Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Ballmer Accepts Punishment, Kawhi Trade Finally Completed + NBA Owners’ Meetings Expectations

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Vince Goodwill to talk about the Clippers’ owner Steve Ballmer accepting the NBA’s punishment and how that may have cleared the path for the completion of the Kawhi trade to the Raptors. The crew breaks down what we can expect from Kawhi on the court, discusses some wild stories from his previous stint in Toronto and if we will see elite performance once again. Plus, we tackle what Brian is watching in NBA owners' meetings like the state of expansion in the NBA and Adam Silver's tone about the Clippers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You gotta try breakfast. And what better way than with a delicious pre-organic coffee? Starting with just $1 all day, every day now until December 31st. You gotta try breakfast. I'm participating in A&W locations in Ontario. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA. We don't talk about college football.

This is an NBA podcast, which we are doing on Monday afternoon. Joining me from the New York City area is Vince Goodwell. What up, though, Wendy? What up, though, McMahon? He's referring to the gentleman in Dallas, Texas, who won the wager that we had, which is why I'm currently wearing Texas Longhorns cap. It's Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners?

And hook them. Wendy, that is a good-looking hat. Matches my T-shirt, actually. I believe the fine folks from Lids provided that for you after... turn of our wager. Let's see what they got me. Okay. Oh, little burnt orange Texas hat. I like that look. Okay, we could be Twinkies. But I got to keep, so my boys like the flat bill. I'm a bin-the-bill kind of guy, so we're going to leave that one there. And then... Well, you're in your 50s. What else do we have? We won't need that one. Lidd sent me a very sweet Ohio State hat that has like the Buckeye leaf on it and the Buckeye leaf alone.

I don't have it with me right now. But I feel like if I wore it, I would be accused of, you know, displaying cannabis paraphernalia. I was going to say, after that meltdown slash Texas comeback, you can smoke that bucky leaf and try to forget about it. Eat the pain. We talk about the NBA. Just let it be known. And Vince, you're the witness here.

I don't make many wagers, and I probably won't win again. But I am immediately paying it off. I am doing exactly what I said I would do, which is wear Texas hat. Are we making a wager in late November? No, we're not. No, now he's scared. By the way, that was the last game, Ohio State pretty much won. Like, they've played three big games since they beat Michigan.

They lost all three. Oh, no, they've got a big one this weekend against Kent State at home. I don't see if they can pull that one out. Yeah, I don't think it speaks too well for the slate. I haven't looked at the full college football slate this weekend, but a big noon kickoff, our Fox brethren, a big noon kickoff is Kent State, Ohio State. We got to.

It's the Wendy Bowl. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. Well, I will give Wendy credit. And this is a saying you've heard him use many times on the pod to describe NBA events. Not necessarily even specific games, although it applies there, but just the NBA in general. The only thing he said in various group chats during the game

when Ohio State was up, 23 to 3, even into the fourth quarter, into the fourth quarter, when he just kept saying, there's always time, there's always time. It's one of my mantras I live by it and I was like that. Well, you died by it too, buddy. We talk about the NBA, Vince. I'm sorry. McMahon is just giving you the business.

I was nothing I can say. It was a difficult defeat. Steve Balmer, late on Sunday night. I'd be interested to know. I wish I had some reporting on this. I wish I could say, oh, my sources are telling me. I suspect that there may have been some negotiating with the NBA, and we'll be hearing about that, I think, soon.

But why Steve Balmer decided to put this state, statement out relatively late on a Sunday night in the middle of a Cowboys Giants game. Yeah. I mean, the old Friday afternoon news dump, how about a week one, an NFL week one Sunday night news dump? It was definitely, like the negotiating, I'm sure occurred, but the timing, I think, was like, how can we try to slip this under the radar as much as possible? Right. So he apologizes to the fans and employees and his fellow team owners. I think that's relevant because I do think that in the wake of this report, Vince, that, you know, based on the conversations I was having, the owners were really pissed off by this report.

Because Balmer, you know, has, I don't want to say has or had, but Balmer really had earned, he was well liked amongst owners. Not all of them, I'm sure, but I think they wanted, this, I do think in general, I think the owners wanted to believe them. And I talked to a handful of them over the last year. And I would always ask about the balmer. Sometimes they would bring it up to me. Sometimes they would ask me what I had heard because they were not getting briefings. But I think that there was a belief that they didn't want Steve to be guilty of this.

And then this report, you know, and he doesn't plead guilty in this. He basically, he says, we are committing. to put this chapter behind this. And we have communicated to the NBA that we are complying with the penalties assessed by the league, have paid the $30 million fine and are moving forward. Just like Kauai, he moved on to Toronto.

They're moving forward. We'll talk about Kauai in a few minutes here. But Vince, I think the fact that he said, I want to apologize to fellow NBA owners. I don't think that should be a line. We should just move past. I think there was a reason exactly why he phrased it that way. We think of Steve Balmer as being one of the newer owners.

But if you think about it, so many teams have changed hands over the past decade or so, even especially since Adam Silver took over. He's not kind of old guard. He's not exactly a blue blood, but he's old money relative to that and had a pretty good reputation as far as ethics when it comes to these things. So it was really surprising for people to hear him being associated with something like this. And there was just enough gray area in the investigation. Like there wasn't, and I think, you know, we've all seen it, wasn't like the smoking gun, right? It was just a preponderance of circumstantial evidence that led it to be more likely than not, right? That you could come to the conclusion that, hey, like, what's the NCAA phrase that we used to use back in the old days,

lack of institutional control? Oh, yeah. I think that's kind of where Balmer sits. And for a minute, guys, I don't know about you. Balmer was so ubiquitous at these games. I felt like taking a team away for a year, the embarrassment of that, what I almost caused him to want to sell, just to get out of, you know what I mean? Like, if you're taking a team away from me for a year, like you're cutting something out of me.

I wondered if he was one to get out of the business, the NBA business at that point, just because of the embarrassment of it. Well, the last NBA owner who got suspended, which was Robert Sarver, he did sell. So like, and again, I'm having- He sold under pressure to sell, though. I understand that, but my point is, like, look, I was not sure, and I don't have ironclad reporting on this. I may have better feel later in the week. This happened late Sunday night.

We're doing this early Monday afternoon. I may learn more about it. But one of the things that people were wondering in the league was they've just taken away all these draft picks. They've kneecapped him. He's being suspended. Where's Balmer's head at as remaining the owner? You know? And it wasn't like anybody, there wasn't, you know, that's not like anybody reporting that he was thinking about selling.

But I think there was like, boy, this is such a severe penalty. Is this something, you know, that he would mull over? Well, I wondered if he would sell all. almost out of spite. Like when he was going guns blazing with the letter from the lawyer and the, you know, like very fiery statement from the team, I wonder if he was just going to say, you know what, screw you. I'm selling. And what's crazy is with Balmer, like with almost any other owner, as rich as these guys are, he could say, dude, he could sell cash out and make a killing. Like, I don't know what the clippers go for now, six, eight billion, who knows. But it depends. You're including the arena. Right. 10?

I don't know. I'll tell you one thing. They would go for a lot because in all honesty, while the team is kneecapped with its picks, if you were bidding on a team. And here's the other thing. There's bidders. One of the things that happen with the Lakers, there's extra bidders right now. Like there's multiple groups of teams of people who are bidding on this Vegas team. And if you can't have a team in Vegas, boy, would you be interested in having a team?

team in Los Angeles, even if it was a flawed and damaged team. So if you wanted to sell right now, and this is one of the reasons why Mark Walter was able to sell literally in three days, it was it wasn't, it was because Josh Kushner and Bob Eiger had their group already together. They had bid. I think what they bid, from what I am told, what they bid for the team in Vegas for the whole 100% of the team wasn't that far off. for what they're paying for 73% of the Lakers.

