Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Denver A Threat To Boston? Cavs Are For Real

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to talk the big matchup between Nuggets & Celtics, why Denver is not as much of threat to Boston this year, the Cavs’ huge win over the Celtics, the impact of Jalen Suggs’ injury on the Magic, Ant Edwards’ technical foul suspension and award ‘Cojones Factor Player of the Month’ for February. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday afternoon slash evening, I guess, joining us from Boston, Massachusetts at the TD Garden,

where he watched the Celtics beat the Nuggets today by seven points. And watch the Cavs win there on Friday nights. Tim Buntips. Hello, everybody. A couple of my high school teammates were here today. It was great to see him. Rooselot brothers, Dave and Chris. What team were you on?

My high school, Randolph High School. Teammates. Their dad's 70th birthday present. They all came to see the game, which was great. Watch the game from start to finish. As one would do when they come to the game. The Denizant of Cavs Corner, who Fairweatherist of Fairweather fans showed up in the fourth quarter for Big Green on Friday.

That's exactly what happened. Joining us from Phoenix, Arizona. I have receipts. Receipts. He's there going to go to the Sun's Wolves game, which is not taking place yet. The return of Aunt Edwards from his suspension is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners, bond Tims. Did you get those teammates?

some water just like old times. What about a towel? That's right. Me and Chris were co-captains on a very good team or senior year. Defined very good. Just like Skip Bayless's high school set. We were 20 and 20 and that was a low blow. We were 20 and three.

Oh. Lost in the section final and both made the all, remember which team it is, all area team. All farm boy team. I've never heard about your high school basketball exploits. This is the first time I've even heard of it. Well, let me just say, I've seen his current basketball exploits in high school was either a long time ago or the competition won't realize.

It's definitely a long time ago, though I played better than McMahon the last time we played. Oh, that is false. I want MVP, baby. Self-appointed. Self-appointed. Just like the self-appointed watcher of the game on Friday. I was a pretty good high school basketball player in my area, I would say. His area is known for like milking cows.

Listen, I didn't try to, I am not trying to say that I was like all world, but I was a good player and we had a really good team. So I mean, his area is utterly ridiculous. Yeah, we had a, we had a bunch of big tall farm kids. And then my buddy who was here was our shooter. He was the one person who was allowed to shoot threes on the team. Well, my senior year. My high school team went three and 17.

I know. We met the star of that team. during the live show at old St. Vincent's St. Mary's. And a few years later, they won the mythical national championship. What happened in the time between? How did they get so good so quickly? Much better recruiting. You want the honest answer? Much better recruiting. A guy got in there and said, let's see if we can go down and recruit some guys like who we don't have to, they don't have to go to pay to go to high school here. Let's start with this kid, James LeBron. Number 32. Not a bad plan. Maybe I've maybe talked about this on the pod before, but I never was

I was made so aware of the changes in the sport when I went back like a few years ago to watch a game. It was like 15 years after I graduated or so. And like I said, when I was on the team, there was one kid who was allowed to shoot threes and anybody else is basically not allowed to shoot outside the paint. And the offense of my coach who's still there now runs, going to the Hall of Fame this month in the area, is like the Dantone, four guys out, two guys run to the corners, pick and rolls at the top of the key, everybody shoots threes.

The game I went to, they got three shot clock violations for not shooting mid-range jumpers going back to try to shoot threes. It's just like it was crazy to see that compared to when I was in school and like how much, even at that level, things have totally shifted towards a three-point line. Anyway, they don't have to shoot threes in Boston. I sure do. Although I got to tell you something about this Nuggets game today, the Nuggets attempted more three-pointers.

I should have looked this up before I meant to look about this. The Nuggets attempted more three-pointers in the Celtics. That's a stunning development, considering the Nuggets as a three-point shooting team and the Celtics as a three-point shooting team. Now, granted, the Celtics were missing a couple of guys, but is that just a one-off anomaly, Bon Temps? Like, it didn't really, three-point shooting didn't really define the game, but. Ah, yeah, did. Yeah, I did. I think who were shooting those threes in part to find the game.

Well, it wasn't like the Celtics shot, you know, 86% or 18% and it wasn't like the Nuggets shot the same. Well, to your point, just for just for the listeners at home. So most everybody knows that Boston shoots a lot of threes and Denver doesn't. So the Celtics lead the league with 48 three-point attempts per game. Denver is dead last with 31. And in this game, the Celtics shot 34 and Denver essentially shot 34. They shot a 35th one at the buzzer to go up by, to have one extra one. But they essentially shot the same number in the game, which I certainly wasn't

not anticipating when the game started. to McMahon's point, 16 of those threes were attempted by Russell Westbrook and Christian Brown, who each went two for eight. And then look, first of all, Russ and Brown aren't going to start together often. It's been either or, and it was Russ for a little bit. It was Brown to start, and there was Russ for a little bit, and then they went back to Brown recently. Aaron Gordon was out today, so they're both in the starting lineup.

Aaron Gordon's actually having a very good three-point shooting season, although he's still a guy that teams are willing to live with. But not only were the Celtics willing to live with Brown and Russ shooting threes, but that's what they were hoping to happen. That's what they were kind of

scheming defensively to happen. And, you know, you'd much rather those guys combining to take 16 threes, which is one more shot than Joker had overall, than you know, living with Joker going one-on-one against your

backup big man. Well, and the one thing I will say, too, is we had that debate not too long ago about whether they should keep Russ in the starting lineup. They should go with Christian Brown going forward. Russ getting hurt, got Christian Brown back on the starting lineup. All I'm going to say about today's game, yes, Christian Brown went two for eight for three. He also had 24 points and played very well. Most important stat, though, was he played over 46 minutes in the game, which I'm not saying that as a commentary on minutes for him playing that many. I would say it's a recognition from Michael Malone that going forward, if there were any questions about whether he's going to lose that starting spot again, I don't think that's going to be in the cards.

And he's going to be starting one way or the other going forward. I didn't realize that until you just mentioned it. He rested for a total of 72 seconds a day. 72 seconds he wasn't on the floor. And by the way, another somboard double, as they call up for Joker, where he ends up in this case, one assist shy of a triple double. He also mightn't have needed some stitches because. he had no free throws in this game. I don't know. I didn't see whether Malone talked about it afterwards.

