Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Celtics Most Consequential Win Of Year? + Adam Silver Takes a Major Stand

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Vince Goodwill and Anthony Slater to discuss the Celtics big win over the Thunder in Boston including a huge game from Jaylen Brown and why this was one of the more consequential games of the season. Then, we break down if the MVP race is actually heating up before talking about some historic MVP votes that we disagree with. Plus, we tackle how far NBA commissioner Adam Silver will go on tanking after his stern comments at the board of governors meeting. Finally, how concerning are the tough times for the Warriors for next season? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Thursday afternoon. I guess it's evening out on the East Coast.

And that's where our guy, Vince Goodwill, is, joining us from Boston, Massachusetts. What up, though, Wendy? How are you doing? I'm good, man. I'm in L.A. and joining me from up north in NorCal in Sacramento, is he in his backyard or is he in his studio with a picture of his backyard? behind him. You be the judge, Anthony Slater. Well, you were talking about, like, what time it is in various places. It's like permanently 1 p.m. in this location than I am. Zero mile per hour wind. You won't see any movement behind me. But yes, it's, you can decide, am I in my backyard or am I in a fake version of it. Vince, when he got his new studio set up and, you know, they had this

beautiful screen behind him, people were upset that we didn't have the backyard anymore. We, we sort of track the year by by the growth in the backyard and you know so the backyard is back that's all i can say you know it was i thought it was a i thought it was a screen the whole time really like even it would have been an impressive screen i was doing there was like some december uh hits where i was talking about like clay thompson's like foggy and a little rainy out i i could like you know control the weather this one i can't control the weather on so we just need to get a series of photos for the mood of the situation I will say,

dawn. Prior to taking this photo about an hour ago, I mowed the lawn before taking the photo. You dress the set. Don't have to, don't have to mow it again, though. That's right. You'll never have to mow it again.

Glorious. All right. Vince, you were at what I think ended up being one of the most consequential games in the NBA so far this year on Wednesday night. It'll be a little bit dated by the time the pod comes out, but I still think that we need to pay attention to it. You were up in Boston,

Thunder in town, was a 12-game win-street? 12-game win streak. Celtics, both teams really at full strength, right? I think everybody was playing. Only Busavich for the Celtics is out. That's right. That's right.

Nicola Vosovic was out. And what we saw was a very consequential game with the Celtics winning. And what I thought was, I don't like the idea of a statement game from a champion and finals MVP, Jalen Brown. But I think he felt a certain way about the way this game went down. Yeah, he looked like he was playing the game. on a mission, especially early in the game when the Celtics, it seemed, I don't know if it seemed like this to you, Wendy, and Slater from watching from afar. It seemed like the thunder were just on the verge of blowing Boston out in the first and second quarter. And you just look up and

you're thinking, they're down 15 and they were down like seven. And Boston just kept hitting a shot or two to keep themselves close. And then Jalen Brown went and did the things that Shea Gilder's Alexander does, like the stepback, the pump fake, the lean in, and I'm going to get five. by you on your shot and hit a three-point play. Like, there was an extra degree of force from Jalen Brown last night. Like, I think it's so easy Wendy and Slater to focus on the MVP candidate, so to speak. You know, Shea and Jalen Brown. What stuck out to me was that J-dub, J-Lan Williams, was playing his second game back

after missing 26 of 28 games with that hamstring injury. And Jason Taden was playing, I think, his ninth game. game and I think the conferences respectively might be determined by those players more than the stars like jalen williams has to get it going so that teams don't load up on shay and ask alex caruso and kaysen wallace and lu dort to make shots like there there is a book defensively out on a thunder not many teams can actually execute it but there is a book so to week and it's going to be to load up and make somebody else make shots and jdub has to be able to alleviate some of that pressure and for the celtics up until last night jason tatum was shooting

the most shots per 36 minutes in his career and i know people are thinking like what does that mean to me that shows he's trying very hard to become the jason tatum that he's always been and i don't know if he can actually achieve that this year and it might not even matter because the celtics might just be that good. They can use a diminished version of Jason Tatum and still get through the Eastern Conference playoffs. Depends on how to finish, though, right? I mean, you know.

But he, I would say the two things, you know, the J-Lib Brown lean in one with, like, that was one of my favorite kind of moments of the season, right, the way he giggled. Because when did they play Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City? Like two weeks ago. Okay, and he had the post-game. What was the post-game comment he had?

Like, I don't foul bait or, like, we shouldn't be rewarded. Yeah. right right yeah and then he shot like 21 free throws a couple games later it's almost like he left that game after making that comment it was like yeah let's see if i try a few of these states and it's been working right and i i've never seen jalen brown so satisfied after a make than he was on that pump fake lean in on shea and one uh but you know to to to veney's point and even brian the way you framed it is like kind of a statement game for boston i think in a lot of ways it is is they're like coalescing and tatum i think is has this usage rate because i think i think

He's trying to as quick as possible get himself to a level, you know, the highest level he can by playoff time because it's such a shortened season for him. But on the thunderside, while, yes, they were whole for the first time in a while, it's such a like fresh, wide rotation version of themselves. Jalen Williams, what do you play? 24 minutes maybe. I saw him. Yeah, yeah. Tanned in the first half. He's so fresh off this injury.

And I think they did play like an 11-man rotation. Everybody was playing like 21, 22 minutes. They're trying to play McCain and Isaiah Joe. And I saw, you were on NBA today today, Wendy, with Jeremy Lynn. Yes, I was. Yeah, he broke it down. The last two days, Jeremy Lynn. I'm going to say that as a quick aside, Jeremy Lynn is in for the week, guys.

And, you know, we have occasionally some, you know, relatively major names that come through that studio. there was a bunch of folks who wanted to drop by the studio to say hi to Jeremy Lynn. The guy is a, especially for a certain, you know, group is a gigantic star. So it was interesting to watch people like who are used to being, you know, they don't care about Kendrick Perkins. They were very, very excited to see Jeremy Lynn. About the level of when they see Brian Windhorst. I know. No.