But my point is with Balmer, that kind of profit, $8 billion, $10 billion, whatever it is, is a drop in the bucket. I mean, there are days in the stock market where it makes that kind of money. So for him, it would have been selling just out of spite. This statement makes it clear like, okay, hey, I don't want to go to battle with the NBA anymore.

Let's like, I'm putting, you know, putting my weapons down. He doesn't admit guilt, he says, while there are still disagreements considering or concerning the findings in the report, this is not where I want to focus. I wouldn't want to focus on those disagreements either because they're pretty flimsy there, buddy. And I think he's got bigger fish to fry, honestly, as far as inside of his own building at this point, whenever he does come back from the suspension. Let's say the suspension isn't a year.

Let's say six months. Let's say maybe he gets a draft pickback or something like that, and he's able to be back in the arena for games and everything else. there's a huge mess that he's going to have to clean up and some things that he's going to have to assess. You know, you know what I'm like legitimately? And I think you have to start focusing on moving forward. I wonder what does a suspension for an owner mean when you can't go to a game? Does that mean that you can't be consulted on certain things? Like I'm wondering the scope of the suspension and I'm wondering how much of that factors into,

hey, if we cut down this stuff, when can I get back to my team? Like you guys went over at Wendy, I think it was last week. You talked about the Joe Smith stuff of Minnesota, how quick they got their draft picks back. Right. I don't think that will be the case this time. No, no. I don't think it's necessarily going to be that. But I wonder if there's going to be some stuff that's given back to the Clippers.

And if that's the case, could rule number one be, okay, Steve, you're allowed to be back. you're allowed to be back around this team around the franchise because I wonder what this, I wonder what all of this means. A couple of things. First off, so Balmer has yielded basically and we will see. I'm very interested to hear the tone that Adam Silver speaks when he speaks on Tuesday. There is an owner's meeting on Monday and Tuesday. Frankly, I'm interested to see who the acting governor for the Clippers is named because the

Clippers had their governor is obviously Steve Ballmer. He suspended. Their alternate governor is Dennis Wong, who owns a very small percentage of the team. He was not mentioned in the NBA report, but he was implicated because he was an investor in aspiration. And then their second alternate governor is Julian Zucker, who's also been suspended. Won't be her. I wonder who is representing the Clippers at these meetings.

That's one thing. The second thing is I'll be interested to see if there was some sort of understanding or negotiation behind the scenes. with Balmer in the league to basically agree, I'm not going to see you and I'm going to accept the punishment and move on. I'm not expecting the Adam Silver to announce that. You know, is that just, hey, we'll stop digging. These are the penalties.

And whatever happened, you're not going to have the potential of further punishment. Double jeopardy? Is that what we're saying, Tim? Not even double jeopardy, but like the original statement with the ruling made it very clear that if there were, you know, if there was stuff that was found going beyond what was in that 36-page report that there could be further penalties. And I think that was very intentional language. Basically telling Balmer like, you know, mess around and you might find out further. I mean, think about it like this, but beyond that, Timmy. Steve Barmer was a really big advocate. Like, he and Adam Silver are very close.

So I don't think that this is a, I think this is better for both of them. You know what I mean? Like, he's the chair of the finance committee. He's the richest owner in the league. And that's why the 30 million is a drop in the bucket. It makes sense for Adam to have Steve Barmer back on his side. It makes sense for Steve Barmer to be back close to the commissioner

and be able to move away from this stuff as quickly as possible. Even if it's a year from now, you'll be able to resume some level of that, you know, proximity to Adam Silver and Adam Silver to you. I don't want to make any assumptions, but my guess is that the league was not surprised by this statement, that they knew that it was coming. And that the league probably tried to encourage him to make this sort of a statement before the report came out. I would agree. Well, look, you guys know I've said on this podcast, I've written that I've said on other shows, I believe that this is what the Clippers had to do. This wasn't the Clippers. And look, he didn't say guilty because he said they had some issues what was in the report.

In his statement, he said, quote, team owners should support not distract. The challenges ahead of us are significant, blah, blah, blah. What I want to get what he said here about. I think this is the part I read earlier. While there are still disagreements concern in the report, this is not where I want to focus. Yeah. Right. So he didn't, basically, I would say this.

is more of a described as a no contest and a guilty plea, although it doesn't really functionally make a difference. The interesting thing that I don't quite understand is that last week the New York Times reported that the Department of Justice is looking into the Clippers. Now, I am not a criminal defense attorney nor am I a federal prosecutor, so I don't understand what laws potentially could be broken here. You know, I remember when the laws came down, or when the first investigations came down for the gambling scheme, when all those arrests were made, Terry Rozier, Chauncey Billups, Damon Jones, etc. We had a guest on the show who was a formal federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York who prosecuted crimes like this. And she described the parameters

of what wire fraud is. And it sounded to me like I could probably be charged. charged with wire fraud for Venmoing somebody in Iowa to cover a fantasy football. You know, see I'm saying? So like wire fraud can be used, you know, pretty wide ranging. They're not bringing, you know, charges. But the one thing I was talking to a lawyer about this, because I was trying to understand, like, what would the federal government be interested in Steve Ballmer in here? because he certainly, to me, in my view, and certainly Adam Silver's view, was guilty of breaking a whole bunch of NBA laws.

But, you know, part of what got them caught was them the paperwork. You know, really the genesis of Pablo Torre's entire investigation was that Dennis Robertson, Kauai Leonard's uncle, created a LLC so Kauai could get paid. KL2 Aspire, that LLC was a creditor in the in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, I'm just in the, in the, you know, and like, I'm not, I don't have knowledge if there was illicit payments, but I'm just saying like, they were setting up a way to properly get paid, you know, and I'm sure, I shouldn't say I'm sure, but I would say, you know, and I would. to speculate that KL2 might probably file some taxes. Why would you set up an LLC if you weren't going to pay taxes? But my point is this. I talked to a lawyer. What the lawyer said is,

and this is good for you to write down, Vince and McMahon, in case that either any of you guys are ever investigated by a federal grand jury. Part of what the government wants to do is to make sure you cooperate with the investigation. Because part of what you can get in trouble for when you get investigated,

isn't necessarily what they're investigating you for. It can be if you lie or obstruct or whatever. Because you see this a lot of times in Congress, and this is a basketball podcast, but unfortunately in the modern day, whereas a lot of this, they haul people in front of congressional, you know, testimony. They haul up, they bring people in there,

whether they're CEOs or, you know, lawmakers or whatever recently, for example, Anthony Fauci was brought up. And it wasn't so much about what you are accused of having done. It's about what your answers are. Like, if you remember, do you remember when they brought Roger Clemens? Raphael Palmero? Remember that? And they wanted them to testify about whether they did steroids or whatever. They brought charges against Roger Clemens, not for like doing steroids.

