Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Concerns For Warriors? Not Enough Respect for Thunder? + Flagg Ready to Roll

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to Jonathan Kuminga’s contract with the Warriors including what it means for Golden State for the upcoming season. Additionally, the guys break down Steve Kerr’s interesting comments on his future with the Warriors and if the Thunder are not getting enough respect for winning the title. Then, the crew talks the Heat’s future after signing Jovic, Kevin Durant’s excitement for the upcoming season and Cooper Flagg’s expectations in Dallas. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. The Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on different days and different parts of the world. So I'm in Abu Dhabi.

It's Thursday to me right now. I just woke up, but everybody else here hasn't gone to bed yet. So it's a little bit more complicated at this particular moment. Joining us from the Bay Area in California, he's been to Cleveland and Boston, though, this week to see the Cavs and the Celtics. is Tim Potts. Oh, Brian. Saw a little Warriors action today, and we almost had this on three different continents. If Jackson had just decided to stay in Europe an extra day, we could have really spread this out.

Yeah, we're really testing. We're really testing jet lag right now because Jackson is just back from October Fest, and he is fighting jet lag. I just woke up, so I'm fine. I'm ready for the day. Joining us from Vancouver, so we go to a third country with the Dallas Mavericks at their training camp is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. I think Jackson might be fighting something a little bit more than jet lag coming from Octoberfest, but it's just a suspicion that I have. Wendy, I got to ask you, how do you feel about Bon Tim's having a little side piece?

Oh, saw that Warrior Stock Report with Anthony Slater on our YouTube channel. Kind of cheating on us a little bit. I saw it was posted. You can check out Bon Tem's new feature with Anthony's. It's not really new. It's the new old feature. It's a callback to a classic. It's a callback to a classic. Back when Bontem's covered, he covered the NBA for the Washington Post, he lived in San Francisco and the warriors were at the peak of their powers. And after every game, he actually, every home game at least, you would do like a two and a half minute Twitter.

It was two minutes of 20 seconds because that was the limit on Twitter. And Slater reminded me today. I couldn't remember. This began because he, Marcus Thompson and I would sit on Press Row at Oracle and argue about whether Javelle McGee was actually any good. I know what your argument was like, Marcus was like, you guys should just do a video on this. So we did and became the stock report. Javel McGee dominated in Australia.

That was the irony that this week had coming back, Javail, I saw a clip of people doing doing NBL TV coverage saying that Javail looked like wilt. And I was like, well, here we go. Time is a flat circle. Right, there we go. Yeah, like 32 and 16. And I think he wasn't even there for all their training camp. So all right.

Well, training camp proceeds across the globe. Yeah, speaking of Australia, the Pelicans are in Australia. The net are the warrior, who's going to China, though? The nets, the Nets, Joe-sized Nets and the Phoenix Suns will be in Macau. Right. And you've obviously got the teams from my neck of the woods normally, the Knicks and Sixers in Abu Dhabiwood. Yes, Abu Dhabi is very welcoming. And I went to the practices for the Sixers and Nix yesterday.

I will be seeing their game, my today. A couple friends of the pod there. Oh, yes. Nick Nurse is here. Mike Brown. Mike Brown was very enraptured by the desert experience that the Knicks had while they were here a couple days ago, including getting some players to ride on. camels. I'm not sure if Mike actually wrote on any camels. You've been riding camels?

I have not been riding camels. But Adam Silver is here. Mark Tatum is here. There's a lot of NBA business happening here in Abu Dhabi. And so we'll have more talk about that later. Also, I don't want to talk too much about it before I see it play, but just we're in weird timing. But Mike Brown is allowing the media to watch. He's allowed the media to watch more of practice in the last three days than Tom Tibido did in five years. Tibbs will let them watch what, Fritho shooting? If that. Most of the time.

And so we've gotten an opportunity to see the Knicks offense in action a little bit. So I'm a little bit out of, you know, the game will have taken place by the time this is posted. We'll see. But we'll timestamp it a little bit here that what the Knicks are doing in practicing looks very, very different from the way that they've played in recent years. Now, look, I am from, you know, obviously I am not going to evaluate the NICS on what they're doing in the first day of September, first day of October.

Do I believe that they're going to break the old habits and that the ball will leave Jalen Brunson's hand like I'm seeing it, where I'm seeing just, really I'm kind of watching a Spurs 2010-style offense from the Nix where, the old Greg Popovich 0.5 rule, which is you get the ball and you have half a second to decide to pass or shoot. That's what the Knicks are doing in practice right now. Does that actually going to translate? I mean, Jalen Brunson, I'd like to point out, missed like seven or eight games last year. And he led the league in dribbles. So I think it, I don't think it was close. So I mean, that's going to be an old habit to break. But we'll see. Well, but Brunson also has played. played off the most ball dominant player in the league. Like Brunson came up playing off of Lucodontje. It's not like he's always had the ball in his entire career. So he can play different styles.

He also has become a superstar since dominating the ball. Yes, he is. We'll see. And the story on the Sixers, and this will be real quick. And then we're going to move on to the Warriors. They're going to be missing like five or six players just for these two games here. including Quentin Grimes, who just signed his qualifying off for Wednesday. Yes, he is not here.

