Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Biggest Takeaways From NBA Opening Week

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss some of the most interesting results from the NBA’s opening week of action. The guys break down some notable injuries, expectations for Cooper Flagg, some insane scoring outbursts, the future of tanking, if Celtics fans should be worried and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA what you're doing on Sunday evening, almost midnight on the East Coast,

joining us from New York City, Tim Bontas. Hello, everybody. I don't know if you're prepared on your Eastern Conference coverage this year for Charlotte Hornets, because they're, they blasted out of the gate at two and one, and they're going to be the bulk of the pod today. They should be, they should be, they should be 3 and 0. Hornets.

Blew the, blew a game I was at on Saturday night against the Sixers. Quentin Grimes. thrilling victory for the Sixers on Saturday night. Lamello bounced back, though, with a good game on Sunday. And Ryan Kalkbrenner, lighting Omaha on fire, emerging as the starter for the Hornets. It's very exciting. Join us from Dallas, Texas, where he's at the American Airlines Center,

where the Mavericks got their first win of the year. A needed victory tonight, just to ease everything up is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners, we don't have to leave with the Mavericks. They won tonight. Had they not, we would probably, Dive right into it, but we'll get to them here a little bit. Yeah. Cooper had another good game tonight, but DeAngelo Russell, as everyone expected, carried them home to a big victory over the Raptors.

I think we have to start with like, look, let's just be honest here. Let's just call it how it is. Let's get the get-up headline out and do it for them. Abron James and Luca Donchitz are holding Austin Reeves back. Clearly. Let's just say it. If the Lakers got, he average 51 when Luke had them play this year. If the Lakers get to play the Sacramento Kings 82 times, they would be 82 or no. You took the Kings, you took the Kings pretty early in the winds pool pod there, buddy.

I mean, pretty early. I think I took them 22nd, and they should have been lower than that. They were, they were an abomination watching this game in the second half today. Austin Reese got whatever he wanted, but I don't know how the Kings are going to stop anybody this season. Well, the Kings right now are still complaining about the free throws that the Lakers got. I'm not sure. Yeah, you know, hey, guess what? Here's what I watched in the second half.

I watched in the second half, the Sacramento Kings, let the Lakers do whatever the hell they wanted on offense the whole time. Now, Austin Reed's hit some crazy shots, and he was unbelievable. Like, he was hit and pull up threes, step back threes. He scored 51 points on 22 shots. Yeah, I mean, he was great, but they were just giving up open pass to the basket. Zach Levine was taking crazy, terrible shots. I know he had 32 points. He took several horrible shots in the fourth quarter.

They can't, they have, unless they have Keon Ellis out there, they don't have anybody who can stop the ball. DeMontas Sabonis got worked on an offensive rebound for a dunk by DeAndra Aiton, down the stretch of the game. I just don't, watching that game, I don't see how they're going to guard anybody with DeMardo Rose, Zach Levine, and DeBonisabonis. Well, they're not. They're not.

And they're not. And they're not going to get their off. Which is why they gave up 130 to the, whatever the score was to a Lakers team without Luca and LeB and had Austin Reeves turn into the human torch. Well, Andre, hold on. Yeah. I'm just going to say this. I do recall the USWB going tinkle tinkle, Wendy, when you declared that Austin

Reeves could be an all-star this season. Now, is Austin Reeves going to have a lot? Hold on. Is you going to have a lot of 51.11 rebound, nine assist performances? Perhaps not. but this did not come out of nowhere. First couple games, the man averaged 25 and a half points in 10 assists. Austin Reeves, I'm 58% shooting, by the way.

Austin Reeves is living up to Wendy's hype, not just tonight, but so far to season. Well, what happened here was Austin Reeves was deep, deep, deep in his bag of using his dark arts trips, tricks to get to the foul line. He's one of the best in the league at it, but his usage rate often doesn't allow him to do it. This game it did because not only were LeBron and Luca out, and we'll talk about Luca in a second, he's going to miss about a week, give or take. At least a week. But then Gabe Vincent turned his ankle. He was the other starter. So they were pretty much down to almost no ball handlers. And so Austin Reeves' usage rate went sky high, plus he had it cooking. And he had 11 rebounds and 9 assists. So he's getting, he's in there getting rebounds. He had 10

defensive rebounds. We can start the offense and let her go. I mean, it was. just a command performance by him. And then an iconic, perfect Austin Reeves comment after the game, which is extremely Austin Reeves in his walkoff interview where he said, I ain't got no words. Hill Billy Kobe, baby. It's just, it was perfect. That should be put on a T-shirt. I ain't got no words. 51, 11, and 9. No words. Lots of game. Well, look, and Austin Reeves is a very good on-ball player. and, you know, like, obviously he's not going to go for 51 every night, but if you have the ball in his hands like this, he's not. He's, I would be surprised.

We'll see what he does on Monday night against Portland. I'm going to guess. I'm going to go out of the limb and say he's not going to go for 51 again against Portland. But he is a guy that's going to put up numbers if you have the ball in his hands a lot. And he had an incredible game. It was put on numbers when Luke was in the lineup. Like I'm not, I know he can score. I'm just, that's my point.

If you give him the ball, he's proven he can put up numbers. He's a good player. So Austin, he's been terrific ever since training camp. I mean, as soon as throughout the whole preseason, he looked great. Jackson got some numbers from ESPN research. His 12 made field goals were tied for the third fewest in a regular season game where the guy got 50 points. The other two were Kevin Martin, who was also a specialty of the dark arts of getting to the foul line. and all the things.

He was sort of one of the early adopters where he would do some stuff that was just wild. And James Harden, who was the game that he went. I don't remember this game, but James Hardin went 11. So Kevin Martin in 2009 scored 50 points in a game where he went of 11 of 22 from the field. My guess is he had over 20 free throws. I'm sure maybe Jack's can find it. That would be math. Hardin won 11 of 30.

37 and it came in 2019. I do remember that. I remember that. Who is it against? Does it say? He doesn't have that. I'm sure he doesn't have that for us. But Mike Trudell, who's a Lakers sideline reporter.