Well, Malone, Malone made a comment. I asked Malone about the two guys shooting in the corners. And he made a comment about how in the first month or two of the season, they were top five in free throw attempt rate. And it's gone down to the bottom of the league since then. But he didn't do it in any kind of combative way, nor was he seemingly was just like making the point because I even followed up to say like, hey, do you have any? idea why that's the case? And he wasn't like, we need to get more fouls called. He basically said

we just have to be more aggressive in trying to attack the paint. So I didn't even realize that had been the case. I thought it was interesting. But it didn't, unless I missed what his argument was, he wasn't really trying to make a, we're not getting fouled enough argument. So Yokic took no free throws in this game. Friday night in Denver, I'm sorry, in Dahl, in Detroit, where the Nuggets had a pretty nice win, actually. They beat the Pistons and won eight in a row. The Nuggets were on the second night of a back to back. The Nuggets, and I've asked some people in Denver if they can explain this. And other than saying, well, it's nice to have Yokic and Murray, the nuggets are 11 and one

on the second nights of back-to-backs this year, which considering how thin they are, that's an incredible stat. Yeah, I can't even really explain it other than they're good. And I'd have to go look and see if somebody those are at home where, you know, they have some advantage, a little bit of play at home. Either way, it just helps. It helps that the big guy is always available. I was going to say, I'd be curious to see Joker stats.

And Joker, while he doesn't look like a marathon runner or anything like that, is incredibly durable. I mean, as he told you today, Bon Tim, he's always limping. This was actually a funny thing. So he landed funny. It was a weird jump ball and he landed funny. And he was pretty clearly limping in the first quarter. I even went and asked the Nuggets play-by-play team, Katie Wingy and Chris Marlow and Scott Hastings, were not doing the game today.

So they were sitting behind me. And I said, look, I know this guy like sort of shuffles around all the time. he is limping, right? And I said, yeah. Well, he definitely looked like he was favoring it. So Bennett Durando, the beatwriter for the Denver Post, tried to get some sort of acknowledgement of what happened after the game. And when he said, you look like you were limping more often than normal today or something like that, yoga said, yeah, I've been limping for 14 years, which was a pretty good one. My point is he always looks like, as you said, Wendy, he's lumbering. But the guy can play heavy minutes and is incredibly durable. And I would

bet you that his production in that 11-1 back-to-back record is pretty, pretty impressed. Well, his production every game is pretty good. He only had 20 points today only. Anyway, so on Friday, they're playing in Detroit and Malone was not, was trying to set the tone. He got a technical after two Nuggets possessions, angry that Yokish didn't get foul calls. Two. Inside one minute. I think Popovich holds the record for the fastest tech. I think this got to be second. It was less than one minute into the game. That's a tech by a coach or a player? I got coach.

I mean, there was some times where Rashid Wallace got text coming out of the pregame. I saw a goal bear once get one like seconds into the game. You got a foul on the opening tip. You got a foul in the first possession. Then he slammed the water bottle off the scores table when he checked out. But anyways. Anyway, Yok at you at one point today got his arm. He always has scabs on his arms because he's forever getting cut on his arms

just because of the nature of the way he plays. like he's always swinging him around and people always poking at the ball. But he had like a nasty cut today where there's blood like pouring down his arm and you know, that will now be the, in a game where he had no free throw. It's not saying that he got hit on a shot. I'm just saying that he gives the Nuggets

ammunition to talk about how he doesn't get enough fouls. But the Cavs had as many three-pointers as Boston on Friday. You know, I didn't sort of notice that until I saw today's number. Could be just be an anomaly, bontems. I mean, Porzingis has been out, the last couple games and Drew Holiday's been out. So I don't know.

I'm just, I'm not saying it means anything. I'm just remarking on it. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. But in both games, the Celtics got up huge early on. And in the Cavs game, they blew it. In this game, they allowed Denver to get back into it a little bit. But it still supports as good as the Cavs were in their comeback on Friday. And Donovan Mitchell with one of his best games of the season, if not the best game of the season.

He had 41. He was awesome. You know, just huge carrying the calves back. And then Evan Mowgli had a big fourth quarter. I have a hard time, you know, seeing as Boston was up big in both games, you know, like. Well, and they're missing, poor things, and they're missing Jew holiday. Right. I have a hard time walking away from this weekend, which is, you know, a good test weekend for Boston with the two big home games.

I have a hard time walking away from this changing my opinion, even though the Cavs got that win on Friday that the Celtics remain the favorites. Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing they did a week ago today. They had a 1 o'clock ABC game against the Dix. They did the exact same thing. They were up by 20 some in the first half. And then the game was down to four at the end of the third quarter. And they went on to win that game too. But I mean, this is what the Celtics do, right?

The Celtics do this all the time. They play around in games. And when they're locked in and engaged, they look incredible. And then they'll turn off for a while and let teams back into it. And the Cavs got away with it and were able to come back and win. Friday, but yeah, I mean, the Celtics still clearly are the best team in the East. I think, you know, maybe, you know, I certainly pick them to beat the Cavs. I'd probably pick him to beat both the Thunder and the Nuggets. I think both those teams could beat them in a series.

But yeah, you know, coming out of that Cavs game, that was a fantastic win for the Cavs. Donovan was unbelievable in the game. Darius Garland, he only went nine for 23, but showed me a lot in the game still. A couple big ones late. Yeah, it's a big one's late. He was aggressive the whole time. You know, really, it's true. It might be a certain, it's the end of the month, Brian.

So we know what's coming later in the pub. Yes. Also, first off, it's right at the end of the Cavs are in the trailblazers are locked in a very tight game in the last two minutes. And Garland's been horrible today. But I should point out that one of us three has a story coming out on Garland, and it's not me or you, Bontemps. Oh, it would have already.

