Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Cavs & Harden Go All-In + Disastrous Summer in Denver? & Updates On Lakers' Drama

Episode Date: August 21, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Dave McMenamin to break down the multiteam trade between the Cavs, Nuggets and Clippers highlighted by Cleveland getting Peyton Watson, Max Strus going to LA and Denver getting picks. The guys discuss what this means for each team in the deal including reaction to James Harden’s extension. Next, the guys tackle all of the drama surrounding the Lakers’ ownership from Jeanie Buss to Mark Walters. Finally, how will this impact the current team and Luka Doncic’s future in LA? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. Hello, welcome the HOOC Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday afternoon,

joining us from Los Angeles, California. Dave McMedman. What's up, Brian? What up, Tim? And that is Dave jumping in front of me and introducing from Dallas, Texas, Van McMan. Howdy, partners? I like the backyard Mac 10.

I mean, going for the Slater vibes there. Yeah, that's jumbly. One with nature in the offseason. That's one, something we. we can all strive to try to achieve. Well, there's another guy in L.A. in a good mood right now, and that's James Harden, because today he signed a three-year, $97 million, fully guaranteed contract with the Cavs, with a player option. God bless America.

Well, listen, you know, he worked with him, and it worked out well for him. We'll talk about that aspect of it in a few minutes here. But so we had a mid-August sign and trade. I'm going to tell you, like, let's just, I just want to be real here. Like, there's some good agenting that has been done here because to, for Rich Paul and his, in his, you know, colleagues at Clutch to pull off

getting Peyton Watson signed and traded in the middle of August with no cap space out there in a fight, where the Cavs had to do a five-team trade to execute it. Like, seriously, you can say whatever you want. you can say I'm pandering, go ahead. I don't really care. If you say that, you don't know. That's pretty good work by Rich Paul. And Peyton Watson comes out of this pretty good, considering the landscape. He gets four years and 88 million with a player option. I don't understand why everybody and their brother gets a player option these days, but that's out of the barn and down around the corner. McMahon. Payton Watson gets four years 88 million. The Cavs do all kinds of different things to get this player. There's a lot of aspects of this to go through.

The Cavs aspect, the Nuggets aspect, the Clippers aspect. Let's start with the Cavs. I actually want to start with my aspect. Okay. I had a bet with Bon Tems that Peyton Watson would get more than mid-level. This is significantly more than mid-level. So just as soon as the NBA League office gets done with this aspiration investigation, I'm going to ask them to determine whether Bon Temps as a team,

team employee can still pay off a bet that he made before he was hired. So there's that. But for the Cavs, listen, man, this didn't come without a cost. And, you know, the 231 pick, okay. But the cost, you know, as you mentioned when you basically very accurately forecasted this deal on our last pod is they really thinned out the depth of the roster. And I think you can kind of look at it as they need Payton, Watson to come in and be an upgrade to the combined production of Max

Struce, who was hurt most last year, but Max Struce and Dean Wade. Now, if he produces like he did last year, which unfortunately was cut short due to injuries, and I think this is going to be a pretty sweet deal for them. He's obviously a young guy, extremely athletic. I think they have one of the best defensive front courts in the league now, putting him alongside Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. And then last year he had a great, or really good breakout offensive season where he shot at almost 50% from the floor and better than 40% from three-point range,

a much higher volume than he had in the past. But he got paid on a pretty small sample size of production. Yeah, Dave, in January and February, before he got his hamstring injury, Now, there were other injuries being affecting the Nuggets at the time, which is one of the reasons why he got the opportunity. But in January and February, Peyton Watson went on an 18 game stretch where he started all 18 games. He averaged 36 minutes.

So this is a guy who's averaged in the low to mid-20s before that. So he was getting full-on starters minutes was probably, I don't have this looked up, he probably was averaging, he was probably one of the NBA leaders in minutes during that stretch because the Nuggets just didn't have depth and they were banged up. He was averaging 36 minutes. In that stretch, he averaged 21 points and shot 45% from three. He also averaged five rebounds and three assists.

And so the question really is, is that 18 game stretch before he pulled his hamstring? Is that the current Peyton Watson? Is that Peyton Watson four years into his career, eight, now age 23, heading into his prime, six foot eight, excellent shot blocker for a wing? is that the Peyton Watson? Because if that's Peyton Watson, Dave, the Cavs doing a five-team trade and giving away a whole bunch of players,

that's a hell of a pickup. Or is Peyton Watson the guy who he was before and after that, which is a guy who's a quality piece, a starter quality piece, but averages 12, 13 points and for his career shot under 40% from three. Well, do they want him to be that guy

who had those numbers for the 18 games because part of it, as you alluded to, was because of the reason Nuggets had players who were also out during that stretch. So he was thrust into a larger role. What they want them to be is a dynamic two-way threat who can also be a clamped down defender on the perimeter when you already have Mowbly and Allen patrolling down on the paint,

be able to make open shots. But, I mean, the ball is going to be in Donovan Mitchell's hands and James Hardin's hands. He's, I think for sure, on that pecking order in terms of shot attempts per game. Now, obviously, in transition, you want to get him the ball, he can finish six foot eight long, good athlete, get him to the foul line, you know, obviously those type of scenarios to get his touches and gets his minutes, get his kind of numbers that way. But I think what the cabs got is just an addition

of talent when, as you mentioned, they had lost some talent. And as good as Max Drews was, the first year after they acquired him from Miami, he was not really a part of their team last year. And so in this particular deal, you are giving up to the future first round pick, but you're not really giving up a player that last year's team relied on. Well, so here's the thing.

So during that stretch of games, because of the injuries of Nuggets had, including, you know, Yokic being out, the ball was in Peyton Watson's hand. So his usage rate, in December, you know, I'm slicing the season up, but in December when he was a starter, and playing 28 minutes a game, his usage rate was 17.

Okay? His usage rate in January when he played all those games and all those minutes, his usage rate jumped to 27. 27. So part of the reason why he got that huge surge in output was because the nuggets were in trouble. They put the ball in his hand and said, Peyton, you know, make some plays for us. And he did. And I'm going to float.

And I'm going to say this. let's take a look at the Cavs roster now because here's the thing. This trade, it looks like Max Drews a first and a second for Peyton Watson, but that's not really what the Cavs did. If you look at where they were to start the offseason, and they were a second apron team last year, okay? But they let Dean Wade walk in free agency. They let Keon Ellis walk in free agency.

They trade Dennis Schrooter. They did two moves basically to get off Dennis Schroeder's money. They traded for Trayman, and then they flipped Trayman for Cam Whitmore, who they waved and stretched. And those, say, series of transactions got off of Schroeder's money. But still, they had to get off of Schroeder's money to enable them to sign and trade for Payton Watson

because you're hard-capped under the first apron if you acquire a player of sign-in trade. So even though those players didn't go to Denver, those players came off the Cavs roster to make it happen. So really, the calves are down. Ellis, Struce, Wade, Schroeder. okay, and the first round pick, the unprotected 30, 2,031 first round pick.