There was the Spurs Rockets. It was a Spurs Rockets game. James Hardin went 11 for 37 from the field, four for 20 from three. It was 24 for 24 from the foul line in a 135, 133 double over time loss to the spurs. Oh, so that's all kinds of asteris. There's two rows of asteriskses on that performance.

That's impressive, though. All right, so Mike Trudell, who's a Lakers sideline reporter, gives us these numbers. And I just want to, again, you know, if you want to put a headline that said, Luca and LeBron are holding them back, the last three times that Austin Reeves played, where LeBron and Luca did not,

These were the results. Oh. Last February versus Indiana, I heard they were good last year. 45 and 7 assists. Huh. Last March versus Denver. I also heard they were good last year. 37 and 13 assists.

And then tonight, 519 assists and 11 rebounds. Well, it sounds like the Lakers should give them a max next summer and not sign anybody else. And it sounds like they'll be off the championship plan. So it sounds like to me. I'm probably one of the teams as well. I will say this. One thing that's not in doubt is his value on his contract this year. But Bon Temes does point out a difficulty as people think about the Lakers with all their free agents.

It's one of the reasons why getting cab space isn't the greatest thing in the world because, you know, someone's got to pay your own guys. And they can only spend the cap then. Now, this is early. There's obviously a whole season of play out. You know, can Rees not do this. because this is ridiculous, but can he consistently be an elite number two guy? Can he play at an all-star level all season long? If the answer is yes, then I think the Lakers can go into next summer thinking, hey, we've got our number one, we've got our number two.

Let's fill this out with defensive minded. But that's the problem. They can't. That's the problem. The problem is they can't. Why? That's the problem. Because if they pay Luca Donchich, $60 million, whatever they're paying him.

And if they have to pay Austin Reeves, a match. they're not going to have any cap space left over. Well, in a vacuum, what do you do about that? In a vacuum, what do you do? I'm not saying there's a good answer to the problem, but that's the problem. Well, there's an answer. In a vacuum, what do you do? Well, you're going to turn this into a trade LeBron pod.

That's what we're going to do. No, I'm not turning into the pod. I'm just saying. That's exactly what you just did. That's exactly what you just did. We're really doing this off of one game against the Kings, the first weekend of the season? Nope, three games. I'm telling you,

I think Austin Reeves can be an all-star this year. The only reason I think he might not be is if the Lakers don't win enough to get two All-Stars. Is Austin Rees one of the 16 best Americans in the league? It was tonight. Has been so far as season. I'm just saying, is he? Because that's the new rules.

Perhaps. We'll see. We'll see what he does. Look, it's three games, but if three games are a sign of things to come, then potentially. Well, yes, again, if they play the Kings every game, the rest of the year. Look, here's what I would say. If I'm Austin Reeves and his agent, no, hold on. I'm all seriousness.

If I'm Austin Reese and his agent, this is a gigantic week for him. It's a real opportunity for him to try to establish himself as a guy who should 100% get a max deal next summer, right? That's what this season, in a lot of ways for Austin Reeves, this season's about how much money can he prove he deserves to get next summer. He had a bad playoffs. There was a lot of questions coming out of that series against Minnesota about just how much should he get paid next summer. Austin and his camp was immediately turned down the extension from the Lakers, as they should have. It was not realistic for him to sign for four for 89 or whatever the number was. But look, he had an incredible game.

That when they offered it was, hey, no, of course. As a courtesy, here's the offer. Of course, of course. He had an incredible game tonight against a god-awful defensive team. Monday night, they're playing Portland, who has Drew Holiday, who has two money, tomorrow, who has Donovan clinging at the rim. They're an excellent defensive team. They obviously played tonight.

They lost the clippers across town. If he goes out and scores 35 on two money, and they win again Monday night. That's another one to file away for next summer. Minnesota, we'll see what happens to Anthony Edwards. He left the first quarter tonight's game with a hamstring injury. He might not be playing Wednesday. Tightness is what they call it. It takes a lot to knock Ann Edwards out of a game. That was not, that was worrisome. You leave a game and can't come back with a hamstring issue. It's usually not something you're immediately going to bounce back and play from. Hopefully, Ant is back right away.

But, and then they've got Memphis who obviously has had all these injury issues and has had a very up and down start to the season on Friday. And then Miami, who's off to a D's to start on Sunday. But like, with Luca out, with the Bron out, with a pretty limited roster around them, they've got eight or nine healthy players at the moment. Like, this is a huge opportunity for him. And if he does average 35 and nine assists this week and they go three and one, like that's something they're going to be able to point to next July and say, hey, if you sign Austin Reeves, you're getting an all-star caliber player. Like, you should give him a max and go get him if you're Brooklyn or if you're one of these, you know, Utah, one of these teams that's going to have money next summer that could use a on-ball guy who can generate, you know, whatever you said, his numbers are so far, McBand,

25 and 8 a game. It was 25 and a half and 10 going into tonight. I'm not good enough at math and do it right away. Well, the numbers are going to be, the numbers are going to be over 30 a game then. Yeah, what was it? Like 34 and double figure assists per game so far. I do. I love I love Bon Tim spin.

Austin Reeves is off to a great start. Here's why that's awful news for the Lakers. I didn't say it was awful news. I didn't say it was awful news for the Lakers at all. I mean, that was an important, that was a really important game tonight. Like they needed to win that game. I want to really lean into this. So after the game, they were talking to Austin.

They asked them if that was the most points that ever scored in a game. He said no, they scored 73 points in high school. The Twitter sleuth immediately went and they found the game that he scored 73. It wasn't a triple overtime game. But still, triple overtime in high school is probably only 47 minutes, so even better. Yeah, so his team won 117 to 115 in triple overtime. And he played for Cedar Ridge. And he played against, they played against Forest City, which apparently was a bitter rival.

and they had a star player named Robert Glasper, and Robert Glasper scored 59 in that game. I just looked him up. He goes by RJ Glasper, and he's now playing in Greece. Okay. He's averaging 18 points in it for in the Greek, in the Greek league.

Awesome. Bon Temps is just, he's in, he's in hell right now. I just think, I don't, I think it's insane. We're talking about RJ Glasper.

