he makes his decision probably. Yeah, how about Dave? How about he was like, well, this is my third free agency. I was like, whoa, Mr. James. It's your fourth buddy. we felt all of them, and this one's gone on longer than the other three put together. Not that we're getting tired of waiting here.

He did correct the record in his second appearance of the day. He was counting right. There you go. Rich Klyman. He got it up to number four. So, yeah, I mean, listen, this is a legitimate process to some degree, of course, because all the factors he asked the way, trying to land the plane correctly, what's been a Hall of Fame career, if not at top.

three or two or one, best career in NBA history, family, style of play, what Kosti wants to live on, what teammates he could fit with, what business opportunities he can have in that market, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But, Brian, as you have kind of reported on over the last week or so, and it is my gut instinct, if he's not 100% where he's going yet, he's got to be darn close to 99% at this point. Yeah, I think you leave the door open to see if things change. But that's one of the things is that in the past day,

teams that wanted LeBron did moves to sort of till the earth, seed the ground to try to get him there. And that's not happening this time. I mean, the Sixers were trade for Jalen Brown no matter what. It wasn't like they did that to get LeBron. And now the teams are kind of like, well, we might make some changes to our roster after you have to say you would come. And we'd appreciate you'd say you'd come. So we'd have time to do that because, you know, options are more limited.

But that's one of the things that I was hoping to hear from him today. Not just me, Dave, but the other teams, they wanted to hear what his priorities were. Because, like, for example, as you reported on and talked about throughout the season, this last year playing with Luca and Austin Reeves, LeBron became a third option, and he had to generate offense sometimes by just outrunning people up and down the court. And he had to stand on the side. He'd never played that way before. So, you know, I don't know how much of that contributed to him leaving the Lakers. But, you know, it had to be on the decision pie.

So does he want to go to Cleveland, for example, where it's, you know, I know that James Harder and Donovan Mitchell are not the same as Reeves and Donchich, but it's comparable and play the same. same style. You know, that would be the case in Philadelphia. Like, what's his decision? You know,

that's the thing that, you know, we don't know. I have no doubt he would fit anywhere. He can play all five positions even now. I have no doubt

he can play different ways. But what does he want to do? That, Dave, I think, is what teams are interested in finding out. And he didn't give clues to that. Other than the fact that he popped out his chest a little bit

when he asked or answered a fan's question about his free agency decision. And basically, I know all the ins and outs of basketball. I'm going to fit in, but I'm also going to pour into whatever teammates I play with, and I'm a natural born leader. And again, maybe that, I mean, maybe I'm just sifting through the comments to try to figure out the Laker exit

because that's part of my job. But maybe that was hinting at some of the reason he left beyond his taking the high road comments that he started off with. Well, you mentioned earlier landing the plane. working. Did you hear about Pat Riley's comments today at Janus's press conference? I actually am not. I'd love to hear it. So Pat Riley made sure he was on stage for Janus's arrival. And I did a big press conference today. They didn't just do it in the media room where there's the constant buzz. Any interview you ever see in the heats interview room, you just listen.

You hear a buzz in the background. It's totally been there for 20 years. I would know that buzz in my sleep. They were out in the court. And Pat Riley said, we landed one plane. now we got to land the other. And I don't think he was talking about Contagius Caldwell Pope. I think they landed Flight 7 today. That's Janus's new number. And I think they'd like to put number six back into circulation. Did Janus count up to five, six, seven in Greek?

That would have been nice. That would have been cool. It would be good for content. But, you know, Riley came out and like let it be known. Like, we're not done. We want them. And that's a little pitch to LeBron. You know, he knows LeBron's a showman, and that's Riley's a showman as well.

You know, Kenny Aackinson trying to do his little recruiting pitch when he ever got a microphone in front of him in Vegas. Apparently, Tyrese Halliburton tried to do a little recruiting pitch. And that didn't last very long. We'd get a couple of laughing emojis in response. And that was, yeah, he was rebuffed. And Tyrese, I mean, that was a notable moment, right? Tyrese said that even before LeBron informed the Lakers that he would be leaving and moving on, Tyrese made a play for him, was returned to laughing emojis.