They brought charges against him because they thought he lied to comments. Congress. So part of an investigation is, do you commit any crimes while you're being investigated? And I'm sure that if this lawyer who I just reached out to and asked about on a surface level said this, I'm sure Steve Ballmer's very high-price lawyers, are very much advising him and the clippers that this is a big part of it is don't commit any crimes dealing with an investigation. because the New York Times said that a subpoena had already gone out. In other words, if they subpoena something, you better turn it over because even if what you turn over is clean,

if you hide something, you can get busted. So all of that is still out there in existence, but that statement is probably going to be the last we hear from Steve Balmer for a while that he put out, basically apologizing to Clippers fans, because I think this suspension will begin. Now, one thing that I think will also have to happen here is the Clippers, if Steve Ballmer's accepted this, I assume that Gillian Zucker and Lawrence Frank are accepted this too, which means Lawrence Frank would be suspended for six months. The Clippers need to name the head of an

acting head of basketball operations. Right now, if you want to do business with the Clippers, you call Trent Redden, who is their general manager. And they owe it to Trent Redden to say, this is now the guy who's running our team. And they've got a pretty important piece of business to get done. Like, you just lost five picks. You got a chance to get two picks and probably a meaningless lot, but two first round picks and a swap and, you know, some stuff back. Like, what is, like, why would you not want to get this deal done with Toronto ASAP?

You're not bringing Kauai to training camp. I mean, come on. Well, the Raptors want to get it done ASAP. Absolutely. The Clippers, I think, have wanted to take their time because in case they wanted to leave all their options open. My belief at this point, you know, and there could be some new, you know, investigations or what have you or new things. But my belief at this point is that this is going to get done, that they will, in fact, do this deal for what was on the table and it'll get done. But from the Clippers standpoint, whether or not they did the deal September 5th or September 25th, it really doesn't matter.

Like the terms wouldn't change. Certainly the Raptors want Kauai Leonard to start. Now, I was talking to an executive today, and he was saying, let's say the deal goes through. And Kauai signs an extension with the Clippers. I mean the Raptors. The Raptors. The whole league knows that Kauai has an extension with the Raptors, like done. like agreed to. And he said the clippers should call for an investigation into how that

extension was negotiated. So, I mean, that's what stuff happens all the time. Right. Exactly. Like, oh, okay, what about that rule? How far are we going to? Does he get a piece of the maple leaves now like he was trying to get before? Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, that's all. But they mean just like the deal hasn't been done, but, you know, Kauai, you know. Right. And they're technically not allowed to negotiate. Right. But this happens all the time.

And the Clippers, I'm sure there's some hurt feelings and anger and all that, that Kauai really left them high and dry. You know, Kauai accepting the plea deal, basically, for a little slap on the wrist, $700,000 fine. Kaui basically copped to a misdemeanor. They got hit with all the felony charges and that lost their right for arbitration. but nobody, I don't feel bad for the Clippers here. Basically, Uncle Dennis and Kauai were asking everybody they talked to for a bunch of stuff you're not allowed to ask for. This is like if a dude says, hey, I want the keys and I don't want to have to follow

any speed limits. And Steve Balmer said, you know what, dude? Yeah, I got the fastest car and I know where all the back roads are. And now Kauai is giving them back the keys and he's saying, hey, your car, it's in a ditch on one of those back roads. I, you know, you all can figure out how to get it out of there.

I need to ride to the airport, though. And so I got to go. And, you know, they got to give them a ride to get their two picks back. I mean, this goes back to the last year of Kauai or Kauai being in Toronto.

Remember the clippers were being investigated or they wound up getting fined or warned or whatever it was for tampering with Kauai Lennert, going back that far as 20, what, 2018? For an AAU recruiting process. I mean, yes, they were, they had multiple people at every freaking Raptors game, basically, all season long. So there's bad blood between my point is to say that there's bad blood between these two franchises that goes back a little bit of a way. Now, Maasai Ujuri, he's not in Toronto.

I mean, now in Dallas, he's not in Toronto anymore. But a lot of those, a lot of the infrastructure for both franchises is still there. Like Doc Rivers is gone. I think Doc Rivers made a statement saying that Co-I. Lennon is like Michael Jordan or something like that and he wound up getting dinged for that. But the point is that there's a pre-existing relationship between these two franchises and it ain't all great. So my thing is, in the words of Bill Belichick, on to Cincinnati.

Like, let's get this trade done so we can all move on. Well, that's what Kauai did. Can I tell a story? Yes, sir. So-Fi, get your money right. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. At A&W, you gotta try to play a W. And what better way than with a delicious pre-organic coffee?

Starting with just $1 all day, every day now until December 31st. You gotta try breakfast at A&W. At participating A&W locations in Ontario. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI. embedded at its core, working across every system, and it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business.

New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on espresso.com.

When Kauai was a raptor, that one year he was a raptor. Now he'll be more years. I don't know, like mid to mid-November or early December, I heard, I talked to somebody who worked for the raptors. And he's like, we got Clippers guys coming to every single game. we're credentialing clippers scouts at every single game even though um they're not like you know if you get if you get if you get our scouting request you're going to you're going to come okay i mean you're going to you're going to grant it like if you're if you're if you're let's say

the raptors were hosting the wizards in a game and you get a request from the clippers to grant you're going to grant it because you never know when you want your raptor scout to go to a clippers game, right? It's generally granted. But the raptors started noticing because in Toronto, Clippers, scouts, or scouts would always want to come to Toronto back in those days, because Toronto had great scouting seats. This is one thing that different arenas give different seats to scouts. And like sometimes scouts will say, oh man, there's a, like, for example, in Dallas for years, the scouts have gotten a great seat near the bench near the court, McMahon. And, Oklahoma City, that was the case for many years.

Well, for many years, the scouting seat in Toronto was one of the best seats. And scouts were like, I want to go scout in Toronto because I can get so close to the bench. Well, as you can imagine, because there was a demand for the scouting seats, you know, they only had maybe two of them or so, two or three. Right. That's the advanced scouting seat, which is different than proportion of that. It doesn't matter. You don't have to, you know, yes, but you're correct, the advanced scouting seats. But the point is, is that the Raptors, and this isn't unique to Toronto.

This would happen in other arenas too. But specifically in Toronto, they would get multiple advanced scouts or scouts who wanted to come scout again because they knew the seat was so good. So what they would do, and again, I want to underline this, that this is not something that only the Raptors did, but it became rarer and rarer for scouts to have good seats. So Toronto, this became more of a thing. the Raptors would look. They would say, okay, we have, let's say it's a Wizards, Raptors game. They're like, oh, we have these requests from these four teams. Which two teams should we give the seat to?

And they would look ahead and they would see, oh, the wizard's next opponent. Let's say it was the 76ers. The wizard's next opponent is requested a seat. Let's give the 76ers the seat right here so that they can get a good angle. Or let's just even, sometimes it would even be the Raptors. next opponent. Let's say the Raptors next opponent was the Celtics. Let's give the Celtics the seat. Now, why would they do that? They did that because it was a courtesy so that when the Raptor scouts would want to come to Philadelphia or wherever. Okay. And by the way, sometimes, like for example,

the Knicks for decades have screwed scouts. They don't give scouts good seats. So no matter when the, so the Knicks, and I'm not saying, again, I have to qualify this a thousand times because I'm protecting on aggregation. Just bear with me. The Knicks, for example, example, their scouts, a lot of times, would never get a good seat. So even if the Knicks were playing the Wizards next, the Raptors would be like, well, they always screw our, well, the Raptors and Knicks have their own. I was going to say, plus there was like some stuff working out in the courtrooms there, but yes. Right.

But there would be times when like a franchise would send orders, hey, don't give Team X good seats. They screw our scouts. It happened to be the Knicks a lot. But it, you know. So, but my point is, is that there was a, there was an analysis done by the Rappers. afters before games about where to put scouts. So the Raptors started noticing the Clippers are coming to every single game. And then they started looking when they were going on the road.