Well, I'm going to say this. That's what I would say. What I'm going to say is, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a regular season night, let's just have some fun. We are. Clearly, we're talking about R.J. Glasper.

What else are we doing? Hey, he had 59 in a game against Austin Reeves, future NBA. Yes, yeah, well, maybe he will be. NBA for Bon Timps is no beaming allowed. The, um, the, the, the, there's definitely no beaming in Sacramento tonight. That's for sure. The Kings. That's true.

The Kings were just incensed at 46 to 18 of free throws to Rosen. Doug Christie complained about, I was in sense at the king's defense. I don't give it. Well, DeRosen knows about getting to the free throw line, and DeRosen got to the line one time, and Reeves got their 22 times. Hold on. Who were the rest? Who were the rest? Oh, no. I didn't get to watch a game, but I'll tell you if it was fair or not. Who are the rest? I don't know who the rest were. We don't need to get into a refutation now either. All I know is our guy, James Capers, was in Cleveland tonight for Yan.

I saw old Tyler Ford was in San Antonio. Hey, did you speak in which? Did you see, Jory Fernandez got teed up with three seconds left. Did you see that? It ended up being the difference in whether they covered or not. That is funny. I don't know. Too soon. Was it our little, was it our little buddy Tyler who got him? I turned it off before then. I do not know who teed them up. I could look at Al now. Let me look it out. I did see he got teed up. I got to figure he had some pretty choice words to know. They were just like, you know what? You're paying a fine. Listen, Tyler wants to set the standard early on. I can't get on that website right now. All right. Anyway, it was a great. night for Austin Reeves.

It was an important night. The Lakers needed that win. They don't have Luka for a week and they've got good teams coming up and Sacramento was not good. Like that was a game they needed to win. The game was in Sacramento. You know, you never assume anything on the road in the NBA. Oh, but that's a game. If the Lakers are going to make the, you know, be a team that's in the top six in the West,

like you've got to go to Sacramento and win. Aiton had his first really good game with the Laker. He had 22 and 15, although he was minus six. I don't know. I'd have to look more into that. His stats can be deceiving, but they have been for his whole career. Anyway, there's some teams that are already pretty banged up. You know, like, you know, some teams that are already missing multiple starters who've gotten,

you've gone out and the Lakers have eight healthy players right now, and they've got to play a back-to-back at home against Portland on Monday. Right. Okay. So let's, I say let America celebrate Austin Reeves for the next 24 hours. I don't think you're going to have any trouble finding people to celebrate Austin Reeves and the Lakers winning, including my name. I've got no problem. I'm sure Austin will be all over get up and first take and I'm sure they won't.

It's the NFL season. The Cowboys got blown out. I'm not sure you're aware. I bet Austin. I bet Austin Reeves gets mentioned on get up in first take. And I bet there'll be all sorts of coverage in NBA today. He'll get mentioned. When the Cowboys got blown out, that was just as the Mavericks were.

about a tip off and I game in it. I said, well, listen, that'll help Nicos. That'll help take the heat off of them and then the Mavericks came out

and got them on. Yeah. Temperature down. All right. By the way, happy birthday to our Lakers writer, Dave McMedaman who claims to be 34 years old. We probably should talk about...

43. It's his perk here, he said. We probably should talk about the guy who scored 49 or 50 the other night getting hurt, too, before we leave the Lakers

since we just called talking about Grayhouse and Reeves is. He was a surprise. He was a surprise. He was, He was not on the injury report, was he? Yes, he was. He was questionable.

Oh, okay. And then he was rolled out for at least a week. For the finger and the leg? Oh, the finger. All right. So they say he's a lower leg injury plus a sprained finger. Which finger is it? I don't even know.

Oh, I'll show you. Actually, I don't know. I'm not certain. He's shown that to you before. Yes. Yes. By the way, the referees tonight in Sacramento. Leon Wood, one of the veteran,

most veteran NBA officials in the league, former NBA player. Kevin Scott, he's got one of the most fantastic southern accents. I was going to say he might like Austin just because the accents. Go on. Mitchell Irvin.

Oh, Mitch is solid. That's a good crew. This is a veteran crew. That's a good crew. This is a veteran crew. There's some crews out there that ain't veteran crews. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

All right. In Dallas tonight, McMahon. Finally, Bond Tems can talk about the Mavericks. Oh, but what about Bont-Tempsons' Toronto Raptors, who I thought were on their way to 54-4-Way? I'd tell you what. Dude, what an abysmal defense to perform. This Maverick's team couldn't score the first two games.

They were the worst offense in the league. They gave up 139. Dude, off of made free throws, it was like dribble, dribble, dribble, lay up or dunk. It was unbelievable. But two teams that can't shoot putting up, I think, 139, 129, was quite a defense. of performance. The match had 70 points in the paint. They were pretty much running at will. They got, they were

29 of 39 for the line. They got to the line a whole lot. That's it. They want to play fast. They want to put a ton of pressure on the rim. Cooper Flagg had an unbelievable dunk over old Sondro Mamu, can't pronounce the rest.

He just, you know, his friends call him Mammo. Yeah. One of those where they get a stop. One of Kevin Pelton's favorite players in the NBA. Well, I tell you what, he might need to call pelton night for some soothing of the ego because it got bruised on this

play, my friends. By the way, beautiful half-court logo, the Mavericks were in the vintage, you know, with the old-the-old cowboy hat. Beautiful thing. Very cool. Very cool. Old-school green jerseys. Yeah, it's just Scuperflex cross and half court, that beautiful logo. Had a foot on the hat when it gets

that look-head pass. One dribbled, two more big old steps, took off from outside the block, and just posterized Mamu and won. And that cap a 26 to 9 run in the third quarter. Like the Mad was, you know, they were down seven, third quarter. I'm like, oh, boy, oh, boy. Just, you know, sees control of the game.

