Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Biggest Lessons Learned in Early NBA Season

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss some of the biggest lessons learned from the early NBA season including why an Anthony Davis trade will be challenging for Dallas, the MVP to this point, some injury concerns, emerging stars and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening, joining us from New York City.

Tim Bottoms. Hello, everybody. Bontoms is headed down Florida Way on Monday to, uh, it's going to Miami. I'm sure you're going there for Tyler Heroes return. We're going there to take over the Mazz bead from Tim McMahon for one day. That's right. Speaking of the Mavs, joining us from Dallas, Texas, where you had more

fun than you bargained for on Saturday night, Van McMahon. Howdy, partners, Bond Temsy, happy to give it to you. You can have it. Enjoy. Yeah, I'm going to tell you, a Saturday night football season game between

you know, two teams have been struggling this year to put it mildly and it was hard on the eyes but easy on the ears afterward. There's a little bit of drama for us to work with. I ended up working a little bit harder I thought, but these are the kind of stories that I do,

I must admit, I enjoy it. Well, all the extra work that McMahon has been doing on the Mavericks beat, not only has included some overtime games. And so on the group text, we were joking with him because the Grizzlies and Mavs were like coming down towards overtime. And he's like, oh, my God. He's like, I thought that I was going to be an easy, night. A little did he know that right after the game, well, you know why didn't go to overtime,

Clay Thompson missed a potential tying three with 20.6 seconds remaining. And I think that that might have been one of the things that a youngster brought up to him afterwards, a youngster wearing sweats. Right. Well, it started. I don't know when it started, but because I wasn't watching the game, I just saw it started years ago. It started years ago. It started in the 2021 play and continuing in the 2022 playoffs, but then last night. Well, we haven't even said. Just, I mean, in case everybody. Clay Thompson and John Moran for, I'm sure people have figured it out.

But if they happen, that's what I'm talking about. I would not, I would not assume that, Bont Temps. So our audience, I'm giving them, I'm giving our audience credit. Well, it was the weekend. Not everybody was on top of everything. Clay had a couple little brouhawas. Nah, brouhahs a little bit strong. A couple little, you know, confrontations during the game.

The first one, the tall guy, as he called him. referring to Sonti Aldama was on the ground underneath the basket and the paint and Cooper Flagg started to run up the court and he did the old grab the ankle trick and tripped him up Clay

let him know he did not appreciate that and no uncertain terms. The review got upgraded to a Flakeet 1 and on they went and then later in the game Clay Thompson and Vince William Jr. This appeared to just be kind of your general game-related trash talk. They both got teed up.

So Clay was in a couple of little dust-ups during the game. And it was actually, Clay had a season high, 22, made six-threes. Didn't miss the potential time. Well, honestly, forced one up with about 20 seconds left from 29 feet. Missed that. Masluse again. And John Morant wearing sweats made the point. to get some words of discouragement in to Clay Thompson.

Clay didn't want to have any of it. He came back and they had a little chit-chat. At one point, Jha had his finger in Clay's face, security and coaches and whatnot, got involved and got him separated. Then Jah went to congratulate Cam Spencer, who happened to be doing the broadcast interview, the Grizzlies broadcast walkoff interview on the court, and got another little jab at Clay.

tell them who the best shooter on the court was. It wasn't bruff from Golden State, something along those lines. And so, you know, we go in the locker room. Once Clay was ready to chit-chat, he was asked about his exchange with John Moran. And he had some stuff. Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. He was asked by you. And I was just want to say.

No, I didn't ask the original one. All right. I'm going to ask for a 30-second timeout. Bontz, we're going to pretend like McMahon's not here. right now. Okay. McMahon is the rare, one of the rarest of basketball journalists in that he is absolutely fearless in asking questions and has been for many, many years.

And that's not to say that other people are fearful, but like, you know, it takes guts to step forward to a player when you or a coach or an owner. I'm sure whistle to be shocked to know McMahon's not afraid to shoot his mouth off. That's right. Nobody's listen to the pot has ever been able to figure that out. But allow me to add a little bit more nuanced to it. For sure.

Is that McMahon has the like a pitcher. Like you see, McMahon has, you think that he, you know, his attitude on this podcast, you know, he's pure Texan and he sometimes plays a little bit like, you know, the heavy. Sometimes he plays, you know, a little bit of a character. But McMahon can change speeds. McMahon can change speeds, okay? He can bring a fastball and he can throw a change up. He throw a curveball.

And I've seen him do it. By the way, this is one of the things I would always say that I learned over the year about Greg Popovich. Popovich was a complicated interview. But Popovich always reversed what was brought at him. And so I would reverse to Popovich. So if Popovich would come hard, I would come back at him soft. And if Popovich would come soft, I would sometimes come back at him hard because that's what he would do.

Because sometimes if you ask Popovich a hard question that he didn't really want to answer, he would be sarcastic back. And sometimes if you asked him a basic question to establish dominance in the interview, he would come back hard. McMahon has a little bit of that in him too. What is the media ombudsman thing you're pulling here? Nola Weber, who writes for the smoking Cuban, originally. I am praising you and setting up what happened in this interview. No, Lover. Tomson.

Go ahead. No one started it off. A young little fellow started it off. And he basically asked about all three things. And Jha went through the deal with the tall guy, Aldama. I mean, Clay, Clay went through. I'm sorry, Clay, my bad. Clay went through the deal with the tall guy,

Adama, and basically made it clear. He thought that was dirty and referenced without being specific. The dirty shot by Dylan Brooks in the 2022 series that broke Gary Payton's elbow, basically saying, yeah, you know, they do that kind of thing. And then he touched on the Vince Williams Jr. thing basically, you know, whatever, kind of generic in-game trash talk. And then he hit on Jha. Yes.

And let me just say, I don't know, you know, Clay is both a golfer and a fisherman. So I don't know if you want to say that you put it on a T for him or whether you want to say you bait the hook. Well, no, no. With Jha, he said he's a funny guy. He has a lot to say all the time, especially for a guy who rarely takes accountability. And then he was like, you know, but that's for, that's for another time. And then I just followed. And McMahon was like, no, it's going to be for this time.

I followed with a very simple inquiry. And I said, what did I have to say on this occasion? Like I said, nice and soft, Bontemps. You know, I mean, our guy is very good at his job and a very good interviewer, but this was not exactly a hard one to get out. No, I wasn't. Clay wanted to do. Clay won.

Let me, let me do the. Oh, McMahon's great. That's not any criticism of a man. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, let me do the myth building here. You just, yeah, I like the myth building. McMahon's got a grin the size of Texas.

Edit, Bentham's his whole, retort out. McMahon's got a grin the size of Texas right now for people watching on his favorite medium for YouTube as I can see his smiling face. So he's loving it, as he should be. This was not difficult

because Clay, clearly had something to say. That's right. Basically my all I, my, my, my, it was a, uh, an eloquent version of saying, keep going, keep going. And he did. So what, what did you have to say on this occasion? And Clay said, nothing of intelligent depth. Anyway, he says, it was just running his mouth.

And he's been running his mouth for a long time. It's funny to run your mouth when you're on the bench. it's kind of the story of his career so far, just leaving us wanting more. We all want to see him out there and do his best, but it's just been letting a lot of other stuff get in the way of that. We need that in the NBA. We need our best players to be out there.

And when you're a star, it comes with a great responsibility. I hate to see that go to waste. Yeah, that was a devastating quote. Clay said a lot there, and he didn't say one single lie. How many people do you think in the Grizzlies organization read those quotes and were like, this is exactly what needs to be said? I mean, yes.