I do think that helps me try to answer the other question that I've been really curious about. Rich Paul told me that 27 teams have he's been in contact with or they've contacted him about LeBron. And we know the Lakers aren't, I don't know if the Lakers count on that one. That's what I said, because the Lakers did like want to meet with. Right. So they did. So let's say the Lakers still count. So one of the three teams that didn't. Indiana, I was like, I don't know if that would be one, but I guess Indiana is one. Do we think Memphis did? Good point. We got a great air. So I have to believe that I should find out if Boston did. I think Boston would rank 30th on his list. I really honestly do. He hates Boston. I wonder if OKC did. I wonder if the Spurs did. I don't know. My understanding there was some sort of Spurs dialogue. I don't know whether it was pitching, but it was some sort of dialogue.

If there's a premium clutch client on the team, they probably did, which in the case of San Antonio. And the Spurs clearly do have that. I would say so. And by the way, the Thunder might do it just because they would be like, well, the Spurs are probably going to reach out because of Fox. We should reach out too. I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If nothing else, then just play defense. But I would guess Memphis might not have.

and Boston would have to, right? They would have to. You'd think, right? I think Boston would rank 30 at Dave. Do you agree? I do agree. Last year, LeBron came back. He had the sciatica that caused him to miss time,

and the Lakers loan trip to Boston was in that window before he was playing back-to-backs, and he missed the game. He was not sad about missing. I do not think he enjoys. He's had some great games in Boston. I don't. Yeah.

By the way, one interesting thing that he said, and I forget the exact context, but he mentioned something about it. He's going to decide where he's going to spend the last few or two or one year of his career. I thought that was... That made Dave's hair go further gray. Oh, yeah, well, Brian, what did you text me, Brian?

Which I thought was a very astute observation. Well, one thing that I noticed, McMahon, as I was watching this today, was that LeBron's beard, which was very gray on the golf course last week, was very dark today. Yeah. Well kept and nice and dark, which means that this isn't got me one year.

He didn't bring up potentially three years today. That seems like a lot. But I could very well see it being two years, and part of that is the success he's had joining new teams where the example that he's had is, year two, we win in the championship. Dave, look, I'm just going to say I have no insight. I have no information.

You know that I'm from Cleveland. You know my ties there. The more I've looked at this and the more I've had conversations, the more Miami makes sense to me. And now when I hear him thinking about a couple of years, it makes even more sense to me. Why? Why Miami?

Because I think that's where he goes and fits. He can go there and have the ball. He also can go there and be protected on defense. Cleveland can be protected on defense, for sure. but he wouldn't have the ball. I mean, I want to be clear. He can play with anybody. You think I don't think he can play with anybody?

He can do anything. But like, I don't see him playing with Donovan and Hardin as being a clean fit. Of course he can do it. I just don't see that clean fit. In Miami, I see the fit in Miami makes more sense to me. And I've come to that as I've watched this unfold for the last three weeks and had a bunch of conversations. And I'm not trying to cause any problems. I'm not trying to report anything.

I'm just telling you. my perception. I do think the point, so I interrupt him, but I do think the point about the ball in his hands, that is the undisputed basketball fit in terms of the way we've seen him enjoy playing basketball his entire career, and there's a major need for it. Obviously, Janus has expanded his game, playing some points. All right, sorry about that fellas. We've got a call from our esteemed producer, Brian Franey. I need to get my butt out on the 11th and 35th to do Sports Center hit. But I I appreciate joining and talk to you soon. All right.

Thanks to McMeneman. McMahon. What do you think of all that? Well, the only point I would make about the fit in Miami is what's the one thing if LeBron's going to have the ball in his hands that he most needs around him? Shooting. And that's the one biggest flaw in that Miami roster. Now, they've gotten some, you know, Tim Hardaway, Fontechio, like, they've got some shooting. but playing with Bam out of bio and Janus,

there's going to be some, I think Janice honestly needs to have the ball in his hands as well. I think there will be some fit things that would have to be figured out there. Those are absolutely reasonable points. I don't dispute any of that. You would have to build them out, but that's why I'm reacting to him thinking about playing multiple years.