But I did see, so Joel Embed was not participating in the part of practice that I saw. Paul George was doing some practicing. He's not going to play here. Have they said if Joel's going to play or not? I mean, it is my understanding, again, this will be dated. It is my understanding he is not going to play. I just didn't know. I didn't know if they'd said either way at all.

The way it was said to me is a very high-ranking Sixers person said to me, we're going to be missing five or six guys. So we'll see. Sounds like a normal day for the Sixers. I will tell you this, though, for Sixer fans. As I talked to some of the veterans that I know, there's a lot of excitement about VJ Edgecom. We all know that athletically, he is extremely gifted.

And there has been a pleasant surprise so far in training camp and in the workouts leading up to it about how his shooting has looked, that his shooting has shown good improvement. Now, again, we're talking about the earliest of early days here. But, you know, Tyrese Maxie is fully healthy and fully energized. He was bouncing around. He was his total typical self. And so if you've got anything to lean on,

you can lean on the excitement of that young backcourt. Also, and I'm, I don't know why I'm saying this, but the Sixers are optimistic that they're going to have their team. I mean, I'm just reporting, I'm just reporting, I'm just reporting what they're saying. Okay. That's enough. Okay. All right. Let's go out, let's go out to the Bay Area, which is approaching 10,000 miles away from me there,

Bontems. Two interesting pieces of information. One, we kind of expected and one that I didn't fully expect. What we expected was that Jonathan Cumminga was going to be back with a war, years before the midnight struck on October 1st because that was when his his qualifying offer was expiring and that made it complicated. So he signs a two-year 40-something million dollar deal. I've seen a bunch of different numbers yet. I haven't seen the official number. 468, I believe, is the official number. Plus a trade. Right, which he seems to think there's a good chance he'll get

traded in Aaron Turner, his agent when he came on the pod a couple weeks ago, pretty much admitted this contract was being signed to be traded. Yes, he's a trade exception. Who's going to get some minutes? Yeah, he's going to get some minutes. So, Bontemps, what was the demeanor out in Golden State now that that had been cleared? Well, Jonathan Caminga, this pod's going to post Friday. It's right now Wednesday night.

So Wednesday afternoon, Al Horford had his introductory presser, as he said, at De Anthony Melton. And then Steve Kerr spoke. And actually in backwards order, those guys spoke last. And then Steve Kerr and Mike Dunleavy, General Manager of the Warriors, spoke for the first time since the Kaminga signing was announced earlier Wednesday and was agreed to on Tuesday. And look, I think the John of the Kamaika camp has made a whole lot of noise for the past few

months and said a whole lot of things. I made a whole lot of threats, including on this pod about going to take the qualifying offer. We got to get a player option. We got to get this. We got to get that. The end of the day, they caved, and they totally caved. They gave up everything they said they weren't going to do.

They waived their no trade clause in this contract, so the worries can trade them anywhere they want. They got a team option on the second year. I personally would have advised Jonathan Kamenka to sign the two-year deal with a third-year team option and guaranteed himself $48 million, personally. But he has chosen to take the shorter deal to get himself too free to see in theory sooner when he gets to a new team, a new long-term deal with them sooner. We will see if that winds up being wise business.

But look, I would say for Mike Dunleavy and the Warriors, you know, Mike got up there and said all the right things today that Jonathan's had a good summer. They've seen him working out. They're, you know, he's going to show up. They expect him to show up and do his job. Steve Kerr, our buddy, Nick Fidel, was good to see him today. There was a bit of a callback. I don't know if you guys remember back in 2015-16.

The Chicago Bulls had Dwayne Wade and Jimmy Butler and Rajon Rondo on the team. Remember what those guys were called? The three alphas. The three alphas. Well, today, Steve Kerr, very, I don't believe he meant to do this, but he was asked about, well, what is, you know, how are you going to, I think Nick might have even asked him. How are you going to manage kind of an uncomfortable situation in the locker room with this guy who, you know, spent all summer talking about wanting to leave? Now he's here. It seems like a tradable contract, like kind of how's this going to go?

And Steve goes, well, you know, Jimmy Butler's an alpha, Steph Curry's an alpha, Draymond Green's an alpha. Those guys are going to run the locker room. It's all going to be fine, which Nick and I had a laugh because Mike Dunleavy was on that Bulls team with the three alphas. And those three alphas didn't go so hot when they were together. Now, we'll see how this Warriors team is. Those three alphas were going at each other.

That is also true. There was a lot of that, too. So that was a funny line. But look, to me, I thought the most interesting thing said today, in general was when Mike sat down and started his presser, the first thing he talked about, I think Slater asked him initially, you know, it's basically a tradable deal. What do you think about it? And Mike said, look, a year ago, I would have sat here and said, we have to get better from where we are to start a camp. Right now, I'm not sure. I don't believe that right now. Doesn't mean we're

not going to maybe make moves later, but I really like our team. And that was the message he kept delivering throughout his presser is that he believes the warriors are good enough to be a real factor in the West and to make a run. Now they have a bunch of guys north of 35. We've talked about how old the clippers are. The Warriors are that on steroids with Steph and Jimmy and Draymond and Al Horford. And we'll see what happens with the comming a thing between now and February 5th. But they feel pretty confident that if they can get to the playoffs and those four guys are healthy, plus whatever they add over the course of the year, and they can maybe have some of these young guys,

Brandon Pajamski and Trace Jackson-Daves, some of these guys get better, but they can be as good as anybody in the West, especially this side of O'KC, and it's going to be interesting to see if they're right. I mean, I understand them feeling that way. You look at the record with Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry in the lineup together. You know, that's a contender caliber record.

