Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Best Spot For Trae Young + Knicks & Thunder Struggles

Episode Date: January 7, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to break down Trae Young and the Hawks working together on a potential trade including the best landing spot at the moment. Then the guys talk about the recent struggles for New York & Oklahoma City including Knicks owner Jim Dolan’s comments on the future goals for the team. Finally, some interesting comments form KD after a clutch shot and a major conclusion from the latest round of All-Star voting results. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday evening on the East Coast, late afternoon, here on the West Coast. East Coast is where Tim Bontemps is.

Hello, everybody. West Coast is where Band McMahon is. Howdy partners? I'm going to go out to dinner with McMahon tonight, Bon Tempts. And, you know, when you go out to dinner with McMahon, you have to find a place that, you know, has fish. because not only does Mr. Texan never owned a pair of cowboy boots, he also doesn't eat red meat. I do own one pair of cowboy boots.

That's false information. I do own a single pair. Might be one of those situations. Bond's Hemp's where, whoops, did I forget my wallet? Gee whiz. I can afford it, so I would do that if I were you. I might have those gator arms. All right.

Well, I just want to point something out today as we were recording this is January 6th. There are four weeks, more than four weeks, actually. 30 days to the trade deadline. There's a long time between now and the trade deadline. I think that might is that is important to realize. I know not everybody, but a lot of people love the trade deadline. A lot of people love the trade machine. And it is obviously something that is on the sports calendar every year.

And certainly last year we had a rockam-sockham trade deadline week with Luca getting traded. But just keep in mind as we go. through the trade situations, there is one month left until that deadline. And with that said, we did have some movement earlier this week when Shams Sharania and others reported on Trey Young's interest in, you know, expediting his departure from the Atlanta Hawks. We talked a couple of weeks ago about how things were not looking like they could be a long-term partnership there. And now I'm wondering, Bontemps, this thigh contusion that he's got, how legitimate and severe that injury is. And if we're going to see Trey Young play for a while until this gets resolved one way or another,

what Shams reported was his agents at CAA are out there calling. I assume that they have the blessing of the team. I shouldn't have to- Well, what Shams reported was they're working with the team to find a trade. Right. Right. But from what I understand, the agents are calling other teams and saying, well, yeah, that's what that's part of what working with the team is. I understand, but it's one thing to work with the team and like, you know, let us know we'll talk about.

It's another thing when the agent's leading the calls. Well, and honestly, I think it's probably a situation where it's like, hey, please help us. We're trying to move your guy. I mean, this isn't any different than the Anthony Davis situation. It's not different than almost any situation involving a significant player getting traded where in a situation like this, representation is going to be involved. And it doesn't mean the hawks aren't making calls. It just means that they're working with Trey to find a resolution to this that ends up with Trey not playing for the Atlanta Hawks.

Because at the end of the day, it's out of thought contusion. It's a quad contusion. And I can tell you from when they were here on, well, it's just because that's what they're listing it as. But what I was going to say was when they were here, when they were here at Massachusetts Square Garden on Friday, I watched Trey Young workout before the game. He looked like he was moving around pretty good. I don't, it did not seem to me at the time like this was an injury that should keep him up for a long time. It seemed like a pretty classic situation of let's find a resolution to this thing and make it as clean as possible for everybody.

And the question is, can the Hawks find a resolution? And what will that look like? That's what we'll wait to find out. Now, I just want to say I don't get the sense I did just see the Hawks recently in OKC. I don't get the sense this is some kind of like acrimonious type of thing. Like this isn't Trey's quitting on the Hawks. Like the Hawks had that month plus span without Trey and they feel like they are a better team without Trey. You know, Trey has been a multiple time All-Star.

You know, he's still a guy, he's not having a good year this year, but still capable of giving you 25 points and 10 assist on a regular basis and feels like, okay, get me somewhere where they do want to give me the ball and let me run the show. I don't think this is necessarily a nasty divorce, but it's certainly it's mutual at this point. And it's been, like, we've known this was coming since they didn't attempt to give them an extension this summer. That's right. And so has his agents, and these calls were not the first time his agents got on the phone with opposing teams. Yeah, actions over words is what we say on the pod for a reason.

And the action this summer of not giving the extension signaled where the Hawks were with Tray Young. And when you go into the season, as you said, Big Man, the Hawks are two and eight in the 10 games Trey Young has played. And they're 14 points worse per 100 on defense when he plays. Now, they're really one and eight, I would say, in those games because the second game they won was in Brooklyn here when he hurt his knee and he played seven minutes. So in nine games he finished, they're one and eight with them,

and they're, I think, 16 and 13 in the other games or 16 and 12 or whatever. It's something, I think it's 16 and 13. So that's why this has gotten to this point, the combination of the struggles on the court, and the fact that they weren't ready to commit to him long term. And when they have a roster that's built around all these long athletic guys, it stands to reason that this was either going to work with Trey and they were going to play well this year,

And then, all right, maybe you find some bridge deal where you keep them around for a while, or it wasn't going to work and you would look at it and say, this isn't a partnership that makes sense for the long term. Obviously, the latter path has happened. And now we will see if they can find a deal when, as we've talked about ad nauseum for months, there's not a lot of teams that need point cards. And it's hard to make a deal for a player making in the mid-40s or higher. And that are two things that both apply to Trey Young,

which is why this is a complicated deal. deal to figure out. So Mark Stein over on his substack reported that the Wizards were one of the teams or a team that's having discussions about it. I would just say that, you know, the Wizards are a team that in the past has done deals taking on veteran players with money left on their contracts if they can get something out of it. You know, a classic comparison that you could make here, even though Jordan Poole is not the same type of player necessarily the Trey Young is. If you go back and look a couple of years ago when the Wizards, now they were sort of more at the beginning of that rebuild.