When I said, I didn't agree it. It ran on Friday. As part of, it's not paying attention to the tabs on Friday. I also didn't read the story on Friday. Listen, I'll say this. Wendy was on one of these runs or he was on Get Up through NBA countdown. So I don't blame him for not doing a whole lot of. Yeah, Bontems was angry at me that I wasn't able to watch a game while I was flying on an airline that doesn't have streaming Wi-Fi.

All I got to say, there's an airline that doesn't have Wi-Fi? No, not streaming. All I got to say. It doesn't work. Streaming doesn't work. I was one to say people at home. There was a lot of commentary about the Akron, Kent State game, right up until about the nine-minute mark of the fourth quarter.

Then he came flying in with all sorts of analysis on the Cavs. Leave Wendy alone. Leave the Cavs Corner. It's all good. It was a huge night for Cavs Corner. I was flying during the first half, during the third half, or during the third quarter, I was unavailable. And the fourth quarter I watched, what do you want me to say?

Listen, let's get back to talking Cavs, Celtics. here. I will say at the five-minute mark of the game, the Celtics call time out. They're up 25 to three. Or the Cavs call time out. Celtics are up 25 to three. The place is exploding. I turned to Sam Coombs, the PR guy for the Cavs, who was sitting next to me. And I said, I don't know if you're going to win the game, but you're going to be back in the game pretty soon because I've seen this before. And they were back. I'm not, listen. Old Nostra dumbass here. No, hey, listen, I'm just saying this is what the Celtics do. The Celtics player around. We've talked about this now for years. This has been a years-long thing where the Celtics

look better than every team in the league for stretches of games, and then they get into isolation heavy offense, and they get out of sync, and they mess around, and then all of a sudden it's a game again. I mean, you know it is, that is classic vintage USWB analysis where he managed to insults both teams at once. It's got nothing to do with insulting the calves. This is what the Celtics do all the time. Well, I guess, I guess, well, here's the point. So, like, what am I supposed to take out of a team that gets way ahead and then loses focus? Is that, is that a sign of a team that's bored or a sign of a team that's flawed? So, I mean, I don't have an answer for that. I think it's probably more bored than flawed. Also, like, no poor Zingas, no holiday. I mean,

these are two of their top six players, arguably top, I mean, we could debate four or five, whatever, two of their key guys. But, like, hey, We all watched the Celtics cruise to a championship last year. Like nobody challenged Boston during a playoff run when, by the way, Porzingis missed the vast majority of the run. Now, he had that game one moment in the finals and, you know, I'm not saying he didn't contribute, but my point is they were without him. Most of that running still weren't ever challenged. The Cavaliers have proven that they are going to be a legitimate challenger. And this was a huge win.

Wendy, we kind of argued last week about how big this game was for the Cavs. Bond Timson and I both agreed just for a, you know, a feeling standpoint, a confident standpoint. Like, we are real type of standpoint, especially after they got down 25 to 3. If they'd have gotten just rolled. And those two guys were out. Yeah, if they had gotten rolled. I understand. They rallied.

They came back. But of course, Boston's the favorites, despite the fact that the Cavalier is going to win like 67, 68 games. This goes to your question, Brian. I would say the answer is, if you say, is it a flawed team or a board team? We've been having the same discussion about the Celtics going back to at least the 2022 run where they got to the finals. And the way they play and the amount of three-pointers they shoot, they're going to be a team that's going to experience swings back and forth in games. They're also, if you look at their home and road record, the road record of the playoffs has been incredible. I think because they are.

The road record this season is incredible. They're the number one road team in the NBA. Because when they go on the road, I think they're more focused and disciplined and stay committed to the way they need to play. And when they play at home, their attention at times tends to drift, especially when they get these leads and they let teams back in. So I think it's a sign that at their peak, the Celtics, I think, are the best team in the league. But their peaks come in brief flashes where they go way up and then they come back down. And there's not a consistency that allows them to stay at that high level. and we'll see if that is something that's going to be a problem in the playoffs.

But I guarantee you we're going to be talking about this in the spring where they're playing in high-level playoff games and they're out to big leads. And they blow it again. And we're going to be sitting here going, how did the Celtics do this again? It's probably going to happen more than once. Yes. Well, that was sort of the thing last year. They were so much better than everybody that their, that their tendency to, you know,

be their own worst enemy just wasn't as applicable. It just wasn't as applicable. And they're not so much better than the Cavaliers. I think if you're a Cavs fan, what you're yelling at Bontemps about right now, I'll just do it for you. DeAndre Hunter did have an impact in that game, including getting a block shot on Jason Tatum

in the last 30 seconds or so where his size and length made a huge difference. If that was Carousavert guarding him, not that that's who would have been, or Isaac O'Coro probably doesn't get that block. Donovan Mitchell has dominant, the Celtics defense this year. No matter what anybody wants to say,

no matter how you want to qualify it, he has obliterated them all four times they've played. He's averaged, it was like, I'm trying to remember the stat, the number of guys who have averaged over 30 points in the regular season. There's two. Donovan Mitchell and Michael Jordan.

Michael Jordan. Oh, okay. So, you know, you're looking at that. And that number went up on Friday. It was before Friday's game when he had 41. And while Tatum was awesome, what was Tatum's final number, 40? I believe he had 46, 16 and 9 in the game.

But his second half, when they turned the screws a little bit, they were able to, I think he was, seven of 18 in the second half or something like that. The calves played their normal rotation because they had all of their guys healthy for a rare time this year. And Joe Missoula went for the game. He played essentially seven guys. Peyton Pritchard was minus 33. Luke Cornette was minus 24. They were horrendous.

the bench got outscored 33 to 6. And I think the Celtic starters, in particular Jason Tatum and Jaylon Brown, got a little tired as the game went on, in part because they were playing a lot more minutes than the Cavs. Tatum also got tired because he got up 37 shots. I mean, that in and of itself is impressive. Yeah. I mean, it was very slanted towards him and Jalen doing most of the, most of the shooting in the game, which is not the way they typically want to play either. But Donovan Mitchell put in so much work he needed a rest day today. But, you know, Wendy, you talked about the gears of Donovan Mitchell, the different gears he can get to. And this is one where it was like, hey, they needed the very best of Donovan Mitchell.

