Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Coaches Frustrated With SGA + Mark Cuban’s Biggest Regret In Dallas + LeBron’s Future

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss some coaches expressing frustration with the whistle Shai Gilgeous-Alexander has been getting. Then, the guys tackle Mark Cuban’s comments on his biggest regret with selling the Mavericks. Next, ESPN’s Dave McMenamin joins to break down LeBron’s future including where he may play next season. Finally, we dish out the Cojones Factor Player of the Month and give a shoutout for an important cause. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the HOOP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon, joining us from New York City, Tim Bonteps.

Hello, everybody. By the way, I'm wearing a U-Bet hoodie, a guy Ryan Rucco sent it over. We know it's established on the pod that we like free merch, so there it is, free merch from our guy, Ryan Rucco. I have not gotten mine yet. He prioritized Bontems, I think. That's right, as he should, as he should.

Ryan Rucco calls games for the NBA and WMBA and this college too, right? Yeah, he's the voice of all women's basketball. Yeah. Women's basketball officiato for ESPN, in addition to his NBA duties and nets duties. His trademark is when a shot goes down, he goes, you bet. You bet. But my preference is when he's considering a you bet, when the player misses, he just goes, no. Bond temps for three?

No. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, just back from Oklahoma City where he had a lovely little two-game road trip is Ben McMahon. Howdy, partners also fresh back off of a lunch on the Mavs dives, the Mavs executives, no whining, but dining, local media types and, you know, chit-chatting. I hadn't heard anything that Cuban had said recently, but it was pleasant to see folks. Is that thought that was an off-the-record luncheon? There was an on-the-record portion at the end where it was clarified that gee whiz, Cuban had said something publicly recently. That's news.

All right, we'll get to that. Okay. I would like to ask for something. I ask for so little. That's not true. This could be granted. This should be easily granted. We're going to have a grown-up conversation now.

And that grown-up conversation is going to be about Shea-Gildedis Alexander and Fowles. And because you just experienced this for the last 48 hours, McMahon, the Thunder are going to play many, many big games over the next two months in all likelihood. And I would like to have a conversation about what we are going to see and what's going on. And I would like to invite you, wherever side you are on this discussion, to step out of your feelings and your assumptions. and let's have a discussion as adults who watch professional basketball at a reasonably level of intellect,

as you would be if you listen to this podcast. Can we all agree? You know McMahon's on the pod, right? Hey, hey, I'm not live tweeting my thoughts on calls during games. I will say that McMahon, I liked the questions that you asked to Mark Dagenalton Shagg after the game against the Pistons, where you invited them to make an MVP case. Oh, I think they liked them too because they liked, oh, you know, those oaky folks, they like those high roads.

They like those high roads, baby. All right. We're going to be adults. There's bridges in Oklahoma City. There's no silver. This is one of, you know, Sam Presti has like five amazing quotes. Like, you know, I'm not being facetious like that are awesome. And I'll never forget that one like three years ago.

There's no silver platters at Oklahoma. which, you know, I get what he's saying. There are silver platters in Oklahoma. Yes, there are. His point is that that's what they serve when they serve McMahon at the goat. They bring his IPA on a silver platter. No IPAs. All right.

Well, I don't know what you drink, whatever you drink. There ain't water. All right. Anyway, Mike Brown with the Knicks and J.B. Bickerstaff, although McMahon Bickerstaff didn't really, he kind of took a little bit of the high road. He didn't really go in on the ref. I mean, honestly, Mike Brown and J.B. Bickerstaff,

both of their comments were very similar. Also, both of their interactions with the officials were very similar, which I had a front row seat in both these games sitting at the score table right behind the visiting coach and doing my best to eavesdrop on some of those conversations. But they both credited Shea for, essentially being a master falabater.

And, you know, they, I think they both said, hey, it's something along the lines of, it's a skill, it's a talent. He's operating within the rules. I think they both might use the words if he's, you know,

something along the lines of he's mastered, how to manipulate the rules. Nobody is accusing Shea of doing anything unethical. to use a word that, you know, has been bounced around. That is a grown-up. I like hearing that because I didn't see all of J.B.'s comments,

but I like hearing that because that's what I am encouraging the basketball community writ large to do, is act like a grown-up. And listen, neither of them were thrilled with the whistle, just to be clear. Shea shot more free throws than the opposing teams in both of those games, both OKC wins. OJB at one point is yelling at Scott Foster. He's allowed to miss too. You know, there were, like there were times where he was saying, hey, he's driving the basket like anybody else.

That's marginal contact for anybody else. You're sending him to the line. You know, so there was that argument. And then one thing that opposing coaches really do harp on with the refs with Shea is the arm bar, the push-off, the stiff arm sometimes. if you want to call it, which J.B. lobbied and lobbied and lobbied, and they blew the whistle on that on what would have been a go-ahead shot with four seconds remaining regulation. And I asked J.B. about that half the game. I was like, yeah, they made the right call. Yes, it was not an arm bar in that particular case. It was not an arm bar. That was a push-off. It is perfectly legal. And it is a

a skill to be a physical offensive player who uses your shoulder to create space. Shea's a master at that. Lucas outstanding at that. You know, basically every guard who's able to score in the paint and in the mid-range excels at that. I think Shay's as good as there is. Now, that's the shoulder. The difference is when you get that arm extended, then that should be an offensive foul. Shea usually does a good job of not extending the arm.

He got away with it in the biggest shot in the NBA finals, you know, game four at the end there, when they needed that bucket to avoid going down 3-1 in the finals, he did get away with it on that one. He didn't get away with it with four seconds left in regulation. Right. Okay. So, Bontems, just this is what I'm saying. The, what Shea does, especially at the end of games, okay, when he comes in with about six-ish minutes to go in the fourth quarter, the thunder need baskets. they go to him at the top of the key, and sometimes they run pick and roll,

sometimes they run straight isolation, but Shay goes to this move. And he goes through it the whole game, but it's particularly late in the game. So as we go into the playoffs, this is what's going to happen. He can do it with either arm, but he particularly is good at it I've seen with his left arm.