It's a 22 and 5, right? Yeah, and what is that? That's like a third of a season sample size. You know, the health with guys that age, obviously, is a huge, huge if. But the Kaminga thing, this is a fine, temporary solution. And I don't think it's not in Kaminga's best interest to be raising hell or in the season. Look, does he want to be there? He would have preferred to have gone elsewhere.

Everybody understands that. They would have preferred to get good value for them and move on to. It's a temporary situation. this isn't like oh say his teammate jimmy butler last year in miami where he's going to burn the place down so he can get the hell out they want him out he wants to get out now if he's still there after the trade deadline could that get toxic i could certainly see that and then i think the biggest question is is he is he going to be bought in is he going to be really doing the kind of things that steve cur and the vets in the locker room want him to do to help a team you know you're you know, to help the team win, you know, as opposed, like, is it going to do stuff that doesn't involve him putting the ball in the basket? And if he's not doing that stuff, then it might not be him raising hell, but they're, you know, it could get uncomfortable. The thing I thought that was interesting, Steve Kerr said was that to go back to how old this team is, he was like,

look, we're going to have days where Jimmy isn't playing or Steph isn't playing. Maybe they're both not playing. And we're going to need this guy to put up shots in those games. and to play a big role in those games. And like, we're going to need him to do stuff. So to your point, I do think some of the way that they might be able to massage this over the first couple months of the season is that there will be games where it's like, hey, Jonathan, you're going to get 22 shots today because Steph isn't playing or Jimmy isn't playing.

Again, maybe they're both not playing. And I think they'll find places where they can sort of strategically do that to let him eat some. But yeah, I think for the other thing we're going to get into in a bit about the Warriors this week. You know, Steve has shown he's not going to have any problem not playing Jonathan Comingo if he doesn't think it's going to help this team win games. And again, he's now under contract, which is good, but there's really not a lot of incentive for them to jam a square peg in a round hole if he's not playing the way they need him to. And they can go to a GiSontos

or somebody else who can do the things Steve wants to do. And he could find himself back out of the rotation like he was at times the last couple of years. So I'm just smiling about the idea of Guy Santos playing over Jonathan Cummega. That's what happened. It's what happened at the end of last season. And if you look at the advanced numbers, there's arguments for that at times. I'd like to make a resolution on this podcast. And that is that after this one, we're not going to talk about Jonathan Cumminga for a while.

I think we can all sign up for that one. Hey, I think. Caminga's going to put up 50 in the opener. We're going to be talking about it. Hey, listen, if he does that, then he will have devern it. I think most seasoned people in the NBA knew this was going to get done. And obviously it was because the Warriors are such a huge fan base and because there's so much focus on them, it became. Or because he's a piece that they could turn into something else.

That's the other thing. It's not just like he's on the team. It's that like Big Man said, this was essentially turning this into a trade exception to use in January to try to make them better. And when they do that, we'll talk about it. That's right. I will say one thing to point out, just for procedural reasons. Any players who sign this offseason, they can't be traded until December 15th. But if a player earns a certain threshold of a raise, they can't be traded until January 15th.

So that's why you're going to hear some. players are going to be able to be traded in December. But in Cumminga's case, because I don't remember what the percentage is, Bontem's, but he... Yeah, I don't remember either, but he exceeded it. So if Cumminga is traded, it will be between January 15th, which is when he can be moved and February 5th, which is the trade deadline. So you can't be traded until January 15th, then. Neither can you.

I might still be December. So the... You're over the percentage. The, that's the thing. So we can retire trade talk about Kaminga for a while, even if that will be a thing later on. And we talk about the Warriors, we can focus on, you know, the Future Hall of Famers that are on their roster. Listen, if you have Aaron Turner back at the podcast, he'll tell you that includes Kaminga. I appreciate Aaron coming on.

And if Jonathan Kaminga runs together five or six all-star seasons, then we can talk about him as a future Hall of Fame. And, you know, maybe he will. But the Warriors, I think, is important to point out that they finished very strongly last year after Jimmy Butler was traded. And, you know, there's a couple of teams in the Western Conference that can look you with a clear eye and say, the way we play at the end of last season means that we're going to be in great shape. That would be the warriors who believe that. And that's Steph talked about that, you know, this week already. The Timberwolves can say that.

Well, and the Warriors, I mean, if you ask the Warriors, especially if you give them, some truth serum. I think they'll tell you, if Steph hadn't got hurt in game one, game two of that series against the walls, I mean, they thought they were going to be playing Oklahoma City in the conference finals. And I will say, we've all talked about how great we think the Thunder are. This is certainly not backing away from that. But if there's anybody that's given them trouble over the years, it's been Steph Curry and the way Steph plays. They consistently had trouble guarding him. And so, yeah. So is everybody else, by the way. No, I know, but I'm just saying, like, for as great as their defense is, he has really given them fits.

