Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Big Changes Needed For Hawks & Trae Young? + AD Trade Possibilities & Clippers Improvement

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the Hawks’ struggles since Trae Young’s return including if it is time for Atlanta to move on from Trae and the potential struggles in doing so. Plus, the guys break down why the trade market for Anthony Davis is challenging for the Mavs before talking the impressive play from the Nets and Jazz of late. Then, we talk Wemby’s development as the face of the franchise in San Antonio, the Clippers getting back on track with a historic game from Kawhi and finally the drama around Giannis’ late dunk. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening,

joining us from New York City back on the East Coast, just in time for all the snow is Tim Bun Tups. Hello, everybody. And joining us from Oklahoma City, where he saw the Thunder break their long losing streak. I was worried that the Thunder were headed for disaster, but they righted the ship today against the 76ers as Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners.

Shea sat out of fourth quarter and was, just happy over there on the bench. It was quite a different site than these last couple against the spurs. But the Sixers, there are no spurs. There was no wimby, no Embed either for that matter. But yeah, I agree with you. I think the Thunder probably going to end up being just fine. Isaiah Hartenstein today tweaked his calf, though. So that's a bit of a concern. I suspect there could be some updates by Monday on that. Well, yeah, they play tomorrow. So there will be updates, at least some level of an update. left late in the third, did not return. This will shock you to know that the thunder were tight-lipped about it post-game.

And we will see. But, you know, it's obviously those calf injuries are tricky and finicky. And, you know, that's not an encouraging development. Yeah. So we'll see what happens there. The Thunder have depth, though, and they've shown it before at the big man position. So they may have to deal with him. You know, we just had this Austin Rees.

injury where he had a calf injury, came back for two games, re-injured the calf, and now is out at least a month. Although I think the Lakers said that it was a different part of the calf or a different injury that one is the way to the other. I don't know. I'm skeptical of that, I'm not a doctor. I doubt it. Well, yeah, they just, no team wants to give the concept that they brought a player back too early. Like that's, you know, whether it is or it isn't, no team wants that. So anyway, Monday the Thunder play. the Atlanta Hawks. Atlanta Hawks are an interesting team right now.

So they have lost six games in a row. They have fallen completely into the play-in zone in the Eastern Conference. They've gone from several games over 500 to several games under. And I don't know how to say this other than it coincides with Tray Young returning from injury, from that knee injury. I mean, their record, just looking at their record, the record is awful with Tray Young in the lineup and good with that. That is still.

Yeah, Bontem's you have the, you have, what's the raw number? I mean, the raw numbers are when Trey Young plays, the Hawks this year have gone two and eight, and that includes a game in Brooklyn against the Nets when he got hurt. When I believe the score in the first five minutes of that game was something like 18 to 2, and he then hurt his knee. They came back and won the game, but I'm pulling up quickly, trying to pull up with the Yonov splits all. for him. So when Trey is on the court this season, the Hawks have a defensive rating in 280 minutes of 126.2, which for the record is not great. They're being outscored by almost seven

points per 100 possessions. And when he's on the court, their defensive rating goes all the way down to 112.9 and they're even. So it's a negative, almost seven point swing. The offense does get worse, but not as much as the defense gets dramatically better. and therein lies the problem with Trey Young and the Hawks. Yeah, so he was out almost exactly six weeks, okay? And in those six weeks, the Hawks went 13 and 9, and they ranked 12th in defense in those six weeks, which is, you know, middle of the pack,

but, you know, certainly put you in position to compete. Jalen Johnson, he played out of the 22 games that Trey missed, Jalen Johnson played in 20 of those games, And he averaged 23 points, 11 rebounds, 9 assists on 51% shooting when Trey was out. Since Trey's come back, there's been six games. They've lost all six. He's only played in five of them. He did skip, I think, a back-to-back.

In those six games, and again, he didn't play in one, and they got blown out in that game by San Antonio. But in those six games, they've ranked 28th in defense since he came back. Now, I'm going to say another factor there is Porzingis has also missed all those games. Absolutely. Porzingis has been out the last couple. Actually, he's been out straight the last couple of weeks, but he's missed a lot of time in the last month dealing with illness. Shams and Om Young Mussook reported on Sunday that he could be back in the next few days, however, coming back from dealing with the illness. Absolutely true. But Porzingis missed a lot of time before that, too, where they were better defensively. So here's Tray's numbers. He's come back, and he's played in five games. He's averaging 21 points a game. He's shooting 39 and change. I'll give him 40% from three, and he's averaging 10 assists. He is not playing poorly offensively. He's played pretty, he's like he's dogging it out there.

It's just that their systems defensively are really, they suffer when Trey's out there. It's not all a product of him. I'm sure if Quinn Snyder was here or if Trey was here, he could illustrate ways that maybe that's unfair to assign it to him. But, you know, the numbers are the numbers. Well, and the other thing here is the Hawks certainly are indicated. that they're looking for the exit ramp with Trey Young. They did not make any attempt to get them signed to an extension. When that's the case with your face of the franchise,

that's a pretty clear message that the end could be near. And we've talked about this a lot with Trey. The same is true with Jha, Rant in Memphis, and with Lamello Ball in Charlotte, that if there's an attempt to trade these guys, it's not going to be easy. There's not going to be some wide array of teams raising their hand and trying to get in on the bidding,

and I'm not sure if you're even going to be able to make a trade that's going to bring value in return. If you look at the Hawks roster, the theory of the Hawks is pretty clear, right? They want to have long, rangy, athletic players at every position. And pretty much all the moves they've made have been geared towards doing that. And when Trey wasn't playing, they were rolling out there with a lineup with Nicky Alexander Walker

and Dyson Daniels and Jalen Jones and Jalen, Johnson and Anya Kankwu and Zachary Risha Shea, last year's number one overall pick. Those guys all are long, rangy, athletic players, right? And they don't have a ton of size. They've struggled on the boards at times. They're not a perfect team. They struggled in the half court offensively.

Like, they had a pretty, they had pretty rough offensive half court numbers. But there was a theory of what that group looked like in that it worked, at least to a certain degree, and they were, you know, a pretty competitive team. Trey doesn't fit in that vision at all. And when you look at the modern league and the amount of physicality that is going on in these games, and we've talked about the emphasis on offensive rebounding and just the size the teams are playing with across the board, Trey's one of the smaller players in the league. He's always been a rough defensive player.

