Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Cade Injury Make East Wide Open? + Did Bucks Wait Too Long To Trade Giannis?

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Vince Goodwill and Anthony Slater to discuss if Cade Cunningham’s injury will prevent Detroit from a deep playoff run and if it will open up the Eastern Conference any more. Then, we discuss the Giannis injury and the Bucks’ desire to shut him down for the season including if Milwaukee should be looking to trade him this offseason. Finally, we break down some interesting postgame quotes from Jaylen Brown before talking if Boston is taking control of the Eastern Conference. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome the Who Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which is doing on Thursday afternoon while all you guys are watching college basketball. We're podcasting and keeping all these guys and our producers from watching.

But that's the way it goes. Joining us from New York City. By the way. Oh, you're watching. All right. Yeah, look, the Duke game. Right. I'll let y'all know. All right.

Yeah, it'll be days later. It'll be, you know, hours later. They'll all know. But joining us from New York City is Vince Goodwell. What up, though, Wendy? How are you? You know while you're in New York City and you're stopping grounds of Detroit, that is where Anthony Slater joins us from today. It's only appropriate that we have some Detroit voice here. I had a very Vince and Goodwill Day today. I went to the Pistons. I think new facility, how recent is their practice facility? It's nice. About four or five years. Yeah.

Yeah. And Jerry Stackhouse, Warriors assistant coach now, was in there working out. And I was joking with him. Like, it wasn't this nice when you played here, right? But we were also looking at all, they have all the retired jerseys up in the facility or at least the numbers up there. And I was surprised to see Dennis Rodman. Maybe I'm just too young and I just don't remember the Rodman era of Pistons well enough to know that it would be retired. But I was asking Steve Kerr about it. And should I have been surprised? That was the best version of Dennis Rodman that we've seen. You just remember the wildness.

But Dennis Rodman and Detroit was the best defender we've ever seen in basketball because he could defend one through five. and then it became the best rebound who we've ever seen. Yeah, Steve made that point. When I said, I was like, Rodman, really? He's like, you should have seen him as a defender at that time.

And then his other point was winning. You get, you know, accolades come with winning. Because my other point was Stackhouse is over there working out in the weight room. I was like, oh, no Stackhouse. I guess that shouldn't surprise me. He probably didn't have that type of career there. He had like five years in Detroit.

He didn't play her ever long. Stackhouse's biggest contribution to the Pistons was he was traded for Rip Hamilton. It's a pretty big contribution. He was on the, the wall, Rip Hamilton. Winning. Joe Dumars, Vince,

Joe Dumars went through the streak of transactions he made from 2002 to drafting Darko. It stopped like a brick wall then. But he went through a three-year span of transactions. Not only the draft

picks and the trade, but also the contracts that he traded, that was as hot of a run for an executive in the modern era of the NBA. Like, remember what he started off with. He started off with Grant Hill leaving going to Orlando, and then he said, okay, I'm going to get Ben Wallace out of this.

Right, like he got Ben Wallace in a sign and trade for Grant Hill, Hall of Famer. Yep. And then he drafted, he drafted Tayshan Prince, like 23rd. Yeah, in the 20s. He signed Chauncee Billups to a six-year mid-level contract. Choncy Belps, like every year was making like $5 million. in leading them to 55 wins. Trades Jerry Stackhouse for Rip Hamilton.

Pistons Hall of Famer. Like, what else am I missinvince? Like, drafted like Jason Max Seal in the second round. Traded for Rashid Wallace at the trade deadline of 2004. Well, that was a big one. Yeah, one of the most impactful deadline deals ever, right? Ever, ever. I want to look up.

What was in that Rashid Wallace trade? That was John. If I remember, John Barry. Mike James, Lindsey Hunter went out and also wound up coming back. Lindsey Hunter? A first round pick, I want to say. Remember, she was rerouted from Portland to Atlanta, where he spent one game with Stephen Jackson. One game with Atlanta had like 20 points and six rebounds or whatever it was against New Jersey,

didn't get traded to Detroit on the day of the deadline. So that was like a three-way deal. And yeah, I got it. Here it is. The Pistons received Rashid Wallace and Mike James. The Hawks got Zub. Velcro-Rabracia. Jellico-Rabracha.

Zellie. We forgot you, Rabatcha. Bobby Surra. Oh, yeah. Bobby Surra recently. Is that right? Yeah, he's like a professional poker player, I think. Is that right?

Yeah. Both up. 2004, the Pistons pick in 2004, which I'm going to go look up who it was. The Celtics got Chuck Chuckie Atkins. as Mace used to call him. Lindsay Huntaw and a 2004 first-round pick from Detroit. So Detroit did trade two firsts in that deal. You know what I think that Atlanta?

