Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Can Knicks Take Control Of East? + Can OKC Break NBA Wins Record?

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to the NBA Cup quarterfinals in the Eastern Conference including big wins for the Knicks and Magic. Plus, do the Knicks have a real chance to run away with the East? Then, the guys preview the NBA Cup quarterfinals in the Western Conference by talking if the Suns have any chance against OKC and if the Spurs can surprise the Lakers. Finally, can the Thunder win 70 games or more this year? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing on Tuesday evening, joining us from New York City,

where they're celebrating in the streets tonight because the Knicks were victorious and the NBA Cup quarterfinals. And Bontemps, you and the Knicks are headed out to Vegas. Tim Bontemps. That's true. I am headed to Las Vegas in a couple days for the Cup semi-finals. Tonight I was at Madison Square Garden

where the Knicks were not playing, though, to watch McMahon a window discovery. in person, AJ DeBanza, who had a very rough first half like the BYU Cougars did. They were down 43 to 22 at halftime. And then AJ DeBanza had 22 points in the second half. And BYU came back and won the game at the buzzer and he looked every bit. He topped two or three pick in the draft he's going to be. I was with Christian of Christian and Scooby.

That's right. He was in Omaha tonight because he's performing at the University of Nebraska tomorrow. And he was a big Raptor fan. Rough night for Christian in the Raptors. He was keeping an eye on the situation. You know, he was twisting in the wind into that game. Anyway, joining us from Oklahoma City. Well, here will be in attendance for Wednesday night's Thunder Suns game.

He's Van McMahon. Howdy, partners. You can't spell craps without raps, but they won't be there to roll the dice in Vegas. How do you like that? That was awful. Yeah. That was as awful as the performance on the Raptors as they've now, I believe, lost six of seven. Well, that's the thing. So this NBA Cup, the teams, some of the teams that were in it in these semifinals are not playing as well as when when they clinched their semi, their quarterfinal spot. Like, you know, the heat lost tonight to the magic. The heat have now lost four in a row. And so they are out. And the raptors were the number one seed in the east after dominating their group by, I think they.

had the number one differential. They might have the number one differential. They wound up being the second seed in these because the magic beat the half the sixers by a thousand points in their second to last game. But they did they did cruise through the group stage. And they have since RJ Barrett got hurt, they have really struggled. I was going to say, they have not been the same since former Nick and potential future Maverick, R.J. Barrett went down. That's true. No, they have not been.

The Knicks, however, have won, I believe, 8 of 9 now. Jalen Brunson had, who's having a very strong season. Jalen Brunson had a terrific performance in this one. He had 20 points in the first quarter, I think. And 26 in the first half. 26, the first half, 35 for the game on 13 of 19, shooting six of nine from three. That's tough to overcome. The Knicks are...

I think top three in offense now. Certainly during this stretch, this nine-game stretch, I think they're definitely top three. And while they were a very good offense under Tom Thibodeau, their scoring is up. And, you know, their pace, which is something that Mike Brown wanted to install, their pace is about the same as it was last year. But their scoring is up. Josh Hart is, after dealing with some injuries early in the season, he is rounding into form.

His shot looked great tonight. He had four threes. OGA and O'GNobie coming off. A big game for the roommate show. Yeah, O'GNobie also coming off the injury, had a good performance in his old stomping grounds in Toronto. And Mikael Bridges, he's having a very good year, guys, and a plus 19 in this one.

So I have to say, Bontemps, you go to a lot of Knicks games. We haven't talked about the Knicks a lot. They haven't been very good on the road. This was their, they win this one to improve to just, four and six. But eight out of nine, that's something to pay attention to. And they go to Vegas with some good momentum now. Yeah. I'm going to give Nate Duncan credit for saying something that I hadn't really thought of until he said it on his pod today, which is that you look up and down the east. And, you know, there was a couple weeks ago we talked about how well Atlanta was playing.

Then they came home and lost a bunch of games. The Celtics were losing early in the year. Now they've ripped off a bunch of wins and a row. We talked to the other day about how they're playing great right now. A week and a half ago, we were talking about how great the Raptors were playing. Now, they've lost six out of seven. They've gone the other way. And I was just looking at the standings. And from Boston and third to the Hawks currently in ninth, the standings are separated by a game and a half. And I think through a lot of the season, and I think you could maybe see Detroit falling into that mix, too. They've been kind of 500 since they're a great streak. But the Knicks at least are built with their team, the way they are, with Jaylen Brunson being out there.

even though Carl Towns didn't play in this game. If they can keep that starting five healthy and get on a roll, I didn't play in which game? Carl Towns did play. He didn't play great, but he had 16 rebounds. Well, right. I meant, sorry, I mean he's been dealing with. Yeah, he missed the last game.

