Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Celtics BIG WIN over Lakers. The OKC Thunder dominate the WEST. Injury Updates on LeBron and Brunson

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps and Dave McMenamin discuss the Celtics victory over the Lakers on Saturday Night. Plus the dominating victory of the Oklahoma City Thunder over the Denver Nuggets.  The Collective give us an update on Lebron James and Jalen Brunson's injury. Plus the “hottest” topic in the NBA: The meeting between Larry David and Dave McMenamin.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday afternoon, joining us from Philadelphia, where he's at the Wells Fargo Center,

where the Sixers are playing the Jazz. One of the biggest games at the NBA calendar is Tim Bottoms. I might have been at the most exciting and relevant game of the regular season on Saturday night with our guy Mac 10, and our guy, the machine, Kevin Pelton. And I might be at game 1280 of 80 today. The room that you're in at the Wells Fargo Center, which is a very nondescript room, is a perfect symbol for the 76. I had to do a lot of work to find a room for the pod because the flyers are playing this afternoon,

and a lot of the rooms in the center were booked. I see. We found one, though, eventually. Well, here's a guy who's, I'm sure, rooted for the flyers growing up, Philadelphia Native, joining us from New York today, where he is with. the Los Angeles Lakers, our Lakers man, Dave McMillian. Happy to be here with you both. And I didn't really root for the pliers because they were always the team with the ridiculous payroll.

Lindrosse and Leclair and Brindamore, but they were the team with the crazy payroll that always failed. And I rooted for like the underdog teams in Philadelphia that failed anyway. But they didn't fail because of money. The flyers failed. They had the most expensive roster, but couldn't do anything. The most Philadelphia take ever. I rooted against a team for this reason, even though it was in my hometown. I don't see you.

I don't know very relatable either. Well, I don't know anything about it. To be honest with you, I don't know anything about it. I can't. The guy does have a Phillies hat on today. He does. It's a good looking Phillies hat. Over-enceivers, the 93 Phillies.

Under-inchevers, the Flyers. The Flyers. The Phillies spend no money on their game, I don't think. I was going to say, I think Bryce Harper makes me. I live in Los Angeles now. I've changed my standards back in the day when I was a kid, you know. All right. Well, we had a high standard.

Did you like that? How about that guys? We had a high standard. It was pretty good. On Saturday night. And halfway through the fourth quarter, I thought we were going to get it. Luca was in the game, making the run. The Celtics were doing the thing that they do,

which is they play brilliantly and then they take their foot off the gas. And they were in the process of having a very Celtics game. And then midway through the fourth quarter, LeBron pulled up lame, Dave. And it was still a very interesting game. We're going to talk about it. We learned some things from it. But now one of the biggest questions in the NBA is the severity and what sort of lingering effects LeBron's leg injury is going to have.

So I saw what you reported yesterday, Who knows what you may know by the time this podcast runs. But LeBron having a groin injury is obviously concerning. It's going to be something that they're going to have to manage. Right. It was a big blow. And you knew that it was somewhat serious when he goes to the back and doesn't come back and go into the game because, as he told us postgame,

he lives for moments like that. A four-point game at Boston Garden, you can count on one hand how many games he has left in that building in his career. You know, maybe if there's some finals matchups, it's going to require more than one hand. But this is the precious commodity to be in that situation. And the injury kept them out of things. And I'm reporting that it's going to be most likely multiple weeks.

He's going to let that kind of injury calm down a bit. And then there's going to be some further evaluation to get a full extent of the severity of the strain, but it's a tough moment because Rui Hachamor is out for at least another week, as JJ Redick told us on Saturday. Jackson Hayes, they hope to get back on this current road trip, but obviously he's dealing with knee sort of. And Luca is a little banged up himself from a fall that he took in the New York game, and he was wincing as he was working his back out against the Celtics.

So they are not in a great place health-wise. It's a good thing they did all this work up to this moment to surge up the Western Conference standings. They still won 20 of their last 25 games, even with this loss to the Celtics. But now it's a different math that we're talking about for the remainder of the season. It's about what you can do to perhaps still host a first-round playoff series while the biggest priority is having LeBron James Wright for the start of the postseason. Yeah, this is the nature of the NBA, specifically the Western Conference right now.

It's just fragile. So, you know, they're absolutely flying high. They look great. Jackson Hayes going down really affected them, you know, especially with Rehachem are out. You know, when you watch this game, we'll talk to you about this in a second bond temp. But you watch this game,

even though Chris Saps Porzingis didn't play for the Celtics, you could very clearly tell the Celtics game plan was to take advantage of the Lakers' last. of size in the interior. I mean, LeBron was playing center for big stretches of the game. Luca was playing center at times out there. And so now that they're just really, just frankly, they're just really thin with big bodies. I felt that they lost the game because of their lack of offense, despite how they were able to, the Celtics were able to take advantage of mismatches. It wasn't like the Lakers got cooked on defense. Jason Tatum was great. He had

40 points. But I just, they couldn't, they couldn't generate, generate enough points. And so that's going to be on Lucas shoulders. Maybe Lucas swore back a little bit because he's going to have to just score. Bontemp's, what did we learn from this matchup? What do you take away from how that game, that 10 point win for the Celtics played out? I mean, you know, certainly I think watching the game, you know, like you said, we saw the Celtics again get a 20-point lead against one of the other five best teams in the league. They've done that against the calves, the nuggets, the Knicks, and now the Lakers, and they have the thunder coming in the other one of the top six teams in the league on Wednesday to the gardens. We'll see how it goes in that game. So I thought more or less we saw the Celtics

be who they've been all season. I do think from the Lakers side, you know, seeing them in person for the first time since the trade, JJ Reddick deserves a ton of credit for how hard he has these guys playing defensively. Like they don't, like we've talked about, they don't have a lot of, you know, necessarily, they don't have an overwhelming, a lot of defensive talent, especially when they're going to try to have, you know, the combination of Luca and Austin Reeves and LeBron all out there at the same time. The LeBron's been really engaged at that end of the court. But you saw in this game, to me, the thing that's allowed them to be so good defensively is that they've been playing so hard and with so much energy and flying around and,

you know, really being committed to the scheme that J.J. wants them to play. And I think as you saw this game go on, you saw the Lakers get a little heavy-legged in the second half, being down a couple of guys having to play. I thought LeBron looked tired even before the groin injury. I thought he, I thought he looked. Yeah. There was one point we looked up in four of the five Lakers on the court. This was early in the fourth quarter, all had their arms at their sides, like, holding

themselves in the position that were they were gassed. And the Lakers have done a good job in transition over the past few weeks, and the Celtics got out in transition a bunch in this game as it went along, too. But, you know, you did see the wear and tear on the Lakers as the game went on. And yes, they're obviously down Jackson, Hayes and Rui. And having two of your top seven guys not playing, you're going to feel it from an energy standpoint. But I do think we saw a little bit of the challenges that they're going to have when they're playing in a seven-game series against higher-level teams because they're going to have to play

at that kind of frenetic pace to really be able to hang, I think, defensively. And, you know, we'll see if LeBron can hold up. I mean, it's remarkable. We're talking about a guy in his age 40 season. He'd missed four games. Like, you know, it's impressive he'd made it this far without any kind of muscle injury. And certainly, hopefully, this is on the shorter end of the timeline because it's been great to watch these guys play.