The hand is in a fist. The arm is parallel to the court, and he uses it to change speed on his opponent. In a lot of ways, it's sometimes to decelerate, sometimes it's due to create space. And we can debate about whether this should be called an offensive foul. It's something that may be debated whether it should be called an offensive foul in the future. But I'm telling you, they did not call this as an offensive foul in October. They did not call it as an offensive foul in December.

They're not calling it in March, and they're probably not going to call it in May and June. Okay. And many other players know this and use the same. same move. It is routine in the NBA for a guy to use that arm bar to create separation and in a lot of cases to change speed. What I mean by changing speed is that they can sometimes use that to decelerate. A player can drive into somebody, use the arm bar, he can slow down, and the player he's defending can keep going. And that's how space is created. And when that happens, it really looks like a push off. But sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's literally,

just him using it as a brace that he can slow down with it. Bon Temps, this is, regardless of whether you want to believe it is a foul, not you, but the Royal U, they're not going to call it, okay? Can we all understand they're not going to call it? If the arm's not extended. It's arms not extended and the hand is not being used, right? Because on the play for the fifth foul, he was using the hand. In the case of Michael Jordan, the famous where he moved Russell out of the way,

which is cemented in the jazz Wi-Fi, isn't it, McMahon? Yeah. The Wi-Fi at the media center at the... I haven't been there for a while, but it was last time I was there, yes. Jordan pushed off. Isn't that what it is? Something like that. Anyway, Bontemps, like, you have any problem with anything I've said so far?

Me personally? No. I don't. Okay. Well, not just personally, like professionally as well. No, I don't, yeah, I don't disagree with anything you said. No. Okay. And by the way, Luca fans don't want that called. Brunson fans don't want that cold. Jason Tatum, Jalen Brunson, Kauai Leonard, Janice is hurt,

but Janice Sennikoupo, all these guys operate the same move. I asked my name McCutcheon about it in October at the officials meeting, and he, you know, disagree. I mean, I said, I think this is a huge problem and something that the lead should look at, and he didn't think it was something they really should have as part of their points of emphasis this year. I'll be curiously if they do next year.

But yeah, I mean, it's not like it's only Shea that does it by a long shot. And I don't know, I just really enjoyed Shea coming in and getting to his spots and not hitting the rim on any of those jumpers. Like, yeah, he got fouled some. He also came in and immediately banked three shots in a row and got exactly to where he wanted to and instantly erased a seven point deficit almost by himself, which, you know, is why he has won a title and might win another and has an MVP and might win another. But the Cade Cunningham, by the way, who was hurt last night, also does the same thing. All the great players have figured out this is a way to create more space and more room to operate on offense. And, you know, the league has in general shifted towards a more physical style the past couple of years. It's why we've talked a lot about these small guards, you know, the Trey Young's and John Moranza of the world, having more issues than in the past because more physical play is allowed.

And what's the through line of all these guys we're talking about? I mean, Jalen Brunson's not tall. The rest of these guys are all tall. and all these guys play with physical force. And they all know the rules inside and out. They all know exactly how to manipulate the rules inside and out. And it's why they're all wildly successful players. And it's why, to your point, Brian, this is a topic we'll be talking about a lot in the playoffs.

And it's why they all use this move because it's super effective. It's certainly not one guy that's figured it out. Well, and the way Mike Brown put it, and again, Bigger Staff's comments were pretty similar, was Shea is the best in the league in terms of gamesmanship. And I said, what makes him the best there? He said, his body control is amazing. Not only that, he knows when to attack, how to attack, and who to attack. Then he still has the awareness of where everybody is on the floor.

And when he goes into his shot, he does a fantastic job of contorting his body. And if he feels any contact at all, he knows how to twitch his body or whatever. It's just the gamesmanship to get the call. That's exactly right. And so you can say that you don't like that a player does that. That's totally fine. You can say that you don't think that player should be rewarded. That's an opinion.

That's totally fine. But I'm telling you that most of the time, of course not all of the time, but most of the time, they are fouls. Well, and if they're not, then you're going to see opposing coaches use their challenges. Right. But I'm just saying, like, people go crazy. And most of the time, when you watch the replays, they're fouls. Well, and here's the thing. You know, I've asked Shea about this.

he kind of shrugs and says, that's a conversation that's out of my control. I'm not worried about it. And he'll tell you the players that I grew up watching and loving and studying were great at getting to the foul line. You know, Michael Jordan was great at getting to the foul line.

The best scores over the history of the league have all been great at getting to the foul line. And, you know, this foul merger, a free throw merchant has become like an insulting term. It's like, well, you want to be a lot of, on a guy who's great at avoiding getting fouled? What the hell sense does that make? Well, he's also a hit clutch 18 footer in the fourth quarter merchant.

Well, and we do have Cajonix factor coming up later. Okay. Not even at the end of the month. Oh, my God, this is amazing. And the other thing is, yeah, you remembered this time. And the other thing is, too, if they change the rules this summer and say, hey, we're going to get rid of this arm bar. You know what? Jay and Jason Tatum.

and Kate Cunningham and Luca Donchich and Victor Wemniama and all these guys, we'll all figure out other ways to get to the foul line and we'll still get fouled and we'll still get free throws because they're all really smart. They know the rules inside and out, and they know how to manipulate the rules. Just like to go back to the other day when we were talking about the tanking stuff, once there's new tanking, once there's new anti-tanking rules in place, whatever they are, guess what? All the teams will sit there and they will figure out if there's a way to manipulate them and half.

So if they get in a situation where they can, they will, because that's what people do. when the rules are set up. They find ways to figure out how to use the rules of their advantage. This is what happens everywhere, not just in basketball, not just on the court. And it's what's going to happen with this.