And I will give you this. Is Clay a bit of a grumpy old man now? Absolutely. Well, Clay has been like this since he was a young, not grumpy old man, too. He has always been a straight shooter. He stepped to LeBron in the 2006. Yeah. But Clay has been a straight shooter from day one.

Right. And if you want to take shots at Clay being grumpy, look, he is older. He has been struggling this year. He did come to Dallas thinking he was going to be competing for championships and is far, far, far away from that. That doesn't. But what Clay also is, is a first ballot hall of famer. He is a four-time champion. And for perennial NDP candidate, most disappointing player candidate, John Morant, to be wearing a freaking Nike sweatsuit and want to yap like a, you. you know, like a chihuahua at Clay Thompson at the end of a game. Like, give me a break, dude. Okay? And so Clay had every right to basically put this guy in his place. But it was more than that. He like, he was like, it's like when your parents would say, I'm not mad at you, I'm disappointed.

Like that's basically what he said. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of history. And we can go back to 21 plan when the Grizzis did eliminate the word. 22 the next year. I know, but this is a different level.

He went up. He took this two different level. What I was going to say with the history thing is the truth of the hit, when you have history like this and there's long term animosity, the most damaging thing you can do in a situation like this is do what Clay did, which is tell the truth. Because there's no arguing with anything he said at all, any of it. And Clay, the guy doesn't play. And when he does play, he's not very good at this point. No. And Clay did mention that he used to really respect the grit and grind era of Grizzlies.

By the way, he's gone from grit and grind to quitting line in Memphis. That's one of the lines he's been waiting to use. The MDP line, the MDP line in that one. He had him lined up for days. Oh, my God. You got on me about the just average is what Joss stands for. And I do, I take that one back because this year's been just abysmal. Um, anyways, by the way, Cam Spencer, you know, Cam Spencer has a good finish to the game.

He's all, he's all, you know, like I wonder what like, I don't know Cam Spencer, you know, but like Cam Spencer is getting this post game interview, you know, he's like, yeah, you know, we, we need a win in the worst way, you know, got this victory, you know, and, and here's Jock coming over, like, talking to the camera, like during Cam's thing, like taking shots of Clay. I got to be, I got to be thinking Cam's going, man, I just want to. I just want to have a Saturday night here. Yeah, and you could tell Cam was like, I don't want to be part of that.

Like, he dapped him up and he was like, and look, it was a win that they desperately needed, that Jop was not a part of, that he made about him, which, you know, and another thing Clay said, after saying how much you respect to the grit and grind grizzlies,

on this one, he said, they just talk a lot. They've always talked a lot and never really backed it up either. So I don't really respect. that. I respect guys who back up the talk with play because talk is cheap. Well, some of the talkers aren't there anymore, but... Right. But, but Jaws always been the primary one. And hey, Jha was an ascending superstar who ever since we find in the West, it has been one disappointment after another, off the court

and on the court. I mean, for Jah to be barking and trying to show up a guy who's a four-time champion, Clay Thompson will win more champions than John might win playoff series in his career. It's four to one championships to playoff series victories right now. Like, I'm sorry, but like John Morant does not have the right to try to show up a guy like Clay Thompson. I guess he has the right. He has the right to make a fool of himself, but that's what you're doing in that situation.

And for John, even be talking about Clay's current stats. on the court? Look at Jaws' numbers this year. The guy's shooting... Our buddy Tom Habistro, our buddy Tom Habistro had the stat, which is, since Clay came back from both

tearing his Achilles and his ACL, he's played in more games to Jock. Yeah. That says all you need to know about the state of two. Well, if, you know, okay, the suspensions are one thing. They are jaw-herting jaw, but whatever. The injuries, you can call it unfortunate,

but even when he's on the floor, When Jaws been on the Florida's year, he's been terrible. And so why are you deciding that when your team pulls out a desperately needed win over a bad Maverx team on a Saturday night that you feel like it's time for you to go taunt a first ballot Hall of Famer? Who's that helping? Well, it was an enjoyable evening after that. For us. Yeah.

All right. Well, on Friday, Bon Temps had an interesting story where he talked to folks around the league. And what would you say? This was the one thing that you sort of got one sentence about all 30 teams based on your conversation. Yeah, one lesson I've learned about each of the 30 teams in the league over the first month of the season. And you know it wasn't one sentence. Bomb Temps is incapable of doing one teams at a time. One sentence would have been a lot easier.

I was encouraged to not worry about length. So he didn't. I wrote plenty. It was a couple that you have here that, you know, the one you had on Memphis, by the way, was the lesson after one month is that John Morant isn't the same player. And, you know, he's got this calf injury. Well, the stat on that that I think is very telling is every single year of Jaws career, he has shot less of a lower percentage of his shots at the rim every single year from his first year till now.

It was 33% his rookie year. It's down to 15% now. And by the way, he's shooting 17% from 3. So, like, that's just not a very good player. And what's probably going to be a theme of the pod, there's been a lot of discussion about what's John Morant's future. Why is anyone rushing to trade for John Moran? Like, to me, there's little reasons. to. You're talking about a guy who is owed

a bunch of money the next couple of years, has hurt a lot, and is a formerly explosive guard who's not that explosive who can't shoot. Set aside the rest of it, that's not a very appealing player to go trade for. There's been no improvement on the jump shot. There's just been an increasing reliance on it.

And that's why I'm having fun with the just average, just abysible stuff. Seriously, if he's not an elite pain attacker, he's not a difference maker and a positive. direction. He was 36% from the field this season.

He was a dominant force because he was as good as any guard in the league at attacking the cracks of a defense, getting in the paint, and just making things happen. Whether it was attacking the pain and spraying out or attacking the pain and going up and finishing.

He used to be the best in the league at that, and it's something he doesn't. He has said to himself. He doesn't want to do it anymore. Oh, I get hurt. Well, okay, if you're going to go out there being worried about getting hurt, like, you're on a match contract. That's a terrible contract then. Well, the Grizzlies, I should say, have won two in a row because last week before they went to Dallas, they beat the Kings at home by 41. And John was obviously out for that game, as was Jaron Jackson. Um, the Kings,

who's also out in Dallas. We'll see how Memphis, we'll see how Memphis does Monday at home against, uh, Denver. Yeah. So the Kings, uh, had lost, I think eight in a row. Um,

they come back and win, uh, Saturday, uh, at home, they finally came home and beat the Denver Nuggets in a, I guess, a get back game for,

um, for, well, the game was in, the game was in Denver, but it was, It was the second night of a back-to-back for the Nuggets without Aaron Gorton. And Christian Brown and both of those guys are going to be up for a while.

The Nuggets have some serious challenges. Yeah, we'll talk about the Nuggets in a second. Yeah. So I will say that, you know, your line on the Kings here, Bontemps was less than after one month. It's time to start over. And so the Kings did come back and win on Saturday in Denver. that finished this five-game road trip, which has been, it was rough for them. And it was, you call it a Denver, a, you know, a comeback or a return game for Russell Westbrook.

He had a great game. He had a 21 points and 11 assists. He was. He was also minus 13 and 30 minutes in a game. They won by five. That's true. All the way around. Yeah.

He had a, you know, he could claim victory. No, he certainly could. No question. And he did. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. But the Kings, it's just going so poorly there. You know, they're four and 13, I believe. And, you know, Sabonis has got a meniscus injury, which, guys, are we bringing DeModis Sabonis back?