They're still kind of at the beginning, which is part of the challenge there. Well, there's still the starting line. Right. Well, they're still, you know, however metaphor you want to say, they're not out of the batters box. Maybe they're halfway to first, whatever. So in that deal, if you remember, they sent Chris Paul out and they took Jordan Poole in, but really what they were doing is they were taking on the Poole contract.

And in that deal, now Poole had four years left, I think, Pontemps. So we're talking about a lot of money. It just started as extension. Yeah, the extension was just about to kick in. Yeah. So in that deal, they got a second round pick and a protected first, neither of which have conveyed from the Warriors yet. And actually, Ryan Rollins, who ended up not staying in Washington long,

but that would have been interesting if they had kept him because he's turning in quite a player for the bucks. That's another story for another day. You know, even like taking on Marcus Smart's contract, taking on Chris Middleton's contract, this is a, you know, when you hear that the Wizards may have interest in Tray Young and doing a deal, it's not an unreasonable thing because this is something that Will Dawkins and Michael Winger have done since they've run the Wizards, with the caveat that they can get something out of it. And although they did sort of the inverse deal when they moved Jordan Poole for C.J. McCollum over the summer because they wanted out of Jordan Poole's contract like the four years did a couple years before.

That was a great deal. That gave them this chip in C.J. McCollum that they can use now in a trade, if it's not this one, you know, a trade of some significance. And here's the thing. You mentioned they're like, dude, they've got like they've got to get out of the batters box. You know, next year is time for them to start showing tangible progress in the standings or, you know, with the win-loss record. And, you know, Trey's obviously a flawed player, but you're going to have a competent offense if Trey Young's are starting point guard. They do also have Travis Schlingk in a high-ranking front office position. He is the former Hocs GM who made the trade for Trey Young, who went to the conference finals with Trey Young. And the price for tray, if they can get incentivized to do it, if they can get a pick along with them, great.

But even if they don't, the price for trays, so they're not giving up assets that they value for the future to get a guy like this in the building if this is the deal that ends up happening. Yeah, I mean, you're talking about a team that's got $80 million currently in space next summer. They don't need $80 million in space. They have two giant expiring contracts in both C.G. McCollum

and Chris Middleton that don't have a ton of value in the current league. There's not a ton of big contracts out there that are trying to be moved. Typically, the ones that are trying to be moved are guys like Tray Young and Anthony Davis and these guys that are star players. It's not like teams are trying to. There's not a lot of Jordan Pools like the guy they just got out of that are sitting out there. And like you said, McMahon, this is a Wizards team that has a bunch of of interesting young players. They have not yet gotten a surefire guy to build the thing around,

but they have Trey Johnson who they drafted six this year. They have Kishan George who they drafted a couple years ago. They have Alex Sarr, who's an interesting big, who's gotten a lot better this year. What they don't have is a got to get them the ball. And if you bring in Trey Young and you have him as your point guard, he's going to get those guys to ball. Like you said, they're going to have a good offense. And you can at least start to build some foundation of something moving forward even if you're not going to extend Trey or have him for the long term it's not like he walks into Washington and displaces like if they drafted Jeremiah fears say right wouldn't have made sense to trade for Trey young because you have Jeremiah fears he's going to be on the ball you don't want to

move him off the ball for Trey young so I think from a fit standpoint it makes sense and I would assume you know as Brian laid out and as you just said you know the devil in the details here will be what sort of compensation, if there is any, that comes out of this for the Wizards. But I also don't think it's the worst thing for Washington to walk out of the trade deadline with a $49 million expiring contract going into next summer in Tray Young that they can either try to flip for other stuff or just have as a guy that they can start to, you know, move some of these other pieces around. Go forward. You may be saying to yourself, why are these guys talking about how the Hawks would have to put. in draft assets in a deal where they're trading a multi-time All-Star who's still in his prime for C.J. McCollum, who's, you know, in the back nine of his career, why, you know, you may be

saying yourself, well, why would it come down to that? Why would you be, why would you be comparing Trey Young to a guy like Jordan Poole who had a contract that no one's really wanted? And the answer is that, you know, Trey Young has, as Bontem's just referred to, he's got this $49 million player option for next year. And yes, it's possible he could turn that option down and either become an outright free agent or negotiate a new contract with whatever team he's on. But that's $50 million is, you know, it's 30% of the cap. And this is what we talked about a couple of podcasts ago. 30% of the cap for a player like Trey in the apron era is not a palatable number. And so it's this gray area. It's this nuance. It's not that Tray's a bad player,

but his contract relative to his production, relative to how it impacts team's aprons, it's not all aligned. And so his contract is viewed as an overpay right now. And so if you're the wizards, you have C.J. McCollum, whose contract is probably an overpay as well. But it comes off the books this year. And so to take on that extra $50 million beyond this year is what, you know, and get them off the books of the of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the Hawks in addition to, frankly, getting them off the roster where they've been a more productive team without them, that's going to cost something. And that's what I think a negotiation between the Wizards and the Hawks would come down to is what would the Hawks, if it does come down. I mean,

I'm not even saying this is going to happen. But if it does come down. But if it does come down, my belief isn't the McCollum for Trey deal. My belief is – And McCollum plus to make the salary work, but yeah. You're right. You would need another contract? It's what would Atlanta be willing to pay to offload that $50 million and what would Washington's price level be to take on that $50 million?

And by the way, take on the $50 million and a player who wants to get paid. But let me just also point out, though, one, like, if the Hawks could have traded trade for value, they would have already have done it a while back. They traded DeJante Murray and not trade because the offers were for Dejante Murray and not trade. It's true. It's not even production, you know, pay for production. It's impact because the production is there. The guy puts up massive numbers, but the impact on winning is the issue. Now, from a pure business perspective, though, I think you can make a strong case.

