Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Biggest Winners & Losers of Free Agency Day 1

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the winners & losers of the first day of NBA free agency. The guys break down the Lakers' inability to find a center, Boston’s continued deconstruction, a big day for Atlanta, some financial moves from Cleveland, a new direction for Memphis, a big trade in Denver and a massive summer for the Rockets continuing.   Vegas Summer League Live Show Link: hoopcollectivelive.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Monday evening. Joining me from New York City is Timbontems.

Hello, everybody. Join us from Dallas, Texas. The new home of DeAngelo Russell is Bayne McMahon. Howdy, partners. You know what they say. DeAngelo wins championships. Yeah, not bad. All right, so first day of free agency is mostly in the books.

I'm sure that there will still be transactions that happen from when we record this to win a post. but that's the nature of the beast. However, we've seen the lion's share of maneuvers across the league on the first day. We're going to kind of go over some winners and losers. Should we do the winners or the losers first? Oh, you know what you want to do. Well, I'm just a little bit skeptical of calling the team a loser on the first day of free agency. Where would you like to start, Brian?

That's the question. Then we can decide which way to go. Could you hit their arena with a rock right now if you had a good arm? You know, every year in and around July 4th here in downtown L.A., they have the anime convention. And every year it gets bigger. And every year it gets a little bit weirder. And the anime folks are starting to move in around here. So I have free agency in anime every year, this time a year.

Anyway, the Lakers, I thought for sure would have a center done by tonight. They don't, and the night is not over. The sun is still up here in L.A., so it could still happen. But a number of centers have come off the board, and they're not Lakers. And as we do this, DeAndre Aden has not signed, but I don't know if he's going to be Lakers.

So we'll see. What I'm interested in when it comes to the Lakers is that they agreed to a contract with Jake Laravia, who is a, you know, he's a backup wing player, combo forward. You know, they lost Dorian Finney Smith to the rockets on a four-year deal. I will be interested to see how much of those four years are guaranteed. The rockets are known for doing team options and non-guaranteed money. but the Lakers lost a wing defender in Doreen Phine Smith,

and they replaced him with Jake LaRavia, and what I'm a little bit, what I totally, you know, again, we're first night free agency is ongoing, but they used $6 million, Bontemps, and that $6 million allowed the clippers to outbid Brooke Lopez, allowed them to outbid for Brooke Lopez. Now, I don't know if Brooke Lopez's decision came down to money. Brooke Lopez ended up signing with the Clippers to be a backup for $9 million a year.

The Lakers had less than that because they had promised Jake Laravia the $6 million, as far as I understand. And again, I'm not saying it was the only decision, but that was a factor. And then Clint Capella, who I think was an option for them, ended up going to Houston. So, Bontemps, I'm not sure. Maybe the Lakers didn't prioritize,

Brooke. I don't want to make it sound like they were totally outmaneuvered. But if I were the Lakers, I would have had my first signing be a center, not a backup forward. I mean, if you look at the way pre-Agees played out so far, you know,

as you said, we're still, we saw the DeAndre Aiton situation outstanding. He's still got a little ways to go before he clears waivers. You know, Luke Cornett has signed with the San Antonio Spurs. Good Big. Like would have been a potential starter for the Lakers. He's off the board.

Capella obviously wouldn't have been a super exciting option, but at least as a lob threat, he's off the board. Brooke Lopez, which I think we all thought was going to wind up with the Lakers. That was sort of what the trending belief was, to your point. He goes off the board and not only goes off the board, goes to the Clippers who have an incredibly deep and interesting team now, getting Nick Baton back, getting Brooke back. Him and the Vita Zubox are a tremendous combo inside,

like the complimenting her skills really like that. You know, Al Horford's sitting out there still. We'll see what happens to that Al Horford. I don't think he's going to the Lakers. Like, what have we talked about since the moment the Lakers traded for Luca Donchich? Well, they got to find a long-term center. they took about five minutes to trade for Mark Williams, then bailed on that five minutes later.

And now we're sitting here five months later. And the one deep position in the market, the center spot, virtually every option is off the board. The Lakers don't have anybody signed. It's not really clear what direction they're going to go in. And to your point, like Jake Borevia is a nice player. I think that's a fine signing for them. but maybe this means that they're going to do a trade with one of these various expiring contracts they have or with Austin Reeves or something to get a center.

But you certainly have to assume the Lakers are going to come out of this offseason with some sort of center long term. And as of now, it looks like the only way that's going to be is via trade. and, you know, I'm not sure immediately who makes sense for them to go get on that front. Yeah, now, I will say Capella or Lopez would not have been long-term solutions for L.A. They'd have been stopgap solutions. And Capella, frankly, at this point, is a quality backup. I was surprised that he landed back with Houston simply because, You know, they have two good bigs.

Alpair and Shingoon and Stephen Adams. You know, they valued him as a third big. They want to play a bunch of dual-big lineups, whatever. You know, I thought he was going to land with the Clippers. I thought he was going to reunite with James Harden, not with the Rockets. But when Lopez, like you said, everything, kind of the intel was pointing toward Brooke Lopez signing with the Lakers. When you saw Lopez to the Clippers, it's like, ooh. Okay, that's an issue.

But, you know, regardless, there's no, like, long-term solution on the horizon for Luca, unless I, in terms of pick and roll partner for Luca, unless, like you said, they pull a trade and I don't know, man. And again, you're telling me you don't think DeAndreit and lands with the Lakers, I'm not. telling you, I don't think he'd be a good fit with Luca anyway. If you're Luca and they haven't figured something out by August 2nd when you're eligible to sign your extension, maybe you just want to say, let's revisit that next summer. Look, I mean, Jason Quick, who is a longtime writer based in Portland who's covered the Blazers for many, many, many years. And he currently writes for the athletic.