You know what I think that Atlanta pick became? I think that Atlanta pick became future Detroit Piston Josh Smith. Is that right? Okay. Well, that was a good, that was a good piece. I think it was. I think it was. But then Lindsay Hunter came back.

He did the buyout and come back, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Anyway, where we are and here we are walking down memory lane again. Well, I can bring it to modern right now. Joe Dumars is paired with Troy Weaver in New Orleans. And Troy Weaver drafted much of the core that represents this newest era of business basketball,

which I think we're going to talk about. He certainly drafted Cade Cunningham. I think he drafted Cade Cunningham. Yeah, he did. Out of on this college basketball week? I believe they call them the pokes down yonder. They do. They do.

By the way, did you, I'm not going to, we're too far off line. We've got to focus on the now. We talk about the NBA. I'm sorry. Jackson's got to get me back on track here. All right.

Bummer about Cade Cunningham. So this play, the other day, Cade's playing in Washington. I think it's on Tuesday night. And it's five minutes into the game. It's a loose ball.

He's playing defense. I think he was playing defense. He was he, he dies for the loose ball. And Trey Johnson, the rookie of the wizards, like, nothing malicious. He just goes for the loose ball. And his knee hits Cade in the side, like in the flank. And, like, you saw it and you're like, I bet that hurt.

And Cade left the game, didn't play. You know, they said back spasms. And Vince, hot damn, it is a collapsed lung. Like, that is, oh, man, that is a, I mean, look, there are obviously a lot of injuries that are worse, but that is no fun. Now, you've been on TV talking about what the Pistons are saying, and I'll let you say that. But I will say that if he got a collapse long without breaking a rib, that is a good sign. He's still going to be in a lot of pain, but that is a good sign.

And they did not announce a rib injury when they announced this injury. Yeah, that's the critical thing that I've heard this morning was that they're glad, even though the news is pretty bad. they're glad that this was not a broken rib because a broken rib means something catastrophic. Essentially, like it's not like you can, if you're playing football, you can just shoot it up or whatever it is.

Like it would be almost the end of this season. Collapsed lung. Here's the timeline, people. The Pistons came out this afternoon and said where he's going to be re-evaluating in two weeks. Assuming this injury is mild, he's going to have the two weeks where you can't do anything, right? Can't fly, bro.

Right. No, they had to drive him home. They had to drive him home from D.C. Yeah, everything's painful, right? So after the two-week period, the hope is that for one week he will be able to engage in non-basketball, non-contact basketball activities. And then in the fourth week, the hope is that he will be able to participate in contact basketball activities to get his win back to figure things out. If that's the case, that puts you at April 14th. The regular season will have concluded.

I think it's April 13th. It's the final day, at least for Detroit. The NBA playoffs began April 18th that next Saturday, which is an extra four or five days because of the playing and everything else. So best case scenario for this, they're hoping that he will be back for game one, depending on that's Saturday or Sunday, how the NBA schedules it. And now the concern is just, will the Pistons hold on to the number one seed in the meantime because they have nothing in nobody that can take the place of what Kay Cunningham does.

Wendy, there is not a player more valuable to his team. That's right. In terms of shot creation amongst the really good teams in the league, then Detroit is with Kay Cunningham. So you can't replace that. And your only hope is that you don't capsize for the last 14 games of the season, which could very well happen anyway. Also, I also don't, I think oftentimes, like the one seed down the stretch of these races

is a little overrated, you know. I mean, I think that we're going to. It's like the drama of the moment. Oklahoma City in San Antonio, we felt like that might be a thing in the last month. We'll see it still could be. But also, like, if they fell to the two seed, and I think that's about as far as they're going to fall.

I don't think the Knicks, I think, are five back, and they already have the tiebreaker. I don't think the Knicks will gain. Right. They got the tiebreaker. They got the tiebreaker. That I can verify. That should be like a three game tie break.

Don't have to look it up. Yes. So the furthest they'll probably fall is still two. And if you look at, you know, you don't know who's going to be a tougher matchup between seven and eight because it's all a bunch of jumbled teams down there who all, by the way, look dangerous. And that is what I would say is the bigger danger here is that if he's either limited or unavailable to start the first round. Like it's not a walkover if you're the one seed or

if you're the two seed. Sure, you know, you'd like to have home court throughout the East playoffs, but also at the same time, if you just guarantee like a healthy K. Cuttingham and, you know, by mid-May, I don't think it's that big a deal. If a one-two, you know, materializes that, oh, they have to win one game in Boston in a playoff series. I will look at their schedule here, Vince. It's pretty daunting quietly. Yeah, I agree. The next two nights aren't too bad.

I know that. All right. I'm here for one of them. All right. You're waiting on them in Detroit right there. So they play the Wizards tonight. We're doing this pot on Thursday afternoon. Look, Jalen Duren had 36 and 12 the other night.