They end up winning it, obviously, fairly easily by double figures. 22, 4 and 4 for Flag, he had. He's the youngest other than Jermaine O'Neill, Kobe, T-Mack, and LeBron to score 20 in an NBA game. And his first win, obviously, the limelight's going to be on that, or the spotlight, rather. I tell you what, though, the DeAngel Russell thing is pretty, pretty interesting. D.Lo did not play in the second half against the Wizards in that loss. I actually got off the bench, but to go ride the exercise bike in the second half of that game.

Jay Kid gave more minutes in the first two games to undrafted two-way guy, Ryan Nimard, than he did DeAngelo Russell. Well, Delo came in, first sub off the bench today. And honestly, he missed like his first seven or eight shots. But, you know, he was making things happen. And he ended up having 24 and 6 off the bench. And for a team that is just starved for creation and shooting, I think it's hard not to play the guy.

Like, listen, I, like, let's just be frank. There's a line of coaches who've had DeAngel Russell who can probably understand why J.K. He doesn't want to play him. But you don't have a whole lot of guards on this roster who are available. And certainly, like, you don't have a guard in starting lineup. I mean, not starting to make sense. We've talked about that. The Cooper Flagg experiment at point guard is what they should be doing for the long term.

But to not play them, given their lack of creation. doesn't make any sense. And look, if he doesn't have it in a game and you want to pull him at some point, fine. That's fine. But he can have nights like today or tonight when he can really get hot and make a bunch of shots. And like you said, the Mavs don't have a lot of perimeter shooting. They don't have a lot of shot creation really on the team. So he probably should be a six-man guard anyway, really.

And so have him come in and do that. And he'll be able to win him a few games. games this year by doing what he did tonight. And it won't be the only time that he does it. He was very good in that game. They still committed to 18 turnovers a night, which is actually brought their average for the season down a little bit. They had eight or nine in the first quarter, right? They had eight in the first quarter, 12 and the half. So they got that calm down in the second half. But again, like, part of the turnover issue, like the last game, Flagg had five, I think 80 had five or six. PJ Washington, who's basically like their secondary playmaker

the starting lineup had eight. I think you, you know, Jake is just going to have to play Daniel Russell. He's the only experienced guard, and by guard, I mean, ball handler on the roster. I'm not counting Clay Thompson as a guard. So it was interesting that also when he came in the first time, he played 13 straight minutes. After DMPCD for a second half to 13 straight minutes, I thought it was an interesting deal. But to DeLo's credit, you know, he handled it like a pro, you know, gave the kind of, hey, ready cliches, coaches experiment,

and try to figure things out, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he was ready to roll. Where is, you know, so let me give you, let me ask you this. You've seen the Mavericks for a week. You've seen this lineup, what they're trying to do. Kyrie's months away. That best.

What do you think about, what do you think about this team? I think it's, you know, obviously, look, tonight they scored a lot of points. I don't anticipate that happening in tomorrow and again in Soklooma City. I think it's going to be a struggle for this team offensively. And they have to get. get out in transition. They have to get to the line a lot because like if they are trying to grind out half court sets, there's just not a lot of playmaking, but you know, ball handling and shooting.

And those are three pretty important things in terms of being able to score in a half court in the NBA. And you know, and look, all things considered for an 18 year old kid, despite the fact that they're one and two, Cooper Flag is off to a very good start. I agree. You just have like, we got, we got to keep. expectations for him reasonable. Kobe Bryant averaged 7.6 points per game when he was 18. Tracy McGrady was a fringe rotation player. Even LeBron.

LeBronstadt shot 41. Garnett was not a difference maker. Speaking of Kobe Bryant, staff from Jackson, Cooper Flagg joins Kobe Bryant is the only players to have 20 points and no turnovers in a game before turning 19 since turnovers became a stat in the 77-78 season, which is not a bad. stat. I was talking to a Mavs assistant and they basically said, hey, if Cooper ends up averaging like 14, 7, and 6 and making plays defensively like he does, then that's going to be a really, really good rookie season for a kid who doesn't turn 19 until I think it's December, whatever it is.

Yeah, it's December, December something. Yeah. The fact that he's already a solid starter in the NBA at this age is, is remarkable. I just think, like, to expect him to as a point guard, a position that he's never played, to consistently put up big numbers and drive winning, like, that's asking a whole lot. You know, I think the matter, I've said it all along. I think they're probably a play-in team in the Western Conference. If Kyrie is back, and then suddenly they, and by back, I mean, if Kyrie can return to form by the time the play-in rolls around, then suddenly that solves a whole,

lot of issues in terms of shot creation and ball handling and playmaking and shooting and all those kind of things. And then they could be, I could see them being dangerous, but I think it's going to be tough for this team to score for most of the season. Well, they should be an awesome defensive team, right? They're gigantic. They play a lot of very good defensive players. You should be able to control the gap, the glass, and a lot of games. They should be able to get to the line a lot in a lot of games. Ante Davis has always been a guy who's got in the line a lot. Like, they ought to be able to do those things. And if they have a good to very good defense, like, that's a baseline of being a decent team. Now, again, there's probably going to be plenty of nights when they can't hit

anything from the perimeter and the struggle and to score and those nights could look ugly. But on any night where they're hitting shots, um, they, the fact, Like, they should be a good defensive team just about every game. So they haven't been yet, is what I would say there. And look, if they're not going to be a good defensive team, then they're going to stink. Because they're not going to be a good offensive team. But they have the defensive talent and size to be a good defensive team, and they should be. The supersized lineup comes to defensive challenges as well.

While I think we all agree, Cooper Flagg is going to be potentially an awesome defensive player, six-foot-nine-eighteen-year-olds don't have a whole lot of experience guarding ball handers in the pick and roll. You know, having to, you know, guard a lot on the perimeter. Their on-ball defense has not been good so far. See, and look, Clay tries, but Clay's in his mid-30s with a major injury history. You know, Dilo's not a good defensive player. We all understand that. You know, there are their guards, Nimhard and Brandon Williams are tiny.