And some of the conversation around Shea, I just find to be very strange because I love watching the guy play. Like the final five, six minutes of that game in regulation was a master class. Like he comes in, he's immediately banging all these shots. He doesn't hit the rim.

He makes a great play to hit Jalen Williams, who by the way isn't a really, really underrated good player. Like, fills every role they need him to. Sometimes doesn't play. Arkansas, Jalen Williams. Arkansas, Jalen Williams. Sometimes he doesn't play.

Sometimes he'll play 28 minutes and score 25 points. You know, like, makes a ton of big plays for him. And he just figures out a way to win all these games and knows exactly the right play to make all the time. It's awesome to watch. It's funny because there's been a lot of whining and crying from, I would say, a lot from casual fans, frankly, about all they do in the NBA shoot threes. If you love the mid-range game, you should have the Thunder on League pass watching Shea

every single night. He is one of the best mid-range shooters in the history of the game. The guy shooting 55% on the floor and a large, large percentage of his shot diet are off-dribble mid-range jump shots. I know that this little public service we just try to perform will fail miserably. It'll be popular in San Antonio. I think they'll love it in Los Angeles. Well, I just, you know, I'm these particular last two nights where I thought Shea was terrific.

You know, I mean, do I prefer it like a couple weeks ago when he played the warriors and did that like incredible escape dribble to his right and hit that three point? or would I prefer him to win games like that as opposed to winning games of the free throw line? Yes, I would prefer to do that. That was the quote was, I have the answers. I just wait for the questions. That's where it's spawned.

No, that was a Denver game when it was a very similar shot. Oh, sorry. It was the next day. He had a lot of jump shots in this game last night. It's not like that. He also hit that exact same shot. It just got waved off with the game online. That's right.

Well, it wasn't the exact same. That was a foul. That was, I mean, actually, I give the referee, Ransom, I can't remember how you pronounce his first name. I think it's Fenezy. I give him credit for making that call. That took guts. I think that was the correct call.

She was called for another offense foul earlier in the game, and it was a hook. Scott Foster called it, and I was able to hear very clearly what J.B. said on that one. He said, at least somebody has some bleeping courage. Well, Shea does. I will say this. He does get fouled, but he also is not. known to hook. He will get in there and do the hand fighting and he'll hook. And, you know, if he hooks, they should call it. Again, so will every single other great offensive player in the league.

I agree. It's not just like a one person thing. Right. But you know that we're going to have a bunch of games in this playoffs come down to these moments. Of course, but that will be the case, whether it's, if the Lakers and Spurs are playing, it'll be the same thing. Like, all the great players do all the same things. It's just, it is what it is. The Luca leads the league in free throws and the officiant of Luca also tends to dominate the conversation about him, but it's about how much he gets screwed by the rest. What's the over, yeah, what's the over under on when Luca gets his 17 technical? Will it be against the Cavs tonight, the recording us before the game?

Like we said, it's a freebie, man. Like, go all out. I suspect he'll get attack against the Cavs, but that's just a guess. We'll see you from right tomorrow. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Okay, so I didn't really think that this was news, but ended up as a headline written by you on our website, Ban McMahon. I wasn't thrilled about that, but it's a story people are talking about. Go on. Okay.

Well, you talk. There's a story about Mark Cuban that you wrote on our website. It's on the front page of ESPN.com, which probably means it will get one million-plus views. So what was this story? Yeah, and there was this podcast clip, and I'll be honest with, I got to look up what the exact podcast was. It's not a sports podcast, I don't believe. Anyways, and so there's a clip that came out yesterday at some point during the day where Cubans, the quote that has gotten the most attention is when Cuban says, I don't regret selling the team. I regret selling the team to those people.

And I mean, I don't regret selling. I regret who I sold to. I made a lot of mistakes in the process. I don't leave it at that. This was on the Intersections podcast. That clip came out yesterday, podcast published today. And, you know, I wasn't shocked that he said that

because I'll be honest with you, Cuban said that to me many, many times. And I've always said, Mark, if you want to talk about that on the record, I'll write it. But if you want to, like, complain about it off the record and, like, dude, that's your problem.

And he decided to say it on the record. He didn't give it to me. Now, I might have had some different follow-up questions, perhaps that this has something to do with the, might be right about that. The platform that he chose. And so, okay. And listen, and then this comes on the heels of this story that Mark Stein had.

I don't remember exactly when it was. Was it right around the All-Star break, I believe? So anyways, I don't remember that last month sometime. where it's like Cuban and this group of mystery investors are trying to put together a plan to buy back the Mavericks. And then Cuban shot that story down to the Dallas Morning News a couple of days later. And listen, I don't like getting into the business of guessing

who one of our colleagues or one of our peers' sources are or what their sourcing is. But I can just tell you, people close to Patrick DuBond, the governor of the Mavericks are pretty sure that Mark Cuban leaked the story in the first place. So it was put to me. They said, Mark Cuban is one hell of an arsonist and a firefighter. And so, like, look, Cuban sold the team. And now he's saying he sold it because there was, you know, the emotional.

He's given like five or six answers on this. I'm not sure that any of them are credible. The emotional stress. He didn't want to pass down his kids. Well, he has said that before. I said that before. The reason Mark Cuban sold the team, and this, he said on the record the day the sale went through, is because as a mere middle class billionaire, now I'll put those words in quotes, as a mere middle class billionaire,

he could not afford to fund an NBA contender. The Mavericks hadn't paid the luxury tax since they won a championship. You know, Jaylon Brunson got away in part because the Mavericks won't complete cheapo. Cuban won't complete cheapo, also because they drastically mis-evaluated them. And so, but then, you know, there was this Cubans was at. that he was going to control basketball operations. He's still adamant that was part of the, it wasn't in writing. It wasn't in any of the language that, you know, has been suggested to me was pulled out that what I saw, the language that was supposedly removed from the contract, just said he was allowed to have a seat in the room. Now, you know, in Cuban's mind, a seat in the room. Well, why wouldn't I be in charge? I'm the smartest guy in here, you know. But that's not the- You can just have a seat in the room on this podcast. Exactly. That's not the way these things work. But my point is this. Look, things have blown up since Cuban sold. the team, Patrick Dumont drastically screwed up by letting Nico Harrison, and Cuban's now saying, and Jason Kidd, by the way, Trey Luca Donchich, okay, and Dumont has to wear that, he has to own that.