And if they were, if they walk into a series with the Thunder, they're going to think they can go at them. So, you know, and look, I'm still picking the Thunder to win the title. As I repeatedly said all summer, I think they're the heavy favorites to beat everybody for a reason. But, you know, Golden State had a lot of reason to leave last season thinking if we make improvements, we can, we got a puncher's chance. And, you know, I think they've overall had a good summer. They got a chance to get better in January. And all the numbers with, you know, their stars together looked very good. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

I would just say about the Thunder. I don't want to divert it when for the Warriors too much. Last year, one of the big themes was that nobody feared them. Nobody, you know, that was the thing. I don't care if they win 75 games. They obviously sent that message loud and clear by raising the banner. But they did have two. seven game series.

Look, this feels so much, this feels so much like the Warriors in 2015-16. I'm almost tempted to say, I think they're going to win 70 games. Because like, it's the same exact thing. That team, well, that's that that in 14-15, the Warriors won 66 games. They were the heavy, they dominated the whole season. They then went through the playoffs. They won the title. That whole summer, all we heard was that it was a fluky title.

and jumps shooting cats got hurt Yeah jump shooting teams Yeah The calves got hurt Yeah Well it was because They weren't they wouldn't have beat them

I'm just saying I'm not saying We don't need to relitigate all that I'm just saying That whole summer It was just a litany of And this team wasn't actually As good as the record

They actually weren't that good I don't really believe it And then they came back And I think they started The next season 25-0 24-0 I don't think anybody is saying that about the thunder. I'm just saying... I think it's a lot closer to that.

I don't... I don't think it's... I don't think it's... I don't think it's... I don't think it's comparable at all because I think because I think the Cavs were looked at as having LeBron James in his prime and several other major players. I think it's comparable, man, because Cavs Corner was on the other side. I think that's why it's not comparable. Oh, it's not comparable because the... I'm not going to fall into his cap. Oh, I would say. Come on, Wendy. He's really on you in. I mean, with all due... I mean, with all due... respect to the Pacers. I'm sorry. I do not think that they have a LeBron James in his prime. Again, I wasn't trying to turn this into a specific relitigation of Warriors' Cavs, which I know in Northeast Ohio, there's a lot of sore feelings and maybe they could have won the title.

I'm just saying, I would say there is a similar feeling of the Thunder. I still think going into this season, the Thunder are not being treated like a team that just won 68 games and won the title. Which is crazy because the Thunder should be better than they were last year. They have a roster full of ascending talent. Chet Holm would miss more than half the year and then had to come. And as a hard time, I missed a bunch of games. Yeah. Like, I mean, they should be a better team than a 68 win team that had a historically high point

differential and won a championship. I mean, there were people that were surprised in the survey that they got 18 out of 20 votes to win the West and win the title. There like there wasn't more votes for other teams. Well, that doesn't surprise me. I don't agree. Well, I don't agree with that. I think you should have got 18 votes.

I'm just saying, I don't think they're seeing the way they should be. It's the thunder. Like that where his team was. And then potential challengers. The Warriors have every right to feel like they can be a potential challenger, you know, the stuff we talked about. The Timberwolves after going to the conference finals the last couple of years and really during the season last year,

having to figure out a lot of fit things, really got it figured out with Julius Randall alongside Ann Edwards. The Nuggets with their improved bench, that is a team that pushed OKC to seven games. You know, obviously the coaching change, you know, breathe some life into that team. By the way, how crazy is it? David Adelman has seven playoff wins and three regular season wins in his coaching career. It's one of the craziest stats you'll ever see. I don't think you'll ever see that again.

You know, the Rockets, the Van Vleet thing's a huge blow. But they've, I think we've got to put them on the list. And honestly, I think he, I think the two LA teams are somewhere in that. I think there's a pretty fat tier of potential challengers and they're in that tier. Just again, point out, not that I'm predicting this, the wolves made the last two conference finals. Yeah. Point that up. And the Mavericks think they're in that tier.

They are not on the list of teams that. that finished last season strong to give them momentum going in this year. We'll talk about the Mavericks in a minute. I don't want to get away from the Warriors, even though we've been pulling far. Even though we got away from the Warriors. All right. So we'll see how they actually play on the court.

But the Warriors delayed, and I don't exactly know the reason because I've been overseas, but I assume it was comminga related. It is not unusual for teams to make. their general manager and head coach available days before Media Day. And then certainly if, you know, the head coach, if he hasn't given a preseason address yet, always speaks on Media Day. Often the general manager does too. In the case of the Warriors, neither the general manager, Mike Dunleavy or Coach Steve Kerr talked on Media Day.

And I get it. They had the Kamenka thing outstanding. So Dunleavy spoke. But after the first day of practice, which, you. you would now have joined the team, joined alongside the team, McVontems. Steve Kerr spoke. And Steve Kerr, who was in his 12th year

as the head coach of the Warriors, has won four championships, has been to five finals, six finals, talked about his complete comfort level with being on the final year of his contract. He not only does not have, have a contract for this year, but said that he doesn't expect there to be negotiations about a new contract and said that he's completely comfortable with that. He's in a very good place with Mike

Dunlevy and Joe Lakey, the governor. You know, I spent a little bit of time with Steve Kerr this offseason. I had dinner with him one night. He seems in a very good place. But Steph Curry is multiple years on his contract. Jimmy Butler has multiple years on his contract. You know, this, you know, hoping for good health, this warrior's run is going to extend, you know, whether or not they're going to be good enough to get back to the finals. It's one of the things we're going to be watching for the next six months. But the comfort level with the warriors themselves, Fontemps, because this isn't just about the Steve Kerr's comfort level, but the Warrior's comfort level with not having Steve Kerr under contract and Steve's open comfort

level with it. While it might sound like everybody's not stressed about it, I think it's an interesting development that's going to be allowed to get to this point. Yeah, I think it's an interesting development too. I was a little surprised that Steve just came out and said it. I talked about this with Slater on our thing today. It reminded me a little bit of when I was at Media Day in 2018 right before coming over here. And I was still at the post and living out here when Steve Kerr got up there on the podium and basically just said, yeah, Kevin Durant's leaving next summer. So we're just going to have a fun year. and we're not going to really spend a lot of time worrying about what the future looks like.