He missed the last game. Yeah, he's been dealing with injuries and he's been in and out of the lineup lately, is what I meant. I misspoke. But the Knicks have a chance to run away and hide at the top of the conference, I think, if they can string some wins together. Because they have, at least when their guys are, available. They've got a pretty consistent theory of who they're going to be. And led by Jalen Brunson

and led by this offense, which, like you said, with these guys going, with Carl Towns, especially playing all the time at center or just about all the time at center now, like their offense is going to be really good. And they're going to hit a lot of shots. And they're going to score a lot of points. And they, like you said, they are 13 and one at home. They've totally cleaned up at home. They should be better on the road than they've been. And I think because of how on topsy-turvy, the rest of the conference is. Like, it's a good time for the Knicks to get hot. And if they can't run away and hide at the top,

especially given they don't have a ton of depth, that could make a real difference for them down the second half of the year if they can be able to prepare for the playoffs and get some cushion on everybody. Well, and you've got to figure Towns is going to get going at some point. And, you know, he kind of had, like, the weird comments about his fit in this offense that, you know, theoretically should really benefit him. But he hadn't looked real comfortable.

I mean, he's shooting a career low from the floor, and the lowest three-point percentage that he's had since his rookie year. But it's not like, you know, he spitz. Self-proclaimed, greatest shooting big man of all time. Like, it's not like he forgot how to shoot the ball. So, you know, at some point he's going to put together like a three- or four-week period where he's shooting like 55 from the floor, 45 from three-point range, and the numbers will, you know, get back closer to his career norms.

He's still also averaging 22 and a half. and 12. It's not like he's he's not 15 a game either. No, but you know, you are used to him shooting it 40-ish for sure three-point range and shooting 55% or so from the

floor and he's down in the mid-40s from the floor and mid-30s from three-point range. I just, you know, at some point, like he's going to get in a groove and the fact that they're reeling off all these wins without him shooting the ball the way that he has for

a decade now, basically, is, I think, an encouraging sign for the Knicks. I mentioned Bridges. You know, a lot of people talk about the trade. I get it. Not everybody loved that extension that he signed over this summer, even though I think the Knicks were pretty happy to get him at that number. He's having an excellent season. He's shooting his highest, I think, in four or five years, shooting over 40% from

three, 41% from three going into tonight. Average in more than a block a game and two steals a game. Mm-hmm. His plus minus is just routinely been really good. And of course, with some guys in and out of the lineup, he's been there every game. So, by the way, Jackson tells us that tonight, the Knicks are over 50% in five consecutive road games for the first time since 1984. Whoa. Yeah.

Are you been alive in 84? Part of the year. And the other thing Nicks have going for him, too, is, I mean, I did just mention Tows has been banged. for a bunch of the air with his squad thing and he's been in another one, been on the injury report a lot. But Jaylon Brunson rarely misses games, Carl Towns, rarely misses games, Mikhail Bridges never misses games. OJN and Obie is back healthy.

Like, when you look up and down the east, there's either main stars out, like Tatum obviously in Boston, or these other teams are a mass unit. And that's again, like the Knicks have a chance right now. If they could have a good month or six weeks now, I think they could get some real separation at the top, and that could wind up making a really big difference for him, especially when a couple weeks ago when they were scuffling,

it didn't look like they were going to have a chance to, you know, they might be right in the mix with all these other teams, and I think they've got a chance to really go on a run here. We'll see if Vegas can be a springboard for him. I'm not sure I'd put Kat in the group of extraordinarily durable players. He has missed a lot of games. Yeah. 17-Double double second in the league behind Yokic.

Man rebounds, that's for sure. How many triple doubles does he have, Jackson? He might have about 17 triple doubles, Yokic. Definitely. Certainly wouldn't shot me if he did. McMahon looked it up. Eleven triple doubles for Yokic so far this year. 11, if you had that in the sweepstakes.

More hoop collective podcast after this. Okay, Magic win by, I believe it was nine over the Miami Heat earlier on Tuesday night in the first game out of the gate. He'd have now lost four games in a row and have been ice cold shooting during that stretch. I think they're shooting under 30% from three and those four losses. But the magic, McMahon, your old guy with the Grizzlies, Desmond Bain, who we talked a little bit ago about the price that the Knicks paid for Mikhail Bridges and aren't apologizing for it. I'll tell you what, even though his overall numbers are down, the magic are feeling better about the price they paid in the offseason for Desmond Bain, who had his third 37-point game. just the last two weeks.

Had a big start to the fourth quarter in this one, which got Orlando some separation that they needed. Obviously, without Franz Wagner, he has a high ankle sprain. He's going to miss, you know, multiple weeks here. But Palo Bancair was back. He's not playing his normal self, but he put up a decent game tonight. And they had some threes.

And when the magic, you know, they're not the greatest three-point shooting team. But when Des Bain goes six and nine, you're, you know, the math moves to their side. especially on a night, like I said, where Miami struggled from three. Well, and they needed a big Bain performance because, like I said, Franz Wagner's out. And the good news is it's a high ankle sprain and not something significantly worse. You know, it's an injury that is, you know, a week's long recovery and not a season-ending type of thing.