Like he wrote a story tonight that, um, detailed one of the, some of the reasons why the Blazers, um, you know, moved on from DeAndre Aitin. And, you know, I'm not going to get in all of it right now. It's nothing like, you know, it's bad habits, not like it's anything sinister. But, um, you know, if I read that, I, you know, and assuming it's accurate, which, you know, quick is known for his accuracy. I wouldn't necessarily be, you know, saying that this guy's a make or break. Well, and the other thing is it's not like any of that stuff came as a surprise to anybody to leave. That's true. It's the same reason of Phoenix won't move off of them.

That's true. I agree. But, yeah, but, you know, the issue is that, you know, there's only so many times that you can, you know, add to your team. And this couple of days is one of them. And the Lakers have no centers on their roster. And Dory and Phenny Smith was a critical mid-season trade act. position for them that ended up being a short-term piece. And that's not necessarily what they gave up to get them,

but Finney Smith was a huge part of the Lakers' drastic defensive improvement in the second half of the season. And you can argue La Ravia is a much more versatile offensive player, but it's definitely a defensive downgrade. Yeah. We'll see. I'm considering LeBron and, you know, Rich Paul came out and said, we'd like to see if they build a championship team.

And then the first night of Free Agency didn't exactly produce steps forward. Like there was a lot of assumptions, you know, maybe not the best night for the Lakers. But there's more days and there's more assets to use. They have expiring contracts. They have some draft assets. Aiden's stats look impressive. And I'm sure that Laker fans would have been happy to have him, especially on some sort of discount. But I certainly would not declare them in the winner category.

Well, especially as other teams in the West get better around them. Now, here's a team that's been a winner for a lot of the last few years, but their team's just been depleted, and that's the Celtics. The Celtics are, you know, they traded away Chris Sperzengis, they traded away Drew Holiday, and they came into this week pretty sure that they were going to lose both Luke Cornett and Al Horford. Cornett, who I think has pretty much played on a minimum his whole career, rear.

Bontemps, don't you think? Like two ways and minimums? I think Bobby said... He signed one just above the minimum deal for a couple of years with the Bulls. Okay. A few years ago. And sort of, it's actually a pretty fascinating story for him because he was a guy, he came in with the Knicks.

He came out of Vanderbilt. And he was a guy who was seen as kind of a, you know, sort of a Brooke Lopez light. Guy was a seven-footer who could shoot the three a little bit. And has his shot completely deserted him. and he's reworked himself into a guy who, you know, sort of operates around the basket now doesn't really shoot at all and has turned into a very good center. It's been a really nice piece for the Celtics the last couple of years. And, you know, I think he's going to be a very interesting fit playing next to Victor Wenbiniamen now with the Spurs.

I remember a certain USWB telling us that Cornell is just going to stay with the Celtics on a minimum his whole career because he's loved in Boston. He'll transition the media gig. Things have changed. Well, yes. Thank goodness Bond him saying his agent. Well, listen, he was convinced to stay there last year, and it's one thing if you're staying on the Celtics and they have chances to win a title.

And it's another thing when the Celtics are not a team that looks like they can make the playoffs. And I think right now they look like a team that could struggle to make the playoffs, let alone be a contender. Yeah. So Jackson says the average career highs in minutes, rebounds, and assists this year. And anyway, he goes to the, um, The Spurs on a four-year, a four-year, $41 million contract.

Bobby, I think, Bobby Mark said that his career earnings to this point were $9 million total. So a huge moment for Luke and his family. When I was flying during the finals, conference finals and finals over the last few years, sometimes I flew with his family. He's got several kids, and his wife and kids would fly. Sometimes in the playoffs, you end up flying with the players' families. you get to kind of know him a little bit. So I'm really happy for his family.

We'll see if all four years if it is guaranteed, but, you know, and honestly I'm not going to focus on that because it's great for him. He will be a high-level backup, the Spurs Hope, to Victor Wimbunyama. But Al Horford is almost certainly going to sign elsewhere. You know, it looks like he's going to sign with the Warriors

that didn't get done tonight. Maybe he'll get done the next couple of days. So they're going to have lost, you know, basically all three of their, centers that they played in their rotation. They reacted to that by signing Luca Garza away from the Timberwolves. The Timberwolves lost Nikiel Alexander Walker and Luca Garza tonight. But Boston, you know, you said Bontems that they may struggle to make the playoffs.

We'll see. I think they still have some pretty good talent on their roster and the East is in flux. But I would just say that my position on this is they have identified, assuming there's no Jalen Brown trade coming, which I don't think there is. they've identified who their core three players are. And they're going to retain them and build around them. And yeah, they're going to have to work to rebuild the team around them. But they've identified their core three players.

All three of them are in their 20s. Actually, how old's Derek White? Is he in his 30? Yes, I believe so. I believe he's 31. I'll check. Okay. But he's in his prime.

And so he, I believe, is turning 31 in, in fact, it's actually turning 31 on Wednesday. Happy birthday, Derek. Happy pre-birthday to Derek Koy. All right. That's what they're going to do. They're going to have to restructure their role players around those guys. But those are their three core players. They're very good.

They're a championship core. They can climb back up to the mountaintop. But this is the second apron at work. Well, I mean, yes and no. It's the second apron at work, sort of. It's also they had arguably the most consequential injury in the history of the league happened in the second round of the playoffs. And it caused them to have to go in a completely different direction.

I still think if Jason Tatum doesn't get hurt in game four of that series, that they win the next three games and win that series. And they might have won the East. And I mean, they very well could have won the title still. Right. Yeah, but they still weren't paying Luke Cornett 40 million. Well, sure. It's a brave take from a man who lives in New York.