He had to, you know, he's still in the process of trying to clean that up. But here's the deal. How did Nico Harrison get in that position in the first place? Did Patrick Dumont, was that, was that Patrick Dumont's guy? Or who hired him? Do anybody remember? I believe Mark Cuban hired him. Oh, that's right. How did he get those titles? Who gave him? those. I believe Mark Cuban gave him those too. Damn, that's right. That's weird. And Cuban said, yeah, but I've never meant for him to have autonomy. I never meant for him to

actually do the jobs. Those, I was going to do him. He was just, I just wanted his relationships. You created the situation that blew up your face. Like, we're supposed to play violins and listen to you cry? Give me a break. Well, he also,

was this the same podcast where he also said that, you know, again, something that's been interesting, that Jason Kidd was involved in the Luca trade? And listen, we, I have reported that J. Kid was absolutely frustrated with Luca Donchage. I cannot sit here and tell you straight up that I know for a fact that J. Kid was part of pushing Luke out the door. I damn sure suspect it.

I have written as much. I have said as much. I can't tell you that for a fact. I don't know that Mark can't either because Mark was very very much. very, very intentionally completely boxed out of the decision-making process. But my belief there is he is probably right. And why is he airing that now? Do you think this will help with his intent to buy back the shares of the team?

He knows he's not buying it back. It's going to go the other way. Adelson and Dumont families can buy 20% more of Cuban share, get them down to 7%. That's going to happen. And Cubans frustrated because he thought he was going to get back in at least the room in terms of, you know, basketball decision making. And Dumont kind of said, you know, like, Dumont listened to him as far as like the lobbying to fire Nico and there was a meeting where Cuban was in the room. And then Cuban realized, damn, I'm really not going to have any say.

Like, they really don't want to hear what I have to say. So Cuban's mad. He feels like he got his toy taken away. Yeah, Cuban's having a temperate. And I don't really care what Mark Cuban has to say. I just really don't. Like, no disrespect to Mark Cuban. He had a great 20-year run on the Mavs and won a title and, you know,

become a hugely famous and successful business fan. And, like, that's all great. But he doesn't own the Mavericks anymore. I don't care about his thoughts on any of these things. And why doesn't he own the Mavericks anymore? Because he sold them. He sold them to somebody else. He made the decision to sell them.

That's right. He sold the team. I don't care what he has to say about the Mavericks. I don't really care about any of these things. I don't really need to hear more rehashing of the Lucidot's trade. It's now in the rearview mirror. It doesn't matter anymore. Like, what's done is done.

And what matters now is what the Mavericks do to have a front office to lead them going forward, whether they keep the current crew or they go hire somebody new to do that. Was anything said about that today, McMahon? So you have this lunch. It's Rick Welts and. Ethan Kasson, who, you know, the, I forget the exact titles, but like the two top business side executives, you know, Rick Welts, Hall of Famer.

Basically, he was the CEO. I think he's still the CEO. Getting the arena done is his primary thing. And Ethan's, I think he is the president now, came over from the Minnesota Timberlores. Anyways, so it's like a little informal thing. And then there's not on-record session. And Ethan's up there.

Poor guy's been there like seven months. Never worked for Cuba. and whatever. And they're like kind of saying, oh, yeah, it's a great partnership between Cuban

and Dumont, blah, blah, blah. And it was Mike Ducey with Fox 4. He basically said, well, how does that square with Cuban's comments? I didn't regret selling the team,

but it regrets who he sold them to. And poor Ethan, it was like, it was like some of these politicians these days when things were going viral. Oh, I hadn't seen that. Didn't cross my desk.

And I got to admit, I burst it out. a burst out laughing at that one. Oh, I just didn't know if they had updated on the timing for maybe hiring replacement that Bontem's referred to. Oh, I'm sorry. I was dozing off because I was. Those guys are not, those guys are not going to be making that decision.

So what they're saying, what people are saying, pretty critical draft, need a guy in place for the draft process, not just a draft pick. And the offseason and for agency and deciding what to do with Kyrie Irving and the rest of the roster. Like, they got a ton of decisions to make across the board. It's a hugely important summer. They got to nail the draft pick wherever it lands. They got to figure all this stuff out.

And that's what matters. Like, the Lukatja's trade doesn't matter anymore. Like, they got Cooper flagged. They're going to get another high pick. Like, you know, that's what matters is what do they do going forward. So I don't really need to hear Mark Cuban rehashing this stuff. And I don't really need to hear anything from Eric Cuban at all because he's not the one deciding who's going to be running the team. That's what matters.

Speaking of the trade, I thought was funny. Rui Hachamura, the Wizards were in L.A. on Monday. And he said, I forgot the Anthony Davis played for the Wizards. He's like, I was surprised I looked down there and I saw AD down there.

I was like, well, he hasn't played for him yet. Well, he hasn't played yet. By the way, where I got distracted and tuned out bond temps,

which also is just kind of a natural reaction, I was replying to a text from a former Maver, I'll just say. And the question was, what is Cuban trying to do? Stay relevant?