You know, they even called it like the last dance. It was not a fun year. Well, it ended up being a challenging year. Well, they reached the finals. But it was not a fun year. It was not a fun year. No. But I think, and I'm not saying that, like it reminds me of that in the sense that I think Steve is like definitely leaving next summer.

He's not going to coach next year. But what I mean is Steve is obviously a master of managing the media and managing the emotional IQ of the team. And I think if you're, everybody knew his contractual status, right? And if you just come out and say the first day, hey, we're going to talk about this in the spring. We're going to have a great year. I'm going to. It's the fall. What's going.

Oh, expert. I think of saying. Talk about it in spring. We're going to get through the season. We'll sit down, we'll talk about it then. I feel great about where everything's at. You know what you do? You remove it from the menu of options for people to ask you about between now and that, right?

If he just said, you know, worry about it later, it's fine. Then in a month might say, hey, Steve, your contract, like where are we at, right? But by sort of taking it, addressing it and putting it over here, he removed it from the potential storylines for the season. And frankly, I mean, it's not too different than what his former coach, Phil Jackson, did many times in his career. And Steve Kerr, like Phil Jackson, is in the extraordinarily enviable position of being able to do whatever the hell he wants. That's right. And if he wants to be the coach of the Warriors next season, guess what? He'll be the coach of the Warriors next season.

And if he wants to test free agency and see if he wants to potentially coach somewhere else, he can go do that. and he'll get a job in three seconds. And if he decides he wants to go back and do television, he will be the most sought after television person in a long time. He's already been great at it in the past. He'd be great at it if he does it again. He'll get a giant check if he does that. And if he wants to just go hang with his grandkids and be done,

he can do that and he'll walk into the Hall of Fame as one of the five best coaches ever. Right. So if you're in a position where you can dictate your terms on what you want to do, why wouldn't you say, hey, yeah, I'm just going to go through the year and enjoy it and see what happens next summer because he's not he's not some coach that has to worry about being a lame duck. I remember this, you know, when I think about this, you're right, this happened with Phil Jackson, and he sort of went year to year. I remember this happened with Joe Torrey. Oh, yes.

And he was the coach of the Yankees and they were winning all those championships in the 90s around the turn of the century. And for like several years in a row, it was like, is Joe Torrey going to come back? And like literally the media would camp out. outside Joe Torrey's house in October or in November. His house is Steinbrenner's house? And they would like wait. You know, is Joe Tori returning his coach? So yes, you are correct.

Manager, skipper, whatever. Yes, you do reach a level where, you know, you have decisions. This kind of happened, I think, with Doc Rivers, too, in Boston. You know, they, he had a lot of success. And it was, you know, you know, he would get asked at the end of every season. and like, are you coming back? And, you know, several times the answer was, yep, I'm coming back. And I remember one time the Clipper Trade.

Yeah, I remember one time the heat beat the Celtics in the playoffs. And the post game series was over and the post game press conference was on. And the Boston media had to do what they do with Doc, what we're doing with Doc at the time when they were like, Doc, are you coming back to coach next year? And he's like, oh, yeah, I signed a contract extension about, six, eight weeks ago. Yeah, I'm coming back.

And I was like, oh, my God, you know, okay. But then there was one year where he said, I got to think about it. He didn't say he was coming back right away. And he ended up on the Clippers a few weeks later. So it does happen. Having said that, it is unusual that a coach of his level actually reaches free agency. And the comeback is more like, well, we'll either go our separate ways or we'll state together. It's unusual. That's the case. So I don't, I don't think it's a panic time. I don't think it

necessarily is indicative of anything. But, um, you know, Steph and Jimmy got their contracts, you know, aligned. And, you know, Curr's is not. I just, I think, well, and I think if Steve wanted, here's what I would, I feel very comfortable saying. If Steve Kerr wanted his contract to be aligned with Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler, his contract would be aligned with Steph Curry and Jimmy Bucker. And I think, like, the guy is approaching 60 and he's had a hell of a run. And I, like, you know, I think it's, I think it's as likely, and this is just me speculating. I have not talked to Steve about this at all. But I haven't known him for a long time. I would guess it's more likely he doesn't coach at all after this season than he explores for agency and goes and coaches another

team. Like, I don't, we'll see what he winds up doing, but I feel like it's, yeah, do I want to do this again? I mean, and look, as far as coaching jobs go, coaching Steph Curry is a pretty sweet gig. You know? He would be the first to say that. I mean, from, I'm just like the talent, the personality, all of that. All of it. So I, you know, I'm not saying there's no way Steve Kerr would go coach another team but man like it's going to be tough to find greener grass than that but it's it's a demanding job you know i mean it's demanding job he's done very well for a long time made a lot of money and and maybe he does at the end of the season just look at the mirror and say i need to step away or i want by the way one of the one of you know you can play what if games all day long

all night long for you guys all day for i know what you're thinking i know what you're going to say because you're talking about Phil Jackson. Yeah. One of the more remarkable what ifs of the last of the century so far, when Phil Jackson was running the Knicks and he had decided he, you know, he had hired Steve Kerr. Steve Kerr, you know, I mean, I don't know how much of committed. I don't know how you want to use the word committed, but like, you know, he was going to be the head coach of the Knicks.