All of those things came off their roster. So here's what's left. Now, they do have two roster spots, and I expect them to fill those roster spots. But as we sit here right now, their starting point guard is James Harden. Their backup point guard is Craig Porter, who's been a at times backup for them,

but has been mostly a third string guard. Maybe he's going to be really good. That's their backup point guard. their backup three behind Peyton Watson is Mario Hizonia, who is a non-guaranteed contract who's coming over after six years playing in Europe. I don't even know if he's going to work. And then other than that, you have Jalen Tyson and Sam Meryl. Those are like their two, three backups.

So behind Donovan Mitchell and Peyton Watson, it's Sam Meryl, Mario Hizonia, Jalen Tyson. I'll throw in Tyrese Proctor, who was your second round pick in 2025. Like maybe he's ready to play minutes. But I was going to say two years ago when the Cavs had that 60-win season, if you remember that roster that they had, okay, they had, you know, Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, but their backups were Ty Jerome, who got six man of the year of votes.

DeAndre Hunter, who I know had a bad year last year and got traded, but he got six-year of the man, six-man-of-year votes. Dean Wade, who's been there, who's the starter most of last year, Carus Lavert, still a key rotation player in the NBA, Sam Merrill, Isaac O'Coro, they had like 11 or 12 players that they really could rely on. So here's their bench now. Craig Porter, Jalen Tyson, Sam Merrill,

and their two backup bigs behind Evan Moby and Jared Allen. As of today, now they have roster spots, but take a look at their free agents. It's not, you know, when you do a deal that creates roster spots and you need minimums in, In July, you know, you have a choice. When you do that deal in August, you know, your choices are way down. They're backup bigs.

McMahon, do you even know who their two backup bigs are? And I'm not trying to put you on the spot. If you can tell me who- Thomas Bryant is one of them. Thomas Brian is their backup center. If you know who their backup four is, by the way, I couldn't probably do this for other teams. I couldn't tell you the Mavericks too deep. Their backup four, as of right now, is Naquan Tomlin,

who was on a two-way to start last season. So, listen, that's starting fun. Harden, Mitchell, Watson, Mobley, and Allen, like, it's pretty good. And if Peyton Watson, like, look, the hardest thing to get in the NBA is athletic two-way wings, right? Like, that's the hardest. I mean, the superstars are a hardest thing to acquire. But if you're trying to build out your team, that's why the Knicks paid so dearly to get Mikhail Bridges and O.G. And Anobi, because getting those types of wings are hard.

The calves think they got one in Watson. and they think that Jalen Tyson, who's their young rookie, can develop into a key two-way way. But the calves are awfully thin right now. Okay, now here's the second part of this deal. To allow this to happen, remember that James Hardin opted out of a contract

would have paid him $43 million this year. Now, that contract was not fully guaranteed. It was only guaranteed $12 million. But the truth is the calves weren't going to cut him. He's their starting, he's their franchise point card. So if he opted into that contract, contract, they would have paid them the $43 million. He was getting the money. Okay. So James Harden was willing to opt out of that contract and sit around all summer and basically pick up the phone whenever the Cavs called, calling his agents more than

anything, but, and say, yeah, I'll go down a little farther. I'll go down a little farther. And so as the calves made various moves, Harden not only was willing to reduce his salary, but he was willing to recruit. He, from what I understand, like, and I assume Donovan Mitchell was too, I haven't heard this, but he recruited Peyton Watson. He was on the, I guess at the, at the Fanatics Fest where you hung out, Dave, you had a, you had a fun couple of days there at the Javis Center. They were both there. And, like, at that time, you know, the Cavs were recruiting Watson and Hardin, like, was with him and, like, recruited him. And Watson is from L.A., and Hardin is from L.A., and they had some connection there, even though they're, you know, I think 13 years apart.

And so the bill came due, McMahon, the bill came due. And so James Harden gets a three-year, $97 million contract, all guaranteed. And the third year is a player option. I bet you he'll pick that option up. Well, or he'll opt out of it and do this again in a couple years. He'll be pretty old to be opting out of it at that point. Well, he's turning 37 next week. birthday early to James. This is from 37, 38, 39. This contract will take, well, I'll stop on that.

McMahon, three years, $97 million for fully guaranteed for James Harden. God bless America. Listen, man, the calves are all in on right now and they're trying to kind of, which is a tough spot to be, you're all in on right now with real questions about your bench. And not a whole lot of ways you can go about upgrade. Aren't they a hard cap now as well? Yes, they are. So to upgrade the bench even during the season is going to be extremely difficult to be able to pull that off. And, you know, Wadden is kind of a combination of being all in now and trying to give yourself some long-term upside. And I do think he has long-term upsides. You know, you mentioned the 18-game stretch.

There's really a half-season stretch as a starter for him. 38 games since, you know, Christian Brown got hurt and he started every game he played. played after that. It was 17 and a half points shooting better than 50%, 44 from 3, you know, decent rebanner, good defender. And I remember in the middle of that stretch, you know, when he was really rolling, they came in Dallas and I was talking to Aaron Gordon about him. And the thing that really surprised people is like, because you always said about Watson,

like, hey, if he can just become a decent three-point shooter, he's going to be a really nice player. And he had proven that. And then you saw him doing all this stuff off the dribble. It's like, whoa, you didn't know we could do that. Well, listen, with the calves depth at ball handler, you know, we'll hear from Kenny Atkinson and Kobe Alman in the coming days. The calves may need him to do some of that. I mean, he'll be their secondary ball hand.

They're in the lineup when one of their guards is sitting. I would think a lot of times. But I remember I was talking to Aaron Gordon. He said, dude, we see this stuff when we play pickup and things like that. We've seen him for a while. He said he reminds me of a young point. George. Now, I think that might be hyperbole there. You know, young Paul George is awfully good. But his point was he looked at Watson as a really dynamic, athletic, versatile 6-8 wing.

And, you know, if that's what the calves are getting, then honestly, the deals, it's not crazy money. 22 million is not, and today's NBA is not a crazy number. It's up with a starter money. Look, you can talk to different people who give you different opinions. He's 23 years old. So they're signing him for ages 23 to 26. Basically, he's 23, 24, 25 years, whatever. I feel okay about signing a player to that kind of a deal when they're in their mid-20s. I'm not, you know, you can find people that don't like paying him 22 a year.

