Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Bulls Finally Moving In Right Direction + Playoff Seeding Battles You Need To Watch

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to the Bulls firing VP Arturas Karnisovas & GM Marc Eversley including how Chicago could finally be moving in the right direction. Plus, why the matchup between the Hawks & Cavs is so intriguing from a playoff seeding perspective before talking how Denver’s big wins of late could aid them in their quest for a deep playoff run. Finally, is it time for the Lakers to shut down LeBron for the rest of the regular season so he is ready for the playoffs? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome the HOOP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon,

joining us from New York City before he runs down to, is it the Garden or Barclays? I don't even know. The Garden had a heck of a game on Monday night, but is Timbontems. I'm not in New York City. I am in Boston. Oh, you're in Boston.

Where I'm going to watch Charlotte in Boston play in a little while. No, we're not going to start over. That's even better. Hello, everybody. Hello, everybody from Boston, where Charlotte and Boston will be playing in a couple hours of what's going to be a very interesting Eastern Conference Showdown that has some implications for Cavs Corps.

From down the hall or across the street, I guess, here in Los Angeles, and just off the set of NBA today, headed later on over to Crypto.com Arena to see the Thunder play the Lakers in a game that probably is not going to be that interesting, is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners, it will be the South Bay Lakers tonight,

just to be clear about that. Hey, Bontemps went back to Boston his old stomping grounds, and they said, let us push you right in the VIP room, baby. Here's some plywood. And I'm just, I wanted to be in a quiet corner where nobody was going to be coming behind us. So I'm outside the media room. All right. Okay. So we had a first significant personnel adjustment in the NBA on Monday when the Bulls, after six years, made a change to their front office, firing our tourists.

Karnasovish and Mark Eversley, President and General Manager. Michael Reinsdorf, who is the son of primary owner, Jerry Reinsdorf, and pretty much the guy who's been running the team, he made the hire of our tourists. He has given an interview this afternoon to talk about this. If you've listened to this podcast at all, you've known that we've viewed the Bulls as sort of a lost cause for a couple of years now, because they've been dead stuck in the middle and been stuck in the middle. I don't really want to rehash backwards, but I will say that the day,

I'm pretty sure we did a podcast, the day that they traded for Nikola Vucevich, two first-round pick. It was Wendell Carter, two first, one of which was a lottery pick, which became Franz Wagner. Both were lottery picks.

I just want to say, I recall, if I recall correctly, Jackson, the two of you hated it with a capital H. And pretty much ever since that trade, the Bulls have been circling the drain. And our tourists and Mark have been on pretty much an organizational losing streak in their decisions. I wouldn't say every decision was bad,

but most of them did not work out. And you can kind of, you can go back further, but that trade, which sort of made, you know, they sort of made a win now trade and then didn't win now.

that's kind of why I think we're here to the day. That's like to me to be the tipping point, Fontems, unless you have a, does you disagree with that? No, I mean, look, I think Jamal, Jamal Collier, our colleague in a story that Bobby, Jeremy Wu and myself all contributed to about the decision to move on from those guys. I don't remember if it was Jamal or a source called it the original sin in their situation. And it is.

Like, you know, Arturis, I think he had in there, Arturis in the future looking back at it, said that's the kind of move we should have made at the end rather than the beginning of trying to build a contending team. I would argue you shouldn't build it, do it at either end of trying to put together a contending team because Nick Vucevic has been on the same kind of teams forever for a reason. Now, ironically, he is here in Boston playing for the Celtics in a supplementary role, which is where he can be useful. But look, the irony of the situation in Chicago is that this has a chance to be a pretty good job now.

you've got a clean cap sheet going forward. They have the Blazers pick, which if Portland makes the playoffs, conveys, so they could have the 15th or 16th pick in a loaded draft. They have the chance to have a number one pick or worse, the 9th or 10th pick in a very good draft. So you got two first round picks. Commodas Bezellis is interesting. There's no bad contracts.

Like, it's actually set up pretty well to have somebody come in and do the job. And frankly, that's why it was imperative. The Bulls made this decision now. because you have the opportunity to go out and get somebody good to come in with a blank slate and put together a competitive team. And if they had gone into this summer and made a bunch of moves and done a bunch of stuff with the roster, it might not be that case a year from now. So I actually think the timing of this could be pretty good for Chicago if they go out

and hire somebody good and put them in the job and they go out and do the things that Arturis really did not do over the past six years, which is, you know, coherently have a plan to build out a really good team in Chicago. And look, the other thing I'll say is, ownership there has proven you're going to get a long extended tenure to try to build the team. That's true. That is true. They've only had three real executive tenures in 40 years.

So like, you're going to have an opportunity to build this thing if you do it right. So I do think there's a lot of positives come out of it. Jamal reported earlier Tuesday that they're going to use a search firm. Michael confirmed that. We'll see what happens to Billy Donovan. I'm sure we'll talk about that. But yeah, I mean, this was a decision that I think people around the league were just wondering when it was going to happen.