But go on. Well, listen, the Celtics, that injury totally shifted so many different things in the East. I don't think Desmond Bain gets traded to Orlando if that injury doesn't happen. Obviously, Indiana goes on to make the finals. you know, the way the Celtics team has been taken apart. Obviously, some of that stuff was going to have to happen because they weren't going to be able to go quite to that number. But at the Celtics that won the title, it would have been a fascinating question. How much would they have been willing to spend this year to try to go for the first repeat since the Lakers 25 years ago? Like,

that would have been something that would have had to be a real discussion, even if it's just for one more year. So that happens. And, you know, look, again, like Al Horford, if Jason Tatum's healthy, Al Horford, I can't imagine, is not playing on the Celtics this couple of season. But Jason Tatum's not healthy. The Celtics are not going to be a contender. Al Horford's going to go somewhere else. You know, it is going to be fascinating to see exactly how Boston approaches this season and what they do over the next couple of weeks and the next several months.

I mean, look, I still think there's a very good chance they try to get fully out of the luxury tax. It would make a lot of sense for them to reset their books completely. and get out of the tax. And they're only $13, $14 million into the tax right now. And they've got some expiring money. They can potentially move around. But they don't have a lot of size inside. You know, they obviously have Tatum out probably for the year.

Jalen Brown is recovering from a knee injury. We'll see how he is at the start of the year. But, you know, I don't think the Celtics are going to win 22 games. But I also think that if you told me right now to rank them in the east, I think they're a playing team. So, you know, there's a lot of, it's been a fascinating few weeks there, and it's probably going to be a very interesting week or so ahead to see what their team looks like after free agency is over.

And shedding salary was going to be a priority for the Celtics regardless of the circumstances. Like, you know, they're all season long. One of the big questions about the Celtics moving forward was, okay, hey, which of their core guys are they going to move to save money because they were so far into the tax? But it went from being a priority to the priority. Like if Tatum's healthy, I don't think they're moving both Holiday and Porzingus and letting Horford go and not keeping Cornet. And, you know, my understanding is they made the offers they felt that they could go to with Horford and Cornet. And it wasn't close.

It wasn't like difficult decisions for those guys to leave. But, you know, like with Cornett, $41 million from Spurs. Like, I don't know what that math works out to with the Celtics, but it's well into nine figures when you throw in tax. And so, you know, a gap year or reset year, whatever you want to call it, if they end up missing the playoffs, it's almost like, okay, cool. Then you get to add a lottery pick to the mix as you build, back up around that core.

You know, once Tadem returns for 26, 27, but, you know, it's not sexy. It's not fun. But slicing payroll is priority A, B, and C for the Celtics to summer. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. All right. Let's talk about some of the winners here. Let's start with the Atlanta Hawks. They acquired Alexander, Nikiel Alexander Walker, in a sign and trade.

with Minnesota. We could kind of tell that there just wasn't enough room. I think we talked about it on yesterday's podcast, and that turned out to be the way it was. And Minnesota accommodated gnaw because the Hawks had a trade exception, so they couldn't have signed him out right to this kind of money. So it was four years and was it $62 million? $62 million?

By the way, Bontem's not bad value for Nikila Alexander Walker, 15 and a half million a year. Like, yeah, that's pretty like, I mean, like, in addition to what you're acquiring a strong, uh, multi-talented, you know, combo guard who defends has great length that you can put alongside Dyson Daniels. Like, I don't think they overpaid for him. I think that was pretty good value. No, I mean, look, he was, he was the most popular free agent on the market this summer in

terms of guys who were going to be realistic options to change teams. And look, it's been. an incredible week for the Hawks. They get Christas Porzingis last week in a really slick deal with the Celtics, getting off the Terrence Mann contract for the cost of the 22nd pick in the draft, getting in a guy who's an elite rim protector slash three-point shooter when he's healthy. Every expectation he's going to play in Eurobasket this summer and be over the issues he had in Boston. Then they have the draft night trade with New Orleans.

We've talked plenty about that. That obviously could be Darren Peterson or AJ DeBanza or, Native met one of these elite prospects in next year's draft. Then it followed up by getting Alexander Walker, who's an incredible fit alongside. Can play him next to Trey Young, can play him next to Dyson Daniels, can play him on and off the ball. Very good three-point shooter, borderline 40% three-point shooter who can defend. And look, the Hawks, if you look at what they've done, they've, and they also sign, also tonight, by the way, they signed Luke Kinnard. You know, I think there was some potential for Karras Levert to also come back.

But when the bleak-beats the situation happened, Detroit goes and gets Karras Lever to replace his production there, that believes the Hawks getting to Luke Kinnard, another great shooter on the wing. And if you look at what the Hawks have done this last week under Ansi Sala, across the board, they've gone out and gotten shooting and length, and at least in the case,

Alexander Walker and Porzingis, defensive impact from those guys. And you can see, a real vision of how this team is going to want to play under Quinn Snyder. And there's, I think, a decent look at sort of what Quinn did with the Jazz and what this Hawks team is going to be. Not exactly the same, but Rudy Gobert and Chris S. Porzengis are similarly sized. You could do some similar things with Porzingis at the five.

And Yekka, Congo last year, started shooting a lot more threes towards the end of the year. They've got length and athleticism all over the place. they're going to be a terrific defensive team. And, you know, this is, we never really looked at Atlanta as a destination in a while. And like I said, Alexander Walker had his picket teams. He could have gone 10, 12 teams maybe. And yes, Atlanta could go over the mid-level. It's not like Atlanta, to your point, Brian, gave them $30 million over the mid-level, right?

Like he chose to go to Atlanta. So they paid a premium to make sure they could outbid all those other teams, but they didn't go crazy. No. I mean, if he wanted to go somewhere else, the money was negligible. Like, you could have taken a mid-level deal from somebody else if he wanted to be somewhere else. So I think the Hawks, I mean, we'll probably get to another team that we've talked about a bunch lately too. But I think the Hawks, at least in the East, are the clear biggest winners so far and for agency. And again, we go back to the Boston conversation. Like right now, I think Atlanta going into the season, Sumin Health, is the top four team in the East.