Ask some people. So, but I mentioned him because he did like a little like breakdown of the way Boston attacked, you know, Oklahoma City. And it did seem like almost playoff game planning from Missoula. And he's like, you know, they're trying to get McCain as, you know, the bottom man is like basically the helpside guy and Isaiah Joe is being targeted and all that. And I just don't think the Thunder and Mark Dagnold, especially in Jaylon's second game back, were at all attacking it as a play. playoff game. I think you could shorten the rotation. If your smalls are getting exploited like that, we know what type of rotation that Thunder have. If they shorten it to eight or nine and just went defensive hounds out there. So very impressive from the Boston side,

but I wasn't like ringing any alarm bells on the Oklahoma City side. Yeah, as a quick aside, I have talked to some people about the concept of whether you game plan where you want to show your cards in a regular season game. In fact, I was talking to another one of my studio mates right now Michael Malone about it. And he said that he, you know, he said it was more

like that you didn't necessarily want to show you know, after timeout plays that you may use you know, later on the season. Because that's one of the things, I remember earlier this year, this is an aside to an aside. Earlier this year, I had a dinner with an advance scout.

And his team was playing. that while we were sitting there watching the end of the game, his team was playing. And, you know, he had prepared the, he had just prepared the scouting report for that game, you know, the day before, two days before. And we got into a situation where his team was going to be

having to defend a side out of bounds play. And he goes, okay, I think his team was playing Boston, actually. He's like, okay, Missoula is either going to go with A, B, or C. I'll be able to tell you as soon as they line up what they're going to do. And as soon as they lined up, he goes, okay, they're going with play B. And of course, he was exactly right. He goes to this all the time in this late game situation.

He was right. And I'm fairly certain. I don't remember how the play turned out, but his team won. And so those are some of the things that, you know, if you have special plays that you may run, you know, late game situations, you know, after, ATO stands for after time out, ATO. And maybe you may not show those things. But Malone's like, you know, you definitely could somewhat, you know,

show a game plan that you may use. Like, you know, there's not many surprises in the NBA. He gives the, what happens in the postseason is more individualized game plans, you know, for individual players, what I mean? Like, you know, they may do something to an individual player that they wouldn't do in the regular season just because for prep reasons. But certainly Slater is right, Vince, I do think that Missoula treated that game more like a game of consequence than The Thunder did. Yeah, I think he kind of had to.

I think, for one, when you're the champion, and I said this to someone with the Thunder and he kind of nodded his head, when you're the Thunder and you're the defending champion, there's no more big games in the regular season. Like there are big games, but there are no more big games. to some degree you are everybody's big game. You are everybody's champion, so to speak, where you're used to, you know, playing 82 playoff games in a sense. Like, that's why San Antonio gets up for them all the time. And maybe a playoff series is a lot different with game planning and intensity and everything

else. So I think for Boston, especially considering they're trying to get to a certain level, like, they were going to take this game way more seriously. they lost the game two weeks ago in Oklahoma City. They didn't feel great coming out of that. They felt great about the effort. They didn't feel great about the result. And add to the fact that, look, they're trying to fight off the New York Knicks for second seed in the Eastern Conference.

Like home court advantage in both conferences, I think, is going to mean a lot in second round series, or conference final series. So I just think, especially with the Tatum factor and trying to get him involved and figuring out where he fits with him. I think he was like 11 for 31 and the two games previously going into that. The Celtics needed that. They needed some positive reinforcement in that game way more than Oklahoma City. This was the getaway game for OKC. This was the last game of what, a five or six game road trip.

Five, yeah. You know, they're going home. They're only like a 12-game win streak too, right? Yeah. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. But it did creak the door open for the spurs, which to me, this is more of an MVP conversation than like a, you know, top seed home court and a game seven of a West finals, although, you know, that could be pretty critical too.

But isn't creaking the door open for the one seed creaking the door open a little bit for this Wemby campaign that is just rushing into your TV screens lately? Boy, I'll tell you what, I got a, I haven't talked to anybody in Oklahoma City, so I'm speculating. And I don't even mean with the organization, it doesn't, you know, that's not even really relevant. If you're a Thunder fan. Guy on the ground, just Oklahoma's Bricktown. He wants to walk around Bricktown and pull people.

Like everybody else from Nebraska last week. Oh, man. I got to imagine that if you're a Shea fan, you're pretty annoyed with the concept that he's somehow getting caught by Victor. Even though Victor is doing some amazing stuff, like Shea is, he has not slowed down. They're like he's had a slump or something like that. And his team's just won 12.

They just lost for the first time in a month. and like it's very out there amongst people who are voters like us people saying i don't know like maybe victor and like i can just imagine that the shea fans are not happy number one i was there the game that she hit the step back on the the nuggets to you know the game winner which felt like the clincher for the i have all the answers i just got to wait for the question yeah yeah yeah that felt like okay MVP's over and vegas kind of agreed right didn't he go to like minus 1,000 or something that night. And I'm not sure how much he shifted.

But you know that I knew it wasn't over. You know why. Yeah. There's always time. Yeah. And like honestly, like if, if it's a good move by Wambayama to like really vocalize it. Like, you know, and again, it's, it's part of why I asked Draymond last night in his press conference and he gave that four minute, 40 second answer about it.

Well, I always appreciate Draymond's being loquacious. But he was being redacted. Well, the defensive part, there's two sides of his answer. And I think you're going to get to the ridiculousness of the defensive part, which is fine. You can go ahead. But the part I actually asked him about it's the second half of his answer, which is interesting, is like I believe and I think he believes that when you do vocalize as he has done in the past, as he did last year and vaulted himself in the defensive player of the year campaign,

if you start a conversation as he did, it makes it more likely win the award. So I do think Wimbabeyama doing what he did made him more likely to win MVP. You can get to Draymond's other part of his argument. Well, that's what Jalen Brown did, too. Was it like a month or six weeks ago, Vince, where he was like, I'm the best two-way player in the league. Regardless of whether it's true or not, it started a lot of people talking about how great of a two-way player he is.