Obviously, Bam had 83. Porzengis had 30. Or Zingas had 30. I guess the Wizards, by the way, that's what we're saying. Yeah, if I were the pistons, I would suggest getting it done tonight just to bank that win. That is Golden State at home. The Warriors have lost, what, eight of nine? Six of seven.

Six of seven. All right. I don't want to get ahead of myself. Yeah, and I'm waiting to see, I should know soon probably in the next 10 minutes on there. Because that's the front side of a back-to-back. And in the previous one, they rested a bunch of guys on the front side to go after the backside. I could see without Cade, they're playing at Atlanta on Saturday. I could see the worries maybe going after the Detroit game, but I should know soon.

Okay. So that's Washington Golden State. Then on Monday, they got the Lakers. Red Hot Lakers. Who are hot. I don't know if you heard. You saw ESPN at all in the last seven to ten years. Then they play Atlanta at home.

Now Atlanta. Red hot. By the way, like, that's a potential first round matchup, I might point out. Then Thursday they played New Orleans, which the Orleans is, 14 and 10 in their last 24 games as we're recording this. Joe do more. No incentive to lose. James Borago is making a bid to keep that job.

Stop playing the rookies as much, either attacking the basket like crazy. We see you James Borago. We're not going to spend a whole lot of time talking about the Pelicans, but I'm just going to say we see you, James Barago, and the pelicans who have no incentive to give up and they are not giving up. That's no easy game. At Minnesota, you know, I don't know if Aunt will be back by then. It could go either way. It's still a road game. Team Minnesota.

And remember they got into it last year. Remember they got into the big brouhaha in Minneapolis this time last year. So that will have a little extra heat, as they say in the wrestling world. Then after at Minnesota, at Oklahoma City, don't like their chances there. Sorry. Then against Toronto at home, Toronto plays better on the road than they do at home. So a playoff team. Then verse Minnesota at home.

I don't know if it's going to be back. Same thing applies. then they play four of their last five on the road at Philly, at Orlando, two teams that could need to win those games. Right now, Orlando is fighting to stay out of the playing. Milwaukee at home, we'll talk about the bucks later. You'd like to see if you can get that one. That's on ESPN the last week of the season.

And then they finish at Charlotte, at Indiana. Charlotte could be in a seeding battle in Indiana's tanking. That's not easy. It's a four-game lead in the lost column, but it's not easy. And the tiebreaker. They do have the tiebreaker over the Celtics. Important there. That adds an extra game.

And also, hey, I'll do this quick, but these are some of the games the Celtics have. Timberwolves, Thunder, two Hawks games, two Charlotte games, Nicks, Orlando on the last day of the regular season, Toronto. They have a couple tank and mixed in there. But it's about an even schedule down the stretch. Yeah. Yeah. So, look, also beef stew is out. Isaiah Stewart is out for at least the next week, Vince, with the calf injury, which may be longer.

I don't know. So, look, into every season, some rain must fall. That is another one of my sayings, and I'm sure you're getting tired of them by now. It actually sounds like a beautiful poem to me. Thank you. Thank you, Anthony. So, all right. So that's where we're at with Detroit.

Good opportunity for Dennis Jenkins. Like, you know, Dennis Jenkins might end up playing key minutes in the playoffs, Vince. Like he's going to get an opportunity to play a bunch of important minutes against some good teams here. I'm not saying it's a positive development, but, you know, nothing is wasted in the NBA. No, Dennis Jenkins, Marcus Sasser. Like you, once again, like those guys can be productive, right? But I don't think there's no way you can replicate what Kay does. And here's the other thing, too.

They weren't playing well before Kay Cunningham got hurt. Like that's the untold thing about this. Kate was picking up Tray Johnson full court to try to get his team going. That was supposed to be Assar Thompson picking up Tray Johnson full court. And Kaye said, hey, we need a spark. We're playing the Wizards two nights in a row. And then the worst possible thing happened. And now it takes them in all likelihood, unless something miraculous happens out of MVP consideration,

all NBA, everything else, the 65 game stuff. That's just a byproduct of it. But it puts a damper on a very positive. season. And I'll say this, if you have the number one seed from soup to nuts and then you lose it on the back end, whether it's injury or something else, that doesn't make anybody feel good. Should this cast a different light on the Jaden Ivy Herder Trade? And I mean, could that, you know, it depends, I'm sure, on what you think of Ivy. And right now, he's not even playing in Chicago. Right. So, I don't know. Maybe he wouldn't have helped that much. Jenkins had kind of

leaped him, it seemed, at least like something to play, making stuff. But it seems like Herder's not doing a ton for them in Ivy. This could be a stretch where maybe Ivy could have stretched his legs. It's funky. The whole Jay and Ivy thing, like, has been debated at nauseam. I think the fact of the matter is the fact that you've traded in him for Kevin Herder, who's having a career worst year from three, as opposed to a career best year from three, let you know what Ivy's value was around the league by that point. Like, I know they started engaging with Sacramento, on a deal, and that was around the time that Sacramento was about to trade in a shooter and who's other kid?