And he responded to that challenge. And look, Donovan in his career has not had a breakthrough deep playoff run, but he is absolutely dominated playoff series. He has multiple 50-point games. in the playoffs. He is 100% capable taking over a playoff series. Well, and the most interesting thing about that game was what the Caz did down the stretch, which was they had DeAndre Hunter in the game, like you said, Brian, and they didn't have Jared Allen in the game. And he was rooted to the bench down the stretch. They were playing Evan Mobley at the five. And the addition, like you said, of Hunter, his defense is a little

overrated. He's not, you know, he's a bigger wing. He's not a guy who you could throw out there and expect to slow down, you know, those elite players for the Cavs, but, or for the Celtics, I should say. But he does give them another big wing who can play the four when you go small and it gives them more ability to go with just one of the bigs and presumably that's going to be Evan Mobley at the five. And that was obviously a very interesting wrinkle to see them go to down the stretch of that game and certainly help play a part and them coming back and winning that game. Yeah. So I would, I would just say this. If the Celtics get to a position where they have to win a game in Boston,

which could happen against the Cavs, Cleveland will enter that type of game with confidence because they believe they might be able to have the best player in the game, whether or not that ends up being actually true or not, but I think that's one of the takeaways you can... Donovan Mitchell is good enough to win you a playoff game at home or on the road. Right. Against just about any team, any team, not just about any team.

By the way, McMahon, Darius Garland, Mr. Free Throw it with a few seconds left that contributed, contributed the game going to overtime. I'm watching. I thought I just rewind. Always about cast corner here on the pod. Always. I thought it was an hand in a live update. Let's give me a live update. Giving you a live update at this point, probably 24 hours after the time.

That's true. All right. So, Bontems, today the nuggets fell behind by 12 points in the first quarter. Boston with a typical game. This was what I thought was going to be the finals last year. Boston was the only team in the league, the only team in the league that Boston didn't beat last year was Denver. I don't think they would have beat Denver in the finals either.

I would just know that we would have had a better finals. No offense to the Maverick. They were the team. They were the team I expected to be there the whole time. And so I'm not sure what I learned from today. But again, last year Denver went into Boston and won, and today they didn't. And this very well could be a finals matchup this year.

Denver had been red hot, and now I think they've lost three out of four going on. They were two or two this week on their trip. Okay. So they've won. Yeah, they lost in Milwaukee, lost in Boston, you know, one in Detroit, which I deem a good win. So I don't know what you take away from today. I think we have a pretty good feel that, you know, if it was Cavs Celtics, I'd pick

the Celtics, but I would probably think you would pick anybody. Yeah, that's true. The other day when, the other day, I was doing first take with Stephen A. Smith and Gilbert Arenas, and Stephen A has decided the calves are, he's big on in the Cavs Corner. He's got a big. We know why. We know why that is. He ain't picking a Boston team and his team ain't beat in Boston.

So he's got to find somewhere to go. It's a little bit of subversion because he's really sort of jabbing the Knicks because he believes Don of Mitchell would have been, of course, the man in, in New York, even though they did fine with Jalen Brunson, but. Yes, they've been okay there. Anyway, he goes on this, he goes on this long, you know, adulation and phrases the calves up and down, Donovan Mitchell. And he's like, I, you know, he's like, I think they could beat the Celtics. And, uh, and Gilbert just goes four to. He just, he just totally dismissing goes four to. And so anyway, I looking at today's game, you know, I don't feel as strongly about Denver.

or against Boston as they did last year. Well, look, Aaron Gordon not playing is a very significant thing today. It's the end of a week-long road trip. They were clearly pretty tired. You know, they played Thursday and Friday, you know, and then they play Sunday afternoon. But I will say, to me, the only thing that matters with Denver right now is that Jamal Murray is back. And I don't know what happened from, I mean, I know he had the calf injury in the spring.

I don't know if that lingered through the summer. I don't know if he was dealing with something else. He then struggled to start of the year. I don't know what happened. But since December 1st, the guy's averaging coming into today, 22 and a half a game on 49% shooting and 43.5 from 3 and 6 assists a game. That's the Jamal Murray. That was the co-star with Nicole Yokic in the 2023 run of the title.

And if that Jamal Murray sticks around through the end of the playoffs this year, Denver is going to be able to hang with anybody if the rest of their guys are ready to go. And that one-two punch with him and Yokic is going to be a bear to deal with for Oklahoma City or Boston or, you know, any other team, they got to play. And he was great in the second half today. It was a big part of them coming back in the game. But that's really the whole takeaway with them. If those two guys are cooking, then, you know, yeah, Christian Brown and Russ have to

hit some threes. And, you know, Aaron Gordon, he's had some injuries throughout the year. We'll see if he could say healthy. But, like, if their team is healthy and those two guys are good, I don't want to play Denver to play out series. I mean, I'll tell you what happened when Jamal Murray is he played his way into shape. You know, he showed up to camp in early in the season, you know, talking to their people. he was a little bit puffy.

The body fat percentage was higher than they wanted to be all those kind of things. He played his way in the shape. And he's been the guy since then that we've seen for most of his time with the Nuggets when he's been healthy. You know, obviously rough playoffs last year, rough Olympics. I certainly questioned the max deal. Whatever. Ownership wanted it done. It got done.

And right now he's, you know, they're. There's no beef with it because he's playing at that championship caliber co-star level. You know, never been an All-Star, but he's been a champion. And he was, he was, you know, he's been a playoff superstar. That's for sure. I'll put it this way. There were two late summer maximum extensions done from guys who play in the Olympics. One was Jamal Murray.

One was Joelle and B. I'll take the Murray one. Yeah. So it's one to frame it like that. Indeed, who out for the year, which is not a surprise, nothing really to say. there, but. Right. We've, we've covered it. Yeah. All right. Well, if it's Denver, Boston, and the finals, and Denver's got their full complement of players, you know. Yokic has always destroyed the Celtics. There comes Wendy, just disrespecting the thunder again.