Would it be this year? Would it be any year? Would it be after that? And the fact that happens now gives this team a chance to, you know, turn the page that could be an opportune time to do so. Yeah, the Bulls crime was that they refused to rebuild. And, you know, the Vooch trade was a win-now trade for a team that didn't have a chance to really win. And they just, they doubled down on that by giving them a con. contract extension. This was a team. You know, Wendy, as you repeatedly said, all roads lead to

39. They finally got off of that road. Better late than never, but they finally got off that road. They pulled the plug. It was too late because in this tank race, they were, you know, too far out ahead. Just put a real pin in that real quick. Not only was it too late because they waited too long to tank this year when the draft was so good. They also waited too long to get anything of value for their players. Like they had Kobe White and I had to assume Two of the best things that Arturis did Was signed Kobe White now Signed those guys to the deals they were on

Right And they waited so long to trade them On the deals they were on That they hardly got anything back for them If they traded Kobe White two years ago Or in IO two years ago They might have multiple firsts Instead they got a couple

Instead they got a couple of seconds That all just goes back to the overwhelming lack of any sort of coherent plan which is why we're sitting here having this conversation right now. Yeah, and Michael Reinsdorf said in his press conference today that he, I don't think he used these exact words, he was two hands off, but I think he was saying, I need to maybe hold my hire a little bit more accountable because our tourists, you know, didn't excel in communication and I was sort of removed. He basically was saying, I let him work. So, you know, and with when you

don't have oversight like that. You know, sometimes, you know, look, if you've won three championships, okay. But if you don't have oversight and you don't have that kind of pressure, you know, you sometimes can get stuck on these things. Going forward, I don't think the answer is Michael Rinesdorf being real hands on. I think the answer is hiring somebody who's more competent. It's a very similar situation to be real quick that is going on in Tim's hometown. Like, both those owners had people in the jobs that they let do the job.

which if you have somebody really good in the job, that's great. If you have somebody that advises you to trade two first for Nick Vucevich or to trade Luca Donchich and you listen to them, that's bad. Like, obviously, it's different levels of bad, but it's bad. But seriously, like if you're an executive, you want to walk into a job where ownership's not going to get involved, the rhinstores are not going to do that. It's a place where you can get players. Chicago is a place where players are going to want to play.

Kind of. I think it's a place where players are going to want to play. I mean, the team has not been good, but you can get people to come play in Chicago. They've had some success in free agency. I wouldn't say it's a free agent destination. Boston wasn't a free agency destination at one point either, and they've gotten a bunch of guys to come play here. If you have a good team, guys are going to come play there. Well, I do agree that you've got a better chance in Chicago than Salt Lake.

No offense to the jazz. I'm just, they're free agents. They both have cap space this summer. Yeah, it's a big market team with. a, you know, rabid fan base. They, as you said, they do have cap space now. What differentiates the Dallas situation from the Chicago situation is Dallas very clearly has the dude who's going to be the foundation of their team for as long as they can keep Cooper flag there.

And Chicago is looking for that type. Chicago needs that type of guy that they can build around. They've got some good players. They don't have the dude who's going to be a perennial NBA selection. What Michael Reinsdorf said today pretty much made it sound like not only does he want Billy Donovan to remain as the head coach,

he went so far as to say that if he talked to a candidate who wasn't sold on Billy Donovan, they would probably find another candidate because not so much... And that flies in the face of not meddling his ownership. If you're going to hire someone competent, you have to hire someone competent

and let them run the show. I don't know if Billy's sticking around, but not only does he want him to. stick around. It sounds like he wants him to have a bigger role. So here's what he said, quote, I'll probably push Billy to be more involved. And if Donovan came to him to suggest a Brad Stevens type of role, and that essentially is leave the coaching staff and go run the front office, he says, quote, I would sit down and listen to Billy. If I was, I'm sure Billy Donovan already knew all this, but if I was listening to this podcast or Billy Donovan, I would start

thinking about a lot of things right now. Look, if Billy Donovan wanted to be running the Bulls, he'd be running the Bulls already. And that's been the case for a while. So none of this is really, I think, any sort of surprise. The Bridesaurus really like him. They have really liked him. That has been very clear to anybody who has been around the Bulls at all. And look, Billy, I just saw Billy a few days ago. He's had a ton of personal tragedy over the past couple of months. His mother-in-law passed away. His father passed away. His mom has had some health issues, all in a brief span of time. Just had a grandkid in the middle of all that. to like there's been a ton of personal stuff that's gone on.

The team is obviously not in a good place right now. He is going to potentially have options to go other places if he wants to this summer. I think he has the ability to pursue that if he wants to. So I think the first question I think is, does Billy want to be in Chicago or not? And does he want to, what does he want to do? And then I think the question will be, will he be involved going forward with the Bulls and in what capacity. But I would also say that Billy Donovan is about the most well-like guy in the league. I think if you have an executive come in and it's like, hey, Billy's going to be the coach,

I don't see that being some massive impediment to people taking the job in Chicago. I get what you're saying, McMahon, about not being involved from an ownership standpoint. But if the one stipulation of the job is if Billy wants to be the coach, he's going to be the coach, I do not foresee that being a thing that somebody coming in to do the job, go, you know what, I can't work with Billy Donovan. Like I think that part, he's not Larry Brown, right? Like he's not, or some other person who's had all sorts of friction with people in the past. Like, that's just not how he operates.

But it does set up an interesting conversation, I think, over the next week or two, which is what is Billy Donovan going to do? And he was always going to get to the end of the season and see what his options were going to be. We thought one of them might be North Carolina. Obviously, our colleague Michael Malone has that job. So now that's off the board. But it will be interesting to see what Billy does. No more dinners with you and me, McMahon.

He's done with us. That's a big upgrade for him. I'll have to get somebody else to pay for the pizza that I swipe from you. He was a North Carolina fan throughout the whole year. He talked a lot about North Carolina. I did not see that coming at all. Well, his daughter is played volleyball there to be clear. He also, but, you know, and I'm happy for him.