All right, we are now joined by ESPN's LA-based reporter Dave McMeneman. Hello, Dave. How are you? Thanks for joining us. I'm doing well. Happy to join you both. Hey, before we talk about the story that you and Bon Temps published on Tuesday, I want to talk about what happened at the Laker game the other night. I heard about this. So, all right, I know nothing about collectibles. I know nothing. Our guy Mack 10 does, though.

Yeah, well, he does. He's like my go-to guy, frankly. That's what I mean. He does. So I'm standing, so I'm like an hour before the game, and I'm standing on the court, and I was actually talking with Rob Polinka. And this guy comes up to me. He's got court-side seats, and he's like, hey, check out this card. He shows me this card. And it's a LeBron James rookie card, apparently. Actually, Dave, I don't want to be. So anyway, he showed me two cards. One of them was a Kobe card. One of them was a LeBron card. I assume this is going to be a window card story. Windows trading card. No, no, no. High value purchase.

And so he tells me what these cards are worth. I was gobsmacked. I walked into the media room and I saw Dave. I told Dave and he's like, I got to see these things. We go back out. All right, Dave, what did this guy have? Because I don't know what I was talking about. Okay, so it's an upper deck exquisite.

It's a high-end product, 2003, 2004. Back then, a box of that product probably cost anywhere from 2 grand to 5 grand. Oh, wow, okay. And the idea is like every... Wait a second. When you bought it at the time? I didn't buy this. The product at the time.

No, no, no. I'm asking. So in 2003, that box cost $2,000 to $5,000 for how many cards? I don't know. Not many cards. Maybe 50 cards. The idea is... Holy moly.

There's this super ion product that exists. And that was around the time when it first became a thing where every single, card in the box, you pull is either numbered or as an autograph or has a relic, which would be like a piece of a sneaker, a piece of a jersey, et cetera, et cetera. And this one had a piece of a jersey, right? This one had a piece of a jersey. So, LeBron James RPA. So rookie, rookie card.

P is patch and the A auto. So LeBron James RPA numbered to 99, PSA 10 graded a perfect card. With autographed, right? Autograph, yeah. It's the A for the autograph, yeah. And so only about 60 or so of the 99 have shown up in the 23 years since that product came out. And it's kind of his most desirable rookie card. And this guy's holding in his inside pocket and sitting court side.

He took a great photo on Instagram where he's holding up the card and you see LeBron James behind the card on the court still playing. So he told me this gentleman, I have no idea what's true. I mean, he's a very nice guy. He told me he paid $600,000 for it. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's about right. There's one on eBay currently going for a million dollars. I'm sorry, Bontemps. We went on and on about trading cards.

Oh, it's fine. This is Dave's one of days very favorite subjects. It's not really. It's like a very, very, very side hobby, but I know about it. It's one of day's favorite subjects. Yes, you do. Anyway, I didn't know. He knew all about this exquisite thing.

couldn't relate to this. I still can't get over that it costs $2,000 to $5,000 for a pack of 50 cards 20 years ago. How about this guy just walking around with $800,000 with the cards on? That's the wild. I mean, that's the choice. It's sweeping the nation, though. It's very popular again. Yeah, I was with the Pelicans.

Sweeping the nation. I was with the Pelican staff a couple weeks ago. They were going to the shop in Beverly Hills by their hotel. Jake LaRavia, every city we go to, he's finding a card shop. Do you think Jake LaRavia has any exquisite cards? Bet he's got a one-on-one. I bet, yeah. I will just say this was front row mid-court at the Laker game,

so there probably was a bunch of people who had stuff on them that were worth a million dollars or more in value. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right, sorry. Bontemps and McManaman had a story that ran on Tuesday. What is next for LeBron James, basically looking into. where he could be next year

when he, for the first time, since 2018, will be an unrestricted free agent. And this is the first time in his career he's been playing where he doesn't have an option on the contract. He's always had a player option on this contract. I guess they had his team option. Sorry, story time.

When LeBron was a rookie, you know, back then, you signed a four-year contract, and the fourth year was a team option. And now in the contracts, year three and year four are team options. But back then, year three was a team option or year four was a team option. So I guess technically that he had a team option. Anyway, after his rookie season when he won rookie of the year, like at the exit interview, like Jim Paxson told me this story, as like sort of, hey, we are so happy with the way your rookie season,

went keep it up. They picked up his option for his fourth year. So like, you know, so he was a rookie in three, four, five, five, six. So they picked up his 2006-seven contract option in like the spring of 2004. They're like, hey, LeBron, here, here's the, here's the piece of paper. Your contract option is picked up. Bontemps, you think it's possibly the earliest contract pickup in, in NBA history? Probably up there, I would think. All right. Here we are again. I'm way down the story timeline. So, Bontemps,

this story, you guys put this together. Why don't you take us through, you and Dave take us through this. I'll shut up for a little bit. Go ahead, Dave. I mean, listen, Tim,

we talk to people all the time, NBA games, whether it be coaching staff members, agents, scouts, whatever, everyone has been talking about what LeBron's going to do.

It comes up nightly, if you're at a game, not just a Lakers game, just had a game around the league. And so Tim and I got to put together some of the conversations that we've had with these people and tried to put our best kind of sense of organizing that information to give readers a sense of where LeBron could be going and the factors that will determine that decision. And so right off the bat, he needs to determine what's going to play or not. And it seems like his intention is to play. then he's got to decide how much money he wants to play for

and when he's going to make that decision whether he's going to play or not because if he waits too long, waits into August, I think a lot of teams will have their rosters already kind of settled and there might be less options for him then. And then, you know, Tim, how about you tell us some of the teams that people are talking about?

Now Dave is hosting. Yeah, no, look, I think if you go back to the summertime time. And when Rich Paul put out the, I don't know if it's fair to call it, infamous statement, but statement along with announcing that they were picking up the player option for this season, since that moment forward, there's been discussion about where LeBron is going to play next year. And today's point about the timing, this really is the first time, I don't know, you would know this better than me, Brian, but probably since LeBron was in elementary school

or middle school at the latest, that the basketball team he was on was not centered around LeBron James and what LeBron James is going to do in the future. Certainly every team I've ever known him to be on was centered around him. So it makes for a unique situation and it's why it's been such an interesting talking point in the league.