And it's not hard, while you can argue it's not fair, it's not hard to do a one-to-one correlation of the defense going off a cliff with Trey Young on the court and say the offense coming down is going, we can go at Trey Young every time and have success. So to your point, McMahon, we're in a situation now where if you're the Hawks, like, it doesn't seem like Trey fits long term. And so the question is, is there a path to getting him elsewhere that can allow them to pivot in a direction

where they can focus on the way they've been building this team, which is in a vision of guys that frankly don't fit Trey's profile? And like, I think that's one of the bigger questions to watch in the league between now and the trade deadline, because if you look around the league for all the reasons we've been talking about all these point guards and you wrote that story with Bobby about it, like there's not a lot of teams that need point guards. And there's not a lot of places where you go, yeah, this team is anxious to go trade for a $45 million guy, which is the same part of why Anthony Davis's trade market is impacted. And all these other guys that are potentially on the market might not be going anywhere. Sounds like Young-Tempst, is a Trey Young fan, is not liking what he's hearing in the background out there. Mr. Bontas is still adjusting to East Coast life. It's been a long after, long day of naps for him. Yeah, yeah. That's a jet lag for the little bond. Although young Mr. Bontemps has been to the West Coast about four times already. He's got a better passport game than I do, too. It's ridiculous. I think that's accurate. No, but would Trey, I don't know. I don't know where the destination would be, like Minnesota.

Soda would like to upgrade it point guard, but I don't know if there's a deal that makes sense for the wolves just making the problem is the salary. Just making the salary match is going to be tough. And like, I can just tell you, you know, the Mavericks would like to work out a deal to send Anthony Davis to Atlanta, but Trey Young's not going to be part of that. They want to move forward with Kyrie Irving as their point guard. And you're not going to play those two guys together. And by the way, just to interject, if the Hawks do a deal for Anthony Davis that doesn't include Trey Young. They are not only a second apron in 2026-27, they're like wildly into the second apron in 2026, 2027. The Atlanta Hawks are not going to be wildly into the second

apron. They haven't even been into the tax in a long time. So that is not, to me, any sort of realistic path to something happening. Now, that's assuming Trey would pick up his player option, but given the chili trade market, it's probably in his best interest to pick up that player option. You have to operate under the assumption with options that people will do the thing that's in their best interest. And as of today, it's hard for me to sit here and see Trey Young doing anything other than picking up an option for 2026, 27 for almost $49 million. Yeah, I mean, I think Trey is in the situation like we've seen many players in years past where is there a possibility that he could work out a contract where he declines the player option, takes a new contract that guarantees him more money over years, but lower. the average salary, that's possible. However, you know, that's hard to do when you've been the franchise player of a team and you're still in your prime years.

And I think Tray is one of the first. I was going to say it's possible for him to maybe do that with another franchise, but I don't know that at this point, it makes a lot of sense for the Hawks to even give him a pay cut extension. Well, I would argue it doesn't. And it also goes back to the same thing we've been talking about for more than a year now. which is we are entering into a new reality from a financial standpoint across the league. And Trey is one of the first guys who's, you know, these all-star max players who is now running into this new reality of the financial constraints of this new CBA. And five years ago, Trey probably does get a max or probably does get something close to a max or has been traded somewhere for a big, what's that?

Maybe not even five years ago. Right, maybe not even. But things would have been different. I would, just to say five years ago for a safe exercise, I think this whole situation would look different. But it's not five years ago. He would have extended already. Yeah.

Certainly that would be, if you go off the prior decade of evidence that we have, he's a guy that would either be on the Hawks or would be extended or, to McBan's point, would be elsewhere and extended. And the fact that he's not, I think goes back to all of these big questions that are coming in terms of how things are going to look different. in this new system that we're in. And he's one of the first guys that I think is really running into the realities of that where there's not a huge market for his services.

And he's going to say, hey, I'm making this money. I'm an all-star player. I'm putting up big numbers. Like, I should be getting paid. And I'm just not sure where the market is. Especially if you're a Trey Young fan. You're like, the guy's, did he lead the league in assists last year? Was he second?

I believe he led last year. Yeah. I mean, the guy puts up routinely 20 and 10. like he averages 20 and 10. And so you're saying, wait a minute, how can a player average is 20 and 10 who's 27 years old? You're talking about how there's not that much of a market for him. And I can understand why that's a hard sell.

It's certainly a hard sell to him. You know, the thing. So his number next year, his player option is $49 million. That is 30% of next year's cap. And we've just illustrated that at least right now, and we'll see what happens the rest of the season. I don't know. But right now, him being out there is not contributing.

you know, it's not that he's hurting the team. It's not helping the Hawks win. Well, the record does. You just can't have a, well, I just, you can't have a guy making 30% of the cap who has that sort of effect, you know, whether it's his fault or it's circumstances or whatever. And so that's the reality. Right. And this is a situation where Trey Young making $25 million has a much different market, right?

But you can't, this isn't baseball. You can't say, hey, Minnesota, we'll take on $20 million of Trace money. and you send us back 25, right? That doesn't work in the NBA. So whether it's, again, whether it's Anthony Davis or Trey Young or any of these other guys like this is, you know, like McBan said it a bunch of times. Anthony Davis wants to get extended wherever he goes, right? Okay, well, Anthony Davis is due to make $120 million the next two years and is approaching

35 years old and gets hurt a lot. That is not realistic expectation to go somewhere and get extended for a huge number going into your late 30s when you have that, that, that evidence behind you of what this is going to look like. Jeff Stott's who runs in street clothes. He's a good follow on X and he's got his blog in street clothes. He stopped me when he put out the number this week, or I guess last week. So AD is out right now with a groin injury.

Was he day to day, McMahon? They're saying he's day-to-day, Sean's report. He's expected miss at least a few games. Okay. This is the 13th groin injury of Anthony Davis's career where he's misdames. Groins become adductors, by the way. So whatever, call whatever you want. It's the 13th time.

I mean, that is, wow. Yeah, that's tough. And then obviously there's been calves. There's been, you know, multiple other injuries. But, I mean, he's played this year less than half the Mavericks games. You know, since he's been in a Mavericks uniform, it's way less than half the games. And, you know, he's a very, like, dude, there are a 500 team with him and four and 13 without him this year. He's still an extraordinarily impactful player.

I mean, he's a walking double-double and still one of the best defensive bigs in the league, especially, you know, he wasn't in great shape for early in season as he's gotten in better shape. But, again, entering his mid-30s, very expensive now, wants to continue to be very expensive with more guaranteed years. It's a complicated trademark. And the other thing is, you know, the Mafriks are sitting here. They gave up a perennial first-team all-MBA player entering his prime. to get this guy, you know, even though the guy who made the trade is... I heard something about that.

Yeah, the guy who made the trade is gone, but the owner who approved it is still the final decision maker. And, you know, do you want to take back? Because whatever they get for Anthony Davis, people can look at and go, this is what the return for Luke ended up being. And, you know, so you've got that, call it pride or whatever is in play here. And like the Mavericks, if you think you're going to get the bananas of picks package and all that for Anthony Davis, I think you're setting yourself up to be.

disappointed. That anchoring is part of this straight thing too. This is a tough line to walk, isn't it? Because we're not trying to be critical of these guys. We're just trying to explain the way the league is seeing them. It's just it's the new reality. It's the new reality of where the league is at from a financial standpoint. Like the NBA is operating more or less in a hard cap system now. Like you, it's just, it's very hard, especially in season, to move big salaries for anybody, even great players, even players you desperately want to have, like to just construct a trade for a player making $45, $50, $50, $60 million is extremely difficult right now. It's very hard for teams to do.