I didn't see it coming, but it makes a lot of sense. He talked about how awesome it was to be able to be a father this year. year and obviously he'll get to watch at least a lot of her home games and good for him. You know, wish him luck going to the college ranks. Yeah, his daughter was a freshman at North Carolina, or he is a freshman in North Carolina. She played her first volleyball season last fall, and he went to a lot of the games, was on campus a lot. She went, I think, from not being a starter to being a starter, and she was started in the NCAA. They pulled some upset in the first round of the NCAA tournament, and she was, she played

really well in that match. So, yeah, so he was spending a lot of time there. So that was a surprise, but it also meant that Billy Donovan didn't get the North Carolina job. And therefore, unless he's up for another college job that we don't know about, he has some time. You know, the college, the transfer portal and all that stuff, if you wanted to be a head coach, you pretty much got to get started immediately.

Now that that is not something that is on Billy Donovan's plate, again, that I'm aware of. I think this allows for more time. Yeah, but the expectation was always that he wasn't going to college anyway, and this was maybe one job he would look at. But, you know, now I think it's either NBA or bust. And then frankly, I think what happened with Malone, when we had him having to catch a pitch, you know, cropped down into the catch, he stands and catch a pitch from Perk,

who, like, Perk ain't thrown too many baseballs in his life. So really, tough on the knees. I think at that point he was like, I've got to get back to coaching. Yeah, this is huge. He did, I think, unless he was, you know, running an elaborate ruse, I think he did enjoy his time this year. But we all, I think most of us knew it was going to be a one-year thing, likely. I will say that if Billy Donovan got out of his contract with the Bulls, he does have time. He would be great on TV.

Well, he'd be great on TV, but I would tell you that he would have, there will be teams that would want to hire him in the NBA. Oh, yes. No question. For sure. He's going to have options. And that's part of why it's going to be interesting to see what happens. It's not like he, again, it hits his decision whether he wants to be in Chicago or not, and part of that decision will be the possibility of going elsewhere if he chooses to.

Like, he's going to have options. I like this quote, Rinesdorf-on-Tank is from Jamal Collier. That's just not who we are as an organization. Has this man watched the last month and a half? Well, he also claimed that, you know, there was never any contract extension given to our tourists and Eversley. And of course, they've got contract extensions. That's, it's...

He's not under oath. It's fine. It's just disingenuous, but whatever. He's always been nice to me. I don't want to insult them. I will just say... Actions over words. They were in the job for six years.

They didn't get seven-year contracts. I think they had one playoff victory in six years. Yeah, that's right. I will say that, unfortunately, I think we're going to, this is not the first time we're going to be talking about a firing. I think there's going to be quite a few. when we get to our podcast next Tuesday, we record next Tuesday,

I'm afraid a majority of that podcast is going to be talking about gentlemen who lost their jobs. So while I don't want to get in that game of eyeing ones, we certainly know that there's going to be some changes. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right. So Wednesday night,

it's on ESPN. And yes, please watch, but it's not just doing shameless promotion. Cavs play the Hawks, okay? Cavs corner, baby. This is a potential first round series. Cavs are in fourth. They have clinched at least getting a top four seed. They will have home court in the first round.

As of right now, the Hawks have clinched nothing. I guess they've clinched being at least in the play-in. They can fall back as far as 10th, although I find that very unlikely. They'd have to lose out and a lot of things would have to happen. Right. But, you know, and then things might even happen tonight that would take that off the board. But it's not locked in that they're free of 10th yet, but they are in fifth. Now, here's why this is interesting.

In a game that potentially has a chance to be one of the most fascinating of this week, the Knicks beat the Hawks on Monday night in a barn burner, which included a half-court shot that C.J. McCollum knocked in one-tenth of a second too late. It might not have been one-tenth of a second late. Might have been less. It was close. just his tippy, tippy, tipy, tipy, tipy fingertips. The inverse of Aaron Gordon.

It's like the inverse of the Aaron Gordon play. Yes, from the playoffs last year gets to Clippers, yes. So that game kept the Knicks a game in front of the Cavs for the three seed. With the tiebreaker. It's effectively a two-game lead because of the Knicks have the tiebreaker. The Cavs won in Memphis on Monday in a game where they allowed 29 made three-pointers. The Grizzlies made 29 three-pointers and lost, which is a different. topic for a different...

Who's making all those three-pointers? Anyways, go on. You haven't heard of them. That's a hint. There were guys on 10 days making threes. Okay, so, bond temps. This is the situation the calves are in. They do not play well against the Boston Celtics this year.

They were one and three. They might have been... I don't even know if they beat them. But it was lopsided. The Celtics are the best team in the East right now. No offense to the Pistons. The Pistons are right there. But the Celtics, when playing the best basketball in the East, they are going to get the

two-seat. If the calves finish fourth, they, they, can avoid the Celtics on their side of the bracket. And if the calves lose to the Atlanta Hawks, who they play the next two games, they can increase the chances of the Hawks being their opponent and make sure that the Raptors, who they were 0 and 3 against, not that I'm saying they're afraid of raptors, but they were 0.3 against the Raptors. They played them way back before the New Year, but the Raptors did beat the Cavs up this year, and the 76ers who are maybe the most dangerous team in the Eastern Conference,

who are fully healthy right now and Embed is hitting James Hardness stepbacks. They have the potential to keep Philly and Toronto back there and invite... And Charlotte. And Charlotte, correct.