Like, it was feared it might be just the way that he went down. But then Bencaro is playing his way back into a rhythm. He's still on a minute's restriction. You know, Bencaro's also, honestly, he's at the point of his career where he's got to prove that his numbers impact winning. But with Bencaro not fully back yet, with Franz out, they needed Bain to have a big time performance. And he certainly came through for him. And, you know, again, I don't think anybody in Orlando was panicked that he got off to a slow shooting start because you're much better believing years worth of a sample than, you know, a few weeks. Desmond Bain's going to be able to shoot the ball. He's going to be

one of the best volume three-point shooters in the league. And, you know, certainly tonight was a case of the numbers evening out for him a little bit. That's certainly true. I thought the thing that was interesting from this game was on the Miami side. You know, the heat opened this game up with a 15-0 run. They're up 18 to 2. Look like they had a chance to really jump on Orlando. No Franz Wagner. Apollo Ben-Bank-Haro getting back into the swing of things as you guys both. said. And this game ends up flipping by almost 30 points by the end of it. And I'm looking up

the exact quote that I saw before. But Norman Powell, after the game, was talking about the fact that people have started to figure out their offense. You say, quote, we're all in everybody scouting report and how we play, the pace trying to slow us down. We have to do our jobs better to make it easier for everybody else. I would say this is a little bit of a repeat of what happened last year in Memphis after they got off to a very hot start on offense, running some different stuff than what people were used to. And then as the year went on, people started to scout it and game playing for it and figure it out a little bit. And it went back the other way some. So obviously they're getting Tyler Hero back in the mix. He's been out of the lineup with injuries,

nor has been out of the lineup with injuries. They probably weren't going to be overall as hot as they were early on. But for as much as we've talked about their offense, they are in the middle of the pack and offense now. Their offense did fall apart after the first three minutes of this game. And moving forward, it is going to be interesting to see if this is a flash in the pan and they correct some things and they get back to humming along

or has this really been a real legitimate bump in the road and people have started to figure some things out and we'll see. But I'm curious about that. And frankly, the Knicks, the past couple of years, I know they beat Orlando the other day, but they have typically been very bad against Orlando the past couple of years. So I am curious to see how the magic, even without Franz, match up with them in this first cup semifinal on Saturday afternoon.

One of the things has happened with the heat since Hero came back in, although he missed the previous two games before this, but he came back from the foot surgery. Then he was actually, his shooting percentages weren't, were pretty good. And then he was 0 of 6 on threes tonight. But they took to, they rejigled their starting lineup, and they took Kalil Weir out of it. And, you know, Kalil-Ware is still young second-year player, and he doesn't put up big numbers every night. But that seemed to have contributed. And again, he's been in and out because Hero's been in and out.

But he and Jaime Hakez were had bigger roles before Hero came back, and they were playing great. And since that has happened, in addition to Bontemps' point, maybe about the league, you know, catching up on some of the scouting, they've lost their mojo a little bit. You know, they only played where 12 minutes tonight and he was minus 15 in those 12 minutes. In fact, their whole bench was blasted tonight after they got off to that great start. Honestly, the number that sticks out to me there is the 12 minutes because he is a extraordinarily talented guy as a seven-footer who's really springy and can shoot the ball. 12 minutes. That's a tough number for me. and Hock has got off to such a great start.

You know, he was playing a sixth man of the year level through the first month or so. That drop off is not great. But, you know, the thing with like with the Grizzies last year, remember, one of the reasons that they just decided to go ahead and pull the plug on Taylor Jenkins, and it wasn't his offense. It was Noel La Roches. But one of the reasons they decided to pull the plug when they did is because they'd lost, like, Like, I forgot what it was, nine or ten straight games to teams that were 500 or better. And so there was questions that, okay, hey, you know, this offense can beat bad teams, but, you know, can hold up against the better competition. And then the other thing, just talking to scouts about it last year, even when the Grizzies were rolling, you know, I heard a lot of, hey, it's one thing when you're catching a team, you know, it's got a day to prepare for it.

It'll be another thing come playoff time when, you know, teams can really kind of lock in on the Scadden report and the scheme and all those kind of things. So, you know, whether any of that proves to be true or not, those are the be, I guess, external nitpicking about the offensive scheme. On the magic side, you know, I've talked about this before, but, you know, we've seen it. Now, this is a third year of the NBA Cup. we see some teams sort of take leaps by getting the opportunity to go play, you know, for something with stakes, which is, you know, at the point of the top at this time of the year. And, you know, obviously Orlando has a good shot here. You know, this is a team that hasn't advanced in the playoffs very deep. And this is, you know, great.

And then advanced in the playoffs as Dwight Howard was on the team. Right, right. But so this is, you know, significant thing for them to build off of. We certainly saw this, you know, they aren't a surprise to get here. I think if we'd have said at the beginning of the season that the magic would be one of the final four in the NBA Cup. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense with their upgrades. But considering the injuries they've had, they've, you know, and sort of the sluggish start, you know, they are gaining momentum. And, you know, this is a great opportunity for them to play with something with some stakes.

it and get the experience. And even last year, you know, the Bucks won it. The Thunder, even though they lost it, you know, had to deal with some demons a little bit in the way they played in that final game. So I'm not sure that it was- And the Pacers. You know, the Pacers being there. Was that two years ago with the Pacers?

Yeah, two years ago, the Pacers kind of came out of nowhere, made the final. Hawks got there last year. That's right. Right. Yeah, the Hawks, that last year was the year where the Hawks, beat the Knicks. The Knicks actually lost in the quarterfinals the last two years, I think, Bonn-Temson. I think it was last year where Trey Young came into the garden, won another, you know. Well, the game at the dart and rolled dice at center court.