They're small. And just getting out to three-point shooters, like they've got some perimeter defensive challenges. The hope is they can be so dominant in the interior defense that they can kind of minimize some of their perimeter defensive concerns. You mentioned in passing just Oklahoma City. I just want to have a little side comment here. I just want to point something out about what Shea has done in his first week.

granted, the actual counting stats are totally skewed because he's played four overtimes. So I'm not going to focus on the fact that he's averaging 40 points. I just want to point out that through three games, Shea is averaging, is shooting 66% on two-pointers. It's not bad. Because he is going to that mid-range and it is just smooth and efficient and incredible. He's also averaging 15 free throws a game. Now, granted, heavily influenced by the fact that he had the overtime games, but against the Hawks on Saturday, you could very clearly tell that they had,

that Quinn Snyder had drilled into his team. Do not foul him. In fact, I'm even wondering if there was some sort of threat or bounty for not putting on the line. and he got four free throws and still scored 30 points in 29 minutes. Here's the thing. I think he has the best pump fake in the league. And part of the threat is like, dude, you don't want to be able to rise up and get a clean look because he's so damn efficient at the mid-range. But like you go back to the season opener, he gets KD flying in the air on a pump fake from like 18 feet.

And boom, it's an obvious foul. off the, he goes to the line for the game winning points. He's so good at the pump fig, so good at the footwork. It's hard not to foul the guy. And his scoring and his efficiency is even more impressive when you consider they don't have their number two guy. Yeah, and actually, they're ball, you know, I would actually just, you know, one thing I would say, despite how great he's looked, their ball movement without Jalen Williams has reduced. Well, and without Isaiah Joe, who's a great spacing player, an on-the-move shooter. They don't have two, you know, a major binge piece and their co-star.

The ball is sticking in Shea's hand a lot. That's the one area where, on the high level, where if you're taking like a 30,000-foot view of the thunder, they check so many boxes, particularly defensively. Not that this is a criticism, but one area where they are not elite is the number of creators that they have. Yeah. And they're leaning heavy on Shea. Although, let me tell you, A.J. Mitchell's a player, boy. Oh, they got him another, another Presti special there.

Second round picks started on a two-way. It's going to be hard, it's going to be hard not to continue, given that guy a significant role, even when J. Dub and Isaiah Joe are back. Now Cruz was out to. By the way, you know, they signed. three max contracts, but they got A.J. Mitchell. So the thing about A.J. Mitchell, when you talk to people in Oklahoma City, he basically as a two-way last year, so he signed him as a two-way. He was playing. Dagannaut was playing. He was a rotation player right off the bat. Yes. And he got hurt.

And then some, and then, you know, he didn't play as much after that. They had to get surgery mid-season, and then they were off to a 68-win championship season. Okay. So do you know the contract they signed them to this summer? It's like I do. It's under three-mill a year. It's under 2% of the gap for the next three years, which again, when you have three guys on max deals to have depth around them, that's exactly what you need to do, and that's why the thunder are in the position they're in and will be for quite a while.

And all these doing self-garde season is averaging 18.7 points, shooting 47. 42, 100, and 4.3 assists, and he's got one turnover in three games. Yes, and he will not have this role probably this large when the team is fully healthy. But the point is that from day one, they had something here and they've developed him, and now he's a real bona fide rotation player. I actually think he's going to play over Isaiah Joe and a bunch of those guys. I don't think his role is going away. Like, yes, he'll handle the ball a little bit less when, Jay.

when Jaylon Williams is back, but he's going to be in their rotation going forward. And by the way, the guy who drafted in the middle of the second round, Brooks Barnheiser is already looking like a guy who can give him some minutes and is already playing on a two-way sum and very well might be the next guy that they had done. Well, it's three years and $8.7 million, by the way, is what they signed A.J. Mitchell for. That's about what you got, right? We're a little far afield from the Mavericks. I'm sorry. It was my fault. Oh, I said what I need to. Now, listen, I will look, the first two games were quite a disaster here. Let's just be straight up. Like, as much as we raved about Wimby, they got blown out by 33 against the Spurs team that went, you know, had to scrap to beat the Pelicans a couple nights later and tried to blow against the Nets today.

It was down in the fourth quarter against the Nets after having a big lead. And then the Mavs lost on Friday to the Wizard. So, Not a great first few days. Yeah. And there were fire Nico chance in both those games just in case you were wondering how fans feel like every time they lose, there's going to be cries to fire the general manager. And honestly, man, when I got to the arena today, it felt pretty hot. You know, this calms things down. It's not a triple-digit temperature right now, but it ain't room temperature. Well, and look, to go back to what you said before, right, they gave up 125 to the spurs.

they gave up $1.17 to the Wizards, which is hard to do. And they gave up a buck 29, even in the win today to a Toronto team, that, again, like Dallas, does not have a lot of perimeter shooting. And, you know, he was playing Yacquipurtle and RJ Barrett and Scotty Barnes and Brandon Ingham are iffy perimeter shooters. Like, you should be given up a buck 29 of them. And the theory of the case for Dallas to be a play in team, forget a playoff team with Kyrie Irving out, is, they have a really good defensive team like Orlando was the last couple of years with a bad offense and they grind out wins. If the defense isn't going to be good, the Dallas Mavericks will not be good. They will not.

You know, they might, again, maybe they squeak into the playing because they're competing with the Sacramento's and the phoenixes of the world. And it's a race to the bottom for the last spot in the play in. So maybe they sneak in. But if they have to be a good defensive team to have a chance to be competitive. And your points about the perimeter defense are valid. And if that ends up being an ongoing story, Dallas is just not going to be good this season. And at some point, it's going to be a question of, well, given this is the one year Dallas has their pick, does it wind up making more sense at some point to pivot in that direction to try to get some other good young player in a loaded draft alongside Cooper flag going forward?

Yeah. I'd like to apply for another digression. Okay. Go bring your podcast. to do whatever you want, bro. Because you mentioned Victor, I just want to point out that today they beat the Nets. Victor got 15 free throws, which was his career high. Wow, I didn't realize that was his career high.

He did take six threes, which is higher than his average. Including one from the logo right after he swatted two shots. It was a two-for-one at the end of the first half. Multiple NBA people reach out to me. Multiple NBA people reach out to me within an hour of that moment. It's say, go back and watch this play from this game. That's ridiculous. It was unbelievable.