If that's when you're going to gamble. Including the nuggets, apparently. Yeah, well, we'll talk about the nuggets in a minute. I, you know how you guys know how I feel. When a contract gets signed, I asked a question, can this contract be traded? I've talked to executives today who have said, I don't like that contract. But I've also talked to executives who've said he's 23 years old. That's probably going to age pretty well.

If he was 33 years old, I wouldn't like it. But 23 years old, I like it. So I don't think they could trade it for huge value this afternoon. I'm not of the concerns I have about this Cavs maneuver, I'm concerned that they have no depth because they've hollowed out their depth to do this. I'm concerned that they now have no tradable first. So when they need to add to their depth, that they're hard capped and they have nothing to add to the team. Of the things I'm concerned about with Cleveland, whether Watson is going to be this type of player,

whether they can fill out their roster properly. The level of contract is not at the top right now. Sorry, huh. I do think we should discuss Hardden just a little bit more here. Sean said reporting in his story that he is now going to become the fourth player in league history to make over half a billion dollars in salary. And obviously, the other three are the Olympic teammates in 24 and LeBron, Kevin Durant, and Steph Curry. And it's just kind of a fascinating look at James Harden's career.

to step back. Obviously the MVP, the trip to the finals with the Thunder. But to be able to have that, this career earnings is part of what he's able to accomplish in the league,

probably somewhat underrated in terms of what he's done in the league. Right, but when you stack him up against those other three guys, like there's one pretty obvious, glaring omission from his resume. And his finals trip was as a six-man, he's not got,

of team to the finals as a lead guy or even as a starter and obviously no championship. So, I mean, he's a no-brainer Hall of Famer. But when you discuss, and legacy to me is an overused word. But when you discuss Hardin's legacy, unfortunately, you get to the playoff failures pretty quickly. Let me just say this. So we talked about agenting, you know, and earlier this summer, just the recap, like I was very willing to praise Aaron Mintz and CAA for how they handled. I mean, Aaron Mintz and CAA getting Trey Young taking care of, starting with the trade out of Atlanta, and getting

Walker Kessler taking care of. Good run. Great stuff. Rich Paul, I just said Peyton Watson. Now I'm going to shout out Mike Silverman and Detroit Payne, who are what, who hardens agents. last year like I don't remember the exact date don't hold me this date but you know there was some point in December January where the clippers decided they were pulling the plug you know they got off to that bad start then they got hot but they didn't believe in the team obviously they traded a bit of Zubatch they obviously traded Hardin and then eventually they traded Kauai if that ever actually goes through but but but Hardin had this like team option or you know like it was a player option but you know a few you know, 12 million or 13 million guaranteed.

So he's sitting there. He knows he's about to be traded. And his future contracts weren't assured. And that trade to Cleveland was manufactured by the agents. The agents went out and found the deal. Now, the Cavs liked him and, you know, were watching the situation too. So they go out, just like the deal to Washington was partially executed by CAA. Okay. And so just like, you know, you talk about power and, you know, the influence of power in the NBA.

Like, yeah, the two teams have to do it. There's all kinds of relationships that matter in trades. You know, for example, the Cavs do this deal where Trayman passes through their hands to Washington. The part of the reason the train man is now in Washington is because Will Dawkins, the GM, drafted him when he was in Oklahoma City. So there's all these things that happen, right? But they get Hardin into a spot where they're willing to pay them. And if you had told me when the Clippers were pulling the plug on last season and about to trade Hardin away, that Hardin was going to end up in a three-year, $100 million deal, all guaranteed the following summer. I would have told you you were nuts.

Hardin's a pretty good businessman himself. Agree. Well, yeah, well, he had to play well. He played well in Cleveland. He created a relationship with head coach. Kenny Atkinson, and he created a relationship with the organization. And, like, how did he feel about moving from his hometown of L.A. to Cleveland? I don't know how he really felt, but you'd never saw it show up in his attitude or his performance

on the court. Macton, you were a big basketball fan growing up. Who was your favorite agent as a kid? Well, that's why we talk about, what are we doing on a podcast? Like, that's the point. David Falk, baby, Syracuse alone. Let's go. Was he from Syracuse?

Back. Syracuse and MJ. Come on. Let's go. Oh, Lordy. I walked. into a Syracuse reference. That's right.

Yeah, well, these guys are Michigan guys, Silverman and Payne, so I don't really want to give them too much credit. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk.

Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers. in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. One day, you're negotiating with suppliers. The next, you're installing a shelf in the back room. Running a business means moving in many directions all the time.

TD's new small business banking accounts are built for how your business moves. It's how we're making banking more human. All right, anyway, let's move on. on McMahon to the Nuggets part of this. So here's the thing. The nuggets, from what I understand, offered Watson around four years and 70 million. That was reported elsewhere, but I checked on it. I'm not sure it was at 70 million. It might have been a hair under. And they offered him that deal before. Call it 17 a year. Okay. They offered that deal before the Thunder

put them to the test with Spencer Jones on that $6 million a year deal. And here's the thing. From what I am told, the Nuggets had options to trade Cam Johnson and get them off of their books. There were teams that were willing to do that where they wouldn't have been penal to them, that they could have moved Cam Johnson. I'm not sure that they could have moved Christian Brown for value. Brown had it was injured all last year, has a $100 million contract that's just starting. They probably could have traded them, but not for actual, like, one of the things that they do.

But they could have traded Cam Johnson, and they could have not matched on Spencer Jones. Okay. They made the decision to keep those two guys. And not that Jones and Watson are exact apples to apples, because obviously one's 16 million and one's 20 million. But they had options on their plate, just like the Thunder. If the Thunder had wanted to keep Lou Dord, there were options that existed. for them to do that. Okay.

I know that the Thunder gave this Valentine to Lou out the door and all this stuff, but at the end of the day, the Thunder chose a different path than Lou Doort. Obviously, the Nuggets are now in the second apron. They were not going to be able to keep this entire team together. Okay. They, I think, here's the nuance.

Were they willing to keep Peyton Watson? Yes. That's why they offered him a multi-year contract for 17. ish million dollars a year. But there was a threshold in where they preferred the Cam Johnson, Spencer Jones duo, and Brown. I'll put that in there too, but I don't think Brown was really moving this summer. And they chose that pathway. So make a bet what you will. Let's talk about the pathway they chose last summer. You know, if you want to talk about what's happened to the Nuggets or Austria, you've got to go back to really last fall. And that's when Christian Brown got a

five year, $125 million extension, and they couldn't come to an agreement with Peyton Watson, who at the time wanted like mid-level money, wanted like $14 million a year, and the nuggets wouldn't go a dollar over $10 million, was my understanding. Look, hindsight's 2020. They had to do all over again. They had to give him Peyton Watson as $14 million and waited on Christian Brown and been in discussions with him and they'd probably been able to keep them both. but that's not the way that things played out. Well, it might have been Christian Brown, who was in a restricted free agent Quagmire.