Why am I drawing a blank? Keanu Ellis. Keanu Ellis, to Cleveland, but they were so far down the road that there was no point and really engaging. So Detroit wound up turning to Chicago. And I've asked the question, why not a Kobe White? Why not a I. You know, those guys being, those guys being moved, like, those were, a better players,

but it's clear that the value of what Jay Nive was around the league wasn't as high, and I don't know if he was going to turn things around here this season. That's why Jay Nivey should sue Cole Anthony for lost wages, pain and suffering. Well, I'll just say that he, if he's back by the playoffs and he's okay by the playoffs, then this will just be a forgotten thing other than that area on his back, because I'm sure it is sore as hell. And I'm sure he is not feeling great about things right now. But it could be worse.

And so we'll see what happens. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. All right. Speaking of injuries in the Central Division, we have another Janus situation, guys. So, Sean's reported on it yesterday. There was a lot of news in the last two days, plus it's, you know, the NCAA tournament week.

and so it's easy to kind of lose track of this. But Jan has hurt his knee. It's his fifth injury of the season. He's missed the last few games. I think he heard it in the game and he missed a game with Cleveland earlier this week. Anyway, the Bucks kind of want him to shut it down. He does not want to shut it down. And it goes to a couple of different things.

One, let's say he doesn't play again this year. just for the sake of argument. He's hyper-extended knee. It's not like a chronic thing. You know, he just stepped wrong. But he doesn't play again this year. It's 36 games on the season. He has played less than 70 games in...

And, you know, look, 70's still a lot. Let's just say the 65 number. This is the 1, 2, 3, 4th time in the last 7 years. He's going to fail to play 65 games. And obviously, least games has ever played. He's 31 years old. Still should have years. left in his prime.

Mm-hmm. I know where you're going with this. That was a nasty fall, by the way. When he hurt his knee? Yeah. Yeah. I know. Doc, like, diagnosed it.

You know, last time around, Janus gave him his own self-diagnosis, he's like, yeah, I haven't had an MRI, but it's a calf strain. It's probably 46 weeks. And then Doc came like two days later. He goes, Janus diagnosed it correctly. So he said, Jan said after the game, they said, yeah, I'm not getting an MRI. And Doc's like, look like a hyperxtrain. to me, and sure enough, that's what it was. So the bucks are having a struggled season, but

their diagnosis of injuries is right on point. Five years 270, Vince, is his contract extension. The pathway for the bucks to keep Janus, regardless of what anybody wants to say, is that you offer him that extension, you get him to sign that extension. Do you feel good about extending Janus five years 270 million? That's a great question. Because you know the name that pops up for me when thinking about and the runway that he's already had with the Milwaukee Bucks minus, of course, the championship. Kevin Garnett spent a lot of years holding up that Minnesota Timberwolves franchise. And then it wound up sort of, it never capsized, right? But they wound up having like 41 and 41 missing the playoffs.

Like after he won MVP in 04, I want to say they never got back to the playoffs the next three years. So then when they might have the playoffs. They never got out of the first round. I know that. They didn't, they, they, they only got the first round the one time, which was the MVP year. And so when KG got to Boston, there was only so much tread left on his tires. Like, they won in 2009. It was, oh, eight, excuse me, and it was a great year.

And then in 2009, the decline starts because he tears his knee in Utah, I want to say. He misses the rest of that year. He's back the next year, but he looks like not a shell of himself, but a diminished version of him. They wound up getting the trip to the finals out of it. But Kevin Garnett, in my opinion, left Minnesota two years too late because of everything that's happened. The question is going to be. Age 31, by the way, he went to Boston at age 31. Are we going to be asking ourselves with Janus doing this?

Should I should not dance with the Bucks for the past few years? Are we going to be looking at this a few years from now and saying, man, Janus waited too long because he only has so many good to great years left. Go ahead. You are correct. You are correct. He never went back to the play. playoffs with the Timberwolves. Could we also? I'm good on trivia.

I'm good on trivia, Wendy. Oh, yeah. I saw you the other day on Get Up. You pulled something out your you know where on trivia. And you know what he did, Slater? So Hembo is, you know, he's a, he works on the Get Up show and he comes up with the trivia questions. And like, look, I'm just to be honest with you.

I kiss his ass. Because when I want trivia, I want him to give me a question. I got a chance to get. I don't want to be embarrassed on national television. I'm not good at trivia. you. Well, Vince pulled out some answer. He pulled out Kenny. I don't remember what the question was, but he pulled Kenny Anderson. It was, I'll get you the question. The question was, who was the one freshman to score 25 points in three NCAA tournament games? And I was thinking like, Carmelo, but I'm like, that's too easy. And then we had just finished talking about Darius A Cup. I'm like, oh, maybe it's a guard or maybe he's from Detroit. It's Chris Weber. I'm like, no, Chris Weber didn't do that.