But, you know, there are, I think one loss ahead of Denver, two ahead of Memphis and three ahead of Houston. And, you know, those four teams are going to be jockeying for position over the next couple of weeks. And we'll see where that lands. But like I said, I thought the Lakers defense was impressive and their energy level was impressive. And as you mentioned, as the game went on, there's a lot of shots that have to be made by guys who are not necessarily reliable three-point shooters. those shots went in in the first half. They didn't, especially in the third quarter. And that ultimately was the difference in the game.

Yeah, Dave, in your reporting, you, of course, you had to mention the fact that LeBron had that groin injury like five, six years ago, that Christmas Day game. I think the late, where the Lakers, I know we repeated that stat like a hundred times because weren't they like famously in second place in the West? I think they were fourth. They were fourth. Oh, they were fourth.

Okay. LeBron was going across the lane on defense. He took a funny step and basically the Lakers season was never the same. They ended up missing the playoffs. He came back and then shut it back down. That was a groinjury. It was the first time he'd ever really had a significant muscle injury in his career. It was sort of an indication that his late 30s or his mid-30s, I guess, it arrived when that happened. But you asked him about that or somebody asked him about that. You had it in your reporting what he said comparing the field injuries. Yeah, he said that it did not feel in the moment as severe as that one. That caused him to miss 17th Street games and really compromised the rest of his season and the rest of the Lakers season that they didn't make the playoffs that year. After he said it, though, he turned around and knocked on the wooden locker behind him to not jinx's self-diagnosis. Listen, it wasn't like he was dower and completely upset and frustrated. I think he was presenting kind of a veneer of confidence that we've already proven that this group can do a lot.

We are up for the competition. This is the next challenge that we have to tackle while I take care of my body. And his kind of parting message was, I'm waiting for the moment that we're all whole and we can compete together. And certainly he anticipates that moment coming before it's too late. And so there's still a lot of noise that this team can make. It's just a different pathway than it had been hoping it would be taking. And I guess if you want to go glass half full, this is a brutal stretch of the season coming up. And it could have taxed LeBron in ways other than this groin injury popping up.

And so while he will be rehabbing it, the groin, perhaps it saves some energy in his legs that he can apply to a post-examine. season run. The other thing I should say that we learned about the game was that Al Forfehrford still's got it as a player. That's what you wrote about that. I think zero here. Yeah, I mean, look, it was noteworthy. You knew Joe Missoula was going to try to win this game when Al Horford played 11 minutes in the first quarter. Al Horford had played over 35 minutes in two games this season before Saturday night's game, played 37 minutes, just under the 37 and a half he played against the Cavs a couple weeks ago. Another game, the Celtics, you know, played their guys in, in part because Chris Asperzingis wasn't available like he wasn't last night. But the numbers from

Sats Williams that I wrote about on Al Horford's defense in this game were awfully impressive. He defended 23 isolation plays according to second spectrum, all against Luca Donchich, LeBron James and Austin Reeves, the three perimeter stars for the Lakers, and gave up the second lowest points per play on them, point three nine, in the player tracking era. And the 23 he guarded was the second most anyone's ever guarded in a game in the player tracking era, which goes back to the 2013-14 season, which is an often long time ago. And LeBron James and Luca Donchitz were three for 14 in their 14 shots against Al Horford in this game. And we have seen how Horford, all of us have covered out Horford for a long time. And last night was 18,

season. Well, it's his 18th season. It was his 68th game against LeBron. It's the most, most times any two players currently have played against each other, not surprisingly, given they're both two of the older players in the league and were both in the same conference for most of their careers. But it was remarkable to see Horford doing what he did in that game. And it's a reminder that for all the other talent, the Celtics have, Al Horford's ability to switch and protect the rim on defense and to be a excellent floor spacing three-point shooter on offense really remains one of the very most critical things that makes the Celtics who they are as a team. And despite the fact that the guy is 38 and going to be 39 in the summer,

he is still a gigantic part of their team and was a gigantic part of them winning this game. And, you know, it's a sign of what is still going to be a really big role for him in the spring, whether Chris has Porzingis is healthy or not. Well, that's one of the things, it's one of the reasons why Porzingis's acquisition was so important because two years ago, Horford's last game sort of is the start, not last game, but he was their starting center. He wore down in the playoffs. It got to the point where he basically was only defending.

On offense, he was kind of resting. Maybe he could hit a shot, but like he basically couldn't, you know, he just couldn't, he wasn't effective down the stretch, especially that Miami series where they loss. You just, so being able to be more of a spot contributor and conserve his energy within games, this is one of the reasons why they identified Porzingis as the guy they wanted so bad. And, you know, the trade that they made for Porzingus, just before the director, or because it was just before a free agency in 2023.

You know, the deal was going to be before the draft. The deal fell apart. And then they hurried and re-put it back together and did it with Memphis instead of, who was it was going to be with Washington and ended up it was the same trade it was the same trade they just couldn't trade Marcus they traded Marcus Martin instead of Malcolm Brogden in the deal right they had to get it done before the day before the draft because Chris Staps had a player option and he opted either in or out and signed to do the automobile or exactly but they that ended up being a very important trade in in this current era of the NBA we didn't totally

understand at the time I mean we understood why they were doing it but we didn't really know what the impact would be. But anyway, your point is correct on Horford. He was clearly a major part of that game plan. And that's the thing, Dave. Obviously, you know the Lakers are small. But, okay, so it's one thing to only have Jackson Hayes. When they didn't, when they, when they, when they didn't have Hachemura, like not having Hachemura just takes a tool out of J.J. Reddick's belt. And I agree that they are, I remember the heat teams that LeBron was on in the early teens. They would play a very, very aggressive style of defense. It was one of the reasons Chris Bosch was so important to that team.