Victor had six blocks today. He has 18 blocks in three games. I mean, yeah. And by the way, he only had three in the opener, so do the math. He has 15 in the last two. But just to keep the point of, you know, he's, you know, this focus on him to get to the line is, and just to complete our Nets coverage, because, you know, we don't get a lot of it. Cam Thomas did score 40 today. Hey, and to complete our.

are top of the lottery coverage, which we will get a lot of. But dude, Dylan Harper's home debut for the Spurs, listen to this line, 20 points, 8 of 11 from the floor, six rebounds, eight assists, two steals, no turnovers, plus 33 and 29 minutes. Yeah, Dylan Harper is going to be a dude. He's pretty good. He didn't, you know, his efficiency in shooting were not great the first few games. That's not unexpected because you often see rookie guards just they don't, their percentages are kind of low, even guys who have Hall of Fame careers. But he, he rounded back into formula 8 of 11. Yeah. And he had one, he stunk in shooting the ball in New Orleans. He was 7 to 14 in the opener 3 or 12. So then he got back. Dylan Harper is going to be good.

I tell you for being a young kid, you know, he's 19. He definitely came in with an NBA body, 6-5-215 and knows how to use leverage. It's almost like his dad. Almost like his dad was a longtime NBA big guard. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Speaking of Tanking, I was with a scout here in Omaha yesterday, and he was quickly going off to Knoxville today. See,

Nate a meant. These do, and Cam Boozer. These dudes like, oh, did they scrimmage each other today? I have no idea why Tennessee and Duke played in an exhibition game, but they did.

And Cameron Boozer had 24 points, 23 rebounds and six assists against Duke. Oh, he plays for Duke. So against Tennessee. I'm sorry, against Tennessee. Yeah, look, this, this draft is,

This draft is better than last year's draft by a decent amount. I mean, these guys are an exhibition game. Last year's draft was really good at the time. Can I say something, though? Sure. About the whole tanking thing. The fact that there is FBI involved gambling charges, including stuff related to tanking, or at least the investigation related to co-conspirator number eight saying, hey, we the blazers are tank and get a bet in.

How is tanking? like how is tanking not just completely messing with the integrity of the game just as much as the gambling concerns? The NBA's got to get its hands around the tanking issue. Got to. What, okay. I just have a, what are we supposed to do with teams that are bad? What are we supposed to do? I don't know.

There are teams that are going to be, well, no, but hold on, hold on. Everybody yells and screams about tanking. Got to get rid of tanking. Tanking is the worst thing ever. What do we do with these teams that are bad? Okay, I understand that. But there's always going to be bad teams. There's always going to be teams that are losing at the end of the season.

There's always going to be teams that when you get to mid-March, there's nothing for them to play for. So, yes, the idea of let's abolish tanking, I agree. I would like every game to have meaning. What is the solution? Well, I do like there's nice. And I don't know who came up with the idea you guys might. and I also don't have the details in front of me, but something about... I think I know the idea, and I think I know who came up with, I think I know what you're about to say.

Okay, the late season stuff where the wins count benefits you from a lottery perspective. I like that idea. And, again, I don't have the details in front of me, but like you've got to make losing not good strategy later. Essentially, that idea would be at some date on the calendar, it would flip from losses counting towards your ping pong balls to wins counting towards your ping pong balls. what date that is is to be determined. I do think that's a very interesting idea. But again, my only point was not, it was not really anything towards you. But when people yell and scream that, we have to get rid of tanking, like, give me an actual solution.

I think that is an interesting potential solution that you could use. But like in general, like the NBA has done a lot of things to make it even harder for bad teams to get better. And this past year, we had a lot of teams hoping to get. it Cooper Flag and Dylan Harper and some Vijay Edgecombe in the draft and they went to a Dallas team that was a disaster last year, a Philly team that was a disaster last year in San Antonio Antonio that had Victor Wimbunyama and Safon Castle the prior two years. So, you know, it's Europe, Europe sport has a lot. They've figured out a lot of things on American sport. Europe sport figured it out. It's just American sport can't do what European sport does.

Because the Europeans got to figure out. Why are you saying sport over and over again? We're not going to say sports? No, no, no, because he's international. I know, I know. Be worldly. Yeah, the answer is relegation, but that's not happening. European sport, if we're doing that, also has the same three teams win every year and every league, which people who get mad about too.

Also, they've got ridiculous amounts of gambling. Yes. There's been all kinds of gambling scandals in every store. You know, like go down a little rabbit hole about the, about volleyball, about what's happening in volleyball. Forget volleyball. How about like the best teams in the Italian soccer league all getting dinged for match fixing 10 years ago? Oh my God. I mean, so I, why once spent a day in London at Sport Radars Integrity Unit where they monitor betting for irregularities like this,

like the alerts that set them off about Terry Rozier, about John Day Porter. And you go into the guy who was the executive director's office, and they've got like a Hall of Fame of stuff that they've identified in abetting patterns. And none of it is American sports or the NBA. It's the African soccer leagues are, you know, you could do a 17-part documentary on what's gone on there. Anyway, we're all for Farfield. I agree with both of you.

I agree with you, McMahon. that the root of the issue here is tanking. And I agree with you, Bontemps, that it's not something that can be fixed. But we all agree on the first one. Because we all want to go to games that matter. Yeah, I just, like, let's just be real. The last month of the NBA regular season is abysmal because you've got 12 teams that are trying to lose.

By the way, it's gotten better because of the play in tournament. Yeah, that helped. They've made strides. And by the way, the same thing happens in the NFL. the same thing happens in baseball. It's the same exact thing. Like, it's, I mean, in baseball, it's gotten to the point where you have, you know, some of these teams winning 45 games because they're like, because in baseball,

there's a lottery. If you have the worst record, you get the number one pick and you get the most draft pool of one. So, like, you know, it's, it's not like this is only an NBA issue. You have teams at the end of the season every year in the NFL fighting over trying to have the top pick or the second pick or the third pick. Well, you know what happens in the NFL is. coaches who are going to get fire like screw you i'm trying to win well yes i mean obviously it's a

small sample size so one game can shift things but like this is a it's a problem in general but to your point man the fact that in the NBA it's a lot of games over a month it stands out and unlike in baseball in basketball one player can shift things so dramatically that it you're going to be prone to this being an issue but yeah i just if people are going to complain about it just come up wins count towards ping pong balls for those teams. Whatever. After those, whose idea is that?