So when I said guard, lethal weapon three, Kenny Anderson. And I was guessing my ass off. And it happened to be correct. That's kind of in your wheelhouse, though, of like era, sport. I mean, I do not remember Kenny Anderson in the NCAA. Freaky. I remember. Freaky.

That's why I said Vinny's wheelhouse. Okay. Well, fair. Fair. So then he danced on him. He danced on Hembo. And you think that's a risk? That's a question.

I think he got lost in the moment and he's going to pay the price later on, is what I think. I got two questions on him, Bo. I answered the NFL question, right, for Graziano. That's when I danced on him. I came out from the back. I was done for the day, and they said, get Vinny out because they knew what the answer was. You're going to get, like, 1970. I know, I know.

It's going to be terrible. It's going to be terrible from now on. I'm never going to get an answer right. Batting average in 1979 or something. No, he's going to get NBA because that's what he'll do, but he'll get like, you know, some answer where it was like the Syracuse Nationals in 1951. That's what he's going to get.

It's going to be no fun. It's going to be no fun. But you always have that moment where you danced on him. I'll give you that. Vinny said something to wrap us back to the topic. You know, he said, are we a couple years from now going to be asking if Janus waited too long, which I'm sure will be the topic most discussed, you know, you mentioned him like the Garnett example.

But also like is Milwaukee waiting too long? And I think that's part of what Brian was, you know, if they're the one like should they offer the 5-270? Shouldn't they have already just jumped at the opportunity? Should they jump this summer prior to even getting an answer from Janus on that? Because among the many reasons with Janus on their team, they're irrelevant, right? You know, they shut it or, you know, they're having this issue over should they shut them down? Should they not?

It's not like he's leading them to winning when he's on the court right now. They're two and nine in their last 11. It's like, are they going to have a competitive product? Since we walked down the path of the Rashid Wallace trade, do you want to know what the Kevin Garnett trade was in 2007? Talk about that for trivia, Vinnie. Was that Al Jefferson? Yep.

So there was six players. Let's see, one, two, three, five players and two, two picks. I'll just tell you two first-round picks. I'll tell you who the picks became in a minute. but Al Jefferson was sort of the centerpiece. Was it Gerald Green? Gerald Green. Good job.

I'm not going to mess with this guy, Slater. I mean, this guy's, he's, the trade was as follows. To Boston, Kevin Garnett, two Minnesota. Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes. Ryan Gomes. Former Celtic. Covered him in Oklahoma City. Former few teams, for sure.

Sebastian Telfare. Havis. Heard him in Oklahoma City. former. Look at you. Wow. Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, and two first round picks that became Wayne Ellington and Steph Curry. No, just kidding, Johnny Flynn.

Could have become Steph Curry. That would have been a different trade. Wow. What a time. They also traded for Ray Allen that summer for the pick that became Vinny. Jeff Green. Jeff Green. He's correct.

That's right. Uncle Jeff. That happened on draft night, if I remember correctly. Yeah. I mean, that was one of Sam Presti, I think 30, 31 at the time, his first big moves, including at the same time. He also signed and traded to Richard Lewis to Orlando. And then that created a domino effect that has created the Shay.

You guys know that whole domino effect, right? The domino effect. Kurt Thomas and Kurt Thomas in the pick becomes the pick that's Abaca. A baka becomes Subonis and Oladipo. Subonis and Oladipo become Paul George. Paul George becomes Shea. Shee. Alexander.

Wow. But you could do that with, you know, like I see people. That's the most legendary. That is a pretty legendary one, though. That's true. But you can, this is like six degrees of Kevin Bacon. You're right. That one you can really direct through.

Now, he didn't swindle Steve Kerr. He took advantage of Steve Kerr being ordered to cut money. Of Robert Sarver. I should have said. There you go. There you go. With all due respect to Steve as the GM. I mean, they sold the rights to Rajan Rondo.

Nobody is more critical. critical of Steve Kerr as a GM than Steve Kerr. By the way, for whatever you want to say about Steve Kerr, he won an Oscar last week. Correct. You know, if you want to criticize certain coaching decisions or certain, you know, players that he doesn't treat it well or made mistakes on. Of course. The guy had how many rings as a player, five rings as a player, right? Played for Phil Jackson, played for Greg Popovich, has four rings as a head coach, two gold medals, right?

Or maybe one is an assistant. One is an assistant. Yeah, two gold medals. Okay. Yeah. Dude, don't coaches like, you know better than me. Do coaches like not get actual gold medals on? They do not.