They would play Bosch at Center, and he was so mobile. They would ask him to do a lot. They would ask him to really move his backside on defense, and they would trap aggressively. And basically the way to handle that heat defense was to pass your way through it. and the heats basically long-term wager was that you couldn't pass your way through it as much as they could create a problem. That's why they would create all these turnovers.

The Lakers don't play the exact same way, but it's kind of the same concept, which is their athleticism, which is what they have. They don't have great size to defend the rim, but they have athleticism, and their wagers that their athleticism and their transition opportunities are going to cause for it are going to on balance beat you. And by the way, it was working for the heat. It led them to two championships and they were in the finals in the third when they faced arguably the greatest passing team we've ever seen. And the Spurs also were just super hot shooting.

Danny Green was like untouchable for the first like three games of that series. And, you know, but one of the things the Spurs is a slightly different. There's a slightly different level of defensive talent on this Laker team compared to the, prime LeBron. But it wasn't the prime heat. The heat were worn out and the spurs were the perfect team to undercut them. Sure. And so I think the point here is, is if you can pass, you can move the ball, which the Celtics do, you can move the ball.

You can, that's what you got to do against the Lakers. You're going to have to move the ball to beat through athleticism. Now, when they're, when they're thin, Dave, you're going to give up inside interior matchups. times where the late the Celtics were able to get to the rim and there was nobody there to provide to provide there were a couple times there's a close out where they over commit and the Celtics player puts a ball on the floor and now the help defender trying to cut off the lane to the rim is someone like austin reeves or even jared mandorbell who's a very active defender but he doesn't have the size and treysmson's in the third the lakers had been 13 and oh when he played before a saturday

And I get the Celtics, a lot of that was garbage time minutes, but he was actually carving out a bit of a backup center role during that eight game winning streak. But all of a sudden, he's thrust into a bigger role with no Jackson Hayes. He's not as effective. And so they're really going to need to have Jackson and Rui to give them some more size to contend with that stuff. So it's not just all switching dependent where you can some of the success they've had or a lot of the success. they've had since January 30th, when they've been the number one defensive rated team in the league since then, has been defending shots at the rim. And Jackson Hayes is in the top three in terms of opponents' field goal percentage on layups and dunks in that time, under 40%.

So that's a big piece that they're going to need to get back. But it does kind of underscore the rescinded trade. Right. If they had Mark Williams in this game. Right. If they had Mark Williams, and I kind of feel like at the end of the Lakers season, wherever that is, it's going to end up being a relevant question. If they had Mark Williams would have gone this way. I don't know.

I mean, Mark Williams is much more of a skilled offensive center than a skilled defensive center. I know it's big, but, you know, I almost think the way that Jackson Hayes played. Yeah, but there were times where their tallest guy last night on the court was 6.8. I understand that, but I would almost argue that the way. way Jackson Hayes has played is sort of a reminder that investing a lot, which they were going to be doing, investing a lot in a center with both injury questions and developmental questions as a guy like can he actually be the kind of rim protecting force that you want if you're going to invest that kind of capital in them. It's a reminder that if you've got Luca Dachachin, LeBron James,

two of the smartest and highest IQ players ever, and you've got a guy like Jackson Hayes who's been a journeyman player who can, what the one thing he's always been able to do is jump out of the gym. Like, you can probably manufacture a lot of production from the five spot. But the point was they didn't have Jackson Hayes. That's the point. They didn't have Jackson Hayes. That's why you want. I don't mean last night.

No, I don't mean last night. I'm saying in general. Like, yes, last night they didn't have any center. But I'm saying from a broader, like Brian said that the end of the season is going to be a relevant point of whether they had Mark Williams on the team. My point, I guess, is what I'm saying is if you have Luca Donchich in particular, he can boost the level of a center in a way that almost no other player in the league can. And so the Lakers have limited trade resources that go out this summer and use those trade resources to improve the rest of the roster. And they find a couple different centers that can do different things for cheap. I just think that would be a better allocation of resources than pouring them all into one guy who.

who has had trouble staying on the court and is not a guaranteed effective defensive option. That's all a fair point. That's all a fair point. But when they did the Mark Williams rescinded, when they rescinded it, we didn't really know how good they were gonna be. And so ultimately medium term,

what they can use those assets for, what they do at the center position, they may end up being better off, but they also could have had Mark Williams. The trade was agreed to. And so, you know, that's, I'm not even debating whether they should have rescinded it or not. I'm just saying when they get to where they're going in this season, it's going to be a thing that's a fair thing to ask. It's not a hypothetical.

They had him. He was, he was acquired. So, all right. So, Dave, things have changed since the last time you were in New York City a little bit. Wasn't that where you were when the Luca trade went down? That's right. We were both at the game. Yeah.

Best game of the season for the Lakers. That was such a night. Remember talking to all the Lakers. That was their best win. They're all fired up to get AD back in the next few days. They were feeling great. Everybody was in a great mood. Mendo walked out of the building,

and Dave called me and said, check your phone. I looked at my phone, and then everything changed. Yeah. You guys both called me within like seven seconds of each other. I was getting really good at that. I'm not taking these calls. Why are you both calling?

There wasn't a lot of sleep for a lot of sleep for window that night. That's true. All right, neither for you guys. All right. We'll see how the Lakers road trip continues. We'll see what the reports are on LeBron. They play in Brooklyn on Monday, and then it's off to Milwaukee and Denver. So it'll be interesting.

The hardest remaining schedule in the NBA for BPI, the Lakers. Yeah. They got a stretch of. six games and eight days that starts with that Denver, Milwaukee back-to-back, or Milwaukee, Denver, I should say, and there's two games against Denver and two games against the bucks in that stretch. So you have to imagine they come back down to earth a little bit in the standings. I'm just questioning beyond the idea of, okay, you want to be healthy come April 15th or whatever the start of the playoffs is, and that's the most important thing.

I truly believe that, is have they really... gotten a sense of continuity with this group yet. I know they had the eight-game winning streak, but even in that eight-game winning streak, Austin Reeves was missing for a couple of the games. So there hasn't been a ton of time for LeBron, Luca, and Austin Reeves in particular, who are going to be all the decision makers,

the ball's going to be in their hands, to coalesce as best as they could. That could be the ultimate thing that hits them the most from this time that LeBron misses, assuming he comes back, healthy and ready contribute is just, you know, they're a team that doesn't have the experience with one another and they're going to miss a couple weeks of that experience on the positive end, on the optimistic end.