The amazing thing, and I said this, someone get up, it's almost like he told someone, hey, ask me about MVP. And then someone asks him, and he says, it's funny you should say that about MVP. here's what I think about. I have a three-point PowerPoint plan on why I believe I am MVP.

I have zero problem with a player advocating for himself. The funniest part to me was, he said, there's a bit of a debate going on. I didn't know there was a debate going on, but he created one through the power through the power of his own

conversation. And the next day, it was, is Victor Wimbonyam to MVP? And you're forced to actually ask and consider to the question, I thought matters had been kind of adjudicated a little bit. Yeah, well, I think that we're going to, we're headed for one of, you know, Bontemps is going to do his poll here pretty soon. It's going to be one of the most consequential Bontemps polls we've ever seen because that,

that last poll that Bontemps has done, not only has it predicted a bunch in a row, I think, I think it's like four or five. And I don't, I don't know, I don't want to put on the spot. But not only has he been, has he been nailing the winner, but he's been nailing the percentages. Like in the last couple of years, he got within like one or two percent of the right votes. He does a really smart thing, which is he literally just asked the people that are going to be voting. He asked me every, you know, every time.

I vote every year. I mean, are you saying that Wendy is giving Bantams too much credit? No, I'm saying he's giving them the proper credit. But the reason he gets it right is because he does the smart thing and he goes and he asks the people that are actually voting. Well, you know what? It's not really a poll. I mean, it is because he's, you know, the NBA doesn't publish the list of 100 voters and they haven't and they haven't even selected them yet. So he can't for sure know the 100.

Yeah, he's not going 100 for 100, but he's going to really smart subsection. Likely. I think I think what it's called in the political world, likely voters. And he's not doing 10 voters. He's doing 100. So he and he's doing them in all the markets. Like every time he does one, I feel like I've got a 10. tell everybody because I don't think, you know, people probably are annoyed, but like he goes to, you know, the vote and be a voters.

There's one in every, there's two in every market, I think, right? Vince. Two in every market. So that's 60. Yeah. And then the other 40 are made up of international and national media in all the phases, broadcast, writing, team media, national media, etc. Hey, buddy. He goes.

Yeah. Annie makes you give you, any makes you give you all five. Give me your ballot. That's right. Not just like, who's good. And he harasses you. You know, and you know, it's funny, Wendy, there was one year out of the last 16 that I've not had an MVP or a postseason award.

And I'm still pissed at both teams for the reason why I was transitioning. We say, that sounds like a bad word. I was going from Detroit to Chicago from covering the pissings to covering the bulls. I covered the pissings for maybe like 47 games. games or somewhere around there. And what happens is the teams tell the league, oh, here are the beat guys. These are the guys who have been coming for all year. That's right. The Bulls thought the Pistons were putting my name down. The Pistons thought the Bulls were putting my name down. Neither side put my name down, even though I covered like a grand total of like 85 regular season

games all told. So I did not have an MVP vote, MVP vote in 2014-15, where Steph won his first MVP and all that and I was I was despondent who would you have voted for no stuff would have got my vote that year fan of okay well they won't like 60 they won like 65 games or whatever it was 67 67 there you go six seven first steve curses um okay so the bond temp's poll will be interesting when it comes out by the way like there's down like as any player will tell you there's downsides to dealing with the media and you know and no annoyances and things that, you know, infuriate them, whether it's fair or not. So you might as well use the entire spectrum of it, you know, so when you have an opportunity,

I mean, that's what I'm saying, Victor's smart. As for what Draymond said, what was annoying about what Draymond said, was that he talked about a, basically, a straw man argument, which is, you know, you know, why does he, why does anybody have to say that, you know, the, what did he say exactly, Slater? He felt that whimby saying defense is 50% of basketball was taken by like, you know, the shows that you guys are on every morning as like a profound statement of like, wow, we just learned today that defense is 50% of basketball. Obviously, it was kind of in a lot of ways, the self-serving side of his. Yeah, he was burnishing his own resume. Yeah. Well, welcome to the world of Draymond Green. I know.

And by the way. He took the question, gobbled it up through. his lens and then definitely had motives within his answers, delivered it very animatedly and entertainingly, ticked off Brian Windhorst, always a great checkpoint. But yeah, I mean, that was him saying, hey, we need to pay more attention to defense as a viewing public. Well, let me just say two things, and we'll move on. One, Draymond, while he's had difficult days and weeks in his career,

he is going to go into the Hall of Fame. He has four championship rings. has a gold medal, he is made hundreds of millions of dollars, and he's regarded as one of the best defensive players of his generation. He's doing okay. That's number one. Number two is the defense has always been a part of the MVP vote. Yes, there are years when like Nikola Yoko-chwins, where defense matters less, but I won't even spend the time to go back and list all of the players who were honored for their defense the same year they won the MVP. All four years, for example, LeBron won MVP.

He was all defense, which did not happen every year of his career. I think out of 23 years, LeBron made all defense six or seven times. He won MVP four times. It wasn't like he made it 19 times. Jordan won, he was on the all-defense of team, four of the six times he won MVP. Obviously, a couple years ago, Yannis won defensive player of the year. and MVP. I can go on and on and on.

I mean, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar made like 12 all-defensive teams, and he won all those MVPs. I didn't look it up, but I'm sure that many of those years he was all defense. I will say this to some degree. You could make the case that Victor's a more impactful defensive player than offensive player.

And very rare, very rarely. I don't even think there's a case. I think that's absolutely true. Right, right. And what my point is, only with maybe Elijah when Eliza won it in 94, and maybe David Robinson in 95, but I think he's a better offensive player. Could you make the argument that the MVP was a more impactful player on defense than

offense? I don't think Draymond meant that. But I'm saying that this would be a rarity in that instance if he won the award. If his greatest value is on defense in a league now, well, let's be honest, we don't say Jack Bo Diddley about defense. Like the league has tilted the axis far more towards offense than it has in recent. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

He's like, if Draymond has a beef, it's the league doing this. I mean, this Shea Arm bar, and I don't even know if he pioneered it, but he uses it most effectively, which by the way Jalen used against Shea last night. And there was in that in that Minnesota Houston game, which was one of the crazy games of the year. There was one key play where Julius Randall basically threw a punch. He shoved, I can't remember if it was Shengoon. He shoved that arm so hard that it almost registered on the radar gun at Target Field. That's how much he threw that arm.