Like, they got a chance, I think, to be really, really good. Yeah, I think you can definitely make an argument that, Atlanta's the most improved team in the East. They've had the best summer in the Eastern Conference. I agree with you there. The reason I kind of grimaced a little bit when you compared this to the Jazz, I think the Jazz, after they scrapped the two big thing with favors, they definitely leaned into being an offense first team that was propped up on the

defensive end by one guy. I mean, they were a good defensive team because Rudy Gobert was like a generationally great defense. presence where I think this is a team. Obviously, look, Trey Young has major defensive limitations. He's a brilliant offensive player. And I think they've done a really good job of putting a cast around him that can mask his defensive issues. Dyson Daniels, one of the best on-ball slash wing defenders in the league.

You know, you mentioned Porzingis, a congo who is also a very effective defensive anchor. type of guy. Alexander Walker, you know, when he's on the floor with Daniels, like, they're going to be really tough defensively. They were two of the top deflection guys in the league last year. Yeah. Resaul Shay and Jalen Johnson, both long, you know, athletic. Johnson's like special at just like a top 2% in the NBA type of athlete.

Look, Kinar is not going to improve your defense, but he's going to shoot. I think he led the league in three-point shooting this year. Yeah, I mean, it's just. Yeah, and you're totally right. It's obviously not exactly the same thing, but it's just like you can see the basic vision, right? The Jazz had that big center in the middle who could protect the rim and then it had a ton of shooting around them. And obviously this team doesn't have the same level of shooting. It's a little different mix.

But like the clear priority this summer has been to get shooting and defensive length combined around Tray Young. And it's going to be very interesting to see if this Hawksford office can get an extension done with Tray Young. We could be a free agent in a year. He's got a player option for next summer. But they've mined their books. These contracts are good. They have a team that really makes sense around Trey. Like, they've had a great summer,

and it's going to be very fun to see what they look like next season. And then Aisunel, you know, who they traded down to get. I don't know how ready he is, but, you know, maybe he's ready to help as a rookie as well. They also have to, they don't have to, but Dyson Daniels is up for an extension. So I'll also be a very interesting negotiation. Yeah, for sure, because, you know, he was a guy who had, you know, explosive improvement defensively this last year.

I mean, defensively is the same guy. Offensively, he improved. And he was the most improved player in the league and all defense. And was a guy they identified as a got to have him in the Dejante Murray deal and ended up being a phenomenal acquisition for them. Yeah. Okay. Cavs Corner. Oh,

Cavs Corner. Oh, Cavs Corner. Wait, is a winner or a loser? The Cavs fans are really upset about Ty Jerome leaving to go to Memphis. He signed for three years, three years and 28 million. Slightly less.

Third-year player option. Right. Less per year than Sam Merrill has agreed to Merrill. Meryl four and 38. Basically the same deal, I think. Okay. It might be negligible difference. All right.

Well, one is, that's right. That's true. And the Cavs fans who fell in love with Ty Jerome last year and was a driver in their bench production, he was third and sixth man of the year. The Cavs fans don't understand why Sam Merrill was re-signed and Ty Jerome was not. They don't understand why they couldn't have signed them both. And Lonzo Ball, the Lonzo Ball trade, you know, Lonzo's health issues have been well documented, even though defensively he is better than Ty Jerome, assuming health.

And he's potentially more effective in a playoff setting where Ty Jerome was exposed by the Pacers last year. The Kaz fans are feeling a certain way about this. So would you call them a winner or a loser at this point, Bon Temps? Well, I mean, the cast fans can get mad, but, I mean, they didn't re-sign Ty Jerome because they're currently, according to Bobby Marx's numbers, $36 million into the luxury tax. That's why they didn't resign Ty Jerome. I think it would have cost them $100 million to give him a four-year, $38 million deal. And that's the whole point of the apron system and why things are set up the way they are. Now, you could say, why is Cleveland being penalized for spending money? But Dan Gilbert has just about as much money as anybody in the league

ownership-wise south of this side of Steve Ballmer. Dan Gilbert did spend $250 million. on Monday because he was awarded a WMBA expansion franchise. That's right. Cleveland Rockers, I assume they'll be called the Rockers. We had the Portland fire back. We had the Detroit Shock probably back. I didn't. I don't know if they'll be.

I guess they'll be the Rockers, but they're, they're, the, the Twitter handle, the X handle just says Cleveland WMBA. So I don't know if it's yet to be determined. I guess we'll,

I guess we'll see. But, but yeah, so like Dan Gilbert could spend all the, money in the world he wanted if it was just about the money. But look, at the end of the day, if you're asked me, would I rather have if I was a Cavs fan, Lonzo Ball and Sam Merrill or Ty Jerome and Isaac Caro. I'm taking Lonzo Ball and Sam Merrill.

Okay, but hold on. Why is it, like, why is it Lonzo Ball and Sam Merrill? And why isn't it, like, to me, it's Merrill or Jerome. Well, because you know, this is ball and still. had Jerome and not Merrill. Well, here's why I would say. The Cavs, I think at times this off scene, and Brian can check me on this.

He's certainly the denizen of Cavs Corner. But I think the Cavs, at times this summer, hope they could potentially keep both Sam Merrill and Ty Jerome, and it wasn't sure, they were not sure they'd be able to. The Cavs were working to get rid of Isaac Coro, in part to free up some salary to potentially, I think, keep both of those guys. And then when this Lonzo Ball deal,

came along and they could get lounso ball for asa koro who is a perfect fit for the calves team and also has a contract that they can get completely out of after this season then it turned into okay like what are you you know what are both of you guys going to do when sam merrill took a deal from the calves and tied jerome looked elsewhere for a contract so i i think like it's a you're correct to ask like why isn't it sam merrill or tied jerome i think the way it worked out it had a chance to be both of them coming back. And then when Lonzo ball showed up, then Sam Merrill resigns. And then there isn't really room for Ty Jerome in their rotation or in their balance sheet anymore.