I mean, they said three to four weeks, but what are we doing here? Also, can you trade him if, while he's hurt? heard, you know? I mean, again, let's, I mean, could you trade him if he's not hurt? I think the answer's no. And when he asked you, can they trade Zach Levine? Well, how does Zach Levine end up in Sacramento? After a year and a half of the Bulls trying very hard to trade him, Sacramento finally was

the team that was willing to make a deal for him. You know, DeRos and he was to make weight. Levine was the make weight with a couple of first round picks in a Deeran Fox trade. So it was really, yeah, yeah, we'll get in Zach Levine with multiple first round picks. And like, that's the return for Deer and Fox, which I think in a vacuum, if they were making a Deer and Fox trade anywhere, it was a fine return. But to your point, man, what, there's not a market to turn around and turn Zach Levine into stuff. There's no market to turn de Monisabonis into stuff. There's not much of a market to turn Demard de Rosen into stuff.

Like they are just stuck. DeRosen has, he makes $25 million and he's non-guaranteed. next year. That's more of a tradable contract than Levine. It's more tradable than those guys making the money that they're making. But I still would argue that there's a pretty limited market for DeMar's services. I would agree, but it's an easier trade. Zach Levine has a $49 million player option for next year. Yeah.

That's just a tough sell. And Subonis, for quite a few years was on a contract where he was outperforming. He was making the All-Star team several times on a sub-max contract. Well, when the Kings renegotiated and extended his contract two years ago, you know, when you talk to, you know, GMs and stuff, they're like, yeah, you know, Sabonis is a really good player, but he's not, he's not on a good contract anymore. Like, in fact, I was talking to a GM the other day and he's like, he's like, you media people.

I see you guys think of these, you know, he's like, you talk about these guys with contracts, like they're on their old contracts. They, they, you know, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to say. I'm not going to say any more of that. But he cited Sabonis as a classic example. He's like, yeah, he's a fine player. I'm sure Lowry Marketing was part of that discussion also, which I would guess is the other player that's part of that.

And look, I think one thing that I think the fans have not, and I don't know how much the sport has caught up with, is guys making a lot of money, like north of $40 million, are going to be really hard to trade. And just in general, the market for those guys is not what it, what it is when you look at the names on the back of the jersey. I would point to the Kevin Durant trade, where Kevin Durant got traded for two.

Dylan Brooks is a starter. I think you can argue whether Jalen Green's a starter. It's a toxic negative slash toxic contract, and they got a lottery pick. Carl Towns got traded for two better players and Dante Divencenzzo and Julius Randall and a worse pick. Yeah. Like that's sort of what.

Even Jimmy Butler. And now, the point is, I think the point there is it's not that guys on those big contracts won't get traded, but unless it is a Janus, I would

say a Luca, but they didn't get that much of it. Yes. Well, there's a short list of guys. They at least got an all, I got a frontline all-star. I mean, he's been injured, but I mean, my point is there's a short look at the guys that would get the kind of what we've been trained to recognize as the superstar trade return.

but I think the KD is much more like when the Mavericks trade Anthony Davis a KD from the Sun's type of return is a reasonable you can draw a line of demarcation after McHale Bridges right like in the era of four firsts for Rudy Gobert and three firsts and players for Donovan Mitchell I would even back up because there's a very significant difference in the McHale Bridges trade he was making $20 million dollars. Like the guys, the line of demarcation here is expensive veteran star players, guys who are big-name players who you think, oh, Anthony Davis is a prime example. We're going to talk about it later. But like, you hear Anthony Davis. He just got traded for Luca Dachich.

There's all this. And man was the first report. The Mavericks are looking at the possibility of trading Anthony Davis. I talked about this in the summertime. They have to trade Anthony Davis, in my opinion. They have to get out of this money. He's owned $54 million this year. He's owned $58 million next year. He's on the following year. They have to move on from him. However, a guy making that much money, even Anthony Davis, who is still a very good player, has a very limited market of teams that are going to be able to take him, let alone give you back any value. And that's where it's going to be difficult for the Mavericks to make a trade. But I do think that makes this more interesting for the league because if his price is not that quote unquote high, it brings contenders into the market for him.

I would disagree with that. I would, uh-uh. Because, no, I agree with that. Said as much on the hit YouTube show, Howdy Partners last week with Mike McSie right. Okay. But seriously, like Anthony Day, it's always a big game. Contenders can't, but contenders can't take on that money. That's the problem.

How do you define contender in the Eastern Conference? I think we can get in the semantics of that. But there are a handful of Eastern Conference teams that I can talk myself into in the right deal, Anthony Davis being a potential difference maker in terms of them being able to make a run out of the Eastern Conference. Okay, so Detroit's the obvious one. Who else would you put in that group? I could talk myself into Atlanta. I could easily talk.

I don't see Atlanta doing Atlanta I don't see Atlanta taking on that kind of number for the next two years and going way into the tax for Anthony Davis I don't especially where they could potentially have the number one pick in the draft coming next year which is going to be another By the way how you guys are paying attention to Derek Queen? Derek Queen's a very talented player. Hey how about to talent player and the Pelicans keep on losing ballgame. They do. And they like him a lot in Atlanta, but they didn't like him at the end of the game the other night. They like him because he's, you know, that trade is going to deliver a high lottery pick. They didn't like him with like 15 seconds left as the hawks are drilling out the clock, sneaking him from behind, stealing it, going coast to coast for a dunk.

That was amazing. It was also a little post game brouhaha there. All right. What about your role in Toronto Raptors? You know, what about the Miami? I'm just saying I could tell all the heat. All right. Hold on.

Hold on. I will address one of those if you want. Hold on. Bond temps less than after one month, Chicago Bulls, they could be a potential trade destination. That's right. Well, listen, here's what I would say. If you're the Bulls, like the kind of deal that I think would make some sense for Anthony Davis is if you're the Bulls, if you could get Anthony Davis for expiring money and getting rid of Patrick Williams with,

your pick, if you're going to be a playoff team, I can understand doing that trade. I'm just saying, like, they... I think the Macs have to push for a better deal than that. Well, they could push for it, but I, I'm not sure. Like Miami, for example, I don't, I don't know if Miami is taking on

Anthony Davis in two years is $63 million. Well, and again, Toronto, We don't know, and the league is not, from the reporting I've seen, the league has not come down on one side or another. Can Miami trade Terry Rozier's contract? As far as I know, I'm going to be a clover into a deal. Right. But again, like. I do not believe there's been an official edict on that.

Yeah, I don't think there's clarity on that. But again, like, I would say, I would say you should know, I mean, you shouldn't. I think he's supposed to do in court on Monday. I think those guys are supposed to do on court in the next week. week. You should know that there's some strings that come attached with trading for a guy under federal indictment. I just want to say, not if you wave the fence going and never steps foot in your walker room. Okay. Well, I'm just saying it is an expiring contract. It is an interesting situation. But like, again, like Toronto, for example, right? Toronto could give you some combination of

Emmanuel quickly and RJ Barrett and Yaquip Purdle. But again, if you're Dallas and you're looking at being right now, team that's going to be costing you in your $400 million next year, whatever Anthony Davis trade you make has to save you a lot of money next year. A trade with Toronto is only bringing you back as much or more money, and then you're stuck in the same situation without Anthony Davis. The players aren't as good. Yes. An AD trade, you've got, if you're the Mavericks, a good AD trade provides some significant financial relief next year. That's where you're talking about expiring contracts and something that can be a value moving forward in the Cooper Flag era. Preferably multiple picks, that's probably going to be tough, picking a swap,

and at least a young player who, you know, you can see as a rotation player long term. That, to me, is the ideal Anthony Davis deal. And it's not going to be something that excites people, but that's the kind of business the matter, which will be, I believe, looking to do. Yeah, I mean, that's, and that I think is exactly the kind of trade that's realistic in some form. But again, this is a guy that just got traded for Luca Donchich. Like, that's the problem is the idea is currently unemployed and, you know, no, I get it. Screwed that up.