It might have been, it might have been deemed that one of them was going to be gone anyway. Right. And, you know, the Spencer Jones thing was a tricky little curveball thrown by Sam Presti that added to it. You know, there, there was all this noise about the nuggets are willing to keep everybody, pay everybody, you know, pay whatever luxury tax bill. even after losing Peyton Watson, who was, you know, one of their five best players, Tim Hardaway, who was the sixth man of the year candidate, even after losing those two guys

from last year's roster, they have a $75 million tax bill that stared him in the face, and they're over the second apron to get bounced in the first round and get worse. And by the way, they got bounced in the first round by a really wounded. Timberwolves team. Remember, I ain't got hurt in that series. Dante DiGincenzo, unfortunately went down for within Achilles. By the way, Peyton Watson did not play in that series. And, you know, there were some folks with the Nuggets who kind of look at that situation sideways saying he's putting business above the team right now. I didn't see the MRIs. I couldn't tell you whether that's true or not. But this is a bad, bad summer for the Denver Nuggets,

They're really expensive. Well, and let's not forget that Yolkidj did not extend, whatever, how old were you want to spin that. Yeah. And look, everything Joker has said, every indication from him is he is not ever going to consider leaving Denver as long as he's wearing him in a uniform. You speak Serbian, Tim? I don't. But I haven't heard him say it in English. Yeah, that's all I'm saying.

Sure. No, he said in English. He said it. Okay. Which is not this summer, but here's a thing, though. None of that stuff is binding, and they're damn sure are going to be teams that are hoping that he either changes his mind or, you know, call it what you want. And there's a ton of pressure on the Nuggets. There's pressure on the front office.

There's pressure on the coaching staff. There's pressure on ownership. And that's regardless of the Joker's contractual situation, you have one of the greatest players of all time who, took you to the top of the mountain and you are in serious danger of essentially wasting the rest of his career. I think the question that you got to ask though is, we know how great he is. And of course, every superstar, as we've seen, Brian and I in particular cover in LeBron, if you're that great, the pursuit is to try to add much talent around you because it just opens up your window that much longer and that much wider. However, at what point do we say that they've done everything

they can to fill the team around to the point where they're in the second apron? And this could become a Milwaukee situation where you just have a finite amount of time in order to have enough resources to put around a player like that. Or I'll give you another example. It becomes the Dirk situation where even if Joker stays, he's staying and if Boston, it's a one franchise not his legend, he's loyal, but he doesn't have a chance to compete for a championship for the rest of his prime and his Twilight. And not only have they gone in the second apron and done all these things, this pick that they got from Cleveland is now the only tradable pick that they have.

And by the way, do you know who owns their 27 and 29 picks from two separate deals? I'll give you one guess. OKC, I think. Of course. There you go. Well, by the way, the reason they had no tradable first was because they traded. So they were cutting payroll last year. So in the transaction they made, so Cam Johnson makes $23 million this year.

Okay. And that's that, you know, that's a factor that what, you know, that's essentially what probably is slightly less, probably slightly more than Watson, but essentially that's the same salary slot. But Michael Porter Jr., who they traded for Cam Johnson, he makes $40 million this year. Yeah. And the differential in those two salaries was one of the reasons, one of the primary reasons, that Denver included a first-round pick to Brooklyn as part of that deal. So, you know, that was a factor.

Yeah, and it's tough when you are a team that should be contending, wants to be contending, and you're having to give a pick to get off money. By the way, speaking of Yokic, As we speak, Yokic is playing friendly with the Serbia national team in Belgrade against team France. That's a pretty high-profile friendly. Yeah. So the windows in here coming up in a week or so, the windows to qualify for the World Cup next summer in Qatar are happening. And so some high-profile players are playing for their teams because it's hard to qualify out of Europe.

And I was talking to a scout who was at the game. And Rudy Gaubert is playing and alongside Victor. And Victor was, by the way, named French national team captain. Captain. Which isn't a surprise, but, you know, there's some older guys on that. Like, Evan Fournier is on the team. And, you know, there's some guys who have won real medals and real stuff for the French. But...

Wembe's won a real medal for the French. Silver, that's right. By the way, so anyway, I was talking to a scout. And he told me, not that this should be a surprise, McMahon, but he told me that Rudy Gobert looks in spectacular condition. I mean, Rudy, one thing, you can criticize them all you want. One thing the guy does is keeps himself in phenomenal shape. Yeah.

It's actually half-time. Also, the scout that I'm texting with told me that Yokic was in good shape as well. And it's a one-point game at half. I'd like that. Hey, Joker better be in good shape because he's playing 47 minutes a game. Yeah. Actually, the one rotation player they brought in this year is Marvin Bagley, the third, who, you know, he can score off the bench, but he's a journey man. Listen, the calves need another big man, and Kevin Love is out there, and that's a guy to keep an eye on for Cleveland.

I think the cows would love to have Marvin Bagley. So they should have tried to get him in that deal. Real quick, on the wolves, as an aside. watch the wolves in the next couple days because now that some of these well here's the thing I went there's been some reporting I don't know who to give credit to but I think there's a possibility of Demarder Rosen

signing with the Nuggets. Yeah, Haynes, Haynes was about Chris Haynes. I saw that. Now that this is happening, some other things are falling into place. So my favorite topic, Jonathan Cumminga. I mean, the wolves, listen, If he's going to play for the minimum,

and he absolutely should go to Minnesota because he can walk into probably a starting job at the four. Right. So it's still open. There's still a window there, Dave, for the Lakers to do a comminga sign and trade using Jaden Hardy. But my thing on the whole Jonathan Cummega sign and trade thing is it for the Hawks to do a sign and trade,

they're going to probably end up in the tax, unless you can ship someone to a third team who has to be paid. And I've just been very doubtful that unless the hawks are in love with the situation that they're going to end up, you know, signing and trading comminga. The other thing with Cumminga is a sign and trade has to be three years. It doesn't have to be fully guaranteed, but it can't be player options. It'll be team options. And so if Cominga can't get a contract number that he likes in the first year,

even if it's more money, this is one thing that Lakers fans, you know, The Lakers fans have been sort of putting Cominga on their team in their head. And look, maybe it does get done. But Cuminga, he doesn't, he wouldn't control his contract. And that first year salary, even if it's higher, would be less than he thinks his value is right or wrong. So if the Timberwolves, now that these other doors are closing, if the Timberwolves can close that deal, McMahon and land Jonathan Cumminga, that would be not that, you know, you guys know how I feel about to Cumminga. I think he's a highly talented flawed player. Are you representing Kaminga now?

If Kaminga ends up... You might as well shout out his agent now, too, because we've already gone through the roster of everybody else. Yeah. I don't know if you want to be shouted out right now. Like I said, I am inviting scorn, and I don't even have to invite it with Dave.