Yeah, you remember rolled the dice and everybody. I don't know if I would say everybody, but certain people were angry about it. It was talked about in these parts quite a bit. Added to Trey Young's lore as one of the true villains at MSG, which is always fun. Right. But yeah, like, look, this is a young magic team that, you know, very few of these guys have been in any kind of real pressure situations in the NBA. You know, I'm just thinking through their roster. I mean, they have a little bit of playoff experience, but no playoff success.

Right. And even the, even the veteran they brought in. Desmond Bain, he's been in the playoffs on multiple occasions, but he's only won one series. those we find in the West Grizzlies were only able to win one series during that chapter and franchises of history. So, you know, even Bain being the piece they hope could kind of put them over the top

hasn't had a ton of playoff success. I believe he's the only guy on the roster that has advanced out of the first round of the playoffs ever. His former grizzly's teammate, Tyos Jones, would be the other one. Oh, right, him and Tyos, correct. But still, that's a...

Yeah, well, if you're a... Well, he'll do a sex to Tyos, he's not playing that big of a role, but okay. Well, but yeah, so that's, it will be interesting to see how they handle it. I mean, there's going to be, I would think, an awful lot of Knicks fans in Vegas on Saturday. I would say it would be a semi-road game for Orlando. And like I said, these teams have a good amount of history over the past couple of years. They played a lot of times.

And outside of Sunday, the magic have pretty consistently handled them. So I think it's going to be a fun matchup. And, you know, for Palo Ben-Care to have a couple of times, extra days to get his body right after, you know, he's working his way back. We'll see if he can get some more minutes in him and, you know, hopefully the Knicks will be feeling pretty good. Deuce McBride missed Wednesday's game with an anchor or Tuesday's game with ankle sprain. We'll see if he's back for Saturday. But, yeah, I'm excited to watch that game. I think it'll be fun.

And Ben Carroll played 32 minutes a night, so it's not like too tight of a minute's restriction. No. All right. So the East semi-finery. is set in Vegas, and we'll be right back here on the Hoop Collective, where we will go back in time several hours where we tape the other part of this show, and you will see McMahon magically transform back to being in Dallas. He did this first two segments in Oklahoma City after the grueling trip from Dallas. Long flight.

37 minutes. More Hoop Collective Podcast. after this. So on Wednesday, McMahon, you will be on site there in Oklahoma City to see the Suns play against the Thunder in Western Conference Finals' Semifinal 1 or Cup semifinal one. And then in LA... It's an NBA Cup quarterfinals game. That was quite the mealy mouth explanation.

Right. right, but it was like sort of the West semi-finals. I guess it is the NBA Cup quarterfinals. I guess that's the proper terminology. Sorry. Spurs at Lakers in game two. It doesn't sound like great news, McMahon for the sons being able to get

Devin Booker back for this game. They've obviously been playing well without him. I think the line right now, as we're recording this is Thunder by 15 and a half. Which is less than their average point differential. Okay, so that's a compliment to the Suns, right? Seriously, you're basically saying, hey, the Suns are an above average team, especially on the road. You know, that's a compliment.

I mean, the Thunder are almost impossible to beat. Think about it. There are one loss this season. they were up 22 on the second night of a back-to-back with several core guys sitting and Portland was able to rally and beat them by a bucket. This is a juggernaut, maybe unlike any that we have ever seen before.

And the Sons came through OKC recently and actually gave the Thunder a heck of a fight. They were down 15 early in the fourth and got it back to within one. But the crazy, like, of all the things the Thunder do just at an awesome level, closing games might be where they're at their best. Do you know what their clutch net rating is? I'm going to guess it's 30. Wendy? Sounds like he's low. I'll like these prices right. I'll say 31 to try to win. Plus 41.4. We weren't even close.

I just called 30 out of my 10.1.4. Not the only time you've done that. Exactly. And it's not a huge sample size, but it's like 54 minutes. Point being, even if you can't keep it close, typically what happens then is Shay Patsy on the head, you know, Rain and Cajonis Factor player at Munch, Shea, Dilda, Alexander, Patche on the head, knocks down a few mid-range jumpers, hits all his free throws, and you get, and you, and you go home a loser. I mean, I'm not saying they're unbeatable. I'm just sitting here telling you it's far from me to come up. up with a way that the Phoenix Sun's going to go to Oklahoma City, especially if Devin Booker's not available and be able to pull out a wind. It'd be a pretty major upset. Well, I keep, when the topic of how dominant the thunder are come up, I keep really bringing out the last two seasons. So I just want to say that they started last season 11 and 4, which was awesome. Isaiah Hardinstein was out and I feel like one of their other rotation players were out for the first 15 games. Since that time, since they started last season 11 and 4, which that drags down their numbers.

But since starting last season at 11 and 4, they are 80 and 12, I believe, or 80 and 13. they are something like 45 and 3 at home. And this is regular season. They obviously lost some home games in the playoffs. They had 2-7 games series. We remember Tyrese Halliburton hitting that shot right at the end of game one. They lost game one of the finals last year at home. But there's something like since that 11 and 4 start,

there's something like 45 and 3 at home in the regular season. Although, is this count the regular season or is this stuff? count the regular season. This counts for the regular season. We're in the third year of the cup. Yes. They count until the final. It's like a snake draft.