And yeah, like we went and talking to people. We came up with several teams. Do you want me to run through all them and then we talk about them, Brian, or do you want to do them one at the time? How would you like to do it? You can run through them. Just run through them. So the teams that we had come up in conversation with people, obviously one would be staying with the Lakers. Another would be going across town and playing for the L.A. Clippers, staying in the same house.

Could potentially go up the coast and play with Steph Curry and Draymond Green and the Golden State Warriors. could go back to Cavs Corner, Northeast Ohio, have a nice storybook ending there, could come to New York and do the long, anticipated stint with the Knicks and finish his career at the Garden. And one, I think, pretty intriguing option

that has come up in conversations I've had with people, is to go play with Nicolaiochikin, Denver. Doesn't mean that's the entire list, but those are the teams that we came up with. And, Dave, I think, like, if I asked you in October, and I asked you in December, you may have different rankings.

What do you think as we do this at the beginning of April? Yeah, you asked me in October or December, I'd probably put retirement as the number one option here. As of today, covering LeBron with the Lakers wing 15 out of 17 games and accepting this role that I didn't know I'd ever see him actually accept being willingly this much off the ball. Why wouldn't he stay with the Lakers? Like it gives him all the off-court things that he values his business empire, his family, his son's on his team, his other son is a short flight away in Arizona.

And Brani is starting to really do really well. Yeah, Brani's gotten some meaningful minutes of the last two weeks, which is a new development as well. And they're winning. So, you know, I think the only part of the equation that would be less desirable than other. situations would be the money because the Lakers do intend to build this team around Luca Donchich and use their cap space to get younger and get some two-way type players, some talent. And quite frankly, they don't have a ton of cap space after they resign Austin Reeves and Jackson Hayes and Luke Canard and maybe Rui Hachamora.

It's not like they have all this money. If they recite all those guys, that's their whole team. So yes, that will be their team. So if he wants to come back, I mean, you're not talking about. a lot of money. That's the sacrifice he would make, but everything else checks the box. So the Lakers, I think, are the number one by a wide degree at this point. That's interesting. I'm not sure I would agree with that personally, but I would say, tell me your argument then.

Well, this is the thing that's come up in every conversation I've had about this for six months, which is really since going back to last June when the option decision was made. What does LeBron want? I don't think anybody really knows. Honestly, like, to your point, Like, does he want to stay in L.A.? He may not know. Well, I'm not saying he does. But, like, does he want to stay? Does he value staying in L.A.

And being with the Lakers? Like, I could see that as a viable thing. Does he value making the most money, which has been what he's valued at all different points in his career? That probably doesn't make sense to be with the Lakers then. Is there another team that is going to want to pay him a max that he'd want to go to or a lot of money? Why are we just flat out discounting that, though, for a team that's $1.15 out of 17?

Well, I'm not discounting it. I don't know if I would say that there's any team that's a wide margin ahead, personally. That's all. That's all I meant. I'm not saying he's not saying with the Lakers. But I personally don't have a sense of one team that's in front of anybody else just for my conversation with people, but that doesn't mean it's right. He might just, he might say with the Lakers. But to me, it comes back to like, does he want to have the best chance to get a fifth ring?

Does he want to make the most money? Does he want to live in Los Angeles? Like what? As LeBron plays his, I guess it'll be 24th season, that is the question that everybody that I have talked to is sort of asked back is what do we think LeBron wants? And I don't think anybody really knows. Okay.

And let's just acknowledge that. But let me just say something about like the idea of Cleveland because that's something that is out there. LeBron's only going to Cleveland if he's willing to play for the minimum. Right. Because the calves don't have cap space, and they're going to be either in the second apron or the first apron. If you're in either, you're not going to have a full mid-level exception. And the idea that you could sign and trade for them, like let's say the Lakers say,

all right, LeBron, if you want to go in Cleveland, we'll sign and trade you for Jared Allen. Lakers need a center. It's not the craziest concept ever. The calves aren't allowed to do that trade. If you're in the first or second apron, you can't receive a player in a sign and trade. where they are right now. They'd have to make subsequent moves to get out of that. Correct. They'd have to really retrofit their team. Like, I think... There's ways to do that in some form with LeBron that don't require massively heavy surgery.

Right, but the concept of LeBron is that, you know, in Cleveland is that you're going to play with Hardin and Mitchell and Mobley and, you know... Right. It only works if he's taken the minimum, which is $4 million. He's making $50. Right. And that's where it comes back to, I think... Maybe he will. I'm not saying he won't, but... That's where I think it comes back to is what does he want to do in what's either the last year of his career or one of the last years in his career. Like to Dave's point, he has done a great job sort of falling into this, you know, whether it's Chris Bosch role or Kevin Love role or whatever, is like the third star on the team. Like, does he want to do that again next year? Would he rather go have the ball more somewhere else?

Would he rather play with other players? Would he rather be in a situation where he optimizes his chance to win a title? Would he rather put the caps on of his career going back to Cleveland again and playing their one last time with a team that could win the East? Obviously, if you just put him on the team at a minimum especially, they're going to be the favorites to win the East. I haven't talked to anybody that has a sense of what it is he's going to want to do. And I think going back to how Dave laid it out at the beginning, from the timing of his decision to how much money he wants to make to where he wants to play. all these things come back to that central premise to me of what is his decision-making process going to be. Well, Dave and Tim break it down significantly.

You should check the story out on ESPN.com. Dave, thank you so much. We'll talk to you and see you soon. Thanks, fellas. All right. It's that time of year, the time of the month, I should say. Not that time of the month. Oh.