Buzz City Killers only 27 and 8 in their last 35 games of the plus 12 net rating coming into tonight's game here in Boston. So... So, Buntems. The one thing you didn't add there, Brian, we've mentioned this a couple times on the pod.

Not only do they play Wednesday night in Cleveland, they play Friday night in Atlanta. the two teams. So the Cavs really, if they want to, could basically guarantee they're in the four playing Atlanta and the five if they were to say rest some people in those two games and allow Atlanta to get a couple of victories. Do you guys, do you guys remember the Daniel O'Too post-up outbreak that the Clippers had in Oklahoma City? I believe it was in Oklahoma City. It was definitely against Oklahoma City. And I forgot who they played the game before, but it was like two games were Daniel O'Too, who now is putting in that. very good numbers in China, had like 50-something post-ups, and they were working hard to dictate.

I think it was more about not necessarily the first-round matchup, but they did dictate that they played the Mavericks in the first round or they'd beat in the year before. I think it was really more about getting on the opposite side of the bracket of the Lakers. And this is a case where, honestly, it makes sense to be on the opposite side of the bracket of the Celtics, who are considered the pretty clear favorite in the Eastern Conference despite the fact that the Pistons are the top seed.

In that game, by the way, just for people's memory, Daniel O'Tour was 5 for 21 from the field in 37 minutes in a game that the Thunder won by five points. Oh, and that was not the Thunder. That was the OKC Tanker. It was that error. That was the Point Poku game. That's right.

Or Poku went bonkers running point in that game. That's right. That's right. Okay. So now the Cavs have had a number of players sit out the last couple of games with injury, including Donovan Mitchell. Evan Mowgli missed one of the games. Jared Allen missed one of the games. They rotated guys in now the lineup against tankers. Right, but they've had quote unquote guys who have injuries. Right. So it's a national television game. The player participation policy is in effect. Oh. So the question here is what will the calves do? Now the Cavs could play this game straight up and lose it anyway. But it is of all the games, that are played, however many 1,200 whatever in the NBA, this one is a little bit more interesting, the menu of situations. Now, the calves put out the injury report just before we did this pod, and there is nobody on their injury report listed as out, including Dean Wade and Jalen Tyson, two guys who are not necessarily going to define a playoff series. However, those guys have missed the last week, and they're listed as questionable, as is Donovan Mitchell. As is Donovan Mitchell, yes, who's been dealing with his own ankle sprain. The Cavs are hinting that they're going to play to win this game against the Hawks.

It doesn't mean that they will play all those guys full minutes, but they are hinting they're going to play to win. And that is interesting, Bontemps. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting on a couple of levels. I mean, the Knicks, for a reminder, have these three games end their season. They've got Boston at home all at the garden. You have Boston on Thursday, Toronto on Friday, and Charlotte on Sunday. Obviously, all teams that for different reasons will have things to play for and are, I mean, I guess Boston in theory, might, they basically want to have anything to play for if they beat Charlotte Tuesday night.

But the Celtics will play that game, I would suspect, at the guard. So the Knicks could lose all those games. And sitting after these two games for the Cavs against the Hawks is a game against the Wizards, who could be in a position where if they lose that game and continue to lose games as they have been, could guarantee themselves having no worse than the fifth pick in the draft. And I suspect, after all the losing the lizards have done, they will be making sure that they are no lower than the fifth pick in the draft. So going out on a limb. Well, that's what makes these two games against Atlanta particularly interesting because if the Cavs lose those two games, they guarantee themselves the four.

And it does pretty much guarantee Atlanta. It does guarantee, in fact, Atlanta would be the five, because all the teams behind them could get no higher than 47 wins. I guess there's a world where Toronto wins out, but I don't think Toronto's winning in the final four games. So it is going to be interesting to see how this game goes on Wednesday night because if the calves do lose it, like if they play it out and lose, my guess is they probably sit everybody on Friday anyway in Atlanta and the Hawks get another win. The calves are locked into the four seed and they're playing Atlanta in the first round. One other thing to note totally unrelated from an injury standpoint.

Cade Cunningham was listed as doubtful for the game on Monday night. he's now questionable for the game on Wednesday. Certainly seems like Cade Cunningham is on the verge of return from this collapsed lung, which A, is great from just seeing him be getting ready to play. And B, it certainly would be nice, you know, assuming knock on what everything goes well the next couple of days to get Cade Cunningham back out on the court

and get his legs under him a little bit before the playoffs. That obviously is a pretty big development for the Eastern Conference standings. Now, he cannot salvage his award. eligibility though can't he cannot no he can't he will not get enough games for that and to me he's the guy who's really just getting the worst into the deal on that and completely i mean the guy got hurt diving on the floor for a loose ball the complete opposite against the wizards load management yeah like there is no nothing further from load management right diving on the floor for a loose ball against the wizards um i you know the good the fortunately this is not going to offend

his contract, he already got his Supermax, but the intent of the rule and the result with Cade Cunningham on complete polar opposite ends at the spectrum. Yeah. Cleveland is 18th in the league in defense since the All-Star break, which is roughly around the James Hardin trade.

He played a couple of games before the All-Star break. Their three-point defense has been rough for most of the season and certainly was rough against Memphis, although they had, you know, both teams had guys in and out. Well, and you've been banging the drum, Ryan, that they've been playing all these tankers and not exactly looking great for a while.

They keep picking up wins, but they're not exactly inspiring victories. No, the Cavs, like, there's something like 26 and 5 in their last 31 games, and they've won like seven out of eight road games, but there's a few good wins in there, but you generally look at that, and you're like, I'm not blown away. And so on one hand, you could just flat out say the Cavs can forget about who they're, they're lined up with that they don't start getting some stops and start, you know, their offense has been very good. You know, they've shown, you know, dangerous offense.