Give credit who came up with that originally. I don't know if it's publicly known who gave credit for it. I know who it was. Oh, well, whoa, whoa, whoa. No. Hey, hey. Okay. I just, I'm not, I'm not sure it's, I'm not sure it's supposed to be known.

I got you. I'm going to, I'm going to, no, that's not it. I'm going to try to. That's true, but also that's not it. Yeah. It's not true. The Celtics lost to the, to the Pistons in a game that was, it was a six-point game, but Detroit, actually, Boston was ahead by, I think, 10 in the first quarter. So it wasn't from start to finish.

But Detroit led through comfortably throughout the second half. I think they were up by almost 20 in the third quarter. Boston is 0.3, and I'm seeing some reaction like, oh, my gosh, like, you know, the Celtics might not make the conference finals this year. You think? I'm, you know, Jalen Brown had 41 points today. Like, Jalen Brown having a 40-point game and the Celtics losing a road conference game is what I thought this was going to define the Celtics season. I think, like, what we're going to see today is going to happen 25, 30 more times.

Well, the Celtics, a lot of people had the Celtics in the playoffs this season. And I would say through the first. You have to make it in the east. Well, I would just say through the first three games of the season, like it remains to be seen how good the Sixers are. We'll talk about them probably in a bit, but they were in a obviously back and forth game with them at home that they lost. I know they lost the Knicks by 10 on Friday. I was at that game. That was not a competitive game.

Celtics were not really in the same league as the Knicks. And again, today Jalen Brown scored 41 and on relatively good efficiency. and the Celtics were down 10 to 15 points for a large chunk of the game to Detroit, who again, is a fine team, fine team, but good. No,

well, yes, but my point is like the Celtics look a clear level below the Pistons. And the Pistons are probably going to be fifth or six and east. Of course they are. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of coming into the season,

I think they pushed the Knicks to the brink in the playoffs last year, like as a really young team. I, going to finish somewhere between fourth and sixth in the east. And the Celtics don't look nearly as good as them as of today. And coming into the season, I think the perception of the Celtics was they were going to be a team pushing to finish in the top six by a lot of people. They were still going to be good.

They still might, but they're probably a playing team. Well, we'd also did a lot of praise lavishing on the old hawks and magic and, you know, a weekend of the season. They haven't quite lived up to it. Well, I understand. But I would say, if you look at this Boston team. Bulls are red hot, though, baby. Oh, ho, those other three of Chicago Bulls.

They are on their way to 39 wins. I can feel it. On the way to 82 as far as my math goes. But they've got three guys in Jalen Brown, Derek White, and Peyton Pritchard, who you can regularly count on to score. And to some extent, Anthony Simon is off the bench.

They have very little scoring outside of that. And I think you're already starting to see that early on here. And Jalen Brown's already dealing with a hamstring issue. Yeah. Like, if he misses any time, they're going to be really hard up against it to score. And look, I wrote a story with Jamal on the Pacers and the Celtics at the start of training camp, and I'll both these teams.

We're going to come into the season, try and like Al to compete and be as good as they can this year. And they're not looking at it like a gap year. And they both had pretty tough starts to the season schedule-wise, and they both competed, like the Pacers played Minnesota today and were competitive in the game, ultimately lost. Of course they were. That's who they are. Well, they got blown out in Memphis, but they did take OEC to two OTs.

Exactly. And now they're down all three of their point guards, and they got a bunch of injuries. Like, for both they said about Ninhard's shoulder, by the way. They just keep saying he's out as far as I've seen. There hasn't been any update. Obie Topping got hurt during the game today as well. So I just do wonder, it is worth monitoring them early, I think, to see how their seasons go. And if at some point does reality set in for either of those teams who will continue to compete,

and I'm not saying neither one of them is going to win 20 games, they're both going to be competitive teams and try to win games. But you could just see the limited options that the Celtics have outside of their top couple guys. And they're, you know, like, it's going to be a struggle against a lot of these solid teams even in the East. Yeah, I think they'll, they'll be a pretty competitive team at home on the road, a lot of times they're not going to have the better team and it's going to show up. That's what it's like to be in the middle in the NBA. I have no reaction to them being 0 in 3, other than the fact that they haven't been 0 in like 14 years because they've usually got a really good team.

They don't happen to have a really good team this year. I don't think it's that remarkable. But I do think the 76ers might have a good team. And the might is the key. And B.D. looked better in his second game. Fontems you were at on Saturday. Yeah, he clearly came out. Obviously, it went one for nine in that first game, didn't make any shots in the paint.

There was much to do about it. He's playing on a 20-minute limit in these games. And he clearly came out from the start of this game Saturday, determined to be aggressive and take shots and get himself into the game. Now, it was helped by the fact that Omaha's own Ryan Kalkbrenner was guarding him. And Kalkbrenner had a solid game, but Ryan Kalkerner trying to get out to the three-point line to guard Joelle Embedde was not something that was really going to work very well. So he got to step into a bunch of early open threes and early open jumpers and get himself

going. But look, I'm still not really sure what to make of Embed. Like his shot is really good still. And obviously he didn't make jumpers in the first game. But like he's going to make jump shots. And he's still a guy who can fill it up. He had 20 points, 20 minutes against Charlotte. He only had a couple rebounds.

he's still not playing with quite the same level of force, particularly defensively. So I'm curious to see where that lands. But I still think he's going to be able to give them 20 to 25 points a game when he's playing, especially assuming when. But when the 20 minutes is, I think, the most important stat. And that he was wrong with about that because like if your minutes limit is 20, like you're really short stints or is he. said you're basically done near halftime. So what's the plan on ramping that up? Well, I asked him about that after the game. And he said, I argue against the minutes limit every game and left it at that. I said, okay. I think the way Nick Nurse handled it in the second game is the way I would handle it and just play him in normal stints until he's done and then figure it out after that.