This makes sense for Washington. They don't have people at their games. Trey is a big name who plays an entertaining style, would at least create some level of buzz and interest for a franchise that right now needs butts in the seats. There is a business benefit if the Wizards pull the trigger on this deal. No question. There's a business benefit. Again, it doesn't cost them anything next year because they have so much cap space and they have a roster full of guys on first round picks.

They don't have five roster spots to go out and fill, right? Having a giant expiring again next summer. You're not going to go sign Austin Reeves. Like, you don't go sign a guy for $40 million when you're in a position that they're in. No, it's a trade that makes sense on a lot of levels for Washington. It obviously makes sense for the Hawks to get out of the money. And the other thing you didn't mention, Brian, and what you laid out, which is totally right, that we do, Trey is the epitome of this new class of guys who are max players that in going forward, I don't think we'll be getting max contracts. And we're still working through those guys coming off those max contracts.

Zach Levine, I think Anthony Davis at this point applies for this. Trey applies for this. The other thing that is a fact, Zion Williamson, another one, John Morant, Lomlo Ball. all these different guys. The other thing that factors in here, though, is the two deepest positions in the league by a mile are point guard and center. If you're trying to trade a point guard or you're trying to trade a center, the first thing you have to do is identify the teams that need a point guard or need a center. And the list of teams that need one of those positions that doesn't have a solid or better player at it is pretty short. There's really only a

couple teams you could point to and say they really need a Trey young on their team or name the point guard. So if you start from a place of there's four to six teams that really could use a point guard and then you start to go, okay, can they take on a $50 million salary, what will their books look like next year, where are they at in the cycle of their team? All of those things make it to where it's difficult to trade any point guard right now for real value, let alone one that's in trade's position. And this is the kind of thing. It's what we've been talking about a lot.

It's what's going to complicate this trade deadline, and it's probably what's going to complicate the next couple of years as these contracts still come off the books for these guys, and teams are trying to figure out how to navigate them and where things are headed. That's also why if you're Washington, you can drive a bit of a hard bargain because you know that there's probably not a lot of trading in the market.

You can, though I do think, to McMahon's point, the Wizards have had zero buzz about their team. They're in the middle of another dreadful season. By design, like they're trying to get one of these studs, and if they get AJ DeBanzer, or Darren Peterson or Cameron Boozer, then they'll have their guy and they can start to build around him and go forward. The other thing is they have these $60 million in expirings on their books, and if they do just come off the books,

with the new rules, you have to spend the money. You can't just have $50 million in cap space anymore. So having $50 million of it parked in one player is a pretty efficient way to get to the salary floor. And they might not have another trade for either C.G. McCollum or Chris Middleton between now and the trade deadline. That's going to get them anything of use, let alone a guy in Trey who, for all the reasons we've talked about, would be a pretty nice fit for them in the short term. So, you know, I will say his agents, you know, these guys at CA are good at their job. and so part of this is they're wanting Trey

to be placed somewhere where there is a chance for an extension. There's a chance for a long term. Probably at this point, I'm going to say I'm confident they realize it's probably not at a max number or at a near max number,

but at a healthy number. And so Trey as a rental is a dicey proposition. Well, here's what I'd say to that. If you're, if you're, if you're, if you're,

if you're, Young right now. Okay. We, CAA is not, as you said, those guys know what they're doing. If you look around and there's not a ton of homes for Trey Young, what are your options? Okay, you can drive a hard bargain now and say, hey, we're only going to want to come to Washington if we get an extension. The Wizards just say, no, we're not going to do that. Okay. Then what are you going to do? Just not play for the next year and a half and then have no value and you become a free agent, or are you going to go to a team with a bunch of young players that in theory is going to want to run up and down that you could put up a bunch of numbers and at least,

even if they don't give you an extension, you're giving yourself the best opportunity coming off that deal to get a big contract from somebody. Well, this is the Chris Paul thing. This is like the same thing that happened. It's close. Chris Paul goes to the Thunder. We're in a full rebuild, you know.

Yeah. What did Tillman for T. to say, McMahon, the worst contract he'd ever see. He said, worst contract, I ever seen a business and sparts. And then he looks at me good. That's off the record. And I said,

that's already in the story. You know how many people you said that to? So he goes to the Thunder who were in a rebuild. That was like there actually we thought they were in a real build. It was right after they had, you know, they had, you know, traded Paul George and Russell Westbrook. Westbrook was the guy that they traded Chris Paul for, traded Chris Paul, got Chris Paul back in that deal. And Chris Paul, like, went there totally rehabbed his, not rehabbed, but like had a great year.

He restored his value. He rehabbed his value for sure. Went, ended up getting traded. for a first round pick to Phoenix and then got another nice contract. And went to the finals after that. And we're not necessarily comparing Chris Paul to Tray Young. However, like, that is the situation here that it's a very similar spot that Tray Young is in. And what Sam Presti did was he had very clear and direct communication with CP3 when he brought him in.

Hey, I know you didn't ask for this. I know you don't want to be here. Buy in for me. Let's have a great year. you know, let's restore your value, and then I'm going to work with you, right? And so who was one of the top decision makers in Sam's front office then? Will Dawkins, who's the general manager of the Wizards now. Right.