Like that would be an acknowledgement that, you know, I'm not necessarily done. And maybe this is something that is a two-year project. Also, you'd be wagering on Pat Riley and Andy Ellesberg figuring out how to build out the team. You know, and that's... Yeah, but regardless, though, he'd be playing with two... I'm not like non-shooters is strong for Bam, but two guys who you don't fear. as perimeter shooters. Because like the figuring out is like those two guys,

Bamatabio and Janus are going to be in the starting lineup and on the floor for the vast majority of minutes that they're especially come playoff time. So I just, you know, I do think there would be some pretty significant fit challenges with Miami as well. He would just be very clearly, you know, second or 1B on the pecking order in terms of having the ball his hands.

Where I hear what you're saying about Cleveland. I just don't think it would be as strong. Like, Luca was the very clear number one, and then they got to a point where it was defined one, two, three. I'm not sure it would be that clearly defined if he's playing with Donovan Mitchell and especially James Hard. What do you think, if he chose Miami, do you think that they would have cookies for him at his, when he arrived?

Do you know the cookie thing, right? I don't know the cookie thing. I guess this will be our SOFI. Get your money right. Throwback of the week. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. So you're not aware of the story about how Pat Riley pulled the cookies? No.

Well, first off, the interesting thing about this is that when LeBron came to Miami, so the night of the decision, one of the people that actually, the people who kind of knew first were the pilots. They actually had two planes at the, I assume it was the Westchester County Airport in New York. They had two planes, and the pilots had to know where to fly the plane. So the pilots actually knew he was going to Miami because they said, hey, we're going to Miami. So they remember the night after the decision was when they had that big shindig down there.

The pep rally. Yeah, where they all, which by the way, you have to admit, it was pretty, it gets remembered not five, not six, not seven. But it was pretty badass. I mean, it was the show. It was, yeah, as far as, as as introductory press conferences go, it was definitely the most memorable I've ever seen. Absolutely.

It was amazing. And I mean, it was arrogant and regretful, but, you know, in the moment, incredible, incredible. So anyway, they get in the planes. For some reason, they needed two planes. They had so many people. They fly down.

And the side story on that is that they're, they're like sort of reading Twitter and they're seeing that the decision is being destroyed. That was in the infant days of Twitter. It wasn't like you's ubiquitous for like the the way it would become later on. But like, let's just say that the mood from what it was described to me was

somber. Despite them flying down to Miami to their new place and whatever, like it was somber. And like there was even this thought like, oh my gosh, did we make a mistake? And then they landed in Miami. and the letter came out. The comic sans font. Not that I think that they would have changed their mind,

but whatever, you know, this was the way it was described to me by somebody involved years later. And, you know, maybe LeBron would say, you're dead wrong. I mean, I'm not trying to get inside his head. But when the letter came out, the bridges were burned.

The miracle was that they were able to reconstruct the bridge four years. And potentially again, yet again, eight years later, it would be amazing. But the funny thing is, is that they didn't know what to bring to the airport because the heat, like, they were confident, but they, like, I'm telling you, like, this is the thing that, as I'm talking to teams, like, I remember Dan Gilbert, you know, saying to me one time, he's like, we didn't know LeBron was coming back until after he announced it. like the Lakers had some heads up,

but like it wasn't like the Lakers had 12-hour notice he was signing there. Like LeBron is going to say it and then inform the team or very close to it. LeBron wants to make a splash when he makes it when he changes teams. He wants the announcement, and that's what this whole thing is about right now. LeBron wants to make a splash. Okay. And so like, but yet like it was a viral thing on Thursday that Steve Kerr likes, you know, I don't know if he was in Vegas or California, wherever he was.

and he lives in San Diego in the offseason. But, you know, somebody walked, walked up to him in his car. And he said, yeah, we got LeBron. And like, yeah, somebody's like, hey, we got to get LeBron. He's like, oh, we got him. Yeah, okay. People were like, the Warriors have him. Like, yeah, that's how it would be announced.