I mean, I don't know if, you know, I don't know if they like, they get gold medals and like say, I don't know. I don't know that. But, you know, he was standing there when they got the gold medals. I mean, that counts for something. And last week, he won an Oscar. You know what else last week? I mean, the Oscar. but also this speaks to what you're talking about.

He won a 600th game as a coach this week. Same night as the Oscar, I believe. And he became only the second person ever to win 600 games as a player and as a coach. Don Nelson, I believe. That's the stat I saw. Don Nelson was the other. That would have been a good trivia question.

Wow. Man, that was my one. Vinny wouldn't have got that. As far as a life, his father was assassinated when he was a teenager. I believe he was a teenager. and, you know, what was it, six, seven years ago?

What, eight years ago? He had back surgery that basically failed and caused him to be debilitated for years. He's still not 100%. So this is a guy who's had the highest of the highs and some of the lowest of the lows. Like, talk about a life. And tomorrow he coaches against the pistons, Vince. That's right. Anyway.

That's almost like you and your lawyer thing last week, Wendy. and Benny are you going to need a lawyer? You don't remember. I don't think Slater was around for that. Oh, yeah. All I'm going to tell you is this. And I hate teasing people like this, but I'm sorry, I can't help it. And Jackson can back me up.

When we turned the cameras off with Alex Spiro and he started talking lawyer stuff, that's when it got interesting. But look, I can only do what I can do. All right. Well, basically the point is here, you know, you have the question about what to do with Janus. Do you trade them or do you extend them? Okay. Janus obviously has to say I want the extension. If Janus says I want the extension, are you giving it to them? I don't see how they don't. I don't see how they don't.

So, but I would say this. Can I ask you a question? Do you, when you say, I don't see how they don't is that you just saying, I know how the bucks operate. I know how they think. I know their organizational priority. So I believe that they will because then I would probably agree. Do you think that they should, though? How can they not, Vince? I don't know how they I can't. I mean, look, what's on the table for them?

What type of trade? Well, that's the thing. What if they, if they research this trade, if they research these trades, they saw what Rashid Wallace went for, saw what Kevin Garnett went for, like,

you know, those trades didn't help those teams. It didn't make Atlanta anybody. Can I ask you all something, though? Where are they going with Janus right now? What is happening on the court? Look, in February,

when he had his third calf injury of the year, They probably at that point should have said you're not, you're done playing. And instead of going 500 or actually they won a bunch of games and now they're trapped in 10th place, maybe they would be up there. We talked about it then. And so they brought Janus back and he got hurt again. And now they're, you know, in a stare down with him. Well, the question I have is less about what are they going to do in them because we know the bucks would be largely irrelevant without Janus. Like you don't trade your franchise cornerstone and get better.

Like the only time that's ever happened was Boston trading, Garnett and Pierce, you know, to Mikhail Prokerov for the picks that became Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, blah, blah, blah, blah. Those types of trades rarely happen. For me, if you are signing Janus to that deal or if Janus accepts the deal, then in my book, it takes the pressure off of me to try to retool as fast as I can. If nothing else, if the past year has told us anything, is that sitting in the 10th spot or 11 spot in the draft lottery

means you can get the number one pick, means you can elbow your way into the top four. So there's no guarantee that just because they are where they are does not mean that some lottery hijinks will happen in Chicago in a couple of, in what, two months? Those that May 19th, May 20th, somewhere around there? I think we have to find out where the bucks will be picking before we ask ourselves, okay, do they have to trade him?

Do they have to extend him? Because that's fair. That's an unknown element to this entire equation right now. But I guess the, you know, if you do get him to sign the extension, okay, well, then you have so much time to either rebuild around him or you can trade them later. You hold so much more leverage theoretically. But also, and I think this is what Brian's getting to. What you had at the deadline and what you should still have this summer is a market to trade. trade him for a huge package, right? They were able to kind of spit at the warrior's idea of the

four-first. I'm not sure if you signed him to five for 270. Is that what you said it was? And then a year from now, if the injuries accumulate or whatever, like, I'm not, it might turn into it into an Anthony Davis. I'm not saying it's going to be that, you know, low of value, but don't you run the risk of that? If you sign him to this monster extension that you're talking about and this injury is an age pile up. To be clear, whoever trades for him is going to have this issue and who's ever going to trade for him if they trade a lot of stuff. Like if the Warriors had gotten him for the four firsts,

they're probably signing him to that extension, don't you think? For sure. I'm just saying, and I think the more time that goes on, the more injuries that accumulate, like the risk you run is not striking while the iron's hot. I believe the iron was pretty dang hot at the deadline. Remember, we spent a few podcasts early in the season discussing, like, man, how good of a trade could you theoretically get for you honest?