I get it. But like, the idea of trading Anthony Davis, like, you said it perfectly earlier, McMahon, The idea of training Anthony Davis has everyone trained to think, well, they're going to get three firsts and two swaps, and they're going to get two good young players, and they're going to get all this stuff. It's not going to – I shouldn't say it's not going to happen because as we keep saying, the Luca trade happened, so sure. It's like the corollary. You always have to add to everything now that something crazy could happen. But you talk to people in the league, there's not a lot of teams that are lining up to take on a 35-year-old Anthony Davis making $63 million. Like, and you have to assume he's going to opt into that deal. So a lot of this is going to be, can Dallas find someone willing to take on the money?

If the answer is yes, then you go to, okay, if they're taking on the money, what are they sending out? And that's where, like, you look at Atlanta, like, Atlanta's done a good job stacking these contracts. They're not, they obviously don't have a deal done with Trey Young yet, who's making less money because they haven't come to an agreement on something to make sense for him. Are they going to take on Anthony Davis, who's making way more than Trey Young will be, to have him on their books for the next two years? I don't think so. Trey Young is a quasi-expiring contract. Yes, but again, it's like Atlanta's, Atlanta's been mindful of their books, I think, as of now. And that's, again, like, 80s making, you know, $10 million more than Trey. Like, it's just that number is so.

big, it's really hard for a lot of teams, especially in season, to take that money on right now. And that's where it's going to be a challenge for any of these big-name players that you think about for the next three months or even going forward into the offseason of beyond. Like, the Kevin Durant trade, I think, was a canary in the coal mine for what you should expect these kinds of deals to look like going forward. And I think it's going to be a much different financial system in the league. And it's going to, I think, take a while for people to really recalibrate that. And this Anthony Davis situation in Dallas, it's like, I mean, the Luca trade just keeps being more painful for Mavericks fans.

But like, whatever the outcome on this 80 thing is eventually, it's not going to be, I wouldn't think, a trade that's going to be a feel-good trade. I've never understood canary in a coal mine. Like, what's the issue there? Because if there was poisonous gas in a coal mine, you would, you send a canary down there. And if the canary dies, it's like, you know, it's an indicator or there's, or you keep a canary down. If the canary dies, it's an indication that there's something bad about to happen. Why the canary?

I don't know. They used the canary. They use the canary. They use the canary. Not necessarily a coal mine, but a mine in general. I thought the canary might be the messenger, but no, poor canary is a sacrificial. It's like the, you know, it's like the beginning of a trend, the canary in the coal mine. Am I saying that correctly, Mr. Sane.

That is correct. For the Miami Heat, you said less than after one month. Last year was no fluke for Norman Powell. She'd point out that Norm, a friend of the pod, had 32 points on Sunday. The Heat won their fourth consecutive game. They are beginning Tyler Hero back on Monday's game against the Mavericks. You know, the heat have been up and down because of the injuries, not just to a hero, but also to Bam at a Bio.

but Eric Spolstra playing a system with sort of the new age system, forget about the pick and rolls and play high tempo. I don't know if they're leading the league in possessions, but if they're not leading it, they're in the top three, playing high speed. And it's designed for a team that doesn't have a ball dominant star, which I don't know if you classify Hero as that. That'll be interesting.

But, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I think it's, I think it'll be a really good fit for him, too. And I, I would say that there's, we've talked a lot about how it's a really good fit for Jaime Hakez, who's had a really, really good year for them off the bench as a six-man contender. But the way he's played early on, it's also a perfect fit for Norm Powell. And like, he's a guy who's, like, you watch the heat play. They're moving the ball.

A guy gets an open shot. have a green light to take it. And if they have a matchup to attack in a straight line drive, they can attack it. And Norm has been a perfect fit for the way they've played and has been awesome. And again, like you go back to the summer, like getting Norm Powell for Kevin Love and Kyle Anderson, like, again, like there wasn't a ton of interest in Norm for a variety of reasons. Um, you know, like combo guard position is, well, he wanted an extension, but also, Also, like, that combo guard position has kind of been a weird spot in terms of finances around the league. And, like, that's not a position that we've seen a lot of guys getting paid a lot out of, which is part of why Norm was available.

But from a talent standpoint, it was a big upgrade. And the way they've shifted their offense, it's been an absolutely seamless fit. And he has been flat out awesome. Dude, his production is ridiculous. He, in barely 30 minutes a game, 30 and a half a minute's a game, he's average and a half a minute's a 25.4 points with a true shooting percentage of 65.8. Completely insane. They are the fastest-paced team in the league by over two possessions per game.

This is a system designed to play fast. So, you know, you're going to keep the minutes down, but they're playing fast. And they are attacking. And he is perfect fitting into that. And he shoots seven-threes a game at 46%. I mean, he's just been, he's been awesome. That's why with Bam at a bio out for a chunk of time and Tyler Hero not playing at all, these guys are 11 and 6.

Like a lot of it, I mean, obviously they've had a lot of guys play well, but a lot of it comes out at Norby and flat out awesome and picking up that scoring load for them. Well, these guys have been out and, you know, now they can have him and Tyler Hero out there together. And I think it's got a chance to be really fun to watch. Okay. This one got McMahon's, you know, McMahon's eyebrows. someone's told the story. You know, on the pod, you can't always tell, but in person you can tell.

Yeah. What you learned, or one lesson after one month, Janus Tena Kumpo has been the NBA's MVP. He's been a legitimate candidate, but like how you can just definitively say Janus has been the MVP is like there's a lot of guys that are doing insane things, including the guy who won it last year, who never plays in the fourth quarter, is averaging 30 some odd points per game for a team that's lost a game one singular game. They went to 17 and 1 today. They beat the Blazers by like 27. They are 11, 6, and 1.

11 times they've won when Shea sat out the fourth quarter, six times they won when he actually had to play in the fourth quarter, and one time they lost. That's what they're, we should define their record by, those columns now. Didn't their loss? Wasn't that on the second night of a back-to-back? Yeah. To Sacramento. No, it was to Portland.

They smoked tonight. And the first night of that back-to-back, I saw them the night before when they beat the clippers to go to eight-no, which is the best starting OKC chapter of the franchise history. But it was one of those, I don't want a bad-mouthed peacock, but the eight o'clock Pacific tips, oh, man, those are those are. that's too much. 8 o'clock.

So it was a late tip. Says the guy in the Central Times off. It's 10 o'clock. Yes, it's an hour later in the Eastern Times. So it's an hour later in the Eastern Times. Anyways, that's all. So not only was it a back-to-back, but it was a back-to-back. They didn't leave the arena until after midnight.

Then they had to get on a plane and go up to Portland. Can I give you an E.J. Mitchell update just while we're here? Wait, there's one thing about one loss. They led by 22, and Portland, tracked him down and won by a bucket. Just in case you wanted to know how AJ Mitchell did on Sunday, you know, Shea had 37 points and 30 minutes, you know, 13 of 18, 9 of 9 at the line, you know, plus 27.