Meanwhile, if you're Boston, you're still sleeping well. I think you're still feeling good about yourself. They feel great. I mean, you know, again, they're three and one against four of the five best teams in the league. The fifth one is coming on Wednesday. And they've had their whole team available for one of the games and they've let all of them. by at least 20. I think it underscores what they're capable of doing. And the one thing I will say, you mentioned the second half of that game. Joe Mazzula played Jason Tatum 45 minutes,

Jane LaBron, 41 minutes, Al Horford for 37 minutes. You saw in the Cavs game, he played those guys heavy minutes. Cows played the normal rotation. Celtics got tired down the stretch of that game. They were missing Drew Holiday. They were missing Chris Sperzingis, but they got tired. Caves came back and got him. That was certainly the direction that game was going again Saturday night before LeBron got hurt and then the Celtics had some shots late and won. But, you know, minutes are going to be different across the board in the playoffs, but it's just interesting to see that happening. And, you know, Joe Missoula playing Jason Tatum 45 minutes in Saturday night game in March. Well, Tatum and Brown's minutes for the season are up, right, from last year.

Yes, they are. Yes, they are. Dave loves talking about minutes. That's one of his favorite topics. I will say this. Celtics, the Celtics, we'll never know what would happen if LeBron came in for his last shift. So, Celtics are my favorites. They should remain the favorites, but don't turn off the TV when they get up 20.

The Lakers. When they get up 20 because they will. I thought you were going to the stock ESBM position of the path of the finals is there for the Lakers, baby. Sign it up. Well, I, well, all right, Charles Park. Can you just chill out? I just thought he was going to, but the Lakers were right there, and that's all. The Lakers are an underdog.

The Lakers have been awfully impressive, awfully impressive. Because of the team we're going to talk about right now, the Thunder win by 24 today at home against the Nuggets. The game was closer than the actual final. The Thunder had a huge fourth quarter pulled away. I almost feel like this game was more about the Nuggets than about the Thunder, not to focus on the team that loses. The big thing coming out of this game for Denver, well, first off, let's just pause for one second before we talk about this game

and discuss what happened on Friday night. Now, granted, this was an overtime game. So there were a few extra minutes in this. Let's not minimize the 30, 2020. I understand. But in case you missed it, I don't know how you could. Phoenix was, I think, was in Denver. And on Friday night, Nikola Yokic did something

and never happened before. He played 45 minutes in that game. So it wasn't like he played 53. 31 points, 21 rebounds, 22 assists. absolutely jaw-dropping 30-20-20 performance after the game was kind of nonchalant about it and what is he not he's I know I know I clearly but you know things it's just things haven't worked out for Phoenix at all this year and he lose a game where the other guy goes 30 20-20 20 after I mean 20 to draw it well and after they

make this crazy comeback in the final moments of the game and drew up this unbelievable. The bud drew up this incredible out of bounds play where basically they threw it into Devin Booker and there was only one or two seconds left. So you think, oh, Devin Booker's definitely going to shoot the ball. So Denver just collapsed to him and they designed it to where they were going to collapse to him and he just did a touch pass to Kevin Durant in the corner who had a wide open corner three. I haven't really seen a play like that before. It's an incredible design, ties the game, thinking, man, this is this going to be a huge win for Phoenix? And then Yokic comes out in overtime and just says, yeah, it's time for me to dominate.

They had a unique play design for Durant on a last second play about 10 days ago. I don't remember who they were playing, but I remember I was, it was the night of the Mavericks Lakers game because I was watching the end of it at Crypto. And they needed a three to force overtime. And they had Durant stand at the foul line and catch the ball line. ball because they weren't guarding him inside the foul line. They designed the play to have him catch the ball at the foul line so he could get a clean catch. And then he, by design, dribbled outside the three point line and got off a three. It was kind of weird, but that was the way they designed it.

So somebody is doing some inventive stuff in the huddle for Phoenix, but it's not resulting in wins, unfortunately. But, yeah, Booker had 34 in that game, and Durant had 29, and they still lost. And that's another bad night for Phoenix. But, um, Anyway, so Denver goes to Oklahoma City today. The big thing in this game, other than Shea has another, I mean, it was being billed as like the showdown of the two MVP performers because they play twice. It's a baseball series. They play today, Sunday afternoon. And then tomorrow they play again.

And so it was sort of being billed as this MVP, you know, who's going to take the edge. I never looked at it that way. but but you really why why because i don't judge MVP voting on one or two games head-to-head well sure you know dave you know what's position on this is going to be come on anyway uh it's actually interesting come on man no i think it's interesting because the potential western conference finals match up that's why it's interesting it can be both it can be interesting for both the reasons. Well, it's not. So let me just ask you this. So Shea had 41 points today. If Yokuch had 42, would I be like saying, oh, in a win?

Which is the favorite now. In a win where his team won outscored the other team by 20 points in the fourth quarter. Yeah, I think that would be something that you should note when it comes time to filling out your ballot. When it comes time for Tim knocking on your door asking for what your bout's going to look like for his next drop hole. Yeah. Well, listen, we're I would have known first. Because for as great as the game was on Friday, I mean, the thing that, like you said earlier, this game was more about the nuggets than the thunder. It was more about the nuggets than the thunder because Aaron Gordon hurt his calf again. That's right.

And Nicola Yolkich had 14 points on 6 for 11 shooting in the first quarter, landed on his right elbow funny and then was not very good. I mean, he put up huge numbers because he always does. He was pedestrian. He didn't hit a shot. Yeah, he didn't hit a shot until I think midway through the third quarter and did not look, like nearly the same player. And for the same reasons we were just talking about with the Lakers, right? Denver has a hard schedule down the stretch. They've got the fifth or six hardest schedule.

Memphis just loses Jaron Jackson Jr. They've got one of the 10 hardest schedules remaining in the league. They're a game back also. You've got all these teams jockeying around with potentially significant injury questions. And by the way, the Rockets have a pretty soft schedule and only one game back from there. So did you see the Rockets injury? We're going to play a huge part of this. What's that? You know what happens tonight with the rockets? Did you see that?