But I, but so to me, if you just look at that trade, it's a win for the Cavs. I think Sam Merrill is a better fit as a potential playoff player. He's a better defensive player than Ty Jerome. He can play off the ball. And he's a great shooter. Obviously, the Cavs have plenty of on-ball stuff. with Darius Carlin, Donovan Mitchell, and even Evan Mobley may be doing more of that. And Lanzobal, when he could stay on the court, and his knees were fine last year, his wrist

was the reason he didn't play down the stretch in the season. If he can be on the court, he's exactly the kind of guy the Cavs need. He's a six, seven guy who can guard bigger wings. He's become a really good three-point shooter, incredible connector, incredible guy getting teams to outrun in the fast break, something to Cavs did excellently last year. I think I really like where the calves are at overall. And if you say, hey, we come out of this summer, we're into the second apron, and the one piece we lost was Ty Jerome, and we essentially replaced him with Lonzo Ball.

I think if I'm a Cavs fan, I'm feeling pretty good about where they sit in the east. And the question now is just can these guys all be healthy when they get to the playoffs, which they obviously were not in part during their loss of the Pacers. Yeah, so I don't really want to go too far deep into just analyzing the Cavs bench. but they had three players, Isaac Acoro, tied Jerome and Sam Merrill, and they were only going to be able to keep two.

Long story short. And their evaluation, by the way, they could have traded a Coro away and just traded them into somebody's space, but that was going to cost them something, you know,

draft capital. And so this, you could argue they should have had to, you could argue they should have had to pay draft capital of the Bulls, but the Bulls don't really like to get draft capital and trade, so they did.

Yeah, to get Lonzo Ball for him was definitely a win. it wasn't to the level of the Caruso trade where it's like how many picks are they get? None. But when you saw that trade, you definitely said... It was a similar chorus, though, of

really not getting anything with them, really? Anything? I mean, that was definitely a good trade for them. And look, you know Lonzo Ball's Minutes can't have to be managed and all that, but he's like, that's an upgrade for their bench for sure. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. All right.

Here's another team I have a question about, factoring in Desmond Bain, the Grizzlies, they get Jaron Jackson Jr. on a $240 million extension. They bought out Cole Anthony to help make room to do that extension. They traded up to get Cedric Coward on Draft Night with some of the Orlando Capitol. They lost Luke Canard, they lost Desmond Bain, and they signed Tideger. Rome. Are the Grizzlies in the winner or a loser category? I mean, I'm not sure I'd put in me either. Yeah. I think a lot of that probably depends on how Cedric Howard pans out.

You know, like the one certainty with Memphis coming out of last season was they were going to be building around Jared Jackson, Jr. I suspect that had there been a robust trade market for John Morant, even dating back to before the previous deadline, that perhaps Jock could have been the one traded and not Desmond Bain, but the way it played out was they... I forgot to, I'm sorry, I forgot to include that they got Contavius called Well Pope in that trade too. I'm sorry. Right. But that trade was about the draft capital in return and about acknowledging that the, you know, the, though we find in the West Grizzlies weren't fine in the West, and that that

group had hit its ceiling that wasn't that high and, you know, needed to be reshuffled. And again, needed to be reshuffled with Jaron Jackson Jr. as the centerpiece moving forward. I don't think that the Grizzlies got better this offseason. I do think that the, I know that the Grizzlies got more flexible moving forward. And, you know, that wasn't a trade that was about, I mean, Davis-Cowell-Post has been the final piece before. That's not what this is. You know, this is about acknowledging, hey, we're not close to contending and gather an

ammo to try to, you know, take steps forward in the years to come, not right now. So, you know what? I, oh, sorry, I didn't mean, I mean, you cut you out, McBan. I was thinking about it as you were talking. And they are clear winners. And they're clear winners because of what you just said, that Zach Kleinman, the GM of the team, looked at them. And we can go back to his press conference after the season, right?

It was a very refreshingly honest answer when he was asked about where they're at. And he said, look, if you want to try to argue that we're close to where we want to be, we're not. We're not close to being a contender, right? And so the piece that is sort of unsaid here is they have this pick, either there's Washington or Phoenix pick next year, very likely the Phoenix pick. And the sons are worse than they were a few couple weeks ago without Kevin Durant. And that's probably going to be a very juicy pick. It may not be quite as juicy as the pick that the Hawks got, but it could be in the same

range. And this is a team that has, again, part of it's, let's see what Cedric Howard looks like and how good he's going to be. But the Grizzlies were not in a position to be a real contender. I don't think they're a lot worse than they were at the end of the season. They might even be about the same team and they have a lot more long-term upside. So from that standpoint, I do think they're winners, even if it's not in the same vein as like a Houston or an Atlanta where it's like they got meaningfully better better. But I think by recognizing where they sat and pivoting and attacking the situation they're in, they've come out of this summer at a better position than they were a few weeks ago, even if that included trading a really good player and a really good guy in Desmond Day. And they had been a team that was acting as if they were close. Like the Marcus Smart trade was about trying to get a finishing type of piece.

You know, they were aggressive. They felt like they were on the, they felt like they were on like the five-yard line to get the Doran Finney Smith deal done last year. And then obviously he lands with the Lakers, but that was about trying to get. They tried to get OGN and OBMichael Bridges in the past two like guys that, you know, the kind of trades where you'd go, hey, we got a chance to really contend for a title with this group or contend for a West title. Didn't get them, but they were trying to.

And this is about surveying their team, surveying the West landscape and realizing like, hey, you know, let's reload in terms of assets, take our foot off the gas and give ourselves a better chance long term because short term, you're kind of button your head up against the wall. All right. What about the Denver Nuggets? I like it. I like it. Go on and lay out what they did. So they made. Okay.