You know, they'd be playing in Cleveland. And they'd look, are the Clippers playing Cleveland anytime? So they're not playing the Raptors any time. So the Clippers playing. No, they're not. So they started to notice that the Clippers were at, and I think even there was even one game where Lawrence Frank, the team president, came to watch a game.

It is, it's not unheard of, but it is, it is unusual. Very unusual. Maybe in a place like Los Angeles where the team might also be in town or whatever, you might see that. But in a place like Toronto, it would be very unusual for the general manager or president of a team who was not involved in the game to come to the game. Okay. But Lawrence Frank, as I recall, actually you had come to a Clippers, a Raptor,

game or two. And so the Raptors were like, this is getting a little bit ridiculous that the clippers are so blatantly like smothering Kauai as you say, McMahon, like an AAU team. Yeah, it's like AAU recruiting where you show up to the guys' games all the time and, you know, just to be seen. You just wanted them to see you. That's all. I just wanted them to see you. And so I said on this podcast and or wrote in the paper or, you know, paper, my God, wrote online, like, boy, the clippers are sending a heck of a lot of people to these. Raptors games, and I got a Blitzkrieg text from someone at the Clippers who will be unnamed.

This is back in 2018, 19, right? About how out of line I was. How out of line you were. Right. Like, um, not them, you. Yeah, like, audacity. Like, audacity, how, who are you to say and who are you or the Raptors to say when, where we send our scouts?

You know, and I don't remember what the. verb I used, but the individual took issue with the verb that I used, whatever I said about how the clippers were acting. And so, you know, like, whatever. So then when they signed him the next year, the clippers bragged about it. They were like, we had, I don't, and I don't remember the number, so I'm generalizing. But they were talking about their recruiting process or whatever, and they were like, we had personnel at some number of games. I can't remember if it was 47 or 59 or whatever it was. The Raptors felt like it was 82.

Right. Well, the Raptors, this was before the shenanigans, right? So the Raptors' back was already up. Now, look, they won the championship, and you guys know winning the championship means never saying you're sorry. So after that happened, I took that quote, which I can't remember if Lawrence Frank said it or Steve Ballmer said it. And I sent it to the unnamed individual.

high ranking at the clippers. And I said, what are we doing here? I was like, what is this about? And I got a shrug emoji back. And I had forgotten about that. I shouldn't have forgotten about that. Nothing they did with Kauai was on the up and up the entire time. This was Steve Balmer deciding that rules, regulations, protocols, none of that stuff applied to the clippers. Kauai's felt for a long time, certainly Uncle Dennis has felt for a long time, and none of that stuff applies to them. And it's the way that they went about the recruiting process, clearly the deals that they made that were blatant cap circumvention. I mean, the freaking injury reporting stuff. Kauai was day to day with a torn ACL. I mean, give me a break.

Like everything they did was Steve Ballmer, again, handing the keys to Uncle Dennis and Kauai, and saying, whatever you say goes, and that's how the Clippers ended up in this ditch. Now, was it a risk that a lot of franchise, franchises might have taken? Truth is, yeah, did it completely blow up in the Clippers face? Absolutely. And not only did they give up the foundation to OKC's championship team, but now they're getting hit with five more picks, and they got squat to show for it. You know, it's funny.

I just thought about that because that was at the tail end, so to speak, of quote unquote player empowerment era, right? Like we aren't in that anymore. But I wonder if a player who fits that particular profile, finals MVP, perhaps the best two-way player in the game, injury risk, if he is a possible free agent in today's era, would that player still hold that type of leverage over the entire league? Remember, that summer, it wasn't just the clippers going from,

the Lakers really wanted them. Toronto wanted to keep him. There were a multitude of teams, despite everything we knew about Coah Leonard from a help standpoint, what we found out about from him and Uncle Dennis later, that really, really wanted him. And I wonder if we fast forward that timeline, it's not the summer of 2019, more, the summer of 2027, the summer of 28, whatever it is, if that could be recreated, if a player could have the whole league on hold,

the way that Kauai Leonard had the league on hold, let alone somebody extra stuff, but just from the climate of where the league is now compared to where the climate of where the league was, then if that could be recreated. Yonis had the league on hold, did he not? And Yonis is a significant injury risk. I mean, you look at his games played in recent years.

But not a free agent. Okay, but... You know what I mean? What's the difference between a free agent and a guy who is that caliber of player and asks to be traded. You know, they're still dictating a lot of things. And so, you know, I just think what we saw play out with the honest tells you that when there's that type of talent, you know, they're always going to have a lot of leverage. He's still dictating it.

He's still dictating it. He, you know, I mean, according to the reporting, like, I don't know who to give proper credit to this, but he told us. but he told the clippers, I want to be sent to Toronto or San Antonio. Which San Antonio is hilarious. Boy, boy, boy. He's going to get there and then he's going to get extended. He's still dictating it. Yeah, I am not sure the interests. Was the spurs?

The interests? Did they have that level of interest? I got traded to the Raptors. That's all you need to know. Yeah, I would just say, I'm not sure that that was something that both sides were motivated and make happen. Well, Toronto seems pretty happy. with the deal. They want it done like yesterday. And I get it because for them,

it does raise their ceiling to where contending is at least in the realm of possibility. Well, by the way, I just want to point out, so, you know, they're trading Brandon Ingram. Ingram had a poor playoffs performance against the calves.

Then he got hurt, and I believe he had surgery in May. He had surgery on his foot in May. And so like, I don't, you know, this is a guy who signed for 120 million and, you know, didn't exactly deliver, you know, and obviously it's also costing them draft cap, but I'm not ignorant of that. But, you know, do you guys know what Kawhi's, what Kawhi's numbers were last year? And I totally understand.

Oh, they're monster numbers. The idea of assuming that he's going to be able to play 65 games this year is, you know, it's beyond a risk. I understand that. But he finished seventh in MVP voting. That's the highest an MVP voting he'd finished since his first year in L.A. So it was arguably his best year of the decade. 28 points, 51% shooting, 39% on threes. Six rebounds, four assists, 65 games. And they are knocked out and playing, which here's the, I'm with you, the crazy thing about that with Kauai is he's going to be 35. He's still really, really good.

Like, there's going to be a point. Like, we're talking about this now because it's the middle of September and media day isn't for another two weeks. But there's going to come a point in the season where we're going to be talking about how incredible Kawhi Leonard as a basketball player is. And all that other stuff won't even matter. He's not getting suspended.

The $700,000 is a drop in a bucket. You won't see that coming to effect in terms of salary cap or how available he is or whatever. whatever the case may be. Like, he's going to go out there and play. And to some degree, make people forget he was even involved in this nonsense. And according to the NBA, they're not sure that he was involved in the nonsense. I said, according to the NBA, McMahon, I ain't said according to my common sense.

Listen, the risk that the Raptors are taken with Kauai has nothing to do with this entire investigation. It's just Kauai Leonard, with his durability issues, in his mid-third. 30s and you're about to give him a fat extension. Like, how is that going to age? You said he's going to get on the floor and play and make people forget. I don't know how often he's going to be on the floor. Last year it was the majority of the time. But that's the risk the Raptors are taking.

Would you take a bet that he would play 60 to 65 games this year? No, I would bet against it. Just like. You guys want to bet a hat bet? Absolutely not. I will say this. We did our top 100 voting, you know, that's going to be revealed or whatever it is. And I think I had Kuwait like number eight.

And if I knew he was going to be available for 82, he might have been higher than that. You know, I might have put him higher. You know, I might have put him higher than a Kay Cunningham or an Anthony Edwards or whoever else. But he's still that caliber of player on both ends of the floor. The question becomes how is that body going to age? LeBron and Steph and some of these other guys have made a mockery of aging. Well, it's not aging well. Right.