I mean, I was a little busy, but I know what you're talking about. Okay, yeah. You should tell the listeners, though. Yeah, you were covering the Lakers. I get it. The rockets were comfortably ahead by 20 points, and Emeudoka put Ahmed Thompson in the game to try to get, did he needed a rebound, right? He did one rebound for his first several triple.

bubble and he put him in the game on you know there was a free throw going on and the the rockets were defending the free throw whatever and literally on the the following possession he sprained his ankle made a drive you know just a freak with classic freak play um yeah he went up to take you know john of camera if he jumped to pass or jump to shoot but he landed on another player's foot and rolled his left ankle i don't think it's like a severe ankle injury however he's you know the the The Rockets have been in a bit of a free fall because of injuries to Fred Van Vleet and El Perrin Shingoon. And now, you know, I mean, it was quite blatantly. He's only plus 39 and 33 minutes against the Pelicans on Saturday.

Kind of an important player for them. Yeah. Quite blatant. I mean, the broadcast acknowledged when he came in the game, the Rockets broadcast acknowledged that's why he was coming in. It's not like a controversial statement to say that's why he's going to game game. No, no, for sure. No, for sure. Brian, did you come to him Ricky Davis hunting that triple double?

I did. Was that when he was on? You did. Yeah. So that was in 2000. Yeah, but I covered some of the games that the beat writer didn't want to cover. I covered. Also, the Olympics were that year, and our beat writer and the beat writer for the Akron B control at the time went to cover the Olympics because the cows were such a bleep show.

He would much rather spend a month in Salt Lake City. And so, yes, I covered that game. And the best part about the game was Jerry Slo. To be honest with you, when I saw it happen, I didn't compute what Ricky Davis was doing. It didn't. Let me tell you who it computed for, Mr. Jerry Sloan. Because he was enraged.

And after the game, this was a different era. In 2002, like we didn't have social media. or anything. I didn't know that he had, he went crazy to the jazz beatwriters. You know, I went to talk to Ricky Davis about it. Meanwhile, he, at the time, like, the coaches could do press conferences at the same time. Anyway, long story short, Jerry Sloan, writers from that night who covered that game won awards for their stories because of how, I'm not even exaggerating, because of how amazing Jerry Sloan was. And I wish I had the quotes up. now but he obliterated ricky davis in a way that you just don't see ever and i didn't get it i had

i think you know i was young and stupid i didn't i didn't i didn't i'd only covered maybe 12 NBA games of my career at that point i didn't understand what he was doing but the calves had 17 wins that year they they had like nothing good happened to them and they actually were winning that game and um and i think like de juan wagner who was their rookie had a big game that night too was like this big night for the cab this could be their future and um and and you Yeah, so yes, I was there for that. And that would have been more appreciated, I think, than the guy spraying his ankle. But the point that you're making, Bontemps, is that these contenders have injuries to some of their key players.

That's happening, you know, and so Aaron Gordon already missed a whole bunch of time this year with a calf injury. He leaves this game in the first quarter with a calf injury. And you could just see that Denver was just playing from a deficit the rest of the game. They just couldn't match up. Even though Chad Holmgren was in foul trouble, you know, they basically had to play Michael Porter Jr. Well, they played Zeig Najee a lot as sort of filling in. And Zieg Najee had three points and one rebound in 23 minutes. And so they played Michael Porter Jr.

They sort of needed more out of him. And he did, you know, try to rebound more. You could definitely tell that he was trying to play more of a rebounding role. and he had 15 rebounds and that's great. But clearly, Oklahoma City attacked him. And all you need to see is the plus minus. Because Aaron Gordon plays seven minutes, he's plus four. Now, okay, look, seven minutes.

You know, Yokic plays 41 minutes. He's minus 13. Okay? All right. Porter is minus 33. And it's not necessarily just about him, but it has to do with the fact that when you don't have Baron Gordon, and you have to take Yokic off the court for a few minutes any game,

that's always been the issue. You take Yokoch off the court when you also don't have Aaron Gordon, their team just collapses, especially in a night where they're not having it, like Jamal Murray had an off-shooting night. And, you know, look, I am not looking to enter the world where I'm quarreling about the value of Russell Westbrook because he undoubtedly brings certain things to that team, especially speed, and he has a good chemistry with yokech but when westbrook is out there it makes it easier for the defense it just does i don't you know it just is and then this game he's one of nine and when he's out there the other team dave you saw this last week when the lakers won in denver

the book especially and he took the date well he always takes a bit well i shouldn't say always always but he frequently takes it yeah and that allowed the lakers to pack the paint the way they wanted to and you know he did make a couple in a row that game was remarkable that the Lakers disciplined to stick with JJ's game plan after he made a couple. I think Gordon even made a couple as well. But Russell Westbrook, yeah, I agree. He's brought an edge to that team and a preparedness every night. And certainly the athleticism is still there at this stage of his career.

But there are some major gaps in his game that can be exploited. Yeah. Tim, you and I in our story that we run every Friday where we talk to people across the league, we had some stuff about Westbrook's minutes this week, too. Yeah, we, I mean, you know, we talked after watching the, the Nuggets play last Sunday in Boston, I, you know, we talked a bunch of people about Christian Brown and Russell Westbrook getting left open and the Nuggets trying to deal with that. And, you know, there was some mixed opinion about whether that would be an issue. You know, and certainly having a cheat code like

Nicola Yolkich can fix a lot of things, right? But the one thing that has been always consistent about Denver is that Aaron Gordon is the one guy outside of Yokic. But you got Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and Yokic. And they don't really have a replacement for any one of those three guys. And if they're missing any one of them or like when Jamal Murray wasn't playing to the level earlier this season, they have huge problems. And, you know, Ziegnazzi has been better lately. He's had, he's gotten some extended run with when Gordon was hurt the last time and he's had some good productive minutes for them.

but if they're relying on Zeke Nage to play instead of Aaron Gordon against the Thunder, they're going to be in trouble. And like that, you know, that's obviously an automatic thing to say. But this is the second or third time Aaron Gordon has hurt his calf. And, you know, we've talked a lot about Lucas Calf injury injuries this season. And over the last couple of years, it's a very tricky injury. Jamal has dealt with that in the past two. And it's going to be something to monitor no matter how long he's out going forward.

because he's obviously such an enormous piece of their team. And this is the kind of thing that even if you come back from it, it can pretty easily flare up again. And if that happens in a month, or two months, then Denver's hopes of a deep playoff run are going to be in a whole lot of truck. The Lakers had this incredible mid-season trade. There are two top 75 players playing with each other now in the major market where people all over the world care.

that is why we talked about it. There were two top 75 players playing together, and now there's only one. I understand. Just let me talk about the big picture here. I'm just messing around. I'm not, I don't want to give short shrift to Dave's guy AD. Okay, but it's true. They were 270, you know, but the ceiling, the ceiling was raised.