Dave will just give it, will just dole it out. I am inviting scorn, talk abouting the agenting. I agree, but this is, you know, my job is to watch the league and talk about it. I'm seeing agenting. Can I ask you a question, Brian? Am I interrupting you?

Okay. So for Cominga, obviously this decision will bring forth a salary for 26, 27. But to me, it's more about the next five years beyond that, right? What he's going to be in this league? In order to achieve that, what does he need? Opportunity. Opportunity touches, right? He won it out of Golden State because there weren't enough touches.

The Lakers willingly let- The whole changed every other day. Sure, but that was a big part of it, was not getting the touches. The Lakers, part of ways with LeBron James, and part of that equation was, well, now the ball is, it's clearly through Luca Dantage. Is that the best situation for him to then set up himself for the next five years? I don't know. I feel like it could be a similar situation where he finds himself as where's the opportunity. Well, and again, in Minnesota, there is a clear void at the four that you can slide him into the starting lineup between Jane McDaniels and Rudy Gaubert with Lamello Ball and Ant in the back court.

And it's a pretty defined, like, hey, we need you in this role. And if you're going to sign a prove-it contract, which it would have to be, obviously, then, okay, let me prove myself as a guy who's going to be playing 30-plus minutes per game, you know, for a team that it's probably. we're going to play fast and, you know, be a fun team, be a team that's going to be a playoff team. And the role when it's not as clear with the Lakers, Luke is more ball dominant than an aunt or lamello. But more so, it's just like, you know, they sign Mamu and, you know, it's just a little bit more crowded. So, again, I just, you know, I'm not the highest guy in the world on Camingo, but if Minnesota can get him for the minimum, I think that's a deal that makes sense for both sides. When you talk about, I had an agent tell me something very funny. I would never quote him.

The thing about it is, is that it's very, it can be dangerous for a player whenever he takes the minimum, because he sends the salary, or even if it's not the minimum of it, it's vastly below his market, because it ends up being sort of a hole you have to dig yourself out of. And so you hear agents say, I can't let my player take the minimum, you know, even if it makes sense. So that's something that Kaminga's got to do. But I was talking to this agent, and he was saying this. He's like, you've got to be careful taking the minimum, especially if you're in your 20s. And I was like, well, you know, there are examples of players who have taken the minimum when their market has been low and then they've rebuilt their value.

I'll give you a recent example, which is Kelly Ubre. I thought you're going to say Gary Trent Jr. Well, that's what the guy said. The guy, the age, you jump the thing. He's like, yeah, look at Gary Trent. Which, where is that? On the NBA's investigation. I told you.

I don't have to pay the contract. No, I know, but, well, I know it's funny. But I'm saying on the NBA's process of, you know, they're investigating Kauai. They're trying to deal with, you know, the Laker situation, we'll talk about in a second. They're doing with trying to do expansion. They're trying to do it. They're trying to do it. Trying to do NBA Europe.

you know, the Kauai trade, like, you know, if Hawaii gets traded or whatever, that, I mean, that's all part of aspiration. Where is the Gary Trent? Like, you know, where's the Gary Trent investigation? They're mad that you were talking about it because they're hoping people forget it. Because they're like, look, the bucks are on TV for like,

I think the bucks on TV for the first half of a game in February, and that's it. You know what? You know, it was fascinating. And, I mean, look, like, it is what it is. But when the TV deal market, when the TV schedule came out, that Zion Williamson and Pelicans only had two games, you know, not long. One, you can't count on them being on the floor.

No, I know. I'm just, they're not criticizing it. I'm just saying. You know, when Zion's on the floor, he's still exciting, but you can't bank on him being there. And there's, you know, like, there's just not a buzz from him has been gone for a long time. Hey, can we go back a little bit, though? can we discuss the potential fit of DeRosen with the Nuggets? Because I think it's honestly pretty clunky.

Well, the Nuggets need space. And by the way, this is a classic case. You know, DeRosen is, you know, going to be moving into a minimum zone. But anyway, go ahead. In his late 30s. And he'd be moving into a benchwell for the first time in his career, which honestly is the role that I thought would be best suited him for a while. But he would, you know, he decided he wanted to be.

be a number one or number two option. And I get it, like, they need bench scoring. They need a guy who can prop up the offense and give it some kind of life in the 14 minutes or so that Joker's sitting. But I don't think you can play DeRosen with Joker because DeRosen needs the ball. He doesn't space it.

He's not a cutter. He doesn't do any of the things you need to really thrive off of Joker. And then that duo defensively stinks worse. and morning breath after a 12 pack of Coors light. Like, my God. So I'm just saying, like, I get it. Like, it's not exactly, there's not just a ton of guys sitting out on the market,

but like the idea that DeRosen would salvage the summer for the nuggets, I don't think so, man. Well, I don't think it would salvage it. But, you know, I would be interested to watch the two-man game because they're both very very, very effective, you know. One thing about DeRosen, he moves well off the ball and he gets to the line. Doesn't he well off the ball?

I don't know. I mean, he loves getting to that kind of mid-range, mid-post area and operate out there. And a lot of times the Nuggets run their offense through. He doesn't move all off the ball like he's J.J. Rediker, Rip Hamilton. I mean, he's not running floppy. But I'm just saying, like Dave said, he, you know, he will position. You know, he gets into position.

Yeah. Off to dribble. Well, okay. So, well, let me just say this. I don't want to gloss over the clippers. Yeah. Because while the clippers are dealing with a bunch of other things, I think it was nice business to get Max Drews for a second round pick.

So they, you know, they traded Collins, senior moment, John Collins to the Pistons, which was a whole other move that I The Pistons not signed Tobias Harris and taking on John Collins. I don't know. Anyway, they got a $17 million trade exception for that. And they took on Johnny Broome in a deal to move off to help. Contamia to Skullwell Pope end up with the Sixers.

Right. So they did a roster spot move for the Sixers. So they take that second round pick that they just got for taking a roster spot and the trade exception for John Collins. And then they use that to acquire Max Truce. look, the clippers have other challenges. And they were actually at one time this year deemed a possible spot for Peyton Watson. So they don't get Peyton Watson, but they get in Struz, you know, he's 30 years old, still very much in his prime.

And, you know, would be in a contract year and we'll compete at both ends. I actually thought it was, I had one executive telling me the team that I like business the most out of this was the Clippers. Yeah, I mean, he's a solid, he's a solid rotation player. You know, hopefully he can be healthy this year. Solid rotation player for a team that there's no benefit in the clippers being bad. Guess who owns their pick this year? I heard. But, you know, and they took an actual trade exception and turned it into, you know, a guy who might be a human trade exception.