But the reality is by deadline time, it could have got really in this age of, of stars being very hard to trade, they could have got a monster package. I think understandably said, hey, let's wait until the summer. But at some point, the return may diminish. And I think part of that could be

once the extension kicks in. Well, the part of it is once the extension kicks in, he's harder to trade because the number is so massive. And in this era, where you've got to go dollar for dollar, especially if you're anywhere near a first apron, second apron situation, or whatever it is,

the picks won't just get it done. You got to go big for big. And I don't know how many salaries out there in the NBA that if it's five for 270, what's that an average of $55 million a year. But the number might start off somewhere around like what, 51 or 52 or something. You know what I mean? Like finding a number to match that if you decide in year two that you want to get

off of Yannis and everything else and ship that four years and 210 million left, you got to find a match for that as opposed. to just value. You've got to find, there's not many teams that will have that type of capital left, that type of salary on the books that can absorb a Janus

and still have something left that'll make it palatable. Well, and look, we've got to see how this season ends between the two of them, the two sides. If Janus is basically saying, I want to play, you know.

What if Yonis does this on the way out of the practice facility? He gives them the boo. The thumbs down. The thumbs down. Listen, the team controls the inactive report. You can say whatever you want. The team controls the inactive report. They turn it in.

But it's not just put it this way. This whole season from cutting Dame and then signing Miles Turner through five injuries, through the half-hearted, you know, I don't even know what you want to call the way they've handled the second half of the season. They're trying to win, you know, but not that well. They've had some moments, but I don't even. know what you say. Isn't that the biggest problem in this whole conversation, though? It's like if they're protecting the honest error, like, where is it going? That's my whole thing.

Wow, but that was the case months ago and that was the weeks ago. I agree. I agree. That's all right. Okay. Yeah. And what is Janice's game go from here? It's also the question. Not just help. How will his game that depends so much on athleticism, activity, and that extra effort If he starts to lose a little bit of it, where is it? More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right, Slater, you were in Boston on Wednesday night, Warriors at Celtics. He went to see Jalen Brown's post-game interview. I am going to read you Jalen Brown's quotes.

I know that you heard them, but I've got them right in front of me so that I will read them. I will give a quick context prior to that Joe Mazzula gave a quote pregame about his, you know, Jaylen Brown's improved leadership and approved ability. I think, you know, especially with Tatum coming back in the fold, his approved ability this year to, like, reach several teammates. So that was a topic. Postgame, he scores 32. They win. And, you know, the Boston media brought the idea of, hey, your leadership skills have improved, according to Joe. What's your perspective on that? Vince, have you heard these quotes yet? Because I do not think that they have gotten an appropriate amount of attention in the news cycle, considering that it's the NCAA

tournament, WNBA, getting a labor deal. Have you heard these quotes yet? I have seen a portion of the quote so I know where you're going. Okay. All right. I think I need to read them in relative, you know, the full thing just to get the, to get the entire experience. I learned, they were asking him about his leadership in proving. I learned a lot about each and every one of our guys, like down to astrology. I learned the communication styles that work best for each individual and started utilizing that when I speak to each and every guy. Like Nimi, Nimi Ascada. He's Year of the Rabbit.

So his communication is different from Dee White, who is Year of the Dog. So his communication style is different. Hugo, Gonzalez, is also a dog. Peyton is a tiger. J.T. is a tiger. Ron is a dragon. Joe's a dragon. Missoula, you're not kidding.

Nicola, he's new to our team. He's Year of the Horse. It's Year of the Horse right now. Each of those guys have different communication styles, and you can go into numerology as well. Like, Sam is a five. I'm also a five. So, you know, different breakdowns. And then you can also go into like star signs, JT's of Pisces, etc.

I learned all that different type of stuff. And I was able to communicate with guys in different ways. So I've now seen these quotes delivered twice in about 24 hours, really less than that, about 18 hours. Who did it better, Jailen or me? I think you, the deadpan. I mean, you both kind of have your own deadpan style. Thank you. I don't know any of your signs.

I'm sorry. It seems like, you know, I read a book and then now I'm a satirious, Wendy. This is Brian Windhorst, like Jalen Brown wrote a biography, and Ryan Windhorst is the audio version of it. It's quite something. So, yes, it was numerology, astrology, and the year of the horse and all that. And then at one point he was talking about somebody asked him specifically about numerology. and he started getting into the well as numbers base. And then he said, you know, it's kind of like analytics.

I don't know if you have the full transcript. But then he took a dig at analytics, the analytics community in there. But then while admitting that he's kind of using numbers himself, now very different analytics and numerology. But it was it was a presser for sure. I just looked it up. I'm also a year of the horse. Vince, what year were you born?

1984. I won't tell any women. Okay. Black don't crack, Wendy. You ain't got to worry about that. All right. Uh-oh. Year of the Rat.