No, like you just said, you just said, Wendy, he had a career year at this stage of his. Well, it wasn't a career year. It was the best year of the 20s, is what I said. You could make the argument, Wendy, that this was the best regular season year of his career. I wouldn't say it, but you could make the argument from a number standpoint, from an efficiency standpoint, that this was a top two, top three years. that he's played. It was his highest scoring season. Now, he's not like his last.

He's not the two, he's not the defender that he would used to be. Right. That's what I was going to say. His last healthy year in San Antonio when he, that was the year he finished third in MVP voting. Russ won it and Hardin was second. Like,

that's when he was legitimately the best two-way guy. That's when he was legitimately, like what he finished. He was third in defense player of the year that year. He had won the previous two defense players of the year. he's not the guy now. Like he can do it, a possession here, a possession there. He's not the guy now where he's going to be a go-to guy

and he's going to shut down the other team's go-to guy. Well, look, in 2019, when he won that MVP with the Raptors, he'd already started to have his injury problems, obviously, but he was a top three player in the league. Yeah. When the Raptors acquired him, or when the Clippers acquired him, he was a top three player in the league. And they load managed him that year.

That's why he played 60 games that year. But the last nine seasons, the year before that, was when he played nine games for the Spurs. And it was like that the whole year was about him and Uncle Dennis Forreston's way out of San Antonio. But the nine years, starting with that, with that, he's played 60 games or more three times. He's played, and that was 60, 65 last year, 68 a couple years ago. And, you know, missed a full year, had a 30. 37 game year.

It is a risky bet to think he's going to play 60 plus games. You know what's crazy? One of the crazy Kauai stories that I always think about that I think is underplayed because it wasn't during the season. Kauai had surgery and give me a little bit of latitude on the exact date here. But Kauai had surgery after the 2000, 23, 24 season. Okay. I think it was in May.

It might have been April. It might have been in May. And then in June, like a month or five weeks after surgery, he tried to show up and play for Team USA. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah. And I remember, like, I remember Team USA tweeting the arrivals of all their players. It was like they're coming. They have arrived in Las Vegas for this six or eight week stretch.

where they're going to try to win the gold medal and everything like that. And I remember seeing Kauai, like, arrive with, like, you know, his gear and everything. And he was clearly limping, clearly, clearly limping. And Team USA took, like, a look at him for, like, two or three days in practice. And they're just like, I mean, Kauai, you can't. We can't play you. And they, you know, they sent him home. And if you remember, like Kauai said, can I just, like, be, like, with the team?

And like, can I be on the roster and basically be at the end of the bench? And they're like, no, we only have 12 players. We need all of them. And, you know, you can't just, you know, there's like a limit to how many people we can know, you know, we can only have three assistant coaches. We can't have like a, you know, like an intern. And what I remember about that is that he then didn't play for the Clippers until after the new year. So what does it say about Kauai Leonard that he would literally, like in some

ways that's like incredibly admirable like oh my gosh you want to play for your country so bad that you would be four or five weeks off knee surgery come to Las Vegas and try to grind your way through getting onto the team because you wanted to be on Team USA so bad like in some ways it's amazingly admirable like that's like a story that you hear about Kobe like the Kobe would do the Kobe would have knee surgery and drag his leg to play for Team USA but then he treats his own team like total crap. Wendy. Who's paying him the money?

What was the Clippers reaction to Team USA saying, Kauai? We can't have you on the roster. We can't have you limping around the Olympics. I quote Lawrence Frank. It was USAB's call and I was quite frankly very disappointed with the decision. Kauai wanted to play. We wanted him to play.

I was there the first two practices. He looked very good, blah, blah, blah. But then you realize he didn't play for six more months. And the clippers were still at the point in their franchise where kissing Kauai's butt, regardless of circumstances and facts, was the organizational philosophy. The guiding light was find Kauai's butt, plant your lips on it. It's duality.

Like what Wendy is saying, Kauai has had a bunch of things, I'm going to say career enders. like the ACL is no longer the career ender, but it definitely alters your career. The injury that he had in San Antonio, a lot of, he hasn't been the same player, the same sports car that he was in. I call him a sports card in.

He's like a SUV right now. And I say that affection. He's like a Lamborghini SUV, but yeah, breaks down like you. Yeah, but I said that. It's like a range rover. But I say that to say,

there's a duality in this of, man, coming back from these injuries, is not an easy thing. Agree. But also to win these points, dude, you're choosing when you want to play and you're holding yourself up and everything else.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't know how to square these two things. Like, the perseverance to come back from these injuries is required. So like, real talk. Like, it used to bother me when Stephen A would get on Kauai for not playing and he would go on about he doesn't, show up for work or whatever. And I was kind of like, Stephen A, he's got, you know, if his knee is coming off surgery,

his knee is coming off surgery. Like, what do you want him to do? Like, have arthroscopic surgery and play, like, the next day. But that all got undercut by him showing up for Team USA and then not playing. Look, I just looked it up. His first game for the Clippers that year was January 2nd. And look, if he's hurt, he's hurt. But you can't show up for Team USA in June and then not play for six more months.

Well, and the simple fact is, Kauai throughout his time with the Clippers, was the franchise's top priority. The Clippers were never, ever, ever, Kauai Lennert's top priority. And you can be mad at Kauai, or you could say, you know what, that's kind of karma for the Clippers, who, by the way, just gave away Chris Paul's number after booting him to the curb in the middle of last season, put Blake's number up to the rafters for a recruiting pitch. and then dumped him to Detroit months later. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. You gotta try breakfast at A and W. You gotta try breakfast at A and W.

And what better way than with a delicious Pratt organic coffee? Starting with just $1 all day, every day now until December 31st. You gotta try breakfast at A&W. at participating A&W locations in Ontario. New from Nespresso.

Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function, and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract.

Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Nespresso.com. Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account.

Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest. Conditions apply. Visit scotiabank.com slash h-I-SA to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Can I just say something about the Chris Paul number thing? this numbers are very important to players okay it's kind of like starting like for starting for an NBA player is very very important I've never 100% understood it because ultimately to me I'd rather

be on the court at the end of the game than on the front of the game but after 20 something years around the league I understand that starting is a very important thing that status is very important and so when you mess with starting you have got to be very very important you have got to be very very careful about how you respect a player, even if the right decision is to not start the player. The same thing with numbers. Chris Paul's identity is number three. CP3. Okay. And even if you had a bad end to last season, and even if Chris Paul didn't maybe operate in the way he said he was going to, whatever, and even if you weren't planning and retiring his number this year and you were going to make him wait a while, you can't give out his number this year.

And you can't give it to Bradley Beal. No offense to Bradley Beal. No disrespect to Bradley Beal, but like he wore zero last year and contributed zero. It's not like he's got any kind of. Yeah, well, look, if like if they had drafted Cooper Flagg. And Cooper Flagg said, the only way that I can go forward is to have number three on this team. You know, that's a problem for, you know, to deal with. But like, you're like, look, I mean, if it's that important to him, let's call CP3 up and talk about it.

With all due respect, you can't be given it to Bradley Beale the next year. And this is a franchise. They don't have a single number in the rafters. And I just mentioned the two guys who you can make a case for. CP3s jersey should absolutely be in the Raptors. I don't know if that's ever going to happen. At best, it's like a KG in Minnesota type of thing where I don't know if it's happening under this administration. Nobody's wearing 21 for the Timberwolves.