And it was like, referee was like, yeah, no problem. So, yeah, you're making a good point. Can I do a Vince Goodwill trivia question? I don't know the answer to this, but he might, right? Because he's a trivia guru. Did he? Did he? Did it again?

Yes. Okay, well, I have a trivia question for him right here. And again, I don't know the answer. Maybe Jackson can look it up. I'm sorry, I'm sorry Slater. What was the question that you got right? The question was from Hembo of the players who won back-to-back MVP's who has the highest scoring average of those two years.

And the answer was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, then Luw Al-Sinder and the two years he wanted the first, I think it's second and third year in Milwaukee, where he might have averaged 31 and 34 or something like that. Who had the, so I'm sorry, say that again, who had the higher scoring average? The highest scoring average of, if you won an MVP back-to-back, who was the player who scored the most of the back-to-back. This is like a Luca-based question, right? She a Shea-based question. Shea. Oh, Shay-Bet. Well, Lucas. The most who won their second, like, if you were on your second, you have to win back-to-back MVP's.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Let me, so my question, my tribute, my tribute question for Vince, uh, who, win and if, has it ever happened or how recent has the MVP also won defensive player in the year? Because it's a little more, like, when is winning? in defensive player of the year. Yonis won both. Yonis won both in 2019. And I think had it not happened since Elijah won? And Elijah won it in 94.

And Duncan never won defensive player to you believe it or not. Interesting. Okay. Let's see. Thank you. Trimmy guru. Traymond was right. How did we get you here?

Jackson has the three guys who have won it. And Jordan did it in 88. He was the first. Yeah, Jordan, Elijah one and Janus. It's happened three times. There you go. But it might be four. I was put it this way.

I think it's going to be Shea. I think it's going to be Shea. But I would say that I do think that regardless of what Wembeiyama's pitch was, I do think that voters are looking for a reason to vote for Wembe. And if the Spurs pass the thunder, that could be a reason. The question is, okay, if they pass the thunder, because I think McMahon has said that maybe it was today or yesterday or something of the sort that if they pass a thunder, it's an easy choice. How close do the spurs have to get without surpassing them? Like it's two games now.

Well, how about this? How about they tie and they have the tie breaker? They win the tie breakers. Then they win. Then they pass them. Then they pass them. I wonder if some of this is OKC backlash to some degree. Yes, absolutely.

No. You know what I mean? Well, first off, we talked about this with current. recently Slater, like the procession of coaches coming into, it's like a right of passage coming into Oklahoma City

playing them and then going in and grumbling about the officiating. Like it's, it happens like twice a week for the last three months. Yeah, there's like six straight Thunder games

where we're at ESPN right in some form of newsers or Mike Brown makes a comment. Steve Kerr makes a comment. Jalen Brown makes a comment. Yeah. Right. I think Chris Finch,

Chris Finch, you know, He sparked it for sure, yeah. The first fastest way to get Chris Finch in a bad mood is to, is to have him talk about Oklahoma City and Fowls. Well, I will say this, and I'm with you, Wendy, that a lot of this is OKC backlash. Usually when we get these close MVP votes is some sort of,

usually MVP is kind of, I won't say group think, because it's not quite group think, but I think in the space of us having these discussions all the time on podcasts and TV shows, you know, you wind up swung voters and everything, especially in the age of transparency. But usually the MVP vote is like controversial if it's close. Like the Russell Westbrook MVP, I'll stand on the table and say if Russell Westbrook

average 319 and 9, we would not have voted him MVP. We had an obsession with the number 10 and we cared about it so much that he did it the next two years. It was in. Yes. I mean, that was such a narrative award. I voted for Russ. Right.

And I was on. I covered the Thunder team that Durant was on. I went and covered the Warriors with Durant. and I was in the middle of that storm that was in the way it felt like he saved their franchise at the time. And I have to admit that somewhat swayed my thought process of valuable. Because right isn't that the whole thing of like value to a franchise? So it wasn't just the triple doubles. The triple doubles created the, created the story.

And you were close and you were there. The rest of the 125 voters or whatever the hell it was, they were obsessed with the triple doubles. Oh, he's going to be the first one to do it since Oscar. and then that created the narrative on top of the Durant stuff. And his team won 47 freaking games. We don't award MVP to players who win 47 games and don't get out of the first round. I'm saying that to say, usually when it's close, you have two worthy MVPs. I think like the Steve Nash, Shaquille, Niel 105, or Michael Jordan Caramalone in 97, even though Carmelon is a fraudulent MVP.

I think this one, however close it becomes, A, if Victor doesn't win it, win it, it's going to be so close that it's going to be undeniable that he wins it next year and he doubles up and this becomes like the Victor era. Secondarily, we've forgotten about Nicola Yokic being still like this incredible freaking mood. I haven't. So in the most recent thing that I did for TV this week, I had Yokic third and Luca, and Luca, fourth, which, you know, people in the studio and in the building rolled their eyes on these Lakers. Really? Really? Well, I mean, Yokic has put up absolutely jaw-dropping numbers.

He's still leading the league in rebounds and assists. People are like, you know, they're like, you know, Lucas third and assists in addition leading in points. I go, yeah, guess who's first? The last two games, Yokic has 37 assists and three turnovers, I think, or two turnovers, something like that. that. But I don't like doing that. I don't like pushing somebody down. That's what I think I hate.