Oh, here we go. They made a big splash tonight. Look, they haven't made it off top of my head. This is the biggest transaction they made since trading for Aaron Gordon. Do you disagree with that? Yeah, no, for sure. Okay, for sure. The only argument is the same team since then.

Right. Well, no, the only argument is when they, the summer when they added KCP and Bruce Brown, you know, was the finishing pieces of the championship team. But, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's true. That was the next year. But, you know, they're bringing back.

How did they get KCP? I can't remember. They traded for it? Well, Barton. Yeah. Traded Will Barton and somebody else to Washington. Okay. Well, all right.

Somebody else. Whatever. Anyway, they traded. This is huge for financial reasons and roster reset reasons. Right. So they traded Michael Porter Jr. And a 2032 unprotected, unprotected, unprotected first round pick to Brooklyn.

They're one pick to trade. Yeah. This was it for Cam Johnson. I believe just this year, Cam Johnson makes about $16 or $17 million less than Michael Porter. There's some unlikely bonuses in there that count, which is relevant with the apron, but it saved them a lot of money. And then subsequently they signed Bruce Brown, who was one of their unsung heroes,

or just heroes of the 2023 championship team, back to a contract. This transaction enabled them to, A, open up their full mid-level. level exception of 14 million should they want to use it, which, you know. That's a key clause. Should they want to use it? Which is what I watched. When it happened live for us on our free agency special on ESPN, I was like, wow, this trade gets a quality player and could enable them to sign a piece or two to, like, help

their depth. But then, Bontemps, you know, text me what I was talking about. He's like, you know, it got them out of the tax is what it did. Yes. as a repeater team. So it led me to believe, especially after I saw Bruce Brown sign for the minimum, it led me to believe whether this was a tax move.

But okay, you said you liked it, McMahon, so tell me why you liked it. Well, because they needed some financial relief. And to me, if they use, if there's a reason to use the mid-level, okay, but if they can duck the tax as a repeater team, that's huge, just to reset the clock. there. And look, Cameron Johnson has a lot of similarities to Michael Porter Jr. In terms of like movement shooter, big time three point threat, a guy who's going to feast off

of feeds from Nicola Yolkich. I think he's a pretty significant upgrade on the defensive end. Not as good of a rebounder. And then, you know, to bring Bruce Brown back, look, we all understand why Bruce ground left. Denver could not compete by rule with the offer that he got. The man had a chance to make $45 million in two years. This morning he's made in the rest of his career by like multiple times. But he was such an awesome fit with the Nuggets to bring him back. And basically he's taking Russ's spot in the rotation. It's such a better fit. I think that's a big boost for their bench. So I just think this makes sense financially. I think it makes sense for basketball reasons.

And look, the 2032 pick, that could very well end up being a steep, steep price to pay. But it's a price that you're paying after Joker's Prime. And to me, you got to do what you can to maximize your chances to contend during Joker's Prime. And I think this was a step in the right direction, a big step in the right direction on multiple fronts there. That's where I agree wholeheartedly with the first part. You have to do whatever you can to compete in Yokic's prime. And I vehemently disagree on the second part because I don't think this actually made them any better. Like when you're talking about an on-court thing, right, Michael Porter Jr.

and Cam Johnson are basically the same player. There's a little bit of different strengths and weaknesses. But Michael Porter is a big forward who's a close to 40 percent three-point shooter, good rebounder, flawed defender, if he health. but what he's out there, he's a solid player. He's durable the last couple of years. Yes. He's even playing through a significant shoulder injury, this playoffs. That's right.

Cam Johnson in the past has had his own health issues. He's been healthier in recent years and is a bigger wing, good shooter, like, okay defender, like same player, right? One guy is way cheaper. The Nuggets had one real trade asset. They traded it. it sure looks like to get out of the tax when they have the best player on the planet. They just went seven games with the Thunder, right?

And what did we all say coming out of that series? Denver's got to get more depth. They don't have enough players, right? And they come out of this summer and Bruce Brown replaces Russ in the rotation. Bruce Brown has been pretty bad the last two years. I'm sure he'll be better playing with Yokic, but still. He was pretty damn good in Denver. It was, and I think he'll be a good fit.

He could be a better fit than Russ, but he's not, he's been banged up and in and out of the lineup. And like, he just hasn't really been anywhere near the same player since he left. So we'll see what he is when he comes back. Doesn't seem like Westbrook's coming back. Obviously, Westbrook's a very flawed player. But we're sitting here now. Denver's traded their one chip. They're not any deeper.

They're a year older. They could use the full mid-level exception, to Brian's point, to go add an impact player of some sort, or even the tax Emily, if they want, I'm going to bet that they're not going to do that and they're going to stay out of the tax. And yes, you could say that Denver needs to reset the repeater tax, but this is not a team with a six-year window. And unlike the Celtics, they have Nicole Yolkich healthy. They pushed the thunder as much as any team last year. And if they had two more players who could play, they might have won that series. They might have won the title.