That's before you get into all these teams having traded draft picks and everything else. Like Cavs Corner over the second apron, can't make a trade. The Knicks, $5 below the second apron. Can't really realistically. By the way, I got people coming at me because I keep saying it's impossible for the calves to make. I think I said impossible. And it's difficult.

Obviously, there are trades that the calves can make that work on the trade machine. That's right. It's just unrealistic to expect them to make a lot of moves. But making a trade that makes them better that is legal, you start getting, you start entering fantasy land. That's right. It's very hard to do. And the other thing is when you're dealing with a guy like Anthony Davis or, you know, in the case of Kevin Durant last year, I think it's similar situations. They're going to have some say in the matter. Like you couldn't just trade Kevin Durant to Golden State if you didn't want to go there. It's just not the reality of the way that the NBA works. You can't just trade. Anthony Davis to a team that's not willing to give him an extension this summer. That's not the way this works. And it's not an insult to Anthony Davis to say, hey, the market for Kevin Durant was a good starter in Dylan Brooks. And let's be honest, at the time, Dylan Brooks is seen as a, he's played really well for Phoenix.

He's like a starter. I'm not even sure. He was a good starter for the rocks, but whatever. No, I agree. But I just mean, it's not like he, it's not like he was some, I'm a starter. like a crazy value deal. Right. Perfectly average contract.

Can I just say I was talking to an NBA GM in the last day or two who was like, you know, we looked when we were at the start of the season, we looked at the Sons and we sort of said, that's an easy game. Yeah. Because he was talking about how, they was talking about how in the Western Conference, like, evaluation of schedules is like from where you were at the start of the season to now is totally different. They were like, yeah, he's like, you know, we had a few games with the Sons early

in the season and we thought those would be easy games. And we're like, those were not easy games. So Matt Ispia, you know, let it be known. But again, the return for KD was Dylan Brooks, Jalen Green, who you can sell that as an upside play, but really it's salary filler. And then their own pickback, which was the 10th overall pick. So, again, if you're looking at, okay, that's what the market was for Kevin Durant and you had to wait until the summer to get a deal done. For the Mavericks, if you can get a deal where you're getting draft compensation, and I don't think it'll be plural. expiring salary and a young guy with some upside,

that to me is a great return for Anthony Davis that's going to not win any press conferences. No, I mean, in that anchoring, that anchoring is the thing that's weighing on all these conversations, right? Like, to your point, McMahon, Dallas has the Luca trade anchoring whatever happens with Anthony Davis, because whether Nico Harrison is there or not, obviously he's not. Any Anthony Davis's trade immediately is going to be reflected back on,

well, he just got acquired for Luca. now he's getting traded for X, which is it going to be Luca. I can just, you know, news flash. Maybe Luca Garza. Right. By the way, Luca Garza is getting it done there. That's right. The Blazers beat the Celtics tonight.

Nice win for them. Yeah, the Celtics had a four-game win streak. Yeah, they've been playing really well. By the way, breaking news from Intoit Dome. Uh-oh. I went to the Clippers' Pistons first half tonight. I had to leave to do this podcast to make sure that McMahon could get done. I don't know what is your problem is.

You dragged out of their kicking and. scream and I'm sure. Go on. My eight-year-old, who's attending the game tonight with my wife, my eight-year-old got a t-shirt from the T-shirt Canon. Oh, nice. It is three sizes too big. It's three sizes too big, orange. It has nothing to do with the Clippers.

I guess it has a Clippers logo on. Wait, no, it is. They have those weird, like, orange crush. It's like, their uniforms, I had to ask them. I'm like, what is up with all this? And it's like some hodgepodge of all the different places. There's like Buffalo Braves and Sandy. San Diego.

I guess that is true. It's sugar rush, I think it's called or something like that. Yeah, so it's tied into these uniforms. But if you're all three-periform requires like a three-paragraph explanation, find something else. He won't be ready to wear this t-shirt for three to five years, but he is very excited. It's just breaking news that the t-shirt canon has smiled. Did he boxed out to get it? I don't know.

I'll have to get full detail later on. The clippers are in a dogfire right now at the Pistons. I think no matter what happens, my son will walk away happy in this game. Sorry to interrupt you. No, but it's just like it's the same thing. Obviously, it's a different degree, but it's the same thing with Trey Young in Atlanta. This is a guy who is the best player they've had since, who, Joe Johnson? Dominique, maybe.

Dominique, arguably. Like, you could argue, DeKembe. Like, regardless, he's, for a Hawks franchise that hasn't had a lot of highs. It's been the face of the franchise for the better part of, what, seven, eight years. a better part of a decade. He got them to a conference finals. The other guy who's traded for Lucas. Yes. But he's had a really, he's had a really good career in Atlanta. He's a really popular player. He's still putting up big numbers. It's not like he's falling off a cliff. So, he'd go to a hawks game. There's a lot of guys. There's a lot of 10 jerseys. There's a lot of

10 jerseys. So the anchoring of that, again, if you're going, hey, we're moving on from Trey Young, okay, what's the return? Well, the return is getting out of next year's money. Like, I would argue getting out of next year's money is a good return for whether it's the Mavericks for AD or for the Hawks for Trey Young. But that's easy for me to say sitting here and not the person who's executing the Trey. At the end of the day. At the end of the day. Sorry. No, number 11.

I didn't think he was number 10, but I didn't want to. No, number 11. Been a long day. Yeah, you're jet lagged. I get it. At the end of the day, Tray Young at 30% of your cap for any teams, it's a tough sell right now. that's just, you know, that's, you know, that doesn't mean he can't be a productive player. It's just really hard at 30% of your cap.

Well, and the other thing here, though, is for the Hawks be any kind of threat to make a playoff run, they are going to need a Trey Young type of offensive talent. It's just probably a guy who's a better fit for this current roster than Trey Young. And maybe Jalen Johnson can become that. Maybe they get that with the Pelicans pick. But they're not a threat this year is my point. So defensively is where they're obviously suffering. I will say in the game since Trey Young came back,

Jalen Johnson's numbers have actually increased. He's averaging 27 a game on 55% shooting, 10 rebounds of game. I mean, they've had some crazy scoring games that they've lost in this run. They're just, I mean, their defense is just horrific. He's still averaging nine assists a game since Trey came back. So it's not like they've taken the ball to his hands. They have come in with the plan about how they're going to keep. Jaylon Johnson highly involved in their offense and it's working.

So I don't want to, I don't think this is a matter of like Trey doing something wrong or like, you know, hogging the ball or whatever. No, the issues are all at the issues are all at one end of the court. That's, it's the bottom line. Their defense is gone off a cliff and as a result, so is their record. And like, the fit just isn't there. And so here's the point. It's a change between now and February 5th. The five games they've lost with Trey in the lineup since he's returned.