Like saying that Jalen Brown is fifth on my ballot, like that's saying you're a first team, all-N-BA player. That's not, that's an ultimate compliment. I don't know. But yes, but I think it's a two-man race,

you know, and I will say this, I did go back and look at the Westbrook Harden race, because I remember that being like the, is that the closest recent one? That'd be the closest recent one? it wasn't really that close. It was like 60, in terms of first place, folks,

it was like 6729 or something or 6927. It wasn't super close. The closest one of my career was the Shaq Nash one. And I voted for now. I was young and stupid. Like, I don't, I'm not like, you got it right. You got it right. I just felt that Steve Nash literally changed the entire NBA.

Yes. To change the NBA. We, we, by and large, we get MVP. correct. There's, like I said, there's exceptions. Will we get it wrong? Since the media started voting in 1980, if you want to do trivia, I can name every MVP from 1980 to now I won't bore you with that. I'm learning about your trivia prowess. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah, I'm just a weird on that way. But by and large, with maybe I would say over the 45 years that we've been doing this, if my math is correct, there's maybe three in my book that we've gotten wrong. Okay. The Steve Nashville, Carl Malone,

over Michael Jordan in 97. I was in college. I can't be blamed. Russell, you can blame Jackie McMullen for a Sports Illustrated article where Carl Malone said, I'll never win MVP, blah, blah, blah, blah, and everybody felt sympathy. Jackie McBellon, we call her the legend on this podcast. I get it. That is also a good example of advocating for yourself and perhaps shifting. No, no, that's not advocating for yourself. You're whining that, oh, I'm the only going to give it to Michael Jordan.

There are different strategies of advocating. whining is one of them. My three-year-old son, that's the way he attempts to do that at times. AJ, shout out to AJ. Yeah, shout out. The second Carl Malone MVP was in the strike shortened or lockout short in 99 year that actually could have went to Alonzo Morning or Tim Duncan. And then the rest year in my book.

But the Steve Nash MVP years, I know people want to say Kobe should have won in an 06. Once again, a team that won, what, 46 games got knocked down the first round by Steve Nash. I have zero problems with how we've awarded things by and large over the past 45 years. So I remember, I thought, you know, Kobe was probably the best player in the league in 0506. He didn't win it. I mean, that was the Dirk here, right? I mean. No, that was Nash.

No, no. Dirk 107. Dirk 107. Dirk 107. And got not the first round. Kobe 108, right? Yep. So I remember thinking that Kobe was probably the next year.

the best player in 0-607. He didn't win it because his team didn't do well. And that was the year that the Mavericks won like 66 or something, right? Yeah, 67, yeah. And I remember in 2007-8, the year Kobe won it, I thought LeBron was actually the best player. Like, I thought Kobe should have won it in 07, really, and the LeBron probably should have won it in 08. And then LeBron did it win in a 09. But I think the only vote that I regret is, and I've said this before, and I've said this before,

is the vote that I cast in 2018. And I have to give, I have to go with, I have to acknowledge McMenneman here because in 2018, the James Hardin won, he won it overwhelmingly. He had 85 votes, and I think LeBron had 15 for first.

I think it was only two guys that got first place votes. I can't remember. Dave was hard advocating for LeBron. That was LeBron's last year in Cleveland. They had the fourth seed. Their defense was a joke all year. LeBron played all 82 games

and then had the greatest in my view probably the greatest playoff run of his career after that it was not dominant by the team whatsoever they won two seven game series it was the year that he took out Game one of the finals is like the most legendary

one of the more legendary performance in a loss which includes obviously the J.R. Smith moment and all that. Right and LeBron punches the whiteboard and fractures sure is his knuckle. That's also the year that he, the Raptors were the number one seed, and they spent the entire year,

like focused on getting the high seats so that if they played LeBron again, they could get home court. And LeBron swept him. And game three, he hits that running bank shot. At, basically, I think there was a tenth of a second left,

basically at the buzzer to beat him. And I remember, I went to the Raptors' locker room, like Kyle Lauer, we had a great year that year. Demar de Rosen had a great year. Gwen Casey won coach of the year. I remember going down to the Raptors locker room. I loved covering the Raptors.

That was a great team. And I remember the absolute face, the stone faces on Missai Ujiri and Bobby Webster, their front office leaders, their faces. Dwayne Casey, I think probably knew he was getting fired. DeMar de Rosen didn't know he was getting traded. But if you'd have told me when I was down in that locker room, that 12 months later, I would be covering the Raptors receiving the Larry O'Brien trophy, I'd have told you, get out of my face, stop messing around.

So things can change fast in the NBA, but I voted for Hardin that year. And he wanted going away. He had been close several years. There was one time, I can't remember how close he was the year before. But I was doing radio in a New York radio station. I was actually in the station. And I was, I did a radio hit. And it was late.

There was probably about this time of year. It was a little bit later in April. And I did a hit. And I went to the bathroom after the hit. And I'm in the bathroom and the producer sticks his head. And he goes, Brian, are you there? And I go, yeah? And he goes, hey, Daryl Morey is on with us next.

He heard you. you know, waiting for you and he wants to debate you about whoever I said it wasn't Harden was my vote. And he's like, Darrell wants to debate you on the air about why it's Harden. I was like,

let me finish going to the bathroom. Advocating for yourself. Shocker. The year before that was the Rush year. So then that, then the Hardin thing comes in 18. Okay, so I must have said I was, I did vote for Russ. So I must have argued for Russ.

And he wanted to debate me on live radio. I remember that. But anyway, LeBron's 2018 season might be his most remarkable year for a bunch of different reasons. And I regret not voting for. I've said this before. I regret not voting for LeBron in 2018, even though there was no way Hardin was not winning. But I do regret that vote. Well, you just said it.

His team finished fourth in a weak Eastern conference. Right. wasn't that also the year he was like really not trying defensively near the deadline as like a basically like go go change some stuff up type protest I would argue I would argue he wasn't trying offensively either basically he reduced his

he went from playing at a level 10 to like a level 8 and you could never prove it although I don't think it was denied you could never prove it, but it lasted for like seven to ten days or maybe it was like maybe five or six games. But the calves knew. So the calves agreed to trade basically a third of their team. And they told LeBron they were trading Isaiah Thomas.