Nobody during the whole time that they were in a in a battle and everything like that, nobody was having 21. And it's just an own goal, really. I mean, think about it like this. And this is far back. Grant Hills Jersey is not retired in Detroit. Nobody has worn number 33 since the year 2000. It's 25 years later. Like it's a signal of general respect.

right i remember chancy billips got traded from detroit for alan iverson what number did allan ivorson get he got chonsie billips's number like these and it took chancy a long time to get over that stuff i think what we're saying is well chansea was angry about the trade even though he was going home to dendr but yeah it was a lot right but the general thing is this is a people business and somehow the clippers have managed to get the people's stuff wrong at every single turn of this. Even if it's in the name of appeasing Kauai Leonard, you're trying to do, you know what I mean? You're still doing it wrong. I don't love that we've talked about Kauai for an hour here because I feel like our listeners

don't want to. But like, this is a thing, like no matter what you think about Blake Griffin, okay, and no matter what you think about Chris Paul, how can you see, look at the way they, did they, what did they ever do to the clippers organization. Okay, Blake had some injuries. Okay, Blake used leverage to try to get a better, a better contract. You know, like... I mean, you can argue that Chris Paul did force a trade on his way out, but that was after... That trade helped them. That was after his arrival gave them the only extended stretch of relevance. Did anybody think Chris Paul didn't give his all for the Clippers for every time he was in uniform? And even last year, you don't sign Chris Paul and think he's going to be some shrinking

Violet at the end of the bench. It's like Wendy having me on this podcast and telling me I'm not allowed to make jokes. Of course Chris Paul is going to be chiming. And you've seen my movies? Like that's, I'm sorry. And we know Chris Paul, especially at the end, you know, older players at the end of their career

can be a little bit on the insufferable side when they're no longer the player that they used to be. But that's baked into the equation when you bring a Chris Paul back. In his defense, he was a little bit on the insufferable side when he was in his prime. Listen, I really want to like the Clippers. I really want to for so many different reasons.

They've got great toilets and a bunch of them. They make it hard. I mean, they, I don't know, man. I'm going to be going to a bunch of Clippers games this year. So I'm going to see. Where do you think our seat will be? Wendy, would you go to a concert at Intuit Dome this year? I've never been to a concert, into a Dome.

I have been to a concert at the forum, which Mr. Balmerones. We're neighbors with the Clippers now. That's the thing. The Clippers, now, you know, ESPN has moved at studios in L.A. from downtown L.A. next to Staples Center, I mean, crypto, to next, you know, a mile away from into it. Like, the Clippers are now, we're now, we now live in the Clippers neighborhood. Yeah. And listen, speaking of toilets, it must be an Englewood thing.

Because this NFL Network Studios, like, they've got these, it's the most modern toilet I've ever seen. It's like, there's heating. I didn't actually sit on it because it wasn't necessary. And honestly, I looked at it and I was intimidated. Like, this was a piece of machinery. I don't know if I want, like, I don't want to have to figure out tech in those, that kind of situation. How about Perk? Is Perk going to enjoy the new toilets?

These toilets look like they're built to handle a man like Perk. How did we get here? All right. Before we go, and I do apologize both for wearing this hat. And for talking so long. I respect you wearing this hat. I don't make a lot of bets, but I do pay them off. Okay.

So. I like bond temps. The Adam Silver has a few things to deal with, you know, over these, this MBA owners meetings. He'll talk. You know, first off, we've got this Lakers sale. We want to hear what the league has to say about that. about Mark Walter flipping it, about Mark Walter potentially having these financial problems. By the way, it was reported over the weekend, or at least at the end of last week,

that Mark Walter was selling his like 13% stake in Chelsea Football Club in London. You're selling these things for a reason, you know. We obviously have expansion on the books. And I believe expansion will move forward. So the one thing you have to realize on expansion is they've not actually said they're going to expand. I know that everybody is making assumptions and they've had their bankers take bids and everything like, but they haven't actually said we're for sure going to expand. And they haven't said we're for sure going to expand to Vegas and Seattle.

And they haven't said what they're going to expand to Vegas and Seattle at the same time. Having said that, I expect them to expand to Vegas. in Seattle at the same time. I mean, don't you have to, if you're going to expand, don't you have to do it at the same time with two franchises? No, you don't. You're going to have lopsided conferences? The NBA played with 29 teams for years.

Now, it wasn't an ideal situation, but the NBA played with 29 teams for years. So they could play with 31 teams. And again, I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. I am just saying to you that they have to go through a process. I talked to an owner recently who told me that they are budgeting getting between $500 and $600 million in expansion fees, which means they believe that the two teams will generate between $15 and $18 billion in sale.

And it sounded to me like that owner was going to be voting for expansion if he was already kind of... Especially accounting his money. early in a TV deal, right? So you're not you're not slicing up the shares of the TV deal until, what is it, or nine or ten years left on this one? Yeah, that can be negotiated different ways. But yeah, like I was talking to his owner and he was pretty much, he was talking about

their team's spending and their cap position. And he's like, he's like, well, we've got this five or six hundred million dollar, you know, windfall coming on the expansion. I go, whoa, whoa, stop, wind that back. Talk to me more about how you're budgeting that. because, and you know, I mean, obviously they don't have the money yet, but it sure sounds like he's expecting to get it. But I think we'll see something like that.

From what I understand, the bids for the Las Vegas team were all over $8 billion. They got multiple bids over $8 billion. And so that means it's going to go higher than that. How do we feel about expansion, Wendy? I'm not really super for it. why not this puts me in a weird spot here's why when i was 17 years old the cleveland browns i was 17 years old living in akron ohio the pleveland browns relocated to baltimore they have since won multiple super bowls that franchise has won multiple super bowls and the browns have been horrendous

and it was devastating i was 17 years old completely devastated i went to the second to last home game it was a devastating devastating devastating thing now they They got a team back. It was actually a pretty good job by their politicians to secure a team back. But now they're building a team at the airport. Now they're building a stadium at the airport, which is a whole other topic that gets me fired up. But I've seen some of the books of the NBA teams, and I'm not sure that there's 30 healthy teams. Okay.

And again, my answer is that. We're living in a world where there's not 30 healthy financial teams, and we're seeing every couple of years the NBA have. some funny money coming around too. Well, forget about even that. But the unhealthy teams, if they were put up for sale, would still, their ownership would get a massive profit. Yes, but my point is some of these teams are barely scraping by on their operating because they're losing so much money.

And we're seeing the NBA have to put in tanking rules every couple of years because you've got teams who realize they don't want to be in the middle. And so you add teams, you're continuing to prop up teams that are not financially healthy and you're creating a bigger middle that nobody wants to be in. The question I have is, is it realistic to expect all 30 or 31 or 32 teams to all be financially healthy? Is that a realistic expectation? No, otherwise they wouldn't have revenue sharing.

Like, you have to, you know, at some point you have to make a decision, do you want a 10-team league where everybody's filthy rich or do you want a 30 or 32? team league where there's teams in Milwaukee and Cleveland and Minneapolis and Oklahoma City. The answer is they want the latter. They want to have those teams. That's why they have revenue sharing.

But I'm just saying this. Like, teams don't operate the way they used to in terms of fewer and fewer teams are happy with mediocrity. You know, there there were, you know, like Herb Simon, the old school owner of the Indiana Pacers,

he was this big believer in, I would much rather have a 45 or 42 win season where I went to the arena every home game and knew my team was fighting, even if we finished eighth, then I would want a tank. And so that's why between the late 80s and the 2020s, they never had like a high lottery pick because he just didn't believe in it. That's the rare now. Now, private equity guys buy teams and they have analysis that shows that that's crazy. And they are like, if we're not going to win, we're going to tank. But honestly, to me, it's not even about private equity guys. It's about people in front offices. Which has become more scientific. The entire, yeah, like, so for example, last week, Vince, I was visiting London and I spent some time at Fulham.