Here's how many points they scored. 126, 150, 123, 111, and 125. I think we can all say, yeah, they've got some defensive issues. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. By the way, to go back to AD, I was texting with Jeff Stott's,

our friend of the pod, and I asked him what the, you mentioned that 13 number in terms of this groin-edged, injuries that he had logged in his database. Jeff has this database that goes back a very long time. And I asked him, how many times have you logged anything for AD in your database? And I double checked with him. And it's data entries for injury and illness to be clear. But do you guys want to guess the number of entries for AD? 50. 50. I was going to say, I'll take 49 to try to win the

Price is right. The answer is 195. Oh, my gracious. Now remember, this is any time the guy is in an illness or injury of any kind. So, you know, how many, has he played 15 years? This is his 14th or 15th season?

He was a 12 draftee, so I think it's year 14. All right, so just on average, that's 14 entries a season. Yeah. So Anthony Davis ranks second all time in his database. Who do you think ranks first? Quaii.

It's not Kauai. Kauai hasn't played long enough. Kauai is a career high, 46 points in this game. I was going to say. Leave the third quarter. The third quarter is not over. Yes. Kauai, it's 46 is a career high?

That's the Clippers' PR stuff. Just tweeted it out. I might have to get back in an Uber. They're up by 22 on their way to a fourth straight win. It's been a very interesting week. We'll talk about that in a minute. Yeah. Way to leave that one, Wendy.

Who do we think? Who do we think is... Well, my son and wife will see history. Yeah. There you go. I don't think Embed's been in the league long. It's not in B. I'm just going to guess Vince Carter

because he was in the league 22 years. It's not Vince Carter. Right kind of guess, though. Dirk? Longevity is the right guess. Not Dirk. I think there's one fairly obvious guess that hasn't been guessed yet. Well, LeBron hasn't been long enough.

Is that right? Really? 205. Huh. That's, I wonder how many with the Lakers, because it's more. Well, again, you're talking 23 seasons. He's played almost 10 more years than Anthony Davis.

All right. So let me run that. What do you say, 205? Yeah, so it's a little, it's like 80 years. Yeah. Nine. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, I just didn't think he'd had that many injuries, but I guess. So full credit to Jeff. And again, that's any time a guy shows up on the injury report with any of them. I understand. But still, it's a lot of interest. Yeah, I mean, I guess LeBron had that, like, whole season where he was on the injury list every game for, for that foot. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know the exact breakdown of what. Barrett's. It's like Tom Brady's shoulder. I remember he was ready to be in every injury report with his shoulder. I thought it was his knee, but I can make his elbow. His database, like it's a pretty crazy thing. That database is one of a kind. Yeah. There are probably teams that don't have records on their own team, much less every player league.

Yeah. All right. Let's go to the opposite end of the spectrum, a team that's sort of overachieving. Let's welcome the Brooklyn Nets to the Hoop Collective because they're in the bottom three of teams we discuss and they have earned our attention because they've won seven of their last 10 games. It actually coincides with December 1st. I think they've played 10 games in December. And anyway, they've won 7 to 10. They've won three in a row. Guys, in this 10 game span, they're number one in the league in defense, which is a stunner,

because between the middle of October when the season started and mid-November, first two months of the year. They were 29th in defense. And over the last 15 games, they'd been second to the Thunder and the last 10 games they'd been first. In the month of December,

the Nets have a defensive rating of 103.5 that is three entire points better than the Oklahoma City Thunder over the same period. Well, they don't have to pay the Spurs all the time. And they have a net rating in the month of December of 10.3,

which is only behind the Celtics and again, the Oklahoma City Thunder. It was a pretty good company for the Brooklyn Nets. to be in. Yeah, and so I will point out, Cam Thomas is a guy who he's been out for most of these games. This is a guy who's not known for his defense, although he came back the other night and came off the bench and put up 30 in Minnesota and had, and the Nets gave the Timberwell of such a jolt that the Minnesota fans, I think the previous home game, they beat the Thunder. And then the next home game, they lose to the Nets. They get booed and Aunt says they should have boot us. But Cam Thomas did have 30 off the bench, and he was plus 21, his first game back.

What is, as I've talked to people and gotten their opinions, you know, one of the things that happened when Cam Thomas went out, he was out about a month. But just in general, Jordi Fernandez, by the way, you remember earlier this season, they started out 0.7 or 0.8, and at one point, Jordy was, like, frustrated. And he was like, I can't get these guys to play hard. And Michael Porter Jr., one point, like criticized the team's guard play. At one point, they're, you know, they have the five rookies this year. They call them the Flatbush five. The Nets fans do. At one point, Jordy stopped playing them or cut their playing time because they were getting

roasted on defense so bad. So it's been, you know, obviously they're in a rebuilding situation. They traded for their pickback this year. And, you know, they're not trying to make the playoffs. But, you know, there was a lot of frustration. And they've totally turned it around. But one of the things that's happened when Cam Thomas went out, Now, they really, Jordi started playing a really, really long lineup.

And Bontems, you have talked about these teams who are really long. You've talked about the Spurs. You saw them play recently and just how long they are. Well, if you look at the lineups that the Nets have been playing, not only Michael Porter, who's 610 out there, but they've put Noah Clowny in the starting lineup. And with Noah Clowny and Nick Claxton in there and Michael Porter, they're just really, really long.

It's resulted in, like, really great numbers in their people. paint defense. Like, it's hard to score on them in the paint. They've got shot blockers and defenders in there. And look, I mean, the numbers don't lie. You know, Jordan's got him playing with really good defense. They're playing with long lineups. Michael Porter Jr. is playing great. He's shooting 47 percent from three-pointers during this last 10 games. And guys, look at the last 19 games that Michael, because he missed some games with the back, his back tightened up a few weeks ago when he missed a couple of games. They're 10 and nine in the last 19 games Michael Porter's played in. I mean, Michael Porter is another example of the same corollary we were talking about earlier with Tray Young and Anthony Davis, where Michael Porter Jr. is a very good player. He's a flawed player, but he's a very good player. And he was part of a championship winning team in Denver. And like we talked about at the time, Cam Johnson's a nice player. But that was not a talent upgrade for Denver. It was a salary reduction to get another good player in to replace Michael Porter to get them below the second apron and to get out of the tax that they get tired of that. I don't remember exactly.

where they wound up. But that was what the motivation for that deal was. You muted, Big Man. Jackson finally had enough. To create flexibility. In real time here, Kauai has 51 through three quarters.

Yeah, 25 and the third. He's been on an absolute year. Do I need to pause this and, well, they're up by 23. No, I mean, it's not like you're going to pause this and go back to the reason.

We'll talk about the clippers. Like, when that's grunt work. I'm just giving a real, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm just giving a real time update. Yeah. Most Tim, to me, do gruntwork. You don't.

Yeah. We'll circle back to the Clippers in a bit. But yeah, so, like, Michael Porter Jr. can score and is a guy who go out there and get buckets like he's on a team where he's being treated like their primary option, and he's getting buckets. And to your point about the length that they're playing with, I'm going to see them play the Warriors on Monday. Warriors had a brutal loss in Toronto on Sunday. We're up in most of the game, blow the lead, get blown out in overtime, see how they look. Scottie Barrett's. Scottie Ballardy had 23 and 25 rebounds with a triple double.