And LeBron like decided to re-engage and he had this incredible game. And he hit a game winner at the buzzer to beat the Timberwolves. and I've talked about this before Isaiah runs out to like chest bump him and LeBron already knowing that Isaiah was going to be traded the next day like turned his body and like hip-checked Isaiah and like they like went flying

he's like nope I am not high-fiving you I remember that Minnesota yeah yeah yeah I remember that being part of like the reasoning for him not winning regular season MVP was that chunk of that season And I wish McMeneman was here because his argument then, and I assume his argument now, and I mean, like, I've had to admit that I, the more I've looked back on it, the more I recognized how incredible his 2018 season was. I didn't appreciate it in the moment. But certainly it was, you know, his playoff run was just insane. But McMeneman's point, I hate to put words in his mouth, but I think he said this publicly. So was that LeBron, doing that was a way to force the calves into improving their roster and that that it could be argued that since he couldn't ask for it and get them to trade. The reason they didn't want to trade anybody was because he hadn't signed an extension and they knew there was a chance he was

going to leave and Dan Gilbert didn't want to be left holding a roster that didn't have a future like happened the last time when he left. And so they were like, well, we're not going to trade all bunch of guys, but guess what? They ended up doing that. And Their team did improve, and they did make the finals. And, you know, Dave's argument was that what LeBron did actually help the Cavs improve. And so while it did maybe not be the most altruistic way of doing it, it did help the team. And therefore, it should not be looked at it as a negative, that it should have actually been looked as, you know, sort of not, you know, mainstream leadership. Passed the MVP dives today.

Deep, I mean, I know. We're so far off the BATs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wendy, so last one, Wendy, because we're just, we're just here. So if, so LeBron has four and you can make Yarmine for five, and not to say that he should have five, but if you were to give him a fifth, would it be 2018 or 2011? No, 2018, because 2011, legitimately, he did have a down year. His numbers backslid. If you, if you know, if you go look at the numbers, I mean, part of it was natural because Cohen to play with Wade and Bosch, but his numbers did backslide. And Derek Rose was awesome. And there were so many games that year where the bulls could have gone either way and Derek Rose carried him home. Like it was kind of like Shea, like how many, maybe not as much as Shea because, you know, everything's a little bit more, you know, higher production these days.

But he had many, many games where he was a difference-making player at the end of these games. No, once again, I think we get it right. By the way, I didn't have a vote that year. I did not have a vote that year. Well, I'd left Cleveland and I went to Miami and I was absolutely not established as a media member in Miami. And I was not regarded as a national media person. I was covering the heat. And, you know, there was established people in Miami.

And so I did not have a vote. So that year, like, I know, I mean, it's easy for me to say, I didn't have a vote. So I don't, I didn't, I didn't make a vote for LeBron or Derek. But I think I remember feeling like Derek was the appropriate winner. although you're right. If you ask LeBron, he should have won both years. Probably is what he would say. He thinks he should win every year.

Well, he probably thinks he should have at least three or four or more. That's insane. I'm sorry. That's legitimately insane. Because I put words in his mouth and then next thing you know. No, don't get in trouble. Don't hear from anybody. Let's talk board of governors.

But I think it's safe to say LeBron believes he should have something. more than four. And I believe 2011 he has indicated he thinks he should have won because of just the drama that he went through. And also the year he went back to Cleveland

in 2014-15. Really? Well, his numbers also backslid that year. But what I think, I'm not saying this is what LeBron thinks, nor am I saying this is what LeBron said. What I think is that

LeBron felt that his role as basically putting the roster together. He basically did the Kevin Love Trade. He basically told the Cavs, go get J.R. Smith. And then I think LeBron also felt he was basically partially coaching the team. He very publicly. That's part of like the Westbrook thing we were talking about earlier of like value to a franchise. He had a lot of value to that franchise. I'm not looking to take decade old.

pot shots at David Blatt, okay? But, like, you know, LeBron openly was admitting that he was changing plays. Yes, he did. And, you know, I wrote a book about this and many different ways that he undermined Blatt, which maybe he saw as he was coaching the team. He kind of thought, I was helping put the team together. I was helping coach the team. You know, what else am I supposed to be? executive in a year, coach of the year. Switch, quick thing with you. I think David Griffin, I don't want to say anything. David Griffin did a lot of maneuvering. All right.

Wait, Wendy, quick thing. Wait, quick thing about Blatt. I promise you, this is really quick. Did you ever notice whenever you had to talk to Blatt at a press conference, you would say your name and he would say it back to you? That was the weirdest thing ever. You would say, you know, Vincent Goodwill, blah, blah, blah. He'd say Vincent. Or our buddy Nick Prudell would say Nick Fredel, ESPN, and he would say Nicholas.

Like, he didn't say Nicholas. He said, Nick, you dope. Geez. Maybe she's trying to be friendly. He's trying to be personally. No, he was not friendly at all. He was a interesting cat. He took an adversarial position with the media. And I hope David is doing well. That's all I have to say. I hope he's doing well. It was a tough situation for everybody involved. There were good people on both sides. Is that okay? As long as you'll say, fine people on both sides.

All right. There was a owner's meeting yesterday. I don't know if you heard. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Adam Silver talked for 40 minutes about many things, mostly expansion. There'll be a lot of expansion talk in the coming months and years because it's going to be years. But I do want to say, Vince, that Adam Silver announcing that we're going to fix tanking and we're going to do it in the next six weeks. I was I was like wow like we're holding a meeting in in May and we will fix it in May. I was like wow, that's that's amazing. Congratulations.