But they don't start getting some stops. It doesn't matter who they're playing. Like, that's a reasonable thing to say. And if it is Atlanta in the first round, like Atlanta can light you up if you're not playing well defensively. Jalen Johnson's had an all-NBA season. The Keel Alexander Walker has been unbelievable. Emerging as a, you know, a 20-plus point per game score.

they've been really good since C.J. McCollum's been there and in the starting lineup, they can score. I agree. They're a little bit susceptible on the interior, but, you know, they're going to press you on the perimeter. So, you know, the calves might just say forget about this positioning. We got to get something, you know, when they're, they've guys have been banged up. We've got to get some level of, of consistency and some rhythm going because Kenny Atkinson, I believe, is approaching starting his 40th different lineup of the season. which is not something that you would normally see from a team that's gone over 50 wins, which they did against Memphis. So I would just say, and I was talking to someone the other day who has a bet on the calves over or under.

I think it was 52 and a half. I think it was higher than, I mean, that would have had to drop. I think it was closer to 60 earlier. No, no, no. But it was. I want to say 53. Well, maybe. It was 53.

Anyway. You don't know when the. bet was made. True. That's fair. That's true. I think the individual told me that it was 53 and a half. So that was the case of not winning it anyway now. So I guess that's true. Well, anyway, maybe we're discussing over-under bets? Because I think the spurs have won so many games this year that I should automatically win last year's debt too, and you owe me two dinners now. It's not the way that it works. That is not how it works, believe it or not. Though in the world of shifting to ban things. If the other The cabs over under, Beth, there's a possibility I think that you care about how they approach these two games.

But it certainly is interesting, and it will give you a mindset into where the calves are, how they handle this. Like I said, the instantaneous view here is that they may be trying to go normal and go full out here, but I don't know, you could create a case that they shouldn't go that way. So go that way. So we'll see. So we saw a very big game already this week where the Knicks beat the Hawks. another key game that happened in the West this week. The Nuggets coming from way back. The Blazers were as hot as you could possibly be for three-point range.

I think they made 16 threes in the first half of their game against the Nuggets. The Nuggets come back and win the game in overtime for their ninth consecutive win. And more importantly than all that, Bontemps, they take over the number three seed in the Western Conference. And frankly, I don't know if they're going to be getting. giving it back, especially with the status of the Lakers going forward. We're doing this before the Lakers played the Thunder on Tuesday. But the Nuggets, I wouldn't say their last two games have been, you know,

dominant by any stretch the way they beat the Spurs and then came back on the Blazers, but they are winning. They are showing incredible offense. They've basically been the league's best offense over the last month. Yokic is putting up enormous numbers. They are hitting three-pointers at a stunning. rate and now they've gotten themselves into a position where they're on the opposite side of the bracket than the thunder and they've had a little bit of success against the spurs this year so

i know health is everything erin gordon is currently healthy that's how they're going to affect it but the nuggets have worked themselves into a great position with especially with those last two big wins yeah i mean that was a huge game on monday night for a variety of reasons you have uh blazers who were trying to get into the top eight in the Western Conference, get into that 7-8 game and get the ability to have to win one of two rather than win two to get into the playoffs at all. And then you had Denver, who, like you said, is in this position where they've got the tie break on the Rockets, I believe.

So all they've got to do is match them and wins. And we certainly know where the Lakers stand. So if they had won that, if they had lost that game, would open the door to falling out of the three, which they didn't want. And again, you had Portland in a position where they could really control their own destiny. And you mentioned that the nuggets came back.

They're down 16 with eight minutes to go. It was not like this was a, you know, a five-point game with a couple minutes to go. They were dead and buried in a lot of ways and come flying all the way back. And what wasn't at the end of the game? It was like you said, Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and Nicole Ovoosovic,

or Nicole Yolichich. Not Nicole Yovovovovic. Talk about him earlier. And quite a slightly different player. And if you have faith in Denver in the playoffs as a team that can get all the way through to the end, it's because of those three guys and the synergy they have and the chemistry they have. It's unbelievable to see Aaron Gordon nailing these huge threes and shooting the way he is now. I mean, this is a guy who came in the league as a rugged, you know, super athletic,

do a lot of things player, but not a guy who you thought of as a lights out three-point shooter. Now every time he shoots it, I think it's going in. and especially from the corners. And adding that to his game has fundamentally changed his game in this latter part of his career. And there's just those three guys just have unbelievable chemistry together in it.

It's going to give them a chance in any series. And we talked a lot about that Spurs Nuggets game Saturday night. Those two teams meet in the second round, it's going to be an incredible series to watch. And like you said, that win, with Memphis coming up on Wednesday, a game, Denver certainly should win

and then playing an Oklahoma City team on Friday that probably's not going to have much incentive to play the game. You're all, but certainly after that win, seeing looking at Denver, getting into the three and setting up certainly what could be at absolutely Titanic war in the second round, assuming Victor's healthy, coming off this rib thing and the spurs get there.

Yeah, and, you know, when you talk about the Nuggets, people talk so much about one of the best two-man games in the history of the league with Joker and Murray. but it is a three-man, you know, it's a trio. They have a championship trio, and Aaron Gordon's health makes all the difference in the world. Unfortunately, the last couple of seasons, he's had a lot of issues, you know, soft tissue injuries, calf strains, hamstring strains. It's knocked him out a lot.