Oh, man. We'll do your new, we'll do your numerology later. Slater. 1990. The young and. Good grief. Oh, Year of the Horse. You know, I knew Slater and I vibed.

Oh, okay. You know, Slater and I vibed Year of the Horse. Yeah, so I don't know what that means, Vince, but I look at you in a different light. I, I ain't worried about it. I am a Sagittarius and I have family members. members who are all into the numerology. So I know a little bit about that, too. That's a little bit.

Nothing I would share on air. My wife's definitely into that. Like, there's matches between Air, like, our son is Aries. She's a, yeah, Leo. And apparently they match fire. I don't know. People are really into it. It's true.

They're fire signs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're both fire signs. Here's what, he was asked about numerology, and here's what Jalen explained. Numerology is the combination of your numbers, like your birthday. each letter of your name adds up to a certain number.

And numerology is a lot more telling than anything else because numbers don't lie. And he takes a small dig at the analytics community here. Because numbers don't lie. We got a bunch of analytics guys here, which frustrates me at times. But numerology is definitely very telling. That was my favorite part of it. It was like he was realizing he was seeing very numbers based and realized that wasn't his, like, his brand is like, no, I'm not. He contradicted himself in the, in what?

in the middle of a sentence. Numbers don't lie, except for you analytics guys, then they lie. Him and Kyrie are so much, him and Kyrie are so much more alike.

And I say that not as a dig at either one of them, but there's so much more beneath the surface and they're deep, like legitimate deep thinkers and they think of all of these things and they're just curious minds. And if you get them on the right day and if you poke them on the right subject,

you'll get something like that. And I'm not, I'm not surprised about Jalen Brown. Robert, what? I was going to say, Robert Parrish was at the game,

got a huge ovation, like standing O blank. Looks pretty good, by the way. Look really good. And Gary Washburn asked Jaylen, asked both Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum post game,

like, hey, you know, do you have envisions, you know, yourself 20 years from now, basically, you know, getting the standing ovation, waving to the, crowd, whatever. Jason Tatum gave the, you know, the very appreciative, uh, diplomatic response of like, yes, he's been at all these Paul Pierce jersey retirement. Jalen Brown basically was like, I'm not sure you'll ever see me once I'm retired. He was like, I don't know that's honest. Yeah. Depends on what phase of the moon is in. Jackson is year of the ox.

Hmm. So he's like hard headed and like. I don't know. I don't know what any of that means. I'm just telling you. You're the rat. I got to look. That it was like, like, Master's Flintner type of rat? The most important characteristic of the ox is their honesty. Okay. Is Jackson being honest about the state of Syracuse basketball? I'm not sure. For the Year of the Horse, me and Slater, they are often described as energetic, outgoing, and friendly with the love of freedom and adventure. Can we?

I don't think that's me. Can I ask you Year of the Rats description? I'm curious if Vinny's about to get. first zodiac sign in the in the Chinese zodiac cycle they are characterized as clever I'll give you that charming ambitious and highly adaptable great at trivia that's not listen that's not in here I've been called charismatic in my day before quick-witted resourceful and diligent problem solvers who are also skilled at gathering wealth I'll take that I'll maintaining social

connections. It's better than I thought it was going to be. Rats possess sharp minds, allowing them to solve problems quickly and think on their feet. I'm just reading this about what this is. This podcast has gone off the rail. It's off the rail. Oh, man. Jaylon Brown looked really good.

And, of course, he has all your, I should say, Jason Tatum looked really good. Yes, he does. His three-point shot was, you know, he really, he was shooting under 20% from three coming into that game. He only played five games. I'm not, you know, freaking out. But that was the first game where his three-point shot looked good, and he was rebound the ball well again. Like, look, I mean, I don't know who's going to be healthy.

I don't know how everyone's going to be in a month, but if you're making a fair evaluation of the Eastern Conference and the Cavs' defense is getting worse by the game, the Knicks are unimpressively winning. Kale Bridges in a slump. The Pistons' best player is now injured. and Jason Tatum is looking better by the game. And he's a Pisces, and so he'll dominate when the moon is whatever phase.

Are you saying make reservations in Boston for the second week of June? And I'm going to tell you something. If you haven't made him, you're going to, I mean, it's not going to be your money, but there's some America 250th celebration up there too. It's a World Cup. I wish you luck. And it's just naturally. same price usually in Boston.

Yes. In the spring. In the spring. Yeah. So I made a months ago. Yankee series or something on. Yeah. All right.

Well, I think we've done enough damage for today. I really, I think I'm going to wrap this one a little early because it's been a little meandering at its NCAA tournament. So Jackson wants to go watch the games anyway. So I apologize for not delivering my normal, incredible analysis that goes on for hours. Please. you Slater. Thank you. Thank you, Vince. Thank you, Jackson, the rest of our producers. Thank you for putting up with me. 45 minutes. We'll talk to you next week.