Like congratulations on fixing tanking. Good job. And a lot of people ask me about it today. They wanted to talk about it all over ESPN. They were like, well, what did you think about what Adam Silver said? And I'm like, what's the plan? Am I allowed to see the plan before I offer an opinion? So I got to say, him like guaranteeing that time.

timeline was, I don't know, I thought that was actually one of the more surprising things. I knew Seattle and Vegas were getting expansion teams. That was not a surprise. Him doing that, Vince, was a surprise to me. It was funny. It almost feels like, because I wasn't, I was in Boston, so I wasn't able to see it, but I read the transcripts. It was his most, like, the strongest statement that he's made since banning Donald Sterling. Remember he stood on the, on the dais, and said, I am banning Donald Sterling. And then he paused, and he was like, four, life. That's what it, and it was like, that's what it read like full stop. And the fact that he's going, Adam never, the thing about Adam Silver, he never goes out and make statements like absolute

statements. Like he doesn't make statements absolutely unless he knows he has the votes, unless he knows for sure that something is coming to someone because he doesn't want to be, he's a politician, doesn't want to back himself into a corner. So the fact that he is saying this, and he said some stuff at Sloan, uh, Sloan conference in Boston. few weeks ago that indicated some of the same things. I think he does have a plan. I'm curious of what the plan is. I think he's going to go full radical.

I don't know what that exactly means, but whether it is something like point differential, because when you look at some of the scores on a night-to-night basis, you can't stop a team from not playing their guys. But if you disincentivize them losing by 30 to prove a point and maybe you tie lottery odds to point differential or my idea, which is you set the lottery odds at the 35 game mark so that everything that happens after that doesn't matter. Like you can't tank your way into a better lottery position in February, March, and April. Like, I think, I don't know if he's going to be that, but I presented that suggestion to him in close quarters before. And he wasn't necessarily,

he and Mike Bass weren't necessarily like, hey, that's a bad idea. You know what I mean? Like, that sort of thing. So I think he's going to do. something strong here. There's, there's been like 80 different ideas. He's probably going to do a handful of them, right? I don't think it's just going to be one little one. I think they're going to try to tweak the rules in several ways. We'll see which ones he lands on, which to Brian's point, we'll, you know, we could probably

judge the plan once it's laid out. But I do think the timeline that he kind of mentions important where you say mid-May, you know, teams need to make trades around the draft. Teams need to make big decisions in late July or late June, early. Lee July and you need to know the rules when you're making big moves, right? You need to know what type of like, you know, draft pick situation you have. So I do think, you know, learning the plan soon, as soon as possible will be important to the plotting of these front offices who may want to trade future picks and blah, blah, blah, you know, moving forward. Yeah, I mean, it's really, really hard to really know what to say until I see it. And I'm, you know, the thing about it is, it's like, over the last few months whenever somebody has said, here's my 11 point plan for tanking. I've kept scrolling or I've closed the window.

I'm not interested in reading everyone's plan. I'm not saying that their plans aren't great. I'm not saying that they're not smart people, wonderful people. What we can say, Brian, is that something is going to change. I think, that is,

that is absolutely clear. Do you have a suggestion? Wendy, do you have a big brain, Wendy thought? Yeah, I can do it in one sentence. I don't need an 11 point plan.

I can't tell you how he's going to do it, but I can tell you what to do in one sentence. What's that? Incentivize winning instead of losing. The end. In the words of Kanye West in the Kobe Bryant commercial, what the F does that mean, Brian Winhorse? Yeah, you're talking about people to call you by their name.

Isn't that what Kanye does? He calls people by first and less. Make it less beneficial to lose. that's what you're talking about. It means that... Does this mean Oklahoma City could get the first pick or something? If you're saying incentivized winning, are you saying put everybody in the draft lottery?

No, I don't think so. No, that's not going to happen. That's not realistic. Right. You know what I... The most important thing when you consider this is that, and this is what I always say to people, like, over the decades when people have, like, pitched me,

like, this is my idea for fewer games. This is my idea for, you know, three games. game series in the first round. This is my idea for this, this, and this. I go, remember, I don't care if it's the greatest idea in the history of mankind, you got to have 23 owners say yes. Any big thing like this, you need three quarters. So it can't be a vote that seven guys are going to say or eight guys or women are going to say no to. So, you know, that's it. But really the thing about it is, is that the teams are just doing what they're incentivized to do. And right now they're incentivized. They're heavily incentivized, I would say, to lose.

And so you're going to have to make a structure where they're incentivized to win. Vin, you know, this was a full tanking segment by Brian Wenthorst. I believe we were on the podcast where he declared this would never happen. And I've pretty much stuck to it. I mean, to a degree, you were like Adam, nothing. This is it. I think Jackson gave a ruling here. I've pretty much stayed away from talking about.

I think I did better than I thought I would do. I would put it that way. But this, but this was, you know, newsworthy. I said I wasn't going to talk about the actual, like, analysis. Strategies and what, you know, going through, like, the jazz is last week. You know, my one concern about Adam is that I think he's so online. He pays so much attention to what the peanut gallery says that sometimes there's like an overcorrection. I don't know how you necessarily overcorrect this.

Like maybe this is just me hoping, like, pie in the sky thing that he would consider, you know, something that I've said to him or one of the minions in the league office over the years. But I think the fact that he's spoken so strongly about it, I think he has some big-brained idea that he believes will pass. I'm very curious what the hell it is. Because some teams are just bad. Some teams are just bad and they ain't tanking. They're just bad because they bad. Well, that's one thing that Adam said. And I've heard teams, and I'm not going to say which teams, because I'm not looking to open this conversation. But I've heard a team or two split the baby or split the hair between the difference between

rebuilding and tanking. That, no, no, we're not tanking. We're rebuilding. Those bastards over there are tanking. And Silver referenced that in his talk yesterday. Look, the team closest to me, the team right down the road, the Sacramento King. entered the season attempting to at least, you know, make the play in. They had a bunch of veterans, like they weren't tanking.

They weren't actively trying to have as bad a season as possible. But they played themselves into a scenario where it was very obvious they weren't going to make the playoffs. And by March, it's like, yeah, Domonas, the bonus, who has a partially torn meniscus should probably get the surgery. Zach Levine, who has an issue with his hand, could he play through it? Certainly, but probably should get the surgery. Late in the year now, as they're playing these big games where, you know, It's like even if they are not a tanking franchise and every time Doug Christie or Scott Perry is asking a public setting about it, they're going to be very anti. We're not trying to lose tonight.