Steve Kerr yelling out the side of his car. Anyway, so the heat didn't have anything really prepared, at least at that night. So Eric Spolstra brought a plate of cookies. He didn't know what else, like, you know, what do you bring to your superstar. When you have like two hours notice, you're going to see him at the airport. I'm surprised the heat of all, like, I thought cookies might be banned from their facilities. Well, you've now got the other half of the story. So when the heat would fly, they, the catering, you know, everything in Miami is different, McMahon. Like, you know this. The heat. Eat culture, baby. Jackson's asked what kind of cookies? Apparently it was somebody's homemade cookies. Like there was whoever took care of the catering for the plane.

made these homemade cookies or there were these special cookies for LeBron. LeBron loved these cookies. Well, the heat are fanatical about weight. I mean, they, like, typically players are weighed two or three times during the season, like once at the beginning, once at the end. The heat players are weighed like every day. I remember Shane Badiere, who told me once, if you have a big lunch, they know it,

which is part of the reason that, that one of the most fascinating stories of LeBron's career was that he gained like seven pounds during a game. I'm just not sure about the science behind that. Okay. So I don't know what to say about it. Mike Miller told me the story that LeBron, because in Miami they weigh these guys all the time.

And LeBron started weighing himself. And I know it doesn't make sense, McMahon. I'm not saying that it actually, I don't have to tell you. All I know is this. Mike Miller told me that LeBron weighed himself before. I guess he used to weigh himself before and after every game when he was in Miami. Maybe he still does. I don't know.

And somehow he weighed like 261 before the game and 268 after the game or something like that. Maybe put both feet on the scale the second time. McMahon, I am not denying anything you could just say here. You could say that he was holding a battle. What do you want me to say? Okay? They changed shoes and they were heavier. But I said, Mike Miller told me this story.

And I was like, it cannot be true. I asked Mike Manzias, Mike. Did LeBron have a game? It was apparently during the conference finals. This is the bronze long time. Yes. Personal trainer, I guess would be the personal position. I said, Mike, did LeBron really gain seven pounds during a game?

He goes, yes, it was a playoff game. I still didn't believe it. So then I went. and asked LeBron. And LeBron said, yes. It was very strange. I don't know what to make of it. I don't know whether I had drank a lot of a Gatorade or...

God, seven pounds? McMahon, what do you want me to say? All right, let's get back to the cookies. The trainer, I asked LeBron. I hear you. Anyway, the point is... I think it must be a scale foul function, but go on. The point is that the heat were and are fanatical about all of that stuff.

Look, the point about all of this. is that the heat were very, very fanatical about food and weight and stuff like that. And so at some point, near the last year of LeBron's time there, whatever, Riley ordered the cookies off the plane.

Oh. And so LeBron, like, they're taking their flight, and LeBron goes to the, because what they typically do, they put, you know, in the overhead bins, they fill the overhead bins with, like,

I mean, there's food and stuff, but they also would fill the overhead bins with, like, gum and, you know, fruit and snacks, which is, you know, the overhead bins, like, eyeline for an NBA player. They just, and LeBron went to go get his cookies, and the cookies had been banned by Riley from the plane, which, you know, angered LeBron. And, you know, some people have been like, that's why he left. That's obviously not why he left. But the point is that Pat Riley was like, he, so my. So Riley makes this joke today about land the plane. I'm thinking like if LeBron comes back to Miami, they have got to have a cookie bar. By the way, like as if LeBron was ever not in optimal shape.

Like those cookies were causing him. He won two MVPs with the four finals. But look, this is how Riley rolls, you know. And Riley is probably at or below his playing weight in his mid-70s now. I think he's in his 80s now, isn't he? Is he in his 80s? I believe so. Well, anyway, so Jackson wants to know what kind of cookies.