And if they'd had more depth the year before, they might have. might not have blown a 20-point lead in Game 7 against Minnesota, and I think they could have won the title that year. So now you're coming back with the team of year older without any way to really improve, and we're going to be talking about the same question potentially in February and March and April and May of, does Denver have enough depth? And to me, this is just a massive missed opportunity when the only real material change to the roster is that they just got a lot cheaper. If you have one trade chip and that's what you do, that's pretty hard to swing. swallow for me when you've got the best player on the planet who if he had a little more help

you could look at them against the thunder or anybody and think they got a real chance to win so yokech is going to get offered a contract extension here it's three years and like 205 million it's a lot of money sure is you probably should not say if everybody if anyone he ever offers you that you probably should not say no however if he waits till next summer he can sign for four years. I'm not saying that this decision is going to affect his decision. But if I was Yolkich and the and the nuggets come to me when they, I mean, Josh Cronky, their governor already said. They flat out said they're going to offer it to them. Yeah. When they come to you with the contract offer, I might ask them what their plans are with the salary for the next few years. Well, and, and,

And here's the thing. If you stay out of the tax this year, it's so you can be aggressive next year, right? It's to, maybe. It has to be. Now, if with Joker, that that's the one acceptable bit of logic to duck the tax this year. It's to reset. So you're not a repeater team. And hey, next year, full mid-level, you know, blah, blah, blah. Also, like, where is there depth? coming from, they need some of these young players to take steps. Peyton Watson's become a solid rotation player. He is an improved jumper away from being a really good role player. We'll see if he can make that kind of development. Julian Strather, you've seen flashes. Can he become a reliable reserve? You know, Jalen Pickett, fewer flashes, fewer opportunities.

He's probably going to get more opportunities. What can he do? You know, Duran Holmes a second. Yeah, he was their first round pick last year, missed all year with an Achilles, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, what's he looked like? It'll be interesting to see.

I believe he's playing summer league. I'm not certain on that, but it'll be interesting to see what he, but my point is they need, they need some of the internal development. Honestly, one of the massive whiffs for the for the nuggets is they use their full taxpayer MLE last year on Dario Sarish. and he was in the rotation for like a week and a half. And they realized, oh, jeesh. Yeah, and he got a player option, which he picked up. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's tough when you have as few kind of bites at the apple as the team in their position did to just. I just can't believe we're going to go into another season going to Denver Nuggets young guys have to be better. Like that's just not acceptable to me. It's just not an acceptable outcome when you have Nicola Yokic. Like, this isn't a theoretical situation. I mean, well, hold on. I'm going to say. that was their, you know, their take last year with letting KCP go and promoting Christian Brown to the starting line.

And Christian Brown had a hell of the season. And, but Christian Brown, we knew Christian Brown was good. The issue with that was not him being good. It was that they lost a good player. Don't they have to extend Christian Brown this off season? Yes, they have to pay him this summer and see what he extends for. Like they, like, the issue was, they, lost another good veteran player who fit with their team. And they didn't replace them,

just like they didn't replace Bruce Brown and they didn't replace Jeff Green before that. And we understood at the time why they did that. They weren't going to pay Jeff Green what he got paid. They weren't certainly going to pay Bruce Brown what he got paid. They couldn't. I get that. But we're now going into a third straight year with the same exact issue for a team with the best player on the planet on the team in his prime doing insane things on the court to the point where he feels inevitable when he's playing that he's going to win. And to just again have the exact same situation. And it even would be one thing if these guys had three or four first and he used one

to get out of the tax and then could use another one to go turn like say Zit Najee and Dariusarch into another player. Yeah. I'd feel totally differently about it. Like, hey, sure, good move, smart to get out of the tax, et cetera. You have one chip and you turn it into basically getting out of. of the tax for the same team. It's just hard for me to stomach that.

You keep saying one chip. I don't think Michael Porter Jr. on that contract had some kind of immense trade value. Well, no, my point is, the chip is the draft pick. They use the draft pick to get the same, basically the same player just for half the money. Like that the team isn't better. Like the team is the same. They're just a lot cheaper.

Sam Crocky's got a gazillion dollars. Like, I'm sure Nicole Oka's sitting there going, yeah, like, we got the same team. We didn't have enough talent before. I guess I'm looking at, I'm looking at getting out of the tax as a part of a two-year strategy to improve the roster. And you're looking at it as being cheap. So I think that's where probably we're being differently. All right. The last team I want to talk about is a Rockets.

I said on TV tonight that they're on an organizational hot streak from their draft picks to their development to their free agency to their trades. Somebody talked about the yesterday. Yeah, anyway, they signed Dorian Finney Smith today. They signed Clint Capella. They're going to have to, I think they're going to have to offload a salary, which some people think is going to be Cam Whitmore. Well, they could also just cut Jack Landale.

Yeah, they're going to have to do some sort of sign and trade to fit Capelli. and I'm not... No, I think that should go... That should be part of the Durant trade once it's all done. All right, well, whatever. Anyway, Houston, we've already talked about him a lot, but they use their mid-level essentially

on Dorian Finney Smith and also bring in Quinn Capella. I will say this. In the Western Conference, you have to have size. One thing we talked about for the last six, eight months was size and depth, depth and size. You need to have that in the minimum. modern NBA, by retaining Stephen Adams and going and getting Clint Capella, and then you have

Shengun and then you have Jabari Smith. I mean, they have incredible optionality and how they can organize their front line. And also get Stephen Adams time off during the regular season, which is pretty key because they need to keep up. I was a little surprised by the Capella signing. So was I. Honestly, I thought Capella was going to end up. I think Shams said it was fully guaranteed, which that was surprised me as well, too. Yeah, I thought he was heading for a reunion with Hardin, but obviously Lopez ended up there. And he does join a very crowded center rotation, but the Rockets really liked that two big center lineup that they kind of found and

rolled with late in the season and was a big factor for them in their playoff series against the Warriors. They want to have the option of playing the two big center lineup. on a night-to-night basis, they understand and accept that, hey, Stephen Adams is not playing 82 games. He's not playing 70 games. Maybe he plays 60 games. Maybe it's a little bit fewer than that. You know, we'll see.