But when he is healthy, they have a chance to beat anybody that you put in front of them. You know, they pushed the thunder to seven games last year. And we've talked about him being the duct tape for them defensively. If they don't have him on defense, they stink on that end of the floor. When they do have him, even though the spurs let them up, who was guarding Victor Wimidiamma down to stretch and making him take and miss tough shots? It's Aaron Gordon.

You know, he cleans up so much for them. He takes tough assignments for them there. I think, though, people might underrate his impact for them offensively. In bottom, you mentioned the three-point shooting. Over the last two seasons, as interrupted as they've been, he's shooting almost 42% from three, and he's got such great chemistry with Joker in particular, whether it's diving to the rim,

the cutting, the timing on that, how many times has Joker fed him for dunks and layups over the years, or that huge three that he hit, he's in the dunker spot, and he's figuring out like, okay, am I going to cut to the rim? No, he sees it, he feels he backpedals to the corner, swish. Gordon is as good of a glue guy type of role player as there is in the league right now.

And if he's healthy, they're 100% an elite team and a championship contender. Point out the Blazers made 25-3 pointers in this game. So that means on Monday that the Blazers made 25-3s. That wasn't overtime, but nonetheless, and lost. And the Grizzlies made 29-3s and lost. 29-3s tied the most ever in a game. By the way, you know the last team. to beat the nuggets? I do not. Do you know the last team to lose to the Grizzlies?

It was the Memphis Grizzlies, I believe. Yeah, it was that bizarre rescheduled. Yep. Oh, that's crazy back-to-back in Memphis. After earlier in the season, the Grizzlies had to spend, or I'm sorry, the Nuggets had to spend

a few nights in the Bron James' favorite hotel. And by the way, they not only did they make 25 threes. They went 25 for 52 from three. They shot 48%. If you shoot 48% on 52-3s in a game. I know. that's a game you're going to win the vast majority of the time,

no matter who you're playing in any setting. So Denver really pulled a rabbit out of a hat, and in doing so, set themselves up rather nicely. And, you know, the Blazers are playing the Clippers coming up here this week. That's a pretty important game. And that game, I believe, on Friday, I'm double checking. Yeah, on Friday at home in Portland, and that game will determine the tiebreaker.

So, you know, we'll see if Victor's able to play on Wednesday. He had this rib thing. He left the win over the sixers with on Monday. He's got to play in one more game for at least 20 minutes to be award eligible. The injured port's not out as of 530 Eastern when we're doing this pod on Tuesday. But, you know, Portland has still got a chance to get into that top eight, but certainly would have been a heck of a lot closer if they'd managed to seal that one in Denver Monday night. Denver's schedule, by the way, they have the Grizzlies.

I'm going to assume they're going to get their payback. there. Friday night they have the Thunder. The Grizzies are going to make sure of it. Yeah, that's right. Payback. You owe us one. You owe us a butt-wopin. Anyways, Friday night to have OKC in Denver. We will see, but OKC might have the top seed clenched. And we talked about if you're going to manipulate matchups, certainly sitting the OKC blew up there to help

the Nuggets get on the opposite side of the bracket. It would make sense. It will be fascinating to see if there's a chance for Denver to get knocked back on the last day of the regular season when the nuggets in the season in San Antonio. I should point out that to Monty Kamara, the big man from the Blazers, made eight threes in that game on Monday.

In his last four games, he's made 24 of them. He's got over 200 made this year. He's turned himself into a good three-point shooter and now this year a volume three-point shooter. And boy, is that painful for Phoenix Suns fans to see? Remember, he was a six. second round pick.

Well, you've got to bring that up. Why you got to bring up old stuff? Like, that's years ago. I'm sorry. I promise you, any Suns fan listening, that's the first thing they thought of is why do we have to attach him to eight and get that damn deal done? Well, the Thunder do play the Clippers on Wednesday night here in L.A.

And Shea typically plays on back-to-backs. We'll see now that they're in great shape to get the one, assuming no stub toes, the Thunder are in really good shape. But that complicates the Clippers attempts to avoid the double play-ins. situation, but really would have done it if the Blazers had been able to pull off that victory. So, but Denver, they have this, you know, you mentioned that they finish at San Antonio. They play, is that, is that, you say the Oklahoma City Blue, is that game also in Oklahoma City? It's in Denver. It's in Denver. Okay. I'm just saying they might send, they might send some guys

in the coach seats on that one. A ton of incentive to compete in the game if they win the two games in LA. I would say there is an incentive not to. More hoop collective podcast after this. I want to keep things of perspective, everything we've got going on in our world of what qualifies as as a disaster from a basketball NBA standpoint. We talk about the NBA. We talk about the NBA. That Lakers' turn of events is a disaster. To have two players go down like that in the same moment. We talked about it a couple days ago and just getting back here to L.A. and feeling it like, and then you lose in Dallas when LeBron has 30 and 15. Well, because they were flying so high after a 15 win March.

Luke was playing the best basketball of his career. The pecking orders to find. Look out. Are the Lakers really a legit contender now? Oh, my goodness. Well, that, you know, they get, and they just get smacked by the thunder. And now there's fingerpoint over whose fault it was that Reeves and Luke were playing through stuff in the third quarter when bad went worse. And oh, my gosh. What a phenomenal march and what an awful first week of April. I saw the Mavericks at their team hotel earlier today, McMahon. They were getting ready to go play the Clippers.