And so I'm not saying that the Wizards need to promise an extension, but I think they at least at the minimum have to have very clear and direct communication, set out expectations. And if I'm Trey Young, I at least want to go there and say, hey, listen, man, have an open mind at the minimum, give me a chance to prove that I can get these young guys going, because the Wizards are in a situation where it's starting to be like, well, it's not, this is the last year that being bad can be the plan. They've got to go. Like, you don't get forever as a front office. Can I just say that there's like four teams that are declaring that? Like, that's the working theory in Brooklyn. That's the working theory in Washington. That's the working theory in Utah. Well, and again,

And you get yourself some rope, I would say. And look, I think the, I'm not saying the Wizards guys are in any sort of jeopardy. They're not. But you get yourself some latitude if you get an All-Star for free. And at the end of the day, if there's no picks in this trade, and it's C.G. McCollum and whatever the sat, there's various salary fillers you could have to get to the number to get Tray Young there. If it's, hey, we get an All-Star point card for an expiring contract, we were probably just going to have a roll off our books. And that's it.

And it doesn't impact our money next year. that's a pretty easy win to sell. Now, doesn't mean Michael Winger and Will Dawkins aren't going to negotiate over compensation and maybe they both teams have complicated swaps. Maybe they swap those. Maybe the Wizards get a first. Maybe they get a bunch of seconds. Maybe they get a swap down the road.

Like, who knows what they get? Maybe they don't get anything. But the coming out of this with Trey Young for an expiring contract, I think would make Washington look pretty good and would give them some optionality next year. As we just talked about for 10 minutes, I think this is a deal that could happen. but I also will tell you it's January 6th. So don't expect either team to necessarily bend on their asks and their positions on it. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

In the annals of Hoop Collective jinxing, we had a glorious one where we talked about the Sixers all for Monday's podcast. You know, maybe they've turned the corner. they get the Nuggets missing seven of their top eight players? At least their top seven players, at least. On the second night of a back-to-back, on the seventh game of a road trip. Nuggets flat out punted the game. Yes.

Sad everybody. And they won't. I mean, I got to say, it may not be the biggest regular season upset of the last few years, but it's in the running. It actually wasn't the biggest of the night by the numbers because the Hornets were 50.

and a half point underdogs and beat the Thunder in OKC. We'll get to that a minute. But massive. Yes. You know who probably really enjoyed that game? Calvin Booth. Because it was Jalen Pickett. It was Ziegnazzi. It was all of his guys that led the Nuggets to Victor.

I guess Spencer Jones, Spencer Jones, his guy. Spencer Jones too. Yeah. It was like watching a real life version of when a video game decided you were going to lose. Like, and I'm not saying that as some, I'm not saying that as some kind of I'm not, I can't remember which version of NBA live that was, that was. Well, Madden, Madden would have that, the college football game.

Like, you just, sometimes if you play, you'd grow up playing these games. Sometimes the computer would just decide you're not going to win. That's right. You'd like miss wide open dunks and stuff. Like in the fourth quarter and overtime of this game, Tyrese just forgot how to dribble for most of it. They had the ball on the final play of regulation with the clock off. And Tyrese was dribbling on the wing and just lost the ball. Didn't get it stolen.

Didn't get it touched. just dribble it, lost it. It was the hookup to shanks. That's all right. It really was. And speaking of hoop collective jinxes, how about the Knicks that we were fetting a few days ago, you know, and they have now lost four in a row. By the way, the pistons without Tobias Harris, without Jalen Duren, with Kate Cunningham,

battling through an injury, go into Cleveland on Sunday. and just embarrassed the calves, quite frankly. Isaiah Stewart, he absolutely shoved Evan Mowbly around the entire afternoon. I do not know what J.B. Bickerstaff said to get his team ready to go, but you know games against the calves mean extra to J.B. Sure do. And let's just say that the Pistons, let's just say the calves did not improve their, their M.O. as a soft team with that performance.

Then they go play the Knicks on Monday. Again, second night of it back to back. Knicks rested. Knicks rested waiting for them in Detroit. And the Knicks had lost three in a row. So you're like, okay, it's a big game. It's, you know, the Knicks had been in second. We're right on the Pistons.

Had a tough West Coast trip, took some losses, took some injuries. The Knicks a week ago were like looking at the Pistons' heels. Not only did they slap the Knicks around, they knocked them all the way to third because the Celtics won again. And I got to say, you know, the one thing about the Knicks, their offense has been really good all year. Their defense in this four-game losing streak has been atrocious. And I'll tell you what, it's been a real, not that we needed to be reminded that Josh Hart is an important player, but Mike Brown flat-out came out and said after the game. Like, they essentially all the things that Josh is, you know, missing Josh Hart is costing them. But it's not just about Josh Hart.

So the Knicks have hit a tough patch here, Bont-Tims. Yeah, look, this has been an awful week for the Knicks. you go back to last Wednesday. They're in San Antonio. Victor Wemamama has the buckle in his knee and leaves the game. Knicks blow that game, lose it down the stretch. Justin Champany goes crazy, hits 36 points. 11-3.

11-3s. Spurs record. Yeah, playing great. Launching 175 headlines about Champany on New Year. There you go. That's true. It was a perfect setup. for that. And there's Julian, not Justin.

I mixed him up. Justin's on the Wizards who we just talked about. But he goes crazy. Nicks lose that game. They come home and they play the Hawks who had been really struggling. Carl Towns is a late scratch from that game. They get blown out by the Hawks. The next night they have the Sixers come in, home

game. Sixers blow them out. And then they go to Detroit, play the Pistons, as you said, down guys. And not only they lose, lose by 30, and it was not competitive. Like, they were just smacked in this game. And the irony of this is that it came a few hours after James Dolan decided to come out of hibernation from a media standpoint and have his first interview in two years, two calendar

years, and had this to say among several other things, we want to get to the finals and we should win the finals. So this is sports. Anything can happen in sports. But getting to the finals, we absolutely got to do. And winning the finals, we should win. This, which again goes back to what we talked about the other day with the Knicks, which is when they fired Tom Thibito last summer, which James Dolan talked about a lot in this interview, Craig Carton on the fan, the goal was very clearly laid out.