A.J. Mitchell, he played 24 minutes. He was 8 of 8 from the field, 2 of 2 from 3, 20 points, plus 24 and 24 minutes. Just thought I'd brief you on that little scenario. Yeah. And look, I'm not saying, the honest. Like, by the way, why wasn't the lesson after one month on the Thunder? 70 wins is in play.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How about how A.J. Mitchell should be, uh, maybe I was wrong with Zubotch. Maybe I should have talked about A.J. Mitchell for all-emba. I was going to say, if you're talking about the list of MVP cans, we've got to get A.J. Mitchell on there. Hey, he's going to be an all-star weekend. As a sophomore game. Or sure.

You would think so. Luke is averaging roughly 35, 9, 9, and, for a team that's winning. Shea, 32 points and 33 minutes. The other numbers are great for 17 and 1 team. Woker is all he's, all he's doing is going for 30, 13, and 11 for a 12. All these guys are really awesome. I mean, what's the name of the award?

What's the name of the award? The name of the award is not the N-R-S-PC. The name is the most valuable player. And if you take, I'm not, again, all these guys are awesome. We'll see who wins the award. As I said in the story, when you take Janus off the court, the bucks go from having the best offense in the league to the worst offense in the league. And they go from being plus like eight to minus 12. Look at their record.

Forget about advanced stats. They're out of the playoffs right now. And you look in the two games they played without. Yes, they're in 11th. to go back to our conversation the other day about the depth of the Eastern Conference. They're 500. They're out of the play and out of the playing currently in the East.

And if you look at their roster, the last two games they played without them, they shot 40% from three in both games. They lost to a Philly team with half their team out in overtime, albeit Tyrese max, they had to have a huge game. But their offensive rating while shooting 40% from the field was 105, which is, again, about dead last in the league. And then they got annihilated by the Pistons.

and then they got annihilated by the Pistons in their last game, and they again shot a bunch of threes and hit 40% over 40% of their threes. Throw Cade Cunningham and the MVP conversation. Look, dude, don't do the straw poll, because the MVP is just net rating squa. Well, well, I think, again, you can quibble with the headline of the lesson,

but the lesson learned about the Bucks was if Yannis isn't on the court, they're one of the worst teams in the league. It took me a month of the season to figure that out. Well, I'm just saying, if you look at how they've played out, like, I'm sure the Bucks came into the season arguing they had ways to prop their team up around Yonis and they were going to be okay when he didn't play. But like, I didn't think they were going to be that good when he didn't play.

And it's been backed up by how it's looked on the court, where Yonis has been unbelievable. And when he's played, they've been very good. And when he hasn't played, they've been very bad. And now he's going to be out for a while. and it's probably going to keep looking very bad because I would say outside of probably Brooklyn and Washington, I'm not sure there's another team I'd take over them without Janus because the rest of the roster is pretty rough.

You take the pelicans over them? I mean, the problem with the Bucs is the Bucs have, I would actually probably say the Pelicans would win only because the Bucs don't have, the Bucs have Ryan Rollins who can create shots for other guys somewhat, and they don't really have anybody else at the, the moment. Like, I mean, give the ball to Kuzma, but like, it's just not, they have a lot of good shooters and they've hit shots in these games and they might be able to steal some wins,

hitting threes. But it's just, the team is built to have Janus at the middle of it with shooters around them. If you take Janus away, it's just there really is no plan B. Well, I understand your case, but I don't think he's the, I know. That's fine. There was not just. The nuggets are only 19.9 points worse per 100 possessions. Yeah, sure. Well, let's talk about the nuggets. So less than after one month, late season, Jamal Murray has arrived early, which this came out Friday.

Well, yeah. Before we knew that Aaron Gordon had a grade two hamstring strain, which four to six weeks before being reevaluated. Man. And you're talking two months plus. Well, and Christian Brown is out for six. weeks or so, like the nuggets are really, and they, you know, they, they, they improve their depth, but, you know, they're not that deep. I mean, they're starting Spencer Jones right now. Well, Peyton Watson. He's been pretty interesting, by the way, Spencer. Okay. I don't want,

fine. Pretty interesting is your 10th man is a good place for him. Just saying. All right. Well, Peyton Watson, who didn't get a contract extension, first round pick from three years ago, didn't get a contract extension, switched agencies, is now going to be getting a lot more minutes. And so far this year, he's shooting 51% overall, not shooting a ton of threes. And that's sort of the thing with him is he doesn't shoot a ton of threes, but his percentage is pretty good. He's rebounding better than he has ever in his career. Again, it's not great. He's not going to be Aaron Gordon. He's not going to have that lob threat that Aaron Gordon is. And he's not going to but he is a 6-8, 3-and-D player who now, with money on the line is going to get for the next one to two months a lot more playing time.

This could be good, this could be bad. He's a 6-8, you hope, 3-and-D player. Definitely he's a good defensive player who, let's see if he's a 3-&D player. The 3 is questionable. He's a nice reserve who is probably going to be above his head starting. And maybe you're right. It's a project who's going to be above his head starting. Maybe you're right.

And maybe this is a moment for him. Well, I don't think, I mean, this is to me, the conversation to be had is that Jamal Murray has had the best start of his career by a mile. If you look at his monthly splits over the course of his career, his opening month has been pretty rough. And he's played like anybody who's talked to anybody. around the league or watched for years. It's not like, it's easy to see.

Chmall plays his way into the season. And he showed up this year. Is what you're saying. Well, yes, but he showed up this year ready to go. And he's been awesome. And with no Christian Brown for weeks, months probably, at least with the initial timeline we were given. And again, you say Aaron Gourdes getting reevaluated with a hamstring injury in four to six weeks.

That's a eight to 12 week injury, probably. So you're talking two, three months until he's really ready to go. So you're. You like, yes, they need Peyton Watson to play. Then he needs Spencer Jones to play. Then he need Cam Johnson to play better. He finally has had a couple of good games lately after a really rough start. He's got to be a lot better.

But they need Jamal Murray to keep playing like this. Jamal Murray keeps playing like this with Yokic playing out of his mind. They can keep up. But if they have any issue with that, it's a, they're going to be struggled. To this point, career high and scoring, career high and assists. And a lot of that's because his numbers, like if you go look at his monthly splits, for his career, they tend to go up as the season goes along, month by month by month. And this year, he came in at like the end of the season numbers.

So even if he just stays flat all the way through, it's going to be very important for Denver because they've gotten off to a really good start. And, you know, staying up there in two or three in the West is imperative because it means you avoid playing the juggernaut until the conference finds. Well, and Joker, the two-man game between Joker and Jamal Murray, is definitely good enough to prop them up. The problem here, like, you're going to, you're going to be asking Joker to be a superhero night at and night out. You're not going to be able to manage his minutes the way that you wanted to.

The good news is for the next month, they do have a pretty soft stretch of schedule. I'm looking at it right now. It's like Memphis, the spurs who have their own injury issues, sons, Mavs, Pacers, Paisers, Hawks, Hornets. You know, there's another Utah. That's a lot of wins. While it's on there. You know, so there's like it, you know, it's a soft next month. But the biggest concern is wearing Joker down.