Oh, was there any lobbying? No lobbying. No lobbying. No lobbying. Oh, you're in the lobby? No, there was no love about Cooper flag. I think Cooper flag. No, I think Cooper lets his game do the talk. I think for the most part. It spoke pretty loudly over the weekend to see what he does against the Clippers. So the Lakers ruled LeBron out for the game that's going to be tonight against the Thunder.

It doesn't seem like they're really thinking that they're going to have a great chance to win that one. And it looks to me, Bontemps, like the Lakers have accepted potential reality that, you know, that they're not going to be the three seed. and that they may need to just take steps to keep what they've got healthy going into next week. And that seems what they may be doing with giving LeBron some time off. And honestly, like, they're going to try to try to keep home court. They have the tiebreaker edge on Houston. I think that should be a priority. But they got to prioritize LeBron's health.

He's played a lot of minutes in the last week. Yeah, I mean, look, they have a game against Utah, which they certainly should win. Utah is fine with it. I don't see them beating anybody else this week. If it was me, I would put LeBron and bubble wrap the rest of the week. I wouldn't play them again. And I would try to just give them as much time as possible to get ready for what's almost certainly going to be a first round series, like you said, against Houston.

I wouldn't be too concerned if I were them, whether I'm at home or on the road, ultimately. I mean, obviously, it'd be nice if they're at home. But, you know, look, the plan certainly doesn't seem like Luke Dodger-Jat-Jrasner, you should be available. So let's just assume they're not going to be. So if they're not available, the plan of attack has to be fairly simple. You give the ball of LeBron, you spread the floor with shooting, and for two weeks you hope he can set up open three-point shooters, which he's done his whole life.

And if you bomb away from three, hit a bunch of shots, and try to get it close at the end of the game, where the Rockets have consistently been a very poor late-game execution team. Like, I'm not saying that's a scenario where I feel great about the Lakers' chances out Luke and Austin Reeves, but that's at least a scenario you could talk yourselves into where maybe LeBron can guile it out for two weeks. You can steal some games.

Maybe you steal a series and hope that by the time you're playing the Thunder, the reinforcements are back. Now, again, that sets up a whole host of other problems, given how the Lakers have looked against the Thunder went healthy, let alone with these guys coming back from injury. But, you know, you got to figure out the best path forward. and if anything happens to LeBron this week, there is no path forward at that point.

So it'll be interesting to see what the Lakers do. I mean, obviously, if they could find a way to steal the game against Golden State on Thursday, you know, Steph is back. That's probably not a game. I would favor the Lakers to win either now. But, you know, if you win that game, maybe you could find a way to stay in four, depending on what happens with the Rockets and keep home court,

which would be good. But, yeah, priority this week needs to just be about, Keeping LeBrien healthy and getting ready for the playoffs because I don't think they're catching three. Houston's going into tonight's game in Phoenix, which is their last road game of the year. Their last three games are home. They've won six in a row. And they've put up some really good offense. They've been shooting the three-pointer really well, which hadn't been the case for the whole season.

Reed Shepard's been hot. They wiggled out of that game at Golden State a couple days ago when they dealt with Steph going. And listen, anytime the rockets can survive a fourth quarter, it wasn't their best fourth quarter. They had, I believe, an eight-point lead going into the fourth, and they held on for dear life. But listen, I have watched them not hold on for dear life in numerous games. So I'll give them that. And that was a game where I think Jabari Smith had a good shooting game. They had five threes in that game.

they're in position, McMahon. So they're a game back of the Lakers. The Lakers have the tie break. So functionally, they've got to make up two games. But their schedule is, like I said, at Phoenix and then home games to finish. You know, the Lakers, the door is open. The Rockets can, you know, the Nuggets have moved into three.

The Rockets could stock on the Lakers at four. Yeah, and the Rockets are playing better. You know, Imeodoka is kind of going matchup based on the starting line up now, whether it's going to be Reed Shepard or Tarysen. You know, clearly, the Lakers are the team that the Rockets are hoping to see in the first round. And JJ Redic, all but he said, we've got to extend our season to give Luke and Austin Reeves a chance to get back. I mean, best case scenarios, that means extend the first round into the Lakers. later games more than likely means win at least a round without them. And then, you know, you're talking about the workload on the brawn.

Like I asked JJ about that pregame in Dallas. He acknowledged, yeah, it's absolutely a concern. And you see that with him sitting out tonight. You know, they're trying to figure out, like, whatever, who else can initiate offense for them? Marcus Smart is also out right now. I mean, Luke Conard was the other guy initiating an offense for them. He's a catch and shoot guy. He had a triple double against the Mavericks.

But like Luke Kinnard initiating offense, if he's being defended by Amin Thompson or Tar Yessen, like that doesn't sound very appealing or effective. But LeBron is 41 years old. Now, at least in the first round, the games, it's not like every other night. You know, the schedule is a little bit more spread out. But, man, I mean, I know LeBron is one of one in the all-time exception. But even him, at 41 years old, he can't be happy. having games, you know, stacking on top of each other with these 30 plus usage rates. And he was awesome in Dallas.

I mean, 30 points, 15 assists. Honestly, if guys were catching the ball clean, you're making layups or hitting open shots, he could easily have 20 assists in that game. But the idea of LeBron's just going to play at an MVP level every single night, that's not much of a playoff plan. Well, and it's worth point out just on the other side of this game tonight. So Phoenix currently is in seventh. They're pretty much locked into being seven.