Yes. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. Fair point. Of course. Okay. Just because we talk about the Lakers a lot and because there's a lot of interest in the Lakers, at least for me, does not mean that anything has been taken away from the thunder.

And I've been saying for weeks, and I'm not saying you haven't been, Fontems, I've been saying for weeks, the thunder, the thunder, the thunder, yes, it's very interesting with the warriors. It's very interesting with the Lakers. I've heard a lot of from Brian that the thunder are not necessarily feared by everybody. And I'm just saying why. I mean, Chet Holmgren played 26 minutes in this game. Now, granted, Aaron Gordon went out.

He was in foul trouble the whole game. And if you're a Denver fan, you've been screaming, what about the Westbrook foul? Yes, there was a foul in the fourth quarter of this game. Was it the third, it was the early fourth quarter? No, it was about 10 minutes to go in the fourth, and he hit him in the head and should have fouled out and didn't get called. And then Malone got attacked and was not happening.

you need to know is that Steve Javvy came in and admitted it was a missed call. I respect Steve Javvy, but we don't hear from him very often that it was a miss call. Steve Javvy came in and said, yes, that was a foul. Yes, Holmgren should have fouled out with 10 minutes left. Yes, got it. Check. He played 26 minutes in this game. He was plus 32.

Shea missed nine threes in this game. He has weeks where he doesn't miss nine threes. they win by 24. This team is a beast. They're really good. They're really good. It was interesting, though, because we did talk about the Lakers, and I do think the interesting ripple effect of this LeBron injury is I think it makes

like we've just discussed with the schedule, right? There's a very real possibility that the Lakers are not, could be falling all the way to fifth. That wouldn't be shocking at all if the Ron misses a while. But it certainly is very plausible that they're not going to finish second or third anymore. And, you know, it was interesting watching the Lakers play the Celtics. They did not let the Celtics just bomb away from three, which they've basically been doing throughout the past six weeks. They've given up, you know, as Dave knows better than anybody, they've given up more threes just about than any team in the league as they've been on this hot street defensively.

But you watch this Thunder game today, and yes, they ended up winning by 20, but Denver went to some zone in the second half. And especially at the end of the third quarter, and they got themselves back in the game because the Thunder got. some clean looks from three and just couldn't knock any of them down. And that does remain the thing that we have to watch with the Stunner team when they get in the playoffs is, are they going to have, you know, are these supporting players, Lou Dort and Aaron Wiggins and, you know, Chad Holmgren, you know, all these guys around Shea, are they going to hit enough threes to prevent teams from just saying, hey, we're going to pack the paint. We're going to let Shea, you know, try to limit from doing everything you can and we're going to dare some of these guys to hit shots.

That was a formula that saw Dallas beat them last year. Certainly a formula of to play the Lakers, say, in the second round. The Lakers are certainly going to say, I'm sure, hey, like, we're going to dare Alex Gruso and, you know, Lou Dort, some of these guys to hit shots and beat us. And it's going to be interesting to see if the Thunder can do so in a big spot. They got two. They have two over a three-day spats. in Oklahoma City, similar to this kind of OKC deal.

Yeah, it's like the, I think it's right before they go to Dallas for the return game for Luca. So it's something like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's April 6th and 8th. And then they play the night in Dallas. So yeah, a big, big moment right there. And they played them pretty early on in the year. Max Christie made a mistake late in the game, misheard what JJ was asking for,

fouled when they didn't want a foul, and they ended up losing a tight game. And I know that, you know, it's a much different Lakers team now, but that Lakers team prior to the trades that they made, that took some wind out of their sales, because it was a game that they were kind of getting amped up for as the measuring stick game.

And the Thunder out-executed them, out tough them. They went and took the fights in L.A. And, yeah, again, I don't know how much we'll be able to glean from these games in April until we see what version of the Lakers are on the court. And what version of the Thunder are, too. You're talking to last week of the regular season. Who knows how many guys the Thunder are going to be playing, right?

Like, they're going to have everything more than wrapped up by then. They're already 10 games up. So, you know, that's going to be interesting to see, too. By the way, while you were talking earlier, Brian, I found these Jerry Sloan quotes from the Ricky Davis game. Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah, I want to hear. Does my memory flawed or is this good? No, oh no. Oh, no. Your memory is often flawed. It wasn't flawed on this one.

Here's the quote. Quote. So we're talking about Deshawn Stevenson, who fouled Ricky Davis. Quote, Deshawn fouled him. I would have fouled him too. I would have knocked him on his bleep. If you try to embarrass a team after a 20-point lead, you're bleeping right. I'd knock them down. I was glad Deshaun tried to knock him down. They can put me in jail or whatever they want for saying that. That's the way it is.

The best part, this is the best part. The best part isn't even, you might, you also probably remember this. Like those Jerry Sloan quotes are great. The best part is the quote that Ricky Davis gave as an apology to the Associated Press later, which was, quote, they should be mad. Any team that gets beat that bad shouldn't be happy.

But I wouldn't do it again. I just wouldn't. Cigarie. Yeah, I remember that they brought him out to apologize. I'm telling you, if I was doing the game. Wow.

I just got down to this later. Mark Davis was doing the game. Oh, was he? So was that John Lucas? Was the Cavs coach then? He'd been fired already. He's smart. Oh, okay.

Yeah, he's smart. He's smart. I'm pretty sure it's possible that those quotes from Jerry Sloan did not. This is, you want to know why Bont Temps, I wasn't made the Cavs beat writer immediately, and I was interim for like a year when LeBron got there. I'm pretty sure I didn't have those quotes in my LeBron story or in my Cav story that night. And I'm pretty sure either the news desk called me or maybe they took the Sloan quotes from the Associated Press and stuck them in there.

I seem to remember that the, you know, arguably quotes of the year, you know, post-game from the coach. And I did not have them. Well, this is from the Desiree News. This is actually a funny paragraph, too, for where things came later. The Cavs even have been accused of tanking games in an effort to land high school sensation and projected number one overall draft choice, LeBron James. And the Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper actually runs a weekly graphic dubbed, quote, the race for LeBron that updates the progress or lack there of the league's five worst teams.

Sunday, though, the jazz looked like they were chasing LeBron. They just dominated us all the way around, Sloan said. That's great. Yeah. This is a delightful story. By the way, as long as we're going on memory lane, during that season, like during the year, or maybe it was in the off season, but right before that season. Oh, it was right before the season. It was like in the preseason workouts, like in September.