Jackson, I don't know. I assume, let me Google it. But I was, that would be like a good way to like sort of just restart the chocolate chip cookies, it says, Jackson. And he must have a recipe. Mario Chalmers told the story on a podcast. That's where it came from. So if Mario told it, it can't be wrong. Absolutely not.

81, Pat Riley is, Jackson says. Yeah? So for all I know, LeBron doesn't eat cookies anymore. I mean, he's, you know, he's pretty fanatical about everything. So look, maybe he signs in Philly. Maybe he signs in Golden State. Maybe he goes back to Cleveland. Are you counting out the Timberwolves?

Is that what you're doing? I'm not counting out anybody. I don't have, you know, it's not a comfortable thing to say that you don't know in our jobs. but it's it's the responsible thing. And when I played golf, I had the wonderful, the event earlier this week with Scott Morrison's foundation to the max. And one of the teams head coaches, one of the teams recruiting LeBron's head coach played in front of me. And one of the team's general managers who's recruiting LeBron played behind me. And at various times during the day, I was with each of them.

and sometimes they're with each other. And they didn't know that they were asking me. The next day I was at a hotel, another one of the head coaches who was recruiting LeBron, he asks me. And then I see another with a team president for one of them is like, what do you think? I'm like, I don't know, man. I wish I could tell you. And he's like, I think he's going to Cleveland. I'm like, what do you want me to say?

Like people, I assume at some level, maybe the ownership level that there has been some conversations, you know, that maybe there is a very few set of people that know that it's moving in one direction or another. Do you think LeBron has made his decision and is now just plotting how it announced? Knowing LeBron like I know him, and I'm certainly not in his circle and I'm certainly not saying that I have special insight,

but knowing... Well, that's his former high school teammate. Knowing his psychology, the high school team was 3 and 17 when I was a senior. knowing his psychology, I would suspect that he is known for some time the direction he's heading. But obviously the decision is not finalized yet. I mean, that's not. But I could be wrong.

I could be wrong with, man. He could announce and say that he came to it to it the night before. Yeah. Well. And maybe the decision is finalized. And maybe he just want, like, again, like he is a showman. And I think part of this is he wants to be very calculated on. when, where, and how he releases this information to the world.

And he's got the entire league kind of, you know, he's got the attention to the entire league. There's still a few free agency things like, you know, Peyton Watson and Benedict Mathur, and there's some restricted free agents out there. But like, for the most part, the business of the league is done. Not done, but, you know, it's a very slow time in the year. As far as players changing teams, like there's extension business to go on. Right, right. And that could lead to things.

But in terms of player movement, we're probably in the high 90% of player movement. Yeah, it's a very slow time of the year. And this is, it's stretched. This is further than it's ever stretched in terms of the time of July. Like, man, it's on the verge of being longer than all three put to all three free agencies put together. So in, I believe, July 9th, July 8th, July 9th, and July 1st for the three times he traded. So that's 17 days.

The difference is on all three previous occasions, because you had to have max cap space or, you know, the first time in Miami, at least close to Max Cap Space to be able to land him, he did hold up business around the league. That's not the case here. He's not holding up business. True. I'm just saying that, like, I believe one was July 8th, one was July 9th, and one was July 1st. That's 17, I'll call it 18 days, and we're July 16th. Yeah. So, all right, thank you to Dave McManaman. Thank you to all of our producers on here, Tucker, Mark, Jackson, at all. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching to The Hoop Collective. Will we get until Monday, I guess Tuesday for our next podcast, or will we have to emergency pod before then?

I guess we'll wait and find out. World Cup finals. on Sunday. I think LeBron is planning on being there. Who's playing? Argentina and Spain. Who you rooting for? I was rooting for England, but I was mesmerized by Messi, and so, you know, they were correctly, the correct team won, Argentina. So I don't have a dog in the fight, but LeBron, I believe, is planning on being there.

So we'll see if he does it after that. All right. We will wait on pens and needles. Ayos amigos.