He's an expiring contract or there could be value in that, you know, as the trade deadline approaches. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the Lakers. Dave, you've done a lot of reporting. You should be taking it easy in August. I feel bad for you. I appreciate that, the sentiment. So there's a lot out there right now.

I want to slice, there's three different things with the Lakers right now. One is the fact, obviously, that Josh Kushner and Bob Eiger are in the process of buying majority control. of the team. Okay. That is unaffected by parts two and three that we are going to discuss here in a second. And that is what is most important for the NBA and the Lakers organization, is that there is going to be a change in controlling owner. I honestly don't fully understand what the contractual obligation of keeping Jeannie Bus as the governor is. But the one thing I know about the NBA is that there's one controlling owner. Now, those, you can come to an agreement that there's a rotation or whatever,

but there's one controlling owner. And my understanding is that's going to be Josh Kushner. Josh Kushner is going to be the controlling owner. Now, Bob Iger's, is that contrary to anything that you've heard, Dave? Josh Kushner lives in Miami, works in New York, has a place in Malibu. as one does. Bob Baggers's private residence is in Brentwood.

No, I mean, I'm not saying Bob Baker won't be in the office. Kushner will have the largest financial state. He'll have the largest share. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, of course I've heard that. I don't we're talking more. Yeah, here's a thing.

Like, no matter what anybody wants to say, no better what anybody wants to announce, like Mark Cuban announced, when he was selling the Mavericks. One of the immutable rules of the NBA is one individual is ultimately the face of the team. Whether or not they want to be the day-to-day operations person, whether or not they want to be the public face of the team or whatever.

But that individual typically is the person who has the most money. It's not always a person has the most money in. The buck stops with one person ultimately. And regardless of what happens with the bus family, Mark Walter owns 73% of the Lakers, is that right? or something like that. I think it's slightly higher than that, yeah. Okay, but that share is on process to transfer to Kushner and Iger's group.

And that's, you know, assuming no hiccups, that's going to happen. Okay, that's silo one, all right? And how they had decided to move forward with the Lakers is a big giant story in the NBA and will be something we watch very closely. Now, Dave, part two, which is the bus family drama, which I know is a couple of days old now. but you have done a lot of reporting on this and have lived it for decades. I have some things I want to say, but I'll wait for you to follow you.

Well, I love this line that someone told me yesterday. It was if somehow Jeannie Bus gets through this current fiasco and still remains the acting governor, Adam Streisand deserves the next statue outside of Crypto.com or radio. in Star Plaza because this is mired in muck and red tape and quite frankly the logical side of things when you consider that in 2025 when the bus family agreed to sell their stake to Walter, sources tell me there was a provision agreed to by all the siblings called a tag-along provision. Basically, if Walter sells at any point, we can roll in our shares to, to that sale at the new valuation.

Now, of course, Jeannie Bus or any other siblings could have foresaw that it only being a 10-month ownership period for Mark Walter. But that's what it turned out to be. Genie Bus's lawyer, Streisand, is contending that back in 2017, when there was another round of family drama, it was determined by the court that if the bus siblings were to sell at any point, three trustees out of the six would have to sign off on it. Janie Bus, who used to run the Lakers Youth Foundation,

Joey Bus, who was instrumental with the Lakers G-League team over the years, and Jeannie would be the three trustees. However, in the eight years since that court agreement, not only did they agree to the tag-along provision, but Jeannie Bus has ousted two of those trustees from the organization in Jeannie and Joey. Shake them right in the back. So if this ever goes in front of a judge,

the judge would have all this information to consider and weigh and meet out. And at the end of the day, it still seems somewhat implausible to me that the conclusion wouldn't be that 5-6, the vast majority wants to sell this thing. And I'm not going to be the judge just step in front of that sale.

We also are not legal specialists. Right. Well, certainly not. And look, the legal argument, like, I went to college for eight years, but I sure is hell you know, lawyer. I don't like, whatever, man. But just the common sense argument here, like, I thought the statement that, uh, that Shams got from the bus five, which is going to be the most, like, remember the Hamptons five?

Now we've got the bus five. The bus five. Yeah. But the bus five statement ended with, it is time to use this opportunity to move on. and exit gracefully while we still can. Now, you can argue whether they still can, but it is damn sure time to move on. Well, that's one thing that Jeannie has going to have to weigh here

about whether what she wants her role to be going forward. And that's something that's a conversation that can be with Bob Eiger and Josh Kushner too as well. The NBA Succession Show needs to end. We need the show's finale. What's amazing is there's been two shows about the bus family in the last five years, the HBO show, and then the Netflix show, which is the big of the genie bus story, and neither of them are going to be the best one,

which is going to be about this. But let me ask you this. If you're Josh Kushner and Bob Iger, I know Iger said, you know, basically, oh, yeah, we welcome, Gene. Love it. But he left a pretty wide little lane of wiggle room with less things, change, why would they want her still there? I just, just a mess. Here's the thing.

At the end of the day, this is very basic, but very important. The difference between a year ago and now is that a year ago, the bus family was the majority shareholder. And now they're not. Okay. The deal that Mark Walter made with the bus families with Jeannie, he had to make that deal because they were the ones deciding the control share. That's right. Now they are not. Okay, so one of the immutable facts I talked about with, with the, you know, MBA ownership is there's one control owner.

Another immutable facts is if you're a minority owner, you are just that. You are to be seen and not heard. Now, Jeannie worked out this deal and it was an incredible deal for her, but at the end of the day, if you are a minority shareholder, you get good tickets. And that's just the truth, okay? So I have, I know a guy who is a very small owner of an NBA team. It's a sliver of a team. And he will call me and ask me, or I shouldn't say he doesn't have my number. He will message me and ask me what his team is doing because he's 100% completely in the dark.

Mark Cuban? Well, to this day, I don't understand, you know, Mark Cuban, who's one of the most forward thinkers in the league for the last 20 years, how he was, how his viewpoint of that was so wild. Brian also said he's a small owner. Mark's probably like six feet tall. So, it's got to be. Anyway. But like, so let me ask you this. Hold on.

Okay, go on. So that's one thing. Is it, is it, this is now a, it's a significant share of the team. You know, 18% of the Lakers is, is a ton of money. Yeah, divided by six is like 330 some on million apiece. Right. Okay. Secondly, Adam Streisand, her attorney, is an excellent attorney. I do not want to ever go against him in a court of law. He has successfully argued for Jeannie in the past and his interpretation of their family trust, which he is obviously an expert in, has delivered a winning argument. Okay. And his interpretation of this, and I'm not going to get into the chapter and verse of it because I'm not an expert, but his interpretation of this might end up being correct in front of a judge and they may win. But here's what I know. Okay. Actions over words. What I know is this. When it came time to sell the Lakers to Mark Walter's group, it wasn't Jeannie Bus who made the decision. She had to get a vote. Okay. And here's time to sell it again. It's not going to, well, I'm not going to. Five dollars one is pretty tough numbers.