Right. Which they did last year. They had to shut Joker down for a while. That was the whole point was to the part of the part of what's been so impressive about his season, which is the jaw dropping as we've talked about is his, his minutes are down. His production is up with his minutes down. That's, you know, related. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. What you said about the Lakers on here, your Lakers less than after one month was personified tonight, Sunday night, Bontemps.

They're good, but how good. So they won their fourth consecutive game on Sunday night. They also were up by 11 against the jazz and had in the last three minutes and had to survive Kiante George, a three-pointer in the air at the buzzer, which, mist and the and the and the and the and the lacers squeak out of salt lake with a two point win. They, I think all things considered, it's remarkable that they're 12 and 4 and after tonight they are now eight and two on the road, which is just awesome in the Western Conference and that you know, they had an East Coast road trip already. But that is getting it done.

But the question is, like, you look at tonight's game, you know, it's a win, but, you know, this is what's kind of happened with the Lakers. Their defense isn't that impressive. Their advanced stats aren't that impressive. So, like, they have to be thrilled with their positioning, but I'm not so sure how much we believe in their, you know, that they're going to stay on this level. Well, we have to find out, really, not even as, find out how much. of an impact LeBron can make once he gets in shape. Like tonight, his counting numbers are okay, you know, 17 points, six rebounds, eight assists, didn't shoot it great.

But minus 14 in the box score, and I can tell you, LeBron is playing transition defense like most dudes his age do, which is occasionally. Like, you know, he talked about what he tell Mac 10 and the crew, something about getting his, he's got his baby lungs now, he's got his, get his grown man lungs. Like, seriously, there are many positions where he's not, not always not against the opposite. I think his lungs are too old and he needs to be younger, not younger, it needs them be older. Now, whatever it is, he ain't crossing half court on a lot of defensive possessions. And we'll see. He's obviously, he wasn't able to train while he'd be doing the sciatica like

he usually does. He's got to get in shape and then we'll find out. Well, and to your point about their schedule. Like, they are winning these road games, which is important. However, here are their road games. At Sacramento, at Minnesota, that was the Reeves game where you hit the game winner, not Luca. In your faith. At Memphis.

At Memphis. At Portland. At Atlanta, which was the game they got, they lost by 20. Nobody played for Atlanta. Yes, and they lost by 20. At Charlotte. And the Thunder game, obviously, which didn't go great. And then at New Orleans, at Milwaukee with no Janus, and

Utah. So, listen, they're winning the games. Again, it goes back to the same thing. They have won a lot of games and they've beaten a lot of teams they should beat. Like, that sounds like an insult, but it's not an insult. When you're going through the 82 game schedule, like a very important thing to do is to win the games you're supposed to win and not lose a game insult like City or lose to, like the Warriors lost to the Pacers on the road. They lost to the Milwaukee Bucks without Janice on the road. They've had a lot of really disappointing losses this year.

That's why they're 500. The Lakers have not had those losses. The Lakers are 12 and 4. That's the difference is taking care of business in those games. And Austin Reeves has been great. Luke has been great. As you said, McMahon, let's see where LeBron is at. But like, are the Lakers really a top four team in the West?

Are they really up there with Denver and Houston? I don't think anybody's with Oklahoma City, or are they really more like the fifth or sixth or seventh-ish team in the West? And, you know, like, like you said, they're around 15th in offense, they're around 15th in defense, they're around 15th in that rating. They're like all the numbers scream.

They're kind of an average team. Yeah. But they've also had injuries, and they've also won a lot of games they should win. So, you know, they're probably going to be in the cup, assuming they could beat the Clippers on Tuesday, into the Cup playoffs. We'll see what happens there.

But, you know, as always with the Lakers, once you get past the new year, the schedule starts to ramp up and they start to play a lot more games. I know LeBron's F500K. Yes. So, but after New Year is when the Lakers start to have their schedule go up and they start to play a lot of the TV games. And every year, the schedule's backloaded for them.

So we'll find out more about them. But I certainly think when you look at where, they're at to be 12 and 4 with the injuries they've had and sort of the up and down nature of their season, whatever the schedule, you have to look at it as a big win. And now we'll start to see over the next month, you know, just what level they are. I do not expect you guys to guess this player. I'm just going to... Oh, I'm good at these. I know you are, but this is a pretty high standard. 22 points a game, 10 rebounds, seven assists, just under two steals, 57% from the field, 41% from 3.

18%. Who? Jalen Johnson. Jalen Johnson is correct. Dude. Less than after one month, there might be a blueprint for the post-Trey Young era. Less than after one month, I'm damn good at these things.

I mean, that is actually pretty good. That was a pretty, you know, that was... I mean, there's not too many guys going 22, 10, and 7. And the key one is... And the key one is... there is shooting 57% because Jalen Johnson is getting a lot of dunks. There was a play in the game against New Orleans where he blocked a shot at the rim, went coast to coast, and yammed it at the other end.

And like, he is a 6-9 hyper-athletic guy. He slipped in the draft to 19 or 20, wherever Atlanta took him, ended up leaving Duke early the year he came out of the draft. Hawks got him on what, like, not much of a spoiler alert, but when I do the best contract team story later this year. Jalen Johnson at $30 million a year at a power forward spot where there are not a lot of obvious candidates around the league. I suspect he will be the starter at that position because he looks like an All-Star.

And with Trey out, he's got the ball in his hands all the time. And they're big and physical everywhere. Their defense is really good. And, you know, we'll see what happens with Trey going forward and whether they get a deal done with him or not. But you can see a vision for what the Hawks can be if he's not. which is long, athletic, and, you know, a really good top five level defensive team with an All-Star 6-9 wing with the ball in his hands making plays and score. Well, and we talk about, like, we mentioned Amin Thompson's maybe the best athlete in the NBA.

Janet Johnson's guy who was in that conversation. He's that type of athlete. But it's the skill development. And it's still a pretty small sample size, the 41.5 percent three-point shooting. We will see if that holds up. But the playmaker, I'm just going to read you his assist per game numbers throughout the course of his career. Rookie 0.1, you know, barely played. 1.2, 3.6, 5.0. Unfortunately, last season was cut short, but you could really see it starting to develop there. 7.0 this year.

And it's interesting. And, you know, I've kind of been poking around about potential Jot, Trey, lamella ball, you know, what people perceive as their value or what their markets might be should their teams decide. Which other. Yeah, well, perhaps, you know, should their teams decide to go in that direction, you know, just trying to get a feel for it. And something one person said to me is, well, if Atlanta trades Trey, you know, they've got to get a, a ball hanger, a primary ball hanger in return. And, you know, to your point here, Bond Timps,

are you sure about that? Do they? Well, especially with that pick coming from the Pelicans, which could be that ball handler, whether it's Darren Peterson or AJ DeBancetka or, you know, Mikhail Brown from Louisville or, you know, like there's a lot of guys in the top eight or ten in the draft who can handle it quite a bit.

and, you know, are also all big and long and, like, fit into this vision of what this team, in theory, is headed towards. So, I mean, it's been a very interesting thing to watch. And again, their schedule hasn't been extraordinarily difficult either in these games without Trey. You know, if you go through when you look at who they've played over the last few weeks, you know, they're Sacramento, Utah. They lost the Detroit and San Antonio. They beat New Orleans in Charlotte. they lost to Cleveland, they lost to Toronto. So they've been up and down to some degree,

but there is a real, you could see a blueprint and you could see a foundation of what it can be. And it, you know, like you said, it makes the Trey Young conversation an interesting one to monitor to see whether he picks up that option or what his future looks like in Atlanta. Because you can, for the first time, in a long time, see something without him there. All right, the Clippers fell to 5 and 12 on Sunday after losing in Cleveland. The good news was Kauai came back and actually looked pretty good in the 26 minutes he played. He had 20 points hit 3 out of 5 on threes. Zubach kicked the calves on the interior. They were missing Jared Allen in that game.