Fulham is this small London club. It's worth a billion pounds. They were telling me that they believe that they have 18,000 fans that live in London, 18,000. That's what they believe their fan base is. 15 to 18,000 people. Their worldwide fan base is huge. And they sell out every game. It's hard to get tickets and whatever because people travel in and everything like that.

But they're a club that operates in a suburb of London that has 15 or 18, 18,000 fans. And their goal every year is to not get relegated. If they finish 7th or 11th, it's a great season. They're really happy. And they have other competitions that, okay, they're not going to win the Premier League. They can potentially win this league cup, or they can compete in a European competition. And they can be in 14th place in the English league, but they can be in the semifinals of the league cup and, you know, really engage your and try to win a trophy. The NBA in American sports doesn't operate like that.

And Adam Silver knows that's a problem, which is why he's trying to create the NBA Cup for teams to play for, which is why that they're trying to create a European division and maybe they could commingle days. Because if you keep creating teams and they only have to play for one thing, you're going to get the polarization of it. And they're putting in all these rules to try to keep the teams legislated from being on the polar ends because, nobody is satisfied with a 38-win season where they developed their young guys and they had

some big wins. Nobody wants that. They want to be in the finals or winning the lottery. That's what the two things that they want. And just adding more teams to that, when you have teams that are not healthy and not able to financially compete, I think is difficult. Now, if Adam Silver was on this podcast, he may say, just you wait because we're going to make a deal in the next couple of years with Amazon or Netflix or Apple, and we're going to have all of our local TV on. So you don't have to buy a package. You can just buy it straight from YouTube TV or whatever.

Or ESPN Plus, I'm not saying, or ESPN Unlimited, whatever venue. But I'm just saying if you're asking me whether I favor expansion, no, I'm not somebody out there saying, it doesn't mean I don't want a team in Vegas and Seattle. It doesn't mean I want to take a team away from a city that's struggling. I want a team in Seattle.

I want to take a lot of places. I think it comes down to this. Adam Silver, since Adam Silver has taken over, I think the number is 14, not counting expansion. 14 teams have changed hands since Adam Silver has taken over. If you go back to the 2011 CBA, I think the number is like 18. That's more than half the league.

A little less than half the league since Adam has taken over a little more than that groundbreaking CBA that went from 57% going to the players to now basically being around 50-50. So the money that's been invested by these franchises or by these buyers into the league, they want the return on their investment as far as in the way of winning compared to what the old school owner, the Herb Simons, the Bill Davidsons, the Jerry Reinsdorf, the real estate guys. The stakes were lower than the now the stakes are so much. much higher. And because Adam Silver has said, in essence, and I'm projecting here, but I think this is

what he's told guys, not only would you have a chance to win, but you're going to make money doing it. That's what these guys are holding Adam Silver's feet to and they're holding their executives to because they were coming into a league expecting to win when everybody doesn't win and making money when everybody doesn't make money. Like, that's the weird thing, the weird space that wins. So that's why I was curious, Wendy, if you felt like expansion was a good thing. Like, I like more jobs for players, more jobs for media, more places to go, all of that stuff. I just wonder if growing by two teams as opposed to maybe one team now and one team in a couple of years is the more prudent thing for this league to be doing right now. And at a certain point, Wendy, you touched on it, but the local TV thing to me is one of the NBA's most important issues.

And they're not alone in that. That's the same with baseball. It's the same with hockey. The NFL is an exception because there's not a local TV aspect to that. But when you talk about teams finances, the crumbling of the regional sports networks has really hit a lot of teams hard there. And then honestly, just from a pure fan perspective, it should not be hard to watch your local team. It should not be difficult. I should not have to jump through hoops.

I should not have to, okay, I'm getting what this. streaming network or that and if i just if i'm a big enough fan to buy league pass i shouldn't be blacked out from watching my favorite team i'm sorry it's not that complicated okay so on the vagus thing um there's multiple bidders but the the the one i would keep an eye on is the uh nancy Walton Lorry. Her and her husband are believed to be one of the bidders for Las Vegas. Not believed to be, they are one of the bidders for Las Vegas. And whenever you have a Walton bidding, you know, I think it was about four years ago.

The Broncos were for sale. There was a whole bunch of bidders. You know, NFL teams don't come for sale often. There was some big-time bidders, by the way. Matt Ishpia was bidding. Josh Harris, owner of the 76ers, was bidding. He ended up not getting them and he bought the Redskins. Matt Isbigh, I didn't get him and he bought the sons.

And the folks at Clear Lake Capital were bidding. Clear Lake Capital didn't get them. They bought Chelsea football. As soon as Rob Walton, who's the son of Sam Walton, decided he wanted a team, guess who got the team, the Walton family. The Walton family has been getting more and more interested in pro sports ownership. Obviously, they bought the, Rob Walton bought the Broncos a couple of years ago.

I don't know if you even know this, if you remember this, Vince, but Lucas Walton and his wife, who's the grandson of Sam Walton, bought, I believe, 10% of the Chicago Bulls. And so Nancy Walton-Lory is bidding for the Vegas team. And most people believe that she and her husband and their group are the favorites. Nancy Walton's sister, Anne Walton, married a gentleman by the name of Stan Cronkey.

So Nancy Walton's brother-in-law is Stan Cronkey, who owns the Denver Nuggets, Los Angeles Frams, Arsenal Football Club, and most recently the Anaheim Angels, Colorado Avalanchee can go on and on. So the Walton family, not only are they one of the richest families in the world, But they have, there's a, you know, there's a, her sister is a, is in the NBA family. Her nephew is in the NBA family. You know, it's being handicapped sort of that the Walton's, you know, her name is Nancy Walton Lori, your husband, Bill Lorry. You know, I don't even know he might even end up being the governor if they win. But there's Walton money potentially bidding for Vegas. And so you're asking me.

Vince, if I like the idea of expansion or not, it doesn't matter. The Walton's are bidding on expansion. And there's money in Seattle as well, including from, I believe, Melinda Gates, the ex-wife of Bill Gates. She's joined one of the ownership groups. There's too much money that wants to come into the league for it not to happen. It's going to happen. And that gets back to your concern, Wendy, you're concerned. concern is there's, you know, teams that aren't financially healthy. Well, a $600 million check

would probably aid their financial health. In the short term, in the short term. What I think on this doesn't matter, you know, and I've talked with owners about this, and they've explained, they've gone through their explanation to me and everything. I've listened to it and from the billion, when I'm being told by a billionaire that something makes financial sense, am I going to tell the billionaire he's wrong? You know, no, I'm not going to tell the self-made billionaire that he's wrong about his viewpoint, which is the same thing I got told. I did a podcast last week about NBA Europe, which I think you'll also be on the agenda that comes out. And I've had some of these billionaires, these self-made billionaires, explain to me

why they think this is a good idea. And I'm not in position to tell them they think that they're wrong. But I'm not sure it's good for the basketball aspect of European basketball. I'm not so sure that having 32 teams is good for the overall health of the league on a night-to-night basis. But I'm not like saying it's the worst thing in the world and pounding it. But we'll see Adam Silver, I think we'll have something to say updating that process. I think it will move forward. We'll see that. But more than anything, as we wrap up here, more than anything,