If you make the conference finals for the first time of 25 years, well, hold on a second. It wasn't clearly laid out. It was laid out by what the perception was. Well, but actions are the words. Yes, the action. There were no words from the Knicks. I understand it.

The Nix never give interviews. However, when they fired Tom Dibodeau after that series, it was undeniable what that meant. It meant that whoever got hired was only going to have an expectation of reaching the NBA finals. And by the way, Jim Dolan just came out and said it. So Mike Brown, Newsflash, you better make the finals. Well, you know what? I'd say, James, Jimbo, you had a chance to raise a banner. You never have had that chance before.

He talked about it. You might never have that after. He didn't talk about it. He said they're going to raise a banner. It's going to be for the championship. And I will say this. Now, you may disagree with his thought process on why he fired Tom Thibodeau, but he described what his thought process was. First off, obviously, he had a huge say in Tibbs getting fired.

Not that that was really surprising to anybody. Obviously, Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau go back 30 years and. And again, they just had made the conference finals for the first time in 25 years. Of course. So, and, you know, look, Dolan even made some reasonable points. Again, you can disagree with that decision. But he was like, listen, it's very important to us to have development. You have to develop players, which in the apron era is true.

Like that, I mean, that's true. And this was a sore point all season. There was discussion around here. Yes. Well, it was not a secret around these parts that the Knicks wanted their young players to play more. They wanted to have a deeper bench. They wanted to have all these things. And Tom Thibito didn't do that as much as they wanted.

And it's not a coincidence that when they fired Tom, they replaced him with Mike Brown. And what is Mike Brown done? He's done the Steve Kerr thing. He's playing Kevin McCuller in these last couple of games. He's played Mo Diawarro, who was a second round pick. Tyler Colick has developed into a rotation piece for them. Like, he's playing virtually everybody on the roster on a regular basis. Ariel Huckporti has had some real nice games.

He had a great game against Atlanta. That was one of the few bright spots in that game. But it's not a coincidence that Mike Brown has come in. And the mandate was develop players and play younger players and play more players than Tom did. And that's, and by the way, like, I think it would have, you know, behooved the NICs to say that. Yeah. You know, you don't, you know, like, I understand that I sort of support the idea that you're GM is not giving regular interviews, but I just think it's bad business to give no interviews,

to give nothing. The last time Leon Rose gave an interview, Leon's given, and I personally like Leon a lot, he's a very nice guy, and he's done a really good job with the next. He's done one interview in the, I shouldn't say this for sure. The last interview he did was before the season started, I believe, in 2021, at their facility in Terrytown. And you're not counting the in-house. thing, like they did an in-house thing after signing brunch.

I think he did something with Breen. But look, yeah, that doesn't count. If you don't want to, you know, Donnie Walsh used to hold court when he was the GM of the Nix. He would hold court before every game. Okay, I get that. You don't want to do that. Phil Jackson gave a lot of interviews.

You know, he, whatever. But you can't give none. And this is just the point. I think if Don't had just said or even had Leon Rose say it for him last summer, that there would, it would have had a different view on this. But, okay, the other thing that I think, is interesting, is that he said, and by the way, in the pantheon of Dolan interviews, which there have been quite a few over the years, not that many in recent years, this was not a bad

interview. It ended up having bad timing. He gave the interview, like, in the afternoon, and then the Knicks get beat by 30 at night. Two hours before the game started, he gave this interview, and then they got obliterate. By a team they're going to have to go through to get to the finals, probably. We just praise the Knicks up one side and down the other, and they lose the next four. It's not like I'm going to go on for timing. But not only, only did he talk, you know, he talked about how great the chemistry is with this team. He's like, I've never seen a locker room more copacetic. That was a, that was a quote that came out of his mouth. Like, that was very interesting. But the other thing was, he talked about how in his tenure

his owner, which I agree with, the Knicks have gotten in trouble when he has gone for the shiny new thing. Craig Carton, to his credit, said like Janus. And Jim said, yes. Well, but I would say was Kat not a shiny new thing last year? Well, he was. Let me read the quote. As an owner, you have to be patient, which, except not then. When I get impatient is when we veer off the plan and reach for the shiny new thing. And we think we can win a championship or build a championship team in one fell swoop.

I've been at this now for almost 30 years and I can tell you that it does happen once in a while, but I don't think that's how we're going to win. So I would, that's an interesting quote when we veer off the plan because I would argue their plan has been to poach Yanis for quite some time now. So I don't know. I don't think so. I think he's referring to, for example, when Donnie Walsh, as you mentioned, spent two years creating cap space to have cap space in the summer of 2010,

they get Amari Stademeyer, they start to have some success. Then the Carmelo Anthony stuff happens. And as Donny Walsh is negotiating with Missa Jiri then in Denver to get Carmelo Anthony and they're going up against Bichael Prokeroff and the Nets, who were about to go to Brooklyn, James Dolan came flying in at the end and said, we're getting Carmelo Anthony,

throw everything out the door, trade all the stuff, all the point, whatever, we got to get this done. And that short-circuited any chance the Knicks ever really had to build a good enough team around Carmelo to actually go up

against the LeBron Heat and win. So they had an okay team and made one one playoff series, but they never did anything. That's just one example of Dolan coming in and yanking the steering wheel to the right. Well, he flat out made it clear that he loves the way the team is right now. It thinks it's a championship team and doesn't want to change it. So now look, the NBA, you sometimes have to change your mind.