It just never get it. I respect the cup. I don't mean to be flipping. They're also, I just thought of the math while you were talking. It's 80 and 11 since that 11 and 4 start, which is an awfully good winning percentage. It's pretty good. It's incredible. So that's an 88% winning percentage over from 15 games on.

last year onward. And so an 88 winning percentage over 82 games is 72. So I would say that they're already like people are like, can they win 70? I'm like, guys, they've been playing at a 72 win pace. Of course they can win 70. The question isn't can they win 70? The question is, will they win 70 and will they win 74? I think at this point, that's honestly, the real question that we should be having is can this, can they stake a claim to be the best team we've ever seen? potentially because if they go 74 and 8 or 75 and 7 and they win the title, which obviously the Warriors did not do the latter part, like they're going to have an argument to be the best team ever, which is why I hope that they fully embrace this and go after it as the season goes

on because like, yes, I understand that the main thing is the main thing and you want to lift the trophy at the end, but there are very few teams in the history of any sport that have the ability to credibly say they're the best team ever. And this team, through 24 games, is on pace to have that kind of argument. And so I hope they embrace it and chase it. You know what's terrifying? They're 23 and 1, and they've lost the second most player games to injury of any team in the league. It's insane.

Now, you know, some of that's Nicole Topich and Thomas Sorber, obviously, they're rookies. But you know what? So it is, Jalen Williams, who missed the first 17 games of the season. Actually, first 19, and by the way, is basically having to relearn how to shoot a basketball while regaining. He doesn't have full range of motion in that wrist. There's muscle atrophy. Like he's not near himself yet, and they just keep rolling along. You know, Isaiah Hartinstein's been out.

Caruso's missed a bunch of games. Chet's missed some games. He's like Lou Dorts missed a bunch of games. Like, their key guys are missing games. The other night, Shea sat. for the first time all season. They listed with an elbow, I think it was just one of those like, you know, let's just take it easy type of things.

It was interesting. It was against the jazz. It was strategic. I mean, it was against the jazz. How many players do you think the- It'd be the jazz by a thousand. How many, the game was in Utah? How many players do we think that the Thunder would have had to have sat to lose to the jazz?

How many of their, how far down the list would they go? By the way, 10. Howard Markinen was out for that game with illness. And for all I know, he was puking his guts out. I don't have any interest in any insight into that. But it was interesting that shortly after Shea was announced as doubtful, I think. All of a sudden, Markinen popped up.

The reason we're saying this is because the Thunder get the Jazz's pick if it's outside the top eight. So there's just sort of this little interplay between the Jazz and Thunder. I don't think it would have mattered, though, Thunder were winning that game. But I'm just wondering, how far down are we going? I don't know. Brandon Carlson comes in there and lights it up. I'm telling you, they've got, like, the Thunder just, like, Sam Presti just finds quality rotation players in his pockets.

Like, you know, sometimes you put on a pair of jeans and there's a $20 bill in there. You're like, oh, sweet. That's what they do with rotation players in Oklahoma City. I remember probably five or six, I don't know, a number of years ago, Nick Saban, you know, Alabama, he was in the, was in its prime. And I think Alabama like lost like a linebacker. And he was like, you know, I don't remember who it was. It was like a five star recruit linebacker who was like preseason all American.

And if you're an Alabama fan, maybe you can correct me on the exact details of this. But, you know, you know, Sabin was sort of defiant talking about it. He was like, you guys just assume that when we lose a player, we just bleep out another one. you just always assume that we just got another player. Yeah, they do. The guy that they put in, like, made All-American. And that's probably what it feels like to play against the thunder right now for some of these teams. Let's say it definitely does.

I mean, as McBan said, they're favored by 15 and a half, and it's less than their net rating. I mean, it's just staggering. But we should not totally overlook the Suns. You know, they're in a tough spot without Booker. He's averaging 25 a game as their leading score. obviously I have only had Jalen Green for like 30 minutes all season and he won't play in this game. I do think that, you know, there's a couple of success stories on the Sons that we should talk about. You know, one, obviously, we've talked about Colin Gillespie, who has been a terrific find for them as a point card.

Yeah, and awesome. But like, let's acknowledge that Mark Williams, the guy who was cast aside by the, well, I shouldn't say, let me take that back. I don't want to say cast aside. He was, they, they voided is the trade because of physical reasons, which, you know, I think cast aside is fair. I mean, he was, he was cast aside by the Lakers and then he was cast aside by the hornets. Yes, the Hornets got a couple of first round picks in the trade, the 29th pick Liam McNeely, and then a future first for it.

But like, the Hornets opted out of paying Mark Williams and the Lakers opted out of having Mark Williams and then eventually paying Mark Williams. And the sons chase them down. and we'll see if Mark Williams can stay healthy. I think it's a fair question to wonder if he could stay on the court. He's a lot like Robert Williams and that if they are healthy, they are very effective players. But look, he's, you know, 25 minutes a game. He's averaging 13 and 8 and he's giving him good production.

He's shooting 66% from the field. I mean, he's a really big wobb threat in the paint and he's, you know, again, it's only a matter of health with him. If he could stay on the court, he'll be a useful piece. And also, like, we've talked about him some, but, you know, Dylan Brooks has come in and giving them good minutes. Like, good minutes. He's averaging 22 in setting a tone in terms of toughness. Yes.