Right. But last year, she made this maneuver with her brothers, which broke some of her family's hearts and ruined. Baxter Holmes did a story about all this that was excellent, I think, back in January or February. But she had to have the votes a year ago to sell. Okay. if the vote was needed a year ago to sell, why would the vote not be needed now? But I'm going to step out of that minutia

and just say that this is a fight over 18% of the Lakers. The other 70-some percent, which is the control share, is going to move on. And even though Jeannie was the governor, Jeannie was not deciding, you know, whether to sign LeBron James or not. I mean, she may have been in the room, but that was being decided, you know, by Mark Walter.

So I think those are, you have any problem with what I just said, either of you? You think I'm off? No, I, that all tracks. All right. The third slice of this is Mark Walter's personal situation, which doesn't really matter that much to the NBA anymore because he's about to exit. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing.

But it is a problematic situation as you look. And there's a whole bunch of, so he was, he has been under investigation for almost a year. And it became public that he was under investigation about six-ish weeks ago, maybe eight, I'm not sure, sometime this summer. In July, yeah. And once that happened, a whole bunch of media and also like people who have their own, you know, just like in basketball, where there's a bunch of people like us who are reporters who have, you know, do video podcasts. or whatever, or people on Substack, all those people descended onto all the legal filings of all of Mark Walters insurance companies. And every day, there is more and more stuff coming out about the

financial engineering that is going on. I remember when I was a teenager, my dad was a middle manager at a really big company. And I had a friend who went to the Ivy League when went to an Ivy League school. And when I was like 19 or 20 years old, I came home and my friend came and my friend came and my My dad was sitting there and he goes, hey, what are you studying there? And he goes, I'm studying financial engineering. This was in 1998, okay. I'm studying financial engineering. Oh, okay, cool.

And he leaves. And my dad goes, you know, my dad was, you know, in his mid-40s, you know. And he's like, financial engineering. Like the engineers sit at this side of the company and the financial guys sit at that side of the company. They don't talk to each other. You know, we were going into a new era with, you know, financial engineering. And if you, if you spend any time reading about Mark Walter stuff, this is just one giant piece of financial engineering. But I do have...

Or some might call it a shell game. Some might call a shell game, Brian. Yeah, okay. Well, that. Yes, but it's financial engineering. That's a nice way to put it. All right. So, here's my story time.

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When did it actually close? It was October 2025. Okay. So I started talking and writing about how Abu Dhabi, Mudabala, which is the sovereign wealth fund of Abu Dhabi. And you guys know I've been to Abu Dhabi a number of times developed relationships in some of their government offices and have written. and reported a lot about their investments in American sports and the NBA. Abu Dhabi had given $10 billion, committed $10 billion to Mark Walters' fund, which is called TWC Global.

TWG Global, I'm sorry. And not only that, but like Abu Dhabi, as you can imagine, being, you know, and now they're in the middle of dealing with the conflict in the Middle East, which is a whole, their whole situation has changed. But when they make an investment in something, they, you know, they often set the terms because of how much money they have. And they did something when they made their partnership with Mark Walter that was very unusual. They were investing $10 billion in Mark Walter's company. And they were allowing Mark Walter to, in return, buy a percentage of their sovereign wealth fund.

This had only happened one other time. But the point of all of that is that they believed so much in him that this, you know, super elite financial operation said, not only do we want to invest in you, we want you to be our partner in our operation. So just a year ago or a year and a half ago, the respect level that Mark Walter had was immense. But here's the story that comes to this is what I'm going to tell. I was talking about this investment that Abu Dhabi made in Mark Walters Fund, and then Mark Walter's fund then buying the Lakers. And I got a call from someone attached to Mark Walter.

And they said, please stop connecting Abu Dhabi with Mark Walter's purchase of the Lakers. And I said, why? Abu Dhabi gave $10 billion. And then a couple of months later, that same fund, TWG bought the Lakers. That's probably a coincidence like Balmer giving all that money to ask for you. Hey, listen, if I'm wrong, I want to be correct. You know, I said why? And this person said, because

Mark Walter bought the Lakers with his own money. And I said, okay, I said, please don't take offense to this. Because, you know, it was bought for a $10 billion evaluation. But it wasn't really actually $10 billion.

First off, he and his group 75% versus... Right, not even that, because he and his group already owned 27%. That's right. They were buying about 50%. So they needed like $5 to $6 billion. And I said, please don't take offense to what I'm about to say. Did Mark Walter personally have $6 billion?

Because I knew that he ran an insurance company that had billions under management, but that doesn't mean you know, you have the money yourself. and I kind of got laughed at. And yes, absolutely, of course. And so I was just saying, like, the common sense is where did that? I was just like, well, so by the way, I stopped saying it. I was like, okay, if I was wrong, I won't, even though it was public information that Abu Dhabi invested in. And then when the Lakers sale was announced publicly, it said TWG.

It was like right there. I was like, all right, okay, I won't connect him anymore. But I didn't understand how he would have that kind of money. If he already owned the Dodgers and he already owned Chelsea and he already owned the Sparks and he already had this, he would also have that much money. It just didn't make sense to me. And so anyway, I would just say that this whole thing is one giant, is one giant financial quagmire. Right.

Have you called that guy back in the last two weeks? I would be relishing that phone call. Hey, let's talk about that. I'm not sure. I still am not sure what's true. I just know that, you know, like I'm, like I know like what Warren Buffett says. By the way,

Warren Buffett has bought and invested in a lot of insurance companies. And he would say that insurance, insurance is profitable, but it's not the kind of profitable that would allow you to be buying all these sports teams. But I know one thing that's true. The sooner they can get Mark Walter and Gene. bus the hell out of the building, the better.

Well, anyway. The lesson here, though, sorry, I hope I'm not stepping on your final point, your grand finale, Brian. But the lesson here is that the league needs to do a better job of vetting all of these major partners that are coming into it, whether that be a team sponsorship from aspiration with the Clippers, whether that be the Board of Governors voting on Mark Walters' acquisition of the prize franchise, the crown jewel of your league because, hey, guess what? The Wall Street Journal reported that in September of last year, 2025, Mark Walter had devices seized from him as part of the Fed's investigation. In October, the NBA board of governor said, yep, put the red stamp

on it. He's new the lake, new Lakers owner. I think the NBA needs more resources in their vetting process. But let me just say this. Let me just say this. Abu Dhabi doesn't mess around. And Abu Dhabi invested with him and they didn't know. Yeah. So. And here's the other thing I'm going to say. Here's the other thing I'm going to say.