I didn't disrespect the thunder. You know, the thunder are my favorite to win the West. So, no, you just said Denver versus Boston in the finals and Bricktown. I said, if. No, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, bricktown is just a little speck on the map, not worth your time. Okay. No free drinks for you at the goat. Yeah, well, that's fine. All right, so we had some unfortunate injury news on Sunday. Jalen Suggs, I don't know if the team announcer, I know Shams reported it.

I don't know who to give credit for. I'll just give credit to Shams. I'm not trying to somebody else. Shams's part it first and then the team announced it. Okay. Yeah. Jalen Sugs needs to have arthroscopic knee surgery, which is a huge bummer. The magic have been arguably the most disappointing team of the second half.

I mean, obviously the Sons and the Sixers have been extremely disappointing, but I would argue that's been the whole season long. When Jalen Suggs got injured in the first week of January, the magic were 20 and 15. They are now 29 and 32. Five games over with them, eight games under without them. Now, they play the next two games against the Raptors, so I don't know, that may, including tonight, so I don't know what's going to happen now. But still, we've seen the impact of Jalen Suss.

the last couple months and him not being there, the impact it's had on this team. And frankly, like, the impact it's had on Palo get Bencaro because he has been bad since he came back from this oblique injury. Well, he had a 40 point game earlier this week. Yeah, but he's been a row. And look, Paulo to ask a 6 foot 10, 250 pound young developing star to be a primary facilitator, a primary initiator, it's a lot. It's a lot.

And just to put that 2015 in perspective, remember, Paulo missed most of those games. Franz missed a bunch of those games. I'm not saying Suggs is their best player or even their most important player, but we are seeing just how much he matters to the magic. And he matters, you know, offensively, he's become like a, he's become a, he's a three and D guy who can initiate the offense. And then defensively, he's on the very short list of the best. you know, on ball defenders in the league.

Yeah, depending, I mean, he can definitely guard one, two, or three. I'd see, there's certain circumstances where you'd say, all right, let him guard a four. But he's so strong that he can guard bigger than his size. Yeah. So that's why it's a big factor. I, again. Could you imagine being a high school team playing against Suggs and Holmgren in Minnesota? Like, did anybody ever score on that team?

I don't know, but I know that Gonzaga benefited greatly from Suggs going there because Holmgren went there because Suggs went there. Right. So, and Suggs had that, didn't he have that one magical NCAA tournament game? Yeah, they got to the, well, they got to the national championship game after he hit the shot against UCLA to win the game, the buzzer. And yeah, Paolo, I mean, since since he came back from injury in 22 games, shooting 41% overall, shooting 29% from three, shooting 69% from the line and seven attempts

a game. Not nice. When he's on the court, I mean, they're getting outscored heavily. And, you know, there are several points better when he's not on the court. I'm not saying they're better off. And they're getting outscored by almost 10 points per 100 possessions over the last two months with him on the court. And their offensive rating is 100.9, which is abysmal.

So, you know, I mean, look, obviously Powell is a great player and he's got a bright future, but, you know, we've talked a lot about Jalen, Jalen Green's efficiency. And like, those are like Jalen Green efficiency or worse numbers when Jalen Green has been bad. So, I mean, that's a pretty concerning stretch for a guy that's supposed to be, you know, the anchor of this team going forward offensively. Well, they're 28th in offense as a team. And it's very hard to overcome that. I mean, if you look at the teams that are down there with them, as far as the worst offenses,

this is the teams around them. Washington, Charlotte, Brooklyn, Toronto, New Orleans, Portland, Philadelphia, Utah, Atlanta. I don't see a winning team yet. Clippers are the only, the first winning team. If you're in the bottom 10 on offense, you're a losing team. And bottom three, you're in the Cooper Flaggnerby, except for the magic. Which, again, is why I will say, I remain.

a little bit mystified that the magic wouldn't try to get some help at the trade deadline. I'm not saying they had to trade for Brandon Ingram and give them $120 million contract. They have all these expiring contracts. They have all these draft picks. I remain surprised that they didn't try to at least get some help for their offense. No, just get somebody who could put the ball in the basket so you're not 28th, regardless of Sugg's health. Yeah.

I mean, it's not even certain they're going to make the playoffs. Well, if they make the playoffs, if you're 28th in offense, how can you, How can you win four out of seven in a... Might see Magic Cavs part due in the first round. I don't think it'll go seven. Yeah, I don't think it'll go seven. I don't think... God, that serious last year was...

Not with the number one offense in the league going against them. That was the last year was ugly. Sure was. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Anthony Simon just hit a three to put the blazers up. Oh, you just wait a couple seconds every night. Just wait a couple seconds, buddy. The new hero of Cleveland.

The guy, the guy who, I got my cat's corner color blazer on today. The guy who's about to be added to that big old sign on the Sherwin Williams building just responded. DeAndre Hunter just hit a three. You're a little ahead of me, McMahon. I know the future 24 hours after it happens. Well, that was a potentially big three that DeAndre Hunter just hit, you know, giving him an early nod in the Cajonace factor standings for March. What about the Cajonace factor?

Oh, we want to do this now? Or do we not want to have any discussion on Ant, fresh off the suspension? I just got to give him credit because nobody covers technical fouls like Tim McMahon. And now that Luca's gone and away from Dallas, we now got McBan bombing in to give updates on Anthony Edwards' technical foul track. And I'm just glad to know your technical foul expertise is not going anywhere. Luca got a tee like three minutes into the game against the Mavericks. And I didn't have so much of a tweet on it. But yes, Anthony Edwards got.

Also, you did not get any passive aggressive statements from the Mavericks to ask for a pool report that night. Cuban was there wearing his Luca One's court side, though. By the way, some strong Jordan brand performance with the advertising stuff. But, no, yeah, when Ant goes into the game with 14 technical fouls, gets just a silly tee at the end of the first quarter, or him and Jared Vanderbilt are like trading shoves as they're walking to the bench. It's like, okay, there's 15. And then honestly, 16, I did some research, Brent Barnicky,

played ball at Flagler College, was listed at 6 foot 1. I'm going to guess that was with shoes on. Oh, my God. Can we actually talk about Ant? Can we just, No, I skip this, it was a sub,

it was a sub six foot T. Ant got, and got fouled. I'm sure he let out a, you know, some vary, probably a MF or something along those lines.