And then the Warriors job developed. Mark Jackson was let go and the Warriors job was a very attractive job. on the West Coast with his where his family was. You know, again, I don't know. I'm not looking to get aggregated for what happened. There's an even bigger what if to this than the Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr one, which is, what if Stan Van Gundy, who is the Warriors' top pick, had chosen to coach the Warriors instead of going to have both jobs with the Pistons?

He was their top choice. Whoops. Well, I mean, I'm not saying, I don't know if the Warriors would have been the team they are if they're standing on there. But like that, that's to me the much bigger what. if like Stan was the number one choice. They were like, do you want our job? And he said, I'm going to go to Detroit and have full control over basketball operations and be the coach.

And that's where the Steve Kerr thing came in after that. Because of what happened when he was in Orlando, when he was very successful. And his star player, Dwight Howard, tried to get him traded, which he announced in front of the media, which was still. I mean, while drinking a dietic. better post-practice coach media availability than that, especially when, you know, Dwight comes over and, well, what was it, Diet Dr. Pepper? Well, I think it was Diet Coke, Diet Coke, while the New York, while the New York Dix Media was standing there.

Oh, my God. I will say it was, you know, Dwight just went into the Hall of Fame in August. There was a September, whenever it was recently. And he shouted out, Stan, who was in the crowd. and, you know, made sort of reference to that. He didn't shout out Mike Dantonium, and Mike was in the crowd, too. Oh, I didn't know that. Adam and L.A., and Mike was there.

You know, Mike coached both Dwight and Carmelo Anthony. I think the other players who enjoyed coaching more during his greet. Not quite the Steve Nash-level relationship with those fellas. I'll put it that way. That's true. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. All right. Speaking of contracts, there was a rookie contract extension that happened while I was sleeping in Abu Dhabi.

First, when you sleep up, date of the season. I had a great night's sleep. I passed out about 10 minutes after I was on NBA today with you at about 415 Eastern. Anyway, Nikola Yovic from the Miami Heat agrees to a four-year, 62 million. dollar extension with where the salaries have gotten with the new cap that is really not that far above the mid-level exception so it is huge money yeah it is a huge money and but a you know a certainly a reasonable deal for still a very young player who is very tall shoots the ball well and highly athletic it just um I think whenever you're examining the heat because the heat are always

you know, eyeing the next big acquisition, you just keep an eye on where their cap sheets are. And, you know, one of the things about Miami is, this offseason is, well, the offseason is over, but what they might do with a Tyler Hero contract, Tyler Hero was extension eligible, and, you know, whether they want to protect their books going forward. Certainly, you know, this is a very reasonable number to invest in a player like Yovic, maybe it ends up being a good deal. Maybe it's not. He's a player that has been requested in trade discussions with them over the last year or so,

and they've resisted trading him. So they obviously like his upside. More than talking about Yovic and him getting paid, he's a role player for them at the moment. It's just interesting when the heat expend money and put some money on their books. But again, what do we do here on the podcast, Fontems? When a player signs a contract, we first ask the question, can this contract be traded? Absolutely.

Yeah. It's a good deal. I mean, look, Nikoliovich is a 22-year-old 6-10 guy who's got skills and it just came off a Eurobasket where he scored 12 points a game for Serbia and shot over 50% from three. Like, he can really play. His problem so far in his career has been, he's played a total of 107 games in three years. So he needs to be able to stay on the court. which is partly why I think this number came in where it did.

But when you look at him next to Bamatabio, he's a perfect fit as a long-term four for Miami. And I think this is a deal where there's a ton of upside for the heat. And we could be talking easily about this in as soon as three or four months, or if not by next season, as one of the better deals in the league. Again, if Yovic can stay on the court, which is a real if he's got to say healthy. One of the better deals in the league?

I'm just talking pure that the kind of deal that I could see being on the all contract team story I do in the middle of the season. Because like if he's a starting power forward making $14, 15 million, that's a really good value contract. Like doesn't make him better than Jaron Jackson Jr., for example. But like when you talk about why would he spend this money, like this could be a starter on what's a backup. contract going forward. And to get him locked up at 22 years old on this kind of deal, I think it's smart business. And I think it, like you said, if Miami's going to spend money, it's going to be on money like this that they can either trade or that doesn't preclude them from having max salary cap space in 2027 when they have Bam and nobody else on the books, now Bam and Yovich and

nobody else on the books, potentially go out and add big name players and free agency. Yeah, well, they currently have nobody on the books. Like, that's why the Roger thing is interesting. And also Norman Powell, who is in the final year of his contract. And they got on a very nice, by the way, they still have Khalil Ware, who almost certainly will have his option picked up. But when you look at the heat and you look at where they're at with this particular team, you say, okay, Bamabio, he's their captain. He's their long-term franchise player.