He absolutely can change his mind. But, I mean, he was on the record to say that. He's very famous for changing his mind. And by the way, not just now, not just, you know, in talks now, but they had a chance last summer to make some sort. Now, maybe the Bucks don't ever. do the deal. Maybe the talks were just to satisfy something, but there were talks between the Knicks and the Bucks. And the Knicks clearly did not go all in on that. Just like they didn't

go all in on Donovan Mitchell talks. There's not a lot of all in to be done because they went all in on the Bridges, McCall Bridges deal. They're like the picks have been spent. And, you know, I will say that that kind of midseason deal rarely pays immediate dividends. It rarely pays dividends that season. You know, like with the Lakers, the Luca deal didn't really pay dividends for them last season. Now you have to make that trade because it's a chance to get a generational talent for a team that didn't have a clear path to get another one of those guys, much less willing to enter in his prime. But when's the last time a superstar was traded mid-season and was a driving force in a championship run? I mean, the closest example of that is Rashid Walsh, 2004, which underscores your point.

Yeah. And again, not a superstar. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. The Thunder 74 Win Talk has been retired. Seventy Win Talk is probably in jeopardy, although, you know, I don't know. They could win 20 in a row. But after a stunning loss to the Charlotte Hornets, they're six and six in the last 12 games. By the way, Bobby Marks pointed this out, when the Hornets have had their quote unquote preferred starting lineup, which is con canipal, Lamello Ball, Brandon Miller, Ryan Calkbrenner, and Miles Bridges, they're nine and four. Food for thought.

Keep an eye on the Hornets. So the Thunder remain a very good defensive team. Maybe they've had a bobble here and there. And by the way, like a couple of these losses of these six losses, two of the losses have come on relatively challenging last second inside the last couple second shots. Last minute shot, yeah. And Ann and Booker. Booker was last second, and it was last minute.

Yeah, how much time was a two-point game, and they lost a two-point game to the spurs. Ant was because they had the block 25 seconds But it was a late It was a late shot And they lost a And the Spurs game was really close

And the other two Spurs losses were bad And this loss was obviously very bad Yeah so like look Some of these lost It's not like they did get boat race in this one But it still takes a high level of play To beat the Thunder I will point out though

That in the stretch And you know look Isaiah Hartenstein is out right now and that is a factor, although they've dealt with injuries all year. In this stretch, their offense has wavered a little bit. And they are, I think, 22nd in the league in offense over the line. And there's a bunch of games Tuesday night, so it might be different by the time the pod posts. But they're 22nd in offense after these 12 games, and that's a 12-game stretch.

And Shea has actually had a couple of games where he's been human. He's not like he's had four of 17 nights where he scored seven points, but he's had a few games where he's failed to score 30, believe it or not. No, well, he's hitting 20, but it's not, these last two games have been two of his most inefficient games. Maybe he's two most inefficient after look, games of the season. I mean, and I think Shay right now is fighting through midseason fatigue physically and probably mentally. I think the hype that this team dealt with after that 24 and one start got to be a bit heavy. And the other thing, Jalen Williams coming back.

And look, it's not fair to this guy to say they were 18 and 1 with them and now they're, I think, 12 and 5 or 18 to 1 without them, 12 and 5 with them or 12 and 6 with them. Okay. Jaylon Williams, their number 2 guy offensively, is learning how to shoot jump shots again with the surgically repaired wrist. He's regaining his field. This is going to be a process. The guy had major surgery on his shoe. shooting wrist. Now, he also had 40 points when that wrist needed to be surgically repaired in a pivotal finals game five. If you're down on Jason Williams after a dozen games,

I don't know what to tell you about basketball. Yeah. I'm not down on the Thunder one iota, just for the record. Yeah, they're going to be fine. I mean, for the same, for the same reason that we see the Brooklyn Nets have a hot stretch during the season, the Washington Wizards have a hot stretch during the season and the Utah Jazz have a hot stretch during the season. Sometimes the really good team struggle. And I certainly thought this team was going to push for 70 plus wins. They're probably not going to do that. Doesn't mean they're not an awesome team.

Doesn't mean they're not the favorite. What it does mean, I think, is that the doors open a little bit. And I think it only underscores that this has got a chance to be in unbelievable playoffs, knock on wood with people being healthy, between this Denver team with Nicole Okich, with the Spurs with Victor, with the Rockets with Kevin Durant, now Perrin-Shangoon and Amin Thompson and Stephen Adams and all the size they have. This Thunder team could be the last hurra for LeBron. We'll see.

The wolves have made the conference finals the last two years in a row. You know, like there's a lot of fun teams out west in particular that it's going to be fun to watch knock heads in the spring. I would just say next Tuesday they play the Spurs at home. Oh, I'll be there. Another I-35 showdown. And I look right over the Red River, baby. I look forward.

We'll be waiting a pod till after that one, that's for sure. See how that we go. I guess we probably should. Are we not going to? Are we not going to? I would like we'd have to. Well, I'm going to the Hawks' Lakers game that night here in L.A. So I can leave after pregame and I'll come to do the pot.

Anyways, as you were saying. Just saying that. That is like, you know, let's see. So they have three games to sort of write the ship a little bit between now and then. That is a barometer game. In fact, they played next Thursday then at Houston. Those two games. And so next week, if you want to see where the Thunder are,

and let's see what happens next Tuesday and Thursday. I'll give them this week. They got to get well game against the Jazz on Wednesday, who I'm either who annoyed that anyway because they're messing around with their draft pick. But they have a couple of games to get themselves right after this Hornets game. And my guess is losing by, I think of the else by 27. that may sober them up a little bit, not that they need sobered up,

but it may refocus them to use a better language. Next week's a big week for the Thunder to really remind everybody who they are or to show that they're maybe still a little shaky. Well, and you know what? I was in their locker room after a couple of those losses. I was in the locker room after the loss to the Spurs and the NBA Cup,

and it was very, like, you know, they didn't like they lost. But it was a very loose locker room. Honestly, I was in the locker room the other night after Booker hit the game winner on them. Still a very loose locker room. I would have thought the way that the Spurs just absolutely annihilated them in the second and third times that they played, that would be kind of a slap in the face, like refocus moment. But, dude, the way they were humiliated against the Hornets, that's got to be like a harsh. Tonight, you know, when they woke up in the morning,

it had to be like a harsh feeling. They had won 45 straight games against teams with sub-500 records. 45 straight games. Wow, I didn't see that stat. Yes. That's how you get a 60-win team. You beat everybody you're supposed to.