It's McMahon's favorite time of the month. It's the time for the Cajunas factor, which means you've got the ball, McMahon. Both of them. It is a segment that has been described as one of one, baby. Here we go. And listen, we're making sure we get this in on time. It's definitely not one of one honorable mentions, that's for sure. Are we skipping those again?

We've got two honorable mentions this week. Or this month, rather. We're trimming the last day of the month off for time and purposes, just to make sure we get this at the beginning of the month, April Fool's Day and all. Only one true buzzer beater this month. So only one buzzer beating honorable mention. Anybody remember?

Anybody? Anybody? I don't. It's been a long month. It's high flying tip in to beat Miami 83ers on the night that Kevin Durant passed Michael Jordan and really kind of saved the day because it would have been like, how do you celebrate passing Michael Jordan if you miss the game beside and shot? So Min Thompson swooped in, saved the day. You know, they had a nice little celebration in the locker room. Vives are high in Houston or so. They want to keep telling us.

So anyways, that wasn't the one buzzer beat. The other honorable mention, Dennis Jenkins from the Detroit Pistons, has kept that thing not only kept it afloat. Like, they've been playing pretty good basketball. He almost had another buzzer beater in OK, see it. Well, and that's the thing. He would have been in the top three if that thing would have fallen. Because that would have been a buzzer beater on the road

against the defending champs with the pistons. He wouldn't have won with two buzzer beaters. The first one wasn't a pure buzzer beater, but it was a hell of a shot to count a 30-point performance against the Lakers with a, you know, with a game winner. He's getting the love of a of a winner, though, with one of a multitude of honorable mentions. Yeah. So, yeah, if the three would have fallen against OKC, he'd have been up in the top three. But it's a pretty damn jam-packed top three.

So we will start with the brass balls. I've got it in the same spot here as I do on my mythical. MVP ballot so far for the season on the on the ballot that I just turned in for the old BS straw pole. That is Luca Donchich. The shooting percentage in the clutch wasn't pretty for him, but the results overall were he did hit. It's pretty shocking that that shot he hit against Denver was his first, like, you know, last whatever was five second, last 10 second game winner in a Lakers uniform. but it was. He was plus 28 and 35 clutch minutes.

The Lakers, as they've done most of the season, were pretty dominant in crunch time. 28.7 assists, like I said, not a pretty shooting percentage, but, you know, carried the Lakers to a lot of wins down the stretch of games. And so Luka Donchish with the brass balls. Reaction, feedback, objections.

I was just waiting for the jam-packed listing of the awardees to be done. No, I mean, I think it's a pretty good chance. Luca's going to win. Well, they don't give a player of the month in March. They do it for March and April, right? So, well, I'm going to have a chance there. So the Denver Nuggets really kind of bizarrely went through a mid-season clutch funk

where they kept losing close game after close game after close game. And, you know, you're used to that two-man game, Joker and, you know, Murray taking them home. And for whatever reason, they weren't able to do it during a significant stretch of the season after Joker came back from that knee injury. Well, they've got things to fix, specifically the defense, but they fixed their little crunch time issues. Jamal Murray led the league clutch scoring last month, 45 points in 35 minutes, also had

seven assists. They went seven and three in clutch games. nut cutting time. That's the last three minutes within three points. 21 points and five assists plus 21 and 17 minutes and they were six and two in those games.

Joker had some really nice numbers too, but Jamal Murray's jumped off the page. We're talking about one of the best big shot makers in the NBA and he's back making a bunch of big shots for the Nuggets. He had a 53 point game last week. Yeah, not a clutch situation in that one. They were playing the Mighty Mavericks there.

although actually you know there were there was something in that one now I think about it that's the one where the maverick they gave up 130 something in the matter of because that gets back to they got some things to fix I told you it was Alice versus ember that's right that was they got some things to fix on that end of the floor was that was that get up the you were on they liked that was NBA today I was sitting right across a little little desk from you oh Jeremy Lynn he liked that oh no it was perk Mark liked it. Everybody liked it. My memory is all messed up.

I didn't like it. I didn't care about it. I've heard it before. No, anyway, it was good. By the end of his career, it was definitely Kenrick Perkins. Because the D had disappeared late in his career. But that's me that you know that. Jeremy Lynn really took to McMahon.

He'd never really seen anybody quite like. All of his travels of basketball all over the NBA and all over Asia. He'd never quite encountered anybody like. He's a unique individual. We do know that. Do you know that. Hey, speaking of defense, can we just mention my? defensive effort against Jeremy Lynn.

I held him scoreless during a several minute long segment. Yeah, I mean, he didn't shoot. But had he shot, I'm sure he would have missed. You're eating a clutch, I'm notherable mention for your defense on the show? No, I want a 10-day from a tanking team is what I really want. It's not far off. Give me a break.

It would work. Listen, I'm just going to pull the curtains back a little bit. So, I mean, OKC Monday night. and, you know, Shea had big game, 47 points, 21 of those were in the last seven minutes of the fourth and overtime. Pretty strong performance. I mean, JJ Redick had been lobbying for Luca Donchitz earlier in the evening to be MVP. You know, Wimby recently had his little three-prong campaign pitch. And so I inquired to Shea, you know, hey, there's been a lot of lobbying going on for MVP.

I said, what do you think in the MVP race? He said there's been a lot of chatter. You know, and it's great for the league. He said it was good for the league. Yeah, good for the league. There's been a lot of chatter. You know, a lot of great players makes for a good conversation. I said, well, there's been chatter on behalf of the players.

You'd like to chatter on your own behalf? He said, no, I'm good. Thanks for asking, though. How much you think the retail value of those sunglasses were that he was wearing while he was talking to you? Probably at least as much as my entire wardrobe. Okay. But he said, he said, I let my game do the talking. Oh, was that a little shot at Wimby?