You know what, though? I was going to say. All right, fine. Let's just agree that the 16th T without, without speaking on the referee.

But it didn't get rescinded. It didn't get rescinded. And, and I'll say this, Finch didn't, Finch didn't complain about it. He complained about the no call. He didn't complain about the T.

And by the way, this guy walks off the court, throws the ball in the stands, gets himself fined. More Sprite money gone. He's about to start dipping into the Adidas money. I mean, he has, he has had multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars of fines this year. Fines. Yeah. Like that is crazy. Buddy, it went over $300,000. He got fined $35,000 for throwing the ball in the stands. He was at $285. So that goes over $300,000 in fines. Then, His game check was 300,000 or something like that.

Whatever it is, he's over half a million. But look, let's just agree that the 16th tech was soft. Let's just agree with that. What about the other 15? And he did have one rescinded. I think this is a Stats William special. If not, it's from our ESPN research group. The last guy to have 16 T's before March was Boogie Cousins in 2016-17,

him when Boogie was like in his heyday of being a royal pain of the butt for rest. And, you know, the thing, like Chris Finch, I don't know if you guys have the quote from Utah pregame from Finchie, but basically he said, like, Ant's got to get this under control, but he then wanted to be unfairly labeled. Like, Ann is not, his point was Anne's not like an angry guy. He's not one of these guys who's just berating referees from the get-go. And, like, we've all been around. Everybody who's been around aunt typically enjoys the experience. But for whatever reason, and I think a lot of it is because he's been so frustrated with just the season as a whole coming off last year's Western Conference finals trip. And has, as Finch calls him, these outbursts.

And it's 16 now. And it's, and it costs them a game that, like, dude, you're fighting for. playing position maybe to get out of the plan. Right now, you're tied for ninth. You have the tiebreaker on the Mavericks, but you're ninth in the West because you just lost a game against the tanking Utah Jazz. Well, it's worse than that, buddy.

They lost that game on Thursday close. It was a five-point game with three or four minutes left. Gobert and Julius Rangler out. He Vincenzo was going to be out the second night of a back-to-back. So I don't know. He severely damaged their chance to win Thursday, because if he's in the game, who knows. Then Friday they lose because they're missing basically their whole starting lineup, and he's suspended.

And they're in nice play. And that's just a game. You can't lose in Utah right now in the position that you're in. And here's the thing. Now, going forward, they have 21 games left in the season. Every other technical foul is another game suspended. I'm looking to the future. Just to be clear so people understand that.

It's not literally everyone. So like 17 is okay. And then 18. Right. I was just saying, 18, 20, etc. Tonight I can see Ant getting his 17th tech and somebody in the Wolves designation asking for a pool report from McMahon. When it comes to this level of techs, you ain't got to ask. I'm asking for a pool report.

I'm sorry. Look, just like with Luca, when you start getting, when a superstar starts getting toward that suspension territory, every tech is a story. It just is what it is. It's the Jordan is the Jordan of tech reporting. He loves to talk to the refs, so he wants the pool reports. It was a Gucci Main was the crew chief, and certainly, certainly Gucci Main, you know, he needed help to get to those pedals on that Jazzmobile. That's a deep cut.

He's also first, I believe, in the league in Texas over the last five years. Owen Phillips, who does a very good substack, went and broke down all the referee stats over the last few years. What's that? Barnakey, not only threw him out, he gave him the, he gave him the heave ho. Yes. Oh, you know. By the way, let me just say something. I have 11 and three quarters in socks.

Enough, enough. Hold on. I'm getting control. I'm getting control. Okay. I'm trying to make an ant point. Tech on Montezerb is the crew chief tonight, McMahon. Ooh.

Do not meth with Zach Zarba. No, listen. Good hair. Good hair. I know that's why you like that. Zach Zarba and I have a windy like quaff. Zach Zarbba and I both came in the league in the same year. We have a kinship from that.

Do not mess with Zach Zarba. I, I, I chit-chat out with. was Zarb and some other refs before game two of the West finals last year in a hotel lobby just ran into him. All right, go ahead, Bontent. He introduced himself and I said, hey, you're good with me. You're over six feet tall. Enough, enough rough talking, McBandt. Who puts you in charge? We know the rest. We know the rest like it to listen to our pod. You're a distant third like the bulls in a three-way trade. Okay. No argument there on that. Look, we are a very pro-ant pod. We have been a very pro-ant pod for a while.

However, the immaturity he has to show throughout the year has not been good. And it's been a part of the frustrations there. I mean, remember go back to early in the air when he was talking about, you know, I got to make sure I get my points in games. I'm not here to pass the ball. I remember the exact quote, but it was not exactly the thing you want to be hearing. He said getting doubled and passing out of any fun. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Exactly. Yeah. So like, you know, look, he is a phenomenal player. He's super fun. As you said, being around him is fun. He's a great quote. He's fun to watch. all of it. But for this Minnesota team to get where it needs to go, he's got to get it under control on a

variety of fronts, including these technical fouls. Because like you can't, you just can't be getting like you said, Brian, it was before February was over. And we're talking about him getting suspended from games. McMan is usually with Luca the past couple of years. He'd be like at 15 on April 5th. They'd be like, oh, is he going to miss a game? Well, Luke would also miss 10 or 12 games and Ant plays almost every night. That's fair. But my aunt has LeBron-like ankles where he will roll his ankle. You're like, oh, my God, he might be out a week and he's back 30 seconds later.

They need him to be out there playing for them under control and fully involved. Let me take it a step further. All this discussion about Ant being the future or current or whatever face of the NBA, it's all cool. He's got to do better as a little. leader for his own team. That's true. That's right. Although I will say talking to aunt, like the man's obviously got a colorful vocabulary that's costing. I don't care about cursing. I don't care about that. But that gets him a lot of the teas. And quite frankly, I think MEP is a term of endearment to him. Listen, that. The referees need to understand. It's a compliment.