They had a 24-game winning streak regular season against the Eastern Conference. Yeah, that I know. Basically, if you were a bad team, you'll get your butt handed to you by the Thunder. And then, dude, the Hornets blew them out. And I tuned in midway through the second quarter because I was at Warriors Clips. So I put it on my phone midway through the second quarter. I'm like, oh my goodness, this is,

you know, the Hornets are up, you know, 16 or whatever. This is crazy. And I kept waiting for the thunder run to come. It never happened. And so if this isn't the thing that gets them refocus, but a lot of this, again, they're not as sharp defensively, but they're going through the muck right now offensively against the Sons. They had two fast-break points. This is the best team in the world at turning turnovers into points. They're not able to, you know, for whatever reason,

that's not happening right now. And Shea is going through, by his standards, a nasty funk. And do I think he's going to come out of it? Yes. Do I think he's going to end the season, averaging 32 points extraordinarily efficiently for a mid-60s plus win team?

Yes, but right now this is a funk. And you know when their toughest funks were last year, they were during the playoffs. It wasn't a smooth ride to the championship. Two-seven game series. Yeah, and they were down two-one in both of those series. So they've dealt with these things. They just did it in the playoffs last year, not the regular season. This is as rough a regular season stretch as they've had since they became a really good team.

Yeah. Kevin Durant hit a nice shot. in the final seconds to clench the rockets with a victory over the Phoenix Suns on Monday. Tough back-to-back for the Suns because their plane broke down. So it's always a bit of a challenge when you're going west-east on a back-to-back because you lose the hour. So, you know, it's about maybe two-hour, two-and-half-hour flight. They didn't even get to their hotel until two o'clock on game day. But whatever, you know, just thought I should point that out.

But the Rockets with a good victory, KD's been having a great season. And after the game, he got asked. The clip, I think he had asked a couple of times. The clip I saw was when Dwayne Rankin from the Arizona Republic, who he obviously knew was asking the question to the B-writer for the previous two years, asked him. And KD basically said, yeah, it feels really good to hit a game winner, especially when it's against the team that was scapegoating you. I like when he said.

He goes, I don't want to be dramatic. but I will. He does want to be dramatic. Yeah, against the team that basically, you know, kicked him out of town and that scapego him. And, hey, I understand why KD feels that way. They tried to trade KD essentially behind his back last year. And as he said, this was the first time he basically, a team wanted to get rid of him.

He's obviously left before, but it crushed OKC when he left. You know, the warriors desperately wanted to keep him. You know, the Nets, he forced his way out there. This was the first time a team decided that franchise wanted to move on from Kevin Durant. And that, you know, that stuck with him a little bit for sure. No, it's totally true. No, it's totally, I thought there was a moment where I thought my son might be waking up, so I was a little distracted.

No, it's totally true. It's been fascinating to watch the Bontemp's new dad season. He's doing pretty well, McMahon. But it's definitely a different Pontemps season. Well, we're home by ourselves tonight, so just trying to make sure the Cinder Block is in one piece.

But yeah, it's 100% true. And look, for all the things we've said about the Sons and how good a season they've had, right? The undercurrent of that is that Kevin Durant and Bradley Buehler no longer there. And it's a different vibe there. And Mike Boonehoser. And Mike Boonehosa, the coach, for sure.

They've gone through several coaches. But, like, that's been an undercurrent of it. And, like, we've talked about, going back to the summer. They didn't exactly get a haul for Kevin Durant either. It's not like they got six first round picks and three great young players. They got a bad contract in Jalen Green. They got a mid-Lottery pick in Kamen Moloch who ended up being the draft pick they made there.

Who's a factored in their season at all? And they got Dylan Brooks, who's a nice, solid starter. No, they got Dylan Brooks, who's been a massive part of helping reset their culture who they absolutely adore. Dylan Brooks has been a great fit there. But Dylan Brooks is not some giant... I like the other day to Marcus Cousins on Fandul said that, you know, they should trade Dylan Brooks for Austin Reeves. And like, the... Ishby is tweeting, like, the whole...

Who else should we offer Dylan Brooks for just to see, like, how far up the chain would you have to go before Ishbio would tweet? We're not trading to Dylan Brooks. Sure. I mean, the point is, Dylan Brooks has been a great fit there. It's not like Dylan Brooks is an all-star. He's not. He's a solid startup. And he was the best asset they got into Kevin Durant. Yes.

Okay? Like that, that's the bottom line. So Kevin Durant got traded for almost spare parts. The son should trade Dylan Brooks for Victor Wenbighama. I've said. You were you. Aggregated.

This is the one time when he wasn't getting aggregated. Aggregate me. I said it. And look, Kevin has gone to Houston and it's been an awesome fit. And it's a deal. You know, I don't know if it necessarily say that part of the deal has worked out as good for Phoenix. Probably would have been better if they had Kevin Durant,

with the rest of what they've got going on. But they're in a good spot now, at least this season. And Kevin is obviously very happy to be in Houston where he's been a very nice fit. And they're playing great. Significant extension. Mm-hmm. Yep.

A significantly sub-max extension, which was an indication of just how happy he was to be there. Listen, I, Durant talks about the game all the time, adds spice to the game, sometimes says stuff that I think he's off on, but I love that he, you know, talks stuff like this. He's an extremely deserving winner of the Magic Johnson Award, which is the Riders Association Award for the best person with the media. And obviously part of that is being a star player. And Kevin has always been an awesome guy to interview because if you ask him a good question, he'll give you a good answer.