Zubach had 18 rebounds and went 15 to 22 from the field. look like an All-N-B-A player in this game. I was watching Cavs Corner, and, you know, they were getting dominated by him. Donovan at 37, though. But anyway, the Clippers have had a tough road trip. They're two and four on their seven-game trip. He was to come home. They play at the Lakers to finish the road trip and the Cup game on Tuesday.

On Tuesday. Bont-Temps' lesson after one month is you can get old fast in the NBA. And look, all I'm going to say is one guy broke his hip, but another guy retired a month into the season, which is what Chris Paul is going to do at the conclusion of the year. And, you know, as a quick, you know, note, I just want to say that Chris Paul has had an absolutely amazing career. This is, what happens this season is probably going to be forgotten. Yeah. Well, I mean, he's one of the best point cards of all time in a first ballot, inner circle. All the same.

Yeah. And an incredible retirement tour. I wonder if he regrets playing this season because it would have been a pretty damn just because he is

one of the most ruthless competitors I've ever encountered. And it would have been something for him to go out as an 82 game starter last year for a team that he helped lift to at least respectability.

I was going to say and a guy who was pretty good for the spurs too. And, you know, watching the Clippers play, I saw them in Philly the other day, and it was ironic to me to see them playing the Clippers or the Clippers playing the Sixers the other day because they remind me a lot of last year's Sixers team, where they had a lot of veteran players

that they brought in that they thought could, you know, come in and be good for them for last season, and they all got old at the same time. and that's kind of how the clippers feel. I mean, Bradley Beal obviously did not replace Norman Powell in any way, shape, or form like we thought. Chris Paul was very good last year in San Antonio. Like, he was a net positive easily for the Spurs. I thought he was going to be able to come in and give them good minutes behind James Harden

and play 10, 15 minutes a game and, like, be a useful player off the bench. He's been awful. You know, they just across Brooke Lopez. I thought it was a good signing. he has looked very old. They just look very old and very slow. And when you watch the way the league is evolving and how fast the game is

and how all these teams with youth and depth are having success, it just feels like they have gone the other way and it's caught them all at once. And that's without getting into the, you know, all the ups and downs of Kauai and everything off the court and beyond that. We should say, though,

while they have been terrible, James Harden has been unbelievable. He's playing his, I mean, he's not, his efficiency is down from where it was when he was at his peak, but he is, he's playing every night and he's trying as hard as he can. And he's been incredible. I mean, he had 55 on Saturday, one of their five wins, they beat Charlotte on the road on Saturday.

He had 55, he had 27 in the first quarter of that game. Hell, he had a 40-something point triple double against the Mavericks and another one of their wins. I mean, look, he's having to be a superhero for them to beat bad teams. Right, to be competitive at all. Like in Philly the other night, he had a crazy, he had a crazy line. Yeah, the Philly one wasn't great, but he had 37, 7 and 8 the night before in a loss to the, in a loss to Boston. He had 31 at 8 in the loss to Orlando the other day.

He had 35, 10, and 11 in a loss to Atlanta. I mean, he's just put up one giant game after another. and, you know, it's been a rough season for them, but he has been awesome. How about this stat? Most 50-point games in NBA history, okay? Wilts number one, 118. I mean, the dude average 50 in one season. That's ridiculous.

Jordan's number two with 31. James Hardin is now number three. Is he tied with Kobe, or did he break that tie? He tied Kobe. Okay. You know, co-number three with 25. he also one of eight players in NBA history to simultaneously hold multiple franchises single game scoring records, which he now does with the, he set the Clippers record on Saturday, and he holds the rockets as well. This list is fast.

I don't know. Did you guys see this list? Yes. It's a fascinating list. I don't think you'd ever, you'd ever, well, wilt's one of them with the Warriors in 76ers. Hardin's the only guy, Hardin's the only guy to do it with two active franchises.

Okay. Who are the other ones? In other words, they don't necessarily have the record still. Yes. But at one point, we're holding the both. Two other players are active. You want to take a guess of the two other active players. And I will tell you, McMahon, that both of them,

held the record for the same team. LeBron and Kyrie. You got it. He's just kicking ass on this. Well, I mean, that was a pretty easy, like, I'm thinking of, like, damn good scores, and they both play for the- And Donovan happened to score 70 at a game recently, so.

Yeah, plus I knew that Kyrie broke LeBron's record for Cleveland. So that one. That game in San Antonio, which was still probably one of the most amazing games I've ever seen. I would have gone out on a limb and guessed LeBron, regardless of any hints, by the way. So, so Kyrie scored 57.

That was the record that Donovan broke when he had 70 a couple years ago. LeBron scored 56, I think, in his second year in the league. I mean, that was a game in Toronto on Sunday after, on the Sunday afternoon.

Anyway, the others are Jamal Mashburn. One of them was with the Mavericks. I remember he had a 50 piece for the Mavs. Glenn Rice. Kelly Truppucah. Oh, wow. Wouldn't we could have been here all night.

I wouldn't have gotten there. Well, and this last one, I don't, you know, I would say, I would make a Bob Pettit joke here. I'm not even 100%. So I don't know this guy. Spit it out. He's, he's, what's his name? What did you just say?

I said, spit it out. I'm worried about mispronouncing his last name. Spell it. Don Colgis? Cogis. Please spell it because I'm trying to look them up. Is that a K? K-O-J-I-S.

Okay. Hold on. I'll give you the... They don't have a pronunciation thing on basketball reference. I'm kind of embarrassed that I don't know. So his career scoring record was 12 points a game. He was drafted by the Chicago Packers, but never played with him. They play with a bunch of teams that don't exist anymore.

Right. I'm sorry. I just did not know this guy, but he apparently at one time held the Bulls and Rockets scoring records. The San Diego Rockets, a two-time All-Star for the San Diego Rockets is I'm covering. Yes, he played for the Kansas City, Omaha Kings. He played for the Baltimore Bullets. Seattle Superstomics. I'll bet Bob Petty kicked his ass. He did play. Oh, he did play for the Bulls. I think Bob. I think Bob was off the, I think Bob.

might have been off the hold on, no, I'm going to do a little Bob Pet, hold on, keep speaking, I got to fire up against him one time. Anyway, he played one year,

he played one year for the Bulls, and average 10 points a game, and apparently in that year, set their, you know, you're not going to get any Don Coagest cover, coverage like you get here on the hoop collector,

I can tell you. That's right. That's right. So he had a 42-point game in, uh, against in L.A. against the Lakers. The game before he had five points,

the game after he had eight. But he had a 42-point game. It's like the Tony Dock 50-pointer. Amazing. Anyway, that was, I do want to say, Chris Paul, he's second all-time in assists

at a little over 12,500. And I just want to, as, I want to honor John Stockton here. Now, Stockton famously got sort of help from the jazz scores. Having said that, he also played every game for 20 years, basically. That's right. So Chris Paul, who's in his 21st season, I believe, he is in second place.