Just so you could get in a better rhythm and it looked like Embed was in a better rhythm. but like we've talked about before, what's clear about this Philly team is they're giving the ball to Vijay Edgecombe and Tyrese Maxie. Can we just talk about their guard rotation in general? Well, yes, that's what I'm getting to. You're going to give it to those two guys and they're going to run and they've got Quentin Grimes coming off the bench.

They don't even have Jared McCain back yet. He's going to be coming off the bench soon too. And they're going to be flying up and down and getting up threes and trying to create turnovers. And when Paul George is back out there, which should be, I think, sometime fairly soon. And when Embedde is out there, they get in the half court,

their offense bogs down. I think those guys can help them there. But otherwise, I think it's going to be try to keep up because they're not slowing the pace down to have those guys to play at those guys' pace. That seems pretty clear from the way the preseason went and the way this first week of the season has gone. They have a very clear pathway to have a successful team, whether Embedde plays 20 minutes, 30 minutes or no minutes.

I don't I'm the second the last part I'm not going to quite agree with because you what successful the zero minutes they need imb to be able to give them production on an ugly basis to be a good team I agree behind success with sixers too like what what what team do you like better do you like the Celtics roster that they got or do you like the 76ers without in beat because I think the 76ers got here's five or six really good players here's what I here's what I would say I would say the Sixers more or less didn't have Embed in the first game of the season, and it came down to a shot at the buzzer. Like,

I think if Joel is giving them nothing, I think they're about the same. Well, if they gives them nothing for three months, then okay. But I'm saying there's a pathway forward with him having limited minutes. Well, you asked which team do I like better.

I think we saw Wednesday the first game of the season. He was one for nine and was bad. And it was a toss-up game. like he asked but he didn't really want you to answer clearly not well i just think the six the sixers got a lot of good players they have they have very good that's my my surface level analysis they have very good perimeter depth they have absolutely no size inside like dominic barlow who's bounced around as a two-way guys an interesting young player who's an overtime elite guy was in san an tonyal and atlanta he started the first two games as a two-way he then got a laceration on his arm he's got to get a procedure done

he's going to miss a couple games. They then went to Jabari Walker, Samaki Walker's kid, who's also on a two-way. Like, Paul George, I think when he comes back, will be they're starting four. But, you know,

their, Andre Drummond got exhumed. He had his best game as a Sixer by a Mile, played the final 16 minutes of the game and literally saved the game for them against Charlotte. Look for sure like they were going to lose to Charlotte. Again, just a reminder that maybe the Sixers have some issues

if they're going to lose at home to Charlotte. I'm not picking them to win the east. I'm just telling you, like, I, yes. There was a one point, though, when Drummond had a two foot putback that he shot like eight feet. It's been known to happen. A lot of his rebounds are his own misses.

The Sixers are, the Sixers have some very interesting young talent, and they can have a system that they can run every game, regardless of if those guys are playing. And they have a style of playing. Right. But what I would say is, I don't know how effective that style is going to be

unless Joelle in particular is able to give them 24 to, 28 minutes of solid play. Yeah. I think it can be good enough to get in the playoffs in the east, but not to be a threat unless Embed is a force. Now, if you tell me, Joel can play,

no, I was going to say, if you tell me Joel can play 28 minutes a game and do what he did to some degree on Saturday against Charlotte, they can be a decent team because they're, they're going to score a lot. The guards are going to score. And you would like to think his,

his mobility at the rim and inside will be better as a season goes along. But like at minimum, you can see that they've, I mean, I think I would almost say they've moved into a new era of the team and you've got the two young guards that are the center of what they're doing and they're building a style of play that fits those guys. And then the rest of the thing, including Joel, including Paul George, works around that. And if Joel is healthy and can give them stuff, it makes them be a decent team. And if he can't, well, at least they've got those two young guys and they're building a style of play

that they're going to be able to carry forward one way or the other. But you just laid out, if Paul George can't play, if he's not available, there is a glaring hole for them at the four. Yes. A glaring hole. I mean,

there's even, honestly, there's even a hole at the three. Like, Kelly Ubra is starting. Kelly Ubray is the only real three-sized guy that they're playing. I mean, Justin Edwards is like a two-three. Yeah. And the rest of their guys are all pretty small. Yeah.

Grimes can try to play. He's another two, three. Like they're both, they're both like more two than three can do it a little bit. But like they're just a very perimeter heavy team, which again is part of why they're playing so fast and leaning into the young guys. It's also where most of their talent is. But that is where they really need Joel. And even to a lesser extent, Paul George, to be able to give them some production and some semblance of size for them to be, you know, to have a chance to get in the top six, I would say. I would say, to be the top sixers on the other end of the spectrum.

Well, I think we saw like, what was there, like four or five, 40-point games just on Sunday. There's been a lot of, there's been a lot of, been three 50-point games already. Wait, have it really? Yeah. Which one did I miss? There was Shea, there was Reeves, who, what am I blanking on? Oh, Aaron Gordon. Oh, that's right.

Dude, by the way, man, Aaron Gordon had a tough year last year in terms of, like, health. He looks good coming out. And then obviously, I just didn't trees. Did you, one of the most ridiculous plays so far this season, did you see? I know you got, I think I sent it to you get the half court set where he caught the lob and threw down the 360 from Joker. I mean, Aaron Gordon looks fresh and ready to roll. Yeah, Denver is, you know, Yokic is not putting up big scoring numbers, but, uh, Denver's, you know, Murray also looks pretty healthy.

Joker, Joker didn't take a shot until there's 236 left in the second quarter of that the night and he already had 10 assists or 11 assists at that point. Yeah, he's very active. He's very much looking, you know, historically, I mean, there's variance in here, but historically, the more he score is the less effective they are. So he's, I think, trying to lean into that.

All right. Very interesting first week. More interesting second week. Hopefully all in the basketball court. Oh, yeah. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully basketball-wise, hopefully not otherwise. Yeah. But we'll be here to talk about it all, and we will be talking to you later this week.

Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bontem. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you for watching. Listen to the Whoop Collective. We'll talk to you soon. Adios amigos.