He had something like eight rebounds in overtime. He got like every rebound in overtime. Yeah, and he got the game time offensive rebounded put back late in regulation. But, you know, the Warriors is not a big team. And if you look at this Nets team, these six guys have played in at least nine. Michael Porter has played in nine. The other guys have played in all ten of these games in December. Danny Wolf, who's a seven-foot rookie.

Darren Sharp, who's a six-eight, you know, hard rebounding big man. Yeah. Gregor Gemman, who's their eighth overall pick, who's another 6-8, big guard, Porter, who's a 6-10 forward, Claxton who's another 6-10 center, and Noah Clowny, who's another 6-10 wing. So, like, those, to your point,

that's six guys all playing fairly heavy minutes that are all big and long, and if you're rolling them all out there, that's just a lot of space that's being gobbled up all at once. Well, and listen, I've compared, there's different styles here, obviously, but to me, the Nets and the Jazz are in the same,

where they've got really good young coaches and you're just not going to be able to get great lottery odds if you have anything resembling NBA talent with Jordy Fernandez as your coach or with Will Hardy as your coach. Maybe you can get lucky and bounce up in the lottery, but, you know, the jazz, like there's this spotlight on the jazz now, which, by the way, the jazz who are coming off a back-to-back

when they beat the pistons and the spurs, there's this spotlight on the jazz now because people are like bracing for the tank so they can keep their top eight protected pick that turns into dust after this year. But, you know, we'll see how that unfolds. But like Brooklyn, going in the season, Brooklyn was expected to be one of the worst teams

in the NBA. Like, they're expected to be, I think it's safe to say, a bottom three or four team in the league, just based on talent. And then they're, you know, their number one or two offensive option missed most of the season so far.

And they're, you know, they're not, like, a threat to make the playoffs or anything. But they're pesky. I mean, they were three and 16. They're now 10 and 19. Right. I went and looked, they went from number three in the right now. They're, you know, tank, tankathon.

They're sixth. And they were, I think, second, second or third. And the jazz. We sit here today, the jazz are in ninth, which is the magic number. And look, there's, you know, there's two thirds of the season left. But, you know, one third in, the jazz are in ninth. Guante George has hit some big shots. He's, he has two game winners this year now.

He has three go-ahead shots in the last five seconds. That's three. You know, including the game winner the other night against the Pistons. And he's like, Keonté George is absolutely, if he's not the frontrunner for most improved player, he's better be on any short-list. He's on the list. But, you know, we've been saying about the jazz because they haven't had the super high picking the lottery. We've been saying, like, they need one of these recent first rounders to really pop. Keonti George wasn't a lottery pick

but he's the young recent first rounder who's finally really popped for them and honestly last year was a disappointing year like Will Hardy basically cussed him out during his exit interview and he responded to that the way that they hoped he would

and the guy's averaging 24 a game like 24 and 7 and been great in clut situations and looks like he can be a cornerstone for them moving forward they still they think Ace Bailey is going to be a cornerstone too so there's some things

It's just like you can you can envision the jazz competing for a play-in, even a playoff spot in the near future. It's just it's very tough to see them really becoming a team that has a chance to make a deep playoff front unless they either get lucky with a pick or lucky in the lottery. We were not on site, obviously, for that Jazz Spurs game, but I wouldn't say it's the best look for Victor Wenbuniamma to go from banging the drum after, beaten thunder to not talk in after their eight game winning streak ends. By the way, so. I will say this. I do think banging the drum is pretty cool. So, um, I think bang of the drum is very cool.

So just, uh, in case people didn't see it. So the, uh, you know, more and more teams are developing, and they have for years, but are developing these sort of, you know, fanatical sections. Wimby developed a section of it. The Spurs thing is next level. And that's all from Victor doing it. Yeah. And Victor, you know, this is a European thing, you know, we see in soccer, proper football.

And, you know, Victor is, you know, he works with them. And so he's developed this postgame. He was the judge for the tryouts for the group. I forgot about that. Yeah, he was. I mean, it's all his idea. It's a very cool thing. So after, you know, in the same spirit as lighting of the beam.

It's the same concept. something to rally around when you win. You know, bring out a drum and, you know, match it with clapping. And it is really cool to have your franchise player engage with your fans. And I will say this, that from his rookie season, Victor really embraced the crowd in San Antonio, wanted to cultivate it. I was at a game in his second year where they beat the, I think they beat the Knicks in overtime. It was a tremendous game. Jalen Brunson hit.

scored 60. Victor had 40 and 20. It was an amazing game. By the way, my son was at that game, too, and now he's going to see Kauai. I don't know if he understands what he's seeing. But anyway, after that game, we grabbed the mic, and he just talked about the crowd

and everything like that. So he's looked for that a long time. I think it's really cool that he's doing this. But to your point, Bontems. We love all of Victor's talking. Victor's great talking after games all the time. It's just if you're going to be, if you're going to brag after win,

like don't, don't disappear when you lose in Utah. That's all. Being the face of the franchise is a full-time job. And I would even say it's more important for the face of the franchise to be accountable and in that spokesman role after a loss than it is after wins. You know, like, look, and this is something,

this is not unique. A lot of young guys do, you know, these young, very competitive guys, they get pissed off and they lose. It was a bad loss for them. they'd been rolled and they, you know, they... It's not the end of the world. It's just, you know, it was the classic letdown type of game, whatever.

But, you know, Scott Tom and the former Maths PR guy came to an agreement with Luca when this was something Luke would do is he get mad, he'd blow the media off after losses. And the agreement was, hey, you know, there can be some times where you don't talk post game, you know, but it's got to be after a win when you weren't like the main character of the game. After losses, you've got to be there every single time. because you're the guy who everybody wants to hear from. You're the guy who is supposed, you know, for better or for worse, the face of the franchise sets the tone for everybody else. So I don't think it's the end of the world. I did think it was a bad look,

and hopefully it's something that Wimby can learn from. Because, like, you can't do that. Well, I promise you this. That's the post-game access police right there. Exactly. But, like, after every thunder loss, unless Shea is in street clothes, he's going to be talking.

And by the way, She was sitting there. She sat there after they lost three in a row to the spurs and said they're better than us. Like, you know, like. Yeah. And look, LeBron is no longer. LeBron's no longer the face of the franchise for the Lakers, but he's freaking LeBron James. So him, him blown off media dead than I was a terrible look. Well, that's fine.

That's fine. Guess what? You're still on a max contract. You're still LeBron James. No, I understand. When the Lakers lose for him to duck out the back doors a bad look to. None of it's a character assassination. but it's just, you know,

it's just, if we're going to praise Victor all the time, which we do, deservedly so, like, does that, it's worth pointing out, it wasn't great. That's all.

Yeah. More hoop collective podcast after this. I will say this, like with every Utah win, the stage gets more set for how extreme the jazz will go or willing to go. How extreme the jazz players are willing to,

because, you know, like, Lowry Markinen can push back if they're deactivating him for not real reasons if he wants. And whether the league does anything. The league hit the jazz last year with a fine. It's just, it's on center stage right now.