I mean, I know, I know we're doing another ref jag, but that's not the, the point is he's got to be more locked in. He has to be. For them to be the team that they want to be and to get back to where they were last year or get beyond that, like he can't, he can't be this out of control. Agreed.

All right. He'll now have 38 tonight and hit the three, hit the game one of three at the buzzer. And we'll have 37 different explanations of how these choices for Cohen's Factor of the month were handed down. He'll look at, he'll, when he does the post game interview,

he'll like hold his hands like the kids and sound of music and, you know, be very friendly. He may, but I suspect he will not. Yeah. Hey. Oh, man. What do we got? Two things that I know, technical fouls and cahones, all right?

All right. And we'll start off with a shout out. Nick Claxton had that put back buzzer beater against the 76ers. There was three buzzer beaters last month. Then he got suspended. Speaking of guys who got suspended, Nick Claxton is six flagrant fouls this year. You don't look at that guy and think that guy's an enforcer.

I also feel like, I was also stunned by that because I feel like he's missed a ton of games. Like, I don't know how he got. Yeah. As I'm saying, his flagrant foul per game percentage is wild. Honestly, I don't, I don't remember the last time. He spent 52 games. That's more than, that's more than I would have guessed. Well, if we're going to get on, on, and for getting suspended for Tex in February,

we ought to make a mention that Nick Claxton got a flagrant suspension for February. I don't think I've ever remembered that happening. Except for nobody gives the crap about the Brooklyn Nets. Well, nonetheless, that was like... When I saw the email that popped up, it said Nick Claxton suspended, I didn't think it was going to be for flagrant foul. I just wanted to give the man a shout out because he had a buzzer beater. There are three buzzer beaters last month. He didn't get an awardee or just a shout out.

We don't need to get in a whole flagrant foul discussion of a team that nobody watches. My God. Well, they do play in a very big market and he has six flagrant fouls. By the end, by February 25th, he had six flagrants. I just think that's remarkable. Go on. If Cooper flags there next year, we'll all pay close attention. Bontas will be heading over the river.

All right, go on. Oh, yeah. All right. That was the brass one or that was. No, that was just a shout-out. You guys are really prolonging this. Yeah, we're prolonging it. It was a few seconds shout-out, and then we went off talking about well,

and then there was a wind-up and there was, you know, this and that. Just move along. Move along. Do you move along? Don't you have a flight to catch? We can do this about you. It's not like you ever. You never contributed to Cajonis in your entire life.

No, he was 20 and three as a senior. It's true. All right. Brass ball. Brass balls. Bam, out of bio. Start of the month off of the buzzer beater. A little mid-ranger in San Antonio at the time.

I believe he's hit two buzzer-beaters this year. Yeah, at the time I was worried he might be costed me a dinner, but then Wimby didn't hit the minimum-plays games-played requirement. but bam nice little clutch month 22 points 10 rebounds he's just instigating you left and right bontems i mean i the number of comments i got this week absolutely obliterating big band for his running away from the uh oh first of all no nobody you don't have enough friends to make those kind of comments so stop all right and then we're going calves corner i know the man it's march he missed a clutch food though today calves still pulled it out don't worry windy i don't know if if you're caught up

on your little scream man but the calves i don't know if you're hurried but the calves haven't lost in a month McMan. Well, I'll tell you what. A lot of that's because of Darius Garland's clutch performance. Now, the Cavs only had three clutch games last month, right? And only a total of eight clutch minutes. But one of those games, Darius Garland, cool as could be, pulled up on the Pistons logo and hit a 31-foot buzzer beater. It was pretty. A winning in Little Caesars is not to be taken for granted. No, it's not. And a 31-foot buzzer-beater, like, come on now. That's doing something. And then the last clutch game they had, he didn't have a great game against the Celtics, but he had a huge three when things were tight just under five minutes. And then he hit that little step-back long two, a little dagger there in the final minute. So Daris Garland, getting the silver medal. He's getting it for hitting a shot with a minute to go against the Celtics when they were winning. 31 foot buzzer beater, you dork.

Like if you combine, Bond Tim, if you combine the length of every bucket you made in high school, you're not getting 31 feet, all right? At up all like seven of your buckets in high school, you're not getting 31 feet.

I'm just always, I just always enjoyed the explanations. As to some of our friends in the league. By the way, did you see the other night when Steph had 56 in Orlando? I sure did. That he made 390,

51 feet of shots in that game. I'd not see that. That is incredible. And the last, and then they made the last dunk of his career on Saturday. They have, was that the most, like, distance of shots in his career? No. Wow. Well, no, it was most of his career, yes, but it wasn't the most on record. Who?

Lillard had a 400-foot game. A couple of years ago. Me either, but he must have had a bunch of logo shots that night. My logo Lillard. Yeah. That is, that is crazy. 400 feet of shots at a game. I mean, and see, the step one, he made a 50-footer.

Well, Steph threw in a 50-footer, which kind of, you know, padded the stats. I mean, I don't mean to take anything away from. Right. But he had one in there that sort of, you know, you know, ballooned it a little bit. I mean, I got to go back and see this Lillard game. I mean, he must have, I know that Lillard back when he was in Portland. I know he had some hot nights when he had a 70-point game, right? Maybe that was the night.

I got to go back and I just remember seeing that it wasn't the farthest on record. And I, I mean, we've only been able to try. track the distance of shots for so long. A few years, yeah. I don't know if, you know, Bob Pettett had a game we had 420. Gotta get those little Bob Petit reference in there. I don't think old Bullet Bob was straight. I don't think so.

I think so. Okay. All right. All right. The gold medalist for the February Cajonis Factor. It's a good thing that Jatham Brunson had such a great clutch month because, boy, there were some games that weren't exactly clutch down the stretch. let's just say for the Knicks.

But they did go 6 and 0 in games that were within five points. Wow. In the final five minutes, get this. Listen to these numbers. Six and O in those games, Brunson played 37 minutes was plus 30, had 49 points, 54, 63, 88 shooting splits, and 8 assists, had the most clutch assists, including, by the way, Memphis, I think it was the last day of the month, one of the last couple days, just the other day.