However, if they beat Houston Tuesday night, which obviously you'll know by the time the pod comes out, whether they win. And it is a home game, like certainly have a real chance to win that game. Their final three games are home against Dallas, should be a win at the Lakers, which at this point, frankly, should be a win.

And at the Thunder, the final game of the season, where Oklahoma City, well, they have absolutely nothing to play for. So I'm going to assume if the sons need to win the game, that's a win. Now, they have the tiebreaker on Minnesota, who still does not have Anthony Edwards available, still does not have Gene McDaniels available,

has not exactly been flying along. They've lost three in a row. Now they're playing the Pacers. Tuesday night, the Pacers have some flexibility to win. They have a bunch of guys out, though I doubt Indiana's winning the game. But they are at Orlando,

at Houston, and home for the Pelicans, who have been playing a little better and also have no incentive to lose the game. So they got to win two of these four if the Suns win out. The Suns win tonight, pretty good bet. The Suns are going to win out.

So there is at least a world where a Minnesota team that has already dealing with Anthony Edwards being banged up and is having some issues could have to do a little bit of work this week to avoid being in the plan, which certainly would be a disastrous outcome compared to where we thought that could be the three seed as recently as a week two ago. So just that's something to bear in mind, especially if Phoenix wins this game. against Houston. There's going to be, the world's going to do a little bit of work no matter what to get that sixth seed, if that's the case. But what if LeBron does pull it off?

Listen, never say never. Yeah, I mean, I will say this. Like, it's obviously an incredible bummer. The Lakers fans are still in their stages of loss. It's kind of a free roll. It's not what, you know, you want at age 41. You're not the business to have. It's a total free role.

No one's going to pick the Lakers to win that series. they're going to be without their two perimeter scores. Right. And their MVP candidate. Like, you know, now it doesn't mean I certainly am going to be one of the people thinking they're not going to win the series. But, you know, there is at least a pathway there for them to do it. Like, there's a formula they could lean into. It's, I mean, this worked for LeBron for a long time.

LeBron's trying to buy three shooters. Like, you know, we've seen it work before. It's not LeBron at 41. but no. Hey, who knows? They might need to load manage him during the series. I'm not even kidding. They might need to like sit him for one of the road games during the series.

But it is astounding how awesome of an athlete LeBron still is. Like some of the drives and dunks or the transition stuff, like at 41 years old, this guy, you know, KD, when when they're, went through Houston, Katie said, I think he can play until 45, easy. I don't doubt it. I don't know about all that, but I do think that's one of the supreme bummers this Lakers season is that not only was Luca playing great, but LeBron had really gotten to a place physically where he was making a big difference.

Now, part of the reason he got to that place is because he had the lesser role where they didn't have to put so much on his shoulders. True. But, you know, his job is to take on the giant role for seven games. I will say, though, we saw the two games. against the thunder. Like what I am not really going to be here for, and I'm not saying you're doing this, Brian,

is the, oh, the Lakers had figured it out, and a run was incoming. And they were going to get to the, like, you know, Houston, with the CP3 thing back in the day, oh, one hamstring away. This was not a hamstring away. That was a stretch at the time because it was conveniently forgotten by everybody in Houston,

that Andre Goddala also had a hamstring, which is why the series is even kind of competitive. And setting that aside, this Lakers team did not have the depth. It's necessary to go toe to toe to toe with the thunder or these other teams. I know you didn't. I wasn't saying that about you. I never made hotel reservations in L.A.

It wasn't happening. It wasn't happening for sure. But it is still a bummer. You don't want to see guys like this go out with a week to go in the regular seat. Like, nobody wants to see that ever. It stinks. But it didn't rob the Lakers of some great run after they figured things out late in the sluss. Now, after we've said all that, they'll probably upset the Thunder today.

No, that's actually not going to happen. I still need to make some reservations in Boston for the finals. Well, you have bad news for you, buddy, because the... They're pretty pricey. Yes. And not true. Yeah. Not my dad.

There's also the 250th, you're going to run into the, I don't know what you call, 250th anniversary of the United States, but that's happening there too. So look forward to that. All right. By the way, yesterday was checking out Get Up and what to I see? But the best looking guy and the McMahon. family, his 13-year-old son, Liam, showing up on national television, eating waffles. Wow, taking shots at his twin brother, badmouthed and a 13-year-old kid, my other boy,

Luca? Man, Wendy, it's a low-boy. Well, Liam agrees. Why do you got to pick, why are you going to choose favorite? It was pretty cool to see. Yeah, he just, you know, I said to go ahead, check it out. You know, it was a commercial break. And he did not anticipate making a national TV appearance.

I think he might have left a waffle in the kitchen if that was the case. Well, he wasn't, just to be clear, he wasn't on live TV. He didn't, like, stumbled in. That was a commercial break. Yeah, and then, but the producers loved it. You know, I'll tell you one thing. Those get up producers, don't give them an inch. They'll take a foot.

They don't miss a trick, for sure. They don't miss a trick. I'll just take you back to that one time when I was in Phoenix at five in the morning, and they were like, Brian, why are you talking so quietly? We can barely hear you on Mike. And this was in the break and I was like, oh, it was because the woman in the next room, you know, told me to shut the bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, because it was so early in the morning. Well, they couldn't wait to run with that on the air five seconds later. I tell you, I do apologize for every single time that I mocked the windy sleep updates now that I'm getting a dose of these things.

Yeah. In time, you'll come to fully understand my burden. Wow. We have some hope for you, Bontems. We'll see. All right, thank you very much to Jackson and Mark, who produced. Thank you so much for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week.

Adios megos.