The Cavs invited LeBron. I was watching, you know, NBA coach, NBA personnel. is not allowed to talk to or about potential players in the draft. In fact, that rule is still in existence. Over when I was over in Paris in January, I was talking to a high-ranking Spurs official, and A.J. DeBanza, who is the potential 2006 number one overall pick he and his father i had arranged we were going to do an interview on

espn they came over to me and i went to introduce um just to be nice because i'm standing there court side i went to introduce um a j to this high-ranking spurs official and the spurs official had turned and run away i can testify to the nba like they they like they're like they were so i was just trying to be polite i didn't want to make any rules so just just to be clear like those are the hard and fast rules and they've been around forever the cabs invited LeBron into workouts with their team like in 2002 like or like in the fall of 2002 like come on in and like work out with our team and the media was there and wrote about it I don't realize the media was there oh that's I didn't know that Lucas did the same thing with Kobe Bryant so John Lucas invited LeBron to practice with the cats he also invited Kobe as a high school or practice with the Sixers.

All right. Maybe let me walk that back. It's possible the plane dealer reported it. Branson Wright was the rate of the time. I'd maybe need to check with him. Anyway, it appeared in the paper, like as a,

like not even like sources said. Like it was sort of a happenstance. By the way, LeBron's been working out with the cast. And John Lucas, um, uh, was suspended for two games that year.

LeBron would sometimes come to games. And, would just come into the Cavs locker room. LeBron's senior year of high school, he definitely was in the Cavs locker room after a game in his St. V. Letterman's jacket sitting at a locker, like waiting to talk to his friends on the Cavs. Like that was happening.

So that's the time that we're talking about here. All right, well, before we go, Dave, I want to talk about... To bring it back, just really quick, to bring it back to the present, while we were talking about the thunder, I got a text from our pal George Sedano, who, unprompted, didn't text him at all today. He just texted me and goes, I had OKC on the radio today. Anyone doubting them, meaning the Thunder is doing so at their own peril.

I said, could I quote you on that? Because I literally talk about the Thunder right now. He's like, yeah, go for it. So, yeah. Our guy, George is impressed on the scene today. I am not a doubter. I'm a believer in the Thunder. All right, Dave, the game you were at on Thursday night where there was some significant news that

happened. The Nick started their West Coast trip against the Lakers in L.A. It was a much anticipated game. Lots of excitement in and around the Laker bench in that game. And what I mean by that is you talking to Larry David pregame, which made the pod on Thursday night, Dave. We covered that in depth on the HOOP collective on Friday. I had a listener of the pod come up to me at the baggage claim at Logan around midnight. I got in pretty late on Friday. And the first thing you wanted to talk to me about was the interaction.

I assumed, oh, he must have saw it on my Instagram. Okay. No, I heard the guys talking about it on the pod. So yeah. I just have to say, I just want to, I want to frame this. Dave McMenaman in his vows at his wedding last summer, which were beautifully written, Dave. I'd like to say that to you.

They were. Great. I'm not even, I'm not joking. I'm being, I'm being. I'm just being real. As am I. The whole thing was great. Quoted Larry David.

Quoted Larry David. This is the kind of status. This is accurate. That, you know, his father was standing right there. But I think Dave, like, you know, sort of sees Larry is like, you know, this. Oh, he's like my views, for sure. Yeah. 100% my role model.

Yeah. So I got a chance to meet him in 2009. I already comes to NBA games pretty, pretty, regularly. I'm sure I've covered a dozen games over the years that he's been at. And he's been at many more that I wasn't covering. In 2009, he was sitting that same seat

court side right next to the Lakers bench and he gets there very early. And he was talking to Alex McKechny who was the Lakers head of training and performance at the time. Now it works for the Raptors. And Larry was standing up, courtside,

going over a golf tip with McKechnie. And And my fan- Which could be a curbing enthusiasm episode. Oh, absolutely. And again, there was a Kirby enthusiasm episode where Larry was sitting in those exact seats and he tripped Shaquille O'Neal. Like 20 years ago.

Shaq has to go to the hospital and Mrs. Time and Larry makes it up to him by giving him every single episode of Seinfeld on a VHS tape. That's how long curbs on there. But so I was. that my fandom burned just as bright back down as it does now. And I'm like, I don't go talk to McKechnie in front of Larry.

So now I have one degree of separation. And that will allow me to voice myself upon Larry. Boyce, look at that. He's genius. This is Dave. So I could do this for another hour. I'm just going to sit back. So that day, though, Larry is now

just going through his golf routine. It's still an hour to tip off. Isn't even watching the guys work out. It was before a playoff game, and Kobe's on the Lakers at that point. No, he's engrossed in his New York Times crossword puzzle, legs crossed. And I had to peer over the newspaper to get his attention. And I go into the whole, I'm the biggest fan. I love Seinfeld.

I love Kerr. I'm sure he never hears that. Yeah. And he just looks up at me and just goes, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So.

Okay. Okay. Long time NBA. writer Ken Berger used to refer to that as the not okay okay is what he gave me so that that was the moment I had to live with for years

and years yeah just okay so this time around he's there very early once again one of my buddies Jim Porton who's a long time NBA photographer

and content maker yeah Jim Ice yep If you saw him, you know, you'd recognize him. He's in a thousand NBA shots. Jim Ice is a legend. And Dan Wakey at the L.A. Times, both of them, I had already gone to the back to transcribe pregame quotes from JJ Reddick,

and they're out in the court and they see Larry there, all by I'm lonesome, and they're both blown on my phone. Come out to the court. Come out to the court. And they're like, you got to do it, man. This is your moment. So I mustered up the, I guess, to marriage. to approach him again.

This time did not come with a fan angle, did not reference that lost opportunity 16 years ago. I pitched him on a story. I'm not going to tell you what the story is on this podcast because hopefully the story comes to the fruition. But then I told him that when the Lakers were in Miami earlier in the season, I went to his show. He's with Kerb being off air.

He's doing kind of like a give-back, an evening with Larry David, where he does a bit of a stand-up routine, and then he brings on cast members from the show onto the stage, and they do a Q&A. And I told him how weird some of the people in the audience were asking questions. And he started laughing that, like, full-body chuckle that he has

and say, oh, yeah, they're crazy, just crazy. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sorry. He may have a specific kind of laugh. Okay, okay. this time you made Larry David laugh. Look, Dave, I didn't know what was going on the other day. I didn't know what you were doing.