Yeah, they won by one. He had a clutch three-pointer. Memphis takes the lead. Then he drives in dishes to OG and Obie for the game winner. So there were six and oh in clutch games. They were three and oh when they were tied or trailed by a one possession margin in the last 30 seconds. And Brunson had seven points on three or four shooting and that assist for the OG game winning three in those situations. He also led him all the way home against Philly last Wednesday. They were in some trouble. They got behind and he scored like the last nine. points of the game. Dude, nut cutting, one possession margin, final three minutes, 35 points plus 34 and 20

minutes on crazy efficiency. Plus 13 and 19. You know, I was just wondering, you know, I think that the first four on the MVP ballot are probably pretty set with the order will see that, you know, not that I would spend that much time who would be fifth. You know, I put Brunson fifth in my last bond time's poll submission. And I was thinking, you know, Friday night, I was like, you know, Donovan Mitchell's got to get some credit. I mean, if this Cavs team wins 67, 68 games, and he's doing this, how does he not get credit? But how do I demote? When I hear these stats, how do I, how do I demote Jaylin? I mean, either one of those guys is a viable, is a viable fifth MVP option for sure. And if Janus has an injury, then they'll probably be fourth and fifth.

I want to throw one other name into that mix, because you mentioned this other day, Wendy, and I was thinking about it. A 40-year-old gentleman by the name of LeBron James is put in Yeah, they're an MVP ballot kind of case as, I don't know, we'll see what happens tonight, but the Lakers could be the two seed in the West by the time this pod comes out. That's true. So LeBron's stats since actually turning 40, hold on, I'll get them for you. I mean, it's... And I'll just add while you're looking these up, you know, J.J. Reck has made it clear.

LeBron is playing at an all-defensive type of level. Yeah, I got them right here. Since December, since January 1st, which is basically it. That's fine. It's the start of the new year. 26.6 points, 8.5 rebounds, 8.2 assists on 54.8% shooting, 43% from 3 on 6 attempts per game. And what's the Lakers record in that span?

Like their record is in the games he's played in 25 games, they are 18 and 7. LeBron is having a hell of a season. Hell of a year, for sure. Certainly putting himself in the mix, no question. The Lakers have a little bit of a challenge here. They're playing the Clippers tonight. We'll see what happens. But we have an injury to Rihachamara and now an injury to Austin Reeves.

Yeah. And look, the Lakers, they've been the number one defense in the league since mid-January. There is certainly some opponent shooting luck slash like they're getting the guys that they want to shoot threes on the opponent on the opposing team shooting them. We'll see how that holds up. However, Luca's scoring numbers and efficiency since he's been in L.A., you know, coming off of the longest injury absence of his career, new team, blah, blah, blah, Luca's not going to be averaging in the teens on mid-30 shooting for much longer. Look, you said this earlier, you know, 10 days ago.

Just go look at Lucas' first 10 games this year coming off that calf injury. He was scoring more points then because the Mavericks needed him. more offensively, but his shooting percentages were crap. Yeah, he was doing the thing where he'd put up 28, 8, and 8 and not play well. Right. Right now, he's actually playing well except for he's having a hard time putting the ball in the hole. Well, by the way, I feel good about him putting the ball in the hole. That's one thing I'm not concerned about.

Yeah, he tends to figure that out as his legs get under him. You don't worry about that part of his game. I went and found the Damien Lillard game was the 71 point game when he had 400 feet worth of shots. Just as a quick aside because it's the I guess 63rd anniversary of the Will Chamberlain game today, the 100 point game. Dame's line in this game. It's 71 points on 22 for 38 shooting, 13 for 22 from 3, and 14 for 14 at the line in 39 minutes. And he had 71 points. So again, like-

part it is to get up 22-3s when you are the focal point of the other team's team. How about 22-3s in 39 minutes? Like to me- I'm saying. Like I just, like obviously everybody talks about like, can another person ever score 100 in a game in the NBA again like Will did? Like you look at this box score. I don't know how anybody's going to score more points than that in a game. Like going 13 for 22 from three is crazy alone,

let alone the rest of it. And he got to the line over 10 times. And he still was 29 points short. By the way, I just saw the Bucks come through Dalles. Look, the Mavericks, you know, still have almost every front court player out. PJ Washington left that game with an ankle injuries. He's going to miss Monday, which is actually a key game against the Kings. But that damn, honest combo, you know, and the Bucks now sit in nine games above 500.

They're, you know, not bad for a team that was 2 and 12, I believe, at one point. Look, the Bucks have their, what, if you're a Bucks fan, What you're saying is, if we can get to four, we'd have home court in the first round and be on the opposite side of the bracket as the Celtics. Not that beating the calves is going to be easy, but you're saying we'd have the best player in the series. They'll take their chances with that. Yes. And they're sitting in four as we speak at the, you know. Right.

I think they've won five of six or something like that. And they've been keeping their head above water since Portis went down. Brooke Lopez has had some good games. His minutes are pretty up there, but he's put up some good games without Portis. Kuzma's been okay. He's kind of been up and die. I know he left the game the other night with an injury.

I don't have an update on that. But yeah, since the All-Star break, the Bucks have been doing some things. So, yeah, we'll see. You know, I think, you know, they have played that they've got one more game left with the Cavs. I think it's coming up. The Cavs are 3-0 against them,

but the games were close, and I think Janus missed at least one of them. you know, Middleton missed, probably all of them, I don't know. But, all right, point taken. All right, beautiful Cajon's Factor there by our Guy McMahon. Jaylen Brunson, put it on the shelf. All right, thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to-

That's our fellow podcast for Jalen Brunson. That's right. We can no longer say that about Podcast P. He's retired. Thank you to all the podcast P listeners who have come over to join us on the pod. Now the podcast P is on hiatus. on hiatus. Thank you to Bon Temps and McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective.

We will talk to you early next week, which, by the way, McMahon, I'm going to New York. Me and Bon Temps are going to, last week I hung out with you in L.A. This week, hanging out with Bon Tems in New York. I'll report back on who was the better date. Oh, I promise you, I'm going to have a lot more fun than Bon Tems. Have fun with the USWB. All right. We'll talk to you guys then. Adios amigos.