What happens with the jazz? But again, listen, we're talking about this right after they beat the pistons and the spurs in a back-to-back. Yeah. So. Well, and one thing to consider, too, is like, you know, two of the teams behind them in the standings are the Mavericks who've been playing much better. And we'll see how long AD is out. but if AD isn't traded and AD plays the rest of the year, like Dow's probably going to be better than them.

And look, this game isn't over. Maybe I'll rue these words, but the Clippers are up, 18, like eight to go in the fourth quarter. And Kauai has 51. They're about to have won four in a row. In 32 minutes. They beat 24, 25 in the third quarter. They beat the Rockets the other day.

Like, maybe, I mean, think we're about to talk about the Clippers anyway. You were there, Brian. But like, there's certainly a world where the Clippers somewhat get back on track. there are only a couple losses back of the jazz, and they get ahead of them also, and then the math starts to look.

Well, and the Clippers are obviously motivated to win as many games as possible. There's no benefit in them being bad. That's right. Well, there is. Yeah. So I spent several hours talking to folks

between the Clippers and the Pistons tonight. By the way, the Pistons' second straight year that they have had to be on the West Coast on Christmas without playing on Christmas, which it happens to teams, but two years in a row is kind of tough. And I think one of the other piston staffers told me

that it was several times in the last five years that's happened. Well, last couple days aside, did the Pistons keep playing like they have been the first couple months of the season? They might be playing on Christmas next season. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, that's true. And, yeah, they're in the process of maybe losing another game here.

But Christmas for the Pistons was spent in Salt Lake City. They had the choice of Sacramento, staying in Sacramento, are going to Salt Lake and the team went to Salt Lake. An enviable choice. They had two days off and some of the players

did take some time and go someplace else. But the bulk of the team was toasted Christmas. A lot of their families came. By the way, speaking of families,

a lot of families are on the road right now and we mentioned the Nets. Joyne Frenandez's birthday was I think Saturday, and the Nets and his family was there, and his kids surprised him with the cake after shoot-around, and the whole team sang,

happy birthday to him in Spanish. So that was scored on. Louisian. Yeah. Dordy's family's around a lot of games. He's got younger kids, and he comes out. He also, like Will, is one of these young head coaches that doesn't just sit in his office all day before the game.

So he comes out to court and says a load of people. His kids are around a lot. So that's pretty, that was pretty cool to see. Yeah. So, the Clippers. So Clippers are on the way of their fourth win.

The Pistons, you know, won't give up because that's the nature of the team. This is going to be an epic jinx when they come back and. It's 19 points with six minutes left. I feel pretty good. I'm looking over here right now. I feel pretty good,

but we'll see. So, okay, so in talking to the Clippers, a few things. One, obviously, Evita Zubats went out with the injury. And so what has happened is Brooke Lopez has gone with the starting line. Now, look, everybody will tell you that Brooke Lopez has pretty much, for the bulk of the season so far, just not been good. But they will also tell you that Brooke Lopez has been an absolute total pro showing up at 8 in the morning on practice days and staying late and doing all of his work. And, you know, it's one thing to say that a guy is a pro.

It's another thing when you're playing terribly and losing minutes and doing it at age 37 and that his work ethic never changed. And so what's ended up happening here is as he's gone into the starting lineup, which is where he's been for 95% of his career. The floor spacing, he's a floor spacer compared to Zubats, who doesn't shoot threes. Zubat says a lot for the team, but the floor spacing has definitely helped James Hardin. Hardin is now operating with a little bit more space to drive, and when he kicks, there's, you know, the floor is stretched a little bit, and the shooters have some more time,

and there are three-point percentages going up, you know. And even, like, tonight Lopez isn't having a great shooting night, but, like, even in the first half, you could tell in the game plan that the Pistons were certainly aware that Lopez just had a nine three-pointer game. He made nine three-pointers the other night in Portland. Pistons were aware of it. You could see them guarding him a little bit.

And that opened up some more isolations for Hardin and for Kauai. Now, look, at the end of the day, Kauai is heating up. And that's probably the biggest reason why they're getting going. Obviously, tonight he's red hot. He's 17 to 24. He's hit 5-3s, but a bunch of, those are from the mid-range.

He's also getting to the foul line. But so their offense is, at the time when it needed it, is getting, is getting that sort of spacing influx. Derek Jones, Jr. is just back from injury, and he should help their defense. And look, it's a small sample size. It's four, it's four games. Obviously, their defense for the first three months of the season was putrid. They went from a top five defensive team to a bottom five defensive team.

and there's accountability for that. There's their lack of athleticism, their inability to get back after turnovers, all that stuff is true. But there has been a, this is what the folks in and around the team say, there has been an improvement in returning to the defensive principles.

They've tried to be better at that end of the court. Now, if they win this game tonight, which it's now a 15-point game, if they win this game tonight, there'll be 10 and 21, okay? There are 51 games left. They acknowledge that a top six seed is probably out of their grasp. But with 50 games left, if they can get health for Kauai and Hardin,

and they can start to get some traction here, they are not at all giving up on this season. And they don't own their pick, so they wouldn't anyway. Sure, there's no benefit to giving up. And look, if they're a playing team, do I think they're going to pull off an upset? No, but hey, they took the nuts. to seven games last year. There's a reason we all thought they were a top six team in the Western Conference.

Like they were a really, really good team last year. I don't know anybody who thought they were going to fall off a cliff like they did for the first, whatever, third of the season. No. And listen, we have seen, as this year has gone on, that age in the NBA right now is not a positive thing generally, right? We've seen younger team, the team the clippers are playing today

is a prime example, right? Like Pistons have been off to a great start, Spurs have been off to a great start, rockets off to a great start. You know, we've seen youth really come to the four this year in a lot of different ways. Thunder's still young. Yeah, right, thunder, obviously.

They're one of the younger teams in the league. But, you know, like youth and athleticism in general, the clippers have not a lot of either. So that is obviously one thing. However, I will go back to another team that Brooke Lopez was on, the 2013-14 Brooklyn Nets, who I covered, who were an example of a team that had a horrendous start like this, looked like things were completely off the rails.

Jason Kidd was going to be fired if they didn't win a game in the city. Tim McMahon is in right now, in Oklahoma City. After they started that season, 10 and 21, on New Year's Eve getting absolutely smacked by the Spurs and could have lost the game by 70. I think they lost it by 28. And Brooke Lopez was out for the season with a broken foot. Things look completely off the rails.