He's got 500 more assists than Jason Kidd, who was in third, and a thousand more assists than LeBron, who was in fourth. But he is still 3,000 behind John Stockton. He is closer to Oscar Robertson at 9th than he is to John Stockton at one. And meanwhile, he is also second all-time in steals at over 2,700, also just ahead of Jason, of Jason Kidd, who's third. He is 500 behind John Stockton. and he that would be about all the way back to 10th. He's closer to heim Elisha won at 10th than he is to John Stockton at 1.

Yeah, I don't. Those are those are two that I thought for a long time that those two stats, the steals and assists records all time. We're not going to get broken. I also thought that the career blocks record. was not going to get broken because Akeem is 600 ahead of DeKembe and everybody else. But if the young fella in San Antonio can stay on the court, I think he might be able to catch Akeem. Because he's getting like five a game.

Okay. But I've talked to this in the pod before. About five years ago, I did a story on the most breakable NBA records. You know, there's some that are kind of preposterous, such as Chamberlain, average. 48 and a half minutes again. Minutes, yes. But if we're talking about career records, I think Moses Malone's offensive rebounds.

Yes. Moses Malone, combining ABA and NBA, which I think is only fair, he has like 2,700 more than second place, which is artist Gilmore. And how about this, McMahon? and can you tell me the active offensive rebound leader?

It ain't Stephen Adams? It is not. I'm going to guess. Stephen Adams is 42nd. DeAndre Jordan. Andre Jordan is 29th, but not 29th all time, but not the active leader. I'm going to guess it's Andre Drummond. Andre Drummond.

So Andre Drummond. So Moses, so it's just, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's a, it's a stat like so moses malone had 7300 offensive rebounds artist gilmore had 4,800 he's second and so you're talking about like he's 3,000 ahead of charles barclay he's 3,000 ahead of chakiael o'neal he's 3,500 ahead of uh dwight howard through like dwight howard played like what 16 17 years was he had 4,100. Like, he's barely halfway there. So I think that record is, but anyway, this is all his aggression.

Fellas. Bob Pettettett went nine and five in his career against Don Cojus. I believe that's how to pronounce that. And in those 14 games, Petit scored 413 points, including a 52-pointer. Old Don went for 89 in the 14 games. Yeah, he, he, but it tastes up that Don could get hot. He did not have Bob Bettis number. No.

Don could get hot. Clearly. Clearly. I learned who he was today when I saw, when I saw that number. Yeah. He's, he's, oh, no, he passed away a few years back. That's unfortunate. Well, hey.

He passed away in 2021. Yeah. But anyway, uh, so the point about the, about the, about the Clippers is, is that we're honoring historical numbers. We're certainly not honoring modern numbers, which is they got a bunch of guys who are going to be in Springfield

and are hot at the top of all these charts, but they're not helping them in 25, 26 that much, even though I know Hardin is playing well. And you know who they are helping. The damn Oklahoma City Thunder. I know. I mean, my goodness, how many lottery pick,

you get Shay, you get dub, you really need another lottery pick out of that deal. It's worth, it's worth pointing out that as of right now, they are still projected to be ninth in the West and one game back of the Suns and eighth. Well,

and as you said, contrary to what people thought going in, the middle of the West is not good. All right. There are, it appears as eight good teams in the West, seven or eight. Better than Suns, by the way. Better than six.

then, but, you know, I knew we were doing that. We got to give the Suns some credit while we were doing the pod. The Suns, sons with another nice win, beating the, given the Spurs, their first loss since Victor got hurt. You know, it's just they've done a really nice job. They keep stacking up wins. But yeah, like, you know, the Clippers have a chance to still play it out because a lot of these other teams, like, I would say Memphis is better than the Clippers, but I'm not convinced Memphis is going to be trying to be better than the Clippers. and Dallas and Sacramento and a lot of these other teams have their pick and have some incentive to make sure they're not as good as they can be.

Utah's got a wee bit of incentive. Speaking about 15-1 picks. Sure. Utah, New Orleans. I mean, New Orleans just isn't very good. But the point is, like, the Clippers and Sons are the teams down there that have some upside and are motivated to win every game they can. And so if you're gaming it out. the Clippers, at least in theory,

should be able to get into the play in and maybe potentially mitigate some of the embarrassment of that pick. But if James Hardin gets hurt at all, or if Kauai is out of the lineup more, it might not matter. And, you know, I tweeted it the other day in the middle of one of these games. I was waiting for the Internet to break in May.

We get to the draft lottery, and the Thunder wind up with Darren Peterson, or AJ DeBanza or Cameron Boozer or one of these guys with this clipper pick and the world just melts down. By the way, when Chris Paul does retire, we'll close the book on the 2005 draft class, which, you know, was always stories from draft classes,

but that was, you know, the Who's Better, Darren Williams or Chris Paul draft, and Fran Vasquez, got picked as a lottery pick by the magic and the never ever came. And there was that blog for years, the rights to Ricky Sanchez. Ricky Sanchez was drafted, I think. But anyway, beyond all that, beyond all those digressions, I'm getting infamous for, he was the last guy standing in the 2005 draft class by four years.

Nobody else in the 2005 class. The last one standing before him was Lou Williams. So, I mean, that's saying something because, you know, you would not have expected the six-foot guy necessarily to last that long. Yeah. So credit to his competitiveness and he's had an unbelievable career. And I'm glad we'll get to see him go around the circuit one more time. He get fedded, but it's probably not going to be the most enjoyable season in Clipperland. Yeah.

Jackson says that coges is rumored to have invented the alley-oop. Hold on. Don Cogeist, who would have known? Was he Allie and or whooping? I assume he was whooping. I don't know. I should have assumed.

I did not, I'd never known he existed before this. I'd like to try to, a fun little story. I'd like to try to teach some history. You're man to the people. Oh, hold on. Oh, okay. Hey, I'm a little,

This is the Google machine, so I have not checked in his info. But he is sometimes credited with developing the Aleoup. First with the Phillips 66ers, and later the NBA Chicago Bulls, he perfected a play called the Kangaroo Craw or Coges, nicknamed the Kangaroo Kid who catch a pass in the air and dunk it. The Kangaroo Kid, Don Coges. All right, with that, thank you to Jackson for putting up with us. Sorry about that trip to South Bend this weekend, Jackson.

Oh, hey, hey, hey. You had a good time. Oh, speaking of college football, mean green, 10 and 1 might be seen the old mean green in the college football playoff, boys. Oh, that would be interesting. We might have to get together to watch that one. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bonn-Tumps.

Thank you for watching and listening to the Houp Collective. Reminder, Friendsgiving, coming up on Wednesday's podcast. It'll be a long episode. God knows what we're going to have in it. God knows the editing Jackson's going to have to do. But that will be no podcast on Friday. So Friends Giving for your traveling pleasure or displeasure. One thing to caught in really quick at the end because it was a couple days ago.

But shout out to a friend of all of ours, Chris DeMarco, for getting the head coaching job at the New York Liberty over the weekend. Charles reported that, I think, on Friday. Known Chris a long time. Bahamian National Team Coach. Yes. Coach the Hamian National team. He's right-hand man for years, by the way. We started off with Clay.

We're in with Clay's guy. Yep. You know, he's been with the Warriors since 2012. Pre-Steve Kerr was on Mark Jackson's staff and was with Clay and Dremont, Steph and all those guys for the whole run. And it's cool. He's getting a chance to go win a title with a Liberty team that's going to be staffed. That's a heck of a job to get coming out of it.

That's a pretty good job to get. It's a great job. So, excited for Chris. It's going to be awesome. All right. Talk to you later this week. Adios amigos.