All I was told was live on the pod, I was told you were talking to Larry David. And I was like, Dave having a full conversation with Larry David is the top X moment in life. And the X is a single digit number. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's going to be maybe we have kids someday. Don't get in trouble, Dave. Don't get in trouble. It's right on the level of the wedding.

Let's see. Now you're going to get in trouble. I think right on the level. I didn't. Yes, sure. There was some engagement in the pitch that I, the story I wanted to do involving him. And it involves someone else in the NBA as well. And so we were leaving.

And I said, okay, so I have a tacit agreement from you. And I'm going to take it to this other guy. There's no tacit agreement. No, no tacit agreement. No, no tacit agreement. Don't be trying to push this over the goal line. I'm like, all right. Can I say, is it percolating?

Are we percolating here? Okay, we're percolating. And there he shook hands. Yeah. Yeah, he should never win an Emmy for playing that character because it's just himself. He's not playing any character. Now, they're writing, different story.

All right. Look, it's Ari Emanuel's seats. He's got four seats right there. And that night, Larry David, Ari Emanuel, and Stephen A. Smith sat in those seats and nothing happened. The most important, most relevant thing that happened is Dave's conversation with Larry David before that. Unfortunately for the Knicks on the court that night, something did interesting newsworthy happen.

And that was Jalen Brunson turning his right ankle. The Knicks, I don't think, announced it as a grade two sprain bontemps, but their press release implied that it was a grade two sprain. Yeah. It's a multi-week injury. Yeah, it wasn't great. and obviously, you know, we've talked about it a lot. I mean, Jalen Brunson is everything for the Knicks.

And his play in the clutch this year has been exemplary. He's carried an enormous load for them. We've talked a ton about, you know, why he, you know, I would probably have him fifth on my MVP ballot as of today because of the just the immense work he's done in clutch time all season for them. And if the Knicks don't have him for, I mean, they already don't happen for, I think, John's report at least a couple weeks. I mean, that looked like it could be easily the rest of the month.

I mean, if he's out for that kind of stretch, you know, you could be talking about the Knicks sliding back to fourth, fifth, the sixth, in the east pretty quick. And again, like we were talking about the beginning of the pop, but the Lakers and these other teams in the West, you know, if the Knicks somehow wind up in the four or five in the first round and they avoid being on the same side of the bracket as Boston, I'm not saying they're going to to beat the calves, but we have talked plenty about the matchup with the Celtics, and that we know it's going to go a certain direction. So if they can get Jalen Brunson back at some point,

and they can have them ready to go for the playoffs and they end up in the four or five, maybe it's a blessing in disguise, but the Knicks could be in an awful lot of trouble without him. They're already starting to show some signs of wear and tear. They dropped a couple of games in a row before he got hurt. Now without him, it's going to be very difficult to generate. enough offense and you know we'll see what they look like over the next few weeks well this is what happens when you have yeah go ahead i was just saying cat cat was he brought nothing to the table

that night i didn't know recognize he had just spent some time away from the team dealing with a you know a family friend uh passing away and so he could have maybe not been at the best mental space to perform i don't want to speculate but they're going to need cat to be much much better than he was the other night with Stan this time. Yeah, Jalen Brunson's been the number one performer in the clutch this season. He would be a strong, I haven't seen the numbers. He would be a strong favorite to win the, I think, unless you think I'm on. I can't imagine somebody else is winning the award as of today.

Yeah. So that's, it's a bit of a double-edged sword, though, because one of the reasons why he is there is because whenever the Knicks are in a close game, the ball's in his hand and he does everything. And so when you lose that player, you're in real trouble. In fact, that's one of the things, you know, the Cavs, I made, I got it in, Bod Tamps. I got it in. I'm here for a Caves Corner, I'm here for a Caves Corner. Listen, I wanted to do the pod for the listeners, for the listeners of viewers.

I want to do the pod tonight. Ryan's like, I can't, can't do it. Can't do it. I got things to do. We know he's going to be locked in a couple hours. That's why. Yeah, you act like I'm hosting a. Say, you say, you're going to have some popcorn or soda.

You're going to be locked in for Cavs Bucks, Pivotal game. It's going to be a big game. I will be in the air. I'm not even sure who's playing that game from Milwaukee. It's a second I have a back-to-back. But the calves. Okay, good. The cats have a 13-game winning straight.

The last four games, they've barely won. Their last one on Friday. We're definitely going to wake up with the bucks winning tomorrow after that. Yeah. They won by one point in Charlotte on Friday night. And they're, you know, they're beating these teams that really, frankly, they should handle, like, you know, Chicago, the Heat. She was missing three starters. I know Portland's been better recently, but that game was at home. But the takeaway from those games is that they've won all those games in clutch time, and they've done it all different ways. There have been times where DeAndre Hunter being the player has been talking.

where it's been Darius Garland, there's been times when it's been Donovan Mitchell. Kenny Atkinson has played different lineups, different strategies. They've done a whole bunch of different things. And so while I do think there's a, you know, a few orange flags, not red flags, there's a few orange flags with the Cavs right now that you're kind of getting hidden by this 13-game win streak, they have demonstrated throughout the year that they can go a whole bunch of different directions. And that's not something a team Mike the Knicks has demonstrated. So Jalen goes down and it just compounds the injury.

So. And the Knicks just are, you know, it's the same thing with the nuggets. The Nuggets are not a deep team. So Aaron Gordon goes down and you just, you just feel it so much more. The Nicks are not a deep team. You have a player go down and just feel it a lot more. And, you know, to the Lakers, to a certain extent, at certain positions, they have depth on the wings, but at certain positions they're,

So again, Jackson Hayes goes down, all of a sudden, you're leaning on Trey Jameson to, like, play, like, a lot more than you need them. And so it's what happens. You know, you know, teams that are in the middle of the contender pack are in the middle of the contender pack for a reason. But it's just the worst. You know, I've, you guys have covered teams before when you're on a long road trip and a player gets hurt. and then like and then they had a game the next night like the the the lakers that had the or the knicks had to turn out and play the clippers the next night of course it just works out that way like that's why you can never in my opinion you can never evaluate a team during a long road trip

like if it's struggling like sometimes during long road trip stuff happens and you just take flesh wounds and you just got to kind of carry your way through and so I would apply that to the lakers over this next week, Dave, with their injury condition. And I apply it to the Knicks right now as they're dealing with it on this West Coast trip. So, all right, Montemps has a game to cover. Dave has an off night in New York City. I'm not going to deny him that. Thank you to Rafa, our producer.

Thank you to Bontemps and to McMenaman. Thank you for watching, Lissom the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week.