I mean, I think it's, I mean, he's still pretty inefficient. But it, to me, it's what you talked about, I think, on the last pod where whatever you want to say about Dylan Brooks and his antics at times, like he has gone to three different teams and has helped change the culture of each of those teams and instilled it with an edge that. has been really beneficial. And sometimes the edge can go too far the other way. You know, certainly that was the case in Memphis. I don't think it was the case in Houston and we'll see if it's the case in Phoenix. But he deserves a lot of credit for the way this is going. And Jordan Ott deserves a ton of credit. Because yes, there's certain pieces that aren't there from last year and the mix around the team is better. But this is the first time head coach who has walked in and not had a full roster all the time and has done, I think, a great job across the board.

You mentioned how Mark Williams is getting a lot of dunks. I got the number. Oh, let's hear it. In 20 games. By the way, how do you shoot 66% dunk a lot? 30% of his shots. Probably the best play. 30% of his shots have been dunks.

He has 45, 45 dunks in 20 games. Even I know that's two and a half a game. Well, also Igbado, who's their sort of back. backup big, one of their backup bigs. They got a bunch of bigs. He's got 21 thugs in 24 games. Would have been 46 for Mark Williams, but our pal, Rudy Gaubert,

gave him a mid-air, forearm shiver to the ribs to get a flagrant to and put Rudy within a couple of flavor points of getting a suspension. Yeah. I was a pretty blatant cheap shot. But no, Williams has been great.

And look, the Suns came into this season with a couple of goals. a few goals, I would say, that are all directly related. Reset the franchise's culture, put a competitive product on the floor, and stop the head coach carousel from spinning, right? This is going to be the first time since Matt Ishpia's bought the team that they're going to have the same head coach in two straight years because they have a head coach in Jordanat who is doing a heck of a job who is getting the players to buy it and the players feel like

there's a relationship that it's a two-way street. And, you know, so that was critical. They wanted to be kind of a tough, hard-playing, you know, fast-paced type of team. They certainly have accomplished that. And, you know, they're going Oklahoma City at 14 and 10. I think people would have thought they were more likely to be in 14th place than 1410. No doubt. So this is no doubt.

It's been a very successful early season for the Phoenix Suns. And like they've got to keep finding guys like Colin Gillespie and making trades for people like Mark Williams. You know, my biggest criticism, frankly, of the Suns since the end of the last season, they should have pounced on the deal from the New Orleans Pelicans. The Pelicans were calling every team about Derek Queen trying to move up. Yeah. For the sons to be able to get another star, that's the kind of trade that they probably have to make. But again, all their goals entering the season, the sons are well on their way to accomplishing.

Yeah, well, not everybody got off for the deal that the Hawks ended up pulling off. There's probably a 30 for 30 there on that trade potentially, depending on how it goes. But Derek Queen, I should point out, had his first career triple double on Monday. Derek Queen's a hack with players. Still a terrible trade. All right. In the late game on Wednesday, we got the Spurs going to the Lakers in the Cup quarter finals. There you go.

We were hoping that Victor Wenbino would be able to play for this game, and it hasn't, as of right now, we're recording this. We don't have a firm answer on that, but he did not practice with the Spurs on Tuesday, which is not a good sign, especially when you've been out for a couple of weeks. So maybe that's not going to happen. The Spurs have gotten healthier, though, with Stefan Castle is back. And they've done really, they've done really well without Victor. I believe they're seven and three. Eight and three. Eight and three.

I believe there are eight and four with them, eight and three without it. him. So, hey, take your time, Dickfella. Who needs Victor Wemniama? They probably need them against the Lakers in L.A. I should point out, you know, there's been a lot of attention to play to some other rookies. Dylan Harper is quietly, he's come back from his injuries, and he's putting together solid game after solid game. He is not shooting the ball grade from range, and they're bringing him off the bench, but they're keeping his workload manageable. He's averaging 14 points for assist. in 22 minutes a game,

just shooting 28% on threes. That could improve. But production up and down the lineup from San Antonio. They're going to need it, especially if Victor can't do in this game. Dearen Fox has been playing very well offensively. He's back to full power. Vassell, Devin Vassell, has had some good games.

Coming off the bench, Kelton Johnson's had some good games. Harrison Barnes recently has been put up some big games. They've got a very deep roster, and they've been showing it off. And, you know, they're going to need it because, you know, the Lakers have proven that they can put up points. And they're going to need it in this game, McMahon. I'm not sure about Phoenix's chances of pulling the road team upset, but the spurs are much closer with Vegas. Four and a half, as of right now, the Lakers' favorite.

Well, look, when you talk about the flaws of the Lakers, I think you talk about perimeter defense pretty early in that conversation. And so, you know, the Spurs got three guys who can really do some damage off the dribble in Deeram Fox, Stefan Castle, and Dylan Harper. I'm not saying I expect them to pull off the win without Victor Wiminyama in L.A. But if they are going to do that, I think it's going to be because, you know, one or two or all three of those guys really gets going in terms of getting in the teeth in the deep. and making things happen. And, you know, I will also just say, as a quick aside, as you're going to the trade machine over the next, what is a couple of months here, don't bother putting Dylan Harper and Fond Castle in any trades.