And they have won some games they strategically probably shouldn't have. Still, they're doing some type of tanking strategies because it's kind of obvious they should. Yet they would say, hey, we're not a tanking franchise. We didn't attempt to tank this year. Well, that's what I was going to say. I guess I would acquit the Kings of that because they went through a streak recently where they were. won five out of eight games. Yeah, six and five.

Big wins in some ways, you would say. And yes, because they beat the jazz disaster, disastrous win. They beat the nets. Yeah. Disasterous win. And by doing that, they have now moved out of the bottom three. And the bottom three have the same record, the same, not the same record, but the bottom three of the all the same odds.

So what you want to do is being the bottom three. I think it's bottom four, a flatten. Bottom four. It's bottom four. Yeah. Oh, are they in the bottom four? The bottom four? I believe they've leaped to five, but, you know, there's been some wins lately where, you know, like the wizards smoke the jazz yesterday, which was something.

And the Kings... Well, the Wizards are safely in the zone. Okay, Sack, no. No, the top... It's still very good for the fourth, but the top three have the same odds. Well, one of the main things, like, you know, the Kings were in pole position to be the worst. team in the league. And now, Brian, we are getting deep into a tank conversation. But the Kings were in pole position for the worst record in the league. Jackson's going to use it against me.

And then they won six of 11 and they leap to, you know, whatever, fourth or fifth. And the problem with that is when you are the worst team in the league, you do have the flat in lottery odds where you have the same odds as, you know, two, three, four. But if you don't get one of those top four lottery positions, you have a guaranteed fifth pick. And in this draft, if you have the worst record in the league at the end there, you have a guaranteed top five pick where now a team like the Kings could backslide to six, seven, eight, where, you know, if they had stayed a firmer course, they could have had a guarantee. This is the last thing I'm going to say, but go ahead, then. No, it's not.

What happens when the Milwaukee Bucks get the first picked? Well, then basketball. They can. You know what I mean? No, because it goes to the Atlanta house is where it will go. We'll go to the Atlanta house. The best of the Bucks can do is get the second pick. That's when people will really scream conspiracy.

If the Bucks get the first and the Pelicans get the second, so the Bucks get the second. pick. It's like you have to doctor up to, you know. Nobody's going to think that they're going to conspire to help Milwaukee. No offense to Milwaukee. Hey, but to Vinny's point, yeah, that would believe in the conspiracies more than any other sports fan like block ever. I'll tell you this. If the Bucks do get the first pick, you're going to look at two, there will be two stories of that. Number one, wow, the Atlanta Hawks, who, you know, look awesome, by the way, had a huge win in Detroit last night, have this rising young core will then get who, Darren Peterson, you know, AJ DeBance or whoever.

That'll be interesting. And also, man, how are we going to look at that Derek Queen trade for the Pelicans? Well, if that happens. Let me just, this is the last thing I want to say on it. And then I'm going to end the podcast. This is the last 10 games for the top teams in the lottery. Indiana lost one in nine. Brooklyn, one in nine.

Washington. One in nine. Utah, two and eight. Dallas, two and eight. Memphis, one in nine. Sacramento, five and five. Bro. Hey.

And by the way, and they fall in multiple positions. So, um. Yeah, and like the Rosen had like a huge night where he's playing like 30. Maybe they will, maybe they will jump up. Maybe they will jump up. Finish the job. Yeah. I was going to, I was going to give you a warrior segment of like,

like the dark times in San Francisco, but we can, one second. We can push that. We'll have, we'll have, uh, yeah, there's still going to be dark times next week. I'm sorry about Moses movie. You know, you know what sucks about that more than anything. Not only the fact that he obviously has his terrible injury, but that he's a free agent. No, he's not.

Oh, he's not. He's got one. He's got one of a three year $39 million. Oh my God. That's total brain fart. You know, that's, that is a good. Jackson, don't make me sound stupid. Thank God he signed that contract. There you go.

I totally forgot he signed the extension. That actually makes me feel better. Yeah, it personally is good for Moses Moody. But, you know, when I'm talking about these dark times for the Warriors, they now have two players under contract next season. One making 58 million, one making 13.9. Both of their starting wings are going to be out, I would say, half to a majority of next season.

And next season is like, you know, this huge, like, you know, can they have this final grasp with this deaf career? and if they try to rearrange the roster and it's just that's that's part of the story that is developing within the season and again we don't need to get into another segment on step's knee injury although that is a very important thing like where is his you know later stages of his career going but this really disastrous turn in their season is really starting to impact next season in a bad way i know that this will provide absolutely no solace but i'm going to say it anyway this is why when your team is able to through great management,

great players, great fortune, go to six finals in a decade. Actually, what was it, six finals in eight years or nine years? Yeah, yeah, five straight, right? You have to cherish that incredible run because the amount of things that have to go your way to do that is, this is what I'm saying, like this is why I think LeBron, I'm going to eight finals in a row is just absolutely incredible in this day and age. Jackson's final comment on the matter, if the podcast is a car, we have to understand that, a metaphor. Sometimes the road of storylines have forced us through some tanking states, but we try to avoid them.

Jackson keep producing, don't make content. That's what I would say. Jackson actually is just over the moon. You want to know why? Because the Syracuse... Yeah, they stayed in the family. In the family. In the family.

That never burned to. Yeah. He's so excited. He's already cleared. Next year, he will not be available on this date. He will be at the Syracuse Final Four. Okay. Or I mean, sweet 16.

At least a Sweet 16. Not the Final Four. That would be big for them, too. That's not get ridiculous. He says we'll do a live pod in Syracuse. Isn't that Canada at this point? Listen, my guy in Syracuse, Alex Klein, the GM, got fired. So that was my connection in Syracuse.

I don't know anybody else from Syracuse. I know none of them. Nobody else I've ever met has ever been involved in Syracuse. Never, never, never. All right. Thank you so much to Vince. Thank you so much to Slater. Thank you much to Slater's backyard.

Thank you to Jackson and Tucker. and our other producers. Thank you for listening and watching The Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.