Was that a little shot of our favorite ethical seven and a half footer? I loved it. Whatever it was. I loved when Victor said this stuff, and I loved that too. So, and then, dagon, nobody in OKC is going to lobby on behalf of Shea for MVP. Well, and then I see Shea in the hallway. They're above that. Well, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this out loud, but I see Shea in the hallway.

And he was groveling for an award, begging me to be the Cahoney. factor player of the month for March. Wow. I mean, just like, listen, he said, I don't care about... Well, he's got everything else on the mantle. He says, I don't care about MVP. If it comes, it comes. He says, but the Cohenies factor, that's a award that really has great meaning in the NBA.

You know, I get a lot of lobbying. It's got so much meaning that there's more honorable mentions than winners. That's so true. And I said, you know what, Shay? you had 44 clutch points on 21 shots in 29 minutes this month. I said, you know, you hit that dagger against the Warriors. That night you broke Wilts record, or tied Wilts record, rather. You hit that game winner from just about the same spot.

Remember when this is going to be fast, Brian? To beat the night. Shut up, Bob. Tim preamble to saying, Shea, the clutch player. Is this the clutch player of the month? Jackson, is that mute button broken? Like, what are we doing here? You got the game winner waved off against the pistons,

but boy, did he finish strong, nut cutting time? I mentioned Murray stats. How about this? 22 points, 6 to 7 from the floor plus 17 and 11 minutes. The thunder went 5 and 0 in those games. Am I leaving out the free throws stats intentionally? Yes, I am. There were a few frithos, and he knocked those down too.

Shea Gildas Alexander, yes, I will give you your wish. I'm like a genie, baby. I will grant your wish. You are the Cajonis Factor Player of the Month. for March. Congratulations. Clear that mantle. Push those Bill Russell trophy and the Michael Jordan trophy.

Just push it aside. I'm sure he bought the Larry O'Brien replica. Magic Johnson. Wait, no, what is? Who is it Oscar Robertson? Who's the conference finals won? Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. Yeah, that's right.

Is it magic? Magic gets two. Oh, one's basketball's registered associate, I guess. And also, when you win the championship here, I think your, Danny Green was telling me this year, You can buy a replica of Larry O'Brien trophy. It's not cheap. It's like many, it's thousands and thousands of dollars. I don't think it's the exact replica, but you can buy one.

I'm sure he, I'm sure he, I should get a contract extension this summer. I'm guessing he can afford all the replica Larry O'Brien's that he wants to get his hands on. All right. You've done it again. You've done it again. You've done it again. Another brilliant season of Cajonet's factors.

It's beautiful. So I don't know how he does it. All right. We have a cool thing that one of the friends of the show did, McMahon. You are a liaison for this. Why don't you take it away here? So Scott Morrison, Utah Jazz assistant coach, his wife Suzanne, have a foundation called The To the Max Foundation.

And I think a lot of fans have seen every season, or at least the last, I think this thing is the third year they're doing it. Or around this time of year, all the coaches is part of the NBA coaches. where custom painted shoes. And for the last couple years, it's been Air Force Wands for this year. It's the Nike Air Max 90s. And we are honored to be a part of this.

Sweet. That cool logo on the back, too? We sure are honored. It's awesome. Again, this is a foundation inspired by their son, Max, who has autism. And this is to celebrate autism acceptance. month. And so for the coaches, each coach wears the shoes once and then signs them and sends them back.

They're auctioned by Sotheby's. That'll be May 12th through May 18th. 100% of those proceeds go to the To The Max Foundation. It creates meaningful access and experiences for autistic individuals and their families. You can check out Sotheby's.com slash Toothamax Foundation to learn more about that. And it's not just the shoes from the coaches, but there's a ton of NBA memorabilia. Morrison is a Canadian. He's, I'll pull the curtain back here a little bit too. Remember when I used to point out that while Shea contributes to the Thunder defense, they do hide him on the easiest matchup all the time?

Well, this is the Canadian who slapped my wrist about that and chastised me about always point that out. But he said, we got to ease up. Well, Shea's since, at least last year, sent in some immorabilia. I know that his game worn Jersey certainly was one of the items that, uh, was able to raise a significant amount of money for a great cause. So again, I wore mine last night. They are painted.

Our podcast logo is a lot of orange in it. So they painted ours in this custom orange. You see the logo back here. One of three. One of three. There you go. I will admit, I was a little self-conscious last night because I didn't think this all the way through. I wore them to a, uh,

Thunder Pistons game. And I felt a little thundery in them. Matter of fact, J.B. Bickerstaff looks down on my kicks pregame. He's like, what's up with that? And then he was wearing it. He wore his last night, too. So I said, you know,

the To the Max Foundation, all right, all right. He goes, I thought you might have gone fanboy on us. That is definitely not happened. This guy's getting thrown out of arenas. Hey, but, hey, no kidding. I probably had like 25 people last night. be like, man, nice, like I'm walking to the green, man, those are nice kicks. So they definitely are eye popping and attention grabbing.

This guy used to be with the Celtics. He's a really good dude. He's done an amazing job at this foundation. It's a really cool thing. And I think all you need to know is you see how many, if you watch games, you see all the coaches around the league wearing them. Like Scott's a universally liked and respected guy. And it's been very cool to see what he and Suzanne have done with this foundation.

It's very neat. So it's cool to be part of it. Thank you so much, Scott. Best of luck to you and your family. And we'll be bringing these out and have them on countdown. There you go. Oh, amazing. That's great.

Yeah. Fire. Yeah. They're definitely fire. Thank you so much to McMahon and Bontems. Thank you to Scott Morrison, his wife and son, and their foundation. Thank you to Jackson, Mark, and Devon, our producers. Thank you to McManneman.

Thank you for listening and watching, The Hocel. We'll talk to you later this week. Friday, the Bontem. Pohl, this is going to be spicy. Ooh, we. Adios amigos.