And if that means you can't come up with things to get some huge blockbuster done for the Spurs, I would say, yeah, that's right. Those guys are going to be in San Antonio, I believe, the long, long time. I think they've got this generation's version of Duncan Parker, Genoble. I like the young guards. Let's see, let's see if they can continue to improve to get close to that level. But I do like those guys a lot. And yeah, I don't think it would make a lot of sense for them to rush things with Victor and these guys. You know, they should let it cook a little bit more. And they still do have some stuff to do. Like, they have a, I don't, I'm not sure I quite agree.

on how deep their roster is overall. I think they've got some long-term holes. They've got to fill. But they have done Mitch Johnson, and I think it's done a really nice job with the way they've sort of built this team out and the way they're playing. Like he's getting a ton out of Kelton Johnson,

who's played really well. You know, they've got Kelly Olinick back. He gives them a bit of a spacing option off the bench. They've done a nice job with. Julian Champani has been a really nice piece for them. Again, he's not a guy people immediately think of, but he's a really good shooter. You know, long wing can stay in the way on defense,

like another guy that's a useful piece. Like they're filling in the roster around their big time guys the way they need to, probably need another piece or two before they're truly where they want to be. But again, like Victor has barely played the last three weeks and they're 16 and 7 on their way into this game against the Lakers with a chance to go to Vegas. And certainly,

I think they're definitely ahead of schedule and playing really well. And I'll also be curious to see, like, we saw them go, in this game against New Orleans, he shot 17 for 36 from three. I think that's going to be the swing thing in this game. The Lakers do not shoot a ton of threes typically. That I think if the spurs have a hot shooting night, I think that could be the thing that swings this one way or the other. Even though the Lakers do score, they don't necessarily score in that way. Well, just to be clear, the win over the Pelicans, when Derek Quinn's,

you had a 30-some-odd point triple-double was not the Spur's most impressive work. No, no. First half was impressive, and then the third quarter was a disaster. McMahon, Luca Donchich is leading the NBA in usage rate. What else is new? Well, on a team with Austin Reeves and LeBron James, I know LeBron's only played seven games, but it's higher than I thought it would be. But, I mean, you know, just it's more evidence.

I mean, Luca, leading the league basically in usage rate playing with kind of Reherving and those guys too? And look, LeBron hasn't played much. And then of those seven games, Luca missed what, two or three of those. So there's not, those three, as a trio, they haven't been in the

lineup a lot together. Obviously Austin Rees. I mean, they're 17 and six. It's working. I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying he's, this is still Luca ball 101. Oh, yeah, no. He's still the center of that solar system for sure. And look, he will be for the

next 10 years. I don't envision that changing. 34% of LeBron's shot so far have been threes. He's only taking three free throws a game, which is, you know, his free throws numbers have been falling as he's gotten older for various reasons. You know, if he has a good, if his jump shot is falling, he's going to be still pretty effective. The question is, is how effective can he be when the jump shot isn't falling? You know, he still does so many things impressive, you know, mentally. You know, he had a steal at the end of the game that basically iced the game the other night in Philly where he totally diagnosed the Sixers play before they even ran it and he jumped the passing lane,

which is just another, you know, he's done that hundreds of times at his career. I've always, I've told the story a bunch, not this story, but I mean, it happened many times, but it was always fascinating when LeBron was in the locker room after the game, watching other games. And I've talked about how, you know, Tony Romo got a lot of, you know, a lot of attention

because he would predict plays. Well, I mean, if LeBron ever did color commentary, which by the way, would be amazing. I can't see him ever doing it, but it would be amazing. He's doing a podcast. Yeah, I know,

but like it would be amazing if he did it in real time because I'm just telling you, I've seen him watch games in real time. And I've seen him repeatedly predict play. the teams are going to run, especially out of timeouts. I've done this with it.

I recently had dinner with an advance scout, a long-time advance scout, and we were watching a game. We were actually watching his team play. So he had just prepared his team for this game that was playing. We were watching the game, and his team was in a last five second. They were defending it out-of-bounds play. And he goes, this team is going to run this play. and he even, he like told me he exactly predicted what was going to happen.

And sure enough, that's exactly the play that they ran. He goes, I hope our assistant is ready for this and they were. They got to stop and whatever. So that was really cool. That's that guy's whole job. And he had just gotten done with preparing a scouting report. Like he had just turned it in like the day before, the two days before. So he was like super ready.

I've seen LeBron do this accurately predict what teams are going to run at the end of games in real time watching on television in locker rooms. I've seen it numerous times. And we got to see it in a game where he basically spied what the Sixers were doing and intercepted the pass, jumping the passing lane. So LeBron's still going to make plays doing that. And yeah, the question is can his body keep up? Like the mind is going to be there.