Wiggins has this year and he has next year's player option, which is $30 million, I think, a reasonable chance that he picks that up. But, you know, it's possible he could opt out of that and they could redo a deal. Norman Powell at $20 million on the last year of his deal. But you are correct. They have been careful with what they have done regarding their books to keep them relatively clean after next season. Well, it's 2027 when Yokic and Janus and all these guys are available. That is the year to watch.

They're in an in-between face. Well, they've got to, they've got to, they're positioned themselves to make a play for their next superstar. Bam is an all-star. He's not a superstar. That's a place that's had success getting superstars over the years. They're positioned themselves to take another big swing. Yovic is a guy who I think factors into that next phase of the heat, either as a high-quality, complimentary role player or potentially as a, uh, a trade chip that's included in a deal for a star if it doesn't end up happening via the free agency. Well, and like you said, Brian, Yovic is on the team right now in part because the heat did not go get Kevin Duran, right? Like to go back to the same conversation we've had about them a few times. They could have traded for Kevin Duran, but that would have required them sending out more draft picks.

They had two different bites at that apple. Right, but it was the same choice essentially both times. It was, do we want to trade draft picks? and young players to get Kevin Durant and add them to our current team and will that make us good enough? Or are we going to get assets back into Jimmy Butler trade and get draft picks back, get players back? And like Bigman said, recognize that we're in an in-between phase and this is not the time to push in. And I said at the time, I think we all would agree. I think logically that was the right path to take.

Kevin Durant's an all-time great player. he was not turning the Miami Heat into a contender. So Duran ended up where he should have gone. Yes, 1,000 percent. And the Heat should be waiting for a guy that's going to be a better fit with their team to actually get them back to contending status. And as we all know, the Heat will always be a place guys are interested to play. And as long as they remain in the mix for it and keep adding some young players that are

interesting at some point, they're going to get somebody. Kevin Durant was so excited to be. a rocket. I know we talked about that, but just because we just mentioned in passing, like, I did not detect. It's an awesome basketball fit. He should be excited. Right. I know. I'm just saying, you know, I, you know, I have, I was sitting there thinking as I was, you know, sitting in that press conference with Durant on Monday in Houston that, you know, I've, I've been around Kevin Durant in a lot of situations now. This is his 19th season. And, you know, I've seen him on a lot of teams, you know, covered him with Team USA.

I've seen him in a lot of uniforms, you know, seeing him when he's not been excited. Like, you know, in that 2018-19 season with the Warriors, his last year in Golden State. Like last season of Phoenix, obviously. Yeah. You know, I don't think that he was, you know. Post after the whole trade deadline stuff, like nobody was excited there.

He was definitely turned off after that. But at the beginning of the season, Durant was genuinely, you know, despite the overall tenor of disappointment, about the Fred Van Bleed injury, which, you know, sort of, I think, undercut the rocket's momentum, regardless of what happens. But I'm just saying, just because you mentioned it, like, I, as I was thinking about and reviewing it on the, uh, 15 hour flight out here, uh, he was, he was really fired up about it. You were, you were in those, well, Kevin, you were in those lie flat seats,

just kind of pondering all this stuff. You know, it was a very long flight. I mean, look, Kevin's had very, I mean, you go all the way back to when. And he tore his Achilles in 2019. He's not had a whole lot of things to get super excited about, like in terms of real success. Like, yeah, they had the one year in Brooklyn where they went seven with the bucks in 21. Otherwise, that whole experiment was a giant disappointment. Yeah. He goes to Phoenix.

That whole experiment was a giant disappointment. They win the one playoff series and they get smoked. Then they get, because they made the second round the first year. then they got swept by the wolves, right? And last year they didn't even make the playoffs. So like you go, those two seek those two situations together. Like just there just was a lot of misery in both places. And now to land, as McMahon said, in the perfect basketball fit for him,

where he can fit right in with these younger guys. He's always been a guy who's loved to get in the gym with younger players and work on their games. Like they got him in Thompson and all, you know, Alper and Schengu and all these interesting young players, all these guys who were in the gym all the time. I'm like it's got a chance to be an incredible fit for him. And, you know, like we've talked about a lot, I'm just super excited to watch that Rock. Yeah.

All right. So where you are there in Vancouver, by the way, McMahon, how did the Mavericks choose to go to Vancouver? You know, I don't know. I suspect that there's a golf course around here that J.Kidd wants to play. A lot of golf course is a lot of places, though. Thursday's the off day. I'm going hiking up a mountain.

I bet you, Jay, kid will be on a golf course. But no, I don't, they like to get away for training camp. Last year is in Vegas. Now Vancouver. I'll take Vancouver over Vegas, but that's just me. Yeah, you've been to Vancouver twice this summer. I guess it's fall now, but. Yeah, twice in my life, both within, you know, span of months. Yeah, there you go. So Cooper, Flagg, I know you talked about him while when we were on NBA today, year today, my yesterday. wanted to see what the early returns were on Cooper Flag, the rookie of the moment. They still like them.