I want to hear the tone that he has when discussing the Balmer situation. And whether it's a tone of anger, whether it's a tone of comeuppance, whether it's a tone of where he's, you know, like, you know, shaming them or, you know, you know, lecturing them. A somber tone. Or if it's a tone of moving forward. Boom. That's the tone. I don't think Adam has the, and I like Adam a lot, but Adam doesn't have the emperor David Stern sort of. He don't get that tool in his tool.

box. The I'm disappointed in you, tone. Yeah, yeah. Like, you mess with the wrong guy type of thing. That ain't really the case here. And, you know, Adam took that tone with Donald Sterling. We have not seen that Adam Silver since then. Granted, a million reasons why and everything else. But I think he saves that tone for the most extreme of cases. Does this qualify or does this turn into a, they've accepted their punishment? Steve Bormer's been a great ally to. the NBA. We look forward to having him back in the fold in a year. I have other questions I want to ask Adam Silver tomorrow because I'll be in attendance for the board of governors meeting. If you ever go back and watch that Adam Silver Press conference, it's important to reveal

with the Adam Silver Press Conference with Donald Sterling. Adam Silver became, he had started doing press conferences with David Stern like they eased him in, but he had become the commissioner in February. This was going down in like April or May of 2012. We're very familiar with how Adam Silver handles public speaking now because we've now heard him do it 100 times. If you go back and watch that press conference, which I actually did last week when I was writing about this, he's nervous, Vince. For life. That was the only thing that, yeah. That statement, he was strong.

But everything leading up to his trem-he, he was a little trembling. Yes, it's not the, you know, Adam Silver is always composed. like David Stern would get he would pound the, first off, David Stern would always sit. Adam Silver is a tall man. He's 6, 3, 6, 4. He stands. But David Stern would always sit. And so there was always a table. And David Stern was not afraid to pound the fist on the table. I was at the, I just happened to be in New York. The calves were playing in New York the two or three days after the brawl. He had the press conference at Madison Square Garden. I wasn't like I was sent to it. I just sort of tiptoed in there with all the world's media.

at the garden. And he was furious about that. He was known for like, he wouldn't like scream, but his face would get red and he would say stuff. Adam is generally even toned, even when he's,

quote unquote, angry and I'm expecting an even tone. But if you go back and watch that, Vince, he was nervous. He knew that that was a big moment. For life. That was the thing.

It was like the sound lot. Maybe I'm taking it too far back. when they were telling the old story and it was like, forever. That's what Adam sounded like. Adam sounded like he had found his voice. I am banning Donald Sterling. For life, I was like, oh, okay, this is, it was a watershed moment for him.

And I don't know if he's going to go back to that place again. Like I said, David Stern was a different animal. That's why I call Davis Thurn the emperor. Adam Silver is not the emperor. Well, Vince, and this podcast has gone on way too long. But Vince, you were in Vegas at the last Adam Silver Board of Governors meeting. This was when Wendy was in a lazy boy. Yeah, I didn't even say hello to you.

I was in the back of the room. I didn't even say hi. I was just like, yeah, I'll talk to him later. Anyway, at that press conference, Vince, that's when Adam Silver said that he was getting regular updates on the investigation. But he still, I wrote the other day that it still sounded like he was doing the Judge Judy meme with the clock. He didn't sound like somebody who was sitting on a bombshell report.

And I'm not, I'm just saying that's my interpretation. I'm not saying I know what he knows. I'm just saying it didn't sound like somebody who knew that there was going to be this wrecking ball came through. It sounded like somebody who's like, okay, let's wrap this up. You say Adam has a poker, more of a poker face. I don't know what to read that. I don't know what to read that.

They said in the report that late information had come in. So I, you know, I don't know. So I will be interested to hear how Adam's tone is. And if you're going to ask a question on my behalf, which you should definitely do, when did he know that this, you know, that this was going to be a, when did he have the information that he was going to, you know, deal this type of. of blow. Like, did he know back in the finals when he was like, this has got to get

wrapped up? Because I, he didn't come off as somebody who was, who had the hammer just below the table. He didn't tip his hand. Like, I have my own question. But I can do one of those. I can do a Tim Bontems. Remember during the finals? It was in Boston

where Bontems asked Adam like three questions. It was like a triple lutz of questions. Multi-part question, A? Right. Right. And of course, I followed Adam and I said, hey, Adam, Adam, I only got one question for you. And Bon Tim's face went completely red. You know, that was Bon Tim's. But yeah, I can do a and or to Adam tomorrow and see what he says. You shouldn't do that. That's what we call in the business a double-barreled question because this is for all, because only journalism students are listening this far into a podcast in mid-September. Don't ask two questions. I can't do a shameless plug, Wendy. Of course you can do a shameless plug.

Hold on. Wendy's giving journalism advice. But don't ask two questions because the subject will almost always take the easier question. Correct. Like if you say, did you murder your wife? Wow. That's what we're going? Or did you, were you, you know, just going to the airport?

Which question is he going to take the easier? I was just going to the airport. airport. Like, what are you talking about? I was flying in Chicago. Bad example. That was a terrible example. I've got rules that I want to become part of the NBA regulations. And this is regarding press conference questions. And discounts, post-game, pre-game availability, all that stuff.

And even scrumps. Number one, during a press conference, there should be a 24-second shot clock on the table. And if the buzzer goes off, you pass the mic, you're done. You don't get your question in. No questions should take longer than 24 seconds. In, and my advice to make sure that doesn't happen, you get one sentence that can have a period. After that, your next sentence has to have a question mark on it. I like it.

Have you seen the way that ChatGT writes things? They don't write things in sentences anymore. They do the- The bullet points. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't use Chat-G-G-T. How I would never know what that?

No, there are people, and I won't say who, because there are some prominent people. Whenever I see their tweets, I'm like, that sounds like a bot. Like, you think you're being very smart in how you're framing stuff. But you sound like a damn bot. I won't say who it is, but man, I wish I could confront this person. All right. We're wrapping this up. Sorry, sorry.

We're wrapping this up. Jackson, this edit's going to be a challenge for you and your cohorts. Can I do a shameless plug? Yes. You always do. All right, starting on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Oh, I know about this. Yes, exactly.

Start on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Go to YouTube for a short vignettes of Get Up. I will be hosting alongside some days Brian Winhorse, my buddy Bobby Marks, maybe Tim McMahon. It starts tomorrow. I think Tim McMahon is going to be the first guest. We're just going to fill the NBA Jones, you know, while the football season is happening.

So feel free to go to YouTube and everything else to show up in your algorithm. Tune in. Is it actually called vignettes? I just called it vignettes. Not like Vinets like to name it after me. No, no, no, no. Viniettes.

Well, they like to name things. They like to do that kind of stuff on GitHub, so I could see that happen. They do. I was not giving, I'm not giving Himbo an idea. Vignettes. All right. Well, we look forward to joining you.

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for is, you know, one of the reasons I like football season is that shows like Get Up and first take leave me alone. It's great. Now I got, now I got to get dressed up. Oh, here's some first world problems.

Poor Wendy. It's so in demand on TV. I look forward to being a vignette. Yeah. Goodwill and the vignettes. Thank you to Tucker and Mark and the rest of our producers, including Jackson,

who is not going to talk about Syracuse's performance over the weekend. And thank you for very, very much for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective and especially in the dog days of summer here. We will talk to you later this week where we may have some news.

Wendy, tip of the cap to you? I'm taking it off. The podcast is over. And Adios amigos, go blue.