But, you know, we again, like we talked about the other day, the game I was at, he won that game for the Lakers by standing in one spot and hitting jump shots because the Sixers didn't successfully run him off the three point line. And he got hot and in a rhythm and kept catching it in the same spot and feeling great, which he, like you said, is going to have moments where he does that. The other games when he hasn't hit shots, it hasn't looked great because he can't at this point get into the paint. And I think that's going to be the thing that determines whether we see some market improvement or if this is just kind of what it's going to be because he's not going to go 12 for 17 every game. He's not. And if he's not able to go 12 for 17 every game, he's got to be able to get in the

lane and get to the line and put pressure on the defenses that way to be really effective. I also think his moving is going to be the thing that can determine what the actual ceiling of the Lakers is as a team. Because at the end of the day, if you have Luca Donchich or Austin Reeves or LeBron James out there, and they're your worst defender, you can put together a decent defense, I think. If you have all three of them playing, especially this version of LeBron, that is pretty limited physically, at least so far. You could scheme all the things you want. I'm not sure how J.J. Reddick is going to be able to put together a good enough defensive team, which is why the Lakers so far, I think, fifth or sixth in offense and their 20th in defense. Yeah, the other thing with LeBron, I think, is going to be interesting to watch

is how much he is able to get out in transition. He did make some plays in transition against Philly. I mean, and part of that's getting his conditioning right. Obviously, he's been one of the most You know, we're one of the best conditioned athletes his entire career. So getting as close to that level as he can at his advanced age. But Luke is the best touchdown, you know, pass deliverer in the NBA. Like Luca is, you know, he'll put 50, 60, 70 foot assist. And, you know, you saw that. That was the one thing that did click with Luke and LeBron right away.

As the Bronn said, he's a natural born wide receiver. And Luke is a heck of a quarterback. you know, they've got to get LeBron back into that mode where he's able to get the easy buckets in transition. I don't know if that's fair to ask a 40-year-old. Well, we'll see if the Lakers can get back and try to get to Vegas for the second time in three years in the Cup. They're probably going to have a tough whistle because I'm not sure if the league wants to see that. All right. On our last podcast, we had some discussion about the NBA schedule and some of the, some of the

comments that head coaches and other players had about the difficulty of the intensity of the schedule for the first 25 or so games of the season. And the league office wanted to, what? Ooh, you guys got your wrist slapped a little bit, did you? I will just say that the league office wanted to provide some context about how this season's schedule by the numbers is comparable to recent seasons. So this is at the start of the week. There's almost spend no games. There was three games on Monday. There's two games on Tuesday night, so it doesn't really make a difference. As of Monday morning. As of Monday morning, the NBA through Monday morning, had played 308 games, and last year, by the same point, they were 307. And if you want to go to

the pre-MBA Cup schedule, with the last time that was the case, was in 22, 23, was 308. So basically flat. Dating to 2021, it was 313. But I don't. that was still COVID-affected, but certainly the last three years, or certainly comparable. So, yes, I asked about five and sevens because there have been some teams that have felt fatigued by five and sevens. I know there's a couple of teams, I believe, who have had two different stretches of five and sevens. And for the full season, the number of five and sevens, are down per team from 1.93 per team last year to 1.67. And so far, the teams are averaging 0.57. So less, so basically one, every other team is basically I had a 5 and 7. 0.57 per team so far.

And last year, it's it's flat with before the NBA Cup, which was 0.57 in 2022. So the league's point is that statistically there is no more games played to this point, either compared to last year or compared to pre-MBA Cup schedule. That is the league's statistics they have provided for context. Well, and I will say, would you like to comment, sir, because you were awfully aggressive the other day. Yeah, I mean, listen, the numbers are what they are. And I was going to say, I, obviously, the numbers do not reflect the intuition of people in the league. And I was going to say, the funny thing about this is the night before we did the pod, I was watching the Sacramento Kings smack the heat

and the Washington Wizards smack the hawks in the second half, a second night of a back to back. What a night that was. Well, there was just, I had the quad box on, sitting here on my couch. He was searching for his social media video. And I had the,

I had the, I had Cavs Corner losing to the Pat Spencer show all at the same time on the second night of a back to back. And so I texted our guy, Stats Williams, and I said, man, it feels like these teams on second night of back to backs are just getting run all the time. And I was thinking there was a correlation with how fast the game is being played this year and the team is being worn out. So stats, because he's a brighter guy than all of us, said it's funny. I was thinking this the other day and I looked it up myself. And this year, teams without rest, so on a back to back, have a 48% winning percentage, which would be the highest. since the 50 game lockout short and season

and the highest in a full season in over 40 years. Wow. So it's not always that what you think you see is what the reality is. So there you go. Numbers lie. All right. So let that context be added to the forum of discussion.

All right. Meanwhile, we'll see how coaches still keep talking about it because down the line they are all talking about it. Well, you know what though? Like if a coach really feel feels like the schedule is unfair. Maybe they can just do like Notre Dame football and say,

we're taking our ball and going home. We don't think this is fair. We're not going to play this. Well, look, at the end of the day, every team plays the same number of games in the same stretch of days from October through April. You have the same number of home games, the same number of road games.

When you look at individual stretches, whether they be 10 game stretches or 20 games stretches, some are going to be more difficult than others. Every team believes that it is victimized in their schedule somewhere. another. Generally all evens out because it does all even out because it's all the same in the end. You can't say that anymore because you say when the schedule comes out of one at home, 41 on the road. I'm just, look, a number of, there's been a, it's been a topic of conversation in the league.

The league is basically saying the numbers don't lie. Humans lie. The numbers don't lie. All right. Thank you very much to Jackson for putting this together. Thank you for McMahon and Bontemps, bending their travel schedules to make this work. And we'll talk. to you later this week. I'll be somewhere else. Adios amigos.