Again, assume this is reported by the Wall Street Journal. I assume this is correct. They didn't find out about this, you know, potential, you know, financial engineering issues because, like, they did it with an investigation. It was a whistleblower. somebody came to them and said, hey, this is going on. So, like, I think there's only so much the NBA can do. What Mark Walter did was he said, here's my account with $6 billion in it. There it is right there.

And the NBA is like, is this actual money from $6 billion? Yes. And the NBA is like, okay, he's got the money. He also owns the Dodgers and owns Chelsea, which means Major League Baseball approved him. And, you know, they're approved with the soccer, international soccer, bodies and he's got the money in Abu Dhabi invested with him. Like, you know, some of this becomes self-perpetuate. And by the way, he might not have done anything illegal.

This may just be risky. He's being investigated by doing something illegal. But I think the point is this. If you see something that doesn't quite make sense, you know, and this is, again, what Warren Buffett says, if you see something that you don't understand, just stay away from it. Even if somebody else is making money on it or whatever, if you don't understand, you don't understand. I didn't understand how Mark Walter.

had the money to personally buy the Lakers. It didn't make sense to me. I didn't have the subpoena power or the financial engineering doctorate from Princeton to totally understand what it was going on. But it didn't make sense to me that he had the money personally to buy the Lakers. It didn't make sense to me.

So make of that what you will. If you want to call me inadequate, that's fine. But it wouldn't be the first. But Dave, so the crazy thing here is is that the Lakers were in the middle, of this makeover for their team. They, you know, the entire business operation has been, has been turned over. You know, there are people, you know, I know of, of, of one guy who was a front office guy who was in the middle of leaving one team to go to the Lakers.

And now of a sudden they're in a hiring freeze. And it's like, well, who's going to be in charge, you know? Is Paul? I don't know. Like, these are the questions and obviously the on-court product is relatively locked in obviously we talked about comminga who knows if that happens but they have they 16 guys on their roster the team's mostly going to look like what's going to look like for next season but when you are trying to contend and trying to add an 18th banner you're going to have to win around the margins and part of their intention going into this offseason was to use mark walters resources and put it totally towards other ways that they can enhance the program. And, you know, Rob Polinka stated he wanted to hire two assistant general managers.

He was only able to bring in one. The other spot remains vacant, as you just said, a hiring freeze. We're going to see. I haven't been in the Lakers practice facility in months. I know they just unveiled new practice courts that they showed on social media. But part of the idea of the G-League team moving to Palm Desert was to use the space that the G-League team occupied and turned it into advanced training equipment

and medical equipment that the players could use on a daily basis. I don't know where that stands. These are the type of things that, while we wait for the sale to be completed with Iger and Krishner, could be put on pause. And, you know, when you're Luca Donchich and you made the NBA finals with the Mavericks

and now it's two straight years without getting back to that perch and wanting to have every available advantage at your fingertips to try to get back there when you have someone like Shade Gilloo's Alexander, who's now lapped you with the championship in two league MVP's. We'll see how patience he's going to be with this process. And look, just like Joker can profess his loyalty to the Nuggets, there's still going to be teams that are positioned themselves

and monitoring that and all that kind of thing. Same thing with Luca. He's done nothing but express. optimism and excitement about the Lakers since he signed that extension. But it's not that long term of an extension. And you better believe there's teams around the lead that are looking at that situation saying,

hey, if this thing goes sideways, we'd sure like to get Luka midway through his prime. Well, we'll say this. And if you're Luka, betting on the brand is pretty safe, which is why the Lakers sold for even more money and they sold for a year ago. And chances are if they sold

again in the year they'd sell for even, you know, even more because you're betting on the brand. Well, and the brand is so strong that despite pretty constant mismanagement through Jeannie Buss's reign, they've managed to win a championship because the brand's so strong that LeBron James decided he wanted to come there and 84's to trade there. Like, you know, there's advantages to being the most glamorous franchise in basketball located in sunny Southern California. One thing, Dave, you had a story that came out this week that is because you mentioned tag along rights. The concept of the reason you'd have a tag along right would be if you're a minority owner of a team and the team control sales, you want to be able to have the right to sell

your shares at the same time. Because if you're buying a controlling piece of a team, you're going to pay more for it. If you're buying a piece of a team that only doesn't give you control at all, you're probably going to pay less, you know, if the Lakers controlling share sold for a $12 billion valuation. And, you know, the bus family keeps their 18% and they sell in a year. You know, that would be very valuable, but I don't think they could get $12 billion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they could get. The whole reason to have a tag along right is so that you can, if you're a minority owner,

it gives you an off ramp to join the highest sale possible. So that's one of the reasons why the bus family, other than to nail Jeannie for, you know, for firing all of them. I was going to say, especially for a minority owner who was fired and kicked out of the building. Yeah, like one of the reasons you want to tag along rights is the ability to maximize your value for your share. I assume Patrick Shunshong, who is the Lakers minority shareholder who you wrote a story about this week, had tag along rights, but he's you, he's passing. You wrote about that this week. Yeah, he's passing.

And it's significant one in just the sense of understanding what the entire scope of the ownership, will look like whenever the Iger and Kushner sale is ratified by the board of governors. But it is also significant because the athletic is reporting that if Jeannie Bus loses her legal battle and all of her siblings are free to sell their shares off and she's left with just under 3%. The athletics reporting that she is interested in buying back 12% of the team, somewhere to be able to hold 15% is what is a requirement to be the acting governor, which was her intention to do it for five years at a minimum at time of the Walter sale. So we've already ticked off one of those five years.

Well, guess what? That's 4% that is unavailable to her. Patrick Sunshiang's not selling. Ed Roski, Jr., has 3% out there, and then everything that's left will be under Eiger and Kushner's jurisdiction. And I don't really see the motivation for them to sell back 12% to Chigeebuss. Well, I mean, in theory, if she had a better relationship with their siblings, she could buy them out. Good luck.

Sure. Three of them had a job a year ago, and now they don't. Double the price, and I'll think about it. All right. Well, that's a lot of financial engineering for us. basketball podcast. So on that note, thank you very much, Dave. He needs a good agent. Your friend must be pretty damn smart if he's the one out of you two to go to Ivy League school. I feel like you could have, you could have fit an Ivy League tip. Wow, what a, what an incredible. Is he trying to like butter me up for something?

There's some sort of ass to come here. I went to Ken State University, which is the Harvard of Portage County, Ohio. There we go. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much, Dave. Thank you very much, McMahon. Thank you to our producers. Tucker and Jackson, of course, is back with us after he went to another wedding over the weekend. All this guy does is go to weddings. Swear to God. Who knew he had so many friends? Seriously. All right.

Thank you for listening and watching to The Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week. Adios mingos. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, joined thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Wall. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer.

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