They're going to keep him. Yeah, they like him. You know, they like his competitiveness. They like his basketball IQ. And I thought, you know, he put it really well. Like he, look, his goal is to be rookie of the year. But he understands, like, this is not a situation that number one overall pick typically walks into where, you know, the ball's in his hands, everything revolves around him and, you know,

you're going to live with growing pains because you're probably going to not win a whole lot of games to get another high lottery pick. He walks into a situation where, yeah, he's going to have the ball some, but look, it's AD's team first and foremost. Kyrie's going to come back, you know, probably at some point mid-season. You know, AD's talked a lot about the pressure not being on Cooper Flag to have to carry the weight of a team. But I really like, you know, Cooper Flags talked about he wants to just fit in. And, you know, I said, you know, how do you fit in, but maintain the kind of assertiveness that you've played with your entire life? And he said, I want to fit in, not fade in.

You know, he wants to fit in in the sense of impact the game in a ton of different ways, you know, defensively. He might be a more impactful defender right away than an offensive player. You know, defensively as a playmaker, rebounder, you know, making the right reads and scoring. But I thought fit in, not fade in was a pretty good way to put, you know, what his approach will be this season. Long as he doesn't fit out. Yeah, yeah, right. Kevin Love is in Utah. He's fitting out in Utah, I'll tell you that.

It did look weird to see. It did look weird seeing him in a jazz uniform. He's got the snow peaks on the hair, too. I legitimately forgot he was on the jazz, so I saw that picture of him. I was like, holy moment. What he looked like he was in a hostage video? Yes, yes. It wasn't that bad.

The thing about Flag that got a lot of people's attention early when he was just, you know, in his mid-teens, was how much he wanted to defend. This is obviously a player who was incredibly skilled with great size. and a lot of tools. And a lot of times when you see a player like that who's going to have entire leagues and entire teams built around him, you don't see defense always being a priority. As I have watched him, he loves to defend.

He thrives on defense. In fact, it's one of the reasons, it's one of the, I think, reasons that people got excited about him is that he showed such a willingness to defend. And not just, you know, you can go look at his highlight videos and he blocks a lot of shots, okay? He hunts blocks shots. But he wants to defend, you know, a whole bunch of different players

and it was really defining his time at Duke. And I will say this, one of the areas that I suspect he can make the biggest impact as a rookie. And, you know, normally we're talking about the number one overall pick, especially if you're talking about a guy like Cooper who is regarded as a potential, instantaneous franchise cornerstone. Like you don't get that every year.

You don't see this a lot. But his impact as a rookie very well might be on that defensive end. I realize this experiment with him playing a point guard will be monitored. But that defensive end of the court is where I think we're going to hear about him a lot. Yeah. And look, he's probably on a lot, if not most nights, going to get the toughest defensive assignment, one through three, maybe even four. Very, that's an incredibly rare for a rookie to hear you say that.

Dude, for an 18-year-old rookie who should just be starting college, right? Remember, he reclassified. He should have graduated high school last year. You reclassified in high school and college, I believe. I reclassified like five times in college. Never moving up, though. I had a senior era. But, again,

an 18-year-old with that kind of defensive ability and responsibilities, I don't know. I'd have to think, have we ever seen that? I'm not sure we have. Very simply, the guy that he has reminded me of since he was in high school is Kevin Garnett, so I think he is. Yeah, I can see that. A creative standpoint, from a skill standpoint, from an intensity standpoint, that's who he is. And I think he's got a chance to be that kind of player, which obviously is.

an incredibly high-level player. It's all the more reason why it's insane. He wound up on the team he wound up on after everything that happened last year. But, yeah, I mean, he's, you know, between the playmaking and the versatility at both ends and the defensive intensity and the ability to guard all these positions. Like, that's been the guy that he's reminded me off from the jump. And I, yeah, he's going to be awfully fun. And, you know, I was talking to AD a little bit today. and he was talking about just how much more polished and advanced Cooper is than most rookies than normal rookies,

which is really remarkable given just how young he is. I tell you, this kid, he is a, I mean, he is still a baby face kid, and it's a trip. This is the first dude I've covered who's younger than my older daughter. So now I'm covering kids younger than my own. Like, God, I'm old. J. Kidd was the last guy that I covered. who was older than me. But like, this, this is officially like, damn it, I'm old.

Yeah, I was talking to one of the Sixers players yesterday. And, or no, Jalen Brunson. Yeah. And Jalen Brunson was talking about how he was born in 1996. I was graduating high school in 1996. Bro, I graduated at high school a year before that. I remember feeling old when there were guys who were, who were coming in the league, who were born after a graduate high school, shoot,

now a lot of those dudes have had nice careers and retired. Yeah, well, Bont Tems has a newborn, so he's looking at us like, what are you guys talking about? That's true. All right, well, thank you very much to Jackson for fighting off jet lag, for letting us get this in. Have some more to talk about the next couple of days after I see a couple of games here. And looking forward to my meeting with some officials today here in Abu Dignitaries, right? Dignitaries, yes. I don't know exactly what that means, but I know it means they're important.

People with high titles. Big Bodfather. Yeah, yeah, right. So very much looking forward to that. We'll have some more to talk about with that. And then we'll see some more games start tonight. It's shocking to me, but the games start tonight. So we'll actually see some action.

At the time you hear this, there will have been preseason games playing. Very exciting. All right. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to Bontems. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to The Hoop Collectmen. We'll talk to you next week.

Adios amigos.