And obviously, now they can play him 40 games. You can basically just alternate him and Clint every other game and get him through the season. I think that's the, to me, that's the biggest reason to do this deal. Exactly. They're going to be very careful managing Stephen Adams' minutes. Now they can do that with Capella and still. have the, you know, the flexibility to play too bigs. There's, you know, it's insurance in that way and just with whatever health things might come up. The Finney Smith signing, I love. I mean,

I am a, like, I've always liked Finney Smith. Obviously saw him develop himself from an undrafted guy into a really good role player in Dallas. I think he's the kind of guy who can make good teams better and has proven that in Dallas, prove that with the Lakers last year. And they lost some toughness. They lost, you know, defense with Dylan Brooks being part of the KD trade. He's not going to guard the Steph Curry's. He's not going to be the primary on-ball defender against star guards, but he damn sure can hold his own against bigger wings and power forwards and even a lot of centers, and he's a really good spot-up three-point shooter. So I think Finney Smith's a great fit for them, and they are deep, man. They've got a deep-wing rotation. They've got a deep, big

rotation. And then, you know, I think, I think Reed Shepard, you know, how much he can give them next year is going to be kind of quietly a key factor and how good the rockets are. Did we talk about during Finney Smith leaving the Lakers as part of the Laker thing? Or do we just talk about centers? It just, it is interesting. that the guy who's incredibly coastal Luca left the Lakers and they could have kept them. That's, I think, just something to monitor. A guy who drastically improved their defense. Also, I'm not certain they could have kept him. I really think being able to get back to Texas for family reasons, for tax reasons, for

as he says, a country boy, I think those are all factors too. I'm not sure that this is a case of the Lakers could have just, you know, paid him and everything would have been fine. I think Finney Smith liked the situation used to better. That's fair, but it is worth mentioning or monitoring that a guy who's incredibly close to Luca, who they got last year, left this summer and didn't leave for, like, this wasn't a Bruce Brown situation, right? Now, it may have been exactly what you said. I'm not saying it isn't, but they didn't get outbid on them.

Like he ended up signing up signing for Les Garland. guaranteed next year they had on the option yet. So just another reason this was not exactly a banner opening day for the Lakers. All right. It's a banner opening day for you, Bontems. We should. It's always a banner day for you. Was it? Can I say something amazing that happened today? Please. McMahon. Yeah, it's your podcast. So I was here in the hotel in L.A. And I'm on the phone with bond temps. Sorry.

Yeah. So very unfortunate for you. And I'm walking, you know, I'm, I got AirPods in. I'm walking through the lobby of the hotel. During the windy shuffle. Yeah. Doing the windy shuffle. That's exactly right.

Being recognized, McMahon. You'll be shocked to know. With AirPods so he's can. Yeah. Okay. So I see a friendly face, a friend of the pod, in fact. Oh. And I embrace him.

And, uh, well, Well, he's getting that. Okay. Let him tell the story. Let him cook. I have it back and forth. It's an NBA, someone from the NBA who's been on the podcast. You know him.

And Bontemp's just hears his voice. Just hears his voice. And it's not a guy whose voice you hear very often. And I cannot believe he knew he recognized his voice and knew who it was. It was James Capers, the referee. Who was here with his family members to go. to the Dodgers game tonight. Oh, okay. Which is, I'd love to go to the Dodgers game. But nice guy about five, four, like doesn't that, like I'm just going to say, it's kind of freaked

me out that Bon Temps recognized James Caper's voice over my AirPods. I mean, he's on the, listen, Kate. We're having a conversation with him and he's somebody were friends. I didn't say, hey, how was the referee in this year? Like, you know, I said nothing about who it was. There's a couple things here. One, Capers was on the pod. Two, like he is a man you know all bond teams pays close attention during those replay challenges and whatnot. Cain crew chief gets a lot of airtime. I was

saw him during the finals. Three, nobody kisses ref but more than Bon Tems. I see these guys. Oh my God. I mean, it is just like hob, knobbing and I have to try to make up for your attacking them all the time to make sure

that we don't get bad reviews on the pot. Well, I also feel like I'm listening. Bond Timps is especially friendly with all the wee little fellows. He's not a wee little fellow. Yes, he's a subsequent. We should probably talk about the bucks a little bit too before we go, right?

The bucks are in flux, and there may be another signing that they do tonight. And so we're going to put them off. Yeah, we're going to try to give Jackson a break and not having to do form editing. Fine by me. So the bucks are, we'll see what happens with the bucks. I don't think it's like, you know, they're not trading the honest tonight, just to be clear. Like, it's just, um, no, that I know of. You didn't make any inappropriate jokes to Jackson has to edit out this time.

So that's good. I didn't think that joke was inappropriate. I didn't either. I thought, I think Jackson's gone a little bit soft. I think he's, you know what? Jackson's management now, so he's gotten a little uppity, little stuffy. Yeah. There was a joke that was edited.

It actually wasn't a joke. It was just a passing line. It was just a, it was a remark. You know, he'll probably edit out my, my, uh, uh, rough short jokes because I did give Jackson multiple two smalls during the media pickup run in OKC. He probably has edited all this out. This is all probably not going out. I would hope so. I would hope so for his sake and the listener's sake. All right. Thank you for listening and watching Hooked Collective. Thank you to Blair who helped us out on the pod tonight. We learned that Blair is in the middle of the summer here. It's July for crying out loud in your, you don't have air conditioning in your apartment. It's not working. I mean, this is terrible news. I mean, it's 2012.

also a poor post defender. Matt. Can you, can you just leave everyone alone? Just give everybody a break. Dude, listen. People here are helping us out with the pod. They're trying to get it out to the people and you're just slaughtering people.

I'm just, I'm being, it's an honest scatter report, dude. Sure. Just like the, just like the, just like the Yokets 30, 30 30 30 30, 30, 30, scouting report from your own game is.

Oh, bang on. Those borders are confirmed. Mm. Yes. Sure. All right. we'll talk to you. I don't know. I don't know how many times we're freaking potting this week. Okay. Check every day. I can't do it much more. I can't take much more of you people.

Wow. Pontemps, we got a whole little diva on our hands. Also, he's sure. We sure do. I understand the sensitivity. I'd like to apologize and just bid you farewell with the Adios amigos.