And then they changed some principles around on defense. They started playing Kevin Garnett at center and Paul Pierce at Power Forward. And they closed the season going 34 and 17. They get the 44 wins. They end up making the second round of the playoffs. Now, I am not saying, to be clear, that I think the Clippers are going to go 34 and 17 to close the season and completely turn things around. But to go back to the beginning of the podcast and the conversation around all of these high-price players,

Kwai Leonard is still a tremendous player when he's locked in like this. However, there is not a trade market for Kauai Leonard around the league, I don't think. And I think James Hardin is still a very good player. I believe I voted for him for All-NBA last year. He made the All-Star team, had a great year. I don't think there's a ton of trade interest in James Hardin either. So if you are the Clippers and you don't have your draft pick and you are pot committed to this team. I do think, by the way, on Hardin, I do think there are teams that would trade for him,

but he's not available right now. Well, I don't mean the teams. My point is, teams would have interest in getting James Hardin, but they're not getting back some crazy return for him. So they're not getting back talent-wise. Well, he makes $40 million, and it's just it's hard to execute a trade. That's why I said. You're trading for James Harden because you're trying to make a run in the playoffs,

and it's hard to execute a trade for a guy making $40. It goes back to a little conversation we had at the beginning. So again, if you're the clippers and there's no incentive for you to be bad, like the only thing you can really do is look at your team and say, how can we try to lean into what we have and figure out a way out of this? mess. And we'll see. This is now a thought it was going to be an 11-point game. We'll see this may be really an all-time jinx. But if they

This is going to be a classic. If they do win this game, they'll have won four in a row. They'll have had a couple really impressive wins. Jackson, how many times can we say if they've Well, it's today's NBA, whereas we know there are all sorts of comebacks. But we at least have to we have to extend this podcast until the The game is over or at least decided. Well, and also like...

The Clippers haven't gotten scored in like three minutes. Hey, we haven't talked about Yonnas yet. We still have time. Yes, we do. But the bottom of the West, outside top five, six teams, five, six teams, and exactly murderers row. So the Clippers, even after this insanely bad start they've had, are still only a couple games out of the playing.

Like, they're another good week from being in the top ten. And if they're playing, if they're a night, then they have to beat, say, Memphis and Phoenix to get in the playoffs, the Clippers aren't going to be like, oh, we have no chance to do that. Memphis who lost to Washington tonight, by the way. Yes, with Doug Brooks, by the way, sitting courtside watching because the sons are playing the Wizards on Monday.

At one point, they cut after out of a commercial, and there's Dylan Brooks sitting there baseline watching the game. I was like, what is Dylan Brooks doing? He can talk trash to two teams at once. Yeah. Well, I will say this about the Clippers before we move on. They were, obviously, they are a very old team, but during this stretch, which has been a lot of losing, they have started to play some younger guys, and they have found some guys that they trust putting in their rotation. Jordan Miller, Kobe Sanders, and even their first round draft pick from this last year with Zubach out, Yonik Niederhauser, who was in the G League for a bunch of this year.

You were nervous about that pronunciation. I could see that tensing up as he was going to say it. Come on, I was talking to people about him tonight. There were, that was the... You mispronounced Zubots after you had him on the podcast. Yeah, I was mispronouncing it to his face, like three times. The clippers still haven't scored, like, in now three and a half minutes. We're just killing time here.

Anyway, they've played these younger guys, and, um, I don't know. Hopefully they can stay in the rotation, but that's happened. Okay, you mentioned Janice. So Janus came back. He'd been gone for three, four weeks, dealing with the calf injury. The Bucks had gone two and six without him. They come back. I think they're in 10th or 11th place, you know, on the edge of the play in right now. And he has a great game. Squared 30 points. Chicago had won five in a row. Because all roads lead to 39 wins. He had 27 points until about five seconds to go in the game.

And boy, listen, that captain bothered him when he hit the accelerator at about half. He got a break away with less than 24 seconds where the team ahead, I think they were head by nine or so. Something. The game was over. They were in the spot where the team dribbles the ball outs. Yeah, it was less than 10 seconds. The clippers just hit a three. Everybody relax.

They were in the point where if you are ahead by that, by three or four possessions, you're dribbling the game out. He did not dribble it out. He went to the other end and threw down a hellacious windmill dunk that if you were at the United Center, you probably remembered. It looked like a slam dunk contest dunk. Yeah, it was an awesome dunk. Yeah.

It was the most inspirational stat padding in NBA history. Oh, he just wanted to do it. inspire the troops. Watch me pad my stats, guys, and then watch the other team get mad, and you guys deal with the mess in the middle of the court, I'm going to walk right off the floor

to the locker. That is leadership, baby. God, I was inspired by that. Well, I thought it was interesting that, you know, the Bulls naturally, especially Kobe White, were not cool with it. Regardless of where you are on...

Oh, Vooch was... Vooch was there first. That's right. Yeah. Vooch was the guy who got to him first. The funny thing I thought, now, listen, as a guy, I love Bobby Portis. Okay, I love Bobby Porthas as a guy. I got to know him and his family during the 2023 World Cup.

But Bobby comes running out of the court in full warm-ups, and he is defending Janus. But I got to tell you, if the situation was reversed and somebody did that to the Bucks, Bobby would have been in their face for the other thing. Bobby was just putting what his role is. But look, regardless of where you are on whether you think that you know, you shouldn't score at the end of the game, you know, it's going to be a thing if you do it. Of course.

He knew exactly what he was doing. And then after the game, Janus posted on, posted the dunk, post a photo of the dunk on X and like celebrated it. He explained that he needs to fire up his team and inspire his team, that if they're going to make a run, that he, you know, and he's missed so much time, he just wants to enjoy it. Okay, whatever. Let's read the quote is something else, though.

Yeah, I got it right here. Okay, read it. So he started getting asked a question. He says, do you want to be here if you guys are not going to be able to? No, no, read the quote about the dunk first. Well, it's, okay. I thought you were asking me to read about that. I don't have that one.

And then we'll get to that one. I don't have that one right in front of me. But it was essentially, the essential quote was we're going to, this is going to, here, hold, I got it right here. Okay. Quote, what? We're 11th in the east?

Are we 11th in the east or 12th? 11th? Just got to keep finding our identity. And if that is to get a little bit of scrappy at the end, so be it. We're not the champs. Why should we play the clock out and have respect and fair play? We're fighting for our lives right now. Why should we have fair play?

This is real talk. I've been 13 years in the league. If we keep on losing brother, probably half the team's not going to be here. We're not going to make the playoffs. Like, I really don't care. At the end of the day, I just want. want to be available, be healthy, and help my team win. And if that's what has to happen for them, everybody to wake up and understand

like we're fighting for our eyes and we've got to get our hands dirty, so be it. I think that's an interesting explanation for just deciding to. Everybody follow me. I'm stat patting. The truth just wind up behind me. Here we go. As you said, my favorite part was a picture that was shown of like every guy on both teams at center court arguing and Yonis just walking off.

You know who the best leader in NBA history was? Russell Westbrook for the Thunder because Padden Stats is leadership, basically. Well, at least it wasn't like Mark Williams and Jose Alvarado who had a good old-fashioned fist fight. I think they both landed blows on each other. I think that Jose definitely landed, Jose landed a punch. I think Mark Williams landed a smack.

Yeah. Okay. It was a smack. Yeah, because Williams got A game, Posey Elrado got two games. But then Bon Tempt's the other quote. And this is like, listen, man, again, I have said many times, if Janus wants to ask out of Milwaukee, he has every right in the world to do it. He should be treated as nothing but a legend in Milwaukee.