And if he doesn't like the question or he thinks it's a dumb question, he'll say it's a dumb question, which is great. It's totally fine. I also sometimes Kevin doesn't agree with something that you do or say, and he'll come and tell you, I don't agree what you do or say. You talk it out and then you move on. Yes. He's awesome. He's been awesome to deal with this whole career. Yes. Right.

All right. Big, big, another feather in his cap. He's got a bunch of game winners in his career. On Tuesday, the NBA put out its second batch of All-Star voting. We just talked about Kevin Durant. He's ninth in the West and 15th overall. all in total votes, which is remarkable because he's having an unquestionably all-star season. And, you know, you could make the case that the guys who were in the top five maybe should be

head of him, but 15th is a bit surprising with all due respect. But LeBron James is 14th and 8th in the West. And I think we can pretty much say, we'll not be starting in the All-Star game. Either of those guys will be starting in the All-Star game. not voted as a starter. He certainly didn't start the All-Star game last year because he didn't show for it.

Also, one of the guys who doesn't deserve to be above Kevin Durant the All-Star vote is LeBron James. That's correct. And really, yeah, and you have to, it's a little odd to be doing it as the total votes because it's, you're picking five from each conference.

So naturally there's going to be guys in the East that are going to have more votes. Whether, if you're just picking 10 players to start the All-Star game, Kevin Durant, LeBron might be high. That's fair. But this is a guy who.

The eighth and ninth in the west is the more notable part. Yeah. Yeah. But especially a little bit of a lot. Denny Avia remains significantly ahead of both of them. Yeah. That's fascinating. And I will say this.

You know, the league has tinkered a lot with All-Star voting over the years. But one of the things that they did is now you have to be a, you have to have an account at MBA.com to vote. Although they have different days when votes count differently. So I don't know. But the level, what it takes. It takes sort of another level of investment in the NBA to vote. And frankly, I think the All-Star voting has gotten smarter. Well, they changed the rules a few years ago to eliminate the ability for essentially

people that they didn't think should be starting the All-Star game to start. And it's worked. In the last three or four years, the voting has been much better. And again, it's like McMahon said, if you look at the five guys leading this voting, Luca Dachis, Nikolokic, Steph Curry, Chegios Alexander, and Victor Wemanniama. Those are the five guys that should be starting in the All-Star game.

The only guy you might want to argue is maybe start Ant over Steph, and he's six. So, like, I think those guys you could toss, flip a coin and pick one of the other. But, like, those are the six best players in the West this year. And they're the top six guys getting votes. And I'd say it's the same thing in the East. So.

Except for Jaylen Brown is sixth and probably. Uh-oh. Well, Jaylen certainly doesn't think he should be sixth. I mean, again, if you want to put... Hell, Half No Wrath, like his Twitter and Twitter. If you want to put Jalen Brown ahead of Donovan Mitchell or whoever of those top five guys, sure. By the way, I like that Jalen is advocating for himself, but, you know, just the complaining about the player of the month was a little bit funny. And I just...

It was funny, but then he backs it up. That's okay. I certainly did. I know. And then he didn't win player with a week. Tyrese, one player. And then they... And then they lost to Denver.

So, you know. I know. And Jalen did not lose. Jalen did not lose. Yeah, I mean, Jalen Brunson, that's true. I mean, Jalen Brunson's team has gone off a cliff, and now Tyreys Max's team has lost to Denver. So at the end of the day,

you don't want to get one of these awards over Jalen Brown. That's all the match. A couple years ago before the All-Star, and I granted, he's been heard a lot, but a couple of years ago, before the All-Star voting changes, I think we had to register. And if I have this timeline wrong,

I will stand corrected. Lamello Ball got voted in as a starter. And the players and the media who get 50% of the vote, players get 25%, media gets 25%, fans get 50. The players in the media's vote pulled Lamello out of the game. Yeah. Voted as a starter by the fans.

He is now 12th in the East. Hmm. That's interesting. And that's no offense to him. He's just, he's not an all-star starter. Well, he's also become less relevant, a lot less relevant of those. Well, okay.

I'm just sitting, I don't, you know. That's interesting. You know, he has been a worthy all-star in the past, but he's not an all-star starter in the Eastern Conference. And he wasn't that here either. Obviously, the brawn hasn't been on the floor enough to merit deserving to be an all-star starter based on performance this season. But Kobe late in his career wasn't an all-star caliber player anymore.

And he was a shoe-in every single time because he was just that popular. He was always going to be up there. Right. Well, he always was going to get the votes. Right. I just think it's interesting. It doesn't have the same connection with the Lakers fan base, essentially. The Lakers is the biggest fan base.

Luca Donchich has 2.2 million votes and LeBron has 1 million votes. Now, Luca had a lot of fans before he was a Laker. He was getting a lot of votes. But that's one point two. He's been better and healthier all season, both factors too. That's true. But all-star voting doesn't always reflect the real-time performance. I'm just saying in the current setup that we have,

whether whatever you think of it, it reflects current performance. Well, Austin Reeves has 700,000 votes. So, you know, it's interesting. Like, I don't know, maybe the Laker fans aren't voting as much. I don't know. So, but that's what it is. All right.

Maybe they think you have to have, like, the station that has a Lakers game that nobody can get to vote. A lot of people can get it, though. That's why they get, like, nine figures a year for it. I'm trying to figure out how to get in my hotel. room tonight. Well, you're not going to get in your hotel room. You're going to have to rely on the good old league pass for it. All right. Thank you very much to Devon & Jackson for producing. Thank you to Bonn, Thompson, McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching The Hoot Collective. We'll talk to you later this week.

Adios, amigos.