It's hot. Like the guy, not only will his jersey hang up in the rafters, there should be a statue. There will be. There will be. But for him to let this thing linger literally for years and just the past, of aggressiveness and then act like it's offensive to ask for a status update? Come on, dude. Well, listen, whatever your opinion is of that, right?

Let's get to the crux of the matter. The crux of the matter is, you know, one of the biggest stories in the league over the past month or so has been, will Janice Sedecoupo be a buck on February 6th or not, right? And my belief the whole time has been there will not be some public declaration from Janus or his camp that he will be traded during the season. And it goes to me, we're doing actions over words. And the actions for the past however many years has been, Janice has done everything, but want to go near doing that, right?

So after the game, they win this game. I don't know who asked the question. This is from... Oh, it was the base tones of Jamal Collier. Oh, it was our guy, Jamal. Okay, great. I was reading this from Kurt Helen's write-up of it at a basketball talk. So during his post-game meeting session, Yonis was asked, quote,

do you want to be here if you guys are not going to be able to? And it got cut off. Yonis cut off Jamal then. And then he said this, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. Don't ask me that question. I'm here. It's disrespectful toward my team, myself and my teammates. I wear that jersey every single day.

It's disrespectful towards the organization, my coaching staff, myself, and all the people that work. card for me to come out here and say I don't want to be here. Don't ask me that question. I'm here. I'm putting on the jersey and as long as I'm here, I'm going to give everything I have even in the last second of the game. Now, he did say as long as I'm here so you could say, okay, what does that mean? However, Janus has been very open about this point the whole time and not wanting it to be out there that he has asked out of Milwaukee. Now, to your point, to your point, McMahon, you can say

this, it's crazy the way this has been handled. And the like, am I in, am I out? Whatever has been this like longstanding thing that's hung over the franchise. I get all that. And that kind of commitment is what he expressed in the meeting with the owner that he doesn't remember it happening. Go on.

That's all fine, right? But I think we would all agree the actions of the bucks, again, to go to the pod motto, actions over words, the actions of the bucks, the entire time Janice has been there, especially the past several years when John Horst has been running the team, has been pedal to the floor, we're going to damn the torpedoes, we're going to trade everything we can to get better and try to improve and try to make a run with this guy on the team and try to keep him here, right? And that's still the case.

And that's still the case. And I think unless Janice Dena Kupo in the next five weeks says, get me out of here, I don't want to be here anymore. I think that's going to be what happens. And I think he's going to be on the team on February 6th. And I suspect the bucks are going to improve their roster. And they're going to trade the remaining draft stuff they have and salary. Go try to get better because that's the only thing they've done year after year after

year now for five, six, seven years. And you can say that's like Janus is, it's dumb for Janus to do that. It's dumb for the bucks to do. Whatever you want to say about it doesn't really change to me the reality of the situation, which is unless there is a public declaration of, I want to play somewhere else. It's time for me to go, which he's been very vocal about not wanting to do that. I don't see why this situation is going to be any different six weeks from today than where it is right now, which would be a boring trade deadline.

Wendy's just looking at the clipper score and... No, I mean... The clippers are going to win comfortably. Yeah. That's all fine. I would just say that the bucks have got to start winning because it's, you know, you can make, I mean, you know, there are trades that the bucks could make, you know, there's, I don't want to get aggregated, but there's guys on their rock. We can just say there's trades they can make.

We don't have to. Yeah. There's trades that they can make. They have a draft pick. They've got, they've got some draft assets. They're not, they're not in the tax because of the, the dame load wave and stretch. Like, they, they have full flexibility to do a lot of different stuff. Yeah.

They could add. they could add a piece or two, but if they don't start winning more, because like I said, basically this year, they've been slightly over 500 with Yannis in the lineup and way under 500 without him. And so if you want to believe he's going to play every game

the rest of the way, they've got to demonstrate that they're more than a 500-ish team with them. Well, is being six games under 500 and out of the playing picture, is that failure? Or is that steps to success? Well, I just, the team is not good enough. Now, you know, we can debate about if they are, if they put a couple of pieces of their roster together

and trade for a player of depressed value that, you know, seems like it's a big name. And, you know, does that make him sixth? You know, like, I don't know. But Janus is what the Bucks would argue, right, is in the 18 games he's played, in the 520 minutes he's played. they're plus 10 or plus 9 and a half.

Now, I would argue they're minus 9 and a half when he doesn't play and that swing is indicative of the rest of the roster, the 19 point differential in the negative direction when he's not playing. And I don't think they have the depths to necessarily make a real run in the Eastern Conference. However, their ceiling is getting bounced in the first round. Well, listen, I agree. I have said, I think they should have traded Janus a year and a half ago.

if you were just looking at it from a holistic long-term, what's the best time to maximize his value trade situation, right? But that's not what we're talking about. And if you look at the Eastern Conference right now, the team with the best record of the conference just lost to Utah and the Clippers. They're a team that's never won anything in the playoffs. The Cavs Corp has been...

Detroit lost to the Mavericks recently, too. That's right. Yeah. Cavs Corner is a mess. The Knicks are a top heavy team that if they, you know, if Jalen Bruncey gets hurt, you know, they're in the same boat as anybody else. Like, the Bucks can sit there and look in the mirror and say,

we have the best player in the conference. If we had some stuff, why couldn't we make a run? Now, I don't think they're making a run. But this is what you do when you don't want to trade the best player that's ever played for your team. And you're only going to do it if the guy says, it's time for me to go. Which is why this to me is always led to Yonis plays the season out. And then we get to the real moment of truth this summer when

he's presented with every contract extension he could want and it said to him, what would you like to do? And if he says, I think I'm going to wait. Okay, then you have your answer as to what's going on and then you make a trade. But that point isn't right now unless Yana says it's time to go. And I think this whole situation, as silly as it was with the dunk and everything else, it was another opportunity for him to say anything other than I'm going to be here. and instead he said, don't ask me about being here.

I'm not going to say I'm not going to be here. Well, okay, then where's it going to end? I think it's going to end with him being on the box on February 6th. Well, what's most important is that the Clippers won by 14. They held another opponent under 100 points. They're going to give up 99 points during this four-game win streak. This was the first game of a five-game homestand. The next two games are against the Kings and Jazz.

Kauai, 55 points, 17 for 26. shooting 5 for 10 from 3, 16 for 17 from the line. 11 boards, 2 assists, 5 steals, 3 blocks, 39. I wasn't watching the second half, but with Kauai, because I think Hard went to the line like 10 or 11 times, too. I'm wondering if J.B. had anything to say about some of those. They were combined 27 for, so they were a combined 27 for 28 from the foul line. Derek Jones took first game back from what looked like a rough knee injury.

Thankfully, wasn't too bad. He took one free throw. Looks like he had an A and one. The entire Pistons team was 24 for 28. And that was all the free throws in the game. So there you go. All right. Well, the clip joint is doing well.

All right. That's enough for tonight. All right. Well, everybody look forward to a good New Year's week. Thank you to Devon and Jackson for putting this together. Thank you to McMahon and Bontemps. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you in a couple days.

Adios amigos. Thank you.